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DDH | The Last Off Ramp · Plausibly Live - The Dave Bowman Show Podcast

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Oh, Galley Electric brings you our final hour of a Tuesday
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morning. It is the 15th of September
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2026. Glad you're along with us here
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on 92.7 FM WMMB. Dave Bowman also along with us,
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our headline at billmic.com today.
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By the way, if you click on that headline, it'll take you to the
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show page and you get links to the Dave Bowman Show.
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Dave does history and what the frock is.
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Dave and Rod get together weekly for that podcast.
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So all those links are there for you.
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But our headline at billmic.com today is destroying history,
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Republican style. Now we talked about that in our
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6:00 hour this morning. Our Tuesday 8:00 hour is
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dedicated to remembering history through the eyes of historian
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Dave Bowman. And Dave, we are passed the
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Declaration of Independence, we are into the Revolutionary War,
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and we're getting to be about September of 1776.
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What do we have going on, Sir? Well, I thought it was
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appropriate given September 11th is such a meaningful date in our
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history to talk about September 11th and what happened in on
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Staten Island in 1776. But before we get there, the
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Battle of Long Island we talked about did not go well for the
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Americans. None of these battles are going
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well. That's part of the problem with
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George Washington and the Continental Army retreating
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across the eastern the East River.
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I don't know why I would say Eastern River, but the East
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River and the British certainly have the tactical and strategic
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advantages at this point and things are not going well for
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the Americans. Gay independence, but the war
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not doing well. Now on the other side of things,
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the British leaders are two brothers, Richard and William
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Howe Howe, and they have civil commissions from their
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government as peace commissioners.
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Now this is an interesting idea. Not only are they the military
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leaders of the British forces, but they have been granted the
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ability to conduct peace negotiations if the opportunity
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presents itself. The original Starfleet.
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In some ways, yeah. Now these two brothers are
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intriguing and we don't have a lot of time to spend on them.
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But they are people who are known to lean towards favoring
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the colonial position, both of them having served in Parliament
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and having voted in favor of the colonies on some issues.
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They are not hardcore royalists. In other words, they are people
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who the colonies should be able to talk to and work with.
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And so, since they have these peace commissions, they get an
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idea. During the Battle of Long
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Island, they managed to capture Major General John Sullivan of
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of the Continental Army. Now John Sullivan's one of those
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characters who's going to keep popping up during the
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Revolutionary War. He's one of Washington's most
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relied upon generals during the during the American
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Revolutionary War. It's also curious why he keeps
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coming back. He's like an NFL coach that
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can't win but looks good and people keep hiring him even
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though he sucks. John Sullivan's kind of in that
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vein. He's popular.
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Washington likes him, but he's just not that great of a
3:29
general. He he will eventually do
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something that is helpful, but right now he's not.
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He's he's in charge of one of the wings at the Battle of Long
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Island. Of course, that doesn't go well.
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He gets captured. The Howl brothers look at him
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and think to themselves, here we have an opportunity.
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And so they decide to basically pardon and parole Lieutenant or
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Major General John Sullivan. They give him a message and they
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say you go to Philadelphia and when you get to Philadelphia you
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talk to those been there and tell them that we would like to
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sit down and have a peace conference.
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The idea is attractive. The idea is interesting, but the
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idea has a fatal flaw in it that is going to keep it from
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obviously working. And we get to that in moments
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here on WMMB. So prisoner John Sullivan, the
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general, is paroled, sent to Philadelphia.
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And the idea is, let's broker a piece here.
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Well, let's at least talk about it now.
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The problem is that how's the how's the how brothers have made
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it clear to Sullivan and they've made it clear in their note that
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he they're willing to sit down and talk with Congress, sending
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representatives to this, but dot, dot, dot not as Congress.
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They'll only talk to them as quote, private gentleman, UN
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quote. Now, when Sullivan reaches
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Congress and he delivers this message, this creates a
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firestorm of controversy in Congress.
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John Adams, remember him? John Adams is absolutely furious
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about this whole thing. He is against having this
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meeting. He thinks this is a bad idea.
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He labels Sullivan as a quote decoy duck sent to lure the
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Americans into abandoning their independence.
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He goes so far to explain that he believes that what the Howls
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are doing is Machiavellian, which of course is a word that
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may or may not be understood today, but certainly was in the
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1776 era. Machiavellian, named after
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Machiavelli, the, the, the antagon, the protagonist of the
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book. And, and he's a very
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manipulative, you know, almost Faustian type character who's
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who's trying to trick people into doing things that are bad
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for them. He believes that this manoeuvre
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is designed to divide the colonies and more importantly,
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what will happen is if they go and have this meeting and
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something is decided which Adams already knows is going to be
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nothing. He believes that with the
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British are actually doing is shifting the blame for the war
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from the British to the Congress, saying, oh, from now
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on, the odium of continuing the war falls on Congress instead of
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the Brits, which of course is, you know, politically
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advantageous to the British and would make the Congress people
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look kind of, you know, whatever on the September the 5th 1776
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Congress is faced with those two options.
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Do we refuse the meeting? And if we do that, do we look
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unreasonable to the public? Do we lose domestic support
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because we're not willing to talk?
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I mean, you know, this is kind of a kind of one of those
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situations. Should you always be willing to
7:07
talk? Should you not be willing to
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talk? The the other option, of course,
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is to accept the meeting as the House have set the conditions.
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And then you risk falling into their trap, which would kind of
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implicitly abandoned the newly declared independence.
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If if we don't meet them as Congress, then the House have
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basically said Congress is pointless.
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And you people just need to, you know, come back to to where we
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are. Right.
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So Congress decides that we're going to have, we're going to do
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this, but we're going to do it on our own terms.
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On September 5th, they pass a resolution stating that as they
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are the representatives of a free and independent states,
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they can send members in a private capacity, but they
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agreed to send the committee to inquire about Lord Howe's actual
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powers. In other words, we're going to
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ask you first, what actual powers do you have here before
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we decide to do that? And that's what we're going to
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send to this meeting. Now, they select three people.
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They want a northerner, they want a middle play guy, and they
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want a Southern guy. So obviously the middle guy is
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easy. That's Benjamin Franklin,
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because Benjamin Franklin knows the house.
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He's he's good with all, he's got extensive experience and all
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this stuff. The Southern guy is a guy by the
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name of Edward Rutledge, who is a politician from the South.
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He is well known for his negotiating skills.
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He's well known for his firebrand positions and he's
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considered to be, you know, one of those guys that can really
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discuss things and represent the southern views.
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It's that northern group that's a little more touchy here.
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Who do you send to to do this? Remember that the revolution is
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really born in that area. They choose Dun, Dun, Dun John
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Adams, who does not want to go to this meeting at all.
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He thinks this meeting is a bad idea.
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He thinks it's a terrible idea. But his Congress, his country
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has said, we think you're the best person to go.
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He's the, he's the best legal constitutional mind.
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He has the expertise, he's fierce on independence and he's,
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he's so a fierce on independence bill that when they travel to
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this thing, Franklin and Rutledge will ride in a carriage
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and Adams refuses to do that. He rides on horseback, which
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just kind of sends a message to this whole thing.
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They they set off to go to Staten Island for this meeting
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and they have to stop for the night on September 9th in a
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place called Brunswick, New Jersey.
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And this leads to one of the more amusing moments in American
10:00
history because there is no room at the end, so to speak, John
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Adams has to share a room with Benjamin Franklin.
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And not just a room, they have to sleep in the same bed.
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And you may have seen this. This is well played in 1776.
10:18
The film Franklin, as you know, likes the window open for fresh
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air. And Adams hates that.
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He wants the window cold. He wants it closed because it's
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cold and he thinks it's going to make him sick if the windows
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open. The result is that Franklin
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spends the entire night lecturing Adams on silence, on
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science. Sorry.
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And, and, and eventually he puts Adams to sleep before they can
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get up the next morning and head on out to the rest of Staten
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Island. And this, of course, one of the
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great moments in American history.
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Benjamin Franklin's lecture to Adams on the science of
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respiration. That would put me to sleep too.
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Yeah, I think that'd probably do it.
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We continue. We'll see how the summit goes,
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where it leads, as Dave does. History continues in moments
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right here on Bill Mick Live on 92.7 FM WMMB.
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This is Dave Does history on Bill Mick Live.
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Oh, Galley electrics bringing you the hour as we take a look
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at September 11th coming up here on of 1776, a marked day in this
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country's history. And this one something I hadn't
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been paying attention to. Dave, let's get back into it.
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You've got Ben Franklin, John Adams and Edward Rutledge headed
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to Staten Island to have a conference with the Brits.
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I'm, I'm, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Franklin put me to sleep with
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that lecture. And it was.
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Sorry, yes he did. Got to get woken up here.
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So imagine that you spend the night with Ben Franklin and he
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spends the night lecturing you about how to breathe.
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Yeah, not something I'd be looking forward to, I'm sure.
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Adams was not happy. So the next day, September 11th,
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the the delegation arrives. They they cross over to Staten
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Island under a flag of truce. Now I would imagine that there
12:18
has to be some nerve racking element to that.
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Remember that John Adams is a wanted treason person by the
12:26
British government. Imagine the courage that it
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takes to do that. Franklin probably doesn't see it
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the same way. Rutledge is not quite in that
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same vein that Adams is in, but I, I, I would imagine going
12:38
through his mind as some kind of, you know, is this really, is
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this really safe or not? Or was this a trick to just
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capture me? They arrive at a place called
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Bilop House, BILLOPP House. And this is a house that is set
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aside by the British. It's kind of a command
12:58
headquarters to make matters kind of I, I don't know how I
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would have reacted to this. The the three are escorted by
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Hessian troops, not British troops.
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They're escorted by Hessian troops, kind of sending kind of
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an. Ominous sign too.
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It's kind of a message, isn't it?
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I mean, we're not meeting you as loyal fellow on an equal level.
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We're sending our lackeys to do this.
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The room is decorated with Moss and spriggs.
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It's it's kind of the Howe brothers kind of decorated it so
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that it wouldn't look quite as much as a military room, more of
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a, a civilian type setting. And they serve a rather
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sumptuous, we're told, meal, the meal consisting of claret, a a
13:44
type of wine, ham, mutton and something called tongue.
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I don't even want to know what that is.
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The veneer of extreme aristocracy and civility masks
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the immediate threat of total military destruction.
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There's almost like this mindset that says, you know, we're going
14:02
to, we're going to pretend that we're all gentlemen here and
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have a nice conversation. The problem starts, of course,
14:12
with the opening words. Lord Howe starts by referring
14:17
to, by by repeating and reiterating this, this idea.
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He says, quote, I can only confer with you as private
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gentleman and British subjects. I possess no authority to
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recognize the Continental Congress, UN quote.
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Now, if that's where we're going to be, doesn't that kind of just
14:39
destroy the whole thing already? I mean, why did we go through
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all this and, and imagine Adams's position here?
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Not only did I have to make this trip from Philadelphia to New
14:51
York, which, you know, again, in our world is what, 30 minutes
14:55
nowadays? It's in those days.
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It was a couple of four days. Not only that, but I had to
15:01
sleep in the same bed with Benjamin Franklin and listen to
15:03
him drone on all night about respiration.
15:06
And then you tell me you can't really talk to us.
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His response is legendary. Should be in the top American
15:15
quotes of all time, he said. And I quote you may consider me
15:20
in any character except that of a British subject.
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I'm sure that didn't lead to great places.
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We'll find out as we continue. So this thing starts off on a
15:33
bad note, Dave. It, it's, it's basically I'm
15:36
telling you how I'm going to address you and you're telling
15:38
me you can't address me that way.
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It's kind of like, well, I mean, at there's actually an incident
15:46
earlier where a letter was sent from the House to to George
15:51
Washington. And in this letter was something
15:55
similar to the hey, can't we just talk this out, you know,
15:58
kind of thing. But the problem was that the
16:01
house addressed the letter to just plain GOGEO period
16:07
Washington. And Washington was so offended
16:10
by that. He was like, wait, I'm a
16:12
general, you know, you, you, you can at least address me by my
16:17
title. And I think there's something.
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And and so he never opened the letter, never, never read it.
16:24
Do we know what it said? Was it?
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We do, but don't ask me off the top of my head, 'cause I didn't.
16:30
Put in. Front.
16:30
But yes, we know what was in the letter and it was very it was
16:33
very diplomatic and it wasn't anything bad.
16:35
It was just it was just interesting to see Washington's
16:37
response to that. And there's almost this growing
16:40
mindset. Remember, we've only been a
16:42
country for what, July, August, September, We've only been a
16:46
country country for three months Max.
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And we're already feeling our oats here with this mindset
16:52
that, hey, you're going to treat us as equals or else we're just
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not going to, we're just not going to deal with that.
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And you have to feel for the Howe brothers because again,
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they are not anti American. They are not anti colonies.
17:09
They, they have made it clear through the, through their work
17:13
in Parliament and even in accepting the commissions and
17:17
the commands in America, they weren't excited about that.
17:19
In fact, one of them had said he wouldn't go fight Americans, but
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the king told him, yes, you will and duty before whatever, I
17:30
guess. And so he he had come on over
17:32
there. It's clear that they would
17:35
rather not do this. And they know that they are
17:38
about to win this war. They are about to crush
17:40
Washington's army. They've already chased him out
17:42
of, of Long Island and Manhattan.
17:45
They know that the next military move is likely to be the final
17:48
one. They're going to smash all this
17:49
stuff. And they are very they don't
17:54
want to do this. But then you got John Adams
18:00
sneering at them. You may consider me in any
18:02
character except that as a British subject, I am not This
18:06
will lead this will lead Lord Howe to refer to him as quote, a
18:11
decided character. He's which is a very British way
18:15
of saying, wow, this guy is he's out there.
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Lord Howe expressed it, reminded them that he expressed his
18:23
fondness for America, and he made this statement.
18:25
If America fell, I should feel and lament it like the loss of a
18:31
brother. Now, this is a deliberate
18:34
reference to his older brother who had been killed at the
18:37
Battle of Ticonderoga. And he, he is trying to make it
18:42
clear that, look, I'm not necessarily your enemy.
18:46
I'm not necessarily against you. But you know, I got to do my job
18:53
here. I got to do this.
18:54
I got to do that. Ben Franklin looks at him square
18:57
in the eye. And as only Ben Franklin can do,
18:59
he says, My Lord, we will do our utmost endeavors to save your
19:04
lordship that mortification. There's not much that can be
19:11
done here. How will admit again that his
19:13
Commission only authorizes the granting of pardons upon
19:17
submission? In other words, if you
19:19
surrender, I can pardon you. But the American delegates
19:23
maintained that national independence is non negotiable.
19:26
So we've hit an impasse is what we've had.
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And, well, you know, we're going to continue to talk for three
19:34
hours because talking is talking.
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Beats the alternative. I guess so that's.
19:45
And we continue, Dave does history on Bill Mick Live 1
19:49
segment to go here on a Tuesday morning on WMNB.
19:53
Nice to have you along with us. We wrap it up when we continue.
19:56
Empires rise, empires fall, and somebody always writes it down,
20:03
but not always legibly. Good thing you're here and Dave
20:08
has somewhat decent penmanship. It's Dave Does history on Bill
20:14
Mick live? Oh, Galley Electric are our
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sponsor. Don't forget you can follow us
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on Instagram at WMNB Radio. And as we get ready to wrap this
20:23
up, So they had the summit on Staten Island and three hours
20:28
and they are at loggerheads from the beginning.
20:31
So not a lot happening here, Dave.
20:33
Well, and again, you've got a core deadlock here, which is
20:36
that House Peace Commissioner Commission strictly limits his
20:41
ability. He can only grant pardons if the
20:44
Americans totally submit to him. And, of course, Congress has
20:48
told their delegates national independence is not negotiable.
20:52
So there literally is no middle ground here.
20:54
There's no way to make these talks mean anything.
20:59
So they met, they talked, and they went away.
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I mean, what is else is there to do?
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Ambrose Searle, who is the military secretary to Lord Howe,
21:08
will actually write these words. They met, they talked and they
21:11
parted. And now nothing remains but to
21:14
fight it out. Now, if it all ended there,
21:18
you'd go. Well, OK, who benefited from any
21:22
of this? I mean, do the British benefit
21:25
from having this meeting and, and us basically saying you can
21:29
call us anything you want except British citizens?
21:32
Or was there any advantage to them at all for doing this?
21:37
Does it make the British look like, well, we're at least
21:39
trying to be benevolent? Was it?
21:43
An Was it an opportunity for Washington to restock, resupply,
21:48
get ready for what's coming next?
21:49
Well, that's all going on anyway.
21:51
So, and the British are doing the same thing.
21:55
On September 17th, the commissioners, the Adams,
21:58
Franklin and and Rutledge will submit their written report to
22:01
Congress and they include in that House original message that
22:06
he sent, you know, asking for this meeting.
22:10
Congress is is actually a lot smarter than our Congress today.
22:15
They immediately recognize Howe's original message and what
22:19
happened at the meeting as valuable, and they immediately
22:24
ordered the mass publication of the report to the public.
22:27
The public reads this and realizes very quickly that there
22:32
was no actual meeting here. There was no opportunity here to
22:35
actually solve the issue. What they realized based on how
22:39
a statement and what happened at this meeting that Great Britain
22:43
was only offering quote, submission and pardons, UN
22:47
quote, rather than any genuine concessions at all.
22:50
When they they weren't willing to discuss all the 27 of those
22:54
grievances. None of that.
22:55
All they wanted to do was say you submit to us and we will
22:58
pardon you. The result is that the public
23:02
opinion in the United States kind of unifies around this.
23:06
The Declaration of Independence has proven to be a permanent,
23:09
irreversible step. And it it's almost like it gets
23:14
a second breath and starts going around again.
23:16
These are the grievances we have.
23:19
And this is what they were willing to say to us.
23:21
Well, you submit to us as not equals and we will pardon you
23:29
and you can be British subjects again.
23:32
The key phrase being subject, not citizen.
23:38
The military clock now resumes. Of course, we'd had the
23:41
disastrous battle of Long Island which led to Sullivan being
23:44
captured, which led to him being sent to.
23:46
There. We have the September 11th
23:47
Congress convention conference, Sorry.
23:51
And it's during this convention, during this meeting on September
23:54
11th, General Howe intentionally delays his assault on Manhattan
23:58
by two weeks. He wants this summit to happen,
24:03
and so he waits to see what will happen.
24:05
He knows that he he knows that he's going to win anyway, so he
24:08
doesn't see any problem with the leg.
24:11
On September 15th, just four days after the conference,
24:15
British forces land at Kipps Bay, they capture New York City.
24:18
Finally, they drive Washington's forces up to Harlem Heights.
24:22
And all of the diplomacy is now done.
24:26
There is an irreversible shift here, if you will.
24:30
Before September 11th, 1776, the conflict was fundamentally a
24:35
colonial uprising seeking the redresses of grievances from a
24:40
monarchy. Prior to that, even though we
24:43
had declared our independence, we have these 27 grievances,
24:47
which if you're willing to talk about, maybe we can, you know,
24:51
work our way through this. But after September 11th, after
24:55
we realized that the British aren't willing to discuss any of
24:58
this, their peace commissioners, who theoretically are on our,
25:02
not on our side, but at least leaning our direction, have no
25:06
authority to make any discussion to this whatsoever.
25:10
So after September 11th, 1776, the conflict definitively
25:14
transforms into a full scale, irreversible war for national
25:19
sovereignty, which means that the Staten Island Summit stands
25:23
as the final attempt at diplomatic reconciliation
25:28
between Great Britain and the American colonies before the
25:32
Revolutionary War will eventually end.
25:35
And it will take some time. Obviously, it's going to take us
25:39
eight years before we get to that point and we sit down and
25:41
talk again. The moment the ink dries on the
25:45
report to Congress, the era of negotiations is over.
25:49
And in many ways, this is where the American Revolution war,
25:54
Revolutionary War really begins. Yes, there had been fighting up
25:58
to that point, but all the fighting up to that point had
26:00
been with this idea that maybe there's an off ramp somewhere.
26:05
Maybe we can talk about this, maybe we can work this out.
26:11
But it's clear now General Howe has said it himself.
26:15
I cannot offer you anything except pardons upon submission.
26:22
And as Adams himself made it very clear, that's not going to
26:25
happen. So you need to, you need to
26:29
buckle up. Now, the problem of course, is
26:31
that militarily we're still not, still not in a position to be
26:36
able to, to do this. And the the issues with the
26:41
battles in New York, the six battles that are going to happen
26:44
there with, with Washington retreating and retreating and
26:47
retreating, have left us in a position of we can say it, but
26:53
unless we can actually do something about it, it doesn't
26:57
really mean anything. And while the public is getting
27:00
fired up about this British insult to us, this idea that
27:06
they're intransigent and they are not going to do anything
27:09
except subsume us and make us subjects to them as opposed to
27:14
citizens again, it still doesn't win battles.
27:20
And Washington is still facing that issue.
27:22
He is still withdrawing. He is still slowly pulling back.
27:25
He is still having trouble. And he still has an army that is
27:31
slowly fading away. Those those enlistments are
27:35
expiring and all those things are getting into he doesn't have
27:39
enough ammunition, doesn't have enough of this, doesn't have
27:40
enough of that. What he does have, of course, is
27:43
Thomas Paine, and he does have General John Sullivan, who,
27:47
despite the fact that he's not that great of a general, is
27:50
willing to do some things that are going to come in handy over
27:54
the next few weeks. And we'll pick it up in just a
27:58
moment. So Dave, this you said something
28:01
that caught my ear as you were talking about this, that what
28:04
this event really did, this summit on Staten Island, it
28:08
really locked in the ideals of the Declaration of Independence.
28:12
You said permanent and irreversible.
28:17
That is huge for what happened to.
28:20
You it's, it's a remarkable moment in history.
28:22
I mean, yes, it, it, it takes that moment.
28:28
It takes these ideas and it really puts them into concrete.
28:31
Look, we're not fighting because we're mad.
28:35
We're fighting because you are denying us our liberty.
28:39
And if all you're willing to do is say, well, if you'll stop
28:43
fighting us, we'll give you a pardon and you submit to us.
28:48
Well, those, all those ideals, all that history, all that logic
28:52
that went into the Declaration of Independence, all these
28:54
grievances that we've had become meaningless because we basically
28:58
say, well, comfort and safety is more important than liberty.
29:03
And they weren't willing to do that.
29:05
They weren't willing to accept that idea that, hey, we just
29:07
give up and, and everything will be fine.
29:10
We won't be shooting at each other anymore, but we still
29:12
won't have any liberty. Now, maybe things change, maybe
29:16
they don't. I given the history of the
29:18
British Empire, you have to assume that things eventually
29:21
would have changed. But how long does that take?
29:25
And and in the meantime, what happens to the rest of the
29:29
country and the rest of history? Do we continue to remember?
29:32
The king had said we can't go West of the Appalachian
29:34
Mountains. So are we just stuck here in
29:37
these 13 lands? Collins Who knows how that works
29:41
out, but I'm glad it didn't. 33217681240 line one, you're up
29:47
with Dave Bowman on Bill Mick Live.
29:48
Good morning. A fantastic story the the the
29:52
obvious 1 Ryan. Holland, who's this?
29:54
Where you calling from? Oh, I'm sorry.
29:56
This is Matt from West Melbourne.
29:58
Yeah, go ahead, Matt. The obvious take away too is the
30:02
the superiority complex, I guess if you want to call it one of
30:06
the British never never really changed.
30:08
So, so they, that, that was an attitude they, they never really
30:13
went in, went, went into these negotiations, if you will, with
30:16
the for the mindset that, you know, these colonists can, can
30:20
somehow upset, upset and take over the, the continent.
30:24
And you know, and so it, I think that's another example Dave
30:30
brings out that the British just have the superiority complex.
30:34
It ain't going to it's not going to end.
30:35
And it didn't, it didn't end for quite a while, maybe until
30:39
Cornwallis got captured. You know that that's when they
30:43
finally it it it, it broke out. So I have a great, great story,
30:46
guys. Thank you.
30:47
Thanks, Matt. Appreciate that.
30:49
Yeah, it it was British arrogance and the idea that you
30:52
are subjects until we tell you you're not.
30:54
And we're not going to tell you that.
30:56
And it's intriguing because the house themselves probably didn't
30:59
personally feel that way. But you have the.
31:04
Right and. And you have this idea of duty
31:07
and you have this idea of, well, if the king is on his throne
31:10
because God put him there, then disobedience to the king is
31:12
disobedience to God. I don't understand why these
31:15
Americans don't understand that. But but, but, but clearly we
31:18
didn't. And, and you know, the hows are
31:21
not very successful in, in the American Revolutionary War.
31:24
In fact, soon after this, they're going to be relieved
31:27
because they're not perceived as as pursuing it as aggressively
31:31
as the king would like. And maybe that was on purpose,
31:34
maybe it wasn't. It's hard to say for sure.
31:37
But yes, there is a certain element here of British
31:39
arrogance that is intense. Yeah, no doubt.
31:43
Good morning. You're next on Bill Mick Live.
31:45
Good morning, this is William Melbourne.
31:47
Hi, William. A lot of good men died in that
31:50
war and we still got the 27 grievances and we're adding more
31:56
My comment. Thank you, William.
31:58
Always good to have you along. It's not a document of
32:02
achievement, it's a document of aspiration.
32:04
Right, Dave? A lot of it is, yeah.
32:07
And I, I understand what he's saying about the grievances.
32:10
If you were to read, and this is one of the reasons why we went
32:12
through the grievances, I, I think if you were to read the
32:14
grievances today, you would see a lot of things that would be
32:19
familiar to us now. The only difference is we
32:22
elected the people that are doing it to us today, whereas,
32:27
yeah, in 1776 they were forced upon us.
32:31
And maybe that's the difference. I don't know.
32:33
Maybe it's OK to have higher taxes if we voted for it.
32:36
Well, and the idea of holding on to it, do it.
32:40
Do we really cherish the liberty that we talked about for better
32:45
than a year? No, we do not.
32:48
We don't. Even know do we believe in
32:50
accountability as we talked earlier in the day, Dave Bowman,
32:54
always a pleasure my friend. We'll talk to you next Tuesday.
32:57
We'll see you then.