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How Do Halloween Masks Affect Our Behavior? · Why We Do What We Do

0:23
Speaker 1: Welcome to Why We Do what We Do. I am
0:25
Speaker 1: your anonymous host Abraham, and I'm your Do you remember
0:30
Speaker 1: that Goosebumps book called The Haunted Mask host Chain. We
0:34
Speaker 1: are a psychology podcast. We talk about the things that
0:37
Speaker 1: humans and non human animals do, and for the entire
0:41
Speaker 1: month of October we look toward the spookyer topics that
0:45
Speaker 1: might be related to psychology, and we try and apply
0:48
Speaker 1: a psychological examination of those topics to the extent possible,
0:53
Speaker 1: although sometimes it ends up looking like us just like
0:56
Speaker 1: taking a fun thing and talking about it, even though
0:59
Speaker 1: it's not as directly related to psychology. But it's our podcast.
1:02
Speaker 1: We can do whatever we want, so yeah, but I
1:05
Speaker 1: think we usually get it in there. I think we
1:07
Speaker 1: usually land somewhere around Psychology is like an aspect of this.
1:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're usually pretty good about it.
1:14
Speaker 1: This one's more directly related, because we'll be talking about
1:18
Speaker 1: Halloween masks and specifically how they affect and change our
1:22
Speaker 1: behavior and what we might think about and do about
1:25
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. But before we get into that topic,
1:28
Speaker 1: I would like to welcome you. Thank you for being here,
1:31
Speaker 1: and if you are joining us for the first time,
1:32
Speaker 1: then I hope that you enjoy what you hear in
1:34
Speaker 1: this discussion today, and note that it is a little
1:38
Speaker 1: off of the normal beaten path from where we tend
1:40
Speaker 1: to find ourselves with more traditional psychological discussions. And I
1:45
Speaker 1: think relatedly, like in the disability and accessibility space, is
1:49
Speaker 1: a very common place we find ourselves. Yeah, and if
1:51
Speaker 1: you're a returning person, then I hope that you continue
1:54
Speaker 1: to enjoy the stuff that you're hearing. Thank you for
1:56
Speaker 1: continuing to listen. I think that's great. We appreciate you.
1:59
Speaker 1: And if you'd like to support us, one way you
2:01
Speaker 1: can do that is joining us on Patreon. You can
2:03
Speaker 1: pick up some merch leave us a rating and review,
2:05
Speaker 1: like subscribe to tell a friends, And I'll talk more
2:07
Speaker 1: about those things at the end of our discussion. But
2:11
Speaker 1: I think that that's what I have to say for preamble.
2:13
Speaker 1: Is there anything that I'm missing before we get into.
2:16
Speaker 2: This, No, I think we're good now.
2:18
Speaker 1: All right, Well, this episode releases on October twenty seconds,
2:23
Speaker 1: and so if you're listening to this on the release date,
2:26
Speaker 1: then good on you for staying up on your podcast feed.
2:29
Speaker 1: That's pretty cool. And speaking of which, Happy Smart is
2:32
Speaker 1: Cool day, because that's what day it is, and listen
2:35
Speaker 1: to the podcast is smart, and so you're cool for
2:37
Speaker 1: being Well, it can't be smart sometimes it's not. But
2:39
Speaker 1: listening to our podcast as smart and smart as cool.
2:42
Speaker 1: So that's the.
2:42
Speaker 2: Holiday, said like a real nerd. It's also wombat Day today.
2:48
Speaker 2: Yesterday I learned that wombats have like a significant amount
2:51
Speaker 2: of cartilage in their butt, so that when they hide
2:54
Speaker 2: in their burrows, they hide in their burrows with their
2:56
Speaker 2: butt out, so when productors try to bite their butts,
2:59
Speaker 2: they can't really bite them. Is the amount of cartilage
3:00
Speaker 2: it's in it wild?
3:03
Speaker 1: That is wild. I don't know what to think about
3:04
Speaker 1: that besides it being wild.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot to unpack there.
3:09
Speaker 1: All right, Well, I guess sort of relatedly, it's National
3:13
Speaker 1: Nut Day. Sure, like almonds and walnuts and things that
3:18
Speaker 1: are probably actually seeds are given how botanical classifications work,
3:23
Speaker 1: probably fruits or meats or something. But it's National nut Day.
3:26
Speaker 1: This is what I'm getting at.
3:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like, I mean, I love nuts. It's Make
3:30
Speaker 2: a Dog's Day Day, which I love.
3:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, code give a dog a bone or some
3:36
Speaker 1: peanut butter. It is National caps lock Day, so congratulations.
3:44
Speaker 2: It's I'm only going to speak an uppercase from now on.
3:48
Speaker 1: It is a National coloring day in all caps.
3:52
Speaker 2: In all caps.
3:53
Speaker 1: It is International Stuttering Awareness Day. It's an important one.
3:58
Speaker 1: Have we talked about stuttering on the show. I don't
4:00
Speaker 1: know if we have. I don't know.
4:01
Speaker 2: Okay, I feel like, why do we talk about speech disfluencies?
4:04
Speaker 2: But I know, I don't think we've talk about stuttering.
4:06
Speaker 1: Hmmm. It feels like something we would have covered, but
4:09
Speaker 1: I actually don't think we have off to look.
4:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, anyway, it is leave a review day, so please
4:14
Speaker 2: do that. Yeah, that's what gets the word out for
4:16
Speaker 2: a podcast.
4:17
Speaker 1: Five stars, greatest podcast ever I did. I just did
4:20
Speaker 1: it for you. You can you can take that. You're welcome and.
4:22
Speaker 2: Think, yeah, there you go, just copy and paste.
4:24
Speaker 1: It is Scar Appreciation Day.
4:26
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't really like what he did
4:28
Speaker 2: to those hyenas. It's it's chemistry week.
4:34
Speaker 1: Oh those good? All right? And it is free speech week.
4:39
Speaker 1: And what a hilarious saying that it's free speech. Yeah,
4:42
Speaker 1: I know. I was like, the thing is like, that's
4:44
Speaker 1: one of those things that gets champion is a thing
4:46
Speaker 1: while it's being taken away. Yeah, I'm like, I am,
4:50
Speaker 1: I am silencing you to protect free speech, like those
4:54
Speaker 1: are opposites, sir.
4:56
Speaker 2: Yeah. Literally, Trump the other day during a press conference,
4:59
Speaker 2: said we took their free speech away, like talk about
5:02
Speaker 2: flag burning. So like, you know, yeah, let's just you know,
5:05
Speaker 2: call speed a speed.
5:06
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, free speech for people who say things that
5:09
Speaker 1: I like and no speech for people who don't say
5:11
Speaker 1: things I like.
5:12
Speaker 2: And that's yeah, free speech for me, but not for
5:14
Speaker 2: the you know.
5:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly right anyway, so rip free speech, spooky. Yeah,
5:22
Speaker 1: We're going to keep making this podcast and making fun
5:24
Speaker 1: of the jerks that ruin everything and mostly talking about psychology,
5:28
Speaker 1: but periodically making fun of the jerks that ruin in
5:30
Speaker 1: everything because they deserve it, because they suck and they
5:33
Speaker 1: ruin everything.
5:33
Speaker 2: Yeah.
5:34
Speaker 1: Anyway, we are not actually talking about them, not at
5:37
Speaker 1: least deliberately intentionally right this moment, although we'll probably find
5:41
Speaker 1: our way there. Yeah, as we're proceeding through this discussion,
5:45
Speaker 1: because we're talking about Halloween masks, and these are a
5:49
Speaker 1: this whole idea of halloween masks. This is a rich
5:53
Speaker 1: area stimulating topic for many psychologists who really see this
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Speaker 1: as an opportunity to superimpose their brand of beliefs and
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Speaker 1: their sort of stamp of conjecture about identity onto a
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Speaker 1: broad cultural activity.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm really looking forward to unpacking why I dressed
6:11
Speaker 2: up like Doctor Evil when I was thirteen years old
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Speaker 2: and what that means psychologically. You know, sure, sure, why not?
6:20
Speaker 2: So today we're going to discuss what many psychologists have
6:22
Speaker 2: said about Halloween masks, what we think they got wrong,
6:25
Speaker 2: and what they did get right. In that last part's
6:27
Speaker 2: gonna be a little bit shorter, but we're gonna we're
6:29
Speaker 2: gonna unpack it a little bit because it is kind
6:30
Speaker 2: of a fascinating thing. It's fascinating that people are so
6:33
Speaker 2: fascinated by it.
6:34
Speaker 1: I guess yeah that Actually, maybe that's even more of
6:38
Speaker 1: the angle here, is like why does this tickle you
6:42
Speaker 1: so much? But there's also like I want to take
6:45
Speaker 1: the things that they say and break them down into
6:48
Speaker 1: manageable chunks or into oblivion where and it is appropriate
6:52
Speaker 1: to do so.
6:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like it.
6:54
Speaker 1: Okay, So we should get into our definitions. We are scientists,
6:58
Speaker 1: and we like to define things so that we all
7:00
Speaker 1: understand what it is we are talking about. Masks or
7:04
Speaker 1: masking refers simply to blocking or hiding something from some
7:09
Speaker 1: sort of stimulus input. Right, That's pretty much all it is.
7:12
Speaker 1: It's just it is just blocking or obscuring something in
7:15
Speaker 1: some way. You can mask a bad smell by overwhelming
7:19
Speaker 1: it with another smell. You can mask a room, for example,
7:23
Speaker 1: if you're painting, by using masking tape to block paint
7:27
Speaker 1: from staining unintended surfaces, Like I don't want to paint
7:30
Speaker 1: the door frame or the door. I just want to
7:32
Speaker 1: paint the wall around the door, so you would mask
7:34
Speaker 1: the door. You can wear a mask to help prevent
7:36
Speaker 1: the spread of communicable diseases. They do that a lot
7:40
Speaker 1: in hospitals. You can ask them not to, but they
7:42
Speaker 1: might refuse that. You can mask your thoughts and emotions
7:47
Speaker 1: by portraying them in ways other than how they appear
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Speaker 1: to you. And of course, you can wear a character
7:52
Speaker 1: mask that obscures your identity in the name of Halloween festivities.
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Speaker 1: It makes you look like some kind of ghoul or monster,
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Speaker 1: or more often than not, a minion or some other
8:02
Speaker 1: like character very familiar to us from other like entertainment traditions.
8:08
Speaker 1: But that's what masks are.
8:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, And just to be clear, abrah Hammer's referencing the
8:13
Speaker 2: actual minions and not minions like you know, Igor or
8:17
Speaker 2: Fritz or you know the fun ones.
8:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we he is actually talking to Banana and
8:24
Speaker 1: talk like gibberish. Yeah, Yeah, that's what I'm talking about,
8:27
Speaker 1: those lovable, adorable yellow folks.
8:29
Speaker 2: Yeah. And just so we're clear too, like we are
8:32
Speaker 2: talking about possibly doing an episode on masking in the
8:36
Speaker 2: autistic sense and what that means and some of the
8:38
Speaker 2: impacts of psychological things. We're not talking about that today.
8:40
Speaker 2: We may touch on some of the things related to that,
8:42
Speaker 2: but it's not quite the same in this discussion. So
8:45
Speaker 2: just to kind of like before folks kind of come
8:48
Speaker 2: to us and say, that's not what I'm asking is we
8:49
Speaker 2: are talking about like a different psychological phenomenon here than
8:53
Speaker 2: what's like kind of the currently emerging research and psychology
8:56
Speaker 2: around masking for autistic populations. Sure, yeah, all right, So
9:00
Speaker 2: cultural examples of masks, specifically across cultures, there's so many
9:03
Speaker 2: that we could talk about. Many cultures use mass for
9:05
Speaker 2: a variety of festival activities, As we discussed in the past,
9:09
Speaker 2: the Celtic festival of Sawwen spelled s a m h
9:13
Speaker 2: ai n, which man I tried to learn. I tried
9:16
Speaker 2: to learn Gaelic for a little bit, and like, so
9:19
Speaker 2: many of the letter renunciations are so different, it's very
9:22
Speaker 2: difficult language to learn for me at least.
9:25
Speaker 1: So yeah, heart, if you're a native English speaker to
9:28
Speaker 1: pick up some of that, I think because of yeah,
9:30
Speaker 1: a like has overlap but then does something very different.
9:34
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's why Sean is sea n right. Yeah, So,
9:38
Speaker 2: as we discussed in the past, the Celtic festival of
9:40
Speaker 2: Sawin is a celebration of the end of the harvest
9:43
Speaker 2: and the beginning of winter, and they believe this to
9:45
Speaker 2: be a time where the veil between the living and
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Speaker 2: the dead was blurred, so they wore animals heads and
9:50
Speaker 2: skins to hide from or protect themselves from wandering evil spirits.
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Speaker 2: And these are sort of like proto Halloween masks, which
9:57
Speaker 2: is kind of interesting.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, So there's other specific examples of mask wearing and
10:04
Speaker 1: cultures and celebrations around the world. We're going to pick
10:07
Speaker 1: a few of the most famous ones, so we're not
10:09
Speaker 1: going to enlist everyone's favorite. So if you don't hear years,
10:12
Speaker 1: I apologize, but we're doing sort of a thousand foot
10:15
Speaker 1: view sort of thing. Diadlo s Muertos, which is the
10:18
Speaker 1: Day of the Dead in Mexico, is a celebration that
10:21
Speaker 1: blends Spanish influences and indigenous traditions for the people who
10:25
Speaker 1: were there before they were destroyed by people bringing a
10:28
Speaker 1: lot of disease over the ocean with them. This is
10:31
Speaker 1: a celebration of life and remembrance for those who have passed,
10:35
Speaker 1: and it includes activities such as donninge calacus, which are
10:39
Speaker 1: or neatly decorated skull masks that you'd probably recognize because
10:44
Speaker 1: they all have a very similar sort of thematic and
10:47
Speaker 1: artistic feel to them as they belong to this sort
10:50
Speaker 1: of tradition. Sort of like a Santa hat is so
10:53
Speaker 1: representative of Christmas that you can use that on anything
10:57
Speaker 1: and it will make it look Christmasy. This is sort
11:00
Speaker 1: of how that artistic rendering of this festival is designed.
11:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, a generalization of it you'll probably be familiar with.
11:10
Speaker 2: It's like a sugar skull is sometimes what it's called. Okay,
11:12
Speaker 2: It's like brightly painted, very floral, very bold colors, very
11:16
Speaker 2: bold lines and stuff like that. It's beautiful artwork.
11:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're very cool.
11:20
Speaker 2: Very recognizable when you see it. Kind of like, how
11:23
Speaker 2: like in the middle of a podcast when an ad
11:24
Speaker 2: shows up, you know exactly what that looks like. It's
11:26
Speaker 2: very recognizable. So we're back and we're kind of going
11:37
Speaker 2: over a couple of the more well known uses of
11:39
Speaker 2: masks and cultural traditions. Many African tribal traditions, which may
11:43
Speaker 2: even be older than those Celtic traditions we talked about,
11:47
Speaker 2: often include masks which may represent animals or deities that
11:50
Speaker 2: are important ceremonial or traditional practices. So they'll include those
11:54
Speaker 2: in different types of songs, they'll include it in different
11:57
Speaker 2: types of rituals that they might engage in. So just
11:59
Speaker 2: kind of a unique indigenous type of thing there too.
12:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, And sometimes they're just ceremonials. Sometimes they have
12:07
Speaker 1: some like religious significance. They might represent or even be
12:11
Speaker 1: believed to it be imbued with some kind of power.
12:14
Speaker 1: But that is a tradition. Are there many versions of
12:17
Speaker 1: the traditions that exist. There are sort of a very
12:20
Speaker 1: famous Venetian carnival and that there are these Venetian masks
12:24
Speaker 1: during the carnival in Venice. These are famous examples of
12:28
Speaker 1: masks that, through anonymity, facilitate freedom and transcending social boundaries.
12:34
Speaker 1: So it sort of is the great equalizer. It's like
12:37
Speaker 1: all the people who are an upper class can sort
12:40
Speaker 1: of go down in the middle, the people in the
12:41
Speaker 1: lower can come up to the middle, and everyone's the same.
12:43
Speaker 1: And it's a big socialist celebration where people wear masks
12:47
Speaker 1: and don't know who each other are, and they are
12:49
Speaker 1: very iconic and are easily recognizable.
12:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, for those of you who are Magul listeners, you
12:56
Speaker 2: probably heard that idea of socialist practices and then immediately
12:59
Speaker 2: turned off the But you know, I don't. I can't
13:02
Speaker 2: imagine that there's very many of them.
13:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, they know it's no learning podcasts.
13:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is THEATA. Yeah, I think that's you know,
13:09
Speaker 2: just a couple of cool examples of that. But there
13:11
Speaker 2: are also practical reasons that they use masks, like folks
13:14
Speaker 2: use masks, not just because it's decorative or because it's
13:17
Speaker 2: fun or it's spiritual. So we want to go over
13:19
Speaker 2: a couple of those as well. So the Japanese no
13:22
Speaker 2: theater and oh or no theater uses no mass to
13:26
Speaker 2: depict characters and represent emotions. This allows the actors to
13:29
Speaker 2: fully embody their character and let go of their own identities.
13:33
Speaker 2: Presumably that's going to be a talking point that comes
13:36
Speaker 2: up quite often as we get through the rest of
13:38
Speaker 2: them content.
13:39
Speaker 1: Here, yes, and then of course there's like other situations.
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Speaker 1: There are many countries. The United States is certainly one
13:46
Speaker 1: where we have mascots. There might often in the United
13:49
Speaker 1: States that are for sports teams, but in other traditions
13:51
Speaker 1: in particular or some Asian countries use them to represent
13:55
Speaker 1: like social ideas or policies or values. But these are
14:00
Speaker 1: a large elaborate costumes and masks that have the identity
14:04
Speaker 1: of the wearer be entirely obscured and unavailable most of
14:07
Speaker 1: the time. It is not known as really just the
14:10
Speaker 1: character that matters right in those settings and that actually
14:13
Speaker 1: allows them to then be represented by any person as
14:17
Speaker 1: long as the character is sort of animated and continues
14:20
Speaker 1: to be brought to life by someone.
14:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Theeves and burglars often wear a mask
14:26
Speaker 2: while commenting crimes. Superheroes will often wear masks while superheroing,
14:30
Speaker 2: and ice agents will wear masks while attacking and abusing people,
14:33
Speaker 2: including elderly women and children, because they themselves are wearing
14:36
Speaker 2: them for cowardice reasons.
14:38
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, because they're pathetic because they're bullies.
14:42
Speaker 2: They're pathetic bullies and they're cowards. Yeah, we are now
14:45
Speaker 2: at Abolish Ice podcast, not that we haven't been before,
14:49
Speaker 2: but now we're explicitly saying that.
14:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, and actually I think, you know, they made a
14:54
Speaker 1: really good point that I think wearing the masks actually
14:56
Speaker 1: harms them as much as, like more than just revealing
15:01
Speaker 1: their identities. Because they are scarier. I think people are
15:04
Speaker 1: less willing to recognize their humanity, what little of it
15:08
Speaker 1: there may be. But yeah, it does allow them to
15:11
Speaker 1: hide behind their pretend power that they've been granted.
15:14
Speaker 2: So yeah, all right.
15:16
Speaker 1: There is also emotional masking social masking, which is particularly
15:20
Speaker 1: prevalent among the sort of nerdivergent crowd, although not limited
15:23
Speaker 1: only to that population. We are gonna, as we said,
15:26
Speaker 1: probably tackle this in a more thorough discussion upcoming episode.
15:32
Speaker 1: But this is behaving in a way that is accommodting
15:34
Speaker 1: to social expectations and hiding their quote unquote true identities, thoughts,
15:39
Speaker 1: and feelings. We'll come back to more of a discussion
15:42
Speaker 1: about that a little bit later, but just to touch on, like,
15:45
Speaker 1: as we're sort of enumerating the idea of masks, as
15:49
Speaker 1: they exist, that one was worth at least mentioning and
15:51
Speaker 1: touching on.
15:52
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. Now, as we're getting into the Halloween season,
15:55
Speaker 2: we feel compelled to address questions about what it means
15:57
Speaker 2: to wear a mask on Halloween and to what extent
16:00
Speaker 2: masking for Halloween results and behavior change, and how we
16:03
Speaker 2: might understand that. So first, let's unpact some of the
16:06
Speaker 2: hypotheses proposed for understanding why people wear masks around Halloween
16:10
Speaker 2: and what it does to their behavior, if it changes
16:12
Speaker 2: their behavior at all.
16:13
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I think there's a built in assumption here
16:16
Speaker 1: that it does change behavior, and we'll get into that.
16:19
Speaker 2: Yeah.
16:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's worth like trying to unpack, like what
16:22
Speaker 1: is that thing and how much does it actually happen? Yeah,
16:25
Speaker 1: so getting into why people wear masks and sort of
16:31
Speaker 1: what's the psychological significance of that. There's one hypothesis, and
16:36
Speaker 1: I think even calling a hypothesis is a little generous,
16:38
Speaker 1: but it's a hypothesis, is that wearing masks that depict characters, animals,
16:43
Speaker 1: or public figures, it is a representation of an emotional
16:48
Speaker 1: connection we have to some features of those beans whose
16:52
Speaker 1: mask we're wearing. So for example, we might wear a
16:55
Speaker 1: pirate costume because we envy the freedom of the life
16:58
Speaker 1: of the one operating outside of society in the law,
17:02
Speaker 1: those scaly wag pirates that aren't beholden to normal laws
17:07
Speaker 1: and social niceties. Sure, and we're sort of like, oh,
17:10
Speaker 1: I wish I could be like that. Or if you
17:12
Speaker 1: connect with the idea of being a fun, loving, joyful
17:15
Speaker 1: collectivist slave, you might dress as a minion from the
17:20
Speaker 1: Suspicable Me cartoons. Or if you relate to being an
17:24
Speaker 1: incompetent belinger and bigot who represents a failure of humanity
17:27
Speaker 1: and evolution, you can wear a wispy white blonde wig
17:30
Speaker 1: with a red hat, a suit and tie, and orange
17:32
Speaker 1: skin and that will appropriately embody those values, I guess
17:38
Speaker 1: is the way. Maybe are just traits. Let's just call
17:40
Speaker 1: them traits.
17:41
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, So this idea is dumb and it's
17:44
Speaker 2: actually wrong more often than it is correct. So there
17:46
Speaker 2: might be some people who specifically seek out characters because
17:49
Speaker 2: they because of what they represent, like wearing a guy
17:52
Speaker 2: Fox mask is a socially recognized symbol of rebellion, but
17:55
Speaker 2: they can almost always articulate this, and most of the
17:58
Speaker 2: time people choose a mask costume because of how well
18:01
Speaker 2: they think it is to like it will be it'll
18:04
Speaker 2: work to evoke a favorable social response.
18:07
Speaker 1: Which, like to them might be one where it like
18:09
Speaker 1: gets people going like what are you wearing? And like
18:11
Speaker 1: it gets sort of a little bit of confusion or
18:13
Speaker 1: maybe a little bit of outrage, and like that's what
18:15
Speaker 1: they were going for. But I think most people it's
18:18
Speaker 1: like I look good in this, and so people compliment
18:21
Speaker 1: how I look or I think that I at least
18:23
Speaker 1: look good, or it's like it starts a conversation, and
18:27
Speaker 1: it's like it's not like I might be even making
18:29
Speaker 1: fun of something I don't like, so I'm dressing in
18:31
Speaker 1: a particular way to sort of mock it. But that
18:34
Speaker 1: like people get that, and so they'll engage with me
18:37
Speaker 1: about that sort of thing. Yeah, So like that's a
18:39
Speaker 1: really common way that's going on. So this whole idea
18:42
Speaker 1: that like we commonly wear masks it embodies some like
18:46
Speaker 1: desire we have to me is just like so shallow
18:50
Speaker 1: and like dumb and like useless of an idea. Yeah,
18:53
Speaker 1: it's barely worth entertaining, but it is like a one
18:56
Speaker 1: that people have pitched.
18:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, I particularly enjoy dressing up to get a reaction
19:03
Speaker 2: out of people like sure. And I also like the
19:05
Speaker 2: creative part of coming up with the costume, because I
19:07
Speaker 2: don't know if we've ever taught this on the show.
19:09
Speaker 2: I talked about this on the show. But I never
19:11
Speaker 2: dress up. I pretend to dress up and I come
19:14
Speaker 2: up with some costume where I can just wear the
19:16
Speaker 2: clothes that I'm wearing and that's my costume. But it's like,
19:19
Speaker 2: so as an example, like one year I was a
19:21
Speaker 2: nervous scientist. One year I was Frankie Krueger. I was
19:24
Speaker 2: Freddy Krueger's nicer older brother that would just like apologize
19:28
Speaker 2: for his behavior. I'm so sorry, he's the black sheep,
19:30
Speaker 2: like he just we don't we never really talked to
19:32
Speaker 2: him after he started kind of getting a little bit weird,
19:34
Speaker 2: you know, like I do that. My favorite is still
19:37
Speaker 2: the were wolf who just got back from being a
19:38
Speaker 2: were wolf. So I was just a human and I
19:41
Speaker 2: was like, man, I'm tired.
19:43
Speaker 1: That's pretty that's pretty good. I, on the other hand,
19:47
Speaker 1: like to go very elaborate, large, complex costumes that take
19:51
Speaker 1: time to orchestrate. Yeah, because that's sort of that's my
19:54
Speaker 1: way of exercising my creativity is like I want to
19:57
Speaker 1: like and I really personally like going out side of
20:01
Speaker 1: like pop culture icons. I've been trying to come up
20:04
Speaker 1: with just like random things. Like one year I was
20:05
Speaker 1: an avocado. I was a sliced to avocado and the
20:08
Speaker 1: pit was my belly and it was a very fun costume.
20:11
Speaker 1: And actually it was really convenient because I could tuck
20:13
Speaker 1: inside the costume like a turtle and then like people
20:16
Speaker 1: thought that it was just like a prop that was
20:17
Speaker 1: laying against the wall. It's just an avocado, so that
20:20
Speaker 1: that was fantastic. Yeah. Yeah, but I've you know, I've
20:23
Speaker 1: dressed up as like one time I went as I
20:26
Speaker 1: guess I probably looked like a terminator. That wasn't what
20:27
Speaker 1: I was going for. I was trying to look like
20:29
Speaker 1: a machine that had human skin, and so there are
20:32
Speaker 1: parts where my skin was peeling away and there was
20:34
Speaker 1: a machine underneath that gave it a very terminator look.
20:37
Speaker 2: I like that.
20:37
Speaker 1: Yeah. One year I went is a stained glass window,
20:39
Speaker 1: so my faces painted looked like a stained glass window.
20:42
Speaker 1: So like, I really like going as like non traditional
20:44
Speaker 1: things personally. Yeah, yeah, that's fun anyway, So that's the
20:48
Speaker 1: whole idea that like one reason we wear costumes is
20:51
Speaker 1: to let our and her desires out, or something done
20:55
Speaker 1: like that it's wrong and it doesn't matter. Others suggest
20:57
Speaker 1: instead that masks at Halloween are four of escapism. We
21:01
Speaker 1: wear masks to indulge in another reality where we can
21:04
Speaker 1: shirk our responsibilities, problems and suffering, and we can sort
21:07
Speaker 1: of shake them, shake them off, we can get rid
21:10
Speaker 1: of it, we can at least temporarily abandon that what's
21:13
Speaker 1: going on in sort of escape. I do think that's
21:15
Speaker 1: true for some people. I think it's going to be
21:17
Speaker 1: relatively rare among most costume wears unless they decide to
21:21
Speaker 1: make this their motivation after hearing this episode. But I
21:25
Speaker 1: think that for the most part, a lot of us
21:27
Speaker 1: like there is like an element of novelty to it.
21:31
Speaker 1: But I think the like disappearing into a fantastical role
21:35
Speaker 1: is actually fairly uncommon for people who put on a costume.
21:38
Speaker 1: I don't really think that's a motivation or experience that
21:40
Speaker 1: they have a lot of the time.
21:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, unless it's unless we're talking about somebody
21:43
Speaker 2: who does this often and throughout the year, like it's usually.
21:46
Speaker 2: I can't imagine like just one time a year they're
21:49
Speaker 2: just like I'm gonna do this because like they're like
21:51
Speaker 2: I would imagine it's maybe something that they might engage
21:53
Speaker 2: in pretty regularly. So I think that that's maybe an
21:55
Speaker 2: important aspect of this too.
21:58
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I think if escape is a powerful enough
22:01
Speaker 1: motivator that they're willing to alter their appearance substantially so
22:04
Speaker 1: that they can't be identified, my guess is they do
22:07
Speaker 1: it a lot. Like I think once a year is
22:09
Speaker 1: an insufficient outlet for that kind of like impulse. Yeah,
22:13
Speaker 1: if that's what you're looking for, So probably they're quite
22:16
Speaker 1: frequently obscuring themselves. But yeah, I don't think this is
22:20
Speaker 1: very common for people who are just trying to dress
22:22
Speaker 1: up for the holiday.
22:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I don't think so either. Okay, so normally
22:27
Speaker 2: this is the spot where we have another ad break,
22:29
Speaker 2: but our ads have run out and what's moved in
22:31
Speaker 2: as a Spirit Halloween. So here's like a Spirit Halloween
22:33
Speaker 2: ad break of sorts.
22:35
Speaker 1: Oh I hope. So, speaking of escapism, you've escaped the
22:46
Speaker 1: ad break and we're back. We're continuing our discussion around
22:50
Speaker 1: hypotheses and ideas of why people wear masks and that
22:54
Speaker 1: what effect that might have in some cases.
22:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, So Another ipothsist that's about masks suggest that masks
23:01
Speaker 2: create a novel social environment in which we receive unique
23:04
Speaker 2: reactions from people around us. It levels the social playing
23:07
Speaker 2: field so that we may not necessarily be recognized as
23:10
Speaker 2: belonging to any particular station or class in life, and
23:13
Speaker 2: in doing so, people react to us differently than we
23:15
Speaker 2: do when we're unmasked, partially through a lack of social
23:18
Speaker 2: history and possibly through a shared interest in masks in
23:21
Speaker 2: halloween costumes. Possibly also because masks can be a conversation
23:24
Speaker 2: catalyst that sparks discussions between two people that may have
23:27
Speaker 2: otherwise struggled to find something to talk about with one another.
23:30
Speaker 2: So it's kind of like a great social equalizer in
23:32
Speaker 2: some situations.
23:33
Speaker 1: Yep, I want to come back to that one a
23:35
Speaker 1: little bit. Kind of yeah, but yeah, all right. Another
23:40
Speaker 1: hypothesis hypothesis, I can say that word.
23:43
Speaker 2: That's a word you say so you often I do.
23:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, It's like I feel like it was weird for
23:47
Speaker 1: me to struggle with it all of a sudden. It's
23:49
Speaker 1: not usually a problem anyway. It suggests that masks allow
23:52
Speaker 1: us to behave in a way that is inconsistent with
23:54
Speaker 1: our usual patterns. Of behavior. The process of stripping ourselves
23:59
Speaker 1: of our identity in our sense of responsibility and being
24:02
Speaker 1: able to camouflage slash blend in. This is called d individualization.
24:08
Speaker 1: There's a whole word for it, and that's this idea
24:11
Speaker 1: here that like is it allows us to completely step
24:14
Speaker 1: away because we are no longer identifiable as ourselves, and
24:19
Speaker 1: the anonymity of the mask allows us to sort of play,
24:22
Speaker 1: if you will, with different personalities, behavioral traits, and social
24:26
Speaker 1: engagements without being beholden to the long term consequences of
24:30
Speaker 1: violating usual expectations for our behavior at least, so like
24:35
Speaker 1: behaving in a way that is out of character for
24:37
Speaker 1: how most people are used to you behaving. If you
24:40
Speaker 1: do that while wearing a mask, then it's like not
24:43
Speaker 1: something they'll necessarily question to be like, well, you're kind
24:46
Speaker 1: of playing a character. You're sort of hamming it up
24:48
Speaker 1: for the role, and there's there's allows you to be
24:53
Speaker 1: flexible in how you behave in those situations, which, as
24:58
Speaker 1: I said, there's a sort of d individualization idea that's
25:01
Speaker 1: thrown in here as a word that's supposed to mean something.
25:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense. Now, this idea was explored in
25:08
Speaker 2: a couple of Landmark and Offen sited studies in nineteen
25:10
Speaker 2: seventy six and nineteen seventy nine. The first study by
25:13
Speaker 2: Deani Frasier, Beaman and Kellem, published in the Journal of
25:16
Speaker 2: Personality and Social Psychology, observed over thirteen hundred trick or
25:20
Speaker 2: treating children. They set up one of those take one
25:23
Speaker 2: candy bowl situations and sent children to the bowl.
25:26
Speaker 1: Yes, it's like one candy per visit was the idea. Yeah, yeah,
25:30
Speaker 1: but yeah, there were a couple of conditions that they
25:32
Speaker 1: had going on. They had so they sent children over
25:35
Speaker 1: to this they were like observing them in a way
25:37
Speaker 1: that they didn't know they were being observed. And they
25:39
Speaker 1: sent children who were wearing a mask and they were
25:41
Speaker 1: not asking any personally identified information. There were children who
25:45
Speaker 1: were wearing a mask but had been asked personally identified
25:47
Speaker 1: information like their name and where they lived. And then
25:50
Speaker 1: they had both of those conditions but with groups. So
25:52
Speaker 1: they had masked and unmasked groups and groups that had
25:57
Speaker 1: questions asked of them and not and then they all
26:00
Speaker 1: so added a bonus follow up condition that they had
26:02
Speaker 1: a mirror present over the bowl, so that they had
26:05
Speaker 1: to look at themselves while they stole candy.
26:07
Speaker 2: Okay, interesting, Yeah, so the report of the children were
26:11
Speaker 2: more likely to quote unquote steal an extra candy from
26:14
Speaker 2: the candy dish if they were in a group, and
26:16
Speaker 2: if they were wearing masks. They were more likely to
26:19
Speaker 2: steal candy if they remained anonymous, like had not had
26:21
Speaker 2: any personal information questions answered, if they were wearing a mask,
26:25
Speaker 2: and if they were in a group. And they concluded
26:27
Speaker 2: that deindividualization was to blame.
26:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was their whole idea, is like, because they
26:33
Speaker 1: think that we don't know who they are, and they
26:35
Speaker 1: can hide behind their mask and they have a group
26:37
Speaker 1: of people who are more or less showing them that's okay.
26:40
Speaker 1: That lack of individualization means that they're then more likely
26:44
Speaker 1: to steal is how they sort of wrapped that up
26:47
Speaker 1: and tried to sell it. Okay.
26:49
Speaker 2: Yeah.
26:49
Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy nine they conducted a follow up study
26:52
Speaker 1: with one of the original authors, Beaman, But now the
26:54
Speaker 1: study is also featuring Clenson's vonum not that I don't
26:59
Speaker 1: know if I pronounce those correct, but those are the
27:01
Speaker 1: other authors on it. And they conducted two studies to
27:04
Speaker 1: evaluate the effect of what they called self awareness in
27:08
Speaker 1: the likelihood that children would steal Halloween candy. And this
27:11
Speaker 1: is related to the idea of putting up the mirror. Zich,
27:13
Speaker 1: how self aware are you and does that affect the
27:17
Speaker 1: extent to which you're willing to take more candy than
27:19
Speaker 1: you have been allotted.
27:21
Speaker 2: Yeah. So this study uses similar trigger trading paradigm as
27:24
Speaker 2: the nineteen seventy six study, and in this iteration, the
27:26
Speaker 2: authors placed a mirror behind the candy bowl to see
27:28
Speaker 2: if quote self awareness influenced the decision to steal candies.
27:32
Speaker 2: In the first experiment, three hundred and sixty three children
27:34
Speaker 2: who were anonymous were more likely to steal an extra candy.
27:37
Speaker 2: Children who had revealed personal identifying information were less likely
27:41
Speaker 2: to steal, and this was mostly among older children, as
27:45
Speaker 2: there was little or no effect to younger children. So
27:47
Speaker 2: they replicated this with three hundred and forty nine subjects
27:50
Speaker 2: in a second experiment in the same paper, and they
27:53
Speaker 2: argue that self awareness i e. A mirror and a
27:56
Speaker 2: lack of anonymity were the cause of the decrease in stealing.
28:00
Speaker 2: So basically, they could see themselves and we knew who
28:03
Speaker 2: they were.
28:04
Speaker 1: Yeah. To me, I read this and like to be fair,
28:08
Speaker 1: I kind of had just cursory skim though I didn't
28:10
Speaker 1: get into the nuts and bolts of the whole thing.
28:12
Speaker 1: But to me, I felt what it sounded like they
28:15
Speaker 1: landed on was like them having their personal ID, like
28:19
Speaker 1: it personally identified information known was really common and related
28:24
Speaker 1: to them not stealing, and like, then if you put
28:26
Speaker 1: a mirror up, they also don't steal. And I was like,
28:28
Speaker 1: the mirror feels pretty secondary to me and how this
28:32
Speaker 1: has arranged, and I feel like you're imbuing it with
28:34
Speaker 1: a lot of magical properties in terms of what the
28:37
Speaker 1: mirror is supposed to do. I'm like, often enough I'll
28:41
Speaker 1: pass by a mirror and I won't even look at
28:42
Speaker 1: that mirror, And so like, are we clear that there
28:45
Speaker 1: was any meaningful orientation to the mirror, and even if
28:48
Speaker 1: there was, does that actually mean anything about how they
28:51
Speaker 1: feel about anything?
28:53
Speaker 2: I don't know.
28:54
Speaker 1: It's sort of like there's those diets that has people
28:56
Speaker 1: like eating a mirror so that they experience shame while
28:58
Speaker 1: they're eating, so that they'll eat less, And I was like,
29:01
Speaker 1: the mess up my knowledge? Those don't work very well,
29:03
Speaker 1: So I like, I don't I don't think and it's
29:06
Speaker 1: not like this has been employed anywhere or really followed
29:09
Speaker 1: up with. So I kind of feel like this was
29:11
Speaker 1: a one and done. We didn't really get a robust
29:14
Speaker 1: outcome sort of thing, right, but that was how they
29:16
Speaker 1: tried to spend it at least.
29:17
Speaker 2: Sure, Okay, Anyway.
29:19
Speaker 1: Taken together, these studies popularize the idea that wearing a
29:23
Speaker 1: mask changes our behavior and perhaps reveals our behavior, our
29:27
Speaker 1: inner behavior. Is that who we would who we would
29:29
Speaker 1: be if if we could just be anonymous, That we're unscrupulous, dangerous, selfish,
29:34
Speaker 1: and possibly do illegal things. And that was sort of
29:38
Speaker 1: that was an idea that was sort of born out
29:40
Speaker 1: of this these couple of studies here.
29:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, so basically, yeah, you're wearing a mask, and you
29:46
Speaker 2: are going to do bad things when you wear a
29:48
Speaker 2: mask because you don't ask because of the consequences, or
29:52
Speaker 2: are lesser because nobody knows who you are, or a
29:54
Speaker 2: lock thereof yees. So, but let's let's unpack this a
29:56
Speaker 2: little bit. Here's the big reveal of all this stuff, right,
30:00
Speaker 2: So let's elaborate on the unique nature of our social circumstances.
30:03
Speaker 2: We are a cooperative social species. We essentially depend on
30:07
Speaker 2: each other from cradle to grave across the board. We
30:10
Speaker 2: need people, we need interactions. Part of how we interact
30:13
Speaker 2: with each other is that we have assigned identities to
30:16
Speaker 2: one another through names that we can use to individualize
30:18
Speaker 2: ourselves as well as find specific people for praise or
30:21
Speaker 2: condemnation or some other reason.
30:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, so anonymity, the whole idea of anonymity. It only
30:29
Speaker 1: matters because we can have an identity, and we can
30:32
Speaker 1: use our identity to like track people and keep like
30:36
Speaker 1: differentiate them, and because our language enables us to clearly
30:40
Speaker 1: identify ourselves as individuals among our communities. So like, I
30:45
Speaker 1: am not my community, but I am me although I
30:47
Speaker 1: am a part of this community. You must first have
30:50
Speaker 1: a concept that there's such a thing as me and
30:53
Speaker 1: such a thing as you, and that those are two
30:55
Speaker 1: different things. And like that sounds like a given, but
31:00
Speaker 1: it seems to be fairly unique to humans. Yeah, that
31:04
Speaker 1: like you can. I think the alternative is there's only
31:07
Speaker 1: an eye, and I live in this world and there's
31:10
Speaker 1: a world around me. But it doesn't really matter because
31:12
Speaker 1: there's eye and that's it. But like I think otherwise
31:15
Speaker 1: you can have this, Oh, there's also a you, and
31:18
Speaker 1: you have an eye that's not my eye. That's different
31:21
Speaker 1: because you are yourself and I am myself, and although
31:25
Speaker 1: we work together here, we do have we are different people,
31:28
Speaker 1: and we can distinguish each other from from one one
31:31
Speaker 1: another right, and that that distinction is meaningful. And I
31:34
Speaker 1: can then understand that what you see and me and
31:37
Speaker 1: what I see and you can be compatible comparable things
31:41
Speaker 1: and understanding how we think about each other. And that's again,
31:45
Speaker 1: seems like it's an easy, obvious thing, but it seems
31:48
Speaker 1: like humans are the only ones who do it quite
31:50
Speaker 1: the way into the extent to which we do it right.
31:52
Speaker 2: So imagine if you train your dog to tolerate wearing
31:55
Speaker 2: a Halloween mask. First, adorable, like just the best. I
32:00
Speaker 2: have a weader dog and she has a hot dog
32:02
Speaker 2: costume and it's hell nice.
32:04
Speaker 1: That's amazing, it's adorable.
32:05
Speaker 2: Now, would we expect your dog to change his behavior
32:08
Speaker 2: in some radical, nefarious way because it's wearing a mask,
32:11
Speaker 2: only in that it would likely receive a lot of
32:13
Speaker 2: high quality attention for being uniquely dressed in the Halloween costume. Otherwise,
32:16
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter to your dog. It has no concept
32:19
Speaker 2: that it can hide its identity by obscuring the visual
32:21
Speaker 2: features of its face. It just is there and it's
32:24
Speaker 2: enjoying its pop cup.
32:27
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I think we've talked about before how like
32:30
Speaker 1: visuals not really the sensory modality that's most relevant to dogs,
32:33
Speaker 1: But that's kind of beside the point. The point is
32:36
Speaker 1: simply that like them, wearing a mask is not going
32:39
Speaker 1: to change their behavior because they don't. We don't have
32:42
Speaker 1: any reason to think that they think that you can
32:45
Speaker 1: recognize that they look different and that they'refull, you'll think
32:49
Speaker 1: differently about them, and that that means something at all.
32:53
Speaker 1: And the reason I think that's important to bring up
32:56
Speaker 1: is to again understand there's something unique about the social
33:00
Speaker 1: language nature of this, the social and cultural aspect of this.
33:04
Speaker 1: So starting then with the understanding, we need to have
33:07
Speaker 1: an idea that we can identify ourselves as unique and
33:11
Speaker 1: belonging to a group, that our identity can be readily
33:15
Speaker 1: identified by the group, that they can say that is Abraham,
33:19
Speaker 1: that's that person over there, I know that person, and
33:22
Speaker 1: that that means something, and that the group uses identity,
33:26
Speaker 1: my name, your name, et cetera to bestow recognition and
33:29
Speaker 1: praise and for detaining condemnation as it relates to our
33:34
Speaker 1: behaviors and that we understand that if we change, if
33:37
Speaker 1: we change something important about the salient features of our appearance,
33:41
Speaker 1: people might treat us differently and may not be able
33:44
Speaker 1: to later identify us even if we were to commit
33:47
Speaker 1: some transgression. So I know that was kind of a
33:50
Speaker 1: sort of long, befuddled way to say that. But the
33:54
Speaker 1: point I'm trying to make here is that, like, let's
33:57
Speaker 1: actually acknowledge that what's going on here is that's important
34:01
Speaker 1: is that we are in a social group where we
34:04
Speaker 1: use recognition and our names as identifiers to engage in
34:11
Speaker 1: the sort of social contracts that we have. Yeah, and
34:14
Speaker 1: that one we can we understand that when we block
34:16
Speaker 1: those identifiers, that someone might feel like they no longer
34:22
Speaker 1: are beholden to that social contract. In the same way, Well, it's.
34:25
Speaker 2: Kind of like how advertisers will hide their identities so
34:29
Speaker 2: they can get away with showing another ad.
34:38
Speaker 1: All Right, we're back, I will say, at least on TV.
34:41
Speaker 1: I don't know if I've heard this on podcasts as much,
34:43
Speaker 1: but fragrances have the weirdest ads. It's they're just so bizarre.
34:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they always have a strange name. It's always
34:52
Speaker 2: like tuberculosis by Gucci.
34:56
Speaker 1: Oh no, Like it's always you know, it's alway yourself
34:59
Speaker 1: with the Jesus. It's always something like that.
35:03
Speaker 2: It's like something where it's like just like a completely
35:05
Speaker 2: unrelated name to a scent that like maybe has like
35:09
Speaker 2: I don't know, pints of oak. And then it's like,
35:13
Speaker 2: you know, got some random actor or actress like this
35:17
Speaker 2: random person that is like hawking it. You know, it's like,
35:20
Speaker 2: you know, Tom Cruise shows up and it's like clear
35:24
Speaker 2: by scientology, that's really good.
35:32
Speaker 1: Oh man, you got me pretty good at that one.
35:34
Speaker 2: Okay, So okay, all right, back to masks. So right
35:39
Speaker 2: now we're talking about the social engagement hypothesis, and that
35:42
Speaker 2: social engagement hypothesis is is pretty accurate and a significant
35:45
Speaker 2: chunk of the conversation. That is, when we wear masks
35:48
Speaker 2: and we wear costumes, people around us treat us differently,
35:51
Speaker 2: which shapes some of our behaviors in that moment.
35:55
Speaker 1: It does. And like we may not be explicitly thinking
35:58
Speaker 1: about being able to get away with crime when we're
36:00
Speaker 1: dressed up for Halloween. Some of us probably think about that,
36:03
Speaker 1: but like not most of us. But I think it's
36:05
Speaker 1: more useful to think about the fact that we understand
36:09
Speaker 1: that there are rules which imply that there are some
36:12
Speaker 1: aversive consequences for violating those rules. But if you dangle
36:17
Speaker 1: a pretty desirable reward, offer few expectations around that, and
36:21
Speaker 1: make an excessive amount of that reward available, some may
36:24
Speaker 1: take the opportunity to gain an additional reward. If there
36:28
Speaker 1: is a decreased likelihood that any observers will be able
36:31
Speaker 1: to even identify the individual responsible for the transgression, we
36:35
Speaker 1: might even kind of expect this a little bit. So
36:38
Speaker 1: I guess what I'm trying to say here in a
36:39
Speaker 1: lot more plain terms, is like, if we think we
36:43
Speaker 1: can get away with doing something that we'd much rather do,
36:47
Speaker 1: or like get access to something we'd really like to
36:49
Speaker 1: get access to, and the barrier for doing so is
36:52
Speaker 1: like honor system, please don't, And like we also have
36:56
Speaker 1: kind of made it so it's really unlikely someone will
36:59
Speaker 1: be able to idents later. Then it's like I kind
37:03
Speaker 1: of expect people to take advantage of that system. Yeah,
37:06
Speaker 1: you know, they're like, here's a bunch of free stuff,
37:08
Speaker 1: but plays only take one And you're like, yeah, but
37:11
Speaker 1: you don't even know who I am and you can't
37:13
Speaker 1: find me later, So I'm gonna go ahead and take five, right,
37:17
Speaker 1: and no one's gonna be the wiser, And like, I
37:20
Speaker 1: very much understand that, you know what I mean.
37:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred percent.
37:24
Speaker 1: You know.
37:24
Speaker 2: Another part of the conversation, too, is that some of
37:26
Speaker 2: us wouldn't violate any of the rules even if we
37:28
Speaker 2: thought we or we knew we could get away with it,
37:31
Speaker 2: which is actually a more interesting phenomenon than people engaging
37:34
Speaker 2: in less self restraint, Like the idea of like under
37:37
Speaker 2: certain conditions where anonymity exists, Like, what is it that
37:40
Speaker 2: is preventing somebody from doing, like, from breaking the rule
37:44
Speaker 2: that's established when they are completely anonymous? Like what is
37:47
Speaker 2: that phenomenon looking like? And I think that is arguably
37:50
Speaker 2: a more fascinating thing that humans do.
37:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think it's it's kind of cool to
37:54
Speaker 1: talk about, like someone who is even when the prevailing
37:57
Speaker 1: circumstances are you could get this thing for free and
38:00
Speaker 1: no one would stop you or like come after you later. Yeah,
38:03
Speaker 1: and you're like, I still won't do it, Like that's
38:05
Speaker 1: that's like a fascinating thing to dig into, not the
38:08
Speaker 1: fact that like someone would try and get away it.
38:10
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, of course they would. Why wouldn't they,
38:12
Speaker 1: Like an animal will do that, Everyone's gonna do that.
38:13
Speaker 1: That's just like we're all like evolutionarily, it makes sense
38:17
Speaker 1: to try and get what you can when you can,
38:19
Speaker 1: So finding back against that is kind of the more
38:21
Speaker 1: interesting question to answer. Yeah, but anyway, this does bring
38:25
Speaker 1: us back to the discussion about the true self thing,
38:28
Speaker 1: which I just think is not a very useful way
38:33
Speaker 1: of framing this. Here's the thing about this, like this
38:37
Speaker 1: whole idea of presenting your true self or what your
38:39
Speaker 1: true self really is. And I hear this, We've talked
38:41
Speaker 1: about this before, I think, but this idea of like
38:44
Speaker 1: when you are backed into a corner, that's where you
38:47
Speaker 1: show who you really are. I'm like, when you're your
38:49
Speaker 1: most desperate, the most like unfamiliar desperate circumstance you have
38:54
Speaker 1: never been in, that you have no contact with, that
38:56
Speaker 1: you're like now just in a moment that's trying to
38:59
Speaker 1: get out of some extremely terrible situation. That's who you
39:03
Speaker 1: really are. Why that doesn't make it. That's like the
39:05
Speaker 1: rarest version of anything you would ever do. Actually, if
39:08
Speaker 1: you were ever in that situation again, you'd probably behave
39:10
Speaker 1: differently because you have learned how to navigate that more
39:13
Speaker 1: effectively given the intensity of it. So like, that's it's
39:16
Speaker 1: just insane anyway, this whole idea of true self. The
39:19
Speaker 1: thing I have about this is like, let's say you're
39:22
Speaker 1: changing who you are to present a true self, if
39:25
Speaker 1: you're making a deliberate choice, like I know I'm doing this,
39:28
Speaker 1: I'm changing this self to present yourself in a particular way.
39:32
Speaker 1: The idea that is obscuring your true self. I'm like,
39:36
Speaker 1: I would argue that that choice, that decision to present
39:39
Speaker 1: yourself in the way that does reflect who you are. Yeah,
39:42
Speaker 1: it's the fact that how you like to be received
39:44
Speaker 1: by your audience, rather than being someone who's like completely unfiltered.
39:49
Speaker 1: They're like, I just say whatever pops in my mind.
39:52
Speaker 1: I'm like, your behaviors make up your personality, and if
39:55
Speaker 1: self restraint is a behavior, so that therefore engaging in
39:59
Speaker 1: self for straint shows who you are, Like your knee
40:03
Speaker 1: jerk reaction to something is not a good representation of
40:09
Speaker 1: who you are. Particularly if you stop for a minute
40:11
Speaker 1: and you're like, hold on, I've had a second to
40:13
Speaker 1: think about this, I actually change my opinion or my
40:16
Speaker 1: thought or my reaction because they're right, like that that
40:19
Speaker 1: I would do the same thing in their shoes, Like
40:21
Speaker 1: I totally get it. Or alternatively, like that doesn't seem
40:24
Speaker 1: like a big deal. Oh wait, actually not, I think
40:25
Speaker 1: about that. That is a really big deal. I need
40:27
Speaker 1: to be more like upset about this. I've had both
40:29
Speaker 1: of those situations happen. So like this idea that you
40:33
Speaker 1: filter and like you're like I want to present in
40:36
Speaker 1: such a way that this has a positive effect on
40:38
Speaker 1: my audience and like that's not who I really am.
40:41
Speaker 1: I'm like, yes, it is. You just made a choice
40:44
Speaker 1: that you made that choice. You did it, so like
40:47
Speaker 1: that is who you are and that's okay, Like that's
40:49
Speaker 1: that's not something that we should say. Is like there's
40:51
Speaker 1: nothing wrong with that. We are going to be doing
40:54
Speaker 1: some amount of editing here, and like having a filter,
40:57
Speaker 1: I think is a good thing. Like we see people
41:00
Speaker 1: in power that do not have a filter, and we
41:02
Speaker 1: see how horrendous it is. Yeah, belligerent, xenophobic, homophobic, narcissistic,
41:10
Speaker 1: like completely full of bullsh presentation of what it looks
41:14
Speaker 1: like to have no filter. Like that is an unenviable position.
41:17
Speaker 1: I do not want to be that way myself. No,
41:20
Speaker 1: So like if you take a second to think about
41:22
Speaker 1: how you want to react to something. I think that
41:24
Speaker 1: is being your true self.
41:25
Speaker 2: That's good. Do that, Yeah, do that? Yeah? Exactly. So
41:30
Speaker 2: I think there's maybe something to say here, which is that,
41:32
Speaker 2: you know, we all change our behavior to work as
41:33
Speaker 2: effectively as possible in any given context. We might choose
41:36
Speaker 2: not to swear around young children or our parents, we
41:38
Speaker 2: self selected do that. We might choose not to talk
41:41
Speaker 2: about our sex lives with our coworkers, again, completely self selected.
41:44
Speaker 2: And would you argue that this is masking who we
41:46
Speaker 2: are in these situations. I don't necessarily think so. I
41:50
Speaker 2: think it's different than what we talked about earlier, with
41:52
Speaker 2: like autistic masking and stuff like that. What we're doing
41:54
Speaker 2: is we're responding to prevailing circumstances. We have audience control
41:58
Speaker 2: over our verbal behavior in our thoughts, right, and we
42:00
Speaker 2: just accordingly in a manner that works best for us
42:02
Speaker 2: and for that situation. And this doesn't necessarily imply that
42:06
Speaker 2: there are psychological demands related to that. We would also
42:09
Speaker 2: like to ask how those who claim to be masking
42:12
Speaker 2: would behave differently in those situations. And so those folks
42:15
Speaker 2: that are kind of doing that, that are kind of
42:16
Speaker 2: like just kind of haphazard talking about it versus like
42:20
Speaker 2: people who might experience that they can't We're kind of
42:23
Speaker 2: talking about this before the show started. It is like
42:25
Speaker 2: there's a difference between like me walking into a space
42:28
Speaker 2: and self selecting topics to engage in social situations. Right, Like,
42:31
Speaker 2: if I'm talking about music, I'm going to select self
42:34
Speaker 2: select how much music I'm going to talk about because
42:36
Speaker 2: like for me, music is my special interest. Yeah, so
42:38
Speaker 2: like in music and books, I'll talk about them all day,
42:40
Speaker 2: but I'll self select, And like there's no psychological distress
42:43
Speaker 2: as a result of that for me because I'm not
42:44
Speaker 2: hiding anything other than like a topic or something like that.
42:47
Speaker 2: But for folks that have a diagnosis that they're hiding,
42:49
Speaker 2: like key features of a diagnosis, or people that belong
42:52
Speaker 2: to particular demographics and they're hiding key features of that,
42:55
Speaker 2: or acting a certain way that is not within their
42:58
Speaker 2: normal behavior range or they're identified behavior range, like those
43:01
Speaker 2: are those have different psychological effects versus like me going like, Okay,
43:04
Speaker 2: I'm not going to talk about cursed or isis at
43:08
Speaker 2: work because everybody's gonna think that I am angry because
43:11
Speaker 2: I listen to a loud music, right. That's there's a
43:13
Speaker 2: difference between that and going like I have to act
43:16
Speaker 2: a certain way socially because even though like like for example,
43:20
Speaker 2: like somebody who's autistic and masking might say, like, I'm
43:22
Speaker 2: not going to stem in this space because if I stem,
43:25
Speaker 2: then they're gonna think I'm weird. So I'm going to
43:27
Speaker 2: suppress a behavior that is important for me in this space.
43:31
Speaker 2: And that's and that's a different type of masking that
43:33
Speaker 2: we're kind of like unpacking here a little bit.
43:35
Speaker 1: And as I said, we'll probably get to get that
43:37
Speaker 1: at some conversation at some point. I do think that
43:39
Speaker 1: I would I would still make the case that that
43:41
Speaker 1: is as true a representation of who they are as
43:44
Speaker 1: them engaging in stimming. But again that that's that's me
43:47
Speaker 1: having beef with the word true, right, and like how
43:50
Speaker 1: that's being used here. But yeah, no, I think the
43:53
Speaker 1: the whole idea of like if you were to say, like, well,
43:56
Speaker 1: that's not really how I feel, like, I'm sort of
43:58
Speaker 1: that's not how I really feel about this. I'm just
43:59
Speaker 1: speaking and through a filter, I'm like, what would you
44:01
Speaker 1: have actually done differently here? Though, Like I'm really curious,
44:04
Speaker 1: like you're like, no, actually, I really want to just
44:07
Speaker 1: insult the crap out of this person to their face.
44:09
Speaker 1: I'm like really really, like that's what, Like, hold on,
44:13
Speaker 1: you would actually do that? I kind of want to
44:16
Speaker 1: see now, Like I want to see if you actually
44:18
Speaker 1: would go through with that, cause like I don't think
44:19
Speaker 1: you would. I'm like, we have these moments where, like
44:21
Speaker 1: the things we say about other drivers when we're in
44:24
Speaker 1: our car, if we were face to face with that person,
44:26
Speaker 1: most of the time, we wouldn't say those things, like
44:29
Speaker 1: to be like I think, rather than having like a
44:31
Speaker 1: litany of criticisms, I'd be like what the fuck man,
44:35
Speaker 1: and you know, like start there where it's like I'm
44:38
Speaker 1: not really making any specific accusations, and like I think
44:40
Speaker 1: we can both acknowledge the situation is bad and now
44:43
Speaker 1: we talk about it. And so anyway, I'm like I
44:45
Speaker 1: kind of think that the people who claim this like, oh,
44:48
Speaker 1: it's just it's just a filter. I'm just like, yeah,
44:50
Speaker 1: but like, what would you actually have done? I feel
44:52
Speaker 1: like you're actually doing the thing. You're just doing the
44:55
Speaker 1: thing like that you were going to do. So I
44:57
Speaker 1: take umbrage with the with that idea that they're that
45:00
Speaker 1: they're really doing anything significantly out of character for them,
45:04
Speaker 1: but that it does come back to again sort of
45:06
Speaker 1: the true and then just being cognizant of our social situation.
45:10
Speaker 1: And you know, I think there are some people who
45:13
Speaker 1: maybe probably struggle to understand is this an appropriate time
45:17
Speaker 1: for me to bring up this particular topic, And like
45:20
Speaker 1: I think that is a skill, Like you learned that
45:21
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, maybe I probably shouldn't make this joke
45:24
Speaker 1: right now to this audience. Like I know that I
45:26
Speaker 1: like to get a laugh and that makes me feel
45:28
Speaker 1: good and I like to feel like I'm funny, but
45:30
Speaker 1: like I know that, like also this group, that's probably
45:32
Speaker 1: not the best thing time to bring this up, So
45:35
Speaker 1: I shouldn't even mention that we have to play an ad. Okay,
45:45
Speaker 1: we are back. I actually think that we more or
45:47
Speaker 1: less addressed what we wanted to say about Halloween masks.
45:49
Speaker 1: Is there anything that you like to add before we
45:52
Speaker 1: get to our next part.
45:53
Speaker 2: I think I would say, uh, you know, it's not
45:55
Speaker 2: that deep, like it's people like people like it's mass deep,
46:00
Speaker 2: like it's it's very service level as far as like
46:02
Speaker 2: wearing Halloween massly people enjoy it. It's part of certain traditions,
46:05
Speaker 2: like it's really not anything to do with your in
46:09
Speaker 2: your ego, your super ego, like nothing like that, like
46:12
Speaker 2: it doesn't it just it's just it's just a thing
46:14
Speaker 2: that people enjoy doing for social reasons more than anything
46:18
Speaker 2: or spiritual reasons. And that's it.
46:20
Speaker 1: Fair, fair, all right, very good. Well, if you are
46:23
Speaker 1: joining us for the first time, then something we like
46:26
Speaker 1: to do at the end of our discussions is we
46:27
Speaker 1: give some recommendations. Sometimes those are related to our topic
46:30
Speaker 1: and sometimes they're not. But we are in spooky season,
46:33
Speaker 1: so there's a good chance that they will be at
46:34
Speaker 1: least some of the time. So we are going to
46:36
Speaker 1: recommend some things. And that's really fun and I think
46:39
Speaker 1: that that's uh, that's why we're all here. Actually, yeah,
46:42
Speaker 1: before we do that, we do have some credits to
46:44
Speaker 1: get through, So i'd like to let you know that
46:46
Speaker 1: if you'd like to support our show, one way you
46:48
Speaker 1: can do that is by leaving a rating and review.
46:50
Speaker 1: It costs you nothing but a little time. Ratings, you
46:52
Speaker 1: can just click those five stars and be done. If
46:54
Speaker 1: you're feeling really ambitious, you can also write some very
46:56
Speaker 1: nice compliments and it really helps us. If you like
46:59
Speaker 1: the show to get us out to more people, Like
47:02
Speaker 1: we like to try and reach a lot of you
47:05
Speaker 1: an audience, and so you leaving us a nice five
47:07
Speaker 1: stars means that we're more likely to show up in
47:10
Speaker 1: those recommended feeds and whatnot, and so we appreciate that.
47:13
Speaker 1: You can also make sure that you subscribe that you
47:15
Speaker 1: get all of our episodes and like episodes. If you're
47:18
Speaker 1: on a platform that enables that sort of thing, you
47:21
Speaker 1: can share this with a friends, Like if you know
47:23
Speaker 1: someone who's like got weird ideas about Halloween masks, you're like,
47:27
Speaker 1: listen to these two experts. They have some really smart
47:29
Speaker 1: things to say about it, and then you'd send them
47:30
Speaker 1: this episode. That helps us too, So we appreciate that.
47:33
Speaker 1: And if you'd really like to take the extra leap,
47:35
Speaker 1: you can join us on Patreon. That's our club of
47:37
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47:41
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47:43
Speaker 1: get behind the scenes content, early episodes, ad free episodes,
47:46
Speaker 1: and at the end of each discussion, we will take
47:48
Speaker 1: a moment to really thank them for their generosity and
47:51
Speaker 1: helping us continue to be a podcast so special. Thanks
47:54
Speaker 1: to Mike m Megan, Mike t, Justin, Kim Brad, Stephanie, Brian, Ashley, Kiara,
48:00
Speaker 1: and Charlie. Thank you all so much for just being
48:02
Speaker 1: a really wonderful group of people that we we really
48:04
Speaker 1: appreciate your help.
48:05
Speaker 2: Just the most beautiful and spookiest group of people we
48:08
Speaker 2: could ask for.
48:09
Speaker 1: Spooking a good way. Spooking a good way. Yeah, yeah,
48:11
Speaker 1: of course I need my team of people to help
48:13
Speaker 1: me do this show, so writing and fact checking from
48:15
Speaker 1: Shane and myself. Thank you for recording with me today.
48:17
Speaker 2: Shane, thank you for having me.
48:20
Speaker 1: Our social media coordinator is Emma Wilson, and our audio
48:24
Speaker 1: producer Extraordinaiy the person who is ultimately the genius behind
48:28
Speaker 1: all of this, mostly because he makes it sound so
48:31
Speaker 1: good and he's so good to what he does, and
48:33
Speaker 1: that's justin thank you.
48:34
Speaker 2: And he's so handsome. He's so handsome, my god, traditionally handsome.
48:38
Speaker 2: Good lord.
48:38
Speaker 1: You see that face and you're just like that guy's
48:40
Speaker 1: an actor, right, like he's a model. Probably that's yeah.
48:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, give him everything he ever wanted.
48:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, just if he asked for something, you just like
48:47
Speaker 1: here his hundred dollars.
48:48
Speaker 2: Yeah.
48:52
Speaker 1: Anyway, then, thank you all for listening. If you have
48:54
Speaker 1: thoughts around Halloween masks, we would love to hear those thoughts.
48:57
Speaker 1: You can email us directly by emailing us at info
49:00
Speaker 1: at WWDWWD podcast dot com. I think I said you
49:03
Speaker 1: can email us by emailing us. Maybe that goes with
49:05
Speaker 1: our ka you can it's a fact. I mean you
49:08
Speaker 1: can reach us by emailing us, is what I was thinking.
49:10
Speaker 1: But I think I said you can email us by
49:12
Speaker 1: emailing us, which is still accurate. You can also reach
49:15
Speaker 1: us on the social media platforms. We're largely in blue sky,
49:18
Speaker 1: but we're around, so find us there, and we appreciate
49:20
Speaker 1: and look forward to hearing from all of you. We
49:22
Speaker 1: do like constructive criticism. We also like keeping amounts of
49:25
Speaker 1: praise and all of those are good. And if you
49:27
Speaker 1: have something interesting to add, then we might read it
49:30
Speaker 1: at the tail end of an episode and that's always
49:31
Speaker 1: fun as well. Okay, I think I've gotten through those things.
49:35
Speaker 1: Is there anything left before we get to our recommendations?
49:37
Speaker 2: No, I think that covers it all, right.
49:39
Speaker 1: Recommendation time. Yeah, recommendations.
49:50
Speaker 2: So I'm going to make a recommendation for an event
49:53
Speaker 2: that aligns with the spooky season for a long time.
49:56
Speaker 2: I was calling this Mickey's Scary Not So Scared Halloween,
50:01
Speaker 2: and that's not what it's called. It's called Mickey's Not
50:03
Speaker 2: So Spooky Halloween Party at Magic Kingdom. This is a
50:08
Speaker 2: Disney event. And I myself am a Disney dork. I love,
50:13
Speaker 2: I love, love love. I'm a Disney head. Yeah, and
50:16
Speaker 2: so I'm a Disney adult, I mean, and that's I
50:18
Speaker 2: should come out in admitute, right, I'm a Disney deult.
50:21
Speaker 2: So what this is is it a special event that
50:23
Speaker 2: takes place. The entire park is closed at a certain time,
50:26
Speaker 2: and it's just basically a big Halloween party. What they
50:29
Speaker 2: do is they theme certain rides so that it is spookier.
50:33
Speaker 2: They have exclusive snacks that you can get during this
50:36
Speaker 2: time they could only get during the party. And they
50:38
Speaker 2: have trick or treating spots where you can go along
50:41
Speaker 2: the park and trick or treat in the entire park.
50:44
Speaker 2: One part that's really cool about this is they offer
50:46
Speaker 2: an allergy an allergy specific candy option, so you can
50:51
Speaker 2: go if like the candies that they have are they
50:53
Speaker 2: don't meet your allergy needs, like if you are gluten
50:55
Speaker 2: free or you are dairy free or in my dad lackose, intolerant,
50:59
Speaker 2: or vegan. You can get a tooken into every one
51:01
Speaker 2: of these places and then go to the front of
51:02
Speaker 2: the park and cash it, and then I'll just give
51:04
Speaker 2: you heaps and heaps of vegan candy and stuff like that,
51:07
Speaker 2: like vegan gummies, vegan chocolate, stuff like that, gummies. I wish, oh,
51:11
Speaker 2: my man.
51:12
Speaker 1: I did bring something. I'd be quite generous of them.
51:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, that would be great. I left this park with
51:17
Speaker 2: uh because we took my mom for her sixtieth birthday
51:19
Speaker 2: and they have, like you know, they have special parades
51:21
Speaker 2: and shows and music and stuff like that. So I
51:24
Speaker 2: left with a backpack full of candy. Like, and I
51:26
Speaker 2: say a backpack, I mean like a full backpack full
51:28
Speaker 2: of candy just from me trick or treating.
51:30
Speaker 1: Wow.
51:30
Speaker 2: Multiple people in our party left with the same amount
51:32
Speaker 2: of candy, So it's an absurd amount that you get.
51:34
Speaker 2: They're very generous with the heaps of candy that they
51:37
Speaker 2: throw at you. The two cool things that came up
51:39
Speaker 2: was that one right now, the Tron roller coaster is
51:44
Speaker 2: specifically marketed for the Neutron movie where nine Nails is
51:47
Speaker 2: a soundtrack, and so instead of like having a blue
51:50
Speaker 2: color throughout your you have a red color. You're on
51:53
Speaker 2: the evil team, and you listen to nine and Nails
51:55
Speaker 2: on the roller coaster, which is kind of fun sure,
51:58
Speaker 2: and then Space Mountain is already kind of a scary
52:02
Speaker 2: ride because it feels like you're going to die on
52:04
Speaker 2: it because everything is so close. But they decided that
52:06
Speaker 2: the Halloween theme was that they were going to turn
52:09
Speaker 2: all of the lights off, not just the effect lights.
52:12
Speaker 2: So it's literally pitch black roller coaster in Space Mountain,
52:16
Speaker 2: which is already a scary ride. Wow, And it was
52:18
Speaker 2: really a lot of fun. So anyway, if you ever
52:21
Speaker 2: get a chance to go, it's really truly a lot
52:23
Speaker 2: of fun. And I had a good time. So it's
52:25
Speaker 2: Mickey's Not So Spooky Halloween.
52:27
Speaker 1: That was quite the sales pitch.
52:29
Speaker 2: I don't get paid by Disney, by the way.
52:33
Speaker 1: Not sponsored by Disney, although we are accepting sponsorships from Disney.
52:36
Speaker 2: If you're interested, yeah yeah, if you want to send
52:38
Speaker 2: us a sipens or ticket like passes or whatever, by
52:43
Speaker 2: all means.
52:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, although if you try and cancel us, we
52:48
Speaker 1: will criticize you.
52:49
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, we'll have words.
52:51
Speaker 1: I am sort of similarly recommending a more actual, hello,
52:55
Speaker 1: Halloween themed thing. It's because we're in October, so that's
52:58
Speaker 1: kind of the stuff I'm engaged in. Is a TV
53:00
Speaker 1: show I have recommended before. It is a baking competition show.
53:04
Speaker 1: It's all about making illusion cakes or baked goods mars,
53:09
Speaker 1: which is to say, these are cakes that are supposed
53:11
Speaker 1: to look like something other than cakes. It's on Netflix.
53:14
Speaker 1: It's a TV show called Is It Cake? And this
53:17
Speaker 1: is Is It Cake Halloween? And I think this is
53:19
Speaker 1: maybe not the first time they've done this, so I
53:21
Speaker 1: think it Is It Cake Halloween twenty twenty five as
53:24
Speaker 1: the whole deliminating sequence of words there. But yeah, it's
53:29
Speaker 1: halloween sort of spooky themed show. And they have these
53:33
Speaker 1: very talented bakers, many of them professional, and they bake
53:36
Speaker 1: these cakes that look like weird things, like a like
53:40
Speaker 1: a tombstone for example. They might bake and then they'll
53:43
Speaker 1: try and have a panel of judges guess which one
53:45
Speaker 1: of them is the cake out of like yeah, four
53:48
Speaker 1: or five options. They'll look at it and they'll be like, Okay,
53:50
Speaker 1: I think that one's cake, and like that's how good
53:52
Speaker 1: the illusions are. Now. To be fair, they aren't allowed
53:54
Speaker 1: to go up close to them this they stands a
53:55
Speaker 1: good twenty feet away or so, but the cakes are
53:58
Speaker 1: so well done that you can can't tell them from
54:00
Speaker 1: the real thing. Yeah, which is pretty impressive. And they
54:03
Speaker 1: do some really cool stuff on that. So and this
54:05
Speaker 1: was short. I think there's only six episodes for this
54:08
Speaker 1: little mini that they were doing for the holiday. But
54:11
Speaker 1: it's a lot of fun. Go check it out. It's
54:13
Speaker 1: a cool, cool little show.
54:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, I recommend that too. That show is a lot
54:16
Speaker 2: of fun. It's very wholesome and like does it require
54:19
Speaker 2: you to like use too much of your brainpower? You
54:21
Speaker 2: can just enjoy it.
54:22
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, Like they don't really get into like the
54:24
Speaker 1: nuts and bolts of baking technique very much, although they
54:27
Speaker 1: will talk like oh, I'm using modeling chocolate or I'm
54:29
Speaker 1: using fondant or I'm doing this like thing that creates
54:32
Speaker 1: this color pattern or something. Yeah, that is like cool,
54:35
Speaker 1: but like you can also just watch and be like,
54:37
Speaker 1: look at the neat shapes.
54:39
Speaker 2: Yeah you do that.
54:41
Speaker 1: They do that, even watching him do it, I don't
54:43
Speaker 1: know how they did it.
54:43
Speaker 2: It's that good.
54:44
Speaker 1: It's wid Yeah, all right, cool. Well that's isn't cay
54:48
Speaker 1: Calloween on Netflix and then Mickey is not so spooky
54:50
Speaker 1: Halloween party? Did they do this in California? Do you know?
54:53
Speaker 2: I'm sure they do, but I know for a fact
54:55
Speaker 2: they do it at Magic Ingdom in Orlando.
54:58
Speaker 1: Okay, so the way we're talking about the Orlando one,
55:01
Speaker 1: it's possible there's a California one as well, So if
55:03
Speaker 1: you're interested in that sort of thing. I actually think
55:05
Speaker 1: I've been to this once and I had a great time, So.
55:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's good time.
55:08
Speaker 1: It would have been quite a number of years ago.
55:12
Speaker 1: So all right. I think that's what we have to
55:14
Speaker 1: say about that and Halloween masks, and I think we
55:16
Speaker 1: said all of the other things, so I think we
55:18
Speaker 1: can wrap it up. There is there anything I'm missing
55:20
Speaker 1: or that I forgot you'd like to add before we
55:22
Speaker 1: say oh goodbyes?
55:24
Speaker 2: Nope, not today. I think that covers it all right.
55:26
Speaker 1: Happy Halloween, everybody. This is Abraham and this is Shane.
55:30
Speaker 1: We're out.
55:31
Speaker 2: Bye.
55:33
Speaker 1: You've been listening to Why we Do what we do.
55:35
Speaker 2: You can learn more about this and other episodes by
55:38
Speaker 2: going to WWD WWD.
55:41
Speaker 1: Podcast dot com.
55:42
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening, and we hope you have an awesome day.