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Fantastic Beast: Secrets of Dumbledore Film Review · Mythmakers

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  Welcome to MythMakers.
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  MythMakers is the podcast for fantasy fans and fantasy creatives brought to you by the
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  Oxford Centre for Fantasy.
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  My name is Julia Golding and I am an author but also I am the director of the Centre.
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  Now in today's episode I thought I would take on the most recent of the
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  Wizarding World films as a review but also take an opportunity to dip into the
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  world of Harry Potter and the writings of JK Rowling because even though we are
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  the Oxford Centre for Fantasy and these aren't strictly speaking and to do
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  with Oxford other than providing a few locations at one time it's such a
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  large part of the fantasy scene and the reason why many people go on to read
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  fantasy as they grow older that I thought it'd be worth dipping into it and
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  having a look at the whole Harry Potter phenomenon but let's start with a
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  review of the most recent film. This is the third in the Fantastic Beasts and
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  where to find them series called The Secrets of Dumbledore and it comes
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  after two other instruments. The very first one is called Fantastic Beasts and
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  where to find them. The second one is the Crimes of Grindelwald and now this
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  one. Now I think it's fair to say that these films are not loved as much as the
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  Harry Potter films so I'm going to first of all talk about this film on its own
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  merits and how it fits in this series and then compare it to what's going on when
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  you compare it to the Harry Potter sequence. Now I would say that if you haven't
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  yet gone see the film that this particular instalment the third is not bad for
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  one thing the plot is more coherent. The second film The Crimes of Grindelwald I
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  think struggled under the weight of so many different storylines coming in it
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  really got quite knotted and was hard to follow and lost a lot of its charm as a
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  result. This one does have a storyline particularly in the second half of the
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  film where it becomes quite an exciting kind of heist with something they
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  need to achieve and a little bit of a bit like a sort of oceans 11 style thing
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  of how they're going to achieve it but set in a wizarding world so I
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  appreciated that but I think one of them for me one of the things about these
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  films which I struggle with is comes down really to the color palette it is
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  all quite dark and the actors are all adults so you're looking at quite a
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  unmagical visual landscape except for the moments when they dip into Hogwarts
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  or they have some wonderful beasts to enjoy. I think the first film in a sense
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  was the most successful of this franchise because their underlying
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  everything else was the plot line of there's this wonderful suitcase that
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  falls open and then beasts are released in New York and that had so much fun
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  in humour and just had lots of great moments. The second one as I've mentioned
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  the strongest part of that for me was the thought of this macabre circus in
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  Paris so there was elements in that work but this one it stays pretty dark it
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  starts in a sort of Berlin and the themes are dark that fits the themes and the
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  most brightest moment comes towards the end when you get this shift to
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  Bhutan the quite sort of you know out of left field moment and when you're
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  watching it I suppose I'm asking myself is this am I watching it because I've
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  watched the Harry Potter films a sense of loyalty or does it stand up on its own
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  right. Some things are worth you know worth the ticket price so I do enjoy
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  sort of knowing more about Dumbledore I think it you know Jude Law as Dumbledore
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  is a great choice he gives it that sort of mischief and gravitas he's very
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  watchable and of course the the film hangs on him really and the new
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  Gellert Grindelwald mad Smith Wilson I think is better than Johnny Depp's he looks
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  as though he's someone that Professor Dumbledore might well have had a younger
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  man's and fling with and he has a sort of wonderful aesthetic face I don't
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  know the cheekbones maybe but in demeanor he does seem convincingly as though
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  he's a man with a mission that has turned evil so yeah that works for me.
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  Eddie Redmayne is cute but underused I think in these films he has sort of one
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  sort of note that he strikes which is that awkwardness bit of a shuffle this
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  is a guy of an Oscar you think you know maybe there's more that could be done
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  with him and the other supporting cast well the favorite character I think for
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  many people is Dan Fogler's Jacob Gowalski the the muggle amongst the the
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  wizards and I think he's great fun they clear up the credence figure the
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  Ezra Miller character I'm aware there've been issues about some cast members
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  you know obviously Johnny Depp has stepped out and Ezra Miller has had his
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  brushes with the law recently so there probably was a external pressure to
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  clear up that character but if you want to find out what happens to that
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  character storyline it does sort itself out which is quite a relief because
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  that was part of the what was getting very tangled in the second film and also
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  I think we're very surprising sort of new relationship which I really enjoyed is
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  seeing more of the theses the brother to Newt Calum Turner that was some of
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  the funniest moments in fact come with the two brothers together so again there
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  are positive things in this film and I did enjoy it I did sit in the cinema
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  enjoying it but there is a bout here what is it that is less attractive about
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  the fantastic base to the Harry Potter films and I'm obviously going to be
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  looking at this from a script writing point of view I had Marj K Rowling's
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  plotting immensely she's very good at working out long overarching plots and I
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  feel that this is happening in these films but not as successfully as it did
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  in the Harry Potter one of the problems of course is that we already know the
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  end right at the beginning of Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone when
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  they're having the the cards in the chocolate frogs we know that it's going to
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  come to a battle with Dumbledore defeating Grindelwald so we know that's where
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  we're going there's you know the plot spoiler happened many years ago so that
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  removes some of the jeopardy but there are ways around that because you can
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  sort of forget that whilst you're watching I think it comes down to the fact
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  that it has lost some of the charm which having a younger person growing up and
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  coming into the world provides almost all the characters except for Jacob are
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  already part of the Wizarding world so for them magic is normal I think the
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  magic of Harry Potter is discovering that actually outside the boring world of
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  Suburbia the Dirty World you can then enter into this fantastic world and it's
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  that journey that Harry goes on and we go with him that's not available so you're
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  supposed to be already sold on the idea of Wizards when you reach
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  Fantastic Beasts which of course most of the audience is but it loses that
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  feeling of gosh how marvelous how spectacular which is really at the heart of
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  the charm of the Harry Potter series and of course there is the vulnerable
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  character Harry himself there isn't the same character with the same
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  vulnerabilities in the Fantastic Beasts that you do get people who are
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  exposed and and abused in some ways that's certainly the case with the
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  Ezra Miller character but they're not the beating heart and I think for me
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  this is why I would turn back to Harry Potter to enjoy in the way that I
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  don't rewatch the Fantastic Beasts films and the locations don't work as
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  well either so with Hogwarts you get in some ways when you think of the you
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  know the economics of the Wizarding World which my family and I have
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  discussed a great length during the 2000s you know when these books were
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  coming out I had small children and that's we were enjoying them step by step it
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  was hugely exciting but we did sort of wonder about how the economy works
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  because the way wizards plug into the real world didn't feel quite right
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  somehow but anyway it's fantasy let's not worry too much about that you sort
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  of forgave it the fact that the most strategic place in the world was this
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  school in Scotland that didn't matter it we all agreed because we all love
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  tugworts that's fine in this one this the stakes are bigger it feels more like a
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  Nazi takeover of the world so the scale is appropriate but somehow in
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  Fantastic Beasts we lose our connection because we're not sure what's the
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  stake it's not the teachers we know who are having to man the walls or the pupils
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  manning up to go and you know protect the bridge like Neville does in the the
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  last instalment so it it becomes a drift in a sense a drift so I think in terms
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  of problems for keeping an audience I'm not sure who they're appealing to I
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  wonder if we started with Fantastic Beasts if I as a parent would feel oh yeah
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  here you are kids here's a really exciting wizarding story I think I
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  probably wouldn't and then if it wasn't meant for kids but for older people
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  the sort of YA audience upwards then is it really is it touching on the themes
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  that fill adult I don't know I have a sort of I don't look forward to these films
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  in the way I really remember looking forward to the Harry Potter films I think
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  there was the aspect in the Harry Potter films of wanting to see the children
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  growing up and flourish whereas this I don't know who I'm who I'm backing yeah
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  I'm less secure as someone watching it so what are the lessons in terms of
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  script writing well I think one of the things that come out for me is character is
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  king when you've got a long-running series and in this series so far
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  we've shifted characters three times so the first film we focused on Newt who I
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  enjoyed and I like Newt a lot I could have spent more time with Newt you know
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  the second film it kind of shifted lots of people were there possibly credence became a sort of
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  breakout character but you know you just didn't feel very and then you've got the Queenie and
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  Jacob romance it all felt a bit oh who am I following and then in the third film the title gives
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  it away you were following Dumbledore which kind of works but Dumbledore is attentive his he knows
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  what he's doing and he's keeping information back from other people which makes him it's not
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  quite the right stance for somebody that you're wanting to follow go back to the Harry Potter films
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  we're very clear who we're following we are seeing Harry stumble his way to a solution
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  taking terrible choices and he has two really close defined friends plus a circle of people who stick
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  with him these these ingredients I think really make a series hang together so when you're thinking
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  of writing a script if you're interested in being a fantasy writer I think that comparing the two
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  franchises is actually a really interesting way to work out what you like and what what is successful
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  I think really to be honest I think the fantastic beasts movies are succeeding because they have a
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  really strong cast and they've come on the back of a very successful first installment in the
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  Harry Potter's and you know the special effects and everything are all great but I don't think
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  they have within them a successful formula I would love to have seen the books first as well actually
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  I know that JK Rowling's gone straight to writing the films without doing the books I think I'd
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  really enjoy the books if there were was such a thing with all the fullness of that the world
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  explained I think it's one of these these times when actually having a book series to rest on would
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  have helped these films and would have made the the picking their way through whose whose whose story
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  is this would have been easier because the writing a novel on this would have forced that realization
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  into the writing process so let's go back to the whole phenomenon of Harry Potter
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  I think that it was one of the wonders of my sort of parenting life is to have such an exciting
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  book series coming out when my own children were growing up and reading there was a stage when
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  at bedtime you couldn't go upstairs without hearing Stephen Fry churning his way through you know
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  all the various parts of Harry Potter and he had so many lovely outcome you've got the novels and
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  then you had the delayed gratification of waiting for the films it all came at a perfect moment
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  and then the fun of going to the midnight openings it was books as rock stars and obviously JK Rowling
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  has fallen into this controversial area at the moment which I'm not going to touch with a
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  but I'm really grateful for the fact that that happened it was a combination of her
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  imagination and the way the book sellers handled it and Bloomsbury the publisher it all had
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  such a brilliant effect on readers for myself as a writer starting out in the early 2000s
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  that phenomenon of the money frankly that she was bringing into the book trade really helped
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  people who started their writing careers in childrens like I did there was an unrealistic
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  expectation of everybody wanting the next Harry Potter which of course you don't have more than one
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  Beatles you don't get more than one Harry Potter but still it did help sort of give serious
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  attention to that area which I think probably is faded now but it was very live in the 2000s
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  what are the strengths of the of those books turning into films well I personally feel that
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  the plotting of book three is the best of all of them the I'm thinking about them as novels now
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  and I think that also works out as a very good film the books get more and more
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  less regulating they get bigger and bigger and in a sense a bit flabier if you're invested in
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  the world you don't mind how long you spend in it of course but there was an element in the last
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  book well the last two books which I found editorially less successful there's a lot of camping
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  in the definitely Hallows and the half-blood prince has a lot of flashbacks so structurally I found
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  those less successful than the earlier ones which I think were pure in the way they delivered their
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  plot so I wasn't going to spend too much time on this podcast thinking about the books because I was
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  really wanting to devote this episode to the films of the films I think the first one is good film
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  but it suffers from the fact that the young actors are just hitting their stride as actors there's
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  a little bit of oh I've got a line to deliver off I go you know there's an element of that there
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  which makes them feel a bit stilted I think by the second one they're all getting much more natural
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  as actors and the second one is of the younger era let's say the Chris Columbus era I think that's
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  the better of the two and it's really sort of the films are hitting their stride by them
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  number three the tonal shift was the change of director I think that's appropriate and it fits
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  the sort of teenage years element and it was a real surprise to turn up in a cinema and think oh
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  you could have the same series but done in such different ways so that that works and of course
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  you've got fantastic performances there from people like David Thulis and others Gary Olman of course
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  so going on of all the films possibly number four is the most enjoyable as a film in my view the
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  reason why is because you've been building for a long time to the idea of the return of Voldemort
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  and it has the structure of the games to keep it sort of like a pattern going so pushing you forward
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  but the way they do the return of Voldemort which is taken from the books is you isolate your main
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  character they do this again in the last film in the final confrontation when he walks out on his own
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  and that image of the hero on his own facing the bad people is so powerful and so moving
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  and the performances Daniel Radcliffe really does brilliant in that scene it's a terribly difficult
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  sequence to to convey but he really does show grit conviction and a sense of love and power I mean
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  it's just really well judged from him and he was obviously quite young when he did that
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  and you've got ray finds being just you know who else could they have cast you know answers on a
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  postcard I couldn't think of anyone else who could do that many better so I think of the films
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  number four is probably the peak of the Harry Potter films though all of them I think have
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  very enjoyable moments and they don't forget fun even the dark ones still and I think that comes
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  from the friendship even though they get darker and darker there is the sort of rewards of having
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  invested so much in characters so I'm never long bottom becoming the action hero in the last
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  one it's definitely a cheer moment and you can only get that because you've set it up such a long
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  time in advance way back in you know film four when he was giving the the gilly weed to help Harry
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  the the trial with the mermaid egg anyway so I think those films manage to sustain a story by
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  a having a memory you know remembering what it's like to appreciate magic and the
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  wonderfulness of magic rather than having it as you know taken for granted part of the world
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  and also having its band of brothers and sisters it's a little cast which carried it
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  which is sort of muffed a bit well muffed quite a lot in the fantastic beasts do so going back to
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  where I started do I think fantastic beasts will succeed in bringing this all together in the final
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  parts of these films if they go on to make them I suppose that will depend on box office
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  what I would like to see or what it's worth and I would like to see battling down on central
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  characters so okay Jacob succeeds he's a good character new it's a good character thesis is a good
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  character dumbledore's a good character it's a shame that the women aren't there's not a really
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  standout woman I did enjoy Euler Lee Hicks I thought she was good but how she interacts
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  with everybody else it was always a bit it doesn't just feel as though the the central
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  group has got a good woman there really which is a shame and because Queenie obviously sort of
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  flitted in and out by playing on the dark side yeah so something's not quite right there anyway I
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  would like to see a central core of characters being focused on rather than trying to do a whole world
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  each each film and remembering that it's called fantastic beasts why not really focus on a creature
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  and a dilemma that involves one of these beasts to to remind us that this is where the magic is
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  supposed to really exist in these films is that in the fantastic beast the kind of thing that they
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  thought of more in the first film so if I was going to give a fantastic beast the secrets of
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  dumbledore's star rating out of five I'd give it a three I not too bad watchable but still not
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  quite hitting the the four and five stars of the Harry Potter films of before I always have in
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  this podcaster wherein all the fantasy worlds is the best place to be something and because I've
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  been talking about fantastic beasts obviously the thing to pick is wherein all the fantasy worlds
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  is the best place to be a fantastic beast now I don't think it's a really good thing to be in the
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  world of the rusting world because if I won't spoil it too much but there's quite a lot of animal
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  abuse going on in the secrets of dumbledore I don't want to spoil that's a bit of a plot twist
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  but something not nice happens to one poor little beast so you know not a good place
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  I actually started my fantasy writing career creating a not dissimilar world of mythical creatures
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  in the companion's quartet this was back in the 2000s long before this series came out which is a
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  setting contemporary age but involves the secret society for the protection of mythical creatures
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  and that is a pretty good place to be a mythical creature because you have companions like
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  human companions who are your friends and they get up to lots of adventures together but I can't
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  possibly choose my own world that would be a bit you know bit too much like naval gazing or whatever
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  so I'm going to think across and I think the most wonderful place to be a fantastic beast
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  must be somewhere like Narnia where you are a talking beast and you have rights and leadership
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  and a wonderful world to move in a world of talking animals so I think that's what I would choose
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  do leave any comments that you have on this question of where is the best place to be a
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  fanatic fantastic beast in our social media or or contact us directly at the Oxford Centre for
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  Fantasy thank you very much for listening we're going to be back having guests so I look forward
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  to putting more of these podcasts together and talking to you as we week by week as we explore
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  fantasy themes thank you very much and goodbye
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