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The Mandalorian Chapter 11: The Heiress · Aggressive Negotiations: A Star Wars Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: The Force will be with you always.
• 0:02
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the net Palty.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Hi, this is Nick and Astasu, story editor on Star Wars,
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: The Clone Wars and Star Wars bad Batch, and you
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: are listening to Aggressive Negotiations.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Well, hello and welcome to aggressive negotiations is coming at
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: you from I'm not quite sure where, since the ship
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: is in such bad shape. I don't even know if
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: we're going to get to land. I am just one
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: of the hosts, Jedi Master Matthew Rushing and with me
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: as he is every single week, the Jedi Master who
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: will eat just about anything as long as it's moving.
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: John Mills, Well, you know, honestly, it's a little cramped
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: in here. I feel like this ploy of pressurizing the
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: cockpit to survive deep space was really just your move
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: to make more snuggle time for Jedi Masters on the Journey.
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: And that's my accusation to open the show, matt As
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: you just wanted to snuggle more, which I respect. I'm
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: a snuggler. I like snuggling.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, that's anyway, let's move past that. You
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: can find us all over social media under the name
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• 1:29
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• 1:33
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• 1:43
  Speaker 2: You could do that online, you could do that in person.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: You could do that at the dentist's office, or you know,
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: when you're talking about your favorite show, or.
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: Just about any time.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: You could share us with people that you know would
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: love of great Star Wars talk. We'd really appreciate that.
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean we would even encourage and welcome because
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: I mean, you know, we're in the public domain that
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: if you wanted to act out one of your favorite conversations.
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: Just today, I made reference to somebody at work about
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: our Rogue one disagreement, which is sort of legendary through
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: the annals of aggressive negotiations.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: Because aggressive negotiations were had on that episode.
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because what I encountered was somebody else who loves
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: Rogue one as much as you do. And when I said,
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: well yeah, but she got very mad and I said,
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: you know, you'll never approach this one conversation I had
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: with my dear, dear friend, Jedi Master Matthew Rushing. Tune
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: in and listen to aggressive negotiations. I don't know what
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: the episode number is off the top of my head,
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: but we'll put it in the show notes or something
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: like that.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: You'll love it. What you just need to do is
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: you just need to look up Rogue one.
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: On the website.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: If you type that in, you'll find our conversations about
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: World one, and honestly, you're not going to be disappointed.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: And so a huge thank you too to all the
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: people who have give us a star rating over on Spotify.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: A lot of people listen to podcasts. John on Spotify.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: I didn't know if you knew that.
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: And we sprung up overnight.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: I know Spotify it's great new service, but it's this
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: tiny little thing. Barely anybody uses it, but it's kind
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: of nice, I guess anyway.
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: I wish them luck. Yeah, I just.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: Wanted to say thank you because you know, we have
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: a four point eight rating there out of five. So
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: really appreciate people who have done that. You know, it
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: does take care. Yeah, yeah, it's it's great. And like
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: I said, you know, doing that helps people find the
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: show on Spotify, which you know, again a great platform
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: to listen to podcast did you know, John, you could
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: also find podcasts over on Amazon as well. Amazon Music
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: does podcasts.
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, everybody's getting into it. It's the hip. Everybody loves it.
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: Everybody loves it. I can tell you that. You know,
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: as you listen to those ads on there too, a
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: great thing is just to listen to them all the
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: way through because as somebody who works in marketing and advertising,
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: we have no way of knowing when people listen to
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: those ads. So honestly, fast forward them if you have to,
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: but don't tell them I told you to do that,
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: So that's fine.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: Well, we definitely appreciate everybody who has been listening to us. Again,
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: it really does mean a whole lot, and so yeah,
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: keep it up, and like we said, just share us
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: with people that you know. So, John, we are going
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: to continue our walk through the Mandalorian series here as
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: we're getting ready for the Mandalorian and Grogu which I
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: actually just got the movie poster for It's up in
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: my office now and work. I love it. It's I
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: love the nineteen forty serial look to it. It looks
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: perfect between my episode three and episode one poster there
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: from Matt Ferguson and so, but we've reached the Heiress
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: and so this episode, wow, I mean, there are so
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: many big revelations that happened in this episode. Not only
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: do we meet a fan favorite of Bogaton, but we
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: get the mention of course of Ahsoka Tano that we
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: you know here is going to show up. And so
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: maybe maybe I guess it's the best time to just
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: talk about right here at the beginning, the fact that
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: this is going to reintroduce us to the Mandalorians that
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: we saw on the Clone Wars. And how how do
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: you feel about that? Especially here in a rewatch, John,
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: You know, as we know what's coming and we begin
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: to merge these universes of Mandalorians, how do you think
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: they did?
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: I think they did very well. I think it's tricky
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: to bring in the older Mandalorian lore because the resistance
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: points that you will hit, You will hit people like
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: my beloved wife, who sort of the idea that Star
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: Trek is inculcated into us that all Mandalorians are the same.
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: You know, it gets busted up in this episode about
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: the whole taking off the helmet thing and Boke Ten
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: settling once and for all on screen the debate that
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: had been going on where it was like, no, they're
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: just a sect of Mandalorians, They're not the only Mandalorians.
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: Then you have, you know, bringing in fan favorite characters.
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: Like you said, it's tough because we're now rooted in
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: the larger mythos, which for a longtime fan is fantastic
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: for longtime haters, is just further proof that it's small
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: universe thinking. But the big gamble is will the casuals
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: get on board with it? I would say that the
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: way that they did it, I don't I don't see
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: any reason the casuals wouldn't go along with it. This
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: is a legitimately interesting way to introduce a larger world,
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: not just to the viewer, but to the Mandalorian. We've
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: seen him go different places, We've seen people that don't
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: understand he takes his helmet off. Now we see people
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: dressed like him who take their helmets off and give
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: us more backstory about how there's a larger view of
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: the galaxy to have, So I think, I mean, I
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: give it high marks for that reason.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think one of the most beautiful things about
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: this episode is the way in which I think the
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: Mandalarian series in general and then what we saw in
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: the Clone Wars and then being melded together is that
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: thing I think we've talked about before here and of
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: course over at the six or two Club and in
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: many places right with you know, genre based storytelling, especially
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: in sci fi. Many times what happens is races become
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: homogenized and everything's the same. Everybody's a warrior in the
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: Klingon society, right, you know, and the list kind of
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: goes on and on. You know, we in Star Trek
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: the first time you meet Spock, everybody has to be
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: exactly like Spock if they're a Vulcan, you know, and
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: all of this stuff, right, And I think, you know,
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: in many ways, Star Wars in that sense is no
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: different specifically for the Mandalorian culture. And you know, so
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: what I love here is that you know, we had
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: already if you watched the Clone Wars, you already understood
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: that the Mandalorian society had these different factions to it.
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: So the idea that there is this faction called the
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: Children of the Watch was wonderful and the fact that
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: they were kind of hearkening back to an older time, right,
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: they're trying to get back to you know, I guess
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: maybe you would call them orthodox, you know, Mandalorians, you know,
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: where you don't take off their helmet and that kind
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: of thing. And that's the thing I really appreciate because,
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: you know, for the Mandalorians as akin to the Jedi, right,
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: their way of life has a very spiritual aspect to it.
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: And so.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: There's something just really special about taking this in that
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: sense quite seriously in creating a society that is multifaceted
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: and interesting, because there's nothing interesting about just watching everybody
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  Speaker 2: be exactly the same.
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: But what I think gets overlooked and what I think
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: this episode is a wonderful dovetail into talking about it.
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: I mean, you know, we're talking about the Mandalorians and
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: the Mandalorian culture and how it's changed and evolved, and
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: it's different from the way they explained it in the nineties.
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: Although they held on to this idea of you're not
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: born a Mandalorian necessarily you become a Mandalorian and so's
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: it's not by birth. But then you see that they
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: were once by birth. The heiress was by birth. You
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: can't be an heiress unless you have a line. And
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: the thing is that line, that way of thinking. You
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: do take your helmet off because your face matters, your
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: blood matters, those sorts of things. And then you see
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: how Den Jaron has lived in such a way that
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: he's with people where your bloodline and your face don't matter.
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: Where you were born doesn't matter, None of that matters.
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: All that matters is that you are there with the collective. Now,
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: I can understand why Boca tam would call them a cult.
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: You're all living off on your own and you have
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: this strict code and you you kick people out if
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: they don't follow it, and those sorts of things. I
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: could see why an outsider would see them as a cult.
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: But at the same time, it does enrich the story,
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: it makes it legitimately interesting.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think in some ways there is that
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: very interesting juxtaposition between a society that is based off
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: of hereditary titles and you know, a rich cultural history,
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: and a culture that then becomes based solely on ideology.
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: And again, the interesting thing about this is, you know,
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: these children of the Watch, there is a religious nature
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: to their zealotry about their ideology. Right, you take out
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: your helmet off, you're anathema, You're kicked out right, And
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: so I think that is something that is just incredibly interesting.
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: And it's one of the things that I think makes
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: this episode so great is because it immediately makes you
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: think this question, how in the world did we get
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: to this point then with these children of the Watch, Like,
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: how did this happen? What is it that caused these
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: people to do this?
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: And those are the type of really interesting cultural discussions
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: in a you know, a universe that that keep you
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: wanting to come back for more. Right, These are the
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: little nuggets in a show that I think make it
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: really interesting. And again, you're you're just hoping then that
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: the creators of the show will slowly begin to unravel
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: these mysteries that they're kind of creating here, you know,
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: with what we see specifically in this episode.
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: Well never mind the fact as well that you know,
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: we get other Easter eggs in addition to getting to
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: see Bocatan in life, you know, with the Gazanti class Cruiser.
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: We see you know an at at Walkers as a
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: doc you know, a crane, but I wanted to ask
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: you specifically, Ashley Eckstein did not get to play Ahsoka
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: Tano in live action. We all feel bad. I mean,
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: to this day, I'm sort of like, I understand the reasoning,
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: but at the same time, I think it's a shame
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: because it's like that she owned that character, she birthed
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: that character. It was her voice and her acting that
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: made us fall in love with Ahsoka. I understand recasting
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: decisions and stuff like that, and I'm taking nothing away
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: from Rosario Dawson. The reason I bring it up is,
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: do you think there's any sort of incongruity between the
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: fact that, uh, you know, Katie Sakoff gets to come
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: back and play the live action Bokatan, Like, is there
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: you know, is there an incongruity that we're set up
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: for in the next episode sort of thing. Did it
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: make you, you know what, go back in time? Did
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: it make you it all nervous about the fact that
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: you were seeing the actress who made Bokatan on screen
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: and you knew that when you eventually encountered Ahsoka because
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: they didn't keep it a secret. There was gonna be
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: Rosario Dawson.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think that that is a really good question.
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: I think one of the most interesting things about this
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: is that the character I think of of Bo is
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: so based off of just everything about Katie sack Off.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: You know, like legitimately everything about the character is is
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: kind of based off of her in that sense. The
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: way she looks obviously, the way she talks, you know,
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: her movement or everything is really is that. And you know,
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: I think the interesting thing about you know, Ashley Eckstein
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: playing Ahsoka is that you know, she fits ah Soca
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: I think as a child right because of her size
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: and everything like that. And I think what ended up
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: happening in that sense is that by the time you
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: get to where she is in this show, she's a
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: full fledged adult who's grown and is a I think
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: Dave kind of maybe has in his mind a certain
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: size or whatever, and she just doesn't quite fit that
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: physicality of the character to be on screen in that way.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: And so but yeah, I mean.
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I don't take anything away from that but
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: your role.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: But I think that was my own thought process about coming,
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: you know, to this episode knowing that Katie was going
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: to be back, but also knowing that you know, Rosario
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: was going to be playing and so yes, there was
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: going to be this difference, and I think you know
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: in that that's I think also the kind of the
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: beauty of this too. And I think one of the
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: just the way Katie plays the character, you could tell
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: that you know she is excited to play this character.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: But I found it interesting for her. If she's talked
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: about it, she said, this is one of the hardest
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: things she's ever had to do, was transition to character
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: who she only played the voice of. And therefore, you know,
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: in the sound booth you can do a lot of
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: things and everything that aren't necessarily what you're going to
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: see on screen as the character, but that can help
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: you get to where you need to be voice wise, right,
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: But she has to play this character the way it
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: was portrayed on the animated show, you know, the Clone
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: Wars and Rebels, because like you said, there's a lot
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: of Easter eggs in this show that tie right back
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: to Rebels as much as it the Clone Wars.
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: And so.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: That's a hard thing to do when you're only having
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: to portray a character with your voice and then you
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: you know, you can use your hands however you want.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: You could be moving your body whoever you want to
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: get to that place. You can't do that obviously when
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: everything you've got is on screen, and so watching her
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: make that transition is actually, you know, for us as
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: major fans, I think is one of the most interesting
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: aspects of the episode.
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I'm glad you mentioned the physicality of
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: it though, because that's one of the things that I
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: think is unfortunate about working in the volume. And I
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: don't think we're there yet in the season, but there
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: are moments, although I suppose you could the assault on
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: the ship, you could kind of call it out here,
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: where you feel the physicality of the actors and actresses
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: being limited by the fact that the space is not
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: large enough for them to go big, and they get
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: around it in a lot of really interesting ways, like
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: I think the stuff on the exterior of the ship,
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: like there's some effects work in this episode that is
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: legitimately mind blowing because you have to sit there. It's
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: like seeing Anakin and Obi Wan fighting on Moostafar, where
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: it's like, oh, right, that doesn't exist. They're just in
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: a bunch of great boxes, right, and like it hurts
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: your mind when you think about it, because it's like, why,
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: you know, Scrooge suddenly makes sense. I can't trust my eyes.
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: Maybe I add some underdone potato or something like that,
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: but it's it is one of those things where it's
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: like I would have liked to see her being given
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: the freedom to go larger, like if that's going to
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: help her get in to that character, not make her
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: be closed, let her do some of the wild movements,
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: you know, because again you're transitioning from mediums, you know.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So I think, you know, I think that's a
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: good kind of aspect to talk about with this episode.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: Is you know, Bryce Alice Howard is the director of
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: this episode, and you know, we have had nothing, I
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: think but really affusive praise for her previously anytime we've
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: talked about one of her episodes. And one of the
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: things that really jumped out to me was, and I
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: don't know if it has anything to do with her,
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: but the utilization of the volume and the sets in
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: this episode are so picture perfect that there is almost
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: no place where I'm really pulled out thinking that I'm
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: being limited by anything. Because this you know, water feels
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: so real and like visceral and like I can touch
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: literally everything I see on the screen right, whether it's
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: you know, fake or you know, pixels or whatever. But
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: then all of the shots just in the ship when
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: they're having that, you know, the hallway combat, all of
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: that stuff is just incredibly well done.
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: I would have liked to see more movement in the
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: hallway combat. I think that's one of the places where
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: it's like, I get the year an enclosed space, but
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: I will see a little more bounciness to it, I guess,
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: is what I would say. But I think also the
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: effects work, and especially the background volume work outdoors is
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: helped by the fact that this is a it looks
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: like a dreary, gray New England fishing harbor. Yeah, and
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: I think that flatness helps because it does you're not
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: asking as much color and depth from the background because
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: your eye accepts something's a little washed out. Now. The
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: thing is, I flip that around. I give a lot
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: of praise to Howard for the fact that she maximizes
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: this environment where it is like it is. It still
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: is tricky to make it, Like you said, I feel
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: like I can go and walk around this place, and
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: it's it's pretty amazing what they pull off. I think
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: that also the planet fall of the Razorcrest coming down
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: man really really beautiful. And in revisiting the episode, I
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: know that somebody called out on the Wikipedia page that's
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: a purposeful homage to Bryce Dallas Howard's father ron with
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: the planet fall as the astronauts are returning in Apollo thirteen.
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: Ye I did not pick up on that, So now
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: I gotta go back. I got to watch this sequence
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: again and then watch that sequence from Apollo thirteen just
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: to see it match up. Yeah, because I love callbacks
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: like that. But you know, I mean, what a cheat
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: to be able to imitate your incredible father who you know,
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: undoubtedly mentored you in in the craft, And that's awesome.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: You know. One of the things that I was kind
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: of struck by with this this episode is it really
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: did feel like there's also a great Jurassic Park reference
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: here where you know, you're you're feeding the beast, you know,
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: so very much like the Raptors sequence in the original
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: Jurassic Park. So I thought that was really nice and
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: really well done.
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, one of the things to here is.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: This we're not just tying Like, this is not an
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: episode where it's like, oh, we just want to bring
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: in you know, the other Mandalorians kind of tie it
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: into you know, other things we've seen in Star Wars,
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: from Clone Wars and rebels. That's just that's not the
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: reason for this story, because really, this whole episode actually
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: ties what's happening to dind Jarrin as well as Bocaton
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: to everything that happened in the previous season with maf Gideon,
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: and that I think is what also makes this really
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: interesting because oh my goodness, you know the fact that
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: she has been busy, you know, harassing him and stealing
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: his weapons and everything so that she could try and
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: take back mandalor the fact that she knows that he
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: also has the Dark Saber. I mean, I think all
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: of that adds incredible layers then to the storytelling of
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: you know, this season last season, you know, and you
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: know hopefully then what's to come in this in this
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: season too.
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I think that I also enjoy from this. They
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: they have some really well done comedy, you know with
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: the soup.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's some weird showder Man. It reminds me of like,
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: is this a Klingon planet, right.
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: But but the thing is, it's it's a wonderful you know,
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: reminder of the fact that you know, different cultures are
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: going to have food like this, Yeah, there's gonna be
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: surprises in every dish sort of thing. But I also
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: like the fact that you have a moment where Grogu
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: sees new life and is you know, interacting with it,
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: like sort of seeing that, you know, seeing the other family,
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: you know, hey, watch the kids sort of thing, and
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: it's like, I think those are very worthwhile moments as well,
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: because we're forwarding, grow, go along, but in an incremental
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: enough way that it's forward progress without being a giant leap.
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: And I think it shows a tremendous amount of discipline
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: on the part of the show because of the fact
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: that everybody is very impatient with forward progress. They want
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: the leaps, and then when you have the leaps, they're like, well,
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: that was too fast. Nobody ever gets the pacing quite right,
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: but I feel like they're getting the pacing right at
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: this point, and it, you know, it makes me think
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: of I always think of the fact that with Twin
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: Peaks they revealed the killer of Laura Palmer way earlier
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: than ever intended, because the network got antsy and was
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: like no, no, no, no, no, no no no. People want
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: to know, people want to know. We've got to keep
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: people coming. And if they had stretched it out further,
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: probably the show goes longer. And I think that, you know,
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: it'll be interesting to see as we continue to rewatch
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: whether we see that incremental process continue with grogu and
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: and the world building too for that matter. Yeah.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: No, I think it is really fun the way in
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: which this character is being utilized. You know, obviously there's
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: the cute factor just of the character, but I even
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: think of the way in which, you know, he has
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: grown a little bit in the last episode, you know,
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: in the sense that he's told to be good when
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: he goes and stays with the frog people, right and
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: den is like, you know what I mean, don't need
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: any more of their kids, right and and and so
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: he doesn't do that. And then he also is seen,
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: you know, playing with one of their you know children
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: that has hatched, and there's something kind of really sweet
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: about that. And then of course you.
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: Know he wants one, so well, of course he does.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: I got enough pets, So I thought I thought all
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: of that was great but I wanted to ask you
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: about this too, because you know, another huge moment, of
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: course in the episode is when Bo says Ahsokatano and
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: that that's the Jedi, and so because I think in
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: many ways our first thought is kind of Luke, right,
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: Luke Skywalker, like, you know, he's the only Jedi left,
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: but he's not the Jedi. She knows, she knows another
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: Jedi that we know has survived. And I think, yeah,
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: even rewatching it, how do you feel in that moment
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: when you realize, oh my gosh, next episode, good chance
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: seeing Ahsoka.
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I think you said it right. Oh my gosh,
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, Oh my gosh, it's her. It's her,
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: She's coming. Huh. I remember actually showing this to my
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: youngest who's a Rebels fan and has and then watched
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: Clone Wars and all of that type of stuff and
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: just waiting for that moment where Bocatan says Ahsoka Tano
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: and my kid goes, wait, really, and I was like, yeah, yeah,
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: it's really you know, like, you know, the thing I
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: love most about the moment is it keeps up the
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: trend of we we all think we're done with Ahsoka
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: and then she comes sidling back on into our lives,
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: and it's it's a great it's always a great feeling
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: when she shows back up. And I know you felt
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: the same way. I mean, there's no question there.
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: You know, I think exactly I remember watching this episode,
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: and I think if I remember correctly, I was just
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: I legitimately jumped up and down in excitement the fact
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: that we were going to do this. And you know,
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: I also think that it's kind of interesting to aside
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: from the Skywalkers, you have this this character who is
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: right now chronologically the beginning of the Star Wars universe
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: is her birth, and so how she will interweave into
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: the rest of the series is really fascinating to me.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: And you know, and and and and yeah, just I
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: had no idea that we would go to the point
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: where we would get you know, in Ahsoka show.
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: Well but but but but that's that's the thing that's
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: so funny to me is a soca in a sense.
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: Look for me, especially as old as I am, Star
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: Wars is Luke Skywalker and Anakin Skywalker. And that's why
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: it's always going to be in my heart. Okay, that's fine,
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: That's that that is the anchor around which the rest
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: of it. Uh, it's it's the sun around which the
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: entire system orbits. However, to your point about how chronologically,
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: thanks to Tales of the Jedi, Ahsoka's the beginning point,
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: She's the chronologically oldest on screen story that we've gotten.
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: And so to go in there and say that they
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: found a way to very subtly do the thing that
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: haters online always rage about, which is, oh, you made
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: it a girl story. And it's like, I look at
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: the way Ahsoka has sort of grown and taken over
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: the Star Wars narrative, and I see a very interesting
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: counterpoint to the way that Ray. Because they didn't develop
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: her arc the way that they promised to after the
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: Force awakens, she winds up feeling like a bolt on
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: as opposed to this sort of root and branch working
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: out into the entire system. Like Ahsoka has just sort
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: of slowly grown out there, whereas Ray had that potential
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: and they didn't. You know, it's just two different ways
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: of going about it.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: Yep could not agree with you more. I think there
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: is something really really interesting about the way in which
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: that character has been able to develop, And then the
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: way in which you know, other characters were not able
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: to develop, and the I think the fact that characters
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: that that people have accepted a character like Ahsoka in
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: the way that they have and love when she comes
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: back and just love the fact that you know she's
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: there and can't wait to see the next time that
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: she returns. I think there is something that it's like, yeah,
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: they did that right, you know, they introduced her correctly,
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: And I think there's that That's that's the thing that
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: makes this so exciting is knowing you know, as we
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: end this episode, we're headed off to find Ahsoka Tano uh,
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: and then you know, the question in our mind becomes, Okay,
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: well what else might she be in? You know, and
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: what else might we do with this character? Which you know,
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: I think is is such a great question. And so yeah,
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: I mean this is one of those episodes where man,
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: it's it's it's one of my favorite rewatches. And I
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: don't know were we rating these episodes?
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: Did we give a rating last time? I can't remember, Uh,
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: you know what, I can't remember. I don't really care,
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: So you know what, I'll just I'll give it an
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: A plus. It's a great shot, great episode, advances the story,
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: really top notch effects work. Bryce Alice Howard once again
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: comes in give her a swing the fenses, like, give
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: her more Star Wars. I don't know what it's gonna Seriously,
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: I don't know what it's going to take me, Like,
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: give her, give her a movie to direct, please.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: I mean, but I also feel about give her dad
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: more Star Wars to direct too, So you know that's true.
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: But like, you know, hey, you know the guy wants
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: to take it easy. That's cool, that's cool. His daughter
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: is incredible as a director. Please please give her something
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: budget film ever now?
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: In Yaddle so yes, come on, man.
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: She managed to take a random toss off background character
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: that was just a quick sketch for you know, for
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: s and giggles on Phantom Menace production that turned into
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: a puppet and then they turned her into one of
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: the best moments in Yeah, in Star Wars Lore, like,
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: come on, just fantastic, give her all the things? Yeah,
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: I love it so.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: Well, John, if people wanted to catch up with you,
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: see what else you've got going on, where would they
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: find you?
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: Well, you can find me online is Kessel Junkie. My
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: favorite network of choice to be on social speaking wise
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: is letterboxed where I review movies and also I just
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: gave my my review and rating of my rewatch of
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: the Book of Boba Fett, which I indulged in for
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: the youngest sake. And so you can go over there
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: and connect with me over on the letterbox Let's have
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: some fun. And you can find me right here on
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: the nerd Party Network, which I consider the premiere podcasting
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: network that's out there, on a show called house Lights
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: with Darren Moser and Tristian Riddell, where again we're talking
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: movies over there, but we're we have some interesting spins
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: on it, and I encourage everybody to amble on over
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: there and listen. But Matt, I am but a speck
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: of dust in the podcasting and online universe. Where can
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: people go to bask in the soothing radiation of your
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: starlike radiance out there?
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, you can find me all over social media
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: and the name Matt rising Zer.
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: Two.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: Of course here on the network, you'll also find me
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: on outposts talk about every single chapter the Harry Potter series,
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: one chapter time. Over on the TFM network, got a
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: bunch of shows. One is called the six O two
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: Cup and we're talking about all of those franchises we
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: love outside of Star Trek, and then tons of great
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: Star Trek talk over there with my good friend Chris Jones,
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: so hope everybody will check that out. But John, Dude,
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: they are serving not live chowder at the Temple tonight
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: with some wonderful oyster crackers and a wonderful Sam Adams
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: style beer. So I think it's time to head back
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: and close these negotiations.
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: Well, I'll just sneak that live Cthulhu octopus into your
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: soup and have all of the hilarity ensue se Master Rushing.
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: Negotiations are closed.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: Join the Revolution, Join the Nerd Party,