Latest / Beat The Odds with Dre, Rodney, & Brylan / Anthropic's Safety Math, Apple's Hardware Reset & The Layoff Anxiety Trap

Transcript

Anthropic's Safety Math, Apple's Hardware Reset & The Layoff Anxiety Trap · Beat The Odds with Dre, Rodney, & Brylan

• Dre: Yo guys, what's good? Welcome back to another episode of Beat the Oz. How y'all feelin' today? Rodney: In the hot seat. In the hot seat. In the hot seat. I yeah. Dre: On a win on a Wednesday? That's crazy. Rodney: I'm I mean the thing is it this this this might just really just be all in my mind, right? it it might just be all in my mind. I'm just aware that my last so so everybody knows it's performance review season, right? Everybody knows that. And for many it's stressful. I can tell you for my first performance review, I didn't really think about it that much. I didn't I didn't really think about it that much. But then you know, when my my when my manager had some feedback, brylan: No. Rodney: I I I I was surprised by some of it. So I felt as though this time around I I'm taking it with a lot more seriousness. It wasn't like, okay, we're gonna let you go or anything like that, but it was enough for to for me to be like, okay, I should probably take this serious. And so yeah, I've been I've been knee deep in dozens of changes since brylan: No. Rodney: 7 a.m. So woke up. That's the first thing I was thinking about. That's the first thing I started doing. Woke up and just touched my keyboard. That's how my life started today. So and Dre: Mm. Rodney: and and until Friday, we're gonna see if I continue touching that keyboard next Monday. So Dre: Mm-hmm. Rodney: we we we're gonna see, man. I think I think I I think I think I'm Dre: Yeah. Rodney: in a good place though, because I just got a bunch of equipment and whatnot. But we live in some tough times, man. You you can you can brylan: Hold on, y'all saw, y'all saw Microsoft? The 60,000? Dre: yes, was it? Rodney: I did. Dre: Si sixty thousand. It's crazy. Rodney: I did. I did. So it's stuff like that. It's stuff like that that makes you, it's like, you start, you start thinking, okay, okay, all right. Let me not let me not play around. And I f brylan: Yeah. Rodney: and I think managers understand that they have that. They don't say it, but they understand that that you're aware of the ecosystem. And brylan: The ecosystem. Rodney: yeah, you're you're aware of the ecosystem and how challenging it is. And I get calls for from people because of the content I do. People from Square, Cash App, people from Apple, people from Burr, people from all these different places call me and say, hey, look, this is the worst market. So what do I do writing? What do I do? That's the worst market. And so I always try to help them out. And so but my thing is I'm trying not to be them. I don't want to be them. So so Dre: Hmm. Rodney: I'm doing what I can. I'm I'm deep in it. And I'll be deep in it tomorrow morning too. I I brylan: you Rodney: I got no life right now. I ain't got no life. I told my look, look, I ain't got no life. I'm single, no kids, no, no girl that I gotta talk to. No, no, like nothing. I don't gotta talk to anybody. I don't have to say I don't have I don't I could wake up I could wake up another day. I don't gotta talk to a single person. All I'm focused on is maintaining this position. Like that's it, that that's that's it. That's it. But but but yeah man, we're gonna see. So but go ahead, bro. I'll tell you I'll tell brylan: I'm curious. Rodney: y'all what though. I'll tell y'all what though. If it go left, we're doing two pods a day. I'm sorry, two two pods a week. If y'all don't show up to the second pie, it's all good. I'll be just it'll just be me. Dre: Mm-hmm. brylan: I'm curious because yeah, very similar to you, you know, Dre: Mm-hmm. brylan: it's performance review season. And I feel like whenever that anxiety or that thought of like, what if, right, starts Rodney: Yeah. brylan: to pop up. This wasn't the case before I was a founder, but after being a founder and having your own thing, I think I Rodney: Right. Right. Right. brylan: am just super aware of controlling my destiny. And I don't like that my destiny is in other people's hands. That is something. But yeah, that Rodney: Yo, I noticed that actually. I noticed that. brylan: hasn't sat well with me, if I'm going be honest. Rodney: Yo, yo, I actually noticed that. I was thinking back to every other time I had a job, and I do think it's the market that that is adding something to it, but I feel like it's more than that because back when I wasn't a venture back founder, I never really considered the fact that I'll get let go. Like I never really thought about it. brylan: Yeah, I never thought that in my life. Rodney: I I never thought about it. I never thought about it. Dre: That's crazy. I I wish I had that peace of mind. I remember it was over 10 years ago. We had just moved to SF, land finally landed a job. I came Rodney: Yeah. Dre: in one day, my desk was cleared off. Cleared off. Everything was gone. I didn't get no more. And mind you, I brylan: shit. Rodney: Jeez. Dre: had just did a stand up with the team. Everything was cool. Everybody's smiling, laughing. I walk, I come into the office. I'm a little late coming into the office. I took took my first stand up call from home. I come in, dust was cleared off. That was over 10 years ago. That that was the day I learned there is no guarantees. There is there is no guarantee. So ever since that day, I thought Rodney: You learn sooner than later. Dre: about getting laid off at every job, every position, every time. And even my wife, she's been laid off a couple times from her come from her job. So I've seen it from her. I've experienced it myself. So I'm like, I'm just I probably got PTSD from that shit. To be honest, that's why I don't work for nobody now. I can't even do it. I can't even put myself through it. Rodney: It it you do, you do you do, you do brylan: You're like if I'm gonna be stressed out about that, let me let me stress my own self out Dre: Exactly, Rodney: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Dre: bro. I'm like I refuse to be that stressed. I can't even imagine what it what it feels like now in this environment. 'Cause I I I I see the environment we in now. Rodney: Yeah. Dre: I see the headlines, the sixty thousand people at Microsoft getting laid off. Amazon always doing cuts, Meta be doing cuts. You know, I hear about the experiences y'all have, some of our friends have as well finding jobs. So I'm aware that the market is tight. So I already know like people walking on pins and needles. if I was walking on that shit Rodney: Dog. Dre: a decade ago and it was a great market a decade ago. brylan: That is true. Rodney: Well, I pa I apologize for not really understanding your plight before. There's we have another friend Dre: Mm-hmm. Rodney: in common. his name is Victor. He had a plight before he hasn't he does not have that problem no more. Literally. Every job he gets, yeah, every job he Dre: yeah. That turned Victor into a savage. I I I get it though. Rodney: gets is straight cash, straight cash offers. And I'm talking about damn Dre: Yeah. Rodney: near million dollars. Like these are these are big, these are about I don't want to put this stuff out there, but it's He he he's he's not taking no stock, no Dre: Yeah, yeah. brylan: He... He him! Rodney: nothing. It's cash off it's cash offers. Dre: For sure. Rodney: It's cash offers. He's really good. It is what it is. And so I think there is a trauma. There is a trauma. That is that that is real. I do feel that. I can't turn it off. I literally can't relax. Dre: Mm-hmm. Rodney: I really can't. I literally cannot relax. I'm sitting here like there's not like there's brylan: So let me, let Rodney: not a like a lot. There's not there's really not a lot of evidence for things to go bad. But when you have I feel as though when you have trauma, when you have trauma, you you even if every most things, even if 95% is good, you still be like, well, there's still that that slim chance. Cause it'd be like that sometime. It'd be like a and like Dre said, you Dre: Mm-hmm. Rodney: can you can walk up one day and they just change it, your whole situation. And everybody before that was acting like they you was good. you was good. Everything was good. work is co gonna continue tomorrow. Whole time in their head, they know, they know what's coming. Dre: Mm-hmm. brylan: So I'm curious, yeah, both of you. Yeah, when you get in that mindset, it's very easy to self-sabotage, Rodney: Mm-hmm. brylan: and end up manifesting the circumstances that didn't even exist yet. And so, Rodney: True. brylan: yeah, Rodney, with that kind of being, your present and what you're in, what are you doing to keep yourself from self-sabotaging in that? just manifesting itself. Yeah, any strategies or anything you could provide for the audience? Rodney: I think for me it's just well one, I'm in a a lucky situation where I don't have a bunch of obligations and distractions. I have financial obligations, of course, that are significant and serious. But not not so like but besides that, I'm generally in a good space. And so I think that I just try to focus on what I can do. And what I can do is I can go to sleep, get good some good rest, wake up in the morning at a good time, I can work out, etc. Like I can there are things I I can do to have my performance be at a high level. And then I can also actively embrace feedback and crit criticisms and scrutiny. Like I haven't ran from any scrutiny. I'm not the happiest about the amount of scrutiny that that I personally have gotten. Not not because it's come not because it's personal, but just from the standpoint of I've embraced scrutiny and feedback and I just focused on being really productive. it's not that I had these thoughts and I woke up and then I started looking for a bunch of other jobs and I started doing all these other weird behaviors that were gonna put me in the space to where I'd be distracted from the work. I I I leaned into the work. I got more engaged. I reached I coordinated with more people on my team, etc. And I I think that I feel as though I'm trying to tweak as many things that are within my control, and that's pretty much it. outside of that, I I don't know what else. I don't know what else I could do. I f I feel like that's the best response to the but I can recognize that that it is trauma. Because going because I don't know if this was on the call, but I don't know if this is if this is on was on on the pod before we hit record. I I don't remember, but you know, just like Dre, like it it's tra that's trauma. That that's real. Drake mentioning that. I was thinking that just I was thinking that. I was like, this is this is not normal thought. this is not this is this is not Dre: Mm-hmm. Rodney: this is not normal thought. You you you you you can't ease up. Like you just can't like before before I was at ease always at a job. So yeah, I just think leaning into the work. is a good thing. because I find I I think that if I do that, that even if I get let go, or even if I got fired or whatever, or whatever it could be anything, I think that if I lean into the work, at the end of the day, I'm more skilled. I'm more skilled, I'm more prepared, I'm better. so that's how I see it. brylan: Yeah, I would say, two things, at least this what I've just been doubling down, but. Yeah, I think the first one is defense, defense, defense, defense, bro. Defense sets up good offense. And at this point of time where, you know, for any of the listeners out there, your situation is uncertain. You don't know if next week you may have a job or whatever it is. The best defense for what could come is like making sure you're protected. you know, obviously making sure all your bases are good, et cetera. Like. Because the reality is, I think we've talked about this on the pod, that so many people are going paycheck to paycheck. And Rodney: Yes. brylan: when that shit hits, in this job market, it's not going to be good. So, like, be proactive, play good defense. And I would say the other thing too is, like, I don't know if y'all have watched the Saban documentary yet, but if, bro, Dre: I haven't seen it yet. I've seen clips. brylan: if you haven't, go watch it. Go watch it. Because what's... Relevant in that documentary to what many people are facing right now is you can't be watching the scoreboard right now right now Very similar to what you were saying around you just a minute ago lean into the work lean into the process Right. We don't we we don't know what that outcome Will be because at the end of the day that decision is out of your control All you can do is influence it and the way you influence it is locking Dre: Mm-hmm. brylan: in If you're an engineer, one ticket at a time. You know, if you're a seller, Rodney: Yeah, literally. brylan: one close at a time, like lock in and let things fall how they're going to fall. But don't get trapped in this mindset of self-sabotage and allowing the negative story to become stronger than the hope that you have that you'll make it past this store. Like you can't lose that. You can't lose that. Rodney: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, that's a point. I find that you shouldn't really spend a lot of time on the negative thought. like I'm aware of it. And I think most people yeah, you'd be aware of it, but don't spend a lot of time stirring in that. most of my time is not spent thinking about getting let go, right? That's not that's not the the most where my most of my time is f is is is trying to figure out how to be more skilled. I just think that the the world that like that we're going to is a very it just gets more competitive by the day by the by the day. And you need to be clear headed. And we need to be honest about the situation. But yeah, no, you see you see how bad it is for other people out there. And as Dre mentioned earlier, you see that you see that environment to where my Microsoft employees, Amazon's employees, you know, high-level people, and then Apple employees l getting laid off for various reasons. And then you also see them them not bouncing back. I got a guy who called me, said, Look, it's never he he's in his forties. He has three kids, I think, and a wife. And he has a crib in Cali. probably somewhere near Apple, probably. It's never he said it's never taking me more than four months to get a job. He's like, What he's like, what's going on? it's never taking me more than four months. So, but that's a luxury though, right? Cause he's in his forties and he never experienced long. I'm like, So you you went this long. You you really low key been living luxuries. Dre: Mm-hmm. Rodney: You d like, no worry, no panic. And Dre: Yeah, that's a privilege. Rodney: Yeah, it's a privilege. He and I don't think he knew. I don't I really don't think he knew. And so I find that people who are working and are employed should should act like they're grateful, right? That's that's how I see it. Dre: Yep, yep. I agree with that. I agree with that. All right, we all want to take it. We got a lot of a lot of good stuff on the board today. We all want to start. brylan: I guess, yeah, let's just go ahead and yeah, let's start with that anthropic. Let's go ahead and just get that out of the way. That's one. So. Rodney: My favorite my favorite guys. Dre: Go ahead, Brian, lead us into it. I'm sure you looked at it. Rodney: My favor my favorite brylan: Hey, hey, so. Rodney: guys. Is there gonna be an argument that ensues or are we gonna be good today? Dre: No, no, no. brylan: Yeah Dre: This ain't got nothing to do with Dario. Sit Dar sit Dar brylan: Hey, Dre: sit Dario to the side. We we purely talking about anthropic, the organization. Rodney: He He he approved this though. Dre: Yeah, but we but we not talking about him right now. Let's sit him to the side for a second. Let's sit him to the side for a second. We we this is about anthropic in general, not Dario. Rodney: Okay, okay, all right, right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right. brylan: Yeah. Okay. So yeah, we're just going to, we're just going to start top at the top and then go through it. But yeah, to set some context, Anthropic formally filed their S one, I believe it was a few months ago. They, confidentially, started the filing process for their S one. And then last week they invited, different investors and bankers and things of that nature. to get a little bit insight before this went public. But I've been seeing across the timeline, people raving about like the numbers, some of the, you know, the margin, the compute spend, all of that. So we can kind of probably unpack it a little bit. But the number that people were really speaking about there were a few was one revenue. So specifically for the first half of this year, they hit, yeah, they hit $16.3 billion. And that's up from $41 million in 2023 and around $400 million in 2024. And then last year they did $4.6 billion. Yeah, that's Rodney: Incredible business. And jeez. brylan: nuts. And so, yeah, they did that. Based off those numbers, they're doing around $6.6 million of revenue per employee. So pretty efficient business compared to some of the others. In terms of operating loss, This was the interesting thing last year. They had an operating loss of eight billion dollars and then this year alone This year alone in the first half of the year is down to around 700 million dollars But most of that actually came from Q from the first quarter the second quarter of this year They actually made a profit around nine hundred seventy five million dollars in terms of you know operating the big thing to, to call out is, yeah, just to kind of call this out, you know, there was like an $81 billion number, loss number that was coming out. but I think some of the, you know, financial gurus, bankers and things of that nature really unpacked that like $73 billion of that 80, billion loss was actually like non-cash. it was more like stock compensation. that was just kind of due to their eval, their valuations going up. The other thing that was really dope was they have a lot of cash on hand. And so right now they have around $132 billion in cash and they actually had a positive operating cashflow as well. So they're spitting off dollars. And then I think the other thing too, and then we can get into discussion was like the mix of their revenue. So obviously Anthropic from the beginning has been focused on enterprise compared to OpenAI and chat GPT. that started off focusing on the consumer. So the split is kind of like 80-20. In terms of their revenue, I did find it interesting. About half of it does come through their distributors. So AWS, Azure, GCP as well. The other thing that was interesting too was in terms of their top five customers, their spend makes up 21 % of all their revenue. And so the other 25 % of that revenue, if we're just gonna kind of like assume that 30 % of that revenue is obviously broken across the tens of thousands of businesses that are like leveraging their API and things of that nature as well. then, yeah, the big thing I think people are really kind of like, or talking point that I found interesting was, obviously with them making so much revenue from, these other, computing platforms, let's not act like GCP, Microsoft, they're not building their own models, competitors, even SpaceX with XAI. And so there's been a lot of very interesting conversation I've been seeing specifically come from the finance world, less of the tech world, where they're kind of arguing that part of the reason why this was a good time for Anthropic was to go out and go out in like IPO was because the reality is, The reality is starting in 2027 to really strengthen the business. Anthropic has already started to make commitments to building its own data centers. And when it starts having to build its own data centers, it's no longer just, you know, an operational costs. well, like a cost of like being able to serve the model. There's also the maintenance of being able to operate that data center yourself. And so their underlying business potentially could change, as well, because now you have to have a sales team, you know, all that other stuff that kind of comes with that. But yeah, curious, yeah, when this came out, what kind of stood out to y'all? Yeah, what was your read on it? Dre: I thought it was an extraordinary business, honestly. I'm not really surprised by much. I think the one thing is obviously we have numbers now to put to a lot of the speculation. We spent a lot of time talking about anthropic in previous episodes. We've kind of speculated what revenue was based on obviously what's publicly available. So to actually see the numbers, none of it is surprising to me. I think it was a remarkable business. I I I actually the one surprise to me was how much cash they had on hand. And to me, what that showed me is that they're very efficient at deploy at deploying capital and really deploying it where it needs to go and when it needs to go. and not necessarily just throwing money out there or for the sake of throwing money out there. So shout out to whoever the CFO is. I can't think of his name, it is a guy. I I watched a podcast with him, but yeah, shout out to the the C F O and the in the executive management team because clearly not only do they know how to build a great product, but they also clearly know how to run a good business. This is a great business. And I think it will continue to be a good business. So what no no real surprise to me again, other than the cash on hand. And then it was good to get clarity around the losses because I know that was everybody's sticking point, eighty billion dollars in losses. so now that we have that clarity, it's clear that this is a phenomenal business, incredibly high gross margin. I think the gross margin is like eighty five plus percent, brylan: Yeah Dre: which is extraordinary. So I mean they're they're firing on all cylinders. brylan: Hold on, hold on. Let's not assume everybody knows what gross margin is. Like, Dre: Yeah. brylan: break that down. Like, even if you want to do a simplest, well, yeah. Dre: The simple way is that's how much money they make, after serving their product. When they account for the cost to serve that product and what they charge to serve it, what's left of that is the gross margin. And so whatever whatever the input costs are for them to serve their product to you, whatever you pay for it, eighty five percent of that revenue is theirs. So I mean it's a pretty it's profit, right? So that's a pretty good margin to to have. And and it's pretty standard too for like software companies. I mean I think historically what seventy percent plus is the gold standard in software. So brylan: for sass. Dre: they're they're beating yeah, they're beating the beating traditional SaaS by a pretty good margin. but just in terms of many businesses that operate today, that's amazing. that's extraordinary. brylan: Yeah. One thing I wanted to add it because I want to get your thoughts on this because I, Rodney, because I know, yeah, I want to say this was at the top of the year. We're talking about this in terms of open AI and anthropics strategy on like, do they spend more on like research or do they spend more on inference? And yeah, what I found interesting was, yeah, in their S1, they said 73 % of all the compute that they currently have goes towards research and training. and internal use, their internal models. Only 27 % of their compute is being used to serve their API and their product. And so I did find that interesting. But yeah, what was your reading? What do you think about that strategy in terms of how they're thinking about spending their compute? Rodney: What what, just the idea they're spending the majority of their compute on training the new models? brylan: Yeah, yeah. Versus theoretically, we now know why they have a lot of outages. They don't put a lot of compute towards. Rodney: They th they need to. They they need to spend a lot of time, because that's their greatest right now their greatest competitive advantage. If they were to stop doing that and yeah, they that's their creative they they can't give up that advantage. They need to. That that's a that's a very important aspect for probably how they've been able to make a lot of money. And even the fact that you pointed out that Azure and Amazon, third some of the third parties are some suppliers or however you worded it are a large portion of the revenue suggests to me that there is a large group of people who leave who believe that they have the best models. And that's a good chunk of the revenue. So they can't really afford to not have the best models. So it it it it makes perfect logical sense from my standpoint that they would spend the majority of their compute towards towards towards training new models. And but because of that loop Each time they do it, the new models get better and they get and more efficient and it's all these different things that come from it. It and I think it also suggests that what everybody sees the models capable of doing is nothing compared to what they truly can do. It's kind of like if you've ever heard of the analogy or this the metaphor when you're younger when they say most people use one percent of their brain or something super small or something like that. And I think that is a similar thing here. And they might when they come up with their stories and their headlines, etc., and their concerns, they may be considering the fact of How capable they truly are in reality, but maybe not necessarily what they've offered to the public, et cetera. because that's a lot of compute that's being used for training. And hypothetically, if you start to think about if that was more freed up, what might that end up, what might those capabilities be? And then also maybe there's an aspect of that where they're testing things internally. s and not speaking about all capabilities. So I think that's I think that's that's that's I think that's expected. I think the revenue was not surprising at all. I think on on every account I've always personally said that their revenu like to Dre's point though, w it was always speculation, but I always Was never surprised that Anthropic was making a lot of money because I always found that the core thing that many people would run into are the limits. And obviously it's a strategy brylan: Mm-hmm. Rodney: that works well and it generates some revenue. And so and they're not known for having the cheapest models at all. That's not what they're known for. So the the revenue doesn't surprise me at all. And yeah, they have some good business people. they they clearly have top talent there. The only people that can mess this opportunity up is the leadership at Anthropic, and that's it. I I think and and it's and and I think before they could even get the chance to do that. things things would things would happen if it ever went down that direction. But so far I don't I it seems like they're in a good standing, they're on a good path, and they are a strong competitor to open AI and SpaceX AI. brylan: Yeah, think one of the things I'm actually curious about is just because, you know, they've put the S1 out doesn't necessarily, I think I've seen speculation that they probably will go live in like November, but that doesn't necessarily kind of mean that's the case. The thing that I'm curious about is I think walking away from this, what is very strong is the compute story. And so even looking at the large drop across many of the chip stocks, memory, things of that nature over the last few months, they almost look like they're on discount when you get insight into the spin that is to come. And I think it was a semi analysis. did a, they did a really good, yeah, they were talking about, think, I think, I think anthropic or something is on pace to spend like 500 or $600 billion. total over the next few years on compute. And their math was assuming that it costs somewhere around a hundred billion dollars to build out, you know, one of these data centers, essentially, Anthropics is bringing on five to six gigawatts of compute. Based off of everything that I've seen from OpenAI, Google, et cetera, like that number needs to be closer to like 30 or whatever. And so like, literally when you think about it, there's still so much compute to be built and $500 billion that they're spending is small compared to it. And so, Rodney: Yeah. brylan: yeah, the other thing I think is very interesting about this story is just going to continue to be like, yeah, those hardware players, like those, the fundamental chips like Nvidia, bro. Jensen's about to cut you to raking money, bro. Rodney: Yeah, he's yeah. Yeah, he he he he's he's gonna be ranking ra raking money for the next decade. And maybe I like who knows what happens after that, but he's good. He's good. He's he he's he's good for he's good. He he's he's he's good. Every employee is is doing great. and I do wanna concede a point that I was speaking to earlier, I think it was or maybe I don't know if it was a point I was making, but I was against anthropic putting the kill humanity stuff in the S1. I don't know the exact wording, but it it it was it was reportedly in there. And Dre was in support of it. And and I would say Maybe after thinking about what Dre has said, I will go on the record and I'll say that if they if they truly believe that, then go ahead and put it in there. if if they believe that, then put it in there. don't put it in there, just like don't just put it in there. But if you really if y'all if they deeply believe they're doing this Dre: Mm-hmm. Rodney: and it could be a threat. then I guess logically it would make sense that you put it in there. there is an angle where you don't, but I think that if you believe that, then I guess put it in there. because nobody's reading it anyway. Like the thing is it's not I think they put it in there because one of the reasons why is because it's actually not going to stop anybody from investing. I don't think how many people are going to see any of that and and still not invest. I think they'll if it was if there was a serious financial consequence for doing it, maybe they wouldn't. I can't prove that though, so we can only go off what's going on right now. But I don't think there's a a real financial consequence because the the core business is so good. I think people would just it's hard to it's hard to look at a business like that and say, I'm not brylan: Do you think that ends up impacting them as once they're, once they are public, their continuation of Rodney: No. brylan: that type of language? Rodney: that's a good question. when they're public? When they're actually when they're actually brylan: Yeah, because once again... Rodney: public with the markets, when they're actually public with the markets. No, not necessarily brylan: Yeah, I Rodney: I I I think it's all gonna come down to the to to the money, man. I think it's just gonna be the dollar. I think they'll get away with b I I think No. I think now if their business numbers start looking shaky, then I think stuff will start th like that stuff, but I don't get the feeling that that Just based on what I've seen so far, I think it's almost to the point where people kinda have this feeling of acceptance or hopelessness. AI might kill us. yeah, I might i it it's not it's not ringing like it's it's not ringing like it once was. It's like you have the have you have people who it used to ring now it's not it's not ringing. It's just like yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's a weird attitude to see. It's a weird attitude because that's the world we live in right now. It's a weird attitude to see where People just say, well, yeah, this thing might kill us. Yeah, this thing might. And I'm talking about people outside of tech feeling like this. And then it's so that comes off to me like a like a helplessness. well, what can I do? I don't know if it's good psychologically for people, but it is what it is. Dre: It's funny 'cause I I remember and I I this is on record, I d whatever pie we talked about the one guy who used to work at Anthropic who did the tweet, I can't remember his name, but his tweeter went viral. And I think Rodney: yeah, yeah. Yeah. Dre: he started the tweet by saying there was what like a ten percent chance or five percent chance, I don't remember the exact percentage of of AI killing people. Rodney: Yeah. Bright than ten. brylan: Yeah, he's Dre: Yeah, I I I am at at first I just skipped past that. I didn't take that serious. I was more so like focused on his position around safety and internal position of other employees wanting to focus on safety, but just kind of like stuck in a rock in a hard place to sort of say. I found that more compelling than a statement of of people being of AI being a danger to humanity. However, I've had more time to kind of sit with it. And I I and I and I don't think it should be something that we focus on necessarily, but I do think again, I think it's the responsible thing to acknowledge the potential risks. I don't know if it's 10%. I have no idea how he even came to that percentage. I don't think he explained it in his tweet. So it's hard to say. If maybe it's one percent. Maybe it's less than one percent. I think the answer is probably a non-zero, right? I do think there's Rodney: Yeah. Dre: probably a non-zero chance that yeah, there there is a possibility that something could go wrong. What that is, we don't know, right? But there is a possi a non-zero possibility. And so I think it's a responsible thing to do to call these things out. I think anthropics should can not ness again, I don't think they should continue to call it out because you might start to start more panic. But I do think it's responsible to at least acknowledge the potential harm. And again, I think I go back to even though I know Zuck's position has changed on this, I just never remember a single moment of Zuck actually calling out and acknowledging the harm of Facebook and the products they were making until it was too late. I just never seen him do that. I I never seen it. I maybe I then go back and look at the S one and and see it's been a while since Facebook has been public. So I'll give them the benefit of doubt. Maybe they did call it out Rodney: Yeah. Dre: there. But I never heard Zuck talking about safety. I never heard Rodney: Yeah. Dre: him talking about how his products were impacting people until the point he had to come on Capitol Hill and defend his position. Then it was like, shit, okay, maybe, maybe we maybe we did do some stuff. So I I I just generally respect Rodney: It it's Dre: those founders who can just be intellectually honest about the product they have. And again, maybe maybe they don't know what the percentage is. I think that matters less of the fact that they're at least acknowledging that, hey guys, we are building something that does have the potential. To go in a different direction, then maybe we know. And then we may not be able to control it. And so at least acknowledging that versus like, no, everything's fine, every everything is good, there's no harm. Like how Jensen's kind of approaching it, I think is the wrong way to do brylan: Facts. Dre: it. And that's the way Zuck has kind of did it. Again, up until the point Rodney: Yeah. Dre: where he had to admit that those mistakes. And so again, I think the anthropic team is is handling it responsibly. I think they're going about it the responsible way to do it. And I hope Open AI kind of follows follows suit in terms of being responsible. In terms of the risk. But again, hopefully we never get there. I I pray we never get there, right? But we should at least be honest about Rodney: Yeah. Dre: it Rodney: Yeah, for sure. I I I think yeah, definitely. And that definitely. and yeah, I agree. I don't think should they they should keep repeating the message because I think the inhumanity part is a very silicon valley thing to say. And I just start thinking about I am legend and and and like Dre: Yeah. Rodney: and and so like to me is no doubt that AI's that that the introduction of AI is gonna come with a ton of problems. And so to me that being said, like a ton of serious problems, but the inhumanity is such a it's such a Silicon Valley way of saying something that I just I just don't like that phrasing. brylan: it is. Rodney: It's just I don't like that phrasing. essentially you're saying there's some stuff that can go seriously wrong. But when you're saying inhumanity, I think when I most people are gonna take that as this is gonna be one guy with a dog. And there's gonna be a one small community that's gonna be it it it's just a little bit different. But what can we expect? Th these people are not the the people who are known for the best communication, as Dre pointed with Zuckerberg. I do think though, I mean, I don't expect Zuckerberg to get a pass on this, especially for the the victims of the technology that he was that he has built and he's had to face in in court in congress etc but i think dario and zuck are the same age and i think the context is different around when dar when the context and times are different than when zuck started and then also the age you know I I don't know Dario I only know Dario as pretty much a 40-year-old a 40-year-old man who I don't I don't know him as a 20-year-old or in his early 20s or anything like that. And also in a different time when things were less about it it was just a different time. But I don't like to I don't want to excuse Uckerberg 'cause the thing is, social media has definitely created an an environment that as I've gotten older, I see just a lot of a lot of stuff that's hard to justify. and it and it didn't have to I'm not saying it it it didn't have to exist because I think social media was an in an inevitable thing that comes from the internet scaling. I think social media was inevitable. you can't you you are inevitably gonna have somebody trying to connect everyone. or people would have found a way to connect on the internet you would have you would have inevitably had that but yeah I think it is responsible especially because they they they clearly truly believe that but we'll see we'll see nonetheless great business but it's very it's very much so intelligence and whatnot So how about we talk about something that that has been getting a lot of coverage as well? So Apple last week or about a week and a half ago came out with the iPhone Duo, a photo version of their iPhone. and this is not the first formable phone in the world. I think Android has had a couple of different portable phones that have existed for a while but but But this is the first time an Apple has came out on one. Apparently they sold out in the pre- they didn't make enough. That that all could be marketing. That all like who knows? It's hard to trust anything these days. Maybe they purposely, like who knows if they truly sold out or they truly didn't have enough or they didn't know the demand. But essentially, it seemed like a lot of people want this device. I personally with with my family on my on my birthday, we stopped by Apple to look at this device. it's really act it's really cool. I think it's really cool. A really cool device. it feels you can't really get a sense of how it's like by looking at any of the photos. but bless you, Bri Bry Brian. and you can't get a sense of what it's like by just looking at the the photos, but it's real slick, it's real light. you could multitask a bit differently. but I think the highest price tag for some people, I think starting in 1800, I believe, for the lowest model, is turning some people off. I although I thought it was cool, it kind of came off like a toy to me, like something that I would buy. use for a little bit and not use. I guess if it was your phone, you you would use it consistently. But what do we think about this and and and is there any significance to this? and then I guess in the same breath, Apple also came out with the maybe just a few hours ago, they came out with a new touch screen MacBook as well. So clearly they're clearly they're trying to do a push for technology in hardware that has already existed with other platforms like Microsoft and Android, but they're but they're bringing it to their ecosystem. Dre: Hm. Yeah, that's the same play I I observe. It just looks like they're just trying to expand expand the market a little bit. I saw the touch screen Mac I don't know if it's a MacBook or what what they're calling it. But the touch screen Rodney: Yeah, MacBook, I think. Dre: yeah, yeah, touch screen MacBook today as well. And the duo. I d I mean think both make sense. I again I think this is just Apple being Apple, right? Like Apple's never been the one to try to be first. They just do it whenever they do it on their own time. So I think this is just their time. I do like though that the they are pushing more refreshing hardware, meaning they're pushing the boundaries. Instead of just giving you a refreshed Rodney: Yeah. Yeah. Dre: device, they're actually trying new stuff. You know, even going back to Division Pro, that's a new device as well. That's that's pushing the boundaries as well. So Rodney: Yeah, I love the Reserve Pro. Dre: I like the fact that they're at least pushing the boundaries on their products. I also saw a lot of a lot of pushback. Even my cousin hit me up like sending me videos of broken broken duos 'cause it's a screenscrap. I'm like, bro, it's the first I'm like, Rodney: yeah, I haven't seen that. I haven't seen that. Dre: bro, it's the first version, bro. Show me anything of the first version that it wasn't shitty. anything. Rodney: Mm-hmm. Dre: Right, you know what I'm saying? that's every every product is gonna have some defects in the first version. Judge them when they get to like version five or something. You know what I'm saying? I think it's gonna be so perfected by then. So I look forward to getting one. I wasn't gonna get one, but I'm gonna wait a little bit. but I do I do like it. I think it makes a I think it fits nicely in their portfolio of hardware devices to do what is. The touch screen laptop, I don't know. I think that has a place as well. I think it's interesting. Microsoft with their surface tablet line. They've been doing that for a long time. A lot of other manufacturers have as well. So I don't Rodney: Right, exactly. It's not no nothing, yeah. Dre: know. I I never really desired to have a touch screen MacBook, but I just never really thought about it, I guess. So I don't know if I would buy into that or not, but Rodney: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking the I see why people bought some of these products and and we'll see how how i if if the demand for the MacBook changes with the touch screen. But yeah, I feel similar with the MacBook. I don't see I don't really see the need. And you know, Apple, that that touch screen is not gonna be like, it's not gonna be an extra hundred dollars. It's gonna be an extra 400. So I I'm not really it's not that it's really about the price, but it's also about like it's also about do I just want it? Like, why do I want that? Dre: Mm-hmm. Rodney: I wasn't really convinced on the duo, although I will say it is better in person than just seeing it. It it it was better in person. And also I will say I keep one thing I want to repeat to the audience and anybody that will hear me, do a vision pro demo. Do a vision pro demo. It is beyond it exceeded my expectations. That's pretty much like I I can't really get past that, but it exceeded my expectations. Vision Pro is an underrated product. I think it's just simply that it costs so much that nobody looks at it. It's it's what's the point? What's the point of looking at it if it's thirty six hundred dollars, thirty five hundred dollars, well why look at it? brylan: So I think I might have a little bit of different perspective, right? Because, Rodney: Sure. brylan: yeah, I think the frame we should be looking at this device through is the creator economy, right? If we think about the creator economy and what social media has literally done to how consumer companies, enterprises are now getting in front of buyers, it is through social media, right? And I think one of the things that really resonates with me is like my company right now, we've been like really revamping our UGC program. And so because of that, I've been getting close to seeing like, you know, for these folks that are creating content for a living, what does it look like? Yes, you're going to have the folks who are just, you know, every day, just kind of like speaking, you know, to a phone, but some of these folks, they have very sophisticated setups. And I think. When you look at this device and the price compared to, if I'm a creator who is making tens of thousands of dollars, who is probably going out there and purchasing specific gear for what they're doing because they're approaching this as their career. This is cheap to that because oftentimes people are like, you know, maybe getting mics, maybe they're, you know, spending money on, you know, getting a camera. Cameras have to come with lenses. Lenses are sometimes thousands of dollars by themselves. And now you get all that packaged and this one device. And I think part of the reason why I think Apple that that's the direction Apple was kind of going with this is, yeah, I remember. Rodney: The dual. brylan: Yeah. The duo specifically the duo is like, even when, they were demoing some of the features, at the keynote, they were specifically creator workflows. And then also Literally Apple just shipped a huge Rodney: Yeah. brylan: update to their Apple creator studio As well, and so it seems Rodney: Yeah. Right. brylan: like they're starting to double down on Where where yeah, we're just where the world is going that would that would that would be my bet is they're going after that Market on the premium Rodney: Yeah. I see. I see. So a so app so Apple, Meta and X and and Google and YouTube all want everybody to be skillless and broke focusing on creating random pranks in grocery stores and in malls with their meta glasses and their iPhone duos and whatever else they find. Is that the future that everybody's supposed to be so excited about? Where everybody's just is just distracted and f and focus on mindless mindless nonsense, creating mindless content. I mean I'm that's just that's A very cynical view of it, but most of we can't sit here and say that the majority of content is high quality. We know this is not to be true. We know this is not to be true. look, I I don't know what to say. I don't I don't know. It's just weird, it's just weird. It's just this weird world where we're so entertainment focused. it reminds me it it does feel like we're in a circus. it feels like we're brylan: facts. Rodney: in a circus. And don't get me wrong, I do see here's the thing. I didn't see the cr the iPhone Duo demo. So I didn't know I mean I did see Speed, the streamer who was invited, so that should have gave me an idea that that was part of maybe some of the angle there. But iPhone Duo di k in person came off a little bit like a business device a bit. It kind of came off like a little bit a Portfolio a little bit like you you open it up and they even have certain cases that look like it you just look you just look your own business you you look like your own business you look serious it's so that's what I took from it from just my own but see that's also from the standpoint of I didn't watch the the the event I didn't put two and two together with the streamer that was invited etc I didn't see some of that stuff you're talking about so I didn't see that Dre: think this I think this is Apple just trying to be competitive. Maybe maybe part of it is the competitive. I'm sorry, the creative lant thing. Which I didn't even know creative economy was still a buzzword. I thought that I haven't heard that in so long to be honest. I I didn't know that was still a thing. But brylan: Bro, I hear that shit every day. Dre: bro, it's been so long since I heard it. I'm like creative economy. I'm like they they didn't die yet? They still around but I I I I actually think this is Rodney: Bro, it's it's crazy. Right. No, yes. Heavy. brylan: You Dre: I think this is a market this is a market place a market play. Meaning like Where is Apple really heavy at, right? i they're really heavy in Asian markets, like China, for example. Votable Rodney: That's true. Dre: phones are are are very big there. Photable phones are very big in places like South Korea, right? They're very big in Japan. they're very big in other markets. Just not as big here, right? Like you do have Samsung devices here. Like I have a couple friends that have Samsung devices and they have the photoables, but aside from that, there's not really a lot of them here. So I actually think this is market this is Apple. playing the game and realizing that they gotta be competitive and that the switching cost to switching a device for some people in certain markets is much lower than what it is in other markets. Right. And so in Asia for example, if you're Huawei and you can come out with these cool superphones. the devices they're coming out with China is is nuts. It's competitive. It it it it's very, Rodney: Extremely c competitive. Extremely Dre: very competitive and Apple's market share and revenue Have been declining in some of these markets. It's not because people don't like the iPhone. It's just they're just getting killed by other really competitive companies that are happening to catch up with them on a robust ecosystem that includes storage and all continuity across devices and all this stuff that Apple once was proprietary to them, no longer the case. And so they have to compete. They have to make devices and hardware that is on par with the market. And I think some of these cases, again, here in the US, I think they could be a little bit more relaxed, a little bit slower. I think the affinity for Apple is a little bit stronger. but again, when you step outside the US, it's a very cut cutthroat market. Rodney: I love that. Dre: and and I and I think they have to just compete with that. And so that's what I think. And then I on the on the touch screen MacBook, I think where they're going with that is they're gonna eventually make MacBook like a tablet. Like I think they're gonna make it so that the screen can detach from the keyboard. I think that's probably where where they're where they're going with that. I think they're just doing it in phases, but I think that's ultimately where they're going. And again, that's 'cause that product is very common in Asian markets. Lenovo has been doing that for a long time. Huawei has been doing that for a long time. So I I think it's just time for Apple to dance and actually compete at the hardware level. and it seemed like that's kind of Rodney: I want them too. Dre: what they're doing. Rodney: I love to see that. I love to see I I think they've gotten away with squeezing customers for a long time. I get it. High quality premium brand. but to Dre's point, there are people who are creating high quality devices for much less in other in other places and there's nothing stopping Americans from getting it's just probably just a bit more inconvenient to do that. So that's probably the main reason why Americans are not getting some of those different devices that are in in some of these Asian countries. But I've seen some of those devices and they are really good. They meet the specs. Actually in fact they beat Apple in many in many regards and the really only downside is the the software and the perception of the software and so but and right now Apple has a still has a strong hold on that the perception of of their software, the perception of their ecosystem, but that's not a forever moat. And so who knows how long that lasts. But either way, I'd like to see them be more competitive and yeah, I think Apple has squeezed a lot out of people. I think I think Apple has squeezed a lot out of people. I think they I think at Dre: hell yeah. Yeah. Rodney: some point at some point you gotta give at some point the the the relationship has to be more balanced where the the consumer is getting like w because what it what it feels like sometimes, and this is beyond Apple, but Apple's a part of the part of this issue, is that We currently live in a world in America where consumers and just the everyday person, including myself, It's squeezed on every angle. You can't trust anybody. Everyone's trying to get an extra few dollars here and everybody's trying to get an extra ten percent, an extra twenty percent, an extra thirty percent. You make a mistake, you forget to pay something. okay, it canceled, but now when you renew it, it has to be an extra, it has to be an extra 30% every month, or it's just like it's just everybody's trying to get an extra little bit more and to the point where it makes you feel like you can't trust anything. You go to a mall, like I was telling my family the other day, you go to a mall and you walk into a store. Or you in and you you pick up a candle. You don't even think look at the price. And then you go I go to the cash register, it's $50. It's like, it's like, it's like you can't even trust, you can't even, you can't even, and and then as a matter of fact, a mall that we used to go to growing up, 12 oaks, Trey, on a Friday evening, almost empty. Almost empty. brylan: Mm. Rodney: What's going on the that that that shows that that that that tells you something. I'm not saying it has all to do with the price, but that is a multitude of factors, and I believe price is one of them. Cause clearly people don't feel like cause there p cause there are places we we used to go to the mall just to chill, not cashing out and going crazy, like there's couches, there's people there, whatever it is you run into and and I'm going on a Friday. And there's nobody there's the it it feels empty. are people even living are people even living? Do they feel like they can't or or is it or or or are things too convenient where they just feel like, okay, what's the point of going? there's just so many different factors and it's and it feels strange to me. And I think it's hard to put it all together, but I think Apple was part of the problem. I d I do think Apple is part of the problem. That not only are they taking money from you, a lot of it, a premium a premium amount of it, they're also selling you the device that provides all the distractions that makes it harder for you to make more money. Unless you of course are investing in the productive stuff, like the MacBook Pros and stuff like that, to do high end professional work. But even still, you're still even still, even still. So it's weird. It's some weird stuff. There's th this strange. It's strange. There's no reason why a mall with new stores, looks great, should have nearly no one in there on a Friday evening. On a Friday, a mall. It it it it looks like it's on the direction of being the next Northland mall, bro. Like tw like what are we talking? Like what like what is that? And and I love Northland. I was a big fan. I I was I I was a big fan. I used to stay over there before I used to go there before I would go to so it's just weird, man. Dre: Mm-hmm. Rodney: It's just w it's just Dre: Yeah. Rodney: and I and I think yeah, no, these companies need to dance. They we need competitors. We need people coming out here and and and making competitive products and competing. And that's the only way. Dre: Yeah, I agree. I agree. I agree. All right. Rodney: All right, man. Dre: I got little bit of time. We wanna do one more? Rodney: Yeah, yeah, let's do one more. Let's do one more. What let's see, let's see. What do you think is the Dre: I have one unless you got something. Rodney: Yeah, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. Dre: Okay, well I I think it feeds fees nicely into what you were just talking about in terms of being competitive. So our good guy, Palmer Lucky, over at Andrew. We you know, we're a huge fan Rodney: yeah. Dre: of Palmer Lucky. We've covered Andrew a lot. I think we all love the company, love their products. Speaking of a company this this you know, we were just talking about hardware. I think, you know, they they are a leader in terms of making American technology, software, hardware. an entire ecosystem. They built a lot of stuff for the military, for police departments, for for countries as well. But recently Pomerlucky just came out of stealth with a new company called Warhound. it literally just announced it five days ago. So October twenty second came out of stealth mode. And essentially what it combines is genetics and cloning technology and specialized training for for literally breeding military police in emergency response dogs. Right. So essentially what they're gonna be doing is, you know, leveraging software, leveraging technology to essentially one second, let me see. Hold on, I gotta refresh my audio not working. Hold on. Rodney: Hold on, hold on. I think I think Dre's connection just went out. So we're gonna wait just a little bit. In the meantime, I guess I'll just before it but yeah I just wanna actually touch before before Dre gets back on here. If he gets back on here before then, and if he doesn't then we'll we'll just end on on on his on on that. But I did do I did want to touch on that last part about w we started this off with the layoff conversation. and then later we started to talk about we started hold on, let me send dragon edges. And then we start I I start I started making a point about Apple and then later the mall, my birthday, and all these other things. but genuinely I do see this as a as a significant problem. And there's multiple of factors where you have constant feeling feeling of there's not an abundance of jobs. There is and if you have a job that need to hold on for dear life for that job, otherwise you'll be, sent back out there, on your own to figure it out. And then there's this also this other aspect to where you have these companies who are doing everything they can. doing everything they can to it's not letting them back into the studio. This is not good. Okay. yeah, I think Dre's having some connection issues, but Hopefully all that stuff was we have this multitude of factors going going up. and it's odd. It it's very odd. Like I said, there's layoffs, there is price gouging is not the right word, but it's the best word I can think of on my mind right now. Then you have these companies who have taken so much for these great devices, and they still continue to want a lot from them. But those same devices are not providing the same value as they once did. And they used to be much more magical, much more fun when you got them. But then not only that, there's these outdoor spaces. I'm not saying all outdoor spaces, I'm not saying that, and part of this could be regional depending on where you're at. But what I am pointing to is that. That there is a lot going on in in the world, and especially specifically United States, and people are stretched, people are feeling that some people are staying inside either due to convenience, due to distractions, or due to not having enough money, or due to working a lot and a lot of obligations. And what I want to see is a world where essentially people don't have to think as much. They don't have to think as much. They can enjoy they can focus on the experience, whether it's individual or with or with friends or family. And that's what I want to see. So hopefully that's where things are headed. And I believe competition is a part of that. And so we'll see what happens. Alright guys. See you on next one.