Latest / The SH!T Sandwich Generation / Sibling Silence & Showdowns: Who Will Actually Show Up?

Transcript

Sibling Silence & Showdowns: Who Will Actually Show Up? · The SH!T Sandwich Generation

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody prepares you for this part.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Not the surgeries, not the cancer, not the medical decisions.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: They prepare you for those, but no one prepares you for sitting there wondering who's actually going to show up.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because someone when someone you love gets sick, families don't usually fall apart.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: They really just become more of who they already were.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the shit sandwich generation, the podcast for anyone caught between aging parents, growing kids, careers, and everything life throws in between.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Susan here with my sister Mary Beth, and let's get into today's sandwich.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: So, Mary, I feel like you ended up being the unofficial organizer of everything.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: So, how did this start?
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't know how I exactly became the unofficial organizer.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think, well, let's let's kind of re go back a little bit.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: So we now have surgeries, two surgeries scheduled.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's on the books.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: We know it's gonna happen.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I I probably became the organizer because I was at, I would say, a fair amount of the appointments, knew one of the surgeons.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I think I had her her cell number, so there was a little bit of texting.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: The vascular surgeon had ended up calling me, so I had his number.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I I think I just by default, uh I we're both physicians, right?
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: So we medically have the most understanding.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it was gonna be either me or you that became the default organizer.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: And on this one, it just happened that I think because it was my specialty that I became the default organizer, right?
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think so.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was just assumed that because we were physicians, we knew the most about the healthcare system, that one of us would manage it.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, dad was really good at bouncing between the two of us and asking questions sometimes to the point where it became a little confusing.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: Because I was like, why are you asking me this when Mary knows the answer to this?
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: But I definitely think, you know, it was you had the numbers, the some of the surgeons were calling you directly, you were calling them, and it just kind of became the natural flow that you were you know unofficially in charge.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: And again, we had that, we had a group text between all of the siblings that my dad wasn't on this one.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: It was just the the four of us, so that we could kind of be on the the same page.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: So everyone, one, knew what was going on.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: Two, so we would kind of coordinate, okay, who's gonna be at the the surgery.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, have to get down to to New York City at what time did you have to be down there, Saturday?
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was, I don't know, five or six o'clock in the morning.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: It was early.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: It was early.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: So somebody's got to take off work, get down, get mom and dad down to the hospital for for surgery.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: One, everyone's nervous.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: Two, it's you're hitting, yeah, maybe not hitting as much traffic because you're gonna be off a little bit off hours, but have to get in there and it's nerve-wracking.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's a big surgery.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: Mom didn't want the surgery, everyone's nervous.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: So trying to plan and trying to plan, okay, we we know we're gonna be in this hospital for a couple days while she recovers, but then we have to transfer to another hospital.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: So we're looking at a pretty fairly decent stay in the city.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: So, okay, now, you know, so we have this text line.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: All right, who's gonna be at the surgery?
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: Who's gonna be there the the next day?
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: What are we gonna do for dad?
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's there's a lot of logistics, and I think in all uh in everyone's, you know, in any kind of hospital stay, there's a lot of logistics and you know, if you have siblings, you're trying to because it's a lot, you're trying to divvy up uh as much as you you can because it's it's a lot on on one person.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: And hopefully you have siblings.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't, unfortunately, you know, you're kind of stuck with it all, and that's a hard, really hard place to be.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: And that takes a lot of strength and a lot of resilience to to do that.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I applaud anyone that doesn't have siblings and is is doing this all all the themselves.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: But then, you know, you have those family dynamics, right, Susan?
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: You have families that, you know, well, we happen to be physicians, so again, our siblings are gonna defer a little bit to us, but there's families where everyone gets along and every may everybody lives close, and there's families that are all spread a around.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: So sometimes families are all gonna jump in, and there's some families where I'm sure not everyone uh wants to jump in or can jump in, but there's a lot of families maybe where not everyone is always willing to raise their hand first, right?
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: And and that might be because logistically they don't want to, or could be other reasons, and you know, uh but you know, again, I think one some usually one person is quietly taking over, and that happened to be to be me.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: And it wasn't, you know, again, something that I raised my hand to do, but suddenly it was me kind of leading the the text, kind of coordinating, trying to find a hotel for my dad, and kind of divvying, trying to divvy up duties and explaining everything to my dad as as much as I I could and update everyone as we were going.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: And in that, I was still, you know, managing my work, managing my kids, and trying to remember to kind of take care of myself as well in all of this.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: So it it it's a lot.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's and we were still going back and forth.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: We weren't staying in the city, so we're driving back and forth, which is easily, you know, you know, an hour and a half each way, three hours, depending on what traffic is.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, that in and of itself is pretty exhausting.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, I feel like and then there's the unknowns too, right?
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like, okay, I mean, we knew we were going into two surgeries, but you get the hotel for dad.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well, how long do you get the hotel for?
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and you know, he agreed.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's the other thing.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: He agreed to, you know, okay, I'll do X amount of days, you know, and you know, baby steps with him a lot of the time, right?
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, we'll do we'll do this.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: And and luckily we were a little this time we were a little familiar with everything because we had done this, you know, the the summer before when my mom had the emergency stay.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: So, but when we went to book the the hotel there, which there is a hotel associated with this this hospital, they didn't have all the days that we needed.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: So then it was okay, how do we do that?
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: Now we're gonna have to get two hotels and he's gonna have to move his things and he's gotta pack his clothes.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I think he did.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think it ended up being he had to do it that time.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, that was and I I do think, Mary, you ended up doing both hotels.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think booking them.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: I can't remember.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: I did uh yeah, I think dad actually booked the one, and I think I booked the other one.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: But it was a little bit, you know, it was a a little bit more than what we wanted to be doing at that point in time.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: We wanted to be just focusing on mom.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's, you know, the even like somebody has to eat, dad has to eat, you know, transportation, all those things that come into it.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the one thing I thought about, Mary, is like, you know, sort of we're all adults, so you know, you can't really assign tasks to your siblings.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: So didn't I should say assign, didn't I?
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: I was thinking to myself, like, I I think that was part of the problem, right?
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: It was like, who wants to do this?
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, what do you do when nobody raises your hand, their hand, right?
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like, okay, who's gonna do this?
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, silence.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: Silence on the text, right?
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and then you're like, okay, you know, that little prompt.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it's not like you can be like, okay, so-and-so you can do this because they're working.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: We don't know what their schedule is like, right?
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I think, you know, that was one of the uh conundrums.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, and and you know, and we did at one point or two points have to get on the phone all together, but a lot of times, again, just because our schedules were all different, it's even hard to coordinating a phone call.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: So text was the easy easiest.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: And and I again, I think there's families that everyone has a different family and logistics are different.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I think when somebody doesn't respond or somebody doesn't always raise their hand, I think, you know, I think it's normal and I think it's natural to start having maybe a little resentment.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: Why, why do I have to, you know, miss my kids, whatever?
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: Why do I have to miss work?
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: Or why, why the hell do I have to take another, you know, two hours, four hours in the car for a day?
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's a lot.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: So that resentment, and it's not, you know, it's a normal feeling, but and it's not necessarily something you want to feel, but it's it's there because it's all it's a lot.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there's a little resentment that sometimes comes up, maybe a little, I don't know, what else do you did you did you feel in this time?
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I and I don't think we're pointing any fingers here.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: We were all we were lucky, we have is, you know, because you you make assumptions like, oh, okay, they think somebody might think you might think their work is more important than your work, right?
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: Or their kids are more important than your kids.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it's those assumptions that I think lead to resentment.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: But I think one of the things I really felt, Mary, was just a level of sort of disappointment, right?
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: That I mean, mom was someone who really tried to show up for everyone.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: She was right.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, she that she was just that personality that you know, she had she had brothers, she didn't have any sisters, so she was kind of the maternal figure for them.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, I always remember her showing up for them and like trying to smooth over things, you know, but she showed up, yeah, calling so many people, like holidays, cards, all that.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there was just that level of disappointment where I was like, where is everyone for her in this, you know, really difficult moment?
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: And dad too.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, dad really like he is the type of person, they're both really family people.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's you know, I remember dad making decisions about work because you know, he didn't want to go to the next step or or travel because he wanted to be there for his family, right?
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and I know you know, mom started out as a teacher and stopped teaching because she wanted to stay home with the family.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I had this like just this sense of really like disappointment and a little sadness around that.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, here she is in the hospital.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: And again, I know she didn't want to like let everybody know what was going on.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: So, but I I guess that was the feeling that I had is just a little disappointment and a little sadness, and you know, try to remain positive for both of them.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: I absolutely and I think again, this is one of those call-outs for if you know somebody going through through something like this, you know, just a a text message or a phone call saying, you know, how is or is there anything I can do?
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: And most of the time the person is gonna say no, they might say yes, but you know, it just is so nice to have, you know, a little support or know that somebody cares, right?
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think, and I'm not saying no one reached out for for mom, but it was it was fairly quiet.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: It was fairly quiet on, you know, a few sides.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I don't, and I can't say what sh she felt or what my dad felt.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I think they were pretty much concentrating on, you know, just making it through this.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: But for for me, yeah, I I felt why isn't anybody showing up for you know, my mom.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: My mom is, you know, again, like Susan said, she's always been the first to kind of help others, you know, reach out, send that card, be willing to to pitch in to do something.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I I just felt like, you know, why, why?
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I and again, the same thing with, you know, if if people aren't stepping up in in your circle, why?
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: Why aren't you mom did everything, you know, in my perspective again?
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: This is my perspective, right?
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: We all have different perspectives.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: But why aren't you showing up?
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, mom needs you now.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: She was there for for you and for for, but why aren't you showing up now?
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a really tough feeling to to deal with because you got multiple emotions going on, right?
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think, you know, again, Mary, I think when we we talk about doing the tasks, the tasks are you know time consuming and exhausting.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: But when you layer on those emotions, that you know takes it to a different level.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I think makes it, you know, you're sad for your, we're sad for mom, we're sad for dad, those things, but then all these other emotions that come with it.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I think to myself, you know, in terms of showing up, right?
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: Just show up, you know, like I understand, you know, you and I are used to hospitals, right?
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we we've slept in hospitals, we've been in hospitals, we've, you know, yeah, we've, you know, probably I read books to my kids in the hospital, you know, because I I couldn't leave and they would come visit me.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the bedtime stories, right?
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: But and it's not fun to sleep in a hospital.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: I can just, especially in those days when your buzzer used to your beeper.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: Your beeper went off, right?
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh my god, no.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I understand that, you know, there are people who aren't comfortable in hospitals.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I want to acknowledge that, but I think again, just showing up could make a big difference.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: Or, or even like I think flowers or cards or whatever, but you know, that was for me one of the bigger challenges is just that little bit of like that pit in my stomach of okay, we're here, you know, and and sh our sister-in-law was there a lot too, you know.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, here's our our sister-in-law, yeah.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, uh she has the youngest kids, you know, so I think I was just like, hmm, this is you know, this is just really interesting.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, a lot of struggling there.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I think to myself, was there a way to do this differently?
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, could we have planned for this, you know?
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, there were some funny things along the way, right?
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that I laugh, kind of laugh at now.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like hospitals aren't easy.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, they're not.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's just the you know, we'll kind of get into that, but um, hospitals are not easy.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember I wasn't again, I wasn't there for the actual surgery.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: I came either the day, the next day, but Susan, and I think my sister-in-law was there as well with my dad sitting.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: My mom went into surgery.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: And again, for anyone that's on the other side sitting, waiting while somebody their loved one is in surgery, it's not a not an easy place to to be.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: But I remember hearing the story of your your breakfast and your breakfast conversations.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: It it was okay, Dad, you have to eat something, right?
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like we got down here really early, and you know, I remember saying, okay, to maybe with one of the nurses, okay, where should where should we go for breakfast, right?
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: And she said, Oh, you you know, you have to go to the cafeteria.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: The omelet Nazi is down there.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I'm not saying Nazi, so I'm like, that's not politically correct, but this is coming right from the nurse.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: This is right from the nurse.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: Omelette Nazi is down there, you're gonna love it.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: He makes great, get great omelets.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I'm like, Dad, let's go down and and have an omelet.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we got down there, and I think that was one of the most confusing moments for me, Mary.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like, she wasn't kidding.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, everybody in the hospital was down there getting an omelet, and there was no like rhyme or reason.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm thinking to myself, oh my gosh, my poor dad.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what if he was down here himself?
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was struggling, and people were like, Are you gonna order?
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Do I order here?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so even that felt like, oh my gosh, this is so difficult, even for me.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then the funny thing was, so the omelets were great, they were great.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: And then once we figured it all out, but man, those things were flying, there's stuff going all over the place, and then then it came time for lunch, right?
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm like, okay, well, breakfast was great, so let's let's go down and get lunch.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I think mom was out at that point, so we we had gotten the news that she did pretty well.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, dad, we can go down.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: And my dad is one of those people who he is, you know, clockwork, breakfast, lunch, dinner.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like he's clockwork, so you know you have to go get it, right?
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, okay, let's go get lunch.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: So we get down to lunch, and there's nothing.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, there is literally, I'm not getting money.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: Mary, there's nothing, nothing to eat.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, okay, this is the most bizarre thing.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: So now what are we gonna do?
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: He is not gonna leave the hospital.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: I know he's not gonna leave the hospital, so where am I going to get food?
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: And mind you, we're in the middle of you know, one of the largest cities, and I'm thinking to myself, how am I gonna get him food?
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, again, not easy.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like I would go get almost anything.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: So you know, even food could be.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and a hospital food is a challenge.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh absolutely.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I think what we learned was everybody from that hospital goes to the other hospital, and there's a lot of food trucks outside.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: There is a lot of food.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there is a lot of food truck.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that was that was overwhelming for me.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: I gotta tell you, it was so overwhelming amidst everything else.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, it is difficult to be in a hospital setting, even for those of us that are used to it.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: And like I said, yeah, uh lucky that both of you kind of were down there to give give support.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: And again, I think back to the you know, the sibling dynamics in different families is going to be different.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, going in, you have to know, you know, who's doing what.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: And you really have to, again, it's all about, and we've said this before on different things, you have to have the hard conversations and kind of work it out and talk it out and not let that resentment build up or that, you know, disappointment and maybe someone else build up because it's that that physical load is hard, the the logistics going back and forth, but the mental load I think makes takes it at a bigger l level.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, everyone's different as individuals.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: We're different.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: Some people can show up emotionally, some can show up physically, some financially, some like to, you know, more or less organize things.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: Some people avoid hospitals, they can't be in, don't want to be in hospitals or I don't know, have a fear of hospitals, so they might want to show up differently.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then you do have some people that maybe just freeze and shut down, shut down.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, sometimes that looks like maybe they're they're ignoring or they're, I don't know, not showing up, but maybe, you know, you have to kind of also try and see their maybe a different perspective on them.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: And and sometimes some people convince themselves that someone else can handle it, they they can do it.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: And it doesn't make any of that any better, but you know, I think you have to kind of you can't let that resentment and that disappointment, you really have to kind of like anything, kind of talk it out and work on the the the plan together.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't, again, resentment's gonna might happen.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: The disappointment might happen and it's going to because it's it's you're exhausted and you're rearranging your in entire life.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's hard not to notice who isn't rearranging their their life.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's hard not to think, why am I doing all this?
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: So they're all all normal thoughts.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: So is there anything that you wish that you maybe had done differently, Susan?
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think on this one we kind of knew what we were going into, right?
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I think we had the hard conversations and we did kind of have a plan on this one.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think it makes it any easier, but you know, again, we did have the plan.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was just this time.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: It was kind of dealing with those emotions that came up, which I think.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, we had like the full plan.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think we were again some of this happened very quickly.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: If you remember, it was just, you know, it was because her cancer was progressing so rapidly at that point, things really were moving fast.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: And even that vascular surge we we didn't expect.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: So some of this was like, again, you might not have time for that conversation, but I think having that conversation as much as possible with those people who you you know, you have an expectation.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's the other thing, right?
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: There's that expectation piece of I expect these people to show up, but they might not think that.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's that expectation is sometimes what leads to the resentment and the disappointment, but maybe having that discussion with the people that you expect to show up.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and having some, like you said, very difficult conversations.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I can't be there this day.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think you do have to, yeah.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: You really do have to be willing to have the hard conversation and say, can you do this?
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: I can't do this this time.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: I need, I need you to.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Can you rearrange, you know, your schedule, right?
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: You really have to.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes you you you do have to ask the hard question, and you have to also know your limit, right?
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's important to know, okay, I need I need a break, right?
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: I know what I can do, what I can't do, and I want to do it all, right?
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: You want to be there as I I would have loved to.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: Some people, Mary, you know, maybe it is, you know, maybe it is easier for them to just do it all.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there might be that that situation where, you know what, it's just the easier thing for me to organize everything, exhausting as it is, but you know, it could it could potentially be easier.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's where we talk about like family dynamics.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know your family dynamics.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: They're not going to change in this moment.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's just going to get magnified, right?
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you kind of know what your family dynamics are, and you already kind of know how it's going to go.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: And again, for those, you know, that don't have anybody, you know, you know, you might have to reach out to friends for help.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: You have to know your your limits, and you do have to ask, you know, you might have to ask for help.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, but again, I I would have loved to be there for the surgery, you know, the next day, but my uh, you know, had designated.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: I knew I was gonna be there for the the transfer.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so we kind of had somewhat of a, and yeah, you're absolutely right.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: We had somewhat of a plan, but we didn't have a full plan.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: Part of that was that we we didn't know what was coming, right?
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: And we didn't know how long this the stay was gonna actually be.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: So we we didn't a hundred percent have a plan.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I think we could have d maybe drilled it down a little bit better than than what we had.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: Or played out the you know, what ifs.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, you know, what if we're in here longer than we anticipate, because again, I think that is the reality.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we learned that maybe the hard way, which we will talk about, but I think we did learn that the hard way is that you know, sometimes things go differently than you you plan.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: That first surgery actually went very, very well.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: I did.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: We, you know, and I think overall, you know, you know, people were there.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think you know, at least three of us showed up and she did really well.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: She came out really well.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: It you know, it was a good surgery.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: Everything went how they expected.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: There was no surprises.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I think we kind of, you know, we knew we had our another surgery coming up, but we maybe celebrated for I think we celebrated a little.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh, we we did this, yeah.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think and I think it's okay to celebrate.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like when I think about it, I'm like, all right, you know, it was it was good that we celebrated a little.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not saying we went out and celebrated.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, we didn't do any like we didn't do any partying.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: We would have been like a cup of coffee, yeah, or treated myself to Starbucks, you know, or something like that.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think maybe I did that.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: There was a Starbucks right there.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and I think I was like, woo-hoo, let's go get a Starbucks to uh celebrate.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: But again, it was, I mean, she's it was 85 five coming through a major bypass surgery.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: So there was a little bit of a relief on that first surgery.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: It went as as it did, and she made it through.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, now it was okay.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: What's you know, again, the celebration was brief because it wasn't we knew we knew what was another the next major surgery was was coming up.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I can't I I think we had planned three days, I I think three days in this hospital was the I can't remember if it was three days, but I think it was three days.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I had come down for the transfer.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, maybe I come came down that night.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: I I can't remember.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: Now a little bit of it is a blur, but anyways, I can't know I was down there for the transfer, and it was a day that was and and again I was the designated transfer person.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I I was down there and and she was a little antsy because we uh honestly didn't know uh exactly how the transfer was gonna go and what time, yeah.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: And honestly, you know, it was just right across the street.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: So didn't really understand fully.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, usually as again, as a physician, you're loading into a hospital, going a distance to a hospital, but it was the same kind of thing.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: So we had to get an ad, you know, they had to get transportation and she had to get dressed, and so it wasn't an easy, you know, she it definitely wasn't easy.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't and you know, get it wasn't easy for anyone.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember it was actually even a little challenging for I think the fellow who at one point was like, I'm just gonna put her in a wheelchair.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I don't remember that.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think that poor fellow, they were like, Oh my god, that's right.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: I forgot about that.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, most of you will know this, but it's somebody who goes on after their residency and does more training training.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: And uh he was like, This is why is this so difficult?
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna put her in a wheelchair and then you know the nurses were like, You can't do that.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we had been waiting and waiting, and it was getting close to, I don't know, probably five o'clock, four or five o'clock.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, Okay, we just gotta get her across the street.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: She's gotta be She was doing surgery the next morning.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, the next morning.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: She's gotta get in there, get into her room so she's ready for surgery in the morning.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: And he, I think he even had the wheelchair up there for her, and he's like, I'm just gonna wheel her right across the street.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: And they were like, No, you can't do that.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: So finally they we we did get her into the transportation and got her across the street.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: Got her across the street, and you know, thinking that she's gonna go right up in, and again, this is another one of those miss medical mysteries to me.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you I love the way you put that, Mary.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: Medical mysteries, like, why can't you get somebody across the street?
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, why does it take a whole day to get across the street?
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the next medical mystery, right?
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: So go go across the street.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: She's got to go in through the emergency emergency room.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: So we we roll in in her wheelchair and into the emergency department, we have to register at the desk into the the and again, the emergency room is is completely so we're sitting in the hallway and and like you know, what is there a room?
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: There's supposed to be a room.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: What's going on?
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: No one has a clue.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and that's where the medical mystery comes in.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: How do you not know that somebody is coming over for a room?
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: But anyways, uh, you know, we've we've reached the next step here.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: She's, you know, uh up in the into the the emergency room, and we finally get her into the waiting room up into her room, and here we go.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: We're waiting for what's gonna come next.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think it was at all what uh any of us were expecting at this point.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the next episode.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say, you know, I don't think, you know, the script surgery schedule, you know, I don't think anybody prepares you for any of this, even as a physician, right?
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't I think as a family, you really have to kind of work work together.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: If you're the only one who knows the medication list, the surgery schedule, which doctor to call, which what insurance is is going to handle all this, where everyone is supposed to be tomorrow, we see you.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: If you're alone in all this, we see you.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: If you're working through those sibling dynamics right now, we we we see you and know that the the work is really invisible, right?
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: No one really this is not something you put on a resume, you know, it's an incredible amount of work.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: You don't get rewarded for it.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: No, no one no one applauds it, you know, no one's gonna say good job, but families.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: Good job.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: We are saying good job, good job.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um hang in there, you're doing what you can and that you're doing the best you can.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: But families survive because uh either one or several carry it.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: And we hope that today reminds you that even if it feels lonely at times, or if you're carrying that invisible weight, or you made it through that first surgery or that first chemo, or whatever it is, exhale for a few minutes, you know, celebrate those small wins.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: Even if they're small, it's important to celebrate and just keep, you know, keep your strength and take the time to yourself and ask, ask for the help when when you need it.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: Don't let that resentment build up, the disappointment build up between siblings, because you're you're you're a family.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, ask for the help.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, you don't want to say use each other, but your family, ask for help when you need it.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: Ask your friends if you're you're you don't have siblings, ask your friends.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone always appreciates, never had anyone say no.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and for those of of you who know of someone going through something, reach out, text them, say hello, how's it going?
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um and if you have the ability, ask them if they they need help.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for spending this time with us.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: If this episode, and we hope this episode made you feel a little less alone, share it with someone who's living their own sandwich.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: And until next time, remember, you're doing better than you think, and you don't have to eat this sandwich.