Latest / Founder Talk with Alex Sheridan / How to Be a GREAT Leader (Top 1%) With Clay Stelzer

Transcript

How to Be a GREAT Leader (Top 1%) With Clay Stelzer · Founder Talk with Alex Sheridan

• 0:00
  All right, man, round two, let's do it.
• 0:03
  You know, the first one was pretty damn good.
• 0:04
  People love that episode, so I'm excited to get into it with you.
• 0:07
  You just got back. You're helping.
• 0:09
  I saw 50 brilliant leaders navigate how they operate as an
• 0:14
  organization. I saw you do a post about that
• 0:16
  on LinkedIn. I wanted to just kind of dive
• 0:18
  into that first and say what was that kind of engagement like and
• 0:22
  what were some of the key takeaways from working with
• 0:24
  those leaders? Yeah, sure.
• 0:26
  So give me a minute while I think about what it was that I
• 0:30
  did in that workshop. Something I'm conscious
• 0:34
  leadership or? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 0:37
  So. I was in there.
• 0:38
  No, I was kidding. We had a spy.
• 0:40
  We. So in that workshop, I
• 0:43
  introduced a couple of fundamentals that I introduced
• 0:45
  every one of my clients and every team that I work with.
• 0:49
  We worked on sharing unarguably. And what that means is, well,
• 0:58
  improving the amount of communication feedback that
• 1:00
  happens within an organization. And you know, I've been in lots
• 1:06
  of organizations and I've never met anyone that doesn't value
• 1:09
  communication and feedback. Everyone says, of course we
• 1:11
  value communication and feedback.
• 1:13
  And I've never been in an organization where everyone is
• 1:17
  sharing all of what there is to share.
• 1:19
  So, so what's the deal? Everyone values it, but it's not
• 1:22
  happening. So, you know, I've got some
• 1:25
  thoughts on what's in the way. And so that's what we explored
• 1:28
  there and we can talk about that today.
• 1:30
  The second thing we talked about is how to eliminate drama in
• 1:34
  organizations through what we call impeccable agreements.
• 1:38
  Yeah. So when I go and I hang out in
• 1:40
  a, in a different organization, the number one, the number one
• 1:46
  cause of drama in organizations is what I refer to as sloppy
• 1:49
  agreements. And there's a lot of different
• 1:52
  types of sloppy agreements, some of which are, which is simply
• 1:56
  not being specific about what you're wanting.
• 1:58
  But I think that's the obvious one.
• 2:00
  The, the less obvious 1 is when people are saying yes when they
• 2:03
  don't mean yes. And that leads to all kinds of
• 2:07
  drama and resentment and exhaustion and nothing good in
• 2:11
  organizations. So we talked about both of those
• 2:13
  things. It was terrific.
• 2:14
  We had a blast. Cool.
• 2:16
  We're definitely going to dive into this and this is super
• 2:18
  valuable for founders, entrepreneurs listening or
• 2:20
  aspiring for two reasons. 1, you work with a lot of CE OS
• 2:24
  founders, business owners to improve how they interact with
• 2:27
  their team, performance, things like that.
• 2:29
  But I think the other aspect is like, this is just good, what
• 2:32
  I'd call kind of psychological mental health type things.
• 2:36
  It's not like fluffy Duffy. Stuff like this is real shit
• 2:38
  that holds people back. Like it all goes back to what's
• 2:41
  going on up in here and here, obviously.
• 2:42
  And so I think there's just value.
• 2:44
  Even if you weren't even in a business, I think you'd get a
• 2:46
  ton of value from this. It's just people skills.
• 2:48
  It's just people stuff in the business context.
• 2:50
  I use these same tools with my wife, with my daughter, all my
• 2:53
  friends. Exactly.
• 2:54
  So let's let's get into the first thing you said, which is
• 2:57
  the communication piece. Everyone agrees.
• 2:59
  We yeah, we want to communicate. We want to be open and honest.
• 3:01
  We want to share things, but it doesn't happen.
• 3:04
  Why? Why doesn't it happen in the 1st
• 3:06
  place from what you see? It doesn't happen because people
• 3:09
  are scared and that doesn't necessarily mean that people are
• 3:14
  consciously aware of their fear. But as human beings, we are
• 3:18
  designed like biologically to avoid doing anything or saying
• 3:23
  anything that's going to put us in dangerous way.
• 3:27
  So if we're never going to say something to someone, that is
• 3:30
  going to potentially impact our sense of security in the world.
• 3:34
  Why do some people not have that filter as much?
• 3:36
  So some people are just like, yo, you're fucking, you look
• 3:41
  like you look stupid. This is like, you know, not that
• 3:44
  you want to be doing that type of communication, but it seems
• 3:46
  like some people are just willing to like, they just don't
• 3:48
  have a problem with it. And then there's a scale where
• 3:51
  it's like the other people or some people that like don't want
• 3:53
  to share anything. And then there's probably like a
• 3:55
  happy middle where most people are.
• 3:57
  Yeah. So I mean, there's certainly
• 3:58
  different personality types in the world, and most of that
• 4:02
  comes from how you were raised and the people you surrounded
• 4:05
  yourself with as a young person. So, you know, for some people,
• 4:09
  it doesn't actually feel consequential to be really
• 4:11
  outspoken given their upbringing.
• 4:14
  Got it. Yeah, OK.
• 4:16
  And so people aren't sharing because there's, they're
• 4:18
  fearful, they don't want to. And I think it goes back to
• 4:20
  probably survival, right? We're trying to survive.
• 4:23
  I don't want to get kicked out of the tribe.
• 4:24
  I don't want my identity to come into, you know, like exactly
• 4:27
  walk us through some of that stuff, like what's actually
• 4:29
  happening in the mind when we're trying to, we want to speak out
• 4:32
  about something or share something, but we don't.
• 4:34
  Well, I think what's happening in the mind is not a whole lot,
• 4:38
  honestly. It's not like we're, it's not
• 4:40
  like we're sitting here thinking I've got something to share with
• 4:42
  that person and I'm too scared to share it, so I'm not going to
• 4:44
  share it. That doesn't happen all that
• 4:46
  much, but usually when I'm talking with someone, a client
• 4:50
  or whatever, and I'll ask, have you gone all the way?
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  Have you shared all of what there is to share with that
• 4:54
  other person? And the answer is almost always
• 4:55
  no. And then I'll ask, so what's in
• 4:58
  the way? Why haven't you shared that?
• 5:00
  And then they start thinking about it.
• 5:02
  Well, I guess I'm doing it because I don't, I don't know
• 5:04
  what'll happen if I do. And then we keep going there.
• 5:07
  Well, maybe I'll get fired. Maybe.
• 5:09
  And you know, this is where our biology takes over.
• 5:11
  If we lose our job, then all of a sudden we're in this belief
• 5:14
  that we're not going to be able to take care of our family and
• 5:16
  have, you know, food on the table and shelter.
• 5:19
  And this is all just our process that's unconscious.
• 5:22
  So more than anything in these tools I like bringing to people,
• 5:25
  it's helping them wake up and see their humanity, help them
• 5:28
  see what they're doing unconsciously or not doing
• 5:31
  unconsciously. And, you know, love all of that
• 5:35
  and appreciate and accept all of that.
• 5:36
  We're an incredible animal species.
• 5:39
  But then choose with intention to share the thing that you're
• 5:42
  not sharing. Like, is it really true that
• 5:44
  you'll get fired if you share with your boss something that
• 5:47
  you believe will help them be more successful?
• 5:50
  Like, And in fact, how might the opposite be true?
• 5:53
  How might they just so appreciate you sharing feedback
• 5:56
  for them because no one else is? Yeah.
• 5:59
  Like we can't improve if we're not getting feedback.
• 6:02
  Yeah. I know very there's very few
• 6:06
  organizations where upwards feedback is seen all that
• 6:09
  regularly and it everyone loses when that happens.
• 6:13
  Yeah, it's fine. We had this conversation, not
• 6:17
  quite to the degree that probably you're talking about
• 6:19
  here with leadership and teams and people need to communicate
• 6:21
  something really valuable and they're not.
• 6:23
  But we had a little micro dose of that.
• 6:24
  Jim right this morning where like he was, I was talking to my
• 6:27
  team and we're filming, he's filming this film content.
• 6:29
  He's our content director. Jim's doing an awesome job and
• 6:33
  he's over here and I start looking this way to talk to my
• 6:36
  on a call of my team and he's trying to film me.
• 6:39
  He's trying to get a good shot. He's trying to do his job right.
• 6:41
  And I'm like, nice job. Like I appreciate that.
• 6:43
  And then all of a sudden, because I turn this way, he
• 6:45
  starts coming over here in the corner and he's like trying to
• 6:48
  work his what best way around all this equipment.
• 6:51
  And so he's just trying to get a great shot for me.
• 6:53
  But I was like, Jim, I was like, just tell me to move.
• 6:56
  I was like, just be like, Alex, can you move your body this way?
• 6:59
  Move your head this way? And so there was a little bit of
• 7:01
  hesitation even there for him to say in that moment, hey, need
• 7:05
  you to move a little bit. Yeah.
• 7:06
  You know, sometimes that might just be he's just trying to be
• 7:09
  accommodating. Yeah, he was.
• 7:11
  But oftentimes it's I'm scared to speak up and it's again, it's
• 7:14
  not a Jim may not have been thinking, Hey, I'm scared to
• 7:18
  speak up for Alex, right? It just we just avoid naturally
• 7:22
  right conflict. Conflict.
• 7:23
  Yeah. And so we just don't speak up,
• 7:25
  Yeah. Yeah, Yeah.
• 7:26
  Would you say that's probably what it was, just trying to be
• 7:28
  accommodating and not? That's exactly what I was on a
• 7:30
  call. He didn't want to disrupt me.
• 7:31
  It's all come from a good place. Right.
• 7:33
  Yeah, that's a thing like most of us, like we mean well.
• 7:35
  We mean well, right? We all want to be successful.
• 7:38
  We want each. Generally, if you care about the
• 7:39
  people you work with, we want each other to be successful.
• 7:42
  So what do you do in that situation afterwards, right,
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  Because I just went, I like using real life examples because
• 7:47
  like for people, this is relatable.
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  It's real versus like, oh, something you know.
• 7:50
  And so as we go through this, I'll try to bring up examples.
• 7:53
  But afterwards I was like, hey, dude, I appreciate you trying to
• 7:55
  get the shot. I was like, next time though,
• 7:57
  just tell me. I was like, you're the director.
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  You own that. I like just, you know, pull me
• 8:01
  this or just ask me to move whatever, whatever you need from
• 8:03
  me. Well, I think that's awesome.
• 8:04
  And I mean seems like that that's a great strategy.
• 8:07
  I'd be curious what Jim, you know, what do you think and
• 8:09
  having heard that, what do you was that helpful?
• 8:13
  I think it was. It definitely created more so of
• 8:15
  an. It definitely helps to reorient
• 8:18
  the dynamic going forward. Where like I.
• 8:21
  It's OK if I'm a little bit disrupted because at the end of
• 8:24
  the day it helps both of us do our job better.
• 8:26
  Yeah. Yeah, oftentimes we just,
• 8:29
  especially with our bosses, we just need to feel a little
• 8:32
  permission, like it's, you know, once we get permission from our
• 8:35
  bosses to speak up, yes. Then it just, it just eases our
• 8:39
  nervous system and we're just able to do it.
• 8:41
  Yeah, more, you know, more comfortably.
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  And, and what I tell people is when I introduce this stuff to
• 8:47
  them, it doesn't work unless the CEO is willing to play ball.
• 8:50
  Totally. Because everyone just going to
• 8:52
  be too scared unless the CEO or whoever the executive leader is,
• 8:56
  is speaking up and saying I would actually be more upset if
• 9:00
  you didn't give me feedback. No one's going to.
• 9:04
  It's just too scary. Yeah, it's it's unnatural, like
• 9:08
  a lot of the stuff I'm asking people to do might be, you might
• 9:12
  classify it as unnatural in some ways.
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  I think it's incredibly natural, but it's also like unnatural
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  because we're all just trying to stay alive, right at the
• 9:21
  fundamental level. What helps people sort of get
• 9:24
  out of their comfort zone? Because it seems like a lot of
• 9:26
  times we're just kind of staying in the comfort zone that we've
• 9:28
  known from childhood, adulthood. Is there any certain things that
• 9:32
  you try to like get through to somebody to say you've you've
• 9:35
  got to start to push out of your like even maybe next time, Jim,
• 9:38
  I'm curious to see, you know, when he needs the shot.
• 9:40
  He goes, hey, can I get you to turn, you know?
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  I don't think anyone's going to bother changing their behavior
• 9:45
  unless they have a relationship with the cost they're paying
• 9:49
  staying in the same pattern. Until people see clearly when I
• 9:54
  don't speak up, here's what happens.
• 9:57
  And they begin taking ownership of that.
• 9:59
  That's what motivates them to create change.
• 10:01
  If people aren't able to associate the cost that they're
• 10:04
  paying with their inaction, they're not going to change.
• 10:08
  And so I don't ever, I don't really believe there's a right
• 10:11
  or wrong way to be, but the approach I like to take with my
• 10:15
  clients is I, I do like to create awareness around what
• 10:18
  you're creating in your life and in your business and on your
• 10:20
  teams. I like to connect dots that they
• 10:23
  may not be seen. I will help them begin to take
• 10:28
  responsibility for the cost, not by blaming them for it, but just
• 10:32
  to create awareness around and then ask.
• 10:33
  So I don't know how, how happy are you with that outcome?
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  Is that what you want? Are you comfortable with that or
• 10:39
  do you want something else? If you want something else, OK,
• 10:41
  well then now we can talk about choosing a different reaction or
• 10:46
  choosing a different behavior. So maybe looking back, not to
• 10:49
  overanalyze this, but maybe looking back, I would have asked
• 10:52
  Jim, how do you feel about being over there for the shot, you
• 10:55
  know, like had like maybe walking through.
• 10:56
  Do you think that's over Just overanalyze it?
• 10:58
  I can just tell them in this case hey.
• 11:00
  I love what you did. You know, sometimes we can mask
• 11:05
  our own feedback with a question because it probably feels a
• 11:08
  little safer and easier to do that.
• 11:10
  But it might be, you know, I always when I there's a way of
• 11:15
  sharing feedback with others, I think that is easier for them to
• 11:18
  receive. We call it sharing unarguably.
• 11:21
  But before I share any feedback, I always want to affirm the
• 11:24
  relationship. Like, hey, Jim, I so value you
• 11:27
  here. You're doing great.
• 11:28
  Like I just love how you capture everything.
• 11:30
  To me, I loved how he was willing to just like jump over
• 11:32
  anything to get the shot. I was like, dude, that's
• 11:34
  awesome. Yeah.
• 11:35
  So I just want to like, Jim, you are going so out of your way to
• 11:37
  get the shot. I so appreciate that.
• 11:39
  And I'm having the thought that this would be easier if you just
• 11:44
  told me to move. Yeah, you know, and I don't need
• 11:47
  to be right about my opinions. I just, the thought I'm having
• 11:49
  is this whole thing will be a lot easier if you just told me
• 11:52
  to. And you set that up in a way,
• 11:54
  like generally when people feel cared for and like, hey, I have
• 11:59
  feedback for you because I care about you, then it's way easier
• 12:03
  to receive it. So I always want to preface that
• 12:05
  up front. I, we call affirming the
• 12:07
  relationship before you dive into any constructive feedback.
• 12:10
  It makes it easier to receive. It seems like intention is just
• 12:13
  a big piece of this, like when there's and and the fact that
• 12:16
  people know that you care about them and that type of stuff.
• 12:19
  I want to get to the impeccable agreement.
• 12:22
  I think you said it was. But.
• 12:24
  Before that, how important do you think it is for a leader to
• 12:27
  understand their employees and team on a more personal life
• 12:32
  level? Not that they need to be in
• 12:33
  their in their business with their weeds because people want
• 12:35
  to share different things and you don't have to pull it out of
• 12:37
  someone. But how important do you think
• 12:38
  it is for a leader to really understand how this role at the
• 12:41
  company gets them to where they want to go in their life?
• 12:47
  Certainly nice. You know, not, not every CEO can
• 12:50
  talk to hundreds of people that I mean actually, well direct
• 12:54
  they can if they choose. Yeah, they could.
• 12:56
  That is. Even direct reports though, you
• 12:58
  know. Yeah, You know, I think most
• 13:02
  people like to feel value. They like to feel seen in the
• 13:05
  world, certainly like direct reports, like a leadership team.
• 13:10
  If one of the things that I believe is really critical for
• 13:13
  teams to thrive is having compassion for one another at
• 13:16
  some level at least understanding.
• 13:18
  I want to know what you love about your job.
• 13:20
  I want to know what you hate about your job.
• 13:22
  I want to know what your boundaries are your I want to
• 13:24
  really know you. Because once we understand each
• 13:27
  other's similarities and differences, well, now we can
• 13:30
  move towards whatever shared goal with our eyes open.
• 13:35
  How do we take care of each other and achieve what we want
• 13:38
  to achieve? We don't know each other and if
• 13:41
  we don't have some mutual respect for one another, it's
• 13:44
  going to be really hard to walk in step.
• 13:46
  So, you know, whenever I start working with the team, a big
• 13:49
  part of what we do is dive deep into really getting to know one
• 13:53
  another in ways that you probably don't know each other.
• 13:56
  Then from there the question can become given your similarities
• 13:59
  and differences, who do you want to be as a team?
• 14:02
  Because there's no right way to be a team.
• 14:04
  There's no one answer but you're 2 unique snowflakes.
• 14:08
  Like I've never used this expression.
• 14:09
  Just coming out of nowhere. What's the snowball you want to
• 14:11
  be like? I love it.
• 14:13
  Yeah. Like, who do you want to be?
• 14:15
  Yeah. And you can't really answer that
• 14:16
  until you deeply know the other person, right?
• 14:18
  So that's so true, yeah. So impeccable agreements.
• 14:22
  Well, tell us about that. Yeah, impeccable agreements is a
• 14:28
  few things. One, it's getting incredibly
• 14:30
  clear about who's going to do what and by when.
• 14:35
  Now actually, it might be easier to talk about impeccable
• 14:37
  agreements by talking about the sloppy agreements.
• 14:40
  Let's do that that typically. What not to do?
• 14:42
  What not to do. So, you know, lots of times
• 14:44
  people don't share specifically who's going to do what and by
• 14:47
  when. It's like, hey, can you get me
• 14:49
  that thing by whenever blah, blah, blah is and if people
• 14:52
  don't have the specificity around dates and around specific
• 14:54
  expectations, you that you're just introducing room for error
• 14:58
  and that error, well, by people, that's kind of the obvious
• 15:01
  piece. There's another type of sloppy
• 15:03
  agreement. It's real common for people to
• 15:07
  say, I'll try, I'll try my best. I never want to leave a
• 15:12
  conversation when someone tells me that they're going to try
• 15:14
  their best because why do you think someone would say I'll try
• 15:17
  my best? They're leaving room for if they
• 15:20
  make a mistake or don't complete it.
• 15:21
  It's like, hey, I tried my best. You're already kind of giving
• 15:24
  yourself an out. Right, because if you were in,
• 15:26
  if you were a yes, you'd say yes.
• 15:29
  Done. I'm going to get this done.
• 15:30
  Yeah. So I would way rather have
• 15:32
  someone tell me no rather than I'll try my best.
• 15:35
  So I encourage leaders, if anytime someone says I'll try
• 15:39
  their best, don't leave the conversation.
• 15:42
  It's an invitation to learn. Great.
• 15:44
  Tell me what the resistance is. What are you worried about?
• 15:48
  That would be really helpful for me to know.
• 15:50
  We can negotiate a different type of agreement that you feel
• 15:53
  really comfortable with. Or I'll pull someone else in, or
• 15:57
  I'll or, or, or. But if I'm a leader and I need
• 16:01
  something done, I want someone on the other, on the other end,
• 16:04
  or two people or three people that feel really good about
• 16:08
  getting it done and they're confident that they can do it.
• 16:10
  Yeah. So that's the second type of
• 16:13
  sloppy agreement that shows up all the time.
• 16:14
  And the big one that we talk a lot about is when people just
• 16:17
  simply say yes when they don't mean yes.
• 16:20
  And again, that is just a survival strategy.
• 16:23
  If I were to say no to my boss, that would mean I'm not a team
• 16:28
  player. That would mean I may be
• 16:30
  sacrificing my chances for promotion or for a raise, or I
• 16:35
  don't know if my seat in this company will be secure like it.
• 16:39
  And again, we're not consciously thinking about all of these
• 16:41
  things, but we naturally behave in a way to reduce any friction
• 16:46
  or conflict. It's just what we do now.
• 16:49
  The irony is, when we say yes, but we don't mean yes, nothing
• 16:55
  good happens either. The work comes back shitty and
• 16:59
  now I've actually created a reason for my boss not to like
• 17:02
  me or to be upset with me in some way or I'll drop a ball
• 17:07
  somewhere else and so now I've created another conflict or I'll
• 17:12
  get it all done and now I'm exhausted and useless to the
• 17:15
  company. I need a mental health day or
• 17:17
  whatever it is. Nothing good comes from it.
• 17:19
  So I always encourage people to when someone asks you to do
• 17:22
  something, everyone stop for a minute and check in.
• 17:25
  Do I have an energetic yes to this?
• 17:27
  Am I in? And if not, great, let's just
• 17:31
  talk about what you like. Maybe I'm the wrong person for
• 17:34
  the job. Maybe.
• 17:35
  Or maybe your boss or whoever can help you reprioritize
• 17:39
  everything else that's already on your plate.
• 17:40
  Like, is this thing you're asking me to do more important
• 17:42
  than these three other things you already asked me to do?
• 17:44
  But you want to get into conversation until everyone
• 17:47
  feels good about this, and then you move forward.
• 17:49
  And it's sloppy if you don't. And nothing good happens when
• 17:52
  you're moving forward with sloppy agreements.
• 17:54
  So you make impeccable agreements, you get really
• 17:58
  specific who's going to do what and by when.
• 18:01
  You don't stop negotiating until you're a yes.
• 18:05
  Now you might determine I am a no for this, but I care about
• 18:08
  you and I'm a team player and I'm going to help you find
• 18:11
  someone. I'm going to be part of the
• 18:12
  solution. If that would be helpful.
• 18:14
  Like I know Jimmy down the hall, just something fell off his
• 18:17
  plate and I think this would be a great opportunity for him to
• 18:18
  learn a new skill. Maybe he's interested in this.
• 18:21
  Like you can still be part of the collective solution.
• 18:25
  So everyone's feeling really good about the decisions they
• 18:28
  make on a team. Now there's two of There's two
• 18:31
  of the pieces of this. OK, please.
• 18:32
  Yeah. Yeah, so you make you starve
• 18:34
  with an impeccable agreement and then your kid gets COVID or
• 18:39
  something. I blew a tire like every once in
• 18:41
  a while. Shit happens.
• 18:42
  Now, how you deal with that also is, I think, what makes these
• 18:45
  agreements impeccable. So you can renegotiate an
• 18:48
  agreement if you find out. Wow.
• 18:50
  I just agreed to do something by noon on Thursday.
• 18:53
  I am no longer going to be able to do that given this completely
• 18:55
  unexpected occurrence. So I'm going to get back with
• 18:57
  the other person, say, hey, I'd like to renegotiate that with
• 18:59
  you this Friday at 10 AM Acceptable, rather than Thursday
• 19:04
  at noon back into a negotiation. The answer might be, yeah,
• 19:08
  that's perfect. The answer might be actually,
• 19:10
  thank you for telling me. No, I actually need it done
• 19:12
  Thursday at noon. I'm going to go get Jimmy down
• 19:14
  the hall to do it. And then every once in a while,
• 19:17
  you break an agreement. This is the third way, the third
• 19:19
  piece of impeccable agreements, and you just want to clean up
• 19:22
  your mess. Every once in a while we poop
• 19:26
  the bed and you got to clean it up like, hey, Alex, I know I
• 19:31
  agreed to do this thing with you and I fell short.
• 19:34
  I didn't do it. And I just want to see if I
• 19:35
  broke trust. I want to see if there's an
• 19:37
  impact I created, because if there is, I want to know about
• 19:39
  it and see if I can clean it up in some way.
• 19:43
  Wow, so there's a. That's advanced level
• 19:44
  conversation right there, yeah. It is, but it doesn't need to
• 19:47
  be. I know.
• 19:48
  I know what I'm saying. That's that's, yeah.
• 19:50
  But like, if you don't hear a lot of this, yeah, yeah, if
• 19:52
  people start doing this stuff, it just can.
• 19:54
  No, it's radically shift the culture.
• 19:55
  In a lot of ways, it's common sense, right?
• 19:57
  It's kind of just, hey, just play it out.
• 19:59
  Like, what's what's the worst that could happen here?
• 20:00
  Why wouldn't you say that? Why?
• 20:02
  But that's the stuff that I feel like we need the most help with.
• 20:04
  When you boil it down to teams and people working together,
• 20:07
  yeah, it's not as easy. It's it may be simple, but it's
• 20:09
  not always easy. Yeah.
• 20:10
  I think that's fair. Yeah.
• 20:12
  So if you're going into a, let's say a CEO, a founder has a
• 20:16
  review with an employee, it's an important employee to them.
• 20:19
  They're doing well and they're going to sit down.
• 20:21
  Just, you know, I just want to get some time with this person.
• 20:23
  Pete, check. Talk about their the vision of
• 20:25
  where we're going, how they play a role in that, their goals.
• 20:28
  What might you arm that CEO with going into that meeting or
• 20:32
  founder going into that meeting? How what advice might you say?
• 20:35
  What might be some things that you'd say?
• 20:37
  I definitely would hit on this. I would definitely get curious
• 20:39
  about this. Is there a structure that you
• 20:41
  use? I'm curious.
• 20:43
  I think a lot of probably founders and CEOs are not having
• 20:45
  enough touch points or maybe it's like every quarter or
• 20:48
  every, you know, twice a year. But I think even when they're
• 20:51
  having the touch points, I think you'd probably see this too,
• 20:53
  where it's just kind of like service law.
• 20:55
  How's it going? Good, good.
• 20:56
  How are you doing? So, yeah, what do you think of
• 20:57
  that? You know, it's just there's not
• 20:59
  like, what are we getting out of this?
• 21:00
  Like what are we really trying to accomplish during our time
• 21:03
  together? Well, I think that's the
• 21:05
  question I would ask the CEO. Why are you meeting with this
• 21:08
  person? Like, what's your intention?
• 21:10
  Are you doing it just to feel connected?
• 21:11
  Are you wanting to get feedback? Are you wanting to offer
• 21:14
  feedback? What if they're like they're
• 21:15
  doing a good job? I'm I want to make sure they're
• 21:17
  happy, successful, and I want to retain them.
• 21:22
  Yeah, then I'd say, well then tell them that.
• 21:26
  You would just tell them that. Hey.
• 21:28
  Hey, Jimmy, I haven't talked with you in a while.
• 21:30
  I think you're doing really great.
• 21:32
  I value our relationship. I value your place here in the
• 21:35
  company. I just wanted to check in with
• 21:37
  you and share all that and see if I could help in some way.
• 21:39
  Would you tell them that, hey, I'd love to have you stay here?
• 21:41
  Like my goal is to keep you here and make you happy.
• 21:43
  Yeah. Who doesn't want to hear that as
• 21:44
  an employee? Yeah.
• 21:45
  Like I saw value here. How's it going?
• 21:48
  What feedback do you have for me?
• 21:50
  What? You know, if you could change
• 21:51
  something in the organization, what would you change?
• 21:54
  You could change me in some way. What would be different?
• 21:56
  And how do you make sure you get real answers back?
• 21:58
  Because I've had some of those conversations and, you know,
• 22:01
  sometimes it's just kind of like they just, you know, this the
• 22:05
  dine, the boss, the the whole dynamic of them.
• 22:07
  I don't want to say anything too crazy here.
• 22:10
  I don't want him to think, you know, it's like trying to create
• 22:11
  that safe environment where they feel comfortable with it.
• 22:13
  But as much as you try, it's still hard, you know what I
• 22:15
  mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 22:16
  And so like, I want you to be really honest with me here, you
• 22:18
  know, like I need it. Yeah, well, you're never going
• 22:21
  to be able to control your employees, but how do you, the
• 22:24
  question is how do you set up the conditions and how do you
• 22:26
  how do you model the behavior you're wanting from them?
• 22:30
  I always ask leaders who's the leader you need to be to invite
• 22:33
  them to show up the way you want them to be.
• 22:36
  So if you're asking or wanting them to be vulnerable, well, are
• 22:38
  you willing to go first as the CEO and share some vulnerability
• 22:42
  with that person? Are you willing to offer some
• 22:44
  feedback? Are you like that you're setting
• 22:48
  the playing field and you got to go first because if you're not,
• 22:51
  there's no way. It's well, it's rare that
• 22:53
  employees are going to come in and be completely and honest
• 22:57
  about everything, right? Would you have the employee
• 23:01
  prepare anything for that meeting potentially?
• 23:03
  Is there anything you have would have them think about coming
• 23:05
  into it or you know, think about things they appreciate or want
• 23:09
  to improve or strengths, weaknesses, anything like that?
• 23:11
  Yeah, I think people really appreciate having some time to
• 23:13
  think about anything consequential, especially with
• 23:16
  someone that they may be a little bit nervous to meet with,
• 23:18
  like their boss potentially. You know, like I like to do that
• 23:23
  anytime I'm meeting with. Even if I have someone that's
• 23:26
  even curious about coaching, the first question I'll ask over
• 23:28
  e-mail prior to meeting with that person is if six months of
• 23:31
  coaching were to be especially valuable to you, a great use of
• 23:35
  your time, money and resources, what would be different in six
• 23:37
  months? They go off and they think about
• 23:40
  it and then they bring that in. We have a conversation.
• 23:42
  About we asked on our onboarding service too, Yeah, so it looks
• 23:45
  different in three 6,000,000. Especially if it's a question
• 23:48
  you're wanting to know, something that may require some
• 23:50
  deep thought. Sure, give them some time to
• 23:52
  ponder it. You're gonna get a better
• 23:53
  answer. Yeah, I think I know your answer
• 23:55
  to this question, but how do you know if you're a good leader, if
• 23:58
  you're being a good leader? I didn't know if you're being a
• 24:04
  good leader. You know, it's like, I don't
• 24:06
  know you because you have your your kind of internal thoughts.
• 24:08
  I'm like, yeah, I think I'm doing good here and here.
• 24:10
  But then there's also the reality of like, maybe you're
• 24:13
  accurate mostly. Maybe you're way off.
• 24:15
  So it's kind of you kind of gauge as a leader if you're
• 24:17
  doing a good job. Well, first of all, I will say
• 24:20
  it depends on how you're defining what a leader is.
• 24:24
  I know plenty of leaders that run their companies.
• 24:28
  They're redlining their companies.
• 24:30
  There's high attrition. People are cranking up, but
• 24:32
  they're hitting their numbers. Like some people may say, yeah,
• 24:37
  this person's being a good leader.
• 24:38
  People aren't happy there. But you're getting, you're
• 24:41
  getting the, the shareholders are happy.
• 24:44
  Well, I'm more talking about just someone in the in a role
• 24:47
  where they have direct reports, right, where people look up to
• 24:50
  them to for direction, for leadership, for, you know.
• 24:54
  Yeah, well, I think it's always, there's two things that come to
• 24:57
  mind. One, I would want that leader to
• 24:59
  think about what does it mean to be a good leader?
• 25:01
  Like how would you define that? And then second, I would go and
• 25:04
  I would ask the employees. Yeah, there's all kinds of
• 25:06
  different surveys and 360 tools and stuff like get candid
• 25:10
  feedback to see if you're achieving what you want to
• 25:14
  achieve as a leader and if you have any, like don't sit in your
• 25:19
  stories or beliefs to go get the actual answer.
• 25:22
  So I always encourage my leaders to go do that, get the data and
• 25:26
  there's plenty of ways to do that.
• 25:28
  Different tools out there that I like using that people actually
• 25:32
  feel comfortable sharing because they know that whatever they
• 25:34
  share won't get back to them. The leader will never know that
• 25:37
  it's that person that shared it. So they feel comfortable sharing
• 25:40
  whatever there is to share. I love doing that because, and
• 25:43
  leaders are often, we all have blind spots.
• 25:46
  I've never met anyone that sees themselves all that accurately
• 25:51
  with how everyone else is seeing them.
• 25:54
  So I some more than others, but you know.
• 25:57
  I saw you speak live in Chicago. I was at an event.
• 26:01
  I was brought there by Kevin, mutual friend, connection of
• 26:04
  ours. And one of the things that
• 26:06
  really stuck out to me where this goes into cross crossing
• 26:10
  the line or going beneath the line, the three things our
• 26:13
  brains are constantly scanning for, you remember, want to talk
• 26:17
  about obviously, because you teach this stuff.
• 26:18
  What are those three things? Because I think this really
• 26:21
  helped me put some things in perspective of like, oh, if I'm
• 26:25
  in this moment or kind of going below the line and maybe we'll
• 26:27
  describe what that is kind of associated with.
• 26:30
  OK, I got it. I sort of understand to your
• 26:33
  point, it's being conscious of it first and then it's like
• 26:36
  doing something about it. Yeah.
• 26:38
  So I mentioned earlier that, you know, first and foremost, we are
• 26:41
  animals trying to stay alive. And there's a part of our brain
• 26:44
  dedicated to doing that. And we are always, there's
• 26:48
  different models than what I like and they're very similar.
• 26:51
  But the the three words that you're referring to, we are
• 26:54
  constantly scanning to ensure we have security approval and
• 27:00
  control. And anytime our mind,
• 27:03
  consciously or unconsciously, is believing that one, two or three
• 27:07
  of those things is threatened, we would go.
• 27:09
  What you're referring to is below the line, and we react in
• 27:12
  a survival strategy that usually takes us further from what we're
• 27:16
  wanting to create in our lives. Which could be what?
• 27:18
  So you know, when we're numbing out, checking out, being the
• 27:24
  victim, blaming others, gossiping, any of the toxic
• 27:27
  behaviors you've seen, organizations, it's almost
• 27:30
  always a reaction to just simply being scared, right?
• 27:34
  It's our way of feeling better in the world or in that
• 27:38
  particular circumstance. Now, I can go into more detail
• 27:40
  if you want, about what those three things are.
• 27:42
  It's basically, do I have the food and shelter and resources I
• 27:45
  need to stay alive and keep my family alive?
• 27:47
  Security approval is do I feel connected with the group you
• 27:52
  30,000 years ago, if you were kicked out of your colony or
• 27:55
  your tribe, you died because human beings can't hunt and
• 27:58
  gather and do everything you need to do.
• 28:00
  So anytime someone says something or we say something
• 28:02
  and people don't like it, don't if we believe they don't think
• 28:05
  we're smart enough or funny enough or good enough leader,
• 28:08
  we're separated from them. We get anxious, we go below the
• 28:11
  line. And then the last one is
• 28:13
  control, where we like certainty, we don't like
• 28:16
  uncertainty, we don't like curve balls.
• 28:20
  Any time we sense that we don't have a say as to what's going on
• 28:22
  around us, we go below the line, we get nervous and we react.
• 28:27
  It's like when we did the exercise, we had to come up with
• 28:29
  a specific example of something that happened to us and then we
• 28:33
  kind of determined why we went below the line.
• 28:36
  And if you just think about it and everyone listening here,
• 28:38
  there's times you get maybe a little upset, you get defensive,
• 28:41
  you react in a way you're like, I didn't, that doesn't that
• 28:43
  wasn't the best version of me accepting it.
• 28:46
  That's OK, I'm human. I make say it happens.
• 28:48
  I I did it because of this, recognizing why it's happening.
• 28:51
  But I think really understanding, OK, I think that
• 28:53
  happened because that threatened my identity in that moment.
• 28:57
  And that was why I probably did that.
• 28:59
  OK, let me be conscious of this for next time potentially,
• 29:02
  right? It's really interesting stuff.
• 29:04
  You think about it, the whole piece is, and I just everyone
• 29:07
  know there's, I'm not going to go into it.
• 29:09
  There's a big model around this, but one of the parts of the
• 29:11
  model is acceptance. Like I love asking people and
• 29:16
  it's such a weird question often, but like, can you just
• 29:19
  accept yourself for being scared and your body and brain doing
• 29:22
  exactly what they're designed to do, gossiping and blaming.
• 29:27
  That's all what we're designed to do that.
• 29:30
  And you're not doing it because you're a bad leader or a bad
• 29:32
  person. You're doing it because you're a
• 29:33
  human being that's scared. And so now that you can see that
• 29:37
  pattern, can you just offer yourself a breath of acceptance
• 29:42
  rather than beating yourself up for it?
• 29:46
  And then what would you be willing to do differently next?
• 29:50
  Do you find that a lot of leaders and founders beat
• 29:52
  themselves up a lot? We all beat ourselves up.
• 29:54
  Yeah, for sure. Because there's times I think
• 29:57
  I've actually gotten better on it.
• 29:58
  And I'm going to talk to you about this topic next.
• 30:00
  That kind of leads into this. But there are certain times
• 30:03
  where you're going to make a mistake or do something and it
• 30:05
  kind of lives with you a little bit longer and you're like, you
• 30:09
  almost can't stop thinking about it.
• 30:10
  Every so often you're like, God, I messed that I shouldn't have
• 30:12
  done like a mess that up, you know, mistake you made or
• 30:15
  whatever it is, professional, personal, whatever.
• 30:18
  And then there's other times where you're like, hey, I made a
• 30:20
  mistake, I'm human. I learned, I move on.
• 30:23
  And it seems easier to kind of flesh out, do you, what do you
• 30:25
  say to people that kind of tend to live more in the beating
• 30:28
  themselves up, staying in that zone, affecting maybe they're
• 30:32
  even self worth because it's so every little thing just keeps
• 30:36
  adding up. Yeah, I mean, you know, some
• 30:40
  it's it depending on what you've done or what you believe you've
• 30:43
  done, you know, you might be in a shame spiral or guilty about
• 30:47
  something or may not be that consequential.
• 30:49
  If you're stuck in something that you're hiding from and
• 30:52
  feeling shame around, I would ask that person if they're
• 30:56
  willing to shine a light on it. Shame can't live in the light.
• 31:02
  And So what that is, is would you be willing to share with
• 31:04
  whoever you need to share about what you did and how you feel
• 31:07
  about it and clean it up with some self compassion?
• 31:11
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 31:15
  Some people naturally have more shame than others.
• 31:17
  Again, sometimes it's event specific.
• 31:21
  I think last time we talked about even fear sometimes likes
• 31:24
  to live in the shadows. So when you open that window up
• 31:26
  and you expose it and it's light.
• 31:28
  And one of the examples I gave was I really wanted to speak in
• 31:32
  meetings and speak up more and in front of crowds.
• 31:35
  And now I've done stages and since that this is years ago,
• 31:38
  but I remember one day I was like, I would maybe even try it
• 31:40
  and my face would get red. I'd get nerve.
• 31:41
  And then people look at you and it gets even more red.
• 31:43
  And it's like, Oh man. And then one day I was just
• 31:45
  like, someone asked me to come speak and I was like, Oh, I was
• 31:47
  like, I'll do it. And I was just joking.
• 31:48
  They're like, no, come on up. I was like, no, I was just
• 31:50
  kidding. He's like, no, come on up.
• 31:52
  This is Drew, if you're listening to this right now, a
• 31:54
  good leader. And he said, just just come on
• 31:57
  up, Just do it. And I said, all right.
• 31:58
  And I came up and I go, my face is probably going to turn red,
• 32:00
  but I'm going to do this anyways.
• 32:01
  And as soon as I and as soon as I said that, it didn't turn red
• 32:05
  because I put it out there. I didn't hide it.
• 32:07
  And like, Oh my gosh, can they see?
• 32:09
  Can they see? Oh, what if this comes?
• 32:10
  I was like, hey, here's my secret, here's my fear right
• 32:13
  now, my insecurity. And it's sure enough.
• 32:16
  It just, it didn't happen. And so it's just interesting how
• 32:19
  when you flush those things out and you put it in the light to
• 32:21
  your point, yeah, man, that really helps.
• 32:24
  Yeah, I mean, like I do this for a living and I get nervous
• 32:28
  before I do this all the time and it's the first thing I want
• 32:32
  to do is deal with it, not hide from it.
• 32:35
  Right, exactly I. Love the strategy of what you
• 32:37
  did. Like, you know, I've actually,
• 32:39
  there was, I spoke at Northwestern, I don't know, 3-4
• 32:43
  years ago and I was just, I don't know what was going on,
• 32:46
  but I was deeply anxious, like almost panicky before sitting in
• 32:49
  my car just like totally below the line, probably deeply.
• 32:55
  I don't know if it was my probably approval was the thing.
• 32:57
  Like, Oh my gosh, it was, I don't remember what was going on
• 33:00
  in my life, but it was like AI was really stressed and I, and
• 33:03
  the first thing I did, I went up.
• 33:05
  There was something along the lines of if you were to really
• 33:09
  know me right now, hey everyone, I'm Clay.
• 33:10
  If you were to really know me right now, I'm scared shitless
• 33:13
  to be up here. Like I said, something along the
• 33:15
  lines like how many of you can and then I used it.
• 33:18
  That's what's really fun about. It but you.
• 33:20
  Know everyone can relate. Totally like.
• 33:22
  He doesn't get a little. In front of people.
• 33:24
  Everyone's definitely afraid of that.
• 33:25
  Yeah. So I think what I did, I was
• 33:28
  kind of patting myself on the back for this afterwards, but I
• 33:30
  just use that as a topic of conversation.
• 33:33
  Like, you know, you're all aspiring business leaders, like
• 33:36
  you all get nervous when you're presenting a business, blah,
• 33:39
  blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah.
• 33:40
  How do you deal with that? Oh my gosh, this is such a
• 33:43
  competitive environment. They're one of the top business
• 33:45
  schools right now. Like, what do you, you know, how
• 33:47
  are you managing your stress? And so it's a gift for everyone
• 33:50
  when we are willing to share our own humanity.
• 33:52
  It's been my experience. Totally.
• 33:55
  Yeah. Well, I think it helps to, you
• 33:56
  know, when you're listening as an entrepreneur, when you're
• 33:58
  listening to more seasoned entrepreneurs and they talk
• 34:01
  about their mistakes and failures and what they've been
• 34:03
  through and their insecurities. Sometimes it's really nice to
• 34:05
  hear because it's like, wow, you're, it's, you seem to be
• 34:08
  this big success and maybe they even are.
• 34:11
  But it's like, it's nice to know that like you went through shit
• 34:14
  too, and you struggled and you almost lost this and you had
• 34:16
  fails and, or failures and setbacks.
• 34:19
  And there's something kind of like, wow, I can relate to this
• 34:22
  person. I kind of want to open up now.
• 34:24
  Right. I think I'm always at my best
• 34:27
  and I think I draw people in the more human I am with them.
• 34:31
  Right. Is there a line to be crossed
• 34:33
  though where you're like doing that too much to where you're
• 34:35
  not? You don't seem as credible at a
• 34:37
  certain point where you're just constantly like, people are
• 34:39
  like, all right dude, get your shit together.
• 34:41
  You know, it's like, well, here's the deal.
• 34:42
  Maybe maybe is my answer. There may be someone if I was to
• 34:45
  reveal some fear or something, they'd be like me.
• 34:47
  I don't trust that guy. Like, right, OK, great, we're
• 34:50
  not a fit then, right? But I'm not going to bullshit
• 34:53
  you or me about who I am in the. World, right?
• 34:55
  Yes. And, and I people just, well,
• 34:59
  you don't have to get comfortable with that, but I've
• 35:00
  gotten comfortable with that, that all I can do is tell the
• 35:04
  truth. If I tell the truth, life is
• 35:07
  good. And and that draws certain
• 35:10
  people towards me and maybe not others me.
• 35:12
  And Jim, we're talking about that too, just in relationships.
• 35:14
  And it's like you're going to have some people in your life
• 35:16
  that don't accept you for who you are or don't appreciate the
• 35:19
  things that make you kind of unique and weird or whatever it
• 35:22
  is. We all have those things and
• 35:24
  it's like you have to, but then you'll have people that really
• 35:27
  appreciate that and say, well, Alex, I like that, Jim, I like
• 35:30
  that that you're that way. That's really cool.
• 35:32
  And it's like part of it's like finding your tribe.
• 35:34
  And same in business too. It's like finding the right
• 35:35
  clients that you're like, boom. Yeah.
• 35:38
  This is it. I mean, in my life, my friends
• 35:40
  and the people I work, even my clients, like I want to hang out
• 35:42
  with people that are willing to be willing to share openly,
• 35:46
  vulnerably. And we, you know, we can have
• 35:48
  some fun with it too. We can joke with ourselves.
• 35:52
  Oh my gosh, we're just silly human beings.
• 35:53
  All, you know, we're just trying to find our way.
• 35:55
  And but I, I spent the reason I became a coach is because I was
• 36:00
  an anxious wreck the first half of my life because I wasn't
• 36:04
  doing that. I was putting on a huge show.
• 36:06
  Interesting. I was and I learned that that is
• 36:11
  not a way to live for me. And so.
• 36:15
  Now, what was causing you to put on a show like if you as you
• 36:17
  look back like you're like, I see why I was doing that now.
• 36:20
  Yeah, well, I learned at a very young age that to feel or to
• 36:24
  receive attention and love, I had to show up as the boy that
• 36:29
  everyone wanted me to be. We all have some version of that
• 36:32
  story. And I learned and as a young,
• 36:36
  literally a young brain learns that to to be safe and happy in
• 36:41
  the world, the way to do that is to be the person that they want
• 36:44
  me to be. And so then what happens is we
• 36:47
  grow as, until you become young adults and we're using that
• 36:50
  strategy. For me, I had terrible, like,
• 36:53
  romantic relationships because I was trying deeply to be the
• 36:57
  perfect boyfriend and I was trying to be the perfect
• 37:01
  employee and I was trying to be the perfect film.
• 37:05
  Yeah. Fill in the blank, any
• 37:07
  relationship until I was having panic attacks and just an
• 37:10
  absolute disaster. And I had to.
• 37:14
  I had a choice. Is this, are these the outcomes?
• 37:17
  Is this the life I'm wanting to live?
• 37:19
  And am I willing with some self acceptance, to choose something
• 37:22
  different now? It took some work, and that's
• 37:27
  the work I love inviting others into.
• 37:30
  It's like we don't have to be stuck in those old patterns.
• 37:33
  Yeah, yeah, we really don't have to, and it's not easy.
• 37:37
  But is it worth stepping into the uncomfortableness and trying
• 37:43
  something else on? For me the answer has been yes.
• 37:46
  It's sad when you see people we all have like friends and family
• 37:50
  where, you know, you can kind of see the patterns preventing them
• 37:54
  from being a better version of themselves, but they're not
• 37:58
  willing to like really do that work.
• 38:00
  And they almost openly admit it, like, I'm not going to talk to
• 38:02
  someone. I'm like, this is how I am.
• 38:04
  And it's like, damn, that sucks When it's your parent or when
• 38:06
  it's your close friend, you're like, damn, man, that sucks.
• 38:09
  But what do you do? You just, it's like if you're
• 38:11
  not willing to step forward and and give that a shot, I don't
• 38:13
  know what I can do. Well, couple answers 1 You love
• 38:18
  them exactly the way they are. They're on whatever point in
• 38:22
  their journey that they're on. And if it's really bothering
• 38:26
  you, I would begin to get curious about what's going on
• 38:30
  over there with that person that I'm unwilling to be with over
• 38:33
  here within myself. So.
• 38:38
  But what if it's affecting other family members or it's not about
• 38:41
  you, it's about that person's not changing and therefore
• 38:43
  they're making other people around them unhappy, upset, that
• 38:46
  kind of stuff. Well.
• 38:47
  I always think there's opportunity to speak unarguably
• 38:50
  and offer feedback. Yeah, not being righteous about
• 38:54
  your feedback, but, you know, hey, sister, brother, whatever
• 38:57
  it is, I'm having the thought that when you show up this way,
• 39:01
  our family is impacted. I, you know, I don't need to be
• 39:05
  righteous about it. I don't need to prove that I'm
• 39:07
  right. Are you wrong about this?
• 39:10
  But the impact that I'm having is you can share that you can
• 39:14
  also share. And I know my part in this is
• 39:18
  because you are Co creating whatever the conflict is always.
• 39:22
  It's not just one person. If I'm upset about her doing
• 39:26
  whatever she's doing, how am I creating upset over here?
• 39:30
  We can get into a lot of what that actually means.
• 39:33
  But I own all that. Am I willing to share with
• 39:36
  compassion and with love with that other person what my
• 39:39
  experience is like being with them and then let go of needing
• 39:43
  to control any outcome because you can't?
• 39:45
  Yeah, and often times some of those, sometimes those folks
• 39:47
  that are really closed off will just like, I don't want to hear
• 39:49
  your shit, you know? And it's like, and they're not.
• 39:52
  That's the end. Yeah.
• 39:53
  So how do I need to be in the world understanding that she's
• 39:56
  going to be exactly who she is? Yeah, that's a good way to look
• 40:00
  at it. It's like you could just control
• 40:01
  yourself. Yeah, at the end of the day, you
• 40:03
  can share, you can be open and honest, but the end of the day,
• 40:05
  it's like, OK, knowing that now, what am I going to do with that?
• 40:09
  Yeah. And then you can, if you're
• 40:10
  really playing ball, you can begin to, you can begin to
• 40:13
  explore the question or the idea that, well, how did that person
• 40:16
  show up in my life to teach me exactly the most important thing
• 40:19
  I need to learn about myself? Because if I'm having a strong
• 40:23
  reaction to her, where is that reaction coming from?
• 40:28
  What's going on here with that reaction?
• 40:30
  Am I, am I, am I really seeking her love?
• 40:34
  And what would I be willing to offer myself that love that I'm
• 40:36
  wanting from her? Like there's always a
• 40:38
  connection. How am I creating that upset
• 40:40
  over here? Clay, let me ask you this,
• 40:43
  though. Did you ever think about this?
• 40:44
  Like, had you not had the upbringing that you had?
• 40:46
  And I had not had the upbringing I've had.
• 40:49
  And we've all had, right? We've all had experiences and
• 40:51
  things, childhood. We've just all had stuff.
• 40:54
  Yeah. You wouldn't be doing this
• 40:56
  today. So sometimes I think about it
• 40:58
  and it's like, yeah, if I would have gotten more of a
• 41:00
  relationship from XY and Z person, family friend, whatever
• 41:03
  it is, I'm like, man, that was like a big gap for me.
• 41:06
  But it also like kind of inspired me to like want to be a
• 41:09
  better person or change or fill that guy or motivate me to do
• 41:12
  stuff. So it's like, do you ever think
• 41:14
  about that honestly, like. For sure.
• 41:16
  Is it if you go go back in time, would you really change it that
• 41:19
  much? Maybe you, I don't know.
• 41:22
  That's a good quote. Would I change it?
• 41:23
  You know, no, I wouldn't because I would either.
• 41:29
  I love my life. It was difficult I and it led me
• 41:38
  exactly to where I am now. And, you know, I chose to be a
• 41:41
  coach and, you know, coaches and therapists and other types of
• 41:43
  people or really anyone. It's like we teach others what
• 41:46
  we need to learn ourselves. Like this work has helped me
• 41:52
  radically shift my my life. I love it and I am so rewarded
• 41:56
  when I can help others benefit from these same tools and
• 42:00
  resources that I have. If it did, if I didn't wasn't so
• 42:04
  deeply affected by them, I don't know if I'd give a shit enough
• 42:06
  to like dedicate my life to helping others do it right.
• 42:09
  So, you know, we're all, we're always connected to our past,
• 42:13
  one way to the other. For sure.
• 42:14
  And it's hard also hard to tell that wouldn't have been an
• 42:16
  issue. Would you have gone on to do
• 42:18
  something else that would have been equally as impactful but
• 42:20
  just in a different area too? So there's.
• 42:21
  Always that you know, something I have been thinking about.
• 42:23
  So you know I'm a full time coach.
• 42:24
  Before I was a coach, I was an innovation consultant, helping
• 42:28
  Fortune 500 companies come up with like I was working on a
• 42:32
  team, helping Samsung come up with the future of headphones,
• 42:36
  like really cool stuff. I made myself miserable on that
• 42:39
  job because I was asleep at the wheel, desperately trying to
• 42:44
  please everybody. But I was really good at
• 42:46
  innovation. And so I still wonder sometimes
• 42:48
  like gosh, I wonder how that experience would be now with the
• 42:52
  insight and growth that I've had like that's.
• 42:55
  Totally different, yeah. The fun thing to consider, but
• 42:58
  I, I mean, I love coaching and yeah, and just trying to blend
• 43:01
  innovation in coaching and that's kind of a cool yeah.
• 43:04
  Intersection. Totally.
• 43:05
  You talk a lot about self love too.
• 43:08
  What is self love and how do you begin to love yourself or
• 43:12
  continue to love yourself? How much time you got?
• 43:18
  Let's do the we got a little bit of time.
• 43:20
  We're not, we're not pressed for time.
• 43:21
  But I think this is a big, like a lot of people are talking more
• 43:23
  and more about this, but it's also like one of those buzzwords
• 43:26
  of like self love. You gotta love yourself.
• 43:28
  But it's like, but how? Like what's the, what am I?
• 43:31
  Am I looking in the mirror and going, I love you Alex.
• 43:33
  I love you, Alex. I don't think so, right?
• 43:36
  Yeah, there's probably, I probably have lots of answers,
• 43:40
  but I was literally with a client this morning.
• 43:42
  Introducing is a new client, introducing him to some of these
• 43:46
  ideas and approval was something that was really in the way, like
• 43:51
  he was deeply fearful that the people around him at work
• 43:54
  weren't approving of him. And I said, hold on a minute.
• 43:57
  And I went and I grabbed a photo that I have of myself as a 10
• 44:00
  year old boy holding a baseball bat right next to my desk.
• 44:04
  And, and I shared with him this photo of myself.
• 44:08
  And I, you know, when I and I have that photo there, it's been
• 44:10
  there for a couple years. And I just remind myself even
• 44:15
  back then when I wasn't getting necessarily the unconditional
• 44:19
  attention and love that I really yearned, I was just an innocent,
• 44:23
  brilliant, funny boy as worthy of love as anybody.
• 44:29
  So I just, it's actually, there's a, there's a really
• 44:32
  wonderful, I guess it's a retreat experience called the
• 44:38
  the Hoffman Process. And so I went through there.
• 44:42
  We don't need to go into a whole lot of detail, but there's there
• 44:45
  is the opportunity for us to recognize that underneath all of
• 44:52
  the bullshit and the patterns that we pick up, there was just
• 44:55
  this innocent child. We all come into this world just
• 44:59
  helpless and vulnerable, just wanting to be loved and wanting
• 45:03
  to love. And then we pick up patterns.
• 45:07
  And so for me, it's self love has come as a product of letting
• 45:12
  go of those patterns that were never mind to begin with.
• 45:15
  We all pick up patterns from her parents and the people that
• 45:18
  surround us and claiming I am not those patterns.
• 45:23
  I don't need to put on a show to be worthy of love.
• 45:27
  And so I just need to remind myself and I needed to go back
• 45:30
  and really me take that 10 year old boy with the baseball bat
• 45:37
  and put him on my lap and love the shit out of him.
• 45:41
  And that's the work for me to do.
• 45:43
  And I don't need to count on anyone else for me to just fall
• 45:49
  in love and just love him unconditionally.
• 45:52
  So how do you love yourself? Well, I think it really is
• 45:55
  loving your. I mean, I don't know how else to
• 45:57
  say it, but like, I mean, I literally can.
• 45:59
  I do, you know, if I'm in the shit, if I'm below the line, I
• 46:04
  will put my young self on my lap and give him a hug and just
• 46:09
  remind him about how brilliant he is.
• 46:14
  Dang, that's deep. That's good too, because I think
• 46:19
  we all can understand how we would love the younger version
• 46:24
  of the child, the baby, like that just makes sense, right?
• 46:27
  It's like, of course they they can mess up, they could color on
• 46:30
  the wall. It's like they're just, they're
• 46:31
  just a little human that wants some love and connection, you
• 46:33
  know? But then as adults, we're like,
• 46:35
  we're so hard on ourselves and we do beat ourselves up
• 46:39
  sometimes. And it's like sometimes we don't
• 46:40
  think we're enough or we're not worthy.
• 46:42
  And it's like, Dang, put yourself back in that little
• 46:45
  kid. Yeah.
• 46:46
  Just. Dang.
• 46:47
  Go back, hit the rewind button and just remind yourself where
• 46:50
  you started. And there was never anything
• 46:53
  lacking when you were a young person, right?
• 46:56
  Nothing. You have a daughter, right?
• 46:58
  I do. How does this stuff feed into
• 47:01
  your relationship with her as a as a parent?
• 47:03
  I mean, imagine you're trying to embed a lot of the stuff in her
• 47:06
  at a young age, right? Like as I try to do with my
• 47:08
  daughters too, but. Yeah, well, my daughter, she is
• 47:13
  clearly a, a, a mirror for me. I mean, I, you know, we all, all
• 47:17
  high schoolers have anxiety and different and she's.
• 47:21
  In high school. She's in high school, 16, and I
• 47:27
  see her fall into the traps that all 16 year olds fall in.
• 47:31
  She's figuring out what it means to be an individual.
• 47:33
  She's creating some, you know, she's gotten the patterns from
• 47:38
  me and her other parents, like growing up, and it's now hard
• 47:42
  time to figure out who she is and as an individual.
• 47:44
  But when I start hearing the stories that we alltel ourselves
• 47:48
  that that knock us down, I have to be careful to, you know, as I
• 47:55
  mentioned, like finding that self assurance and self love
• 47:58
  comes from you loving yourself. I I mean, I love that.
• 48:03
  I mean, I just love her so much and I tell her that, but I also
• 48:07
  want her to love herself. I want to encourage that rather
• 48:11
  than me making her pain go away. That actually isn't.
• 48:15
  If you really get to the depths of that, that actually isn't the
• 48:18
  most helpful thing. I actually want to be a parent
• 48:21
  that helps her see how fucking brilliant she is.
• 48:25
  That's so good, yeah. So and you know.
• 48:28
  I find myself when they'll do something and I'm proud of them
• 48:32
  saying like, I'm so proud of you.
• 48:33
  And then I'm quickly like, are you proud of yourself?
• 48:35
  You know, I almost like catch. I'm like, I, I, I as much as I,
• 48:37
  I want you to know I'm proud of you.
• 48:38
  I'd, I'd rather have you be proud of yourself.
• 48:40
  Yeah, you know, 'cause that to me is like, wow, I'm, I'm, I'm
• 48:43
  really, I love myself, like. Like, what did it feel like for
• 48:45
  you to, you know, I know you put a lot of work into this thing
• 48:49
  and then you just had your show or whatever, What if, what if?
• 48:52
  Like I'd love to hear what that was like for you.
• 48:54
  Like really help her begin to connect her own dots about her
• 48:58
  own experience. Right.
• 49:00
  It's hard as a parent too, because it's like, I have two
• 49:02
  daughters. It's like you wanted like give
• 49:04
  them all this wisdom and like protect them and that kind of
• 49:07
  stuff. But then also it's like you got
• 49:08
  to let them kind of make mistakes a little bit and fail a
• 49:11
  little bit and like, you know, a little bit of tough love at
• 49:13
  times. It's a balance.
• 49:15
  You know, we just care so much about them and you want them to
• 49:18
  turn out great. And you think about what
• 49:20
  happened, you know, as your experience as a childhood, and
• 49:22
  you want to make sure that the good stuff they get and the bad
• 49:25
  stuff they don't. And it's like, and you're just
• 49:27
  kind of trying your best at the end of the day, right?
• 49:29
  And it's like. Listen, I mean nothing easy
• 49:32
  about being a parent. Yeah, we try our just try your
• 49:37
  best. And it's real easy to want to
• 49:40
  save our most beloved beings from any pain.
• 49:44
  And I just have to remind myself, I want her to experience
• 49:48
  her own life and I want her to learn from like we learn through
• 49:52
  adversity and through when we skin our knee, we get up and we
• 49:55
  learned well, why did I fall in the 1st place?
• 49:57
  Like, what's the lesson here for me?
• 49:59
  And so there's just a little bit of a balance.
• 50:01
  You know, you don't want her to fall off the Cliff.
• 50:03
  So if you see something, it's really bad coming, OK, well,
• 50:06
  maybe I'm going to step in a little bit more.
• 50:08
  But otherwise, how do I let her have her experience and help her
• 50:11
  learn from her experience along the way?
• 50:14
  If you were getting on a spaceship right now and you're
• 50:16
  going to a faraway planet that is the next Earth and you were
• 50:20
  never coming back, what might you leave with your daughter?
• 50:22
  If you had a maybe a 22nd, 32nd recording and you had just had
• 50:27
  one message aside from I love you.
• 50:29
  And that stuff is sort of like a piece of wisdom that you might
• 50:32
  give her. Remember earlier in this
• 50:35
  conversation you said, should I ask people ahead of time the
• 50:39
  question I'm going to ask them? That would have been a good one,
• 50:43
  huh? Wow.
• 50:44
  That's a tough one, right? Great question.
• 50:46
  Yeah. What's the sound bite?
• 50:48
  I would leave her if I was never going to see her again.
• 50:50
  Yeah, just the one piece of wisdom you.
• 50:52
  Know piece of wisdom. There's lots of things you would
• 50:53
  say in that moment, but like, what's the one?
• 50:55
  If you could just instill one message, like play this every
• 50:58
  day and remember, obviously I love you and all that stuff, but
• 51:01
  like, remember this as you go through your life.
• 51:03
  This is going to be the such an important piece.
• 51:08
  I don't know if this is right or not, and it actually doesn't.
• 51:10
  I'm not all that inspired by the answer, but what came to my mind
• 51:12
  is always ask yourself, is it true?
• 51:17
  And what I mean by that is she knows what that means.
• 51:19
  We tell ourselves all these stories constantly and we scare
• 51:22
  ourselves around these stories. And 98% of the time those
• 51:25
  stories are a bunch of shit that we're telling ourselves.
• 51:28
  Is it true that I'm not enough, that I'm not this, that I'm not
• 51:33
  that? Is it true?
• 51:35
  That's good. I like that.
• 51:37
  That's what comes to mind. That's amazing.
• 51:38
  Without having time to prepare my answer.
• 51:41
  Yeah, yeah. And that's like, it's like I was
• 51:43
  telling Jim Nordale like you're I'm making videos and I've been
• 51:45
  making videos for a while now and even the podcast and there's
• 51:48
  times when I finish a video and I'm like, man, I would have
• 51:50
  answered that differently or I would have said something
• 51:52
  different. I would have included more.
• 51:54
  But then I go back to like, but dude, it's one video dog.
• 51:57
  Like it was one podcast. Like you did a great job, You
• 52:00
  know what I mean? Like you gave so much to the
• 52:02
  audience listening. Like you didn't have to get
• 52:04
  every question right. You didn't have to add every
• 52:07
  little thing in there. There's going to be more and
• 52:10
  there's going to, you're going to do it again, and there's
• 52:11
  going to, you know, and it's like that just kind of ties back
• 52:14
  into what we've been talking about, just being able to like,
• 52:17
  yeah, it's good. I accept that.
• 52:20
  Yeah. You know.
• 52:20
  Yeah. Clay, dude, this has been
• 52:22
  awesome, man. You're welcome back here any
• 52:24
  freaking time. I just genuinely wasn't this an
• 52:26
  awesome conversation, Jim. Awesome.
• 52:28
  Yeah, man. I mean, this is just awesome.
• 52:30
  So where can people find you, get in touch with you and work
• 52:33
  with you? And maybe if you've got
• 52:34
  something that like a current kind of offering or whatever
• 52:37
  you're running right now, let us know.
• 52:40
  This is maybe something else I should have thought about ahead
• 52:42
  of time. Maybe I'm not the best marketer.
• 52:44
  All the time come in. He's like, I love how this is
• 52:45
  unscripted and at the end he's like, I wish this was I.
• 52:47
  Haven't thought about this at all.
• 52:48
  Just ask me a bunch of questions.
• 52:50
  Yeah, well, the website is1560.com and what that is is
• 52:55
  15 SIXTY we'll. Link it up in the description.
• 53:00
  OK, cool. At Oh, So Yeah, at 1560.com,
• 53:06
  15-S IX ty.com, you can always go there and there's contact
• 53:09
  information there. LinkedIn slash Clay Stelzer.
• 53:14
  You'll probably have that there as well.
• 53:16
  So you can reach me through LinkedIn, you can reach me
• 53:18
  through the website currently, you know, I do a ton of
• 53:22
  one-on-one coaching for senior leaders, CEO's, executive
• 53:27
  leaders of small mid sized companies, just so people are
• 53:32
  aware of the kinds of things. I also am doing a lot these days
• 53:35
  with duo coaching. So a CEO and a COO or a CEO and
• 53:39
  ACF. It's basically, it's kind of the
• 53:42
  funny. It's like marriage counseling.
• 53:43
  Yeah, what butt heads? What?
• 53:45
  It's the. Most important relationship in a
• 53:46
  company and and everything is a reflection of that relationship.
• 53:50
  So I'm doing a lot of coaching with the two at the top and then
• 53:54
  team executive team coaching where the whole executive team,
• 53:57
  we're going to get together and talk about who you are as a
• 53:59
  team. Those are the the typical types
• 54:02
  of programs that we're offering currently.
• 54:04
  And really to increase performance of the company
• 54:07
  culture, build culture, create better team, you know,
• 54:10
  camaraderie that. Kind of and to get unstuck.
• 54:12
  Yeah. You know, to see yourselves as a
• 54:17
  creator in the world, as an executive, you know, if you're
• 54:21
  experiencing outcomes that you're not happy with, can we
• 54:24
  just get curious about what you're up to that's leading you
• 54:27
  and that company to those outcomes?
• 54:29
  And there's always an answer. And then once we have that
• 54:32
  answer, well, what would you be willing to do to get a different
• 54:35
  outcome? And so I love more than anything
• 54:37
  to help people get more of what they're wanting in their lives
• 54:40
  and in their businesses and to knock out whatever the patterns
• 54:43
  are or whatever the whatever's in the way of of that.
• 54:46
  Thanks for being here, brother. It's my pleasure.
• 54:48
  We'll have you on again for. Short, terrific.
• 54:50
  I love it. Sounds good.
• 54:51
  Thanks.