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Tariffs vs Crypto: Good or Bad?🔥with Sue Ennis · The Paul Barron Crypto Show

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Today we're going to be taking a look at the markets,
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: also take a look at some of the regulatory framework
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: around crypto and blockchain, how tariffs may affect all of this.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: It's going to be a good one. My name miss
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Paul Barren. Welcome back into tech Path. Before I get started,
• 0:19
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• 0:51
  Speaker 1: let's go in today with the interview. We've got Sue
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Ennis coming in from HUT eight. Great to have you
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: back on the show here. Sue it's been a long time.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: How are you hi, guys, happy to be back so
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: much to get into today and looking forward to getting
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: into the discussion.
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Well, so let's go first up with some of the
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: things that are happening with DAE. Obviously, the acquisition has occurred,
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: all that has changed. I know you guys have your
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: HQ here in Miami. How are things running with hotdait?
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: Is there anything you can share that are some tidbits
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: of updates?
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So we actually have our earnings, our Q three
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: earnings are coming out tomorrow morning. Still have over nine
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: thousand bitcoin on the balance sheet. Pursuing We've got a
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: massive pipeline of power that run in the middle of closing.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: Part of that pipeline is AI eligible because there's obviously
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: been a tremendous trend and pivot because of the there's
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: not enough power to feel this demand for AI, and
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: so miners are looking like a potential power opportunity for
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: AI data centers. So we've got that piece of our
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: business that's going hot. We've got our self minding business
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: that's going hot. Just signed a new deal with Bitman,
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: So yeah, lots in the hopper and we're excited to
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: get into it tomorrow morning on earnings.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: So earnings coming out for how today the framework of
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: miners in general when you look at how miners? Were
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: you at the mining summit here in Miami here recently, Yeah, do.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: You guys get a chance?
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: I heard quite a bit from there in terms of
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: just some of the topics. Obviously a lot of people
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: were looking toward regulatory alignment. What might happen if you know,
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: a Trump presidency could occur. Now that that has happened,
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: what does it look like in terms of just the environment,
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: this could be regulatory environment, the tariff scenario that might
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: play out. Where are you guys, What are some of
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: the strategic things that you guys are starting to talk about?
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think, you know, let's talk first about
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: the tariff. So obviously he proposed hypothetical ten percent based
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: tariff on all trading partners and the sixty percent potential
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: tariff on China. And so one of the things that
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: while we've we're doing lots of reading on is how
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: this could potentially you know, we read a lot of
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: the stuff that comes out of Morgan Stanley and GP
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: Morgan and those cell side analysts are talking about how
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: those moves alone, forget about mining, could potentially create a
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: one point four percent drag on US GDP and create
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: an increase of zero point nine percent on the PC
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: Personal Consumption Index. So if we then have a situation
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: where we get back into a hot inflationary environment, the
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: FED is going to have to then probably start to
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: raise rates in order to control inflation. Obviously, higher rates
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: slow down the economy. And where I'm going with this
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: is that, as we've seen in the past, when rates
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: are rising, this usually creates a suppression of bitcoin price
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: activity because bitcoin is still seen as somewhat like a
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: risk on asset. So, for example, when we saw the
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: fifty point basis cut in September, bitcoin rallied within the
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: next twenty four to forty eight hours by about six percent.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: And so that's sort of my long winded answer as
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: to what we could potentially see on the tariff side
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: is that, you know, we definitely could see some price
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: action that would obviously be negative for miners because we're
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: incredibly dependent on continuing to clip you know, sexy margins
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: on our business. It obviously wouldn't put us out of business,
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: but it definitely would create compression in margins for the
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: bitcoin minors. If we do see rates come back on
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: again and bitcoin start to sell off. I think another
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: really interesting nuance of the terraffs is that eighty five
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: percent of energy storage and batteries for the renewable power
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: space come from China, and so if we and so
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: storage is a very key piece of technology for the
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: renewable power space. Power can be very in committent, and
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: you at all times need to have back up, back
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: up load and load balancing. And so if this then
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: becomes difficult for solar for renewable companies to either import
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: or or creates price pressures for them. Subsequently, this also
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: could impact miners that are co located with solar, as
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: if there's less investment going into solar, if solar projects
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: are being shut down because they're just not economical, then
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: obviously miners that are co located there that that could
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: also cause some tensions. But in general, I do think
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: that the one thing that we are very excited about
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: is a pro energy policy easy permitting. We're hearing a
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: lot about ease of permitting, you know. Another thing we've
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: been hearing is about how Trump may you know, reduce
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: the IRA, the Inflation Reduction Act subsidies. We're again we're
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: not particularly taking a political view, but the stuff that
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: we've been reading is that we're not so sure that
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: that's going to get rolled back. The reason for that
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: is those IRA subsidies had a tremendous impact in red
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: states like Texas. So Texas actually surpasses California now in
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: terms of being a renewable energy superpower in the US.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: So we don't think that the IRA is going to
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: get rolled back, probably as fast as I think some
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: other people maybe do, just because of how much red
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: state support it is happening. But anyhow, Yeah, those are
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: some of the things we're watching in terms of how
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: this effects are our industry.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: You look at this headline right here. Economic policies may
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  Speaker 1: launch the US dollar rally, This could also hurt emerging markets,
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: and there's a lot of miners that are in emerging
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: markets that have low energy costs. And also we're seeing
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: emerging countries that also are looking at bitcoin mining as
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: a whole as a strategy, which most likely will take
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: even a more accelerated approach with the US maybe adopting
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: well will be adopting bitcoin as a strategic reserve. Clearly,
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: we'll talk about that in a second. But a couple
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: of points that we're in this article that I think
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: are interesting. This was in twenty eighteen when the administration
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: Trump's administration imposed a twenty five percent tariff on half
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: of everything important from China. That caused the yuon to
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: respond by falling like ten percent against the dollars. So
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: the dollar continues to have strength there, which is I
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: guess good in general for markets. But if we're seeing
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: a bitcoin reserve against the dollar, that could get very
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: interesting over time. And then if if we see this
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: new administration push a little bit further, how do you
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: think the balance of power for a lot of these
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: emerging countries. Do you feel like the dollar is just
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: going to continue to gain strength or maybe if those
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: countries are starting to move into more of a position
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: on bitcoin that they themselves are also I was a
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: solid Nay Boukeley. He was like, I don't know what
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: the number was, like one hundred million or something just
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: on their investment so far for a small country like Elsalvador.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: What are your thoughts on the international impact?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, So Vanak actually did a really interesting piece. A
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: couple months ago, I did like a little log on
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: it talking about the potential price action for bitcoin if
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  Speaker 2: it were to capture even just ten percent of the
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  Speaker 2: global trade or five percent of domestic trade, and subsequently
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: two point five percent of reserve assets on banks balance sheets.
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  Speaker 2: So part of the thesis behind and sorry in van X,
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: they were predicting that by twenty fifty, if those conditions
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: were in place, bitcoin would be trading at two point
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  Speaker 2: nine million per coin. And so part of the thesis
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: behind that is that other economies, emerging economies, the bricks,
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: for example, will start to turn away from the US
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  Speaker 2: dollar as a reserve currency number one as a potential
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: terror for retaliation number twos as the US debt continues
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: to increase. Plus you know the merging market. Dominant reserve
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  Speaker 2: currency economies like the US dollar, the British pound, the EU,
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: and the EN also have aging populations. They don't exactly
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: have explosive GDP growth on the horizon, So increasing debt
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: trade wars not exactly explosive GDP growth. Outlook are some
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  Speaker 2: of the fundamental reasons behind the thesis that bitcoin could
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  Speaker 2: get a larger slice of global trade status could get
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  Speaker 2: a larger slice of domestic trade status and reserve assets
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  Speaker 2: in on banks balance sheets, which obviously would definitely suppress
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: demand for the US dollar. And so it'll be really
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: interesting to see sort of how those nuances play out.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is going to get really interesting because you're right,
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  Speaker 1: the balance of power could shift. We've already started to
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  Speaker 1: see it. You mentioned bricks and thirty six countries now
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  Speaker 1: with a GDP greater than that of the G seven.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: It'll be interesting to see if we start to see
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: the United State, well, we will start to see the
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: United States in a much more positive bitcoin scenario. So
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: this could roll over almost in a way that bitcoin
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: would benefit both here in the US and abroad. The
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: question is going to be the dollar going forward. Speaking
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: of that, you got to talk about the Secretary of
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: Treasury coming in. Now it looks like the leading pick
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: is going to be Scott Besson, who is also very
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: pro crypto. You know, so we may end up with
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: an administration that is kind of all hands on deck
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: pro crypto. Here's my question to you, Sue, do you
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: think with everything that we've seen in just a very
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: short period of time and a lot of things have
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: opened up that possibly the United States could move into
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: the pole position around all things blockchain, crypto, bitcoin.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: I mean, look, I certainly think it's possible, particularly if
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: we see an SEC replacement for Gary and if Dan Gallagher,
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: the former CLO of Robin Hood comes on. He's been
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: as the new SEC chair. He's obviously very pro crypto.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: Hester Pierce is also in the running. She's been incredibly
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: pro crypto. Paul Atkins is also in the running for
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: SEC chair, and he's been very known for his deregulatory
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: deregulation stance. Plus again all of the on ramps that
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: we're seeing, plus asset managers investing in the space. Trump
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: obviously signaling that he's pro pro the asset class. I
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: do think that we are entering a new era. Also,
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: I think we need we need to step back a
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: little bit and talk about how the US already holds
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: a tremendous amount of bitcoin. So I was looking up
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: some numbers. They hold about fifteen billion worth a beat
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: of bitcoin. China holds about fourteen billion, the UK holds
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: about two billion. Now, a lot of that coin is
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: coin that was accumulated from law and law enforcement siege.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: But the fact that they're still holding onto the asset class,
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: in my opinion, is a signal that there is some
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: sentiment of value associated with that. And then obviously as
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: this new rhetoric with this new president, I do think
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: that we're going to see that start to get a
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: lot louder. And again, like I said, talking back to
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: that bank piece about if bitcoin were to capture a
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: greater percentage of global and domestic trade and bank reserve assets,
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: it definitely makes a lot of sense for the US
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: to start building up a position there.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: Well, I think the key here, and they've already started
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: to kind of oka this was some of the strategies
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: that are played out on that. I'll talk about that
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: in a second, But back to your point about Gary Ginsler.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: Here's metal law man talking about how quickly we saw
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: the sec chairs of past vacate their seat. You look
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: at twenty sixteen, it was Mary Joe White. She announced
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: her resignation on the fourteenth, so basically seven days later
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: or six days later, Biden was elected, and then Jay
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: Clayton announced his resignation on the sixteenth, so about two weeks.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: And then here we are on November fifth, Gensler yet
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: to announce his resignation, but I'm anticipating that we're going
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: to see that. You think that's going to be a
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: major trading day.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: I think that's going to be a crazy trading day,
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: trading day.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: Okay, all right, you're with me on that as well.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: So it's one of those omega candles as they call it.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: Would be in saying going forward, what about going into
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: the idea of the bitcoin reserve itself when you look
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: at this as a whole, because if this wins as
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: a strategy for the US, I would assume Trump, being
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: the energy guy he is, he's probably going to start
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: looking and opening up an opportunity here for bitcoin miners
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: to literally flood into all sorts of areas in the
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: United States. Texas already a big startup area for miners.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: But what do you think that's going to do in
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: terms of just the market for miners here in the
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: United States.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so again, I do think we're going to have
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: certainly more demand again if Trump makes it a lot
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: easier to get permits through, if he does facilitate again,
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: notwithstanding the whole terraff activity, but more renewables coming online,
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: renewables need load balancing partners. Miners are extraordinary at that
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: we really are a partner in the transition to renewable energy.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: You know, you've got guys like Jack Maller's who are
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: or sorry, Jack Dorsey, who's now getting into bitcoin mining
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: and really trying to focus the ethos of making it
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: incredibly accessible for anyone to become a bitcoin minor. So yeah,
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: I do think we are in an age of potentially
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: a renaissance for bitcoin mining in North America.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: Here very cool. I want to play a clip for you.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: This is the clip basically just talking about a new
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: acquisition of bitcoin by the US government.
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: Take a look, and most bitcoin miners are all seeing
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: double digit percentage gains as well. Donald Trump remember promised
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: that all future bitcoin will be mined in the US
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: and pledged to rapidly build out the country's energy production
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: and transmission infrastructure, which is a great thing for those
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: power hungry miners. This is one of multiple commitments made
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: by the President elect two of the crypto industry.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: Do you think Trump is going to hold his position
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: in terms of the promises he's made so far?
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: I mean, look, you never know what things. You know,
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: politicians will will say a lot of things in order
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: to get elected. I do think though, given his position
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: on energy, I do think, given the potential removed Gary
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: Ginzer and someone again like Dan Gallagher when we're Clo
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: O Robinhood coming in, I I do think that we
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: are going to see a very much more favorable environment
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: that we've traditionally operated in. And so I think I think,
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: I think it's going to be extremely interesting.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, extremely interesting. I like that one.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: So I can get into it. I get it. I
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: get it.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: I get very political there, so I get it. I
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: completely understand.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: I think all the rest of these, all the ingredients
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: are in place for a very favorable mining environment.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: Okay, all right, well then there you go. Then that
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: I think the key is is the right things have
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: to happen. You know, as long as he's got the
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: right people around him, that could become a good thing.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: Do you think he's going to be able to build
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: the right kind of team? You know that. I think
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: he's going to have a cryptozar. That is a role
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: that is being talked about right now. There's many people
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: that could potentially be in that in that discussion, but
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: I think this is an important selection process for him,
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: especially when you look at blockchain and the complexities of it,
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: how much it has in terms of implementation on society,
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: but investment size, but also the technology itself. Who would
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: you put on that team you have an idea of,
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: like if you had a dream team of crypto people
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: to help advise the government, anybody.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: I actually love this question and just fun fact for
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: your audience members who may not know that the Crypto
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: Lobby was had one of the largest pack donations of
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: any group. I think we donated something like one hundred
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: and sixty million, which was like a record, a record
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: donation from one one particular industry like crypto. Okay, so
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: I definitely would have Dan Gallagher on there. I got
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: to say, I am a Meltem Demiriz fan.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: Oh well for you, Yeah, she'd be good.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: She's been VC builder, like she is a proven build
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: older of enterprise, of crypto adoption. She was an early
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: adopter of crypto and early advocate for crypto. She's super brilliant.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: She's definitely not a linear thinker. So I would put
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: her on the team. Dan Gallagher, I'd have to think
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: about it. I definitely would want like an an energy
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: star and someone who understands sort of where energy is going,
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: I e. Like the need for easier permitting, which Trump
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: has already signaled, but I think I think maybe sort
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: of more more meat around around those initiatives, around making
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: sure that permitting is is a lot easier. You know what,
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: I would love someone on his team who understood the
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: potential for small modular reactors. So one of the problems
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: right now in the nuclear power space is that it
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: is very difficult to get permits through, Like the permitting
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: process right now is anywhere from like five to seven years,
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: and so I think someone on his team who could
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: help sort of reform permitting and infrastructure approvals on that
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: side of the power space I think would be super interesting.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: So yeah, those are some of the picks I think
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: I think that I would I would have for Trump.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: Do you think with I mean, because digital assets is
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: it's a complex landscape. There's a lot of new innovation
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: happening outside of the mining space, but you know, more
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: on the side of the ethereum network, which is a
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: little bit you know, different in terms of how tech
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: is built. But you look at someone like a Mark Cuban,
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: who's been very vocal and good for I think the
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: space in general. But I think he shot himself in
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: this in the foot going so hard the other way
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: against Trump. Do you think Trump could ever forgive him
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: and say, hey, this is a good guy that could
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: come on and maybe assist in helping the space. Do
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: you think he'd give him a chance.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: I think he's a man of the art of the deal,
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: and I think if there's a deal to be strategy,
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: that he's going to do it. So I think absolutely
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: everything is within the realm of possibility with the new president.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot happening over here at Amazon. They're stepping
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: up their AI chip development. They're trying to cut their
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: dependence on in Nvidia. We're probably going to see some
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: big plays like this around the tech space for sure.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: Do you think this is needed or do you feel
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: like Nvidia is just so far ahead that most of
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: these chip makers may never catch up.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: No, I think certainly. You never want to have a
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: situation where there's only one supplier of a key technology.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: I think, you know, competition is great. I think optionality
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: is great. The same way that we've seen in the
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: minor space. You know there's bitmain record BT Kanan. You
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: want to be able to have your you know, you
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: don't want to have a situation where there's a monopoly
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: or an oligopoly in any sort of advanced and nascent
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: tech industry. I think so, I think that this is
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: definitely a good thing. I think again, we have to
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: go back to the tariff situation because right now, despite
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: all the subsidies that are going towards chip production and
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: manufacturing chips in North America and in the US, all
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: of those subsidies really are only going to make something
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: like a one percent dent into actual chip production. AKA,
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: we are still briliant on Asia, China, Taiwan. So but again,
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: that's going to be very difficult if everyone has to
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: pay sixty percent tariffs or you know, just crazy tariffs
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: in order to import some of the materials that are
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: needed to make these chips. So it'll be super interesting
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: to see how that how that all plays out.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we just did a big video on render
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: around decentralized cloud compute yesterday, and this is something that
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: I'm continuing to see a lot of advancements with what
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: they've been able to do. So I'm intrigued around where
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: that technology is going to take us soon. Last question
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: to you, Sue, is what are you hold in today?
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: What's your portfolio look like? Anything?
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: Good? So I'm super interested in deepen in deep in Okay,
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: all right, so like like render, like Helium. I was
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: a super earlier adoptor in Helium, and then I actually
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: tried to mind Helium myself, but then I got I
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: got a trash ask and the company went out of business.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: But I think any sort of deepen opportunity is super
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: super interesting. Obviously, hold a little bit of bitcoin, hold
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: a little bit of Solana, and then I'm on the
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: board of DeFi Technologies. I obviously work for HUTT, So
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: I'm also just very overweight crypto in general in my
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: in my life. So yeah, very well.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: Like the rest of us, we cannot we have to
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: fight the urge, you know, to completely go all in
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: on this, on this technology and advancements. Anyway, Hey, listen,
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: this has been great having you back on. Thank you
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: so much. We got to get you back on more frequently.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: Always fun to have you. Thanks against to, We appreciate it.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. Happy to be
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: on anytime.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: All right, Okay, good deal?
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: Are you guys?
• 21:57
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• 21:59
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• 22:19
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