Latest / The Overland Journal Podcast / Patrick Cruywagen on Lessons in Mentorship, Exploring Africa

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Patrick Cruywagen on Lessons in Mentorship, Exploring Africa · The Overland Journal Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Overland Journ podcast. I'm your
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: host Scott Brady and I'm joined today by Patrick koreywol.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Patrick is an extremely well traveled adventure around the world.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: He was an editor for Say four x four magazine.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: He does content creation for front Runner. He has spent
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: quite a bit of time actually with Kingsley Holgate throughout Africa,
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: some significant expeditions throughout the continent and around the world.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: We learn a lot about how Patrick travels, the lessons
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: that he's learned driving so many different kinds of vehicles,
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: and he's had some really incredible adventure stories that he
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: gets to share with us on this episode. So please
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: enjoy my conversation with Patrick. You're supporting our employee own
• 0:42
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• 0:44
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• 0:47
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• 0:51
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• 0:53
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• 0:56
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• 1:00
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• 1:13
  Speaker 1: at checkout, and I'll give you twenty percent off. Patrick,
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: so much for being on the podcast today. It's an
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: honor to have you. You have an incredible history as
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: an adventurer, but also a long history in the industry
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: and also working with the various publications both in South
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: Africa and in the UK. So it's going to be
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: really fun to get your take on a few different subjects.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: But I'd really love to start off with how did
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: you first get involved with adventure travel?
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  Speaker 2: It wasn't something I really planned, so I spent a
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  Speaker 2: lot of time in the military seven years and that
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  Speaker 2: sort of start developed a love for travel. Because I
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: spent some time in Namibia, was nearly killed in a
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: land rover accident there, which I can maybe tell you
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  Speaker 2: about later. That's where the first seed was planted. And
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: then I went back to university after I wasn't a
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  Speaker 2: withertary and I studied and I had a lecture there
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  Speaker 2: called Montgomery Cooper. He was a lovely and he taught
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: us next of journalism. And Monty would travel all over Africa,
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: going to countries and teaching at various universities, and he
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  Speaker 2: told me about this steamship that sails up Lake Malawi.
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  Speaker 2: It takes a week to go up and down. And
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  Speaker 2: he said, one day, we're going to go on this
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  Speaker 2: and we're going to take the most incredible images. And sadly,
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  Speaker 2: just after I left Rhodes University, where I studied journalism,
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  Speaker 2: Monty passed away from malaria. Oh wow, and it struck me,
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  Speaker 2: and in the back of my head, I always said
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  Speaker 2: I wanted to go and do this trip in his honor.
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  Speaker 2: And not long after starting out as a journalist, I
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: got the opportunity to take a toyota up there to
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  Speaker 2: Malawi and we put the vehicle on the ship. But
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  Speaker 2: it was crazy. They didn't even have proper cranes and
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: there were sparks flying, and thankfully they just left it
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: on the deck and people dried fish on the bonnet
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: of the vehicle and put tops on the side and
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: slept underneath it and we sailed up the lake for
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: a week. But I would say Montgomery Cooper, my lecturer
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  Speaker 2: at Road University, was a man that really got me
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  Speaker 2: into travel and adventure, journalism and photography.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: But that's an amazing story, and it's such an important
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  Speaker 1: room reminder of not only honoring the mentors that have
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: helped us in our life, but also being good mentors
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  Speaker 1: to others as we get a little bit further on
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  Speaker 1: in our careers. So you did you start in Mozambique
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  Speaker 1: or where did you start on the lake trip?
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  Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, so we started in Johannesburg. We picked the
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: vehicle up there and only once we were on the
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: road we realized Toyota, South Africa. I'd given us the
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  Speaker 2: wrong paperwork for this vehicle. It was for a Lexus
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  Speaker 2: and you know what it's like, Yeah, Africa. So we
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  Speaker 2: made our way through Mozambique and from Mozmbique into Malawi.
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  Speaker 2: But I'll never forget that border crossing because I had
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  Speaker 2: the paperwork. So what I did was I wrote down
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  Speaker 2: the Lexus chassis number and engine number on my hand,
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: on my arm, underneath my top. And when the border
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  Speaker 2: official was looking for the engine number, I said, no, no,
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  Speaker 2: it's in a very special place on this prototype. It's
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  Speaker 2: underneath the vehicle. But you stand here with the paperwork
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  Speaker 2: and I'll climb underneath the vehicle and I'll read it
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  Speaker 2: out to you. So I then just lifted up the
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  Speaker 2: sleeve on my jersey and I read what I'd written
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  Speaker 2: on my arm to this official and he said, no,
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  Speaker 2: that's one hundred percent, and he stamped us into Malawi.
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  Speaker 2: You've got to come up with all these sort of
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  Speaker 2: tricks and methods. I didn't have time to drive all
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  Speaker 2: the way back to Janice, but of course not to
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  Speaker 2: get the right papers. But so I got the vehicle
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  Speaker 2: into Malawi with the wrong papers.
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  Speaker 1: So that was at the Mozambique border.
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, And then how did you because you started on
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  Speaker 1: the ship in Mozambique.
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  Speaker 2: No, it was in Malawi.
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  Speaker 1: In Malawi.
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  Speaker 2: It's all in Malawi, and I think it's three hundred
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  Speaker 2: and fifty miles long this way.
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  Speaker 1: It's a very long way.
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  Speaker 2: It's an incredible leg It's beautiful. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: It was one of the highlights of the Africa trip
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  Speaker 1: for me because there's very little known or very little
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  Speaker 1: out there on Malawi as a country, and it's such
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  Speaker 1: an impoverished country that you think it's going to be
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  Speaker 1: a different experience. But my experience was just so positive.
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  Speaker 1: Other than there's so many bicycles on the road because
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  Speaker 1: they're so poor, they don't even have a motorcycle. Like
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  Speaker 1: normally in a poorer country, you'll see a lot of motorcycles,
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  Speaker 1: but they're so impoverish that they can't even afford a
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  Speaker 1: motorbike usually.
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  Speaker 2: But it's not called the warm Hearts of Africa for nothing.
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  Speaker 2: The small ailes that the people give you and yeah, normally,
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  Speaker 2: on an African road, a road is life. So you
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  Speaker 2: find people next to the road, they're selling stuff, they're
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: looking for a lift, they're looking for a job. But
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: in Malawi, the lake is the life. For this week,
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  Speaker 2: where we sailed up the lake, you would stop and
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  Speaker 2: hundreds of makurus would come up next to this the
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  Speaker 2: MV Elala, and they would be trading with people that
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  Speaker 2: third class on the bottom deck, second class, middle deck,
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  Speaker 2: first class, top deck. But it was so hot we
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  Speaker 2: didn't even sleep in our cabins. We just slept on
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  Speaker 2: the outside on the deck and the suit call at
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  Speaker 2: night would come and cover your face. You'd wake up
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  Speaker 2: with a black face in the morning. It was just
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  Speaker 2: you couldn't make it up. It was beautiful and when
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  Speaker 2: you stopped for a little bit, you would jump off
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  Speaker 2: the boat into the lake, have a swimp, get back
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  Speaker 2: onto the boat and carry on sailing. It's just such
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  Speaker 2: a unique way to see a country. It was very special.
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  Speaker 1: I've never heard of anyone doing that. But it's amazing
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  Speaker 1: how happy and fulfilled the people of Malawi are again
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  Speaker 1: because I think the lake does provide so many resources,
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  Speaker 1: fresh water, you see the kids playing in the lake.
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  Speaker 1: I was always worried about it because there are crocs
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  Speaker 1: and hippos in the lake too. Yes, at some point
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  Speaker 1: you just have to take the risk. You can't not
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  Speaker 1: do it.
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  Speaker 2: In the center of the lake when you're sailing, it's
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  Speaker 2: pretty safe. Oh sure, It's the same as if you're
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: in Australia and you're in the Kimberly's and there are
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  Speaker 2: salties in the world. But if you I don't know,
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  Speaker 2: a few miles off the shore, you quickly have it.
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  Speaker 2: You jump in and get out again. You take that risk.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, what a special country. So you studied photojournalism
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  Speaker 1: and then did you begin a career in photo journalism
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  Speaker 1: after that?
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  Speaker 2: It's tough. You can't just come out of UNI and
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  Speaker 2: land your dream job. But I'm so fortunate I've done
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  Speaker 2: it twice. I've done in the UK and in Sole Africa.
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  Speaker 2: Literally Monday morning job section newspaper. Do you like adventure?
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  Speaker 2: Do you like travel? And I walked into this interview
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  Speaker 2: and I took a few magazines with I'd been published
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: in Men's Health and Runners World, and I quite like
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  Speaker 2: adventure and exercise. And I threw these magazines on the
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  Speaker 2: desk and I said, I'm your man to these guys,
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: and they said, have you traveled to Botswana? And I said, yeah,
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  Speaker 2: I hag and I'd been to Namibia and the mother
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  Speaker 2: Cheap And they never got back to me, and I
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: kept on phoning them and hussling them, and eventually they
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  Speaker 2: were probably tired of me, and they offered me as
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  Speaker 2: a junior journalist at SA four x four. And I'd
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: never been off. I had in the military, butever I've
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  Speaker 2: never done a formal course or training. And literally my
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  Speaker 2: first assignment there throwing the set of keys to two
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  Speaker 2: point five leterre Diesel forward ranger and said you've got
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  Speaker 2: to go and do some trails and write trail reports.
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  Speaker 2: And it was embarrassing because at the first place I went,
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: I was in Canaden, just outside Cape Sound, and this
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  Speaker 2: farmer had quite an extreme trail within five minutes. His
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  Speaker 2: name is Charlie Crowther, I'll never forget it. Charlie looked
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  Speaker 2: at me. I said, Pack, you don't know what you're doing.
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  Speaker 2: I said, I don't, and I said, he said, I
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  Speaker 2: will teach you. And this man Lovely still Stall my
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  Speaker 2: friend today, and I still go. When I go home,
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  Speaker 2: I go and visit Charlie. Charlie taught me how to
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  Speaker 2: drive off road on his trail and then growing confidence
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  Speaker 2: and obviously later on I went and did a lot
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  Speaker 2: of advanced courses and did some pretty incredible stuff. But
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  Speaker 2: I basically learned on the job, after talking my way
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  Speaker 2: into a really good job, and within a year I
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  Speaker 2: was editor of the magazine. I didn't like that because
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: suddenly there's a lot of admin and a lot of planning.
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  Speaker 2: I then changed and I hired a managing editor and
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  Speaker 2: I made myself the Bush editor, and I just traveled
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  Speaker 2: for ten years. I was off. I was gone, I
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: was out of the off, didn't wear shoes, and I
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: went anywhere I wanted. In Africa for a decade was a.
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: Bit where did you live in South Africa?
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  Speaker 2: So I was based in Cape Town, but I was
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  Speaker 2: never home. My friends never saw me. Every month, I
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: would go out and shoot a cover for the magazine,
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: and I could decide where I wanted to go. So
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  Speaker 2: imagine that the one trip I did was nuts. We
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: took a pageria and we drove to the source of
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  Speaker 2: the Nile to six weeks. Where else in a job
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  Speaker 2: can you say, listen, I'm just going to go away
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  Speaker 2: for six weeks. I came back with twenty stories. Sure
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: there's so much to see and do in that time,
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: but yeah, it was definitely. If I look back on
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: my life now, I'm fifty years old, but those ten
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: years at SA four by four magazine were just magic.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: And that's a great publication. Is it still in print?
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: Sadly not. The COVID killed it. COVID killed a lot
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: of magazines. And because in South Africa the postal services imploded,
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: you can't send magazines to subscribe as we're still lucky
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: in the UK we can do it. But yeah, sadly
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  Speaker 2: the magazine folded.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that seems to be the biggest challenges. Even sending
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: magazines by DHL to South Africa is about half the
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: time they get there and it's just an envelope. Yeah
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: it's not even But that's too bad because and maybe
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: it was under underneath your editorship. But I did write
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: a couple stories for SA four x four, including one
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: of our tire reviews that was published in the book.
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  Speaker 2: So yeah, I think that was our first dealings. I
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: know obviously saw each other Expo West last year, but
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  Speaker 2: you and I used to mail each other in my
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: time as editor or bush editor of the magazine.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. Just it was unfortunately a really well done publication,
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: beautiful color and big book and yeah.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: A lovely family owned business that had three titles at
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: a boating magazine, a caravanning magazine, and SA four y
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: four was the flagship mag and edits heights. The guy
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: that I employed is managing editor, Neil Harrison, did a
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: fantastic job, just took the magazine to a good player team.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: We were a strong team that it was flying at
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: that stage. And it's funny. I spoke to the old
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: owner recently and he said, Pat, I wish I could
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: roll back the years and have you and kneel there
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: again and like the old days. But you and I
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: both know media has moved on so much, so different
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: to when we first started out. Still a massive amoment
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: for great books and top articles and good images, but
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: things have changed something.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: And you have to constantly be diversifying because it is
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: changing so quickly, and I think at this stage of media,
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: it's really holding our breath on how the world responds
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: to AI. And also some protection for knowledge workers where
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: their content isn't being used as a mining source for
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: AI algorithms, and that's starting to come out and it's
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: starting to change because there has to be some accountability
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: towards that, because if you were to do an AI
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: search on South Africa, there's a very good chance that
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: a lot of what that AI has come back with
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: came from you, of course, and then how do you
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: be compensated for that? How do we make sure that
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: we're protecting those original idea individuals from that threat, because otherwise,
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: if if you can't make money as a content producer,
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: as a premium content producer, then all of that knowledge
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: goes away and then it just the AI will just
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: recirculate what's already been about.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: That's such a good point, but for for us things
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: check could we used to use brad guys as the
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: Bibles when you traveled in Africa and the Chinese have
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: come in and they're constantly building new roads tracks for
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: Africa is constantly updated. It's mapping systems, so there is
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: still a demand for fresh, up to date travel information.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: And I think that's where people like us who have
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: got the connections on the ground and an ear to
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: the ground and we know what's going on, they do that.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: No, it really can't. And I think there'll be an
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: elevated segment of content like original books, premium print, maybe
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: even some paywall stuff where people they want to have
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: that authoritative voice and they want to know that it's
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: been vetted thoroughly. But it's just constant. You're constantly evolving
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: things like this podcast where for the most part AI
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: can't have this conversation. You have two people with experience
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: they get to chat together and share that information with
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: an audience. So that's a it's a difficult thing to replicate.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: That's why my previous magazine, I worked for Landriver Monthly
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: in the UK a few weeks ago they started there
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: and that, Yeah, obviously, learning from people, I've been realizing
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: yet you've got to get on that bandwreak and AI
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: can't do that.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: So let's switch topics a little bit to vehicles, because
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: as an editor, you would have driven them all. If
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: you were to pick in your thirty plus years of travel,
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: what's your top three that you have either tested or
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: owned the ones you really love.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: See it's funny. When I worked at say four by four,
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: there was three of us, three journalists there at the time,
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: and we all owned Neil had an old Highlux, Grant
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: loved his jeep with the box he four liters jeep,
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: and I for some reason, always loved the two point
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: eight Defender, which was only sold in South Africa. That's
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: with a BMW in forty two engine. So I'm going
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: to put that at the top of my list because
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: I've owned one for twenty years. I recently sold it
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: literally a month or two, just it's not practical for
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: my life at the moment. It's time. I've been defenderless
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: and I've got a Subaro out back now which I
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: love and I drive it a lot. So that's my
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: number one is a Defender, and it has to be
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: a one ten. I used to have a ninety two
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: point eight. I was a single man on my own,
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: easy off into the Tanqua Karu or whatever. But when
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: you've got a sun partner, you need space, so you
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: need a long wheelbase, four wheel drive, so Defender one
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: ten two point eight number one. I had some issues
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: with mine, but we were always able with the experts
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: that I know and friends, we were always able to
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: sort at out.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: And I love it. They very rarely leave you stranded.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: Defenders very rarely actually leave you stranded. You'll have like
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: the blinkers will stop working, or the winch a person
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: will stop working, stuff like that, but it's it's very
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: rare that they'll flat out leave you strength.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: You can always get home in there, especially if you
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: have driving in Africa and you've got a TD five
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: diesel or three hundred TDI. They are bulletproof. They just
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: go on and on.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: They really do three hundred TDI in particular.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: Yes, even though I said that's my favorite. If I
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: was going to do an African crossing, I would take
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: a TD five every day of the week. I interviewed
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: someone a day or two ago from Germany and they've
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: just spent three and a half months with a TD
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: five in Southern Africa and they had no issues at all.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: So obviously there are other little senses, and those are
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: things you can take along at diagnostic two five, and
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: it's it's just all the dust.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: And so true. Yeah, and Graham and Luisa Bell, they've
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: done so many travels that there TD five and there's
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: has been up until recently. But then again it's getting
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: very high kilometers. So I think for their first five
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: or six years of travel they were just they had
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: no issues. I was thinking yesterday, probably the vehicle. If
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: I was in London, I would probably want a new
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: Defender ninety, of course, because it's small, it's comfortable, and
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: you can explore all of Europe, Morocco. It would be
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: great for all of that. I think I'd want just
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: a brand new whatever had the most fuel efficient engine.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: We saw one at the Goodwood Festival that was like
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: a utility version, so it had three seats in the front,
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: no back seat, It had a cargo barrier and no
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: rear windows and so it was just a box but tiny, small,
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: like not as small as like a Suzuki or something
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: like that, but it's a small car. But eighteen inch
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: steel wheels, like that's pretty cool.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the commercial and we don't.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: Get those in the US. No, they don't get the
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: commercial version.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: So they're quite popular. Takidat for farmers just throw everything
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: in the back. You can rinse it out still with
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: the host pipe. It's got three seats in the front.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: The commercial is a popular option, is it. Yeah.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: I'm glad to hear that because when I saw it
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: at the show and I was walking through the land
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: Rover booth, I was like, you know, that thing is
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: really sweet. Yeah, I would buy that.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: You'll see a few of them is eating around I have, yeah,
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: around London.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, even parking at such a premium where the spaces
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: are really small, it's got a great turning radius. It's like,
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: can I be a pretty sweet little ride?
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: So yeah, that's our number. One is a Defender and
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: if you are living in London, one not get a
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: new one. And also you don't have to worry about
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: being compliance for revisions. That's perfect. My number two because
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: I spent so much time in Africa driving erders. It
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: would probably be because they're so popular there and it's like
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: Defenders are stolen in the UK for their parts and
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: stripped and this thame happens to highlights in South Africa,
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: which is quite sad. But yeah, I would probably get
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: a double cab Highlux with a camper. The rooftop tents
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: and some sort of canopy on the backs. You can
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: kid it. Jeremy Clarks And showed us in top Gear.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: They indestructible and double cams are popular in South Africa.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: There really are, yeah, and then the nice to kid
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: out and you can use it as every day driver
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: as well. You can see five people in it, so they.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: Get fairly good fuel economy. You just have to have
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: about ten different anti theft devices on them.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: That's the only issue.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: It was. I had borrowed Jess's high LUs from easy
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: On and I drove it, enjoyed it. Two weeks after
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: I gave it back to him, it was gone. Yeah,
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: in the hospital parking lot.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: I know. I had a friend, my best friend from school,
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: George as well, brought a Highlus in a few days
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: the golf course got nicked. Now he drives a GEP
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: and you know what the iron it is, Scott. I
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: love this though, if you had a defender in Cape
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: Town or Joberg, no one will touch it because it's
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: just going to break, even though you and I have
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: just said it is if you've got a TV five
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: or three hundred TD iron. But yeah, in the UK,
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: in London, you can't ensure a new range Rover. But
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: in South Africa it's just the other way around. It's
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: incredible how people's mentality works.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's interesting different continents. I remember a good friend
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: of mine in Guatemala. He loved Toyotas, but he drove
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: a range Drover Classic in Guatemala and I said, why
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: do you drive a range Rover Classic because I'm not
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: going to get carjacked. And I was like, that's a
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: good point. I have my family with me. No one
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: touches this car. He's like, I can leave it unlocked,
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: nobody wants it. Yeah, And I was like, that's a
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: great idea. That's a really valid point. Because in Africa,
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: if you're driving around in a Toyota seventy series, it
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: is it's like seeing a Rolex.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: On someone's right y. That's exactly that. Yeah.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: Whereas it was interesting driving the Grenadier across Africa because
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: no one really looked at it twice. It wasn't something
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: It wasn't a commodity by any means. It was something
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: completely unusual. So not only would they not have a
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: market for anything in the vehicle, they would be highly
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: identifiable as driving it. Yeah, because there was only one
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: like in Mozambique or boy or whatever.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: I made a rookie era once in Zimbabwe, but driving
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: a seventy series and we're looking for a place to stake.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: We don't normally go into the cities. And this was
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: when Zimbabwe's inflation was going through the roofs. People were
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: desperate and I've been warned in just be careful and
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: Saint Patty's Day. I was looking for the Irish boss.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: You can have a bit of a dance and a
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: few pints of guinness. And so I stopped to ask
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: someone about accommodation. And I hadn't locked the vehicle, but
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: I was looking at it and within a second there
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: was someone in the front of the vehicle and I
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: chased the guy. It was a cop in his unique form,
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: trying to break into my vehicle.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: And then he saw me and he ran away, jumped
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: into a police car, stuck my head in the window,
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: try and pull him out, and I drove away and
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: I fell into the road. But yeah, that's a seventy
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: series wow in Bulawayre. But I've been warned, so I
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: was silly. I should have just locked the vehicle. But
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: because you just changed to someone on the pavement inquiring.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: About a hotel me and you're right there.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: Happens so quickly. But I've been so fortunate in Africa.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: There's been no incidence where I had a vehicle stolen
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: or broken into. And that's in twenty years of travel.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: That's quite remarkable.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems to be that either things go really
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: well or they go really bad. Even in all of
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: my time in Africa, I've never had an issue. But
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: then people you'll talk to them and their brother was
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: killed in a carjacking or something. So it's very real.
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: It is.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you have to be, and it's just so sad
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: because it's my favorite place in the world.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's once we get out of the cities,
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: out of the big cities, and so for example, if
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: you in Cape Town and you just head up the
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: west coast, that's where I grew near Lungabon Slodana, that area.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: As soon as you get out of there, I mean
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: there is crime at some of those campsites. But once
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: you a little bit further north.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: On your way up to Namibia, and.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: Exactly if you start exploring as a lovely trail along
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: the west coast. You go through the Namaqua National Park.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: You can sleep on the on the beach on the
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: coast there. It's just wonderful. But there there's no one
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: near you for hundreds of miles and.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: You fee the Cedarburgh's were impressive.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: Exactly Cedarburg as well. Everyone they came from Cape Town
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: to Namibia. I say, you've got to take a detail
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: either to the Tanqua Karu or it'll just blow your mind.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: It was impressive and it was so remote that you
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: didn't even see people on the road. There was nobody
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: even walking. The villages were that far apart. It was
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: pretty impressive. But when you look back on your time
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: traveling in Africa, what would you say are a couple
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: things that you feel informed your travel Things that you
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: really learned in Africa were things that are unique to
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: Africa that helped you be a better traveler in the
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: rest of the world.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: You become so adept at getting on a plane, getting
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: off a plane, reading a border post, and just the
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: way you treat other human beings. Little things. So when
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: I would land in Johannesburg and I'm picking up a
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: press Scott and I know I'm heading to Botswana, I
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: Zimbabwe or something. I would grab a whole lot of
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: those free newspapers they leave there. And then when I
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: walk into a border post and a clock, the guy's
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: got a man United football jersey, and I said, did
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: you watch the game last night? Brother? We lost one?
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: The ref wasn't great straight away, and then he forgets
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: that he's there to do a job, and you talk
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: football for five minutes. I bought you a free newspaper
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: Stampshire passport. A minute later you're out and you just
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: another crazy incident. I was actually going to go see
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: Kingsley in southern Ethiopia and I landed at Addison. We
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: were late for the connecting flight to Adiba, Minch and
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: I knew if I went through customs and the airport,
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: I would never get onto that connecting flight, and then
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: Kingsley would have to wait an extra day. So what
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: I did. I got off the plane. There's a man
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: standing at the bottom of stairs. I said, listen, mate,
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: there's my plane, the next one that's flying out. Here's
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: my boarding passer already got it in London. Can you
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: take me to that plane? It's highly illegal what you're doing.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: He says, no, problems, walks me across there onto the
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: other plane, so I know I'm not going to get
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: my back because it's not even off the first plane.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: But I've got my cameras with you. You don't need. All
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: you need is the cameras to work. So I land
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: in Adba, mentioned I tell King the story, and I said,
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: we've got a problem because I've not been stamped into Ethiopia.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: So we had to be careful when we went through
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: police roadblocks. But it wasn't a problem. So you learn,
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: You learn how to get by when sometimes when things
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: are a little bit tricky. And so that's why when
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: you travel in Europe it's a lot more everything seems
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: so I don't want to say stale.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah it's organized, but it does lack some spirit.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: You feel probably a lot more comfortable yet because it's
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: so easy and everything works and you don't get upset.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: If a train it's five minutes late, it's nothing. Really,
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: in the greade five minutes it is nothing. I sat
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: once at airport for two days because there's cracking the
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: windscreen on the plane and we couldn't fly to Burundi.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: That's it's just the way it is. There's a lovely saying.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: It says that the Swiss invented the clock, but the
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: Africans own the time. You really learn to you have
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: that border official and you need to make sure that
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: you don't upsetting. Even if you've got the wrong paperwork,
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: there's still a way of getting around us, so you
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: can carry on with your journey. And that's something you
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: learned very quickly. Otherwise you're just going to you shouldn't
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: be traveling in Africa.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: You have to be flexible. After my border incident with you,
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: where I was there for three and a half days,
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: you just end up sharing food with the border officials
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: and have a laugh and then you have to beat
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: because it was the start of Ramadan, so we had
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: to be very respectful and not eat during the day either,
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: because that's basically like given a middle finger to somebody
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: who's not eating all day long exactly. So we wouldn't
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: eat during the day where we would be very cautious
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: and try to eat hiding in the vehicle or something
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: like that. But just by having a little bit of humanity,
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: we ended up having the police force really starting to
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: advocate for us with the customs officials because they're like
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: look these guys are they're good guys. Where are we
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: holding them up? So they do come to your aid
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: as well.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: A lot of my early travel was on my own,
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: where you just have a vehicle when you go out
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: to do a story, and it's so tough to shoot
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: the vehicle when there's no other driver. But I think
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: that taught me. It forced me to interact with locals.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: So I would throw a couple of footballs in the
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: back of the vehicle and fitness every evening when I
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: pulled up somewhere, walk around, find some locals playing football game,
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: and you play an hour or two with them to
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: get fit at your exercise for the day, and you
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: sleep well that night so they know you're camping. Then
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: they leave you alone and they make sure that you're
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: okay because they feel that you're part of them. And
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: when you finish the game of football, you say, you
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: keep that ball. And I learned a lot from Kingsley
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: about humanity and the way he treats other people. I
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: get goosebumps when I say that to you.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: Because and you've known him a long time.
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been interviewing him since I started out as
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: before wheel drive journalist he's like my dad is my
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: dad of African trouble. We furnish it. If I'm in trouble,
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: I phone him and he picks up the phone. If
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: I need advice. To be there for each other, if
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: he needs a story or something and he's to promote
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: something and his latest expedition. To be there for each
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: other I learned. I think I've been to two countries
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: with him in Africa. That's phenomenal.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: So I remember when I interviewed him. I've always been
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: impressed by him, and I just met him purely by
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: chance the first time at breakfast that i've hotel. He
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: was at the same hotel and I was having breakfast.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: I didn't know who he was, but I recognized him.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: We had a little chat, and then he invited us
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: to a land Rover event he was doing in Cape Town.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: And a special thanks to Equipped Expedition Outfitters for supporting
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: this week's podcast. I've known the owner, Paul May for
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: over twenty years and have experienced his dedication to the
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: industry firsthand during our travels together in North America and Africa.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: Equipped believes in the transformative power of adventure travel. Equipped
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: imports some of the world's most respected brands like easy
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: On National, Luna Alu Box and Escape Gear, while also
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: selling scout campers and at overland habitats to the Utah region.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: For more information, visit equipped one dot com that is
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: Equipped equipt and the number one dot com. So I
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: got to hear him speak for the first time, and
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: I realized that this guy is very special and like
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: you just talked about the goosebumps when I interviewed him
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: at his home, I was that way the whole interview,
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: just listening to this person that has learned so much
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: about what it is to be human and to interact
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: with others and to give a lot back. Yeah, that
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: interview is one of the ones I'm most proud of.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: I feel so privileged to interview him so many times
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: and to have been on so many expeditions with him.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: We've done some crazy stuff together. The ones we flew
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: a military plane into Central African Republic and then we
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: drove from Central African Republic to Cameroon and the only
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: country he hadn't been to. He left us in Cameroon
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: and we drove still through Chad Niger be kin of
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: Fusser back to gharaner gave the vehicle the one thirty
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: back handed it back in Ghanner. But what an adventure.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: For two weeks in Central African Republic, they had a
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: boat race at the time. It's like Oxford Cambridge on steroids.
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: There's thousands of people racing in these boats, about twenty
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: in each boat, all the same colored titious and then
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: the Prime Minister fires a gun into the air and
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: then there's boat races kick off and the first time
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: someone there was another ways and they thought they were
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: supposed to start, and off they went, and they had
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: to stop the race, and because just it was mayhem.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: But we got to see this race and meet the
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: Prime Minister and it was just. But these are sort
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: of interactions and experiences you have when you travel with
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: this man because he uses local guides and they get
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: him into all the right places, anything possible. But the
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: most important thing is he's always giving back to Africa.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: He's not just traveling through there and living in a
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: bubble like a lot of people do when they travel
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: through places. Not you can't travel like that in Africa.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: You've got to be humble and you've got to give
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: it back to the content.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: And he is, and he's such a He's a masterful storyteller,
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: so he brings other people along the journey with him,
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: whether they can't travel themselves or inspires them to travel
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: in that way. What are a couple of things that
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: you feel like you've learned from Kingsley in all of
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: those travels.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: I think the point I just raised now. We were
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: traveling up the Mozambiacon coast and then into Tanzania, and
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: we hired a guy to work for us for a
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: few days and to tell us we're to camp at
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: a local and we just kept on getting further and
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: further away from this guy's a house. After about five
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: or six stages, Mate, listen, you've got to get back
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: to your your house and your family. And he gave
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: me a couple of bucks and and then I don't
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: know how he managed to get a few hundred case
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: back because there's no bus services where we were. I
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: learned from him, from Kingsley, how to interact with locals
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: and how to be humble. That's probably the most important thing.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: But I love kids, and I hate seeing people animals suffer.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: So often when I want an expedition with him against
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: the busy I just head off on my own and
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: like I said, you know, I just can't play football
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: with the kids or the locals. So yeah, he definitely
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: taught me that there's an art to traveling in Africa,
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: and just little things like he has a little official
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: letter some of them when Nelson Mandela was still alive,
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: signed by Nelson and Bishop Tou Tou And when you
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: show that at a border person, I've done the same.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: I've applied at the end in the UK when it
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: was COVID me weren't allowed to fly home. I made
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: up a letter that said from a doctor to say
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: out safe that I can travel back to Africa to
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: go home. So you learn all these skills that you
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: can apply.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: What does he call those books his Scrolls of Adventure? Yeah, incredible,
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: I know they are, absolutely he does.
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: And it gets everyone involved. So when they're doing some
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: humanitarian work somewhere, people come and sign these books and
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: the kids are doing their artwork and they're hanging out
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: reading glasses, and it's just that's the way we should
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: adventure through, not just Africa, but any part of the world.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: Really, So what is the adventure that you've done that
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: you were most proud of.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: The trip I mentioned earlier. So I somehow convinced my
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: boss at the time that I could go on a
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: six week trip and I took three of my best
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: mates with as well. We drove from Johannesburg to Source
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: of the Nile. But it's everything we did along the way.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: We went to Malawi, we went to the Serengetti, we
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: went to Rwanda, crossed Lake Victoria. I don't know at
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: the time, but there's a place called them Wansas if
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: you come out of the Serengetti. We stayed at in
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: Victoria Lake and we put a car on a boat
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: and we sailed across Lake Victoria into a huge Lakey's nuts.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: I mean, it really shocks you when you see it
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: for the first time because you can't see the other
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: side in places.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I've been to Seringeti previously three times with work,
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: but this time because I arranged everything myself, planned everything myself,
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: and it all worked out so well. Just on that
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: one trip, I learned so much about Africa, and I
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: just I just wanted more of it, just an African
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: overload in sixty weeks because as much much.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: Now, where is the source of the Nile?
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: It's in a place called Ginger's that's in Uganda. It's contentious,
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: some people.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: Say that, and I know that. I was curious to
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: your opinion. Yeah, a couple of different viewpoints.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: Obviously. I chatted to the experts beforehand to find out
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: that we went to one of the so called so
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: of the Nile, just to tick that box. I would
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: love to have gone further. I would love to do
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: African content. That's probably my biggest regrets of travel. And
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: then I got back from that trip. There's a company
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: in South Africa that does a lot of TV work
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: and they do a lot of trips. They asked me
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: to be the photographer from a crossing Africa from Agalus
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: to Alexandria in Egypt, and then I started getting all
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: my visas. Then my boss said, you can't go on
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: another two month jolly, so we canceled that at the
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: last minute. So there's a lot of regret that I
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: haven't crossed the African content yet. But things might change
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: in some parts then you could do a crossing.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right now, it's pretty challenging.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, with jobs and kids and things, you can't
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: you're going. I just don't have the time to do
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: a West African crossing, and I don't, so hopefully in
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: the future I will do one. But I don't have regrets.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: I've had so much fun on the continent and I've
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: done more than most ever. Wild is no, but that
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: one trip was very special.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: I think it's an important thing for journalists to consider,
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: is there's a lot of very well travel journalists, but
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: it's important to also break away from these scripted trips
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: or when you're traveling with someone else and planning every
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: single element of it, yourself be the pointy end of
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: the sphere. Yeah, and I think that's it's something that
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: I would like to see more journalists challenged to do.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: Is like what you did when you planned everything? You
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: planned every border crossing. How much fuel did you need?
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: What were the provisions for the vehicle? You dealt with
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: every border crossing. I would like to see more overland
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: journalists do is don't go along on a scripted drive.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: Those are good too, Those are important and you learn
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: a lot or you could test the vehicle, but also
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: get grubby, get some dirt under your nails, have to
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: figure it out, interact with the border crossing officials. Learn
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: those things. I think that's an important thing for journalists.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: Definitely change to tie yourself because you're getting a price vehicle.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: I'm a bit lucky when you took the grind across Efrica.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: Keep it simple and you take the feudal things that
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: you need with I've been on amazing trips. I've been
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: on the G four Challenge, staying fast hotels in Bangkok
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: and then doing two weeks of camping in these Orange
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: Land rivers. Deck are rarely amazing, sleeping in the tent
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: every night. But like you said, it's all scripted. Everything's
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: done for you. There's a pr of Toyota or land
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: over there making sure that everything is fine. If you've
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: got a tummy bagley stick, you know it. So I
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: don't like that. I like to do my own thing.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: That's why often wh people invite me on tips, I say,
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: no worry about me. I'll be fine. I've done this
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: a million times and I'll be okay. I'll be all right,
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: or at.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: Least have a balance of the two. Maybe once a
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: year you just go and you do your own thing. Yeah,
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: and again, be that pointy end of the spirit where
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: you're taking all of the hits and you're learning and
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: you're adapting and you're really growing as a traveler because,
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: like you said, those PR directors, their job is to
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: make your life comfortable. Of course, so it's good to
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: go and be uncomfortable or have the unknowns.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: Then we pass it on in our everyday lives, even
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: to my son. Next Monday, choose that I'm off work
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: and I'm thinking, well, can we do that's an adventure?
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: I mean you have to go more miles. It's just
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: take the paddle boards, take the tents on the paddle board,
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: a little barbecue, little gas stove, and we're going to
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: go wild camp somewhere along the river. You know, if
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: you travel a million miles to have an adventure, you're
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: going to have one in your backyard. My son often
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: you will build a little shelter in the backyard and
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: he wants to sleep in it. It's so important to
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: pass that on to the next generation of adventures.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: And because you experienced so much of that in South
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: Africa and now living in the UK with your son,
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: how do you make sure that he has those same experiences.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: You can still have it. Christmas, we'll go to Australia
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: for two weeks. We go back to Africa as often
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: as we can. We're already planning April next year. We
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: want to go for two weeks to Africa. He needs
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: to see wildlife in the natural habitat. Yeah, we go
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: to London zoo and whoops, and it's good and it's
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: great for education. He loves animals. But he needs to
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: go to the Serengeti. He needs to go to the Kruger.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: He needs to Tasha. He needs to experience the real deal.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: Anyway, our view on wildlife and it changes our view
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: on wild places and how do we preserve them for
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: future generations because it's really important that we have a
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: connect to those things.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: And who knows, maybe he will play a big part
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: in preserving and conserving the wildlife for future generations. Wanting
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: to do that.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: So, if someone was getting just started in overland travel,
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: this is a question that I asked most of the
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: guests on the podcast. What would be your two three
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: pieces of advice that you would give someone that was
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: just getting started. If you were to be able to
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: go back in time to that kid who just got
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: the job at say four x four, what would you
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: tell yourself what two or three pieces of advice would
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: you give yourself about travel. If you could go back.
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: In time, don't need a girder landcaus an old defender,
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: which has become so expensive. I used to have a
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: little forward bantam bucket thirteen hundred pickup with a canopy
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: on the back, throw a mattress in the back. The
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: lovely thing about a country like South Africa or even
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: the UK. You've got Europe on your doorsteps. Two weeks
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: ago or three weeks ago, I was paddling down the
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: river Ton in the south of France, white water, and
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: I was out of my comfort zone. But I felt
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: that I was living on the edge, and I was
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: falling off that board about ten times, and I snapped
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: two friends. I was pushing my life. I was challenging myself.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: So there are adventures to be had anywhere. So I
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: think adventure is a mindset and it's about how badly
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: you want it. That's the first bit of advice. The
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: other one is just keep it simple. You don't need
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: all this fancy year that these companies make. You just
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: need a little bit of feod, a bit of water,
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: a little mattress to sleep on, and off you go.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: You don't need all the fancy stuff.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: And if you find that there's a big gap, then
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: maybe you add something, of course, but you don't start
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: by throwing the catalog at it and just add things
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: as you find you really need them.
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you learn so much. You've being it for a
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: really long time. You learn what you really need. You
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: know that better than most. So yeah, keep it simple
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: and it's all adventure is a mindset, and just get
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: out there and do these things. Just live live your life, man,
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: we're not yet forever. Get out there and have adventures.
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: Every day. It should be an adventure, especially in the
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: middle of summer year in the northern hemisphere. So in
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: the evenings we don't eat inside. We barbecue virtually every night,
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: even if it's in our boutgarden. But we're having an adventure.
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: Have a proper brye.
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: Yes, I know, I've been here too long. I call
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: it above it.
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: When we before we started recording, you mentioned that you're
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: getting ready to go do.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: New York man, Yeah, got it. Yeah, But first this
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: weekend I've got another adventure on of course, as you do.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: So I've taken Friday off and I'm going to go
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: paddle one hundred kilometers on the River Trent, so that'll
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: be fun. And I saw some pictures yesterday that's fast flowing.
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: We've had a lot of rain, but the sun's coming
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: out tomorrow, so it'll be twenty six degrees and one
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: hundred kilometers on my paddle board. But that I've been
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: watching this thing called the Yukon one thousand. It's a
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: thousand kid one thousand miles I'm not sure it's miles
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: kilometers in the Yukon, and that looks so I'll do
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: this thing this weekend and then I'll maybe going into something.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: Crazy like, Oh, that sounds amazing.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: That the Yukon that's self supported. You've got to take
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: baspray and this.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: Is stand up paddle boarding for a thousand. Yeah, you
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: got to have although the bears are really big up there,
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: so I don't know how much the bear spray would help.
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: I know, you probably just find a little island somewhere
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: to sleep on. But they can swim, yeah, or you
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: just don't stop badly. And then I've got in November,
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: I've got the New York City Marathon. I did it
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: twenty five years ago and I did a good time.
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: Three hours study and plan is to see if I
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: can go faster as a fifty year old than I
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: did when I was twenty five years old, and I
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: think I can, so I'm training quite hard for that.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: So I don't just go on adventures in camp. I
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: like to do physical things as well. I like to
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: get out there and run and climb and cycle and paddle.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: That's going to allow you to have those adventures for
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: longer healthy. What are a couple of things that you
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: have learned that help keep you healthy and fit? What
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: do you think are the big levers that you pull
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: for help?
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: And you could say things like diet, but as a
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: South Africa I love eating meat and I think probably
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: eat the process foods if you can as much. But
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: it's just about doing something every day. Really, even you're
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: in London, you just go out for a walk every
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: day for an hour at least. That is something. So
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: it's all about your lifestyle. Once you are outdoors, you
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: are walking ten thousand steps a day or whatever you
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: need to. But set yourself goals. I've got this paddle
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: in two days, obviously, I've trained for it. New York
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: Marathon I've started training for that. Once you have goals
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: and they don't have to be crazy stuff even just
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: can climb.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: I don't have to be a thousands.
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: With my son. For my son, it's a big deal
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: if he does a five or a ten ktle, a
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: twenty k cycle. He's only ten years old. I'm teaching
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: him from a young age that he can do these things. Well,
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: I'll take him. We go and climb Mount Snowden in Wales.
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: It's a full day adventure for him.
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: So just say that's good advice.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: Set yourself a little goal.
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: Patrick, thank you so much for being on the podcast.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: It's been an honor to know you now for over
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: a decade and it's been fun to be able to
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: interact on a bunch of different projects. I look forward
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: to hearing the updates on the New York Marathon on
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: possibly even the Yukon. We'll get you on the podcast
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: for that one. Thank you, and we thank you all
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: for listening, and we'll talk to you next time.