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Graeme Bell on Full-time Family Overlanding · The Overland Journal Podcast

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the Overland Journal podcast. I am
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: your host, Scott Brady, and I am here with a
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: longtime friend, one of the most prolific Overlanders on the planet,
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: someone that so many of us look up to, Graham Bell.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being on the podcast today.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Graham, thanks for having me, Scott, good to be back.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: And special thanks to GTF Overland for supporting this week's podcast.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: GTF Overland was founded on the belief that everyone should
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: be able to get to the outside, whether you're a
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: retiree roaming the earth, having an existential crisis, or a
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: young single mother looking to give your kids new experiences outdoors,
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: or somewhere in between, serving dealers and adventures. Since twenty seventeen,
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  Speaker 1: you can visit GTF Overland in Long Beach, California, as
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: well as online at g TFO B R L A
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: n D dot com. Thanks again, GTFO. The first time
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: that we talk, we were trying to get together in
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: South Africa when the pandemic hit and you were stuck
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: in one part of Africa and I was stuck in
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: the other. So we actually ended up doing the first
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: interview on zoom. It was the first time we'd ever
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: done that, and that was episode number seventeen for those
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: who'd like to go back in time a little bit.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: But there has been a whole lot of living that
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: you and your family have done since then. You've gotten
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: a lot more involved with Overland Journal and Expedition Portal.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: So for those that are listening, if you want to
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: find out more about what Graham and his family are
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: up to, check that out on the portal and and
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: Overland Journal. So where is your family at?
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  Speaker 3: Now?
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  Speaker 1: You're here in Prescott, But where is your family at
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: when you flew out.
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  Speaker 2: There enjoying the sunshine and go to Lajarrea join the
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: space without.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: Me to the use up resources when you leave. Because
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  Speaker 1: you guys spend every day just about twenty four hours
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  Speaker 1: a day together. We've talked a little bit about how
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  Speaker 1: you guys find your moments of space and stillness and
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: that kind of thing. But how does it feel for
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: you to leave them on a plane and to go
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: away I kind of going on business trip, And then
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  Speaker 1: how does it feel for them? Have they shared with
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  Speaker 1: you what they're up to and how that dynam changes
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: when Dad's gone.
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  Speaker 2: We we're talking about it when it's the last time
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  Speaker 2: that we were apart more than a couple of days,
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  Speaker 2: and it was years ago, three years ago. It's it's
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  Speaker 2: very strange. Yeah, there's such a tight unit. We spent
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  Speaker 2: every single day in a camp camp site on the
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  Speaker 2: beach in the mountain, always within sight usually, So it
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  Speaker 2: was weird. And I'm used to do visa doing all
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  Speaker 2: the bureaucratic stuff.
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  Speaker 1: You can try to manage yourself, right, I had to do,
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  Speaker 1: but I'm terrible at that. I'm terrible at that, constantly
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  Speaker 1: failing at my own self management.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, I used to her doing all that kind of stuff,
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  Speaker 2: So it's good for me to realize I can actually
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  Speaker 2: get on a plane with that.
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  Speaker 1: Did she have you, you know, like you had your
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  Speaker 1: minder and she's like, now call me when you land
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: and you have a little sign waiting for you.
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  Speaker 2: Step by step. Now, this is what happens when you
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: get to the now, this is what happens when you
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: check in.
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  Speaker 1: She's wonderful, Yeah, she is. It's incredible. And she was
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  Speaker 1: interviewed on the podcast by Ashley and that that was
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: one of well, it is my favorite episode that we've
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: ever done. Well, I'd never had the chance to just
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: like a regular listener. Turn on my you know, iPhone,
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: and there's a new episode from the Overland Journal podcast.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: I didn't hear it, and when it was first done,
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: and I never audited the episode, I didn't listen to it.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: So I got to just turn it on and listen
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: to it while I was driving to the sailboat, and
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  Speaker 1: I just found myself laughing out loud and thoroughly enjoying.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: We need more more Ashley and more Luisa unless me,
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: I think, so, those two are so wonderful together.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I was here, but you lucked me out. Ah,
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  Speaker 3: that's right, that's right. That was the rule. That was
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  Speaker 3: the rule. You weren't allowed to be around. I remembered
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: that neither of us were. We were banished, banished deservedly.
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  Speaker 3: So yeah, you know, it's interesting because there are so
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  Speaker 3: few parents in the modern world, and if you think
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  Speaker 3: about in a first world country that have the opportunity
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  Speaker 3: to be with their family that much, and you're one
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  Speaker 3: of the few that were able to do that, how
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  Speaker 3: has that in your mind changed the course of your life.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, when you look back on because your kids
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  Speaker 3: are getting close to being adults. I mean, Eland's already
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  Speaker 3: an adult. And you're dog, how old your.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: Daughter eighteen in September?
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  Speaker 1: Okay, so you have two adults now and you've had
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  Speaker 1: eighteen years of just about every single day with them.
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  Speaker 1: When you look back, what do you what do you
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  Speaker 1: feel about that? What comes to mind? What comes to
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  Speaker 1: your heart after spending all that time with your kids?
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  Speaker 2: I want more?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, you don't want to let them go.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. And the early days when we were on the road,
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  Speaker 2: it was it was a lot of hardcore travel. It
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: was it was tough days, tough nights, tough roads of locations,
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  Speaker 2: and it was tough for them and we did as
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  Speaker 2: much as we could to mitigate that to make them comfortable.
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  Speaker 2: And it's a very bit part of it.
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  Speaker 1: And you guys were living in a rooftand at the time.
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  Speaker 2: Right for four years, was a roof, but it became
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  Speaker 2: a nest. I mean it is already a nest, but
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: it became like this really homely little place. And then
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  Speaker 2: you know, the mornings were filled with laughter, and sure,
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  Speaker 2: we just got into a routine and we just just
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  Speaker 2: know each other. We know each other's buttons, We know
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  Speaker 2: what to do, and that's important. They're knowing what to do.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I look back at it and I think, man,
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  Speaker 2: I wish I'd spend more time with them doing this
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  Speaker 2: or doing that. I mean every parent has regrets, yeah,
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: when they look back and go, but at least I
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: mean sometimes I just sit and smile because my regrets are.
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  Speaker 2: I can't say I wish I spent more time with
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: them because you did. It's not possible. It's simply not possible.
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  Speaker 2: And I'm very proud of who they becomes as people's
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: They're fantastic.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're fantastic. So they really are. I mean just
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: to watch them in the booth last year and interacting
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: with the public and Keelan just he's just so excited
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: as to talk with people and to share his story
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: and he's just this gentle giant. So it is yeah,
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  Speaker 1: which is beautiful. I mean, that's all you could ask
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: for for your kids, is that they turn out okay.
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  Speaker 2: And he's better than okay.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, of course, of course, Yeah, that's exceptional. They're in Guadalajara,
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: and I know that you're gonna have a hard time
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: talking about this, but you're not driving a land Rover
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: right now.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: No, I don't know how to feel about it.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: I mean, you're I mean, I noticed that there's no
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: grease under your fingernails. You seem so much more relaxed,
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: yet more disposably income.
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  Speaker 2: Right, more time to think about other things.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: Of course we're joking. I mean, land rovers are absolutely
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: one gramm, and I are going to spend some time
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: on a podcast about Defender soon. But I guess the
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: question for me is, you made several rapid changes to
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: your situation with the truck. You went from living in
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: a roof tent on top of the vehicle to building
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: a camper just a few years ago. Twenty eighteen, was
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: it when you built the camper?
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: Twenty seventeen?
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  Speaker 1: Seventeen? Okay, so twenty seventeen you built a camper for
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: the Defender and now you're in a full size truck
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: with a camper. Talk a little bit about what has
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: been the upsides of those changes, and then what's been
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  Speaker 1: the compromises that you've encountered.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: Oh, in between the two, we had an old range rover.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: That's right. Well, yeah, we can talk about that too,
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: because it's kind of bringing you guys back to old school.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, so that was that was great because we got
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: to see that the differences are us between a range
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: river with a little roof tent and an awning with
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: walls and sleeping on the ground. Sure in a swamp
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: in Georgia, skunks on your labin.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: Love with Georgia, No, of course, beautiful place.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, wonderful, but it was. It was awesome to go
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  Speaker 2: from that into the number. Yeah, the control, hydraulic love
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: roof and pack in space and the storage and the
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: share that works, and the reliable Cummins engine. I'm struggling
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: to find down size to Yeah, I'm struggling.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: And I think where so many of us are encountering that.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: I had never owned a full sized truck, and then
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: I went right into a you know, turbo diesel full
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: sized GMC, and by about three months in, I thought, well,
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: now I understand why so many millions of people own
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: these things, right, Because they're other than trying to find
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: a parking spot, which has been something that I recognize
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: as a compromise, and probably some of the more technical trails,
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: but the majority of the trails that I've done, I'm surprised.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: I'm impressed that it's just going to do it just fine.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: The overall comfort and capability of these full sized trucks
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: is impressive.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: It is, and the long wheelbase is actually advantageous. I
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: remember Kingsley Holgate, a famous South African explorer. Minshure he
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: deserves a lot more recognition than the States. The money.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: He hasn't around the world, but he's a man that's
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: been around around Africa more than anyone. And of the
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: three defenders in nine ten and one thirty one thirty
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: he said was his favorite because it was the most
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: capable for our type of overlanding.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: For sure.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: You know, when you're doing trails and stuff like that,
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: it's you want to have a shorter wheelbase, et cetera.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: But the longer wheelbase it reads the track differently. When
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: you're in mud, et cetera. The wheelbase it's longer, it
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: grabs further.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: It gives you sure, especially climbing descending much more stable.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: Right, It gives you a bit of stretch, and then
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: so you've got I reckon the vehicle that we got to.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: Twenty five hundred is the number on the twenty five
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: hundred Dodge Ram two thousand and six. With the Covens engine,
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: I could pretty much take that ninety percent of the
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: places I went with around the world to Defend. I
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: wouldn't do the seven hundred kilometers on the beach in
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: Brazil that we did simply because it's it's a different creature,
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: and I go. I gained a lot of confidence with
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: it with sand driving, which I thought would be it's nemesis.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: Sure in bar and I was basically surprised. Yeah, maybe
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: just air the tires down a bit more. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: I tested it without even airing darnt.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: Oh wow.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: In the beginning, I was like, Okay, if I'm going
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: to get stuck, I've got a couple of ex tracks. Sure,
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: let's see what happens. It's got so much power, it's
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: got so much talks. I've got front and rear lockers.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: Wow, that's a new thing for you because you don't
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: have that on the Defender. It's the same and great
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: driving skall magic magic button right, the locker button right. Yeah,
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: with that and your your broad skills is a driver, right.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: I'm pitrified of getting stuck. I know why because my
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: wife gets really tasty and.
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no that makes sense. So there's other consequences to
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: just being stuck. For me, I used to always feel
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: embarrassed when I got stuck, like I'm not supposed to.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: I work so hard at my craft and it's my job,
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: and I should never get stuck. And I realized that
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: was such a foolish approach that the more we get stuck,
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: the more we're learning, the more we're pushing the vehicle,
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: and we're more we're understanding how to be proficient at recovery.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: So now I've learned to embrace it. But I can
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: see why there might be other consequences because the other
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: people in the vehicle are realizing, like we're stuck, the
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: tide is rising. It feels like the consequences are much higher.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: Right, And we always travel soilo, Yeah, sure, when we
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: are traveling, when we cross the Amazon, I would be
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: very careful to take my time, say it's the situation. Sure,
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: just my driving stall accordingly, even be patient and wait
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: for someone else to come along and see what they
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: did wrong, right, right? And I never got stuck. I
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: mean that the land river was so full of mud
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: you couldn't see out the windows. Did you do the
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: B twenty nine road, No, we crossed. We crossed from Horizonne.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: I'm laying. When you come down through Venezuela, okay, drop
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: down and you Bulvish to bush. We went to the
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: top of the Amazon to from Linden to let them
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: British Guiana.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: That's a very remote area right, right, but that.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: Has carnivorous butterflies that kind of gets you worried when
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: they when the cute things are eating flesh. I'm not
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: going to make a mistake. Yeah, And then we went
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: through from Brench Guiana into Brazil and then down to
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: Maccapie again through the jungle, and then we're on the
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: Amazon River for three days.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: Incredible on a ferry with the vehicle right on the Wow.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was cool.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: That win an incredible experience. That would be right. So
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: what are you You're not really finding much downside then
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: with the folks.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think the biggest problem is as always
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: is me. Right. So you guys grew up with sized vehicles. Sure,
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: so it's a new thing to drive, right, I'm not
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: used to that width and the length. It's say, for instance,
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: in Mexico, Baha, you've got the skinny roads. Yeah, Max
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: one is very narrow, right, with a two inch shoulder
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: sure if you're lucky, and a six foot drop off
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: and trucks coming the other way.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, that's terrifying.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: And yeah, I have to get used to the width,
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: and I'm always watching my right hand mirror and just
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: seeing where that line is in relation to the tires. Sure,
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: but it's it's been a while now and I'm getting
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: used to it and I'm getting better at it. The
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: other drawback would be le Hay for instance. You know,
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: small tiny little roads and trying to figure a way
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: around there without was giving someone a reason to give
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: you a nice beach air like a shirting a car
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: or all. But then you get to the other you
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: go through like Millahane, you get to the other side
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: and here's some guy with a freaking Class A or
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: you know, fifth way or you're not true, there's only
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: one way, and how did he do that? Stressing about
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: this little nimble right now? And that really has been
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: the limitation. It surprised me how effective throw on the
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: trails on the beach. Yeah, I'm struggling to find. And
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: the fuel consumption is great? Is it so alert to
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: the defenders in field consumption? Yeah? When I put the
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: big fat box on the back of the defender, are
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: you sure twenty yard mpg? And I went down to
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: sixteen yeah, sure, And the engine is getting older older,
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: but the number I get an average about fifteen mpg
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: that's running the aircon.
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: Sure, so I'm getting older. This power, I'm getting, all
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: this space, I'm getting all this touch wood reliability.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: Sure? Is that why you have a wood bracelet on?
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: You can constantly you you are in a land Rover
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: on or you just constantly be touching wood.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: There, I'll tell you the story. I'll tell you the
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: story quick. I'm not superstitious about much when it comes
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: to the lander. I don't mind being a little bit superstitious.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: If it helps, whatever you can do.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: Sure. And I used to actually for years carried a
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: little piece of wood. It was ridiculous. I would transfer
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: it from my trousers to trouser and you know, people
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: say lander, I'll give it a rub.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: Ye.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: And we're in Bargentina and the kids found a broken
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: wooden necklace and then they made it into a bangle
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: for me and say, well, nowadays you don't you don't
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: have to get you some wood in your pocket. And
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: that's just become kind of our trademark, like yeah, because
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: it's all about how's the landro.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: Well? And if I remember correctly you went for the
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: vast majority of your travels in the one thirty were
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: fairly problem free. And I've heard that where the TD
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: five was that it was very reliable, is considered.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: Very reliable, you know, the purest. They hated the ECU,
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: and I still I don't get that anymore, and I
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: think just people like us doing the troubles we have
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: with the TD five, it really proves for a lot
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: of a lot of naysays which are actually capable. Of
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: the problems I had were wheel bearings, tires, oil cooler.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: Usually the steering system gives some trouble. Nothing on, no
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: leaks or anything. Now I'm one of the tricks I learned. Ever,
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: turn your wheels when you're stationed, Never rest your foot
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: on the clutch, never rest your hand on the gear. Leave.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: There's a bunch of these little habits that you can
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: do which over time helped to preserve these these systems.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: Steering putting almuch so much pressure, and if you're standing
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: still and turning the wheels, sure, unless you're on whatever.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I know the steering hasn't been bad, and
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: I'm really good at just because I'm paranoid of breaking down.
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: I maintain her as well as possible, and I and
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: my butt knows every little shake and bump and yeah
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: that no, that's a wheelbaring well, Now that's the steering
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: time peroa, that's a tire that's a bit flat, or
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: yeah sure, but now we maintained it really well.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: And where is the where is the defender?
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: Now she's in Cape Town. Is a camps out there,
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: that the storage and she's in a container. And the
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: beauty of that is I decided I want her anywhere
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: in the world. I literally send the guy email, I'll
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: give him a bunch of cash and then wait two
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: months and there she'll be sure already loaded. Yeah, with
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: all my personal effects in there everything. So that's that's
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: really convenient for us. It's really nice to have that.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: Because you were originally planning on driving up Africa. In fact,
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: the timing when we were going to meet to do
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: the podcast the first time, we were both going to
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: be driving north. I was going to go to Kenya
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: as far as Kenya and you were planning on going
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: all the way and ultimately all the way to a
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: lot of Bostock. The pandemic shut all of those borders down.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: Fairly quickly. I was shocking to see how quickly that happened.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: And then now the situations in the world with the
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: war in Ukraine Russia is certainly off the table for
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: most people. I mean, maybe they wouldn't look two sideways
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: at a South African passport. Yeah, they wouldn't.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure we could still go through THEFT borders
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: are open. Look the thing we were so you're in
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: South Africa and we were there. We there was a
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: lockdown in South Africa, correct, and we were taking the
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: pandemic seriously isolated, and we were very careful that we
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: still wanted to travel. So as soon as we saw
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: the borders were opening up, we hit the road. And
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: during the pandemic we went to we went through Mozambique.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: It was hot and we had to jump through all
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: these hoops because of the COVID tests. Sure, so we
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: couldn't just drive up to Tet and then go over
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: to Zambia or Malawi. We had to boost the main
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: jungle route and around them down to I think Bayra
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: where we could get a COVID test, and then we
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: had to shoot up to Tet and if you know, Mozambique,
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: we do. There's no such thing as shooting get us anywhere.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: And the roads were just horrendous. It was beautiful, it
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: was wonderful. We loved it and got to Tet and
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: then we had so many problems at the border getting
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: into Zambia. There the corruption just went off the hook, and.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: Then we got it. They had fewer prey right right exactly.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: It just wasn't people at the border.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: Right And so we try to get into Malawi and
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: they tried to charge us five hundred dollars or fee.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: As we turned around and left, and there were the
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: helpers were running, the runners, they were running after the
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: lander were hitting it. It was so person that we didn't
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: pay the fee. Sure, but we were very serious about
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: the pandemic. Were it's self isolated all the time. We
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: were very very careful and none of us got COVID
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: and we certainly weren't spreading it. And we went up
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: to Zambia and got to the Tanzanian border and apparent
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: that Ethiopia was not going to open up anytime soon.
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: The roots around South Sudan wasn't an option for us, right,
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: Chaibouti wasn't an option. Kenya to Saudi Arabia was an
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: option because we have now have a dog and we
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: have right hand.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: Right so we sure, yeah, yeah, because you can't get
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: into Saudi Arabia with a right hand drive.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: Right or don't people didn't people do it, but the
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: all specifically states you can't, okay, And we would think, well.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: If you got to know somebody that has can help
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: us all the.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: Tea, yeah, possibly, or just be lucky at the border. Yeah, sure,
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: I think they. Sadi's already opened up. You guys have
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: got a lot of content company we do Saudi, which
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: is fascinating. We had to move right up and say
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: is this something that we're willing to commit to to
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: really try and get through there? And then what stuck
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: in Jordan? Or how do we cross Lebanon in Syria? Yeah?
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: Other fairies running to Cyprus and then to Turkey, and
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: it was just a logistical life man, So we'd end
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: up going to Namibia. Like anyone needs an excuse to
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: go to Namibia.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: Right, It's one of the most special places on the planet. Absolutely,
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: In fact, it's one of my favorites. And I think
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: about the places that are my favorites. So you've got
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: Namibia and then you've got southern Utah and they're so
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's the red Maybe it's something about the
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: red deserts that I just really love. In fact, it's funny.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: I don't remember the guy's name, but he came up
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: to me at Overland Expo and he says, you know,
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: the one place that you talk about in every podcast
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: except for these. He could actually list of podcasts that
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: I didn't mention. It was so that I'm going to
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: say on this podcast just for him because it's been
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: so Yeah, it's funny though. It's funny how we mentioned
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: the same things over and over again. But Namibia is
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: really special. Yeah, your mind just keeps going back to it.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, and the beauty of the difference between Bibia
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: and Utah is that you have the Himba people and
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: you have wild lions, elephants have those massive expanses where
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: you could have the greatest adventure or misadventure, but at
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: the same time, in a couple of days, you could
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: be in a game lodge slipping a nice cold. Vin
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: took Bry watching the elephants at the waterhole. So I
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: really encourage people and who are nervous about international overlanding.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: I do it a lot, and I know I wrote
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: an article for Overland Journal right and again encourage people
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: fly and drive and if you want to fly and
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: drive option, which is simply superior to anything else that
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: I know of, maybe is the place to go. They've
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: got the vehicles hits at Land Cruises and it feels
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: so safe there and it's very open. A lot of
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: wild camping as well, and you.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: Can have basic experience or a safe experience. You can
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: join guides where you can have you know, exhilarating adrenaline
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: pumping experiences for sure, very close to each other and
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: the skeleton coast and right and they can pretty strup
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: incredible truly. But Tswana's right there. So I encourage people
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: a lot when I hear people say, oh, I'd love
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: to but my wife, for well, hey, this is the
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: in a place where you take your wife and she
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: cans a great time and a luxury lodge and then
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: you say, hey, you know, let's go do this and
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: then and get into it and get that feeling for
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: it and get that passion for it. It's really the
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: kind of place to go and do that. So and
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: that's was my pitch for the Namibian tourism board.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no doubt, but it's it's so valid though, it's
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: so valid. And actually the guy who came up to
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: me at Overland Expert his name is Derek. So Derek,
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: thanks for her stopping buy and saying hi, I agree
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: about and maybe yeah, really really an amazing spot. You
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: decide not to do that, you bring the truck back
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: to South Africa, and then you decide that you're going
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: to come to the US and head south again.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: Right, So we were kind of at odds of what
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: to do with ourselves. My problem is that I get
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: really achieved, even in a beautiful home. Give me a
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: week and I'm like climbing the walls and you're feral
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: now right right exactly. And for Lousa as well, and
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: the kids, the kids not so much that I mean,
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: they enjoy all the luxuries of our her. But so
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: we were staying in a place called Claimmont, which is
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: near her. Mind us probably been there. It's absolutely yeah there, Yeah,
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: you'll you'll love it. It's just west of Cape Town,
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: right on the road to Nisner.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: Okay, I know where you're at.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: It's beautiful, beautiful part of the world. And we were
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: talking to a friend of ours Chris with Tay and
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: he is a Guinness World record holder for the longest
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: motorcycle trip around the world. His wife Aaron, you should
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: get him on the podcast. Would be a really interesting guy.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: And we were chatting to him and yeah, Chris, we
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: don't know what to do with ourselves. Do we just
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: do Southern Africa again? Because everything was you know, there
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: was a lot of lockdown still happening internationally. It was
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: like a USA, Okay, what about it? And like, hey,
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: why not? Yeah, you know, we love the US hell
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: of a lot of our frenzy here, we love traveling here.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: So the idea started fermenting. It was difficult to do
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: any real planning because we didn't know if we'd actually
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: make it here. But we found that there was a
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: loophole or there was a way to do that where
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: we could go to Mexico with negative PC artists self
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: quarantine and Mexico for two weeks and then cross into
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: the States.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: I see right.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: And then when we landed, because I didn't want to
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: make any commitments on and would get anyone, you know,
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: put In went out saying, yeah, we're going to be there.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: Can I borrow a vehicle. Yeah sure, Oh shit, we
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: didn't make it.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: What Yeah?
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: Sure, Then that's how we landed up in that monkey
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: old Ranger over.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: That's so great.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: Driving from Florida to Maine in the summer and then
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: across to the West coast.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: And how was that experience going back? I mean, the
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: smallest vehicle you've ever traveled in? Actually it was.
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: It was interesting. So what are the changes I made
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: on the Defender when we got back to South africata
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: the West Africa trip was I added an awning, just
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: a simple straightforward awning with walls, which created a whole
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: new living space, sure, which got me thinking, you know,
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: for a six month trip, you don't need that much luxury. Sure,
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: you really, I mean, and it's one of the problems
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: I see is that people are too focused on the vehicles. Right,
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: old range Ranger over with a decent tent, figure, you know,
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: what more do you need? Yeah? So we spoke to
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: a couple of friends of ours and organized some gear.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: Quick Quick Pitch organized us the pop top tent and
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: a warning a Snowmasters sent us a fridge, and Old
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: Quick Pitch also gave us some wolf boxes and that
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: was it. We did the vehicle art in two days. Yeah, sure, right,
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: if we went and looking back, we could have just
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: had a big old ground tent from Walmart and said
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: all right, let's let's do this.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: And if we go, yeah, And it was fun.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: Eventually once we got out of Florida, sure, and once
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: we I think it really started like cooling down. Just Atlanta, Georgia.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: We got up into the mountains out of there and
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh, thank.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: God, and it's then those roads are beautiful there.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, but it was helped getting there, I mean
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: because we were camping near the swamps. Keilan and I
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: were on cots on the ground and it was just stifling. Absolutely,
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: it was it was to sleep and it was West
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: Africa all over there was Yeah. I was getting in
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: trouble with the kids. They were like that, why are
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: you doing this, and like not, no, where you'll be cool.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: We're going up to the mountains soon. And then it
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: really improved. Once we got up the mountains. We had
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: to do a lot of the work on the range
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: row because there were huge holes in the floor, rusted
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: and mechanically older vehicles. Sure, yeah, she had a few issues,
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: but we actually enjoyed doing that. And just kind of
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: nursing her along. And I fell in love with that
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: a roach she was. She was just gritty, Yeah style
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: c loss they do.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the Range Rivers, the Classics are incredible for that.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: They look great and they're actually really nice to drive, right.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: I remember I picked the one that I had up
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: in Houston from a friend of mine, Andy Biggs, and
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: just drove it back stock and it did some trails
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: with it, and they did some sand dunes with it,
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: and it set the crew. It was just absolutely a
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: pleasure to drive. You could see why they were so
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: you advanced for their time.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: Right, right, And it's still beautiful. Yeah, and they're still desirable, Yeah,
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: for sure. We had a funny moment. We were driving
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: on the freeway on the Interstate in Michigan, and what
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: we try to do is go all the way from
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: Florida to Maine without going on the interstate. And we
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: I think in total we did a five thousand and
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: six thousand mile trip and I think we maybe did
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: two three hundred miles of interstate across the whole race. Wow,
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: so we already got a right. We went all these
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: back roads and there was the one time we're driving
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: on the interstate and this woman pulls up in a GT.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: What was it a GT forty, the old the classic race.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: Oh sure, with the blue and the ra beautiful Ford.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah right, yeah, yeah, the Ford. And she pulls up
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: next to us and she gives me up peace sign
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: and then she puts her foot down in the windows
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: just sh I'm like, yeah, I'm actually cool. I feel
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: cool right now. All the people on the road she
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: stopped to say to us, And I put that on
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: on Facebook and everyone come back and was coming back like, oh,
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: you're like a national Lampoon's.
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: Holidays American vacation.
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: That scene of the girl the Ferrari and that that
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: kind of burst my bubble. Then the car was all right, Yeah,
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: the car was all right. I had all these giraffes
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: and elephants and that's all African decolls going up.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: Which was perfect all things considered.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: Right, It just became a bit of a bit of
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: a laugh for sure. I was like for just to
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: have fun with us, Yeah, for sure. And we'd roll
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: into to campsites and people and then we'd speaking of
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: funny accents. It just became a bit of a circus.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: But it was really good fun.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: That's great, that's great, and then how did you end
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: up deciding on taking the Nimble camper in the full
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: size truck? And special Thanks to Equipped, we're supporting today's podcast.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: More than fifteen years ago, Equipped Expedition Outfitters became the
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: first American company to import the best in breed vehicle
• 25:10
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• 25:14
  Speaker 1: they have risen to become a go to leader within
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: the adventure travel industry, continuing to deliver a diverse portfolio
• 25:21
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• 25:26
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  Speaker 1: and confidence during any adventure. Visit equipped one dot com
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: to gear up.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: I've been friends with the owner of Nimble for a
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: while now, John Turner. Yeah, we made guy. Yeah, he's
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: a very smart engineer. Shop shop shop these old teams,
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: very shop. And I'd put it out there on social
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: media in South Africa and we said we're thinking of
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: coming to America. We might need to borrow vehicles, anyone
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: got something, and he was one of the guys. Came
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: back and said, look, I've got this vehicle. We're going
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: to be using it a little bit when I'm finished
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: with it's yours. You can is it as long as
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: you want? You're not going to say no to that?
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: Right? No, I mean because especially the comfort that comes
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: with that camera.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: Right right, dropped off the range river and then I
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: went to John and picked up the number and I
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: was I was like, you can imagine it was like
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: going from a kiddy's go kart to a space ship.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right, or you probably felt like you won the lottery, right.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: The kids were so happy, Yeah, and Louser was so happy.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: It was just it was really comfortable and capable, and
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: it was liberates.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: And is it a four door, like a full full
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: size four door. Is it just the extended cab.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: Or it's the extended cab what you call a quad cab.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: It's not the crew cab, but the full rear seats
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: enough for the girls. It is big enough, okay, But
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: it was strange they actually went from the range rover
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: with that huge backshit made for executives and fat petitions,
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: to the back and they were complaining about that.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: All the other stuff made up for it, sure, and
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: having a shower and everything.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: Right, having a showered airconn and and the little lights
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: that glow underneath, and the roof that pops up. What
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: was it, a seventy gallon water tank.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Everything.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: There was a big change, and so we used the
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: vehicle for a while. I'm trying to remember where we
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: went in all over, but we went across down to
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: Alabama Hills. That's gorgeous there, right, And it was the
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: middle of winter, so we went. It was snowing, and
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: they went up to visit a friend and near Boise,
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: and then had it up up north. We're looking there
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: was a lake up there we wanted to get to.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: And we land up maybe probably yeah, and we landed
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: the road was closed up ahead, so we saw the
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: Scien saying road closed. So Luisa found a route around
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: and we went up into the mount and sunset and
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: there was two feet of virgin snow on the ground.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: I'm South African, what do I know about snow? Right,
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: very very little, And we landed up driving through that
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: snow camping that we came out the other side of
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: the mountain, dropped down back onto the main road, and
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: it was exactly where they closed the road to go
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: north to the lake. I thought we'd driven around the diversion,
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: and we just drove to it.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: Oh no, So yeah, we had an adventure though, right.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: It was awesome. I mean it was the first time
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: I'd used this vehicle in the north road, you know, environment,
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: and it was spectacular. It didn't disappoint me at all.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: And you said it has the lockers, right, I didn't
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: use the locker. Yeah, but I didn't even use the locker.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: West size tires on it. Back then it had two
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: seventy five okay, eighteen sure, yeah, so they weren't even big. Yeah,
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: looked absolutely silly on that vehicle. Sure, And now you
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: have some bigger tires on it, right, Yeah. So those
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: were the general tire the altar rains, and they did
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: it very well in the in the snow, very very well.
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: And anyway, so we came over and then we realized, well,
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: we're not going anywhere. It's midnight and there was just
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: a pull off from the side. We went and cabin
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: to the snow and ran the heater and eventually we
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: were getting hot because four people in the car sure, right, No,
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: Keenan wasn't with us. He was somewhere else at that time.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: But there is like, this is a game changer, right,
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: this is what we can camp like this and comfortably
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: in the snow, in the cold, and yeah, so we
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: really we kind of started falling in love with the vehicle.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: And then I was I was chatting to John the
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: one day, just on a messenger or whatever, and I
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: was like, you know, I could drive this thing to Russia,
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: you know, and he goes, well, why don't you? So, Okay,
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: that's a new idea, and he was quite serious about it.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: And I think it's it's good for the company to
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: see travelers like us using that kind of vehicle, and
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: it's good for their potential clients and sure to see
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: because especially for us going from something like the Defender
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: to a vehicle like that and then still having the
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: same kind of plans, ideas roots, et cetera. Sure, so
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: I think it's great for them and it's great for us.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: So it's good. It's a good idea.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: How far do you think you'll take it south?
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: It's difficult to say at the moment, because Mexico's a
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: really nice place to spend time, right, And when we
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: came up to the US the first time in twenty fifteen,
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: we kind of blasted through Central America because we were
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: trying to get to the Overland Expert. I was going
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: to launch my first book and become famous and incredibly
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: wealthy overnight. And it would have happened if it didn't snow. Well,
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: we can, that's my excuse.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: It's nice. Was that the snowm again, that.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: Was the snow of Land Expert of twenty fifteen. We
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: really didn't give Central America enough time. Okay, we definitely
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: want to go visit there a bit more. And now
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: we've got left hand dright, sure, it's no longer an issue.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: I can share Costa Rica. And we were with the Defender,
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: I couldn't go there anywhere.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: Correct.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: So I'm talking to the number and I'm seeing now
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: I know what suits them. I mean, it's John's personal virture,
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: it's his vehicle. I mean, he's got a I think
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: he's got another band, he cans whatever.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: But yeah, he's got a very cool ban black fan
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: with it like a you joint off road conversion solid ax. Yeah.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's it's not the number. It's not that's
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: try comfortential, but he's so the point is what works
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: that much works for us. I mean, if you know
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: anything about us, is we we kind of live on
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: the fly. Sure, you know, we make decisions as opportunities arise,
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: or roots change or things happen.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: And then you make a plan and we make that. Yeah,
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: so it could be if.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: They're happy and we can have enough time with it,
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: we can go down all the way down to South America.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: And but because the vehicle is so great in the cold,
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: I'd really like to do a bit of Canada, maybe
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: Alaska in late winter. Smart to be confirmed. Yeah, I'll
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: let you know what I know. I'll let you know
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: when Louisa tells me what I'm doing.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: There's an easy way to ship just roll on roll
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: off back from Panama, right, which is what I did
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: after I got to the dairy and gap. I just
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: should roll on roll off. It was easy right to
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: Houston and.
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: It's and it's much cheaper than container these days, no question.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: And the number is the way it's designed. You're not
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: getting in there. They need a souls all, yeah, for sure,
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: And I mean that's a game changer, it's right. Yeah,
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: So now you're paying a third of the cost for shipping,
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: and you can put all your stuff and then you're
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: not worry about it.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: And and I couldn't lock up the vehicle that I had,
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: but nothing was touched. I mean the Panamanians they were great.
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: You were talking to many miss yesterday, Yeah, and they
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: said was right. A few times, had no issue. Yeah,
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: I mean, it can't happen. For sure, you can find
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: the random person that wants to rip you off. But
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: I think that there's just a lot better controls and
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: processes now. In fact, in fact, the port in Houston
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: felt like a third world country compared to the Panamanian one.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: The Panamanian one, they were professional, and I mean they
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: showed up with the dogs and they were sniffing for drugs.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: I mean, and these guys were very professional, like not
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: even a hint of any kind of impropriety. So but
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: that's the core of their economy, that's right.
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: They take it very serious. They can't afford better reputation,
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: I would agree. Yeah, so that's something to consider. You know,
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: it'd be easy to roll on, roll off back to Houston,
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: and then you're back in the US and ripping and tearing.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: Hell, yeah, Yeah, we love we love traveling in the States. Yeah,
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: and we really like now that with the vehicle with
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: the number now and it gives us a capability to
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: travel in winter, yeah, which after West Africa and the
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: Georgian swamps. Sure, and being cold is such a luxury.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: It's a different thing, it is. I love it, Yeah,
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: I love it absolutely. It's it's so comfortable, it's nice
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: to travel and so.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: New for you guys, something so different, right. I mean,
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: you were lucky if you got the right amount of snow,
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: and I did happen to get stuck in a snowstorm
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: and letts suit too one time. But it doesn't always
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: do that. I mean, I think it's one of the
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: few ski areas in South Africa and it.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: Would be a very good training for us now learning
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: how to travel. I mean, you think after all the
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: traveling done around the world in the beginning, we were
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: chasing the sun, sure, right, and now we are getting
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: to the point where we're saying the sun's too hot. Right, Sure,
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: it's good, let's change it up a little bit. So
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: I think this will be very good for us to
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: learn how to live camp in the snow. Snow is
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: such a weird creature I did. It doesn't do what
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: you think it's going to do, and you can make
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: sure you're on it. And it's great for being I
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: don't know what I'm talking about half the time.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: It did say that your inner dialogue is still the
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: same thing we're all thinking. You're just saying it out louds.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: We appreciate that.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: Right in Canada or up to Alaska and it's still
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: deep in snow.
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: It'll get you ready for Siberia, right or Mongolia or whatever.
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, and once you've once you've you've taught yourself
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: and you know your limitation, and that just opens up
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: your opportunity, no question, right question. And and you could
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: find and I mean there's a Coon and Mariki from
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: land cruising. They took that old land cruise of the incredible, Yeah,
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: and they drove across Russia in the winter. They had
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: to do some winterization, and they have a great website by.
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: Car and Coon are amazing land cruising adventures right right, And.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: They've got and there's there's two overlanders or overland couples
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: whose website I use a lot. Either one is Uh
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: and Koon. I wouldn't say I use a lot, but
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: if I do need information, that's where I go. If
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: I want to see winter driving through Russia, I'll go
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: to there, sure, right. And they're very very good at
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: with their information. Their images are fantastic and they give
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: you what you need to know.
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: So when I was thinking about traveling at the winter,
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: that's where I went in and I was researching on
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: their website. And the other one is Michness and also
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: from Picky Picky Overland and they've been at it a
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: long time, right and on bikes and so that, Yeah,
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: those two are great resource. But anyway, so I think
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: it'll be a great opportunity for us if we do
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: decide to grow up. There's travel in the winter, and
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: that'll give us the opportunity to learn how to travel
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: in this place. Those people just turn around and run
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: the other way. Ah, sure, right, And I think there's
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: a lot of great opportunities and having a unique experience.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: And it's something all new for you guys, right, it's
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: something totally new, a new environment, new places to explore Canada,
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: which is just gorgeous. It's just gorgeous, truly.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: Right, And we haven't done ready. We've crossed Canada going
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: up to Alaska. It's a whole nation. Yeah, that we've
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: barely scratched the surface of it, and what we did
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: see was absolutely sublime.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: It is, and that the people are incredible, right.
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: And the way I understand traveling Canada is you have
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: to have some kind of floatation device that kayak, the
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: canoe or whatever, because I mean in the old days
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: with the trappers. Sure there's roots and rods where you
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: can travel, but much everything else you access by water. Interesting, right,
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: And I've got a friend James Raffin. He's a member
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: of the Explorers Club as am I, and he was
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: I think Canada's Explorer of the Year twenty twenty one.
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: A wonderful man, seriously a professional. He's a writer, he's
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: been writing since the eighties, avid explorer, a fantastic, fantastic guy.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: And I've been talking to him a lot about Canada
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: and he's like, that's the way to go. I got
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: to get on the wood. That's where you're going to
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: see all these things. Okay, So yeah, I think that'll
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: add an elements as well. Maybe not in the dead
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: of winter, right, but there's so much to see and do.
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: Well, even things like doing dog sledding is incredible. I mean,
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: especially if you can find a place where they take
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: really good care of the dogs and they're treated properly.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: So you have to do some research, but if you
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: can find the right place and have that experience, it's
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: just incredible because you guys love dogs, and so do
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: I and to interact with him in that way, in
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: that ancient way. His dogs have been teaming up with
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: people for a long time, right, So I don't think
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: we'd be anywhere near where we're at without our relationship
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: with dogs. It really helped us.
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: And you should see the wolf that I'm traveling with.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: Ha ha. So tell us about your dog. What's the
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: name of your dog? Where did you find your dog?
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: It was it was strange since we started traveling, there's
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: so many stray dogs, you see. It's sure like for sure, yeah,
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: Central South America, Turkey or such a beautiful animal. But
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: we resist adopting an animal just I just have just
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: like I've got enough of my plates.
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: As it is.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: I don't tight confines and sure.
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: Right, and so I resisted, and the kids and Louisa
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: they would always be like, oh, come on, I'm not
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: going to happen to get about it. And it's the
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: one thing where I actually had a veto.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: You got to pick your one veto and that was
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: it right.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: I don't have any other power in my family, but
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: that's that's the one thing. And it was something clicked
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: in Louisa. After the off the West Africa. We were
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: taking care of a friend's house, the guy that owns
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: Quick Pitch okay, well Cookitch North America. I at his
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: house and taking care of it and they had a
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: bull terrier. His name was Ian, like Masia Dian Okay,
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: you had a black patch around and Louisa just fell
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: in love with this tug and she started hassling. But
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: it was a campaign. You teamed up on the whole
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: family and she I was, yeah, I forget about.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: When it goes for your kid. Yeah.
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: We were fixing the land over the gearbox had broken
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: and I think Nigeria, but we got it all the
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: way to South Africa somehow, and we were doing a
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: lot of work on the on the defender and every
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: day I'd sit down and I'd like to fire because
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: he had in built tilting like the South Africans do,
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: a built in fireplace where you actually cooked meat s
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: a Brian built in Briye we call it. And so
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: I'd sit down, light the fire and i'd cut back
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: a cold one, and she'd wait until I got to
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: the second cold one, and then she'd start with, you know,
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: we should really get a dog. You know, it'd be
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: good for Jessica. You know, she's keeling's going to leave
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: and she's going to be lonely, and and she's you know,
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: and she just started and I was like, forget about it,
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: And a few days later she'd do the same, just
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: carried on for three or four months, relentless. She did
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: the very focused she is very and which I gave
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: in and I said, okay, well, well what are we
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: looking at here? And she said, we'll just get a
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: little dog, right, you won't even know he's there, And
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: uh just adopted her, like okay, you know, how bad
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: could it possibly be?
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: And next thing I know, we're taking this little rat
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: dog eating. He was covered with dreadlocks. He'd been on
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: the road for two months. Yeah, it was a Yorkshire Terrier.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: It didn't look like I was other Yorkshire Terrea. We
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: looked like, you know, there's just a little zombie bees
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: turned out to be absolutely insane, right, because he'd been
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: on the road on his and I think the reason
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: because they were hunting dogs. They were bread to run
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: hunt rats. And then sure, and I was like, yeah, okay,
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: And I didn't take the dog seriously until we were
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: at a friend's house and there was a huge rat
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: running around and this little thing took it, broke its spine,
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: through it in the air, and I'm like, what, it's
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: a real dog. It's a real dog. And then yeah,
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: ever since then, he's just been it's been so really
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: really really good for the fame. Now he's your buddy,
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: he's my buddy. I love it, my number one.
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: But yeah, that's so wonderful.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: Whever we said we drive, we got this routine. As
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: soon as I slow down, he runs up book and
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: you'll stand on my arm and look around what's going on.
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: He attacks people. He doesn't attack people wearing uniforms.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: So interesting.
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: That's a good thing, right, Yeah, like police and military uniforms,
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: you want to attack them. But if you work over
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: walk over wearing a work uniform, like with black boots
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: and blue pauses, he'll attack you. The weirdest think. So
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: he's been through all around Southern Africa up to East Africa.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: He's travel with us the whole time. Now, there was
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: a home invader in South Africa. Guy walked into the house.
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: He chased him. Mark that little dog chas this guy
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: out of the house. Could have saved my kids. We
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: weren't there, Sure, because you know the situations. He attacked
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: a snake in Mexico. You'll hike twenty k's and like
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: still want more. So, yeah, he's and and for the
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: whole thing. He's forced us to be more energetic. You
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: have to walk him every day. You have to walk
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: him three times a day. Sure, he breaks our focus
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: when we get negative, especially Louisa and she's getting a
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: little bit down and the jumps and just pass him
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: over and the.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: Day support exactly exactly. We all need that. Yeah.
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's been really good for the family.
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: I can see it in you right now. You're pretty
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: excited about your little guy. What's his name, dog chewbucker, chewbuck.
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: Great size for traveling, doesn't shd Yeah, And once you're
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: around the yes is again. So I'd always thought it
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: was a negative traveling with an animal. I thought it
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: was a really bad idea. And I still think the
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: Great Dane is too big. Yeah, I've met a German
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: couple in Morocco with a truck at a three year
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: old and a Great Dane.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: What are you think exactly? But now they can actually
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: they add a lot to the journey.
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: I think about I think about Benji and his different
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: you know, and the fact that he finally found the
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: right pub in Central America somewhere I think it was
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: at yeah, that was great or somewhere in Mexico maybe
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: is where he found him. And then the next time
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: I saw him and we were walking through Hyde Park
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: in London, and he's got his same pup and just
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: changes his life for the positive, I.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: Think, And I think, I think that's yeah for some
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: people work, yeah, I think, and as well. Now the
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: kids are getting ready to leave, all right, Sir Vin
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: Kendon's gone, Jessica's moved out. Then it's going to be
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: emptiness and yeah, sure it'll be good for all of us,
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: So yeah, no, that sounds right. So how long have
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: you guys been traveling? What year did you leave South Africa?
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: We're out of here.
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: Well, twenty ten was our first major international okay, drop
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: up to Kenya to the board, Kenyon, and then we
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: came back from that.
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: And just so now you're now you're twelve years in,
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: just a little bit over right, and looking back on that,
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: and what we're finding with the overland industry is that
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: there's so many new new people coming in that want
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: to travel. Remote work has now allowed people to hit
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: the road and things like starlink or changing the entire
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: experience even for myself. So these technologies and these capabilities
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: that we have now, so there's all these new people
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: coming into overlanding, and there's all these new families as well.
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: What would be a couple of pieces of advice that
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: you would give to that family that they're driving right
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: now in their family suv and they're listening to this
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: podcast and they're thinking about how do we give our
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: kids those kinds of experiences? How do we spend that
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: much time like the bells with our children. What's some
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: advice that you would give them when they're sitting there
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: driving down the road.
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: Lead from the front right as a father, as a mother,
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: we set the example. Your children are a reflection of
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: who you are. Now most of us we can put
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: on an act in front of other people. You really
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: want to know what someone's like to speak to these kids, right,
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: and you get a really clear idea of how things
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: going in that home. You know what's the situation. And
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: it's been very very important for you to keep the children,
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: to keep them motivated, to keep them happy and happy.
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: Isn't just this.
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: I think satisfaction is a lot more important than happiness.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: Is challenged and right, motivated, right and loved, encouraged. That's
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: all they really need, right. I think kids need to
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: feel supported and loved. If they've got that, I take
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: on the world, can't they?
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: Right? And so many people I'm going to travel my kids,
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: and I need to just take the stuff with you, don't, right, Well,
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: he's like Lego. Girls like Lego. Everyone likes Lego, a
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: little bit of Lego. Bttering in books, a scrap book
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: where they can tell their own story, set little memories
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: from the road. Sure, that's I think those those are
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: the important things. It's it's having conversation, taking a walk together,
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: just one on one and just talking about And it's
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: a great sounding board because you get to talk about
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: what you want to talk about, how you feeling, and
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: the challenges you're facing. So they understand what's going on
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: in your life. Sure, but then you can speak to
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: them as well, and you can know what's driving them
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: and how they're feeling. And I think that's a communication respect.
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: It's very very important.
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: But I see that, I see how you respect your kids,
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: how you talk to Kielan. You talk to them like
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: you know, a fellow traveler, like a like another man
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: in the home. So and he's earned yeah for sure.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean it's weird when we get into a
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: normal environment like a and and they're with all the
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: comforts and stuff. We can get a little bit nitpicky
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: with each other, right, but when the dwang hits the fan,
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: we're there together and we take care of And I
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: think I told you a story before. We had a
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: breakdown in the middle Longer. Yeah, there was a Sunday,
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: a lot of drunk people around. We had a Japanese
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: hitchhiker in the backseat, jessicad malaria and there is an
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: eye but the tools out got stuck in, fixed the engine,
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: but we made sure the kids were settled in or
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: whatever we got stuck in fixed the problem came out,
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: kidn't had the fire going and made us some food
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: we sat on the Jerry Cans hole. We had a
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: cold beer together and you know, no one was touchy
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: with his It's not your fault. Don't do this, don't
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: get upset with each other. It's when when when you
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: need to, you together, work together, and you respect each other.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: So I think that would be my advice to parents
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: is you're going to spend a lot of time with
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: your kids and you want to you want to get
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: to understand them, you want to appreciate them, respect them,
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: the opportunity to have their own voice and get involved
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: with with them. But what's really going on in their lives?
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: And it's and it's just a gift that keeps on giving.
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: And what has Kilan and Jessica taught you? Keilan has
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: taught me.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: Jessica's taught me to never eat when she's talking. Okay, okay,
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: because she's got the most wicked sense of humor exactly
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: exactly like that, So careful around her because she's wicked.
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: She'll say the funniest things. And she's just she's patient,
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: she's loving, she's kind. I mean, you couldn't find a
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: kind of soul in your.
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: Life, A good person to travel with.
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: Absolutely compassionate. Right, everyone has their days teenage girls. But
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: when I'm having a tough time, I know she's going
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: to say, Dad, Joe, be okay, we're going to get
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: through this.
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: I really kind of lean on her in that way.
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: And we have great conversations and we listen to music together,
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: and she's taught me how to use Instagram and to
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: do that doom scrolling, and we've seen each other puppy
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: videos and stuff like that. I don't know where. We
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: were having a conversation and she was like, my best
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: friend is a hairy old man. That would be me.
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: She's she's wonderful in that way. And then Kilan is
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: just he's got the brain of an engineer, right, and
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: he's just always learning new things, dissecting things, even if
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: it's just mentally. And he's really passionate about what he
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: cares about. And so we will have these long conversations
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: about here right where he'll do this deep dive into
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: the history of Apple and why he despises Apple. And
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: he's writing me a ten page dissertation on why Elon
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: Musk is not the Savior of humanity. And you know,
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: we always we talk about gaming and In the beginning,
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: I used to think gaming was a bad thing, right,
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: because in South America there were so many kids and
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: they were always playing and making friends. We got into
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: the US, there's a lot of Internet, but a lot
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: of kids. Yeah, and then he got into gaming. And
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: then at first I really pushed against that usual dad
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: kind of things, sitting in your ears, not doing any
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: But then I realized that he had built a community
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: of people online and if you look at kids, they
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: were going to sit around looking at their front right, Yeah,
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: this community online, and he was playing games like Wall
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: Thunder where they use ancient tanks, all types of tanks.
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: And he would sit me down and say, Dad, did
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: you know that the tracks on this tank were actually
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: designed by this guy? And the government hated him because
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: he was just such a really difficult person to work with,
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: but eventually they accepted the design and blah blah blah.
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: So he teaches me a lot of a lot of
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: things about all kinds of works of life. That's the
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: things that I wouldn't naturally be interested in, but he.
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: Is, and they do they do talk about because so
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: many of these games are are very you know, they're
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: very advanced. They have a lot of complex interact interactions.
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: So there's a lot of game theory that can apply
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: to life if you play it right. So, because you know,
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: the game of life can often reflect the same things.
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: I've never I've never done a lot of that myself.
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: I prefer to feel the salt spray and the and
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: the dust then to see it on a screen. But
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: I certainly understand why someone might want to experience those
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: things virtually. But I think that there's a lot can
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: be learned from those game theory, right.
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: And we spend a lot of time speaking about the future, yeah,
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: because it's very interesting to me and it's very interesting
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: to him. And there's there's so much going on now
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: in the world and we're looking i mean, even our
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: world of overn ending, it's changing very quickly, the evs
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: et cetera. I mean, yeah, the whole landscape is going
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: to change quite quickly before we know it. And I
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: remember writing an article is this the golden age of
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: over and travel? Because I'm not quite sure what is
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: the future going to be?
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: Like, I'm very optimistic. Yes, I think it's just going
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: to keep getting better, so am I. And we'll learn
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: as we go along.
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. And so so Keenan and I were
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: always having these these debates future developments about AI, about
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: things like gaming, about virtual reality. Sure, and so he
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: sends me these Oh man, they always too long, but
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: he sends me all these videos. They challenged my my
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: preconceptions on my opinions. Sure, and then we'd sit and
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: then we talk about and then we listen to podcasts
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: about privacy kind of stuff.
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: I can carry on for about him, but I won't.
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: But yeah, isn't that what a gift? Ryan Graham, I
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: mean to have those conversations with your son, and.
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: I want to miss them when he's done, because I'm
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: going to be listening to the girls carry on about
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: these things and it's not going.
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: To be the level.
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: A little different, Yeah, it's going to be, but it's
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: still going to be good. Yeah. I think we learned
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: so much from the kids, and they've enriched our lives
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: and they've made us better people.
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: Sure. Right. So one of the things that I love
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: to ask is any Well, I'm gonna ask you two questions.
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: So we always ask what new book that you've been
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: reading that you love. We also have to talk about
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: your new books. So let's first, go any anything that
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: you've been reading over the last couple of years that
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: you think our audience would would love to pick up
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: and take a look at themselves. Any any subject at all.
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: It can be even even something that Keeland is recommended
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: to you. But what book have you really loved recently?
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: The most recent and most enjoyab book? Because I was
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: sitting on the beach near Loretto with a friend of
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: mine that James and Lauren I'm on the Highway I
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: think they call themselves, and we've had a Bryan or
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: a barbecue on be your full continents. I was hanging
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: out with him and we were right by the Sea
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: of Cortez and I was like, hey, man, did you
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: do you hear that story about that fisherman who got
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: swept out to see? And he's like, yeah, yeah, I
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: just got the book today. That's a coincidence. Isn't that interesting?
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: So a couple of weeks later we met up again
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: up in the mountains and gave me the book one
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: hundred and thirty eight days it's cool, and this guy, yeah,
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: it's a very interesting story I got swept out to
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: see And it's interesting to me because I'm interested in survival,
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: and I'm gonna be sure. We go into a lot
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: of very remote places.
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: And you've had to survive, right, And we've had a lot.
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: Of situations where our water filters are essential and we've
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: got to have contingency plans everything about what you know,
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: we've been in a lot of places where it could
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: have been dangerous. So survival to me is just an
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: interesting topic and it's it's relevant to my life. And
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: then this guy, I survived four hundred and thirty eight
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: days on a boat. So that was a very very
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: good read. There's also James Raffan. I've read a few
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: of his books. He just look him up and he's
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: got some great There's one arm Struggling to I remember
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: the title right now, my mind is terrible. But it
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: was about a tragedy back in the day where there
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: was a school that had a very interesting concept of
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: using discipline and extreme sports as part of education, making
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: boys into manchure. And they had a tragedy on a
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: lake in the eighties eighties, and it took all these kids.
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: They used to make them go snowshoeing and doing marathon
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: snow shoing little kids, and anyway, they went out on
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: this lake and it was the wrong time to do it,
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: and the storm came up and between kids, I think died. Wow,
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: and James goes back and he does sex the entire story.
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: So it's very very interesting.
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: That would be interesting. Yeah, So now let's talk about
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: your new book, right.
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: So the new book is a second edition of Travel
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: the Planet Overland, which is fantastic, Thank you very much.
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: That was basically everything we know about evland travel and
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: the first edition came out. We've been on the road.
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, we did a lot of overlanding back South Africa,
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: but it was after five years of full time over
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: and travel with kids, circumnavigating South America or eastern Southern Africa,
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: et cetera. So we had a lot of experience. We
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: had a lot to share. We don't presume that we
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: know it all, yes, right, I don't want to come
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: possible exactly exactly. And sometimes you read these articles and
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: these guys are coming across.
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: As and it just means they haven't been anywhere, right,
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: And I.
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: Wouldn't describe myself as an expert, but I would describe
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: us as being experienced, sure, And I think that's that's
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: and that kind of comes across in the writing.
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: I've always felt that the term expert needs to be
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: given to someone else, not said about yourself, right, anybody
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: who calls themselves an expert, I'm usually prety suspicious.
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: Right, And it's and it's a title I'd be reluctant
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: to accept, for.
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: Sure, all right, even though I may be it's deservingly
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: for you, for sure.
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But at the same time, I'm always learning, sure,
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: always learning, and and this is the thing. So the
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: second edition, it hasn't the core of the book hasn't
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: changed that much, but it's basically been a rewrite because
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: we've learned so much and reading it again, I was like, okay,
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: I was spot on to that, but I've got a
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: new experience with this, and so we could have just regurted.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: Can you get can you give an example of something
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: where you're you've changed your mind or it's you've been
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: surprised that you now have a different approach. I think
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: the full size rig okay, but definitely that would be
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: one of mine for sure.
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: Right right, And it's okay, Well, speaking about that is
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: I go from the defender people. I remember when I'm
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: when we started using the number and people, are you
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: getting soft? Getting soft?
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: And I was like, they're not.
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: Just been six months and a freaking range, sleeping in
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: swarm side stuff.
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: Now they say haters are gonna hate right right right.
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: Is more that I realized that the capability and the
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: luxury relative luxury of that vehicle. I gripped out the
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: microwave and I'm not going to use stuff that's the perfolose.
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: Like when you have a good night sleep, when you
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: are have less to worry about on the road. When
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: you're capable off road, you've got more energy and time
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: to think about destination, to think about, experience to think about.
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: There's no award for suffering. I mean, it's like you
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: don't you don't like win, like the gold medal for suffering,
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: Like like that's something that is unfortunate that happens to you, right,
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: It's not something that you have to do in order
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: to win someone's respect. I think that getting a full
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: night's rest and being able to absorb more of your
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: experiences and maybe have a heater when it's cold out,
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with that, but it ates opportunity, sure, because.
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: Now you know you've had a rough day. It's dusty
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: it's dirty or whatever. You know, Okay, we're going to
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: use a little bit of water and have a shark.
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah right, man.
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: It just the whole day just gets so much better.
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: It's incredible, right, and then the next day you're ready
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: for it. Yeah sure, as opposed to going to sleep
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: covered and dirt and grease or yeah.
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: So that was very interesting to me. I don't think
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: I could be convinced that the big trucks is the
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: way to go.
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, the next step up right.
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: I don't think you'll be coming out with the next
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: edition in five years time and saying, you know, I
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: was right, I was wrong about unimogus. But I think, yeah,
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: so the big ricks, you know, you've got space capability,
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: all of that, I think, which the trucks offer about
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: all of those down sites. Sure, so it's a great compromise.
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: So I think that's one thing that I realized I
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: was wrong about. Other than that, I'm a genius, isn't it.
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: They'll have to read the book to find out what
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: the difference is.
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to think there's a lot of words. So
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: I totally rewrote it. It was supposed to be out.
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: The book was suposed to be had a little while ago,
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: but we weren't happy until it was right. Sure, And
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: I mentioned James Raffin again and he said, I send
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: me the draft.
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: I sent it to him, three hundred and forty pages
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: and he edited the entire thing.
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: Wow, and what a gift.
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was. I wasn't expecting that. So then we
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: did the revisions based on that, and which I think
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: is going to mean it's going to be a higher quality.
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: The other quality of the book that you know, you know,
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: it's quirky. My book's always a little bit eccentric.
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: But I love those little stories at the back of
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: it of the other travelers, and I just think it's
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: just it's a very enjoyable read. It's I think it's
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: so easy to just do this, try to do this
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: academic approach of how I see someone should overland, whereas
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: you're like, this is what worked for me, this is
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: what didn't work for me. Yeah, And I think it
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: was a lot more honest.
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, here's the story of why you shouldn't do what
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: I did, right, and this is our Yeah. So there's
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of that kind of stuff. So so
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: basically rewrote the book. A lot of the good stuff
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: is in there, A little bit of the format has
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: been changed, all new images, new cover, the design, the
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: layout is going to be beautiful. So yeah, fantastic yeaheah.
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: We were excited about it. I'm glad it's done.
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: And how do people find find the book?
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: Basically? I think the base way to do it is
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: go through our website.
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: Your website is still a to a or what's what's
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: the what is the current website that you guys are
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: sending people to.
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: It's atoa expedition dot com? Okay, a number two a
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: expedition dot com. Okay, got for now, it'll probably be
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: listed on Amazon, Okay. We did do a kickstart for it,
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: so there's three hundred, four hundred copies going up straight
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: out the Doueor. Sure, but then after that it'll be
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: available on through our website and on Amazon. But it's
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: obviously a lot better if people buy the book from us, sure,
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: because then we may you get to instead of Jeff
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: for sure.
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, he can go to ours. You're just trying
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: to make it to Siberia, so if he doesn't mind,
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: that's okay for sure. The last thing that we like
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: to ask, and you did give an answer the last time,
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: which you may or not remember. But I'd love to
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: see what the new answer is. For someone that's due
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: to overlanding and they want to go see the world,
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: what's what's the elevator pitch? You got thirty seconds to
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: give them some advice? What would you say? Use it?
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: What you have, the call that you've got sitting in
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: your biveway, It'll do it. Yeah, you could do your
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: cape time to Cairo and a Mini Cooper whatever you
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: could do South America. It's not about the vehicle, it's
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: not about the gear. It's about the mindset. It's about
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: getting out there and doing it and be adventurous and
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: being respectful and opening yourself up to your experiences.
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: Allow yourself to be changed a little bit, right, right?
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: And yeah, be adventurous, b B. Be the kind of
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: person you think you should be, and treat people the
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: way you would like to be treated. But it's golden rule,
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: how about that?
• 55:27
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: But I mean the greatest obstacle I think for most
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: people is what's inside their own heads, what's holding them back. Small.
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: You don't have to be the good world's greatest overlander
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: in the first week, because you're not going to achieve
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: that anyway. It takes you years and years and years,
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: and even I sold veterans, we're still learning all the time.
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: Always. Yeah, I appreciate that, Graham. It's it's always such
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: a pleasure to spend time with you. I look up
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: to you so much in your family. You guys have
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: done wonderful adventure adventures around the world as a family,
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: which has encouraged so many people to do that. And
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: we appreciate all of the content that you provide to
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: overlandurn An Expedition portal. It makes such a difference for
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: us and for our readers and listeners. So thanks for
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: being impressed it and thanks for going to the Overland Expo.
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: And we're going to be able to read a bunch
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: of new content from you soon, all right.
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a bunch of good stories coming this way.
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no doubt.
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: All right, Graham, thank you so very much. Yeah, thank
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: you Scott for the opportunity. You know, when I think
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: we removed first met you, we were who were struggling
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: through it. Man, we were first book had come on.
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: I'd like, Louis that we can do this. We're going
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: to make it. And I think a major turning point
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: for us in our entire journey is when we started
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: writing for Expedition Portal.
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: We got that first overland journalist, and it gave us
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: the confidence, and it gave us an income, sure, and
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: it really has been a very very important part of
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: our journey.
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: Well, we're both helping each other out. It's amazing that
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: what it's supposed to be. Well, thank you Graham, and
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: we thank you all for listening, and we'll talk to
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: you next time.