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Transcript

Town Hall to End Fireworks! · UNCHAINEDTV'S Truth Files with Jane Velez-Mitchell

0:18
Welcome to
0:42
this emergency town hall to stop fireworks.
0:47
They are medieval, literally.
0:49
They began in the 11th century or even
0:52
earlier.
0:53
They are deadly and destructive.
0:55
10 people, 10 human beings were killed as
0:58
a result of fireworks in and around the
1:01
July 4th, 2025 holiday in California alone.
1:06
We have a team of experts who are
1:09
really, really knowledgeable about this issue who have
1:14
joined us today to discuss.
1:16
But I'm going to start with something personal.
1:19
I'm going to start with a heartbreaking experience
1:23
that I had that literally tore my heart
1:27
out in Marina del Rey, and it involves
1:31
all the wildlife that I personally saw with
1:34
my own eyes, devastated by the July 4th
1:38
fireworks at the Marina del Rey jetty.
1:42
One of the most beautiful parts of Marina
1:45
del Rey is the jetty and the wildlife
1:48
near the Bayona wetlands filled prior to the
1:54
fireworks, the July 4th fireworks filled with pelicans.
1:59
Absolutely extraordinary and beautiful.
2:03
But these poor animals had no idea what
2:12
was coming on July 4th.
2:17
Everything changed for them.
2:21
Look what is missing today after the fireworks,
2:25
birds, no birds anywhere to be seen because
2:29
of those fireworks.
2:32
Where did they go?
2:34
How badly were they traumatized?
2:36
We must stop fireworks.
2:41
I want to go to Roy Vanderhoek, who's
2:44
a biologist who has also studied wildlife in
2:47
that area.
2:47
It brings me tears, honestly, because I had
2:50
to walk every day with my dogs past
2:52
that very area.
2:53
No pelicans for well over a month.
2:56
They're coming back, but very slowly, certainly not
3:00
at the number that were there.
3:02
Roy, tell us about the impact of the
3:06
fireworks on July 4th to the animals living
3:10
in that area of Marina del Rey, which
3:12
is right at the mouth of the Bayona
3:14
wetlands ecological reserve, home to 1,700 species,
3:19
including threatened and endangered species.
3:23
Yes, well, the California brown pelican, as your
3:26
photography showed, is and it's near dusk at
3:30
sunset when we do the July 4th fireworks.
3:33
And this is a diurnal bird.
3:35
It doesn't fly at night.
3:36
So by this time in the day, it's
3:38
trying to roost and sleep and they are
3:41
social.
3:42
So they congregate.
3:43
It's the end of the nesting season.
3:45
They've returned to the mainland from the Channel
3:47
Islands where they breed.
3:48
I see several of the pelicans had white
3:50
heads.
3:51
Those were adults and there were some with
3:52
brown heads, which are juvenile first year birds.
3:55
And so when that firework starts, they don't
3:58
want it.
3:58
They don't want to be flying because, as
4:00
I just said, they're a diurnal bird.
4:02
They are resting and being wary.
4:06
And for the next day to.
4:08
So this is disturbing them.
4:09
They go into flight.
4:11
They don't even see that well.
4:12
And when they're tightly together in a group
4:15
like that and they have six foot plus
4:17
wingspans and it's very laborious to take off
4:20
into the air, that they were certainly their
4:23
wings were touching each other, hitting each other.
4:26
They were disoriented.
4:27
They said this is not a safe place.
4:30
And that's why they didn't come back the
4:32
next day.
4:33
There may have been some mortality.
4:34
We don't know.
4:36
But we do know that their behavior was
4:38
greatly impacted.
4:39
And that's what we should be thinking about,
4:41
like what happens to them in the next
4:43
weeks and months.
4:44
And are they going to come back?
4:46
And the mouth of the Iona River and
4:49
the Marina del Rey jetties is calm water.
4:51
It's shallow.
4:52
It's warm.
4:53
There's a lot of fish there.
4:55
It's a nursery.
4:55
So they want to be here because it's
4:58
a place to get a lot of food.
4:59
And we have several federal reports that have
5:02
indicated that 10,000 to 12,000 brown
5:05
pelican will be on the Breakwater Island at
5:08
the jetty.
5:09
And the fireworks were done at ground zero
5:12
just within, oh, I'd say 50 yards to
5:15
75 yards of where those brown pelicans that
5:18
you photographed.
5:19
Yeah, it's a big impact.
5:22
Marcia Hanscom, you have also been very active
5:26
in this battle.
5:28
This is just what I've taken off my
5:31
phone.
5:32
Watching from Encino, the entire valley go up
5:37
in explosions, looks like a war.
5:44
I can only imagine the wildlife all across
5:47
the valley being very badly impacted.
5:50
Can you describe what is at stake here
5:53
for our wildlife?
5:57
Yes, well, the wildlife, I never even thought
6:02
of that, frankly, even though I had been
6:05
doing work to protect wetlands and endangered species
6:09
for some time.
6:11
I had loved fireworks since I was a
6:15
child, so I didn't think there was anything
6:17
wrong until Roy, the biologist here, took me
6:22
to a fireworks show in Malibu.
6:26
And he said, oh, my God, they're putting
6:28
those fireworks off right where the dolphins swim.
6:33
And I knew that dolphins are very sensitive
6:37
to sound, that they require their senses.
6:46
It's called echolocation in order to move, in
6:50
order to find food.
6:52
And everything they do is supported by this
6:56
echolocation.
6:57
And those loud blasts obviously would impact them.
7:03
In fact, the U.S. Navy has been
7:05
under very serious litigation related to this because
7:10
of the blast that they put off trying
7:14
to deal with military defense in the water.
7:19
And so this is a problem we don't
7:23
even know the degree of problem we have
7:26
related to the wildlife that are impacted here.
7:30
And what's horrible at Marina del Rey is
7:33
that these fireworks are shot off right above
7:37
the only state ecological reserve in all of
7:42
L.A. County, the Bayona Wetlands Ecological Reserve.
7:45
And so besides the wildlife that are in
7:49
the marina jetty, the entire ecological reserve is
7:54
impacted.
7:56
I want to show one shot of one
8:01
pelican in a box landing near a doorstep
8:07
as a result of these fireworks.
8:11
Now, magnify that by a hundred.
8:14
This is what we're dealing with.
8:16
And, you know, what's so frustrating about this
8:19
is that there are alternatives and the wonderful
8:25
it's called a drone show.
8:28
And they're growing in popularity around the world,
8:33
particularly in Europe.
8:35
But also there have been many drone shows
8:38
here in the United States.
8:40
They're exciting.
8:41
Like I said, fireworks have been around since
8:44
medieval times.
8:45
How many times you have to see the
8:46
same thing?
8:47
Look at how fantastic this is.
8:50
These are just a couple of examples of
8:53
what drone shows can do.
8:55
They don't leave the toxic chemicals.
8:58
They don't scare the wildlife.
9:01
They can have music accompanying them, but it's
9:03
certainly not going to have the impact of
9:05
something that sounds like a war zone.
9:07
So I want to bring in there's two
9:10
ladies who have joined us today that are
9:12
leading the fight to try to switch to
9:14
this civilized 21st century solution.
9:19
And let's start with Anna Christensen.
9:23
Anna, you've done some incredible work trying to
9:27
wake people up to this beautiful alternative and
9:32
get the California Coastal Commission, which makes these
9:36
decisions, and other bodies that are authoritative to
9:41
take this leap and do it in a
9:44
way that will help us avoid the catastrophes
9:49
while people are still having a lot of
9:51
fun and celebrating and good family fun, as
9:54
everybody says they want to have.
9:57
Anna.
9:58
Yeah, thanks a lot for having us and
10:00
for elevating this topic.
10:04
It comes to people's minds, of course, around
10:08
the 4th of July or New Year's.
10:10
But other than that, you know, it's just
10:12
another day.
10:13
We do want to point out that on
10:15
the day of fireworks and after fireworks, we
10:18
have the worst air quality.
10:20
It just is off the charts.
10:22
And of course, breathing is something that we
10:24
all do.
10:26
I would point out the issue of the
10:28
Miner's Canary, where we are concerned about wildlife,
10:31
but we are not separate from wildlife.
10:34
Our relatives are all in that same position.
10:38
So when we think that it doesn't matter
10:40
what happens to a bird or a pet,
10:43
it's really not true.
10:45
We all have to breathe air and fireworks
10:47
are incredibly toxic to air and water.
10:50
So there's a lot of long-term health
10:52
consequences.
10:53
We got involved when we were trying to
10:56
protect nesting coastal birds, especially great blue herons
11:01
in our local marina.
11:02
And this led us to, because trees were
11:06
being removed where they nested.
11:07
Well, we were successful in that.
11:09
We have not been able to stop a
11:11
small local fireworks show, which is part of
11:15
the city's policy.
11:17
It's incredible to me that when we talk
11:19
about freedom, I noticed one of your headlines
11:21
was what is freedom?
11:22
And the freedom of a restaurant business or
11:26
a cruise boat owner in our downtown harbor
11:29
to apply for a permit and get a
11:31
permit that is so destructive to human health
11:35
and animal health and the environment.
11:38
And we can't seem to do this is
11:41
an individual right.
11:43
And it has a lot to do with
11:45
income and the city gets income from special
11:47
events.
11:48
So we're really up against a structure that's
11:50
very much a capitalist profit-making structure.
11:53
And I think that what we need to
11:57
educate people to do is that your individual
12:00
fun or your entertainment at the expense of
12:04
the freedom to breathe, whether it's animals or
12:08
people, is not acceptable.
12:11
You know, that's not freedom.
12:13
That's aggression.
12:15
And that's what we're looking at, an aggressive
12:17
policy that is very, very destructive.
12:20
And of course, we also in our town
12:22
don't acknowledge our rookeries or the need to
12:26
protect coastal wildlife to the degree that we
12:29
should be.
12:30
We go up to the mountains or we
12:32
go to a special place to see wildlife
12:33
and we breathe mountain air.
12:35
But you know what?
12:36
Mountain air is just actual air.
12:39
It's air that hasn't been really harmed and
12:42
polluted by human activity.
12:44
And we've been with Coast Law.
12:46
I'm so glad to see Coast Law here
12:48
today because they really sued over this particular
12:50
fireworks show and they tried their best.
12:55
They're working down in San Diego.
12:56
She can go more on it.
12:57
It really is an uphill battle.
13:00
And yet, when we took our petition to
13:02
the local farmer's market asking people to oppose
13:05
the fireworks show, we only had one guy
13:08
who even barely supported it.
13:10
I don't really believe that the general public
13:12
is all that committed to being able to
13:15
harm themselves and others as a way to
13:19
party.
13:19
And I'll stop there for now because there's
13:21
a lot of experts.
13:22
Of course.
13:23
And I want to correct.
13:25
This poor little baby is a great blue
13:28
heron.
13:29
Well, so traumatized.
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I couldn't tell from the photo.
13:33
Looked to be like a pelican, but this
13:35
is a great blue heron in the box.
13:37
But it actually makes my point.
13:39
It wasn't just the pelicans.
13:40
I pointed out the pelicans.
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It's the egrets.
13:43
It's the cormorants.
13:43
It's the great blue herons.
13:45
And also the sea lions, the seals.
13:49
They vanished as well.
13:50
And that's why I started reaching out and
13:54
saying, what can we do?
13:55
Because I was devastated.
13:58
I don't want to live in a dead
13:59
zone.
13:59
It's not all about condos and cars.
14:02
To me, what makes Marina del Rey priceless
14:05
is the wildlife.
14:07
I don't want to live here if it's
14:08
a dead zone.
14:09
And that's what these fireworks are doing, in
14:11
my humble opinion.
14:13
I want to bring in, you mentioned the
14:15
law group.
14:16
Natalie Marcin, I hope I'm pronouncing your name
14:19
correctly.
14:20
You've had some sick- I'm sorry.
14:30
You were frozen on my screen for the
14:33
past 10 seconds.
14:35
What was the question?
14:36
How have you been successful?
14:38
What is your experience stopping fireworks?
14:42
Sure.
14:43
Well, Coastal Law Group represents Coastal Environmental Rights
14:46
Foundation, which has been advocating against fireworks for
14:49
over a decade, maybe close to two.
14:52
And they've been instrumental in getting the first
14:57
ever Clean Water Act permit.
14:59
It's a general permit in the San Diego
15:01
region for fireworks.
15:03
So now there's finally some clean water best
15:06
management practices that are put on the shows.
15:09
Whether they're following those best management practices is
15:13
hard to tell.
15:15
And that's where our current advocacy is against
15:17
SeaWorld, where we are alleging that they are
15:20
not following their best management practices as required
15:22
by the Clean Water Act.
15:24
And we also, in the Alamitos Bay, got
15:27
the first ever general fireworks permit up there
15:30
as well.
15:31
So similarly, they will now have to follow
15:33
best management practices in line with the Clean
15:36
Water Act.
15:37
We've also been pushing policy and advocacy for
15:41
the Coastal Commission, as you mentioned.
15:43
And last year, they indicated that they were
15:46
not going to continue to support firework shows.
15:49
We'll see if that holds true in the
15:52
upcoming months and years.
15:54
But that's where we're at now.
15:56
And we are looking and advocating for the
15:58
solution to be drone shows, as you mentioned.
16:01
Well, let's talk a little bit about the
16:03
California Coastal Commission.
16:06
Recently, they approved fireworks for Capitola, California.
16:11
Despite the fact that I testified, Marsha testified,
16:16
I believe several people who are on this
16:18
emergency town hall, Roy Vanderhoek testified against it.
16:25
So let's listen to a little of the
16:27
debate back and forth.
16:28
And then we're going to talk about it
16:30
on the other side.
16:31
I'm the Public Works Director for the City
16:32
of Capitola.
16:33
Thank you so much for considering the city's
16:35
annual permit for its fireworks show.
16:37
This long-standing event provides free family entertainment
16:41
and supports local fundraising for educational and recreational
16:44
activities in the County of Santa Cruz.
16:47
Monitoring reports from previous year's events have not
16:50
identified any significant adverse impacts.
16:53
As the agency responsible for protecting Capitola's coastal
16:57
environment, the city is pleased to take on
16:59
the permit responsibilities to ensure continued compliance.
17:03
We've coordinated this project with our staff ecologists
17:06
and agree with all mitigation measures included in
17:08
the permit.
17:10
And we support staff recommendation and proposed conditions
17:13
and are available to answer any questions.
17:15
Respectfully, you falsely suggest that there's no ramifications
17:20
from these fireworks.
17:22
Fireworks cause death and bloodshed.
17:25
In California alone, 10 people died.
17:29
There was a tragic blast, you may have
17:30
seen it, at a warehouse, a fireworks warehouse.
17:35
Seven people died this holiday.
17:39
An eight-year-old girl was killed by
17:41
fireworks.
17:42
In Simi Valley, a man died and his
17:44
house caught fire.
17:46
A man was also killed in Pacoima.
17:49
Okay, 10 people died.
17:52
You know, where were those fireworks headed in
17:55
that deadly explosion that killed seven people?
17:59
Were they headed to Capitola?
18:01
You can't just exempt yourself from this destructive
18:05
industry.
18:06
It is killing people.
18:07
It is causing wildlife to fall out of
18:09
trees.
18:10
It is giving veterans PTSD and triggering them.
18:14
It's causing more lost pets than any other
18:16
time of year.
18:17
It must end.
18:19
Why are you backing something medieval and deadly?
18:23
Think about the parents of that eight-year
18:24
-old girl.
18:25
Is that family-friendly fun?
18:27
When you have a safe and effective and
18:30
entertaining alternative in drone shows, I urge you
18:34
to please join the 21st century.
18:37
There is no excuse for this violence.
18:40
It is violence.
18:44
I want to reiterate there is a feasible,
18:47
environmentally superior alternative, a drone show that does
18:52
not blast and disturb wildlife with no chemicals
18:57
that harm the wildlife.
18:59
I saw in your staff report no analysis
19:01
of the chemicals.
19:03
You're going to have somebody go out the
19:05
next day and pick up some of the
19:07
cardboard and plastic debris that falls from the
19:10
sky after these fireworks, but you're not able
19:13
to get the heavy metals.
19:16
Copper, strontium, barium, and other chemicals create the
19:21
colors of these fireworks.
19:24
Fireworks also emit fine particulate matter and soot
19:27
and ash.
19:28
All of that goes into the water.
19:30
I know because I watched this at Marina
19:33
Del Rey.
19:35
So, Christina Koo, you're an attorney, lives near
19:39
Marina Del Rey.
19:40
You've been very involved in the battle to
19:42
save the Bayona wetlands from bulldozing, which is,
19:45
they're calling it a restoration, but bulldozing LA's
19:49
last coastal wetlands home to 1,700 species
19:53
is not restoration.
19:55
Here we are fighting to save these animals
19:57
while these bombs go off.
19:59
Essentially, that's how animals perceive it, as bombs
20:02
going off.
20:03
What's your reaction to how the Coastal Commission,
20:06
I know you've testified many times as we
20:08
all have, what's your reaction to how the
20:11
Coastal Commission is handling this situation, Christina?
20:19
So, yes, it's a huge issue that does
20:23
involve the Coastal Commission.
20:25
One interesting thing that I found was that
20:28
there are non-profit groups, for example, the
20:31
Coastal Environmental Rights Foundation, they have been working
20:36
with California Coastal Commission and they will, on
20:39
behalf of different groups, non-profits, talk to
20:42
them and meet with them and they have
20:44
been very successful.
20:46
And so, I have spoken to a few
20:48
who work at this non-profit and they
20:50
are very interested in continuing to talk with
20:53
activists and experts and being the liaison with
20:57
the Coastal Commission for the Marina Del Rey
21:00
fireworks issues.
21:02
And some of the topics that we've discussed
21:04
were, because it's a special situation where the
21:08
Marina Del Rey fireworks are right next to
21:11
the Bayona Wetlands and Ecological Reserve, that that
21:15
really should be an exception to the situation
21:18
and really should have some forces behind it
21:21
to stop or decrease or ban such fireworks
21:25
that obviously will violate some of the air
21:28
and water quality acts.
21:30
So, this might be a really good angle
21:33
to continue to work with this non-profit
21:36
to approach the Commission.
21:38
Well, I know you do a lot of
21:40
work in that regard.
21:42
I want to say this whole idea that
21:45
there are these hearings where people testify and
21:48
they go, yes, we're monitoring and we see
21:51
no adverse effects.
21:53
I was there on July 5th at the
21:55
Marina Del Rey jetty.
21:57
There were no scientists running around looking to
21:59
see whether the pelicans and the egrets and
22:02
the cormorants were still there.
22:05
I mean, there was not a single bird
22:09
anywhere in sight where the day before there
22:11
had been hundreds.
22:13
So, they say that they monitor, but honestly,
22:16
the way they're monitoring, it's kind of like
22:19
whatever outcome they want is what they get.
22:23
And I would like, you know, Anne Cantrell,
22:27
you've been waiting very patiently.
22:29
You've been fighting this in Long Beach.
22:32
What are your thoughts about how the system,
22:36
I dare say, is kind of rigged to
22:41
have the outcome that the powers that be
22:44
want?
22:47
You put the words right out of my
22:50
mouth.
22:51
We thought we had a win this last
22:56
year when the Big Bang on the Bay
22:58
fireworks show applied for a permit from the
23:03
Coastal Commission last June, because for the first
23:09
time, the Coastal Commission staff agreed with us.
23:13
And they even went so far as to
23:16
contact a drone company and determined that there
23:24
were places in Alameda Bay where drone shows
23:28
could be done instead of fireworks.
23:33
And the staff recommended to the Commission that
23:39
they give a permit where they show only
23:45
if drones were used, not fireworks.
23:51
So we were ecstatic when we went to
23:54
the hearing, thinking we at last had a
23:58
win.
23:59
And lo and behold, the Commissioner from Long
24:05
Beach, Robert Uranga, it was his last day
24:11
on the Commission.
24:12
He was termed out.
24:13
He's had a stroke and unfortunately has a
24:17
lot of trouble speaking.
24:19
And he got the pity of the Commission
24:26
to give this permit for the show, which
24:32
he has been one of the people that
24:40
has been, I'm blanking out on the word,
24:47
he has backed the show for years.
24:52
And so as a final gesture, the Commission
24:57
voted unanimously to have the Big Bang one
25:01
more year.
25:03
They did say that this would be the
25:06
last year.
25:07
I'm hoping that this is going to be
25:12
the fact, because Anna and I and other
25:15
Sierra Club members have been down there for
25:18
four years in a row during the fireworks,
25:22
holding blankets under the trees, hoping to catch
25:26
any falling babies that are blasted out of
25:29
their nests.
25:31
And we have never caught a baby, but
25:35
we found dead ones the next day every
25:40
year.
25:43
Either they fall out of the nest at
25:46
the time or they starve because their parents
25:52
don't return.
25:54
This is just incredible that we have to
25:58
keep putting up with this when there are
26:01
alternatives.
26:03
And I would like everybody who's upset about
26:05
this, thank you so much, Ann, to sign
26:08
this petition, bit.ly forward slash stop fireworks.
26:14
Just copy that down and sign it, because
26:21
we're going to take this emergency town hall
26:25
and those petitions and go to the powers
26:27
that be and say, you know what, all
26:29
this nonsense about everybody supports fireworks and family
26:33
fun, everybody I know in this neighborhood where
26:37
I live can't stand fireworks.
26:39
We all commiserate the day after.
26:42
Our dogs have to be sedated.
26:44
More dogs are lost than any other day
26:48
of the year on July 4th, only because
26:50
of the fireworks.
26:52
And then there's people say, well, you know,
26:54
it's legal, fireworks are fine, but the illegal
26:57
ones are bad.
26:58
The legal fireworks inspire the illegal fireworks.
27:02
If there were no fireworks around here, I
27:04
don't think people would be trudging over here
27:06
to set off their fireworks.
27:07
They know there's legal fireworks and they piggyback
27:10
off of it and set off the illegal
27:12
fireworks.
27:14
So they're all interconnected.
27:16
And I want to play a little bit
27:19
of an interview I did with a woman
27:23
who has two dogs, Karen LaCava, who says
27:26
her life is really, really devastated by fireworks
27:30
every year.
27:31
It is so loud.
27:33
My whole house vibrates when the fireworks go
27:36
off.
27:36
I feel like my house is going to
27:38
fall down.
27:40
And then the next day and that night,
27:43
it's debris all over the place.
27:45
I have to always water down my roof
27:49
and my lawn before July 4th, before January
27:52
1st, because I'm so afraid that they are
27:56
going to set my place on fire.
27:58
It's horrible.
27:59
And I can't, for days afterwards, actually for
28:02
months afterwards, I don't hear breaks.
28:03
We hear breaks every day.
28:05
Not only that, but the air pollution, it's
28:07
so horrible.
28:09
It's so horrible that night and the next
28:11
day.
28:12
It's a nightmare.
28:13
My dogs are so frightened.
28:16
I have to give them something to mellow
28:18
them out.
28:19
I put vests on them.
28:20
I have started actually taking them away from
28:23
the area.
28:24
And then if I'm not there, I'm so
28:26
nervous that I'm going to come home to
28:28
a burned down house.
28:30
I want to stay there and I can't
28:32
because I can't leave my dogs there.
28:33
They are so traumatized by these fireworks.
28:38
And my neighbor's dogs are too.
28:39
It's just a nightmare.
28:42
Drone shows are so much better.
28:44
We do not need fireworks.
28:46
So there she is, basically expressing the viewpoint
28:51
that I hear from everybody.
28:54
I'll say two points.
28:56
One is that that's not the way it's
28:59
portrayed at the California Coastal Commission and all
29:02
these other venues where the decisions are made.
29:05
It's portrayed as everybody wants it.
29:08
Well, where are those everybody?
29:10
Because I've never met them.
29:11
I've only met people like Karen who consider
29:14
this a nightmare, as do I.
29:17
The second thing that I want to say
29:19
is that everybody's acting like, well, either we
29:23
have fireworks or we don't have any celebration.
29:27
OK, there's plenty of ways to celebrate.
29:31
We talked about drone shows.
29:32
We talked about light shows, for example, boat
29:36
parades.
29:37
There's a million alternatives, creative alternatives, then to
29:41
using something that is literally medieval.
29:43
I went and researched it.
29:45
This started like in the 11th century as
29:47
a precursor to gunpowder.
29:50
And it led to gunpowder.
29:53
Marcia Hanscom, can you weigh in a little
29:56
bit on the politics of this?
30:00
Yeah, well, I think, you know, 20 years
30:03
ago when I got awakened to all of
30:06
the problems and realized all this pollution, you
30:10
know, a lot of people don't think about
30:11
the pollution.
30:12
But what goes up must come down.
30:15
And there is a lot of pollution that
30:17
comes down.
30:17
There's not just cardboard, but wires and plastic
30:21
and and, of course, all of the chemicals
30:24
we talked about that all ends up on
30:27
the land and in the water and in
30:29
the air.
30:30
And I think what because people have thought
30:34
of this as patriotic, you know, nobody wants
30:38
to go against being patriotic.
30:40
Well, of course, the Fourth of July is
30:42
a big celebration.
30:43
The Christmas boat parade is a big celebration.
30:46
New Year's Eve is a big celebration.
30:49
But why?
30:50
You know, we just have to start questioning
30:52
out loud.
30:53
Why is a celebration necessary to have with
30:58
it something that is actually equated with war?
31:01
The whole reason we're having the fireworks is
31:04
a celebration of the Fourth of July of
31:06
the war.
31:07
You know, the bombs bursting midair.
31:11
That's really what it is about.
31:13
And I think there are other ways to
31:15
celebrate.
31:16
Last year at Marina del Rey, the county
31:19
of Los Angeles did try a possible alternative.
31:24
And during the boat parade, only during the
31:26
boat parade, but they did use a light
31:30
and music drone show.
31:32
And the people I know who showed on
31:35
their social media all these beautiful images in
31:39
the sky that went along with music, they
31:42
loved it.
31:42
Not everybody could see it the same way
31:45
because it didn't have as much of a
31:48
blast.
31:48
So maybe there are other ways to make
31:50
it better.
31:52
But unless we start trying to celebrate in
31:56
other ways, I mean, why do we have
31:59
15 minutes of celebration that ends up in
32:04
horror afterwards for way longer than 15 minutes?
32:08
I agree with you entirely.
32:10
And Natalie, you were talking about the fact
32:13
that you have seen the evidence.
32:16
Tell us about that.
32:18
Yeah, I scuba dived under the SeaWorld fireworks
32:22
barge with a friend of mine, and we
32:25
found substantial amounts of buried debris, layered on
32:31
debris.
32:31
So it's a seagrass bed under the SeaWorld
32:33
fireworks barge and substantial amounts of wires are
32:37
kind of growing within all the different areas
32:40
of the seagrass.
32:41
It had to have been what felt like
32:44
years worth, what we perceive as years worth
32:46
of debris.
32:48
I don't know what SeaWorld would reply to
32:49
that.
32:50
I won't put words in their mouth.
32:52
And we also found fireworks foil and wrappers
32:56
under there as well.
32:58
And that's an indication, at least in our
33:00
opinion, that they are not following their best
33:03
management practices, their fireworks permit.
33:07
Uh, I will say this, uh, this idea
33:10
that all these scientists go out after every
33:13
fireworks and they're, they're, they're looking and digging
33:16
and I'm calling BS on that.
33:20
Okay.
33:21
I've lived here 35 years.
33:22
I've never seen anybody who looks like a
33:24
scientist walking around checking to see the impact
33:27
of, of these fireworks.
33:29
Nobody certainly did what you did, get in
33:31
a scuba outfit and go down there and
33:33
check it out.
33:33
Um, Anna Christensen, you've been, uh, very patient.
33:38
What is your thought on the politics of
33:42
this?
33:42
We're about to play some Coastal Commission, uh,
33:45
word salad.
33:46
So before we go there, I want to
33:48
get your take on the politics of this,
33:51
because I say when it comes to anything,
33:54
follow the money always.
33:57
So I think it's important to understand how
33:59
the Coastal Commission works.
34:01
And by the way, the Coastal Commission, uh,
34:03
did, uh, did many years ago, uh, was
34:07
able to end a fireworks show, uh, even
34:10
though, uh, they were sued and it went
34:11
all the way to the state Supreme Court.
34:13
So there is precedent, but the Coastal Commission
34:15
is very much like a court in the
34:18
sense that they are operate on a case
34:20
by case basis.
34:21
So what, what is brought before them or
34:24
like a planning commission, the project that is
34:26
brought before them has to comply with the
34:28
Coastal Act.
34:29
So it's a project by project basis.
34:31
And it seems a little schizophrenic right now
34:34
where we have them in the case of
34:35
the, of the staff at least.
34:37
And the staff plays the role of preparing,
34:39
uh, doing the research and advocating, uh, or
34:42
that the commissioners take one position or another.
34:46
And the commissioners don't have to follow the
34:48
staff, but they usually do.
34:50
Um, when it comes, but to just jump
34:54
a little bit sideways on this, when you
34:56
talk about the scientists, what scientists are we
34:59
talking about?
34:59
The biologists, when the Coastal Commission, uh, approved
35:02
something, they approve it with conditions.
35:04
Often these projects are approved with the condition
35:07
that, that a biologist be there or, or
35:09
like you said, it's somebody that is there
35:12
to, to look underwater and stuff like that.
35:14
But who pays for this?
35:15
The person who puts on the project.
35:17
So the whole field of, of, um, experts
35:21
here, um, are experts that take money from
35:25
the promoters.
35:26
So I'm not saying that these biologists are
35:29
totally unethical, but they do make a living
35:32
by, uh, by working for people who want
35:35
these fireworks shows.
35:37
And we find that their, uh, their opinions
35:40
are very different than ours.
35:41
And their conclusions are very different than ours.
35:43
Uh, sometimes even the Coastal Commission staff, the
35:46
biologist has a different conclusion as well, but
35:49
the, our, the general term is, but the
35:51
birds came back.
35:52
That's what they conclude everything, but the birds
35:54
came back, but they don't know that the
35:56
birds came back.
35:56
They don't count the birds that the studies
35:58
that are the most accurate have been done
36:00
in the Netherlands and in Europe, where they've
36:02
literally put tags on the birds and they've
36:05
noticed how many hundreds of thousands of feet
36:07
they fly away and that they do not
36:09
come back.
36:11
Now there's been some, we have real hard
36:13
evidence such as when the city shot off
36:16
fireworks directly under nesting birds in a downtown
36:19
park and the birds just fell to the
36:21
ground and died like this one right here.
36:23
We also had a, had a bird on
36:25
video, a great juvenile great blue heron fall
36:29
directly into the water about 30, 40 feet
36:31
down in a tree and swim to a
36:32
dock.
36:33
Uh, what happened to that bird?
36:35
They just dismiss it.
36:37
So, you know, when you say follow the
36:39
money, the people who are doing the analysis
36:42
are not, they're not necessarily, uh, Coastal Commission
36:45
staff.
36:46
They're not that independent.
36:47
They're literally paid for by the developers.
36:49
All right.
36:50
I want to jump in and bring in,
36:52
uh, and thank you.
36:53
That was brilliant because what you're saying is
36:56
if, if you're, if your job is dependent
37:00
on finding that there's no problem with the
37:03
fireworks, what are you going to find?
37:04
There's no problem with the fireworks.
37:06
Roy, you are a biologist and you're an
37:09
independent biologist who was not ruled by a
37:12
paycheck.
37:13
What are your thoughts on this whole notion
37:16
that we hear in the Coastal Commission and
37:18
other agencies all the time?
37:20
Oh, well, the biologists checked or the experts
37:23
checked and there's no, there's no problem here.
37:26
Nothing to see here.
37:28
Well, yes, I am an independent scientist.
37:31
I've, I've never been a consultant and that
37:34
term consultant biologist or scientist, I've seen numerous
37:38
instances where they write the reports and they're
37:41
listening very carefully to who's paying them when
37:44
they write their reports.
37:45
There isn't very much honesty in consulting science.
37:48
It is very, very biased.
37:50
It is something that affects peer reviewed science
37:53
too, which is why now scientific articles have
37:57
to say who's funding that.
37:59
We do have to look at that.
38:01
And as an independent scientist, I, I think
38:03
I'm just about maybe one of the only
38:05
ones who's ever gone after fireworks and during
38:08
fireworks as a scientist to observe things.
38:11
And even our famous naturalist, Charles Darwin brought
38:14
in inferences from, in order to understand evolution,
38:17
for example, he brought in what happens with
38:20
animal husbandry and selecting breeding and animals.
38:24
So similarly, we as scientists should also be
38:27
looking at in an urban area where we
38:30
have all number of kinds of pets, dogs
38:33
and cats, birds that people have as pets
38:37
near the ground zero of the fireworks.
38:40
We can collect data and, and indirectly relate
38:43
that to what's, what's happening to the native
38:47
animals.
38:48
And let's remember that birds have a heightened
38:50
sense of, of hearing and seeing they are
38:55
higher in that degree than mammals.
38:58
And then, but there are some exceptions like
39:00
with the bottlenose dolphin, which is a really
39:03
close shore marine mammal.
39:05
It does not swim out to the outer
39:07
waters.
39:08
It's very close to the surf zone.
39:10
And the bottlenose dolphin on our California coast
39:12
is a rare, unique subpopulation.
39:17
And we can study bottlenose, bottlenose dolphin related
39:21
varieties in other parts of the world to
39:23
gain info on, on what's going on.
39:26
Also, it's, it's a harbor and estuary and
39:30
animal, and they've now moved to Monterey Bay.
39:34
And there was no studies done at the
39:36
Capitola, Capitola fireworks in anticipation, because there's a
39:39
bottlenose dolphin population that's moved north to Monterey
39:43
Bay now, perhaps because of climate change.
39:45
And we are, are woefully ignorant as a
39:50
society, and we're not, we're doing monitoring.
39:53
And I think Anna Christensen has, has described
39:56
it well.
39:56
And yes, you do have to follow the
39:58
money to, to, to know what's going on.
40:03
And we have to get our information indirectly.
40:06
Suzanne Cumming, who can't be on the program
40:08
today, I asked her and she followed up
40:10
with checking with the International Bird Rescue Center
40:13
for Los Angeles.
40:15
And then they documented, they have, they have
40:18
records right after July 4th and on January
40:21
1st, where there's numbers of birds that are
40:23
brought in that are, are young birds or
40:26
injured somehow because of the fireworks.
40:29
And they try to rehab them.
40:31
So we have various ways we can collect
40:33
our information to tell the story scientifically on
40:37
fireworks, but we're not going to get the
40:39
answer from consultants.
40:41
It's common sense.
40:43
I mean, you can't do this and expect
40:46
these birds to just sit there in their
40:49
trees or on their little roosts where they
40:53
roost, pelicans, et cetera, and just sit there
40:56
and go, oh yeah, nice fireworks.
40:58
Of course, it's going to terrorize them.
41:00
You're not even hearing the sound.
41:01
This is on silent now.
41:03
It terrorizes people.
41:05
If you didn't know that it was a
41:07
firework show, it would terrorize you.
41:10
It just, so the, the inability to, to
41:14
just be common sense-ical about this instead
41:19
of nonsensical about it.
41:21
You want to say a couple of things,
41:23
Christina, please weigh in.
41:25
Sure.
41:26
So, you know, I understand that a lot
41:29
of Chamber of Commerce's, they're the ones that
41:33
actually fund these fireworks shows, at least through
41:37
the Marina area and probably, you know, everywhere
41:40
else.
41:40
And that's a source of, you know, advocacy
41:43
that we can somehow work with them and
41:46
provide them with the alternatives and convince them
41:49
to try the drone shows.
41:51
And for us to also investigate more with
41:54
all the drone companies and get them on
41:56
board to providing at a discount for the
42:00
first year for cities that want to try
42:02
it and see how much money it brings
42:04
into their cities and restaurants and entertainment and
42:08
tours.
42:08
So I think it could all be more
42:11
of a, yeah, overall, you know, project to
42:15
influence the Chamber of Commerce to try out
42:17
these new companies that bring in just as
42:19
much financial benefits.
42:22
And it can all go towards, you know,
42:24
stopping fireworks for people to shift over.
42:27
And the other positive thing is that, I
42:29
mean, the California Regional Water Board, they did
42:31
give permits to the Marina Del Rey fireworks,
42:35
and that is up for renewal in 2028.
42:39
And, you know, by that time, hopefully we
42:42
can submit enough information, evidence for them to
42:46
seriously review this and to deny the permits.
42:50
I don't know the realities of that, but
42:52
that permit doesn't expire.
42:54
I'm sorry, I love what you're saying, except
42:57
when I heard 2028, no.
43:00
We know, I think it's very, but thank
43:02
you, Christina.
43:03
I think it's very important to point out
43:05
something that people don't talk about a lot.
43:07
And that is that we are in the
43:09
midst of the sixth mass extinction.
43:12
We have reduced total wildlife biomass to just
43:17
4% of total mammal biomass, while increasing
43:22
livestock biomass to more than 60% of
43:26
total mammal biomass.
43:28
At the rate we're destroying wildlife, it's very
43:32
possible we'll have no wildlife except in zoos
43:35
within a decade.
43:37
That's what the World Wildlife Fund is saying.
43:40
That's how quickly we're decimating wildlife in the
43:43
Amazon and development.
43:46
Amazon for cattle grazing, to grow crops to
43:49
feed the 80 plus billion animals we kill
43:52
every year.
43:53
That's the football fields every couple of minutes
43:56
that they're destroying.
43:58
And so wildlife is already under assault.
44:02
This isn't happening in a vacuum.
44:04
This is happening in the context of the
44:07
sixth mass extinction.
44:08
And honestly, I think you have to just
44:11
be a little bit stupid.
44:13
I hate to say it, not to see
44:15
that when wildlife is already under assault from
44:19
development projects like the quote unquote restoration that
44:24
is a bulldozing of the entire Biona wetlands
44:27
over more than nine years at a cost
44:30
of hundreds of millions of dollars.
44:32
That's an assault on wildlife.
44:35
Say goodbye to those wild animals.
44:38
And then you have the fireworks basically dropping
44:42
bombs on them as they perceive that.
44:45
I mean, what are we as a culture
44:48
that we think this is okay and good
44:51
family fun?
44:52
And then you add on to it, 10
44:54
people were killed in California alone, including an
44:57
eight year old girl as a result of
45:00
fireworks.
45:02
Um, that's why we're holding an emergency town
45:06
hall, because this is a crisis.
45:08
This is not business as usual.
45:11
I want to go to the California Coastal
45:14
Commission, and I want to applaud what one
45:18
of the commissioners said.
45:19
She spoke first, and then another commissioner spoke,
45:24
and I believe she covered all bases.
45:26
Like she's against it, but she's for it,
45:28
but it's terrible, but let's make it better.
45:30
I don't know.
45:31
We'll discuss it on the other side.
45:34
Listen to this.
45:36
This is after all of us testified against
45:38
approving the Capitola fireworks, and they proceeded to
45:43
approve it.
45:43
But this is what they said prior to
45:45
making that vote.
45:46
But I would like to see us move
45:48
away from these where we can.
45:50
I think that technology of drones is bringing
45:53
the price down, and I've certainly seen more
45:56
and more wow factors, not a bad thing,
46:00
and they are pretty impressive, the drone shows.
46:04
So I hope that, you know, I don't
46:06
think we need to have one size fits
46:08
all on the coast, but as we move
46:12
towards, as the technology improves, I'd like to
46:15
see more of the drone proposals.
46:19
Our local jurisdiction in Sonoma County did realize
46:23
that the cost is still quite prohibitive to
46:26
transition to a drone show, and so we
46:28
ultimately decided to stay with our fireworks display,
46:32
which was under $50,000, and to transition
46:35
to drone at this time would have been
46:37
over $150,000, so more than triple the
46:40
cost for our local jurisdiction, and also just
46:43
to note that actually it was the veterans
46:45
groups who were the most vocal in asking
46:48
us to keep the fireworks.
46:49
It was a 4th of July display, and
46:51
so just some interesting nuance to the conversation
46:54
that I'd add, and we've also seen some
46:56
really incredible drone shows in our region in
46:59
Northern California.
47:00
We'd love to see more of those, and
47:01
I wanted to second the comments by Commissioner
47:03
Wilson in just that if we can reach
47:05
out to our partners in the legislature to
47:09
ask them to look at environmental concerns around
47:12
fireworks, obviously the loss of lives at the
47:15
fireworks storage facility in Northern California should not
47:18
go unmentioned.
47:19
That was a truly tragic incident, which is
47:23
still under investigation, but we know that obviously
47:27
the storage of fireworks as well as the
47:29
environmental concerns and some of the ingredients that
47:32
are used in the creation of these can
47:34
certainly be improved upon.
47:36
We should never just rest on our laurels,
47:38
especially when lives are lost.
47:41
Wow.
47:43
I had to laugh because she's a really
47:46
good politician.
47:47
She covered everybody.
47:47
If you're for them, if you're against them,
47:50
if you're a veteran, first of all, I'd
47:52
like to point out that the Veterans Administration
47:56
issues warnings when fireworks don't feel like freedom,
48:02
PTSD awareness and coping during Independence Day, and
48:06
it talks about all the ways intense reactions
48:09
to loud noises, feeling jumpy, emotionally detached, flashbacks
48:14
that make past trauma feel immediate, feeling unable
48:17
to control surroundings, resorting to alcohol or drugs
48:20
to dull, unwanted memories.
48:22
Oh, yeah, that's really popular amongst the veterans.
48:26
I mean, you can get somebody to say
48:30
anything about anybody, about anything, right?
48:35
I mean, you can find somebody to endorse
48:37
your position within a certain group, right?
48:40
That's how it works.
48:43
But I did want to compliment Anne Nothoff
48:46
because I think, Marcia, that was a very
48:49
brave comment.
48:50
Even though it seemed sort of milquetoast, it
48:52
was actually very brave for her to sort
48:55
of buck the trend and say, you know
48:57
what?
48:57
Maybe we got to start looking at these
49:00
drone shows.
49:03
Yeah, I think that Anne Nothoff, she used
49:08
to work for the Natural Resources Defense Council,
49:11
so she was an advocate for the environment
49:13
for many years in Sacramento, and now she
49:16
has been appointed to the Coastal Commission.
49:20
And so it's great that she acknowledged that
49:25
maybe we really shouldn't be, we should be
49:27
looking at something else.
49:29
And this is a real sea change, very
49:32
different than what I was hearing 20 years
49:35
ago.
49:35
I would barely even admit to a neighbor
49:38
that I was concerned about the fireworks, whereas
49:41
now I think more there's just, because we're
49:44
so connected by social media, I think there's
49:47
more and more acknowledgement that there is a
49:51
concern.
49:52
And I just want to say also, you
49:54
brought up the mass extinction, Jane, and that's
49:58
so important.
49:59
And we here in Los Angeles, in Southern
50:02
California, we are in the middle of the
50:04
Pacific Flyway.
50:06
There are birds that fly through here and
50:09
to here that come all the way from
50:12
the Arctic Circle, all the way from Chile
50:16
to the South.
50:18
There's different migration pathways that they come and
50:22
go on, and our wetlands, our coastal areas
50:26
are essential stopping places for them.
50:30
And so when the buffalo had ducks, for
50:32
instance, they come here, a couple hundred of
50:35
them every year.
50:36
They come from Canada, from the lakes in
50:38
Canada where they're born, and we saw them
50:41
on New Year's Eve when the fireworks went
50:44
off.
50:44
They were just flying around like they were
50:47
out of their minds.
50:48
It was so, you could see the fear,
50:52
and it was one of the biggest shocks
50:55
to me to wake me up when I
50:58
first saw that.
50:59
And we don't even know, because as you
51:02
say, the biologists aren't out there.
51:04
We have one naturalist, Jonathan Coffin, who is
51:07
out there every year, and he has picked
51:10
up and brought many, many birds to the
51:12
rehab facilities that were talked about earlier.
51:16
So we really do need more, we need
51:19
some more science, or we just need to
51:22
start telling our politician leaders that we don't
51:26
want this anymore.
51:27
Yeah, but I guess what I'm saying is
51:31
that I've attended so many, California Coastal Commission,
51:36
Coastal Conservancy, and various other meetings, that I
51:40
realize everybody marches in lockstep.
51:43
They're all kind of, correct me if I'm
51:45
wrong, okay, because you're the experts, but my
51:48
observation is they're all appointed, everybody kind of
51:51
knows which way the wind's blowing as far
51:53
as politically smart, and people feel like if
51:57
they step out, they're taking a risk.
52:01
And yet, that's what we need these folks
52:04
to do.
52:04
It's the California Coastal Commission, not the California
52:08
Fireworks Commission.
52:10
I want to do a round robin, we're
52:13
just about at the end of our hour,
52:15
I hope this has been informative to people.
52:18
If you're upset about this, as I am,
52:21
just sign this petition right now, bit.ly
52:25
forward slash stop fireworks, and we are going
52:29
to effort, Marsha Hanscom created the, she created
52:33
this petition, we're going to effort taking it
52:35
to some movers and shakers, people who can
52:38
make these decisions.
52:39
I want to say one other thing, this
52:41
idea that, oh, it's so expensive, you know
52:46
what?
52:47
When you see the wild amounts of money
52:50
that local and federal governments spend on very
52:54
questionable projects, the idea that California, the fourth
52:59
largest economy in the world, can't get together
53:02
and figure out a way to maybe achieve
53:04
economies of scale by having several cities get
53:07
together and saying, hey, we'll make a deal,
53:11
we'll put it in Capitola, I'm talking about
53:14
the drone shows, we'll put it in Capitola,
53:16
we'll put it in Long Beach, we'll put
53:17
it in Marina Del Rey, we'll do 4th
53:19
of July, we'll do Christmas, let's make a
53:21
deal and we can lower the price using
53:25
economies of scale.
53:26
I don't think the idea that these are
53:29
a little bit more expensive now should be
53:32
the defining issue when fireworks kill 10 people,
53:38
when fireworks are traumatizing citizens who have pets,
53:42
which is a huge percentage of the voters,
53:46
when we're destroying wildlife, where we're poisoning our
53:50
waters and our oceans.
53:54
I want to get Natalie, because you're deep
53:57
in the politics of this in that you've
53:58
been to court.
54:00
Do you think something like that could be
54:02
achieved, a deal?
54:05
We get these companies together and say, let's
54:07
do it for up and down the state.
54:11
I will say that the courtroom doesn't have
54:13
a lot of impact on something like that.
54:17
But what I also will say is that,
54:20
well, a couple of things.
54:21
One, drone shows are not necessarily more expensive.
54:24
Fireworks are expensive.
54:26
Getting a barge out there, having thousands of
54:29
tons of explosives, all of the hazardous life
54:32
cycle of the explosives, it adds up.
54:36
Secondly, someplace like SeaWorld that's doing 150 shows
54:40
per year, it would actually probably be cheaper
54:44
for them to buy one-time drones and
54:48
be able to shoot those off continuously, right?
54:50
So each show is using the same drone,
54:53
and you're not buying new fireworks every single
54:57
time that you want to launch fireworks.
54:59
So over time, it would be cheaper.
55:01
And in terms of economies of scale and
55:06
cities getting together, I can't comment on that.
55:10
But if a city, an individual city, is
55:13
using the same contractor for all of its
55:16
celebrations, they could probably, on micro economies of
55:20
scale, do it that way.
55:22
There might be some issues with cities getting
55:26
together.
55:28
They all have their different ordinances and their
55:30
different policies at play.
55:32
So that's my first thought there.
55:35
I think what you're saying is brilliant.
55:38
What you said is you got to buy
55:40
fireworks every year.
55:41
If you get the drone package, you could
55:45
have those over and over again.
55:48
They do not disappear the way fireworks do.
55:53
Disappear in terms of just crumbling into the
55:57
ocean and then poisoning our ocean.
56:00
All right.
56:00
I want to get final thoughts.
56:03
Why don't we start with you, Roy, your
56:05
final thoughts as we wrap up this very
56:07
important hour, speaking for voiceless animals who cannot
56:10
speak for themselves.
56:13
Okay.
56:14
We could say we need more animal whisperers,
56:16
scientists that are experts in this.
56:18
This is an animal behavior.
56:21
There's a lot of good people there.
56:24
This idea that you can just do an
56:26
environmental economics, which I've dappled in a little
56:29
bit when brought in as a scientist to
56:31
that field of an economics.
56:33
You can't just do a simple cost of
56:36
the fireworks versus the drone.
56:39
You have to do a cost benefit analysis
56:41
and look at other tangential costs that happen
56:45
afterwards, like the water pollution, the air pollution,
56:48
the noise pollution, doctors, people bringing their pets
56:50
to veterinarians, the cost to the International Wildlife
56:54
Rescue Center, other places.
56:56
If you add up all those other kinds
56:59
of costs and a true genuine cost benefit
57:03
analysis, I think there's no unquestionable that drones
57:06
are going to be the big winner.
57:10
Actually, that really needs to be done.
57:16
Can I just say, love nature is important.
57:19
All right, Christina Koo, your thoughts, your final
57:22
thoughts.
57:24
Yes.
57:25
I actually personally feel like the situation can
57:28
make some headway with some of the business
57:31
deals that can be done with these drone
57:34
companies to really meet with them and look
57:36
at the figures.
57:37
I don't think we've explored that as much
57:40
yet.
57:40
I'm personally curious to do that.
57:43
We can get subsidies for some of these
57:45
drone shows by wildlife experts or protectors and
57:52
philanthropists to do some trials and tests at
57:55
certain areas, testing out these drones.
57:58
I really think it can come down to
58:00
business deals being made and bypass the courts
58:02
and all the government agencies and regulations that
58:05
may take years and don't seem to have
58:09
a system that is right now really advantageous
58:12
to banning these fireworks.
58:14
I don't think we can wait till 2028.
58:17
I don't want to wait till 2028.
58:20
I don't want to ever see fireworks here.
58:22
I know I speak for a lot of
58:23
my neighbors.
58:25
Anne Cantrell, final thought.
58:28
I'd like to address the cost.
58:31
The Los Rios Wetlands Land Trust contacted a
58:36
drone show operator in San Diego, Jeff Stein,
58:40
and got him to come up and give
58:44
the Big Bang on the Bay an estimate
58:51
of doing a drone show instead of fireworks
58:55
on July 4th.
58:58
They would be able to do a 15
59:01
-minute drone show for $60,000.
59:07
We understood that fireworks cost $40,000 for
59:14
this show, but they also had all the
59:17
costs of hiring biologists before and after the
59:22
show.
59:22
They had to get permits from various agencies.
59:26
They had divers go in after the show
59:31
to clean up the trash in the water
59:35
and clean up the trash on the land.
59:38
So as Roy said, this cost-benefit analysis,
59:45
I'm sure that drone shows would, if not
59:48
be cheaper, they would be as comparable to
59:53
what fireworks still cost.
1:00:01
The sound.
1:00:05
Your final thought.
1:00:09
Are you asking me?
1:00:10
Yes, Anna.
1:00:11
Sorry.
1:00:11
Well, I can't let this pass without mentioning
1:00:16
settler colonialism and the attitude that the people
1:00:22
who came here from other places have decided
1:00:27
that they are now in charge of both
1:00:29
the past, the present, and the future at
1:00:32
the expense of the planet.
1:00:33
Maybe it's birdwalking, but when you bring up
1:00:36
the sixth great extinction, we know that this
1:00:40
is our future.
1:00:41
If not personally, it's our species' future.
1:00:45
It's the planet's future.
1:00:47
Is this the future we ask, we want?
1:00:49
When you think about tribal people, indigenous people
1:00:52
all over the world talking about seven generations,
1:00:54
thinking about what your decision today means for
1:00:57
seven generations, we're not thinking like that.
1:00:59
We not only have to stop fireworks.
1:01:01
We have to stop a settler mentality that
1:01:04
is so overwhelmingly arrogant that it leads to
1:01:07
the destruction of all.
1:01:09
We just don't have that.
1:01:10
We don't have that right as human beings
1:01:13
to destroy this world, this beautiful world that
1:01:16
creator has given us.
1:01:18
So I would ask all these people to
1:01:21
contact agencies and ask for some accountability to
1:01:24
the seventh generation in the future.
1:01:27
Thank you.
1:01:28
I love that.
1:01:29
Somebody was texting or posting, can anyone sign?
1:01:34
Yes.
1:01:35
This planet belongs to all of us.
1:01:36
If you're in Chicago, you can sign.
1:01:38
We're trying to stop the fireworks to save
1:01:41
species that can fly.
1:01:44
So they don't know state boundaries or municipal
1:01:48
boundaries.
1:01:50
All right.
1:01:50
Final thought.
1:01:51
Marsha Hanscom.
1:01:55
Everybody, everyone here needs to sign this petition.
1:01:59
They're talking about using these fireworks to draw
1:02:03
in tourists from around the world.
1:02:05
So everyone is a stakeholder.
1:02:10
And I also want to say what I
1:02:12
say to every activist that I try to
1:02:15
get involved with things like this, and that
1:02:17
is constant pressure endlessly applied.
1:02:21
Keep going back.
1:02:23
Keep going back to the officials and speaking
1:02:26
during public comment, because that is what is
1:02:28
moving the needle and getting people like Ann
1:02:31
Nodoff to be able to have the courage
1:02:34
that she did to say what she said.
1:02:37
Well, you know, I have to bring up
1:02:39
a point here.
1:02:42
They didn't want comment.
1:02:45
They said that this was, what do they
1:02:47
call it?
1:02:48
Upon consent?
1:02:49
Yes.
1:02:50
Okay.
1:02:51
So when we waited hours to comment, it
1:02:54
was announced during the meeting, oh, there's no
1:02:57
need for public comment.
1:02:58
And you spoke and said, Marsha, you said,
1:03:02
there's all these people lined up to comment
1:03:04
about this fireworks issue, and you can't say
1:03:07
that it's going to go straight to consent
1:03:09
when there's all these people lined up.
1:03:12
Thank God for you, because we might not
1:03:14
have even had the opportunity to speak had
1:03:16
you not kind of thrown a little wrench
1:03:19
in their plans.
1:03:21
And we see this all the time.
1:03:23
I just want to tell you, I'm relatively
1:03:25
new to this, like eight years I've been
1:03:27
attending these hearings.
1:03:28
But Marsha has been attending them and Roy
1:03:31
and all of you for a lot longer.
1:03:33
And I am shocked, shocked at the games
1:03:36
they play.
1:03:37
Moving the item that they know is controversial
1:03:40
back to like after lunch, knowing that people
1:03:44
can't wait around all day.
1:03:46
Then when you've prepared, oh, a two minute
1:03:48
speech, oh, no, we're going to give you
1:03:50
one minute each.
1:03:51
I mean, there's a lot of games that
1:03:55
are played that I've personally observed to try
1:03:58
to keep people quiet.
1:04:00
And, you know, we've done an end run.
1:04:02
I mean, I have spent many hours waiting
1:04:04
to do my little two minutes that becomes
1:04:06
one minute on one computer while I'm working
1:04:09
on a second computer monitoring it, because I
1:04:12
think it's that important because the animals cannot
1:04:14
speak for themselves.
1:04:16
But that's something that's got to go.
1:04:18
I mean, we're hip to those tricks and
1:04:21
it's not going to work.
1:04:24
Ultimately, it just really aggravates me even more
1:04:29
personally, speaking from a personal perspective there.
1:04:32
These agencies report to us ultimately, and that's
1:04:37
what I think they've forgotten to a certain
1:04:40
degree.
1:04:41
Nancy, I'm sorry, Natalie, your final thoughts as
1:04:45
an attorney who has had a lot of
1:04:47
success on this issue.
1:04:50
I think it goes hand in hand with
1:04:52
what you just said, which is when you
1:04:55
see evidence of fireworks, take pictures, whether it
1:04:59
be a bird washed up on the shore
1:05:00
after July 4th or fireworks debris washed up
1:05:03
on the shore, because we use that.
1:05:06
We use, you never know what might come
1:05:09
in handy as evidence in the courtroom or
1:05:12
as evidence to your policy makers to advocate
1:05:16
that they're violating the law or should not
1:05:17
be allowed to do something.
1:05:19
And to your point about transparency and Coastal
1:05:23
Commission or whoever, whatever agency, if something seems
1:05:28
fishy, report it to an attorney.
1:05:32
There might be, I don't think that sounds
1:05:35
illegal, but sometimes there's violations of the Brown
1:05:38
Act or violations of a Public Records Act
1:05:42
request that might be out there that govern
1:05:44
and require and hold these agencies accountable to
1:05:48
us.
1:05:48
So don't be afraid to ask a local
1:05:51
attorney if that was legal.
1:05:53
If something seems weird to you that a
1:05:55
local agency did, it might not be.
1:05:59
And same with other types of pollution, last
1:06:01
thought.
1:06:02
It's not just fireworks that are killing our
1:06:05
wetlands and our ecosystems and all of that.
1:06:08
So if you spot a source of pollution,
1:06:10
bring it up to a local non-profit
1:06:12
working in your area, and maybe they can
1:06:15
do something about it.
1:06:17
And final thought from Christina Koo, unmute.
1:06:23
Hi, yes.
1:06:25
So I still really firmly believe that we
1:06:29
can use other routes to end this situation,
1:06:34
which is through a lot of community education.
1:06:37
And we did that recently by actually going
1:06:40
to neighborhoods by the Bayona wetlands and actually
1:06:45
made a lot of good contacts, resources.
1:06:48
And we learned that folks are very supportive
1:06:50
of protecting the environment, the wetlands, and I
1:06:53
think they can assist with this whole fireworks
1:06:56
issues as well.
1:06:57
So I think with community efforts and individuals
1:07:00
and philanthropists and people who can donate to
1:07:03
these causes and working along with these new
1:07:06
drone companies, I think we just may be
1:07:10
making some progress.
1:07:12
I will say that there's always going to
1:07:14
be people who object to progress.
1:07:18
I think of that show, Downton Abbey, when
1:07:20
they brought in refrigerators or the ice box
1:07:24
or whatever, and Mrs. Patmore was very upset.
1:07:29
Well, what's going to happen now?
1:07:30
You know, it's just human nature that people
1:07:35
resist something that happens that is replacing something
1:07:40
that they're comfortable with.
1:07:42
But honestly, as just politics, even wildlife aside,
1:07:49
I'm so sick of these fireworks shows.
1:07:52
As a consumer, as if I were a
1:07:55
tourist or just a person wanting to be
1:07:57
entertained, I would find a drone show so
1:08:00
much more entertaining.
1:08:02
It's new.
1:08:02
It's different.
1:08:03
How many fireworks shows do I need to
1:08:05
see in my lifetime?
1:08:07
You know, so I think that there is
1:08:10
so much possibility here.
1:08:12
We have to open our minds and we
1:08:14
have to open our hearts.
1:08:16
And we have to, as Marcia said, be
1:08:19
relentless because these pelicans and egrets and cormorants
1:08:22
and white-tailed hawks and even the seagulls,
1:08:26
they cannot speak for themselves.
1:08:28
Okay?
1:08:29
We have to be their voice and we
1:08:31
are going to stay on top of this
1:08:33
issue.
1:08:33
So I want to thank everybody for joining
1:08:36
this emergency town hall.
1:08:39
We will stay on top of this issue.
1:08:41
This is not the end of it.
1:08:42
We'll keep you posted.
1:08:54
It's just a nightmare.
1:09:21
So that's it.
1:09:22
Okay, let's see if we're still on the
1:09:24
air or not.