Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Mark Cockram about his choice of The Horns of Nimon (1/4)

Transcript

Talks to Mark Cockram about his choice of The Horns of Nimon (1/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:40
  21. Welcome back to hamster with a
• 0:44
  blunt penknife the Doctor Who commentary podcast.
• 0:49
  Hello, hello, would you care to introduce yourself to the
• 0:54
  people? You've never been on this, but
• 0:56
  you have been on many habits, but yeah, cause before, no, no,
• 1:00
  I shouldn't even where'd you come from?
• 1:03
  My name is Mark Cockrum and I am from the all of time and space
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  pod cast the all of time and space.
• 1:09
  Podcast, which has been going for how long now we started in
• 1:12
  2020 as about 500, other podcasted.
• 1:17
  And tell me because we haven't just had an hour's conversation
• 1:21
  before starting this conversation.
• 1:24
  What is a if people haven't explored all the time and space
• 1:29
  with you before? Yeah.
• 1:30
  What's your USP? What are you doing?
• 1:32
  Okay? What is a really original idea?
• 1:34
  No, one's ever thought of this before, especially not your
• 1:36
  other half, we are watching all of Doctor Who from the
• 1:40
  beginning. So we start with an unearthly
• 1:42
  child. We watching in broadcast order.
• 1:45
  I think our if I had To think of a USP for our show is as myself
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  and my friend Ian and we have a revolving door of guests who
• 1:55
  come in. And I think that's what I love
• 1:58
  about our show is so many different voices that come on,
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  and everyone's got a slightly different take on these stories.
• 2:04
  So we've had a few mutual friends, so the lovely mr.
• 2:08
  Jeff has been on and we've had Nick Peg.
• 2:12
  The Dalek operator. We've had Paul scoones who's
• 2:15
  helped to discover one of the missing episodes.
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  Yeah. It's a an Eclectic range of
• 2:21
  people that come on and it's just tremendous fun.
• 2:24
  We have a silly quiz at the start as well, where we
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  threatened, her toss someone into the time lash.
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  So it's it's a bit of been tossed into the time lash.
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  Well, that's the running joke. As Ian will, talk about me, you
• 2:39
  know, they'll say and if you fail the test castle and Cochran
• 2:43
  will toss you into the dirt. I'm Ash careful what you wish
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  for you remember. This is a family podcast or I
• 2:54
  have course. Yes.
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  Now, I have heard the show, but no, no, if you had to recommend
• 3:02
  a single episode for people to go and listen to, as I
• 3:06
  particularly are all amazing, but a particularly amazing
• 3:10
  episode. What would you suggest?
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  Oh, that's hard. She said.
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  I had a great time recording with Jeff and sucky when we did
• 3:25
  the celestial toymaker, that was a lot of fun.
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  A lot of fun. Full of praise for its course.
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  She loved it, not too much, but but generally quite even-handed
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  and we try and look for the good in stories, but that was one
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  where we all kind of were all speaking over on a similar line.
• 3:47
  I'm in our appreciation for that particular Story.
• 3:51
  I mean, never mind, Prestige, guests, like Paul skins and Nick
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  Peg you had life and bottom Leon we have.
• 3:57
  Yeah, it's lovely. We love later on.
• 3:59
  Actually, lots of record with. He's a beautiful man and very
• 4:03
  erudite's very clever. Just yeah, the perfect podcast.
• 4:08
  Host really have to get one some time then.
• 4:11
  Yeah, you should try recording with him yourself.
• 4:14
  Never shut up. Well, I've got a question for
• 4:18
  you. Mmm, what was your first?
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  Doctor Who experience? Well, I'm glad you asked me that
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  glad I'm glad I'm glad too. I'm glad I'm glad that Joe I,
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  because I'm old, I grew up in the 70s and 80s, and I have kind
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  of vague memories of things like parekh rolled little kind of
• 4:43
  Snippets that I can remember and city of death.
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  But the first story I saw from start to finish and I can
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  remember sitting down to watch was The all-time classic known
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  as the horns of nyman the hole, and you never ever look back.
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  That's what I know. I have championed it.
• 5:03
  Well, I said, I'm going to say I've championed it but I've also
• 5:06
  snagged it off as well. It's been a very complex
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  relationship with this story. You alluded to this sort of up
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  and down relationship with the holes of nylon.
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  Well yeah, even go into it. Let's let's.
• 5:16
  All right. Okay, I guess I better therapy
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  now. The yeah I'll just lie back on
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  the couch. Okay.
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  Pants yourself comfortable. That's it.
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  Okay, yeah. So yeah, watching it as a kid, I
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  was just enthralled by it and a bit scared because it is quite
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  creepy and places and then obviously as you get older as a
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  teenager, it's perhaps not quite as cool as some of the other
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  stories that are around it and be embarrassing.
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  If you're trying to be cool hip teenager and then by the time
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  you get to the age, I am now your past, you know, anyone
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  thinking you're cool or having any kind of thoughts of trying
• 5:57
  to have any street cred. So you just tend to enjoy things
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  for what they are. So I've come full circle.
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  It's me well, it's all right if I suppose in it but now I've
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  just come full circle on the and I just adore it.
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  I figured the world that we live in these days it just looking
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  out, the windows are pretty miserable experience.
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  Turning on the news, it's practically suicidal.
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  Yeah that if for an hour and a half I can watch I am crowd and
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  camping out up exactly why. I don't tell Micah thinking limb
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  on this board. I'll squirt out a new way of.
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  I've been watching the infosec. I can tell you all the bits that
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  he's are. You can probably tell me that
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  this is made up on the Fly. Oh, I don't know.
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  I'm not. I've, you're the expert.
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  Joe, I'm just here for the ride. This are you now?
• 6:45
  Well, buckle up that big dumb. Buckle up, I think everyone
• 7:10
  else. B movies were massive in my
• 7:24
  house. So sort of Doctor Who was
• 7:27
  tailor-made for me. It was done a bit on the cheap
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  and it was a bit over the top at time.
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  So, yeah, I was drawn to this stuff.
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  Let's went out over Christmas 79.
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  So this was perfect in terms of that aspect of it.
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  It stops who equivalent of like the Eastern end of Pier
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  Christmas. Absolutely.
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  Absolutely. But I do want to say, I think
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  this is pretty clever. The story.
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  I think there's a lot of smarts in here as well.
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  And I also think that some of the design deficiencies are
• 8:02
  deliberate. What I get into that as we talk
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  from K. All right, well, you know what?
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  Should we pop into episode 1? Yeah, let's do it.
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  Honestly, I'm so it's so distracted by your insane,
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  flirtations. That's what we're here to do.
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  What are you counting? All right.
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  Then I have my Blu-ray ready to go on part one.
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  You remember at this point we okay, you be careful about what
• 8:30
  you're saying. Alright.
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  Because I can't edit a thing. No, no, I shan't say anything
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  controversial. Please do.
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  So if you're already let's get it.
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  Ready and five or three, two, one.
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  Okay, to ask you this question because this your first time on
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  here, my mother gets asked a lot because I have repeat guests all
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  the time. But is this the best title
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  sequence? And if not what is no?
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  It is. It's by far the best and this is
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  the last time we get to see it. Because this is the final story
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  of season 17 and after that it's all change it shouldn't have
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  been because it was going to be harder but yeah, this is it's
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  the last time it gets to this glorious.
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  Beautiful opening credits. What's your number two?
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  Then that's personal. Oh I don't know I think I got a
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  lot of love for the original one.
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  The harmelin so good. Yeah okay so here we have the
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  Fabulous. Malcolm Terrace pilot.
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  Yes, what a character. What can you say?
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  I mean, this set looks. Slightly thrown together, you
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  know, sorry ramshackle way, but it's kind of believable as a.
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  I mean that's the whole idea, isn't it?
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  It's an Empire that's in Decline assets.
• 9:54
  Best precisely, a lot of people part of these sets of the say,
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  you know, it looks a bit ropey than I do.
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  Think there is an element here of sort of creatively.
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  Explaining why? The show looks so cheap.
• 10:08
  Yeah. What if you can do that and get
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  away with it and they kind of do here.
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  Absolutely. Yeah.
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  So he's You could argue that the the copilot is a tad.
• 10:20
  OneNote. Hmm, weakling scum.
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  However, y'all could probably sure I'm not gonna spend this
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  entire story like defense forever.
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  Every terrible thing but this is supposed to be a race of sort of
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  impotent old men. Hmm.
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  In a past, its best militaristic Empire.
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  Yeah. How else is he going to play
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  that? He's got a play, it sort of
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  deadly seriously without one wink of humor.
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  Now, I love it. And I think he does a really
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  great job because he is literally the example of why
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  this Society. It's in Decline, so he takes the
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  time to go out into the the other room shout weaklings.
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  Come and then come back in again.
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  Well, you've got a son then you do that on a regular basis.
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  Now he's the one shouting at me. What do you think of the costume
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  choices? In this one?
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  Joe I've got at least I think it is.
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  Yeah, did I have to ask that question?
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  Well, she is ubiquitous in this I think the word operatic is
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  said more than once in the commentary.
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  Yeah. Bolt.
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  And particularly the Nathan's outfits are I'm going to say
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  curtain material. Yeah.
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  But then she likes a bit of that.
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  And she look at the Argo Limbs. And oh, yeah.
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  The way though, she sort of has Seth and he has his current
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  material nicely open like yeah, I think that was a deliberate.
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  Choice, wasn't it very handsome? Whereas these costumes here for
• 12:00
  the scholars went to a party once you know where everyone was
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  dressed up a bit like this. As I thing in sort of late 70s,
• 12:09
  Doctor Who think of those guards in Creature from the pit more,
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  you know, the guards, the underworld as sort of gimp Chic
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  there was someone kinky in the design Department.
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  Yeah, we have seen the most extreme examples yet, have we?
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  We'll come to that later in the story eyebrows.
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  Yeah, yeah, look at the acting here.
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  Oh my God. Hey, that's that one.
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  Sacrifice with the, the bleach blond curly hair is.
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  I mean, I'm sure they went on to really great things later, but
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  it's I need you to all the best acting identify the sex of each
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  one of those. They're very Do you know this is
• 12:56
  the far future where beyond all that kind of stuff we did that
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  would be marvelous. Now, there's a sequence in a
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  second. Okay?
• 13:08
  Argument with my girlfriend who did this for two, or to the
• 13:10
  other day. Okay, the doctors faffing about
• 13:12
  the console, right? It's all.
• 13:13
  Yeah, I mean now well and it's all in pieces and you get Bing
• 13:17
  Bong noises and it's all right. So there's a lot and it's going
• 13:21
  in his episode of to assure. This is a pointless sequence.
• 13:25
  Know this lot. This is our into story is, the
• 13:28
  TARDIS has? Yeah it's adrift in space is
• 13:31
  going to collide with that shoe. This is It's a actually quite an
• 13:35
  interesting way into the story. Yeah.
• 13:37
  Change. I do.
• 13:38
  Absolutely. No.
• 13:39
  You're absolutely right. And Mark is wrong.
• 13:41
  Sorry. Mark, actually comes to the
• 13:44
  ground, William stuff. Yeah, yeah.
• 13:48
  I feel like it's an under loved hero of the show but how much is
• 13:52
  Tom Baker. Winging it here.
• 13:55
  A. Yeah, I mean he's got to that
• 13:57
  point now where he can really do whatever he likes.
• 14:01
  And that can be good and that can be not so good.
• 14:04
  Oh wow. Look at Lala here.
• 14:06
  I'll tell you so that she looking for whatever they like
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  as Lala walked me right now. I'm a boy.
• 14:14
  She really does. Yeah, now I've always been more
• 14:17
  of a merry time fan but yeah, she really does.
• 14:21
  Look the part now. Now, are you to try and
• 14:24
  determine this he talking about? Looks here.
• 14:26
  Are you talking about the two companions?
• 14:29
  I'm a very shallow person. I'm He's talking about who I
• 14:33
  find the most attractive. You're a shower works.
• 14:35
  Good thing. You're on this podcast said.
• 14:36
  Yeah, but what about in terms of 2's character I think they're
• 14:44
  both very strong, really both the the incarnations I think
• 14:48
  she's really come into her own. By the end of this season.
• 14:51
  I'm not sure. She quite I think she's trying
• 14:53
  to play as Mary time to begin with.
• 14:55
  I think she didn't said that herself in interviews creature
• 14:57
  for the pier where? Yeah, yeah you guys, I feel
• 15:01
  sweaty Little Men. By the time you get to the end
• 15:04
  of the season, I think she's really.
• 15:07
  She owns that part now. Okay, this is the point where
• 15:10
  the body is brought out so much to like, right?
• 15:12
  The doctors. Got a point at the There's going
• 15:14
  to be absolute Blackness. Can we achieve that?
• 15:18
  Yes, we can. Well, I think the thing is it's
• 15:21
  well, documented, that grain Williams had that issue where
• 15:26
  the conflation was going crazy. The he'd be given an amount of
• 15:30
  money at the start of the season and that would turn out to be
• 15:34
  worth. Absolutely nothing.
• 15:35
  By the time, they got to the end. and there are other
• 15:39
  examples of where, that's May things come across over.
• 15:43
  I'm looking at you, underworld, but this season.
• 15:48
  Ironically he really tried to get a handle on that and saved
• 15:52
  up all his money for Sharda. And of course it all went
• 15:56
  pear-shaped through reasons that he couldn't control.
• 15:59
  Yeah, she's a shame. And that then should end on
• 16:05
  having. This is a damn script but Ending
• 16:07
  by the way, that was one of the first pieces of Tom Baker giving
• 16:12
  came after mouth was not. Now I'm not surprised by what's
• 16:18
  the other bit that you do you imagine there's one other bit
• 16:21
  with canine? Oh God.
• 16:23
  I'm trying to remember now only watch this.
• 16:26
  Well a couple of days ago to try and remind myself it's the
• 16:30
  rosette, how come Yeah, that's not in the script.
• 16:34
  However no I don't think Eddie. But by who by all accounts was a
• 16:39
  very amiable man. The capable director but I don't
• 16:42
  think he was strong enough to say, Tom that's absurd.
• 16:46
  We're not doing. no, and but the thing is, I suppose, I don't
• 16:54
  know. I'm with this story.
• 16:57
  I am just so biased that I just love it so much.
• 17:02
  I'm willing to forgive that kind of nonsense just because he is
• 17:07
  so much fun. Do you think there's something
• 17:09
  in the fact that because this has such like personal space to
• 17:13
  use your first story? It's the first one, you
• 17:16
  remember. So because there's some stories
• 17:18
  that I know a pony. I watched when I was younger you
• 17:22
  have an attack. Ouch, my bowels.
• 17:24
  I absolutely just ingrained into me as a child.
• 17:27
  Absolutely adores. Like death to the Daleks the
• 17:29
  score to that. Yeah.
• 17:30
  The best bit of music I've ever heard in my life, you know.
• 17:35
  And I know, here we go. Is the Sydney Opera House?
• 17:39
  Well, I could just see you wear one of those, you know, I her
• 17:42
  get away with that. Well, maybe my younger days.
• 17:44
  Yeah, come out as sold. Eat, you know, staff.
• 17:47
  Yeah. Boy the outfit already and yeah.
• 17:53
  A lot of it says he's got his magic wand, I really is that I
• 17:57
  mean he's totally a parent, o villain know.
• 17:59
  Absolutely absolutely. And We've just recently watched
• 18:07
  for our show Tomb of the Cybermen and Maurice Perry.
• 18:12
  I think was quite sad that they hadn't been able to go in and
• 18:15
  dub the steps into the tomb because they sounded very wood.
• 18:19
  And he'd liked the sound like metal and clanky, I think he
• 18:23
  should have swapped Kenny McBain because they've got clanky sets
• 18:26
  all over the place whether you want them or not.
• 18:28
  It's a weird thing, right? It's a weird trailer because it
• 18:30
  happens in terms of this as well, doesn't it?
• 18:32
  Yeah, that's what clanking all over the sand.
• 18:36
  Because it is realistic because that's what it would sound like.
• 18:39
  Yeah, you just don't want that noise.
• 18:41
  All over your TV show. Absolutely not.
• 18:44
  Surely this is exciting for kids, you know, the time is
• 18:47
  right. - yeah. And then in a minute where he
• 18:50
  gets to do like the the like Corridor between the Tardis?
• 18:53
  Yes, I don't think I'm sliding down it.
• 19:00
  Gotta love these guys together. I'm here, look at them.
• 19:03
  And obviously at this point there's still Very friendly
• 19:08
  whereas at times during season 18 you can tell the ones where
• 19:11
  they're not getting on because they don't look at each other.
• 19:14
  They can't even make I call the days where they're fucking and
• 19:17
  you can tell the damn about a blistering Rao in the morning.
• 19:21
  Over coffee or whatever. Yeah.
• 19:22
  Yeah. I don't think that's a terrible
• 19:26
  effect shot now. I think it's really good.
• 19:29
  Oh yeah. This is - 79 the budget is
• 19:33
  minimal. I think it works.
• 19:35
  Did you see what he said to her then leave and she went out.
• 19:38
  Well, duh of dogs are just I love each other, like it's so
• 19:42
  wonderful and that's when I was skipping ahead a lot here, but
• 19:46
  that's a while. I remember the final shot of the
• 19:49
  story is her. Well, you see a still life in
• 19:53
  the old girl? Thank you doctor.
• 19:56
  I love that. Not you, the time she pulls
• 20:01
  that. It's like compare that to sort
• 20:03
  of head into the 80s where everyone.
• 20:04
  Yeah, just constant growling. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 20:11
  I mean, don't get me wrong. I love Janet Fielding in every
• 20:14
  conceivable way, but, you know, if you're having that crap of a
• 20:19
  time, just just go. Where is this?
• 20:22
  It feels like they love being in each other's company and they're
• 20:26
  having a great time. And then what I like about the
• 20:30
  story, then it splits, the two of them are Ramana heads with
• 20:33
  the sacrifices, their doctor follows.
• 20:35
  Also both got their own sort of, strands of the story and you
• 20:40
  sort of gets a piece together. What's going on?
• 20:42
  Yeah. Through the two of them I just I
• 20:44
  just think that it's a smart, a script that people give it
• 20:46
  credit. Yeah, yeah.
• 20:48
  I mean Anthony reads. He really had a hell of a task
• 20:52
  greeted me because he was the script editor took over from
• 20:56
  Robert Holmes. It's all about Big act to follow
• 21:00
  and then he handed over to Douglas Adams for this series
• 21:05
  and enough time has passed, that.
• 21:07
  He felt. It was okay for him to submit a
• 21:10
  story in this was the story. The people always say that they,
• 21:13
  that 17 is like the wittiest year, but I think 16, I can see
• 21:19
  his hand in every script is absolutely really funny dialogue
• 21:22
  for our sins now, here we go. Apparently, the doctor sort of
• 21:27
  being as kind. Disease to the kids was a little
• 21:30
  bit of Tom Baker improvisation as well because he's growing on
• 21:33
  its yeah. What do you think you like a
• 21:35
  Jelly Baby? Every doctors pretty good with
• 21:37
  kids. Yeah.
• 21:41
  Maybe I'll call in so much of a color.
• 21:43
  You can imagine him getting a bit grumpy and that's what
• 21:46
  smacking a kid around the edge. Yeah, stop stop.
• 21:49
  Sleep eating the same word over about three times.
• 21:54
  It's very sad because oh God, I can't remember his name.
• 21:57
  The other fellow place is it? Someone keeps Kennedy who plays
• 22:01
  Seth right passed away, 10 years or so after this.
• 22:08
  I really. Yeah, through drug misuse.
• 22:11
  Oh no. And I'm not going to say the
• 22:16
  John Lovin thing but it is marvelous that we can see him,
• 22:19
  you know? Yeah.
• 22:21
  Yeah. He's great.
• 22:22
  Malice and boy. Could she cannot resist bringing
• 22:26
  up Sophie ellis-bextor and that common story.
• 22:28
  I'll tell my daughter Sophie. She's I think what a few times.
• 22:32
  Hey, wouldn't you be proud? If you had a daughter like her,
• 22:34
  I'd be proud of item of like Janet Ellis.
• 22:36
  Yeah, it's a blue. Peter presenter.
• 22:38
  Yeah. Well, I was young enough at the
• 22:39
  time to see her as a one of the presenters.
• 22:42
  Good, I'm old now. Where our dad came out drathro.
• 22:46
  Yeah. Hello, Paul.
• 22:48
  Cheers. But like, so, essentially safe
• 22:55
  and T car, like the human interest in this, aren't they?
• 22:58
  Yes, guest characters that we're supposed to give a shit about,
• 23:01
  that's right. And you'll notice a certain
• 23:03
  point in the story there's that separation where all of the kind
• 23:07
  of people who don't really know quite which way to look and keep
• 23:10
  looking into the camera and looking a bit quizzical or not.
• 23:14
  Quite getting the whole after of, you need to act.
• 23:17
  When you're on screen, they get separated off into the ladder
• 23:20
  and then the two bunny ears actors then end up with Tom and
• 23:25
  Lala. Have you seen blue Pisa lately?
• 23:28
  Not for a long time. Okay, well now they do it all
• 23:31
  inside the studio audience, right?
• 23:32
  But they have all these kids on behind them and it's just like
• 23:35
  this none of them. What's going on.
• 23:37
  They're all sort of waving their mom and dad, okay?
• 23:40
  It's just like holes are not. Know how am I watching now we'd
• 23:44
  like See, our Doctor, Who here. Mmm, the copilot, every word
• 23:49
  out. Yeah.
• 23:51
  And you make it work, I gotta work tomorrow.
• 23:57
  So it's come to everyone. We can say, did you say that
• 24:02
  fellow there with the curly hair just sort of?
• 24:04
  Yeah. Oh yeah.
• 24:06
  I think we might be in trouble that poor man there.
• 24:14
  Beginning, I believe he's just called the pilot.
• 24:16
  Hmm, he played my for awful, big side.
• 24:21
  When he is this Carl Kennedy's dad, in laborers, the three and
• 24:25
  out of town. No, he's a struggling actor.
• 24:28
  He's actually had a very impressive career fall stretches
• 24:31
  Beyond horns of my mom. Okay, I mean obviously, the peak
• 24:37
  Malcolm terrorists as well. Can you tell me what other story
• 24:41
  Malcolm Terrace appears in? Oh God.
• 24:44
  Hey Mom, I'm a bad fan. I can't remember Doctor Who fan.
• 24:50
  I know the cards now. It's the dominators know.
• 24:56
  He's one of the people that goes on Kylie's Fabulous Adventure,
• 24:59
  at the beginning, and gets murdered by the quartz.
• 25:01
  Another one where they were. Currents is outfits into
• 25:06
  Classics. Yeah.
• 25:08
  Oh yeah. How did I, how did I play these
• 25:13
  things out? It costumes on.
• 25:16
  I've got a bit of a diversion here.
• 25:18
  Go on our show, we were doing mission to the unknown.
• 25:23
  And we had a lovely guest called Deb who came on and she is
• 25:26
  talking about, this is in the height of lockdown, and she
• 25:29
  said, oh yeah, I've been helping this elderly lady and I've been
• 25:32
  making sure she's okay and dropping groceries around for,
• 25:36
  and we have a bit of a chat, and she talking about how, oh, yes,
• 25:41
  we got to go and visit the the Studio's when they're making
• 25:44
  Doctor Who I think it was in the 60s.
• 25:46
  And she said to him. Yeah, they showed us because
• 25:50
  they were all interested in like the costuming side of things.
• 25:53
  So the person behind the scenes were showing so, yes, we put an
• 25:56
  extra Pocket in here because the, the person playing the
• 26:01
  villain once somebody to put cigarettes and they were kind of
• 26:06
  thinking and explaining to Deb that they thought it might be
• 26:10
  the master or something. And then they start talking
• 26:13
  about the Minotaur and my ears just suddenly Like prick up.
• 26:17
  I'm like what? And of course they're talking
• 26:20
  about Graham crowd ins outfit in wanted diamonds, so they went
• 26:24
  and visited the set when they're making horns of neyman.
• 26:28
  They were interested in the costumes.
• 26:29
  So yeah well it's me Marie more interesting than this one.
• 26:32
  Has a lovely bit of business coming up now where he goes hand
• 26:44
  of the Sonic Screwdriver and somehow no, it's okay.
• 26:46
  I've got Own many lives today. Yeah, it's very good in.
• 26:50
  Tried to hand her back. His love it.
• 26:53
  I've done that with a dildo. Get out, so I can shut up.
• 26:58
  Yours is more impressive. I'll keep it if it's good enough
• 27:03
  for Steven Moffat. All right.
• 27:04
  Yeah. I've got three eight, three
• 27:06
  speed settings. Yeah, Ramon are basically being
• 27:12
  the diocese. Our first female doctor.
• 27:14
  I have asked this question before, but I want to hear you.
• 27:16
  Take, I think you can just, you can have a strong female
• 27:20
  character, she doesn't have to be the doctor, she can just be a
• 27:22
  kick-ass female character, why not?
• 27:25
  But I think she, I can take her far more seriously than hearing
• 27:28
  this. Do you think the comparisons
• 27:30
  made? Because she's Another Time,
• 27:31
  Lord. Do you think anyone would make
• 27:34
  the same sort of comparison if it was a regular human who took
• 27:37
  Center Stage? I think maybe because she's
• 27:40
  treated as an equal because she dresses like the doctor.
• 27:42
  Yeah, I'm coat and scarf because as we get a similar thing with
• 27:48
  Clara told me, she kind of He's raising his, I have a happy
• 27:55
  place in heaven where he put her in the title sequence.
• 27:59
  Don't even go there. Did you love it?
• 28:04
  It was a surprise at the time was what?
• 28:07
  Oh my God look at canine covered in to take.
• 28:10
  It is like he's going to a fake covered in bunting.
• 28:12
  Here he goes. That's just a The Briley.
• 28:16
  This is his last time as canine. Is he marvelously Camp.
• 28:20
  David Briley. Mmm.
• 28:22
  My professor is. Do you mean he's not gonna
• 28:26
  listen? Yeah, you got your ID on you.
• 28:29
  I don't think it's bad. Why does nobody ever prepare
• 28:32
  David Briley? Kept my co hope podcast co-host
• 28:36
  Jack Shanahan. I don't know, I don't know.
• 28:41
  I know it's nothing is nothing wrong with his performance at
• 28:43
  all. I think he inherits the
• 28:45
  character but I just don't think it's quite.
• 28:48
  There's that certain magic that John Mason brings to it.
• 28:52
  I've been obviously told her Sly Heart Like That canine and we
• 28:56
  sort of come to the conclusion that after the Armageddon
• 28:58
  Factor. He's not really given a
• 29:01
  particularly strong role in. Any story he saw even more down
• 29:05
  or just uses a gun or screen out completely, that's that
• 29:10
  coincides with David Bradley taking on the role.
• 29:13
  Yeah, last Briley Lord. No, I'm on it.
• 29:18
  She's I sold. He'd suck.
• 29:21
  He's in the room - I'm sorry. He was saying, like what?
• 29:29
  Apparently, please always interrupt with quote, always Or
• 29:33
  anything else. Briley didn't go to the
• 29:37
  rehearsals didn't didn't stomp about on the floor like John
• 29:41
  Leeson didn't have the relationship with the actors now
• 29:44
  so I'm wondering if there's if there's a little distance there.
• 29:46
  Yeah. Sex as well.
• 29:49
  Yeah. Who knows what about this said?
• 29:51
  Top of the pops bring it in their special equipment as
• 29:53
  slowing down the speed of just suggest that we're in a black
• 29:58
  hole. I mean you could argue that they
• 30:00
  pinch some of the other set design from top of the pops
• 30:02
  you've got those Lights that are draped over some of the
• 30:08
  equipment and a bit later in the story.
• 30:09
  It looks very much like a sort of school disco effort.
• 30:14
  Yeah. Are you agree?
• 30:16
  Well, they did that a couple of times in a row.
• 30:17
  That's second to doctors when they running through that,
• 30:21
  that's the sort of. Oh, yeah.
• 30:25
  And also in, oh, is it snake dance?
• 30:29
  They use the set from a song for Europe, the spiral staircase,
• 30:35
  terrific as well. Do you sympathize with people
• 30:38
  then that do look at this and go?
• 30:39
  Actually, this is cheap and it's silly and it's Not worth much.
• 30:45
  I mean, Everyone's entitled to their opinion, their wrong
• 30:48
  obviously, but I dunno, I just think for me, this possibly goes
• 30:54
  a little bit over the top, but I like my doctor who to be fun and
• 30:57
  I think it's always the belt ones that really work.
• 31:02
  The best are the ones that are have, that sort of the fun
• 31:06
  aspect, but also their horror aspect as well within our Erp is
• 31:10
  is absolute gold. Really do love You have a
• 31:14
  terribly stressful day at work. Yeah.
• 31:16
  You and I both in retail so we know that is undisclosed retail
• 31:21
  but retailers and you come home and I've never really are God.
• 31:27
  You know what, I'm really in the mood to watch, Heavens sin or
• 31:30
  Genesis of the Daleks and watch later with that girl in the
• 31:32
  middle. She's just sorry.
• 31:33
  She just like I'm looking all over the place.
• 31:37
  I don't really know what I'm doing.
• 31:39
  The one in the middle between, oh, I can tell what her sex is.
• 31:43
  saying hood, but it might be, he Don't object if I am please Jo
• 31:49
  how dare you say that for say, oh I love lol award in a minute
• 31:57
  when she's like tan back. Yeah she really lives the shit
• 32:02
  in the store is great. Only when she's angry, she looks
• 32:06
  fabulous. Doesn't she?
• 32:07
  I would look what's going on here that you got that they're
• 32:10
  heading into a black hole. Yeah, it's asteroids stuck to
• 32:13
  the side of the TARDIS. Is it?
• 32:15
  I thought his dog, poof? I thought it was wrong.
• 32:17
  Squarespace. Okay.
• 32:22
  Malcolm Terrace a lalla. Ward is a match, made in hell.
• 32:25
  Yeah. Then I'm on a waits for no man.
• 32:40
  That Bloody triangular wall that turns up in everything.
• 32:43
  Like oh yeah, done it. Just attrex.
• 32:45
  Bedroom is Sky based on the reason why this is a classic.
• 32:48
  And, you know, unless you've got that try and get a wall hanging
• 32:51
  Classic, this is a very typical. You do really sort of Doctor Who
• 32:55
  thing to save it. No, some of these geometric
• 32:57
  shapes in the Williams here are these triangles everywhere.
• 33:00
  Hmm. But now you pointed our ha ha
• 33:04
  ha. Yeah, you should look scared.
• 33:09
  I think it out. No, scythes, you look sweaty,
• 33:11
  real thoughts on the, the name on costume, wouldn't what do we
• 33:14
  make of that? It's holy as hell and I love it.
• 33:18
  Do I, I like the ballistic movement.
• 33:20
  I feel like it's very web Planet.
• 33:22
  There's a stable attic. You mean, they put in her arms
• 33:24
  out, so they don't topple over on those massive platforms.
• 33:27
  Excuse me. That's how I walk and I consider
• 33:29
  it, but let's say it's fun. You're not wearing a
• 33:32
  papier-mâché, a head over top of your own one, where you can't
• 33:34
  see, Not do one that apparently even said in the scripts that
• 33:38
  it's so hideous, what's underneath?
• 33:40
  And that's why they wear those masks on the top, okay?
• 33:43
  Then the script never goes on to explain that everything.
• 33:50
  I mean it works for me as a kid as a six-year-old.
• 33:52
  I was suitably scared. Obviously, we've grown up eyes.
• 33:56
  You can perhaps look at them and they are at a laughable but it's
• 34:01
  all part of fun. I love it.
• 34:04
  The loop we can ask For episode, say it's all part of the fun, it
• 34:10
  killed last mean, I could then what a little bit like, what do
• 34:13
  you think about the monsters in 17 in general though?
• 34:19
  So we've got the mandrels with their sort of very flexible
• 34:24
  arms. I love you and I think they're
• 34:27
  so I like the heads again, though.
• 34:28
  I like that. Yeah.
• 34:30
  The glowing green eyes? Yeah, that's a really cool
• 34:32
  design. What about the singularly?
• 34:34
  Most like monster are also. I mean, where Tom blows down.
• 34:42
  The river is this. That's, that's quite a memorable
• 34:46
  moment. I got the wolf weeds, of course,
• 34:49
  thought they were pretty cool. That's actually quite a clever.
• 34:52
  Bit, design are very cool and then we never got see the Crocs
• 34:56
  did we, but that you do see one brief?
• 34:58
  Yeah. The shoulder that exists.
• 35:00
  Pretty cool. And then weird, you think that I
• 35:04
  will fall dead in comparison to all the others had?
• 35:08
  I think well I think everything in this season is going to fall
• 35:12
  behind city of death, isn't it? Mmm, it's just that's how it is
• 35:18
  but I think I put them in the upper echelon.
• 35:22
  So this season, I think it's interesting that every monster
• 35:27
  has a unique USP in this sense. You've got the Daleks and a
• 35:31
  villains in that logical. And you've gots caref splintered
• 35:35
  through time. You've got the creature.
• 35:38
  Who's technically the good guy? Yeah, you've got the mandrels
• 35:43
  which are drugs. Yeah, Chris are.
• 35:46
  Sorry, I don't have a somewhat. Just say no kids.
• 35:48
  I do apologize. Just sleep and then you've got
• 35:53
  the knife. I wonder where there's a lot of
• 35:55
  the twit I've are we supposed to believe through 123 that there
• 35:57
  is only one I think so. Yeah license.
• 36:01
  What solji did things? Yeah.
• 36:03
  Yeah. I mean I had a very similar
• 36:05
  impression when two more popped out.
• 36:08
  So I look absolutely horrified. And okay, what did you think of
• 36:12
  that cliffhanger? Ahh.
• 36:16
  I mean, it's It's exciting that we've established that the
• 36:22
  defense shields are down. The meteor is coming towards the
• 36:27
  Tardis. The doctor is hugging canine as
• 36:29
  always about to die. I mean, that's what more could
• 36:32
  you want, okay. Is it is well devised.
• 36:37
  I just don't think it's very well directed.
• 36:39
  It's just like a table. Just do something.
• 36:42
  Yeah, I think how many times have you looked at Classic
• 36:47
  stories Cliffhangers and they don't always some of the
• 36:51
  greatest ones. That really stick in the memory
• 36:54
  still. Don't stick The Landing when you
• 36:56
  get to the next part because the way they get out of, it is not
• 37:00
  always that impressive. So you know, As a six-year-old,
• 37:07
  I was enthralled. I wanted to know what happened
• 37:09
  next, but yeah, it's not, it's not going to stand out in the in
• 37:14
  the list of the 100 greatest Cliffhangers.
• 37:18
  You give me an example of one of the greatest ones that don't
• 37:21
  stick The Landing afterwards. Oh, I think of a few I pretty
• 37:26
  put me on the spot now. All that, like is third 06.
• 37:29
  My tell you, I tell you one, one that I remember cuts a bit more
• 37:33
  recently. I've watched it is in the
• 37:35
  rescue. Sorry, Jeff, if you listening
• 37:38
  tonight? Yeah, the spikes.
• 37:40
  Yeah, with a sword that come out, the wall was like, oh my
• 37:43
  God, he's gonna get all that OE, just sidesteps.
• 37:48
  Yeah. So that's, that's a pretty,
• 37:50
  pretty good, example. Well, I'm taking to Twitter now.
• 37:55
  Hmm. Because a number of people have
• 37:57
  apparently halls and I want is as a popular talking point.
• 38:00
  I'm just so as it should be, Gavin asks, if Tom had been kept
• 38:07
  more in check with the rest of the cars.
• 38:09
  Have responded. With less Ott performances, mr.
• 38:12
  Crowder, I'm looking at. Yeah, I think that is a fair
• 38:16
  point. I've seen interviews with
• 38:19
  Douglas Adams, where he has expressed a bit of sadness that
• 38:27
  when he Incorporated humor into the scripts, he had envisaged
• 38:33
  that the actors would be taking it deadly.
• 38:35
  Seriously and that the the humor would undercut it to give the
• 38:41
  like her. Flourish if humor whereas what
• 38:47
  seemed to happen was the actors would look at the script and
• 38:49
  just go oh that's funny. Let's really Camp it up and
• 38:53
  let's really go over the top and give it 20 out of 10 but you
• 38:59
  know it's no. Like how could you possibly
• 39:02
  under play a role like sold it? I mean even Tom Baker who's very
• 39:07
  fond of going over the top. Even here you can tell by the
• 39:11
  time we get to the ones where they share screen time.
• 39:12
  I'm it just look at him thinking I can't compete with this.
• 39:16
  I'm just gonna have to try a different method.
• 39:18
  Organ optic. Oh, like play it a bit more cool
• 39:21
  because there's no way you can top that.
• 39:23
  Well, it was, is that the commentary?
• 39:24
  She said this shit. He had grudging respect for
• 39:27
  granted because he managed to steal the screening from him.
• 39:31
  Yeah, the great crowd and was, was the first pick to be the
• 39:35
  Fourth Doctor's. And he hear that, he talks about
• 39:38
  that on the course. He's on the Cabinetry ground
• 39:40
  crannies, fly higher, but that's all I was moderating and she
• 39:44
  asked him about that. He says, yeah, he didn't want to
• 39:47
  do it for a couple of reasons. One, he was told to be Typecast.
• 39:51
  Hmm, yo, the de facto answer, I mean, him playing matters.
• 39:55
  Batshit crazy. People is, you know, he never
• 39:58
  played another mad person again. Did he?
• 40:02
  I'm looking at, you, waiting for God when he does that ostrich
• 40:07
  impression, going out. Stephanie: just ignore him.
• 40:14
  I love Stephanie. She would have made a good
• 40:19
  doctor back in the day. Oh, she would have been
• 40:21
  brilliant little one Doctor Who story she's been in as well or
• 40:24
  two. Now she's played by seed in the
• 40:26
  shin that Palm I'll say oh yeah, she did a big finish which is
• 40:29
  what a great actress. Hmm.
• 40:34
  Someone actually dropped me. Once that Stephanie Cole said
• 40:40
  that she actually had been approached Around pea Davison's
• 40:44
  departure and had a conversation with jayanti about it.
• 40:47
  Wow, that's a lot of my old old episodes.
• 40:51
  It's a sort of a theater lovey that I had on, who knew
• 40:54
  everybody, and that's true or not, but it's I'd like to
• 40:59
  believe it was got possibilities.
• 41:02
  Gavin also asked, plus did all that hairy chest on display from
• 41:05
  ceph make, Janice Ellis switch to Kids TV.
• 41:11
  I think you'll probably better suited to us.
• 41:12
  Answer that one Joe. Oh I think it certainly didn't
• 41:17
  make her days work. Any less enjoyable.
• 41:19
  Now I can imagine to see it. Yeah I'll leave that one there.
• 41:24
  This was my favorite question. We got off so I'm going to drop
• 41:26
  it. Okay.
• 41:27
  Tom knows who else would it work better with a studio audience.
• 41:41
  Between crowden and Tom Baker in in F.
• 41:44
  So to, you know, digging a black hole of with builders in fits of
• 41:50
  laughter. I think it work a true.
• 41:54
  I think I saw somewhere just Googling on 291 that it was put
• 42:01
  in a top ten list of Doctor Who stories that would make the best
• 42:05
  musical on the stage. Imagine.
• 42:09
  Yes, but have Pavarotti instead of grime.
• 42:13
  Crowded Scott, All Shall arise. Oh my God, you'll be gone up for
• 42:20
  yourself. Amazing.
• 42:26
  Okay. Darryl it roundels.
• 42:28
  Ask is this the cheapest looking story of the 1970s I'm going to
• 42:34
  say, One title underworld. I was gonna say the same thing.
• 42:42
  Yeah. Yeah whilst its innovative in
• 42:44
  what it's trying to do. Yeah, I mean, if they had a
• 42:48
  choice of do we go completely CSO or do we just spin that
• 42:53
  story and not make it Some would argue they probably made the
• 42:57
  wrong decision that choice of Warriors of the Dave should do.
• 43:00
  We do our election. So do we make worries of the
• 43:04
  deep early? That's the worst thing she ever
• 43:06
  did missiles nothing. She got the green paint was
• 43:14
  still wet on the burqa, that bitch.