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EPISODE 250! The Hunt for Red October · Left of the Projector

• 0:00
  Track 2: I will say, this movie was way better than I remember it.
• 0:03
  Track 1: I didn't really remember much. But why did I think Tom Cruise was in this?
• 0:10
  Track 1: Like, the...
• 0:13
  Track 3: See, I got confused when I was, like, Hunt for Red October. I was like,
• 0:18
  Track 3: oh, I'm pretty sure that's that one with Ben Affleck, right?
• 0:21
  Track 1: It's hard to tell him.
• 0:22
  Track 3: Like... Nope, different Jack Ryan.
• 0:26
  Track 1: Where's Tom Cruise? like fucking like Baldwin shows up and I'm like okay but when does Cruz show up.
• 0:36
  Track 2: I don't.
• 0:39
  Track 3: Think Tom Cruz has ever been Jack Ryan right yeah Tom Cruz has never been Jack Reacher.
• 0:44
  Track 1: Ryan what do you want white guy that does.
• 0:49
  Track 3: Fucking American.
• 0:51
  Track 1: Stuff I don't know.
• 0:54
  Track 2: They wanted kevin costner but he turned it down to do dances with wolves which
• 0:59
  Track 2: i thought was interesting and they picked they picked um they picked what's
• 1:04
  Track 2: his name uh they picked alec baldwin because they decided they wanted someone
• 1:07
  Track 2: who was up and coming instead of a big star probably because they would they
• 1:11
  Track 2: wanted sean connery to be like i thought i thought.
• 1:13
  Track 1: Was good um it was but sean connery it's a russian it's fucking weird.
• 1:18
  Track 3: Yeah alec baldwin wasn't bad but like i remember this vhs growing up in my house
• 1:24
  Track 3: and sean connery's face was way bigger on the cover of the vhs.
• 1:29
  Track 2: Than alec.
• 1:30
  Track 3: Baldwin's for sure.
• 1:31
  Track 2: Uh and the cover doesn't even love it's.
• 1:34
  Track 1: Just sean connery's giant fucking head and then the con tower of the submarine that's it.
• 1:40
  Track 2: You know that the uh that they they carefully crafted his hairpiece to use for
• 1:45
  Track 2: the movie because they didn't want him to be bald it.
• 1:47
  Track 1: Was it was very impressive i will say that.
• 1:50
  Track 2: Yeah it's a nice hairpiece yeah,
• 2:08
  Track 2: This week on Left of the Projector, we are celebrating both America and Left of the Projector.
• 2:13
  Track 2: This will be the 250th birthday of the United States and the 250th episode of this podcast.
• 2:20
  Track 2: We'll be discussing an all-American film, The Hunt for Red October,
• 2:25
  Track 2: featuring a whole host of people leading with Sean Connery, Alec Baldwin,
• 2:30
  Track 2: Scott Glenn, James Earl Jones, Sam Neill, and about 15 other men.
• 2:34
  Track 2: i don't believe a single female is in this
• 2:37
  Track 2: film it is of course from
• 2:41
  Track 2: 1990 a submarine spy thriller
• 2:44
  Track 2: i don't know that's has its own full genre listed on
• 2:47
  Track 2: wikipedia but apparently it does it was a smash in the box office making 200
• 2:51
  Track 2: million dollars on a 30 million dollar budget with me to celebrate america if
• 2:58
  Track 2: you want to or you could just decline i will bill and ward I will not be celebrating America.
• 3:07
  Track 3: Yeah, I'm actually pretty disappointed about the America part.
• 3:10
  Track 1: Yeah, that's the sad part.
• 3:12
  Track 3: Also, the submarine spy thriller, that's three different hyperlinks.
• 3:18
  Track 1: That's not a full thing. It's submarine.
• 3:23
  Track 1: Submarine is submarine film, though. So apparently that is its own subgenre.
• 3:30
  Track 2: Submarine films. Wow. Wow, you're right, it is.
• 3:33
  Track 1: So really, this is submarine film, spy film, and thriller. This is three films
• 3:37
  Track 1: together. This is a mashup film.
• 3:40
  Track 1: It's a mashup.
• 3:41
  Track 3: It's also like a Cold War film.
• 3:43
  Track 1: True.
• 3:44
  Track 3: Like, at the very end of, like, the Cold War. Like, the Berlin Wall had already
• 3:48
  Track 3: fell when this movie came out.
• 3:49
  Track 1: Yeah, but this is clearly, I mean, this is clearly a Cold War film.
• 3:52
  Track 1: I mean, it starts, like, you know, like, Gorbachev's taking power.
• 3:56
  Track 2: They were actually worried about it because the film, the book was written earlier,
• 4:02
  Track 2: and they thought, oh, well, what are we going to do?
• 4:04
  Track 2: Because it's six years later, the Soviet has fallen. and we'll just set it in
• 4:07
  Track 2: the time they wrote the book and just pretend no one, you know, no one cares.
• 4:11
  Track 2: No one notices. And they tried, and they, like, were really hardcore about making
• 4:14
  Track 2: it a thriller instead of it being a political movie.
• 4:17
  Track 2: Like, they were worried that people were not going to want to see it.
• 4:19
  Track 1: What a weird, like, what a weird fear.
• 4:23
  Track 1: It's like, as if they've never made a movie set in a different time.
• 4:29
  Track 1: Like, how will we handle, will the audiences be able to figure out that this
• 4:34
  Track 1: movie is not exactly taking place at this moment what what a weird fucking.
• 4:39
  Track 2: When people saw tombstone they're like oh my god we had the wild west whoa holy shit response.
• 4:45
  Track 1: Swear to god these people these fucking studio people are fucking truly next level weird stupid.
• 4:53
  Track 2: So what did you guys think of this you uh i think we were talking in that open
• 4:57
  Track 2: uh that you had seen it a bunch war i i had very little recollection of it I
• 5:02
  Track 2: remember just being confused the last time I saw it.
• 5:04
  Track 3: Yeah, I saw it a bunch growing up and like as a kid and teenager.
• 5:08
  Track 3: And then it's been a while since I rewatched it. That's why like at first when
• 5:11
  Track 3: I was like, oh, yeah, this is the one with Ben Affleck. This is going to be sick.
• 5:16
  Track 3: I think I was just talking about it with these guys. And then,
• 5:20
  Track 3: yeah, it wasn't that one.
• 5:22
  Track 3: I mean, it's classic Tom Clancy, Red Scare propaganda, CIA doing CIA stuff, but it's,
• 5:31
  Track 3: not and it's not like it's not entertaining it's entertaining.
• 5:34
  Track 2: Yeah well this is the one thing that i felt
• 5:37
  Track 2: like was so well we can maybe you can maybe talk both say like what you think
• 5:42
  Track 2: about it specifically is like very heavy i mean there's a lot of propaganda
• 5:45
  Track 2: america good so union bad but the thing that i noticed when i was watching it
• 5:51
  Track 2: is the opening of the film you get a lot of insight into,
• 5:56
  Track 2: I guess you do see Alec Baldwin's wife in one scene, but you get the sense of, you get...
• 6:02
  Track 1: Yes. Dr. Beverly Crusher shows up for, like, exactly one scene.
• 6:08
  Track 1: She shows up to say goodbye. That's literally her scene.
• 6:12
  Track 1: She walks out a door, she's like, bye! That's it.
• 6:16
  Track 2: But what I was going to say is they completely humanize all of the Americans,
• 6:21
  Track 2: especially Alec Baldwin, whereas in the
• 6:24
  Track 2: soviet side you're kind of introduced to sean connery in a
• 6:28
  Track 2: you know sort of little monologue and
• 6:31
  Track 2: then he's on the submarine the red october and making them seem very sterile
• 6:38
  Track 2: which is kind of the way that america likes to depict you know soviet period
• 6:43
  Track 2: whereas america's like oh we're family i'm a family man i have a kid i'm gonna
• 6:47
  Track 2: do this thing for my country it's Sort of, I don't know.
• 6:51
  Track 3: No, no, definitely the stark portrayal between like, oh, I got a home life,
• 6:55
  Track 3: Jack Ryan versus like, yeah, Lithuanian porn, no family to leave behind,
• 7:01
  Track 3: fucking Captain Ramius.
• 7:04
  Track 3: Like, and it's, and he opens up with like, it's cold and hard.
• 7:09
  Track 2: Yeah.
• 7:10
  Track 3: Yeah.
• 7:12
  Track 3: like that's the only option that the soviet union could be.
• 7:16
  Track 1: I do think they tried to that out
• 7:19
  Track 1: of everybody connery's character they
• 7:23
  Track 1: attempted to humanize him but like
• 7:26
  Track 1: in the way that like he was a victim of soviet like soviet policies like he's
• 7:32
  Track 1: a victim like this is what this is what this is what the soviet union it's not
• 7:37
  Track 1: that the soviets themselves are cold and hard people it's that They have been
• 7:41
  Track 1: made that way by the Soviet government.
• 7:44
  Track 1: They're victims of it. Because they go back to his wife all the time and how she died.
• 7:50
  Track 1: They constantly bring that back up. And it's like, oh, we feel so bad for you.
• 7:56
  Track 1: We're so sorry. You had a wife and she died.
• 7:59
  Track 1: And it's vaguely threatening.
• 8:01
  Track 1: And again, as if something happened to her that was the government's fault almost.
• 8:07
  Track 1: But we have no reason to believe that. but the way they talk.
• 8:09
  Track 3: About it is it's almost like it's that yeah it's like
• 8:12
  Track 3: how was the state involved with his wife's death and why is that the crucial
• 8:17
  Track 3: thing did we yeah why do we miss the whole part where like it's a moral quandary
• 8:23
  Track 3: for him well and that's like the real reason why he's choosing to do this i.
• 8:29
  Track 2: Think the most the most bizarre thing about the introduction to knowing that
• 8:34
  Track 2: his wife had died is that so like the setup for this movie is we learn about
• 8:39
  Track 2: there's this ship the red October submarine this,
• 8:42
  Track 2: It's a brand new kind of submarine that has the ability to essentially be stealth.
• 8:47
  Track 2: It has like a silent motor.
• 8:49
  Track 2: And Jack Ryan flies out to tell the CIA to tell everyone that we need to do
• 8:58
  Track 2: something about this because we can't track it.
• 9:01
  Track 3: But then- He does tell us that James Earl Jones.
• 9:03
  Track 2: Yeah. He's doing a briefing and he's like, what day is it? This is the day of
• 9:08
  Track 2: the anniversary of this captain I met one time's dead wife.
• 9:12
  Track 2: It's like, fuck, dude. You did not remember that off the top of your head.
• 9:15
  Track 1: It's so bizarre.
• 9:17
  Track 3: It's so Tom Clancy. It's so Tom Clancy.
• 9:20
  Track 1: The shit that his character just leaps to is so bizarre. It's...
• 9:28
  Track 1: it's rain man level shit like it is fucking wild tom cruise should be in this
• 9:33
  Track 1: because he should be playing opposite fuck what's his name god damn it.
• 9:39
  Track 2: Sean allie baldwin.
• 9:40
  Track 1: No brain man fucking brain oh oh i see got it what's what's his what's the actor that played that man,
• 9:51
  Track 1: why can i not remember this dustin hoffman yes thank you he should be playing
• 9:58
  Track 1: opposite dustin hoffman because dustin hoffman because that's the shit he's
• 10:01
  Track 1: pulling in this it's like total just like absurdity like why that's.
• 10:08
  Track 2: That's the cia propaganda though right that like cia have these elite people.
• 10:12
  Track 3: Yeah it's all genius over the top stuff but it's like like like you said bill
• 10:17
  Track 3: like it's so ridiculous like my favorite was like he's sitting there contemplating
• 10:22
  Track 3: like how do you get how do you get sailors off.
• 10:26
  Track 1: Of a nuclear.
• 10:26
  Track 3: Submarine and it's like the real answer is uh you put them on a fucking submarine.
• 10:32
  Track 1: They want to get the fuck off what the fuck are you talking about.
• 10:36
  Track 3: Are you fucking crazy nobody wants to be in that.
• 10:41
  Track 1: Motherfucker you know it's like have Have you seen the inside of this thing?
• 10:47
  Track 1: No one wants to be in that. That's not going to be like, we should shove 20
• 10:49
  Track 1: people in a closet, but how will we get them out?
• 10:53
  Track 3: Okay, so Typhoon class is massive. They had a pool and a sauna on board.
• 10:58
  Track 1: Get out.
• 10:59
  Track 3: No, like legit. Had a pool and a sauna on board.
• 11:05
  Track 3: Some of you usually try and take care of its sailors.
• 11:07
  Track 1: First of all, saunas are just rooms, okay? I'm not that impressed by that.
• 11:13
  Track 3: Okay.
• 11:14
  Track 1: A sauna is basically a bathroom with steam. Okay.
• 11:18
  Track 1: First of all, but still, like Warren said, nobody wants to be like,
• 11:24
  Track 1: you're, it's tight. It's like you're underwater.
• 11:27
  Track 1: Like you can't see the sky. You can't see sun. And you know,
• 11:29
  Track 1: it's like fucking, or even the moon. It's, you see nothing.
• 11:32
  Track 1: It's just piped in air, recycled air.
• 11:35
  Track 2: And they built, they built like crazy submarine sets that were in the water
• 11:40
  Track 2: that would actually move. And apparently some of the actors got seasick during
• 11:44
  Track 2: the filming of it, which is pretty crazy.
• 11:46
  Track 3: And they even got seasick on the hydraulic sets.
• 11:49
  Track 2: Yes. Yes. The hydraulic sets. But they built a crazy amount of sets.
• 11:53
  Track 2: I mean, I will say the insides of all of the, like all of the,
• 11:57
  Track 2: in the submarine cinematography and the way it's filmed is pretty incredible.
• 12:02
  Track 3: Yeah no it was yeah it was really well done like i
• 12:05
  Track 3: was looking at some stuff where like apparently like casts and like cameramen
• 12:08
  Track 3: were like constantly bumping bumping into each other because the set was like
• 12:12
  Track 3: that cramped um but like they did such a good job with the shots and then also
• 12:17
  Track 3: keeping it where it's like each submarine has its like own distinctive feel
• 12:22
  Track 3: where you don't really get lost between all the jumps and cuts between submarines yeah.
• 12:27
  Track 1: It felt it felt cramped like it felt.
• 12:31
  Track 3: Yes You.
• 12:32
  Track 1: Definitely got like,
• 12:35
  Track 1: The sensation, like, oh, that they're, like, in, like, a sub.
• 12:38
  Track 2: And I completely forgot to mention that this is directed by John McTiernan,
• 12:42
  Track 2: who people probably know from things like Predator and Last Action Hero.
• 12:49
  Track 2: What else did he do? One of the Die Hard movies.
• 12:53
  Track 1: He did Die Hard. Like, the original Die Hard.
• 12:55
  Track 3: I was about to say.
• 12:55
  Track 2: He did Die Hard. Did he do the original?
• 12:57
  Track 1: Okay, sorry. Yeah. You know, the one people care about.
• 13:01
  Track 2: Right. He did one of the later ones.
• 13:03
  Track 3: The most.
• 13:04
  Track 2: But don't forget he did the uh the remake of rollerball which is a absolute piece of shit i.
• 13:10
  Track 3: Forgot about that yeah.
• 13:11
  Track 2: It's a really bad movie and.
• 13:13
  Track 1: He also went to prison by the way he also went to prison.
• 13:19
  Track 2: He did go to prison. That is correct.
• 13:24
  Track 2: If you actually listen to the episode we did on, I think on Predator and Predator
• 13:28
  Track 2: 2, we talked about that in that episode.
• 13:31
  Track 2: So, which I think was actually episode 150, which I guess you have to do tyranny
• 13:36
  Track 2: movies on every multiples of 50, something like that.
• 13:41
  Track 2: Or no, maybe it was actually episode 100. I don't know.
• 13:44
  Track 2: well whoever is listening whoever is the um the
• 13:47
  Track 2: scribe and the person who keeps the archive for you
• 13:50
  Track 2: can reach out at left to the projector at gmail.com and let
• 13:53
  Track 2: us know more comment and be mad well so
• 13:57
  Track 2: the the thing that's so the like the big
• 14:00
  Track 2: background in this too that is another one of the leaps
• 14:03
  Track 2: that jack ryan makes in this is he's
• 14:06
  Track 2: trying to figure out what's the like what the
• 14:09
  Track 2: what the submarine is capable of and now they're trying to figure out
• 14:12
  Track 2: how to get onto the to the
• 14:15
  Track 2: submarine because he's now somehow in his you
• 14:18
  Track 2: know cia genius brain has discovered that he is doing this on his wife's anniversary
• 14:23
  Track 2: of her death and he wants to defect to america i i do not the people who are
• 14:29
  Track 2: at in the briefing when he tells them that and they're all sort of what the
• 14:32
  Track 2: fuck are you talking about they're rightfully should be like what the fuck are
• 14:36
  Track 2: you talking about yeah right There.
• 14:38
  Track 1: Is no reason to come to that conclusion at all.
• 14:43
  Track 1: None. We have, there is no plot reason why anyone would assume that.
• 14:52
  Track 2: Except the propaganda side of everyone wants to come to America because America
• 14:58
  Track 2: is the land of blue jeans and the Soviet Union doesn't have any.
• 15:01
  Track 1: Yeah. The conversation between Marenus and was it Sam Neill's character?
• 15:10
  Track 2: Yeah.
• 15:10
  Track 1: About like what they want once they get to the States is the,
• 15:16
  Track 1: uh, Rameis, not Mayors, uh, Rameis, his character and, uh, Rameis and Borden Samuel's character.
• 15:24
  Track 1: That is, I feel like that is one of the most hand fisted conversations I've
• 15:34
  Track 1: ever seen, like in a movie.
• 15:38
  Track 1: and it just felt so just forced and flat and just absurd it just it was so ridiculous.
• 15:47
  Track 2: Doesn't he say he wants to go fishing is that the thing.
• 15:50
  Track 3: He like wants to go fishing wants to live in montana live in arizona in the
• 15:55
  Track 3: summer maybe get a recreational vehicle you know he has these real aspirational
• 16:00
  Track 3: goals once he gets to america budweiser i i contest with you bill Okay.
• 16:07
  Track 1: I think there's a more ham-fisted one?
• 16:10
  Track 3: No, I don't know. Maybe I've read Black Shirts and Reds too many times,
• 16:16
  Track 3: but that scene instantly struck me of the chapter Communism in Wonderland,
• 16:22
  Track 3: where it's like a lot of people in the Soviet Union didn't know what they really had.
• 16:28
  Track 3: You know, they didn't, they took for granted so many things and they had,
• 16:31
  Track 3: they had these material wants because they took for granted so many of the social
• 16:37
  Track 3: benefits that they're reaping because of the Soviet union.
• 16:41
  Track 3: Like I can absolutely agree that it's ham fisted. It's a fucking Tom Clancy
• 16:45
  Track 3: red scare propaganda film.
• 16:47
  Track 3: But like for me, like, I got, I fucking read, read a lot of parenti.
• 16:52
  Track 3: I can't help it. So I saw that and I was like.
• 16:54
  Track 1: Oh, I was looking at it from the perspective of.
• 16:58
  Track 1: an American writing that and like them, like kind of like not from the perspective
• 17:02
  Track 1: of like the characters, but like the perspective of like them,
• 17:05
  Track 1: like putting it in there because like, I don't think the Tom Clancy felt like that.
• 17:10
  Track 1: Like, you know what I mean? Like I was thinking about it, like from his perspective
• 17:14
  Track 1: of like how like forced it felt.
• 17:16
  Track 1: But at the same time, like I had, I did have that same response.
• 17:19
  Track 1: I'm like, because when he goes like, um, do you think you can travel from state to state?
• 17:26
  Track 1: and he's like yeah of course no papers and
• 17:29
  Track 1: no papers i'm like yeah he goes like all i could think was like yes true freedom
• 17:34
  Track 1: the ability to cross state lines without like any you know while also being
• 17:40
  Track 1: able to die of cancer like you know and and go into medical debt or you know,
• 17:47
  Track 1: lose your home and be homeless because you couldn't afford to pay rent you know
• 17:51
  Track 1: like That was my immediate thought.
• 17:55
  Track 2: He also says that he wants to raise rabbits and have a woman who will cook for him.
• 18:00
  Track 1: Yes. It's so...
• 18:04
  Track 1: It's so, like, it came off as so, like, demeaning, like these,
• 18:11
  Track 1: like, almost like these savages.
• 18:13
  Track 1: I just, I want a woman to cook for me, and I'm just gonna, that's all she can do is cook for me.
• 18:19
  Track 2: What, because in Soviet Russia, the women don't cook for you because they're too, I don't know.
• 18:24
  Track 1: I don't know. They have college degrees, and they're fucking scientists.
• 18:31
  Track 1: They're fucking doctors.
• 18:34
  Track 2: Yeah. The other side of that same sort of propaganda that struck me was,
• 18:40
  Track 2: I think when they're talking about, well, one, sorry, going back,
• 18:44
  Track 2: the beginning when they introduce you to Ramius,
• 18:47
  Track 2: Marco Ramius, the commanding officer of Sean Connery, he talks like they have
• 18:51
  Track 2: him, they're speaking in Russian.
• 18:53
  Track 2: We can also talk about his accent. They're speaking in Russian.
• 18:56
  Track 2: And then they use the word Armageddon, which is the same in both languages.
• 19:00
  Track 2: And they're like, yeah, we're just going to now switch over to English because
• 19:03
  Track 2: it's easier for everyone.
• 19:04
  Track 2: And of course, he has to use the Oppenheimer quote, the destroyer of worlds.
• 19:09
  Track 2: He's sort of going on the fact that only the Soviet Union would build a ship
• 19:15
  Track 2: or a weapon that's first strike capable.
• 19:18
  Track 2: Have you guys heard of America?
• 19:25
  Track 3: I mean if anyone's gonna first.
• 19:27
  Track 2: Strike it's definitely gonna be america.
• 19:28
  Track 3: Yeah so first off when they like switch languages and they like zoomed in on
• 19:35
  Track 3: the mouth that was a scene i completely forgot about and i watched it and i'll
• 19:40
  Track 3: as soon as it happened i was like eh 13th warrior did it better also.
• 19:46
  Track 1: John mcteernan film.
• 19:47
  Track 3: Really yep.
• 19:51
  Track 2: Nice wait which movie 13th.
• 19:55
  Track 3: War 13th war.
• 19:56
  Track 2: Oh you're right he did do that movie all the shit and it's also based on a book
• 20:01
  Track 2: but in that case michael creighton but talking.
• 20:04
  Track 3: About the u.s and first strike weapons like no absolutely i mean like they even
• 20:10
  Track 3: fucking mentioned the cuban missile crisis in this movie but it's like no mention
• 20:14
  Track 3: of uh first strike weapon u.s first strike weapons in turkey against the soviet.
• 20:19
  Track 1: Union no mention of the fact that the united states is the only country to drop
• 20:23
  Track 1: two nuclear weapons on another country but we just constantly gloss over that
• 20:27
  Track 1: fact we can't have we're actively building offensive.
• 20:30
  Track 3: Missile bases against china right.
• 20:32
  Track 1: Now like.
• 20:33
  Track 2: Yeah the they also
• 20:36
  Track 2: make that very distinct sort of the conversation where uh
• 20:39
  Track 2: i forget which one of them is saying how they had to when i
• 20:42
  Track 2: was younger i had to build a bomb shelter in my
• 20:45
  Track 2: basement because we were worried about the kid
• 20:48
  Track 2: yeah you know and it's just pile i think yeah they're just piling on you know
• 20:54
  Track 2: that the again that the soviets are savages they would first you know do it
• 20:59
  Track 2: to us first and they're worried that this stealth ship could just sneak up on
• 21:03
  Track 2: them and just you know go behind many lines the.
• 21:06
  Track 3: Reality of the cold war arms race was that it was not an arms race at all.
• 21:11
  Track 3: It was, like Parenti says in the yellow speech, a chase. And you can cut that audio in. Bah.
• 21:18
  Track 4: There is, ladies and gentlemen, those missiles are not the result of an arms
• 21:22
  Track 4: race. I maintain that there is no arms race, and there never has been.
• 21:26
  Track 4: A race, as you know, the model of a race is the two proponents moving,
• 21:31
  Track 4: each more furiously ahead of the other, trying to make as much,
• 21:34
  Track 4: put as much space to get to of some gold.
• 21:38
  Track 4: That model doesn't explain arms escalation.
• 21:42
  Track 4: What we have had, rather, has been an arms chase.
• 21:47
  Track 1: On a much less political point regarding the, you know, speaking in Russian
• 21:54
  Track 1: or like, um, now this film requires a separate subtitle file.
• 22:01
  Track 1: Um, it is my opinion that if you are making a film in America for an American
• 22:09
  Track 1: audience, and there are portions of that film, large portions of that film in another language,
• 22:15
  Track 1: those subtitles should be like part of the fucking like part of the actual movie
• 22:23
  Track 1: like the whole thing and to not do that is just lazy you're just lazy you're
• 22:27
  Track 1: lazy put it on the goddamn fucking film okay.
• 22:33
  Track 3: I'm trying to read my movie.
• 22:34
  Track 1: Okay.
• 22:34
  Track 2: There's a scene when they first go on the ship and there's a lot of sort of
• 22:38
  Track 2: you know side talk in russian and even with the extra subtitle they don't actually
• 22:43
  Track 2: yeah they don't even do that part.
• 22:45
  Track 1: They're lazy lazy filmmaking give me my fucking dialogue right there don't make
• 22:51
  Track 1: me don't make me work for it why do i have to turn subtitles on fucking put it there.
• 22:56
  Track 2: You know that during that scene they were just saying like random russian words
• 23:00
  Track 2: they weren't actually speaking in anything they're just probably just they have
• 23:03
  Track 2: like a dictionary open they're like dog cat the russian equivalent.
• 23:08
  Track 1: Of extras going rutabaga rutabaga rutabaga.
• 23:11
  Track 3: Exactly but god after the switch to like english and like the intermittent inconsistent
• 23:20
  Track 3: wavering russian accents is so fucking hilarious and never stops being funny.
• 23:27
  Track 2: I especially thought i was gonna be really annoyed by it but i kind of just
• 23:32
  Track 2: went with it and just sort of accepted the fact that it doesn't make sense connery's scottish.
• 23:37
  Track 1: Russian accent Yeah.
• 23:41
  Track 2: I love Sam. Sam Neill is great in this too.
• 23:44
  Track 1: Absolutely.
• 23:45
  Track 2: Yeah. We didn't even, we didn't even get to, I was saying how many,
• 23:48
  Track 2: like how deep this cast goes.
• 23:50
  Track 2: We also have Stellan Skarsgård, who's also in this.
• 23:55
  Track 2: We have Fred Thompson, who plays,
• 23:58
  Track 2: I think one of the, like the commanders during the earlier meetings.
• 24:03
  Track 2: Who else is in this? We said Tim Curry, Joss Ackland. I mean,
• 24:08
  Track 2: Jesus Christ. It's just. Tim Curry.
• 24:11
  Track 1: Is, Tim Curry feels like the odd the odd ball like how did he.
• 24:16
  Track 3: Feel such an odd.
• 24:17
  Track 1: Pick how did Tim Curry get near.
• 24:20
  Track 3: He's supposed to be the.
• 24:21
  Track 1: Doctor.
• 24:22
  Track 2: He looks kind of Russian if you're just an idiot I don't know.
• 24:28
  Track 3: But like he's supposed to be like the morally rigid doctor and it's like have
• 24:32
  Track 3: you seen anything Tim Curry's been in morally rigid describe him.
• 24:40
  Track 1: That's exactly when i think morally rigid i think tim curry.
• 24:45
  Track 2: They saw rocky horror picture show and were like yeah that's the guy we want yeah.
• 24:50
  Track 3: They could have sweat they could have swapped tim curry and stellan scars guard.
• 24:55
  Track 2: Oh yeah they could have done that yeah yeah arrogant.
• 24:58
  Track 3: Fool you killed us all and is tim curry that.
• 25:03
  Track 1: Would have been.
• 25:03
  Track 3: Amazing exactly.
• 25:05
  Track 2: It is like i do find the some
• 25:09
  Track 2: of the scenes in it really like the scene early on when you're like they're
• 25:13
  Track 2: they're going sean connery's going into the little safe to get their their secret
• 25:17
  Track 2: orders with their keys and then they read it and then he just chokes out the
• 25:22
  Track 2: other the like the politic officer was that his like title He's a political officer.
• 25:26
  Track 3: He doesn't choke him out. He like breaks his neck.
• 25:30
  Track 2: Oh, right. Right. That's what I mean. Sorry. I mean, he like, yeah.
• 25:32
  Track 3: But yeah, he's a political officer.
• 25:35
  Track 2: Oh, that was Peter Firth. I forgot. Yes. So he kills him and then he pretends that he slipped on T.
• 25:41
  Track 2: I feel like they know that that's a lie, but they just sort of like,
• 25:44
  Track 2: well, what are we going to do?
• 25:46
  Track 1: Yeah.
• 25:48
  Track 3: I mean, yeah, like higher ranking military officer, what are you going to do?
• 25:52
  Track 3: He's kind of in charge. And also the political officer was like the first and
• 25:57
  Track 3: kind of only line of defense that like everybody else had against a situation like this.
• 26:03
  Track 2: And I guess you only have to convince all the big officers on the ship left were also defecting.
• 26:08
  Track 2: So if they said it was a accident, like, what are they going to,
• 26:12
  Track 2: you know, everyone else on the ship just believes whatever they all are just, you know,
• 26:16
  Track 2: we believe Sean, they believe Sean Connery is the good guy until they're off
• 26:20
  Track 2: the ship and on the American boat and they still think they're fighting with each, you know,
• 26:25
  Track 2: like they'll go Soviet to the end.
• 26:27
  Track 3: Well, yeah, that was even commented on in the film where he's like,
• 26:31
  Track 3: he's been in, Ramius has been in long enough. He can hand select a crew that
• 26:35
  Track 3: will like follow him to do whatever.
• 26:37
  Track 3: So like he picked those guys that are like, oh yeah, I know these guys fucking,
• 26:42
  Track 3: they don't care. They're not for the fatherland.
• 26:46
  Track 2: I really wanted when Stellan Skarsgård came on and they're talking about their,
• 26:50
  Track 2: they're in that sort of dinner where they're all kind of, you know,
• 26:53
  Track 2: all the people who are defecting.
• 26:55
  Track 2: I really wanted to say that he was risking everything.
• 26:57
  Track 1: Yeah.
• 26:59
  Track 2: Be like, this is an Andor prequel, guys.
• 27:03
  Track 3: I had to make one Andor comment. If he didn't blow himself up,
• 27:08
  Track 3: you could easily be like, dude, he's based in this just like he is in Andor.
• 27:12
  Track 3: He's trying to stop these fucking defectors who are trying to hand over top
• 27:16
  Track 3: secret Soviet technology.
• 27:18
  Track 3: But then he fucking fucks it up.
• 27:22
  Track 1: He risked it all. He did risk it all.
• 27:26
  Track 3: His actions and intentions are still incredibly based.
• 27:31
  Track 2: Yeah. The one actor I did not mention, which maybe we don't want to,
• 27:35
  Track 2: he's not a good person, is Jeffrey Jones.
• 27:38
  Track 2: You know, fuck him as a human.
• 27:41
  Track 1: I don't remember who that is.
• 27:44
  Track 3: I don't.
• 27:44
  Track 2: You know who he is? He's Skip Taylor. He's like the...
• 27:48
  Track 1: Oh, that guy.
• 27:50
  Track 2: Yeah. He's not in it for very much. So it's not like he's a, you know, he just won a.
• 27:57
  Track 2: pretend he's not in it.
• 27:58
  Track 1: Yeah oh he's not even why is ghostbusters not like the first thing on his his wikipedia page i.
• 28:09
  Track 2: Always when i think of him i always think of beetlejuice.
• 28:10
  Track 1: I always think of ghostbusters or.
• 28:14
  Track 2: Ferris bueller's day off.
• 28:16
  Track 1: Yeah when i forgot he
• 28:19
  Track 1: was in this and when he showed up i was like oh oh
• 28:23
  Track 1: that guy fuck that guy i i
• 28:26
  Track 1: eat this this i don't
• 28:29
  Track 1: i i didn't you know like this movie just felt like it very much just like a
• 28:33
  Track 1: like loosely strung together series of events to extol the virtues of the united
• 28:40
  Track 1: states and to insult the soviet union that's really all it felt like to me i'm like you.
• 28:48
  Track 2: Got it what's what's even to like compound that is on the other ship i think
• 28:52
  Track 2: it's the uh the dallas the like the other american ship or the submarine not
• 28:57
  Track 2: ship submarine that they're.
• 28:58
  Track 1: That sort.
• 28:58
  Track 2: Of was following them they have that officer i think is jonesy who's the sonar
• 29:03
  Track 2: technician who's also like a genius that can hear anything you know not.
• 29:08
  Track 3: An officer he's extremely low-ranking english.
• 29:11
  Track 2: Oh he's a petty officer sorry apologies Now.
• 29:14
  Track 3: They refer to him as seaman.
• 29:16
  Track 2: Oh, really? In the Wikipedia, it says petty officer.
• 29:20
  Track 3: They call him seaman.
• 29:21
  Track 1: On Wikipedia, I see Jeffrey Jones. Oh, no, I'm sorry. That's Jeffrey Jones. I'm mixing up Joneses.
• 29:27
  Track 3: Okay so this is one thing courtney vance's character yeah
• 29:30
  Track 3: so i can get my auto my militaristic
• 29:34
  Track 3: and weapons autism out um procedurally this
• 29:38
  Track 3: movie is fucking fantastic when it comes to like military jargon
• 29:41
  Track 3: and procedures um the
• 29:45
  Track 3: terms that they use um and how
• 29:47
  Track 3: they do it um but the interactions are
• 29:51
  Track 3: a bit strange because like jonesy is like lower enlisted
• 29:54
  Track 3: but he's like super chill with like senior enlisted
• 29:58
  Track 3: and senior officers like the captain of the submarine which
• 30:02
  Track 3: is depending upon command possible but not the normal it'd be like a it'd be
• 30:08
  Track 3: more like a janitor like hanging out with the ceo being like yeah hey i got
• 30:13
  Track 3: this figured out by the way like that's kind of where you got to get it yeah
• 30:19
  Track 3: and he just like pulls out his thing.
• 30:20
  Track 2: And it starts drawing on the map like He owns the place, too.
• 30:25
  Track 3: Yeah.
• 30:26
  Track 1: There was one...
• 30:27
  Track 3: Especially, it's like, sonar tech. Why are you drawing lines,
• 30:29
  Track 3: dude? You figured out the plotting and all that, too? No.
• 30:33
  Track 1: There was one part that really stuck out to me in the beginning when they're
• 30:39
  Track 1: like, engage the Caterpillar Drive. We're going stealth.
• 30:43
  Track 1: And then the entire crew starts singing. They let them sing.
• 30:47
  Track 1: I'm like, that would defeat the purpose. You can hear that.
• 30:52
  Track 1: they could hear that 100% like when a submarine he says he can't yeah like what,
• 31:00
  Track 1: Listen, I don't know a lot, but one thing I do actually know is about submarines,
• 31:07
  Track 1: because this crosses with my interest of deep sea exploration and the ocean and fish shit.
• 31:14
  Track 1: And like most of like,
• 31:17
  Track 1: like the cold war and like
• 31:20
  Track 1: acoustic research during the cold war was so heavily like accelerated the research
• 31:29
  Track 1: of like deep sea exploration so much and like acoustics and like aquatic acoustics so much.
• 31:37
  Track 1: And like, I've read entire books about like just that, just that,
• 31:42
  Track 1: like, and it's like, yeah, they would have the entire fucking crew singing.
• 31:48
  Track 1: Yeah. They would have 100% pick that up. No problem.
• 31:53
  Track 3: Yeah. Like there's, there's layers of insulation designed to like help mask,
• 31:58
  Track 3: like engineering noises and
• 31:59
  Track 3: stuff like that on submarines. but like the entire crew singing in unison.
• 32:04
  Track 1: Yeah that's.
• 32:06
  Track 3: Still really loud and especially once you cut all engine noise out completely
• 32:11
  Track 3: and that's the loudest thing.
• 32:14
  Track 1: Then it just stands out then that's it stands out like a sore thumb that's how.
• 32:18
  Track 2: Jonesy goes if it weren't for that i don't think they would have been able to find them right yeah.
• 32:23
  Track 1: Yeah and it's like why would he have done that's such a stupid it's just a stupid
• 32:28
  Track 1: thing to do no that's not that's not really why that's not why oh no it wasn't sorry it.
• 32:32
  Track 2: Wasn't you're right you're right yeah.
• 32:32
  Track 1: It should have been why they found him they they found
• 32:35
  Track 1: them that should have been there should have been
• 32:38
  Track 1: none of this conversation about like you know fucking uh undersea magma like
• 32:44
  Track 1: you know noises or whatever it should be the seismic activity yeah there's i
• 32:49
  Track 1: can hear fucking 200 dudes singing the soviet anthem like end of conversation like.
• 32:59
  Track 2: Well, the other thing that I thought was funny too, is they distinctly mentioned
• 33:03
  Track 2: that they have this $40 million computer that does, you know,
• 33:08
  Track 2: I guess that does their tracking.
• 33:11
  Track 2: And he, like the captain, I think asked him, the, the seaman,
• 33:16
  Track 2: you know, you're, you know, more than this $40 million computer.
• 33:20
  Track 2: And he basically says, yes, I do. He's a genius.
• 33:24
  Track 1: That's why he gets to talk to the captain.
• 33:27
  Track 3: And that's why the military tries to recruit autistic people.
• 33:32
  Track 3: Who else is going to fucking figure that out?
• 33:35
  Track 3: Also, there's Navy involvement in making this film, which is probably why it's
• 33:39
  Track 3: so procedurally accurate.
• 33:45
  Track 2: Tom Clancy is well known for doing immense amounts of research about all of
• 33:51
  Track 2: that stuff when he's writing his books. But I'm sure that when they wrote the script...
• 33:57
  Track 3: So the book for this one, he ended up getting investigated because he had,
• 34:02
  Track 3: like, such an accurate description of, like,
• 34:05
  Track 3: the, uh, what CIC for, uh, on the submarine, which is, like,
• 34:10
  Track 3: that command and control room that they're in.
• 34:12
  Track 3: Um, he had such an accurate description of it, like, he ended up getting investigated.
• 34:16
  Track 3: He had just, like, read two books and played a video game called Harpoon.
• 34:21
  Track 1: Holy shit.
• 34:22
  Track 3: And they did a lot of thinking and just like logically like,
• 34:26
  Track 3: well, if I was in a fucking room like that, how would I lay it out?
• 34:30
  Track 3: And if you get in a certain mindset, you can figure out basically how the US
• 34:34
  Track 3: military does by basically everything.
• 34:37
  Track 3: Tom Clancy figured out, even though he came from insurance.
• 34:41
  Track 1: Yeah, they like to act like they've figured out some magic thing, but it's rational.
• 34:51
  Track 1: It's logical. That's all it is. It's procedure.
• 34:54
  Track 1: It's not like you didn't invent anything new.
• 35:00
  Track 2: One thing i also forgot to mention too is that for people listen to our red
• 35:04
  Track 2: dawn episode which was directed by john millius he apparently was brought on
• 35:08
  Track 2: to rewrite a bunch of the scenes with the russians and he wanted to rewrite
• 35:12
  Track 2: the whole script and they basically basically told him no just the scenes with thank.
• 35:16
  Track 3: God thank fucking god.
• 35:19
  Track 2: Oh he.
• 35:20
  Track 1: Would have shoved a bunch of 18 year olds this is this is such a better movie
• 35:24
  Track 1: he would have shoved a bunch of 16 year olds in that submarine.
• 35:30
  Track 2: Jesus christ and.
• 35:32
  Track 1: Screaming wolverines everyone would have known where the american sub was there
• 35:37
  Track 1: was screaming wolverine all the time.
• 35:42
  Track 2: But apparently like the original screenplay that they wrote they said was basically
• 35:47
  Track 2: terrible and they had to completely rewrite the whole thing and uh i don't know
• 35:52
  Track 2: i mean like you said ward i I mean, I don't know the details of, you know,
• 35:56
  Track 2: procedural stuff, but it, to me, felt realistic.
• 35:59
  Track 3: I put it up there with, like,
• 36:06
  Track 3: Greyhound and, like, generation kill in terms of, like, accuracy for,
• 36:11
  Track 3: like, military procedure.
• 36:14
  Track 3: Especially, like, terms, shit like that. Yeah. Jargon.
• 36:19
  Track 1: Greyhound was an incredibly boring movie, though.
• 36:25
  Track 1: i've never seen that don't ward how did you feel about greyhouse.
• 36:32
  Track 3: Uh it's it's really
• 36:37
  Track 3: marketed for people like me who like get off on the whole like military accuracy
• 36:42
  Track 3: in media it's that's all it's for that is all it's for and it does it extremely
• 36:50
  Track 3: well but if you're not into that,
• 36:54
  Track 3: it's fucking boring dog this.
• 36:57
  Track 2: Is the opposite of that though this is the opposite.
• 37:00
  Track 3: There's like a few scenes where you're like whoa oh okay but then you're like
• 37:04
  Track 3: okay that was a what the fuck are we back to yeah what are we doing sorry.
• 37:10
  Track 1: I didn't mean.
• 37:11
  Track 3: To get off track on great No, no, no, no, no. But a wonderful question.
• 37:17
  Track 2: The tension that they build and the, you know, the back and forth,
• 37:21
  Track 2: you sort of have the, especially when they drop Ryan onto the submarine on the
• 37:26
  Track 2: helicopter that's, you know,
• 37:27
  Track 2: on fumes of fuel and they're just, he just dives into the ocean and they pull
• 37:32
  Track 2: him out. All that shit's great.
• 37:34
  Track 3: That shit was done great too. Cause like they counted for the static electricity
• 37:37
  Track 3: that happens whenever you do for the helicopters. like so well done.
• 37:43
  Track 1: But like i kept like at the
• 37:46
  Track 1: same time like i kept getting like taken out of it by
• 37:48
  Track 1: like the just wildly implausible
• 37:53
  Track 1: leaps of logic that that
• 37:56
  Track 1: man would take and then people like yeah yeah we're gonna go with that like
• 38:01
  Track 1: no no like why would the captain of why would the captain of that boat ever
• 38:10
  Track 1: listened to anything he had to say that we have no reason.
• 38:14
  Track 1: There is no reason ever given like, even though he's like, I,
• 38:21
  Track 1: where will he turn? He turns that way.
• 38:25
  Track 1: and why is he lied.
• 38:28
  Track 2: About that he made that up.
• 38:29
  Track 1: You're right i know that i i am
• 38:31
  Track 1: aware of that why would the captain give it any credit why would
• 38:34
  Track 1: it matter anyway like yeah it
• 38:38
  Track 1: just it constantly took me out
• 38:41
  Track 1: of things that they would think that
• 38:45
  Track 1: they would give anything this man said any credence over anybody else like why
• 38:52
  Track 1: they literally have they have orders that came from like who was that guy the
• 39:00
  Track 1: the on the u.s side yeah oh.
• 39:03
  Track 2: You're not talking about the james general jones character do you.
• 39:06
  Track 1: No not james jones the guy that was talking to the russian representative the
• 39:13
  Track 1: Soviet representative.
• 39:14
  Track 2: Oh, yeah.
• 39:16
  Track 3: Presidential security advisor.
• 39:18
  Track 1: They have orders directly from
• 39:20
  Track 1: the national security advisor to fucking blow that, that, that sub up.
• 39:24
  Track 1: And then this guy who nobody knows from a hole in the wall is like,
• 39:29
  Track 1: actually, he's going to defect. And I know this because which way did he turn?
• 39:35
  Track 1: And they're like, uh, well, he's got us. I guess we won't blow them up. Like, in, it,
• 39:44
  Track 1: In what way? In what? Like, it just constantly took me out of it.
• 39:49
  Track 2: Like, well, can I, can I, I'm going to play like, I don't disagree with you,
• 39:53
  Track 2: but one of the things that also happens in this,
• 39:56
  Track 2: which is just strange to the ads, like a layer to it is after the red October
• 40:02
  Track 2: is out and seemingly the Russians find out what's he's doing.
• 40:07
  Track 2: Cause he wrote that letter to them, telling him what he was going to do,
• 40:10
  Track 2: which is really fucking stupid. But they deploy, what, 58 different submarines?
• 40:17
  Track 2: I think it's maybe more than that.
• 40:19
  Track 3: Yeah, it's like almost the entire fleet.
• 40:20
  Track 1: Yeah.
• 40:20
  Track 2: So that alone told America, I mean, obviously both sides seem to know more than they were letting on.
• 40:28
  Track 2: Like that's the whole, that's the politic of it. But I got the sense that by
• 40:31
  Track 2: doing all of that, it made everyone think, well, something must be happening here that we don't know.
• 40:37
  Track 2: Why would the Russians release all of their fleet for one ship?
• 40:43
  Track 2: Like, that doesn't make any sense.
• 40:45
  Track 1: Yeah. And what they were told was, he's going to launch nukes at our country.
• 40:51
  Track 1: That's what the commanding officer of Dallas was under the impression was supposed to happen.
• 40:57
  Track 1: And instead, Alec Baldwin shows up and goes, no, he's going to defect. You should believe me.
• 41:04
  Track 1: Why? Why?
• 41:06
  Track 3: Dude, even before that, when he's in the fucking helicopter,
• 41:09
  Track 3: and he's telling the dude, he's like, I need to get on that fucking submarine. Yeah.
• 41:14
  Track 3: And the pilot's like, I only have like so much fuel. And he's like,
• 41:18
  Track 3: you got an extra 10 minutes. Use that.
• 41:20
  Track 3: And it's like, I can only use that in fucking wartime. What are you talking about?
• 41:23
  Track 3: And he gives them a little motivational speech. And the guy's like,
• 41:26
  Track 3: yeah, no problem. I'll use my fucking reserves.
• 41:28
  Track 3: It's like, that's not fucking happening. Yeah.
• 41:32
  Track 2: That's true.
• 41:33
  Track 3: Those dudes put a lot of work in to get to the position that they're at.
• 41:38
  Track 3: They're not just going to fucking throw that shit away for some nobody.
• 41:41
  Track 3: But it's some hole in the wall.
• 41:42
  Track 1: He's the CIA. And that's really what it boils down to. This is an.
• 41:46
  Track 3: He doesn't even identify himself like instantly to like a lot of people. He's just like.
• 41:51
  Track 2: He's also wearing the military uniform too, which they also are annoyed about.
• 41:55
  Track 3: Yeah. And he's like, he's not that high rank enough to be demanding what he's demanding.
• 42:00
  Track 2: Yeah. And he's pretty young too. Would he be that rank at that age?
• 42:03
  Track 3: Just simply not. No.
• 42:05
  Track 1: All of it just feels like I said, like it's just, it's, it, it,
• 42:09
  Track 1: there's so much of it feels forced just to glaze the cia like that's all it is it's just like it.
• 42:18
  Track 3: Has the tom clancy.
• 42:19
  Track 1: How can we how can we just
• 42:22
  Track 1: push the narrative that the
• 42:25
  Track 1: cia and the agents that work for the
• 42:28
  Track 1: cia are truly the best
• 42:31
  Track 1: of the best they are smarter better more morally you know sound they are you
• 42:39
  Track 1: know the ultimate arbiters of truth america and the you know justice in the
• 42:44
  Track 1: american way and if the and if a cia agent says it it's true if.
• 42:49
  Track 3: There's that cool how are they getting.
• 42:51
  Track 2: Havana syndrome so much.
• 42:52
  Track 3: I completely agree with you but at the same time,
• 43:00
  Track 3: Sean Connery when he rips out that fucking it reminds me of the heady days of
• 43:05
  Track 3: Sputnik and Yuri Gagarin and the when the world trembled at the sound of our
• 43:10
  Track 3: rockets now they'll tremble again at the sound of our silence that shit went
• 43:13
  Track 3: fucking hard I'm not gonna lie.
• 43:14
  Track 1: And then.
• 43:15
  Track 3: They went all singing that shit was.
• 43:17
  Track 1: Awesome 100% it absolutely did and yet like that was a lie like he was yeah
• 43:26
  Track 1: I know it was like it went hard
• 43:30
  Track 1: because in our hearts we were like yes you should extol the virtues of the soviet
• 43:35
  Track 1: union that's why that went hard you should we're like yeah yuri was awesome you.
• 43:42
  Track 2: Notice that they also the character's name was putin although i guess at this.
• 43:45
  Track 1: Time yes yeah the first time it shit the first time he said it and it like i
• 43:50
  Track 1: was like what what the fuck joy.
• 43:53
  Track 3: Did the same thing when.
• 43:54
  Track 1: We're watching it I'm glad I wasn't the only one.
• 43:57
  Track 3: She was like, bad Putin? I was like, nah. No, no, no, no.
• 43:59
  Track 2: I wrote that in my note. I wrote Putin question mark.
• 44:03
  Track 1: This is just a nobody Putin.
• 44:05
  Track 2: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's.
• 44:07
  Track 1: Putin random.
• 44:08
  Track 2: Oh, I mean, another thing that is pretty awesome is when Sean Connery is,
• 44:14
  Track 2: you know, leading them through those trenches.
• 44:17
  Track 2: And everyone is basically, I don't know how accurate any of this is,
• 44:21
  Track 2: but they're, they don't believe that he's going to be able to get them through.
• 44:23
  Track 2: it and he does these crazy maneuvers and he just like whips them through i don't
• 44:27
  Track 2: know is it if you hit one of those trenches is it just gonna fuck up one of
• 44:32
  Track 2: those submarines or would that just give away your locate or both yeah it'll fuck that.
• 44:37
  Track 3: Shit up yeah it will fuck that shit up yeah boats boats don't handle yeah boats
• 44:43
  Track 3: and submarines don't handle running into shit very well.
• 44:47
  Track 2: Like at all Famously.
• 44:49
  Track 1: Famously, there's a whole, there's a, there's one boat particularly famous for
• 44:54
  Track 1: hitting something and it going really poorly.
• 44:58
  Track 3: Yeah.
• 45:02
  Track 2: Yeah, poor Leo.
• 45:04
  Track 3: And with that description alone, it could be multiple shipwrecks.
• 45:08
  Track 1: Yeah. But I mean, like, no, yeah, definitely.
• 45:13
  Track 2: What do you think the scene also I thought was really funny is when they both
• 45:16
  Track 2: go up and they're like, you know, with the periscope and they're doing the Morse
• 45:20
  Track 2: code to each other. Would they be?
• 45:22
  Track 3: Yeah.
• 45:23
  Track 2: He's like pounding that in pretty quickly.
• 45:25
  Track 3: Yeah. Well, I'd like how he said, like, he's a he's pretty rusty.
• 45:30
  Track 3: So he's like, I'm he's winging it.
• 45:33
  Track 3: That's how it's coming out so fast for him. But like, I like that.
• 45:37
  Track 3: Cause it's like, that shit would never happen in real life. Like the awkwardness
• 45:41
  Track 3: of two fucking nuclear submarines next to each other like that. No.
• 45:48
  Track 2: Yeah. That was a little, but I know it was fun. I'd like that.
• 45:53
  Track 3: It was a fun scene. I like, I still enjoyed it.
• 45:56
  Track 1: My favorite part was when the two subs meet up.
• 46:01
  Track 1: And he literally asks for a hammer so he can knock on the hatch.
• 46:06
  Track 3: Oh, that was great.
• 46:07
  Track 1: Give him that hammer. And I just love the idea. I just love the idea that that's
• 46:12
  Track 1: what they, they just have a hammer hang in there for that. That's what it's there for.
• 46:16
  Track 1: That's its only job is to, to knock on other subs doors.
• 46:21
  Track 2: And then when they go into the other sub and they're like, you know,
• 46:24
  Track 2: they have guns and basically like, don't shoot anything you're not supposed
• 46:28
  Track 2: to in that room. where all the really blowing up stuff is and he's you know
• 46:33
  Track 2: they're just firing at each other and nothing explodes but.
• 46:35
  Track 3: Yeah that's the silo tube room where it's literally that's where all the nukes
• 46:40
  Track 3: are but like funnily enough you can like go look on YouTube you can shoot bullets
• 46:45
  Track 3: at nukes all day yeah it's fine that's not how they work yeah,
• 46:53
  Track 3: it's just not how they work.
• 46:57
  Track 1: Baldwin was he was I was said Baldwin was funny like he was good and like when
• 47:04
  Track 1: in that whole scene when he's with Connery and he's like you know don't it's
• 47:08
  Track 1: like nothing in there there should be she's like oh yeah okay no nothing what
• 47:12
  Track 1: about me I don't want to get shot like you know like it was a genuinely funny moment.
• 47:17
  Track 3: Yeah and then when the other guy's shooting he's like oh I'm not supposed to
• 47:20
  Track 3: shoot anything like sensitive okay and.
• 47:23
  Track 1: Then you have the the true hero the true.
• 47:26
  Track 3: Hero of.
• 47:27
  Track 1: This film the cook.
• 47:29
  Track 3: Whose name i don't remember i mean
• 47:33
  Track 3: that's what happens sometimes in revolution we have a lot of heroes that get
• 47:36
  Track 3: lost to history because we can't record all things i think it's logging on we're
• 47:42
  Track 3: we're all Shut up I'm talking I'm talking I'm talking.
• 47:56
  Track 2: I could be wrong about that.
• 47:59
  Track 1: No, you were correct.
• 48:01
  Track 3: Yeah, but no, he's the hero.
• 48:03
  Track 1: He's the true hero. He's the true hero. He sees what's going down,
• 48:07
  Track 1: and he wants to shut down.
• 48:08
  Track 3: Okay, I will say he could have got to that way earlier.
• 48:14
  Track 3: He let the drama drag out for a little bit longer before he showed up with a
• 48:19
  Track 3: gun and then fell back and tried to do the thing.
• 48:23
  Track 3: He could have just went and did the thing already and could have saved the day.
• 48:26
  Track 2: Did they make it, is it made explicitly clear that he is a intelligent agent?
• 48:34
  Track 1: No, it is not.
• 48:36
  Track 2: Which is kind of weird that they don't, right?
• 48:39
  Track 2: Like in the Wikipedia, if you look at his character, it says he's a GRU agent
• 48:43
  Track 2: on the Red October. And it doesn't actually say cook.
• 48:46
  Track 3: This is a film adaptation of a book.
• 48:49
  Track 1: Yeah.
• 48:49
  Track 2: Okay, okay.
• 48:50
  Track 3: That might be in the book.
• 48:51
  Track 1: Yeah, the movie.
• 48:52
  Track 2: I'm sure it was, right?
• 48:53
  Track 1: Like I said, The movie really does feel like a series of strung together set
• 48:58
  Track 1: pieces to glorify the CIA and villainize the Soviet Union.
• 49:03
  Track 1: There are huge, I mean, not plot holes. I've been calling plot holes.
• 49:09
  Track 1: It feels like a synopsis of a storyline at certain points.
• 49:13
  Track 2: There's a lot of leaps of faith.
• 49:15
  Track 1: Yeah.
• 49:16
  Track 2: Yeah. Yeah, you can't. I mean, that's, look at movies like Top Gun and those
• 49:22
  Track 2: kind of things where they're glorifying, but movies like that.
• 49:27
  Track 3: I mean, dude, Tom Clancy's always had a vibe of like a CIA dad telling his kid a bedtime story.
• 49:35
  Track 2: That's true.
• 49:35
  Track 3: That's all a Tom Clancy story.
• 49:37
  Track 1: That's exactly what it feels like. It's exactly what it feels like.
• 49:40
  Track 1: It's a bedtime story. It's a bedtime story for the American public about the CIA.
• 49:46
  Track 1: That's what this is. I mean, it's not as bad as people meet on vacation,
• 49:51
  Track 1: which is, like I said, like I told you guys the other day, like,
• 49:54
  Track 1: is, like, the memory of a synopsis of the cliff notes of the plot of the book.
• 49:59
  Track 1: But, like, it's still, like...
• 50:01
  Track 2: I mean, when you say it's really glorifying it that way, like when this movie
• 50:05
  Track 2: comes out after the Cold War is basically over,
• 50:10
  Track 2: at that point, do they even need to vilify the Soviet Union or is it more to
• 50:16
  Track 2: say to justify the actions to the public just to puff up America? Yeah.
• 50:23
  Track 2: Because you— Like at this point— It's.
• 50:25
  Track 1: It's over. And now it's like, but you still have to, you still,
• 50:28
  Track 1: now you have to continue to justify because you're not going to pack all that shit up.
• 50:32
  Track 1: You're not going to cut the budget. They're not going to stop doing stuff.
• 50:36
  Track 1: Now you have to, now you have to continue to justify all of that.
• 50:40
  Track 1: Now you won and now you have to continue to justify why you're going to keep
• 50:45
  Track 1: doing all this shit you do.
• 50:47
  Track 2: Good point. Yeah.
• 50:48
  Track 3: And not only that you got an american audience that like doesn't really understand
• 50:52
  Track 3: history yeah and politics so like you can get away with shit like this and like air force one.
• 51:00
  Track 2: Yeah that that's also true.
• 51:03
  Track 1: Like what do you think what do you think the average like the real understanding
• 51:07
  Track 1: of the cold war being quote-unquote over like was for the right person like.
• 51:17
  Track 2: I mean, it's one of those things where.
• 51:19
  Track 1: I mean, for years following this, action movies at this time,
• 51:25
  Track 1: like still, the Russians were still the enemies. They were still the villains. For years.
• 51:31
  Track 2: That's true.
• 51:32
  Track 1: It wasn't until.
• 51:33
  Track 2: It wasn't until the 90s and then they switched to Arabs.
• 51:35
  Track 1: Yeah. Like late 90s. Not even, you know, not mid 90s, not early 90s, late 90s.
• 51:42
  Track 3: Hey, Terminator 2 is an, Judgment Day is an exception.
• 51:48
  Track 3: who's oh when they're talking about skynet launching the fucking nukes and everything
• 51:52
  Track 3: it was like against russia aren't they our friends now yeah yeah.
• 51:57
  Track 2: Oh yeah it's.
• 51:59
  Track 3: Like one of the few exceptions.
• 52:00
  Track 2: Yeah and they they've been punishing uh them ever since they made that movie
• 52:04
  Track 2: yeah yeah i mean i guess you're right it was it's interesting that they started
• 52:09
  Track 2: demonizing arabs before 9-11 like maybe they knew that was gonna happen i don't know it's.
• 52:14
  Track 3: Almost like there It's because.
• 52:16
  Track 1: Well, that was because that demonization was in response to Iran,
• 52:22
  Track 1: largely, and like our...
• 52:26
  Track 1: relationship with them going even worse.
• 52:29
  Track 2: Yeah it's interesting i just googled uh like i went to a wikipedia page where
• 52:33
  Track 2: they talk about the portrayal of arabs in film and they point to the movie rules
• 52:38
  Track 2: of engagement as the moment when things flipped but i think it's true lies by far one of the most,
• 52:46
  Track 2: anti-islamic or uh and that was 1994 that was early i.
• 52:50
  Track 3: Mean true lies was early on that game for sure.
• 52:53
  Track 2: It was it is so racist holy shit
• 52:56
  Track 2: yes anyone out there should listen to the citations needed episode from like
• 53:02
  Track 2: 2020 they did a multiple part series where they talk about the demonization
• 53:08
  Track 2: of arabs in film and like they point to that one as numero uno tommy.
• 53:14
  Track 1: Lee jones is in so many movies glorifying the U.S. military. It is wild.
• 53:20
  Track 2: Tommy Lee Jones?
• 53:21
  Track 1: Yeah.
• 53:22
  Track 2: The Fugitive?
• 53:23
  Track 1: He's in so many.
• 53:25
  Track 3: That's FBI.
• 53:25
  Track 2: U.S. Marshals. Isn't that like a sequel to that?
• 53:28
  Track 3: That's another law enforcement agency and not the military.
• 53:31
  Track 1: Whatever. It's just the U.S. like hegemonic you know. You know,
• 53:36
  Track 1: overall, just the whole thing.
• 53:41
  Track 1: Yeah. If you have a character that represents the U.S.
• 53:46
  Track 1: and has a gun, Tommy Lee Jones, he's there for it.
• 53:50
  Track 3: The hunted. That's a perfect example.
• 53:54
  Track 2: Man, now I need to look at his film catalog. I don't know.
• 53:58
  Track 2: Is there any, I mean, the end of this movie, of course, U.S., good guy. U.S. did good.
• 54:07
  Track 2: Ryan and, like, they have, like, this whole.
• 54:10
  Track 3: Not only is U.S. good guy, but U.S. also gets to embarrass the Russian, the Soviet ambassador.
• 54:17
  Track 1: That scene, like, he's straight up. When he says that and he's like,
• 54:21
  Track 1: oh, you lost another sub?
• 54:23
  Track 3: Dude, not even that.
• 54:24
  Track 1: Or how many?
• 54:24
  Track 3: You lost another submarine? Like, brother, I just helped you out with one.
• 54:31
  Track 3: You really asking me about another?
• 54:32
  Track 1: As if the U.S. hasn't lost multiple nuclear weapons.
• 54:37
  Track 2: Right?
• 54:38
  Track 1: In its own country.
• 54:43
  Track 3: How many Ospreys have crashed with Marines inside of them?
• 54:47
  Track 1: I just want to say, you've lost multiple nuclear missiles within the borders
• 54:52
  Track 1: of your own country. Like, you didn't even leave home and you lost that shit.
• 54:58
  Track 1: There are nuclear missiles just in the United States. We don't know where.
• 55:03
  Track 1: Just fucking in the forest somewhere.
• 55:09
  Track 3: I love that the projector tasks you, comrade, if you have a spare weekend,
• 55:13
  Track 3: go find a nuclear device near you.
• 55:17
  Track 1: Like, there's like three off the coast of the Carolinas, I believe.
• 55:21
  Track 3: Yeah.
• 55:21
  Track 2: Really?
• 55:22
  Track 1: Yes.
• 55:23
  Track 3: Yeah.
• 55:24
  Track 2: Jesus Christ.
• 55:25
  Track 3: Yeah. Go Google Broken Arrow. Have fun.
• 55:28
  Track 1: Not even far off the coast of the Carolinas.
• 55:32
  Track 1: Like, I'm not talking like, you know, right outside international waters.
• 55:38
  Track 3: No. We're talking go get a fan boat. Some scuba gear, brother.
• 55:43
  Track 1: Stumble on that shit in Myrtle Beach.
• 55:47
  Track 2: You're taking your kids out for ice cream and fuck. The little bomb washes up on the boardwalk.
• 55:52
  Track 1: Jesus Christ.
• 55:55
  Track 1: Got some fucking gall.
• 55:57
  Track 2: I do like the one thing that they do to get all of the people off the ship is
• 56:04
  Track 2: they fake a nuclear leak to get them all off the ship,
• 56:10
  Track 2: which is pretty smart.
• 56:13
  Track 1: What I think, though, and I'm sorry, Evan, I'm not going to address that at
• 56:17
  Track 1: all. I think you are correct.
• 56:22
  Track 3: Anyways, here's Bill's point.
• 56:25
  Track 1: We've talked about this before about how basically like part
• 56:28
  Track 1: of the problem that we like are seeing in the u.s
• 56:31
  Track 1: itself and like within the u.s ruling class is
• 56:34
  Track 1: that basically like they've gotten the propaganda
• 56:38
  Track 1: and the u.s has gone up for so long and
• 56:41
  Track 1: it is that it's actually started to
• 56:43
  Track 1: infect the minds of the ruling class
• 56:46
  Track 1: as well and that like what we are watching
• 56:50
  Track 1: now is the result of an
• 56:53
  Track 1: entire ruling class that watched shit
• 56:57
  Track 1: like this came up in this and the
• 57:00
  Track 1: entire like the military apparatus as well
• 57:03
  Track 1: because they're starting like all the people like
• 57:06
  Track 1: as we said like you still have to hire other
• 57:10
  Track 1: people still come up and then like you know
• 57:12
  Track 1: through that and then serve in these these things and that
• 57:15
  Track 1: you have tainted them with this
• 57:18
  Track 1: shit and now we have an entire group of
• 57:21
  Track 1: people running the country and i'm not saying
• 57:24
  Track 1: they were ever anybody running this country ever was fucking like you know a
• 57:28
  Track 1: genius or brilliant or morally upstanding or whatever right but there is a difference
• 57:34
  Track 1: between being villainous evil self-serving and basically being the end result.
• 57:43
  Track 1: Brain rot propaganda and that's what we're
• 57:45
  Track 1: looking at we're looking at people that watched movies like this and thought
• 57:50
  Track 1: themselves yeah that's how america functions you get the russian ambassador
• 57:54
  Track 1: in and you just like you just cook them you're like yeah you lost another one
• 57:59
  Track 1: yeah that's how that's how real world that's how yeah that's what that's what
• 58:02
  Track 1: you do yeah and it's like that's not how yeah.
• 58:05
  Track 3: We get jd vance to make fun of.
• 58:07
  Track 1: Fucking zelinski in the white house like that's what
• 58:09
  Track 1: that's where we're at now we have an entire ruling
• 58:13
  Track 1: class that is actually high on its
• 58:16
  Track 1: own supply it's it's high on its own supply and it it is started to staff like
• 58:23
  Track 1: the actual military and like actual shit that needs to be done with people that
• 58:30
  Track 1: think like movies that's the propaganda is on.
• 58:34
  Track 3: Display in Iran.
• 58:36
  Track 1: Right now everyone is 12 yeah do.
• 58:39
  Track 3: You think it's they think it's some simple silver bullet like perfect answer
• 58:44
  Track 3: like oh we'll just like assassinate the Ayatollah it's like that's not how that
• 58:49
  Track 3: works dog who would have guessed you cut the head off the Hydra there's two.
• 58:52
  Track 1: More because.
• 58:53
  Track 3: It's wow it's a rich and complex society like who would have guessed that yeah they literally.
• 59:00
  Track 1: Are getting their ideas.
• 59:01
  Track 2: From film yeah yeah.
• 59:03
  Track 1: It's not life is not a fucking movie and that's this
• 59:06
  Track 1: country has fed this kind of shit to its population for so long that now it
• 59:13
  Track 1: has become it is it is not just the it has become the superstructure and like
• 59:19
  Track 1: it's like fuck this is bad it's like you can't even be villainous,
• 59:27
  Track 1: and like rub two brain cells together.
• 59:31
  Track 1: It's just, this is what it is. It's just people parroting what they see in movies. And it's absurd.
• 59:37
  Track 1: It really does feel like this is, it's I think,
• 59:42
  Track 1: This movie is a bedtime story that America tells itself. It really is.
• 59:47
  Track 3: Yeah. It's the American dream.
• 59:50
  Track 1: Yeah.
• 59:51
  Track 2: Happy birthday, America, and fuck you.
• 59:53
  Track 1: I did not particularly enjoy this movie. I don't enjoy, I have no like,
• 59:59
  Track 1: you know, I don't care about subs.
• 1:00:02
  Track 1: I don't have that autism. I don't care. I was just like, yeah.
• 1:00:06
  Track 3: Yeah.
• 1:00:07
  Track 2: It's funny the thing is that now i find it harder to watch even like movies
• 1:00:12
  Track 2: that i liked when i was you know a kid that are military like you know pro cia
• 1:00:17
  Track 2: type of shit this i even though i accept it that it's glorifying america i thought it's a great movie.
• 1:00:25
  Track 1: It just felt so 90s.
• 1:00:26
  Track 2: It's just it's fun oh.
• 1:00:27
  Track 3: Oh it's such a 90s movie it's.
• 1:00:30
  Track 1: Yeah that's that's all i could do like it just feels so 90s I don't know what it was about it.
• 1:00:34
  Track 3: That's just, it's very 90s.
• 1:00:35
  Track 2: I just, I did my, my, like my thing about it is they made a movie on submarines,
• 1:00:41
  Track 2: which just like, if you describe this movie to someone, they'd probably say,
• 1:00:46
  Track 2: really, you're going to make a movie about that?
• 1:00:48
  Track 2: And they make it pretty compelling for me, for my personal, I mean.
• 1:00:52
  Track 1: I do think the, the effect, like the practical, like the Sentinel and stuff, very impressive.
• 1:00:57
  Track 1: I will never, you know, deny that. Very impressive.
• 1:01:00
  Track 2: Yeah. Oh, yeah.
• 1:01:01
  Track 1: Absolutely awesome.
• 1:01:02
  Track 3: I'm not solid too.
• 1:01:04
  Track 1: Yes.
• 1:01:05
  Track 2: Yeah. I mean, I, there rarely do you have a movie too with just,
• 1:01:08
  Track 2: I mean, a lot of these are character actors.
• 1:01:10
  Track 2: I understand, but just everyone across the board is just.
• 1:01:13
  Track 1: Uh, yeah. Like there's nothing that like, I can like point to like literally
• 1:01:19
  Track 1: the only reason I don't like this movie is basically the politics.
• 1:01:23
  Track 1: Like, uh, that's really, that's it. That's why I didn't enjoy it. It's the politics.
• 1:01:27
  Track 1: I, I couldn't see. I couldn't see past that at all.
• 1:01:31
  Track 1: I have no, i have no like childhood like
• 1:01:34
  Track 1: connection to this you know like i watched it once when i was you know probably
• 1:01:39
  Track 1: like 13 i have you know i have no nostalgia for it i at all and i'm just like
• 1:01:45
  Track 1: this is very 90s and america's terrible like that's what i yeah.
• 1:01:51
  Track 2: Not wrong yeah no i i appreciate that the politics suck but just uh you know
• 1:01:57
  Track 2: there's some movies that somehow john mcclellan makes a good film.
• 1:02:01
  Track 1: I could have used more Toxic Beverly Crusher.
• 1:02:05
  Track 2: This movie does not pass the Bechdel test.
• 1:02:09
  Track 1: God no.
• 1:02:12
  Track 1: But to be fair, to be fair,
• 1:02:16
  Track 1: I honestly think that if there was more than one woman in it,
• 1:02:21
  Track 1: it would, because there is nothing in this film that is in any way,
• 1:02:27
  Track 1: shape or form sexual or any gendered at all.
• 1:02:33
  Track 1: Like, like it's just people talk about fucking submarines.
• 1:02:41
  Track 2: I feel like i have one funny thing there was like one line that i thought was good um i liked jonesy.
• 1:02:48
  Track 1: That's who i liked.
• 1:02:49
  Track 2: There was there i don't remember when this happened but i think it's near the
• 1:02:52
  Track 2: end and they're talking about maybe it's when ryan and connery are talking and
• 1:02:59
  Track 2: he says something like a little revolution now and then is a healthy thing yes you think,
• 1:03:05
  Track 2: wasn't that a weird line yes.
• 1:03:07
  Track 1: It really was i was like where did if you thought that man why the fuck did you come to this place.
• 1:03:18
  Track 2: Yeah, that was literally the last thing in my notes. I just thought,
• 1:03:21
  Track 2: why did they put that in there? But whatever.
• 1:03:26
  Track 3: Yeah, I don't know. It's like a, I don't know. It was kind of like a Ramius
• 1:03:30
  Track 3: is like a military stand-in for Soviet Rosenbergs.
• 1:03:37
  Track 3: Like, I don't know. This is another bedtime story, though.
• 1:03:40
  Track 2: Well, this one goes out to the fans. For myself, Evan, Bill Ward.
• 1:03:46
  Track 2: we don't have a cool catchphrase to end the show do we if you have.
• 1:03:49
  Track 3: A cool catchphrase for the podcast oh yeah if you got an idea for a cool wrap
• 1:03:56
  Track 3: up as i crack my beer a cool projector for the podcast left at the jacker do that.
• 1:04:04
  Track 1: Evan do that do.
• 1:04:05
  Track 3: We want to know thing.
• 1:04:06
  Track 1: On the stories and the instagrams.
• 1:04:08
  Track 3: Oh yeah that too oh.
• 1:04:10
  Track 1: Where you put the thing and people can fill out stuff god i sound.
• 1:04:15
  Track 3: We tell him from the basement oh where.
• 1:04:19
  Track 2: You can you ask a question and they can type in their their suggestion yeah.
• 1:04:24
  Track 1: Yeah do that.
• 1:04:25
  Track 2: You can you can find us on the internet you can listen to this podcast everywhere
• 1:04:29
  Track 2: absolutely you can you can hear us you can hear us in the in the sonar on uh on uh submarines.
• 1:04:34
  Track 3: Oh that ping was sick apparently they spent like a lot of time on that pink
• 1:04:39
  Track 3: oh like i was yeah i was uh i watched like some behind the scenes thing and
• 1:04:44
  Track 3: uh like it kind of reminded me how uh bill was talking about like the godzilla,
• 1:04:50
  Track 3: which godzilla movie was it.
• 1:04:52
  Track 1: 2014 how they like layered.
• 1:04:54
  Track 3: All together yeah yeah they did like a lot of work to figure out that pink.