Latest / Coffee People Podcast / Cait Rifkin of Snake River Roasting Co. joins the Coffee People podcast.

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Cait Rifkin of Snake River Roasting Co. joins the Coffee People podcast. · Coffee People Podcast

• 0:00
  I don't know if you can hear it, but can you hear my dog snoring?
• 0:04
  No, I'm really curious when I play this back if it gets picked
• 0:08
  up because he has been just sawing logs for about 10
• 0:10
  minutes. I hope so.
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  I think that would be like such a comfort moment of just a
• 0:15
  snoring dog in the back. Sliding into your screen is not
• 0:21
  just any coffee can, it's a Rostar coffee can.
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  You don't need thousands personalize, just one in
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  memorable. With AI being made in the
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  Midwest, you can expect it on your doorstep in no time.
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  Now that was smooth. On that side and with that, I
• 1:15
  think we're like off and running if that's hard with you, that's.
• 1:17
  Perfect. It's good.
• 1:19
  All right, hey everyone. Welcome to another episode of
• 1:22
  the Coffee People podcast presented by Rostar Coffee
• 1:26
  Packaging. You can find them online at
• 1:28
  rostar.com. I'm your host Ryan Waltz.
• 1:31
  I'm in the middle of season 15 of this show.
• 1:34
  We've done a lot of episodes. You can find them online at
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  Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube, wherever you're
• 1:40
  listening. And if you're there, you know,
• 1:43
  give us a like and five stars or whatever they ask you to do.
• 1:46
  It actually helps, and I feel warm and fuzzy somewhere in the
• 1:49
  world when you do. And now that we've gone through
• 1:51
  all those basics, I've got a good cup of coffee.
• 1:55
  I hope that the rest of you do too.
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  We're ready for a conversation with a new guest today.
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  Kate, would you mind introducing yourself?
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  Yeah, I am Kate Rifkin. I manage a coffee roasting
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  company called Snake of a Roasting Co out in Jackson, WY,
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  and I've been in the coffee industry now for six or seven
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  years. I'm lucky enough that I work for
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  a roasting company that is pretty tiny but mighty.
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  So with that comes a lot of hats and I've really enjoyed stepping
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  into like green coffee buying and sourcing roasting.
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  This year has challenged me a lot with equipment needs and
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  learning more about how to be a roaster tech myself.
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  So yeah, it's a lovely little company that it just keeps the
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  coffee world very fresh and new. Always a learner there.
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  You, you just referenced tiny but mighty, also a little bit
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  isolated out there in Wyoming. I would imagine there's not just
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  like a bunch of coffee techs living down the street.
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  So you kind of are forced to learn, right?
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  Yeah, absolutely. We have a few other coffee
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  roasting companies that also are in Jackson, all great people,
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  but there is definitely that feeling in Jackson of who keep
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  our secrets, which also is, I mean, I think the company that I
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  work for in particular, it's mostly a female team and it's
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  like just amazing women. But like we tend to be very
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  playful with how we view coffee and roasting coffee and building
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  relationships. But there is like the secretness
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  with the roasters that are around us.
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  So you are like on an island kind of, except very landlocked
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  at the same time. Is that, is that a a good thing
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  though? I mean that you are secretive
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  with your neighbors to some extent or like does that keep
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  the magic alive for Snake River roasting, which I want to say
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  snakeriverroastingco.com, I have AI have aco.com website as well.
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  You know, is that a good thing that you're maybe not as engaged
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  with them and sharing ideas? Or is it is it really that
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  you're just in your own lane here because you've got so much
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  to do anyway? Yeah.
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  You know, I think it's a it's a good question because something
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  that really drives me in the coffee industry is community.
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  And when I go to Expos or summits and things like that,
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  building community with other roasters or producers or
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  whatever it might be has been something that's really fueled
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  me. But it's different when it comes
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  to the company in the sense that like we are so into what we're
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  doing and so passionate about what we're doing that I think
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  it's OK that we don't have a lot of community locally because
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  we've really found it internationally.
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  I would say like we have great roasting friends that are all
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  over the US and then amazing friends that live in producing
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  countries that those communities have really driven us a lot.
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  But as far as it would be nice to have that person down the
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  street that you're like, hey, this part broke.
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  Do you know how to fix it or have you dealt with this before?
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  And there's really not a lot of that.
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  But so I wish we had a little bit more of that 'cause we
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  really are. I think like Idaho Falls is
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  about two hours away from us. That's considered a pretty big
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  city. It's not really.
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  It's like more of a suburb Y kind of city.
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  And then Salt Lake City is about 5 hours away, and that's like
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  probably where I would find a roaster tuck if I needed one.
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  But yeah. The Internet has made a lot of
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  things easier, but actually fixing something is not one of
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  those things necessarily. Although if the commercials are
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  to be believed, I can show my phone like some tools and it'll
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  tell me what to do with them. I don't believe it.
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  One day. One day.
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  I hope not honestly, like I I the, I think of the, the ad I
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  saw during the World Series last night, like was like, you should
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  be asking your phone to do more. And I was like, I would like my
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  phone to do less, like do less things for me, like give me a
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  map and let me make a phone call.
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  That's like the end of my. Yeah.
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  My requirements. Everything else is a
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  distraction. There is a resurgence of the
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  nostalgic like landline, Have you seen this, where you can
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  connect it to your cell phone so that when you're in your house,
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  your landline will ring and then?
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  I haven't seen that. Like, it's great.
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  Like I think you're with a lot of people.
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  A lot of people are wanting that nostalgia of your phone doing
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  well. Sure.
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  Well, it puts me at a certain age, which I don't necessarily
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  hide, but I don't advertise either.
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  You, you mentioned, you know, obviously we're talking about
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  Wyoming here, but I know that you weren't always in Wyoming.
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  Yeah. Can you give us a little back
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  story? How did you end up there and and
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  how did you get into coffee? On the way there I tell this
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  story a lot I guess, and it is kind of a it seems a little
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  hallmarky, but I started. I know exactly what you mean
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  when you say. That too, yes.
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  Yeah, yeah. I went to school for social
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  work. I got a bachelor's in social
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  work, and I grew up in Wisconsin.
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  To actually start in a better way.
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  I grew up in Wisconsin, got a bachelor's degree in social work
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  from there, immediately started working at a residential
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  hospital that helped people with anxiety and OCD.
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  And I did that for about 7 years, and it was a behavioral
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  kind of therapy that I would help with where people were
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  doing exposure therapy and all. It was very cool, very beautiful
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  to be able to help people and build connections through that.
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  And I met my now husband while doing that job and we worked
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  together for a couple years. And then he finished his
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  master's degree and wanted to go on a little road trip and he got
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  in an old Subaru and drove out West.
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  I think he was planning on going to Montana, but he pit stopped
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  in Jackson, WY and his car broke down here.
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  And very much to like the whole story that we've been talking
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  about with Wyoming so far. It took like a week or something
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  for the part to come in. And so he met a couple guys
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  here, ended up signing a lease, creating a little life room
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  here. I stayed in Wisconsin for a bit
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  and then I ended up moving here myself.
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  And now he's been here for like, I don't know, 11 or so years and
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  I've been here about 8. And when I moved here, I was
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  very tired just with social work.
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  It was just like a heavy lift, you know, I loved what I did,
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  but it was, it was a heavy job. And so I just kept being like, I
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  just want to work in a coffee shop for like, I don't know,
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  like 3 months, just reset. I'll be a barista.
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  Like it seems so cool. And I got a job at a local
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  grocery store that also had a coffee little nook in it.
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  And I took like a supervisor role or something, but I had the
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  caveat of like, I just want to work like at least one shift as
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  a barista. Like I want to do something with
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  coffee. And so they gave that to me.
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  And when I started baristaing Snake of a Roasting Co, my
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  current company that I work for, they were hosting A barista
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  training and they invited people to come into the roastery and
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  see. And I got asked by my supervisor
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  to go and I went and I remember leaving Snake River after that
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  like 8 hour training and calling my dad who's a huge coffee lover
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  and being like Oh my God, you would have loved what I just
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  did. It was so cool.
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  Went over all these details like did you know this?
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  Did you know that? And then my husband came home
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  from work and I was telling him about it and he's like, you
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  should really apply. And I was like, no, I'm like,
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  they're so cool. Like they know so much about
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  coffee. Like no.
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  And he's like, no, I think you should.
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  And then one of the girls that worked at Snake River at that
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  time, at that point it was female owned.
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  And the, I think the whole team was females as well, which like
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  my social work background also like hit a note there.
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  But one of the girls like kept telling me to apply.
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  And at this point, COVID was happening and the owner at the
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  time was like, you can, you can come on.
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  But this is a mess right now. Like coffee's crazy right now.
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  The the roasting company is crazy right now.
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  I'm just trying to figure it out.
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  So anyway, that's how I got into Snake River.
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  And then that previous owner, she, after COVID was pretty
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  ready to retire herself. And so for about a year, I was
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  able to just be like super educated on everything.
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  So she put me through a lot of SCA courses.
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  She taught me a lot about green coffee buying and sourcing and
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  roasting. Like top down taught me
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  everything. And that was what I did for a
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  year straight, which was amazing.
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  And then she told me that she was stepping away from the
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  company and selling it. And when she sold the company, I
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  was promoted to the general manager and then was handed over
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  the green coffee buying and all of that as well.
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  And now I'm like very into coffee in the most beautiful
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  way. I want to go back to something
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  which is COVID. What was that?
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  COVID. Just kidding, I seem to have
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  blocked that out of my memory. I have no recollection
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  whatsoever of what that was like.
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  That's really cool that the owner took the time to leave a
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  foundation for whomever came in next.
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  Did you know while you were learning that that was the case?
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  There was there was signs. I just remember towards the end,
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  like right before she sold the company, we started going to
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  these meetings. She would like have me tag along
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  with her for everything. Her name is Ruth Ann Petroff and
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  she's a mentor, an icon in my opinion.
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  But she would have me come to like, basically every meeting.
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  And she had a consultant come in and originally she's like, he's
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  going to help us with like, our grocery displays or whatever.
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  And then he kept being like, is this a part of your exit plan to
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  Ruth Ann? And I was like, OK, we're exit
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  planning. OK.
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  But I think originally, no. She's so passionate about
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  coffee. And the way the reason why she
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  started Snake River was because she had opened a cafe and wanted
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  to roast her own coffee for it and then ended up closing the
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  cafe and just growing the roasting company.
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  So, and even now she's retired from this business, but she
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  helps like a local espresso catering company.
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  And then she also I like every once in a while will get like
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  coffee education prompts and like Ruth Ann will be like in
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  the back somewhere at like a coffee thing.
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  And I'm like, oh, there she is, still, still learning.
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  Any consideration for you to buy the business once you found that
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  out? I don't I think I was so young.
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  I wish like hindsight 2020. I love the company I work for.
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  I love what I do, but I just didn't know if I wanted to go
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  there yet and I didn't know if it was going to be like my
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  ultimate fit. But now that I'm where I'm at,
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  I, I don't, I'm like living in such a beautiful place that I
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  like don't regret not owning it because also our owner, his name
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  is Mecky and he's incredible and like very supportive and the way
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  that he can provide for Snake River because he has other
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  companies, it's like a part of a network now.
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  I would never have been able to do that.
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  And like I get to go to origin pretty frequently.
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  I get to go to Expos, I get to go to summits.
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  Like I have a lot of education and that is because there is
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  financial backing that if I was to purchase probably wouldn't be
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  there. So, but I I live in a very
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  beautiful way with Snake River, that's for sure.
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  You mentioned being tired earlier of your previous career.
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  And I think what I think I want to clarify that you meant was
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  like physically tired, not like sick of people in that field or
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  sick of that industry necessarily, but like it's
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  exhausting to do that job both physically and emotionally day
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  in and day out. Yeah.
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  I, I have a heavy dose of anxiety and I'm sure my wife is
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  exhausted all the time, but also just seeing that from, you know,
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  my wife works in that field as well.
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  There's a I thought it was interesting when you said you
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  were like, I just wanted to be a barista like that, like that
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  would be easier. In retrospect, do you find that
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  this is more relaxing, or that it's just sparking you in a
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  different way? It's honestly such a different
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  way and I'm glad you brought that up.
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  I also have a heavy dose of anxiety, which I like talking
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  about it because I have a friend that's fortunate to be like,
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  hey, your anxiety is not the typical person's anxiety.
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  And I think that there is something about people that have
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  anxiety disorders that are also pulled to help people or like
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  help other people with anxiety. And I just didn't realize that
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  mine wasn't in the same class as maybe like a typical person, if
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  you want to say. But I think like, what's
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  different for me is that I was seeing people one-on-one and I
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  tend to carry people's weight with me.
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  And so I would leave and have all this weight on me where
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  right now, the way that I source a green coffee, I'm able to
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  think very ethically and help support female producers and
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  causes that I really am very passionate about.
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  And also Snake River is very, very generous with how we use
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  our money as far as like charities and things like that.
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  So I think it's still scratching that edge of helping people, but
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  in a way that I can also be healthy.
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  And I think the reason why I really wanted to be a barista
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  and I talked to a barista actually back in Wisconsin and
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  she really reminded me of that. She's like, when someone comes
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  in to get a coffee, you're almost always making their day
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  better. Like the whole reason they're
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  coming to see you is because they want to make their day a
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  little bit more special. And when I worked at the
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  hospital, whenever, I mean, we were going to Starbucks at that
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  time, which, you know, is what it is, but whenever we would go
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  to Starbucks, it was like, oh, gosh, yeah, we're going to
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  Starbucks today. And so I just associated it with
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  a comfort and like, oh, I want more comfort.
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  And when I talk to people that have come from other fields into
• 17:05
  coffee, they frequently talk about how they wanted some sort
• 17:08
  of comfort when they decided to switch to coffee.
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  And like, they found this love and comfort in coffee.
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  And so that's really where it sparked is I was just like, so
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  wanting to help people, wanting to make things better, but also
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  just like needed to comfort myself.
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  And it's I by no means I'm not a barista right now.
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  And that's a that's a challenging job.
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  Like you're very physically tired by the end of the day.
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  You're standing on your feet and cranking Coffee in general is a
• 17:38
  bunch of hustlers and workers and, you know, movers and
• 17:42
  shakers. But there's so much joy and
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  passion there. And I still get to make people's
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  day better. So it kind of it, it hits all
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  the boxes, if you will. Sure.
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  You've mentioned a, a few times being part of a, a mostly female
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  team, having a, a female mentor, previous owner supporting female
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  farmers. I, I found this term on your
• 18:05
  website, the Cafe Feminino model, and I'm wondering if you
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  can talk a little bit about what that is and, and how it benefits
• 18:13
  not just Snake River, but you know, the bigger audience that
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  you're working with there. Yeah, Cafe Feminino is a really
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  beautiful foundation that was started in 2006 and basically it
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  was started in Peru and a Co-op of women that were doing a lot
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  of Labor on the farm. And to be very fair, like a lot
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  of Labor in coffee comes from women.
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  And we talk more recently, I think I've been surrounded by
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  some really amazing people that are talking about how much
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  invisible work comes from women in the coffee industry.
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  And Cafe Feminino decided that they were going to start
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  something that would basically separate out the work that the
• 18:52
  women had done and that buyers would be able to buy it for a
• 18:55
  higher premium and there would be some regulations around it.
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  So like, women in leadership is a part of it, and women being
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  able to start projects and ask for certain grants for things
• 19:06
  for their farm and that women would receive the money back.
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  And what programs like Cafe Feminino have done is that
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  they've allowed community change as well because they will see
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  that what women choose to do with money when it comes in is
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  different than what men choose to do with money.
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  And so like, they might be investing in like their
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  daughter's education or allowing more education, or the way that
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  they would upgrade the farm is different or things that they'll
• 19:33
  try are different. So it's a really cool program
• 19:38
  and there are more and more program or even importers that
• 19:42
  are trying to highlight female producers and female owned farms
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  because it's just science at this point that like women use
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  money differently and women invest in communities and that's
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  really helping them thrive, create better coffee, but also
• 19:58
  live a more sustainable life. How does it impact you then as
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  the green buyer? I mean, that's obviously
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  something you're looking for is the impact that you're going to
• 20:08
  have with the money you're spending.
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  But does it, does it narrow your purchasing choices in a way
• 20:16
  that's beneficial? Does it change how you present
• 20:19
  it to your team? I mean, as the buyer, the person
• 20:22
  making this choice, what does that mean to you and and how do
• 20:25
  you use it? I'm really lucky and the fact
• 20:28
  that I'm very passionate about the way that I buy and the team
• 20:31
  that surrounds me tends to be incredibly passionate about the
• 20:34
  way that I buy. So I do think I'm really lucky
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  that I'm able to make that decision.
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  And I also feel like it's never hindered quality for me.
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  Like Snake River also buys incredibly high quality coffee
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  and I think what's been really interesting about it is when I
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  go to an importer or someone that can source this coffee for
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  me, the amount of like incredibly high graded women
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  produced coffee that's out there and then I get to showcase that.
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  And it's not like, oh, I bought this coffee because women made
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  it. It's like this is damn good
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  coffee and women made it. That I think just continues to
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  fuel my team. And then we're really lucky
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  because as a bunch of women going to these other countries,
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  we're also meeting other women that are on the supply chain.
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  And we're able to see like that there's, I mean, a lot of
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  differences, but a lot of similarities.
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  And there's just like an immediate common ground because?
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  Being a female. Buyer alone, it's not uncommon
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  for me to be in a room where everyone else is a dude and that
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  usually goes OK for me because I'm very confident in that
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  space. But like every once in a while,
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  like, it feels undermining or like I have to be a little
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  louder or whatever it might be. But you see that with women
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  producers too that are like, no, I have to like, speak up a
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  little louder. I have to make someone respect
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  me. And there's so much commonality
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  between that, between whether you're a green buyer or a
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  roaster, whatever it might be, if men traditionally have
• 22:10
  dominated that area of coffee, you are still definitely a
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  minority in that even like fixing a roaster, like we're
• 22:18
  calling male tax. And I kid you not, one of the
• 22:22
  first times that we called them, I talked to him on the phone,
• 22:26
  but the tech said, no, I don't hear that noise when he was
• 22:28
  talking to me. And at the time, I had a male
• 22:33
  espresso attack. And I was like, hey, will you
• 22:35
  call him back? Same exact noise maybe 20
• 22:39
  minutes later. And he was like, oh, my God,
• 22:41
  yeah, I hear that noise. This is what it is.
• 22:44
  And as much as like you hope that that wouldn't happen, I'm
• 22:48
  like it that it just, you know, you see it and you see it
• 22:52
  throughout the supply chain. And so I have the ability and
• 22:56
  the power to help support other women and to hopefully lift them
• 23:02
  up and showcase them. And I just do it as much as I
• 23:06
  possibly can. I think I'm an.
• 23:10
  Example of I mentioned you know, I come with a healthy dose of
• 23:15
  anxiety. That's not always been the case,
• 23:17
  because I was kind of given the benefit of the doubt as a kid as
• 23:21
  a white dude growing up in a mostly homogeneous community,
• 23:26
  and I never questioned my. My thought process.
• 23:30
  Or my decision making, you know, until later in life.
• 23:33
  And, and I don't, you know, I think it's, it's great for
• 23:37
  especially parents to provide kids or instill confidence in
• 23:41
  them, but it also made me blind to the idea that maybe my way
• 23:44
  was wrong. And I, I get the impression that
• 23:48
  a younger generation coming up isn't necessarily dealing with
• 23:51
  some of that same stuff, but it's still there, obviously.
• 23:54
  But I, I. I've kind of been.
• 23:58
  Internally monologuing a little bit selfishly.
• 24:03
  You mentioned how men and women spend money differently.
• 24:06
  And I was thinking back to a conversation that I had maybe 20
• 24:09
  years ago with my wife where I was like, I did this great thing
• 24:12
  today. I bought a motorcycle, and she
• 24:15
  was like, oh, I paid for health insurance.
• 24:17
  She's like, oh, cool. Like, we need both those things.
• 24:21
  Yeah, maybe. More if you own the motorcycle.
• 24:24
  Yeah, definitely more. I do, yeah.
• 24:27
  I don't own it anymore. You mentioned Ruth Ann Petrov, I
• 24:35
  think that's the name. I hope I didn't get that wrong.
• 24:37
  As a mentor and and the previous owner of Snake River, do you
• 24:41
  feel like now that you're advancing in your career and
• 24:44
  you're at a, a level of leadership at Snake River
• 24:46
  roasting that you're a role model or a possible mentor to
• 24:49
  people below you? Is that something that's
• 24:51
  important to you to offer them? I think it's a good question.
• 24:56
  And when I saw that as a potential question for today, I,
• 25:01
  I don't think of myself as a role model or a mentor.
• 25:05
  I really, and I think inherently I probably am just because I do
• 25:10
  have a team underneath me and I think that can go one way or the
• 25:13
  other with leadership. But I think something that's
• 25:17
  really important to me is to always be the person that's
• 25:21
  learning. And in the sense of like, even
• 25:24
  if I am showing leadership to someone else, I want them to
• 25:27
  always have this humble moment of like, I don't know much about
• 25:31
  this industry because I think what that does is it helps you
• 25:35
  be more creative about what's going on around you.
• 25:38
  I mean, coffee right now, you have to be creative about what's
• 25:41
  going around. And so I want to create a space
• 25:45
  where people can learn. And there's also like less.
• 25:50
  Less anxiety or? Less stress about when mistakes
• 25:53
  happen because again, we're all learning together and we're all
• 25:55
  in this together. But I definitely want to.
• 26:01
  I want to be someone. That inspires other people to
• 26:04
  try things and do things and think differently.
• 26:07
  But I think that I'm so young at doing this that I'm like, I'm
• 26:11
  not there yet, but I'm just trying things.
• 26:13
  And I hope that it helps people see like you don't have to like
• 26:17
  stick in a bubble. Like it works like you can.
• 26:20
  You can lean into what you're passionate about.
• 26:23
  And I think the only other thing I would say is like when I got
• 26:26
  my social work degree, I was like, oh, I got a degree in
• 26:29
  this. So I have to stay in this field.
• 26:32
  And making the decision to leave social work was the best thing I
• 26:37
  could have done for myself. And I think like more younger
• 26:41
  people should hear that, that like, think about why you went
• 26:46
  into that field. And if the field doesn't feel
• 26:48
  good to you, then just think about like the top qualities
• 26:52
  that you want. And there's so many jobs out
• 26:55
  there that will help you have that same experience that you're
• 26:59
  wanting to provide, right? Like when I was in college, I
• 27:01
  probably had no idea that I could make social impact through
• 27:05
  buying green coffee. And it's one of the biggest joys
• 27:09
  of my job is that the I can do that.
• 27:12
  And so I think like be creative and don't think that you're
• 27:15
  necessarily stuck in that little bubble.
• 27:17
  And I always kind of be seeking, seeking new things and growing
• 27:22
  and like learner mentality like that almost like childlike
• 27:25
  mentality when you're looking at something keeps everything so
• 27:28
  fresh. What?
• 27:31
  Makes for a good cup. Of coffee for you.
• 27:35
  Oh gosh. I mean, there's, there's so many
• 27:38
  good answers to that question. I think like the people that you
• 27:41
  have it with makes a great cup of coffee, but a good cup of
• 27:46
  coffee, It's funny because sometimes you're at like a
• 27:50
  cupping table and there's all these like gorgeous coffees on
• 27:52
  the table and they're like, which one do you like the most?
• 27:55
  I'm like, well, they're all beautiful, but like that one
• 27:58
  that tastes like Froot Loops, that one is so good.
• 28:03
  But then I probably wouldn't drink that every day, you know,
• 28:06
  and I would probably drink this comfort coffee over here every
• 28:09
  day, so. So many things.
• 28:13
  But what I think really. Makes a good cup of.
• 28:16
  Coffee is this understanding that I now have for how many
• 28:21
  people worked on this cup of coffee and being able to share
• 28:26
  that and being able to share like just that, even knowing how
• 28:31
  passionate everyone for this little tiny bean was up until
• 28:35
  the process of me drinking it it.
• 28:38
  Makes a Dang a cup. Of coffee, but I don't know,
• 28:42
  flavor wise I could go all over the board.
• 28:44
  I love coffee, I love trying new coffees.
• 28:47
  I love there's have you. Do you know discourse from
• 28:50
  Wisconsin? I do, yeah.
• 28:52
  Out of Milwaukee. I think yes, yeah.
• 28:54
  They listen, the specialty drinks that they're making at
• 28:59
  that coffee shop are insane. Like I just saw that they made
• 29:02
  like a pot pie latte or something and I'm like, OK, well
• 29:06
  I guess I'll fly home like the. Things that people are doing.
• 29:10
  On that side are also like, I don't know just surprised me.
• 29:14
  I could tell you something that makes a bad cup of coffee,
• 29:17
  though sure is when someone burns milk when they're steaming
• 29:21
  their milk. That's like an unforgivable for
• 29:24
  me. I can't.
• 29:25
  Can you hear it if? You're in a cafe.
• 29:29
  I can hear. It and I go oh shit.
• 29:31
  And then I just smile and I take the coffee and I like leave it
• 29:34
  on a table and I usually go. I feel bad about it every.
• 29:37
  Time. But like that's the only like
• 29:40
  burnt milk. Yeah, I can't get around it.
• 29:43
  I have. The, the coffee cocktail recipe
• 29:47
  book from the guy from discourse.
• 29:49
  And when I got it and opened it up, I went, oh, I'm not making
• 29:52
  any of these. This is too, I'm not that good
• 29:56
  of a barista to do this. We, we only get so much time on
• 30:02
  these shows to, to learn from other people.
• 30:04
  And we have this segment called Coffee Smarter, which real stars
• 30:07
  kind of asked me to ask other people, how can we help, you
• 30:10
  know, other people listening to the show.
• 30:13
  I'm wondering you've already given us some great starting
• 30:16
  points here, but. On this point.
• 30:20
  In particular, how can the customers coming into a cafe
• 30:24
  buying the coffee, how can they have a better experience, a
• 30:28
  better coffee experience generally?
• 30:31
  Yeah, the thing. That, I'll say, is people make
• 30:34
  coffee, right? Like very literally, but also
• 30:39
  great coffee comes from people that are really passionate and
• 30:43
  typically very friendly and is my experience.
• 30:47
  And so leaning into those relationships, because I think
• 30:53
  the other thing that you'll find about it is no matter what part
• 30:57
  of the coffee experience you're most worried about, whether it's
• 31:02
  consistency, quality, your actual drink, ethics,
• 31:06
  environmental, whatever it is with coffee, the people that you
• 31:10
  want to surround yourself with, if you want to have consistent
• 31:12
  good coffee are the people that are very passionate about what
• 31:15
  they're doing because they'll they'll create Brewers by
• 31:21
  themselves. Like people love this drink so
• 31:24
  much. And so find yourself a local
• 31:26
  shop that is willing to talk to you about who produced their
• 31:30
  coffee, that the baristas know who produced the coffee.
• 31:34
  Like have that chatty conversation with that cashier,
• 31:37
  that barista. Like, if you don't know a lot
• 31:40
  about coffee and it's intimidating, don't feel like
• 31:43
  you have to go to the shop where someone's being snobby to like
• 31:46
  go and be with your friends. Like it should be a fun, good
• 31:49
  experience to enjoy coffee. It is such an amazing part of
• 31:53
  our day that we all look forward to.
• 31:55
  So find the right shop that has really great people because you
• 31:59
  also know that they're doing a really good job for you because
• 32:02
  they want to. It's a bit of a.
• 32:05
  Management pet peeve for me to if I go somewhere and I order a
• 32:10
  drip coffee, which is my first thing usually with an espresso,
• 32:14
  and I say, oh, what's what's on drip today?
• 32:17
  What are you serving? And the answer is like, oh, I
• 32:19
  don't know. Yeah.
• 32:20
  And that's not, I don't, that's not on that person behind the
• 32:24
  counter generally, but it's on the person somewhere above them
• 32:26
  that didn't think that it mattered enough to teach those
• 32:30
  people who would then teach me as the customer what's
• 32:33
  happening. Jackson, Wyoming.
• 32:36
  You mentioned a beautiful place. Who are you outside of coffee?
• 32:41
  I assume you're, you're not living in Jackson if you're not
• 32:43
  going outside sometimes. But you know, what's your, what
• 32:46
  are the things outside of work that bring you back to reality?
• 32:50
  Yeah. That's a hard one for me.
• 32:52
  I tend to be a bit of a workaholic, but I just love
• 32:56
  coffee. But you know, we definitely go
• 33:01
  out a lot. It's the whole reason for living
• 33:03
  here. Like you said, just learned how
• 33:06
  to ski in the West the last couple of years, which is very
• 33:10
  different than skiing in Wisconsin, which shouldn't even
• 33:13
  be considered skiing. Where did you learn in?
• 33:15
  Wisconsin, might I ask? Gosh, I.
• 33:19
  It's like by Wisconsin Dells. What's the place right off the
• 33:24
  highway? What is?
• 33:24
  That place I'll I'll find the name of.
• 33:27
  It and link to it in the newsletter, but I I know where
• 33:29
  that is. Yeah, yeah, my brother.
• 33:31
  Actually would take me and I remember the first time I went
• 33:34
  with him, he I think he was doing everything right, but I
• 33:39
  like took a wrong turn and all of a sudden there was like ramps
• 33:43
  and jumps and like it was in my head.
• 33:47
  It's like a cartoon of how bad that went.
• 33:50
  But yeah, it's definitely a wild game here learning how to ski.
• 33:54
  We got our first snow yesterday, so it's very fresh top of mind
• 33:59
  that ski season is here backpacking.
• 34:03
  We own like a little property that outside of Jackson about an
• 34:08
  hour that is a burnt forest that me and my husband are restoring
• 34:13
  with like a bunch of baby trees which is so cool.
• 34:17
  What made that something? You wanted to do that's I mean
• 34:20
  if usually when people say we're buying some land, it's because
• 34:23
  they're going there to relax. Why buy land that you have to
• 34:26
  work on? Yeah, my.
• 34:28
  Husband, I like to say that his personality is straight border
• 34:31
  collie, like we've got to work in like and this is his
• 34:36
  decision. So, so far we've owned the land
• 34:39
  for like 3 years and I think we've planted 450 baby trees on
• 34:44
  it, which then we also hand water said baby trees, which
• 34:49
  it's mountainous. So you're climbing up and down
• 34:52
  mountains. I have just like the tiniest
• 34:54
  appreciation or understanding, I should say, of what a coffee
• 34:57
  farmer does in those mountainous areas by carrying this water on
• 35:00
  my back. But we spend a lot of time over
• 35:02
  there. It's on this migration corridor
• 35:08
  that's like highly protected and everyone that's in that
• 35:12
  subdivision has like an extreme love for wildlife, which is also
• 35:16
  really important to me and my husband.
• 35:18
  So when we got the opportunity to purchase this land, we were
• 35:21
  like, well, we have to, it's on one of like the major migration
• 35:25
  routes in the, in the US. So really cool.
• 35:30
  We spend a lot of time there. We're building like a little
• 35:32
  cabin on it. It's it's great.
• 35:35
  That's fun. But like a lot of outdoors time,
• 35:37
  trail running sometimes with some friends, I like to do a lot
• 35:40
  of art. I'm a busy gal.
• 35:43
  I do a lot. There's also.
• 35:45
  Quite the stack of books behind you.
• 35:48
  If you had to share one book with us, what would that book be
• 35:51
  on that shelf? Oh my gosh.
• 35:52
  OK. So I just started a new series.
• 35:54
  I read a lot as well. I started a new series called
• 35:59
  Dungeon Crawler Carl, I think is the order of those words.
• 36:03
  It is this chaotic book, but I'm having the best time.
• 36:09
  It's basically like a video game in a book and he has a cat and I
• 36:13
  just got a cat. So it just feels perfect, you
• 36:15
  know? Is there anything that we.
• 36:18
  Didn't cover today that you really wanted to talk about or
• 36:21
  you wanted people to know about Snake River, about your coffee
• 36:25
  efforts, anything else in the world.
• 36:27
  I guess the only. Other thing that I would say is
• 36:32
  politics, I think are something that are very alive and well.
• 36:36
  And I think if you're going into coffee buying, something that
• 36:40
  I'm really learning in the last few years and I wish someone
• 36:43
  would have given me this advice earlier, is how much politics
• 36:47
  influence coffee buying, especially in producing
• 36:51
  countries as well. And I think especially if you're
• 36:56
  a United States person, we tend to be very focused on our own
• 36:59
  individual politics. And the things that I've learned
• 37:02
  over the last couple of years is starting to expand that more
• 37:07
  into all of the countries that I'm also gathering coffee from.
• 37:12
  It's been a giant pool to jump into that.
• 37:16
  I just wish I would have had that information earlier.
• 37:19
  But I mean, I have it now, But I would definitely start to think
• 37:23
  about like what's going on in the countries that you're
• 37:25
  sourcing from because I think that helps with a little bit
• 37:28
  more consistency of what to expect.
• 37:31
  And also I think if you are a buyer in particular you're.
• 37:37
  Going to do. Yourself a whole lot of good to
• 37:39
  build relationships with those producers. 2 years ago when
• 37:44
  Brazil had that frost, I knew about it before I would say most
• 37:49
  people knew about it. And I had my car, my coffee
• 37:53
  secured for the year before it had even hit news.
• 37:57
  And that was all because of those relationships that I've
• 37:59
  built. So ultimately, like it's so, so
• 38:05
  many areas to dive into, but the politics piece and the producer
• 38:09
  relationship piece I think are so key and people maybe aren't
• 38:14
  talking about those pieces as much.
• 38:17
  I appreciate that. You're looking at the politics
• 38:20
  as this, this learning piece that can help you in your
• 38:23
  career. And I'm just looking at it as
• 38:25
  the thing that brings me more anxiety.
• 38:28
  That's what you know. I mean, it does.
• 38:32
  It does. When you're out in the world and
• 38:36
  you got to stop into a, let's say, a good coffee shop that's
• 38:39
  not, you know, they don't have Snake River, but what is it that
• 38:42
  you would generally order? So usually my husband will
• 38:47
  always order a pour over and then I will order a cortado and
• 38:52
  then we share. But the new thing that I'm also
• 38:55
  doing is any like specialty seasonal item that they're
• 38:59
  really excited about. I will get that too.
• 39:02
  I had like a strawberry latte somewhere, which I had had a
• 39:05
  strawberry latte before, but this one, it tasted like Nesquik
• 39:10
  strawberry milk and I think about it frequently.
• 39:13
  So just like that mix of like a little bit of traditional also
• 39:17
  some fun factor that people are stoked on.
• 39:20
  So I typically I'm ordering at least two to three drinks if I'm
• 39:23
  very excited about a place, which is.
• 39:26
  Great. I had to really convince my wife
• 39:29
  that it was OK to order more than one because she'd be like,
• 39:32
  well, I already I already got one.
• 39:33
  I'm like, no, that's yeah. But you would like to try more
• 39:35
  than one, right? Like we don't have to drink it.
• 39:37
  Yeah, just roll this. Moment back to her like at least
• 39:41
  two to three drinks I want to make sure we.
• 39:44
  Say it one more time, people can learn more about the company you
• 39:48
  work for or order coffee, I assume Snake River Roasting,
• 39:52
  co.com, social media, Snake River Roasting Co as well.
• 39:57
  Those links will be in the show and our show notes in our
• 39:59
  newsletter everywhere. Caitlin, thank you.
• 40:03
  Thank you for spending the time. And it sounds like you're really
• 40:06
  busy, so now I appreciate it even more.
• 40:11
  Anything, anything else we want to say to anyone?
• 40:14
  No. This was so fun, thank.
• 40:15
  You for having me do do you is. Your husband a coffee person
• 40:19
  too? Oh yeah, I mean, he's the.
• 40:21
  Worst critic I have if like he will, he'll tell me exactly if I
• 40:26
  brew him coffee. He's like, I think it's a little
• 40:28
  off today. I'm like, oh, OK, we.
• 40:32
  Love it. We love a.
• 40:33
  Consistent, honest person, but I mean he consumes a lot of snake
• 40:37
  ribbon coffee. The.