Latest / The Sports Card CEO Podcast / Episode 32, S2: A Deep Dive with Brent Weyer | Sports Cards, Client Strategies, and Hobby Mindset

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Episode 32, S2: A Deep Dive with Brent Weyer | Sports Cards, Client Strategies, and Hobby Mindset · The Sports Card CEO Podcast

• 0:00
  [SPEAKER_05]: What is happening everybody?
• 0:01
  [SPEAKER_05]: Welcome back to another episode of the sports card C-E-O.
• 0:05
  [SPEAKER_05]: We have a special guest, Brent Weir, back in the house, deep value investor, boys.
• 0:11
  [SPEAKER_05]: It is great to be with you.
• 0:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: a 47D season and a season of life in the other and naturely baseball history from one of the Cognitive Junior.
• 0:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a drag right on the panel.
• 0:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: Evan, Simon, what a season he is having.
• 0:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: He hits this one hard.
• 0:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: He hits the line of the left.
• 0:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: My truck has ripped him on him.
• 0:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: What's up, guys?
• 0:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Mike Traut.
• 0:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: And this is the sports car C. It's current.
• 0:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Buff on hand.
• 0:58
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yo, what's happening, guys?
• 1:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: What's up, buddy?
• 1:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, man, I'm just out here in Seattle.
• 1:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's summertime and join the sun.
• 1:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Been starting wire sports advisory, so just having lots of fun and cards and my sun's in 15 years slack baseball.
• 1:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, relate to some of what Bubba usually talks about on here.
• 1:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, well, let's keep going for Boba today.
• 1:17
  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, Boba's still on the, hiatus right now.
• 1:20
  [SPEAKER_05]: Little summer hiatus, he says hello to everybody.
• 1:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: And don't feel like you need to talk 15 under baseball, though.
• 1:27
  [SPEAKER_05]: All right.
• 1:27
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
• 1:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I've actually got a funny story, but we'll tell that in a minute.
• 1:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: But we appreciate everybody tuning into the SportsCard CEO.
• 1:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: Friends, we've been doing this for a little over a year now.
• 1:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: We appreciate the support for those of you who do not know.
• 1:38
  [SPEAKER_05]: You can go to the sportscarcio.com.
• 1:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: Check out our website, check out some inventory.
• 1:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: 888 pod CEOs, we can answer your questions live on the air.
• 1:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: We're doing this for about a month, a year and a half now.
• 1:50
  [SPEAKER_05]: We're coming up on a year and a half.
• 1:51
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm then rocking Rowland here.
• 1:53
  [SPEAKER_05]: So one air at Mandel Kern is going to lead off our CEO round table today.
• 1:58
  [SPEAKER_05]: What's what's been happening in your life this week, Mr. Turks and Kco stuff.
• 2:02
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, well, I was going to say I'm a little darker than usual, right?
• 2:05
  [SPEAKER_05]: Wow.
• 2:06
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's just hook current.
• 2:08
  [SPEAKER_05]: This is what we're kind of calling you.
• 2:09
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I just cooked in the sun, basically.
• 2:11
  [SPEAKER_04]: Now that there was, I had a great trip.
• 2:13
  [SPEAKER_04]: I was gone from Tuesday to Friday and Turks and Kicos.
• 2:15
  [SPEAKER_04]: My wife and I got engaged there.
• 2:17
  [SPEAKER_04]: So it was kind of like an nostalgia trip to go back to our old stomping grounds.
• 2:22
  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm anxious to two of us.
• 2:23
  [SPEAKER_04]: No kids, which was fantastic.
• 2:25
  [SPEAKER_04]: We haven't had one of those in a while.
• 2:27
  [SPEAKER_04]: Whether it was absolutely gorgeous, but it was dangerous because it was.
• 2:31
  [SPEAKER_04]: Very windy.
• 2:31
  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, but really hot, so the sun gets it sneaks up on you, you know, but just had some great meals.
• 2:38
  [SPEAKER_04]: A lot of, you know, relaxing.
• 2:44
  [SPEAKER_04]: No, my ties for me.
• 2:46
  [SPEAKER_04]: Steiko.
• 2:47
  [SPEAKER_04]: Steiko.
• 2:49
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and relaxation, but other than that, I'm like this my first day back in the office since and so I'm just getting back into swing of things and it's starting to get a little less crazy at work.
• 3:02
  [SPEAKER_04]: So gear and off at the summertime although it doesn't really feel like the summer.
• 3:06
  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, this weekend was, I mean, a Saturday was like honestly it felt like it's it was the weather was 55.
• 3:14
  [SPEAKER_04]: with the wind 30 felt like 31 like that's not summertime.
• 3:18
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's not summertime.
• 3:19
  [SPEAKER_04]: We're not there yet, but up.
• 3:21
  [SPEAKER_05]: I would gladly take, well, it's not summer until June 21st.
• 3:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, yes, like, you know, it has felt like summer day.
• 3:27
  [SPEAKER_04]: Post Memorial Day, you kind of like think summer starts, right?
• 3:30
  [SPEAKER_04]: Like here.
• 3:31
  [SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, the weather hasn't hasn't been that.
• 3:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: But talk about time to get back to the zoo current.
• 3:37
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, well, the zoo days are going to be coming to an end because I'll be gone for the summer, starting at the end of June, all being gone all summer.
• 3:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: You'll be at the other zoo.
• 3:44
  [SPEAKER_04]: I'll be at the other zoo.
• 3:46
  [SPEAKER_04]: The South, the South Hampton Zoo.
• 3:48
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's what's up with you, Maddie Boy.
• 3:52
  [SPEAKER_05]: Man, it has been good dude.
• 3:55
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm kind of coming out of the season of just, I've shared it on the pod, man.
• 3:59
  [SPEAKER_05]: Just being burnout and tired, running hard, you know, a lot of growth.
• 4:04
  [SPEAKER_05]: A lot of growth, a lot of scale, both in sports cards and an insurance, but just needing to kind of like breathe, right, and just needing to go, okay, I need to break.
• 4:12
  [SPEAKER_05]: So so did a bit of thing actually really excited about this part of like my passion of life is the water, I love the water and I had a boat for a while and let the boat go when we had our fifth kid and when I was in full time ministry and not really earning an income couldn't justify both.
• 4:30
  [SPEAKER_05]: So let it go and I've wanted a boat back for so long and we're in the final stages of getting a boat the hand boat there go Yeah, I'm super excited about it.
• 4:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: We live at the coast You know the ocean is two miles away.
• 4:44
  [SPEAKER_05]: We've got these dry storage places where they're like 4th lift your boat out of the water and put it up on the rack and you can put it in whatever you want to use it
• 4:50
  [SPEAKER_05]: A lot of islands around so you can cruise over the island and just throw anchor and just kind of chill for the day.
• 4:56
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's kind of lifestyle thing and with the kids being the ages there are they are man.
• 5:00
  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, like this weekend, we rode up to Durham, which is like two hours away to see my niece for her birthday.
• 5:06
  [SPEAKER_05]: And we'll Matt drove, actually.
• 5:08
  [SPEAKER_05]: And Liz and I were in the car and we were like, just reminiscing, we're like man, like it's like,
• 5:12
  [SPEAKER_05]: literally seems like yesterday we were having his second birthday and now he's 15 get ready to get his license and I just told her I was like I'm pulling the trigger like we're going to get the boat and we're going to enjoy because I mean Matthew has three more years and these don't high school the twins have four and then the girls arrive behind so we just wanted to kind of make this decision and invest in the family man you know a boat's not a fiscally wise investment
• 5:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's not something that's going to get Brent geared up over here because it's not a great investment vehicle, but it's an investment in memories and emotions and stuff.
• 5:44
  [SPEAKER_05]: So we're going to do that.
• 5:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: And that's a big, big thing for us and the Ham family this week.
• 5:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: Didn't Matt will get you high tonight.
• 5:51
  [SPEAKER_05]: Hey, baby, there will be plenty.
• 5:52
  [SPEAKER_05]: plenty of Billy Joel in that, but I can promise.
• 5:55
  [SPEAKER_05]: Good man.
• 5:56
  [SPEAKER_05]: On the greatest, it's actually, we're talking about this weekend.
• 5:58
  [SPEAKER_05]: One of my favorite concerts of all time was Billy Joel at MSG.
• 6:03
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yep.
• 6:03
  [SPEAKER_05]: When he 15, I guess?
• 6:05
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
• 6:05
  [SPEAKER_05]: I went there in 2015, too, actually.
• 6:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: Probably sitting beside each other.
• 6:09
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, we're probably the same one.
• 6:10
  [SPEAKER_05]: Eric getting New Yorker beside me, pissing me off, going, Yeah.
• 6:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I love you.
• 6:15
  [SPEAKER_04]: I used to wonder what Billy Joel ate before concerts.
• 6:17
  [SPEAKER_04]: I was like, did he eat Italian food or Chinese food?
• 6:20
  [SPEAKER_04]: It looked like it was just ate like a big meal.
• 6:22
  [SPEAKER_04]: So weird thing to think about.
• 6:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe we can, I haven't much y'all in an, and I ask him.
• 6:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: So I built it.
• 6:27
  [SPEAKER_05]: You see, before you're, yeah, yeah.
• 6:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: Before your chance.
• 6:29
  [SPEAKER_04]: That's what I wanted to know.
• 6:30
  [SPEAKER_05]: But yeah, that's a big, a big week for him house.
• 6:33
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's from a card stand point, man.
• 6:35
  [SPEAKER_05]: Actually, I've got some cool cards right now at PSA, and I'm waiting on them to come back.
• 6:39
  [SPEAKER_05]: I have a Barry Bonds 1993 Top's Finance Refractor.
• 6:44
  [SPEAKER_05]: I have a Carrot Congenior Legacy Rose Zero.
• 6:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: I have the Tiger Woods Sports Illustrated kids tear out, you know?
• 6:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: Nice.
• 6:55
  [SPEAKER_05]: First cards, I've got that at PSA.
• 6:59
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, no, I had to send them regular and I got him in before the deadline.
• 7:04
  [SPEAKER_05]: So they should be back next week.
• 7:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't seeing the bonds, but I thought the bonds might have gone crazy.
• 7:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: So that should be a good one for you.
• 7:10
  [SPEAKER_05]: It has gone nuts, man.
• 7:12
  [SPEAKER_05]: It has gone nuts.
• 7:12
  [SPEAKER_05]: So it's been good, man.
• 7:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: Just a little stuff like that.
• 7:14
  [SPEAKER_05]: Little Matt's actually back into the swing man summertime for him.
• 7:16
  [SPEAKER_05]: So he set a goal for himself for folks who don't follow us.
• 7:20
  [SPEAKER_05]: He did this thing.
• 7:20
  [SPEAKER_05]: He was challenged a mat to a million.
• 7:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: So he's trying to like,
• 7:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: They make a million dollars, I guess, in sports cars, but not me as a senior in high school.
• 7:27
  [SPEAKER_05]: And I'm like, I'm here for it, bro.
• 7:29
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm here for it, man.
• 7:30
  [SPEAKER_05]: You hustle and you go.
• 7:32
  [SPEAKER_05]: But anyway, enough on a hamhouse, man, our guest today is our buddy, a Britware, Brent.
• 7:37
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's good to have you back home or friend.
• 7:38
  [SPEAKER_05]: Looking forward to seeing you're going to be at FNAX Fest National.
• 7:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're going to be out and about.
• 7:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'll be definitely at the National.
• 7:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm probably not FNAX Fest.
• 7:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was there the last couple years and so.
• 7:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, good.
• 7:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: And the national will be where I'll be at.
• 7:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not awkward.
• 7:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is the fanatics fest is probably 70% in on sports cards.
• 7:55
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
• 7:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 7:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a great experience, especially if you're bringing kids, if you're going to experience like this.
• 8:00
  [SPEAKER_04]: It really is.
• 8:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: But once you've been a few times, you know, for me, the nationals just all cards, and like that's that'll be my focus this summer.
• 8:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, he sits one, it's since two of the three of us will be there, and, you know, there's other folks who won't be there.
• 8:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: I look forward to seeing you, Brent.
• 8:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, we're going to do, we're going to do some kind of hang where we get like, you know, the guys, the sports car, the senior, the guys, some of the guys that you've been working with, some pod guys, we're going to try to figure out a dinner thing, and we're going to charge current for it.
• 8:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: We're going to do that.
• 8:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: hotel restaurant bar lounge areas is pretty simple.
• 8:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm forgetting the one that I really like a lot.
• 8:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's kind of away from the show just a little bit.
• 8:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: I can't remember.
• 8:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's really nice when I don't give it, but it's got a great open restaurant bar area.
• 8:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: It'd be great to get people together.
• 8:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, we'll make it happen.
• 8:46
  [SPEAKER_05]: So what's been going on in your week, man?
• 8:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: What's been happening in your world since we chatted last?
• 8:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I've been building wire sports advisory.
• 8:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's been a lot of fun doing that, helping clients, you know, with portfolio advising for sports cards.
• 8:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, with so much going on right now in the hobby and so much money being invested right now.
• 9:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: I probably never seen so much money at risk.
• 9:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I've never seen so many big purchases before.
• 9:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: You look at these auctions and there's 15, 20, 25 pages of cards and you know there's just a lot of opportunity in a lot of ways that I can pull clients and some of them you know are avid listeners of your show and love your show and credit you guys for getting them back into the hobby one of them I had a call with recent ladies has called us from the amtons so current you might have
• 9:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: You guys might run into each other over there.
• 9:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it's just a really fun space to be in.
• 9:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: People are really taking it seriously.
• 9:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, when you're spending 20, 50, 100, 500k on a card, you're doing it alone without any advice from anybody else, without any, you know, strategy around it.
• 9:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's just, it's an interesting space.
• 9:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: What when you go ahead and I was going to say, man, I know you've been enjoying it and we certainly love here and how like the show has inspired and influenced connections right among the community like one of the things for us was creating community.
• 9:56
  [SPEAKER_05]: So when you see people that are connecting because of the community that you created and they're doing cool stuff like to me, that's always a marker of like second hand and third hand layers of influence right.
• 10:08
  [SPEAKER_05]: like we don't need to take credit for it but at the same time it's like it's happening because you made a decision to say yes to something like I think that that is beautiful man so I just wanted to say like thank you for doing your thing man and for connecting in for those listeners who have picked up with you but current go ahead.
• 10:22
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah no I was just going to ask like the clients that you have or the new clients that are coming in.
• 10:27
  [SPEAKER_04]: What do you is there are other any sort of like consistency similarities in what they're how they're currently buying that you're seeing?
• 10:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I would say there's there's a certain amount of them that came in through breaking, you know, that seems to be a theme come in what not come in through breaking fanatics live they accumulate a lot of cards and a lot of a lot of randomness to their collection that a lot of strategy and their collection a lot of.
• 10:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: mid tier cards, a lot of cards that are good, but if maybe great players, not great cards necessarily, and so I'll help with consolidating the collections into, you know, apex cards within the hierarchy of parallels versus mid tier cards.
• 11:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: In a lot of cards that are all the value of the cards in the grade and not a specific card, get them out of sticker auto, faded auto,
• 11:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: I might have a Kobe exquisite that they got in a break, but it's got a faded auto in that's not a 100 and it's not the one that a 50 like they should be in.
• 11:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: And some of these people have a significant amount of money and they have the resources, but you know, coming into this hobby, not exactly obvious what you should be buying and how to buy it.
• 11:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so you can easily get caught up in a money and only buying Kobe brand.
• 11:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: But then you have insignificant parts of them.
• 11:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it's
• 11:38
  [SPEAKER_04]: Are you also, so are you also like helping them strategize of how to get out of those of like where the best place to auction or sell those cards are as well?
• 11:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I'll help them with timing when they should be selling it.
• 11:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: What platform they should be selling it on?
• 11:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like one of my clients just had a win-be card in one Sunday night on fanatics.
• 11:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it was just incredible timing and it was a card that I don't believe in the card long-term regardless of your opinion on win-be.
• 12:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to say,
• 12:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, Cardi gotten a break and a sold for $30,000 and it was a card that was five or $10,000 a few months ago, right?
• 12:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: So the timing was perfect.
• 12:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, getting out of it wouldn't be going into the finals to me.
• 12:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was great versus waiting to see what happens.
• 12:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's a true story there.
• 12:18
  [SPEAKER_04]: There's a mix of taking that down.
• 12:19
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's a true story there.
• 12:20
  [SPEAKER_05]: We actually had a win be the ended on auction on Sunday night as well.
• 12:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: And it was a,
• 12:25
  [SPEAKER_05]: But any one in one downtown seal, maybe I think that was what was a little mad, it picked it up in a lot and you know, he paid pretty much comp on the car, and I think comp was probably like 45, 4700 something of that nature and he bought it in the lot.
• 12:39
  [SPEAKER_05]: He probably bought it a little bit right, but nonetheless put it on auction and specifically timed it with that whole thing.
• 12:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: Car went for like $7600 on auction.
• 12:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 12:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Another thing, another thing that's coming in my mind too, is that consolidate a amount of risk into one specific area.
• 12:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, players that are peaking right on the careers that are more modern, or they might have too much risk in one specific player.
• 13:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so helping them diversify out of only having, you know, modern players that are to me, it's more of very prospecting.
• 13:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: because I zoom out and I think about the hobby as a whole sports of the whole, so like a guy like a Bobby Witt to me is still a prospect in my mind if I'm looking at it from a sports fan.
• 13:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, he really hasn't done anything.
• 13:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: He hasn't proven anything significant if you're looking at it.
• 13:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: We spot historically.
• 13:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I try to my clients get their minds out of just a card, you know, being in the card and the hobby too much and thinking about like big picture.
• 13:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: So if you have an entire collection of just Bobby Witt, helping them understand how much risk is still
• 13:37
  [SPEAKER_05]: Who's like your like who would you be saying is is it is it with is it Otani is it when be like who's the guys what do you mean Like from a baseball perspective at least or basketball like who are the safe guy who are the safe guys The only eight between you said it's still prospecting right so like would you say Bobby what's still a prospect right now and your mind with this
• 13:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: And to me, I like a Julio a Bobby with no Vlad Guerrero like in my mind when I'm thinking historically looking at baseball and if these career if their careers ended today, what would they even matter and they wouldn't matter that much I agree they haven't accomplished enough in my mind too, they haven't accomplished enough to even weren't with where like Bobby's market is right now to be honest.
• 14:19
  [SPEAKER_04]: He hasn't really done anything his numbers are good, but he hasn't done anything.
• 14:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're really frontloading the risk.
• 14:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're like a stock option where you're taking on all that risk up front.
• 14:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: And as that stock option ages over time, it has time to pay.
• 14:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so these players that same way, like they better increase and better continue to get better and whip better when an MVP, they're this year next year.
• 14:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because you frontloaded all that risk up front and paid such a high price for it, that it's just, I want my clients to understand what they're in.
• 14:49
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah.
• 14:50
  [SPEAKER_05]: The delineate between, I mean, I love what you said, Julio, Blad, you know, if we're going on the baseball side, flip that into somebody who you start to go, they're not in that camp.
• 15:01
  [SPEAKER_05]: They're in the historical camp.
• 15:03
  [SPEAKER_05]: It leads moving in that direction.
• 15:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: right that's that's you guys mentioned some of these guys and you know I'm I'm older so I I'd look at you know curse shot and I look at very lander and I look at guys like that I look at buster posey and joe malware and I look at their first bone and autos and you know there's been a lot of great opportunities these guys for years but you're seeing their their cards going up and up and up and up you know mokey bets
• 15:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: you know, rice harbour, you know, like those are the tears of guys might trout.
• 15:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've been avoiding Otany unfortunately and has been wrong for a little while.
• 15:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: To me, I think there's a lot of risk when a player is making in their career and the hard market is as hot as a day.
• 15:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: To me, it's a
• 15:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like a double storm and we haven't really seen this that much before where a guy is like really peaking They're becoming an all-time great in a super hot sports card market.
• 15:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, when these prices, I posted some stories of looking at y'all and this is prices in 2022.
• 15:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was kind of the same thing, same situation and his stuff's down 80% since then.
• 16:00
  [SPEAKER_05]: So to that Janice conversation, Matthew and I have this conversation.
• 16:03
  [SPEAKER_05]: Matthew made the point to me.
• 16:04
  [SPEAKER_05]: He said, Dad, Janice is one of the top 20 players of all time.
• 16:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: And I said, no, I don't think he's top 20.
• 16:08
  [SPEAKER_05]: I said he's not far outside of that.
• 16:11
  [SPEAKER_05]: But he was making the point that he's a great buy right now based on his value.
• 16:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: And I was kind of coming back going like, he's kind of that guy who I don't know how much historical significance he's going to have.
• 16:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: You know what I mean?
• 16:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: Long-to-be.
• 16:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: So I think if somebody
• 16:27
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, maybe like moochy bets, right?
• 16:29
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like, you know, again, I think about like Ryan Sandberg when I was growing up and, you know, Fred McGriff, guys like this who are Hall of Famers, but like from a hobby perspective, they don't have the collectability, you know what I'm saying?
• 16:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: And so like it's really interesting when you have that combination of
• 16:46
  [SPEAKER_05]: historical, you know, the, the lure, the storyline and the collectability kind of merges, you know what I mean?
• 16:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: To create kind of this, this thing, which is this asset, you know what I mean?
• 16:58
  [SPEAKER_05]: And I think it's still to be told on certain guys.
• 17:01
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm glad you.
• 17:02
  [SPEAKER_04]: So Brent will so from a baseball perspective and curious where you stand, if somebody was looking to get into, like they wanted to get from go from basketball, collecting to baseball, collecting, where would you steer them towards, who would you steer them towards and what cards of theirs would you steer them towards?
• 17:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so my investment framework, as always, I think about the specific card, the parallel, the hierarchy of the parallels in the set.
• 17:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, being a first woman, auto to me is really important, being a red orange, true red, true orange, you know, super fractor, dynasty.
• 17:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: I really like a lot, but one of one dynasty, specifically with nice all those on them.
• 17:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: So that's where I initially start to steer somebody to, and it also depends on who they're excited about, who they like, and then having an educated
• 17:47
  [SPEAKER_04]: So where do you put, um, because there's obviously just debate and then, well, it's probably if the debate that I have in my mind, but I've heard it debate it elsewhere, like the debate, debut patch compared to the superfactor.
• 17:58
  [SPEAKER_04]: Where would you steer somebody towards from a, if they had the option of the same player?
• 18:02
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so I, it's the price.
• 18:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: I have to have them pick that yet.
• 18:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you can get your hands on either of them, I think that would be a great situation depending on who the player is.
• 18:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, what you're paying, I think it's really important to you to always have boundaries around your collecting and what you're willing to pay for something and understanding where the price should be.
• 18:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: So sometimes, with these debut patches and super fractures, you know, as some of you guys know, people will just get emotional about and pay whatever it takes to get it.
• 18:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you're seeing not on the private market, too.
• 18:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm seeing some massive massive overpays in the private market, and it just scares me because it's just the wild west right now and, you know, you can just pay whatever you want for one of one, and people seem to be doing it because.
• 18:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: They have the money, but should they be paying that as another question?
• 18:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
• 18:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Look at, you know, you say you pay a certain amount for a superfactor and then you see the red cell for 10% of that.
• 18:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like that, that should make you quite scary.
• 18:51
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
• 18:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 18:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Open pay for the superfactor.
• 18:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's always a comp.
• 18:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: I out.
• 18:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, my clients, there's always a comp.
• 18:56
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
• 18:56
  [SPEAKER_05]: you know it's interesting about all this I always talk about this on the show and for those who listen regularly they know I always relate the card market to my experience in the secondary bourbon market right so like you know I live in a controlled state which means the state regulates how many bottles of bourbon we get it's not like New York City or I don't know what it's like out west but I mean you can go on a store probably find something on the shelf you're going to pay secondary pricing for it
• 19:20
  [SPEAKER_05]: But like here, you go get a bottle of Pappy Van Linkle.
• 19:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: You're going to pay $200 for it if you find it at retail.
• 19:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: But that same bottle does $2,000 in the secondary market, right?
• 19:30
  [SPEAKER_05]: But again, it's not that the bourbon is that good from a consumer standpoint.
• 19:35
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's the idea that I have it and you don't.
• 19:38
  [SPEAKER_05]: Because it's a rare, you know, the mean limited production bottle.
• 19:41
  [SPEAKER_05]: And it has this kind of aura with it of like, oh, I've got a bottle of Pappy.
• 19:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: And I can afford it.
• 19:46
  [SPEAKER_05]: So I'm going to therefore pay for it or whatever.
• 19:49
  [SPEAKER_05]: And what you saw in the bourbon market though, is it cooled off significantly, you know, because the the manufacturer started making more the scarcity wasn't really there and so the pricing of these bottles is like come down a ton, but the the patty then Lincoln is kind of like held its own so when you think about like elite tier cards.
• 20:10
  [SPEAKER_05]: you've talked about, you know, the modern boom and red, orange, whatever, but Brett, you know, I love the kind of middle market of the 90s we talk about this where if somebody wants to get in, like, do you have a magic number?
• 20:25
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like if somebody came to you and said, you know, hey, I want to kind of start putting some money into cards.
• 20:29
  [SPEAKER_05]: Do you have a number where you say, like, in order for it to make a difference in order for it to make an impact, you're going to need to bring this much to the table from like an investment.
• 20:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: You know what I mean, standpoint?
• 20:37
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
• 20:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm really big on owning significant cards of players, regardless of who the player is.
• 20:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, you look at the honey market.
• 20:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm seeing a lot of insignificant cards selling for significant, and it scares the crop out of me because it's crazy.
• 20:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not significant cards, but what's really fun about what I do is, because I'm such an avid baseball basketball and football collector when I get obsessed with all three, I can take somebody with
• 21:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: you know a bobby with update sapphire something fill in the blank in this thirty forty k and I can put them in a twenty four karat gold patent and rookie card with the same money and so it's it's really fun to sit with clients because they can be very my optic about what they're looking at and they get into like a very specific lane now ask me about a card and if they'll talk to me about the last column and if they should pay this for it and they like hold on let's zoom out like what could you do for that money like what's up
• 21:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: all.
• 21:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, did you know you could get one of Peyton Manning's best rookie cards for that same amount of money that you're paying for a Bobby with?
• 21:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: And like their minds just like really open up and it's a lot of fun.
• 21:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're not, they're not, they're not usually aware of that because whatever they come in, whatever land they're really excited about is where they tend to stick and they they don't really understand we could get in a 90s kangaroo junior for what they're paying for you know, a Roman Anthony Red right now.
• 21:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it's one of the help them expand their minds around
• 21:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: So can we talk about, is there actually a relevant modern football court?
• 21:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, defense of what you think of modern, but, you know, the homes is 2017.
• 22:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I'd say moms is extremely relevant.
• 22:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then you got, there's definitely a lot of relevance to you.
• 22:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Look at the Georgetown and million dollar car that just sold, you know, that the shield real good.
• 22:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: That can't be like, like, my can't wrap my mind around that being justified.
• 22:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, there's a lot of that going on in the market right now.
• 22:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of sales that I just, I can't wrap my head around it either.
• 22:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I just have to stay in my land speaking of what we're just talking about and not get too worried about.
• 22:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of cartoon cards and just stuff that like, I don't really get it.
• 22:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so that's not what I'm excited about.
• 22:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: One of the things I talked to my clients about, too, is sometimes just follow your excitement.
• 22:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, other options available to you of the lanes available to you being small basketball football.
• 22:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: different players like which one excites you because if it excites you you'll stay engaged you'll stay yeah you'll stay like loving it you won't get burned out I'll talk to some clients who are wealthy guys and they're they're busy and they're you know they're stressed about a $300 card or a $40 profit here and they're and I can just tell they're not excited about it they've like they're getting burned out from the hobby it's a help to redirect them around like hey this is the fourth time we've talked about this $400 card and you're worth millions of dollars
• 23:14
  [SPEAKER_05]: declutter and you know yeah and I want to kind of clarify my statement here about modern football like I have become a become very disenchanted with the modern football market like and and I get Allen or my homes but like everybody else man waiting yeah and again I would say Brady's not modern to me I mean I'm sitting here looking at him is like you know he's the Jordan of football you know in in my mind
• 23:37
  [SPEAKER_05]: Most of my clients I'm getting into like the Randy Mosses, the Brady's, the Peyton, you know, the Calvin Johnson's like that kind of era that yeah, I think you know, when you people got torched by the Joe Burrows by the, you know, the two is by the, you know, the quarterback the next guy.
• 23:56
  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, even going into the strides or the, you know, whoever it is, you know, and it's just, it doesn't seem sustainable to me, and I think the hobby's gotten smarter with folks like yourself, Brent, who are going wait a second.
• 24:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: Why are we paying, you know, Drake may pricing, but I can go get, you know,
• 24:14
  [SPEAKER_04]: Manning you know more rare card of painting manning for the same numbers because everybody has the dream of them becoming that right and that that's what it's about like that's why that's why they justified in their own heads Yeah, I think in football.
• 24:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: You don't want to be early.
• 24:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: You want to be late I tell you the time like everyone needs to stop trying to be so early be late You know some of the the top Brady collectors that you know say say they're they're in so early.
• 24:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're in after me one like four supermoles
• 24:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: right.
• 24:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: They weren't in early.
• 24:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, like people weren't in on Tom Brady in 2003 and five.
• 24:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're in on Tom Brady in 2016, 18, and they say our early were, he had won.
• 24:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: I super bulls.
• 24:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, but in the baseball market, it's similar.
• 24:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like it's the front loading of the risk.
• 24:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, first home and autos have that same thing.
• 25:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: you know you're paying big money for a guy that's 1819 and he hasn't proven anything it's the same thing in football but you know there's just a lot of clutter.
• 25:08
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah the different the difference in baseball is is in my mind in the moment first you're 100% right but the difference is that they have at least time right like they don't need to become a star and I say that all the time but like with the NFL quarterbacks they're
• 25:22
  [SPEAKER_04]: the majority of them are going right into the starting position on an NFL team at 20 years old, 21 years old, where they have to have a media access or a drops like I prefer to pay up for, I would prefer to pay up for 1819 year olds because they have like two to three years for me to develop and can have that hype cycle at least.
• 25:41
  [SPEAKER_04]: You don't have that in the NFL with quarterbacks.
• 25:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, that's a great point in this.
• 25:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's what makes prospecting and first of all in so much fun because you do have that runway because the reality is once they get to the pros they're probably going to fail just like the quarterbacks do.
• 25:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you have a couple of years before that happens to have some fun and watch some of the develop and play with their cards and move around and move.
• 26:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I agree, I, I'm not a big believer in the super modern football market.
• 26:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't buy a lot of super modern football cards, you know,
• 26:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: every once in a while like I have a client that you know you wanted to get into a Brady card and there is a great mini black Brady in the last Natic's premiere as a one of one game use Paul Chmado on cardado just beautiful card.
• 26:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: I felt like it was a little under the radar access, but it was a one of one and you got it for around 50k.
• 26:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think it was a incredible card and I helped advise them on what his strategy should be around pricing and identifying that as a great opportunity that card was a great opportunity.
• 26:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think anything Brady game used with uncarrotters, very difficult to find, and there's a lot of one way for those still.
• 26:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I consider that still kind of modern because I'm old.
• 26:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it's Mia 2020, 2014, 2018, like that kind of range to me.
• 26:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Still modern.
• 26:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 26:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Me is still modern.
• 26:52
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I think I always think of Tom Brady as modern, but then the guys now are the ultramodder, right?
• 26:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, there's some, there's some language, sorry, go ahead.
• 27:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't cut you off, right?
• 27:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Go ahead.
• 27:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like the Jaden Daniels and the CJ staff, every year there's the next guy, like you can already see it's Jackson Dart now.
• 27:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, he's going to go one and just mean, but you know, bleeding up, he's going to be the Super Bowl winner at the national, like every, every young boy.
• 27:17
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, there's always a guy.
• 27:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: I wonder if the giant's owner will come and buy the one of one Jackson Dardet fanatics.
• 27:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 27:24
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
• 27:24
  [SPEAKER_05]: Really?
• 27:25
  [SPEAKER_05]: I didn't realize they did that.
• 27:27
  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, it's great.
• 27:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: The marketing and this, this hobby, it's fancy.
• 27:30
  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm chated Daniels.
• 27:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know.
• 27:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm that card worth now, the Jaden Glengels.
• 27:35
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, nothing.
• 27:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, nothing, nothing.
• 27:38
  [SPEAKER_05]: What's interesting about this Brent is like, so, so talk to me about
• 27:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm going to make you go back further than you want to go back and I'm going to make you talk about not the so card manufacturers got smart in the 90s and they started producing rare cards you know that were hidden within the packs okay that didn't exist in the you know 50s 60s 70s even 80s Bo Jackson's one of my all-time favorite athletes I think he's just iconic he was just the it means a dude when I was growing up you know
• 28:11
  [SPEAKER_05]: But every single quarterback Jackson was mass-produced.
• 28:14
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, you know, I mean, so it's like who cares if I have the score, you know, with the bat on the shoulders.
• 28:19
  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, you know, it's a PSA 10 for $400 because there's a good Jillian of them.
• 28:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: And I have a hard time even trying to collect any bow Jackson because there's so many of his cards out there.
• 28:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: You know what I mean.
• 28:29
  [SPEAKER_05]: I have a hard time paying prices for PSA 10 because it's stupid to me.
• 28:33
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's like subjectively.
• 28:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: That's a 10 you're going to put a premium on it.
• 28:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: You know what I mean.
• 28:37
  [SPEAKER_05]: So how do you personally encourage folks to find value in cards in that era of 60 70s 80s that were so overproduced.
• 28:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think, it depends.
• 28:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: So 50s and 60s, you know, especially 50s, I appeals become a big, fun thing for people to do as Emily complexity to a very simplified set, right?
• 28:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: So they're all the same.
• 29:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: The only thing that makes a card unique or rare is the grade.
• 29:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: But if you're adding in the complexity of I appeal,
• 29:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: For example, if I'm getting 52 types of mantle, that's really centered in the CPSA 3 and it looks as nice as a PSA 6.
• 29:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now I'm having some fun and adding some complexity because I'm gaming the system a little bit because PSA has to follow certain standards when I can look at I appeal and find a beautiful and your valued card and a vintage card.
• 29:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: So there's that aspect which I think is a lot of fun.
• 29:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, when you get into 70s and 80s, again, you can start
• 29:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, things doubled over the last year.
• 29:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, you are seeing appreciation in these cards, like the Tiffany Barry Bonds.
• 29:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: The thing that Bo Jackson tough is he's not any of those great 90 sets, like Barry Bonds.
• 29:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you're seeing Barry Bonds and Griffey and Geterl, those guys really taking off in some of these 90 sets, because the rookies are in those boring sets that have no parallels.
• 29:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, there's no serial numbering.
• 29:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so there's just none of them.
• 29:59
  [SPEAKER_05]: So talk to me about this.
• 30:00
  [SPEAKER_05]: You know I'm a car rip king guy.
• 30:01
  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, and that but current jump in like I'm not trying to bug art the conversation I'm just talking like I'm I'm literally unhinged 90s baseball.
• 30:09
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so hey, I was going through my old cars this weekend at my parents.
• 30:13
  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I went all lean when I was a kid on Frank Thomas Like thousands of cards of his I collected every insert that's worth like two dollars, but
• 30:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's got a great essential credentials now that's real number to I can't remember if it's eight or nine or I think I have one that's you I sent it to you the other day, but I don't know what it's number to 35 maybe you're
• 30:32
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
• 30:33
  [SPEAKER_05]: So again, I love what distinguishes someone from being a collectible asset, then just bidding like a guy, right?
• 30:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: So you just mentioned 90s, right?
• 30:44
  [SPEAKER_05]: And you mentioned Griffey, you mentioned Jeter, you mentioned bonds, right?
• 30:49
  [SPEAKER_05]: I was always a big coward, continue your fan.
• 30:51
  [SPEAKER_05]: And, and, for me personally, like it could be a personal vendetta, if you will, I'm like, he is the Iron Man.
• 30:57
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's a record that'll never be broken.
• 30:59
  [SPEAKER_05]: He's a two-time MVP.
• 31:01
  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, he was a world series, you know, winner.
• 31:05
  [SPEAKER_05]: And I'm sitting here going like, man, I feel like he doesn't get, he has the most home runs at the short stop position in the history of the game.
• 31:10
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like, but I feel like he doesn't necessarily get the collectible love, right, as those other guys do.
• 31:16
  [SPEAKER_05]: So when you're starting to look back, and again, click what you like, right?
• 31:19
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like,
• 31:19
  [SPEAKER_05]: If you follow Vince Carter, like go collect Vince Carter or, you know, Anthony Hardaway or whoever it is, but like what starts to distinguish in your perspective Brent a true collectible guy versus just a guy that was good that maybe the hobby doesn't appreciate.
• 31:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, most of the time is pretty obvious, you know, most of the time you just know whether a guy is somebody that people care about or not, you know, people care about cow rip and junior, but for me, I'd be more focused like we've talked about this in the past on the set.
• 31:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, if you get caught, what can junior in a great set?
• 31:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now you're protected by the collectability of the set and the player.
• 31:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: So if Kyle looked in junior hat in essential credentials now at a five or 10, that'd be a highly desirable card.
• 31:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't have that.
• 31:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: His precious metal gems to 50 is a great card or his masterpieces.
• 32:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's got one of ones and he's got some, he's got some great cards out there.
• 32:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I would be more focused for a guy like Kyle Rippkin, the less collectible the player is, the more you got to focus on the importance of the set and the significance of that.
• 32:16
  [SPEAKER_04]: Brent does Frank Thomas have any PMGs?
• 32:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he's got a he's got one that just sold instantly for I want to say 50 to 60 thousand dollars is 98 PMG and then he's got this central credentials now that's we're all numbered to less than 10 that did I want to say 90 K. Oh well, so you know it's not as rookie cards that are the desired most desirable cards, those those kind of cards that are really slow.
• 32:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, good.
• 32:39
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, no, I was going to ask you like everybody's everybody's always looking for the next
• 32:46
  [SPEAKER_04]: Um, it feels like maybe I'm just not in this world, but it feels like PMGs are getting more and more popular amongst collectors like is there anything in your mind that that could be that next wave of a PMG that's like maybe not as sought after right now that could be that like and not saying it's the anime, but like something along those lines right like of like like, like
• 33:09
  [SPEAKER_04]: What is something will take off at some point?
• 33:11
  [SPEAKER_04]: That's not as popular as it was now.
• 33:14
  [SPEAKER_04]: That's not as popular now, and it will be then.
• 33:17
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, what is that?
• 33:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's what's so interesting is then you look at some of the old Beckham magazines and some of the PMGs weren't even a top 10 desirable card.
• 33:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it's it's pretty interesting when you look at that.
• 33:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: I would say a lot of people a lot of the talk Wow has been around 2012 prison gold's you know, it's more about the parallel now in the set You know PMGs were a lot of one-off debts like the red and green PMGs for basketball is a one-year thing So I I love the flier brilliant swing for a carrot bowl.
• 33:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's a great set.
• 33:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's just not been taken
• 33:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: prefering our modern stuff is more of like the we've got to think of more of like low within the slot.
• 33:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: So prison gold, Satan and Black Friday night at one of one's caboom golds, you know, people are all trying to predict that.
• 34:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: The difference now is they're already priced so high.
• 34:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, they're not.
• 34:10
  [SPEAKER_05]: There's no value built-in.
• 34:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not like you're like trying to guess that what's going to be all prison gold.
• 34:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're already paying for it.
• 34:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: As if it is the next one, G. So.
• 34:20
  [SPEAKER_05]: Right did that was that was classic right in the middle there earned high daddy.
• 34:24
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, my daddy.
• 34:25
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's exactly So so Britain, you know this this whole thing about like the next trend in the hobby right like finding the deep dive one of the things that little Matt and I talk about quite frequent how like Michael Gordon
• 34:38
  [SPEAKER_05]: Michael Jordan inserts.
• 34:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: We got this great sheet here that kind of like higher arc he's Michael Jordan inserts.
• 34:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like most of those inserts have been gotten and they've become unattainable.
• 34:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like you're you're not going to get, I mean the Jordan PMGs, the the you know all of them,
• 34:53
  [SPEAKER_05]: even though the rose zeros or the essential credentials, you know, those, those Jordans are on a table for, for most folks.
• 35:01
  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, again, if you're, if you're rolling, you know, the mean with with nine figures and you just want to go, you know, ball out and just go get something you can.
• 35:08
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
• 35:09
  [SPEAKER_05]: But when you start to go deeper into the inserts and stuff and you're trying to find value within those inserts, how do you start to dab a little bit beyond the kind of like, and I get the big sets, but I'm saying like, I'm sorry, but the most people couldn't afford a $15,000, you know, PNG, you know, but they might be able to get spend three to four to $5,000 on a.
• 35:32
  [SPEAKER_05]: lower population, you know, lower tier and how do you start to find value there?
• 35:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's no different than how you would find value there.
• 35:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, like as long as you understand the hierarchy, if you if you feel like you found a set that's not, you know, on the news all the time is not being promoted by every single Instagram account and you feel like a great example to me that I think about is Chris McGill, the one of the founders of card later.
• 35:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: great Michael Jordan collector, you know, he had all the girls that you just listed and by the way, they are all attainable, which is kind of what turns some people off.
• 36:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, the Jordan is sealed number to 90 the Red PNG.
• 36:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: And they're, they're always at venibles, just whether you want the pool for or not.
• 36:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: But what he really did is he started shifting to some of the late 90s upper deck cards with the 101s that are never talking about.
• 36:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, the upper debt goal of 1999.
• 36:19
  [SPEAKER_04]: And I didn't even know those existed.
• 36:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't either.
• 36:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: And if you notice on your little hierarchy poster, they don't even list the one of ones, right?
• 36:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: So what he did is he did a total Zach away from anything on that poster and he wants everything that's not on that poster.
• 36:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: And they're all one of ones they're just never talked about and I'm pretty sure he was picking up stuff for 10 to 20 25 K I'm not I'm not positive he's never told me this but when he get in on early on something that people aren't really paying attention to you know I'm sure they're way more now because he brought a lot of attention to it but I think you you have to be able to like lag sometimes.
• 36:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know what, if there's posters about this, if there's a hierarchy determined by everybody else and everyone knows it and those cards are always available, how can I be different?
• 37:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: And he chose to go with a different land.
• 37:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think he even owns many of those cards anymore.
• 37:09
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I'm a Jag, I'm in a Jag mode right now.
• 37:12
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like I'm honestly in like Zag mode, Harvey mode right now, like I'm not, you know, I'm not excited about Bowman prospects right now.
• 37:19
  [SPEAKER_05]: We sold out a most of our stuff.
• 37:21
  [SPEAKER_05]: We've kind of tapped into some Jordan stuff.
• 37:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: And I'm in a total Zag mode right now, and little Matt's not, little Matt's just like, still lists a scribe and let's go, right?
• 37:29
  [SPEAKER_05]: And he's like, you're grumpy, man.
• 37:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, you see, tomato.
• 37:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is what he's excited about it.
• 37:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: He hit his statement when someone's excited about something.
• 37:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: When I get excited about something, like, I'm insatiable than that of time and energy I'll put into it.
• 37:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: So you got to be excited.
• 37:44
  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, passion drives it.
• 37:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: You know what I mean?
• 37:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: And I've been looking for a red, Gaudy Ruth for the longest time.
• 37:49
  [SPEAKER_05]: Just a red Gaudy Ruth.
• 37:51
  [SPEAKER_05]: It was one cart that I want.
• 37:52
  [SPEAKER_05]: And we've got a really good friend of mine that has one.
• 37:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: And he won't even like, Consider selling it to me, you know?
• 37:57
  [SPEAKER_05]: Nope.
• 38:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, especially this guy great.
• 38:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: I feel it does.
• 38:02
  [SPEAKER_05]: No, it's it's got great.
• 38:03
  [SPEAKER_04]: I feel those cards are all of them.
• 38:05
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's best.
• 38:05
  [SPEAKER_04]: I paid a thousand bucks for that card.
• 38:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: Got to love that.
• 38:08
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, there's no.
• 38:09
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's a re-taker turn.
• 38:12
  [SPEAKER_04]: Nope.
• 38:12
  [SPEAKER_05]: So, current, you got, what else you got?
• 38:14
  [SPEAKER_04]: Obviously, we've talked a lot of different sports.
• 38:17
  [SPEAKER_04]: And I do want to give in the nature of our podcast.
• 38:21
  [SPEAKER_04]: I do want to talk Bowman a little bit.
• 38:22
  [SPEAKER_04]: And I want to hear Bren's thoughts on Bowman.
• 38:25
  [SPEAKER_04]: I know you're a big, Mike, trout guy.
• 38:27
  [SPEAKER_04]: But where do you stand on Bowman, you know, collectability?
• 38:31
  [SPEAKER_04]: I know you're not, you're probably not a big prospect guy, right?
• 38:34
  [SPEAKER_04]: But where do you stand like is it still better to be late on that front?
• 38:37
  [SPEAKER_04]: Like it is on the quarterback front, like we were talking about, or where do you stand?
• 38:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, if you're playing the game where they're true prospects and they're not called up yet and they're not actually playing, then that's a whole different story than buying a guy that's in his year two, three or four.
• 38:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, let's take a Roman Anthony, for example.
• 38:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now,
• 38:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now that he's already up and playing in this prices are sky high, you know, now he's got to have to maintain that and I just don't think that's likely for 99 years to maintain it.
• 39:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: So that scares me and I, I'll, I'd be out, right?
• 39:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like it wouldn't be a hold of Romney.
• 39:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it wouldn't be a sleep at night.
• 39:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Roman Anthony single air double a like you're saying earlier, very different.
• 39:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I'd rather looking at Mike trout now, mooky bets now, like in per shot now, they're landed now and knowing that like, yeah, they're not going to have some massive overnight swing.
• 39:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, if you look at the mooky bets more, what is mooky bets really done last couple years?
• 39:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's pretty significant.
• 39:37
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, not much other than when championships, nothing, you know, like nutty.
• 39:41
  [SPEAKER_04]: like he's is numbers are not great.
• 39:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he's been hurt constantly last couple years.
• 39:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 39:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: His numbers haven't been great and yet his look at his first boom and reds.
• 39:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: They've doubled in the last couple years.
• 39:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: His goal doubled last couple years.
• 39:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I would rather look at stuff like that.
• 39:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: I love
• 39:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, like, I would call it like modern vintage, when I'd see like a red manning machado first Bowman Auto with a nice auto on it, or like an orange, Bryce Morper, first Bowman Auto, just understanding the history of those understanding what's years are their first Bowman, like Bryce Harper's first Bowman is in a USA uniform.
• 40:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then his first Bowman Auto is actually the following year in 2000.
• 40:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 40:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so like that's so cool to me and like understanding which sets are the sets that you want.
• 40:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Man, immature 2010 it like it's I love that stuff 2014, mokey bats and understanding the parallels then the purples were at a 10 now they're to 250 and so that gets I get excited about that.
• 40:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: They gotta be like later in your career, you know, Paul Goldschmidt, where it's like pretty defined going to be a Hall of Famer, they're not all the hype out now.
• 40:41
  [SPEAKER_04]: They're not pretty Freeman.
• 40:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Freddie Freeman, another great.
• 40:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was buying Freddie Freeman for years and you're so too.
• 40:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's so cheap.
• 40:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't like they're giving them away.
• 40:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was paying all 2,500 bucks for orange for Spominados.
• 40:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and it's like I am.
• 40:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: didn't make any sense to mean vlads were doing like 200k at that one point was 500k.
• 40:59
  [SPEAKER_04]: See the prospecting part of it is fun for me right and getting out beforehand before they're called up but there are certain guys where you can't help but wonder like one of them's going to hit right like
• 41:10
  [SPEAKER_04]: has to call up, and if you hold long term, like it's king those right ones, right?
• 41:15
  [SPEAKER_04]: Like, I like I talked about this all the time.
• 41:17
  [SPEAKER_04]: I sold the Roman to early, right?
• 41:19
  [SPEAKER_04]: Like, I undersold that card significantly.
• 41:21
  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm glad I don't have it now, but I still undersold it by not holding it through his first season.
• 41:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I was going to rent because he had a zoom block.
• 41:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: He got to look at it as a big picture.
• 41:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: So every Roman Anthony, there was another 10 that you sold that you're super happy that it flopped.
• 41:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 41:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, when I'm helping clients this the same way if they if they have a hundred thousand dollars in modern cubies and we're coming up to the season starting and like just get out of all of it.
• 41:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
• 41:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: The might start out for no and sure maybe goes up 20% but like get out of all of it because overall you're going to do well.
• 41:53
  [SPEAKER_04]: So another question I have, I want to open up the discussion on from a baseball perspective, you mentioned top dynasty before.
• 41:59
  [SPEAKER_04]: So obviously a very premium product, very expensive product, and really nice looking.
• 42:05
  [SPEAKER_04]: I've never gotten to top dynasty, and I'm probably, I'm definitely in the minority here, but the reason I haven't is
• 42:14
  [SPEAKER_04]: If it's going to be game-used and labeled as game-used, I want it to be authenticated with an MLB hologram.
• 42:22
  [SPEAKER_04]: I just maybe I'm just skeptical, maybe I'm just a negative Nancy here.
• 42:28
  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know, I'd much rather, I know it doesn't have to hold the value in the market, probably short-term, and not probably long-term for that matter, because it comes from a much less premium set, but take, for example, inception,
• 42:43
  [SPEAKER_04]: to have MLB authentication where you can go online and look at it.
• 42:45
  [SPEAKER_04]: You know what's in there.
• 42:47
  [SPEAKER_04]: You know what's in there.
• 42:47
  [SPEAKER_04]: Like, dynasty when you're being such a high price for something.
• 42:52
  [SPEAKER_04]: And it's just being told this game used.
• 42:54
  [SPEAKER_04]: Like, I don't like that.
• 42:56
  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't like that.
• 42:57
  [SPEAKER_04]: And I don't know what your thoughts are.
• 42:59
  [SPEAKER_04]: Collectors clearly don't care, but I do personally.
• 43:03
  [SPEAKER_04]: Like, I just don't want to buy something unless it's authenticated.
• 43:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 43:07
  [SPEAKER_04]: And I know exactly where it's from.
• 43:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: There was a cheater that sold other night on eBay as a 2017 blue dynasty and it had the hologram on the it was a one of one and how the hologram on the patch, which I thought was pretty cool.
• 43:20
  [SPEAKER_04]: That is cool.
• 43:21
  [SPEAKER_04]: It was from that's different.
• 43:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's from now on 11, 2005.
• 43:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it was a really interesting moment and they listed on it.
• 43:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, typically, you know, you look at the basketball market and you look at exquisite, for example, 2003 to 2009, or all it says it's mean, that's, that's what the standard is and that's usually it will say now associated for the modern stuff.
• 43:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you look some of the old new stuff staying game used on it is what people go by.
• 43:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you're right.
• 43:46
  [SPEAKER_04]: No, like, what game, you know, even sometimes it doesn't say if it's the player to pick it on the card, that's what I'm saying, when you're paying such a significant price for it, just it seems very, I don't know, maybe I'm, again, I just get the call of it.
• 44:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's just certain levels of risk that we accept in the sports card market.
• 44:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: And if it says game used, you're just you're even just trusting the card market that the card company, too, that it is game used.
• 44:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, sting also.
• 44:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: you know, you don't always know for sure.
• 44:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I'll just levels of if it says game use on a chord and it's a patch auto like a Brady, for example, like it's in Boston 14 flawless.
• 44:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: It says game use on the bow patch auto.
• 44:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: You just gotta go with it.
• 44:25
  [SPEAKER_04]: And I'll give you an example.
• 44:26
  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not gonna name names.
• 44:27
  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not gonna name sets here, but like there's
• 44:30
  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, I spoke to an athlete on a baseball player.
• 44:33
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's not my trap.
• 44:34
  [SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, that reminds me of another baseball player.
• 44:37
  [SPEAKER_04]: When there was a set release that had something that was used in it, and I asked them, you know, I was like, oh, that's, that's really cool.
• 44:46
  [SPEAKER_04]: And they're like, that's not my, that 100% not that I have that.
• 44:51
  [SPEAKER_04]: You know what I mean?
• 44:52
  [SPEAKER_04]: I have that.
• 44:53
  [SPEAKER_04]: That's when I became skeptical of it and like that's some crazy shit Yeah, well, that's some crazy shit like I wouldn't and people are paying premiums for that It's not it was just from a practice never that's all I'll say, but that's where I became skeptical
• 45:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: Let me let me share a story here with you boys before I I've been wanting to get this out for a minute I thought it was hilarious that Brett said, you know, if he owned rum and Anthony He couldn't sleep at night and current couldn't sleep at night because he sold rum and Anthony I was like that.
• 45:21
  [SPEAKER_05]: I love the contrast here So I wanted to do you guys a true story.
• 45:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: This is a wild story Probably one of the craziest sports card stories that I've ever ever.
• 45:27
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm gonna share this on the episode I don't care what can't feedback it gets whatever it's it has go real.
• 45:32
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm gonna show this with you guys at the national
• 45:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: little Matt and I bought a curry, Steph Curry, 9.5 B. Joe this story, go on, yeah.
• 45:41
  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
• 45:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: It was a flawless, right?
• 45:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: Number 15, Steph Curry patch auto and a BGST.
• 45:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
• 45:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: We buy it.
• 45:49
  [SPEAKER_05]: It might have been a P.A.
• 45:50
  [SPEAKER_05]: B. G. S. Not.
• 45:51
  [SPEAKER_05]: It was not an odd value.
• 45:53
  [SPEAKER_05]: We'd bring it back.
• 45:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, okay.
• 45:55
  [SPEAKER_05]: And we put it up on our story, like, oh, cool pick up.
• 45:59
  [SPEAKER_05]: And somebody's like,
• 46:04
  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know, probably a couple grand, you know, a pretty quick turn, but it was, it was a couple grand.
• 46:08
  [SPEAKER_05]: We sold the card, right?
• 46:09
  [SPEAKER_05]: Didn't think anything else overnight, it done, deal, whatever.
• 46:12
  [SPEAKER_05]: About a week later, the guy comes back and he's like, hey, by the way, I want to refund on this card card.
• 46:19
  [SPEAKER_05]: And we're like, why?
• 46:20
  [SPEAKER_05]: He's like, because the patch in the cards, not authentic, you know, like, wait, what?
• 46:25
  [SPEAKER_05]: and he then proceeds to have this guy who's reaching out to us on Instagram, who's like a curator of stepberry stuff.
• 46:33
  [SPEAKER_05]: Who sends us the photograph, apparently, at the same card when it was originally pulled in China or something, with a different patch in it.
• 46:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: And he goes, oh, that's a fake patch.
• 46:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: And I go, wait a second, time out.
• 46:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: I said, it's in a BGS lab.
• 46:46
  [SPEAKER_05]: It has a public cop in a BGS lab.
• 46:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: It has a public cop.
• 46:50
  [SPEAKER_05]: sealed in a flawless case with the same thing, and you just say that you have a photograph of somebody who pulled this back in 2018, and now you're expecting me to eat the card.
• 47:03
  [SPEAKER_05]: And the guy was basically like, if you don't tell me who you bought it from,
• 47:08
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm going to export you on social media for being a fraud and he turned, he tagged Bubba and he was trying to come strong with it, right?
• 47:17
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
• 47:17
  [SPEAKER_05]: And Bubba, Bubba had to have a conversation inside, but I'm like, are you me hanging me on social media anymore, you know?
• 47:24
  [SPEAKER_05]: and he said, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning,
• 47:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right, so it's all the time.
• 47:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of patch swaps.
• 47:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: So you used to be trackers for guys like there was a KD tracker for his RPA to 99 because like 70 or 80 of them and patch swaps.
• 48:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like almost every KD to 99 has been patch swaps.
• 48:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so you have a seal.
• 48:05
  [SPEAKER_05]: from flawless, with the flawless seal on top, with the same package, no, no, but what I'm saying is is like, that opens up to current point, like, what's the actual collectability of this if there's absolutely no authentication for these patches?
• 48:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I totally think that's why in some ways to me the logo man is is really special and the shield one of ones are special and buying one of ones like the one of one swish and dynasty like if you stick with a one of one it's not going to be patched up.
• 48:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: most likely because it's a one of one and it's going to have the most significant patch in it and it's going to say on the card what it should be.
• 48:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, if you're buying a Brady shield one of one, it's like they're it's not going to be patch swapped.
• 48:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think where the the difficulty comes in and all these flawless and dynasties is there's the tens or so the fives or the twenties or it's the twenty fives or it's a ruby.
• 48:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's the animal with this and that.
• 48:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, you get a, you get a curry to 20 and it's got this amazing patch in it and it's like, wait a second, why does that's the 20 have this amazing patch that doesn't make sense, it's like the logo from the jersey and it's like beautifully centered in there and it's a random to 15 or 25 and it's like, well, gosh, I, I don't feel comfortable with that and I, that's why people like the logo man.
• 49:17
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I look, I hear you, but there's also still no way of knowing that that logo man is from a specific game or actually warned in a game.
• 49:24
  [SPEAKER_04]: It could be used in practice, you know, in a practice uniform or a uniform that they took to take photos in.
• 49:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it will say from a photo shoot or rookie photo shoot or not associated with any gamer events on the back if it's from just a photo shoot.
• 49:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: If it says game used on the back, it should be used in a game, but, you know, that's on us to decide whether we trust that or not.
• 49:44
  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, to the point is it's like you're you're assuming some kind of risk and there's things that you're willing to see to the hobby when you're buying and I'll tell you this is one of the reasons why big Matt is more of a purist in the sense of I
• 49:59
  [SPEAKER_05]: I like straight cards.
• 50:01
  [SPEAKER_05]: Just like don't give me a piece of jersey, don't give me anything on like it looks cool.
• 50:05
  [SPEAKER_05]: I get that, but I just like the card because it goes back to, you can't tamper with the card per set.
• 50:12
  [SPEAKER_05]: You know what I mean?
• 50:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like if it's a pack pulled card, it's a pack pulled card.
• 50:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'll then just stick with an 81 top scowler, if it's in junior and just, no, it's full of money.
• 50:19
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's full of money.
• 50:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because if you think about it, you're taking on risk with grading in all ways that they're creating associated with any card you buy.
• 50:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're taking on a risk.
• 50:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're just assuming they know that they're talking about and that grader was able to grade it properly.
• 50:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you buy PSA10 or something and you're just, you're taking on massive risk assuming that that was a grader that knew what they're doing on that day and graded that card properly.
• 50:41
  [SPEAKER_04]: To me, the best cards are the ones where the grade doesn't matter.
• 50:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, appreciate the points all the time and they ask me what card I think is better.
• 50:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, what are they?
• 50:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: What's their value?
• 50:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Raw.
• 50:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: I I I card that the significance of rareties in the card not the plastic.
• 50:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I've had clients, I you know, they'll show me a bunch of gold, you know, not gold, the like a regular kaboom and a PSA 10.
• 51:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's worth 30 or 40, 50k because the PSA 10 and the PSA 9's worth 12k and it's like, man, like, there's so much value baked into the grade, not just hard, and they're all meant, you know, there's like three B ends and there's black labels and there's seven PSA 10's one like the premium is based on subjectivity, all right, and it's like how meant does a mint card need to be like, and we're just assuming that actually is more meant whatever that means.
• 51:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, try explaining that to somebody.
• 51:31
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, exactly.
• 51:32
  [SPEAKER_05]: And that's the whole things that's like kind of become exhausting for me to talk about like the burnout or whatever, because I see through that.
• 51:38
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like, you know what I mean?
• 51:39
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm smart enough to see through that.
• 51:41
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm like, why does that have value?
• 51:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: That is subjectivity.
• 51:44
  [SPEAKER_05]: You know what I mean?
• 51:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: I had this conversation.
• 51:46
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think we mentioned on a podcast a couple of weeks ago, so what actually makes these cards collectible?
• 51:51
  [SPEAKER_05]: You know what I mean?
• 51:52
  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, in 90% of the time, it is hype and subjectivity is what makes the value inherent in a card unless it's a card like what you're talking about, Brent, and you have a true asset that has scarcity, rarity, and value, and collectability based on what it actually is and not necessarily the markets response to it in that moment.
• 52:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 52:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, you'll see this in first one, and you'll see like a PSA eight red to five, self or not that much more than, you know, a gold PSA 10.
• 52:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's just like this is crazy to me.
• 52:24
  [SPEAKER_04]: Not take the red all day.
• 52:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Just spend the red and half and I'll still take it.
• 52:28
  [SPEAKER_04]: Exactly.
• 52:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, like I just to me that just doesn't make any sense to me or someone I remember I did a story a while of doc because somebody paid some massive number for a black label trial X for actor first woman auto and you could about a gold blue and have a 25 can't cash will have to over for what they picked black label X for actor to speak as it's a black label.
• 52:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: just because of the black label.
• 52:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: And now fast forward a couple years later, that black label is worth less than just the gold by itself.
• 52:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because eventually, I believe eventually, the carb will always win out over the grid.
• 53:00
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
• 53:01
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
• 53:01
  [SPEAKER_04]: I agree.
• 53:02
  [SPEAKER_05]: I have a, I'm going to do, I'm going to just do it, Brent, because we don't like get to hang out on the town, but I'm going to show this to you because I want you to want your feedback on it.
• 53:08
  [SPEAKER_05]: So we just picked this up.
• 53:10
  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yeah.
• 53:10
  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
• 53:11
  [SPEAKER_05]: So it's the target
• 53:14
  [SPEAKER_05]: So total graded copies with PSA, 88, right?
• 53:19
  [SPEAKER_05]: We got this in seven of that card.
• 53:21
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think for probably three grand or something like that.
• 53:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: 35 little mess said.
• 53:25
  [SPEAKER_05]: So we have his base on it, which there are thousands up in his PSA 10.
• 53:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: No, not his first moment.
• 53:32
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm talking about his top, the top something.
• 53:35
  [SPEAKER_05]: He has a 10 of that card that there are literally thousands of, it's 1,400.
• 53:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
• 53:41
  [SPEAKER_05]: And so you have this red, there's only 88 graded.
• 53:44
  [SPEAKER_05]: It was an insert in like target tax.
• 53:46
  [SPEAKER_04]: And they rarely come up for sale too.
• 53:49
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
• 53:49
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
• 53:50
  [SPEAKER_05]: So it's like why is that card doing just double of like a base tops?
• 53:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's centered that the first thing I thought of when I saw that card was, oh, I love a low grade centered rare card.
• 54:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so cool to me because you're getting a ticket to the neighborhood.
• 54:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a lower entry price But you're in the better neighborhood versus the top subdate where it's just they're all over the place and so I love doing stuff like that.
• 54:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like that's stuff like that to me like I feel like I've won something
• 54:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: that's safe to me like what's finding value.
• 54:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 54:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 54:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: When I think of safety, I would find safety in that card.
• 54:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: I would not find safety in a PSA 10 of the base update.
• 54:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
• 54:27
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
• 54:27
  [SPEAKER_05]: So one of the things I want to kind of and we're kind of getting close to our time here.
• 54:30
  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't want to interrupt any things you guys want to chat about.
• 54:32
  [SPEAKER_05]: But one of the things that I struggle with is actually believing in long-term value at some of these cards.
• 54:38
  [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
• 54:39
  [SPEAKER_05]: Now, I'll tell you, I look at this trout and I'm like, okay, $3,500 for a mic trout rookie that there's less than a hundred graded.
• 54:46
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like, I feel confident in that number because it makes sense in my mind versus like a star Jordan or like even a flea Jordan when there are multiple multiple copies.
• 54:56
  [SPEAKER_05]: There's nothing that distinguishes them other than the subjectivity of the grade.
• 55:00
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yet you have a price point that has doubled or tripled over the last
• 55:06
  [SPEAKER_05]: you know, couple of years.
• 55:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: And I'm sitting here going like, how is that longevity?
• 55:11
  [SPEAKER_05]: How is that sustainable?
• 55:12
  [SPEAKER_05]: It just doesn't feel like it could be sustainable to me.
• 55:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know.
• 55:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: I always listen to you guys a show.
• 55:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so I can feel your frustration and fears around it.
• 55:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: And
• 55:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: and trying to grasp it, I mean, to me, I have to be very, very specific when I think about it.
• 55:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: If I get too broad and vague about the sports card market and just generalizations and thinking about, like, how could these all, and I can't do that, but, you know, they 84 the star Jordan, for example, you know, that's been a, that might be the first time that a card that was considered not as nice as another card took over the other one, right?
• 55:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like the other classic one is the 51 mantle versus the 52 mantle,
• 55:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: That was the first the star Jordan is, you know, there's a certain group of collectors that I feel are really making sure that that card sells for a lot all the time and they it's become like a cult following and I used to get I used to try to understand crypto right I used to try to understand Bitcoin then I remember one day having the Piffani is like all that map has value.
• 56:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's all that I don't need to understand.
• 56:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're going to stop sending me your 40 page PDFs about Bitcoin and why it's this.
• 56:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: And this like once I realize all that matters, that enough people believe as value, that's all the matters.
• 56:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: So sports cars are no different.
• 56:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: All that matters is as long as enough people believe they have value.
• 56:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: They have value.
• 56:29
  [SPEAKER_04]: What's on as soon as those people stop believing the market goes down.
• 56:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: because what's a hundred dollar bills a piece of paper and enough people believe it has the value that it says on it.
• 56:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not bad about anything.
• 56:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: So cards are the same thing.
• 56:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Just enough people believe they have value right now.
• 56:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you're seeing more and more that the people that I'm talking to coming into this space are pretty sophisticated in their investment strategies and they're moving money into sports cards as an investment.
• 56:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're on a lookout as an investment, but they also want to have fun in it.
• 56:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it's pretty interesting to think about.
• 56:59
  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I think it's super interesting to me is when you see like the stock market and people investing in the stock market.
• 57:04
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'll just tell you like it's boring is all good up to me.
• 57:06
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like I think stock investing is the most boring thing in the world.
• 57:10
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's like I looked at my account today and it's just doing like this.
• 57:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: I might do don't want to hold something cool.
• 57:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: I want to see something tangible.
• 57:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: You don't even mean like the job that's making it boring by telling everybody to just buy index phones.
• 57:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then they want to charge you to invest your money in an index funds.
• 57:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it's it's not a really good job at making it boring.
• 57:27
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and I'm sitting here going like, there's nothing like fun about this.
• 57:30
  [SPEAKER_05]: You know what I mean?
• 57:30
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm sitting here going like, give me something I can touch.
• 57:32
  [SPEAKER_05]: And I'm thinking about legacy.
• 57:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm thinking about like land and, you know, houses and stuff like this, like real estate tangible that you can pass it down.
• 57:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like even with the boat thing, it's like something I can utilize, you know?
• 57:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: any cards I love cards because it's like I can look on the back of this ripkin and I can like oh dude did you know in 91 you know what I mean he hit whatever 38 bombs whatever it is like that's what I love about cards that I think a lot of people actually love about cards I think a lot of people this if it and then there are the people like why just put it to my vault I'm like come on man I know I always talk about that too like I don't like doing that like I the part for me is holding the cards like I know
• 58:10
  [SPEAKER_04]: it's holding the cards physically holding them.
• 58:13
  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't like to store anything at all.
• 58:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like sometimes if you're getting into a new set or a different land and you're like, I just need to like see it hand and see if I really like this card or not or, you know, like I'm super picky about auto.
• 58:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: So a lot of times I'm like, I need to see seven different images of the auto.
• 58:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: I need to see Zoom then because I'm afraid about autos.
• 58:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like right now, massive mistakes being made on cards.
• 58:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: One of them is just people buying darkened faded autos.
• 58:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: And they're paying premiums for some of these cards.
• 58:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, well, there wasn't what makes this card so wonderful is the auto.
• 58:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's darkened and faded.
• 58:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so I'll point that out to them.
• 58:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes they're not too happy to hear about it.
• 58:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I just try to be honest with them.
• 58:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like I'd regardless of what you just paid for the card or regardless of how happy
• 58:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's a darkened auto and I'm like, what does that mean darkened?
• 59:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, a lot of adults will start they go from that nice bright blue They start darkening and then they fade and so when I see darkened I avoid it.
• 59:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: I just don't want it So there's a lot of you know the older first moments you'll see it you'll start some darkening some fading a lot of the judges You're even starting to see some fading and darkening.
• 59:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm that bright blue and so to me I'll always pay premium for that bright blue
• 59:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: I can see it in my hand and I love it.
• 59:27
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, makes sense.
• 59:31
  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, you look like you're in deep thought.
• 59:33
  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I was debating on whether I wanted to open up that can and decide it.
• 59:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, we're already at our hour mark here and, you know, you get me fired up about this kind of stuff.
• 59:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: I can talk for, you know, a long time about it.
• 59:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: Especially when you get into the subjectivity of the card market because I can really get saucy then.
• 59:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's better when people are blowing me up on social media than I can get extra saucy.
• 59:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I don't get tagged with each other after this.
• 59:55
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's none of that.
• 59:56
  [SPEAKER_05]: You're good, man.
• 59:56
  [SPEAKER_05]: You're good.
• 59:57
  [SPEAKER_05]: Then we truly, man, we appreciate your support of the show.
• 1:00:00
  [SPEAKER_05]: You're always tagging us and reaching out and dropping ideas.
• 1:00:04
  [SPEAKER_05]: And so glad they have you back on it.
• 1:00:06
  [SPEAKER_05]: I know we're going to do it again as well.
• 1:00:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: Because you just add so much value to understanding the market and asset perspective.
• 1:00:14
  [SPEAKER_05]: And I appreciate the heck out of it, man.
• 1:00:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: Because it's, you know,
• 1:00:17
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like, I used the word sophisticated a couple times like I like having sophisticated conversations like the hype goes away the the nonsense goes away all of the you know marketing stuff goes away and it's actually like what's the guts underneath this that we can grab hold of and that's what I love talking about.
• 1:00:34
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
• 1:00:34
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
• 1:00:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: You guys speak to us if it's hated audience is obvious.
• 1:00:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I, I'd like to come here and have these conversations with you guys.
• 1:00:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: I listened to your podcast every time you call, you know, you're bringing a different perspective to the space.
• 1:00:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you're, you're, you're not, you're not just like at shows every day and filming yourself making a deal every single day and I bought this $90 card for $87 and I sold it for $90 and like,
• 1:01:00
  [SPEAKER_04]: dollars or not like I just I don't need to see another video of a transaction at a car show like I just don't know it so I want to have us if it's good we're so proud the best part about those videos a lot of this is it's so predictable one guy throws out a number the other guys throws out another one meet in the middle yeah yeah little video
• 1:01:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I like, yeah, much, I'm not even buying the card.
• 1:01:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, what's the strategy?
• 1:01:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm the card is just, they're just looking at cases and it's like, what can I get for 90%.
• 1:01:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:01:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: I never do that.
• 1:01:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I have supported my family for years in this space and I have never bought a card because of what percentage I can get at that comp.
• 1:01:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've never cared about that.
• 1:01:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: I like that, we're been a thing.
• 1:01:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, for some people that works, but I believe that you guys are just like, it's up at some higher level conversation and I always enjoy it.
• 1:01:46
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I appreciate that.
• 1:01:47
  [SPEAKER_04]: We appreciate that.
• 1:01:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, like what's and you know, it's interesting to it's like I do think everybody has this play everywhere everything has its place in the hobby like the hype guys the hype video guys like it has its space it gets people excited it gets people hooked in or whatever it's Mr.
• 1:02:02
  [SPEAKER_05]: Beast he knows how to sell Not he doesn't know he knows how to make videos now, but he also knows how to get people to subscribe to his page and get people to like you know
• 1:02:11
  [SPEAKER_05]: Wait for the, wait for the cliffhanger.
• 1:02:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: You know what I mean?
• 1:02:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like, these guys are really good at that kind of stuff.
• 1:02:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: Which it gets people into the hobby.
• 1:02:16
  [SPEAKER_05]: But then it's like, we have this thing of like, yes, now welcome to the SportsCard CEO.
• 1:02:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: Join us with our wine and cheese as we talk about the depth of the SportsCard hobby.
• 1:02:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's like, you know, and we like this because it's a deeper reflective thing.
• 1:02:33
  [SPEAKER_05]: And so I think it all has its place.
• 1:02:35
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm, I'm more in hanging out with you.
• 1:02:37
  [SPEAKER_05]: You've got not turned though, because I'm still mad at him right now.
• 1:02:39
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's mad.
• 1:02:39
  [SPEAKER_04]: I won't tell my 26 bobbin secret.
• 1:02:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm not I'm Matt, but I'm hanging out with you, Brett.
• 1:02:44
  [SPEAKER_05]: And we're going to we're going to do it to it in in Chicago, man.
• 1:02:46
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm looking forward to it.
• 1:02:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's good man.
• 1:02:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I appreciate you guys having me on.
• 1:02:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: This has been a lot of fun.
• 1:02:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: And like you said, it's a sophisticated conversation.
• 1:02:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: You guys have careers outside of sports cards.
• 1:02:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's also another theme with my clients.
• 1:02:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: These are.
• 1:02:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know busy people with careers that make a great living for their families and cards you fund for them and they want it to be an investment but it's not what they do all day every day for living and so I'm clear what you guys put out here is really awesome and keep it up.
• 1:03:11
  [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you.
• 1:03:11
  [SPEAKER_05]: Let's get you back on soon.
• 1:03:12
  [SPEAKER_04]: Great.
• 1:03:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: Any final thoughts today?
• 1:03:15
  [SPEAKER_04]: No, I'm a great conversation.
• 1:03:16
  [SPEAKER_04]: I enjoyed it.
• 1:03:17
  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, we sit here and talk a lot of baseball and a lot of just bone and constantly.
• 1:03:22
  [SPEAKER_04]: And there's only so much of that you can talk about.
• 1:03:24
  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I could talk about it all day long because that's what brings me choice is watching prospects on a nightly basis.
• 1:03:30
  [SPEAKER_04]: Sadly, that's what I enjoyed doing.
• 1:03:32
  [SPEAKER_04]: But it's nice to breath a fresh air to have a different conversation just about to take a step back and discuss the sports card of industry in general.
• 1:03:41
  [SPEAKER_04]: Looking where you look for value
• 1:03:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well congrats on your apps and man, that's a really cool idea.
• 1:03:47
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, thank you.
• 1:03:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
• 1:03:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: People trying to, there's so much information out there and so much to track all the time and to be able to consolidate, battle into one place and to provide such value like that.
• 1:03:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's cool.
• 1:03:57
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it was really just to be able to get notifications on my lock screen for the prospects that I wanted to know what they're doing that night.
• 1:04:03
  [SPEAKER_04]: Like everything else is there, sure.
• 1:04:05
  [SPEAKER_04]: But like it was literally just for that reason.
• 1:04:07
  [SPEAKER_04]: I never, I had a scoured through box scores to find out what
• 1:04:11
  [SPEAKER_04]: fricking hose way the Paula was doing on a Tuesday night, you know, and let it come to my lock screen.
• 1:04:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, baseball reference, and then refreshing and, yeah, like, yeah, disaster.
• 1:04:20
  [SPEAKER_05]: Brent, who is hose way to Paula?
• 1:04:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: That's what I'm curious about.
• 1:04:25
  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't need them so I have to figure that out.
• 1:04:27
  [SPEAKER_05]: Number one, Dodgers Prospect.
• 1:04:29
  [SPEAKER_05]: Love it, I love it.
• 1:04:30
  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, Fred, thank you, got so much for tuning in to another episode of SportsCars CEO, Brett.
• 1:04:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: We appreciate you, brother.
• 1:04:35
  [SPEAKER_05]: And, love what you're doing in the hobby with Wire Sports, the EYRsports.com.
• 1:04:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, WireSports.com and then Deep Allien Vector on Instagram.
• 1:04:44
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yep, absolutely, bro.
• 1:04:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: We appreciate you, friends.
• 1:04:46
  [SPEAKER_05]: Thanks for tuning in.
• 1:04:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: Thanks, CEO.
• 1:04:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: We'll see you next week.