Latest / Founder Talk with Alex Sheridan / Why America is So Divided With Founder Mike Nellis

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Why America is So Divided With Founder Mike Nellis · Founder Talk with Alex Sheridan

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  If you are turned off by talking about politics or what's
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  happening in the United States, then you might want to tune out
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  now because we're definitely going to get there.
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  We're at a moment where American politics is going to shift
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  dramatically in the next couple years.
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  Whether you want. It to or not the US debt is 37
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  1/2 trillion dollars. What's the solution here?
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  Because I looked it up, we it goes up by $1,000,000 every 24
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  seconds. Why do you like the country is
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  so divided right now? It feels like exactly what you
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  just said. It's like, oh, you're not on my
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  team. So anything that person says or
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  if you agree with that person and I'm not on that team, I
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  don't even want to hear it, you know?
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  And it's instant negativity on both sides.
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  I think it's. I think it's the algorithms more
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  than anything. I think it's.
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  I think there is a class of people in this country are very
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  wealthy individuals who control the algorithms that basically
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  dictate our entire lives. Who are those people, though?
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  It's gonna be so fun. It's gonna be good.
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  That is true saying. Not me, but a lot of people say
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  it. I don't.
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  Well, people are telling me. They're probably telling me.
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  But with Trump, he was aligned for the moment in this last
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  election and it was because, one, people were frustrated at
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  us, but it was also he could go do a three hour interview with
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  Joe Rogan and that's the medium of the moment.
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  And Kamala Harris couldn't do that.
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  God love her. She just couldn't.
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  Do it her team. Why did Kamala Harris not do the
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  Joe Rogan podcast? I think her team was.
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  So Mike Nellis, founder of Authentic.
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  And then you've got endless urgency, which you've got over
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  1,000,000 subscribers on sub stack.
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  It was interesting, man, just doing the research and looking
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  you up and like what you're up to.
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  Terrifying. What you might have found.
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  I went deep down a rabbit hole, but it wasn't, it wasn't
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  terrifying, but I started looking at videos and stuff like
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  that. Yeah, 'cause I remember like,
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  you know, I saw Entrepreneur, Investor, and then I started
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  like looking at videos and I saw you on Pierce Morgan, on Tommy
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  Lauren, on Fox News, on News Nation, I think it was.
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  I was like, this dude is all over the place and then I saw
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  what you were talking about and obviously I'm going to get into
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  that and I wanted I definitely want to talk about some
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  political things. I think we have to with you
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  here. Like I think we just can't be
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  like, let's just not talk about politics.
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  Like we got to talk talk about that.
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  So if you are if you are turned off by talking about politics or
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  what's happening in the United States, then you might want to
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  to down now because we're definitely going to get there.
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  Just a quick introduction. Mike Dallas is a leading
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  political strategist, social impact entrepreneur, and
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  investor reshaping the future of American politics.
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  I appreciate you being on the show, man.
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  My first question was did politics get you into
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  entrepreneurship or did entrepreneurship get you into
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  politics? Like trying to put this piece of
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  puzzle together on how you got into all this.
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  Yeah. So I never saw myself as an
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  entrepreneur for a long time. So a little background of me, I
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  dropped out of college when I was 18 to go work for Barack
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  Obama. And I say work as if I was being
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  paid, but I was actually, it was like an unpaid internship that
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  they called a fellowship and a lot of the times.
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  It's like 2007 this. Is 2007.
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  So I grew up in Omaha, NE and I watched Obama give his speech on
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  the steps of the Illinois State Capitol and say I'm running for
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  president, go to my first rally. Look, look what we need now.
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  Everybody's got one. My version is, I don't know if
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  people remember this, but there was a congressman, I forget what
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  his name was, but he he accused Obama of lying in the middle of
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  the State of the Union address. And he would go, it's true.
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  And that's, that's how I get my life.
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  I could just see how because he was so mad, but he couldn't let
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  himself get mad. I could just kind of tell.
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  But I believed in him. And like, I was protesting the
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  Iraq war in high school. And, you know, it was way more
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  complicated than the way I tell it now, but dropped out of
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  college and then really got to be one of the first people to do
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  digital fundraising, digital advertising on the Democratic
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  Party side. Got to be, I think, one of the
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  context leaders that people go to for that.
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  Got to work for Bernie Sanders in 2016.
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  Got to work for Harris for a long time in 19, worked for
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  Biden in 20. And I run one of the largest
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  digital fundraising advertising firms in the space.
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  And I didn't intend to become an entrepreneur, but the company I
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  was at before this sort of completely fell apart due to
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  financial mismanagement and a whole bunch of HR problems with
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  the CEO. And I was like the second person
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  to quit because I was like, I'm not going to put up with this.
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  Can I curse on the show? I can put up with this bullshit.
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  And I think I, you know, everybody has that moment.
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  I think when you're an entrepreneur where you go,
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  you're explaining something to your boss or you're in a
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  situation you're like, damn, am I smarter than you?
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  Do I know? Can I do this better than you?
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  And that was sort of my moment. And so when I've started
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  Authentic built it up from nothing to 50 employees and you
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  know, basically like 5-6 hundred campaigns that we've worked on
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  total in the last couple years raised a billion dollars.
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  And that's crazy. I tell people if if you've ever
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  gotten a fundraising e-mail and you liked it, we wrote it.
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  If you, if you didn't like it, I'd never do it.
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  Nice. So who runs the company now?
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  Are you still actively, actively involved or do you have other
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  people kind of running and managing the day-to-day?
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  Yeah, I, so I, I'm a big believer in the entrepreneurial
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  operating system, which you talk to any entrepreneur about 50%
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  we'll we'll tell you about that. And so I'm the, I'm the
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  visionary of these businesses. My job is to be big picture
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  thinking face of the company, big relationships and everyone
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  as an integrator. So we have John Barnes who's our
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  integrator. He's the CEO of the company that
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  runs it day to. Day.
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  Wow. Yeah.
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  And how long have you been doing that now?
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  We're in year. We're about to enter year 9.
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  Nice. Yeah.
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  And I've been doing this for two decades total.
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  Right. Wow.
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  What would you say to a founder listening or an entrepreneur
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  listening that wants to grow their company?
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  Add people to the, you know, to their roster, but maybe it's
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  stuck in them doing everything themselves.
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  Yeah, it's hard You, you, you can't be a perfectionist.
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  You just have to kind of let people go and do their thing and
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  you can do it in increments. But the more that I've gone all
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  right, I'm going to hire somebody, I'm going to trust
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  that person. I'm try to, we just sold our,
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  our AI tech startup and what happened is, and we can talk
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  about it more if you want to. I got, I had an idea, we built
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  it, created a product, got it off the ground.
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  And then about four months into doing that, I was like, I don't
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  know what I'm doing. Like I don't know anything about
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  an AI tech startup. I don't know anything about SAS.
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  So we hired somebody and I was like, you got to go run this
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  show. You tell me what you need and
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  I'm here. And then we create our
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  accountability chart and I let him go.
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  And ultimately she did a really, really good job.
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  Got us to a point where we sold it about a month ago.
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  Wow, good for you man Congrats. What?
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  What's lifestyle like when you have a fifty person company?
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  I know you're sending vision, there's somebody else obviously
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  running kind of day-to-day CEO type stuff, but what is that
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  like the lifestyle? I honestly, I feel so
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  disconnected from the employees. And, and I had a junior staffer,
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  we used to have an office in downtown Chicago and you would
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  tell me we, we, I had an office, there's like 3 or 4 people in
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  it. And to them, I was the guy that
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  would bring the macaroons on Friday and like be like a, you
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  know, fun loving, regular human to everybody else.
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  We're a very virtual company. So most people don't live in
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  Chicago. They work, you know, in their
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  basement. Basically I'm like a big
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  floating head that shows up for like all hands meetings and
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  something is wrong. I'm there to fix it.
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  So I'm a little bit scary to them.
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  And I, I feel bad about that because I don't think there's
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  anything scary about me. I'm an intense guy, but I'm not
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  just the boss, just the boss, right?
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  And when you're in, you know, when you're 24 and you're in
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  your first job and you're an associate at my firm, like
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  everything is scary to you. You don't know what's important
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  and what's not important. Heck, I'm 37, I don't know
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  what's important anymore. Right.
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  Yeah. So are you in a position where
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  you can kind of do whatever you want to do in terms of, it seems
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  like obviously you're very passionate about the political
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  game, which we'll get into in a little bit, but are you at a
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  position where you can kind of do the stuff that you want to do
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  now? I'm I'm getting there.
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  I don't know, Not, not 100%. Sometimes podcasters make me
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  drive an hour and a half away from my house.
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  No. I'm just giving, I'm just giving
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  you a shit. I think I'm really lucky and
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  blessed to be around a lot of a plus players who believe in what
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  we're trying to do that want to do the work and allow me the
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  freedom to go do other interesting stuff.
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  Because what I've learned about myself is you asked whether, you
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  know, politics got me an entrepreneurship or entrepreneur
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  got me into politics. I think it's probably both a
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  little bit. I like building stuff.
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  I like creating things and I like finding a problem and
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  solving it. So you may intention endless
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  urgency in the content creation that we're doing.
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  A lot of that is solving a problem in the Democratic Party,
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  which is Democrats are bad at making content.
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  Democrats are afraid to go into uncomfortable spaces and have
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  tough conversations with Jesse Watters and Piers Morgan and
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  Tommy Lehren and all these others.
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  And I'm like, you know, I'm a decent enough debater.
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  I'm going to go try to see if I can do it.
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  And so far I haven't embarrassed myself yet.
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  Still time though, there's. Always time.
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  For that. Yeah.
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  And then when it comes to political fundraising, obviously
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  you know a thing or two about that, right?
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  Take us back to because it seems like Obama in 2028 was the first
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  one to really like, at least to my knowledge, was the first one
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  to really use social media to win an election.
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  And now it seems like you kind of you have to use social media
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  and content to win elections, right?
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  Yeah. Was that did you see something
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  different from Brock's campaign and what works in general from a
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  political fundraising standpoint?
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  Yeah. So we went in in a span of.
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  So I was politically active in 2004, but it was mostly just
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  like in my high school. But Howard Dean, who ran for
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  president in the Democratic primary, a lot of people know
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  him as the like. Yeah, Oh, guy.
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  That's what he's unfortunately best known for.
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  Do you know what I'm talking about?
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  No, no, no. So he was the front runner and
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  he lost it. And I always finished in like
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  second or third. And he gave this speech that I
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  would argue to the state and go watch it was fine.
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  But he just like let out this like roaring like, like yippee
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  kind of thing at the end of his speech.
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  He got no for real, though. He got hammered in the media for
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  being like a crazy person. And now you'd watch it.
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  And after you see Donald Trump and many other politicians,
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  you'd go, why are people upset about this?
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  But he lost. But he had this great social
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  media program, this great digital fundraising program that
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  raised a ton of money. And Obama sort of took most of
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  that model and then scaled it up in a way that Hillary Clinton
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  and John Edwards could not in 2007, 2008.
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  And that model became the core of what I started to do for my
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  clients. So I got to learn a little bit
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  by watching, and then I started to go, I think in my first race
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  that was really mine. It was like 2010 for a Senate
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  candidate in North Carolina and raised like $1.2 million or
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  $2,000,000 or something like that.
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  And that to them was like an unbelievable rush of cash that
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  they had never expected. And now these campaigns raise
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  $300 million and Bernie raised 300 million in 20/20/16.
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  That's so crazy, man. It's nuts.
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  How much is focused on raising the money versus getting the
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  right message out there that is going to help them win the
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  election? Yeah, for most campaigns, the
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  money is more important. They they treat and This is why
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  I my company is very different than I think a lot of the other
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  companies in the spaces. Most campaigns treat their
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  supporters online like ATM machines.
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  And that I don't think it's like a breaking news headline.
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  Like if you get a text message from a campaign, you know, it's
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  extremely transactional for sure.
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  My clients come to me like my firm is named authentic
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  specifically because I'm not going to write content that is
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  vapid and boring and basic. So I do Adam Schiff and and you
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  can feel whatever you want about Adam Schiff and Adams politics,
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  but if you get an e-mail or a text message from him, they are
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  in his voice. He cares about what is being
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  said to you. He signs off on them himself.
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  And that's the type of model that we specialize and we work
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  with Gretchen Whitmer, who's the governor of Michigan.
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  Like her emails are very different than Adams on purpose.
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  You go to not all of my competitors, but most of them,
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  you'll find that it's the same e-mail every day.
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  They swap out the names, they swap out the addresses, they
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  swap out a couple other things, but it's the same basic
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  fundamental e-mail and there's no relationship being built.
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  And that drives me crazy because the transactional nature of our
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  politics is part of the reason it's really, really broken.
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  Right. So what did Obama do in 2028, No
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  22,008? What did he do that was so good
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  from a social media standpoint or raising money standpoint or
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  just because it seemed like he was out there and McCain maybe
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  wasn't as much? Yeah, I, I call this this
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  candidate alignment, which is your basically is a smarter way,
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  maybe not smarter way, but a more different way of saying the
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  right man for the right moment, which is he was able to resonate
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  with people online in ways that a lot of other candidates could
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  have. So people were excited to get an
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  e-mail from him. His campaign was a lot less risk
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  averse than a lot of others, so they took a lot of risks.
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  I mean, I remember there's, I forget exactly what the concept
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  is, but there's the idea that there was a certain point where
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  Obama could do anything and it would be successful.
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  Like at one point Obama was running, I think fundraising ads
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  inside of a Halo on Xbox. When you would play online,
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  you'd be killing your friends in Halo and in the background and
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  be like an Obama ad. And they were plus they were
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  positive expected value for them.
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  They were making money on that. And if I did that for any of my
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  candidates in the last 20 years, there's no way that that would
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  have worked. But Obama kind of ascended to
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  that level. That's really about him and the
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  message and the moment and it's part of it.
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  I mean, Trump is the same way. I mean, I'm not a huge fan.
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  You know, Donald Trump will probably get into some of that
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  later. No, I'm not even trying.
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  Not hard to figure that out for anybody watching.
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  But but with Trump, he was aligned for the moment in this
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  last election. And it was because one, people
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  were frustrated at us, but it was also he could go do a three
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  hour interview with Joe Rogan and that's the medium of the
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  moment. And Kamala Harris couldn't do
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  that. God love her.
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  She just couldn't do it. Her team wouldn't.
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  Let her Why did Kamala Harris not do the Joe Rogan podcast?
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  I think her team was too risk averse.
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  I think they were afraid to let her go do that.
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  And the other thing with. What did they think would
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  happen? I don't know.
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  I wasn't on her campaign in this last one.
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  So I mean, I've known Kamala to be incredibly smart, intelligent
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  human being. Her book's out today if people
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  want to go buy it and read it, but I, I don't know, I think it
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  was a mistake. Not to do it.
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  I think they thought she might say something kind of wacky or
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  something. Why can't?
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  Why wouldn't they have confidence in her going on a
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  show? Like Democrats writ large have
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  become so risk averse in everything that they do.
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  We're very poll tested. We're trying not to offend
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  anybody. And a lot of Democratic
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  strategists are playing a game of addition by subtraction.
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  They want to be able to like win by carving out certain things
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  and be like going get these people here and get these people
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  here. And they're not casting a wide
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  net. And Donald Trump came out in the
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  last election and casted the widest possible net that he
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  could. And now he said a lot of stuff
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  that was horrible and ridiculous.
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  And I think he's been a very poor president in the last nine
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  months, but he casted A wider net than we did.
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  And he went on everything I actually would argue he was
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  invited to do. Caller Daddy.
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  Yeah, it's not. I mean, it's not for us.
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  So like, I remember that. But like, you know, caller Daddy
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  and Kamala did that. I watched it.
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  I thought it was a good episode. Like, Trump was invited to do
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  that as well, and he declined. And I think that was a mistake
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  in the same way that, like, Rogan was a mistake.
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  Because if you're Trump and you're seeing, wow, I'm getting
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  crushed with women who don't like me, I'm going to go on
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  here. And like, yeah, 85% of the women
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  who listen to that podcast are absolutely going to hate you,
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  but that 1015% that are open to what you have to say are worth
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  reaching Kamala the same way. Should have gone on Rogan to do
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  that. And the election was decided by
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  180,000 votes in three states. Trump says.
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  It was like a sweeping electoral mandate.
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  It was really close. Oh, from electoral standpoint,
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  it was that close. Yeah, it was if 180,000 people
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  in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan vote differently.
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  Kamala Harris, Three right now. Yeah, because I think you look
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  at the total numbers, which I think was off by a couple
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  million that you look at the electoral, yeah, which is really
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  well, he won, he won. The popular vote by whatever
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  couple million yeah, he's still he's still never gotten over
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  50%, which like I had on forever, but like, you know, we
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  we lost. I'm not, there's no moral
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  victories in politics, but it was close.
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  And we were actually really close to a scenario where Kamala
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  would have won the Electoral College and Trump would have won
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  the popular vote, which I'm that would have been a disaster.
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  I do not think that large parts of this country would have been
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  able to handle that. And that's not the way you want
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  the first black female president to be elected in the environment
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  that we're in now, right? So it also would have been
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  objectively funny on some levels.
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  Before we get too into the, the political stuff, what works in
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  terms of political fundraising? Like if you're going through a
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  campaign right now from scratch and like we need to raise money
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  for this candidate so they can do all these different things,
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  get them in office. What do you think it like, is
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  it, is it obviously social media?
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  But like, what are you booking them on podcasts?
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  Like what's kind of the the strategy?
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  Yeah. So I, you know, I'll liken it to
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  a good movie. And it's you need, if you're
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  watching a Marvel movie and I'm a big Marvel movie guy, you need
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  a hero you find compelling and interesting.
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  You need a villain that has, like, a good story worth telling
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  and you need, like, a good overall plot to it.
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  And so for a candidate, you got to have a candidate that people
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  believe in. Since Barack Obama, people are
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  like hell yeah. And then, you know, with John
• 14:39
  McCain in 2008, probably not the villain that you want, but like
• 14:42
  Sarah Palin was the villain of. That yeah, she.
• 14:44
  Definitely was right. I mean, anybody under like 35 is
• 14:46
  like who you're talking. About yeah, yeah, that's.
• 14:48
  Kind of crazy. But so and then the story is the
• 14:51
  presidential election, right? It's a competitive race, the
• 14:52
  future of the country. It's very self-evident.
• 14:54
  So you go down ballot. That's the same thing too.
• 14:56
  It's you know, if you're a Colin Allred who was the Democratic
• 14:59
  candidate for Senate in Texas last cycle, you know, really
• 15:02
  attractive guy, really smart former football player, former
• 15:05
  member of Congress, you've got an enemy in Ted Cruz.
• 15:07
  Like Ted Cruz is the easiest person to raise money against on
• 15:09
  the planet and he's just very unlikable in my opinion, at
• 15:12
  least to online liberals. And then the race is in Texas.
• 15:15
  It's a big Senate race. You have all those things.
• 15:16
  You immediately have that now you have all the makings of the
• 15:18
  story that you want to tell, which is the race is close.
• 15:20
  We needed to flip the Senate like blah, blah, blah.
• 15:22
  Collins got a story. Ted Cruz is going to be doing so
• 15:24
  the people don't like. And then in the old days, and I
• 15:26
  would say that I'll split my career up in in 2.
• 15:28
  So 10 years ago, before the 2016 election, the way you would
• 15:31
  build your online fundraising apparatus is you would use like
• 15:34
  Facebook ads and you would ask people to sign petitions and
• 15:37
  surveys and stuff like that. And then after 2016 where Russia
• 15:40
  interfered in the election and push fake news.
• 15:42
  And I know a lot of people will get mad at me because that is
• 15:44
  objectively what happened. And Facebook actually just
• 15:47
  basically shut off all political advertising on the platform.
• 15:49
  So it was very hard to be successful to reach the people
• 15:51
  that you wanted. So instead, a lot of democratic
• 15:54
  campaigns have moved to bulkless buy.
• 15:57
  So we'll go out and we'll spend $100,000 to buy a bunch of
• 15:59
  emails. And I like in the difference to
• 16:01
  there's an episode of The Simpsons where Homer and Ned
• 16:04
  Flanders are fishing. And I don't remember the reason
• 16:05
  why, but Ned like very carefully, it's a worm on a, on
• 16:10
  a fishing pole, throws it out there, waits, catches a fish and
• 16:12
  Homer drops a stick of dynamite into the water and it explodes
• 16:14
  and. That sounds about right.
• 16:16
  Yeah. And so that's the difference
• 16:18
  between how fundraising used to be and how it is now.
• 16:19
  So a lot of times we're grabbing 100,000 emails knowing half of
• 16:22
  them will never open and we're hoping that 15,000 of them open
• 16:25
  and become engaged subscribers to the e-mail list.
• 16:27
  And I absolutely hate it. I don't have any alternative.
• 16:30
  I've been trying to come up with a solution to that for 10 years.
• 16:32
  But to get the scale of the amount of money that is
• 16:35
  necessary for these campaigns is really, really important.
• 16:38
  And I'll add one more other thought on this, which is online
• 16:40
  fundraising is a more significant part of the total
• 16:43
  pie for Democratic candidates than Republicans.
• 16:45
  Donald Trump obviously raised a lot of money online, but most
• 16:47
  Republicans don't. And it's probably worth anywhere
• 16:50
  from 30 to 50% of how much a Democratic candidate raises
• 16:54
  where. It's probably more like 10 or
• 16:55
  20% for a Republican. So it's almost twice as much.
• 16:58
  And part of that is we're not taking corporate PAC money
• 16:59
  anymore. The billionaire class doesn't
• 17:01
  support the Democratic Party the way that it used to, although we
• 17:03
  have our fair share of billionaires that support us.
• 17:05
  And so it's more important. And so the pressure is more on
• 17:08
  Democratic strategies. And that's why everything feels
• 17:10
  so intense in people's in boxes. I think it's been a net negative
• 17:13
  to democracy overall. I'm actually, I think we run the
• 17:16
  most ethical programs in the space.
• 17:17
  But like, I'm sort of embarrassed by where the
• 17:19
  industry has turned. So it sounds like you guys come
• 17:22
  in and kind of develop a brand story or a narrative for the
• 17:25
  campaign first, right? Is that something when you come
• 17:27
  into campaign, do the elected officials or the soon to be
• 17:30
  elected officials, the ones that are running, do they have sort
• 17:33
  of that narrative and the hero and the villain and that kind of
• 17:35
  stuff? Are they coming to you guys
• 17:36
  saying hey, we don't really have much you?
• 17:39
  Know. Very few of them do.
• 17:40
  You would be shocked at the number of candidates that don't
• 17:42
  know why they're running. You'd be shocked at the number
• 17:44
  who don't know I. Actually wouldn't be shocked
• 17:45
  because we do marketing and companies are like we have no
• 17:47
  clue why we're different or what we stand for.
• 17:49
  Imagine if like you were selling for Coca-Cola, like we don't
• 17:52
  know what stands for. That's like every conversation I
• 17:54
  have position like why are you running?
• 17:56
  You should be able to articulate that for me in like 2 years or
• 17:58
  sentences like I am this, I'm this unique person, blah, blah,
• 18:00
  blah. Can't do that.
• 18:01
  So I do have to do that for a lot of my my clients.
• 18:03
  Now, some of them come fully formed and fleshed out.
• 18:06
  Some of them that that fleshed out.
• 18:07
  And this happens over time, right?
• 18:09
  I work with Mallory Mcmorrow, who's running for Senate in
• 18:11
  Michigan. I think she's one of the
• 18:13
  brightest young stars Democrats have.
• 18:14
  She has such a clear understanding of who she is and
• 18:17
  what she believes in that she's one of the few candidates that
• 18:19
  actually will push back and tell me no when I say something.
• 18:21
  I might go, you should say this or you should put this out in an
• 18:24
  e-mail and she'll go, I don't talk that way.
• 18:25
  That's not how I treat people. And I'm, I'm delighted when
• 18:28
  candidates do that because I'm always trying to fill the gaps.
• 18:31
  And, you know, I've had candidates that have never
• 18:33
  looked at a single thing I've ever written for them.
• 18:34
  And I've had no problem putting out a fundraising e-mail in
• 18:36
  there. I've had candidates that Dick
• 18:37
  Durbin, who's our senator here in Illinois, he's retiring this
• 18:40
  year, used to handwrite edits to fundraising e-mail.
• 18:43
  So his team, I would send it over to Google Doc, they'd print
• 18:45
  it, he'd make Henry edits and they would fax it to me.
• 18:48
  I had to buy a fax machine and I preferred that.
• 18:51
  Maybe not structurally, but I preferred it like ethically to
• 18:55
  what a lot of campaigns do is they don't care what we said.
• 18:57
  So you're big on sub stack? Obviously I am got over
• 18:59
  1,000,000 subscribers there. Is that something that from the
• 19:02
  political sphere that people should be doing?
• 19:04
  Yeah, I think, I mean, I think every political candidate should
• 19:06
  be on sub stack right now, Democrat or Republican.
• 19:08
  And this, there's been a massive exodus off of X and Elon Musk
• 19:13
  doesn't want to hear this, but there are fewer and fewer people
• 19:15
  who are actually on X who are engaging.
• 19:17
  A lot of what you see is if you go look at like a Matt Walsh or
• 19:19
  one of these like MAGA influencer guys and you see
• 19:21
  they're getting like 500,000 retweets on their post.
• 19:25
  A lot of it's fake and it's a lot of bots.
• 19:28
  It's a lot of foreign bots. And they're elevating and
• 19:30
  lifting these people up. I'm not saying there isn't real
• 19:31
  people on there who are engaging.
• 19:33
  It's still a very important site.
• 19:34
  I have my own X account at Mike Nellis if you want to follow.
• 19:37
  But a lot of that engagement is fake.
• 19:39
  And so a lot of those people, particularly like left and left
• 19:42
  of center people move to Substack.
• 19:44
  They also went to blue sky, which you know, a lot has been
• 19:47
  written about blue sky not being a very fun place.
• 19:49
  It's kind of that that one liberal, all blue skies like
• 19:51
  that one liberal I've. Heard about it, but I'll.
• 19:54
  I'll give you like my example of it because I was for.
• 19:57
  I don't know if I still am. I was like in their top 100
• 19:59
  people who were followed. I have like a. 150. 5 or
• 20:01
  something on on Blue sky and last year towards the tail end
• 20:04
  of the college football season. I'm a big Notre Dame football
• 20:06
  fan. I was traveling the country to
• 20:08
  follow them in the playoffs and the the game was over.
• 20:11
  I was at the bar, I was in my hotel room.
• 20:13
  I'm watching the other game. It was Texas and Arizona State
• 20:16
  probably and Pat Matt that they had a Pat McAfee live stream
• 20:21
  where you could watch Pat and the little crew that he has from
• 20:23
  the show. And I was tweeting like, man, I
• 20:25
  really enjoying this Pat McAfee, you know, stream more than the
• 20:28
  regular commentators and basically like got like 400
• 20:31
  comments from people that were like Pat Mcafee's a sexist and a
• 20:33
  horrible human being and how dare you say anything good about
• 20:35
  him. And I was like, man, I'm trying
• 20:37
  to watch football. Like, you know, and it's not
• 20:38
  that I'm not with you, like I'm I'm with you like on the issues
• 20:41
  and stuff, but like, can I just turn my brain off every now and
• 20:43
  again? And blue sky is kind of hard to
• 20:45
  do that. It's like anytime you say
• 20:46
  anything, it's like you're kind of against it and X is the same
• 20:48
  way, but in the other way. If I, you know, if I say the sky
• 20:51
  is blue, a bunch of people in MAGA world are going to tell me
• 20:53
  sky is green and I'm just sort of over the extremism on both of
• 20:57
  it and I'm not there. There are things I'm pretty
• 20:59
  liberal on and there are things I'm pretty conservative on.
• 21:01
  Like I tend to believe in a flexible mindset.
• 21:03
  Like do you have a good idea? Like we haven't solved a real
• 21:05
  problem in America in like a decade, it feels like.
• 21:07
  So you got a good idea. Can we build a road?
• 21:10
  I don't know. So I just substack.
• 21:11
  I found it's like a good way to build a relationship with
• 21:14
  people. Sub Stacks kind of got, they've
• 21:16
  got a Twitter sort of similar thing integration called Notes.
• 21:19
  They've got their newsletter format, they've got live video,
• 21:21
  and I've really enjoyed just getting to know my audience on
• 21:24
  that. It's really cool.
• 21:25
  Why do you feel like the country is so divided right now?
• 21:27
  It feels like exactly what you just said.
• 21:29
  It's like, oh, you're not on my team.
• 21:31
  So anything that person says, or if you agree with that person
• 21:34
  and I'm not on that team, I don't even want to hear it.
• 21:37
  You know when it's instant negativity on both sides?
• 21:39
  I think it's, I think it's the algorithms more than anything.
• 21:42
  I think it's, I think there is a class of people in this country
• 21:45
  of very wealthy individuals who control the algorithms that
• 21:48
  basically dictate our entire lives.
• 21:50
  Who are those people? Though I think Mark Zuckerberg,
• 21:52
  Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, list goes on and on, right?
• 21:54
  The people who are running the social media you.
• 21:56
  Think people are controlling them?
• 21:57
  I don't know. I mean, I'm not, you know that
• 21:59
  you're maybe 2 steps steps deeper into the in the, the the
• 22:02
  conspiracy theory that I am. I just like I'm.
• 22:03
  Just asking questions, I don't even know anything.
• 22:05
  Though is like we're, we're living in a society where you
• 22:07
  are incentivized to be the most bombastic version of yourself.
• 22:11
  And I follow this like I'm a content creator.
• 22:13
  I go viral. Like I currently have a tweet
• 22:14
  that's got like 200,000 retweets on Twitter.
• 22:16
  I don't know how much of it's real, but it's like Tylenol is
• 22:19
  going to sue the fuck out of the United States in a bankruptcy or
• 22:21
  something like that. And like, funny, just something
• 22:22
  I said out loud and I went and then I wrote it down and I
• 22:24
  posted it. But like, I can kind of always
• 22:26
  see the way to be like more bombastic and really go down
• 22:30
  that rabbit hole. And you see this with this, like
• 22:32
  what happened to Charlie Kirk in the last 10 days.
• 22:34
  So Kirk's murder is horrendous. It's an attack on all Americans.
• 22:37
  I did not like Charlie Kirk in this life.
• 22:39
  I didn't agree with anything, but like, he doesn't deserve
• 22:41
  that. And that's not what should
• 22:42
  happen. But now you've got the entire
• 22:45
  conservative ecosystem from the minute it happened saying the
• 22:48
  most bombastic, ridiculous stuff to blame Democrats for this when
• 22:52
  we still don't even really know anything about the shooter.
• 22:53
  And then on the left, you have a ton of creators out there that
• 22:56
  are talking about how the guys are a griper, which for those
• 22:58
  who don't know, is like a very, very far right person associated
• 23:01
  with like a Nick Fuentes type. And they're like, here's this
• 23:04
  evidence and let me get this, who I found this Facebook post.
• 23:06
  It might be him, but it's not him.
• 23:07
  And they're going back and forth.
• 23:07
  They're trying to define the shooter all so that they can
• 23:10
  make their career rewards, so they can get more engagement and
• 23:13
  more growth and become more of a focal point.
• 23:14
  And none of these people are telling the truth.
• 23:16
  But is. That an algorithm thing or is
• 23:17
  that a people thing? I think, well, I think it, it
• 23:20
  isn't incentives. But isn't the algorithm just a
• 23:23
  reaction of how the people view the comment?
• 23:25
  If they stop on the post, like the post comment on it, it gets
• 23:28
  shown to more people. Sure, but the algorithm is also
• 23:30
  pushing it into your feed, and then it's incentivizing the
• 23:32
  creators to act in a certain way.
• 23:34
  But it's pushing your feed based on what you're interested in
• 23:36
  usually. Not really.
• 23:37
  I feel like it's pushing. I think it's pushing more the
• 23:39
  other way. I feel like it's you're getting
• 23:41
  a lot of things that are shoved in your face and over time,
• 23:44
  isn't it? But isn't it kind of creating
• 23:45
  the ecosystem where it's it's publishing or pushing things in
• 23:48
  your feed that you it thinks you're interested in?
• 23:50
  Right, based on the interest graph, but it thinks you're
• 23:52
  interested in. Because of past behavior.
• 23:54
  It's also down grading things that it that you might be
• 23:56
  interested in too. And So what what I'm worried
• 23:58
  about is, again, it's an incentives thing.
• 24:00
  So if the best way for me to go viral is to post the most
• 24:04
  bombastic thing that I can so that I can be like, you know,
• 24:07
  Charlie Kirk was murdered by a dangerous trans person, blah,
• 24:10
  blah, blah, that not, and I'm going to post that because all I
• 24:14
  care about is making money. So now you're self regulated as
• 24:16
  a creator. Like I'm making my own morality
• 24:18
  decisions. And because I want to try to get
• 24:20
  it right and not lie to people or be the worst version of
• 24:24
  myself. I, I, I grow more slowly because
• 24:26
  of that. I mean, I have a big audience.
• 24:27
  I have like 2 million people across all platforms, but like,
• 24:30
  I could be a lot bigger if I wanted to be.
• 24:32
  And I think that is the algorithms.
• 24:34
  And I also think that that class of people want us at each
• 24:37
  other's throats. And I think that the the
• 24:39
  billionaire class. And then look, I'm not much of
• 24:41
  like a class war guy, but I am coming around to this idea,
• 24:43
  which is there are very wealthy and very powerful people who
• 24:46
  want you to hate your neighbor. They want you to be mad at your
• 24:48
  dad because he voted for Trump. They want you to be mad at your
• 24:50
  college friend because they voted for the wrong candidate.
• 24:51
  They want you to think less of them and they want you to be
• 24:53
  more isolated. And so now we're more connected
• 24:55
  than we've ever been before. Like I can pick up the phone and
• 24:58
  call anybody that I want to have a FaceTime with them.
• 24:59
  I can, you know, go live right now and get 100,000 people
• 25:02
  watching if I really want to. I'm more connected, but I'm more
• 25:05
  isolated at the same time, the same time cuz that connection is
• 25:07
  not the same. And so we're angrier at each
• 25:09
  other and I'm tired of it. Like I'm tired.
• 25:11
  I don't hate people who voted for the other candidate.
• 25:13
  I don't, no. But who are the people that are
• 25:16
  doing that, you're saying? I think it's the same people.
• 25:18
  Yeah, I think it's. Musk, Mark Zuckerberg and a
• 25:21
  group of people are dividing the entire country.
• 25:24
  Yes, really. Yeah.
• 25:25
  And I think it's the August now. Maybe they don't mean to.
• 25:27
  Now what? But what evidence do you have of
• 25:29
  that though? I'm I'm just looking at how.
• 25:31
  I'm not disagreeing, I'm just I'm.
• 25:32
  Just looking at how the world works, I mean, if you're asking
• 25:33
  for like a scientific study that shows up to you, I, I don't have
• 25:36
  it, but I'm, I'm going man. Everything in society is
• 25:39
  incentivizing you to lie about your life.
• 25:41
  You want to be an influencer. The, the, the, the path to
• 25:44
  become an influencer is not to become really good at something
• 25:46
  and like build a business, come up with an idea, sell it.
• 25:48
  It's to like make funny TikTok video.
• 25:50
  So now everything is geared towards that.
• 25:52
  You want to be like somebody who people listen to about politics.
• 25:55
  You aggressively push things that aren't true.
• 25:57
  And you know, I, it's really unbelievable to me and it and
• 26:00
  it, and it's wrong. And like I, I'm super frustrated
• 26:03
  with it. And then I feel like we all hate
• 26:04
  each other and like, I, I'm, I'm not going to do it anymore.
• 26:07
  And I do think the algorithms play a huge role in that.
• 26:10
  Yeah. I don't think it's the only
• 26:11
  thing. Like, obviously we have
• 26:11
  politicians that have let us down.
• 26:12
  We have institutions that have let us down too.
• 26:14
  Oh for sure, leadership issues. Right.
• 26:16
  Like, Congress has not regulated social media in any meaningful
• 26:19
  way. And there was a hearing either
• 26:20
  last year at the tail end of 2023 where a bunch of parents
• 26:24
  whose kids had like, hurt themselves because of Facebook
• 26:26
  were testifying in front, I believe, of Mark Zuckerberg for
• 26:29
  this. And he had to listen all of
• 26:30
  that, right? And it was really horrible.
• 26:32
  But like, Congress was blaming Mark Zuckerberg.
• 26:34
  And don't get me wrong, Zuckerberg is absolutely
• 26:36
  responsible for that as the founder of Facebook.
• 26:38
  Where's Congress's responsibility and not
• 26:40
  regulating that? They're doing the same thing
• 26:41
  with AI right now. AI is killing the job market
• 26:43
  right now. 0 regulation, zero chance.
• 26:46
  This is the least effective Congress in my lifetime, which
• 26:48
  is really saying something. What would you want them to do
• 26:49
  to Facebook or TikTok or whatever else though?
• 26:51
  I would want them to create, well, 1.
• 26:54
  I believe in like algorithmic transparency, like I think that
• 26:56
  they should have to put online what the algorithm is and what
• 26:58
  it says. And they're not going to want to
• 26:59
  do that because those are are are are proprietary things that
• 27:02
  they want to protect. But I think people have a right
• 27:04
  to know what the algorithm says and what it's gearing towards.
• 27:07
  And then there should be some sort of government oversight of
• 27:09
  that. Not because I want the
• 27:09
  government to like stifle, like, look, the government is not a
• 27:12
  perfect institution and you're talking to a Democrat.
• 27:15
  So the knock on me will be I want the government to fix and
• 27:17
  solve anything. But I would argue the knock on
• 27:19
  the Republicans is, well, when this version of the Republican
• 27:21
  Party really does believe in big government, like with Donald
• 27:23
  Trump, they love using the power of the federal government to do
• 27:25
  whatever they want. You can feel however you want
• 27:27
  about Jimmy Kimmel. And I don't particularly find
• 27:28
  Jimmy Kimmel funny. But a couple days ago, Donald
• 27:30
  Trump used the power of the FCC to get Jimmy Kimmel taken off
• 27:32
  the air. Now he's coming back on the air
• 27:34
  tonight at the time that we're recording.
• 27:35
  This. Yeah.
• 27:36
  That wasn't right. Yeah.
• 27:36
  It wasn't it, wasn't he. Didn't say anything that crazy
• 27:38
  either. No, I.
• 27:39
  Really didn't think what he said I.
• 27:40
  Don't think Jimmy Kimmel is funny either.
• 27:41
  No, but I looked at what he said and I was like.
• 27:44
  How did that get him? I was like, this is it?
• 27:45
  Yeah, I couldn't. I was like.
• 27:47
  I thought he said something crazy like Charlie, you know,
• 27:49
  like just something out of this world.
• 27:51
  And I saw that and I was like, all right, whether you agree
• 27:53
  agree with that or not, doesn't he have the right to say?
• 27:56
  That yes, well, I'll tell you he doesn't have the right to a talk
• 27:59
  show. Like that's the thing it's like,
• 28:01
  so if ABC as Charlie or as excuse me, if ABC is Jimmy
• 28:04
  Kimmel's employer was you said something wrong, We believe it's
• 28:08
  wrong. They have the right to spend
• 28:09
  them with that. What happened that wasn't ABC
• 28:11
  didn't think it was problematic. They were like, maybe we don't
• 28:13
  like it, but we don't think it's problematic.
• 28:15
  The FCC stepping in and saying we'll take away your license,
• 28:17
  that's what's wrong. So conservatives have been
• 28:19
  comparing it to what happened to Roseanne Barr.
• 28:20
  For those who don't remember 7 years ago, Roseanne Barr took
• 28:23
  too much Ambien said something incredibly racist on the
• 28:26
  Internet. I think about Valerie Jarrett,
• 28:27
  who wasn't about advisor and then got herself fired from a
• 28:30
  pretty popular revival of her TV show, right?
• 28:32
  And you could argue that that wasn't fair or that maybe they
• 28:34
  should have given her some grace or an opportunity to apologize.
• 28:36
  Fine, I'll accept those arguments.
• 28:38
  I don't necessarily agree with them.
• 28:39
  But ABC said you are too much of A risk to the business.
• 28:42
  We're going to fire you. And if you listen to Roseanne,
• 28:44
  and this is what Roseanne said like 3 days ago in the Jimmy
• 28:46
  Kimmel stuff, haven't She was like, Obama got me fired.
• 28:48
  The Obama administration got me fired.
• 28:50
  Donald Trump was president when she got fired.
• 28:52
  So they're like so much of the, and you know, I don't know how
• 28:56
  deep you want me to go in this, but like, so much of my problem
• 28:58
  with like today's Republican Party is it's all built on
• 29:00
  grievance. Everything is like, it's not
• 29:02
  about solving a problem. It's not about improving your
• 29:04
  life. It's I'm mad about this thing
• 29:07
  that happened to this person at this time, and I'm going to get
• 29:09
  my revenge on it. And I get it.
• 29:12
  I'm mad about a lot of stuff too.
• 29:13
  There's plenty of things that have happened in my political
• 29:15
  career that I stick to. I'm still mad about what
• 29:18
  happened with Brett Kavanaugh getting appointed to the Supreme
• 29:20
  Court. But when I wake up in the
• 29:21
  morning, I'm not thinking about how to avenge that.
• 29:22
  I'm thinking about how to help people put food on the table.
• 29:24
  I'm thinking about how to retire with dignity because people are
• 29:26
  struggling right now and they can't even survive, let alone,
• 29:29
  like, thrive and take a vacation.
• 29:31
  And as entrepreneurs, we should be really worried about this
• 29:33
  because I need people to buy my products, you know, I need
• 29:37
  somebody. That's going to write.
• 29:38
  I run a small dollar online fundraising company.
• 29:41
  If people can't afford to give $5 to the candidates, I believe
• 29:43
  them because the economy is so bad, I'm screwed.
• 29:45
  My candidates aren't going to hire me.
• 29:46
  So we need an economy that functions appropriately.
• 29:49
  And I want to solve that. And I feel like today's
• 29:52
  Republican Party is so focused on career events and it's just
• 29:55
  focused on that. And they're so mad about stuff.
• 29:56
  They're not solving anything. And it is not to say the
• 29:59
  Democratic Party is perfect. We can spend all day talking
• 30:00
  about that, too. I have a lot of tough ones from
• 30:02
  my party. I feel like I got so far away
• 30:04
  from the. Original.
• 30:05
  No, it's it's fine. It's good.
• 30:05
  It's. What happens when you bring me
• 30:07
  on? I just rant and.
• 30:08
  I do, I do think that social media it's, it's obviously done
• 30:13
  a lot of good and things like that, but I do think it's done
• 30:15
  quite a bit of harm too in terms of our culture, society, that
• 30:18
  kind of stuff. But to me, I think part of the
• 30:21
  reason we're so divided too is we just lack leadership.
• 30:24
  I think we don't sometimes know who we are anymore.
• 30:26
  You know, it's like kind of two sides fighting at each other and
• 30:28
  it's like, what do we stand for as a country anymore?
• 30:31
  And who, who are we? And I don't know, I mean, you
• 30:34
  know what I mean? Like, I think, and I'm not an
• 30:36
  expert in this, this is my world, but just from an
• 30:38
  outsider, I guess, not an outsider, but a citizen looking
• 30:41
  in and observing what's happening.
• 30:43
  It just feels like where are the candidates or the people that
• 30:46
  really care about the country and that want to bring us
• 30:48
  together and that push your ego aside and are willing to do
• 30:51
  what's right and, and you know what I mean?
• 30:53
  And bring both sides together because everyone, a lot of words
• 30:56
  have been set around doing that, but it doesn't feel like it
• 30:59
  actually happens, right? You know, nobody wants to solve
• 31:02
  any issue in America today, like it's too risky to solve an
• 31:05
  issue. So we're just languishing in
• 31:07
  this sort of unknown. And you use a word that's really
• 31:09
  important to me, which is citizen.
• 31:10
  And I think that people don't know how to be a citizen in this
• 31:14
  country at this moment of time. And again, I come back to
• 31:16
  incentive structures because in my view, everything in society
• 31:20
  right now is gearing you towards being the most selfish version
• 31:23
  of yourself. And my dad used to have this
• 31:25
  concept of, you know, my dad's a big conservative, voted for
• 31:28
  Donald Trump three times, is a 34 year better than the FBI.
• 31:31
  And my dad would say, I have a responsibility to take care of
• 31:33
  my people, OK, which is me, my brothers, my mom, that's it.
• 31:36
  He's like, I don't have any responsibility to anybody else
• 31:38
  unless I have the time to do it. And when I was younger, I
• 31:40
  thought that was really selfish. And now as I've gotten older,
• 31:42
  I'm like, OK, I think that that's right.
• 31:44
  But I want to go a little bit further.
• 31:45
  And, and to me, I'm trying to come up with this model of how
• 31:47
  to be a citizen in America. They haven't quite flushed it
• 31:49
  out. So I'll sit here and then people
• 31:50
  can tell me why I'm wrong. But I there is a concentric
• 31:52
  circle in the middle here, which is yourself.
• 31:54
  You have a responsibility to make sure that you are mentally,
• 31:57
  physically, digitally strong. Spiritually strong too, is
• 32:00
  another one that I think is really important.
• 32:01
  And then your next concentric circle is your family and your
• 32:04
  community and then your local community and then your nation.
• 32:07
  And so part of The thing is, and I think social media plays a
• 32:09
  role in this is one you're incentivized to be the worst
• 32:12
  version of yourself. So like, nobody's going to give
• 32:14
  you, you know, 10,000 likes on your Facebook page for like
• 32:17
  going to picking up trash on the street, but they're definitely
• 32:18
  going to be 10,000 like saying something nasty about somebody
• 32:21
  they hate on the. Internet, but on the flip side,
• 32:22
  I've seen a lot of videos and I've watched some that have gone
• 32:25
  viral. People helping homeless people,
• 32:27
  which is nice. Giving back.
• 32:28
  But I think for everyone of. Those.
• 32:30
  But that's more in my feed than that stuff than the other stuff
• 32:32
  is. That's what I'm saying.
• 32:33
  Imagine if the algorithms were repro programmed to incentivize
• 32:36
  people to be like that. Because the problem is, yes,
• 32:39
  you're right, there's a ton of stuff that goes viral like that.
• 32:41
  There's also funny cat videos and.
• 32:42
  Stupid shit and like. You know, I've been rewatching,
• 32:44
  like, my wife's been Joey. I've been rewatching The
• 32:46
  Godfather one TikTok at a time because everybody's like 3-1 is
• 32:49
  just like another Godfather. Yeah.
• 32:51
  And it's not bad. It's really a really good movie.
• 32:54
  We're going to become like a stereotype.
• 32:56
  We're just two dudes talking about.
• 32:58
  There's a whole scene in the Barbie movie.
• 32:59
  Have you seen the Barbie movie? That scene where they have
• 33:01
  talked about The Godfather? Like, I literally slunk in my
• 33:03
  chair feeling like I'd been under attack.
• 33:07
  But imagine if the algorithm was reversed.
• 33:09
  So instead of one out of every 10, the thing, if it's one to 10
• 33:12
  of like nasty political cultural response stuff to, you know,
• 33:15
  good human stuff, and you flip that around now you would be
• 33:18
  incentivizing people to act in a particular way to show different
• 33:21
  parts of their lives and different people would rise to
• 33:23
  the top. I would argue that right now,
• 33:25
  and this is true on both sides. I don't think this is just a
• 33:27
  Republican issue. It's the worst type of people
• 33:30
  are rising to the top, people who do not care.
• 33:33
  And there's there's one layer deeper on that I'll go.
• 33:36
  You mentioned earlier, I do a lot of TV.
• 33:37
  I'm on Fox News, I go on MSNBC. I met with a producer for a very
• 33:42
  prominent show. I'm not going to say which one.
• 33:43
  And they asked me what my character was.
• 33:45
  They were like, what's your character that you bring into
• 33:47
  the show? And I'm like, I don't have a
• 33:48
  character like this is me. Like the same person that you're
• 33:50
  talking to is the same person Jesse Water is going to talk to
• 33:52
  when I'm on the show tomorrow. So I'm not interested in like
• 33:55
  modulating who I am in the moment.
• 33:57
  Now I've come up with like an answer to this.
• 33:59
  I'm a big pro wrestling fan. I've loved pro since I was a
• 34:01
  kid. I still watch it to this day.
• 34:03
  There's a there's a guy named Kevin Owens who's professor
• 34:06
  professional wrestler and his gimmick is that he watches the
• 34:08
  show like he remembers the things that happens and he
• 34:10
  brings it back up because in wrestling, like nothing matters.
• 34:13
  Like it's like you could be a good guy one day, a bad guy the
• 34:15
  next day. You can, you know, run
• 34:16
  somebody's father over with a car and the next week your tag,
• 34:19
  you're in A tag match with them and nobody cares the wiser.
• 34:21
  So Kevin will often remind people of that.
• 34:23
  That's my character relative to what they want, which is I'll
• 34:26
  come in and remember what happens.
• 34:28
  I'll remember what you said, I'll remember what Donald Trump
• 34:30
  said, I'll remember what I said and I'll come in.
• 34:32
  But I'm still myself. Like I'm not modulating who I am
• 34:35
  based on where I am. I might I curse a little bit
• 34:36
  less here than I do on my show because this is a lot nicer of a
• 34:39
  setup than mine. But, you know, people are
• 34:41
  playing characters, and I think you're now incentivizing people
• 34:44
  to boister their characters, and that's leading everybody down a
• 34:47
  darker path. On the algorithm, the social
• 34:49
  thing though, when I look at my feed it pretty much keeps
• 34:53
  showing me things that I have watched or clicked on or I'm
• 34:56
  interested in. So if I'm seeing negative stuff,
• 35:00
  how much of it is the person choosing to continue to get
• 35:02
  sucked into that stuff? I think it depends on the social
• 35:05
  site, like which site are you most likely to be.
• 35:06
  On YouTube. YouTube Youtubes algorithm, I
• 35:09
  would argue is really good at identifying what you like and
• 35:11
  dislike in the shorts and it will kind of feed that in and
• 35:14
  out like I like. That's where I get my godfather
• 35:15
  clips, right? If you're on X, like if you're
• 35:18
  like, if you're politically active, if you care about her
• 35:19
  politics, like you're probably on X, you know, and you might be
• 35:21
  on threads would be the other one.
• 35:23
  But X's algorithm is aggressively pushing the worst
• 35:26
  type of person. You know, you log in, you get
• 35:28
  Laura Loomer stuff like right now, folks that don't know Laura
• 35:30
  Loomer is probably one of the most toxic people on the planet
• 35:33
  in my opinion. She's also unfortunately a huge
• 35:35
  yeah, exactly. Try to keep it that way would be
• 35:37
  my advice. But she's got 2 million
• 35:38
  followers online and she is a purveyor of conspiracy theory.
• 35:41
  She's very close to the president United States.
• 35:43
  If you log in, she's the first thing that you see because
• 35:45
  that's what X's algorithm wants you to see.
• 35:47
  So that's an example of there's, I think there's an accidental
• 35:50
  algorithmic problem. And then there's like
• 35:52
  intentional, so Elon bot X specifically to put his foot
• 35:55
  down on the pedal. Now, he would tell you, well,
• 35:57
  they've been suppressing conservative voices and all I'm
• 36:00
  doing is elevating them to prove that there's more conservative
• 36:02
  voices in the country. And I would argue that's really
• 36:04
  not the case. It's probably a perspective
• 36:05
  conversation. I don't think the data back set
• 36:07
  up either. But then there's accidental
• 36:08
  problems, which is, you know, on Instagram, like you're going to
• 36:10
  be incentivized more for posting a photo of you where you appear
• 36:13
  rich or you appear successful than if you post something about
• 36:15
  a guy had a bad day and everything was.
• 36:16
  But I think that's society's view on that stuff.
• 36:19
  They think it's cool, right? They're like, I want to be rich,
• 36:22
  I want to have the Lambo, I want to have this.
• 36:24
  I think the same thing would happen if in real life, if you
• 36:27
  drove a Lambo down the street. We're all flashy, nice watches,
• 36:30
  all the stuff. I think people are going to
• 36:31
  react. If you're driving a shitty car
• 36:33
  and trying to help someone, it's not as entertaining.
• 36:36
  A little bit I'll I'll cop to that.
• 36:38
  Like, I think that that's basic human nature, but I'll also say
• 36:40
  like, we need more people that are.
• 36:41
  Going to, that's what I think a lot of it is.
• 36:42
  I'm not disputing that certain channels push certain things.
• 36:45
  I think that'd be naive to not think a. 100% you want you want
• 36:48
  me to argue with a straight face, but NBC is not a liberal
• 36:51
  and Fox News obviously conservative Fox News very
• 36:53
  moderate, fair and balanced. They'll remind you about 10
• 36:57
  times an hour that's. Funny.
• 36:58
  That's actually funny. One of the Fox hosts sent me a
• 37:01
  T-shirt that said fair balance and I was like, are you fucking
• 37:04
  kidding me? So that's funny, but my point is
• 37:07
  I think it is more of a culture thing and an identity thing of
• 37:11
  the United States, and you need leadership and people to bring
• 37:15
  this country together. And I don't know how you do
• 37:17
  that. I don't know, but it's not
• 37:19
  what's happening now. Well, I'll tell you some of it
• 37:21
  is that we've got to reach out to the other side like yes, we
• 37:23
  just can't. And like my party again being.
• 37:25
  Egos have to go aside. Egos have to go aside for sure.
• 37:28
  My party's so risk averse and so afraid to.
• 37:31
  Kamala's got to go on the freaking Joe Rogan.
• 37:33
  Yes, Kamala has to go on Joe Rogan.
• 37:34
  They change. That will they do that next
• 37:35
  time? Do you think so?
• 37:36
  Yes, whoever our nominee is, and I have no idea who that person
• 37:39
  is. Going to be.
• 37:39
  You don't have any idea, you know.
• 37:41
  No, I know we're. Gonna we had a guess.
• 37:43
  I give you a billion dollars if we get it right, No.
• 37:45
  Billion dollars. Yeah, I'll give if I had it in
• 37:48
  cash, I said if you guess the next.
• 37:50
  If you have a billion dollars, what the hell are you doing
• 37:52
  running this? Podcast well, I don't, but if I
• 37:53
  did, if I did it's. Like a Scott's tots probably
• 37:57
  like now you have like 3 years to find a billion dollars.
• 37:59
  Yes, if I had a billion dollars here and I said you will get
• 38:03
  this if you get it right, who's going to be the next Democratic?
• 38:06
  Candidate. I really don't know because it's
• 38:08
  such a crapshoot and like, I can.
• 38:09
  Tell you, is that just you don't want to say.
• 38:11
  I can tell you who I'd want it to be.
• 38:12
  No. I mean, I think if it was today,
• 38:13
  it'd be Gavin Newsom, because Newsom is the hottest thing
• 38:15
  since sliced bread. But I don't typically care for
• 38:17
  Newsom and I don't think that Newsom will last the the moment.
• 38:23
  Like Newsom is the is the number one guy right now because he's
• 38:25
  fighting on this gerrymandering stuff.
• 38:27
  I'm in California, which is ridiculous.
• 38:29
  I mean, I'm glad that he's doing it relative to what happened in
• 38:31
  Texas, But what happened in Texas was egregious.
• 38:33
  And now Democrats have to respond, but you know, if it's
• 38:36
  me and I'm just plucking somebody that I want, I want
• 38:38
  like a Gretchen Wimber and she's the governor of Michigan serious
• 38:41
  person works across the aisle, get shit done, cares about
• 38:44
  people have gotten a senior behind the scenes.
• 38:46
  Like that's the kind of Democrat that I want.
• 38:47
  I want somebody like out of Washington.
• 38:49
  I think the Washington establishment in both the
• 38:51
  Democratic. And Republican.
• 38:52
  Parties are broken and I want somebody that's like actually
• 38:55
  has had to do some work and build something with their
• 38:57
  hands. So we'd be like her.
• 38:58
  I love JB Pritzker. I think he's a very good
• 39:00
  governor for the state of Illinois.
• 39:03
  I like Governor Shapiro in Pennsylvania.
• 39:04
  I like Andy Brusher in Kentucky. So that's what I looking for.
• 39:06
  And I would add my one addendum to that is I would add a Pete
• 39:09
  Buttigieg on there. So I always say it's the
• 39:10
  governor plus Pete is like where I would be looking for the
• 39:13
  future direction of the Democratic Party.
• 39:15
  But I don't know. I think our party is wide open.
• 39:16
  I think the Republican Party is wide open.
• 39:18
  I wouldn't be shocked if the 2028 presidential election was
• 39:20
  like Stephen A Smith versus Tucker Carlson.
• 39:23
  It wouldn't be shocking if if a time traveller showed up and
• 39:25
  told me that, I'd go, yeah, seems right.
• 39:27
  I'm not sure there's any candidates.
• 39:28
  Stephen A Smith, the Democrat. Stephen A Smith, I think, is an
• 39:30
  independent that flirts with running as a Democrat.
• 39:33
  OK, Yeah. Yeah, I think that's like his
• 39:34
  kind. Of he seems like in the middle.
• 39:36
  He's playing a character. He's doing.
• 39:37
  You think he is. He's doing his thing.
• 39:38
  They're, they all are. Every single one.
• 39:40
  Maybe not every one of them, but like most of them.
• 39:42
  Yeah, how how do you get on these big TV shows and stuff by.
• 39:45
  The way I have a booking agent really, you know, and it was
• 39:47
  like a start small. You pay to get on these shows.
• 39:50
  I don't I pay the the booking agent to like build those
• 39:52
  relationships. And they go out of I got a guy
• 39:55
  that fits what you're looking. For yeah, but I and then they
• 39:57
  sort of pitch the stories and stuff like that, but I have to
• 39:58
  deliver on the smaller stuff first.
• 40:00
  So like what people haven't seen is maybe not everybody, but a
• 40:02
  lot of people see me on like Jesse Watters or something like
• 40:04
  that, but you haven't seen me on like Doctor Phil used to have a
• 40:06
  24 hour news network. It was called merit media
• 40:08
  really. And like last year towards the
• 40:10
  tail end of the year, I was like their go to Democrat.
• 40:11
  I was on the show like every four or eight hours probably and
• 40:13
  I would absolutely I'd say this would love.
• 40:15
  I would absolutely smoke whatever Republican they had on
• 40:17
  that day because it was like the.
• 40:19
  BT was. What they were bringing.
• 40:20
  BT might be generous, frankly, to who they were bringing on.
• 40:22
  Now, the mayor media actually went bankrupt this year.
• 40:26
  Yeah. And Doctor Phil's facing like a
• 40:28
  massive lawsuit for, like, back pay and stuff like that.
• 40:30
  But I did that, and I was able to put a reel together and go,
• 40:32
  all right, here's what this guy can do.
• 40:34
  And then, you know, a couple months ago, I think Harris
• 40:36
  Faulkner, who has, like, a daytime show on Fox, was like,
• 40:39
  all right, let's give him a shot.
• 40:40
  I got to go on and did well, having me back the next week.
• 40:42
  Next thing I know I'm doing, you know that and you know, same
• 40:45
  with like the podcast stuff is like working my way up.
• 40:47
  I actually just booked my first really big podcast like where
• 40:49
  it's like the audience is like. Obviously outside this one.
• 40:51
  Well, I mean, I mean, I'm getting in.
• 40:53
  I'm getting in on the ground. What's the Joe Rogan here guys?
• 40:55
  And this is. Like your 6th or 7th episode,
• 40:56
  right? It's like relatively no.
• 40:58
  No, no, no. I was looking at your YouTube
• 41:00
  page. You do 50.
• 41:00
  Yeah. OK, OK.
• 41:01
  Get that YouTube, probably the YouTube page we just started
• 41:04
  from Founder Talk. I have my own with 14,000
• 41:06
  subscribers. Got it.
• 41:07
  The YouTube one we just started. OK.
• 41:09
  And then we have LinkedIn. Talk talks.
• 41:11
  See, I guess I just assumed this was good because I looked at the
• 41:14
  YouTube. Yeah, if you go on Spotify,
• 41:15
  you'll see all of them. OK, awesome.
• 41:17
  Amazing. Yeah, I mean.
• 41:18
  Which show are you on? Say again, what show did you get
• 41:21
  on? Which?
• 41:22
  One the big one, you said. I can't.
• 41:23
  I can't say it. You can't say it.
• 41:24
  I can't say. It Yeah.
• 41:26
  What did they tell you? You can't say anything.
• 41:27
  They told me, they told me they're not saying.
• 41:29
  Anything really. Yeah, but it's.
• 41:29
  I haven't shown it. I would know it.
• 41:31
  I don't know, I mean the, the, the, the landscape is so I
• 41:35
  forget. I feel like there's somebody who
• 41:36
  could have 50 billion followers and you wouldn't know who they
• 41:38
  were all the time. Somebody's like, did you see
• 41:40
  that show with the you know, my dad used to say, I'm worried
• 41:43
  that this is offensive for some reason.
• 41:44
  I don't know, my dad would say Joe shit, the rag man would just
• 41:46
  be the the name that he used when he didn't have a name.
• 41:49
  But so if that's offensive, it could blame my father because I
• 41:51
  don't know what it means. But you know, there's people
• 41:55
  would just be like, what's that Star Wars meme where they're
• 41:57
  like, so and so is back and it's like a funny name.
• 41:59
  You know what I'm talking about. No, I'm too much of A dork.
• 42:01
  You seem a lot cooler than me. Star Wars.
• 42:03
  Yeah, there's like a. I've seen all the.
• 42:05
  Stars, it's like, well, no, there's some like a fake name
• 42:07
  where people are like, I think it's like Globshitow or
• 42:09
  something like that. And anytime Star Wars fans are
• 42:12
  really excited about an Easter egg, people are like, oh look,
• 42:14
  Globshitow's back. And it's just.
• 42:15
  Like, oh, I've never heard it. Yeah, all.
• 42:16
  Right, I'm further down the nerd rabbit.
• 42:17
  Hole. Yeah, no, it's OK.
• 42:18
  Star Wars is cool dude. Please cut that.
• 42:20
  It's just no, we're not cutting anything.
• 42:22
  Don't cut it, please cut it. I feel embarrassed.
• 42:24
  We're not cutting like, what makes you a Democrat?
• 42:27
  What? Makes me a Democrat.
• 42:28
  I think the Democratic Party is the only party that cares about
• 42:31
  whether or not you have a good paying job, can retire with
• 42:33
  dignity, can start a family on your own terms.
• 42:35
  Can I take a vacation every now and again?
• 42:37
  And like, you know, I, again, I think I said this earlier, I
• 42:40
  have a pretty flexible mindset. Like I'm not ideologically
• 42:42
  driven. When I wake up in the morning,
• 42:43
  I'm not like I'm a liberal or I'm a socialist or I'm a
• 42:45
  capitalist. Like I'm just like a human
• 42:47
  being. So you got a good idea.
• 42:48
  I'm willing to try it out. And so, but I think when I've
• 42:51
  looked at it in my 2 decades of, of working here, the last
• 42:55
  Republican candidate that I could have supported was
• 42:56
  probably John McCain, maybe Mitt Romney and I, but I cannot vote
• 43:01
  for Donald Trump. I believe Donald Trump is a, is
• 43:03
  a man of low character, but it isn't so much about that.
• 43:05
  It's what my party represents. And my party has always been the
• 43:09
  party of the working class. When the working class did not
• 43:11
  vote for us in this last election, we lost their trust.
• 43:13
  We have to earn it back. But for me, it's, we actually
• 43:16
  care and our solutions aren't always right.
• 43:18
  Sometimes we get it wrong, sometimes we go a little bit too
• 43:20
  far. There's a lot of people in my
• 43:21
  party that I think are a little bit Big Brother on certain
• 43:23
  things. And I think it's really silly,
• 43:25
  but I think it's the only party that actually cares.
• 43:27
  And I'd rather be part of a group of people that are deeply
• 43:30
  flawed, that are trying to improve your life, even if you
• 43:32
  don't always agree with it. Then what I see in the
• 43:34
  Republican Party is like, what is the signature policy
• 43:36
  achievement of Donald Trump in the last nine months that has
• 43:39
  improved your life? Because he's got the tariffs,
• 43:42
  which are not working, and they're making everything more
• 43:43
  expensive. And he's denying, by the way,
• 43:45
  that everything's more expensive and.
• 43:47
  We probably. Shouldn't.
• 43:49
  That's pretty good. I mean, I'll do mine.
• 43:51
  Let's see, the greatest thing. That's really good.
• 43:53
  You should not mean that you should go.
• 43:55
  All right, I'll go. Hillary Clinton.
• 43:57
  I like the nasty, nasty, nasty woman, Yeah.
• 44:00
  Probably 1 of the gorse. Women.
• 44:02
  Oh shit, that's really good. You should work on take that on
• 44:04
  the road. I'll work on my Obama that will
• 44:07
  come back and do the yeah. Everybody wants.
• 44:08
  Well, it's. Probably offensive for me to do
• 44:10
  Obama. Really.
• 44:11
  Is your stance is that the Republican Party does not care?
• 44:15
  This version of the Republican. Party or some of the people in
• 44:18
  the Republic? Well, I mean, I mean for real
• 44:19
  though, it's like I would ask. I think people care on both
• 44:21
  sides. I think there's some people that
• 44:22
  don't care on both sides, but I think there's probably a good
• 44:25
  amount. Of people in charge of this
• 44:27
  Republican Party do not care. JD Vance doesn't care about.
• 44:30
  JD Vance doesn't. I don't.
• 44:31
  The American people. There's three types of
• 44:33
  politicians in my opinion. There's people I know what they
• 44:35
  believe in because they flush it out and you either like it or
• 44:37
  you don't. There's people that don't
• 44:38
  believe in anything and that's like Trump.
• 44:39
  Like Trump doesn't believe in anything other than winning and
• 44:41
  himself. And then there's a politician
• 44:43
  that believes in something and I don't know what it is.
• 44:45
  Vance is one of those politicians.
• 44:46
  And I think that's the most dangerous thing.
• 44:48
  What does JD Vance believe in? I don't feel like I know that.
• 44:51
  I feel JD, like JD Vance is a chameleon, right?
• 44:53
  And he wanted to be well liked in liberal circles.
• 44:56
  So he wrote the book that he wrote and he went on that
• 44:58
  cocktail circuit telling his story, which I think now we all
• 45:00
  kind of know is largely BS. What's the name of his book is
• 45:03
  Hillbilly Elegy. And you know that got.
• 45:06
  A movie about that, Yeah. There's a movie.
• 45:07
  Yeah. I've never seen the movie.
• 45:08
  I think I read the book a million years ago.
• 45:10
  But like, he's kind of a chameleon.
• 45:11
  Like he will change what he believes in at any time.
• 45:13
  I mean, I the Epstein stuff is like the perfect example of this
• 45:16
  because it was like, you know, all throughout the campaign last
• 45:18
  year, he's like, we're going to release the Epstein files.
• 45:19
  We're going to tell the truth, We're going to get it out there.
• 45:21
  And then now he's carrying water for Trump on it.
• 45:23
  So it's like. Yeah, what's going on with the
• 45:24
  Epstein? Listen, I.
• 45:25
  You know, full comparison theory.
• 45:28
  Something's there. I'm radicalized by the Epstein
• 45:31
  files probably more than any other Democratic strategies out
• 45:33
  there. Like release them all, get them
• 45:34
  all out there. Yeah, even if it even if it
• 45:36
  hurts my people. If you told me that I had
• 45:37
  clients on the list, get it out there.
• 45:39
  So the only thing I know is I'm not on the list because there's
• 45:41
  no way I'd be cut dead. Doing it, yeah, yeah.
• 45:43
  There's, I don't know, there's something there.
• 45:48
  We. But again, I think you just
• 45:50
  don't. You don't.
• 45:50
  We don't have enough people in this country that run for office
• 45:53
  because they actually want to solve problems.
• 45:55
  Yeah, I think so too. Yeah, and I'll give you an
• 45:57
  example. I, I vacationed in Montana this
• 45:59
  year, took the family out to Flathead Lake.
• 46:00
  We went to Yellowstone, I went to Glacier.
• 46:02
  And one day we were driving down I-94, I think maybe.
• 46:06
  And if I get that wrong, somebody yelled me on the
• 46:07
  Internet but stopped at a coffee shop.
• 46:09
  And every time we sat at the coffee shop, I put my phone
• 46:10
  away. And I was reading like a
• 46:11
  newspaper because I just was enjoying kind of like living in,
• 46:14
  you know, a different era, reading the newspaper.
• 46:16
  And there's a story about one of the doge cuts had cut a funding
• 46:20
  program for the Flathead County Library for these little Wi-Fi
• 46:23
  hotspots people like, because Internet in Montana is a
• 46:25
  disaster, like a complete disaster.
• 46:27
  So these hotspots were something you could check out at the
• 46:29
  library. You could use it to set up a
• 46:31
  medical appointment to, you know, look for jobs to check
• 46:34
  your e-mail to, you know, whatever, go on Facebook.
• 46:36
  And the grant had been cut, so the program was going to go
• 46:40
  away. And a private group of citizens
• 46:42
  came forward to the head of the library, who was, I believe, a
• 46:44
  Republican elected official, and was like, we have the funds to
• 46:48
  keep this going. We want to keep it going.
• 46:50
  I think it's good for the community.
• 46:51
  And he said no. And he was like, it's not my job
• 46:53
  to solve broadband Internet access in Montana.
• 46:57
  And I'm like, yeah, I know it's not your job, man, but like, can
• 46:59
  you try to solve any issue? Like, the problem is you have a
• 47:02
  lot of politicians that show up, and they're sort of like Selina
• 47:05
  Meyer from Veep. Like, they care about the
• 47:07
  cocktail circuit. They care about being perceived
• 47:09
  as a certain type of ideology. They care about, you know, what
• 47:12
  I'm running for next. And they're not thinking about
• 47:15
  God. I have this power in front of me
• 47:17
  right now to make this corner of my world a little bit better.
• 47:21
  And they don't want to do it. And I'd rather have, I'd rather
• 47:23
  have a Leslie Knope. I know it's kind of a tortured
• 47:24
  metaphor, but like Leslie Knope would solve whatever problem was
• 47:26
  in front of her, whether it was her job or not.
• 47:28
  And that's being a public servant and.
• 47:30
  Who are some good Republicans that you think?
• 47:32
  Do you want to Republicans country better?
• 47:33
  Yeah, I've always liked Mitt Romney.
• 47:36
  I didn't vote for him in 2012, obviously, but I always liked
• 47:38
  him. Adam Kinzinger would be the
• 47:40
  other one that I really like. You think they're generally
• 47:42
  trying to make the the country a better place they care about?
• 47:44
  That I think Adam Kinzinger definitely cares about it, for
• 47:46
  sure. I mean, Mitt Romney, I think by
• 47:48
  now everybody knows he's a patriot, or at least most
• 47:50
  rational people know. Right.
• 47:52
  But assuming both parties care to make the country better,
• 47:55
  yeah. What makes you more in?
• 47:57
  My opinion it. Could be.
• 47:58
  Because I there's a lot of people on my side that are not
• 48:00
  interested in solving problems at all, for sure.
• 48:02
  Yeah, you mentioned, you mentioned you watched the
• 48:03
  episode of my show with my dad. By the way, most urgency.com
• 48:06
  people can go find and watch the episode.
• 48:07
  Of my dad if you want to see the Republican.
• 48:09
  But my dad did like a 10 minute rant on how Democrats don't want
• 48:12
  to solve gun control. And he's like, your people won't
• 48:15
  do it because they don't want to solve it.
• 48:16
  And like, I listen to my dad and I'm like, I don't have a good
• 48:18
  argument for that because, like, those are objectively right.
• 48:20
  And my dad is a gun toting Republican like he was.
• 48:22
  But he agrees we should have gun control to, like, protect our
• 48:25
  kids. You know, he wants his, I've got
• 48:26
  a six year old boy. He wants his grandson protected
• 48:28
  in school. And Democrats have had power.
• 48:31
  We've controlled all the chambers before and we haven't
• 48:33
  done it. So I, I mean, I don't blame
• 48:34
  people for going what's the Democratic Party done for me
• 48:36
  lately? Because I don't have a good
• 48:37
  answer for you. Yeah.
• 48:39
  I don't think either side has really done a ton for that, no.
• 48:42
  In terms of party doesn't want to solve that problem at all,
• 48:45
  well. Even the mental health thing, I
• 48:46
  think we can all get behind that.
• 48:48
  There's some probably some extra layers that people need to go
• 48:51
  through from a mental health perspective to get guns in their
• 48:54
  hands because it seems like every time there's one of these
• 48:56
  shootings, it just comes back to a person that's not very stable.
• 49:00
  And to begin with, yes, But it doesn't seem like we don't talk
• 49:02
  about those things. We don't talk.
• 49:04
  About talked about, you know what I mean?
• 49:05
  So. We don't talk about.
• 49:07
  We don't. We talk about it, but we don't
• 49:10
  do anything about it. And this is what drives me out
• 49:12
  like this Charlie Kirk thing is, Charlie Kirk is a victim of the
• 49:14
  same thing that's happening in school shootings all across
• 49:16
  America, which is like a young man, lonely and isolated,
• 49:19
  steeped in gun culture and game and gamer culture, gets
• 49:22
  radicalized by something online, hyper fixated on something and
• 49:25
  does something that he shouldn't do because he has access to
• 49:26
  weapons. And Republicans fall into their
• 49:29
  camp and they go, OK, what's all mental health?
• 49:30
  We need to do something about mental health.
• 49:31
  They talk about it, they don't do anything.
• 49:32
  Democrats get wrapped up in the same gun talking points we've
• 49:34
  had since Sandy Hook and nobody makes any bit of progress.
• 49:37
  But in reality, it's a giant yes.
• 49:39
  And we should be doing stuff on mental health.
• 49:41
  We should be having a tough conversation on guns.
• 49:43
  We should be talking about how to secure soft spaces like our
• 49:46
  schools. We should be talking about gamer
• 49:47
  culture. We should be talking about gun
• 49:48
  culture. We should be talking about what
• 49:49
  happens on the Internet with all these young men being lonely and
• 49:52
  isolated and becoming radicalized.
• 49:53
  Like this is a thing that is very, very real.
• 49:55
  And instead, with the Kirk stuff, everything about the Kirk
• 49:58
  stuff is like, it's a Democrat who's trying to kill us and
• 50:01
  they're all coming to get us. And Donald Trump's calling us
• 50:03
  scum and stuff like that. And like, this kid wasn't even a
• 50:06
  Democrat. He wasn't.
• 50:07
  And now, again, I don't think that abdicates us of our
• 50:09
  responsibility to be better as citizens in this.
• 50:12
  But I want to talk about solutions and I want to see
• 50:15
  there be a bill in Congress, call it the Charlie Kirk
• 50:18
  Memorial bill for all you want. Bring everybody together and
• 50:21
  let's get, you know, 5 or 6 good ideas done to try to solve this
• 50:24
  and compromise across the board. But nobody wants to do that.
• 50:27
  You mentioned young men. What do you think is going on
• 50:29
  with young men in this country because it doesn't seem like
• 50:31
  they're in a good spot. No, I don't think that they are.
• 50:34
  And I think, you know, this is the first generation of young
• 50:37
  men who are going to make less money than their female
• 50:39
  counterparts. Right now, women are twice as
• 50:42
  likely to graduate from college. They're twice as likely to own a
• 50:44
  home. And it is completely screwed up
• 50:45
  the ecosystem. And it is first time not just in
• 50:47
  like, American history, but like, human civilization.
• 50:49
  Like, go find another civilization where, like, young
• 50:51
  women are doing better than young men.
• 50:52
  So men are not geared. But can we stop and say we're
• 50:55
  proud of women? For doing that, we should, yeah,
• 50:57
  you know, to be clear. I got two daughters, so I'm
• 50:59
  like, yeah, you know, it's great.
• 51:00
  Women are getting their thing. Good.
• 51:01
  Nice. How old are your kids?
• 51:03
  11:00 and 8:00 if you don't want to say like no, no, 11:00 and
• 51:05
  8:00. But I also don't want men to
• 51:07
  suffer as well. No, right?
• 51:08
  Like they are, yeah. Well, and then there's an
• 51:10
  additional problem. So they don't, we talk about
• 51:12
  this in the concept of of like little girls being president.
• 51:14
  It's like it's hard to be something you haven't seen.
• 51:16
  Well, it's kind of hard to be a man if like everything in
• 51:19
  society from your dad to pop culture has told you that men
• 51:23
  are going to be in this stage of, of society.
• 51:26
  And then now we're watching young men get crushed in the
• 51:29
  economy more so than anybody else, not believing in college,
• 51:31
  not believing in democracy. So it's a huge issue.
• 51:34
  It's screwed up the dating pool. Like these young men don't know
• 51:36
  how to get a mate. I think I saw something where it
• 51:38
  was like some crazy number, like only 30% of Gen.
• 51:41
  Z even, like think they're going to be sexually active, let alone
• 51:44
  are actually sexually active. I'm get that statistic wrong,
• 51:45
  but it was something really alarming about that.
• 51:48
  And then liberals have made a massive mistake.
• 51:51
  So in the last 10 years, there's been a well-intentioned push for
• 51:55
  liberal men to take a back seat, to let more women lead the
• 51:59
  conversation, let more people of color lead the conversation.
• 52:01
  And that's right. We shouldn't not do those
• 52:03
  things. It's just like the conversation,
• 52:04
  like we shouldn't do anything to get in the way of women making
• 52:06
  more money than men. Like that's actually amazing
• 52:07
  progress. However, the issue at hand is
• 52:11
  what the Republicans did, what the what the far right has done.
• 52:14
  And with the Andrew Tate's of the world in particular, do you
• 52:16
  know what Tate is? In my opinion, Tate's one of the
• 52:18
  most dangerous human beings on the planet.
• 52:19
  Because what Tate advocates to young men is you are a man you
• 52:23
  can take, you can steal, you can control these women.
• 52:26
  And it's horrible. And there's no liberal
• 52:29
  counterpoint to that going well. Actually, you should build and
• 52:33
  you should create and you should be a value and you should
• 52:35
  protect. And I'm one of the founders of
• 52:37
  white dudes for Harris, which is a bit infamous at this point.
• 52:39
  I'm either love it or you hated it.
• 52:41
  And we had Scott Galloway on, on, on that.
• 52:44
  And getting Galloway on the Galloway's more probably more
• 52:47
  conservative than me for sure. And I'm probably pretty normally
• 52:49
  Democrat. Galloway got on.
• 52:51
  And what he said at the beginning was I believe the role
• 52:53
  of a man is to protect and to provide.
• 52:55
  And the best way for me to do that is to vote for Kamala
• 52:57
  Harris because Donald Trump has never protected anyone but
• 52:59
  himself and he's never provided for anyone but himself.
• 53:01
  That was a better three sentence answer to why young men should
• 53:05
  vote for Kamala Harris than anything I saw from the campaign
• 53:07
  or any other Democratic Syria. And that was controversial
• 53:10
  inside the Democratic Party. People were mad at us for
• 53:12
  platforming Galloway because he has some views that people don't
• 53:15
  like. But but that's roughly it.
• 53:16
  We need more men who are going to be center or center left
• 53:20
  advocating for what it means to actually be a man.
• 53:22
  Like you're raising 2 little girls, you're going to you're
• 53:25
  going to teach them how to be good human beings and you're
• 53:27
  going to want them to obviously bring home whoever they want.
• 53:30
  But if they bring home two young men, you're going to want those
• 53:31
  young men to be a reflection of the type of man you want.
• 53:33
  Course and you know. Where's the breakdown?
• 53:35
  Because it seems like by the time they're 18, they formed
• 53:37
  their belief, their values, their how they're going to
• 53:40
  interact in society, right? So it's got to be happening from
• 53:42
  zero to 18. Something is breaking down in
• 53:45
  men. Screens, I think, is a big part
• 53:47
  of it, too. Again, you're isolated.
• 53:48
  You don't know what content. Your kids are going to be
• 53:49
  terrified. I think that's a real problem,
• 53:51
  yeah. I think that's a real.
• 53:52
  Problem and I think the Wright's done a really good job of of Co
• 53:55
  opting that like they, I mean, at least the far right to be
• 53:57
  clear. Give an example.
• 53:59
  Jordan Peterson. Yeah.
• 54:00
  Have you ever read his book? No, it's like he has a book, I
• 54:02
  forget exactly what it's called, but it's like 12 rules on a
• 54:04
  decent life or something sort of like that.
• 54:05
  And a lot of them are really good.
• 54:06
  Like I've read this book. I think it's good.
• 54:08
  And the Wrights been really savvy in this.
• 54:09
  It's one of the sort of subversive things that they've
• 54:11
  done. They have moved into self help
• 54:14
  culture where they realize people are struggling.
• 54:16
  So they create these platforms and these voices that are there
• 54:18
  to help you, particularly young men.
• 54:20
  And, you know, Jordan Peterson had a video that I saw once.
• 54:23
  And this is a bit of an exaggeration, to be clear, but
• 54:25
  it was like, the purpose of a man is to be useful and to like,
• 54:29
  go create things in society and to get off the couch and do
• 54:32
  something meaningful and like stuff that's like, yeah, you're
• 54:34
  like, OK, great. I got one send.
• 54:35
  And like, the next sentence was like, trans people don't exist
• 54:38
  and we should lock up all the gays.
• 54:39
  And I was like, all right. You said that.
• 54:41
  It wasn't exactly, that could be clear before I get sued, but it
• 54:44
  was like something where like the pivot was super hard.
• 54:46
  It was like, oh, oh, I didn't realize we were talking about
• 54:49
  that. I thought we were talking about
• 54:50
  the purpose of life. And there's a bunch of different
• 54:52
  influencers who were like that, that mean to a certain degree,
• 54:55
  Charlie Kirk was like that. Like Charlie Kirk would do a lot
• 54:57
  of motivational stuff. He would do a lot of like
• 54:58
  Christian stuff. And then he would pivot
• 54:59
  immediately hard into something else.
• 55:00
  And it's hard. There were a lot of people who
• 55:02
  followed Charlie Kirk just because he talked about
• 55:04
  Christianity, just because he talked about motivation and
• 55:06
  building a business. And Democrats don't do that.
• 55:08
  The left doesn't do that now. There's more people doing it
• 55:10
  now. It's part of the reason I
• 55:12
  decided to do this podcast. Like I wanted to come and talk
• 55:13
  about being an entrepreneur. Like they like to create this
• 55:16
  image of me and they're like, well, he's a white dude for
• 55:18
  Harris. So like he's a loser and he
• 55:19
  hates football and like he's a cock and blah blah blah.
• 55:22
  And I'm like, Nope, happily married with a kid running like
• 55:24
  6 successful businesses. I've done pretty well wearing a
• 55:27
  nice watch, driving a nice car. Like, you know, again, I'm not
• 55:29
  bragging about those things is that I'm a little bit tired of
• 55:30
  them defining me like that and then giving bad advice to
• 55:33
  people. Yeah.
• 55:35
  Couple topics for you. OK, the US debt is 37 1/2
• 55:40
  trillion dollars. What is the plan?
• 55:45
  Not that you're in charge of this, but from a political
• 55:47
  standpoint, like what's the solution here?
• 55:49
  Because I looked it up, we it goes up by $1,000,000 every 24
• 55:53
  seconds. Like I sat here and watched.
• 55:56
  I was like 24 seconds went by. Do you?
• 55:58
  Just have it open there. That was true.
• 55:59
  No, no, I don't have it open, but I did earlier.
• 56:01
  I was like, I counted. I was like 24 seconds went by,
• 56:03
  we went up $1,000,000 in debt. Are we ever going to get out of
• 56:08
  that? That seems almost like.
• 56:09
  No, but I don't think debt is necessarily a bad thing.
• 56:12
  Either 37 1/2. Way too high.
• 56:14
  It's way too high, absolutely. And I think debt as a ratio of
• 56:17
  our GDP is the important sort of barometer between the two.
• 56:20
  But a lot of hard decisions have to be made relative to how we're
• 56:25
  going to try to have a balanced budget.
• 56:26
  And maybe we don't have to have a balanced budget.
• 56:28
  You hear people all the time, they're like, we should run
• 56:29
  government like a business. And that means we should
• 56:31
  eliminate this debt. And I'm like, do you realize how
• 56:33
  many businesses are deeply in debt?
• 56:35
  Like a leverage is an important part of running a business.
• 56:37
  And you know this because you're an entrepreneur and it is, it's
• 56:40
  OK to have debt. Like debt isn't necessarily.
• 56:42
  A bad thing? Not even good debt because good
• 56:44
  debt is like tied to a house. It's OK to like invest in the
• 56:47
  future of your business to take out a loan.
• 56:49
  Not necessarily. If you have an idea and you take
• 56:52
  out a small business loan for a million and a half dollars to to
• 56:54
  sell widgets or whatever, that's not good debt.
• 56:56
  Well, I think good debt to me is building towards the future,
• 57:01
  right? Investing in something that you
• 57:02
  believe will be something greater versus bad debt is like
• 57:05
  I bought a expensive car that I'm just going to drive for
• 57:08
  myself. Yeah, so and maybe I'm just off.
• 57:10
  I racked up credit card debt at the mall because I wanted to
• 57:12
  look flashy, right? That's bad debt.
• 57:14
  Good debt is like, I'm going to do something with this
• 57:16
  productive, right? When I hear good debt, I hear
• 57:21
  like it's tied to an asset. So I hear like good debt
• 57:23
  business. Is an asset I.
• 57:25
  Don't think it is because businesses are so risky.
• 57:27
  So I don't think I I view like a small.
• 57:28
  Business, like a business, is an asset.
• 57:30
  I think a business is an, oh, it's certainly an asset on
• 57:32
  paper, but like, I think of it like as a house, like I'm
• 57:34
  buying. A house is risky too.
• 57:36
  It could go down in value and you could lose everything.
• 57:37
  Yeah. But I think a house is like
• 57:38
  dramatically like real estate, dramatically less risky than
• 57:42
  like buying a business or starting a business.
• 57:44
  Like most businesses fail in the first year.
• 57:46
  So like most houses don't burn down in the first year.
• 57:48
  So it's just it's a little. Bit of most of them don't fail
• 57:50
  in the first year. Most businesses.
• 57:52
  Most business don't most business.
• 57:53
  Over 50%, no, I don't think it's quite that high, but it's.
• 57:56
  Maybe it's restaurants. Yeah, that might be true, yeah.
• 57:58
  Right. I mean, that's, I don't know,
• 58:00
  Every time I'm in a restaurant, I'm like, I can't.
• 58:02
  We'll put the Fact Check up. Yeah, but it is but.
• 58:04
  To your point, it is higher, I think by year like 10 it's like
• 58:08
  6470% like that, but. Well.
• 58:10
  I saw first year is like 2030% or something like that, then
• 58:13
  three years it's higher and then you know this.
• 58:15
  Is like a. This is like an EOS or an
• 58:17
  entrepreneur. No, excuse me, like
• 58:19
  entrepreneurs organization, like here in Chicago, like I think
• 58:21
  it's a stat in. Are you part of that?
• 58:23
  Yeah, I am. Yeah, The best thing I've ever.
• 58:24
  Done. Really.
• 58:25
  I love them to death. Yeah.
• 58:26
  It's really useful if you're an entrepreneur out there listening
• 58:29
  to this. You work, that's your audience.
• 58:30
  Go find a group of people that you can talk to about being an.
• 58:32
  Entrepreneur because it. Sucks and it's hard and you get
• 58:34
  isolated from everybody and sometimes you need to complain
• 58:37
  about your wife or your business partner or something like that.
• 58:39
  I think it's something like 95% of small businesses never make
• 58:42
  it to like $1,000,000 gross. I could see that sales.
• 58:45
  And then do you know what percentage you get to 5 million
• 58:48
  of you? Mean gross sales all time or one
• 58:50
  year? Gross sales period.
• 58:52
  Wow. Yeah.
• 58:53
  And then it's and somebody said you fact checked me if I'm
• 58:55
  wrong, but this is what I've I've heard is and then.
• 58:58
  It's probably what they're telling it's.
• 58:59
  My God, it's so good. I'm so upset about how much
• 59:01
  better it. Is they're telling me the God?
• 59:03
  That's a good party trick. I mean, I can't even.
• 59:05
  I have a couple of impressions that I'm pretty proud of.
• 59:06
  And that's pretty damn. You know, it's funny, man.
• 59:08
  I said a couple people just over the last like couple years, I've
• 59:11
  done the impression here and there.
• 59:12
  I don't work on it a lot but I just it's come.
• 59:14
  Kind of just imagine me like in the middle of the night, you're
• 59:16
  like by yourself, you're in the bathroom.
• 59:18
  It's a great stream, really good job everyone's saying.
• 59:23
  But I've he's also very easy to do an impression on cuz he's
• 59:26
  just a character, you know what I mean?
• 59:27
  Right. But I've sent voice notes to
• 59:29
  people and they've been like, dude, how did you AI system did
• 59:33
  you used to do that? I'm like, no dude, that was me.
• 59:34
  That's me. Like no fucking what?
• 59:35
  Right, yeah. So my, my impression that I
• 59:37
  could do that I that I'd like I'll do it for the show cause
• 59:39
  I'll do it embarrass the shit out of myself is I like doing
• 59:42
  Christian Bale's Batman a lot. Myself.
• 59:44
  Yeah, yeah. Rachel, that's where is she?
• 59:47
  I'm actually going to move. Yeah, the line from Have you
• 59:50
  ever seen Dark Knight Rises? Yeah, you've seen them all.
• 59:52
  So when he's screaming at him about the the trigger for the
• 59:54
  bomb, yes, where's the trigger? And he goes, you would never
• 59:57
  give it to an ordinary and it just gets like he.
• 59:59
  He does. His tongue gets in.
• 1:00:01
  There, he pulls it out. Yeah, it's great.
• 1:00:03
  And then I used to do this with my son all the time when he was
• 1:00:05
  in the bathtub. I'd take a little like cup that
• 1:00:06
  he would have and I would go, oh, you think darkness is bad?
• 1:00:09
  Like, you know, yeah. So, like, I love those.
• 1:00:11
  Yeah, yeah. It's like Christian Bale Batman.
• 1:00:12
  It's my like party trick. One dude, he's, I think he's the
• 1:00:15
  best Batman. He's in the best Batman movies.
• 1:00:17
  Christian Bale is the type of actor where he's in the best
• 1:00:19
  movies, but I don't know that he's the best actor.
• 1:00:21
  In the movie I thought he was pretty good though.
• 1:00:23
  The the Thor movie that he was in where he was the bad guy.
• 1:00:26
  Have you seen it? No, it's a love, Love and
• 1:00:27
  Thunder, I think it's called. Christian Bale is playing this
• 1:00:30
  like dark, brooding character that's murdering gods.
• 1:00:33
  And then he's in an entirely different movie than everybody
• 1:00:35
  else. Like he is absolutely
• 1:00:37
  terrifying. And then like Thor's making like
• 1:00:38
  poop jokes. And I'm like, wait, I want to
• 1:00:40
  watch the movie that Christian Bale did because that actually
• 1:00:42
  seems more interesting. That's funny.
• 1:00:44
  He's a great. He's a great actor.
• 1:00:45
  What are we talking about? We're talking about businesses
• 1:00:48
  and going out of business and stuff like that.
• 1:00:50
  The 95% yeah, $1,000,000. A year, well, I mean, but go
• 1:00:52
  back to go back to the debt for a second is I mean, look, we
• 1:00:56
  have every Republican president of my lifetime has cut taxes for
• 1:01:00
  billionaires, every single one of them.
• 1:01:01
  And they've cut taxes for the middle class, too, but they're
• 1:01:03
  always temporary tax cuts. So like all the tax cuts that
• 1:01:06
  they just passed a few months ago, like Donald Trump, let's
• 1:01:08
  talk about no tax for tips. It's no tax for tips, just on
• 1:01:10
  cash. Increasingly people are getting
• 1:01:12
  tipped electronically so it doesn't count.
• 1:01:13
  For that, why is that the case? Why are they getting
• 1:01:15
  electronically? Why would it just be on cash
• 1:01:19
  when we know that? Well, because talking point.
• 1:01:22
  Most people don't report their cash tips, so it was not revenue
• 1:01:25
  that the government was getting anyway.
• 1:01:26
  So it actually has. I mean, this that's wow.
• 1:01:28
  Yeah, it was. It was all just a scare, of
• 1:01:30
  course. People aren't reporting their
• 1:01:31
  cash. Right.
• 1:01:31
  People are not reporting their cash debts.
• 1:01:32
  So like it's ridiculous and they don't extend it to the
• 1:01:35
  electronic ones which are now reported and that's taking over
• 1:01:38
  everywhere you go. I mean that.
• 1:01:39
  Doesn't make sense that you wouldn't get to report it just
• 1:01:42
  from the payment method. Yeah, it's interesting, Yeah.
• 1:01:46
  It's, I mean, it's bad. So you're continuing to pay the
• 1:01:48
  same amount of taxes, but billionaires have had four
• 1:01:51
  consecutive tax cuts under. But hasn't Biden let, I mean the
• 1:01:54
  previous administration? They let some of them, they let
• 1:01:55
  some of them expire. I feel like they all just give
• 1:01:57
  billionaires they pay for the damn campaign.
• 1:01:59
  Oh, hold on, Biden. Biden did not cut taxes for
• 1:02:01
  billionaires. I want to be clear about.
• 1:02:02
  That, but he left cuts in place, didn't he, as part of a
• 1:02:04
  conference, right. So I'm like, they all don't
• 1:02:05
  they? Yeah.
• 1:02:06
  No, listen, I mean, if you're looking for me to be like 1
• 1:02:08
  sided in this, like, no, this is every party's responsibility.
• 1:02:10
  Like we have completely failed to deal with this and then
• 1:02:14
  nobody wants to raise revenue and I don't think we should
• 1:02:16
  raise revenue on regular people, to be clear.
• 1:02:17
  Like I actually think we should cut taxes for like the.
• 1:02:19
  Bottom raise revenue, What do you mean?
• 1:02:20
  Like taxes, oh, tax. I just think about revenue and
• 1:02:22
  debt, that's all. Got it.
• 1:02:24
  And I mean, look, you have here's the leverage you can
• 1:02:25
  pull, right? You can either cut stuff, you
• 1:02:27
  can either find a way to make more money or you can you can
• 1:02:31
  cut, cut. What do I just say?
• 1:02:32
  Cut stuff, raise money? So I think we have to raise
• 1:02:36
  taxes. And we are in a very unequal
• 1:02:39
  civilization right now. And we have a lot of problems
• 1:02:41
  that we need to solve too. So you're right, the debt is too
• 1:02:42
  high. There is.
• 1:02:43
  They're right that there's a ton of bloat, waste, fraud, abuse in
• 1:02:45
  the government like I'm not. Going to tell you for sure.
• 1:02:47
  What Musk and Doge did was ridiculous.
• 1:02:49
  Like they didn't really cut any of that.
• 1:02:51
  Most of the biggest stuff is like defense contracts is poorly
• 1:02:54
  put together in government programs, but you do have a lot
• 1:02:57
  of people that like probably should not be in government
• 1:02:59
  anymore. A lot of positions that don't
• 1:03:00
  need to be there. There is real over regulation.
• 1:03:02
  Some of that regulation is really important.
• 1:03:03
  Some of those programs are really important.
• 1:03:05
  They cut Cancer Research for kids and then yesterday they're
• 1:03:07
  going to tell pregnant women not to take Tylenol based on, as far
• 1:03:10
  as I can tell, no scientific evidence.
• 1:03:11
  And Donald Trump cannot pronounce the word acenomatifed,
• 1:03:13
  which I actually, as I started to say, I got terrified I was
• 1:03:16
  going to say it wrong. Have you seen that video?
• 1:03:19
  No. Oh, go watch him pronouncing
• 1:03:20
  acetaminophen because he's like asin.
• 1:03:23
  Oh, wait. I don't.
• 1:03:24
  Wait. How do you say this word?
• 1:03:25
  OK, wait. It's a make believe word
• 1:03:27
  anyways. Asin Aminophen, did I get it?
• 1:03:30
  Like it's exactly. We're going to change the name.
• 1:03:32
  We're going to change the name so big and so fast, I think.
• 1:03:35
  It's called Trumplinol now. Don't take it if you're
• 1:03:37
  pregnant, but everybody else should take.
• 1:03:40
  That was not bad. Yeah.
• 1:03:41
  You just have to like it's. I got to get it.
• 1:03:42
  You got to work it. You got to work it, yeah.
• 1:03:44
  Yeah, yeah, I always, I always go Hillary Clinton.
• 1:03:46
  And it's it's the also the. Fest Yeah, it's.
• 1:03:50
  The New York it's, but it's the New York with the thing you got
• 1:03:53
  to get the little New York. Well, there's the little like,
• 1:03:55
  this is just going to be a whole podcast.
• 1:03:56
  It's going to be sofa, it's going to be good, that is true.
• 1:03:59
  Not me, but a lot of people say it.
• 1:04:01
  I don't. Know.
• 1:04:01
  Well, people are telling me. They're probably telling me.
• 1:04:04
  So envious of this, it would be so valuable for.
• 1:04:07
  Me to have it would be valuable. It would.
• 1:04:08
  Be extremely valuable for me to have that you know, all my
• 1:04:10
  impressions I can't do because like, why would I ever in the
• 1:04:12
  middle of a political interview break in a Christian.
• 1:04:14
  Male No, they'd be like, what the fuck is this guy doing,
• 1:04:16
  Rachel? So we're not going to get out of
• 1:04:19
  the the trillion dollars of debt.
• 1:04:20
  We're going to be pretty much in debt forever.
• 1:04:22
  Well, I think it's fine to have debt as long as you can pay it
• 1:04:25
  off. Like again, I don't think that I
• 1:04:26
  I think the debt is one of those things where it's over indexed
• 1:04:30
  as a political issue. It's still an issue, don't get
• 1:04:31
  me wrong, but we got to make tough decisions.
• 1:04:34
  Doesn't it hit a ceiling at certain point where it's just
• 1:04:36
  like and? Then they raise it.
• 1:04:37
  The politicians are just going to raise.
• 1:04:38
  It but honestly they're. Going to get rid of.
• 1:04:40
  People stop borrowing. People stop lending you money.
• 1:04:43
  No, not. As long as we have so many
• 1:04:44
  consumers and so much money in the country.
• 1:04:46
  Now, if we have like a rut on money in the country, real
• 1:04:48
  problem, yeah, which I wouldn't be shocked.
• 1:04:51
  Yeah, Chicago. Yep, that's the last.
• 1:04:55
  Political type thing. I want to talk about what do you
• 1:04:57
  think? Because this is your city,
• 1:04:58
  right? I'm in the burbs so I don't
• 1:04:59
  claim Chicago, but what's going on when?
• 1:05:02
  You're on vacation though? Like where?
• 1:05:03
  You from, well, in Chicago as a general, relatively, yeah.
• 1:05:06
  I'm like Chicago, you know, Saint Charles.
• 1:05:07
  Yeah, You know, we all hate that, right?
• 1:05:09
  Yeah. I call people out of that all
• 1:05:10
  the time when they, well, somebody, they're like, I grew
• 1:05:11
  up in Chicago, I'll be like where?
• 1:05:12
  And they'll be like Evanston, and I'm like, Evanston's not.
• 1:05:15
  Chicago, yeah, you, you have to Orient people, right.
• 1:05:18
  So if you're like Saint Charles, like, I don't know what the hell
• 1:05:20
  it is, but like Chicago suburbs. Oh, OK, got it.
• 1:05:22
  Yeah, yeah, if. You just if you see Chicago
• 1:05:24
  suburbs, I respect you, but if you see Chicago, I will.
• 1:05:26
  Call. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:05:28
  What's the state of the of the city right now in your opinion?
• 1:05:31
  Obviously we a lot of talks about Trump coming in and
• 1:05:33
  National Guard and that kind of stuff, the crime stuff.
• 1:05:36
  People are saying it's not as safe as it used to be.
• 1:05:38
  What's your perspective and what should we do about it?
• 1:05:40
  Yeah, well, I think crime is a real issue in Chicago.
• 1:05:43
  I won't deny that. It's not.
• 1:05:44
  Now the stats show improvement, so like the reduction.
• 1:05:47
  What are they doing about it though?
• 1:05:49
  Well, I not not enough is what I would say.
• 1:05:51
  And the problem with Brandon Johnson's administration is he's
• 1:05:53
  not really doing much nothing about anything.
• 1:05:55
  It doesn't seem like Pritzker really cares.
• 1:05:56
  I think Pritzker cares. But again, it's it's it's the
• 1:05:59
  the city controls the police force.
• 1:06:01
  And I think if it were me, like I think we should have more
• 1:06:03
  police. I think they should be properly
• 1:06:05
  trained. I don't think we should, like, I
• 1:06:06
  think one of the biggest mistakes of this country makes
• 1:06:08
  in every city in America is like we hire a bunch of cops.
• 1:06:11
  We send them out in the street with a pistol and we don't
• 1:06:12
  really properly train them or we ask them to do too much.
• 1:06:15
  We do this with public servants all the time.
• 1:06:16
  Teachers are asked to be a teacher.
• 1:06:19
  There has to be a counselor, there has to be a babysitter.
• 1:06:21
  Like they're just asked to be way too much and they don't pay.
• 1:06:23
  They're not paid enough. So we don't attract really good,
• 1:06:25
  talented people. That's a problem.
• 1:06:26
  The same is true for for police. Like we should pay police more.
• 1:06:29
  We should attract high quality talent, particularly in a world
• 1:06:31
  where AI is going to kill all these entry level jobs.
• 1:06:34
  We should be going out of our way to try to incentivize young
• 1:06:36
  people to want to be teachers, to want to be police officers,
• 1:06:38
  to want to be firefighters. We do this actually really
• 1:06:40
  effectively with garbage man, because that's a horrible job
• 1:06:44
  where you're you're, you're working with trash all day and
• 1:06:46
  you're but the benefits and the pay for most garbage people.
• 1:06:49
  Amazing. Why can't we do that with
• 1:06:52
  everybody else and provide them with a good life and make sure
• 1:06:54
  that we service our kids and service our community.
• 1:06:56
  So I think that's a big problem, I do think.
• 1:06:58
  But what is one thing Pritzker's done for to make the city safer?
• 1:07:02
  I mean, I think, I think fighting to keep Donald Trump
• 1:07:04
  out if you're out of out of the city with the National Guard, I
• 1:07:06
  don't think that. But before that, is there one
• 1:07:07
  thing he's really done? I mean that.
• 1:07:10
  To be clear, I'm not an expert in this.
• 1:07:11
  I don't know. You may list off 10 things.
• 1:07:13
  I'm like, cool. I mean they.
• 1:07:14
  Just don't hear anybody saying like this is what we're going to
• 1:07:16
  do to make the city safer. Well, if you want to have a
• 1:07:18
  conversation about Democrats being bad at articulating what
• 1:07:20
  we're going to do, absolutely. Like that is a problem the
• 1:07:22
  Democratic Party has. We are very reactive to Donald
• 1:07:25
  Trump. We are not proactive and going.
• 1:07:26
  Here's what we're doing. But aside from Donald Trump,
• 1:07:28
  even before that. Yeah, I agree.
• 1:07:30
  Just like what? What do we like?
• 1:07:32
  It's you don't hear anything or you and you don't see anything
• 1:07:34
  being done right, which makes me think you don't care.
• 1:07:37
  Right. Well, I think Democrats fall
• 1:07:39
  into this trap of Donald Trump is amazing at identifying the
• 1:07:41
  problem. So any any identifies those
• 1:07:43
  problems based on feelings. So statistically speaking,
• 1:07:45
  Chicago is actually safer than it's been in quite a long time.
• 1:07:47
  But you don't feel that. So like, what does it matter?
• 1:07:49
  And I tell people all the time, I mean, it's sort of, I can drop
• 1:07:51
  the F bomb on the show. Yeah.
• 1:07:52
  It's like, fuck your feelings, but like, that's how you want it
• 1:07:55
  to be. But like, I don't feel safe.
• 1:07:57
  So there's no argument to be made if I don't feel safe.
• 1:07:59
  Same with the economy. Like all the economic indicators
• 1:08:01
  last year were looking better than they had over the last
• 1:08:04
  couple years. Inflation was better than it
• 1:08:06
  was, certainly than it is now. But people were mad and they
• 1:08:09
  felt like their economic situation was worse.
• 1:08:10
  So they punished the party. And we spent a lot of time
• 1:08:12
  going. The stats say this and the blah,
• 1:08:14
  blah, blah says that. And like Nobel laureate
• 1:08:15
  economist say this. We have to stop doing that.
• 1:08:17
  You're. Right.
• 1:08:17
  You don't feel good. He's really good.
• 1:08:19
  He's terrible. Solving problems.
• 1:08:21
  I can't think of a single problem he's actually solved.
• 1:08:23
  I think he's good at the only thing he can solve is a problem
• 1:08:25
  that he's created. Like he'll be like, I created a
• 1:08:26
  problem on Tuesday and I solved it on Wednesday.
• 1:08:27
  Give me the Nobel Peace Prize. You'll be like, wait a minute,
• 1:08:31
  you just bombed Iran and you're asking for the Nobel Peace
• 1:08:32
  Prize. I understand, but I think the
• 1:08:35
  Democrats need to articulate a clear vision for the future.
• 1:08:37
  Now, like part of the problem is what Democrats like to do is we
• 1:08:40
  put these big bills together and we give them a name that you
• 1:08:42
  can't remember and we give an initiative.
• 1:08:43
  And like so like there are lots of things I know that they've
• 1:08:45
  put in like state, state legislatures pass bills, the
• 1:08:48
  Pritzker sign that is like increased community policing and
• 1:08:51
  other initiatives like that. Like those are things we can get
• 1:08:52
  into let. Me ask you this, it almost feels
• 1:08:55
  like the Democratic Party sometimes can't tackle these
• 1:08:58
  hard issues because if they try to like put police in areas in
• 1:09:02
  certain area, like low income areas, all of a sudden they'll
• 1:09:05
  be attacked for like you're going against this group of
• 1:09:08
  people. And it's almost like, you know
• 1:09:09
  what I mean? It's almost like the moral high
• 1:09:11
  horse. You have to be on it.
• 1:09:12
  And like if you if you address this problem, let's just say
• 1:09:15
  like South Side Chicago or West Side or wherever it was, if they
• 1:09:18
  like address that, it would be him going against those group,
• 1:09:21
  that group of people. No, I don't think so because I
• 1:09:23
  think what you find is the, the session of Chicago would like
• 1:09:26
  more police. I think more than anything they
• 1:09:27
  want them to be properly trained and empowered to do their jobs.
• 1:09:29
  I think that's the challenge is like, what they don't want is
• 1:09:32
  they don't want the National Guard sweeping in for like 2
• 1:09:34
  months to like clean up Chicago and then leave.
• 1:09:37
  It isn't a sustainable solution. One thing I'll remind people of
• 1:09:40
  is in the Republican budget, they cut $2 billion for
• 1:09:42
  community policing, which means fewer cops will be on the
• 1:09:44
  streets all across America because of that.
• 1:09:45
  And they'll certainly the other half of that is that they'll be
• 1:09:47
  like less identified to, to, to get good paying, good benefits.
• 1:09:50
  And that's a mistake. So again, I think the Democratic
• 1:09:53
  Party's problem is, and I hate to keep harping on the economy,
• 1:09:55
  but I just think it's an easier thing for me to tie it to, is
• 1:09:58
  Donald Trump will go build the wall, drain the swamp, whatever
• 1:10:02
  you want to say. Some no tax on tips, right?
• 1:10:04
  And we talked about no tax on tips.
• 1:10:05
  And as vapid as it ultimately is, because the government's not
• 1:10:08
  getting any. That's wild, man.
• 1:10:09
  I'm glad you brought that up because I didn't know that.
• 1:10:10
  I don't think most people know that, that it's not.
• 1:10:12
  It's only on cash because to your point, most people don't
• 1:10:14
  report the cash anyway. So they're like, I'm not getting
• 1:10:16
  any gain here. Right.
• 1:10:17
  It's temporary expires in like 3 years.
• 1:10:19
  All the taxes are some middle class expire in three years.
• 1:10:21
  So that was for the campaign talking point.
• 1:10:23
  That really didn't mean anything.
• 1:10:26
  That erodes trust for me. Now, so Donald Trump will be
• 1:10:28
  very simple in what he wants to say and articulate to people.
• 1:10:30
  And then Democrats will be like, please pass the we're going to
• 1:10:32
  pass the blah blah blah and the blah blah, blah.
• 1:10:34
  Section 875. If you file for 52B with the
• 1:10:38
  IRS, you'll get a $0.75 tax return.
• 1:10:40
  And I'm like, Oh my God. So like, we have to get beyond
• 1:10:43
  the paradigms that we exist in and have some big bold ideas
• 1:10:46
  that are easy to explain and then we have to go do them.
• 1:10:48
  Because if you ask people what Joe Biden accomplished in the
• 1:10:50
  last four years, most people be like, I have no clue.
• 1:10:51
  They just don't. And I like Joe Biden.
• 1:10:53
  I thought Joe Biden was a good president.
• 1:10:55
  More after that he was a bad president.
• 1:10:56
  Yeah, until the end, where he was in rough shape, I mean.
• 1:10:59
  He was just, I mean, he was tired.
• 1:11:00
  He was tired. You know, I think it was more
• 1:11:02
  entire. I think he, I think he, I
• 1:11:04
  believe he was all there mentally.
• 1:11:05
  I don't. I don't buy that at all.
• 1:11:06
  Dude, did you see the last debate?
• 1:11:08
  Debate was horrendous, one of the worst things I've ever seen,
• 1:11:10
  but I not. Even just a debate, any
• 1:11:11
  interview. I think it was like, I think he
• 1:11:13
  was physically unable to do it. I think that was what it was.
• 1:11:16
  I truly. Believe.
• 1:11:17
  But did you watch all the other things?
• 1:11:18
  I've seen, I've seen a ton he. Was mentally declining.
• 1:11:21
  I I think he was slower and his list was a big issue, but I
• 1:11:25
  don't I don't buy like he wasn't mentally there part of it.
• 1:11:27
  That's the part. That, well, I don't know how he
• 1:11:29
  was thinking because we don't know.
• 1:11:30
  We're not in this conversation. I think he was.
• 1:11:32
  I think how he. Said it himself was he was not
• 1:11:34
  freaking there. But having been around like like
• 1:11:36
  my grandfather died when he was 88 and having been around like
• 1:11:39
  he was there mentally until the very end, but physically he
• 1:11:43
  wasn't able to do the things that he wanted physically, he
• 1:11:44
  wasn't able to tell his body what to do.
• 1:11:46
  I think that's what was happening.
• 1:11:47
  Now, I'm not justifying him. He should not have run for re
• 1:11:49
  election, but if reelection is a terrible decision, what his
• 1:11:52
  advisors did around him was a terrible decision.
• 1:11:53
  I'm just saying I wasn't like, I'm not in the like Joe Biden
• 1:11:56
  wasn't there and Jill Biden was running the country.
• 1:11:58
  Stuff like that I think is a step too far for me.
• 1:12:00
  Yeah, I got you. But it's not.
• 1:12:02
  What happened was not justifiable.
• 1:12:04
  What are you doing all this for? Are you planning on running at
• 1:12:06
  some point or are you just a straight up entrepreneur and
• 1:12:09
  political activist that wants to change the country?
• 1:12:12
  But. Yeah, well, I am an elected
• 1:12:13
  official. Actually.
• 1:12:13
  I, I serve on the school council for the school down the street
• 1:12:16
  for me and my son doesn't go there, but it's just like a
• 1:12:18
  group of parents that like need an extra pair of hands like, so
• 1:12:22
  I got elected by like 10 teachers and parents.
• 1:12:23
  Like it is not an election, but I tell people all the time is
• 1:12:26
  like the little bit of progress I get to make there actually
• 1:12:28
  feels way more valuable than what I do at work half the time
• 1:12:31
  because. You feel like it doesn't.
• 1:12:32
  Nothing changes. Because at work it's just like,
• 1:12:34
  I feel like I'm big against a brick wall training of
• 1:12:36
  politicians to listen to what I have to say.
• 1:12:37
  They. Don't listen at all.
• 1:12:38
  So what's the point? What's the point?
• 1:12:41
  I'm too deep into my adulthood and I have no other life skills.
• 1:12:43
  I don't know what else to do. No, but it's like, no.
• 1:12:46
  I think like I'm we're, we're at a moment where American politics
• 1:12:53
  is going to shift dramatically in the next couple years,
• 1:12:55
  whether you want it to or not, because Trump is done whatever
• 1:12:57
  he says. He's not running for a third
• 1:12:58
  term. I don't think he can physically
• 1:12:59
  run for a third term anyway, but he certainly like
• 1:13:02
  constitutionally can't. So Democrats are going to pick a
• 1:13:04
  new nominee. Republicans are picking your
• 1:13:05
  nominee. We're going to have a new
• 1:13:06
  Republican Party. We're going to have a new
• 1:13:07
  Democratic Party, and we're going to have a new country to
• 1:13:09
  move forward. And I don't know if it'll be
• 1:13:10
  better. I don't know if it'll be worse,
• 1:13:11
  but I know that I get to be one of the few people that maybe
• 1:13:14
  gets to have an impact on that in my corner of the Internet and
• 1:13:17
  the world around me. So I would like to be valuable.
• 1:13:19
  When I got started doing this, it was because I saw the Iraq
• 1:13:22
  War and I thought it was one of the dumbest things the American
• 1:13:24
  government ever did and I wanted to end the Iraq War.
• 1:13:26
  And now 20 years later, I'm here and I'm not trying to be self
• 1:13:28
  aggrandizing in that is I would like to be useful at this moment
• 1:13:31
  when I really truly do believe. I believe Donald Trump is a
• 1:13:33
  fascist. I believe that the things that
• 1:13:35
  Donald Trump is doing are a things that an authoritarian
• 1:13:37
  would do. The FCC stuff with Jimmy Kimmel
• 1:13:39
  is an obvious example of that. But it it's about he's becoming
• 1:13:42
  a single source of truth and morality for a large group of
• 1:13:46
  this country. And to me, that's
• 1:13:47
  extraordinarily dangerous. And if I saw Barack Obama doing
• 1:13:50
  that, I would say the same thing because I don't know if you
• 1:13:53
  followed this, but Tom Homan, who's the, the borders are, he's
• 1:13:56
  not just borders. Are he sort of overseas?
• 1:13:57
  All of the immigration policy he got was caught on tape from the
• 1:14:00
  FBI taking a $50,000 bribe. And it came out over the weekend
• 1:14:03
  that they caught him on tape taking a bribe, promising
• 1:14:05
  government contracts before he took office, after the election,
• 1:14:08
  before each office. And cash, Patel and Pam Bondi
• 1:14:11
  shut down the investigation. And now every single MAGA
• 1:14:14
  influencer is out there saying they have.
• 1:14:15
  Basically, they've decided that there's three talking points
• 1:14:17
  that they have relative to why this doesn't matter.
• 1:14:19
  The first one is that the deep state made him do it.
• 1:14:21
  They're arguing that the FBI entrapped him into taking
• 1:14:23
  $50,000 in a Kava bag in a DC Kava, which why would you ever
• 1:14:28
  accept a bag of $50,000 in cash? Have you ever been?
• 1:14:30
  I mean, we're both doing pretty well.
• 1:14:31
  Imagine as an entrepreneur, have you ever had a bag of cash like
• 1:14:34
  that? No.
• 1:14:34
  Exactly. So there's no justifiable
• 1:14:36
  reason, no, to ever have that unless you're like, at a casino
• 1:14:38
  and. Yeah.
• 1:14:38
  But that's a lot. Yeah, there's that.
• 1:14:41
  So the second one is Megyn Kelly literally said that she was
• 1:14:43
  like, we don't care because he's deporting immigrants.
• 1:14:45
  They were like, we don't care about corruption because he's
• 1:14:46
  deporting immigrants. And the third is that he hadn't
• 1:14:48
  taken office yet. So you can't actually take a
• 1:14:50
  bribe when you're not in office yet, which is also ridiculous
• 1:14:52
  because private citizens can also take.
• 1:14:54
  So it's really silly. And what I don't like about it
• 1:14:56
  is it's this truth and morality thing.
• 1:14:58
  Donald Trump says it's OK. So it's OK Donald Trump says
• 1:15:01
  it's true. So it's true.
• 1:15:03
  That's really scary and dangerous.
• 1:15:05
  And like, look, you manage a household budget.
• 1:15:07
  You're trying to get a job in this in this economy.
• 1:15:08
  You know, the economy is not great.
• 1:15:10
  You know, everything's more expensive.
• 1:15:11
  But Donald Trump every single day is like, America's economy
• 1:15:14
  is the hottest it's ever been. Everything's less expensive.
• 1:15:16
  Those things are dangerous. And I will keep fighting that.
• 1:15:19
  And for me, maybe it's as simple as someday my son will be an
• 1:15:22
  adult and I would like him to inherit a world that's better.
• 1:15:24
  And if I don't inherit a world that's better than what we have
• 1:15:26
  today, at least I could tell him I tried.
• 1:15:27
  And I don't know, I feel like I'm banging my head against the
• 1:15:30
  wall a lot of the times. But maybe eventually it's like,
• 1:15:32
  it's like chipping away at a block of ice eventually to just,
• 1:15:36
  and we are going to have a new version of the Democratic Party,
• 1:15:38
  new version of the Republican Party.
• 1:15:40
  So I think maybe they'll be better.
• 1:15:41
  Yeah. What about from a business
• 1:15:42
  standpoint where you're headed with that?
• 1:15:44
  We thought that. Happened.
• 1:15:45
  We're turning analyst urgency into a real company, so I
• 1:15:48
  incorporated it a couple weeks ago.
• 1:15:50
  The paid subscribers we get from Substack is incredible.
• 1:15:53
  Paid subscribers, somebody so a million plus subscribers and
• 1:15:57
  then a portion of that is paid. Yeah, so like some people pay
• 1:15:59
  like 8 bucks a month to work and right now all of my content is
• 1:16:02
  completely free. So I'm not I'm trying to not do
• 1:16:04
  a paywall for anybody. I'm just asking people to help
• 1:16:07
  support the work because they in the work they're doing so
• 1:16:09
  because of what they've been able to give us.
• 1:16:10
  We were able to buy studio space.
• 1:16:11
  We're furnishing that space. I made my first higher, higher
• 1:16:14
  community manager. I want a 10/20 X my content.
• 1:16:17
  I want to be getting more out. I want to expand in other
• 1:16:19
  verticals. I want to bring on somebody to
• 1:16:20
  talk about culture. I want to speak somebody to talk
• 1:16:22
  about sports. I want to deal with the right
• 1:16:23
  has done built these ecosystems that are really successful like
• 1:16:26
  Outkick is is really successful. I can't stand outkick's coverage
• 1:16:29
  of literally anything, but they're really, really good at
• 1:16:32
  what they've done and they have a big audience.
• 1:16:33
  Barstool. I prefer ball stool or outkick
• 1:16:36
  by a mile. I think we can build something
• 1:16:38
  like that on the left and and I think and also have a lot of fun
• 1:16:40
  with. It Mike, this has been a
• 1:16:42
  interesting and good conversation.
• 1:16:44
  I appreciate you being here, I really do.
• 1:16:45
  Coming from the city I know it's not easy getting out here with
• 1:16:47
  traffic and shit so I appreciate.
• 1:16:48
  Sorry I was for those that don't know, I was 40 minutes late
• 1:16:50
  getting here for this. Yeah, but it's all good, man.
• 1:16:52
  I appreciate people that make the trip out here so and thanks
• 1:16:54
  for doing this. I really appreciate it.
• 1:16:56
  I like the fact that you are, even though you are aligned with
• 1:16:59
  a certain, with one party, obviously, I like the fact that
• 1:17:02
  you can see both sides and you're willing to admit when
• 1:17:04
  something's off or you don't know something or that your
• 1:17:06
  party is made some mistakes too. And I think that's what it
• 1:17:09
  takes. You have to be able to care
• 1:17:11
  about the truth, what's actually going to make the country better
• 1:17:14
  and what's really happening versus just my side, you know,
• 1:17:17
  and I think it's you're talking about earlier, it's like it's,
• 1:17:18
  it's if something had bad happened, we should address
• 1:17:20
  that, even if it's in your own party, right, right.
• 1:17:23
  Because it's the truth and that's values and that's what
• 1:17:25
  makes our country stronger. So thanks for being here.
• 1:17:27
  Where can people find you, connect with you, learn more
• 1:17:30
  about you? Yeah, go to endlessergency.com
• 1:17:32
  if you want to subscribe to the sub stack, Mike Nellis and most
• 1:17:35
  major platforms. Some of them have an under score
• 1:17:37
  in it, but easy enough to find. Appreciate you being here.
• 1:17:39
  Of course. Thanks for having me.
• 1:17:40
  Thanks.