Latest / The Confident Entrepreneur With Jennifer Ann Johnson / Own Your Edge: The Truth About Standing Out in Business With Meg Epstein

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Own Your Edge: The Truth About Standing Out in Business With Meg Epstein · The Confident Entrepreneur With Jennifer Ann Johnson

• 0:37
  Jennifer Johnson: The entrepreneurial journey is challenging for anyone, but being a female entrepreneur in a competitive industry comes with its own unique set of obstacles, opportunities, and experiences.
• 0:49
  Jennifer Johnson: From fighting for credibility to navigating male-dominated spaces, from building confidence to breaking through the glass ceiling.
• 0:56
  Jennifer Johnson: There's so much that goes into this journey that often doesn't get talked about openly.
• 1:00
  Jennifer Johnson: But here's what I believe every challenge that we face and overcome makes a path easier for women who come after that.
• 1:09
  Jennifer Johnson: Today we have the pleasure of speaking with Meg Epstein, who is a real estate developer in Nashville, and she has decades of experience.
• 1:17
  Jennifer Johnson: We're going to dive into the real experiences, the hard-won lessons, and the strategies that can help female entrepreneurs not just survive, but thrive in a competitive landscape.
• 1:30
  Jennifer Johnson: Welcome, Meg.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for having me.
• 1:33
  Jennifer Johnson: I am so excited to have this conversation with you today because I want you to start with your story and what drew you to the industry that you're in today.
• 1:44
  Jennifer Johnson: And were you aware at the very beginning of what you were doing, of how male-dominated your industry was?
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, because I first went to go work on a job site right out of college.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: So I was the only woman, you know, within like on the entire thing for many years.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: So um besides the architect, actually, she was really great.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: But um, you know, I it wasn't really a factor.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: I basically graduated in 2008.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_02: I was very interested in finance, but that market, you know, I mean, all the banks were in control, obviously.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I and I was um in college and I graduated in spring and really got interested my senior year after living in Barcelona in architecture, but I didn't want to be an architect.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I went to go work for a builder that was doing really high-end homes, like$50 million homes.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: And that really gave me a great real estate base with building.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: And but I was on a job site.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: All my friends were working in consulting and had like corporate jobs, and I was on a job site um, you know, running a big, big project.
• 2:59
  Jennifer Johnson: So you mentioned you did it, it wasn't architecture school that you went to.
• 3:05
  Jennifer Johnson: It was finance.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: No, yeah.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: No, I mean, I just I just went to UCLA.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: I had a um, you know, bachelor's of um, I just had a normal degree.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't anything to do.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't really apply anything I learned from college, to be honest.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's more just yeah, just practical experience.
• 3:25
  Jennifer Johnson: Sure.
• 3:26
  Jennifer Johnson: And going abroad, I'm sure, has taught, you know, probably taught you a lot.
• 3:30
  Jennifer Johnson: I know my daughter is in actually in architecture and is going to Barcelona in the spring.
• 3:35
  Jennifer Johnson: So that will be be interesting to see.
• 3:39
  Jennifer Johnson: But um, so so you knew going into this that it was a male-dominated field.
• 3:45
  Jennifer Johnson: Did that scare you at all?
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: No, um, you know, I my dad had um an electric sign business that he used to take me to when I was younger.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I was like used to running around his shop and, you know, with a bunch of blue-collar guys around and learning how to make things.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: And um I never really thought about that aspect of it.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I've never, you know, to be honest, like I'm sure I'm unassuming to people and things like that, but I've never really, I've considered it an advantage of anything because it makes me so different and memorable when I'm raising capital or trying to find deals.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I've actually had a really good experience when I'm sure everybody can't say that, but um, that you know, generally I've felt very respected in my career and um try not to focus on that part of it.
• 4:40
  Jennifer Johnson: Right.
• 4:40
  Jennifer Johnson: I I just I find it very fascinating because you're right, a lot of women didn't have that experience in the career that they're in if it's a male-dominated field.
• 4:50
  Jennifer Johnson: What was what was one of the first and I know you said that you've had great experiences, but has there was there ever a time where you're like, you know what, I realize that being a woman in this industry could could present challenges.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: Did you ever you know it's I'm in a unique spot because I'm I have my I've had my own company now for almost 10 years.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, not to sound like arrogant, but essentially everybody I'm working with is working for me or I'm hiring.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: So maybe that's why I didn't have to like cry climb a corporate ladder or anything.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: I never really had that experience.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: I've always been an entrepreneur.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so you know, and everybody I'm working with, it's my like my team that, you know, is is on my team and I'm choosing them and they're all great fit for, you know, and we all are working together.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so maybe that's maybe if I'm just being realistic, that's why.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: But um, but no, I mean, uh for sure, people are surprised, you know, sometimes.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like sometimes they think I'm the real estate agent or something like that, and I just don't say anything and I just listen to how they treat people.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but other than that, it's not like like I have very institutional investors, you know, public REIT investor and private equity, and nobody's ever made me feel like they, you know, and they've all invested in me and given me hundreds of millions of dollars over the years.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I've I think that they're confident in my process, you know, what I'm building.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: And if anything, you know, and I've never felt for sure discriminated against.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: If anything, like I said, I think that um maybe I just get listened to more because I have a different perspective.
• 6:36
  Jennifer Johnson: Right.
• 6:37
  Jennifer Johnson: How do you think that came about though?
• 6:39
  Jennifer Johnson: Because it's not and obviously it's a confidence that that you exude to them, because a lot of times women will come into an industry and and you know it's the other way around.
• 6:52
  Jennifer Johnson: Do you think it was something that you did early on in your career that kind of established that that you know, I am an authority of what I do?
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: Or was it some I first started out in the residential space.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_02: So I was working for a firm that was building these ultra-luxury homes.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: And yes, I was running a job site when I was 22.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, that was, and these are all subcontractors, you know, a framer, a tile guy, you know, but it was very, very complicated because these aren't just normal homes.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: These are like they take like eight years to build.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so, um, so I learned a lot and how to work with people and project manage.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that, you know, when I started my company, the product sort of speaks for itself.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think when you have a track record is when anybody, even if you're a man, like that's when you get respected and you get investment and people back you.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that it just comes with like a track record.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes I think it's easy for us to get distracted by the dialogue of, you know, like I've as an example, this just happened last couple months ago.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: Someone was telling me how they were a woman in my field was telling me how they were discriminated against for not um, they didn't get awarded a contract because they were a woman.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I was laughing because I had actually gotten the contract she was talking about.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, it's just because you don't have enough track record.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like, don't don't play the woman card.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 8:26
  Jennifer Johnson: Like, how do you ask them then?
• 8:29
  Jennifer Johnson: How do you say, you know, it's not always because of this?
• 8:33
  Jennifer Johnson: Did you look at the other circumstances?
• 8:35
  Jennifer Johnson: How do you say that to somebody?
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I just didn't tell them.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: I just left to myself, but I don't want to, you know, I try not and have that be like my soapbox thing because if you look at what I've done in my business and how fast it grew, even for, you know, and starting with nothing and and not having any, you know, family ties or financial means to begin it.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I I are that my track record, like I said, tends to speak for itself because I grew so quickly and got institutional investment on a faster pace.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: But I, you know, it was also just because I was in a great market, which was Nashville.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: There was a lot of institutional investment interest in 2016, not a lot of sophistic, you know, better like not a lot of um developers that weren't like syndicators or smaller.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so I kind of came in at the right time, offered the right product, got up to speed quickly, and that's kind, you know, and that's so if you if I just look at how fast the company grew in the last seven years, that alone would be my, you know, what I try to teach when I'm mentoring other women, or you know, people are asking me how I did this or that, or asking me about what I'm focused on now in real estate.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_02: I try to focus on those, all those lessons I learned.
• 9:56
  Jennifer Johnson: Absolutely.
• 9:57
  Jennifer Johnson: You know, you mentioned being a woman can have its uh its competitive advantages.
• 10:02
  Jennifer Johnson: Do you have a few that you'd care to share with us?
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like I think it's just, you know, when I was first starting to get pro like get look for deals in Nashville, you know, I was calling on landowners that were getting calls from brokers that all, you know, had a bowl cut and looked the same, just like every every, you know, Johnny broker.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I would go in there.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a I'm a commercial contractor.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like I said, I kind of, you know, I've been on job sites and things, and these are like blue-collar people that are running their HVAC business or their their insulation business in uh in a building that's in, you know, they're sitting on$10 million worth of land in downtown Nashville because the market had changed so much.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_02: So um, so it was like, you know, that was an opportunity for me to talk to these people, relate to them.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I think they were like, oh, well, this is a different story.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, I really want to like, I'm inspired by what you're trying to do that's different and not just, you know, some broker just trying to get a commission.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so I think that definitely helped because I could, you know, I mean, if you're if you're getting a broker's coming to you every week to to try to sell your property and someone looks and sounds different, then I think it's just very memorable, and maybe they give you a second chance or pay a little more attention.
• 11:24
  Jennifer Johnson: Right.
• 11:25
  Jennifer Johnson: So, what was it about the specific industry that drew you because you said you went to to school at UCLA?
• 11:32
  Jennifer Johnson: What was it that drew you to Nashville specifically and this industry out of all of the ones you could have picked?
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, well, as I said, I actually really like finance because I've always liked finance, it just wasn't the right time for that.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I didn't really want to do the whole investment banking route in 2008, um, which is probably what I would have done if it was a different time.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so so and um, you know, so it basically I was just going on a run around call around school, and I used to love looking at these beautiful homes that were being built in Bel Air and Beverly Hills.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I can't imagine.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: So I just was interested in, you know, building basically.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, wow, this is fascinating.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: These are like hotel, you know, I mean, these are like$50 million budgets, basically a commercial in Nashville that's a commercial real estate development project.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: And so I just was very interested in the process and everything.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um so basically, you know, that's kind of what led me.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: I I got a job, and it wasn't like there was a great job market.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_02: I basically just talked to a project manager on a job site and got it my first job.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: And that led to where you're at today.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:55
  Jennifer Johnson: What kind of role now, when people are in business, when you're an entrepreneur, there's always what I call your board of directors.
• 13:03
  Jennifer Johnson: And I'm not talking about the traditional board of directors.
• 13:07
  Jennifer Johnson: I'm talking about mentors and and people that you surround yourself that help you along the way in your business.
• 13:15
  Jennifer Johnson: Did you have that kind of a network when you started out and when you started you started your business?
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: No, I didn't.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: I built in a board of advice.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I've had certain mentors over the years.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I can say that everybody, you know, I moved from California to Nashville in 2016, 15.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I could say that everybody was extremely welcoming.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: I'd say much more than like if I were in New York or San Francisco.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: When I was um in San Francisco, just as a culture, it was very welcoming, and everybody was very friendly and open arms.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_02: And then I've had certain mentors over the years, and then I do do have a board of advisors or not a board of directors, but it so it's a bit informal.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_02: They don't, you know, they can't tell me to do anything, but they are basically like my confidants that I can call that are you know, veterans in the in real estate space that um I lean on for various things.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: You know, one's had seven funds and one's a general counsel, one's a developer, one's been in, you know, corporate capital markets.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: And so I definitely lean on them and I get with them at least six times a year and in person once to to go over our strategy and kind of get guidance.
• 14:36
  Jennifer Johnson: So it's a really important thing to have.
• 14:38
  Jennifer Johnson: I I know because I I you know the mentors and the unpaid people versus you know, you always need to have an accountant, you always need to have general counsel.
• 14:47
  Jennifer Johnson: Those people around you help support everything that you're doing, that you can make one phone call and say, Hey, SOS, I need help here.
• 14:56
  Jennifer Johnson: Um how do you how do you maintain that work-life balance?
• 15:01
  Jennifer Johnson: It's a question I love to ask people because as an entrepreneur, we seem to be working all the time.
• 15:06
  Jennifer Johnson: How do you how do you maintain that?
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm a big compartmentalizer.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: So I when I was first building my business, I had, you know, I waited to have children.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: My husband and I are, you know, I'm not not quite 40 yet, but I was I waited on the, you know, we were together 10 years before we started having kids.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: So we have only started having children in the last two years.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: So my the very beginning of my career and his as well, because he's an entrepreneur, um, was working and you know, we always were working, even when we were on vacation.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: And um, thankfully, as an entrepreneur, you have that flexibility of being able to um travel and you know, have a lot more autonomy over your schedule than if you work for someone, but it was still 80 hours plus a week working, right?
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and now that we and I frankly I really liked my work, so it wasn't always, you know, I'm raising capital, I'm doing PR type things, it's not always just like grinding in front of your computer or something.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it I really enjoyed my career.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_02: But I um about seven years ago started volunteering in the afternoons for um for a nonprofit because what I found was that if I was at my office until 5 p.m.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: or 6 p.m., or I left at two or one, that I wasn't really making more, getting a lot more done.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_02: And so it sort of forced the team and me to be really concerted about my efforts and not just like be at the office to be at the office.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like it just never made sense to me that every single job takes from nine to five every, you know what I mean?
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: It just doesn't make any sense.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_02: So I yeah, so early on I started compartmentalizing off my schedule and I just would be like, okay, I only have this amount of time in the office to get and and I work it, you know, I work early in the morning too.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: I I do my email and things like that.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_02: But I just got into routine because I realized that it just wasn't as productive to just kind of like be at the office and people would just figure things out if I wasn't there, and so um, and that kept me doing higher level things when I was there, and so I kept that schedule in that sort of compartmentalization because I knew when I had kids that I wouldn't have as much time in the office, and so now that I have children, I have I'll have four and I'm due in November, so I'll have four under two years old.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: Four?
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, did you have twins?
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my, we we adopted two and I have I'm having my second one, but wow, congratulations! No, well, I know we were just like, okay, it's time to have kids.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_02: So my husband's um, you know, a few years older than me too.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: So we were just like, okay, we wanted to wait as long as we kind of could, and now we're doing the kid thing.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: But but that was sort of, you know, my schedule and my life is already set up in such a way where it's like, okay, now I'm working and, you know, and I keep a very, I go to bed earlier and I wake up very, very early, like four, you know, and I have my time in the morning to get organized and do my email and everything.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I just sort of set up my way, my life in a way where my schedule is very compartmentalized.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um so that I could keep that balance.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I just, I just run it just like in every other appointment, you know.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: Same thing with my date night with my husband or my workouts or anything.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: I just, I just keep that in.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's like it's on my schedule.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: Ashley, my assistant's amazing.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_02: She runs all my schedule and I I just block it out.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like I don't just let my you know schedule happen defensively.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: And that's how I maintain, you know, a lot of like my sanity.
• 18:57
  Jennifer Johnson: Because it's other otherwise it's very crazy.
• 18:59
  Jennifer Johnson: Right.
• 19:00
  Jennifer Johnson: If it's on your schedule, you're going to do it.
• 19:01
  Jennifer Johnson: If it's not on your schedule, it's too ambiguous.
• 19:04
  Jennifer Johnson: Right?
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_02: And you just end up getting distracted, you know.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_02: I applaud you.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: Four children under two.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: I've actually I've gotten into this.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's easier because it's a lot more efficient, you know.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, right.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: If you're if you're gonna have four, I think it's the way to do it is to stack them.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_02: Having four is a lot, but I love it.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: If you're doing diapers and bottles, you might as well just do more, you know.
• 21:57
  Jennifer Johnson: Hey, I went big.
• 21:58
  Jennifer Johnson: I had twins and my twins.
• 22:00
  Jennifer Johnson: And that's all I have.
• 22:01
  Jennifer Johnson: So I, you know, there's there's a lot now.
• 22:04
  Jennifer Johnson: I want to get into leadership a little bit.
• 22:07
  Jennifer Johnson: What is your approach with regard to leadership and your teams?
• 22:13
  Jennifer Johnson: How do you inspire them and how do you motivate them or inspire other people?
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um well, money, mainly.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: I've realized.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: I've done, I've uh, I'm joking, kind of.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um I only say that because I've had a big team and I've had small teams, and I've done, you know, we've done company retreats and we've done um tons of, you know, team happy hours and bonding experiences and trips and a lot of things.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I think what people really appreciate is being treated like an owner or the people that I want to be on my team, which I've gone through a lot and I've you know had a lot about apples.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: And what I want for my team is that people that are want to be like owners and have that level of responsibility and sophistication because the reality is what I do is very hard and it's very technical.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's not like you know, it's not like running an Amazon business or something where you have a lot of like middle tier people.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: I can pretty much do my job with a handful of very, very sophisticated people, is what I realized, and then like more administrative people to help them, but not I sort of eliminated any role that was kind of a middle tier manager type person because what I realized is that they just don't do as much.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the typical millennial employee is is not very um productive.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so I look for people that are very one entrepreneurial, like not gonna be like, oh, that's not in my job description because we are a small team and we have done a lot of different types of projects and have to kind of, you know, be intelligent enough to navigate that.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: And then I look for people that are, you know, they're they're gonna share in the level of responsibility that I have as a developer because I take on a lot of risk.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_02: Every project I'm signing, you know, a 60, 70 million dollar loan.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I need people that are on, you know, that are alongside me.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_02: So those people are really, they are motivated by back end of the deal.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like they're getting a piece of the end.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so everything that we all do to contribute to that, it's will determine its size.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: And that ultimately, I think, is what people, the people that I want are very motivated by.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, that's all said because we're building a super cool product, we live in an amazing city, we give a lot back to charity.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that those are all the innate aspects of the business that are um probably pretty unique.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: We have a really high sense of design.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: I don't just build, you know, commodity realistic.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_02: Estate, um, like a lot of like, you know, public read type product that just rolls out for numbers, you know.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_02: So all of those other things are most likely inspiring.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: That we're doing something cool.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's very designed forward.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: We're giving people the ability to have cash flowing real estate.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of our condos we build are for investors.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: They're like first-time investors or smaller investors that are, you know, want to invest between 300,000 and a million dollars into a real estate um cash flowing asset.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_02: And they we're giving them financial freedom.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like all of these aspects of what we're creating are really awesome and I think unique.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: And so being a part of that, they really appreciate.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: So that goes without saying, but if I'm just looking at like employment packages, I think they appreciate that they are contributing to the back end, and the back end can take four years on a real estate development project.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: So that's really important to make sure someone's invested alongside you.
• 26:02
  Jennifer Johnson: Um they see that they're part of something bigger than it's just a project, they see it, and and it that's what it sounds like.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 26:13
  Jennifer Johnson: Yeah.
• 26:14
  Jennifer Johnson: So, what is the biggest lesson that you've learned as an entrepreneur that you wish someone had told you going into this?
• 26:22
  Jennifer Johnson: Oh my gosh, there's so many.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: I can choose one.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um I'm sure.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_02: I know, you know, I think I'll I could think off the top of my head too.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: One, I mean, the first one would be really finding your focus, right?
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I have done a lot of different types of real estate.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_02: I've built apartment buildings and condos and industrial parks and office building.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: And it's hilarious to me because what I do now is I build condos that you can Airbnb out.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_02: So it's really funny because when I lived in San Francisco and I was super young and I didn't have a lot of money, I used to Airbnb out my apartment.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_02: And this is back when it was very informal and there weren't a bunch of regular, you know, well, Airbnb wasn't what it was today.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: And San Francisco was where it started.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_02: So it was just started getting out there.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I used to Airbnb out my apartment and go, you know, and go travel or whatever.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I would pay my rent in a couple weekends, right?
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I just that kind of started my entrepreneur.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_02: It was why how I was able to start my own business early on was because I could pay my rent and pay my living expenses like that.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_02: And um, it's hilarious to me because it's now what, you know, 5 12, 13, 14 years later, and I am doing this, building hundred million dollar buildings that allow for people to do that same thing in a much more organized legal way that is in coordination with Airbnb.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: We have a licensing agreement with them, they're amazing.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_02: And it's it's hilarious because if I just really honed in on that and didn't get distracted and do a bunch of other things, I'd probably have you know an Airbnb condo empire by now.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_02: And by a lot of measures, I do.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_02: I've done five projects and you know, round trip to several hundred million.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_02: So it's great.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_02: I have no regrets.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_02: But if the focus was there and I didn't get distracted by all the other things that, you know, where their institutional capital was chasing, um, I'd be probably a bit farther.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_02: Now I've realized that now, and I'm really leaning in, and there was the end of the cycle, you know, this next cycle is that's what I'm gonna be doing.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_02: But I think whatever your your entrepreneurial journey is, just not getting distracted and keeping that focus is super important.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: And it's super easy to kind of you always have to pivot with any business model as COVID happens or the you know, condition market conditions change, you have to pivot.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_02: But staying focused on whatever it is that you're passionate about and not getting too distracted as an entrepreneur, I think is really key.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_02: And then secondly, I would say I think the biggest thing is, you know, when you're growing quickly like I grew, um, the people that you let into your inner circle are just really integral.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: So you have to make sure that, you know, I the whole higher, you know, hire fast or fire fast, uh, higher slow thing is something I had to kind of learn the hard way.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: So it's something I I really, really keep a tight inner circle now just in because I've always been so open arms and excited and wanted to grow my team and um you know I would consider generous.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so that was something that I had to kind of learn the hard way.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like not everybody is on the same page or has your vested interest.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_02: So you have to kind of make sure you're protecting your inner circle.
• 29:56
  Jennifer Johnson: I I totally agree with that.
• 29:58
  Jennifer Johnson: I want to go back to one thing really quick.
• 30:00
  Jennifer Johnson: You said being distracted.
• 30:02
  Jennifer Johnson: As entrepreneurs, we always have shiny objects that are here just vying for our attention.
• 30:07
  Jennifer Johnson: And sometimes at the end of the day, do you think that any of those shiny objects that came after you really helped you in the long run, looking at them as, you know, I'm glad that happened.
• 30:21
  Jennifer Johnson: And it taught me this lesson or it taught me this skill that I wouldn't have had.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, for sure.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I can, it's so easy to be like, oh, if I just did this, I would just, you know, be here.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: No, absolutely not.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I'm really happy I had a uh industrial platform and I because I'm still doing, you know, it's on one hand, I have a I've done diversified things.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so if I were an office developer and COVID happened, like that would be the end of my career, right?
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: So it is good to have, yes, it's it's a good to have, or even just what I was doing in Airbnb, like travel did stop during the pandemic for a long time.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like that was really scary.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't mean I I just kind of mean that um I just think it could be, no, no, I definitely agree that it has helped me and I still have an industrial platform that I am working on.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_02: I just am trying to do it in a much more sense of a platform, meaning I'm building this type of product over and over and over again throughout the Southeast, as opposed to being like, okay, I'm in Nashville, it's an amazing market.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna build a multifamily building and an opportunity zone multifamily building and a condo building and an industrial building.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_02: So um, I've just gotten a lot more focused in terms of like creating a scalable systems and a scalable platform.
• 31:47
  Jennifer Johnson: And focusing on something is beautiful because it helps you accelerate that much faster.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and your team knows what the program is, and you know, it's it's it's easier better for that sense.
• 32:00
  Jennifer Johnson: Yes.
• 32:01
  Jennifer Johnson: So as we wrap up, what advice would you give to young women who are starting their entrepreneurial journey?
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_02: Firstly, I would say to um get a strong foundation in finance.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_02: So it's this is just entrepreneurial in general, but like no matter what you're doing, it's gonna involve financing if it's anything, you know, any type of business.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's one thing that I don't think women get enough exposure to.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I see them trend towards, you know, marketing or other fields.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I really think a strong financial background, I mean, the reason that I have, you know, that I'm the CEO is because I can raise, I can raise capital, right?
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_02: And if I couldn't do that, I wouldn't be in the position or have be in the position to do big real estate development projects.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I think because I have a strong financial mind, that that is far and away what is where women are underrepresented in any business, if I'm just being general.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_02: So I would say, you know, in real estate, that means I took, you know, I took courses on how to underwrite in Excel and how to underwrite investment projects in private equity or whatever other, you know, field you have to understand your financials, basics, you know, PL balance sheet, those type of things.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: Those are all just fundamental accounting um things that I I think it's really important that women understand.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I've seen um, you know, I've done, I'm in a really cool uh group called Brain Trust, which is a a um female founded by a woman named Sherry Deutschmann who's one of my mentors, incredible woman.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um she sold her company, you know, to a total, I think she was a single mom and started this medical billing company and sold it to private equity for a huge exit.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_02: And has taught, and and I um it's basically like a think tank for other women to get together every month and really support the entrepreneurial journey and make sure they get into revenue over a million dollars.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's really awesome.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's called brain trust, but I've been exposed to a lot of different, you know, I hear a lot of stories from women up and starting their companies, you know, bookkeeping businesses or, you know, different lines of product and things like that.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_02: And one thing I I consistently hear is that they didn't either understand the financials or the or the contracts, and that's something that you like hands down can be taken advantage of, or or just not you have to be super smart on.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_02: So any woman that's getting into anything really needs to have that strong financial base um and legal base because those are the basics of doing business.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_02: And then I would say that, you know, figure out how to use it to your advantage, like I said.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, women have a totally different way of operating.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the most, you know, successful men I know are able to just they can focus on one thing mostly.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_02: This is a generality.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_02: I love I love working with, you know, I work with all men, they're amazing, but they can focus on one thing at one time, usually.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_02: And we're multi-top.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and women have an ability to this is obviously it's not every woman and every man, but it just generally it's something I've observed is that women can do a lot more analysis, a lot more planning, a lot more five steps ahead.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes that's overkill in a situation, but use that sort of like whatever your innate abilities are, use that to your advantage.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, and don't and don't keep saying that you're dislike I I just think the whole woman card, like it's sort of like played out a little bit now.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like don't like you're just perpetuating that dialogue if you think that because it's just not, you know, it doesn't have to be true.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_02: And and proving people wrong on that point is a lot more fun than whining about it.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_02: So carry on what I think, right?
• 36:02
  Jennifer Johnson: Yes, carry on.
• 36:03
  Jennifer Johnson: Carry on.
• 36:04
  Jennifer Johnson: Yeah.
• 36:05
  Jennifer Johnson: Well, I love to do what I call the final four with all of my guests because I'm always so interested as to what their answers are going to be.
• 36:14
  Jennifer Johnson: Are you ready for the final four?
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 36:16
  Jennifer Johnson: All right.
• 36:17
  Jennifer Johnson: What is your favorite book and what made it stick with you?
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_02: Oh no, that's my other piece of advice would be to just read, read, read.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I love so many books.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I read a lot.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_02: I've read a million entrepreneurial books, um, real estate-specific books, you know, about big large transactions or developers in the past.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_02: So any book that's relevant, I'd say like fundamentally, um, you know, I really liked how I built this, um, which is a podcast that that that was on NPR for a long time.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_02: And he wrote a book just all these entrepreneurial journeys and the crazy stories behind Peloton and Uber and all these brands that you know.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that was really inspiring as an entrepreneur.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_02: I think fundamentally, probably um Atlas Shrugged, like if I had to choose one book of all time that I would read again.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think I also really liked more recently I read um Ben Horowitz's Hard Thing About Hard Things.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_02: Just kind of the same, you know, when Elon Musk says entrepreneurship is staring into the abyss, eating glass.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_02: It kind of makes you those sort of books that are make you kind of get on the other end and go, okay, well, this isn't so hard what I'm dealing with.
• 37:35
  Jennifer Johnson: Right, exactly.
• 37:36
  Jennifer Johnson: Yeah, awesome.
• 37:38
  Jennifer Johnson: Do you have a favorite quote or piece of advice that you find yourself coming back to time and time again?
• 37:45
  Jennifer Johnson: Oh, I don't know.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: A specif, I can't think of um not a specific quote, but I think one thing that is just for me, it's like perseverance, you know, perseverance.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like I've had to work on deals for four, five, six, seven years before I'll give up on them.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I think that's just a lesson where a lot of people just get it, get to the 80, you know, the 80-yard line and sort of tinker out.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_02: And it's kind of that last 10, 20% where you have it could take a lot of effort just not to give up and keep going, as long as it's a sustainable venture, right?
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I mean, obviously you don't want to just keep doing something that's failing and failing, but I've had projects that have had in a tremendous amount of adversity that I've gotten pushed through and gotten across the line and ended up making a lot of money that anybody else would have given up on because it was just so hard to figure out or so nuts.
• 38:44
  Jennifer Johnson: So I think perseverance is a general theme of my career, has been um definitely what is one habit or practice that genuinely changed your life or your business?
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um I uh habit or practice.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I would say either, you know, I spend a lot of time on self-improvement and like I said, really balancing.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_02: I've done a lot of um, you know, training and and things like that to really, you know, make sure that I'm being the best CEO and that I'm you know being the best person I can be.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I really try to give back a lot more now that I'm established.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I think that's a big part of who I am, is you know my other interests, I guess.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but other than that, I would say my marriage is probably a pretty integral part of my journey.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, um, I married someone that I'm very close, you know, that's the person, you know, the person I was meant to be with, I'd say.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_02: And and I think that having that foundational team to build from, whether it's, you know, us being parents or us both being entrepreneurs, has been um probably the best, you know, best aspect of my life.
• 40:05
  Jennifer Johnson: Wonderful.
• 40:06
  Jennifer Johnson: And it sounds like you're always learning.
• 40:08
  Jennifer Johnson: So that's a good thing.
• 40:09
  Jennifer Johnson: That's kind of yes.
• 40:11
  Jennifer Johnson: My final question is if you could have dinner with anyone, who would it be and why?
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_02: Oh man, that's a tough one.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_02: I I know this is gonna, this is probably like just off the top of my head, it's probably controversial.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_02: But I I just think what Elon Elon Musk just announced, a big boring company in Nashville where he's gonna drill underneath Nashville and build these somebody.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I just like like you have to acknowledge the fact that the guy is like the ultimate entrepreneur.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how do you have Tesla, SpaceX?
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it just it's fascinating to me.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_02: It it boggles my mind when I'm stressed out about a couple hundred million dollars in projects and going, oh my God, like I can't get this thing out of the ground.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just like, like my friend that I sit on a board with in Nashville was sitting in traffic, going to the airport, and called his friend at the boring company, who is a CFO.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_02: And now we're getting a subway from the airport to downtown Nashville six months later.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_02: That just is insane to me, the level of impact that one person has made.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_02: So for that reason, and from the entrepreneurial aspect of it, I would just love to pick his brain mostly all the time.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's just, yeah, I mean, I read the book and it's like, you know, and not only that, I mean, you're talking about solar housing, which is super interesting to me.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, building transportation systems.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I spent a lot of time on boards with ULI or the Civic Design Center trying to figure out how to not have Nashville become the next Atlanta or Los Angeles in terms of, you know, traffic and solving these kind of world problems or urban planning problems.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so it definitely impacts me and it just like you know makes me pushes me to think, try to think a bit bigger.
• 42:07
  Jennifer Johnson: Um would be a really good one to have have uh dinner with for sure.
• 42:11
  Jennifer Johnson: I totally agree with that.
• 42:12
  Jennifer Johnson: Meg, I have thoroughly enjoyed our time together today as we as we come to a close.
• 42:17
  Jennifer Johnson: If our audience would like to connect with you, how can they do so?
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I would say I think my assistant monitors our our LinkedIn pretty closely, um LinkedIn messages, um, our web and or through our website, there's a contact page.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_02: But um we we do post in you know LinkedIn updates every week or two, what we're up to.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a good way to kind of follow along the journey.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_02: Fabulous.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much, Meg.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, and thank you to my to my listeners.