Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Robert Valentine about his choice of The Greatest Show in the Galaxy (2/4)

Transcript

Talks to Robert Valentine about his choice of The Greatest Show in the Galaxy (2/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  I'm so drunk. Hello, and welcome back to a
• 0:41
  hamster with a blunt penknife manager Valentine.
• 0:44
  I'm this week's guest. And that's not a bad intro.
• 0:49
  Is it Joe? That was okay, good.
• 0:51
  Oh, all right, look, I've got a question for you.
• 0:54
  Oh yes. I just remembered.
• 0:56
  Yeah, I've got a question for you.
• 0:58
  Well, my one I will ask first. Okay.
• 1:03
  Yeah, the opening the the hamster opening theme do you,
• 1:07
  sing it? Nice.
• 1:09
  Oh no it's an old old friend of mine who listen to like the
• 1:14
  first batch and he was like this just starts.
• 1:17
  You need an intro to this and he literally knocked it up in half
• 1:22
  a day. He did it really really quickly
• 1:24
  and people tell me it's irritatingly catchy Phi 1.
• 1:28
  Now I know I thought it was I thought it was you I hate he's
• 1:33
  an Australian. There's an Australian voice but
• 1:36
  he did a great job though. Honestly.
• 1:38
  He's very good. Well who What's his name?
• 1:42
  Oh my God. Remember, it's not
• 1:54
  very good but now I'm still going to imagine.
• 1:57
  It's you anyway. Thank you your question?
• 2:00
  Yes, I've got a question for you.
• 2:01
  Yeah, so this is from Daniel night and he asked, is this the
• 2:05
  best example of J and T's guest star policy?
• 2:08
  He goes on to list TP me. Kenna Peggy Mount, Jessica
• 2:12
  Martin Christopher guard Chris Drury D, Sadler and Jan's Marco.
• 2:18
  What do you think and Rica, Ross?
• 2:20
  Ricky, Ross, because Jonas Rica Jonesy's, Rick, Ross, anyway.
• 2:23
  Yeah, I would say no, it isn't I would say this is just, this
• 2:29
  isn't, this is just a legitimately brilliantly cast
• 2:33
  episode. It's not, I wouldn't, I wouldn't
• 2:36
  classify this in the slightest as gentie in a vertical.
• 2:40
  My stunt casting, these are just bloody good actors cast.
• 2:46
  Absolutely, right. So I'd say no doesn't however to
• 2:50
  say, what I think is of course is Nick.
• 2:52
  It's Nicholas Parsons as Reverend Wainwright in.
• 2:56
  This is Henrik. Because they had expected that
• 3:00
  well, he was an actor first. So I'm all about is just casting
• 3:03
  a bloody good actor, but in that case, that was a kind of week
• 3:06
  until we can tell the radio times and whoever else that
• 3:09
  Nicholas Parsons isn't it, he wouldn't, you know, TP McKenna
• 3:13
  and Peggy Mount. Great actors with huge, great
• 3:16
  pedigree. But then they're not gonna,
• 3:18
  they're not names to conjure with you.
• 3:20
  No. I don't believe they were then
• 3:21
  so I'd say, no, it isn't. But is it, is it perfectly cast
• 3:27
  with Brilliant. Brilliant character actors
• 3:29
  throughout and just a great Supporting Cast in general.
• 3:32
  Yes, it absolutely is because a kind of tipping back to
• 3:35
  Paradise. How is again, I don't think it's
• 3:37
  badly cast by things. Some of the actors are poorly
• 3:41
  directed or not given enough Direction.
• 3:45
  Yeah. With with respect, who is
• 3:47
  casting? I think it's slightly miscast.
• 3:50
  Just in terms of distance. Just in terms of plot, some of
• 3:53
  the ages of some of the characters are about it off but
• 3:57
  Just just just, and also like, how they were described on the
• 4:01
  page to how they were cast. Yes.
• 4:03
  Yeah. So that's Miss casting, that's,
• 4:04
  which is now, which is a, yeah, it's that's yeah.
• 4:07
  It's, which is no reflection on an actor.
• 4:10
  It's literally, it's just like, cooking and picking the wrong
• 4:12
  ingredient. It's like it's, this is a giant.
• 4:16
  He's best bit of as a whole, as like, a story as a whole.
• 4:22
  We're sort of stunt casting hits, you're going to think I'm
• 4:26
  mad and you might fight me. This I think is trial of a Time,
• 4:30
  Lord, as a whole, because I think trial over Tyler's has a
• 4:33
  lot of problems, but I think those actors that he brings in
• 4:38
  Lynda, Bellingham Michael Jason and Brian blessed.
• 4:40
  On a Blackman, the list goes on, Jeffrey Hughes.
• 4:44
  They bring a lot of Worth to that material.
• 4:47
  Yeah, I think with with with like people on a black and
• 4:50
  that's proper. That's kind of good.
• 4:52
  That's guest star. Yes.
• 4:54
  That's it. That's guests.
• 4:55
  Are costing really, isn't it? You know, No there.
• 4:57
  And yeah and Lynda. Bellingham big household.
• 4:59
  Name, Brian blessed. Yeah, that makes.
• 5:03
  Yeah, that makes sense. To me, makes sense to me.
• 5:05
  I'll have this conversation time.
• 5:06
  And again about him. Bring it in, like celebrities to
• 5:10
  your guest, guest starring part. I don't really think nine times
• 5:16
  out of ten. He didn't get it wrong.
• 5:18
  Yeah, it smells doesn't. There's nothing to be honest, is
• 5:21
  nothing out at. There's nothing extraordinary
• 5:22
  about it. Mean, Ken Dodd in Delta and the
• 5:24
  bannermen perfectly cast and the outtake of his death that went
• 5:29
  on and on and on these like, oh yeah.
• 5:31
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 5:31
  But yeah, that's that's what Eddie thinks.
• 5:33
  That's what that's recorded media.
• 5:34
  That's what everything's for. You know, it's his performances
• 5:37
  built in The Cutting Room ultimately or, you know, on the
• 5:40
  mixer in this one. I think War, I'm sorry, I feel
• 5:44
  like you another Point. Go on.
• 5:45
  Oh, No, Just but just in with, with Ken Dodd.
• 5:48
  It's a tiny part but utterly met when I think of Delta and the
• 5:51
  bannermen I can Dodge in his is Li look, sequined suit and hat
• 5:58
  is the first thing. I think of God Gary Russell on
• 6:01
  are a survey and he cites Delta and the bannermen as one of his
• 6:04
  least favorite stories but how he thinks Ken Dodd is perfectly
• 6:08
  cast in that role? Yes.
• 6:09
  Yeah. It's like yeah, that part which
• 6:12
  I would agree with. I did a fabulous down in the
• 6:14
  bottom in Coventry and I would have someone who adores it.
• 6:17
  So It's lovely to spread. Love to stories that are less
• 6:21
  well regarded. Yeah.
• 6:23
  Well true, true. Well, I'll tell you what should
• 6:25
  we see this fabulous cast in action?
• 6:27
  All you press play presently, the you enjoyed this one, so I'm
• 6:31
  going to count it in. In five, four, three, two, one.
• 6:38
  Off we go. What you think about this title
• 6:40
  sequence? It's the one that directively
• 6:43
  speaking. Maybe it isn't the best.
• 6:47
  I maybe the I don't think seeing everyone says, you know, the
• 6:51
  original which I kind of kind of respect that opinion, I say that
• 6:56
  be careful and I feel I feel it's a bit, the Ping I should
• 6:59
  have, but I kind of think the previous one that this is a
• 7:01
  Cyrano the Peter Hale one, you know, come from, from the start
• 7:05
  of the 80s. I think is maybe the one that I
• 7:10
  kind of dig more, but having said all of that, this is the
• 7:14
  theme that I get the pavlovian response from so physically
• 7:17
  physically This is the one this is the one.
• 7:20
  I kind of get a little bit excited, a bit nervous as its
• 7:23
  beginning. There was something scream like
• 7:26
  about it. I so my first doctor's arose
• 7:27
  Battlefield. So this was my first.
• 7:29
  Yeah, yeah. So my to literally gives me all
• 7:33
  the nostalgic. Feels every time I hear it
• 7:36
  regardless as to whether it's any good or not.
• 7:38
  I mean you know get going right back in time death to the Daleks
• 7:41
  was the first VHS I got and you could tell me till you're blue
• 7:44
  in the face of that. Torrid story is shit.
• 7:46
  I'll still love it to Pieces because I played it a million.
• 7:48
  Times when I was a Nipper. Right, here we go.
• 7:52
  So are they going in or aren't they?
• 7:54
  Yes they are. Yes most think that's a.
• 7:58
  We end the ending. Last episode was more of, it was
• 8:00
  more of a, take a breath before we do the thing, we're going to
• 8:02
  do so it's yeah. Not a cliffhanger.
• 8:06
  So how do you feel about the doctor and Ace relationship and
• 8:14
  like ice as a character? On our own.
• 8:20
  Brilliant. And to be honest, I think
• 8:23
  they're the, the best team of the entire decade and I think
• 8:29
  it's that. So why is that?
• 8:32
  Yeah, I'm a maximum of one degree of separation from a lot
• 8:42
  of people in them. So I became what I say, but I
• 8:45
  actually don't know. They just the best, they are the
• 8:47
  bet the big cock because none of the Those are quite as good.
• 8:50
  They just conceptually their relationship and the the care
• 8:54
  and attention to their roles in the stories and how they're
• 8:59
  affected by them. And the whole, the whole point,
• 9:02
  the whole idea is planned and the affection they have for each
• 9:05
  other, which is partly performative.
• 9:07
  Its formative not performative. Sorry, no, it's probably in the
• 9:11
  performance. So partly, it's, it's McCoy and
• 9:16
  aldred. He touches her nose.
• 9:20
  Generate she holds on to him. There's, there's a, there's an
• 9:22
  intimacy between them. Yeah.
• 9:24
  Yeah. And but also, it's them, it's
• 9:26
  one of the most interest. It's one of the most interesting
• 9:29
  relationship of the of the decade-- of the decade-- I say,
• 9:33
  I think in the Davison area area.
• 9:36
  They was an area here. There's era.
• 9:38
  Yeah, it's it's too crowded so you don't you can't get you
• 9:43
  can't dig deep because they're you haven't got the the are too.
• 9:47
  It's unfortunate. I think there's something quite
• 9:49
  uncomfortable going on in kind of Baker's ERA with Perry, which
• 9:52
  is a shame because those two actors have great chemistry
• 9:55
  together Columbia. Oh, yeah.
• 9:56
  Yeah, but it's conceptually. It's ugly misogynistic and you
• 9:59
  can't get away from that. You know, you can, you can try
• 10:02
  to excuse it, but you can't. Because what you're watching is,
• 10:06
  I mean, can you imagine Sylvester McCoy trying to
• 10:08
  strangle Sophie aldred? No, but I can imagine.
• 10:12
  So pure its boy but yeah, but no, it's some but they are not.
• 10:16
  They are just they are just wonderful.
• 10:18
  So it's good on paper and it's good as well before and it's
• 10:22
  good in their performances and they're acting.
• 10:24
  It's just it's and it's the most interesting feels like it's that
• 10:28
  it's actually it's a relationship with an intention.
• 10:31
  It's a projects that the doctrine Ace project.
• 10:34
  Let's actually do a series of Adventures exploring.
• 10:36
  This relationship and it feels like it does have a.
• 10:39
  We never see it because the bloody show ends but they it
• 10:43
  feels like a relationship that is actually going somewhere.
• 10:46
  It's an extra layer for all those Nine Stories.
• 10:48
  Isn't it? That we don't normally get I use
• 10:51
  only yeah accuse other know the doctor mm now love having you
• 10:55
  know, a character narrative going on between you know, in
• 10:58
  their stories. Yeah.
• 11:00
  Which is you know it's as it is on TV.
• 11:04
  It's kind of you know what? It's a generic relationship is
• 11:08
  brisk. It's fun.
• 11:09
  It's a breath of fresh air, but it's nevertheless kind of, well,
• 11:13
  this is what doctor who does it's, you know, it's there.
• 11:16
  Is not that there's not a great amount of thought put into it.
• 11:19
  But with this relationship, it's it's it's it's been it's been
• 11:24
  thought about it has been thought about, did you see it
• 11:28
  not saying a minute ago there, where they were talking about,
• 11:30
  all the places that the Psycho Circus had been and they were
• 11:33
  talking with like Nostalgia about the party?
• 11:36
  Yeah. Used to be gray in the old days.
• 11:38
  Blower that mean? That's how it's not a thinly
• 11:41
  vote. You kind of disguised commentary
• 11:43
  on Doctor Who It's not even disguised is totally.
• 11:47
  His courses are hisses. It's suddenly a computer and
• 11:50
  Doctor Who, but is it? Is it the question is, is it
• 11:56
  might be a good time to talk about Wizkid as well, but Is it
• 12:02
  the what kind of fantasy is he cuz it's like, he's a character
• 12:09
  created in a time where the received wisdom is that the show
• 12:13
  used to be better than it is now and the show has a past but
• 12:18
  maybe not much of a future but I kind of feel that should his a
• 12:23
  question should whiz kid died in this story or should he have
• 12:27
  lived and stuck with Kingpin and man?
• 12:32
  To revive the circus and make it something wonderful and
• 12:35
  beautiful again because because that is that because that fan is
• 12:40
  roughly, Davis is here. See the is, is this, is he a fan
• 12:45
  who is actually part of part of the problem who needs to die for
• 12:50
  the show, too? I wonder if given Cape know,
• 12:53
  the, the hell that John nathan-turner had gone through.
• 12:57
  We've found them at this point, it was like no killed a bugger.
• 13:02
  Yeah, so it is killing Wizkid. An exorcism.
• 13:07
  Potentially that's I think I think this this period in 1988,
• 13:13
  you kill you, kill the fan. But the dark for isn't here, but
• 13:19
  that's I think that's that's what you do when you're making a
• 13:22
  show that it's only the fancy. That's the think it's only the
• 13:26
  fans watching. That's how it kind of feels,
• 13:30
  which you know what? I think when I had Garros one on
• 13:36
  hamster, he was talking about this and about fans watching the
• 13:40
  show, and obviously, he was script editor, a doctor who
• 13:41
  wasn't he? When it was at its height.
• 13:43
  When, yeah, David Tennant was buying out the show.
• 13:47
  Here he comes back again and and he was saying, you know, that we
• 13:51
  won making this show for the fans because the fans actually
• 13:55
  realistically are about 250,000 people and the rest is the
• 14:02
  audience. A large know this was getting
• 14:03
  six million. I don't know.
• 14:06
  I question whether this actually would be predominantly fans
• 14:09
  watching. Yeah, no this is there's a
• 14:12
  thing. This is what's kind of this is
• 14:14
  what's great about this. It's being made for a big
• 14:16
  audience they're not watching it is, you know you know it's a
• 14:19
  shame. Yeah.
• 14:20
  Or rather its peak or rather they would be if it'd been
• 14:23
  publicized and the BBC weren't just, you know, didn't have
• 14:26
  their foot on its neck just, you know, letting you know wanting
• 14:29
  it to die. But I've gotten a version I must
• 14:33
  admit when I'm watching Doctor Who of certain areas, like you
• 14:36
  can kind of sense that this isn't being.
• 14:38
  This is being made for Very niche.
• 14:43
  Sector. And I can't, I can feel the old.
• 14:45
  I'm still watching back and feel I can feel the imaginary
• 14:49
  ordinary audience shrinking around to me.
• 14:51
  And I think I do prefer Doctor Who I feel like know.
• 14:54
  It's, this is aimed at a big Saturday night audience.
• 14:57
  I do like that. Like, somehow I find that the
• 14:59
  70s. So I've heard Terrance dicks a
• 15:02
  little, we weren't making this for the fans.
• 15:04
  Yeah, we're gonna watch anyway. So we were making this for the
• 15:08
  wider and I think hinge Clips time as well was definitely be a
• 15:10
  maid for like, you know, the audience a large.
• 15:13
  And that's that's what that's when it's at its best because
• 15:16
  yeah, I said the fans will watch anyway and I've just yeah, I
• 15:22
  when I can tell it's being aimed at Niche audience, I kind of
• 15:24
  feel like, oh guys, you're killing it.
• 15:27
  You know, here I did. So at the end of the classic
• 15:31
  era, I feel like the kind of opinions when we could have no,
• 15:34
  no, not enough people are watching this.
• 15:37
  So let's just have a last stabbing been weird and
• 15:41
  psychedelic and imaginative and Crazy.
• 15:44
  And let's just calm down the government.
• 15:46
  Yes, I'm bring down a government.
• 15:47
  Yeah, let's do our own thing and boy, do they.
• 15:50
  And that's what that's why it's so good because no one's
• 15:53
  whatnot, because because the teachers know, watching that's
• 15:57
  the thing, it's you know, that they're kind of making it.
• 16:00
  The making of the lens you about McCoy, right?
• 16:02
  Because I always feel when he, you know, when he's like an our
• 16:06
  great new Act is over there and he's like, oh you sure you want
• 16:10
  me and he goes into the ring and I'm convinced he's playing there
• 16:14
  and he kind of knows her something terrible going on.
• 16:16
  And yet, when he goes into the cell, he's like, it's a trap.
• 16:20
  I've fallen far accident. How much does he know?
• 16:27
  How much does he know? And is it consistent in the
• 16:30
  writing? He is practicing his juggling in
• 16:33
  the Tardis. He the appetizing bot gets in.
• 16:39
  He reverse psychology Eliza's case into going he want.
• 16:45
  He know he's going because he knows something's up he's
• 16:48
  totally playing them when he gets invited to the audience but
• 16:52
  the thing about the Seventh Doctor, he isn't an arch
• 16:54
  manipulator. He's won it, he isn't, he's a
• 16:59
  wannabe Arch manipulator. But when he actually gets on the
• 17:02
  scene, he drops the ball. Yeah.
• 17:04
  So God knows what he was a planning originally, but that's
• 17:07
  the Charming thing about him is that, you know, he missed, he
• 17:11
  does miscalculate. And that's well, Barry Letts
• 17:14
  says, in quite a loud, listen to a lot of countries very let's
• 17:17
  say it's like the doctor is different from other heroes or
• 17:20
  superheroes in the he is flawed and he makes mistakes.
• 17:23
  So I think nobody like you'll write about how well he's got
• 17:26
  this thing. Floyd owl as things progressed,
• 17:29
  your ghost is a bar when he's confronted with the gods of
• 17:32
  Ragnarok, by the end of the story, he absolutely knows he's
• 17:35
  gonna see them because he just turns around and says, don't
• 17:37
  forgot to Ragnarok. I believe.
• 17:40
  Oh yeah. And that's what that's why it's.
• 17:41
  This is one of those story and this is why it's a good
• 17:44
  exemplary core sample of a seventh of the story is that
• 17:48
  this is one of the ones where he's going in.
• 17:52
  Eyes Wide Open. Knowing exactly what he's got.
• 17:54
  This is, this is, this is Again The Unfinished Business theme.
• 17:58
  Except this time, it's with an old monster we've never seen
• 18:01
  before. That's, that's the thing.
• 18:03
  So it's it is just like remembrance and sort of a
• 18:06
  nemesis except we've just never seen any of his gods of Ragnarok
• 18:10
  stories. I do like I'd love that.
• 18:13
  They do a lot of that in the McCoy.
• 18:15
  AA Le just a load of past history that we've never seen
• 18:18
  it. We've seen a lot of history but
• 18:20
  like his experience with the Cheering silver Nemesis is fight
• 18:25
  with fabric across time, you know.
• 18:27
  Yeah. Yeah that's the thing.
• 18:28
  It's just so much izing him. Oh, there's a term for it in
• 18:33
  talking, it's lit. I think, I think it's at, I'm
• 18:39
  pretty got this wrong. So screaming at me at home, if
• 18:42
  you're listening, but I think it's literary ruins.
• 18:45
  It's, it's something ruins. It'll, come to me or it won't.
• 18:49
  But the idea is, you know, there's always Something outside
• 18:53
  the door or over the hill, that will now be explained, and
• 18:56
  shouldn't be because it just creates a sense of mystery in
• 18:59
  the larger wider universe. And the mistake is to, then feel
• 19:02
  the need to explain it and you cut my waist, no secret.
• 19:05
  That was what he was planning to do, wasn't it?
• 19:07
  He said, yeah, too much have been exposed about the doctor
• 19:11
  and he wanted to make him sort of this unknowable mysterious
• 19:14
  character again and he boy, does he succeed?
• 19:17
  And that's the thing. This could have worked, this
• 19:19
  could work as a William Hartnell story because Scott that, you
• 19:22
  know it's got that which is what it's going back to kind of how
• 19:26
  Doctor Who felt the beginning before, you know, before the
• 19:30
  time Lords and Gallifrey and all the yeah, all the tedious
• 19:34
  baggage, you know, that actually just it starts to drag down the
• 19:39
  core concept which is interesting.
• 19:42
  Relatable companions have wonderful adventures with an
• 19:44
  eccentric time traveler. They absolutely is the approach
• 19:47
  to Rusty Davis takes initially when he comes back in 2005,
• 19:51
  isn't it here? He takes this approach of like
• 19:53
  will do. We're gonna fry all about me and
• 19:55
  start fresh, you know? Yeah yeah because that because
• 19:57
  that's that's the core premise and over time, you know, it
• 20:01
  just, you know, it's natural, it just you it collects Barnacles,
• 20:06
  you know, of one kind or another but every now and again you've
• 20:09
  got a triple off the hull and start fresh when you that's a
• 20:12
  great that what a great thing it collects Barnacles because I
• 20:15
  think every single time they do this, every time I've ever
• 20:18
  opened have a fresh start I remove like the the eighth
• 20:21
  doctor books. Not right with digital that new
• 20:23
  adventures continuity. We're having a fresh start and
• 20:25
  then all of a sudden this massive continuity builds up.
• 20:29
  I think it's happened with big finish over time as well.
• 20:32
  Like you can't help it. Can you when you first run of
• 20:35
  stories, I think it's, yeah, it's it's accumulated experience
• 20:41
  of the characters and, you know, stuff they go through and that's
• 20:44
  what happens in comics to. That's where you can have like,
• 20:46
  you know, crisis on infinite. Earths every now and again
• 20:50
  there's that's what the time War.
• 20:52
  Was it was bonfire was a bonfire.
• 20:55
  Everything just to go back to square one.
• 20:58
  Although I still think it should never have been seen But there
• 21:01
  we go. Some things are better off on a
• 21:03
  exactly. Again, it's something to be
• 21:05
  honest. She should never can never be
• 21:07
  traumatized but this so it's because what it was it was it
• 21:11
  was literally, as I feared it's just sort of action set pieces
• 21:15
  where as I imagined it being something weird as fuck you know
• 21:18
  like oh yeah that's the thing. Really, and it's something that
• 21:23
  should be something that is utterly unimaginable, so that's
• 21:27
  a, that's a point. If you do, if you do write
• 21:28
  something time, war-related, you've then got to put the
• 21:31
  unimaginable stuff off screen again, but, you know, it kind of
• 21:35
  say, don't worry, it's out there, but it's just further
• 21:37
  down the road. We just had that first scene
• 21:40
  there with Morgana the ringmaster.
• 21:42
  And, and he was, I was right. He was utterly serving, he's
• 21:45
  like, I'll go and find them myself and there's something
• 21:48
  kind of tentative and a bit nervy in his performance.
• 21:51
  And yet, when we go, Back to that scene again in F.
• 21:53
  So free, he's running those things, it makes you wonder what
• 21:57
  he was like in the old days. Was it just happens to be a big
• 22:02
  finish story that tells us all about that, you know?
• 22:04
  Yeah, but it again, there's ghosts.
• 22:08
  It's just so big. It goes It goes back to you know
• 22:12
  what, we're just saying. I wonder what, I wonder what he
• 22:16
  it makes you wonder what he was like in the old days and that is
• 22:20
  and that is how it should be. You know, you'll, I always say
• 22:23
  you get characters Doctor, Who either feel like they have been
• 22:27
  specifically tailored to be within that Doctor, Who story.
• 22:30
  Or they feel like they're a character that I've had a life
• 22:33
  before the story and they'll go on to have a life after the
• 22:36
  story and this is just populated with the latter there.
• 22:40
  And those are the best characters.
• 22:42
  Yeah. It's again, it's a thing that
• 22:45
  Stephen. What does is a type of
• 22:46
  character? He has to you, maybe it's, for
• 22:48
  example, you know, their names are is the chief clown Chief
• 22:50
  caretaker, you know, that's, that's at these are their
• 22:53
  designations. And it's just, it's just
• 22:57
  interesting that, you know, and Then the Kang's meet Abby until
• 23:02
  do you know, it's rare that the characters actually get names.
• 23:06
  You think they might have had since childhood rather than ones
• 23:09
  that have been kind of given to them but it's just it.
• 23:12
  Yeah, it would be I wonder if he'd written a third story maybe
• 23:16
  in a future season if he'd have continued and the same kind that
• 23:20
  kind of style. I've got a I got a question
• 23:22
  about so node and whiz kid so and maybe character Captain Cook
• 23:28
  as well. Well I think is a bit more
• 23:29
  interesting. Are caricatures.
• 23:33
  Yes. And comically played like, do
• 23:36
  you imagine like a non-fan sticking this on in 1987 and
• 23:41
  going? Well, what is this?
• 23:43
  You know, I'll know the Vandal. The greatest.
• 23:45
  You know, the strongest. Yeah.
• 23:49
  I mean I do worry about that. Well I watch this time it's a
• 23:51
  kind of common and ridiculous. Preoccupation of Doctor Who fans
• 23:55
  have that what other people will think about it.
• 23:58
  Yeah. And how many other how many
• 23:59
  other? Then again it's Doctor Who is
• 24:02
  such a unique example but how many other fandoms are that
• 24:06
  defender of defensive defensive and proprietorial?
• 24:10
  I can't think of any I can't think of any others they that
• 24:13
  because it have to be but I know II personally I think it works,
• 24:18
  it works. It works in a way that paradise
• 24:20
  Towers doesn't sometimes doesn't.
• 24:22
  Yeah, but I think that I think don't Daniel peacock as Nord, I
• 24:26
  think it works what he is. I think, you know, if you're a
• 24:28
  non-fan just cheering it's like Like who this?
• 24:31
  I get. I get it.
• 24:32
  This is this is wacky far-out, kind of, you know, 2000, ad
• 24:37
  sci-fi witness. I'll buy into it and I think he
• 24:41
  comes out the smoke, he gets his Burger out of the box on it, on
• 24:44
  the side of his bike. Now I kind of think that's one
• 24:48
  of the and Wizkid to I think not.
• 24:51
  We would get it and I will say is that comic strips informed a
• 24:58
  lot of what he put on the screen in the McCoy.
• 25:00
  And I always feel like there's so much kind of memorable
• 25:04
  imagery. This story would be a fantastic
• 25:08
  comic strip. Wouldn't it?
• 25:09
  You? Oh yeah, but it to that it
• 25:11
  practically. Is it just?
• 25:12
  It's moving? But yeah.
• 25:13
  It's it looks incredible. It's hugely hugely heighten the
• 25:16
  whole concept of an AC circuit to doing a circus story.
• 25:22
  So it hasn't been done. Although, you know, Roger
• 25:24
  Delgado, only first very first turns up it's a circus, but it's
• 25:27
  never really gone into Beyond. On that.
• 25:30
  So it's going to Fisk a long time coming but it's really,
• 25:33
  it's really good. But yeah, it's these kind of
• 25:36
  these, these heightened really heightened comic book characters
• 25:40
  is something that this era McCoy era.
• 25:43
  Absolutely does all that. Yeah, I'm watching mags right
• 25:49
  now, and it's very apparent. Assurance of us, McCoy have
• 25:53
  really decent chemistry and I know big finish, capitalize
• 25:59
  light on in the future and have Yeah, on a run of adventures
• 26:03
  with as His companion. UK mr.
• 26:06
  Trick there, she's really good. Isn't she?
• 26:08
  What is having her to stay on? Yeah.
• 26:10
  Jessica - really she's got some presents in this.
• 26:14
  Oh, she does. But I would say, no, I think I'm
• 26:18
  perfectly supportive of the idea.
• 26:19
  You can be a brilliant character, a One-Shot be
• 26:23
  brilliant, Lee, you know, and then just bugger off you might.
• 26:27
  But can you imagine if she'd stuck around, And then we go
• 26:32
  into Battlefield and it's the doctor Ace and mags and everyone
• 26:37
  else. And then then you do the ace
• 26:40
  Trilogy. We're in a goat measured
• 26:41
  ghost-like with mags tagging around and it's like when you
• 26:44
  finish is often paired up with a female character is Insha'Allah,
• 26:46
  I know I know, but it's not, but just the story logic of doctor.
• 26:50
  I'm Max's were actually being at like, you know, you're taking me
• 26:54
  around the universe. To I'm just watching you
• 26:57
  psychologically torture Ace. What's this about It would kill
• 27:02
  the dynamic between the doctrine Ace.
• 27:04
  It would hook as well, of her being, the werewolf will be
• 27:06
  overused to. It'll be weird.
• 27:09
  You mean like, like, like sharing the Tardis with Bruce
• 27:12
  Banner? That kind of thing?
• 27:13
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's I think she's great, but
• 27:17
  it's a, she's and she's really good and she's gorgeous as well
• 27:21
  in this but she's a One-Shot character.
• 27:24
  I think, I don't think she's got legs to to contribute anything
• 27:29
  too serious. 26 as it exists. I think she get in the way of
• 27:33
  Ace big time. It's very interesting.
• 27:36
  You know that when Steven Why comes back to write his big
• 27:39
  finish story. Yeah, there's it's not only a
• 27:43
  sequel to grow as shown. Now, it's a prequel to Great.
• 27:45
  Showing the Galaxy, and a sequel to Paradise Towers.
• 27:50
  He Ducks into both stories. And wicked.
• 27:52
  Wicked. Okay.
• 27:55
  I want to ask you something about.
• 27:58
  This was filmed in a car park. In elstree was Yes, it was
• 28:02
  because the last bestest problem.
• 28:03
  You think if this had been in the studio, it would have looked
• 28:07
  much different Would they have had?
• 28:11
  Maybe it would look. It would look less 10 T in the
• 28:15
  studio Magi, I kind of think being filmed in a tent.
• 28:19
  It what it gains a certain Look, however, I think what it might
• 28:26
  sacrifice is kind of that that control you have in the studio.
• 28:35
  I'm just looking at the, the way the the performances are pulled
• 28:39
  off indoors in this compared to an awareness.
• 28:44
  Next one ghost-like, I see. I feel like ghosts life feels
• 28:49
  like there's more space to play with.
• 28:51
  Yeah, this is quite tight because Inside a real 10 all
• 28:54
  night, so they strictly with the space that they've got.
• 28:57
  I think, I think you'd lose certain qualities, but
• 29:00
  obviously, I think you gained others, it feels that feels a
• 29:04
  little bit ad, hoc in the filming and the tent in certain
• 29:08
  bits. I think, you know, this is a
• 29:11
  hotly contested competition, but I do think this feature some of
• 29:15
  the best ever running down corridors say it's because I was
• 29:18
  tense like corridors when they yeah, yeah.
• 29:21
  Bellowing Edible that that you would lose.
• 29:25
  So, I think, I think you'd sacrifice the kind of the, the
• 29:28
  subtle sense of realism you get from filming in a tent.
• 29:32
  I think, what you would gain by being in the studio, is it might
• 29:36
  have you might be able to Do more for the performances, maybe
• 29:42
  because you get you get that sequence in episode 4, don't you
• 29:45
  are Max as a stacking the dr. I need swinging across and it
• 29:49
  does feel quite contained. I think we're as, I think in the
• 29:51
  studio, that ring would feel massive flight in tc1, or
• 29:56
  something like that. Yeah, maybe we'll get to at the
• 29:57
  time, but I do kind of that scene.
• 29:59
  I think does have a, it does have some blocking problems, or,
• 30:03
  at least. There's some, there's some kind
• 30:04
  of problem between the the page and the screen in the it's Since
• 30:09
  what, you know, the character turns into a monster and they do
• 30:12
  what they do. A lot of monster posturing that
• 30:14
  they don't actually kill the hero.
• 30:16
  It's not what you know. It's like kill him you know.
• 30:19
  It's a whole team is a little bit awkwardly directed and my
• 30:23
  God yeah he's game is throwing himself across but I mean we
• 30:27
  will get there were. We're Cliffhanger isn't it?
• 30:30
  Was like ahem you are in the ring next Yeah, and it's not too
• 30:35
  dissimilar again it's again. It's a it's a, it's a, it's not
• 30:40
  a cliffhanger per se. It's it's a Pivot moment kind of
• 30:46
  thing. We have to wait till the end of
• 30:48
  episode 3. Before is actually a genuine
• 30:51
  moment of danger. Yeah, yeah.
• 30:53
  That's the, yeah, that their moments of drama rather than
• 30:56
  moments of danger, I suppose is the Okay, well, I'm gonna I'm
• 31:02
  gonna balance out of this episode with one last question.
• 31:06
  It's a very simple one and it's all to you are clowns, creepy
• 31:12
  our staniel night Yes. Yes, they are.
• 31:17
  I think also, I think probably I think since the mid 80s or so
• 31:22
  just in pop culture, they became creepy and I don't think there's
• 31:27
  any coming back from that. Now with clowns, I think John
• 31:32
  Wayne Gacy didn't help the clown, you know, the clown side
• 31:37
  to be quite Frank that read mockery of the human face, isn't
• 31:43
  it? Odd?
• 31:43
  Permanence my dramatic. Sequins in the very first Batman
• 31:46
  from where the reporters laugh likes doing a report and then
• 31:50
  she starts laughing her head off.
• 31:51
  Oh yes. Urban it as a child, that
• 31:55
  chilled me to the Bone. I was terrifying story, but it
• 31:57
  was it was a big. It was a big decade for that
• 31:59
  between it and, you know, Alan Moore's, The Killing Joke sub at
• 32:04
  the Joker in Batman, in the comics before the film was
• 32:07
  starting to get kind of properly dark again.
• 32:09
  So, it was a good period for terrifying clowns.
• 32:14
  Well, well well, this is a fabulous conversation.
• 32:17
  Should we head into episode 3? Let's Do It.
• 32:20
  Let's Do It.