Latest / QUESTION EVERYTHING / The Audacity to Want More: with Bozoma Saint John

Transcript

The Audacity to Want More: with Bozoma Saint John · QUESTION EVERYTHING

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: No one has all the answers, but when we ask
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: the right questions, we get a little closer, closer to truths,
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: closer to each other, even closer to ourselves. I'm journalist
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Danielle Robe, and each week, my guests and I come
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: together to challenge the status quo and our own ways
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: of thinking by daring to ask what if, why not?
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: And who says?
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: So?
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: Come curious, dig deep, and join the conversation.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: It's time to question everything. Hello, I hope you're having
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: a really great day. I am recording in New York.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: I'm here doing a panel for Digni Dover, which is
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: a company that has three amazing female founders. They were
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: actually on the podcast the first year that it was up,
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: in twenty twenty one, and I've kept in touch with
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: them ever since. I mean, you guys probably know this
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: from listening. I'm obsessed with their travel bag. I use
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: the XL in black. It's like scuba suit material, and
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: so I've had it since twenty twenty and it looks
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: brand new.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: It's amazing.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Anyways, I'm in New York doing a panel for Women's
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Day with them, and then I'm headed off to south
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: By Southwest so I'll report back next week, but in
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: the meantime before we jump into today's episode, I just
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: want to remind everybody that, and especially because it's Women's Month,
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: I feel like this is a great moment. I chat
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: with one of you every single week. So if you
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: send me a screen shot at Hello at bprettysmart dot
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: com or Danielle at bprettysmart dot com, whichever email you want,
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: and send me a screenshot of you either writing a
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: writing a review, or sending an episode to two of
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: your friends, we enter you in a raffle and I
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: talk with one person on Zoom every single week. It's
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: one of the highlights of my week. And I've kept
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: in touch with so many of you. So if you're
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: interested in that, and if you feel like I can
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: add value to your life in any way, or we
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: can talk through any big personal or professional decisions, or
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: you just need a sounding board, or maybe I know
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: someone that can help that's there for you. Okay, today's
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: episode is you know. I don't like to pick favorites
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: because it's like picking your favorite child, but I have
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: to tell you it made a real impact on me.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: I've been thinking about this woman's words since we spoke,
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: She's the real deal.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: I've been reflecting lately.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: I feel like I'm in a little bit of a
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: transitional mode personally, and I've just been thinking about what
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: i want my life to feel like, because if we
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: think about what it really takes to build a life
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: that's both big and meaningful, and I don't mean one
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: that just looks impressive on paper, you know, the ones
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: stacked with titles or accolades or highlight real moments.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about a life.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: That actually feels full and rich and really urgent to
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: the person living it. I think it's really easy to
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: celebrate ambition when we're looking at it from the outside.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: Our culture really admires people who take big risks, people
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: who break barriers, who seem to have it all figured out.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: We idolize the first, the only, the best, and we
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: put their success stories on magazine covers and write books
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: about their journeys and study their routines like there's.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: Some sort of magic formula that we can all follow.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: And then I had the sort of like realization a
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: few years ago because I was at dinner with my
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: friend Katie and Kim Kardashian's now infamous quote had just
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: gone viral, you know, the one where she says, like,
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: get your fucking ass up and work.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: And I don't curse on this podcast that much, but
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: I did just now, and I remember talking to Katie
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: about it and being like, I I kind of agree
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: with her, like if you want.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: Something, you got to go get it, and Katie, without
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: missing a beat, said, I don't know, her life looks exhausting,
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: and it stopped me dead in my tracks because she
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: wasn't wrong. But to me, Kim's life looked exciting, and
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: that's when something clicked in me. We were looking at
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: the same life but seeing completely different things. What felt
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: exciting to me felt draining to her. And it made
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: me wonder, what do I actually want? What excites me
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: not just in theory but in practice. What kind of work,
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: what kind of pace? What kind of ambition actually feels
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: good to me the person living my life? And I
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: don't think we ask ourselves those questions enough. We chase success,
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: and we chase approval and the version of ambition that
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: we've been taught to admire without stopping to ask if
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: it actually fits us. I think it can go for
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: parenthood too, even like what kind of motherhood or thought
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: parenthood are you actually interested in? And instead we hear
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: these same messages right like dream big, go after what
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: you want, be fearless, and I believe all those things
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: if that's what you want. But success never comes in
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: a straight line. We tell these stories about success that
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: if you work hard enough and you dream big enough
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: and you want it badly enough, that you'll get there,
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: and that those who make it, those whose names shine
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: in headlines and history books, are simply extraordinary. But the
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: truth is more complicated. I've learned that from interviewing successful
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: people over and over again. The truth about standing in
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: rooms that weren't built for you, the truth about choosing
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: yourself again and again when the world tells you to shrink,
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: The truth of pushing past every limit and every closed
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: door and every whispered doubt, not just from others but
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: from yourself. The truth sometimes is what we don't hear,
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: what does it make it into those inspirational sound bites,
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: is that ambition has a real cost, and we don't
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: talk enough, not just about how to get there, but
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: what it takes, what it demands. And I'm gonna be
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: honest sometimes what it steals from you. And then I
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: think the bigger question, the one that lingers long past
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: the trophies have been collected and the accolades are written
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: and the LinkedIn updates are posted. Was it worth it?
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: Our guest today, Bozama Saint John knows the answer. She's
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: built a life that's not just big, but urgent, not
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: just impressive but meaningful. She's been the only black woman
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: in rooms where power is negotiated. She's shaped culture from
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: the inside of some of the biggest companies in the
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: world Pepsi, Apple, Uber, Netflix, Endeavor. She's worked alongside Beyonce
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: Spike Lee, Jimmy Iveen, Ari, Emmanuel Read Hastings. She's built
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: billion dollar brands and shifted industries and literally rewritten the rules.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: And now she's stepping into an entirely new arena.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: She's an entrepreneur and educator and even the newest cast
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: member on the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. And yet
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: when I asked her if she would do it all again,
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: knowing all the sacrifices and the loneliness and the weight
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: of it all, she didn't hesitate, and she said this,
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: I would.
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: I do it again. M hmm, it's too hard. It's
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: too hard, it's too it's just too hard.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: When I tell you, I was shocked and I have
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: been thinking about her words ever since, because Bozama tells
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: the truth about ambition, about grief, about reinvention, about anything
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: I asked her.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: She told me the truth.
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: It costs you friendships because you can't be light, because
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: you can't have people around you who aren't going to
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: tributing to your life in some sort of meaningful way.
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: And so the ambition requires that kind of precision, you know,
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: it requires people who will understand that you're going to
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: be focused on what you want to do and nothing else.
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: I'm living the life I want to live, and I'm
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: going to do everything that is required of me to
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: do it, and I'm singularly focused on that, and so
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: that sometimes means that I can't do the thing you
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: want me to do. But girl, if I could have
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: been on the inside, if I could have been well
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: liked and pat it on the back and like, good job,
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: bos I would have taken that. Who wouldn't.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: But Bose has never been someone to wait for an invitation.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: In fact, when it came time for her latest reinvention,
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: and she thought about where she wanted to work. Instead
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: of fighting for space in someone else's vision, she designed
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: her own. Her latest venture, Eve by Bose isn't just
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: a business, it's a reclamation. It's a new blueprint for
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: what's possible. She'll explain it more in detail in our conversation.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: But she did something huge, something that nobody has done before.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: She opened a factory in Ghana, blending African beauty traditions
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: with cutting edge science and creating a brand that doesn't
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: just sell products, but it does what Bo's does best.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: It tells stories.
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: Why don't they make lace that matches? Like the range
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: of skin colors. If I had just kept it there,
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: then perhaps in China there would have been, you know,
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: ways of making the product that I would have just
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: gone with because that's just the way people do it.
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: But when I took it out of the environment, put
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: over here and I'm asking questions.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: And while she's in build mode, she built something else too,
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: the Badass Workshop, where she's teaching women how to take
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: up space, how to own their confidence and say yes
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: to the life that they actually want. And today she
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: is bringing all of that energy here in this conversation.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: We're talking about the real cost of ambition, the secret
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: form formula for success that nobody talks about. Why she
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: convinced Spike Lee to cast Beyonce in a pepsiad, which
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: is a decision that changed both of their careers. What
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: she learned from some of the most powerful people in business,
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: how to know when you have a good idea, and
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: maybe most importantly, how to live with urgency. And at
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: the heart of this conversation is a question, how do
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: you build a bold, uncompromising life and still have something
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: left for yourself. This is a conversation about ambition, about
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: what it really takes to succeed, not just in the
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: eyes of the world, but in the deepest, quietest corners
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: of your own soul. So it's time to question everything
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: with Bozoma Saint John.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: Let's begin.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: So you just turned forty eight, yes, ma'am, and I
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: heard you're about to forty eight?
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: Eighty eight? What are you eating this yet?
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: Ooh? Everything? You know? I feel like life is a
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: great buffet. It is, you know, there's all these little
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: experiences that you could have, but it's really your choice
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: on what it is that you go for. And so
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: I'm at the buffet, and I don't want to get
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: like so full that I'm sick. But I'm not leaving hungry,
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying. So I'm taking everything that
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: I want to out of this year, like taking it intentionally,
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: all the little bits, a little bit a sweet, a
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: little bit of savory, a little bit of healthy, a
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: little bit naughty.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: Can't all be healthy? You need a little dessert.
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: Why would you want to be healthy all the time?
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: Absolutely not.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: I was going to save this for the end, But
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: you're reminding me of spotaph at the beginning of your book. Yes,
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: it's so gorgeous that Diane Hackerman quote.
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: No, I love that quote. Like the first time I
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: read it, it took my breath away.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: I never heard it, Yeah until I opened your book,
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: and I cried when I read it.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: Yes, even before reading your story.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it says I don't want to get to the
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: end of my life and find that I have just
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: lived the length of it.
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: I want to have lived the width of it as well.
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the with like when you think about that, it's
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: like we always praise when people have lived to like
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: ninety nine and one hundred, one hundred and one and
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: you're like, oh my god, they lived such a long life,
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: how amazing. But do you know actually if they lived
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: all of those hundred years. You know, it drove me
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: crazy when people said of my husband that, like, oh man,
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: he only lived to almost forty four, Like how terribly
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: sad that his life was cut so short. Yeah, And
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: it didn't drive me crazy because I didn't think it
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: was true. I do think it's true that his life
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: was cut short, that it was unfair that he died
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: so young relatively. Yeah, but it drove me crazy because
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: I knew there were so many things he wanted to
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: do still, you know, that there was life that he
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: wanted to experience still, and that he wouldn't have the
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: opportunity to do that. And so when I read Diane
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: Ackerman's quote about the width of life, it changed my
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: perspective on life because I thought, well, then, how can
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: I live my life in a way that is not
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: just going to be about the years I've lived. I
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: don't want anybody to look at my life at the
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: end of it and say, oh, man, she could have
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: done more.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: I don't think anyone's saying that about you, But.
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: I think it's a choice. Yes, it is a choice
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: every day to make sure that happens.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: Did it change your rubric of yes and no?
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: Not? His death did not change that I have been
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: that way, Yeah, but it just changed the urgency with
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: which I do it, so meaning that I've always been
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: pretty exacting about what I want in my life. I've
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: been able to say no about things for almost the
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: entirety of my life. But it changed how I look
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: at time, you know, in that now it was like, oh, okay,
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: I don't want to wait until retirement to do whatever
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: thing it was. I don't want to wait six months
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: for my boss to review the work I've done and
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: tell me now I deserve a race, not if I
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: think I deserve a race today, you know, like it
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: just changed my relationship with time. It wasn't necessarily about
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: how I want to live.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: Part of that to me is like your audaciousness.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: And when I was reading your book that had to
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: come from your parents, Like I loved that your dad
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: would not give you an American name, right when everybody
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: was given an English name and a Ghanaian name, and
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: he was like, no, you are Bose.
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean the foundation of my
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: life of course, is from my parents and further back
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: in the DNA. You know, I don't really subscribe to
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: the fact that like, oh, you make your life the
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: way it is. No, of course, you're starting with something,
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: you know, so there's a little bit of the nature
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: and there's some nurture which then allows you to be
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: the person that you are. And so the nurture part
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: of my life has for sure come from my parents,
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: who set a standard which let me know that, look,
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: I'm important in the world, and that excellence was not
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: at all an option. It was the only way. Yeah,
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: it was like, look, my dad was the one that
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: when I said, oh you know what, I really loved
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: to draw, and you know, I'm just sort of doodling,
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: he put me in an art contest when I was five.
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: I want it, by the way, it was like printing
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: in the local paper. And he was so happy about that.
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: He was like this, no five year old girl who
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: like won the art contest. Or It's like when I said, oh,
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: you know what, I really love science, He's like, okay, great,
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: then you're going to be a doctor. I mean, there
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: was nothing that I could say that he wouldn't then say, okay,
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: then you're going to go to the very top of
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: the thing, right.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: It was there at one hundred.
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: There was never the middle was never a consideration. So
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: it wasn't even just like, oh, you know what, like good,
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: good job, good enough. And so that has its positives,
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: and of course it has its negatives because that just
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: meant that there was never anything that I could do
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: or that I wanted to do which would just be
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: sort of casual. Everything had excellence associated with it.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: So you go to college and you are obsessed with
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: hip hop and Tupac in particular, and you put together
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: this course to teach people about Tupac.
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: That's correct.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: Why Tupac? What did he hid in you? Like? What
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: did you take from his music?
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: Gosh, that's a good question. I don't know why Tupac.
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: I just think his artistry and his poetic nature of
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: his lyrics spoke to me. You know. I think when
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: you ask people like who's your favorite artist or who's
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: your favorite poet or your favorite author, I don't that
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: you can like logically explain why that is. It's just
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: something about the way they put words together. But the
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: way they put the experience together speaks to you and
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: Tupac did that for me, like I felt like he,
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: of course, at the time, was a little bit older
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: than me, and so I felt he was so wise.
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: But now I look back and I'm just like, oh
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: my god, he was like in his early twenties, are
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: you crazy?
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: Like it was so wise.
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: He was so wise. It's so young, you know.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: He talked about the female experience a lot too, which
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: is interesting.
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: But I liked the complexity of him, Like even at
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: that time, I loved the complexity, like thinking that like, Okay,
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: here's this gangster rapper who loves poetry. Here's this man
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: who talks about bitches and hoes. But yet he's saying
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: keep your head up, Like what what is this complex
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: human being who can be so many things? And he
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: was totally unapologetic about it. He didn't say like, oh no,
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: I never said that. No, He's like, yeah, I did
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: say it. I said it, and I said this other
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: thing too, which is totally contradictory the thing I said before,
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: and he was fine with it.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: Do you think that inspired you when you walked into
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: these boardrooms and everyone was dressed in like beige suits
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: and you come in in these fly outfits in your makeup,
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: and you were like, yeah, I'm.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: Going to be the contradiction.
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think, but I think it's an amalgamation of
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: all the things. You know. It's my parents who were
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: completely unapologetic about their africanness. You know. It was Tony
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: Morrison who would write and her words never spoke to
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: the basic She was like, you're going to ride to
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: the level I'm on, and you're going to have to
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: read this six times in order to even understand what
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: the hell I'm talking about. You know, it was Tupac
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: with his like brashness. There was so many parts of
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: people I admire who then spoke to the part of
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: me that already existed. And that's what I mean about
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: the difference of nature and nurture. I believe that that
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: audaciousness already lives in me. It was just encouraged by
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: the external factors that were influences to help me feel
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: like okay, like it's actually all right.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you said that marketing and branding are all about reputation,
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: and I'm dying to know the origin of Badass Bows
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: because that really, that was a brand before marketers were
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: branding themselves.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, where did that come from?
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: You know what's so funny. So before Badass Bows, I
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: used to be known as Stilettobosi.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: If you ever want to become a rapper, it's a
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: great name.
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: And it was so funny. There's actually this woman who
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: I worked with at Apple who loved that so much.
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: But you just called me Stiletto. Yeah. And the thing
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: is like, look, nobody gave me nicknames. I gave them
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: to myself. Yeah, walk them to me. I was just like, oh, hi,
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: how are you Hi, I'm Stiletto, you know, just in
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: case you were unaware. It was like both for my
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: heels and also I will shank you so fast, like,
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: don't even try to cross me. You don't do it.
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: Don't do it. You we dead, don't do it. You know,
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: have a nice smile and all that, but don't play
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: with me.
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: It's a warning.
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So it was a persona like almost like okay,
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: look you want to know who I am, I'll tell
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: you in one word. And then I felt like maybe
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: Stiletto was a little too violent. Seemed a little softer,
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: it seemed a little kinder.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: I like that a lot.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: I was thinking about that when I read about you
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: working with Spike Lee because you had that same there's
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: this word in I don't know, like the American or
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: English translation, but in Yiddish it's like hutzpah, like the
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: god you know, and like you.
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: Walk in Spike Lee's office. You're supposed to be this temp.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: For a few days, yeah, and you're there for a
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: few years and you end up giving him notes yes
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: on his work.
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: Look, first of all, let me tell you, I feel
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: like I must have been Yiddish in a former life. Please,
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: the way that I love the Yiddish words. Okay, the
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: brilliance of Yiddish words. It's specially so good because it's
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: like there are things that you know, like you hear
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: the word and you can feel it. Yes, you don't
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: even know the translation. You could just see well said,
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: oh man, I love it. But yes, the hood spot
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: being able to a naivete. By the way, so hoodspan
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: naivete are a dangerous combination, ah, because that's what allows
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: you to do the things that like when you look back,
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: you're like, oh my god, I can't even believe I
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: did that, But you do it and it changes your life.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: That might be the equation for a badass.
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: Yes, and naivete. You don't know any better. You're like, well,
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: you know what, I might as well do this. It
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: seems like a good idea, and nobody's told me that
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: it's not a good idea, so then you do it,
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: and not even Tay I think has had a bad rap.
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: You know, people think it's equated with like stupidness or foolishness,
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: and it's not that. Naivete just means that you don't
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: know the opposite of the thing that you're doing. You
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: don't contemplate it.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: Yes, you know what I mean.
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: And so naivete is like, Okay, you walk to the
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: edge of a cliff and you jump off, Yeah, because
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: you didn't know that there was no bottom there.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know.
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: It's not that you were stupid, it's just you just
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: didn't know. And so like, how was I to know
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: that it was not proper to give a well awarded,
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: culture shifting, brilliant icon of a filmmaker notes on his screenplay,
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: I didn't know. I know you couldn't do that, so
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: I did. Today. It's a different story today. If you
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: sat me in front of Scorsese and said, hey, like
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: look at his script, I might be like, you know
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: what I think it's fine. I think it's okay. Whatever
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: you wrote is all right.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: But there's a magic to being young like that, Yes
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: you're able to because it's received.
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: Okay, it is. But I hope that, like all of us,
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: continue to tap into that. You know. Sometimes I remind
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: myself of that too, Like they say, you know, youth
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: is wasted all the young, and I'm like, no, no, no, no,
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: no no, it doesn't have to be wasted, like youth
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: can continue with you. I love when people say like, oh,
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: I'm young at heart, you know, because it makes me
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: feel like, okay, like you're still doing the things that
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: if you were young and naive you would do absolutely,
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: and that's what makes you brave. That's what gives you
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: like the crazy ideas that other people are just like, oh,
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: how how is she able to do that? Because I'm
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: young at heart, but I have the naivete still and
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: hootspot the hotspot.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: I had an intern one time and he walked in
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: in a suit. Yeah, no, everybody wore like, you know,
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: pajamas whatever.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: He walks in.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: A suit, and he was unbelievable. The first day, I
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: was like, you are going to be somebody in the world.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: I could just feel it. I feel like that's what
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: Spike must have felt about maybe when you look at
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: that experience in hindsight, even though it was like one
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: of your first jobs. Yeah, what do you think was
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: the main thing that you took with you throughout the
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: rest of your life?
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: Man, there was so many lessons, my god, you know,
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: so many Gosh, there were lessons I learned about myself
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: and how to be and then there were also lessons
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: I learned on how to be a leader from him
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: and from that experience, you know, say more well on
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: the ladder. He really was able to take ideas from anywhere,
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: you know, from any one. You know. It's like the
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: breakthrough moment for me in my career, I would say,
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: is the day when he was gathering ideas to pitch
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: to Pepsi for a new campaign that he was going
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: to shoot, and he asked everyone in the office to come,
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: you know with ideas on like who who the pop
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: star could be that would be the star of the
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: show or star of the commercial, and all of these
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: senior creatives were like looking at the billboard charts and
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: you know, trying to decipher like who could be because
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: it was like gonna follow Britney Spears, you know, and
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: at that time, it was like the height of the
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: celeb endorser, you know, the beautiful drink shot, like that
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: was the game changer for people's lives. Yeah, and I
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: had watched Beyonce in MTV's TV movie called Carmen.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: The Hip Hoptera, the Hip Hoppa can't forget it Girl.
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: But it was like panned by every critic. It was
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: like destroyed by everyone. It was just like she's trash,
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: She's never gonna make it, you know, She's not worth
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: her salt, like all of these stories. And I loved it.
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: I thought it was brilliant. I thought she was brilliant.
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: And I was sitting at the front desk of his agency.
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: I was answering phones, you know, I was twenty three
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: years old, and when he asked me who my contribution
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: would be to the list, I said Beyonce. And people
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: were laughing, you know, because it's like all the articles
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: had been written that she'd never made it. There'd never
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: been a successful solo artist coming out of a girl
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: group besides Diana Ross, you know. And I said Beyonce,
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: and I stood ten toes down. I was like, oh,
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: my gosh, she was brilliant. And here I go running
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: at the mouth. Yeah, you know, she was brilliant. It
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: was amazing she can sing so well. Oh my gosh,
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: he's a meaning man. And he went and watched it
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: and then came back and said, Bose has the right idea. Wow,
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: that could change my life. Not just because it gave
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: me the confidence to know that, like, look, my ideas
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: are probably good even against the person who's twenty years experience,
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: but because he understood that he didn't just have to
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: go to the senior leaders to ask their opinions, but
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: he could ask the assistant who was sitting at the
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: front desk.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: One other thing I took away from that story is
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: that just because people don't like something doesn't mean it's
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: a bad idea. Like, look how she impacted you. And
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: that sort of changed the trajectory of her career too.
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: Hell yeah, I did you know after that moment, right
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: and working through that commercial and all that, because then
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: I had a front row seat. It was my idea,
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: right PEPSI came in, stole me from Spike's agency right
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: to come work there, and over the course of the
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: next ten years, Beyonce and I did five deals together,
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: ended with the super Bowl in twenty thirteen. Her performance, like,
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: so it changed both of our lives. And I don't
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: know that without that experience, I am who I am.
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: And look, it might be a lot to say, but
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: I don't know if it doesn't change who she is.
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: Without those experiences.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: It would have changed, it would have been a different trajectory.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, when you were at PEPSI, you said that you
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: were an outsider. Everybody had an MBA, they'd come from
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: a really specific background. Do you think being an outsider,
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: so to speak, like gave you an edge there or
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: was it more difficult.
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: No, it's always difficult. It's very hard to be the
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: outsider because everybody has clicks. People feel comfortable in there
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: in this, you know, being an outsider, I'm not at
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: all going to lie and pretend like, oh yeah, you know,
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: I was just in there doing whatever I want. It's like,
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: it's dark, it's terrible. It's not a good place to
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: be now. But it's not impossible to not make an
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: impact or difference, clearly, but it is not the place
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: you want to be, and I wish it wasn't the
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: place I had to be.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: I like your honesty, because I think a lot of
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: people would say, like, I found my way around it.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: It gave me a different perspective.
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I had to. But girl, if I
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: could have been on the inside, if I could have
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: been well liked and pat it on the back and
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: like good job bos, I would have taken that. Who wouldn't.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: So it was around that time that your husband was
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: diagnosed with cancer.
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: Right, yes, twenty thirteen.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that urgency that you talked about. You guys
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: made a list. Yes, I love the list.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: I want to do this in my life.
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you should be, because when you write things down,
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: they're more likely to happen.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So tell me about the list you guys made.
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: Oh gosh, Well, the list had all kinds of things
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: on it, you know what I mean. Most of it
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: was simple, you know, things that you probably would not
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: put on a bucket list, right. You know people say
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: bucket list and it's like, you know, jump off the
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: bridge and I don't pull it like book at right,
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: crazy destination and I'm like, no, maybe it's just the
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: East Gelatto in little Italy, made by the guy who's
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: been there for fifty seven years.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: Right, you don't even have to go to Italy, Like you.
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: Don't have to go to Italy, you know what I mean.
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: It could just be the things that you really enjoy
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: that you want to do, but you have to make
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: it a real option to do it. You have to
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: make it intentional. And so the list was more about
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: the intentionality of doing the things that we want to
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: do together more so than it was about like doing
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: big and crazy things. And the intention was to have memory,
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: you know. And the gift from him to me was
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: that it was going to be my memory, not necessarily
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: that he was doing it for himself. Yo. I think
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: the honesty of it is that at the end of life,
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: and certainly at the end of his life, he didn't
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: care so much about, oh, this is the last time
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: I'm going to eat lasagna. It wasn't so much that
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: it was that he wanted to make sure I had
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: the memory of the last time he said Lazanna, Yo,
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: that was really the gift of it.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: You guys were going to get divorced or separated before
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: he was diagnosed.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: That must be so complicated.
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: Oh, I don't know if it's okay, But people don't
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: really ask you about that.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: Aspect of it.
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: No, they don't. I don't know why, Like.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: How does that? How did you feel it? How did
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: that impact the challenge of it?
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: Well, first of all, for anyone who's been in any
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: kind of relationship and he realized at some point that
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: you no longer want to be in it, it is
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: really tough. Yeah, you know, I don't like to come
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: grief and compare years and things like that, So I
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: don't care if you've been in a relationship for five
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: months or you get married to somebody for twenty five years. Yes,
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: of course the experiences matter and all those things, But
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: like that moment of knowing that you no longer want
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: to be in it and then having to communicate that
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: is so hard. It's like you put yourself in that
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: moment that you remember when you had to tell somebody
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: who loved you that you don't want to do this anymore.
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: Like that was certainly one of the hardest things that
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: I've ever done, especially knowing that he wanted so much
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: of the family unit and he wanted us, but I
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: no longer wanted us, Like our marriage had become so
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: fractured because of so much grief in it. You know,
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: it was like the struggle of the realizations of how
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: hard it is to be in an interracial relationship and
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: by cultural relationship where value systems don't necessarily match up
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: all the time. You know, And what had been, you know,
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: so exciting and adventurous when we were in our twenties
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: was a burden. In our thirties, we had lost a
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: child together. We had then struggled in a pregnancy together
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: where we were blaming each other for the things that
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: had gone wrong. You know, I was carrying around so
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: much guilt over the death of our daughter. It just
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: our relationship was not what it was, and I knew
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: that I couldn't survive in it. And not just that
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: I couldn't survive in it, but the real truth of
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: it is that I didn't want my daughter to grow
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: up with a mother who was bitter. Like there are
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: too many people who were walking around the planet who
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: are the consequence of somebody's bitterness. That's real, and I
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: didn't want my daughter to experience me that way. I mean,
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: there were so many people who knew me as the bubbly, exciting,
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: fun version, and at home, I wasn't that. And so
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: I know that people often say, well, you stay together
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: for the kids. But I left for her, and in
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: that leaving I still couldn't work up enough courage to
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: say I wanted a divorce. All I said was I
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: need time and space, and so he gave me that.
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: He lived literally down the street. You come over every day, Yeah,
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: come over every day. We still had dinner together. You know,
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: we didn't even have lawyers because it was like, you know,
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: we were just kind of like figuring out how to
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: co parent. And then I wanted to experience other relationships,
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: and that was difficult because I was like, oh, man,
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: I want to be sneaking around, you know, it feels
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: like I'm cheating. Although the street he was really a
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: pop for any moment, you know what I mean. So
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: then I did the tricky thing where I was just like,
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: you know, you should, you should you should meet somebody
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: you don't you think you should have a girlfriend. And
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: he was like, what are you even talking about? You know,
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: So that took like another year of me being like, no,
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: you should, really I think we should. We should try
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: to see other people and then maybe we'll know for
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: sure if we want to be together. And then girl,
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: he got a girlfriend, and I was like who's this bitch? Oh?
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: I was piss You were mad? Oh? Girls pissed? I
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: was mad. This is complicated. I don't think he was
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: clean up being honest. Okay, I was mad. And not
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: only that, she was so different from me. You know,
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: she was like this yoga type, the kind he like,
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: bades with dove and doesn't wear it perfume.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: I was like, the hell is this dade freakin like.
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: I brought pencil in her life? Basic? Like, how you
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: come from me to that? Oh? Come on, you gotta
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: level up.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: You think he was trying to make you mad?
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: Girl, I don't know what he was trying to do,
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: but he succeeded. Okay, if that's what his intention was,
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: he succeeded. But after, like after I got kind of
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: used to it, it's hilarious. I was like, you know,
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: she's like a sister wife. It's fine, you.
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: Know, and where we go with of life?
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: Good girl? I was really out here trying to Yeah,
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: but when he got sick for some time, it was
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: actually a benefit to have someone like her around because
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: and by the way, just to be very clear, wasn't
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: that we weren't intimate, There was no there was no
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: crossing of those lines at all. Right, he was fully
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: in her relationship with her. I was over here doing
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: what I'm doing. Yeah, but it was like having a
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: good friend who loved the person I love. And I
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: was so grateful for her, you know, to be able
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: to be with him at doctor's appointments. When I had
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: to go do something with leel Or I had to
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: take a business trip, like you know, we had a
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: group chat, you know, where we'd send each other photos
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: of like, Okay, this is what is happening with Peter today.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: Right, it was like team Peter.
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: It was team Peter all the way. But the day
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: that we discovered that his cancer was terminal, there was
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: no more fun and games. Yeah. That's when I was like,
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: you know what, actually I don't like this, Like I
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: don't want her around. Wow, you're my husband and I'm
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: the one who's going to take care of you. And
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: I recognized in the moment that it was unfair. I
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: know that still. I know it's unfair to her. I
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: know it's probably unfair to him, But Hanna, I'm not
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: gonna lie to you and pretend like I was going
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: to be the bigger person. Yeah. I was like, no,
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: these are the memories I'm going to be left with.
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: And I'm not going to be able to live if
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: I don't do this, If I don't take this fully
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: on the vow said in sickness and in health till
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: death do his part. That's what I'm going to do.
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: And so I told him that we needed to reevaluate
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: our agreement. Yeah, and he was like, fantastic, get her
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: out of here. Oh yeah, exactly, get her out. And
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: again I realized that even in the laughter that we're
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: having now, I'm sure there was heartbreak for her. Yeah.
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: You know, I'm probably heartbreak for him, if I'm being
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: totally honest.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but you guys had a different Yeah. You know
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: that friend who always has the best cocktails at her place.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: Now that friend is you thanks to twenty one Seeds
• 36:03
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• 36:10
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• 36:33
  Speaker 1: New York, New York. I'm wondering how you balance living
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: an urgent life with the time it takes to create
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: meaningful things, which you do often.
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, oh wait does that? But this is the
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: beauty of urgency is that I think, you know, it
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: gets confused that urgency means like rushing, but it's not.
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: Urgency is more intentional than that. It means that I
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: am purposeful of getting the thing I want without stopping.
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: So means that like, look, if I want to have
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: an experience, yeah, like let's say a vacation experience, I'm
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: not gonna let anybody stop me from trying to get
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: over there. And that meaningful experience is when I'm in
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: it and I have achieved it and I'm like, yes,
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: I'm sitting here in Thailand, you know. Or it's like
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: I want to get to the next position in my
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: career and I'm urgently chasing that thing and I'm not
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: saying it has to happen next month. It could take
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: five years. But when you get there, or on the
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: process to get there, you're feeling so fulfilled because you
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: know that you're only moving because you want.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: To go in a specific direction.
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: That's correct.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: So that's the feeling that you have to have. If
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: you don't have that feeling, you got to change directions.
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: Is that to change directions? Oh my god? Yeah? And
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: it's okay to have had the idea that you want
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: to go that way and then two weeks from now
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: you're like, actually, I don't like this reaction. I want
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: to go over here. That should be your prerogative, you know.
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: But we get so caught up in these like pro
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: com lists and these five year plans and the goals
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: that we set that you get confused and then all
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: of a sudden you don't want to follow the sharp
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: move because you're like, oh no, but my five year
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: plan said I need to do this thing. Why are
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: we stuck to that?
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: How much of your life has been faith and intuition
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: versus strategy?
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: Girl? I think one hundred percent of it has been
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: faith and intuition one hundred percent. If there's more than
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: one hundred percent, I would say that there's been no
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: strategy in this what zero I'm being totally honest, no strategy.
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: So anybody is going to listen to your resume and think.
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, huh, they should, they should, they should.
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: It's all feeling.
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: It's all feeling because and the thing is that, now
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: here's the real crux of it is that people will
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: look at my resume and be like, gosh, this was
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: so smart move from that to that to that today way.
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: But if I told you the stories of the slivers
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: of time in between those moves and told you that
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: people didn't cheer for me while I was making those moves,
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: people didn't think they were smart. And then now looking
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: in hindsight, they're like, she always knew what she was doing.
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: I knew it, But no, I moved on feeling. I
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: moved on intuition, And I believe that's why I'm successful,
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: not because I had some grand master plan that is
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: like all of a sudden manifested. I don't even believe that.
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: I'm like, I think that the destiny comes from what
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: you are intuitively understanding as each day unveils itself, not
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: that you can see ten years down the line and say, ah,
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: that's where I want to go and I'm going to
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: manifest to get to the ten years. What makes you
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: think you of that much power? You don't.
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: So when you're in those rooms, yeah, you have these
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: ideas because you're so tapped into culture. I've heard you
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: talk about that, and people in the room maybe don't
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: see the world the way you do, and you're trying
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: to explain to them. It's this feeling you have. How
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: do you get that idea across the finish line?
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: That's a different thing. I think the idea of persuasion
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: is very different from your own feelings intuition about how
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: to live true you know. So for me, those are
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: two very different things. If I'm in a boardroom and
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: I'm trying to sell an idea, believe me, the first
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: time you heard the idea is not when I'm standing
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: in front of you. The first time you heard the
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: idea was when I had the meeting with you two
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: weeks ago.
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: You're planting seeds.
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: Hell yeah, and I'm also getting information because maybe my
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: idea is stupid. I'm not afraid to say that I
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: don't always have the best idea. I have the best
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: crafted idea, meaning that like I crafted over time. Okay.
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: So it's like, okay, I'm going to pitch you a
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: little bit of it, let you sit with it, start thinking,
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: and I'm going to come back to you and be like,
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: so what did you think of it? And I want
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: you to tell me the truth. Don't try to placate me,
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: you know, it's like, pacify me, tell me what you thought.
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: And then there are some things that I'm like, ah, okay, okay,
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: if you have a struggle with this part of the idea,
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: then I've got to go fix that and come back
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: to let you understand, because by the time I get
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: in the room that big crazy idea, I want heads
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: nodding all around the table, and there might be one
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: person who's still over here not believing, but by the
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: time we walk out of the room, everybody else has
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: convinced that person that it was smart.
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: So, as you're telling me this, now, I understand what
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: you mean when you said in an article a few
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: months ago when you started Real Housewives that Housewives is
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: like the boardroom.
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: Hell yeah, oh absolutely, it's those planting of these sea
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: planting of seas. It's the small conversations that lead to
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: the big conversation yes, Yeah, you got to make sure
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: everybody is on my side, and then you get to
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: the big one and then you can have a conversation
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: because you don't have to argue.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: They are playing checkers and you are playing chess.
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: It's always been that way.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: I'm getting warm.
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: No, But the thing is that, like, I think you
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: have to know the difference though, you know, between like
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: what is meant for your life and what you are
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: trying to do in your life versus like how everybody
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: else has a role in that. Yeah, and so recognizing
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: that you are at the center and that's You're the
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: reason why this experience exists. Everybody else is just helping
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: you along to get to the destination you're trying to
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: get to.
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: So, speaking of helping you along, I listen to almost
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: all your interviews. Oh yeah, and I've never really heard
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: you talk about mentorship.
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: Oh this is a big one.
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: Tell me.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: The only person I've ever heard you kind of talk
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: about with like a lovingness was Jimmy Iveen.
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: Losy. This is a tough one because I don't like mentors.
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: I don't believe in mentorship. I don't believe in menteeship.
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: When people are like, oh, can you mentor me. I'm like, hell, no,
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: I won't do it, you know, not because like I
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: don't have time or that, like I don't want to
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: pass on the keys. Girl, Please, I'm open. I will
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: tell you everything you need to know to make you win. Yeah,
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: but the concept of mentorship has been so oh it's
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: just it's been made so gross that it's like these
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: forced coffee dates and these zoom meetings and this like
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: let me sit down with my notebook and write down
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: everything that you said. It's not real, you know. It's
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: like real mentorship or real passing along of information is
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: more like back in the day, like apprenticeship. You know,
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: it's like come shadow me, come watch me, watch you know.
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: It's like I liken it too, how I learned to cook.
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: You know, my mom in the kitchen is not gonna
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: tell you put one cup of flour, two tablespoons of
• 43:47
  Speaker 3: baking powder. Nah, you're gonna watch her and if she's
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: moving too fast, girl, you better pray and hope that
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: she's gonna make this again so that you could watch
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: her one more time.
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: And she's cooking on feeling.
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: She's cooking on feeling, and you can't you don't have
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: time to take notes, so you just have to watch
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: and commit it to memory. And I'm like, that's what
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: mentorship should be. You should be able to watch me,
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: watch the way I move, ask me questions if you want,
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: but mostly watch how I move, take notes from what
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: I'm doing, and then apply it in the way that
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: makes sense for your life. You know. But like these
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: forced coffee dates and things, I hate those things. Yeah,
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: have to the test and it should be more like
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: friendship too.
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: It has to be two way. Yeah, what do you want.
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: To be in a relationship? Where are you just taking
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: from me and I get nothing? Yeah, sounds ridiculous. I'm
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: not in that. I'm not into it at all.
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: So Jimmy Ivan and Crazy Man.
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: I have you know, the other day I was thinking
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: about this. I was like, man, you know, I feel
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: like I'm always just drawn to founders in my entire career.
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: Right outside of Pepsi as a as one example, everybody
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: else I've worked for has been a founder. Huh, isn't
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: that wild? So Spike was a founder, So then just
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: take out PepsiCo for a second. I went to beats
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: that Jimmy Ivan and Doctor Dre founders, Apple, even though
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: I didn't work directly for Steve Jobs, he'd already passed
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: away by the time I got there. Everybody else who
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: built a company was still there. Eddie Q was my
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: boss right there. Uber Travis Kalinnik brought me in endeavor Ari,
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: he's the king of Hollywood. Yeah, Netflix, Reed Hastings. I mean,
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: it's like, I've always worked for founders, and so I
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: really love now the hindsight that somebody else would look
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: at me and say, oh, you started a new company.
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: It's because you worked. You know, you were working for
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: all these founders. You must have had a plan, And
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: they're like, no, I think I'm just naturally drawn to
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: people who have that kind of hood spot. And it's
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: been just the trajectory of having the intuition and the feeling. Yeah,
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: And so I didn't know I was gonna end up here,
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: but somewhere inside of this DNA and inside of the
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: destiny that was already written for me, I was following
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: that intuition which led me to all these people who
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: have absolutely learned from who I'm taking everything from to
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: apply to what I'm doing now.
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: Is it crazy to ask you to give me, like
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: one thing you've taken from all these people.
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: Oh man, so good. Okay. So from Spike his complete
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: unapologeticness about being black. He could care less what you
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: think about that. I'm black and he black black, black black.
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: I love it, Oh my god. Okay. From Jimmy Ivy,
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: Jimmy had a golden ear. He understood. He would hear
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: music and know that it was a hit or not
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: a hit. Yah, and listen to that. And I don't
• 46:46
  Speaker 3: have a golden ear, but I have a golden eye
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: for ideas and pulse. I think, yes, I can feel.
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: I can feel things. You're absolutely right, Like Paul song culture,
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: I could be like, oh that's hot, go there before
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: anybody else sees it. So listening to that from Travis
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: Kalanik the idea that nobody else believes in because it
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: is not making the wheel, it's simply recoloring it. So
• 47:13
  Speaker 3: he took the ideas of taxis yeah, and just put
• 47:15
  Speaker 3: it in tech and then built a billion dollar business
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: on that. You would think that like, oh, well, you
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: can only be brilliant if you're coming up with something
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: brand new. No, he didn't. He was like, great, do
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: you see that taxi right there? I'm gonna just change
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: it and make it something different. Him Ari, Ari Manuel,
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, Ari is equal parts. No, actually, I
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: take that back. He's all emotion really, oh my god.
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: Ari will cry at the drop of a dime. Wow.
• 47:47
  Speaker 3: And he also gets pissed, you know. So people are
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: afraid of him because like his anger is so big.
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: But he's also the one who's going to cry. You
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: know those once a hit article written on me after
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: I and he called me and he was just like,
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: you want me to kill that person wrote that article
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: about you. I was like, Ari, please don't hang up.
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: If we can't even I can't even say I think
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: he plausible deniability. Okay, don't say these words to me.
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: You know they ride or die.
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's fiery, like fiery an emotion.
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: He's completely unafraid. I mean, we would have the like
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: our morning meetings and it's the whole agency from all
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: the countries, and Ari would be sniffling in the corner,
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: either in pride or in frustration. M h. He would.
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: He didn't care if you saw him cry. Beautiful Read Hastings,
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, Read has that quiet leadership where he
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: will speak quietly but firmly from the back of the room,
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: Like he walks in and you probably don't know that
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: he's the one who founded the company. Yeah, but when
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: he speaks, you're gonna listen because he's so sure and
• 49:00
  Speaker 3: he's completely also unapologetic about his standards. You know, there's
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: like this they say it's a myth, but it's not
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: a myth, which is that he's always looking for the
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: next better person.
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: And so it's like you can never be comfortable in
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: your job. It's like, Okay, maybe you were good yesterday,
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: but now I saw somebody better, so you're out here.
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: What was the best run company?
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: Oh that's a really hard one. I mean that's hard
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: to say. I mean Apple is a beautifully run company. Yeah,
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: so you know, but I think some of it was
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: also just legacy of Steve jobs, you know, and since
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: I didn't work with him directly, I don't know. But
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: it's a beautifully run company still with the right ethics
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: and values at heart, even though it's enormous. I don't
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: know how they able to continue keeping that pace even
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: with how large it is.
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: How many skews have you made for Eve?
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: Oh my god, how many?
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: Blow my mind?
• 50:04
  Speaker 3: Girl? I think there's one hundred and sixty seven.
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: Oo's how.
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: I know?
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: I made our deck. Do you know how long it
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: took me to make that?
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: Look?
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: I'm coming out with two expansion passes here.
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: I'm so happy for one hundred and Yeah, I'm dying
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: to hear the process of how this all went down.
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: First of all, are we wearing eve right now?
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: Of course, of course it's really beautiful. We don't step
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: outside without really beautiful hairs, thank you. But yeah, you know,
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: it was accidental. It was accidental. Here's what happen. I know,
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: here's what happened. Okay. It started off with just being like, okay,
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: I just need hair that resembles textures. I like, okay,
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: you know what I mean. I was like, let me
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: get like a straight texture, let me do a semi
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: straight texture, do a loose curl, a tighter curl, and
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: then like a really tight tight curl. Yeah you know.
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: And then I was like, huh, but why is it
• 51:06
  Speaker 3: that these companies don't make lace, and lace is what
• 51:09
  Speaker 3: the hair is put on, Like, why don't they make
• 51:12
  Speaker 3: lace that matches like the range of skin colors? Yeah,
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: you know, It's like if you got eighty percent of
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: the consumer base that are black women or women of color.
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: Why is it that all of it is white? Makes
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: no sense? Yeah? So I was like, cool, right, let
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: me get three lace colors. Yeah, I do three times
• 51:28
  Speaker 3: five and you have fifteen. So it started right there.
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: And then I was like, you know what, and what
• 51:34
  Speaker 3: about links? Yeah? Yea. Also I'm like, okay, got twenty two,
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: got twenty six, you got thirty, got thirty four, forty
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: there's five lengths, so five times fifteen seventy five.
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: Now I see you on your Instagram and you said
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: before you started Eve and built the factory in Ghana, Yeah,
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: you went to Asia where most of the hair was made. Yes,
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: I love seeing that. It was cool that you filmed.
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah yeah yeah.
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: And you were like, it's not really giving what I
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: need it to. No, why not build the factory there?
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: Why do you build it in Ghana?
• 52:10
  Speaker 3: Oh that's a really difficult question too. It certainly would
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: have been easier to build it in China, but I
• 52:17
  Speaker 3: also wanted to build it where I knew people could
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: understand what I was doing, you know, where there wouldn't
• 52:25
  Speaker 3: be corners cut based on manufacturing practices. You know, sometimes
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: you just need to like take it out of its
• 52:31
  Speaker 3: environment and put it somewhere else so you can see
• 52:33
  Speaker 3: it differently, you know. So it's like, if I had
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: just kept it there, then perhaps in China there would
• 52:40
  Speaker 3: have been, you know, ways of making the product that
• 52:44
  Speaker 3: I would have just gone with because that's just the
• 52:46
  Speaker 3: way people do it. But when I took it out
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: of the environment and put it over here, and I'm
• 52:49
  Speaker 3: asking questions, you know, I'm like, well, why does it
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: need to be rinsed in this chemical? Like why can't
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: it be more natural products that were rinsing the final
• 52:59
  Speaker 3: product in? Like why is it that we can't incorporate
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: oils that are from the continent in the hair care product?
• 53:07
  Speaker 3: You know? Why is it that the packaging needs to
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: look like this instead of that?
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: But you're self funded, Yes, I can only imagine what
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: a startup cost to build a factory and all these
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: skews cost reges, Like it would have been really easy,
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: first of all, easy for you to get capital if
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: you wanted to raise Yeah.
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I shouldn't say easy, but.
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: You know enough people, yes, or it would have been
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: easier to build this factory in China. I think it's
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: really cool that you did it where you're from.
• 53:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And also because I just didn't want anyone tell
• 53:43
  Speaker 3: me what to do. Yeah, at the very pace of it,
• 53:49
  Speaker 3: it came down to that, I just don't want anybody
• 53:52
  Speaker 3: tell me what to do. I'm tired of it. Yeah,
• 53:55
  Speaker 3: I'm done with that. And taking other people's money often
• 53:59
  Speaker 3: means and then you got to go answer to them.
• 54:01
  Speaker 3: You know. It was funny, Actually, you just made me
• 54:04
  Speaker 3: think of this. So in the period between when I
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: published my book and when I decided to found my company,
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: you know, I was playing around trying to think of
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: what I wanted to do, and I called a very
• 54:15
  Speaker 3: trusted friend who you know, she's not in the bestie circle,
• 54:19
  Speaker 3: but she's close enough. You know, girl, don't tell I
• 54:24
  Speaker 3: might get threatened, you know. But I called her and
• 54:27
  Speaker 3: she said some stuff to me that made me so upset.
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: I was so pissed, yo, because she was just like, bo,
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: it's like, you can't live the way that you live
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: and expect investors to be okay. You know. It's like
• 54:41
  Speaker 3: you can't run off to Paris and pop bottles of
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: champagne and investors are going to look at you and
• 54:48
  Speaker 3: take you seriously. And I was like, what the fuck
• 54:52
  Speaker 3: do you mean, like you can't look at my resume
• 54:55
  Speaker 3: and look at my accolades and look at everything I've
• 54:57
  Speaker 3: done and say that like I'm not serious, that I'm
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: somehow frivolous because I popped a bottle of woof? Like
• 55:05
  Speaker 3: where do you do that? But she was serious, and
• 55:07
  Speaker 3: I knew she was, but it still made me mad.
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: But she said it from a place of love.
• 55:11
  Speaker 3: She said it from a place of love and knowledge.
• 55:13
  Speaker 3: And I had to sit with that and she was
• 55:16
  Speaker 3: just like, you know, because they're going to always wonder
• 55:18
  Speaker 3: if it's their money you're spending. And that changed everything.
• 55:24
  Speaker 3: I was like, I don't want anybody asking me why
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: I'm popping bottles of woof. Hell, if I want to
• 55:29
  Speaker 3: pop a bottle and pour it down the drain, I
• 55:31
  Speaker 3: should be able to do that. I don't want anybody
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: ask me any questions. And then I turned around and
• 55:35
  Speaker 3: I said, well, you know, the security I have in
• 55:39
  Speaker 3: the money I've made is sitting in a bank, or
• 55:43
  Speaker 3: sitting in investments, or sitting in stock and it makes
• 55:46
  Speaker 3: me feel good because I could look at my assets
• 55:48
  Speaker 3: and say, oh, you know, I'm worse an estimated fill
• 55:52
  Speaker 3: in the blank. But what good is that doing me?
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: Like?
• 55:57
  Speaker 3: What good is that? So all of this time, all
• 55:59
  Speaker 3: this effort I've put into these other companies, I'm going
• 56:02
  Speaker 3: to take that back and put it into myself. And
• 56:07
  Speaker 3: it wasn't an easy decision. It wasn't like I'm saying
• 56:09
  Speaker 3: it casually now. But it wasn't like I didn't toss
• 56:12
  Speaker 3: and turn and stay up at night and be like,
• 56:14
  Speaker 3: Oh God, is this really yeah? You know right?
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: You have a daughter, yes, you have responsibilities.
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: Yes, And I have years left of life that I
• 56:25
  Speaker 3: want to live well. And so it's like if I
• 56:27
  Speaker 3: poured everything I had into this and it didn't work,
• 56:30
  Speaker 3: then what But I almost felt like I had no choice.
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what pushed you over to do it?
• 56:37
  Speaker 3: I really felt like I had no choice because I
• 56:39
  Speaker 3: was like, you know what, I feel this call to
• 56:43
  Speaker 3: make this company so deeply, so strongly, Like it almost
• 56:48
  Speaker 3: feels like it's in my cellular makeup. You know, everything
• 56:53
  Speaker 3: in my life has led me to this point, Like
• 56:55
  Speaker 3: I know that without a shadow of a doubt, there's
• 56:58
  Speaker 3: a zero doubt. Like the way that God speaks to
• 57:02
  Speaker 3: me is so specific, and when I heard it, I
• 57:07
  Speaker 3: knew it. There's only been a few times in my
• 57:09
  Speaker 3: life where I've heard the voice of God and I'm
• 57:11
  Speaker 3: telling you I know it. And so when I heard it,
• 57:13
  Speaker 3: I was like, oh.
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you remember where you were? How did it comey?
• 57:17
  Speaker 3: Gosh, well this time?
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: You mean yeah.
• 57:20
  Speaker 3: It was actually in the shower, and I was thinking
• 57:23
  Speaker 3: about exactly this, like what do I do? You know,
• 57:25
  Speaker 3: there were so many things that I want to experience.
• 57:28
  Speaker 3: I was weighing and offered that was going to be
• 57:31
  Speaker 3: coming from a very large company. They were considering either
• 57:35
  Speaker 3: CMO or CEO titles, you know. And so I was
• 57:39
  Speaker 3: standing there contemplating this, and you know, sometimes I play
• 57:42
  Speaker 3: with the idea of like, ooh, what's the press going
• 57:43
  Speaker 3: to say? Ooh what is it? You know? And I
• 57:45
  Speaker 3: was my ego was getting in there, you know, where
• 57:46
  Speaker 3: I was just like I couldn not because I was like,
• 57:49
  Speaker 3: oh man, I can't wait till these fools who've been
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: talking about my time is over they see this, you know.
• 57:54
  Speaker 3: And I was in the shower and the voice of
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: God is like it is a strong, clear bell, at
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: least to me.
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: I've only heard it once.
• 58:11
  Speaker 3: Oh man, it's so beautiful. It's so clear. It just
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: cuts through all the other noise, you know, everything goes silent.
• 58:20
  Speaker 3: And what I heard was you'll call the company Eve. Wow,
• 58:28
  Speaker 3: That's that's what I heard. And when I tell you,
• 58:31
  Speaker 3: I want to cry now, like the tears. It was
• 58:35
  Speaker 3: like a bell just struck in the middle of my spirit.
• 58:39
  Speaker 3: And I was like, what company is that? I don't know,
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: what do you mean? Give me more questions. I'm not
• 58:51
  Speaker 3: sure what that means. Is there more to it? What
• 58:58
  Speaker 3: we need? Where's the snap plan?
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: That is amazing?
• 59:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but I cried and cried and cried because I
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: knew it. I knew. I was like, whatever, whatever it's
• 59:13
  Speaker 3: supposed to be, it's gonna come to me. And girl,
• 59:15
  Speaker 3: I have that same face sitting right here right now
• 59:19
  Speaker 3: that like, whatever is supposed to be is just coming.
• 59:23
  Speaker 3: I just have to be obedient in it, right. And
• 59:26
  Speaker 3: so the fact that like shortly after that, I was
• 59:30
  Speaker 3: on a birthday trip with my sister, a really good
• 59:34
  Speaker 3: friend and my cousin, and we're coming back from that trip.
• 59:38
  Speaker 3: We gone to Hawaii and I told a few people,
• 59:42
  Speaker 3: like you know, that I had this idea or that
• 59:44
  Speaker 3: I wanted to do hair, you know, and i'd even
• 59:48
  Speaker 3: told anybody the name was Eve. I just said, you know,
• 59:50
  Speaker 3: I think I'm going to go into this business. People
• 59:52
  Speaker 3: thought it was crazy and they're just like what, I
• 59:54
  Speaker 3: don't stand Why are you gonna go sell hair for
• 59:56
  Speaker 3: you know? And we're sitting at the airports, just me
• 59:58
  Speaker 3: and my cousin, and she was asking me more about it,
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 3: and I was explained to her and she was just
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 3: nodding and like like she understood what I was saying,
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 3: even though I knew it didn't make any sense. Yeah,
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 3: and then she said, all right, I'm going to join you. Huh.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 3: And by the way, this is a woman who's highly accomplished,
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 3: like operations mastermind. She worked for Coach at the time.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 3: And she said I'm gonna I'm gonna do it. And
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 3: I was like, gird, what I didn't even tell you
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 3: what the job. There's no job. And she's like, that's okay,
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 3: we're just gonna build it. But I knew that that
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 3: was also God, that like all of these things were
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 3: going to be put in place to make it simply
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 3: because I'm being obedient. And I know that's what's happened.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: When you say obedient, do you mean like excellent, so
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: that it comes to you when you're ready? What does
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: that mean that means.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 3: That I am listening to my intuition to the feeling.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 3: That means I'm not sway by the outside voices and
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 3: the people who are like, ooh, you should do this,
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 3: and you should do that, and you know, the best
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 3: way to make money is this and the da da da,
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 3: you know, and cut six cents off if you do
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 3: it this way. It means that a lot of times
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 3: I am quiet and I am deciding, and then I
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 3: am going for it. Yeah, and so therefore, and that's
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 3: a very difficult thing to do, because of course people
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 3: love you. They want to give you advice, they want
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: to tell you how best to do it. I can't
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 3: tell you how many people are just like, oh, talk
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 3: to my friend who did X y Z thing and
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 3: she knows it. And then I meet that person, I'm
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 3: just like somethime's off, no, thank you, goodbye.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 3: You know, it's a very difficult thing to do, to
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: be obedient to your intuition. It is.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of things that pull you in other directions.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: When I hear you talk about your life and I
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: read about the excellence and the ambition, I love the ambition.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: It like fires me up.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't help but think about the cost of
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: it all too to me? Is a second book for you?
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: Oh yes, there's so much there. I can't imagine. That's
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: like kind of left on the table. Yeah, what do
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: you think the cost has been?
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 3: It's funny actually, the woman that runs the PR company
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 3: that I work with, Anita, wants me to write an
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 3: article called the Cost of Being Different. Yeah, and it
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 3: is essentially basically what you're asking, you know, which is
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 3: that it's like the cost of ambition, the cost of
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 3: being different, the cost of you know, having and living
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 3: and being what other people don't want you to be.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 3: It does cost a lot. It costs I mean, I
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 3: think the basic things are like, it costs you friends,
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 3: it costs you money. You know. Those are because you'll
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 3: turn down something that people will be like, oh my god,
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 3: why would you do that, so you could do this
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 3: other thing that's small, you know. But also it costs
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 3: you friendships because you can be light in the friendships
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 3: that you have. I have like besties and I have acquaintances.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 3: There's no one really in the middle, yo, because like
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 3: you can't have people around you who aren't contributing to
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 3: your life in some sort of meaningful way, and so
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 3: the ambition is requires like that kind of precision, you know,
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 3: it requires people who will understand that you're going to
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 3: be focused on what you want to do and nothing else.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 3: Not meaning that I'm not giving to other people or
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 3: that I'm not considered of other people. Of course i am,
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 3: but it's like I'm living the life I want to
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 3: live and I'm going to do everything that is required
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 3: of me to do it, and I'm singularly focused on that,
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 3: and so that sometimes means that I can't do the
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 3: thing you want me to do, and you have to
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 3: be able to understand that and be okay with that.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: What do you think you did that? Ninety nine percent
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: of people didn't do?
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 3: What did you do?
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: Differently?
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 3: There's so many answers to that. There have just been
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 3: so many choices I've made, you know that I feel
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 3: like other people would have. It's what do I even
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 3: start with that?
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: The guts?
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, Like I said, I have been very focused
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 3: on making sure that I'm living my life for me.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 3: So even in that, even in my motherhood, I've made
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 3: choices that I just don't think a lot of other
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 3: people make, which is my daughter's very clear that my
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 3: life is mine. Yeah, she's not confused about that at all. Now.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 3: It's not that I don't consider her in my life,
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 3: of course I do. I'm her mother. But just back
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 3: to what I said before about like not living in bitterness,
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 3: Like if I curtail the things I want to do
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 3: or I do things I'm just like, oh, I can't
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 3: be then I'm gonna be resentful of her. And I
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 3: don't want that for me or for her. And so
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 3: I've made choices that sometimes are in my favor, and
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 3: she's aware of that, but I want her to also
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 3: live her life that way, like hope. That's what I'm
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 3: teaching her, right, which is the example you you should
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 3: be in the center of your life.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: You said my only responsibility in shattering the glass ceiling
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: is being able to survive it. I feel your joy,
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: I feel your excitement for the next chapter. But I'm
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: also not in your house day to day. I don't
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: see the quiet moments. Do you feel like all the
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: bumps and bruises and scars were worth it?
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 3: Ooh hmmm, it's probably better answered, I say, would I
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 3: do it again? Okay?
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: Would you do it again?
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 3: No?
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: You wouldn't. Conan O'Brien.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: I was on an airplane with him and I asked
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: him that one question and he said, no, it would
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: be too hard.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it would be too hard. I wouldn't do it again.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 3: M hmm, it's too hard too. It's just too hard.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 3: It's too hard.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you really do have a second book in you.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: Oh my god.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I wouldn't. I wouldn't because it's just like, you know,
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 3: what would you do. I don't know. I'd moved to
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 3: the village, like, yeah, farm a small patch of land
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 3: and just try to eat.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: I'm kind of hoping your daughter gets like a different
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: shot at it.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 3: No, I don't have any aspirations for her, honestly, except
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 3: that she lives a happy life. It's cool. I just
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 3: hope that she does exactly what she wants to do.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 3: Like that's it, that's really cool. I've never heard anyone
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 3: say that. Yeah, no, no, I don't. I don't. And
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 3: the thing is that if she said she wants to
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 3: follow my footsteps, I wouldn't persuade her. I wouldn't say like, no,
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 3: don't do it, it's too terrible. It's like, no, it's
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 3: her life, Let her do it. You know what I mean,
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 3: maybe she'ld get to forty and then been like I
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 3: should have done it differently.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: Should have gone to the village.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 3: Should have gone to the village like my mom said,
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 3: I should you know what I mean? Yeah, but yeah, no,
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 3: I I gonna do it again.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: Let's go with some rapid fire.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: What's something you've done for love or for friendship that
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: felt absolutely wild at the time.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 3: Woo whatever, don't Oh, I don't know. That's so hard.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: Come on, you're a grand gesture kind of gal.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 3: I know. Oh you mean like presence and things.
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: That's what it is. We ever like flowing across the
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: world to see somebody from.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 3: Yes, of course I have. Of course, girl, I didn't
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 3: think that was a grand gesture. That's just me falling
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 3: my heart.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: See that's a lucky man.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, very Okay.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: What's the last thing you did that made you feel
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: really alive?
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 3: Ooh oh I sat at the edge of the Victoria
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 3: Falls like free form and looked at the falls going down.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: I saw you do that on your Instagram.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 3: That's crazy, that's absolutely insane. Funny thing is I look
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 3: at it now. I'm just like you are an idiot? Like,
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 3: my knees hurt when I look at it now. But
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 3: in the moment, I was like, yes, life, you so
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 3: much to.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: Okay, a little piece of wisdom about money or love
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: that you picked up along the way that you wish everybody.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 3: Now, Oh, spend it all, really, spend it all. Spend
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 3: everything that you have. Yep, all of it. That is
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 3: not what I thought you were gonna. Spend it. Spend it,
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 3: don't leave it, don't hold it, no, let it go,
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 3: don't invest it either, just go.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: What is one thing every woman should try once?
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 3: Moving without other people's expectations.
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna take that from today's just just once.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 3: Do it on something like you know, when you're going
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 3: to a party and you're gonna call your friend and
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 3: be like what you're wearing? Don't do it. Don't do that,
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 3: Just wear whatever you want to wear.
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: I actually have a rule with my friends. They're not
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: allowed to call me and ask what I'm wearing. I
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: find it so annoying.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 3: Oh do you I hate that so much?
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: Who cares what I'm wearing?
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 3: Who cares where? Whatever? You win? Yeah, it's so funny.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 3: So my new cast mate Jennifer Tilly, right, she said,
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 3: that in a way that just brought me so much joy.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 3: She was like, you don't want to call me because
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna be the most overdressed person. And She's like,
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 3: and I wear nice clothes because I have them.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was like.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: It really is.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: For this week's episode, Erica in her confessional, it was
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: like that bitch has good ship.
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 3: No, she really does. Jennifer Tilly is just top of
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 3: the top. Oh my god, who knew? I didn't know that.
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: I didn't know who she was until Real House.
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean like I was sorry. She just had
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 3: a funny voice, that's all I knew. Yeah, but Homegirl
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 3: is a fashion nis da Okay, we kind of match
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 3: your book.
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: Actually maybe this was meant to be. But this book
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: changed a lot of people's lives. And I'm curious about
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: a book that you've read that really shaped you.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 3: Hands down, without a doubt. Song of Solomon by Tony
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 3: Morrison my favorite book. It's a beautiful book. Beautiful book.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: Okay, last question, pick a card, any card from that
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: card game.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, this is so good, by the way, the gold beautiful.
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: In the middle of the that type of g Yeah,
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: I like that.
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 3: There we go. What is the most challenging part of
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 3: what you do for a living.
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: It's interesting that you got that one.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 3: The most challenging part is doing exactly what I want
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 3: to do without influence from other people.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: Wow, that's crazy amount of courage it is.
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 3: Who Okay, well, there we have it. It's like tarot.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: People pick cards that It's really weird. It happens every time.
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 3: That's so funny because look at this question, what do
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 3: you want to be known for? And that that's a
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 3: good question, but that question was better.
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's crazy.
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: Wow, well, thank you so much, thank you so much.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 3: Wonderful, You're really wonderful, wonderful, thank you, thank you.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: Okay, you know what time it is. Today's a good day.
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: To have a good day. I'll see you next week.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: Ta ta and