Latest / Head Shrink Inc. / What's the deal with Anger?

Transcript

What's the deal with Anger? · Head Shrink Inc.

0:00
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0:31
SPEAKER_00: KPDQ Portland, a service of Salem Media Group.
0:35
SPEAKER_00: Listen online at TrueTalk800.com.
0:57
SPEAKER_10: Hey, welcome to the Dr.
0:59
SPEAKER_10: David Show.
0:59
SPEAKER_10: I haven't heard that intro yet.
1:01
SPEAKER_10: I've been out of the country for like a rave party in the house.
1:04
SPEAKER_10: I know.
1:05
SPEAKER_10: I like that.
1:06
SPEAKER_10: I can just listen to that the whole hour.
1:07
SPEAKER_10: Let's just be boff around, drink coke, and dance and rave and tea with your pinky up.
1:14
SPEAKER_10: Right.
1:15
SPEAKER_10: So welcome to the Dr.
1:16
SPEAKER_10: David Show.
1:17
SPEAKER_10: Welcome.
1:18
SPEAKER_10: I was going to start naming all these local cities to sound all cool and hip, because all these local cities are listening in, hopefully.
1:27
SPEAKER_10: But I have been um oh, since you asked, Ainsley.
1:33
SPEAKER_10: Hi.
1:33
SPEAKER_10: I should say I'm not here with Dan Bates today.
1:35
SPEAKER_10: Dan is on vacation in Ohio with his family, with his lovely wife, child, and his mother-in-law.
1:43
SPEAKER_02: A wife's child?
1:43
SPEAKER_02: What's a wife, child?
1:44
SPEAKER_10: Wife and child.
1:47
SPEAKER_10: Thank you.
1:47
SPEAKER_10: You fit into the Dan real well.
1:50
SPEAKER_10: And then with I believe his mother-in-law and father-in-law.
1:55
SPEAKER_10: I think that's where he's at.
1:57
SPEAKER_10: So he's enjoying Thanksgiving with them.
1:59
SPEAKER_10: And so I have a bro, another bro here with me.
2:02
SPEAKER_10: Bro in it up.
2:04
SPEAKER_10: A bro therabro.
2:05
SPEAKER_10: Bro Cephas.
2:07
SPEAKER_10: Um Ainsley Silva.
2:09
SPEAKER_10: Welcome, Ainsley.
2:10
SPEAKER_10: Well, hello.
2:10
SPEAKER_10: Thank you.
2:10
SPEAKER_10: Thank you for having me.
2:11
SPEAKER_10: Where's the applause?
2:13
SPEAKER_10: It's uh Clark, where's the applause?
2:15
SPEAKER_10: Is there no nothing?
2:17
SPEAKER_10: Clark Clark is applauding you so I'm there.
2:21
SPEAKER_10: So one thing I like about Ainsley, there's lots of things, but one of the things is his hearty laugh.
2:27
SPEAKER_10: As you have already heard.
2:29
SPEAKER_10: He has a hearty laugh.
2:30
SPEAKER_10: And a lot of there are many times when I'm in an office building.
2:34
SPEAKER_10: Build the whole building.
2:36
SPEAKER_10: I'm de maybe even downstairs.
2:38
SPEAKER_10: And I hear Ainsley's hearty hearty laugh upstairs.
2:42
SPEAKER_10: So that's that is a heartfelt laugh.
2:44
SPEAKER_02: That used to be one of the distinguishing factors of the seminary that I graduated from.
2:50
SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah.
2:50
SPEAKER_02: My laugh.
2:51
SPEAKER_10: Really?
2:51
SPEAKER_02: You could hear it all over the building.
2:53
SPEAKER_10: And it probably echoed.
2:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
2:54
SPEAKER_02: From the first floor to the third.
2:56
SPEAKER_10: And so people would either stay away because they know, oh, Ainsley's here, I don't want to go see him.
3:01
SPEAKER_10: Or they would say, Ainsley's here, I'm going to go.
3:03
SPEAKER_10: They'd totally be drawn to me.
3:04
SPEAKER_10: Was that a that time?
3:06
SPEAKER_10: You can say what the seminary is.
3:08
SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's Western Seminary.
3:09
SPEAKER_02: Oh.
3:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
3:09
SPEAKER_02: Here, here in the Portland metro area.
3:13
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
3:13
SPEAKER_02: Actually, it's like close to downtown, so it was like.
3:15
SPEAKER_10: Isn't that Mount Tabor?
3:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's right below Mount Tabor.
3:18
SPEAKER_02: Um graduated from there with my clinical counseling degree.
3:23
SPEAKER_10: Okay.
3:23
SPEAKER_02: Master's.
3:24
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
3:25
SPEAKER_02: I don't think I'm going to become a doctor though.
3:27
SPEAKER_02: No.
3:27
SPEAKER_02: And you recently uh Because I like master better.
3:30
SPEAKER_10: You recently got um licensed.
3:34
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
3:35
SPEAKER_02: Uh this last year I am a licensed mental health counselor.
3:40
SPEAKER_10: Okay.
3:41
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
3:42
SPEAKER_10: So are are you l are you enjoying it?
3:45
SPEAKER_10: Are you enjoying this in career?
3:47
SPEAKER_02: The extra letters?
3:48
SPEAKER_02: Or no, just the career in general.
3:50
SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah, I love my job.
3:52
SPEAKER_02: I um a lot of my my families and clients will say stuff like, Oh, I couldn't do your job.
4:00
SPEAKER_02: Well, friends and families will say that too.
4:02
SPEAKER_02: Uh couldn't do it, couldn't do it.
4:03
SPEAKER_02: And we're like, well, I I love it.
4:05
SPEAKER_02: I love going to work.
4:06
SPEAKER_02: I love um helping people change.
4:08
SPEAKER_02: I love seeing people um face really hard things and um helping them walk through it and grow.
4:15
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, I mean it's a it's an honor and a privilege to do this work.
4:18
SPEAKER_02: That's good.
4:19
SPEAKER_10: I I I rarely hear people say that, that they love their job.
4:22
SPEAKER_10: Oh man, I look forward to it when I go to work.
4:24
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
4:25
SPEAKER_10: Right.
4:25
SPEAKER_10: Well, enough about you.
4:26
SPEAKER_10: Let's talk about me.
4:27
SPEAKER_10: Back to me.
4:28
SPEAKER_10: Back to me.
4:29
SPEAKER_10: So I have You went to Poland, right?
4:31
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, so I yeah, you haven't been in I don't know if you've really been in the loop with that.
4:35
SPEAKER_10: I mean, you knew I went to Poland to do that.
4:37
SPEAKER_10: I know you were gonna get uh to do an adoption, right.
4:40
SPEAKER_10: I think Dan Dan's been in more in the loop.
4:43
SPEAKER_10: But so I so uh the last several weeks there we've had um pre-recorded shows because you know I've been gone.
4:53
SPEAKER_10: And uh been over in Poland.
4:55
SPEAKER_10: So we went to I went to England initially, then to Poland, and then went to Latvia and drove down to Lithuania, and so uh did the whole did a lot of Eastern European places and um different types of sausage.
5:09
SPEAKER_10: You know, I did eat sausage, a couple sausages.
5:13
SPEAKER_10: Their breakfasts are very different over there.
5:15
SPEAKER_10: What do they eat for breakfast?
5:16
SPEAKER_10: Meat.
5:17
SPEAKER_10: What kind of meat?
5:18
SPEAKER_10: Cold meats.
5:19
SPEAKER_02: Like sausage meat or cold meats and cheese.
5:21
SPEAKER_02: Cold cuts?
5:22
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
5:23
SPEAKER_02: For breakfast.
5:24
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
5:25
SPEAKER_10: With wine?
5:26
SPEAKER_10: No.
5:27
SPEAKER_10: Not that I was aware of.
5:29
SPEAKER_10: I didn't see any wine for breakfast.
5:31
SPEAKER_02: Cheese, some cheese wine?
5:32
SPEAKER_02: No, a cereal plate.
5:34
SPEAKER_10: It's just different.
5:35
SPEAKER_10: And it's it always like I lived in Korea for a year, and so for a lot of times in breakfast in Korea, they would have soup and rice.
5:44
SPEAKER_02: Sounds like it would warm you up.
5:46
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, but that's just not the norm here, right?
5:49
SPEAKER_10: Eggs.
5:49
SPEAKER_10: What eggs or cereal?
5:50
SPEAKER_10: Eggs and potatoes.
5:52
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
5:53
SPEAKER_10: So i I am I am very happy to be back.
5:57
SPEAKER_10: My wife is still over there with my children.
6:01
SPEAKER_10: And the plus one?
6:02
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, Poland has a a unique adopting program where you have to spend a lot of time there to make sure that you want to adopt.
6:11
SPEAKER_10: And um tomorrow ends this what's called an appeal period where anybody that disagreed with the adoption can appeal it.
6:18
SPEAKER_02: And I think that's kind of cool because uh it's like, are you in?
6:22
SPEAKER_10: You know, like I agree, but the appeal period's kind of in my opinion, is kind of dumb because we were we went to court and by the time you get to court, they've sent out letters to all the people that could appeal it, and so n so no one ever has when she's four.
6:40
SPEAKER_10: Right.
6:41
SPEAKER_10: And so then it's just like for us, it's oh great, we're we're in Poland for two more weeks.
6:45
SPEAKER_10: Well, my wife is in Poland for two more weeks, and it's just money that you're spending and and living and or on vacation for two more weeks.
6:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:55
SPEAKER_02: Seeing the sites and the world.
6:57
SPEAKER_02: Have you been to Poland before?
6:58
SPEAKER_02: I am about a quarter Polish.
7:01
SPEAKER_02: So you have.
7:02
SPEAKER_02: And I have not been to Poland.
7:03
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
7:04
SPEAKER_02: So people My family came over from Poland.
7:06
SPEAKER_10: People ask me that.
7:06
SPEAKER_10: They say, Oh, you're on vacation to Poland.
7:09
SPEAKER_10: And I I said, you know, if I was gonna go on vacation anywhere, um, Poland is not my primary choice of vacation spots.
7:20
SPEAKER_10: You would not hang out with the Poles.
7:21
SPEAKER_10: No, no, no, I'm not saying that.
7:23
SPEAKER_10: It's it's Poland was pretty much destroyed.
7:26
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SPEAKER_10: So so almost pretty much all the sites that you're gonna see there are well, no, they're all built back up, but they're not old, like if you go to um England and there's uh churches from the twelfth century or whatever.
9:10
SPEAKER_10: Right.
9:11
SPEAKER_10: So we did go to Auschwitz, which was pretty sobering.
9:14
SPEAKER_10: I can only imagine.
9:15
SPEAKER_10: And it just reminded me of the depravity of man.
9:19
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
9:19
SPEAKER_10: Just like and and while I was in Auschwitz, the funny not I don't know, not funny, not funny.
9:27
SPEAKER_10: I Auschwitz wasn't funny.
9:28
SPEAKER_10: But here in America, people were getting upset over the Starbucks red cup.
9:33
SPEAKER_10: Satan's cup?
9:34
SPEAKER_10: Whatever.
9:35
SPEAKER_10: I don't I don't know whatever it was, but I just I would read, I wouldn't click on it because I I I try not to click on clickbait.
9:43
SPEAKER_10: Self-control.
9:44
SPEAKER_10: Look at you.
9:45
SPEAKER_10: And so I just knew that there was some kind of absurdity over a red cup with Starbucks.
9:52
SPEAKER_02: I can't believe that there is this one Yahoo out there that is able to make enough noise that it turns into this viral It was that it was that uh like pastor guy, right?
10:02
SPEAKER_02: I don't know who it was.
10:03
SPEAKER_02: I I so I I try not to click on um uh clickbait, as you call it.
10:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
10:08
SPEAKER_02: Um I recently uh cut off access to Facebook um so that I'm not spending time that I don't have to spend on it.
10:17
SPEAKER_02: Um but before that happened deep self-control, right there.
10:21
SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, boundaries, barriers, you know.
10:23
SPEAKER_02: Like um before I did that though, like the stuff would come up and I would have to do the same thing.
10:29
SPEAKER_02: And I'd get tempted, you know, I'd see the little like, oh, like we're Christian and and these cups, like we don't care.
10:36
SPEAKER_02: Like, this is our Christian response to the response of the response.
10:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
10:42
SPEAKER_10: Why Christians shouldn't do X.
10:44
SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean th there there's a lot of good ones.
10:47
SPEAKER_02: Um, well, I didn't read 'em, but they they seem to be good, right?
10:49
SPEAKER_02: Like, like, you know, we really don't care.
10:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
10:52
SPEAKER_02: Like you're you're doing your thing as Starbucks, and I personally think red's a very festive color.
11:01
SPEAKER_02: Festive.
11:02
SPEAKER_02: It is, it's festive.
11:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
11:04
SPEAKER_02: So but you know, like uh there's there's a lot of good, like, oh, we really don't care.
11:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
11:08
SPEAKER_02: You know, like you're you're doing your thing.
11:11
SPEAKER_10: So so when I compare the Starbucks Red Cup to what I experienced at Auschwitz, it's it's like just absurd.
11:18
SPEAKER_10: I think go to this place where they killed millions of people for a couple hours, and then let's see if you're gonna complain about a stupid red cup.
11:26
SPEAKER_10: They only killed them for a couple hours?
11:28
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean.
11:29
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean.
11:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, no, I I totally agree with you because it's I don't know.
11:34
SPEAKER_02: I think America I'm this is a a blanket statement.
11:37
SPEAKER_02: Um try to be careful, but like we have a really hard time with being offended.
11:43
SPEAKER_10: Um I was thinking, and and again, let me so this is a call-in show where we where two therapists are here and we are here to answer any I mean, I tell people I can answer any question you have on relationships, and and I will give you the right answer.
11:57
SPEAKER_02: Or your money back.
11:58
SPEAKER_10: Yes.
11:59
SPEAKER_10: Oh your money back.
12:01
SPEAKER_10: And so our number here is write this down.
12:04
SPEAKER_10: Oh, get your pen, get your pencil, get out your phone and type it down.
12:10
SPEAKER_10: Uh it's eight hundred eight four two one six two.
12:15
SPEAKER_10: Wow, you said that like really professional.
12:18
SPEAKER_10: 800-845-2162.
12:20
SPEAKER_10: So while you're debating whether you should call in, um let's continue this conversation.
12:27
SPEAKER_10: So uh I totally forgot what I'm saying.
12:30
SPEAKER_02: Silvering and we're comparing Auschwitz with the Red Cup.
12:34
SPEAKER_10: This is killing me.
12:34
SPEAKER_10: I totally forgot what I was gonna say.
12:36
SPEAKER_02: Auschwitz and Red Cup.
12:37
SPEAKER_10: No, I remember that part.
12:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
12:38
SPEAKER_10: Um But it it it yeah, so they have just it it's amazing the things that went on there and that people allowed to happen.
12:49
SPEAKER_10: Right.
12:50
SPEAKER_10: But it's but I can see why they allowed it, because if you went against what the Nazi Party did, they just shoot you in the street.
12:57
SPEAKER_10: Right?
12:57
SPEAKER_10: And so then it would be so then oh you take you do that to the Jews, but don't do it to me as long as you're doing it to someone else, right?
13:04
SPEAKER_02: Well, uh yeah, that's and that's that's uh brainwashing, abuse, power, like all of the manipulation, propaganda, and control um played out to from what I could tell, you know, I wasn't there, but um to the full extent, you know, like do do this or else we are literally going to kill you.
13:22
SPEAKER_10: Right.
13:23
SPEAKER_10: Well, yeah.
13:24
SPEAKER_10: So and and that it's uh and we took our uh took our whole family and so the little kids they don't really they're just tired of walking around.
13:31
SPEAKER_10: They don't really have any imagine.
13:33
SPEAKER_10: So okay, so I Clark, do we is that a call?
13:38
SPEAKER_10: Oh, we have a call.
13:39
SPEAKER_10: Oh should we answer it?
13:41
SPEAKER_10: Uh well the computer's out going, it's not here, so I I'm gonna trust that if I press this button, it's gonna come on.
13:50
SPEAKER_10: Hello, you are live with David and Angela.
13:54
SPEAKER_04: How are you today?
13:55
SPEAKER_10: I'm doing great.
13:56
SPEAKER_10: What can I help you with?
13:57
SPEAKER_04: Great.
13:58
SPEAKER_04: So I just heard that you you mentioned that you're answering a relationship question.
14:03
SPEAKER_10: Yes, I am.
14:04
SPEAKER_04: So we have a tricky one.
14:07
SPEAKER_04: Rather difficult, actually.
14:08
SPEAKER_10: Okay.
14:09
SPEAKER_04: Um we have three kids and teacher here to get to come here.
14:15
SPEAKER_04: And she is recovering from heroin addiction.
14:33
SPEAKER_04: At the same time, we don't want her to actually ever parent these children again.
14:39
SPEAKER_10: Okay.
14:40
SPEAKER_10: Um, so the the the kids are currently in foster care or they're with you?
14:45
SPEAKER_04: No, they're in foster care.
14:47
SPEAKER_10: Okay.
14:47
SPEAKER_10: Do you have interaction with the the foster care parents?
14:50
unknown: Yes.
14:50
SPEAKER_10: Okay.
14:51
SPEAKER_10: So I'm I'm fairly Ansley and I are kind of familiar with the the foster care system in the Washington state area.
14:58
SPEAKER_10: I'm not sure.
14:59
SPEAKER_02: I was two years in Portland.
15:00
SPEAKER_10: Oh, were you?
15:01
SPEAKER_10: Okay, so I would imagine in Oregon.
15:03
SPEAKER_10: Um, so what is your goal to um bring those kids into your home?
15:11
SPEAKER_04: Yes, we actually have a court-ordered interstate compact with a with the state they're in to bring them to us here eventually if the parents don't comply to to reunify their family.
15:25
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
15:26
SPEAKER_02: So I g I guess go ahead.
15:28
SPEAKER_02: Can I can I make sure I understand your question before David starts talking?
15:33
SPEAKER_02: Um so you want you're you're asking, like, how do we keep the kids safe and away from mom because she's an addict?
15:42
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, at the same time, you don't really want the parents to fail, but you also don't really trust from their This is Danielle Fischel.
15:49
SPEAKER_07: And Ryder Strong from PodMeets World.
15:51
SPEAKER_07: When you have five and seven-year-old boys, I can promise you they love superheroes.
15:55
SPEAKER_07: Oh, it never goes away.
15:56
SPEAKER_07: Indy is 11 years old, and he's obsessed with comics, cartoons, video games, all of it.
16:01
SPEAKER_07: Adler and Keaton both have Spider-Man costumes, and if anything says Marvel on it, they are in.
16:07
SPEAKER_07: Same.
16:07
SPEAKER_07: Which is why we love Lingo Kids.
16:09
SPEAKER_07: They have Marvel Spider-Man activities that are totally age-appropriate.
16:12
SPEAKER_07: And safe, made just for the little ones.
16:15
SPEAKER_07: Plus Disney's Moana, Frozen's Utopia, all the characters your kids already love, and a few you're secretly hoping they'll get into.
16:22
SPEAKER_08: I just load up the iPads with Lingo Kids before a trip, and with over 4,000 interactive activities, songs, and shows, it keeps their attention for hours.
16:31
SPEAKER_07: Download Lingo Kids for free or go all in with Lingo Kids Plus for even more incredible content.
16:36
SPEAKER_08: Choose the yearly plan and save up to 60%.
16:39
SPEAKER_08: Search Lingo Kids in the App Store or Google Play.
16:41
SPEAKER_07: Lingo Kids, everything kids love.
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SPEAKER_06: Hanging out at the pool is great.
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SPEAKER_06: Relaxing and playing Vegas style games on my phone at the same time.
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17:15
SPEAKER_04: History that the kids would be safe if they were returned to them.
17:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um, so I wouldn't I would start off by asking, what are what are the current court orders in place?
17:25
SPEAKER_02: Um, like what's what's currently mandated by uh CPS as far as visitation with mom?
17:32
SPEAKER_04: Well they do see her and she has to comply with um you know drug testing and be on plan to work towards, you know, becoming a stable person, like you know, finishing um the rehabilitation process and continuing with drug testing and getting a job and all kinds of a long list of things, getting housing.
17:56
unknown: Sure.
17:58
SPEAKER_10: She has a lot of hoops to jump through.
18:00
SPEAKER_10: A lot of things she has to accomplish.
18:02
unknown: Yeah.
18:02
SPEAKER_10: So in in situations like this, I I really I'm just gonna call you grandma.
18:06
SPEAKER_10: Okay.
18:07
SPEAKER_10: Is that okay?
18:08
SPEAKER_09: I'm grandma.
18:08
SPEAKER_09: Okay, grandma.
18:09
SPEAKER_10: Um so I call you Nana.
18:12
SPEAKER_10: Or Nana, yeah.
18:13
SPEAKER_10: Abuela, whatever, whatever you want.
18:16
SPEAKER_10: So in situations like this, I immediately think, okay, the priority in my mind is the children.
18:21
SPEAKER_10: It's not mom and her warm fuzzies, it's not dad and his warm fuzzies.
18:25
SPEAKER_10: It's it's what's important for the kids.
18:28
SPEAKER_10: Okay.
18:28
SPEAKER_10: And so I think what's important for the kids is stability, first of all.
18:33
SPEAKER_09: Yeah.
18:33
SPEAKER_10: And I think um and and Ainsley, if you disagree, if you want to add something.
18:38
SPEAKER_02: I will stop you when I disagree.
18:40
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
18:41
SPEAKER_10: Um and so stability, firstly, and then secondly, I think family is is of utmost importance.
18:47
SPEAKER_10: And so if you can have family that provides stability, I think that's going to be definitely a key.
18:53
SPEAKER_10: Or that's going to be essential.
18:54
SPEAKER_10: And so is there what is stopping you from being able to have those kids in your home right now?
19:03
SPEAKER_04: Um, we're just waiting for the judge to determine that they can come to us.
19:08
SPEAKER_04: So they're just getting held up in the process.
19:11
SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah, that stuff to take a while to to cross the T's and dot the I's.
19:16
SPEAKER_02: Um uh so back to what I was saying.
19:20
SPEAKER_02: Um the um the the there's already barriers in place with mom, it sounds like.
19:26
SPEAKER_02: Um it uh is she allowed unsupervised visits?
19:29
SPEAKER_09: No.
19:30
SPEAKER_02: C C yeah, so the kids are already protected by the state, right?
19:35
SPEAKER_02: Like they're um they're they're she that they have to have supervised visits.
19:38
SPEAKER_02: Um they're they're in foster care.
19:40
SPEAKER_02: Mom has a number of hoops to jump through just to be able to see her kids regularly.
19:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
19:46
SPEAKER_02: Um, so I I think that you can rest assured that um like currently the kids are safe.
19:53
SPEAKER_02: What what it's gonna um what you're gonna have to navigate in the future, should mom meet all the requirements of the state, um, what what is that gonna look like when they're under your care?
20:05
SPEAKER_02: And how are you going to be the the parents slash grandparent?
20:08
SPEAKER_02: And that's and that's uh a really tricky situation to be in for families when um uh grandparents are parenting their grandchildren.
20:17
SPEAKER_02: You kind of play two roles, um, and and it and it can be tricky.
20:21
SPEAKER_10: But I also hear that um, grandma, that you're saying that is this your daughter, your biological daughter?
20:26
SPEAKER_09: Yes.
20:26
SPEAKER_10: Okay, so there's that challenge as well.
20:28
SPEAKER_10: So I I view this as two as two things going on currently.
20:32
SPEAKER_10: There's one where you're the grandma that realizes, okay, I need to keep I I knew I want to parent these kids, I want to parent my grandkids and provide stabil familial stability for them.
20:42
SPEAKER_10: But I also want I love my daughter, I'm assuming, and and I want to stay in contact with her.
20:49
SPEAKER_10: So in your mind, I believe one trumps the other, honestly, just to be just to be real.
20:56
SPEAKER_10: I think that the importance of the children trump um your love for your daughter currently.
21:03
SPEAKER_10: Now, that's not that's not let me be clear, that doesn't mean stop loving your daughter.
21:08
SPEAKER_10: It means that if if if you're faced with the decision of um taking over parenting role of these kids and um putting your daughter's welfare on the back burner, that's what you do because your daughter's a grown adult woman who who are making who is making choices that are you know have led to these children being taken away.
21:31
SPEAKER_09: Yes.
21:32
SPEAKER_10: And so m my suggestion to you is this is it's definitely a tricky, a balancing act, but it sounds like your daughter has no authority over these children right now.
21:44
SPEAKER_04: No, not at this point.
21:45
SPEAKER_10: Okay.
21:46
SPEAKER_10: So in regards to trying to keep lines of communication open and make sure things that stay make sure things stay okay with your daughter, I think that should take secondary place in regards to you getting
22:03
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
22:25
SPEAKER_02: Well, so it it so that kind of depends on what you mean by reunification.
22:29
SPEAKER_02: Like if we're talking about a permanent placement with mom, or if we're talking about mom being able to have unsupervised visits with the kids.
22:37
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, well, their main goal is to reunify the family, which means they would be re-established, you know, in their own stability.
22:44
SPEAKER_02: So and and and what I would say to you is that um excuse me, I gotta speak into the mic as my first time.
22:50
SPEAKER_02: Um uh what I would say to you is that if if in fact you believe that the kids are going to be unsafe with mom, um, you would be doing yourself and your family a disservice if you were not um truthful about this belief.
23:08
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
23:08
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, I mean it it definitely sounds like and again that's where I think a lot of people get in trouble because they love their kid and they don't want to speak ill of their kid.
23:18
SPEAKER_10: But again, in my opinion, grandkids trump your own kid.
23:25
SPEAKER_02: Well, and or minor minors trump adults.
23:28
SPEAKER_02: And and and unfortunately, that's the reality of the situation, and and it's and it's a really hard reality to sit with for everybody.
23:35
SPEAKER_02: Um and and if you step outside of that, you're you're no longer in what reality, right?
23:42
SPEAKER_02: Like, like, like these are your this is what you've seen, this is the track record, this is where we're at right now, and it's awful.
23:49
SPEAKER_02: So do you have good interaction with the social worker assigned to the case?
23:52
SPEAKER_09: Yes, we do.
23:54
SPEAKER_10: Okay.
23:55
SPEAKER_10: And um you know what what would be ideal, and maybe this is a stretch, but it would be ideal if you could get your daughter to sign over custody to you, even if it's temporary custody.
24:07
SPEAKER_10: Has has that have you ever considered that?
24:11
SPEAKER_04: Um, well, I think that if if we present that, it may be taken that we're not in compliance with what they want, which is us, everyone helping them to reunify, so we have to be careful because if we're not part of their plan, then they can cut us out of the picture.
24:30
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
24:31
SPEAKER_04: So that's where we're concerned.
24:32
SPEAKER_04: We would like to ask her to just, you know, sign over, release her children until such time as she gets her act together and then she could at least have visitation at that point.
24:44
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, but reunification uh is not gonna be happening in the near future.
24:49
SPEAKER_10: I mean, because if if mom has to go do all these things, that's gonna take a period of time.
24:57
SPEAKER_10: A large period of time because she not only has to do them but has to be successful in them.
25:01
SPEAKER_10: Right.
25:01
SPEAKER_10: And so and so reunification isn't likely to happen for at least six months.
25:07
SPEAKER_10: And so if if there's when's your next court date, do you know?
25:11
SPEAKER_04: December seventh.
25:12
SPEAKER_10: Okay, that's good.
25:13
SPEAKER_10: So if if there's any and and hopefully the judge can determine if that's when you get the the babies.
25:19
SPEAKER_10: Yes.
25:20
SPEAKER_10: Okay.
25:21
SPEAKER_10: So I think then you just keep in good communication with the social worker still, and and you do you do everything you can to show that your house is better than the foster the current foster house.
25:34
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we actually had to get our foster license and ha go through the complete process.
25:38
SPEAKER_10: Oh yeah, okay.
25:39
SPEAKER_10: I I would way to go.
25:40
SPEAKER_10: Nice.
25:41
SPEAKER_10: I would say you guys are like ideal, but the problem the problem that I experience a lot of times with the the court and and DSHS and stuff is that they don't sometimes they just don't make decisions that make sense.
25:56
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
25:57
SPEAKER_04: That's kind of what we've experienced a little bit.
25:59
SPEAKER_10: And so I I would say the the the decision that makes sense in this case is to to have these children go to your home.
26:08
SPEAKER_10: I mean, because if you've done all these things to to um get them in there, I mean that that would make sense.
26:14
SPEAKER_10: And it saves the state some money as well, right?
26:18
SPEAKER_10: Because there's that financial aspect.
26:20
SPEAKER_10: Um so is that is does that answer your question, or is there any other question?
26:23
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's a confirmation to us that we're totally on the right track, you know.
26:27
SPEAKER_04: I mean it's that divided loyalty, but our our deal has been, our perspective has been that the children need an advocate for them.
26:35
SPEAKER_04: The parents can choose to do whatever they want, but they need someone to step up and protect them.
26:40
SPEAKER_10: So as a side note, um so is this did you raise this daughter?
26:46
SPEAKER_10: Okay, so there I don't know, do you have guilt over anything?
26:52
SPEAKER_04: Um, I not so much.
26:54
SPEAKER_04: I mean, we have six children, so we just have one that just decided this is where our life's gonna be.
27:00
SPEAKER_04: The rest of them, you know, they're all raised to be responsible adults and contributing to Okay.
27:07
SPEAKER_04: I I I asked you, this is choices she's made.
27:10
SPEAKER_04: I just have had to accept that.
27:12
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, and I ask that because I think um that guilt could get in the way of good decision making now.
27:18
SPEAKER_10: And so it it but it sounds like you have come to terms with kind of the decisions that she's she has made.
27:25
SPEAKER_10: And now the the other siblings, are they also supportive of you bringing on the the grandkids?
27:33
SPEAKER_04: Yes, very much.
27:34
SPEAKER_10: Okay.
27:34
SPEAKER_10: Oh yeah.
27:35
SPEAKER_10: So I mean, if I had a magic eight ball, it would say all signs point to yes.
27:42
SPEAKER_10: You you should you should get these kids.
27:44
SPEAKER_10: Now, w I don't know if you're in Oregon or Washington, but I mean mistakes are often made in both states.
27:50
SPEAKER_10: So hopefully they will they will not um make a mistake.
27:56
SPEAKER_04: Well the c the complication is the kids are in California and we're in Washington.
28:02
SPEAKER_10: Oh that is a complication.
28:06
SPEAKER_10: And where is mom?
28:08
SPEAKER_04: California.
28:09
SPEAKER_10: Okay.
28:10
SPEAKER_10: So you have to go down there.
28:12
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we've been down several times.
28:14
SPEAKER_10: Oh wow.
28:15
SPEAKER_04: Well they were originally removed from the home um almost a year ago.
28:20
SPEAKER_10: Okay.
28:21
SPEAKER_10: Well, I commend you for your love and compassion for me.
28:23
SPEAKER_10: I think that that's dedication.
28:26
SPEAKER_10: That is amazing that you're doing that.
28:29
SPEAKER_10: And and definitely all the best to you.
28:31
SPEAKER_10: Um thank you for thank you for calling grandma.
28:35
SPEAKER_10: Bye, Nana.
28:36
SPEAKER_10: All right, Thanksgiving.
28:37
SPEAKER_10: You too.
28:38
SPEAKER_10: All right, take care.
28:41
SPEAKER_10: Oh, whoops.
28:42
SPEAKER_10: Wait, okay.
28:43
SPEAKER_10: Did you get you get it?
28:44
SPEAKER_10: It locked for a second, but it looks good now.
28:46
unknown: All right.
28:46
SPEAKER_10: Oh, that was our first phone call.
28:48
SPEAKER_10: I feel so that was awesome.
28:50
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, you were uh Ainsley, you're a good luck charm.
28:52
SPEAKER_02: You're welcome.
28:52
SPEAKER_02: You you were you were wanting the phone call.
28:54
SPEAKER_10: It's all you.
28:55
SPEAKER_10: There it is.
28:56
SPEAKER_10: And then I was thinking, wait, is that someone that's been asked to call?
28:59
SPEAKER_10: Was that a plant?
29:00
SPEAKER_10: Did you call?
29:00
SPEAKER_10: Did you have someone did you tell someone to call?
29:03
SPEAKER_10: I put the word out on the street.
29:04
SPEAKER_10: You did.
29:05
SPEAKER_10: Okay, good for you.
29:06
SPEAKER_10: All right.
29:07
SPEAKER_10: So we are um wanting to talk about.
29:11
SPEAKER_10: So Ainsley loves working with Angry Boys.
29:16
SPEAKER_10: Angry boys.
29:16
SPEAKER_02: Or angry kids, right?
29:18
SPEAKER_02: Well, mostly the boys.
29:19
SPEAKER_02: I like uh there's a certain amount of um honesty that comes with an angry boy um that I really appreciate.
29:28
SPEAKER_02: I like it.
29:29
SPEAKER_02: I like your way that you said that.
29:31
SPEAKER_10: The strength-based communational statement.
29:34
SPEAKER_10: Loud, loud communication styles of angry boys.
29:41
SPEAKER_10: It's funny because I I love what I do most of the time.
29:44
SPEAKER_10: I'm maybe a little bit different than you.
29:47
SPEAKER_10: But I've been doing it for 15, almost 16 years.
29:50
SPEAKER_10: Well, yeah, you're jaded, so you know.
29:52
SPEAKER_10: I'm burnt out.
29:53
SPEAKER_10: I need to go to Poland for another two weeks.
29:56
SPEAKER_10: In a corner and and rock myself to sleep.
29:58
SPEAKER_10: In Poland.
29:59
SPEAKER_10: So um a lot of times I what I find with angry boys, as you say, or just angry people in general, is that um there's things that fuel that anger.
30:08
SPEAKER_09: Right.
30:09
SPEAKER_10: And I was writing it down in my notes that the things that and and if you have more to add to the list, feel free to do so.
30:15
SPEAKER_10: But I always I often tell people he's just angry or I'm just angry, and um kind of slow him down.
30:22
SPEAKER_10: Say, okay, anger in my opinion is a secondary emotion.
30:26
SPEAKER_10: Right?
30:26
SPEAKER_10: I usually think anger is fueled by hurt, sadness, disappointment, or some type of loss.
30:32
SPEAKER_10: Um I don't agree to 100%, but mostly.
30:36
SPEAKER_10: So, and it's not and it's not, and let me get more detailed on that.
30:40
SPEAKER_10: Get deep.
30:41
SPEAKER_10: Uh I won't get deep, but I'll get detailed.
30:43
SPEAKER_10: So, for example, if you get hurt one time, generally speaking, you're not gonna get anger, angry.
30:49
SPEAKER_10: But if you get hurt over and over and over again, or if you get experience sadness or disappointment or loss over and over and over again, I think at some point um either you you keep taking that in and you get significantly depressed or it affects your mental health.
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32:32
SPEAKER_10: Or you get angry.
32:35
SPEAKER_10: And anger comes out and it's fueled by hurt, sadness, disappointment or loss.
32:40
SPEAKER_10: Okay.
32:41
SPEAKER_02: So the the the two areas where I would um you may not disagree with me, but maybe you're leaving out.
32:48
SPEAKER_02: Um you may say, oh yeah, I totally agree with that.
32:50
SPEAKER_02: Uh I don't think that I think that there's there is an appropri there's an appropriate um anger response to actual situations where it's not a secondary emotion, but it's actually a primary and the appropriate response to the situation.
33:05
SPEAKER_09: Okay.
33:05
SPEAKER_02: Um, for example, um, murder, rape, um, human trafficking, things like that happens one time, I'm gonna be pretty pissed.
33:15
SPEAKER_09: Okay.
33:16
SPEAKER_10: Um like Auschwitz was an example for me, like this thing ha this I don't even atrocity.
33:23
SPEAKER_10: I don't know.
33:23
SPEAKER_10: That doesn't even seem like it describes it well.
33:26
SPEAKER_10: And and I just I left thinking being kind of angry.
33:30
SPEAKER_10: Right.
33:30
SPEAKER_10: But I can't do anything about it.
33:32
SPEAKER_02: Well, sure sure, you can't do anything about it.
33:33
SPEAKER_02: And I'm not uh what I I'm also not saying that it's not accompanied by those other things.
33:36
SPEAKER_02: You're probably very sad at Auschwitz um um and and hurt by the things that happened.
33:43
SPEAKER_02: Um but I think that the the primary response in in in a situation like that is anger, and I think that that's an appropriate response.
33:49
SPEAKER_02: I think that there's a biblical basis for that side note, but um we won't get into that.
33:53
SPEAKER_02: Um the other one is um when we talk about skills, uh we talk about um kids who have low frustration tolerance or poor emotional regulation.
34:03
SPEAKER_02: Um they uh I don't know how to describe it.
34:08
SPEAKER_02: The is it is it a secondary response?
34:14
SPEAKER_02: Um maybe, but I think it's it's because the the pathways that they've um developed instead of going into sad have developed into anger.
34:24
SPEAKER_02: So like it's been rerouted.
34:26
SPEAKER_10: Have you seen that um Pixar movie, Inside Out?
34:28
SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah, actually, I own it.
34:29
SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah.
34:30
SPEAKER_02: Do you like it?
34:31
SPEAKER_02: I love that movie.
34:32
SPEAKER_10: That movie is great.
34:33
SPEAKER_10: It's pretty good.
34:34
SPEAKER_10: Um So let me ask you this, because you brought up something.
34:38
SPEAKER_10: So the so I was picturing in my mind these kids that I've interacted with that something doesn't go their way and there's just this immediate and I'm not talking teenagers, I'm talking younger kids like seven, eight, nine, six, seven, eight, nine.
34:51
SPEAKER_10: And there's this immediate like place where they go that's just this angry place, right?
34:58
SPEAKER_10: Or this rage or or whatever.
35:00
SPEAKER_10: And so I was wondering, do you think that that is um a learned thing that they that they've learned from being raised by maybe parents that don't have emotional an emotional an ability to regulate emotionally?
35:18
SPEAKER_02: Well you you're kind of bringing up like um uh is is it is it environment or is it genetic, right?
35:25
SPEAKER_02: Like the the the chicken or the egg.
35:27
SPEAKER_10: Well see, so when you say genetic, yeah, man, it is hard for me to say that that that kind of response to not getting their way is simply genetic.
35:37
SPEAKER_02: Uh so it's hard to say it either way.
35:42
SPEAKER_02: No, no, no, get out of here.
35:44
SPEAKER_02: Well, because that's that's a given, right?
35:46
SPEAKER_02: Like um, like that's gonna blanket everything.
35:48
SPEAKER_02: Right.
35:48
SPEAKER_02: Um uh the and when I'm talking about because you're you're asking if it's environmental specifically, and I think that it's a little too complicated to say that it's it's only environmental or it's uh purely genetic.
36:02
SPEAKER_02: I think that those two are um interconnected so intimately that you can't separate them.
36:07
SPEAKER_10: Um I guess for me, I I tend to be more of a nurture guy.
36:14
SPEAKER_10: Uh I think a lot of th those behaviors that you see from seven, eight, nine-year-olds tend to be um grow I mean, they they grew into it because of how they were raised as toddlers and then as six, seven, eights, and then you know, thinking of tweens and teens and and the behavior.
36:34
SPEAKER_10: Uh I often see when kids are acting up at six, seven, eight, I I often think, what is that gonna look like as a teenager if it doesn't get addressed?
36:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I don't I don't I don't disagree with that.
36:44
SPEAKER_02: The thing that in my mind that makes it so sticky and complicated is that um our environment and our um our our lives that um will change our genetic code.
36:57
SPEAKER_02: Um like there it has effects on our on our biochemistry.
37:02
SPEAKER_02: Okay um and I don't think that there's enough um research out there to to really say like like like how um extensive is are these effects and and how do they kind of bounce back um the one coming down down from the environment into the genetics and back up from genetics into the environment.
37:22
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
37:22
SPEAKER_02: So it's a little meta and complicated, but my eyes are starting to glaze over.
37:29
SPEAKER_02: But but sure, I I I do think that that ultimately like um we are people, we're we're uh we're so uh amazing um uh as far as resiliency, um, our ability to to withstand things like Auschwitz.
37:45
SPEAKER_02: Um Viktor Frankel, I think, was yeah, was the um psychologist who was in um uh one of the Nazi concentration camps.
37:53
SPEAKER_02: Um and one of his big things was like you determine how you respond to your environment.
38:00
SPEAKER_02: Um and crazy.
38:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
38:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
38:03
SPEAKER_10: Um and you think, okay, I probably should listen to him because he was in the Nazi concentration camp.
38:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
38:10
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
38:11
SPEAKER_02: And survived and thrived.
38:12
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
38:13
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
38:13
SPEAKER_10: Okay, so I want to keep talking, but let me give the number up.
38:16
SPEAKER_10: Um 800-845-2162.
38:20
SPEAKER_10: Grab a pen, pencil, put it on your iPad.
38:23
SPEAKER_10: What was that number again?
38:24
SPEAKER_10: 800-845-2162.
38:28
SPEAKER_10: I just wanted to hear you say it again.
38:29
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, because of my silky smooth voice.
38:32
SPEAKER_10: So uh so do you so do you agree then that the hurt, sadness, disappointment, or loss can fuel anger?
38:38
SPEAKER_02: I think yes, it can.
38:39
SPEAKER_02: Um I don't uh again, like I it's hard.
38:42
SPEAKER_10: I don't I agree with your other two things that you said, by the way, where there's there's um bad behavior that happens that I wonder if that's like the righteous anger thing, right?
38:55
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
38:55
SPEAKER_10: So like talking about Jesus being angry.
38:59
SPEAKER_02: Be angry and do not sin, you know.
39:00
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, Jesus was angry.
39:02
SPEAKER_02: Um he snorted, I think is the translation.
39:06
SPEAKER_02: Something like that.
39:07
SPEAKER_02: That's the message.
39:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
39:10
SPEAKER_10: Um so do you know why you enjoy working with angry boys?
39:17
SPEAKER_10: I was an angry boy, David.
39:18
SPEAKER_10: Oh, you were?
39:19
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
39:19
SPEAKER_10: So w what did you do with your anger?
39:22
SPEAKER_10: Like how describe yourself.
39:24
SPEAKER_02: Oh what what age?
39:25
SPEAKER_02: What age do you want me to describe myself?
39:27
SPEAKER_02: Teenager.
39:27
SPEAKER_02: That's who we work with.
39:28
SPEAKER_02: That's who we work with.
39:29
SPEAKER_02: What what kind of what kind of uh twanger?
39:32
SPEAKER_02: Uh is it uh um so by that time um I was starting to do what we we in the field called sublimation, uh which is finding socially appropriate um outlets for behavior that would be otherwise inappropriate.
39:56
SPEAKER_02: Um and uh Okay.
39:59
SPEAKER_02: So this may have me intrigued.
40:02
SPEAKER_02: Um so that's uh that's like you know, somebody who likes to fight becomes a boxer.
40:07
SPEAKER_10: Okay.
40:08
SPEAKER_10: Or group or plays football.
40:09
SPEAKER_02: Or plays football.
40:11
SPEAKER_02: Uh case in point.
40:12
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, I I uh I got into football um and it was it probably saved my life.
40:19
SPEAKER_02: Um it was someplace where I didn't have to to think about all of the stuff that was going on around me and I could just let my my emotions, all this stuff fly.
40:31
SPEAKER_02: Um and it and I think it helped me get a kind of a a handle on um how to manage it better as well, because um if I uh uh gave in to those um rages or if I would um get too down on myself, like I wouldn't play well.
40:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
40:50
SPEAKER_02: Uh and I don't like not playing well.
40:52
SPEAKER_02: So you know, nobody likes to suck.
40:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
40:54
SPEAKER_02: No.
40:55
SPEAKER_02: Um so I was playing football.
40:58
SPEAKER_02: Um so would that help like reduce your anger, I guess?
41:05
SPEAKER_02: Um it helped manage it.
41:07
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
41:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
41:08
SPEAKER_02: So um I don't know how much it it reduced it.
41:12
SPEAKER_02: Um it was it was one of those things that I didn't know what to do with.
41:16
SPEAKER_02: I didn't at the time didn't know exactly what was going on and didn't have a ton of help from my parents or anyone else around.
41:23
SPEAKER_02: So I was left kind of to figure it out on my own.
41:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
41:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
41:27
SPEAKER_10: Okay.
41:28
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
41:28
SPEAKER_10: And so then was there a point that you kind of graduated out of being angry?
41:35
SPEAKER_10: Or are you still angry?
41:36
SPEAKER_10: Are you like seething right now?
41:38
SPEAKER_02: Uh the the um the rage rage coma.
41:42
SPEAKER_10: So yeah, so you're like this Hulk guy, right?
41:45
SPEAKER_10: That's uh rage right now.
41:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I don't uh David probably hasn't I don't know if you described me yet, but I'm I'm a I'm a fairly large man.
41:53
SPEAKER_02: I'm pretty imposing.
41:55
SPEAKER_10: Um That's why I like giving you referrals for Angry Boys.
42:00
SPEAKER_10: I love them.
42:03
SPEAKER_10: Let's go bully Ainsley.
42:04
SPEAKER_10: Oh, wait.
42:05
SPEAKER_10: He benched how much did you bench?
42:06
SPEAKER_10: All of it.
42:07
SPEAKER_10: I know.
42:08
SPEAKER_10: Oh, good one.
42:08
SPEAKER_10: Okay.
42:10
SPEAKER_10: What's what's the weight amount?
42:12
SPEAKER_10: All the weight.
42:13
SPEAKER_10: All the weight.
42:14
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
42:15
SPEAKER_10: No, I'm finding a number figure.
42:17
SPEAKER_10: So I this is helping people visualize you.
42:20
SPEAKER_02: Uh do you mean like right now, or do you mean why don't you ask me how much I squat?
42:24
SPEAKER_02: Nobody ever asks that.
42:25
SPEAKER_02: Or deadlift.
42:26
SPEAKER_10: Okay, how much do you deadlift?
42:27
SPEAKER_02: Uh uh right now I do reps of uh 35 or 355, five sets of five, and I try to like not take a ton of 355 pounds?
42:39
SPEAKER_02: 355 pounds, yeah.
42:41
SPEAKER_10: Is that a lot?
42:42
SPEAKER_02: Uh it's for deadlifting.
42:43
SPEAKER_02: Clark is that it's respectable.
42:44
SPEAKER_10: Is that how much you deadlift?
42:46
SPEAKER_10: 355?
42:47
SPEAKER_10: Oh, Clark said he does it all the time.
42:48
SPEAKER_02: It's respectable.
42:49
SPEAKER_02: It's not it's not a it's not a ton.
42:51
SPEAKER_10: Um I don't even know the last time I deadlifted.
42:53
SPEAKER_02: I probably couldn't do 355.
42:54
SPEAKER_10: I could I I could probably do like 50.
42:58
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
42:58
SPEAKER_10: Right.
42:58
SPEAKER_10: So Okay, so that's a lot.
43:00
SPEAKER_10: They call me Mountain.
43:04
SPEAKER_10: Okay.
43:05
SPEAKER_10: Mountain.
43:05
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
43:06
SPEAKER_10: Good for you.
43:06
SPEAKER_10: Okay.
43:07
SPEAKER_10: So tell can you tell me a case, uh tell me about a case that you've you you've been in practice for a long time, so you've you've seen over 20 cases.
43:18
SPEAKER_10: Well over 20 cases.
43:20
SPEAKER_10: So you probably have a memorable case where they and I'm wanting to ask you this because there might be someone that's listening that's a mom or a dad that has a teenager or even a a tween that they don't know what to do with with the angry outbursts, and they're confused.
43:36
SPEAKER_10: And so I'm just wanting to hear about maybe a case that you had where the parents were kind of perplexed.
43:43
SPEAKER_10: They didn't know what to do.
43:45
SPEAKER_10: And um or maybe they didn't know what to do, but they weren't doing it the right way.
43:49
SPEAKER_10: Or and so then you were able to help them and and even help the teen or the the the identified patient um reduce their anger, deal with it more appropriately.
43:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
43:59
SPEAKER_02: Um Well, it it it's hard because can you throw an age at me? 'Cause it kind of depends on what what age group we're talking about.
44:08
SPEAKER_10: Uh teenager, so a sixteen year old.
44:10
SPEAKER_02: Sixteen, yeah.
44:11
SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, so it's one of those things that um teenagers there's a there's a transition from um uh the p uh a more uh uh autonomous uh uh person.
44:31
SPEAKER_02: Uh when when uh autonomous meaning independent.
44:35
SPEAKER_02: Independent.
44:35
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, like I'm able to make my own choices, um, you can't tell me what to do.
44:39
SPEAKER_10: Uh oh, but I can't.
44:41
SPEAKER_02: Oh, but I yeah, let's see how well that goes.
44:45
SPEAKER_02: It works in my family.
44:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, sure.
44:47
SPEAKER_02: Um so uh uh like I'm gonna kinda kind of mash together a couple cases, but um the you know I'll come in and typically there's been some some kind of blow up, right?
45:00
SPEAKER_02: Either the parent has um been physical or inappropriate with the kid somehow, um CPS gets involved, or the kid has um assaulted the parent um and the police get called.
45:16
SPEAKER_02: Um so I come in and there's either one of two things going on.
45:21
SPEAKER_02: The parent is um blaming the kid for for what has happened, right?
45:29
SPEAKER_02: Like and the kid genuinely probably feels bad.
45:32
SPEAKER_02: Um the nine times out of ten, the kids feel bad.
45:35
SPEAKER_02: Um parents have a little harder time feeling bad sometimes.
45:38
SPEAKER_10: Well, I think that they don't let the parents know that they feel bad.
45:41
SPEAKER_02: Uh yes.
45:42
SPEAKER_02: Uh until I get there.
45:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
45:44
SPEAKER_02: But um anyway, so so with the kids, the I'll go in there, I'll talk to them, um, I'll show them an uh an incredible amount of respect, and I will expect and demand that they I will demand uh mostly mostly expect.
46:01
SPEAKER_02: I expect them to respect me back.
46:03
SPEAKER_02: Um and I just kind of take that as a given, which a lot of these kids don't get um from other people in their lives.
46:11
SPEAKER_02: They're just screw-ups and that's what they always do, and like, oh, they're just selfish, or you know, any number of things that that's the same.
46:19
SPEAKER_02: So you stab establish a relationship with them.
46:22
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47:51
SPEAKER_02: I I expect them to perform.
47:53
SPEAKER_02: Um, I expect them to do the things that most people don't expect them to do.
47:58
SPEAKER_02: Um and I do it in my my thoughts, words, and behavior.
48:02
SPEAKER_02: Um, and when they do something that's outside of that, I act kind of surprised and shocked.
48:09
SPEAKER_02: Um you know, and I'll I'll call I'll call out the ridiculousness of it.
48:14
SPEAKER_09: Right.
48:15
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, I'll say something like, um, oh man, like, I didn't know you were such a jerk.
48:22
SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, and we'll laugh about it, you know, and then you know, the kid will normally chuckle and and and I'll laugh too.
48:29
SPEAKER_02: And then um nine times out of ten, the the kid's going to to augment their behavior because they know what they did wasn't okay.
48:38
SPEAKER_02: I knew that what what they did wasn't okay, and I'm drawing attention to it.
48:42
SPEAKER_10: And let me put let me pause because I think that's that is the the beauty of a therapist, because if a parent said that to the kid, there would be fireworks.
48:53
SPEAKER_02: Well, and that's the thing, right?
48:54
SPEAKER_02: Like the and this goes back to um expecting them to perform, right?
48:59
SPEAKER_02: The parents expect them to misbehave.
49:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
49:02
SPEAKER_02: Right.
49:02
SPEAKER_02: Um I'm taking the misbehavior as as the um uh the outlier, right?
49:08
SPEAKER_02: Oh, that was weird.
49:08
SPEAKER_02: What just happened then?
49:09
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
49:10
SPEAKER_10: Whereas if mom or dad said, Wow, I never knew you were such a jerk.
49:13
SPEAKER_10: You think I'm a jerk now?
49:15
SPEAKER_10: Wait till I get going.
49:16
SPEAKER_10: Right.
49:17
SPEAKER_02: Right, exactly.
49:18
SPEAKER_02: And so there's already shame, there's already negativity, there's already blaming um uh built up internally coming out in those moments, because that's that's what is viewed as the norm.
49:28
SPEAKER_02: Right.
49:29
SPEAKER_02: Um, so I I uh a part of what I'm doing is bringing in a fresh perspective and and another way to think about things and for the parents to see things, because nine times out of ten, the kids don't want to be doing the things that they're doing when they're upset.
49:41
SPEAKER_02: Um uh I I sit down and I talk to them about it, and I asked the kids, like, Oh, do you enjoy getting in trouble?
49:48
SPEAKER_02: Of course not.
49:49
SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't like getting in trouble, I don't like being on probation, I don't like getting kicked out of school.
49:54
SPEAKER_02: Like they're they're embarrassed at their inability to manage these situations.
50:00
SPEAKER_02: Um and they don't know how to do anything else.
50:03
SPEAKER_02: So I come in and I teach them how to do other things, and I teach them how to do that with their parents.
50:09
SPEAKER_10: Okay.
50:10
SPEAKER_02: And you make it sound so easy.
50:12
SPEAKER_02: Um so the difficulty the difficulty's easy, isn't it?
50:16
SPEAKER_02: Uh well you so easy yeah, easy in uh easy in concept, uh difficult to do, right?
50:22
SPEAKER_02: Like jumping practicality.
50:23
SPEAKER_02: Jumping jumping out of an airplane.
50:25
SPEAKER_02: Like you've you've walked off the sidewalk so many times.
50:28
SPEAKER_02: All you gotta do is just walk out.
50:30
unknown: Yeah.
50:30
SPEAKER_10: Same thing.
50:31
SPEAKER_10: Okay.
50:32
SPEAKER_10: So d does an example come to mind of like a s something successful that yeah, yeah.
50:39
SPEAKER_02: So um there's a kid uh that was having behaviors at school and at home.
50:48
SPEAKER_02: Um he would get really upset and would be unable to problem solve with mom and and dad.
50:56
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, I get in there and things aren't going well, right?
50:59
SPEAKER_02: Like, oh he always does this.
51:00
SPEAKER_10: He always like he's Well, and let's be clear, this isn't just like, oh, he doesn't um pick he doesn't put his dishes away after he's done eating.
51:09
SPEAKER_10: Th this is like serious.
51:12
SPEAKER_10: He's calling his mother.
51:14
SPEAKER_10: Uh I don't know the case, but I'm just thinking about cases I've worked with.
51:18
SPEAKER_02: Cussing out mom, they've gotten into a physical altercation.
51:21
SPEAKER_10: Horrible names, punching holes in walls, stuff like that, yeah.
51:25
SPEAKER_10: Threatening people, maybe.
51:27
SPEAKER_10: Yep.
51:27
SPEAKER_10: Okay.
51:28
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
51:28
SPEAKER_02: Um really uh uh typically it's really severe behavior.
51:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
51:32
SPEAKER_02: Um so get in there, we know, like, hey, what's going on?
51:38
SPEAKER_02: Um, one of the things I do is I look at um how does everybody contribute to the problem?
51:42
SPEAKER_02: Because this stuff isn't happening in isolation.
51:45
SPEAKER_02: Right.
51:45
SPEAKER_02: Um and and that's typically hardest for the parents to take a look at, like how how they're actually contributing to this behavior.
51:52
SPEAKER_10: Again, another beauty of a therapist.
51:54
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
51:54
SPEAKER_02: Um if I can get the the parents to see that within the first session or two, like we will hit the ground running.
52:04
SPEAKER_02: Like like serious success really quick.
52:07
SPEAKER_02: These parents were were actually pretty good at um at coming to that within the first two or three sessions.
52:15
SPEAKER_10: That's I think that's hard to do for parents, but it's basically parents taking ownership of what they've brought to the table.
52:21
SPEAKER_10: Right, because whose kids are they?
52:22
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
52:24
SPEAKER_10: Well, I mean, that's the nature versus nurture thing, right?
52:27
SPEAKER_02: Well, kind of, because whose kids are they genetically.
52:30
SPEAKER_10: Well, but see, but but who's been but who's been raising who's been raising these kids?
52:35
SPEAKER_10: And whose genetic code do they have?
52:38
SPEAKER_10: I'm not so convinced about the genetic code.
52:40
SPEAKER_02: You know, there's uh uh our environment augments our our brain structure.
52:46
SPEAKER_02: Like like this Let's let's stand asking.
52:49
SPEAKER_10: Anyway, so this is a family that you were able to get um parents by they bought it.
52:54
SPEAKER_02: They bought in pretty quick, um, and uh the you know, we worked on on you know, like what are the escalation points?
53:04
SPEAKER_02: Like what are the things that each of you are doing to contribute to the to the escalation, right?
53:09
SPEAKER_02: Like, um uh kiddo, are you not saying that you're upset?
53:14
SPEAKER_02: Um are you continue uh you know, mom, are you continuing to um push him when he's already frustrated, right?
53:23
SPEAKER_02: So like and this is a this is a conversation I love to have with parents, right?
53:26
SPEAKER_02: So you so you're taking a kid who um already has l well what we're gonna call like um a low frustration tolerance.
53:35
SPEAKER_02: Um and so you can think of it as a as a bucket, right?
53:39
SPEAKER_02: Like these kids, um their their buckets have these massive holes in them, so you will never be able to to fill the buckets all the way up.
53:47
SPEAKER_02: Whereas you're you and I um we've either plugged the holes or we did never had them to begin with.
53:52
SPEAKER_02: Um so you're taking a kid and asking him to to to fill his bucket up and to carry it, you know, across the room.
54:02
SPEAKER_02: In these so like like perfect example, this kid's was um acting out, right?
54:07
SPEAKER_02: He's I forget what he was frustrated with.
54:10
SPEAKER_02: Um in order to motivate the kid to to to listen and to be compliant, they said, um, oh well we're gonna take away your video games.
54:18
SPEAKER_02: Um awful thing to do for a kid like that in this situation, which you've just done was was is take some a kid who's already um angry, escalated, and given him more to be angry and escalated about.
54:31
SPEAKER_02: Right.
54:32
SPEAKER_02: Um so essentially you're like, oh, gasoline on this fire, yes, please.
54:36
SPEAKER_02: Um and I asked, I typically ask, oh, what happened?
54:40
SPEAKER_02: Uh well he got more upset.
54:43
SPEAKER_02: Huh.
54:44
SPEAKER_02: Weird.
54:46
SPEAKER_02: Did he listen to it?
54:47
SPEAKER_10: I mean, and I think no and I think to the parents' credit, I mean, they're most parents are trying to do the best they can with the tools that they've been given.
54:54
SPEAKER_02: And I'm not, yeah, and I'm not saying that they're maliciously trying to do this, but it's um and it's one of those things that's revelation for the parents when I point this out, right?
55:01
SPEAKER_02: Like, oh wow, like I don't want to do that to him.
55:03
SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, I know you don't, and this is what's happening, you know.
55:06
SPEAKER_02: Like, same with the kids when they when they tee off on their parents, like, I'm sure you don't want to punch your mom in the face, right?
55:12
SPEAKER_02: Like, like what kind of and and I ask kids in church uh that I see, you know, um, what kind of man do you want to be?
55:20
SPEAKER_02: Um and uh I haven't I've yet to meet a kid, tell me, I would like to be the type of man that hits women.
55:28
SPEAKER_02: Right.
55:29
SPEAKER_02: I mean right.
55:31
SPEAKER_02: You know, like and and it's I'd be surprised if someone ever said that.
55:35
SPEAKER_02: Nobody's ever said it.
55:36
SPEAKER_02: Nobody to date, no, no kid has ever told me that.
55:39
SPEAKER_02: Um and and when I ask things like what would you do if someone hit your mom, these kids would go ballistic.
55:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
55:47
SPEAKER_02: Right?
55:47
SPEAKER_02: Like they're they're doing But I can I can hit my mom.
55:50
SPEAKER_02: No, but that's the thing, right?
55:52
SPEAKER_02: Like they're they're either and they're upset at themselves when that happens.
55:56
SPEAKER_02: They're um they can't control they they literally get to the point where they cannot control uh what's happening.
56:02
SPEAKER_02: Um and in part it's a developmental thing.
56:04
SPEAKER_02: The kids haven't learned the skills to be able to do this, and for whatever reason, the parents um have been unable to impart this on them, or they have the same problems.
56:14
SPEAKER_02: Like they have they have the um one of the cases that I'm thinking about, um dad got angry in almost exactly the same way.
56:23
SPEAKER_10: So so f fast forward, we have about eight minutes left.
56:27
SPEAKER_02: So I told you I could talk all day.
56:28
SPEAKER_10: I know you can.
56:30
SPEAKER_10: So tell me tell me the good outcomes.
56:33
SPEAKER_02: All right, so so anyway, so uh they're able to problem solve.
56:37
SPEAKER_02: They stop parenting when the when the kid is upset, which is huge.
56:40
SPEAKER_02: You gotta wait till the kid's calm before you parent.
56:42
SPEAKER_02: Like you cannot incorporate new information when the kid's upside.
56:45
SPEAKER_10: Well, and the parents should wait till they're calm.
56:47
SPEAKER_02: Well, that too, right?
56:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
56:49
SPEAKER_02: Um it is both.
56:50
SPEAKER_02: Um so they were able to do that.
56:52
SPEAKER_02: Uh dad was uh was able to kind of take a look at his emotional response and how it impacts his son.
57:01
SPEAKER_02: And by the end of it, he wasn't he was having zero episodes in the home.
57:06
SPEAKER_02: Um the only time he was ha struggling was in school, and in part that was because school was not um addressing his needs.
57:14
SPEAKER_02: Um Washington, they do some weird things in schools.
57:18
SPEAKER_02: I'd we can get it, I could talk for another hour about that.
57:20
SPEAKER_10: But yeah, I mean that's I I often think that that's hard because you address this behavior in home, and then then they go out of the home, they go to school, and and you can try to help try to address some of the behavior in school, but then you're talking with other kids.
57:35
SPEAKER_02: Well, other professionals who have their own ideas about what should be happening.
57:40
SPEAKER_02: Right.
57:40
SPEAKER_02: And then that that becomes really difficult.
57:42
SPEAKER_02: It's almost like starting therapy all over again with new parents.
57:45
SPEAKER_02: Right.
57:46
SPEAKER_02: The same kid.
57:47
SPEAKER_02: Right.
57:47
SPEAKER_10: So I went um so how how can people find this Ainsley Silva that can help?
57:54
SPEAKER_10: You can look for the mountain.
57:55
SPEAKER_10: Um Yeah, I don't think they I just there's too many clouds out here right now.
58:01
SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah.
58:02
SPEAKER_02: So uh I'm I'm with real life counseling, um, rlcm.org.
58:07
SPEAKER_02: Uh you could find me there on the counselors.
58:10
SPEAKER_02: rlcm.org.
58:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
58:13
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
58:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's the one.
58:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
58:14
SPEAKER_02: I d I like it when you say it.
58:15
SPEAKER_02: Can they find are you do you psychology today?
58:18
SPEAKER_02: Are you do you do anything on Facebook?
58:20
SPEAKER_02: Do you have any pages on Facebook?
58:21
SPEAKER_02: That's my personal page.
58:22
SPEAKER_10: Okay, but you don't have a business page.
58:24
SPEAKER_02: Well, real life counseling has a business page.
58:27
SPEAKER_10: Okay.
58:27
SPEAKER_10: Um like mine that says Doc David.
58:30
SPEAKER_10: Doc.
58:30
SPEAKER_10: That's how you find me on Facebook.
58:32
SPEAKER_10: Fancy man.
58:32
SPEAKER_02: Doc David.
58:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
58:34
SPEAKER_02: Master Silva.
58:35
SPEAKER_10: So R L M C dot.
58:38
SPEAKER_02: R L C N R ReallifeCounseling.org.
58:42
SPEAKER_02: Um and you can also find me on um psychology today.
58:46
SPEAKER_02: I got a page on there.
58:47
SPEAKER_10: Okay.
58:48
SPEAKER_02: Um it's like the web pages.
58:50
SPEAKER_02: The uh yeah, the the actual website's a lot nicer.
58:52
SPEAKER_02: So go there.
58:53
SPEAKER_10: So spell your spell your name, because I I've heard Ainsley spelled several ways.
58:58
SPEAKER_10: Let me tell you the correct one.
58:59
SPEAKER_10: Okay.
58:59
SPEAKER_10: Because there's only one.
59:00
SPEAKER_02: I want to hear the correct way.
59:02
SPEAKER_02: It's uh A-Y-N-S-L-E-Y.
59:05
SPEAKER_10: Okay.
59:06
SPEAKER_02: Silva S-I-L-V.
59:08
SPEAKER_02: Silva of the trees.
59:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
59:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
59:12
SPEAKER_02: Is that what Silva means?
59:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
59:13
SPEAKER_02: Uh no, uh Ainsley.
59:17
SPEAKER_02: Uh in England.
59:18
SPEAKER_02: I forget what kind of land.
59:20
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
59:20
unknown: Yeah.
59:21
SPEAKER_10: Did you ever get teased about your name?
59:22
SPEAKER_10: Let's go, let's go be a little the intro.
59:25
SPEAKER_02: Wait, didn't you used to ask questions to guests?
59:28
SPEAKER_02: Like that was the like you would ask the like what's the embarrassing question or something like that?
59:33
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
59:34
SPEAKER_10: I did.
59:35
SPEAKER_10: That that no one else knows about.
59:36
SPEAKER_10: What's what's something but I'm not doing that because you're you are gonna be a semi-regular, so I don't I don't view you as just a guest.
59:43
SPEAKER_02: I well I'm I'm glad you let me in on this secret.
59:46
SPEAKER_02: Um I uh I did use I uh the the worst time was when a teacher did it.
59:53
SPEAKER_02: Like she said something kind of vulgar, and I was like, what are you the teacher when I'm in high school?
59:59
SPEAKER_02: Like you were this is a death sentence.
1:00:00
SPEAKER_02: What are you doing?
1:00:01
SPEAKER_10: So I'll let you in on a little funny thing that I think is funny.
1:00:04
SPEAKER_10: So I'll when when I have to interact with new social workers, let's say, and I need to send them an email or have a conversation with them, and I say, Oh, Ainsley's going to take this case.
1:00:18
SPEAKER_10: I always make sure that I put in a um uh masculine pronoun.
1:00:25
SPEAKER_10: Yes.
1:00:28
SPEAKER_10: Because over and over again, um what comes back is oh she tell her that my number is whatever, right?
1:00:39
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, and and so I so just to prevent that, I always say, he here is his number, or he can be contacted at I got a really funny story about that.
1:00:50
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if we have time for it, but we got one minute.
1:00:53
SPEAKER_02: Let's make it quick.
1:00:53
SPEAKER_02: All right, quick.
1:00:54
SPEAKER_02: Uh I did um uh I had studied abroad in Mexico, and uh the my host family uh show up, you know, and he has a six foot one, like two hundred and forty-pound bed.
1:01:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:01:08
SPEAKER_02: They thought you were a girl.
1:01:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like no way.
1:01:12
SPEAKER_02: And he looked up at me and I was like, Soy Ainsley.
1:01:17
SPEAKER_10: Soy Ainsley.
1:01:18
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
1:01:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the look on her face, awful.
1:01:21
SPEAKER_10: All right, the rave dance party is coming up.
1:01:23
SPEAKER_10: Thanks for listening today.
1:01:24
SPEAKER_10: Grandma, thank you for calling in.
1:01:26
SPEAKER_10: Hopefully you can get those kids going on up.
1:01:28
SPEAKER_10: Um good luck on December 7th, and we will be back next week.
1:01:33
SPEAKER_10: Possibly with Ainsley, possibly with Dan.
1:01:40
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