Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / “CESSPOOL PRINCESS” Shoves Voice Teacher, 87, DEAD, SWEETHEART DEAL

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“CESSPOOL PRINCESS” Shoves Voice Teacher, 87, DEAD, SWEETHEART DEAL · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Let me understand this correctly.
0:15
Speaker 1: A perfectly healthy, twenty seven year old woman, college degree,
0:22
Speaker 1: great future born with a silver spoon in her mouth,
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Speaker 1: gets drunk and high and shoves a beloved eighty seven
0:35
Speaker 1: year old voice coach standing minding her own business on
0:42
Speaker 1: the sidewalk, forcefully shoving her to the ground. She hits
0:46
Speaker 1: her head and the voice coach dies. The grandma dies.
0:55
Speaker 1: The so called Long Island event planner, Lauren Pazienza says
1:04
Speaker 1: her defense is, I was so drunk and high, I
1:08
Speaker 1: don't know what happened.
1:09
Speaker 2: Really.
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Speaker 1: If that were a valid defense under the law, every
1:13
Speaker 1: person in the Folding County gym will be walking free
1:15
Speaker 1: right now that all claim they were drunk and high
1:20
Speaker 1: when they kill somebody in the last hours, A stunning
1:26
Speaker 1: guilty plea and what many believe to be a sweetheart
1:29
Speaker 1: sentence goes down. I mean to see, Grace, this is
1:33
Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at
1:36
Speaker 1: serious XEM one eleven.
1:38
Speaker 2: What happened?
1:40
Speaker 3: What?
1:42
Speaker 1: According to police, the so called cesspool princess, Yes, her
1:46
Speaker 1: father dig says pools and it has become a millionaire
1:49
Speaker 1: doing it, attacks the voice coach eighty seven years old.
1:55
Speaker 1: Eighty seven years old, that's like my mom who's about
1:58
Speaker 1: to turn ninety two.
2:01
Speaker 2: Shoves her so hard.
2:03
Speaker 1: Now the voice coach lived for a period of time
2:06
Speaker 1: after she's come to the hospital, and she said, that's
2:09
Speaker 1: the hardest I've ever been hit in my life. And
2:11
Speaker 1: she's right. She shows this grandma to the ground, to
2:15
Speaker 1: the sidewalk. She hits her head on the cement in bam,
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Speaker 1: she dies.
2:20
Speaker 2: Now.
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Speaker 1: Pasienza, the heiress to a huge cesspool draining empire, has
2:28
Speaker 1: been at rykers about a year, I guess trying to
2:32
Speaker 1: dream up a defense. There's not even a motive for this.
2:36
Speaker 1: But how did the whole thing start at? How did
2:39
Speaker 1: she get a sweetheart deal? Take a listen to our
2:43
Speaker 1: friends ay crime online.
2:45
Speaker 4: The attorney for New York City's sidewalk shover Lauren Posienza,
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Speaker 4: claims the spoiled socialite was a drunk and high mess
2:53
Speaker 4: the night she allegedly pushed legendary Broadway singing coach Barbara Augustrin,
2:57
Speaker 4: causing the eighty seven year old to fall and later
3:00
Speaker 4: die from her injuries. Posienza's defense attorney, Arthur Idalla, standing
3:04
Speaker 4: outside the Manhattan Criminal Court room said, quote she had drugs,
3:08
Speaker 4: maybe two bottles of wine and a ton of marijuana unquote.
3:11
Speaker 4: Posienza's facing charges of manslaughter and assault for the unprovoked
3:15
Speaker 4: attack on Gustern. After Posienza allegedly shoved her, the eighty
3:19
Speaker 4: seven year old legend fell and hit her head. She
3:21
Speaker 4: died five days later from those injuries. The twenty seven
3:24
Speaker 4: year old has been held at Riker's Island, but her
3:27
Speaker 4: lawyer said she's close to agreeing to a plea deal.
3:30
Speaker 1: I don't know about that. I don't know why this
3:32
Speaker 1: case should not go to trial. And this young woman,
3:35
Speaker 1: well she's not that young. She's twenty seven years old,
3:37
Speaker 1: old enough to know better. Shouldn't get the max. The
3:41
Speaker 1: victim in this case, Barbara Mayor Gustern, was not just
3:46
Speaker 1: a legend in the singing industry.
3:50
Speaker 2: She's a beloved mother and grandmother.
3:55
Speaker 1: Joining me right now in addition to an all star
3:57
Speaker 1: panel is her grandson, aj Aj Mayor Gustern.
4:04
Speaker 2: Aj. Thank you for being with us.
4:05
Speaker 5: Thank you for having me.
4:07
Speaker 1: I hope you had already heard of the defense and
4:11
Speaker 1: I definitely put that in air quotes. I don't want
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Speaker 1: to be the one to tell you to break it
4:16
Speaker 1: to you that the defense in this case is that
4:19
Speaker 1: she the defendant, the cesspool princess as she is called,
4:23
Speaker 1: and she gets that name. I think Tony di Stefano
4:25
Speaker 1: is with us from Newsday.
4:27
Speaker 2: Tony.
4:28
Speaker 1: Doesn't she get the name cesspool princess? She gets it
4:30
Speaker 1: because her father is a millionaire that digs septic tanks
4:35
Speaker 1: and all sorts of related products and services.
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Speaker 3: That's correct. He has a business on Long Island, and
4:43
Speaker 3: you know it's basically a cesspool cleaning and maintenance business.
4:47
Speaker 3: And I suppose he's done pretty well. He's got a
4:50
Speaker 3: nice home in Port jeff So poor Jefferson. So you
4:55
Speaker 3: know that's where that's where she gets that Moniker.
4:58
Speaker 1: Well, the reality she has been given everything in life
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Speaker 1: on a silver platter, advantages, schools, vacations, clothes most people
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Speaker 1: could only dream of. And this is what happens. Back
5:14
Speaker 1: to AJ Mayor Gustern, this is Barbara Gustern's grandson. AJ,
5:20
Speaker 1: what do you make of the defense that she should
5:23
Speaker 1: somehow get leniency because she had had two bottles of wine, drugs,
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Speaker 1: and a quote ton of weed the night that she
5:30
Speaker 1: shoved your grandmother to her death.
5:33
Speaker 5: Sure, I have been following this case quite closely. And
5:36
Speaker 5: I think it's interesting actually that her father recently seems
5:40
Speaker 5: to have changed the name of his business. I think
5:43
Speaker 5: the business had their name in it and they've since
5:45
Speaker 5: changed it. I think the defense is completely ridiculous, you know.
5:51
Speaker 5: I think in particular, I saw a mention of xen x,
5:55
Speaker 5: and anybody who's prescribed xen x should know when you
6:00
Speaker 5: mix it with alcohol, it leads to aggression. Right. It's
6:04
Speaker 5: a common thing of the next and I know plenty
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Speaker 5: of other people who have taken a little bit of
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Speaker 5: wine and weed and not done this. So people do
6:15
Speaker 5: it every day. It's completely ridiculous that she would resort
6:19
Speaker 5: to this.
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Speaker 2: A Jay, Were you with your grandmother till the end?
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Speaker 5: I was, I was holding her hand right when she passed.
6:26
Speaker 1: I read about that, and it just brings to mind
6:30
Speaker 1: being in the hospital room beside my dad when he
6:34
Speaker 1: passed away, and I'll never forget that, just sitting in
6:39
Speaker 1: the room after he had already gone to heaven and
6:44
Speaker 1: wondering why that had to happen.
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Speaker 2: It was exact same age as your grandma.
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Speaker 1: And when I hear this woman's lawyer claims she was
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Speaker 1: quote overcharged and that she should not be held accountable
6:59
Speaker 1: because she was drunk and high. That's not working for
7:04
Speaker 1: me with me right now. You know him well. Renowned
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Speaker 1: former chief medical examiner in New York City, past co
7:12
Speaker 1: director for New York State Police Medico Legal Investigations Unit,
7:16
Speaker 1: and author of American Autopsy, the famed doctor Michael Boden
7:22
Speaker 1: is joining us. Doctor Bond, thank you for being with us.
7:26
Speaker 1: What idiot would mix drugs weed and two bottles of wine.
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Speaker 6: Well, unfortunately there are a lot of such idiots around
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Speaker 6: the drink alcohol and use drugs much stronger than weed
7:41
Speaker 6: in our culture right now. But the kind of defense
7:45
Speaker 6: author Adalla is a very good lawyer, but the defense
7:51
Speaker 6: doesn't have much merit. It's not unreasonable if a defense
7:55
Speaker 6: lawyer doesn't have any better defense just to say, well,
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Speaker 6: my client, my defendant was drunk, he'd been drinking before
8:04
Speaker 6: he shot his wife, and he didn't really know what
8:06
Speaker 6: he's doing. And that may be partially true that if
8:09
Speaker 6: you have a lot of alcohol, you don't quite know
8:11
Speaker 6: what you're doing. But as soon as you start, you
8:14
Speaker 6: know when you're taking the alcohol, you know when you're
8:16
Speaker 6: taking the weed. And those are conscious decisions and they
8:20
Speaker 6: have consequences, and I think for that reason usually always
8:25
Speaker 6: in my experience, because I've been a number of testimonies
8:29
Speaker 6: where the defense was the person didn't know what he
8:33
Speaker 6: was doing because it was on amphetamines and drugs. He
8:36
Speaker 6: was most commonly on alcohol, and it never works because
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Speaker 6: the legal concept is it isn't just that you're not
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Speaker 6: in possession of all your faculties. It is because you
8:51
Speaker 6: knew that. You should have known that when you started
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Speaker 6: drinking the alcohol in the first place.
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Speaker 1: The reality is, and let me go this to James
8:57
Speaker 1: Sheller joining me, high profile lawyer out of the Atlanta
9:00
Speaker 1: metro area with a shell Nut law firm, not just
9:05
Speaker 1: for now lawyer, but was with major case division swat
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Speaker 1: James shell Nut. If the I was drunk defense was legitimate,
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Speaker 1: everybody in the Fulton County jail will be out right now.
9:20
Speaker 1: Everybody will go, yeah, I was drunk. That I mean
9:23
Speaker 1: the letter of the law, the black and white letter
9:26
Speaker 1: of the law is voluntary use of drugs or alcohol
9:32
Speaker 1: is not a defense under the law unless it can
9:36
Speaker 1: be proved the defendant was comatose, truly truly blacked out,
9:43
Speaker 1: But that would require you to be laying out flat
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Speaker 1: out comatose. This woman was not comatose. She was angry
9:50
Speaker 1: after a fight with her fiance, had a head of esteem,
9:55
Speaker 1: was drunk and high and using drugs. According to her lawyer,
9:58
Speaker 1: she was anything but.
10:00
Speaker 7: Oh, I agree one hundred percent, Lou. That's a pretty
10:03
Speaker 7: high hurdle to prove that you did not have the
10:07
Speaker 7: intent to commit a crime. You know, volunteer in tosxication
10:10
Speaker 7: is never a total defense to criminal charges, but volunteer
10:13
Speaker 7: intoxication can be used and can be argued under New
10:17
Speaker 7: York law. I've read the law on it this morning.
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Speaker 7: It can be used to negate the element of intent
10:23
Speaker 7: for some crime.
10:25
Speaker 1: Can I just break that down because that was quite
10:27
Speaker 1: a mouthful. You sound like a law school professor in
10:30
Speaker 1: a first year criminal law bottom line, it's never a defense.
10:35
Speaker 1: It's not a defense like this was an accident or
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Speaker 1: self defense, which are both total defenses.
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Speaker 2: Under the law.
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Speaker 1: If you can prove a case of self defense or
10:43
Speaker 1: it was an accident, you're out, you walk free, you're acquitted, bam.
10:49
Speaker 1: But if you have diminished capacity, it can reduce a
10:54
Speaker 1: case from murder one to let's just say, voluntary manslaughter.
10:59
Speaker 1: Because James Shell Nutt is pointing out, it can be
11:03
Speaker 1: argued that you had not complete control of your faculties.
11:08
Speaker 1: But from what we know that night, she knew exactly
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Speaker 1: what she was doing because she tried to cover her tracks.
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Speaker 2: She hid out afterwards and even lied.
11:32
Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace. We are learning that prior
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Speaker 1: to the random attack on a nearly ninety year old
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Speaker 1: woman so called Cesspool, Princess down glass after glass after
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Speaker 1: glass of wine, celebrating one hundred days till their wedding.
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Speaker 1: She says she may also have taken a xanax. Now,
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Speaker 1: according to her defense at her he's a well known
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Speaker 1: defense attorney, author Idalla. Now his defense is she had
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Speaker 1: maybe two bottles of wine, drugs and a ton of marijuana.
12:11
Speaker 1: That's the defense that makes me dislike her even more.
12:16
Speaker 1: What more do we know?
12:18
Speaker 2: Take a listen to I Had a Seagull at NBC four.
12:22
Speaker 8: A single bouquet of flowers sits on twenty eighth Street
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Speaker 8: tonight where Barbara Gustern was shoved to the ground last week. Today,
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Speaker 8: family announced that the beloved singer and renowned voice coach
12:33
Speaker 8: did not survive.
12:34
Speaker 9: Jearing about it, it made me feel like I got hit
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Speaker 9: on the head with the hammer.
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Speaker 8: On Barbara's Facebook page, her grandson posted a photo of
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Speaker 8: him holding her hand in the hospital, writing today at
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Speaker 8: eleven fifteen am, we've lost one of the brightest little
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Speaker 8: flames to ever grace this world.
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Speaker 2: The tributes came pouring in. She was so wonderful.
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Speaker 1: She was encouraging, she was firm, she was the perfect teacher.
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Speaker 3: She was a sharp her you know, season person. You know,
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Speaker 3: it's like she was amazing.
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Speaker 8: Stephen Shanahan owns restaurant in Theater Pangaea, where Barbara had
13:10
Speaker 8: recently performed and where she had hoped to premiere a
13:12
Speaker 8: new cabaret show.
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Speaker 1: They sing and they tell stories.
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Speaker 9: It's very heart wine and they've done several different shows here.
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Speaker 1: That's who was killed, That's who was shoved to the
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Speaker 1: sidewalk and aj Isn't it true your grandmother Barbara did
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Speaker 1: not know Lauren Posienza at all. They were complete strangers.
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Speaker 5: They're complete strangers. Yeah. I think it's another telling thing
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Speaker 5: that she targeted my grandmother, of all people. You know,
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Speaker 5: she didn't go after some two hundred pound guys. She
13:44
Speaker 5: went after my bob, Bob, who god was older than
13:49
Speaker 5: she weighed. You know, so it's seem comprehensible.
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Speaker 1: You know, you just really struck a nerve with me.
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Speaker 1: Aj My mother, Elizabeth, who lives with us. She's going
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Speaker 1: to be ninety two, god willing in December, and that's
14:07
Speaker 1: about what she weighs, no matter how much I try
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Speaker 1: to feed her. And the thought of someone pushing my
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Speaker 1: mother to the sidewalk where your grandma hit her head
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Speaker 1: and then died is unimaginable to me. The cruelty involved
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Speaker 1: in that. I want to understand what happened. Guys, take
14:34
Speaker 1: a listen to our cut eleven our friends at NBC four.
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Speaker 10: This attack happened on March tenth on twenty eighth Street
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Speaker 10: and Chelsea on Gusterrin's Block.
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Speaker 2: Detectives gave a surveillance from that night.
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Speaker 10: They say that she stayed in the area for about
14:47
Speaker 10: a half an hour and left only after she saw
14:49
Speaker 10: an ambulance arrive. We now know that investigators tracked her
14:52
Speaker 10: movements through the subway and when she met up with
14:54
Speaker 10: her fiance, all the way until they got to their
14:56
Speaker 10: apartment in Astoria.
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Speaker 5: I'd like to stress and is it until proven guilty,
15:01
Speaker 5: you know, as she did do this, then I would
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Speaker 5: like answers.
15:04
Speaker 2: But this woman deserves her day in court.
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Speaker 10: Why if police know, they aren't sharing that Tonight they
15:09
Speaker 10: are telling us that the suspect cursed of the victim,
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Speaker 10: and before she died, the victim told police the push
15:14
Speaker 10: was as hard as she's ever been hit in her life.
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Speaker 11: I feel very vulnerable. Look, I'm older and I have
15:21
Speaker 11: a keene that just squeams start up with me because
15:25
Speaker 11: I can't defend myself. I will to the death, but it,
15:29
Speaker 11: you know, it makes you feel like you have a
15:31
Speaker 11: tiget on your back.
15:33
Speaker 1: And to show guilty conscious which can come into evidence
15:37
Speaker 1: your actions before, during, and after a crime. That evidence
15:41
Speaker 1: is overwhelming. Hiding out, leaving the same, lying, deleting all
15:46
Speaker 1: of her social media, stashing her cell phone well as
15:49
Speaker 1: a matter of fact, take on an our cut ten
15:52
Speaker 1: our friend Erica Byfield.
15:53
Speaker 10: The police detailing tonight how they say that she tried
15:56
Speaker 10: to evade capture for weeks. They tell us that she
15:58
Speaker 10: quit her job, deleted all of our social media, got
16:01
Speaker 10: rid of her wedding website.
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Speaker 2: She was supposed to get married in June.
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Speaker 10: They also say that she stashed her cell phone at
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Speaker 10: her aunt's house and then hid out at her parents'
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Speaker 10: house a Long Island Ewhere midday Tuesday, we finally saw
16:15
Speaker 10: twenty six year old Lauren Pasienza, her hair draped over
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Speaker 10: her face, refusing to talk, just after police charged her
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Speaker 10: with manslaughter, saying that she shoved and killed eighty seven
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Speaker 10: year old Barbara Augustern. I think she was a crappy person.
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Speaker 10: I mean, who goes around scheving an old woman. Gusterne
16:31
Speaker 10: was of beloved Broadway voice coach. She gave lessons to
16:34
Speaker 10: the greats. Her grandson is still trying to process losing
16:37
Speaker 10: her and the arrest.
16:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, there is a sense of closure.
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Speaker 1: So if somebody is so drunk and high and on
16:45
Speaker 1: drugs that they had no idea what they were doing,
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Speaker 1: why did they hide out? Why did she delete all
16:54
Speaker 1: of her social media and not only that, even thinking
16:59
Speaker 1: to use her fiance's transit card so her movements could
17:04
Speaker 1: not be traced by police, including ditching her cell phone.
17:09
Speaker 1: Take us to our cut fourteen from our friends at
17:12
Speaker 1: Inside Edition.
17:13
Speaker 9: Authority say Pasienza and her fiance, who works for Microsoft,
17:17
Speaker 9: got into the subway at Penn Station. They transferred at
17:21
Speaker 9: Times Square and then took the train to their apartment
17:23
Speaker 9: in Queen's leaving a digital trail with the fiances metro card.
17:28
Speaker 9: Pasienza allegedly spent the next few hours taking down all
17:32
Speaker 9: her social media and photos, including the website for her
17:36
Speaker 9: June wedding. Police say the day after Gustern died, Pasienza
17:40
Speaker 9: went into hiding at her parents Long Island home. She
17:43
Speaker 9: stayed there for two weeks. Meanwhile, she must have known
17:46
Speaker 9: that police were on her tail. They released video of
17:50
Speaker 9: her at the crime scene and plastered wanted posters across
17:53
Speaker 9: the city. On Monday, two people who knew her well
17:56
Speaker 9: called in the tip. Detectives went to her parents' home.
18:00
Speaker 9: Her father reportedly told them she wasn't there, but wouldn't
18:03
Speaker 9: let them search the house. The next day, she knew
18:07
Speaker 9: it was over and she turned herself.
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Speaker 1: In, now claiming she's too drunk, high and on drugs
18:14
Speaker 1: to know what she was doing, but she sure left
18:17
Speaker 1: a trail a mile wide and tried to cover her tracks.
18:22
Speaker 1: To Tony di Stefano, Tony, thank you for being with
18:25
Speaker 1: us joining us on Newsday, Tony, what do we know
18:29
Speaker 1: about what really happened the night that Barbara was pushed
18:35
Speaker 1: ultimately to her death.
18:37
Speaker 3: Well from the police, reports from the criminal complaint and
18:42
Speaker 3: indictment in the case, we know that they had Lauren
18:47
Speaker 3: and her boyfriend were having drinks in a park. She
18:51
Speaker 3: was drinking a lot from what I understand, they were
18:54
Speaker 3: told to leave the park by a park worker because
18:56
Speaker 3: it was late.
18:58
Speaker 1: She got angry, hold on Tony to Stefano, got angry
19:03
Speaker 1: about what what she got, cut off from booze the
19:08
Speaker 1: bark But okay, right right there, right there, drugs, two
19:13
Speaker 1: bottles of wine, a quote ton of marijuana, and angry
19:17
Speaker 1: because she had been kicked out of Chelsea Park. I
19:19
Speaker 1: guess that's a bar restaurant that was closing. When she
19:22
Speaker 1: stops across the tee the street and out of sheer anger,
19:26
Speaker 1: I guess because they wouldn't let her have more booze.
19:29
Speaker 1: She push us an old lady to her death, and
19:32
Speaker 1: there's a video of her stomping off. Afterwards, she took many,
19:36
Speaker 1: many actions to hide her whereabouts, to cover her tracks,
19:44
Speaker 1: and then we find out she is said to have
19:46
Speaker 1: watched as the nine on one crew the EMTs took
19:51
Speaker 1: the frail little old lady away with blood seeping from
19:55
Speaker 1: her head. She just stood there and watched. She spent
19:59
Speaker 1: the next two weeks trying to cover her tracks, quitting
20:01
Speaker 1: her jobs, the leading all of her social media pages,
20:04
Speaker 1: even stashing her cell phone at her aunt's house in
20:07
Speaker 1: Long Island and runs away from her Astoria apartment.
20:11
Speaker 2: Wow.
20:12
Speaker 1: You know, it's just like Watergate. There's the crime, which
20:16
Speaker 1: is bad enough, but then there's a big, huge cover
20:20
Speaker 1: up that goes to the highest levels of government, all
20:22
Speaker 1: the way to the White House, cause Nixon to resign.
20:25
Speaker 1: The cover up, I mean, it is so much indication
20:29
Speaker 1: of guilt. But what happened that night? Who is this
20:33
Speaker 1: woman that's so called Saspool Princess? Doctor Angie, help me,
20:38
Speaker 1: because I don't understand. They're getting angry when you have
20:42
Speaker 1: to stop drinking and go home and go to sleep,
20:44
Speaker 1: Why would that make you angry?
20:46
Speaker 6: Nancy?
20:46
Speaker 12: I think that that shows us the inside workings of
20:52
Speaker 12: this girl's mind. No one ever tells her what to do,
20:57
Speaker 12: and if they do, she never has consequence. And if
21:01
Speaker 12: they tell her what to do, she acts badly like this.
21:06
Speaker 12: That's why she got mad, Because you know what, Nancy,
21:09
Speaker 12: she hasn't lived under the regular rules of other people.
21:14
Speaker 12: And that's the part of all of this that we
21:17
Speaker 12: need to look at. They keep saying that she's.
21:20
Speaker 3: A girl of privilege and all of.
21:22
Speaker 12: This Nancy, she hasn't lived like other people have lived.
21:26
Speaker 1: Hold on, I'm looking at a picture of her right
21:29
Speaker 1: now on a family vacation as a teen. She's got
21:33
Speaker 1: on like a leopard skin micro bikini beside a pool
21:41
Speaker 1: with palm trees in the background, and the caption says,
21:44
Speaker 1: appears to have lived a life of privilege and later
21:46
Speaker 1: glamour in New York City's high society.
21:50
Speaker 2: What does that mean?
21:51
Speaker 12: What that means is she's been doted upon and she's
21:54
Speaker 12: had everything given to her at times in her life
21:58
Speaker 12: that she shouldn't have had.
22:00
Speaker 1: Whoa wait a minute, is this her standing in front
22:02
Speaker 1: of a Porsche? Look at those pictures I sent you, Jackie.
22:05
Speaker 1: Here is that her in front of a Porsche? Does Stephano?
22:08
Speaker 1: Does she drive a Porsche?
22:10
Speaker 3: I have no idea what you drove.
22:12
Speaker 1: Well, I'm looking right out a picture and she's got
22:15
Speaker 1: car key it looks like car keys in her hands,
22:17
Speaker 1: and she's pointing toward a Porsche.
22:18
Speaker 5: I mean, I think all you really need to look at,
22:20
Speaker 5: right is she posted a five hundred thousand dollars bail,
22:24
Speaker 5: which is ten times more than the average American family
22:26
Speaker 5: makes in a year to avoid jal for a month.
22:30
Speaker 5: I'd be curious to see how much her family has
22:32
Speaker 5: donated to the soup kitchen that my grandmother went to
22:36
Speaker 5: that she was murdered across the street front.
22:38
Speaker 1: Guys, you're hearing the voice of Barbara's grandson, who was
22:43
Speaker 1: with her to the end, who was holding her hand
22:48
Speaker 1: when she went to heaven because of this woman drunk
22:54
Speaker 1: high on drugs with a silver spoon still clinched between
22:58
Speaker 1: her teeth for no reason, angry because she was cut
23:03
Speaker 1: off drinking in the park and takes it out on
23:07
Speaker 1: an eighty.
23:07
Speaker 2: Seven year old woman. And you heard ajsay that's about
23:12
Speaker 2: as much as she weighed. She didn't go shove a.
23:14
Speaker 1: Three hundred pounds musclebound guy that just left the gym.
23:19
Speaker 2: She picked on an eighty seven year old.
23:22
Speaker 1: Literally, little old lady, a little old lady like my mother.
23:28
Speaker 1: Oh oh hgbl No, this woman does not need a
23:33
Speaker 1: sweetheart plea deal. Hey doctor, Angie, what were you saying
23:37
Speaker 1: before somebody very rudely cut you off? Oh it was me, Sorry,
23:41
Speaker 1: go ahead, what were you saying me?
23:42
Speaker 12: See this people should listen to this story and see
23:49
Speaker 12: and think about what privilege and saving your kids from
23:54
Speaker 12: things and not showing your kid's consequences. This is what
23:58
Speaker 12: it leads to. This is the kind of behavior.
24:02
Speaker 7: At least too.
24:03
Speaker 12: And I want to point out something else. Everyone is
24:05
Speaker 12: stating that she was drunk and high.
24:08
Speaker 7: How do we know that, Nancy.
24:10
Speaker 12: She might drink like this on a regular basis. She
24:13
Speaker 12: might not have been touched face by this alcohol. She
24:16
Speaker 12: wasn't drunk like I would be drunk if I had
24:19
Speaker 12: two glasses of wine. Okay, she may do this every day,
24:24
Speaker 12: So let's not say she was drunk because we don't
24:26
Speaker 12: know that. Because as you said, as you pointed out,
24:30
Speaker 12: she knew exactly what to do after this happened. Okay,
24:35
Speaker 12: she knew exactly what to do.
24:37
Speaker 1: According to reports, she was told the part was closing
24:40
Speaker 1: and she had to quit drinking and leave. She became enraged,
24:45
Speaker 1: and she charged Barbara Gustern on the street, shoving the
24:51
Speaker 1: eighty seven year old lady to the ground and calling
24:55
Speaker 1: your grandmother a bit.
24:58
Speaker 2: She called your your grandmother a bitch? Why why did
25:04
Speaker 2: she do that?
25:05
Speaker 1: And then stood there and watched as an ambulance clue
25:10
Speaker 1: took your grandma away with blood seeping from her head,
25:16
Speaker 1: and now then spending the next two weeks hiding and
25:20
Speaker 1: covering her trail, and now she wants leniency. Joseph Jack
25:27
Speaker 1: Alone joining me, former NYPD sergeant, author of the Cold
25:31
Speaker 1: Case Handbook and the Criminal Investigative Function, the Guide for
25:36
Speaker 1: a New Investigator's fourth edition. That means it's been published
25:40
Speaker 1: three times before. Joseph, thank you for being with us.
25:44
Speaker 1: This is your backyard. What do you have to say
25:47
Speaker 1: about prosecutors allegedly offering her a sweetheart deal?
25:50
Speaker 13: Well, it's quite interesting because I look at it from
25:53
Speaker 13: the law enforcement perspective that you could have probably added
25:55
Speaker 13: on some charges. I mean, when you choose an eighty
25:58
Speaker 13: seven year old statutes in New York City, that you
26:01
Speaker 13: could even make a claim that they could have been
26:05
Speaker 13: even a hate crime. So, you know, shell she called
26:09
Speaker 13: them her name. That's something that you have to, you know,
26:12
Speaker 13: to look further into. I mean, listen, prosecutors and defense
26:16
Speaker 13: attorneys do what they do, right, So prosecutors most of
26:19
Speaker 13: the cases that they leave them out, they rarely go
26:21
Speaker 13: to trial. And I'm sure I know you have a
26:23
Speaker 13: lawyer on here the panel today and I'm sure he
26:25
Speaker 13: would agree with me on that, because you can't put
26:27
Speaker 13: every case in.
26:28
Speaker 5: Front of a jury.
26:29
Speaker 13: But you know, we have to look at the and
26:31
Speaker 13: focus on what you do have. And the investigators did
26:34
Speaker 13: a great job here, you know, putting these things together
26:37
Speaker 13: with video surveillance, cell phone records, they might even have.
26:40
Speaker 5: Been Internet records.
26:41
Speaker 13: Right, we know that the phone was found at the
26:43
Speaker 13: ant house, Will probably fainted. They followed her throughout the
26:47
Speaker 13: entire system on the street through video surveillance. So it
26:50
Speaker 13: goes to show you that painstaking detail to what the
26:54
Speaker 13: detectives had to go through was was pretty amazing when
26:57
Speaker 13: they when you think about it.
26:58
Speaker 1: They put together a heck of a And my question
27:01
Speaker 1: is why plead it out?
27:03
Speaker 2: Take this thing to trial?
27:05
Speaker 1: Get the max on this woman who shoves an eighty
27:09
Speaker 1: seven year old grandmother to the ground and call her
27:13
Speaker 1: a bitch, then stand by and watch it be taken
27:16
Speaker 1: away in an ambulance instead of focusing on her, focusing
27:19
Speaker 1: on hiding for the next two weeks until one of
27:22
Speaker 1: her friends turn her in after spotting her on TV
27:27
Speaker 1: seeing that subway, seeing the video of her. But I
27:32
Speaker 1: want you to hear more about what happened the night
27:36
Speaker 1: of the incident. Take a listen hour cut thirteen. Our
27:39
Speaker 1: friends at Inside Edition.
27:41
Speaker 9: We're learning more about the young woman accused of an
27:44
Speaker 9: unspeakable crime, shoving an elderly lady to her death for
27:49
Speaker 9: no reason.
27:50
Speaker 2: Police say.
27:51
Speaker 9: Six minutes after the unprovoked attack, the suspect, twenty six
27:55
Speaker 9: year old Lauren Pezienza, walked back to the scene and
27:58
Speaker 9: watched an ambulance take away the elderly woman, eighty seven
28:02
Speaker 9: year old Barbara Gustern, a renowned singing coach. The suspect's
28:06
Speaker 9: high powered lawyer, Arthur Idallas, spoke to reporters after her
28:09
Speaker 9: arraignment and previewed what may be her defense.
28:13
Speaker 1: Whether it was a push, or whether it was a shove,
28:15
Speaker 1: or whether it was a kick, or whether someone tripped.
28:18
Speaker 2: The evidence is not very solid on.
28:19
Speaker 13: That at all.
28:20
Speaker 2: Police say.
28:21
Speaker 9: The victim remained conscious long enough to tell them her assailant,
28:24
Speaker 9: who she had never met before, crossed the street, then
28:27
Speaker 9: called her the b word and pushed her as hard
28:31
Speaker 9: as she had ever been hit in her life.
28:33
Speaker 1: Can you imagine calling your mother or your grandmother a bitch?
28:39
Speaker 1: Can you even imagine that? I mean aj mayor Gustern,
28:44
Speaker 1: This is Barbara Gustern's grandson, who stayed with her till
28:49
Speaker 1: the end. I just lost every chance of me believing
28:54
Speaker 1: anything the defense said is over by saying the word
28:59
Speaker 1: maybe she tripped the ass. Your grandmother did not trip.
29:05
Speaker 1: Nobody tripped.
29:06
Speaker 2: What were her words to you about how hard she
29:10
Speaker 2: was shoved?
29:11
Speaker 5: Aj, I actually wasn't present when I heard those words.
29:15
Speaker 5: She got back to her building after the attack, and
29:20
Speaker 5: the friends she was rehearsing with met her in the
29:22
Speaker 5: lobby and they were the one who heard her say
29:25
Speaker 5: that as she was called the B word and shoved
29:31
Speaker 5: as hard as she ever was in her life. And
29:33
Speaker 5: then she shortly lost consciousness when she got in the ambulance,
29:37
Speaker 5: and then I flew out the very next morning, and
29:40
Speaker 5: I didn't see her until I got in the hospital.
29:45
Speaker 5: The last time I talked to her was the.
29:47
Speaker 2: Monday of that week.
29:51
Speaker 5: And yeah, I've seen it, mister Idalla say other things
29:58
Speaker 5: like complying my grandmother had some kind of illness or disability,
30:03
Speaker 5: which is just ridiculous. At her age, she was still
30:06
Speaker 5: teaching voice all day, going out to shows. I mean,
30:11
Speaker 5: she was comfortable enough to go out at night alone
30:15
Speaker 5: and walk to the show she was on her way
30:18
Speaker 5: to when she was when she was killed. That's how
30:22
Speaker 5: much she loved the city, and that's how much she
30:24
Speaker 5: trusted the city, And that's how capable she was.
30:27
Speaker 2: Was she was on her way to see a show.
30:28
Speaker 2: What was she saying?
30:30
Speaker 5: One of her students shows? She was She was on
30:32
Speaker 5: her way to see one of her students, and she
30:36
Speaker 5: was going to talk with another student about a book
30:38
Speaker 5: she was she was creating at that show.
30:55
Speaker 1: Time Stories with Nancy Grace. Well, in the last hours,
30:59
Speaker 1: we learned Sweetheart deal goes down. She's only sent uced
31:02
Speaker 1: to eight years. You know what she'll serve on that
31:04
Speaker 1: probably two yeah, probably two years. What's amazing. Just to
31:08
Speaker 1: top it all off, the poisonous icing on the sour cake,
31:13
Speaker 1: she actually said, and her lawyer said that she was overcharged.
31:17
Speaker 2: What I mean.
31:18
Speaker 1: People all the way back at school said she was
31:20
Speaker 1: nothing but trouble, the poster child for pure privilege. According
31:27
Speaker 1: to a former classmate, never suffered any consequences, enabled by
31:31
Speaker 1: parents who got her out of everything, But she called
31:34
Speaker 1: her own parents stupid and basic. That would break my
31:38
Speaker 1: heart if one of my twins called me stupid and basic.
31:44
Speaker 1: Of course it may be true, but for them to
31:46
Speaker 1: say it. One acquaintance says that she mocked people, made
31:53
Speaker 1: fun of fat people, made fun of deaf people, anybody.
31:57
Speaker 1: I mean this what a piece of work. But how
32:01
Speaker 1: did she get a sweetheart sentence? Let's review the facts
32:04
Speaker 1: as we know them now eight years man, I'm guarant
32:09
Speaker 1: I'm telling you she'll be out of too. Let's go
32:10
Speaker 1: to doctor Michael Boden, the former chief medical Examiner in
32:13
Speaker 1: New York. Doctor bod what happened to Barbara? She was fine, well,
32:19
Speaker 1: not fine, but she was had her wits about her,
32:24
Speaker 1: was speaking, described to her student what happened, that she
32:28
Speaker 1: was shoved, herd that she's ever been shoved in her life,
32:30
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden she seemingly whacked out and
32:34
Speaker 1: then died.
32:35
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's a good question. Firstly, Nancy, I don't think
32:41
Speaker 6: she was shoved. She was struck very hard in the back.
32:44
Speaker 6: And I think there's a difference between somebody shoving somebody
32:46
Speaker 6: in a subway and just being whacked very hard in
32:50
Speaker 6: the back, which is as Aja said, is what she
32:55
Speaker 6: said happened to her. And then when she fell down
32:59
Speaker 6: and struck her head. And remember Liam Neeson's.
33:03
Speaker 2: Wife, Natasha Richardson.
33:05
Speaker 6: Right, Natasha Richardson, when she skied down and fell down,
33:09
Speaker 6: and they called it an ambulance and she said she
33:11
Speaker 6: felt fine. There's one specific type of head injury, a
33:17
Speaker 6: tailor of a little artery middleman in jeal artery that
33:21
Speaker 6: when a fall of cars it can get ruptured, but
33:25
Speaker 6: the patient doesn't feel anything for as the bleeding comes
33:30
Speaker 6: from it, and many hours later or a day later,
33:33
Speaker 6: the bleeding accumulates to such an extent that it compresses
33:38
Speaker 6: the brain and causes the person.
33:40
Speaker 2: Hey, right, whit whit?
33:41
Speaker 7: Why?
33:41
Speaker 1: Doctor Biden, we're not except for doctor Angel Arnold, who's
33:45
Speaker 1: not only an MBI, but she's a psychiatrist as well.
33:48
Speaker 1: You're anlin warp speed for all of us. What First
33:52
Speaker 1: of all, what artery are you talking about?
33:55
Speaker 6: The metal middle meningeal artery. It's a little very small
34:00
Speaker 6: that goes to the where is it on your head?
34:04
Speaker 2: Is it above your ear? Near your temple?
34:05
Speaker 6: You got it? That's just from where it is. It
34:08
Speaker 6: comes through a little opening in the skull just behind
34:13
Speaker 6: the ear. It doesn't heal by itself. It keeps bleeding slowly,
34:19
Speaker 6: and that's why the person is okay for a while.
34:22
Speaker 6: And while she described what happened, and then it just
34:28
Speaker 6: causes a person to gradually go to sleep and lose consciousness.
34:32
Speaker 6: There's no pain with it. She doesn't have any pain.
34:35
Speaker 1: To Tony di Stefano, joining us on News Day, Tony,
34:40
Speaker 1: the defense is also arguing that the so called Cesspool Princess,
34:46
Speaker 1: Lauren Pasienza, has been overcharged.
34:52
Speaker 2: I don't understand why she's not charged with.
34:55
Speaker 1: A hate crime with enhanced penalties, because when you commit
35:00
Speaker 1: a violent crime on an elder, typically in most jurisdictions,
35:05
Speaker 1: you get enhanced or greater sentences behind bars, and they're
35:09
Speaker 1: looking at a sweetheart deal.
35:11
Speaker 2: What's going on up there?
35:12
Speaker 3: Well, I'm wondering. You know, Ourdalla is trying to basically
35:17
Speaker 3: diminish the intent to cause injury, the element of first
35:21
Speaker 3: degree manslaughter. That's why they're arguing about the intoxication, the
35:26
Speaker 3: drug use, etc.
35:27
Speaker 2: Okay, you're actually making my head hurt, Tony.
35:29
Speaker 3: Why is it making your head hurt?
35:31
Speaker 1: The law presumes, and jump in if I'm wrong, anybody
35:33
Speaker 1: on the panel. The law presumes you intend the natural
35:37
Speaker 1: consequence of your act. You shove literally a little old
35:41
Speaker 1: lady to the pavement as she hits her head. What
35:46
Speaker 1: do you think is going to happen.
35:48
Speaker 3: There is the element of intent, but there also is
35:51
Speaker 3: the element of recklessness in the law. They're different. If
35:55
Speaker 3: you intend. If she intended to shove Barbara Gustern to
36:00
Speaker 3: cause her injury, that's a conscious decision. If she did
36:04
Speaker 3: so recklessly, that's another element.
36:07
Speaker 2: Whoa, whoa, whoa.
36:08
Speaker 1: Wait wait, Tony, there's something called the abandoned and malignant heart,
36:13
Speaker 1: which means you are so reckless. For instance, if I
36:16
Speaker 1: got my minivan and Florida to ninety mph and then
36:21
Speaker 1: drove through a street market and I just happened to
36:25
Speaker 1: plow down four or five people and they died, that's
36:28
Speaker 1: still murder with an abandoned and malignant heart. Where are you,
36:34
Speaker 1: Selle Nutt, you're the lawyer on the panel today, jump in, man.
36:38
Speaker 2: Help me with Tony de Stefano. He obviously knows the
36:41
Speaker 2: law better than you, and I said, I need you.
36:44
Speaker 6: Absolute.
36:45
Speaker 5: This is the kicker to me.
36:47
Speaker 7: When she shoves this lady and then calls her a
36:52
Speaker 7: bitch right after that, she's intending. That is clear evidence
36:57
Speaker 7: she is intending to seriously injured this lady. That shows
37:01
Speaker 7: her intent right there on her war stay on the
37:04
Speaker 7: prosecution's war stay. She's guilty of man one. Under New
37:08
Speaker 7: York Pedal Code, she could possibly be charged with a
37:11
Speaker 7: murder charge. To say that she is overcharged is sick.
37:15
Speaker 2: No way, no way.
37:17
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut sixteen. Who is this woman?
37:22
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends a crime online.
37:24
Speaker 4: After graduating high school in twenty thirteen, Lauren Pozienza attended
37:28
Speaker 4: the Fashion Institute of Technology in Manhattan and worked as
37:32
Speaker 4: an events coordinator for a high end French furniture company.
37:35
Speaker 4: She was seen gallivanting around town attending swanky parties in
37:39
Speaker 4: our gallery openings before she resigned her position last December,
37:42
Speaker 4: but neighbors at the upscale Astoria condo where she lives
37:46
Speaker 4: with her fiance said she wasn't all smiles at home.
37:49
Speaker 4: Law enforcement sources say that Pasienza was aknown nuisance in
37:53
Speaker 4: the shore Towers and had previously called cops on her neighbors.
37:57
Speaker 4: A woman who lives in the building says there was
37:59
Speaker 4: allys an issue with her and someone in the building.
38:02
Speaker 4: It's always like something with that lady. Another man who
38:05
Speaker 4: also lives in the building described her as definitely not
38:09
Speaker 4: the best tenant.
38:09
Speaker 1: So Doctor Auntie Arnold. We've heard about anger management, that
38:15
Speaker 1: she had been a bully since she was in grade school.
38:20
Speaker 1: What does this all mean, doctor Angie Nansie.
38:23
Speaker 12: This goes way beyond anger management. Let's just point out.
38:31
Speaker 12: I'm just going to say this, Okay, people develop very
38:38
Speaker 12: bad personality disorders starting it infancy. As a matter of fact,
38:42
Speaker 12: we know that it starts an infancy when you're not
38:47
Speaker 12: treated correctly in infancy. That's how serial killers develop. Okay,
38:53
Speaker 12: I think that she's going to be a case study
38:57
Speaker 12: for what happens to children.
38:58
Speaker 1: You know, I really appreciate you going all the way
39:01
Speaker 1: back to her infancy. But let me play a clip
39:04
Speaker 1: of her, the so called Sayspool princess, mocking the death
39:10
Speaker 1: in her adulthood.
39:12
Speaker 2: Listen, she may, she may please. I don't want to
39:28
Speaker 2: hear any more of it.
39:30
Speaker 1: That's who we're talking about, as an adult, mocking the deaf.
39:35
Speaker 2: Aj mayor Gustern. What is your message.
39:40
Speaker 5: Blorn in particular, Recognize how lucky you are, right, Recognize
39:45
Speaker 5: that you could have got murder, you could have got
39:48
Speaker 5: hate crime. Your parents could have gotten in trouble for
39:51
Speaker 5: harboring you, all right, recognize these things.
39:55
Speaker 2: Wow, there's so much better of a person than they
39:58
Speaker 2: go ahead.
39:58
Speaker 5: And you know, from the very beginning she had she
40:03
Speaker 5: had a very good chance of having me potentially be
40:07
Speaker 5: in her corner. Right, if she would have not run,
40:12
Speaker 5: if she would have stayed and been like this was
40:15
Speaker 5: me right, like I did this, like the day she
40:19
Speaker 5: was watching them take her away, right, I might I
40:23
Speaker 5: might have been supportive of her. Instead, she's she's pushed
40:28
Speaker 5: the trial back as much as she can. She's she's
40:30
Speaker 5: done everything in the playbook to draw this out and
40:34
Speaker 5: get the minimum time possible. I'm not convinced that she
40:42
Speaker 5: recognizes truly what she's even done.
40:44
Speaker 1: Well, I guess it's a rough cut at justice. But
40:48
Speaker 1: I've got a funny feeling we haven't heard the last
40:50
Speaker 1: of the Cesspool Princess Lauren Pazienza. Our prayers with Barbara
40:56
Speaker 1: Mayor Gustern, I'm sure in heaven now, and for her family,
41:02
Speaker 1: who has a life sentence without her.