Latest / The Daily Writer / The Entrepreneurial Pastor (with John Stange)

Transcript

The Entrepreneurial Pastor (with John Stange) · The Daily Writer

0:01
SPEAKER_00: How do you maintain a full-time job, lead your family, yet also find time to write a couple dozen books, produce three podcasts, and lead a growing online community?
0:13
SPEAKER_00: You're about to find out in this episode.
0:16
SPEAKER_00: Well, hello, my friend.
0:17
SPEAKER_00: This is Kent Sanders from Inkwell Ghostwriting.
0:20
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to this episode of the Smart Business Writing Podcast.
0:23
SPEAKER_00: This is the show that helps you grow your business, amplify your authority, and increase your impact through the power of writing.
0:30
SPEAKER_00: As always, thanks so much for joining me on this episode.
0:33
SPEAKER_00: Well, I am thrilled to bring you this interview with my friend John Stangy, who is an author, pastor, podcaster, husband, and dad.
0:43
SPEAKER_00: He's going to share his journey of being a pastor while also building a successful side business as an author and entrepreneur.
0:51
SPEAKER_00: John is the lead pastor of Core Creek Community Church in Langhorn, Pennsylvania, and he hosts three podcasts: the Chapter a Day Audio Bible, Daily Devotions with Pastor John, and sermons, Bible studies, and training.
1:06
SPEAKER_00: John has written over 20 books, all of which are focused on spiritual growth, leadership, marriage, and practical aspects of following Jesus.
1:16
SPEAKER_00: John also recently started the Healthy Discipleship Community, which has been a great success.
1:21
SPEAKER_00: His next book, Dwell on These Things, will be published by Penguin Random House next spring.
1:28
SPEAKER_00: I met John a few months ago when he joined the Total Life Freedom Community, which is led by Vincent Puglisi, and I was immediately intrigued by the fact that John is a pastor, but he's also an author and an entrepreneur.
1:42
SPEAKER_00: In our conversation, John shares how he manages his time, how he repurposes his content, how the book deal with Penguin Random House happened, and lots and lots more.
1:53
SPEAKER_00: We also discussed the issue of intellectual property and how John handles that in his ministry.
1:58
SPEAKER_00: Now, whether or not you're a pastor, you're going to gain a lot of great insights about writing and content creation and time management from this interview.
2:07
SPEAKER_00: So without further ado, let's dive into the conversation with John Stongy.
2:12
SPEAKER_00: John, thank you so much for being on the show today.
2:14
SPEAKER_00: I appreciate you making time to do this.
2:16
SPEAKER_03: Happy to be here.
2:18
SPEAKER_00: So I've got a lot of questions related to your content because you're doing so much.
2:24
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I I was struggling to even know where to start with this because I'm I'm honestly kind of in awe of the fact that you're a pastor, yet you're also producing all this great stuff related to books and writing and content and podcasts.
2:37
SPEAKER_00: So you are a very, very productive guy.
2:40
SPEAKER_00: So thanks.
2:41
SPEAKER_00: That's pretty awesome.
2:43
SPEAKER_00: Let's start with uh let's go back to the beginning.
2:47
SPEAKER_00: Well, maybe not the beginning.
2:48
SPEAKER_00: That would be a long podcast, but let's go back to the beginning of when you started creating content outside of just material for your church.
2:56
SPEAKER_00: When did you start thinking about doing podcasts, books, and other kinds of content?
3:04
SPEAKER_03: The first outside piece of content I produced was back in 2002.
3:10
SPEAKER_03: I decided to try my hand at writing a book.
3:14
SPEAKER_03: And uh I was working at a radio station at the time, and so I was learning details about recording and and things like that.
3:21
SPEAKER_03: I was also pastoring a church at the same time.
3:23
SPEAKER_03: But in in the meantime, I had started my uh I just started writing a book.
3:28
SPEAKER_03: I I had an idea and I I began the process, and it took me a lot longer than I thought it would, even though it's not a very long book.
3:36
SPEAKER_03: Uh, but that was the first time I had done that.
3:38
SPEAKER_03: And then for a long time after that, I didn't really produce a lot of content.
3:44
SPEAKER_03: But then right around 2014, I thought I needed to get a bit more serious in uh producing books and writing books.
3:54
SPEAKER_03: I I really enjoyed it and I decided to carve out time for doing that.
3:58
SPEAKER_03: And so uh I I went really, I became very intentional that year.
4:03
SPEAKER_03: And I I basically spent that entire year writing, and I would carve out time uh pretty much every evening.
4:12
SPEAKER_03: I I tend to stay up a little bit later than the rest of my family does, and so I would use that time when the house was quiet and I would write.
4:20
SPEAKER_03: And then the next year in 2015, I really started getting into listening to podcasts, and the more I started listening to them, the more I thought, well, maybe this would also be a good opportunity for me to contribute something.
4:32
SPEAKER_03: And so I I tried to create a podcast that I wasn't finding, something that I knew I would use, and I thought, well, if I can't find it, let me create it.
4:43
SPEAKER_03: And so that's that's about when I really, you know, 2014, 2015, that's when I really started taking content creation much more seriously as far as book writing and podcast creation.
4:56
SPEAKER_00: How many books have you written up to this point?
4:59
SPEAKER_03: Uh, it's in the uh mid-20s, some low to mid-20s.
5:04
SPEAKER_00: And how do you decide what books to write on?
5:06
SPEAKER_00: Because you have a variety of topics out there.
5:08
SPEAKER_00: So I'm curious, you know, how do you being a pastor who's creating sermons and lessons and all kinds of content, you probably have ideas every single day about books you can write and things that you can can create.
5:20
SPEAKER_00: So how do you decide what to actually focus on for your next book or your next project?
5:25
SPEAKER_03: Um, it it kind of happens a few different ways.
5:28
SPEAKER_03: Sometimes I'll create a book based on something I've been speaking about.
5:32
SPEAKER_03: And because I've done all that research and all that speaking, it's it lends itself perfectly to taking that content and turning it immediately into a book.
5:41
SPEAKER_03: So it could be a matter of utilizing content I've already prepared.
5:45
SPEAKER_03: Sometimes it comes out of things that have request uh people have requested me to speak on.
5:50
SPEAKER_03: Um, and uh I have one book in particular that was inspired by someone that uh used to work on my staff.
5:59
SPEAKER_03: And uh she reached out to me and she said, Hey, have you ever written a book on leadership?
6:05
SPEAKER_03: Uh, because I I always enjoyed working under your leadership, and I'd I'd love to hear some of your thoughts related to that.
6:12
SPEAKER_03: And uh so I actually developed a podcast related to it that I turned the content into a book, uh, but that was sparked by somebody that I had worked with that had made a specific request.
6:26
SPEAKER_03: So the ideas come from a lot of times they come from specific needs that people have either brought up to me or needs that I'm noticing.
6:34
SPEAKER_03: And uh I try and if I'm writing on something, I try and utilize it in multiple different formats.
6:42
SPEAKER_00: So let me make sure I understand this correctly.
6:44
SPEAKER_00: And for those who are listening, you're not just creating your books or your your content in a vacuum.
6:50
SPEAKER_00: This is actually coming from real life needs that you have or that other people have.
6:55
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
6:56
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
6:56
SPEAKER_03: It's uh I I'm trying to be kind of multidimensional in creating this content.
7:02
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
7:03
SPEAKER_00: That totally makes sense because I wonder if sometimes we make writing books or creating content too hard in the sense of we feel like we've got to come up with all this stuff.
7:12
SPEAKER_00: When really there's a sense in which all you there's a sense in which all you have to do is just pay attention to the world around you and pay attention to what people are saying and the needs that you have or that other people have.
7:24
SPEAKER_00: So maybe we're making this too hard sometimes.
7:27
SPEAKER_03: I think so.
7:27
SPEAKER_03: And I I I think sometimes you some of the best things that we could write are kind of in the flow of what we're already doing and what we're already reading and preparing instead of uh always just kind of separating ourselves and having that being its own world.
7:44
SPEAKER_03: Uh, I think sometimes um when you're when you're producing something, it's nice when it's already within the flow of what you've been doing outside of producing that content.
7:54
SPEAKER_00: Now I'd love to, I'm glad you mentioned that because I'd love to dive into this a little bit.
7:58
SPEAKER_00: Can you share how you're repurposing your content between the stuff that you create for church, your books, and your podcasts?
8:06
SPEAKER_00: And let me, uh I know there's a lot of um, I was gonna use the word tendrils.
8:11
SPEAKER_00: I don't know why that word came to mind.
8:13
SPEAKER_00: That's not even that's not like even a pleasant word, but there's a lot of directions that this can go.
8:17
SPEAKER_00: So let me start with the material that you create for your ministry, sermons and lessons.
8:23
SPEAKER_00: What happens to that material as far as repurposing it?
8:28
SPEAKER_03: Well, when uh I've I've been creating sermons for so I've been preaching for 22 years now, consistently, uh, full-time and pastoral ministry all that time.
8:38
SPEAKER_03: And uh I've prepared, done a lot of sermon preparation during that time, but I've done it differently through these years.
8:44
SPEAKER_03: But since right around 2012, I decided to start preparing my sermons in more of a manuscript form.
8:53
SPEAKER_03: Even though I don't really preach a manuscript, uh I try and do my preparation in manuscript form with the idea that it could then be utilized, that my sermon notes could be utilized as a blog post and maybe even a chapter or a partial chapter in a book because I tend to preach on a series.
9:13
SPEAKER_03: So I have one book in particular to be a good example of this.
9:17
SPEAKER_03: It's a book called Who is God?
9:19
SPEAKER_03: And I was talking about God's nature, I was talking about God's attributes, I was talking about the ways in which uh He just encourages us and operates in our day-to-day lives.
9:29
SPEAKER_03: And so that started as a preaching series, and then immediately, week by week, as I would preach on the specifical the specific topics of uh who God reveals himself to be in Scripture, I would turn that content immediately into a blog post.
9:46
SPEAKER_03: And then from there, I would format it into a chapter.
9:50
SPEAKER_03: And when it was all said and done, I now had a series of recordings of it being spoken that were turned into podcasts, a series of blog posts based on the notes, and then a series of chapters after I reformatted it into book chapters.
10:09
SPEAKER_03: So it became podcasts, blog, and book almost simultaneously.
10:14
SPEAKER_03: And um and I I felt like that was a good use of the content in getting that out there and not letting it go to waste.
10:22
SPEAKER_03: I always think it's a shame.
10:24
SPEAKER_03: I remember years ago speaking to a pastor, and I I asked him, I said, What do you do with your sermon content after you preach it?
10:32
SPEAKER_03: And he said, I throw it away.
10:34
SPEAKER_03: And I said, You throw it, you throw it away.
10:36
SPEAKER_03: I I thought after I after spending all that time on it, he said, No, I want everything I do to be fresh week to week.
10:43
SPEAKER_03: So I understand that impulse.
10:45
SPEAKER_03: However, I think if you spend all that time in preparation and putting putting something together of of quality and substance, how could you part with it?
10:54
SPEAKER_03: How could you throw it away?
10:56
SPEAKER_03: It it actually made me wonder if maybe he didn't spend all that much time in preparation, if he was just kind of winging it, because I thought I I couldn't, after spending all that time, just throw away the content that I had spent that much time putting together.
11:13
SPEAKER_00: That just blows me away.
11:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
11:15
SPEAKER_00: Somebody would throw that away.
11:17
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
11:17
SPEAKER_03: I don't throw away anything as far as that content.
11:21
SPEAKER_00: Now, for you, as far as content creation, do you enjoy now, of course, being a pastor, you're going to be preaching every week.
11:28
SPEAKER_00: So that this is kind of a non-issue in a way, but all things being equal, would you prefer to speak content first and then turn it into written form?
11:36
SPEAKER_00: Or do you really prefer writing something first and then speaking it?
11:41
SPEAKER_00: Which way does your brain work the best?
11:43
SPEAKER_03: I like to write it first, then speak it, uh, because it helps me clarify what I'm going to speak about.
11:51
SPEAKER_03: So I like I like actually uh picturing myself in front of a group speaking, uh, but that's how I tend to write with that in mind.
12:02
SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm envisioning myself either in front of a small group or in maybe even just in front of an individual, but I'm picturing myself speaking content as I'm writing it.
12:14
SPEAKER_03: And uh, but writing it first helps me take out what I would consider wasted words.
12:21
SPEAKER_03: It helps me streamline what I'm trying to do and what I'm trying to say.
12:26
SPEAKER_03: And it also makes it so that by the time I'm actually speaking it in front of a group, it's it's more thoughtfully organized.
12:33
SPEAKER_03: It's better organized, I think, when I'm speaking, if I've taken the time to write it out first.
12:42
SPEAKER_00: I totally blanked out on what I was gonna ask next.
12:45
SPEAKER_00: Literally, I had this thought and it just poof it went out there somewhere.
12:49
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I'm gonna write down this time.
12:51
SPEAKER_00: It is 10 13.
12:53
SPEAKER_00: Uh I just totally blanked out.
12:56
SPEAKER_00: I never do this.
12:57
SPEAKER_00: I don't know why.
12:59
SPEAKER_00: It's because as you're talking, I'm I'm thinking of like seven other questions that I want to ask because I'm so fascinated by this process.
13:06
SPEAKER_00: Uh let me get my mind back on track here.
13:08
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
13:09
SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't know, I don't know where that thought went.
13:13
SPEAKER_00: It was a really good question, too.
13:14
SPEAKER_00: It just has completely disappeared into the ether.
13:17
SPEAKER_00: Oh well, I'll move on to the next one.
13:19
SPEAKER_00: Maybe it'll come back at some point.
13:22
SPEAKER_00: So let me ask a follow-up question to all of that.
13:25
SPEAKER_00: What is your publishing process once you once you have the book written?
13:30
SPEAKER_00: How do you take that from I I guess I would say a rough manuscript or a draft or maybe a first or second draft?
13:37
SPEAKER_00: How do you take that to a finished ebook on Amazon or a print book?
13:42
SPEAKER_03: Um, so I'll I'll format it, you know, like I'll go through it and I'll format it because I want to be seeing it in my notes as a book.
13:53
SPEAKER_03: And I I actually read it out loud, uh, you know, to myself, but I I want to make sure that it reads properly.
14:00
SPEAKER_03: So I'll read it out loud.
14:01
SPEAKER_03: That's how I notice a lot of errors or a lot of mistakes, um, and I'm able to correct those things because sometimes the way things come out in your head uh and the way they they show up on paper doesn't always line up.
14:13
SPEAKER_03: True.
14:14
SPEAKER_03: Uh but then at that point, um I'll upload it as uh as something that's available via Kindle, and then I'll upload it uh as something that's uh available via paper, via uh paperback.
14:27
SPEAKER_03: And um and um and and I guess I should say, even before I do that, I take the time to you know think through what the cover's gonna look like and and uh what the the brief description of the book is going to be, and and uh then I put it in the system there.
14:45
SPEAKER_03: And Amazon's made that much easier than it once was.
14:48
SPEAKER_03: It used to be a very very cumbersome to create uh books that were formatted properly for Kindle or or formatted properly for their paperback options, and they've kind of blended that all and learned a lot from it.
15:00
SPEAKER_03: And so they they make that uh a lot easier to do that.
15:04
SPEAKER_03: But yeah, that's kind of the process that I bring it through as far as formatting.
15:08
SPEAKER_00: So whenever you're writing, are you uh this is the question I was gonna ask earlier, and I I totally forgot about it.
15:15
SPEAKER_00: Are you trying to write in a way that you speak?
15:18
SPEAKER_00: So I guess in other words, are you trying to make your written voice match your speaking voice?
15:23
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, definitely.
15:24
SPEAKER_03: I I definitely am.
15:26
SPEAKER_03: I I uh for whatever reason that that just seems to work for me, I think it is more personal if I do it that way.
15:35
SPEAKER_03: I'm not so I'm not somebody that likes to sit down and feel like I'm reading an encyclopedia.
15:42
SPEAKER_03: I want to hear the author's personality as best as they're willing to show it.
15:47
SPEAKER_03: And so over time, I've just become much more comfortable with letting people experience my personality through both my speaking and my writing because I've discovered when I'm reading people's material or when I'm listening to them speak, if their personality comes out, I'm totally interested in it.
16:07
SPEAKER_03: I I find even if they have a personality that might even be abrasive or off-putting, I still appreciate the fact that their personality came out in it.
16:17
SPEAKER_03: Um, I I had had the chance a while back to hear somebody speak on a very interesting topic.
16:22
SPEAKER_03: And his preparation was excellent.
16:25
SPEAKER_03: His ability to speak was excellent, but I was bored to tears because there was zero personality in the entire presentation.
16:33
SPEAKER_03: And I thought, I feel like this guy just read to me a manual for a camera or how to program a VCR.
16:41
SPEAKER_03: I thought this is this is very dull.
16:44
SPEAKER_03: I was like, where's your personality?
16:45
SPEAKER_03: Let me get to know you a little bit.
16:48
SPEAKER_00: No, I I love the fact that you're letting your personality shine through your writing.
16:51
SPEAKER_00: I think that's really important because many, I don't know what your experience was, you know, early in your ministry, but I know in my early years as a pastor, and even in my years as a teacher, there's a temptation to want to write everything like it's a research paper or write it like it's a dissertation or something.
17:09
SPEAKER_00: So so I think that's a really important point that you mentioned is just letting your personality shine through and not worry about some English teacher from 35 years ago peering over your shoulder as a ghost and whispering in your ear, it's not quite right.
17:22
SPEAKER_00: It's not quite right.
17:23
SPEAKER_03: Right.
17:24
SPEAKER_03: And I think it's important to make sure that you're you're doing this all with who you're serving in mind.
17:32
SPEAKER_03: So meaning, I, you know, I don't want to write or speak to impress anybody.
17:37
SPEAKER_03: You know, my goal is not to have you read my writing and say, wow, what an impressive writer, or to hear me speak and say, wow, what an eloquent speaker.
17:47
SPEAKER_03: My goal is to help with something.
17:50
SPEAKER_03: I, you know, I want somebody to be able to say afterward, that was genuinely helpful, or that was genuinely encouraging, or that was useful, or I genuinely learned something from that.
18:01
SPEAKER_03: I try and write with the value of the reader or speak with the value of uh that's being provided for the hearer in mind.
18:09
SPEAKER_03: I I don't I it's not my interest to be for people to be impressed with me.
18:15
SPEAKER_03: I want them to be helped in some way.
18:18
SPEAKER_03: And I also feel like that makes me much less nervous when I'm trying to communicate because I'm taking my focus off myself.
18:25
SPEAKER_03: When I was a new speaker in particular, I used to get very nervous to the point where I was sick to my stomach right before I would speak.
18:32
SPEAKER_03: And I realized over time that my focus was wrong.
18:35
SPEAKER_03: I was focusing on how will these people see me or perceive me.
18:40
SPEAKER_03: And when I shifted my focus to how can I offer something of value to them, how can I help them, how can I encourage them, and started judging what I was doing based on that instead of how, you know, whether or not I looked good in the process, that helped me not to be as nervous.
18:56
SPEAKER_03: And I think that that helped the content to improve dramatically too.
19:00
SPEAKER_00: I wonder if there's a a tendency among a lot of writers and pastors to be a perfectionist in the sense of fact, I've just talked to several people in the last couple of months that say, hey, I've written one or two books, or I've been working on this book for years, you know, for 15 years or something, but I just can't release myself to put it out there.
19:21
SPEAKER_00: Which is kind of crazy because that perfectionism really, really holds us back.
19:24
SPEAKER_00: So I love this idea.
19:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
19:28
SPEAKER_00: So I think that's a key point that you mentioned.
19:30
SPEAKER_00: And as far as I'm not writing to impress anyone, I'm not speaking to impress anyone, but to help someone.
19:36
SPEAKER_00: And that perfectionism is totally focused on ourselves and how we're so consumed with how people are gonna perceive us that we forget it's not about us at all.
19:44
SPEAKER_00: It's about helping someone.
19:46
SPEAKER_00: And people generally don't care when they read a book if it's totally grammatically correct and it's totally pristine and perfect.
19:53
SPEAKER_00: They just want to know is this gonna entertain me or help me in some way.
19:57
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I agree completely.
19:59
SPEAKER_00: Now let me let me get into an issue for a moment that I think will be of particular interest to to pastors, and that is the issue of intellectual property.
20:09
SPEAKER_00: Um, this is something I think a lot of pastors wonder about.
20:14
SPEAKER_00: Sorry, I had a hair on my tongue.
20:15
SPEAKER_00: That's okay.
20:16
SPEAKER_00: How does how does your church handle that that issue?
20:20
SPEAKER_00: And have you come across pastors where that is an issue?
20:22
SPEAKER_00: As far as you're you're creating material for your ministry or for your job, essentially, but then repurposing that into other things that can make you money.
20:31
SPEAKER_00: Has that been at all an issue that you've had to contend with in your ministry, or have you known other pastors where that is an issue?
20:39
SPEAKER_03: That hasn't been an issue at all uh for me.
20:43
SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, in the context of my local church, I don't think anyone is surprised if I make multiple usage of something that I've I've preached or prepared.
20:54
SPEAKER_03: Um they are just used to me doing that.
20:57
SPEAKER_03: They know that it's gonna show up in in multiple formats.
21:00
SPEAKER_03: But the I think the the nice thing for our our church family is that they get it first.
21:05
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
21:06
SPEAKER_03: So um, you know, it's always to them first, and it's always to them free, too.
21:11
SPEAKER_03: That's the other thing, you know, when it comes to our our church.
21:14
SPEAKER_03: I don't charge our church for anything that I'm I'm producing in that regard.
21:18
SPEAKER_03: I just consider that an outpouring of of my ministry as their pastor.
21:23
SPEAKER_03: Um I have read articles where people have debated whether or, you know, like uh just the nature of the intellectual property related to these things, but I I really haven't gotten into that because so much of what I do I just give away.
21:37
SPEAKER_03: You know, it's not even my there is an income that I make off of what I'm producing now, and I'm grateful for it, especially because I've been involved in church planting.
21:47
SPEAKER_03: And uh, when you're involved in church planting, sometimes you have to be creative in how you earn an income.
21:53
SPEAKER_03: Right.
21:54
SPEAKER_03: And so um, you know, I've I've learned to do that, I've learned to leverage uh some of the content I'm producing.
22:00
SPEAKER_03: actually uh be uh you know part of my my household income but um but as far as what i do i mean i just give so much away for free you know the podcasts uh you know all that content it's free uh the blog is is you know the precursor to books and so it's all out there free and um and you know so i mean i would say 90% of what i've created through the years is just freely accessible there's there's very little that is exclusively paid now if you want something formatted really really nicely and all organized for you and and uh in book form you know yeah they'll there'll be a uh a price for that on amazon but i also you know if you look at the at how I price my books uh I price them really really cheap because again my focus is not so much the income side of it my focus is will this help people how can I get this into the most hands of uh of the most people and uh does this help them in their walk with the Lord and that's since that's my driving motivation um I you know I I'm I really haven't run into issues with intellectual property concerns because people see me just giving this away to who to who whoever wants it you know and and uh and I'm happy to do it.
23:19
SPEAKER_00: Well I I asked that question and I love your response to all that by the way for for multiple reasons but I asked that question partly because if anyone is listening to this who is a a church elder or or someone in a position to create policies for the church, man, I I almost feel like one of my life missions is to and this sounds kind of grandiose but and it's not not a life mission but I really want to encourage churches to take off the reins of their pastors.
23:45
SPEAKER_00: I know I don't think this is an issue in most churches but in in a few churches that I've heard about it is.
23:51
SPEAKER_00: Where they even have excuse me they even have these things in their handbooks their church handbooks or contractual policies where everything you create is owned by the church and you know in my mind I'm like yeah but now now you're taking away the ability for these pastors to earn other streams of income which to me is a pretty demotivating policy.
24:14
SPEAKER_00: And if you if you know that you can use this stuff other places I think you're going to be motivated to create better stuff at least that would me.
24:20
SPEAKER_00: So it's really good to hear that that you've been able to to make use of that material in a multitude of ways.
24:26
SPEAKER_03: Yeah that's and and thankfully I mean I I've never experienced anyone in our church family or anyone in our church leadership that's ever expressed any reservation for it.
24:36
SPEAKER_03: I I think people are glad that I I give it away and and make it available in in other formats because they make use of it too, you know, and and are able to download it or share it online or or things like that.
24:49
SPEAKER_03: You know there are people in our church family that are very faithful to to share these things out there if they feel like it might be helpful to somebody and so so yeah I mean that's never it's never even a question that's come up in our context.
25:01
SPEAKER_03: And uh thankfully it you know I I think everyone kind of has that mindset of generosity like let's just share this with as many people as we can so I know you're a big fan of podcasting and you've mentioned it a couple times in this conversation.
25:14
SPEAKER_00: I love your podcast by the way and I think the fact that you have a very radio friendly voice really just adds to the magic okay which is pretty cool.
25:23
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure you've heard people say that before so you but you do not only one but three podcasts which just absolutely blows my mind sometimes I have trouble keeping up with this one much less three of them.
25:35
SPEAKER_00: I want to take just a second and walk through each of these and talk about the kind of things that you share on those and how you actually produce these.
25:42
SPEAKER_00: So your first one is called Sermons, Bible studies and training and obviously this is where you share your church sermons.
25:49
SPEAKER_00: What other kinds of things are you sharing on that podcast?
25:52
SPEAKER_03: Well it's it's mostly I actually renamed it recently uh because its focus has become uh primarily the sermons but I also but I also want to uh incorporate uh additional forms of training and things like that on there so I I retitled it recently it used to be called the informal Bible study gotcha and uh the idea was I I would share kind of uh a studio version and a briefer version of what I planned to speak about that particular week.
26:22
SPEAKER_03: And so it would be a more condensed version and I would just sit down in front of a microphone and kind of talk through it.
26:27
SPEAKER_03: And I thought that that had merit and I know that there were people that enjoyed using it but I also noticed that when I gave the fuller version of it through preaching that people seemed to appreciate that more.
26:39
SPEAKER_03: And so I thought well I think I need to transition the podcast to just have the live recorded in front of a group sermon as opposed to a brief studio version of it.
26:49
SPEAKER_03: And so I I transitioned it to that retitled it uh you know sermons training and sermons bible studies and training so it allows me to utilize any training that I might record from another context to just be able to throw it in there as bonus content and hopefully uh help somebody but it's primarily sermons that are recorded in front of our church congregation.
27:11
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
27:12
SPEAKER_00: Now that's something that of course every pastor is going to be doing that.
27:14
SPEAKER_00: So that to me seems like a super easy almost like an automatic win.
27:18
SPEAKER_00: Literally all you have to do is take the audio make a podcast out of it and and you're good.
27:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah yeah it's already built now your second one is at least really not your second one but just the second one in my list as I'm listing these here is daily devotions with Pastor John.
27:36
SPEAKER_00: And I'm curious about this one because number one it's a daily format podcast but also it's really really short devotions.
27:43
SPEAKER_00: How did that podcast begin and what kind of and how is that different than your sermon podcast in terms of the kinds of content that you're sharing?
27:52
SPEAKER_03: So the uh the content of the daily devotion podcast comes from a book that I wrote several years ago called the Desire Jesus one year devotional.
28:02
SPEAKER_03: And that I for the longest time I had the desire to write a one year devotional.
28:08
SPEAKER_03: And in 2017 I spent the year one I every day of the year writing out a page of that devotional.
28:17
SPEAKER_03: And uh so it's the longest book I've ever written it's you know it's 365 plus pages.
28:23
SPEAKER_03: And uh it's it's uh you know has that devotional content.
28:27
SPEAKER_03: Each devotion is is focused specifically on Jesus and um and so um I've had people well even before this so that became one of my best selling books um you know that that coming year in 2018 2019 and that book has been a springboard for several things um but it it's just something that people utilize a lot and was selling quite regularly and I thought a good way to utilize that content would also be to record it into daily episodes that I could share as a podcast and people could listen to it.
29:06
SPEAKER_03: And each episode's really just about four minutes long and um uh you know that's that's something I decided to take on as a project for this year to record the uh the devotional and uh just make it available that way and uh it's starting to gain some traction which is really nice to see.
29:25
SPEAKER_00: What do you find is the difference between doing a super short daily podcast and a more of a weekly longer type of a podcast and I'm really intrigued by this thing because there seems to be a huge market for little bitty short daily podcasts.
29:42
SPEAKER_03: People utilize it more and uh so when I when I look at the downloads of uh the sermon podcast that's been growing but at nowhere near the rate of where the uh the daily devotional podcast is at and put it this way I've been doing the the sermon podcast for uh let's see several years now and the devotion podcast already gets more listens than the sermon podcast isn't that a isn't that a little discouraging like as a pastor because you work so hard in the sermons and then the little the little thing is like way outpacing the big thing and yeah but I mean but I mean you have people listening to it daily and they make it part of their routine.
30:22
SPEAKER_03: So I get it because even when I look at my podcast consumption habits, I have a lot of podcasts that I like listening to that are 10 minutes or less.
30:31
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
30:31
SPEAKER_03: And uh and I'll just pop it on where I'll I'll think you know my drive to my office from my house is eight minutes.
30:38
SPEAKER_03: It takes me eight minutes.
30:39
SPEAKER_03: So there are podcasts that I listen to that are right in that time frame that seven to eight minutes.
30:45
SPEAKER_03: So I know when I leave the church to come home or when I leave the house to go to the church, I pop one of those on and pretty much while I'm pulling into my driveway um the podcast is ending.
30:55
SPEAKER_03: You know it's a perfect perfect time for you know a quick drive and I I I assume that people are probably listening to some of these short form podcasts uh in their car when they have to make a quick drive someplace or if they sometimes even you know early this morning I made myself toast and a lot of times when I'm I'm listening just doing something like that making toast and and and doing something that's just a brief task I know oh well while you're doing this pop on this short podcast and listen to this while you're you're preparing coffee or whatever it may be.
31:30
SPEAKER_00: Now when the year's over do you plan on writing new content for this podcast or when the year's done are you just going to let it let it sit and then people can I mean there's going to be 365 episodes so it it you know you're not you're no slouch with this.
31:44
SPEAKER_00: There's gonna be a ton of material but what what do what are your thoughts on then creating more of that when the year is over?
31:49
SPEAKER_03: I I very well may and uh it it the whole thing is was kind of a test in the sense that um I wanted to see if it's something that people found value in and if if people utilize it then I'm happy to create it.
32:06
SPEAKER_03: And um so that's that's an unknown question at this point.
32:11
SPEAKER_03: The answer to that's a a bit unknown uh what I'll do with it past the year.
32:16
SPEAKER_03: But for starters I wanted to see if people utilized it and since they're utilizing it uh it seems like it's worth continuing to build.
32:26
SPEAKER_00: Now some people who are listening to this particularly anyone in ministry or pastors are probably thinking man my my ministry itself is overwhelming and I can't even get all the stuff done that I want to get done for that and they're probably just overwhelmed by this idea of producing podcasts, writing books and so forth.
32:45
SPEAKER_00: How do you actually fit this into an already busy life because you have a family as well sleep and eat and you have a ministry.
32:51
SPEAKER_00: What does the production of your podcast and writing actually look like in practice on like a daily or weekly basis?
32:59
SPEAKER_03: The so before I leave the house uh to go to my office I'll record for that day.
33:06
SPEAKER_03: And um and I don't edit right when I record most times.
33:10
SPEAKER_03: So I'll I'll you know in the morning when I'm fresh uh I'll record and I'll have the files on my computer and I will edit either you know midway through the day if I need a task to kind of jostle my brain in so I can even edit from my office and I consider this an extension of my ministry and and so it seems very much definitely you know fitting to do that because I know that our church family utilizes this content.
33:37
SPEAKER_03: And so sometimes I'll edit from the office or I'll edit just sometime later that night while I'm sitting at home.
33:44
SPEAKER_03: I don't watch a lot of TV and uh I know for me that's one of the biggest keys for staying productive.
33:51
SPEAKER_03: I've lost interest in TV.
33:53
SPEAKER_03: I feel like I'm wasting my life when I watch it although I do watch some I you know that's I'd be lying if I said I don't watch any but I don't watch much and uh in the evenings I would much rather be sitting down uh you know once family time is done and and I kind of have some time by myself I'd much rather use that time to sit down and write or to edit that day's podcasts or or do something like that as opposed to just sitting passively staring at the TV.
34:25
SPEAKER_03: I I find that I relax more when I have a task.
34:28
SPEAKER_03: So some people sit and knit and I sit down with my laptop and I edit audio files or I uh I write content and uh that's but from the production standpoint that's that's how it tends to look it it tends to get recorded in the morning and if I don't get a chance to edit during the day I'll edit sometime later that night and um and if I have time I might sit down and and write out things as well.
34:54
SPEAKER_03: And I always tell myself I don't have to write a book I just have to write a page and make sure it connects to the page before it and the page after it.
35:02
SPEAKER_03: But yeah and before you know it you have a book.
35:06
SPEAKER_00: So what you're talking about here essentially is writing and creating at the margins of the day before you leave for work sometime later in the evening.
35:14
SPEAKER_00: So this isn't some huge all-consuming task that we're talking about.
35:17
SPEAKER_00: We're talking about really small pockets of time that you can use.
35:20
SPEAKER_03: Right.
35:21
SPEAKER_03: And it doesn't feel like a task to me.
35:23
SPEAKER_03: If I felt like this was a task or something that was uh a must do in the sense that I felt like somebody was making me do this, I probably wouldn't enjoy it as much.
35:34
SPEAKER_03: But because it's something that's turned into a hobby that I feel motivated to do because I I get a lot of encouraging feedback from people that utilize it.
35:42
SPEAKER_03: And so I see their faces in my mind uh knowing that they're using this and it makes me happy to feel like I'm serving people this way and uh and it it feels like an extension of God's calling on my life.
35:54
SPEAKER_03: And so because there's a deeper level of motivation I feel genuinely motivated to do it.
35:59
SPEAKER_03: It brings me joy to do it.
36:00
SPEAKER_03: And since it it's a a joyful task it doesn't feel like an arduous type of thing that I'm being made to do it feels more like a hobby that I get to do.
36:10
SPEAKER_00: And you're not outsourcing any of this this is pretty much a one man show correct yeah that's correct.
36:16
SPEAKER_03: I have outsourced some um covers for my books you know I've utilized certain uh help with with things like that and I do know people that can help me with production if I need help with that I have a few people in our church that are very skilled with that but 99% is very it's very much in-house it's probably even more than 99% is in-house but there have been a couple odds and ends here and there that I've uh sought outside help with at least to get me going on a few things.
36:47
SPEAKER_03: But yeah for the most part it's all in-house.
36:50
SPEAKER_00: Now I wanted to also ask briefly about your third podcast which is the Chapter a day audio bible I'm fascinated by this it looks like it's had a great response where did this come from and and what is your production for that look like as well so the Chapter a day audio bible is my most listened to podcast of all of them.
37:12
SPEAKER_03: It's just under 3 million downloads at this point.
37:16
SPEAKER_03: That's amazing and and um what I it kind of started with just my own reading habits for starters.
37:23
SPEAKER_03: I had made an agreement with myself that I wasn't going to read anything else during the day until I read a chapter of scripture.
37:30
SPEAKER_03: And so that's that's how I was operating in the morning first thing when I'd wake up didn't matter if I was reading it from from paper or from my phone I had to read one chapter of scripture and then I thought to myself well I should record this.
37:44
SPEAKER_03: And then I also thought to myself I think this would be beneficial for my children if they heard dad's voice recording a chapter of scripture that they could utilize but then I also thought well if I'm going to be doing this I I should make this I should format it right away so that anybody could use it.
38:00
SPEAKER_03: And I was very new to podcasting at the time but I did it in a podcast format and I made it publicly available and I shared online that it was available and and friends of mine listened to it and probably shared it with others and then I guess it got indexed and searched and then it ended up getting featured by uh the podcast hosts that I use or the like the hosting company that I'm using and um before I knew it it was getting hundreds of downloads a day and then it became thousands of downloads a day and and then you know each month it has been growing ever since I started doing it.
38:36
SPEAKER_03: I started recording it at the end of 2015 and I just would record a a chapter a day and then I would edit that chapter and make it available for the next day and it's just been growing ever since.
38:50
SPEAKER_03: Now a lot of that I have recorded so I don't have to re-record.
38:54
SPEAKER_03: I've finished the entire Bible so I don't have to re-record each individual episode.
38:59
SPEAKER_03: Sometimes I choose to if I feel like the original recording of it, you know, if I listen to it and I think I must have had a cold when I recorded that chapter or or something like that.
39:10
SPEAKER_03: Or you know some of the early chapters I've re-recorded just because the podcast hadn't really fully found its flow yet.
39:17
SPEAKER_03: So I re-recorded uh some of the early books um just because I liked the flow that it found later better and I wanted to superimpose that on those books as well.
39:28
SPEAKER_03: But yeah I mean that's that took over three years to fully record all the all the chapters and uh now I can either re-record a chapter or just utilize the chapter that I already have recorded.
39:40
SPEAKER_03: But even if I'm utilizing something I already recorded, I release it as a fresh episode every day so that it shows up in uh subscription feeds on people's podcasts so that something new right there waiting for them saying hey here's a new chapter for you to listen to today here's a new one today here's a new one and uh and the feedback I get from people is that they really appreciate it.
40:05
SPEAKER_00: You know that it's fascinating you mentioned that I was listening to in fact two podcasts I listened to this past week they both had I I guess they call them encore episodes.
40:15
SPEAKER_00: Essentially they were digging through their file digging through their content and reposting uh an episode that they had recorded several years ago with a popular guest or something.
40:25
SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of times podcasters feel like they shouldn't do that.
40:30
SPEAKER_00: But I find as a listener that I never mind that at all.
40:33
SPEAKER_00: In fact I always appreciate it because it's probably something that I missed you know in years past.
40:38
SPEAKER_00: So if you're producing a lot of content, I think that's a great principle to remember that you can just re-release stuff and people really don't seem to mind.
40:46
SPEAKER_00: Right.
40:47
SPEAKER_00: So it's okay to do that.
40:49
SPEAKER_03: Yeah I agree.
40:50
SPEAKER_03: Yeah and it's and you know with the nature of that podcast there's just so much content that was recorded over the course of years that there's just plenty there.
41:01
SPEAKER_03: It's not like um you know if you're interested in reading the Bible you're not gonna get bored with a new chapter of the Bible being shared with you daily that's something that you tend to be interested in.
41:11
SPEAKER_03: So you want to hear more of it.
41:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah it's not like you're gonna go oh man I already heard this I heard John chapter six like four years ago and it's like so fresh in my memory.
41:20
SPEAKER_00: Come up with something new man.
41:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah exactly exactly isn't there anything new right now amidst all these projects you have podcasts you have a ministry you have books you also have a book coming out with a major publisher and I'm curious to dig into this just for a moment how did this come about and what can you tell us about this book?
41:38
SPEAKER_00: I know it's not out there and available yet but uh will be before too long.
41:43
SPEAKER_03: So that I I learn I've learned a lot in that process.
41:46
SPEAKER_03: So I've been writing uh you know like I said I first started really writing in 2002 but then got serious in 2014 and Amazon makes it so easy to self-publish what you're doing and so you you you put it out there.
42:00
SPEAKER_03: And then uh over time um the devotion that I mentioned the devotional book Desire Jesus One Year Devotional that really started to catch on.
42:10
SPEAKER_03: And I thought to myself I wonder if one of the major publishers would be interested in something like this because it seems to sell pretty well on Amazon.
42:19
SPEAKER_03: Maybe this is something that they would also like to partner together with.
42:24
SPEAKER_03: And I thought, you know, I really haven't explored what it looks like to get signed by one of the major publishers.
42:29
SPEAKER_03: And I wasn't even sure how you go about that.
42:31
SPEAKER_03: I think part of me just figured eventually they would discover you you know if you just write good content maybe they'll discover you that's not it at all at least not for me.
42:41
SPEAKER_03: And so what I did was I put together a list of about 50 well first even before I did that let me say this I tried to figure out what the major publishers were looking for.
42:54
SPEAKER_03: And I noticed that they all want you to they seem to all want you to have a literary agent.
42:59
SPEAKER_03: They don't take direct submissions most of them and so I thought okay well since at least the ones that I was trying to work with didn't take direct submissions they said I needed a literary agent.
43:09
SPEAKER_03: So for me step one was getting an agent and I thought well how do I get an agent and so I I found out what one of the major publishers I found a list that they actually published online of literary agents that work with Christian nonfiction that they have worked with in the past.
43:27
SPEAKER_03: And so I compiled all the contact info for those literary agents and I sent a brief email to them just introducing myself sending them a link to my website and a link to see what other books I've written and all of that.
43:44
SPEAKER_03: And several of them got back to me and one of them in particular I thought would be a great option to work with and so I signed a contract to work with them.
43:53
SPEAKER_03: And then from there he asked me he's like all right well what are you working on?
43:57
SPEAKER_03: And I said well what about what I've already done and he said No, they're not going to want anything you've already done.
44:02
SPEAKER_03: They want something new.
44:03
SPEAKER_03: And I thought, oh, I got to write something new.
44:05
SPEAKER_03: I thought maybe you'd just take something I've done.
44:08
SPEAKER_03: He said, No, tell me what your what where your ideas are at right now.
44:11
SPEAKER_03: And so I told him what I was working on.
44:14
SPEAKER_03: And the idea that I had worked on the least, it was a kind of a new idea.
44:18
SPEAKER_03: He said to me, That's the idea that I think will that's your best idea, he said.
44:24
SPEAKER_03: And I thought, okay.
44:25
SPEAKER_03: And he said, So do me a favor and write up a book proposal according to a format that he had given me.
44:30
SPEAKER_03: Write up a book proposal, give me a few sample chapters, which I had not yet written.
44:35
SPEAKER_03: Something else?
44:37
SPEAKER_03: This is just an idea.
44:39
SPEAKER_03: And uh so I I put that all together.
44:41
SPEAKER_03: It ended up being 30 pages, the book proposal, when I gave it back to him.
44:45
SPEAKER_03: And he started shopping it to the major publishers.
44:49
SPEAKER_03: And uh an agent from Penguin Random House contacted him and uh said, We're really interested in this.
44:58
SPEAKER_03: Uh, you know, let's find out more about the book and about the content.
45:02
SPEAKER_03: But they also seem to want to know a lot about your platform.
45:05
SPEAKER_03: They want to know: do you have podcasts?
45:08
SPEAKER_03: Do you have a built-in audience?
45:10
SPEAKER_03: Do you have a blog?
45:11
SPEAKER_03: Do you have a website?
45:12
SPEAKER_03: All of these things.
45:13
SPEAKER_03: I had no idea how important those things were going to be to a publisher.
45:19
SPEAKER_03: And uh and them signing me to the book deal that I received had, I would say it was partly because of the idea and the but the other part, it was also because they said you have a platform that is already established.
45:36
SPEAKER_03: And because of the one-two punch, we like your content and we like your platform, we'll offer you a book deal.
45:45
SPEAKER_00: Now, when can we expect to see this book?
45:46
SPEAKER_00: Because I can't wait to read it.
45:48
SPEAKER_03: Spring of 2021.
45:50
SPEAKER_03: So uh somewhere, I would say March, April, May of 2021.
45:56
SPEAKER_00: So really, just about a year from now.
45:58
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and the book's written.
46:00
SPEAKER_03: Uh I I submitted the manuscript uh a couple weeks ago, and so they have it.
46:06
SPEAKER_03: It's uh right now in the process of of copy editing, and and uh and so you know we'll see we'll see what the final version looks like.
46:15
SPEAKER_03: But uh the original manuscript, it's written, it's submitted, and uh they have a production schedule that I I was amazed at how long it takes when you're working with a traditional publisher.
46:27
SPEAKER_03: Uh if you're used to working with Amazon, you get your stuff out there as soon as you upload it, basically.
46:34
SPEAKER_03: Uh, you know, maybe a day after you upload it.
46:37
SPEAKER_03: But with a traditional publisher, there's just a lot of hoops that a book goes through.
46:42
SPEAKER_03: But they're doing that to refine it and make it better and make suggestions.
46:46
SPEAKER_03: And uh I've enjoyed the process of uh working with them.
46:50
SPEAKER_03: I really like the editor that I work with, and I've really liked the agent that I've been working with.
46:55
SPEAKER_03: And so it's been a new process for me, but it's been very enjoyable.
46:59
SPEAKER_00: So if you have had not had podcasts and and a platform, this probably would not have happened.
47:06
SPEAKER_03: I agree.
47:07
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I I I don't think it would have happened if I did not have those things because the interview questions that I was receiving were once they moved past the actual cost, a lot of it had to do with marketing type questions and my willingness to partner with them on that, because we live in an era where if I'm not partnering with them, if I'm expecting them to do all of this, that's not as useful for them to make a financial investment in me as an author, because it's like I'm I'm expecting them to do all the work.
47:39
SPEAKER_03: They're they're saying, we need you to partner with this, we need you to be out in front, uh sharing this content, speaking on this content, um, you know, sharing this with your audience, letting people know about it.
47:51
SPEAKER_03: Uh we live in an age where where people don't just where people do their own research, you know, and so they need you need to be accessible to people that want to learn more about what you're talking about here.
48:04
SPEAKER_03: And um, and so yeah, the platform was a huge deal to them.
48:07
SPEAKER_00: So as they're digging into that, are they asking things like what are your download numbers, what are your subscribers on your email list?
48:14
SPEAKER_00: It's all those specific numbers are a factor to them.
48:17
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
48:18
SPEAKER_03: They asked me about everything.
48:20
SPEAKER_03: They wanted to know everything.
48:21
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
48:22
SPEAKER_00: Well, so let that be a lesson to all of us listening to keep on building that email list and platforms and podcasts, all that stuff.
48:29
SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah.
48:30
SPEAKER_00: Well, John, as we start to wind this down, um, I want to ask a couple of other quick questions here.
48:35
SPEAKER_00: Number one is what advice do you have for people who are thinking about writing a book but have not yet written their first book?
48:42
SPEAKER_00: What what has what has writing done for you and why should people consider writing a book?
48:48
SPEAKER_03: So most people at some point in their life have said, I should write a book on this, or I should write a book on this.
48:55
SPEAKER_03: And I get a kick out of how many people say that, but they never actually do it.
48:59
SPEAKER_03: And everybody thinks that writing a book is so impossible.
49:02
SPEAKER_03: And then when people find out that you've written a book, they somehow seem it's to think it's so impressive.
49:09
SPEAKER_03: And the the truth is, all it takes is just some focused discipline and carving out some intentional time and write it one page at a time.
49:18
SPEAKER_03: Just don't tell yourself you have to write a book, tell yourself you have to write a page, figure out how you know what the main point of the book is, outline it, kind of brainstorm it, you know, map it out so you know where you're going and so you have the content kind of mapped out in your mind, but then just write it a page at a time and don't expect it to be perfect.
49:39
SPEAKER_03: Let your first book be short because you can upload it just as an ebook.
49:44
SPEAKER_03: So you don't have to write a 200-page book.
49:46
SPEAKER_03: You can write a 40-page book.
49:48
SPEAKER_03: Some of the put the books that I've written that are only available as ebooks, they're not hundreds of pages long.
49:54
SPEAKER_03: They're they're brief with the idea that they be, you know, something you can download for 99 cents and read in an afternoon over the course of a couple hours.
50:03
SPEAKER_03: It's not the type of thing that that you spend you know twenty dollars on and spend two weeks or three weeks reading.
50:09
SPEAKER_03: You know, it's something that you you read over the course of a day or two in a short period of time.
50:13
SPEAKER_03: But I tell people write a short book and just write it a page at a time and then start from there and then get it out there.
50:20
SPEAKER_03: And the nice thing about ebooks is that if you want to refine the content, then just refine the content, make it a little bit better, and then re-upload it.
50:30
SPEAKER_03: And there you go.
50:30
SPEAKER_03: You've got it, it's all updated.
50:32
SPEAKER_03: It's so easy to do that.
50:34
SPEAKER_03: Uh, but don't overwhelm yourself.
50:36
SPEAKER_03: Just write something short to get the feel for it.
50:38
SPEAKER_03: And then over time, my books have gotten progressively longer the longer I have been writing.
50:44
SPEAKER_03: Uh, my early books are on the shorter side.
50:46
SPEAKER_03: My my you know, more recent books, they all tend to be a bit longer.
50:50
SPEAKER_03: And uh, but you got to start somewhere.
50:52
SPEAKER_03: So just start.
50:53
SPEAKER_03: Write an e-book.
50:54
SPEAKER_03: Tell yourself you're just gonna write an e-book one page at a time, and before you know it, you'll have it done.
50:59
SPEAKER_00: That is great advice.
51:00
SPEAKER_00: Really, really great advice.
51:02
SPEAKER_00: The other thing I want to ask about before we wind this down is about the healthy discipleship community.
51:07
SPEAKER_00: This is something that you're getting ready to launch.
51:09
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you've launched it already, but I know it's kind of still on that pre-launch-ish phase.
51:15
SPEAKER_00: I don't even think that's an actual word, but I just made it up.
51:17
SPEAKER_00: So here we go.
51:18
SPEAKER_00: So talk about that and what it's all about and how people can find out more about this.
51:23
SPEAKER_03: So, all of my info they could find on my website, desirejesus.com.
51:28
SPEAKER_03: And if they go to desirejesus.com slash community, they could learn about the healthy discipleship community.
51:35
SPEAKER_03: But basically, what I've noticed over the years of doing podcasting and having a blog, I have all these people that I'm personally connecting with, people that email me, people that message me, people that listen to the podcasts daily.
51:47
SPEAKER_03: And uh it's become a decent sized group at this point.
51:50
SPEAKER_03: And they're all connecting with me to one degree or another, but they're not able to connect with each other.
51:55
SPEAKER_03: And so it dawned on me that it would be a good idea to develop a community where I help people who are collectively listening and utilizing uh these resources that I've put together, helping them to connect with one another.
52:09
SPEAKER_03: And so what I decided to do was to create the healthy discipleship community where we focus on five areas of healthy discipleship, things that are are mentioned in my book Healthy, um, you know, what it looks like to be spiritually healthy, what it looks like to be physically healthy, relationally healthy, emotionally healthy, and even financially healthy with the idea of using our finances as a stewardship.
52:33
SPEAKER_03: And so all of those things are mentioned there.
52:36
SPEAKER_03: And I thought, let's build a community around this where we collaborate, where we discuss these things, where we make healthy investments in each other's lives.
52:44
SPEAKER_03: And then that way it doesn't all need, you know, I can get the conversation going and kind of frame the conversation in the sense that that this is what we're talking about and this is how we're talking about it.
52:55
SPEAKER_03: But then it frees people to get to know each other and uh actually build into each other's spiritual growth.
53:02
SPEAKER_03: And so I I just made that available.
53:05
SPEAKER_03: And uh so far, so good.
53:07
SPEAKER_03: But like you said, it's new, it's it's less than two weeks old.
53:11
SPEAKER_03: And uh so the community is still in the in the early stages of growth, and um I'm excited about its possibilities and uh and and how it might actually be helpful to people going forward.
53:23
SPEAKER_03: But yeah, it's just that's the newest project that I've been working on.
53:26
SPEAKER_03: Once I finished the manuscript, my goal was to develop the community, and uh so now it's in its infancy.
53:32
SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
53:33
SPEAKER_00: Well, John, this has been a blast.
53:35
SPEAKER_00: Uh people can find you at desirejesus.com, correct?
53:38
SPEAKER_00: That's kind of the hub for everything that you're doing.
53:41
SPEAKER_03: That's correct.
53:41
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, everything's under that umbrella.
53:43
SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
53:44
SPEAKER_00: Well, this has been a blast, and I loved the fact that we've been able to dig into some of these issues as they relate to pastors.
53:50
SPEAKER_00: I have a a huge soft spot for pastors.
53:54
SPEAKER_00: I was one for a for a long time, and I teach at a ministry training school now for my day job.
53:58
SPEAKER_00: And man, pastors are producing some great content, so why not repurpose it and reuse it and get it out there for more people to experience?
54:06
SPEAKER_00: You're a great example of somebody who's doing that.
54:08
SPEAKER_00: So thanks so much.
54:09
SPEAKER_03: Thanks, Kent.
54:10
SPEAKER_00: Well, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with John.
54:13
SPEAKER_00: I had a blast doing it and I learned a ton.
54:15
SPEAKER_00: And as always, I want to boil it down to my three biggest takeaways from this conversation.
54:21
SPEAKER_00: Number one is the power of starting a podcast.
54:24
SPEAKER_00: So, podcasting is a theme that you repeatedly hear me talk about on this show, which is kind of meta when you think about it because it's a podcast, but you know, you're listening to a podcast, but I'm also talking about the value of starting a podcast.
54:38
SPEAKER_00: And a podcast is such a powerful tool for connecting with people and adding value to others.
54:44
SPEAKER_00: And if you haven't considered starting a show, I really encourage you to do that.
54:48
SPEAKER_00: Podcasting has been an extremely powerful tool for John to help him get his message out there and serve people.
54:54
SPEAKER_00: And I can say with 100% certainty it's been a huge factor for me as well.
54:59
SPEAKER_00: Number two, repurpose your content.
55:03
SPEAKER_00: If you've listened to this podcast for any length of time, you know that I'm a college professor in my day job, and my background is church ministry.
55:10
SPEAKER_00: So I'm very interested in John's approach to all this.
55:13
SPEAKER_00: And those are two fields where people are creating a lot of content, whether it's for sermons, lessons, or classes.
55:20
SPEAKER_00: So if you're a pastor or you're an educator, you can relate to this because you're dealing with a lot of content.
55:26
SPEAKER_00: John has done a phenomenal job repurposing his content like sermons and lessons into other forms like podcasts and books.
55:34
SPEAKER_00: And you can do the very same thing.
55:37
SPEAKER_00: Whatever you're creating in terms of content, think about two or three other ways you can repurpose it and get it out there like social media posts, books, podcasts, workshops, talks, uh, webinars, masterminds.
55:50
SPEAKER_00: There's lots and lots of ways you can do it.
55:52
SPEAKER_00: But just start with one or two or three ways that you can take your content and get it out there to people in a different format that they really enjoy consuming.
56:02
SPEAKER_00: Then finally, number three, and uh this takeaway is specifically for pastors and teachers or other fields where people are paid to produce content.
56:14
SPEAKER_00: Producing content is part of your job as a pastor and a teacher.
56:17
SPEAKER_00: And I think it's important to get clarity from your employer on who exactly owns your content.
56:23
SPEAKER_00: Now I know this is an issue for a lot of schools and churches.
56:27
SPEAKER_00: If it's in your contract or some kind of handbook that your employer owns the content that you produce specifically for that job, then obviously you can't use it to make money outside of that job.
56:37
SPEAKER_00: But if you can get ownership of your content, and if that's something that you can arrange and it's clearly established that you own your own content, I think that's a really, really good thing.
56:47
SPEAKER_00: And while I'm on the subject, let me say a word to school administrators and church elders or church leaders who are in a position to make these kinds of policies.
56:57
SPEAKER_00: I would strongly encourage you to give your staff, your teachers, uh your pastors, give those guys and ladies the freedom to use their content however they want to.
57:09
SPEAKER_00: Especially for pastors, I want to talk specifically to church elders for a second.
57:13
SPEAKER_00: Especially for pastors, most of those most of most people in ministry don't have a lot of other options for supplementing their income.
57:21
SPEAKER_00: So I think it's really important to let your pastors and church staff use their content however they want to.
57:27
SPEAKER_00: If they want to repurpose it into books, they can sell, if they want to use it for online courses or something else.
57:32
SPEAKER_00: I think that's really, really a good thing.
57:34
SPEAKER_00: You're not going to lose anything in the process.
57:37
SPEAKER_00: You know, a church doesn't lose anything by letting its pastors and staff own their own content.
57:42
SPEAKER_00: But the pastors and the church staff gain a lot in that process.
57:46
SPEAKER_00: Plus, the added bonus is that whenever you let your teachers and pastors do that, they're going to be much more likely to use that content online in books, podcasts, and things like that.
57:59
SPEAKER_00: So your your organization or your school or your church, it's only going to benefit when your staff or your pastors and teachers are out there using that content on social media and books and other kinds of things.
58:12
SPEAKER_00: So it's only going to benefit everybody.
58:14
SPEAKER_00: There's really no reason not to do it.
58:16
SPEAKER_00: Probably this is not something you've ever even thought of if you're a church elder or if you're a school administrator, but I really encourage you to think about it.
58:23
SPEAKER_00: Make sure you make it clear to your staff, if you can, you know, if this is if this is a policy you're allowed to make, I would really encourage you to make sure that they know that they own their content.
58:33
SPEAKER_00: I think that's really important.
58:35
SPEAKER_00: Well, we've covered a lot of ground in these takeaways, and man, this was a really fun interview that hit on a lot of important topics.
58:42
SPEAKER_00: I want to give a huge thank you to my special guest, John Stange, for being on the show.
58:47
SPEAKER_00: Make sure that you check out his books, his podcasts, and other content, which you can find at desirejesus.com.
58:54
SPEAKER_00: You can also grab a copy of John's free book, Healthy, when you visit his site.
59:00
SPEAKER_00: And as always, thank you for listening.
59:02
SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it.
59:03
SPEAKER_00: And remember that you can find lots more resources for writers at KentSanders.net.
59:08
SPEAKER_00: Until next time, remember that your writing has the power to change people's lives.
59:13
SPEAKER_00: And I will see you in the next episode.