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Capturing Stories and Crafting Success with Carol Spagnuola · Epic Entrepreneurs

• 0:29
  Bill Gilliland: Hey there and welcome to this week's episode of Epic Entrepreneurs.
• 0:32
  Bill Gilliland: I've got my friend Carol here with us today.
• 0:34
  Bill Gilliland: Carol, how's it going?
• 0:36
  Carol Spagnuola: Excellent.
• 0:36
  Carol Spagnuola: It is feeling much better these days and it actually feels good to be able to say I'm doing good, as I know many of us have probably been feeling, but thank you for having me on the show, bill.
• 0:49
  Bill Gilliland: You're welcome and for those of you that may be listening to this from somewhere other than Asheville, you know we got hit by a hurricane and certainly Carol's studio was affected and a lot of things, a lot of all of us were affected.
• 1:03
  Bill Gilliland: But anyway, so thanks that you're doing.
• 1:04
  Bill Gilliland: I'm glad that you're doing better and good.
• 1:06
  Bill Gilliland: So tell us a little bit about your business.
• 1:11
  Carol Spagnuola: Yeah, I'm a local professional photographer here in Asheville, been in business for 11 years now.
• 1:18
  Carol Spagnuola: I do have a studio in the River Arts District and I actually moved from one of the buildings that was did not make it through the storm the Riverview Station to Film Mechanics.
• 1:30
  Carol Spagnuola: So we are one of the buildings that are still standing.
• 1:34
  Carol Spagnuola: But I do primarily headshot and portrait work and I love what I do.
• 1:42
  Carol Spagnuola: I'm very passionate about working with people and building their businesses and kind of like what you do.
• 1:49
  Carol Spagnuola: And, yeah, I'm really thankful that I get to choose my career for what I love to do.
• 1:58
  Bill Gilliland: Yeah, and, by the way, she did our headshots, has done an amazing job.
• 2:02
  Bill Gilliland: They're incredible and yeah, and it was a good experience.
• 2:07
  Bill Gilliland: It was fun, like I was like, oh, I got to go get my pictures done, but I got up there and it was fun, so thanks for that.
• 2:13
  Bill Gilliland: You also do a lot of other things.
• 2:15
  Bill Gilliland: What tell us a little bit about what else you do?
• 2:19
  Carol Spagnuola: Well, for 2025, I'm rebranding my business to create more of a package for businesses.
• 2:25
  Carol Spagnuola: So, yes, you might need a headshot or portrait for your about page that goes on your website or you could use for social media, but also images that speak to your brand, the lifestyle of your brand, your business, the personality of your business, and also, if you sell certain things, you'll have product photography, you'll have restaurant photography, food photography all within this branding bubble, if you will, of imagery that you can use across the board for marketing, for your websites, for your social media, for marketing pamphlets, whatever that you see fit.
• 3:02
  Carol Spagnuola: So it would be essentially packages that we could do once a month, or maybe every few months, or quarterly.
• 3:10
  Carol Spagnuola: You end up with a bunch of images to use, and so maybe we do that as a quarterly thing and we talk all about the details leading up to it, setting up the shoot.
• 3:21
  Carol Spagnuola: I'm really specific and detailed about that because I want these images to be something that you end up loving and happy with that you end up loving and happy with.
• 3:34
  Bill Gilliland: So it's all photography-based.
• 3:35
  Bill Gilliland: You're just doing more than just the headshots, right?
• 3:41
  Carol Spagnuola: Exactly which I've always done.
• 3:43
  Carol Spagnuola: I just have not.
• 3:44
  Carol Spagnuola: I guess not.
• 3:44
  Bill Gilliland: I want to talk to you.
• 3:45
  Bill Gilliland: You said about show the personality.
• 3:47
  Bill Gilliland: Tell me how you do that, because that's a I don't know, I don't know how to do it.
• 3:53
  Bill Gilliland: You know, I'm not a I'm not a photographer, so tell me how you do that.
• 3:57
  Carol Spagnuola: Absolutely so.
• 3:58
  Carol Spagnuola: Let's say you're a massage therapist and we would start with some headshots, portraits of you and the personality of your business.
• 4:08
  Carol Spagnuola: For that is a lot of times we think of a massage, we think of soothing, we think of nurture and care.
• 4:14
  Carol Spagnuola: So you would have imagery that somebody is showing just that, maybe during the massage, maybe somebody wrapping like a warm towel around their head, something that shows that personality that wants to draw somebody in to their business.
• 4:31
  Carol Spagnuola: If you own let's say you're a real estate company, right, and you of course need headshots for real estate, but you also want to show that you're approachable and friendly and that you know you could show the personality of you inside certain homes, walking around and just having a good time, so that people can feel and connect to you.
• 4:55
  Carol Spagnuola: So there's just different ways that you can show personality and imagery.
• 4:58
  Bill Gilliland: Right, and so it could be individual too.
• 5:00
  Bill Gilliland: I mean you could take, I mean you could take something that was maybe not, maybe maybe think about you know a soothing for massage therapy, but maybe there's like a you know, really pumped up massage therapist or something.
• 5:14
  Bill Gilliland: That would be a different experience.
• 5:16
  Bill Gilliland: I don't know.
• 5:16
  Bill Gilliland: That'd be interesting yeah.
• 5:19
  Carol Spagnuola: Yeah For you.
• 5:19
  Carol Spagnuola: You boost businesses.
• 5:22
  Carol Spagnuola: You could do lots of pictures of you with your clients, you reading books and educating yourself to show that you're constantly evolving with what you do, so you can bring that to the table of your clients.
• 5:32
  Carol Spagnuola: It's all different kinds of ways to get creative.
• 5:35
  Bill Gilliland: Got it.
• 5:35
  Bill Gilliland: I got it.
• 5:36
  Bill Gilliland: Yeah, no, that's cool.
• 5:39
  Bill Gilliland: That is cool.
• 5:40
  Bill Gilliland: So how'd you get into this business in the first place?
• 5:43
  Bill Gilliland: I mean, have you always been a camera bug, or what's the deal?
• 5:48
  Carol Spagnuola: Yeah, I've done it since high school.
• 5:49
  Carol Spagnuola: I had a dark room at my parents' house inside the basement and I did go to college for photography and video, but I didn't do anything with it in my 20s and then, about when I was 35 and I owned another business, I was like, why am I not picking up a camera?
• 6:07
  Carol Spagnuola: And so I had a 35 millimeter film camera at the time and I bought a digital camera and started taking pictures at concerts, which I completely love seeing live music.
• 6:19
  Carol Spagnuola: So the two went really well together and it evolved really quickly and people started to connect with my photography and then I said this is something I want to pursue.
• 6:30
  Carol Spagnuola: So I started to do some research on what type of photography, because there's so many different niches out there and I don't want to be a Walmart photographer.
• 6:39
  Carol Spagnuola: I don't do weddings, you know.
• 6:41
  Carol Spagnuola: I mean because there's people that do like everything and I feel, you know, it's better to specialize in one specific genre, if you will.
• 6:49
  Carol Spagnuola: So it just evolved that way, and five years later I sold my other business, went full time in this, and here I am, six and a half years later, and so happy that I haven't looked back.
• 7:04
  Carol Spagnuola: Don't do the math on my age.
• 7:07
  Bill Gilliland: Yeah, okay, all right, I'm trying to.
• 7:09
  Bill Gilliland: Yeah, okay, all right, I'm trying to yeah.
• 7:16
  Bill Gilliland: So you know it's a, it's a.
• 7:16
  Bill Gilliland: I want to talk a little bit about specializing, because I think that's useful for some people.
• 7:19
  Bill Gilliland: I mean, that is a, that is a marketing concept and that seems to have worked really well for you.
• 7:24
  Bill Gilliland: I mean, what?
• 7:25
  Bill Gilliland: What I'm hearing is that you, you chose, you sort of realized, all right, I didn't want to be a Walmart, I didn't want to do weddings, I don't like doing.
• 7:32
  Bill Gilliland: You know, I wanted some flexibility as well, so I want to make my own hours.
• 7:36
  Bill Gilliland: But the headshots seem to be good because and you came out of business, so the business seemed like because, I mean, headshots are for business people, right, in general, it's for a website or for something along those lines Vaccine, yeah, yeah.
• 7:52
  Bill Gilliland: Yeah, there's a lot of ways to use them, but you know so they need to be done.
• 7:55
  Bill Gilliland: And it's cool because they need to be done every year or two anyway.
• 7:58
  Bill Gilliland: So, because you know, people change, right, Absolutely.
• 8:03
  Carol Spagnuola: We grow up.
• 8:04
  Bill Gilliland: We grow up, but now you're looking at adding some stuff, which I think is appropriate.
• 8:09
  Bill Gilliland: You've established a beach hold and now you approach it, so what was your thinking on, like how to specialize and what to, and how has that worked out for you?
• 8:19
  Carol Spagnuola: Well, for the headshots, I know when I was doing a lot of research at the time and started studying and realized that it wasn't just about taking a picture.
• 8:28
  Carol Spagnuola: It was about connecting with humans and creating an experience for them, because at the end of the day, when you look at your headshot, I want you to remember how you felt and that not walked away, not liking the experience because I hear that a lot.
• 8:43
  Carol Spagnuola: So that started to connect with me because I feel like my purpose in life is I'm more of a positive person and I love to uplift myself and others, and that just was part of being a headshot photographer portrait photographers you know you got to uplift that person in that moment.
• 9:00
  Carol Spagnuola: You got to get them to be confident and comfortable and have a good time and trust you, and so that kind of became pretty easy once I knew that.
• 9:11
  Carol Spagnuola: But I always love to dabble in, like I've done some food photography for some restaurants and product photography or more like if it's a restaurant, having people sitting and enjoying the place or whatever it is that you have there, and so I started to really enjoy that as well, and so combining the two only makes sense because it's an all around package that you need for your business.
• 9:38
  Bill Gilliland: Did it just show up?
• 9:39
  Bill Gilliland: Did somebody say hey, can you do this, can you take some pictures of some food for us, and maybe can you make us look better?
• 9:45
  Bill Gilliland: How did it show up?
• 9:48
  Carol Spagnuola: Well, a couple years ago a business the National Sports Club opened up and they were good friends of mine.
• 9:55
  Carol Spagnuola: So I did their marketing and social media and pictures for the year and I had done it before, but that was like a more of a um addition to my photography business and I loved it.
• 10:09
  Carol Spagnuola: And I don't necessarily love posting for someone else's social media, but doing the, the, the pictures for it, I absolutely loved.
• 10:17
  Carol Spagnuola: So this past year it's been on my list to start creating and then we all know this fall we all kind of had stuff pushed to the side and we're busy, you know, helping our community out.
• 10:29
  Carol Spagnuola: So this is the year that I'm going to really market this and rebrand it and I'm in the process of redoing my website for it.
• 10:37
  Bill Gilliland: Yeah, I mean you can always hire somebody to post the things once the creative stuff is done.
• 10:44
  Bill Gilliland: I mean that's an assistant or a virtual assistant job.
• 10:49
  Bill Gilliland: So I mean that's leaning into the stuff you love to do and letting somebody else do all the stuff you don't love to do, right?
• 10:57
  Bill Gilliland: So you've been in a couple of businesses.
• 11:00
  Bill Gilliland: I'm sure you've had some lessons in there.
• 11:02
  Bill Gilliland: Give us a couple of lessons.
• 11:04
  Bill Gilliland: Give us a couple of lessons.
• 11:08
  Carol Spagnuola: Yes, there's always a lot of them.
• 11:10
  Carol Spagnuola: One of the biggest lessons I think that most businesses learn a lot from, especially myself, is if it takes you double or triple the amount of time to do something, then you should probably find the professional to do it.
• 11:27
  Carol Spagnuola: I used to do my own accounting.
• 11:29
  Carol Spagnuola: I've messed things up.
• 11:30
  Carol Spagnuola: I have to pay sales tax.
• 11:33
  Carol Spagnuola: I was always late and I'll just be very transparent.
• 11:36
  Carol Spagnuola: I always paid it, but I had fees to pay and finally I was like why am I doing that?
• 11:40
  Carol Spagnuola: Just pay the professional to take care of that and take that one thing off of your plate so that you can focus more on the things that you specialize in.
• 11:48
  Carol Spagnuola: And that was one of the biggest lessons I'll still recommend to people, no matter what it is.
• 11:55
  Carol Spagnuola: If it's taking you a long time to do it, your time is valuable.
• 11:59
  Carol Spagnuola: So remove that, give it to a professional, put it in with the budget and move on.
• 12:06
  Bill Gilliland: Well, I mean, and the truth said, in most professions and most business owners can make more money doing the thing that they're good at, that they're actually a genius Doing the thing that they're good at that they're actually a genius rather than doing data entry or bookkeeping or something that now a bookkeeper can make more money doing that because that's what they do.
• 12:26
  Bill Gilliland: Yeah, so, because they can do it, yeah, it's crazy.
• 12:32
  Bill Gilliland: I remember I hired, I had this, I made this long list one time of and I needed, as a whole bunch of admin stuff I needed done and I was like this is going to take three, four or five weeks to do it.
• 12:43
  Bill Gilliland: And I hired a um, actually a college intern, to do it and she did it in, uh, two days, like everything the whole.
• 12:52
  Bill Gilliland: Four or five weeks it would have taken me and she did it in two days.
• 12:55
  Bill Gilliland: So it's, yeah, it's, that's a good, that's, that's a good lesson.
• 13:05
  Bill Gilliland: Let's do a quick round.
• 13:06
  Bill Gilliland: Epic is an acronym and so let's, let's do a quick round.
• 13:07
  Bill Gilliland: Let me get your thoughts on the acronym.
• 13:10
  Bill Gilliland: So, um, the B part, it's B EPIC.
• 13:12
  Bill Gilliland: So the B part of it's bring the energy.
• 13:13
  Bill Gilliland: What, what, what's your, your energetic, what's the?
• 13:16
  Bill Gilliland: What's your thoughts about energy and bringing energy to the work.
• 13:20
  Carol Spagnuola: That's mindset.
• 13:22
  Carol Spagnuola: So, we could sit here and be like, oh, I'm so tired.
• 13:25
  Carol Spagnuola: Or we could sit here and say, no, I'm good, I've got this, and you know.
• 13:32
  Carol Spagnuola: Side note on this metaphor part is I run a lot and I heard recently when you feel pain and like maybe your calf is tight, and you say I love my body, I love my calf, I love my calf, then it kind of goes away.
• 13:45
  Carol Spagnuola: And so I've started to do that and literally for the next couple of minutes I forget that my calf hurts.
• 13:51
  Carol Spagnuola: And so point is, if you want to bring the energy, just believe in yourself, have confidence in yourself and tell yourself that you can do it.
• 14:00
  Carol Spagnuola: No negativity.
• 14:01
  Carol Spagnuola: Negativity will not bring energy.
• 14:06
  Bill Gilliland: We're going to call you the energetic photographer or the positive photographer or something like that.
• 14:11
  Bill Gilliland: I don't know.
• 14:12
  Bill Gilliland: It's awesome, I love it.
• 14:13
  Bill Gilliland: No, look, I'm a hundred percent.
• 14:16
  Bill Gilliland: I'm with you, mindset.
• 14:17
  Bill Gilliland: It's all about deciding Make a decision and go with it.
• 14:20
  Bill Gilliland: All right, the E stands for education.
• 14:22
  Bill Gilliland: So what important?
• 14:24
  Bill Gilliland: What do you think the importance of education is in business?
• 14:33
  Carol Spagnuola: the importance of education is in business.
• 14:34
  Carol Spagnuola: Well, for my field of photography, it's ever-changing and there's a lot of new programs out there, a lot of different ways to do things, and studying is only going to elevate your business.
• 14:44
  Carol Spagnuola: Getting to know, like what's current, what's trending, and also something like, for instance, if I'm doing product photography, doing a course on that, learning about that, find a mentor that can educate you and improve your skills.
• 15:01
  Bill Gilliland: Yeah, I think you learn whatever the best way it is for you to learn.
• 15:05
  Bill Gilliland: I like audio, I like podcasts and Audible and books on tape and all that stuff.
• 15:12
  Bill Gilliland: So it's all good you got to find what works for you.
• 15:15
  Bill Gilliland: I love that.
• 15:15
  Bill Gilliland: Okay next.
• 15:16
  Bill Gilliland: So the E in EPIC is education, the P in EPIC is planning.
• 15:23
  Bill Gilliland: What's your thoughts about planning?
• 15:26
  Carol Spagnuola: I think planning creates a successful day.
• 15:30
  Bill Gilliland: Oh, I love that.
• 15:32
  Carol Spagnuola: I am still working on that.
• 15:34
  Carol Spagnuola: I even bought these daily plans.
• 15:38
  Carol Spagnuola: That has time.
• 15:40
  Carol Spagnuola: So I wake up and I write in each time spot what I'm supposed to be doing.
• 15:46
  Carol Spagnuola: And it really helps, especially us multitaskers, that sometimes you feel overwhelmed with the large list.
• 15:55
  Carol Spagnuola: So if you really compartmentalize it to a specific time, it has really helped me plan the day and be more successful, especially that two o'clock mark when you need to give yourself 30 minutes.
• 16:07
  Bill Gilliland: Tough time of the day, I'm telling you.
• 16:08
  Bill Gilliland: It is it just so?
• 16:10
  Bill Gilliland: Is the?
• 16:11
  Bill Gilliland: Yeah, I agree, the most important plan you can make is the plan for the tomorrow.
• 16:15
  Bill Gilliland: Yeah, yeah, I like it.
• 16:18
  Bill Gilliland: The I stands for inspiration.
• 16:20
  Carol Spagnuola: I've also learned that Say that Start backwards, like when you have something, a, something plan, just kind of go backwards towards it, which I'm really trying to master.
• 16:29
  Carol Spagnuola: I really like that idea.
• 16:34
  Carol Spagnuola: So, that's the idea there is to chunk it down in smaller steps.
• 16:38
  Carol Spagnuola: Is that the yes Like?
• 16:41
  Carol Spagnuola: Let's say we have, I have a meeting at 10.
• 16:42
  Carol Spagnuola: So I start backwards.
• 16:43
  Carol Spagnuola: I know I have a meeting at 10 o'clock with Bill, and then how long is it going to take me to set up?
• 16:46
  Carol Spagnuola: I know it might take me 10 minutes to get all of my computer, blah, blah, blah, and then how long will it take me to get ready?
• 16:53
  Carol Spagnuola: So I know, at 9.50, I have to start getting my computer ready.
• 16:57
  Carol Spagnuola: At nine o'clock I have to shower and get all that.
• 17:01
  Bill Gilliland: So it's kind of like yeah, yeah, yeah, chunk it down.
• 17:03
  Bill Gilliland: Little things make it manageable.
• 17:04
  Bill Gilliland: I mean on big stuff you can do that.
• 17:17
  Carol Spagnuola: Sometimes multiple day projects that stuff the eye is inspiration.
• 17:19
  Carol Spagnuola: What are your thoughts about inspiration?
• 17:20
  Carol Spagnuola: Well, the inspiration first starts within you and then also find, follow people, locals, your friends, anybody that inspires and uplifts you.
• 17:25
  Carol Spagnuola: That's somebody that is an inspiration.
• 17:29
  Carol Spagnuola: It doesn't have to be this large, famous person.
• 17:33
  Carol Spagnuola: It could just be somebody that you know, that you know is out there kicking some serious butt in this world and in life and they can inspire you.
• 17:42
  Carol Spagnuola: That's a beautiful thing.
• 17:43
  Carol Spagnuola: We don't have to recreate the wheel in some ways of just knowing what feels good and that can uplift you and inspire you.
• 17:52
  Bill Gilliland: Yeah, and I love it, and the C is commitment.
• 17:55
  Bill Gilliland: So what's your thought about commitment?
• 17:58
  Carol Spagnuola: When the tough gets hard, don't bail.
• 18:02
  Carol Spagnuola: That's your commitment.
• 18:04
  Carol Spagnuola: Because there are many times where you're like man, I'm struggling, I don't feel inspired, I don't feel motivated.
• 18:10
  Carol Spagnuola: I don't know if I I don't feel motivated, I don't know if I want to continue this business.
• 18:12
  Carol Spagnuola: It's been really hard.
• 18:13
  Carol Spagnuola: Those are the moments you go no, I am going to push through this, I'm going to commit to what I'm doing and get through it.
• 18:21
  Carol Spagnuola: And that is I love that, because when you actually get to the other side and the ball gets rolling again and you're so glad that you commit it to yourself and to what you're, about.
• 18:33
  Bill Gilliland: I love that.
• 18:33
  Bill Gilliland: I love that.
• 18:34
  Bill Gilliland: So I want to talk about running a minute.
• 18:36
  Bill Gilliland: You said you run a lot.
• 18:37
  Bill Gilliland: I've had a few pretty serious track athletes that also own businesses and I've always gotten their thoughts.
• 18:46
  Bill Gilliland: How do you think running or even physical activity, whatever, however you want to take it has helped you in business?
• 18:54
  Carol Spagnuola: Well, I believe working out and running is a metaphor in life.
• 18:58
  Carol Spagnuola: Like I love to run up a hill, because to me, running up that hill it's really tough and you're running and you're going to get to the top.
• 19:07
  Carol Spagnuola: And once you get to the top, you feel so amazing when, if you set yourself to run I'm going to run five miles and you push to get to that five miles.
• 19:15
  Carol Spagnuola: However, you get there.
• 19:16
  Carol Spagnuola: Remember, the journey is definitely a major part of it, but getting there and how you got there is just the most amazing thing.
• 19:25
  Carol Spagnuola: And also that you're able to tell yourself that you can do the things that you've told yourself that were impossible, but they are completely possible.
• 19:33
  Bill Gilliland: Yeah, I think running is a great metaphor because there's always another gear, there's always another distance, there's always another challenge.
• 19:41
  Bill Gilliland: I do love that.
• 19:44
  Carol Spagnuola: Yes.
• 19:45
  Bill Gilliland: Let me wrap this up with one question that I almost always ask everybody, and that is what do you wish that somebody had told you years ago?
• 19:52
  Bill Gilliland: What do you wish that you'd known then, that you know now?
• 19:57
  Carol Spagnuola: Oh goodness, Do we have time?
• 20:00
  Carol Spagnuola: No, I'm just joking.
• 20:02
  Bill Gilliland: You can have multiple.
• 20:03
  Bill Gilliland: Yeah, we have some time.
• 20:04
  Bill Gilliland: Yeah, go ahead.
• 20:06
  Carol Spagnuola: Yeah, this might crack you up, but I never drank coffee for my whole entire life.
• 20:11
  Carol Spagnuola: This is so simple, but this is what came to my mind and I'm going to be organic about it.
• 20:15
  Carol Spagnuola: I drank a latte a few years ago and I came home and did like that 2 pm.
• 20:20
  Carol Spagnuola: I will drink a little caffeine and I like totally focused.
• 20:22
  Carol Spagnuola: So as silly as that might sound and someone might have thought I was going to come up with this beautiful metaphoric response, there's my organic response, right there.
• 20:49
  Bill Gilliland: No, I like it, that's real and, like you say, two o'clock in the afternoon, sometimes I'm headed for some caffeine, for a tea or something, right?
• 20:58
  Carol Spagnuola: Yeah.
• 20:59
  Bill Gilliland: Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm with you.
• 21:01
  Carol Spagnuola: I'll add.
• 21:02
  Carol Spagnuola: This is just to remind yourself of even the bad days are great days and to give yourself grace.
• 21:10
  Carol Spagnuola: So I have been.
• 21:12
  Carol Spagnuola: You know, I've always been really hard on myself and push myself, and push myself and I wish I had told me myself the 15 years ago to just take each moment for each moment, slow it down and know that you can push yourself.
• 21:27
  Carol Spagnuola: But you can also learn when the calm needs to happen.
• 21:31
  Bill Gilliland: Yeah yeah, give yourself a little grace.
• 21:33
  Bill Gilliland: I love it.
• 21:34
  Bill Gilliland: I love it.
• 21:35
  Bill Gilliland: Well, this has been awesome.
• 21:36
  Bill Gilliland: This has been a lot of fun.
• 21:37
  Bill Gilliland: So thanks, thanks, thanks for hanging out and having a conversation with us today, and you're an inspiration to all of us.
• 21:45
  Bill Gilliland: So keep up the great work and keep being an inspiration.
• 21:51
  Carol Spagnuola: Oh, thank you, Bill.
• 21:52
  Carol Spagnuola: I'm so grateful that you asked me to be on this.
• 21:54
  Carol Spagnuola: You're an inspiration to many as well, and so we appreciate you in Western North Carolina for all that you do.
• 22:00
  Carol Spagnuola: It's awesome, and there's a lot of businesses that have been doing amazing because of the guidance and your coaching of you.
• 22:06
  Carol Spagnuola: So thank you.
• 22:07
  Bill Gilliland: Well, thanks, and we're having fun.
• 22:10
  Bill Gilliland: We get to help people and it's fun, so it's a good thing.
• 22:15
  Bill Gilliland: Yep, hey, until next week, all the best.
• 22:20
  Carol Spagnuola: Yes, Thank you everybody.
• 22:21
  Carol Spagnuola: Have a great 2025.