Latest / Off The Shelf With Phil and Dave- A Movie Review Podcast / 1975's One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest

Transcript

1975's One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest · Off The Shelf With Phil and Dave- A Movie Review Podcast

• 0:01
  Hello and welcome to Off the Shelf with Phil and Dave, the
• 0:06
  movie talk show where each week one of us takes a movie off our
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  shelf, presents it to the other, and discusses it at length.
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  This week we've got coming off of my Shelf, 1975's One Flew
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  Over the Cuckoo's Nest, directed by Milos Forman and written by
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  Bo Goldman and Ken Casey. This is a bow.
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  Film. I didn't know that.
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  It's a Goldman. This movie received a few gold.
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  Men themselves we'll talk about. That in a little.
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  Bit but here we are, David. It's another week back on the
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  couch. Back on the couch, comfortable
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  as ever. Like a therapy even.
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  Yeah, appropriate. I would suggest for this movie,
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  if not any other. I wonder if you would be so kind
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  as to let me know a how you're doing of course and be your
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  initial thoughts on the film this week and what do you know
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  of this movie prior to and where your feelings coming out of?
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  You can probably guess that I've never seen the movie, and I was
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  of course concerned being late to the game once again.
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  Here we go. Classic from the 70s Where's?
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  Dave going to end up. It's a great movie that I've
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  heard is a good movie, but other than Jack Nicholson being in the
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  movie, I had no real sense of what a cuckoo was.
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  Maybe a bird of or it's because there's a nest.
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  I mean, he had inklings that there was an asylum possibly
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  involved. Really.
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  Yeah, but that's it. OK, that's it.
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  Pretty blind. So I was afraid of the rocky
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  factor, yeah. Sure, the French.
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  Connection. That's a good point.
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  The French Connection too, came out the same year as this, I
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  believe. Yeah, double check that.
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  That's some research here. But yeah, I'm thinking that it
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  had fermented for a while and may have lost some of that
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  initial zest on what made it part of the zeitgeist, made it a
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  a classic masterpiece. Terms I expect to hear a little
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  bit later throughout the movie from you, of course.
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  But I will say this just again, this is just an initial.
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  Yep. Just keep it a short and sweet.
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  I enjoyed this experience. I don't want to say
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  significantly, but I'm gonna. I'm gonna say it more than
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  Rocky. OK, Yeah.
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  Wow. Yeah.
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  Having said that, though, I wasn't really super excited of
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  watching it a second time, like to note it and such, but as I
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  watched it, like, no, this is pretty good, yeah.
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  Yeah, pretty good, yeah. Pretty good.
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  That's that's that's what I'm saying.
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  Solid 7. This is a solid 7 and I'm
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  sticking with that, but maybe you can swing me to an 8.
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  That's that's you know, maybe I can bring you down from A10 to
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  A9. That's the the goal every week.
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  Yeah, Bring it down. Yeah.
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  Yeah, Philip, of course. I, I am obligated to
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  contractually to transfer this over to you to hear just a
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  little bit, just a little bit of your history with the movie.
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  Obviously, you didn't see it when it first came out.
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  No. I'm very curious to know if you
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  saw it in theaters at some point, because you do.
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  That I do I I I have not, unfortunately.
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  Oh, that's too bad in. The theater, yeah, but I don't
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  remember when I first saw it. It would have been probably mid
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  2000s. Did you?
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  Rent it from the video. Store did it from the video
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  store OK. That was a black box.
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  Situation No, no, I think probably was familiar with
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  similar to what you said, just sort of the imagery Nicholson as
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  a as an actor, that image from the sort of box art him with the
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  the water treatment spraying that images in movie books and
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  magazines and such. So some imagery I think lasted
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  and was familiar with its pedigree as we'll get into a
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  little later. But in terms of the movie
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  itself, probably a mid 2000s video rental and just loved it
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  was immediately struck by performance in particular.
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  There's a lot of stuff going on in the movie that we're going to
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  get into, but on its basis level, the performances of
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  everybody in this movie blew me away.
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  Yeah, I would say the first time notable that that really
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  strengthens this movie. And I think without those
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  performances, I don't think it is talked about, revered, if you
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  will, as it is today. Without that, the writing's
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  good. Yeah, like.
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  There's other good elements. It's not all, it's not saved by
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  performances, but man, it definitely Nicholson's electric.
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  Yeah. Like, that's from the minute.
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  Yeah. Come on.
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  One, the fact that we've this is our only second Nicholson.
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  Shocking, really. It's on us.
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  When you gave me that stat, I was, I know, flummoxed.
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  I didn't feel good about it. No.
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  Yeah. I feel like we need to do more
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  and do better. I only have, I only have 7 Bruce
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  Willis movies, or probably more, actually, and only two
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  Nicholson. I have one Nicholson on my
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  shelf. OK.
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  Other than A Few Good Men, which we've done.
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  That is the other one. Yeah.
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  So in the archive. I'll throw it out there
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  eventually, but you know I can't do all the heavy lifting here.
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  That well, we get to eventually we've only done 1 Kubrick movie
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  that's fine and he's in he happens to be cast down the next
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  one. So The Shining in 19. 80 I saw
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  the sequel, Doctor Sleep, Doctor sleep.
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  Because I'll see anything with Ewan McGregor, and I mean
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  anything. OK.
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  Yeah. Good to know.
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  Yeah. I think it's noteworthy that
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  this movie came out the very exact year of of another movie
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  that you revered. That's my word of the day.
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  Jaws. Yes Sir, 1975.
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  More specifically, JAWS one, JAWS 1.
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  I don't want any confusion. Here not after. 1975 I thought
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  it was interesting for a couple of reasons please I was
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  surprised to see again this is just an IMDb ranking of this
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  movies from the 70s I was just I was curious yes you know your.
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  Curiosity. I think that attracts people to
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  you, Absolutely. And this movie Cuckoo, I will
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  refer to it as ranked at #7 for the entire decade.
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  Yes, exactly #1 being. Gave it a solid 7 too so.
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  There you go. It's the lucky, lucky number.
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  Number one is Taxi driver. OK, I don't know if that's
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  something that you think is warranted.
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  People love Taxi Driver more than I do.
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  OK, it's a great movie. OK, But I but I don't think it's
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  OK. Well, I'll go.
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  I don't think it's better than this.
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  I don't think it's better than Jaws.
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  For sure. There you go.
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  That's probably not a hot take. That's been stewing for years.
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  I think Jaws came in at 15. Shocking.
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  So I I. Got to ask you.
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  I have to ask you right now. I I know I don't want to catch
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  you off guard here, but which movie do you like better?
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  It's a tricky question. It is because the reality is,
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  and the way you phrased it, I do appreciate it's Jaws.
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  It's 100 times Jaws. OK, all right, it's cuz a
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  horror. Aspect just because of
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  watchability I love this movie Cuckoo's Nest, but Jaws is is
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  the comfort food, right? It is the thing that you wrap
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  yourself in at the end of the night.
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  And so I it's just fantastic. I love everything about Jaws.
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  The horror aspect obviously comes in the special effects,
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  some of the stuff that I kind of a naturally kind of ingrained to
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  and Shider. And then we throw in great
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  performances. Shider's my.
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  Buddy. So yeah, there's enough in Jaws
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  that that elevate beyond it's, you know, to me, one of the
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  greatest movies ever made, let alone the 70s.
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  But that doesn't discount Taxi Driver, which is a phenomenal
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  movie with Albert Brooks and De Niro.
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  And sounds like you're giving it a discount.
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  It's just not as watchable to me as Jaws now.
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  Better movie craftsmanship or whatever else we're not.
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  Qualified to really answer these questions.
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  No. And I mean, you're talking about
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  3 of the greatest directors of the 70s, right?
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  Spielberg and Scorsese and Milos Foreman here.
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  So yeah. I think it's win for Milos.
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  OK. I think it's a win for Milos.
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  There it is. Well, he did win the Oscar this
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  year against the movie Jaws, but coincidentally, and I think we
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  talked about this in the Jaws episode to be over.
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  Not nominated for director, not nominated, not nominated.
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  I believe it. I believe it for the level of
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  talent involved in breaking Jaws to the screen.
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  No Oscar nomination. Frankly, he's overrated.
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  If I may ask, you know, because you're the Oscar X, because you
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  are the Oscar expert. That's tough to say.
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  Oscar expert. OK, there we go.
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  Say that three times fast. Good luck.
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  Yeah. Did Nicholson win?
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  Yes. I thought you would say yes.
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  Did Fletcher win? Yes.
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  You beat me to the gun. I've said it a couple times over
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  the last few weeks. If you haven't noticed, we've
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  been lacking that supporting acting person role and I said,
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  Phil, I'll bring one. Yes, and you lied.
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  I didn't. No, no, no, no.
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  I just haven't got to it yet. It's next week.
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  It's next week. I promise you.
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  You really put me on the on the hot seat here.
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  You had two chances, by the way. To deliver, I went with what I
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  went with, for better, for worse.
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  Sure. I mean, I guess Goldblum in the
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  first one could be supporting. Yeah, that's a.
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  Good. That's a good ensemble.
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  Sure, that's an ensemble, Phil. There's a big difference.
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  I'm also glad we stepped away from the franchise for a bit and
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  you bring us a a solo hit. Yes, yes, it's one and done I
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  think. We were, we were due.
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  I agree, if not overdue for a grow low.
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  Hit. I agree.
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  I felt the same. I felt a need.
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  Even if it had to be your movie. That's somebody had to step up,
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  someone had to do it. I agree.
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  I I was very pleased by the depth, let's say, of the bench
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  on this. Particular 1 yes.
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  But getting back to the Oscars, you asked if it won those two
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  awards. We already discussed Milos.
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  That's a third. This movie, one of three movies
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  that have won the what they call the Big 5, the Big 5.
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  OK, we know the three. So actor, actress.
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  Yeah. Director, director, movie and
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  screenplay. There you go.
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  That's the Big 5. That's the movie.
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  We won all five of those Oscars this year, and it won it against
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  movies like Dog Day, Afternoon, Nicholson beat Pacino.
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  That's a tough one. That is because Pacino in Dog
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  Day is phenomenal. Come on, it's there.
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  It's Brad Dourif was Billy. He he was nominated, didn't win,
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  No. Nor should he OK France's
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  candidate. Louise Fletcher we talked about.
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  She beat Anne Margaret from Tommy.
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  That was a tough one. Yeah, Tommy's a terrible movie.
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  Look how she was good. It won director obviously over
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  look at this. OK, let's just take a second.
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  You might not even recognize. I'll give you 5 seconds to be
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  honest with you. But it beat Fellini in Amacord
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  Kubrick. OK, there's in Barry.
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  Lyndon Lumet for Dog Day afternoon and Altman for
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  Nashville. Beat Altman, eh?
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  Five of these directors all like world class, the directors here
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  in 1975 well delivering some of their great, great works.
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  They can't all win, that's just I mean, but it's good to have
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  some competition. We joke about 2006 Oscars when I
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  famously stormed out of a famous apartment.
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  It's well documented. When Crash won, I was thinking
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  to myself. Yeah, How you?
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  Feeling I would have been OK because any other move, any
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  other movie. Anything but crash.
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  Basically, I liked Capote, I liked Munich.
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  It was just anything but Crash. I would have been happy with
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  anyone else and then Crash wins and this is kind of how it was.
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  We're just like, I love Jaws. It wasn't.
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  It was nominated and I would have been happy, just as I would
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  have been happy with Dog Day. So I can't look at this as like
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  oh shit my favorite movies didn't win because I was like
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  this one deserves just as much attention as the other ones.
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  I'm surprised that it didn't win for costume design.
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  Watching Danny DeVito in the last 20 minutes.
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  Thirty minutes wearing that long T-shirt.
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  With A1 sock. That almost made him look like
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  he wasn't wearing any pants. Sure.
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  I don't know, I think it's something.
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  It may have had a better chance if it wasn't up against Barry
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  Lyndon where you have a real opulent opportunity to get and
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  get get costumes. It's like an old E English time
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  frame Revolutionary War, things like it's very, very.
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  Supposed. But you just see Harding's robe.
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  Come on. Little white look great.
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  But he, not him. He had the robe.
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  That's true. That's true.
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  He stood out. Mr. Harding.
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  The only one that wasn't a doctor.
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  Wasn't even nominated for the record.
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  OK, well so missed opportunity right there.
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  Bullshit. Oscars are full of crap anyway.
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  Well, Philip, for those, if you don't mind, I mean, we've talked
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  about the Oscars, so obviously it's a good movie.
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  But for those who haven't seen it, why don't you share with us
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  the synopsis? Will do.
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  Will do. Let me let me take a take a
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  stroll over with Old Faithful. No one's going to know that it
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  took me 5. Times I wasn't going to say
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  anything. To say that word synopsis, it's
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  all edited out but it took me 5 times to say it.
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  Real struggle anyone that's been listening knows probably could
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  assume. All right, give it.
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  Give this to us in one take. Here it is.
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  We have a rebellious convict is sent to a psychiatric hospital
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  for evaluation in 1963 Oregon and encourages his docile
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  companions to take more control of their lives and defy the
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  tyrannical head nurse. You think that's well?
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  Tells the story. Some would say that's accurate,
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  but I think some people would argue that.
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  A counter argument coming from Dave.
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  Here we are. Or, coming from Dave, having
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  read something. To to label Nurse Ratchet, if I
• 13:37
  may call her that. Mildred.
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  I don't know if on a first name basis, Mcmurphy thought he was
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  at some point to label her as a tyrant.
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  Tyrannical. Yeah, is, you know, up for
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  debate, I think. I know it leans one way over the
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  other. And his effect, Mcmurphy's on
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  everybody like described there. That's not not accurate, but I
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  don't think it's quite as black and white as it might lead us to
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  believe. OK, but just.
• 14:05
  Yeah, it's a little unfair to Ratchet, you're saying?
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  You know, I think it is I like. Well, we're going to dig into
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  why. Oh yeah, absolutely.
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  I after the break. If only we had sponsors now
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  Phil, if you would be so kind to help me set the stage, you know
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  I like a a good stage setter. Absolutely yes.
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  We our first character on screen is, I was going to say Jessica
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  Fletcher. It is not Nurse Ratchet.
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  Let's just call her Nurse Ratchet.
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  Sure. Louise Fletcher.
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  Louise Fletcher, Thank you. Academy Award winner.
• 14:41
  Absolutely just walking down pretty pretty average looking
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  corridor. Yeah, that didn't do a lot to
• 14:47
  set design in this particular instance, I guess.
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  But we do have an opportunity here to get a sense of the world
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  pre Mcmurphy. Yeah, exactly.
• 14:59
  And you're saying setting the stage, it is ultimately order,
• 15:03
  formality, peace, tranquility, quiet structure that's all going
• 15:09
  on. We see medication being had.
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  That's where we start off, a civil line up of people, nothing
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  extraordinary. Wheelchairs first.
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  Makes sense, right? Absolutely like boarding an
• 15:18
  aircraft. Exactly.
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  That's what it is. There you go.
• 15:21
  You know. I know.
• 15:22
  So all of those things give us an opportunity to, however
• 15:26
  minimally, experience the world before the chaos agent, if you
• 15:32
  call it the chaotician, might say, bringing in Mcmurphy to the
• 15:37
  environment so we have this sterile kind of space.
• 15:41
  This is where I get the first sense of electricity.
• 15:44
  Yeah, OK. Once he's on screen, it's not
• 15:47
  long before I'm really tuned in. Magnetic, Yes, magnetic would be
• 15:52
  another term you can use. There's a few out there with
• 15:54
  electric, but magnetism is certainly one.
• 15:57
  I have a couple for for Louise Fletcher as well.
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  A couple different terms for her.
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  It'll come up soon. Four letter words.
• 16:04
  Wow. I would never say that on
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  national radio. Live right away.
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  Especially after they take the handcuffs off of them.
• 16:15
  Yeah. He's excited.
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  Yep. Has a little sense of, oddly
• 16:18
  freedom. Yeah, screams it, right?
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  But the small talk that he wants to participate in with everybody
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  that he's comes across, if it's the guards, it'll be chief
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  pretty quickly. All that stuff right off the bat
• 16:33
  I've really found engaging. And I want to watch this guy for
• 16:37
  the next, you know, two hours. Yeah, I, I.
• 16:39
  Agree. It's fantastic performance.
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  Right away. Again, that electricity pops and
• 16:43
  I just enjoy the the casual nature of him versus the show
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  structure. Right away you're getting a
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  contrast and it's a real impressive thing that carries
• 16:52
  over when he's introduced the Ward for the first time and he
• 16:54
  sees these people playing cards and kind of introducing himself,
• 16:59
  surveying the the patients and watching him seize the room with
• 17:05
  deck of cards with the nudie girls on there and playing with
• 17:07
  martini, you know? He loves that.
• 17:09
  Yeah, like he's really immediately like, oh, I there's
• 17:13
  some room here. Oh yeah, Oh yeah, he's, he can
• 17:16
  fuck with. This yeah, he's got that, that
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  personality where he can really influence these people and be
• 17:22
  the leader. He basically breaks up the card
• 17:24
  game like he's already immediately in the he's disrupt
• 17:28
  position, right? He's disrupting the.
• 17:30
  He can't play without four players.
• 17:31
  That's it. Not the game they're playing.
• 17:32
  I don't know. What new π knuckle was it π
• 17:34
  knuckle? I don't know.
• 17:35
  I like Euchre personally. Yeah, I thought it was Euchre at
• 17:37
  first. Then I thought it was Hearts.
• 17:39
  Hearts Π Knuckle. Yeah, it could be, could be.
• 17:40
  I don't know how to play that. Nor should you, but.
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  We don't yet know what he's in for, so we kind of meet him as a
• 17:47
  criminal. Presumably he's in the shackles.
• 17:52
  You want me to do the Seinfeld? I was.
• 17:54
  I was setting you up. I can't.
• 17:55
  Do it, George. I can't do the George.
• 17:56
  No, but it's fun to watch you. Try the Queen's accent, you
• 17:59
  know, but. But we don't know what he's in
• 18:02
  there for. And that gets clarified with the
• 18:05
  warden or the chief doctor. I guess it's the warden, it's
• 18:08
  the chief doctor. And he's trying to get to the
• 18:12
  bottom of kind of who and what Mcmurphy is.
• 18:16
  And this is a scene I just think is so indicative of a
• 18:19
  Nicholson's power as a performer.
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  But this also is, I think, great writing.
• 18:24
  It's absolutely, you can't convey that.
• 18:27
  What's your take? It was very fluid.
• 18:29
  It's very an organic conversation.
• 18:31
  It would be just conversational. Yeah.
• 18:32
  It's not like I'm. He's not the ward.
• 18:34
  I understand that. But that's sort of chief doctor.
• 18:37
  So he's the head of the he's up there, he's up there.
• 18:39
  This is his place, It's his place, it's his place.
• 18:43
  And just the casual nature of them talking about the fish.
• 18:46
  Yeah, yeah. How much did it weigh?
• 18:48
  Was 40 and I was actually 32. Did you count the chain?
• 18:52
  Very. Just buddy, buddy.
• 18:54
  And, and I myself, I'm hanging off every word at this point
• 18:59
  that Nicholson is saying. Yeah, totally.
• 19:01
  And the doctor, I thought. I mean I.
• 19:03
  Don't good rapport. Yeah, I don't know what it was
• 19:05
  like. It's not like, Oh my God, he's
• 19:06
  amazing. But he was for what that role
• 19:09
  for Delivered. And then he's trying to get
• 19:11
  through the sort of the rap sheet.
• 19:14
  You know, we all make this. A little familiar dude.
• 19:18
  Luckily, no. But the way he explains it
• 19:20
  though, yeah, you know, it's, it's interesting.
• 19:22
  It's it's like. Nicholson's take?
• 19:23
  You're saying yeah, on a statutory rape charge?
• 19:27
  He said, hey, listen, he didn't sell it to me.
• 19:29
  That's right. But he he sold it to him, I
• 19:31
  think. In 1975, you can probably be
• 19:33
  like, yeah, yeah, 15. But you know, but the real
• 19:36
  question is, is he crazy? Because that's why he's in this
• 19:40
  particular establishment, because he didn't want to work
• 19:43
  too hard, Let's say in the, I don't know if it was medium
• 19:48
  security, high security or minimum security prison that he
• 19:51
  was in. I would imagine minimum, not
• 19:53
  minimum, minimum role. I don't know.
• 19:55
  It's not a. Dangerous.
• 19:57
  Yeah, but in 75, like I had mentioned to you a little while
• 19:59
  ago, I did the Kingston Pen tour.
• 20:01
  Yes, that's right. And they had kids in there as
• 20:03
  young as I think nine years old, and people were doing time of
• 20:08
  upwards to 20 years for theft. OK, I've only done 1.
• 20:12
  I did a tour of Alcatraz in San Francisco.
• 20:15
  Really. Yeah, it was amazing.
• 20:16
  That sounds like something you would do.
• 20:17
  It's pretty cool, Yeah. Yeah.
• 20:18
  I mean, it's a movie thing, right?
• 20:19
  It's like, oh, Escape from Alcatraz I.
• 20:20
  Know this movie? I heard they're gonna reopen it.
• 20:22
  Yeah, so. Ridiculous I.
• 20:25
  Fucking idiot. I was totally distracted by
• 20:27
  that. Yeah, yeah, I was totally like
• 20:29
  into that and other things are happening in my life.
• 20:31
  But I was so distracted by, by that return of Alcatraz.
• 20:35
  Things were happening in the world and I'm like, no, I I need
• 20:38
  to know what's happening at Alcatraz.
• 20:41
  Speaking of getting to the bottom of Alcatraz, you know the
• 20:43
  the doc's mission at this point is to try and get to the bottom
• 20:45
  of RP. And I think you're right about
• 20:48
  the challenge as an audience or the challenge for him is, is he
• 20:52
  faking it to get off work detail or is he legitimately crazy as
• 20:56
  they would say, or insane or whatever else.
• 20:58
  We're only about 14 or 15 minutes into the movie.
• 21:01
  But it does set up the dynamic. And I think to a certain extent
• 21:04
  it invites the audience to try and play the game of crazy or
• 21:09
  not crazy or legitimate or illegitimate choices that are
• 21:13
  being made. Exactly.
• 21:14
  Yeah. Is he crazy or not?
• 21:17
  And he has a couple interesting points.
• 21:20
  He's talking about fighting and fucking yeah.
• 21:22
  Jeez, I don't like saying that word.
• 21:23
  Now we're PG13. Right, I've already said that 6.
• 21:26
  Times but his whole spiel of well, this is what I'm doing and
• 21:30
  if that makes me crazy then I'm wacko.
• 21:33
  And the sense I get is no, that's not crazy and he's not
• 21:36
  crazy at all. And I don't think the Warden
• 21:39
  thinks he's crazy either. No.
• 21:41
  But did you think he's crazy? I don't, and I don't know that
• 21:44
  I. Ever.
• 21:45
  Did you ever? I guess is a better question.
• 21:47
  Yeah, I don't think. That I did.
• 21:51
  Is that a problem? I don't know.
• 21:53
  OK, by the end we'll figure out if that's actually a problem for
• 21:55
  the if it hinders the film at all.
• 21:58
  One of the critiques, and we we won't talk too much about it,
• 22:01
  but one of the critiques of the movie The Shining is that that
• 22:04
  movie is spoiler more or less about a guy's descent into
• 22:09
  madness foundationally. And one of the criticisms of
• 22:12
  that is Kubrick cast Nicholson, and the last movie he made was
• 22:17
  Cuckoo's Nest. So it's like, we've already seen
• 22:19
  Jack be crazy, and now he's supposed to be not crazy and
• 22:24
  then get crazier throughout the course of Shining.
• 22:28
  But I don't really watch this movie with a sense of crazy.
• 22:32
  Not at all. Yeah.
• 22:33
  Like he seems well aware of what he's doing.
• 22:37
  It never crossed. My mind really now whether it's
• 22:40
  supposed to, I don't know. Like I don't, that's what I
• 22:42
  want. I don't know if it matters, but
• 22:44
  for my purposes and for this conversation, I agree.
• 22:47
  I I don't know that I ever really wrestled with is he or
• 22:50
  isn't he? And I don't know yet if the
• 22:52
  movie really wants us to question that.
• 22:54
  But I would definitely cast him in a role like you just
• 22:57
  described because the potential is there.
• 22:59
  Yeah, he's already. Like exactly.
• 23:01
  He's just not that in this movie, but it's it's roaming
• 23:04
  around. Up there I do want to make a
• 23:06
  correction in real time and we don't usually do.
• 23:08
  This. No.
• 23:09
  Yeah, you don't make a lot of mistakes.
• 23:11
  It's not me, it's you. OK, that makes more sense.
• 23:13
  But we did Batman. Oh, we did.
• 23:17
  With Jack Nicholson, that's the thing, a little bit crazy.
• 23:19
  So that's true. Yeah.
• 23:21
  Full credit. He had makeup on.
• 23:24
  He had makeup on. Didn't recognize him.
• 23:25
  Didn't recognize him. Yeah, I think the Joker was a
• 23:27
  little bit crazy. He was cuckoo.
• 23:29
  Yeah, he could probably use a little bit of therapy.
• 23:30
  I would suggest therapy would have been a good.
• 23:32
  It's a session or two and here we have a semi circle.
• 23:36
  Yes, I believe. That's what they it's pretty
• 23:38
  much, I think almost a full circle.
• 23:40
  No, then you'd be behind Mildred.
• 23:43
  That's right. So it's a semi circle at best.
• 23:45
  Actually, come on buddy, let's coin this therapy session one.
• 23:50
  Got it. Noted.
• 23:51
  Yeah, cuz we're gonna go back to this a couple of times, I think.
• 23:54
  I think there's four, OK. OK.
• 23:56
  I didn't count them, but yeah, there definitely is sort of a
• 23:58
  through line for sure. Each character, if you will,
• 24:02
  sort of has a moment and we start off strong with Mr.
• 24:06
  Harding and he seemed to have had some problems with his wife.
• 24:09
  Yeah, they kind of talk about life.
• 24:11
  They get too specific. His wife or his life?
• 24:13
  Yeah. I love this character.
• 24:15
  Harding. Yeah, Yeah.
• 24:16
  It's another just like, I don't know who this guy is.
• 24:18
  Not a clue, but like a just a phenomenal performance.
• 24:22
  I feel it when he's, like, angered.
• 24:25
  And also I can see how others around him might hate him.
• 24:30
  Well, he clearly thinks he's the smartest one in the room.
• 24:32
  That's right, and he probably is, to be honest.
• 24:33
  He could be, but he may not be as smart as he thinks he is.
• 24:36
  But he seems to have the most. He's articulate, yeah.
• 24:40
  He wants to discuss. I would say he's at least crazy.
• 24:43
  If I'm allowed to say, am I allowed to say that?
• 24:45
  Crazy I? Mean, I think we're probably
• 24:47
  past that at this point. You're gonna have to edit a
• 24:49
  whole lot if that's the case. But it's probably not the
• 24:52
  terminology. Yeah, well.
• 24:53
  We're in 1975. Let's put ourselves there.
• 24:56
  We can say a lot of things. Yes, light it up.
• 24:59
  Yeah, I think that we get a sense at this early stages of
• 25:03
  who these characters are, at least within the context of
• 25:06
  their troubles. Let's say so.
• 25:08
  Yeah, Ratchet is trying to engage the crowd in a discussion
• 25:12
  around Harding's problems with his wife.
• 25:15
  He has difficulty connecting, physically or otherwise, with
• 25:19
  his wife. And other people might be
• 25:21
  looking at her. That's right, That's right.
• 25:22
  And he seems to almost enjoy that to a certain extent.
• 25:25
  My wife has that problem. Little gals gazing to me.
• 25:29
  Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Usually it's because I have
• 25:30
  spinach for lunch. Wondering where that smell is
• 25:34
  coming from I. Think it's him?
• 25:36
  Yeah. But yeah, and we kind of get a
• 25:38
  sense Billy is kind of the first one we get to sort of watch, and
• 25:42
  he's hunched over. This is Brad Dourif, Academy
• 25:45
  Award nominee. I can see that.
• 25:47
  But you have him hunched over, He's clearly uncomfortable.
• 25:50
  He's clearly trying to get out of whatever this session is.
• 25:55
  And we watch him kind of contort himself out of contention, can't
• 26:01
  even speak. When he does, it's with a very
• 26:03
  heavy stutter, which luckily Dave takes care of for me every
• 26:07
  week. They never would have known.
• 26:10
  They never would have known, never would have known.
• 26:12
  But I really think this scene does a good job at least of
• 26:15
  setting up Billy and Harding and a little bit of Tabor.
• 26:20
  Christopher Lloyd, who's a nice addition.
• 26:23
  I'm not sure if you. I love to see him, yeah.
• 26:27
  That's it. He's doing the things he's doing
• 26:28
  the. Things we love Christopher
• 26:30
  Lloyd. We do just in general.
• 26:31
  Just in general drinks. I'm I'm a I'm a Krug.
• 26:34
  Star Trek 3, of course. Christopher Lloyd guy.
• 26:37
  Yeah, even before back in the future.
• 26:39
  Wow. That's what I'm saying, buddy.
• 26:40
  You're OK? Yeah, Bold.
• 26:41
  That is actually a bit of a hot take.
• 26:42
  That is hot. I didn't.
• 26:43
  Think I'd ever say that? I can't believe it's on the
• 26:45
  record on live radio. Yeah, maybe I'll.
• 26:48
  Cut it out. Maybe I'll cut it out.
• 26:50
  I'm just sad. I'll see that works.
• 26:51
  But yeah. And so I think it does a good
• 26:53
  job. Tabor, obviously, is no time for
• 26:55
  Harding. There's some relationship like
• 26:57
  that's been broken there. Yeah, basically time to tell him
• 27:01
  to shut the. Fuck up but he like.
• 27:02
  Doesn't want anything to do with.
• 27:03
  It he's the only one that's sort of vocal at this point.
• 27:05
  Billy doesn't want to talk, correct?
• 27:07
  Which is good. Yes, he annoys me when he talks.
• 27:11
  Francis. You say he's a Francis candidate
• 27:13
  and we'll have to maybe renew the description of what that
• 27:16
  means. Devito's character Martini
• 27:20
  Martini, Yep, has no desire to speaketh.
• 27:23
  I know I don't. Think he says anything?
• 27:24
  In the movie, really, not really a couple of things, but
• 27:27
  basically very little chess. Wick, who is vocal throughout
• 27:31
  the movie, almost says something, but he doesn't.
• 27:35
  And yeah, now Ratchet is kind of playing this as the benevolent
• 27:40
  teacher, right? Like she's just trying to get
• 27:42
  people to talk innocently. And eventually, obviously,
• 27:45
  everything explodes into. Chaos.
• 27:48
  Mostly thanks to Christopher Lloyd.
• 27:49
  Yes, that attitude. That's right, not bringing his
• 27:52
  best game. But what I love about it and
• 27:54
  what's Intel, what's telling about it is in the chaos, who is
• 27:58
  enjoying themselves the most? Oh yes, cut to RP.
• 28:02
  Yeah, Mr. Mcmurphy. He's leaning back, big smile on
• 28:05
  his face. Every time the camera focuses on
• 28:07
  him. Yeah, his reactions, whatever it
• 28:09
  may be. It might be as simple as a yawn.
• 28:12
  Yeah, because he's bored of whatever the conversation is.
• 28:14
  Yeah, it's just magic. Just the blink eye thing, like
• 28:17
  yeah, that's trying to. Yeah, my favorite reaction that
• 28:19
  he has is after Harding indicates that he's a little
• 28:23
  light in the loafers and makes this little motion.
• 28:26
  And Mcmurphy loves it, loves it. He just like, that's good stuff.
• 28:30
  You know I'm here for. It and he picks on him a little
• 28:32
  bit, but not in a like mean way, but just kind of a, you know.
• 28:37
  It gets a little bit heated as as time goes on, but this early
• 28:40
  stake, it's like, again, Nicholson's just getting to lay
• 28:43
  the land. Oh, he's trying to feel out.
• 28:46
  He's more of a spectator, yes. At this point, he's not really
• 28:48
  involving himself in this session, nor is Ratchet asking.
• 28:51
  Him of him not. Like it's so early.
• 28:53
  He's a newcomer. That's it.
• 28:54
  Yeah, I've been to a a Wings buddy.
• 28:56
  I know how it works. Oh, yeah.
• 28:57
  No, no, actually, I never went to 1.
• 28:58
  Great place to meet chicks, apparently.
• 29:00
  Though Interesting, yeah. Yeah, go down together.
• 29:02
  Go up together. That's right.
• 29:03
  We'll go from Harding, who is. The most articulate.
• 29:05
  Yeah. And he has the rope established.
• 29:07
  He has the rope all right. The smartest guy in the room,
• 29:09
  let's say. Yeah, like me in this.
• 29:11
  That's right, in this scenario, in this semi circle we're
• 29:14
  sitting in. I think in over the last five
• 29:15
  years I've proven I'm the smart one.
• 29:17
  Five times to say synopsis. Yeah.
• 29:20
  Did you recognize we're looking at 50 years ago now?
• 29:23
  Wow. We've got a lot of people around
• 29:26
  the table. Some we know, some we don't.
• 29:28
  Did you recognize a young Mary? Danny DeVito.
• 29:32
  I'll be perfectly honest with you, Phil.
• 29:33
  If I didn't know he was in the movie, it probably would have
• 29:37
  taken me a little bit. Really.
• 29:39
  Yeah. OK.
• 29:41
  Yeah, he's really young, and he just looked a little bit
• 29:45
  different. He doesn't talk either.
• 29:47
  Like he's kind of mumbling. He's kind of just got facial
• 29:49
  expressions. So yeah, he's not really making
• 29:51
  a scene the way a Danny DeVito might.
• 29:53
  It's not always Sunny in Philadelphia, where that
• 29:55
  character is very abrupt. OK, I don't watch the show, but
• 29:58
  I know enough of it. Like, gotcha.
• 30:00
  This is very quiet, smiling, very playful and very playful.
• 30:05
  Not very smart as far as I can tell.
• 30:07
  No, we get a sense of the playfulness.
• 30:08
  We get a sense of the Celeste and smart part in the blackjack
• 30:11
  game where he's. Betting a dime.
• 30:13
  And yes, he just breaks it on breaks a cigarette, which I get,
• 30:18
  actually, that makes sense. But Nicholson's so great in that
• 30:20
  because he's just like, this is not a dime.
• 30:22
  This is not a nickel. This is a dime.
• 30:24
  This is a cigarette. And now we can't smoke it
• 30:26
  because you broke it in two. Yeah, I have to ask you this
• 30:28
  question because you're a you're a you're a gambler.
• 30:32
  Oh, yeah. Low key, low key, very low key.
• 30:34
  Kids love saying low key. I don't know if you noticed
• 30:36
  that. Yes, annoying, but low key, High
• 30:38
  Roller. That's how I, that's how I do
• 30:40
  it. But he says a dime is the limit.
• 30:44
  Yeah. Isn't that more like the
• 30:45
  minimum? Yeah.
• 30:47
  Not the limit, yeah. Maybe it's the limit, maybe it
• 30:49
  goes up and down OK. Maybe that's it, the dime is the
• 30:52
  thing, because if it's the limit that makes me think nickel is
• 30:54
  nickel. You can play a nickel cuz that's
• 30:56
  you know, Anyway, I don't know if that's the proper terminology
• 30:59
  and maybe you're the smarter 1. So I would suggest that yeah, it
• 31:03
  a limit does indicate a top rather than a bottom.
• 31:06
  OK, which we which? We've already established
• 31:09
  retarding. We'll answer later.
• 31:20
  Philip, I want to talk about pills.
• 31:22
  Oh, my other vice not. Gambling.
• 31:23
  You have quite a collection there as I I'm a little nosy,
• 31:27
  sure. Hey, I'm going to go in your
• 31:28
  bathroom there. You got a Metamucil.
• 31:30
  And Centrum. Actually, it's funny you bring
• 31:33
  up Metamucil. I did a whole bit on Metamucil.
• 31:36
  I was doing a practice episode of something I'm working on, and
• 31:39
  I did a whole thing on Metamucil.
• 31:40
  Do we need it? I do.
• 31:42
  What? Well, there we go.
• 31:44
  I'll send you the clip, please. Maybe I can persuade you that
• 31:47
  you don't need it. Sure, part of the off the shelf
• 31:49
  network coming soon. The title of that segment I'm
• 31:53
  doing is trash or take my cash. Okay, that's a working title.
• 31:56
  Okay, so all right there you go Give it some context there yeah
• 32:00
  I appreciate it. I appreciate it yeah comes
• 32:01
  different flavors, but pills, let's talk about pills.
• 32:04
  Don't get off topic here. Let's do it.
• 32:07
  How do you take your pills? Well, David?
• 32:13
  That's not too personal. There's a couple different ways.
• 32:15
  I am not a a pill guy. You're not a pill guy.
• 32:18
  You know, I broke my ankle and took one painkiller that entire
• 32:21
  time. Yeah, I guess we should be clear
• 32:22
  that I'm not serious when I say that you have a lot of pills.
• 32:25
  No I'm I'm very anti pill generally.
• 32:27
  Me too, me too. But the issue isn't how I take
• 32:30
  it. Yeah, the issue is taking it all
• 32:32
  together. Now there is two ways I know of,
• 32:36
  and there seems to be two ways that Harding knows of it.
• 32:40
  Yes, yes, Murphy is offered a pill and he doesn't want to take
• 32:46
  it because he's not crazy, so he doesn't want to take something
• 32:49
  that he. Doesn't know anything about.
• 32:50
  Yeah, and that's fair. Totally fair, and when it isn't
• 32:53
  taken orally, the nurses offer an alternative.
• 32:57
  Yes, we got a pretty great moment between he and Harding
• 33:00
  where there's a lot of little moments totally in this with
• 33:04
  Nicholson that are just hilarious.
• 33:06
  It's gold, it's subtle, it's small, it's even.
• 33:10
  Harding chuckles. That's it.
• 33:11
  For an actor that has sort of at times being very big in his
• 33:15
  performances and very iconically, Jack, I feel like in
• 33:18
  this, whether it's because he's young or because the character
• 33:21
  or whatever, his ability to just be kind of light on his feet and
• 33:26
  not so big a performer, it does wonders with the character and
• 33:32
  with the movie. I think it's fantastic.
• 33:33
  And he doesn't do enough of it in his later career, I think.
• 33:36
  But on a more serious note, all joking aside, we have to address
• 33:39
  something the music. None of the not the soundtrack
• 33:43
  of of the film. Not.
• 33:44
  Really much music to speak of. Really.
• 33:46
  And that's fine. That's fine.
• 33:47
  It's not old country for old men.
• 33:49
  That one has nothing, apparently.
• 33:50
  Yeah, there's a few movies that have gone on that route.
• 33:53
  But it's a little bit too loud. And I I'm.
• 33:55
  I'm going to have to side with Mcmurphy on this one.
• 33:58
  Too loud. Too loud.
• 33:59
  I've been to weddings and I'm not a dancer.
• 34:03
  And maybe that's my problem. OK.
• 34:05
  Yeah. So I do a lot of sitting and I
• 34:07
  want to talk. I like to chat.
• 34:08
  Gift of gab. Absolutely.
• 34:10
  I can't talk to anybody because the damn music's so loud the
• 34:15
  whole night. Like the dance music?
• 34:16
  Everything, just the whole night is loud, OK?
• 34:19
  Anything is just with. It's just loud.
• 34:21
  Also, like at a bar, sure, everything is loud.
• 34:24
  I'm trying to work my magic, you know what I'm saying?
• 34:26
  And I can't work my magic on the dance floor.
• 34:29
  I do it with my gift of the gab. Fair.
• 34:32
  So I hate it. I think in those settings loud
• 34:35
  music can be a a problem. I I wonder if you were in a
• 34:39
  hospital or an asylum, would you care so much if you're not
• 34:43
  trying to work magic? Well, maybe I am trying to work
• 34:45
  magic. That's fair in there.
• 34:47
  I think I could. Yeah.
• 34:48
  There's room, there's opportunity.
• 34:51
  That's a very good point. Are you with me, though?
• 34:53
  I wouldn't say that I am. You're a dancer then.
• 34:55
  I I'm just I'm fine with music in the background, OK?
• 34:59
  In fact, throughout my work day, music is always on the
• 35:01
  background OK. So to each their.
• 35:03
  Own. What if it's always the Macarena
• 35:04
  though? That's different, right?
• 35:06
  What if I don't like the music itself rather than the?
• 35:09
  Yeah, wedding music. Come on, come on.
• 35:11
  That's not. I know, I know.
• 35:12
  Wedding music. That's not your music.
• 35:13
  No. No one's playing The Who at a
• 35:15
  wedding. Nope, Nope, There you go.
• 35:16
  Unless it's mine. Yeah, I don't remember that one.
• 35:19
  Yeah, trying to forget what we do get in that moment, though,
• 35:24
  What we're LED into is the first moment of friction.
• 35:29
  So Mcmurphy is going in to turn off the music.
• 35:31
  He thinks he kind of owns the place.
• 35:33
  And they're both, like, scared. Yeah, right.
• 35:35
  Oh, don't you leave. Right.
• 35:37
  You got to leave. I'll talk to you if you come
• 35:39
  around. That's right.
• 35:39
  I'll address your issue. That's right.
• 35:41
  Very professional. Totally.
• 35:43
  Mildred is very professional. It's almost to a fault.
• 35:45
  Yes. I really agree.
• 35:47
  And I think, yeah, so you're putting them now for the first
• 35:49
  time really in conflict with one another a little bit.
• 35:52
  He's asking a favor and a request.
• 35:54
  And she for the purposes of power, presumably.
• 35:58
  It's a bit of a struggle this way.
• 35:59
  I would say no. The music is for everyone on the
• 36:03
  ward. We've had people for years that
• 36:05
  this is the way. And then he says we don't want
• 36:07
  to change anything, she says. It's not a bad point and it's
• 36:10
  hard to please everybody. Totally.
• 36:11
  And calls him out on sullying the window.
• 36:15
  You're staining my window. Oh, and he again, He's trying to
• 36:18
  be polite. Is this the moment where she
• 36:20
  tells him to calm down and he's. Like, I'm calm.
• 36:22
  I am not angry. And he, he was pretty calm.
• 36:24
  Totally. Just it's the World Series,
• 36:26
  Phil. That's a baseball guy.
• 36:28
  Yep. Come on.
• 36:30
  You're in that space. He was trying to draft, I think
• 36:32
  was the the original version of the movie.
• 36:35
  It's like I'm trying to draft when we turn the music down.
• 36:37
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 36:38
  You can't draft with with loud music, I'll tell you that much
• 36:40
  for. Free.
• 36:40
  Trying to work my magic here, yeah.
• 36:43
  By the way, I drafted you on the Colorado Rockies.
• 36:46
  Oh, it's a great team, Denver. That's why that's.
• 36:48
  Literally why? That's where you're gorgeous.
• 36:50
  Yeah, that's where you're going to be.
• 36:52
  That's where I want to be. And I want to be there after I'm
• 36:55
  dead, too. OK, Noted.
• 36:56
  Well, they want to watch the World Series.
• 36:59
  He wants to listen to the radio to the World Series, and she
• 37:02
  won't have it. And he asks for a vote and he
• 37:06
  can't get any traction. Nobody wants a piece of.
• 37:08
  This well, here we have we have 9 people and three votes.
• 37:11
  Three votes. Not enough, yeah, but.
• 37:14
  She's reasonable and letting a democratic system take forum
• 37:18
  here. Totally.
• 37:19
  She's, you know, majority rules and he loses and he's kind of
• 37:23
  sulking a little bit. I'd be pretty upset if I could
• 37:25
  watch the World Series. I wouldn't be upset at all.
• 37:28
  I know he would. You rather play Monopoly?
• 37:30
  That's true. Have you played Monopoly lately?
• 37:34
  Yes, really, I'd say within the last.
• 37:36
  Year Are you in a board game environment?
• 37:40
  Yeah, yeah, we love board games here.
• 37:41
  Monopoly is a problem because of its length.
• 37:44
  It is long, yeah. It's a good three hours.
• 37:47
  And the intensity by which some people choose to play it.
• 37:50
  And by some people I mean me, really.
• 37:53
  I am apparently very competitive, pretty competitive.
• 37:56
  You play fair. That is.
• 37:57
  The problem is I play too fair. I respect that.
• 38:01
  So what ends up happening is I get accused of, I'm not saying I
• 38:04
  agree or not, but I get accused of sucking the fun out of it and
• 38:09
  I say if fun is cheating. It's not fun.
• 38:12
  I always wondered what drew us together as friends.
• 38:15
  It's not our taste in movies. No, That much we've established
• 38:18
  over the last five years. Correct.
• 38:20
  Our gaming, yes. We we enjoy heading to Verdangs,
• 38:23
  Yes, and other places along the way.
• 38:25
  Spend a little time in 2049 or whatever the battlefield was.
• 38:29
  You never played that. No, I didn't, not once.
• 38:30
  It was 2042 and you did not play once.
• 38:33
  I owned it, though you did own it on the show nonetheless.
• 38:37
  Phillip I 100% Now I'd like to think I don't suck the fun out
• 38:42
  of it, but it has to be fair and you cannot.
• 38:46
  Cheat, you pre establish the rules and you play by those.
• 38:49
  Rules 100%. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the people I
• 38:51
  play. Nuts doesn't always.
• 38:53
  I will not play with people that cheat.
• 38:55
  Or they just manipulate the rules.
• 38:57
  Let me ask you this one last question about our little talk.
• 38:59
  We don't get to talk about Monopoly since Friday the 13th.
• 39:02
  Correct. And that was only for about 1015
• 39:04
  seconds. Yeah, well, that's a whole
• 39:06
  different story. I hope you're not a buzzkill for
• 39:07
  that one. No, Rules are a little bit less
• 39:10
  important than that. Game side deals.
• 39:13
  You can land on this property and not pay rent for clothes.
• 39:18
  No. In a regular game of Monopoly.
• 39:22
  That's part of a trade. Be this set.
• 39:23
  Yeah, I'll give you Pacific Ave. to complete the set part of the
• 39:26
  deal. But I don't pay rent on.
• 39:28
  Yeah, those three because that's not the rules.
• 39:30
  If that is established at the beginning.
• 39:32
  OK, No problem. OK.
• 39:33
  All right. But if in the middle of your
• 39:35
  game someone's trying to throw something else into the mix that
• 39:39
  no one else has agreed to until right now.
• 39:41
  It's like if I had known that was a deal, then I would have
• 39:44
  traded Marvin Gardens six turns ago.
• 39:47
  No, you wouldn't have. No, I'm not.
• 39:49
  You would never give. I'm never giving up Moon.
• 39:51
  That's your sweet spot right there.
• 39:53
  By the way, The King of Marvin Gardens is a Jack Nicholson
• 39:55
  movie. Wow, well that checks the box on
• 39:58
  connective tissue. Yes, now I have yet to be hosed
• 40:03
  down while playing Monopoly. Okay, Which is what happens
• 40:07
  here. Now the screaming and yelling
• 40:08
  beforehand that that's all that I feel very connected to.
• 40:12
  I wonder if hosed down during strip monopoly would be you
• 40:14
  know. That ones okay, applicable,
• 40:16
  yeah, you got to establish early, yeah, that's a rule,
• 40:18
  happens a rule. Well, the hose in the room kind
• 40:22
  of gives it away. That's right.
• 40:23
  That's right. But yeah, we kind of introduced
• 40:25
  what is ultimately going to be a pretty significant fixture to
• 40:28
  the content of the movie as it goes.
• 40:30
  This water station. I don't really know what to call
• 40:33
  it even, but it's a. Yeah, it's weird.
• 40:35
  This, this whole scene feels like they're all in that room,
• 40:38
  like they're all in a place where you wouldn't play
• 40:40
  Monopoly. I I don't have a vision of the
• 40:43
  moment. I feel martinis actually in a
• 40:45
  tub. Is he not in a tub?
• 40:47
  He. Might I don't have?
• 40:49
  There's a tub, pull it up, buddy, or there's a tub beside
• 40:51
  him. There's a tub tubby situation.
• 40:52
  They called the tub room. Yeah.
• 40:54
  And they actually, they lose tub room privileges, privileges,
• 40:58
  accessibility very soon. I don't want to jump ahead here,
• 41:00
  Phil. No, no, no, But spoiler, they
• 41:02
  lose, they lose that. But anyways, yeah, so I just
• 41:06
  think it's all a weird could well be play, could well be.
• 41:08
  But it makes sense, amplifies the relationships.
• 41:11
  We kind of get a sense because basically Mcmurphy at this point
• 41:14
  doesn't want to be here. And he's frustrated by the
• 41:16
  people who didn't vote for him or with him so far.
• 41:19
  So he kind of fucks with them a little bit with the water.
• 41:21
  Yeah, I kind of like it. It's playful, yeah.
• 41:23
  No one's happy about it, but I I think he's enjoying himself.
• 41:25
  And he wants to bet again. He said this a couple times.
• 41:27
  You want to bet? You want to bet.
• 41:29
  And who always bets $1.00? Do you know the answer to this?
• 41:32
  Did you watch the movie? I did, but I did.
• 41:34
  Taber. Taber yes, that's.
• 41:35
  Right. I'll bet a dollar.
• 41:36
  That's right. Yeah.
• 41:37
  In this case, Harding bets $25 that he can't lift that.
• 41:41
  Yep. And he didn't have a shot.
• 41:43
  No, but but it's a little. Easter egg as a word.
• 41:47
  But something along those lines. It's a bit of a.
• 41:50
  He's planting a seed there's. A seed to be planted, and it's.
• 41:52
  Here, yes, I agree. And what it does as well is you
• 41:56
  get a classic line from him which is at least I tried, which
• 42:00
  is the implication of course is everybody else seems to be
• 42:02
  totally fine with there's lot in life and he doesn't yet know
• 42:04
  that the real sort of truth of it.
• 42:06
  So he's looking around just thinking like, how are you
• 42:08
  people satisfied with this, whatever this life is?
• 42:11
  Those is subtle and as at least I tried says like I tried to
• 42:15
  break the norm and everybody else here feels totally
• 42:18
  comfortable with the norm. And that is the the magic, I
• 42:21
  think of that character and of the movie ultimately in the end.
• 42:24
  Absolutely. I don't think any of them really
• 42:26
  clued into what he was talking about.
• 42:27
  We did as an audience, yes, of course, what he was trying to
• 42:30
  say. But then, I don't know.
• 42:31
  They're slow. Hey.
• 42:32
  Well, you know, Martini is anyway.
• 42:36
  Anyways, we have to get back to session Session 2.
• 42:39
  No 33 sessions. Come on, buddy, there's the
• 42:42
  first one. Come on.
• 42:44
  This is 3. We does not spend a lot of time
• 42:46
  here. Let's keep this short and sweet,
• 42:47
  because Billy's involved. Not a fan of?
• 42:49
  Billy. Not a fan of Billy over time?
• 42:51
  Really not. OK, All right.
• 42:53
  I don't know. This is a a moment for Billy, I
• 42:55
  would say. It is.
• 42:56
  I mean, it's, it's very. Establishes the characters, yes.
• 43:00
  That it does, Yeah. We find out he he loves a little
• 43:02
  easy. Yes, that's the impression I
• 43:04
  get. Totally.
• 43:05
  Yep. Not to say it's not relatable.
• 43:07
  Yeah, I get that for sure. Absolutely.
• 43:09
  A lady named Celia. Yep, that's how it goes.
• 43:12
  He he was in love with her, but his mother didn't know.
• 43:16
  Yeah. And it's really at this point
• 43:17
  that I sort of question why Mildred is asking the questions
• 43:24
  that she's asking. It seems to be beyond her
• 43:28
  profession. Yeah, I don't know.
• 43:30
  I'm just getting inklings. It's, it's not like in your
• 43:32
  face. I don't know.
• 43:34
  She seems to be picking on some of these.
• 43:36
  Characters a little bit you kind of get the impression in this
• 43:38
  moment certainly where she might be pressing buttons.
• 43:43
  Now you're familiar with the a A and when you're discussing
• 43:48
  there, what my understanding of it anyway is is you're sharing
• 43:51
  in an open forum voluntarily and this feels more of it's an open
• 43:56
  forum. I might be willing to convert
• 43:59
  converse around these things one-on-one with my therapist on
• 44:03
  the couch, as it were. This in a group setting, I think
• 44:06
  is can be inappropriate. And I think what ends up
• 44:09
  happening is she asserts her power over Billy in particular
• 44:13
  with forcing him to talk about it.
• 44:16
  But to what end? Like, what is the gain and what
• 44:19
  is the goal and ultimately what is the consequence?
• 44:22
  And so Billy basically being so scared and nervous and anxious
• 44:26
  and she calls him out from the mom perspective.
• 44:29
  That's the sore. Point there clearly and
• 44:31
  establishes that she, the ratchet knows her.
• 44:34
  So there's that other element that there exactly is more of a
• 44:36
  personal thing as well. That's funny.
• 44:38
  I didn't hear that from your mother.
• 44:39
  Absolutely. So you're kind of laying some
• 44:41
  groundwork to what that relationship is and maybe a
• 44:44
  little slight explanation for kind of Billy's approach to the
• 44:47
  whole thing. What I will say, though, at this
• 44:49
  point in the movie, what it has established for me is Fletcher
• 44:55
  Lorraine is absolutely mesmerizing.
• 44:59
  Louise. Fletcher.
• 45:00
  Louise, What did I say, Lorraine?
• 45:02
  Well, I'm getting better. Mesmerizing for sure.
• 45:06
  Talk to. Me, like, we haven't really
• 45:07
  talked about up to this point, but every group session we've
• 45:10
  been in, she has this stare and the way she articulates herself,
• 45:14
  the way she speaks, which is really the same thing.
• 45:17
  But sure, it's kind of subtle. She's ever above A5.
• 45:22
  She hovers right in the middle with everything.
• 45:24
  Even when they're doing something wrong.
• 45:26
  She's very calm. I don't know what it is, but
• 45:29
  it's magic and it's really impressive.
• 45:31
  And I absolutely love her performance.
• 45:33
  And I think we need to give her a little bit of love.
• 45:35
  It's, I know she's not a, you know, ultimately a great person.
• 45:38
  Yeah. Exactly.
• 45:39
  Turns out, yeah, I think you couldn't be more right.
• 45:41
  We've seen traces of it and little signs of it throughout
• 45:44
  the movie. But at this moment, we really
• 45:46
  see the assertion of power that she has over him and ultimately
• 45:50
  Cheswick, who wants to speak out.
• 45:52
  You know, let's move on. Why we keep doing this.
• 45:54
  The way she also shuts him down and reacts to him being
• 45:58
  aggressive, as it were, and the subtle looks and the moments,
• 46:01
  you know, these little quiet things, like you're saying,
• 46:04
  she's never high. Nicholson is a known quantity to
• 46:07
  me. I watched this movie even before
• 46:09
  I'd ever seen it. And I know Nicholson.
• 46:10
  I've seen a dozen movies with him.
• 46:12
  I know him. And I'm surprised by his
• 46:14
  performance. I'm pleased by it.
• 46:16
  But it's a known quantity. Exactly.
• 46:18
  Louise Fletcher really only made this movie.
• 46:21
  This is it, right? She's been in 100, whatever
• 46:23
  other credits. But like, this is the movie and
• 46:27
  there's a reason she wins the Oscar.
• 46:29
  To me, there's a performance in here that is transcendent of a
• 46:34
  career. I mean, ultimately, again, she
• 46:36
  made movies, but it doesn't matter.
• 46:38
  She is. She can have this one movie of 2
• 46:40
  hours and 20 minutes or whatever it is hanging up and walk out
• 46:44
  the door and be like, yeah, that chick deserved an Oscar.
• 46:47
  She's incredible. She's.
• 46:49
  I also use the term captivating. Totally captivating.
• 46:52
  You're right, yeah. But her delivery tricks us
• 46:55
  because it comes across as very professional.
• 46:58
  Totally and almost kind. Yes, almost.
• 47:00
  Almost. Yeah.
• 47:02
  Some would argue she's not the problem, for sure.
• 47:05
  I don't know. Verdict's still out on that.
• 47:07
  That's. Right, let's talk about it.
• 47:08
  I I once had this argument with an ex of mine where they were
• 47:14
  talking about a situation where the the excuse for what was
• 47:18
  being said was the manner in which it was being said.
• 47:21
  The tone. The tone, I was upset about
• 47:23
  something and they said hey, don't worry so much, they're
• 47:28
  only trying to be nice and I would say OK.
• 47:32
  So I proceeded for the next couple of minutes to speak in a
• 47:35
  quiet tone, but basically call her names, tear her emotionally
• 47:40
  down. It's nice.
• 47:41
  Right, unintentionally, right, but to the point where she was
• 47:43
  crying, OK. And I said I'm not saying
• 47:46
  anything loud, like I'm not aggressive.
• 47:48
  I'm not, right? And I'm like, look, I love you.
• 47:50
  Like, you know what I mean? I apologize.
• 47:51
  It was just like a an example of it's not always what you're
• 47:55
  saying. It's how you're saying.
• 47:56
  It's the tone, it's the inflection, it's the actions
• 47:58
  that follow, right? Like all those components.
• 48:01
  So it's not enough to say, well, she's just being professional.
• 48:04
  She's being very respectful. But no, the tone in there is,
• 48:08
  Billy, I'm gonna tell your mother.
• 48:09
  And you're gonna pay for that. Yeah, but she's saying it in
• 48:12
  such a light and happy tone that you wouldn't question it.
• 48:15
  Isn't that worse? Totally.
• 48:16
  It is worse. It's more insidious.
• 48:18
  It's more manipulative. Right.
• 48:20
  It's a conscious decision to play the room.
• 48:23
  And that is dangerous and I think gross.
• 48:25
  And I get the sense that we're not allowed to raise our voice.
• 48:28
  Like it's really frowned upon these days.
• 48:30
  So like I'm just feeling. That's why you got to keep the
• 48:32
  radio up, keep that music high. No one talks.
• 48:35
  Louder than the music. But I agree, you know, as a
• 48:38
  person that has been, as you know, listen to this podcast, I
• 48:41
  can cry at any moment. That's.
• 48:43
  True. And exceptionally, I would say
• 48:44
  an emotionally person, an emotional person that to live in
• 48:47
  a cage like that, I can see a person like Billy who's clearly
• 48:50
  sensitive for right or wrong or performance or otherwise that
• 48:54
  manipulating him and playing him can lead to this obviously some
• 48:57
  pretty dire consequences. And those seeds are are in this
• 48:59
  moment here. I heard you teared up watching
• 49:01
  Alvin and the Chipmunks. I did, but only the squeak wall.
• 49:05
  That was the that was the better one.
• 49:06
  That's my fault, out of all the movies I chose.
• 49:09
  That's what I get. Oh, my goodness.
• 49:13
  But yeah, it's a great moment. And Cheswick, you know, saying
• 49:15
  why can't we move on? We're going to move on to what
• 49:19
  do you got? We got Mcmurphy coming back for
• 49:22
  round two on the voting. Yeah, and again, she's nice
• 49:26
  enough to allow, yes, another vote.
• 49:29
  That's right. Seemingly.
• 49:31
  That's the thing. That's where it gets shady.
• 49:33
  Can I go out on a limb here, please, and say this next little
• 49:36
  chunk is your favorite scene? You are correct, Sir.
• 49:40
  Yes, you are. I never thought about it till
• 49:42
  now, but as the scene is kind of playing on my mind, because I
• 49:44
  really like it as well, I make this could be it.
• 49:46
  This is. This could be it 100%.
• 49:48
  All right, let's talk about it. But we get the opportunity to
• 49:50
  sort of watch Mcmurphy approach the conversation, what we assume
• 49:54
  from a responsible perspective, right?
• 49:56
  Hey, the World Series is still going.
• 49:59
  Game 2 or game three at this point?
• 50:00
  Whatever it is. And so he asks once again, can
• 50:03
  we get the World Series on? And at this point, because it's
• 50:06
  now been a couple of days or he's kind of got these
• 50:08
  relationships, he manages to convince the group again.
• 50:12
  Fletcher is saying things like absolutely majority rules, just
• 50:16
  like the last time he manages to get 9.
• 50:18
  Votes 9 out of nine, seemingly. Exactly.
• 50:20
  So he's thinking he's golden, and then she changes the moves,
• 50:24
  the goal post. Yeah, she doesn't play fair.
• 50:27
  No. What are your thoughts on this?
• 50:28
  Because we just talk about Monopoly and things like that,
• 50:29
  right? Play by the rules, follow it
• 50:31
  down. Yeah.
• 50:32
  How upset were you when she's like, actually?
• 50:34
  Not very upset because again, she, well, I mean, the overall
• 50:39
  rule I think would apply to everybody there.
• 50:42
  Everyone should have an equal say.
• 50:44
  If there's 18 people there, yeah, then I think she's making
• 50:47
  a fairpoint. Sure, but if four of those
• 50:49
  people are comatose. Right, which is Mcmurphy's a
• 50:52
  point, but I agree. You're right.
• 50:53
  Yeah, but you don't need those four.
• 50:55
  You just need one more. And what I really love about the
• 50:59
  scene is how he tries to get vote #10 each individual has a
• 51:05
  sort of a moment, my favorite one personally, And you can
• 51:08
  share yours if you like. Sure is.
• 51:10
  It's very small is the quick little dance he does.
• 51:13
  It's. Fantastic.
• 51:14
  Yeah, it's the best. Yeah.
• 51:16
  There's a guy that's been established dances or the.
• 51:18
  Guy that was in that Mötley Crüe, Berryman, Berryman, and he
• 51:22
  just like odds. Bob wouldn't even look at him.
• 51:24
  That's right. But they're all, they're all
• 51:27
  great. They're all great.
• 51:28
  And he finally gets the vote. He finally gets the vote from
• 51:31
  Chief. Yep.
• 51:32
  But at the time he gets the vote, the vote is closed.
• 51:35
  And that was made clear. She says.
• 51:37
  She looked at the clock. Left in the session.
• 51:39
  She looked at the clock. 3 minutes.
• 51:41
  She is still playing by the rules.
• 51:44
  That's right, yeah. But one of the things that the
• 51:46
  movie is challenging is the humanity, right?
• 51:48
  There's this feeling that she's the bad person, and I think
• 51:51
  ultimately she proves to be. But in these moments, these
• 51:54
  early moments, I think it's played specifically on the line
• 51:58
  so you can choose aside exactly. It makes for an interesting
• 52:01
  dynamic, and it's really all setting up probably the best
• 52:05
  part of the best scene. Yes, yes, this is it.
• 52:09
  Yeah. This is really the meat of it.
• 52:11
  Is Nicholson pretending that he's watching the World Series?
• 52:14
  Yeah, he gets fed up, right? That's the thing.
• 52:16
  Yeah, he's frustrated, obviously, But he's like, I'm
• 52:18
  going to watch the game, even if I got to pretend I'm watching it
• 52:21
  on this small 4 by 3, black and white doesn't matter.
• 52:25
  You see the reflections of their faces in it.
• 52:27
  But the ability for him to get everybody to believe that
• 52:32
  they're watching the game, they're all excited.
• 52:35
  They're all cheering to the point where they've drowned out
• 52:38
  the music. That's right.
• 52:40
  That she you know. Yeah, it goes back to the sort
• 52:42
  of status quo, right? And he can't have it.
• 52:44
  He won't have. It no shouldn't have this.
• 52:45
  Truly is my favorite moment is the rapturous nature of a
• 52:50
  sports. I think, you know, anybody kind
• 52:51
  of getting that excited. It just excites me by nature,
• 52:54
  you know, absolutely. Even I hate baseball as you
• 52:55
  know, but I can really get into that.
• 52:58
  I think the power of like you saying, the charisma, the
• 53:01
  electric energy that he can bring is a Nicholson thing and
• 53:05
  gets everybody on the ward completely captivated.
• 53:07
  Clearly there's nothing on here. We know that and even they know
• 53:09
  that. But you're allowing yourself to
• 53:11
  get in the mindset. And I think what it does is it
• 53:15
  brings the outside world in. One of the points of this movie
• 53:18
  is that that these people that live in here are in such rules
• 53:22
  and all the structures that have been created all the.
• 53:24
  Walls. All the same schedule.
• 53:26
  That's it. Everything is the same that
• 53:29
  having Mcmurphy come in and offer excitement, joy, laughter,
• 53:35
  manic energy, frustration, rage at times.
• 53:39
  It reminds me of the facts of life.
• 53:41
  Great show Blair, which do you keep, the good or the bad?
• 53:44
  Exactly. You know what?
• 53:45
  I you know where I was going with that.
• 53:47
  You take them both. You take.
• 53:49
  Exactly. You take them both.
• 53:51
  While this is happening, you also get a couple camera shots
• 53:54
  back to Mildred, and she just has the stare.
• 53:57
  Absolutely. That stare can win you the
• 53:59
  Oscar. That's it.
• 54:00
  I don't know what it is about her look.
• 54:01
  It's the hair, too. Like the way it's parted.
• 54:03
  I don't know. Yeah.
• 54:04
  Yeah. No, it's a great look, it's a
• 54:06
  great character. It doesn't take much to set a
• 54:08
  steam, and you can immediately feel her dampening whatever is
• 54:11
  happening on the other side. So as high as Nicholson's
• 54:13
  getting and excitement that's following watching this game,
• 54:17
  one cut to her face and it's dead and buried.
• 54:21
  Like it's just like an immediate moment.
• 54:31
  I would say I've had questions around the security protocols up
• 54:37
  to now we return to the basketball court.
• 54:41
  Yep, which we do. Which is secure barbed wire.
• 54:44
  Yeah, exactly. Barbed wire.
• 54:46
  I saw a lot of that at the Kingston Pen.
• 54:48
  Sure. And it looks like that would
• 54:50
  really hurt. Yeah, like that.
• 54:51
  It's not good, not pretty. It'd RIP it to shreds.
• 54:55
  That's the whole point, I suppose.
• 54:56
  We haven't talked about the chief, but what we do know, he
• 54:59
  doesn't talk a lot. That's right.
• 55:01
  A moment coming up. Yeah.
• 55:03
  He's a tall guy. And there was a bit of a a
• 55:06
  foreshadowing of this because Nicholson had got on the
• 55:09
  shoulders of Bancini. That's right.
• 55:12
  I'm so impressed. I remember these names.
• 55:13
  Really impressive. Yeah.
• 55:14
  Yeah. And he thinks that he'll be tall
• 55:16
  enough to actually get over the fence and the barbed wire.
• 55:21
  And he knows the whole bus system here.
• 55:23
  He sees people get day passes and he has seen an opportunity.
• 55:28
  To get out and he basically, yeah, hi, hijacks this bus and,
• 55:33
  you know, he takes the crew on a fishing trip, apparently, yeah.
• 55:37
  Picks up candy. Does, of course pick up candy.
• 55:39
  Of course he's looking for a conjugal visit.
• 55:41
  I think you might call. That look like a trailer Swift.
• 55:46
  I'm kind of stealing that term, but she did look a little bit
• 55:49
  like Taylor Swift and she. Lived at a trailer.
• 55:51
  So I think it's perfectly, absolutely, totally reasonable.
• 55:53
  Totally reasonable. Thank you.
• 55:54
  Thank you. And yeah, they go on a bit of a
• 55:56
  joyride and they go fishing. This is a scene I don't love.
• 56:00
  Really, that takes a lot for you to say from one of your movies.
• 56:04
  It's not a problem, it's not something that takes me out of
• 56:06
  it, but I wondered. Pacing.
• 56:09
  A little bit about pacing. I was curious about not enough
• 56:14
  breast. I think what what my struggle
• 56:17
  was, I think when I'm watching it the first time and I haven't
• 56:21
  seen this movie in many, many years.
• 56:22
  So I when I was watching this most recent time, I hadn't
• 56:25
  remembered the scene, but I remember thinking, Oh, they get
• 56:28
  out. And I felt like that kind of
• 56:31
  hurt the overall premise of the movie.
• 56:35
  Now what? I was just the second
• 56:36
  containment. I didn't mind it as much because
• 56:38
  I felt like, oh, no, no, wait, you're just doing something
• 56:40
  different. But I kind of had my head that
• 56:42
  these guys never left. And the whole point was that
• 56:44
  Mcmurphy and they were stuck in these walls.
• 56:48
  Do you think it's the feasibility of him getting?
• 56:50
  Out like that, No, I don't think about things.
• 56:52
  That checks out. Doesn't bother.
• 56:52
  He gets over the barbed wire. Sure.
• 56:54
  Good movie with Pam Anderson. Yeah, that's right.
• 56:56
  Doesn't bother me. It didn't.
• 56:58
  That didn't affect me. It was more of taking 15 minutes
• 57:00
  of a movie, putting them on a boat and the high jinks.
• 57:04
  Look at martini on a boat. You know, look at Christopher
• 57:07
  Lloyd on a boat. It felt incongruous to what I
• 57:10
  was watching prior. You know what?
• 57:11
  It didn't quite settle right with me.
• 57:14
  I just thought it kind of slowed the movie down a little bit.
• 57:16
  But I understood its representation, yes.
• 57:19
  What says freedom? Like the sea?
• 57:22
  You're right. Like the wide openness of it,
• 57:24
  Totally. I do think what's noteworthy
• 57:27
  here though, is that when he left.
• 57:30
  He was over the he was over the barbed wire.
• 57:32
  He's over the barbed. Wire.
• 57:33
  He's a free man. Basically.
• 57:35
  More or less. He decided to take them on a
• 57:40
  joyride. Well, it's not quite a joyride,
• 57:42
  but you know it's not. World.
• 57:44
  I've got it written down here. Joyride.
• 57:45
  What do you think of that from a character perspective?
• 57:48
  Like that sounds like a pretty nice thing to do.
• 57:51
  Like, are his intentions good? I think is my question.
• 57:54
  I think that's a good question. I do think that what we're
• 57:56
  seeing is a softening of Mcmurphy, right?
• 57:58
  He doesn't want to be there. He's in it for the sort of just
• 58:01
  the short haul. He's having some fun.
• 58:03
  And yeah, he's risking kind of everything on some level, right?
• 58:06
  You would assume there would be consequence.
• 58:08
  I think he cares what he's doing.
• 58:10
  And obviously, this plays out throughout the rest of the
• 58:11
  movie. And it's proven to be, I think,
• 58:14
  pretty effective because you get Cheswick and Tabor and Martini
• 58:19
  on the boat with the fish that they caught grinning ear to ear
• 58:24
  and holding it high. When they get back to the shore
• 58:26
  and the cops are there, whatever, like to take them
• 58:28
  back. They seem pretty happy.
• 58:29
  Yeah, so it's like it is that moment of touching the sun.
• 58:32
  You're you're free for a moment even and if you go right back to
• 58:34
  the ward. So I think it's really good
• 58:36
  this. Movie does a really good job, I
• 58:38
  think, of blurring those lines of being self-serving, being
• 58:41
  caring. Yeah.
• 58:42
  And the same as Nurse Ratched on her side, too, right.
• 58:45
  Just really kind of. Yeah.
• 58:46
  It's like I'm watching this without my glasses.
• 58:48
  OK, A. Little blurry?
• 58:50
  Sure. Yeah, what this leads to, I
• 58:52
  think is a really important moment in the movie.
• 58:54
  So after we talk about consequences and we get the
• 58:58
  round table more or less, where the warden is trying to figure
• 59:01
  out what to do with him and they want to send him back.
• 59:03
  He's not crazy. Get him back to the prison.
• 59:06
  What's the right call? Ultimately, yeah, I think it is.
• 59:08
  And we get Ratchet, and I think this is her opportunity to fuck
• 59:14
  with him because I think ultimately she's been the butt
• 59:18
  of his jokes and we know that she's manipulative.
• 59:22
  She's not done with them. That's the thing, I think in
• 59:24
  this moment when she says we're just going to kick the can down
• 59:26
  the road, I think we keep him here.
• 59:29
  And we don't yet know what that means.
• 59:31
  Neither does Mcmurphy, but it means something.
• 59:34
  But it means something that we know that he's not going back to
• 59:37
  where he came from exactly. And so the die is cast at this
• 59:40
  point and it's a really pivotal moment.
• 59:42
  We're about an hour and 5 minutes into the movie, so we're
• 59:45
  approaching that halfway pivot point.
• 59:47
  And this, I think, really does that job.
• 59:49
  And the next scene is very interesting to that point, but
• 59:52
  also something else we need to address first, please.
• 59:55
  Wheelchairs in the pool. Yeah.
• 59:57
  Yeah. Again, we're having security
• 59:59
  issues and we're having safety concerns.
• 1:00:01
  I know he's wearing a life jacket but still, I don't think
• 1:00:04
  you're allowed to just wheel them in like that.
• 1:00:06
  Maybe you are, I don't know. I mean, it's a ramp.
• 1:00:08
  I don't know. It's about what to happen, so I
• 1:00:10
  suppose so. And no one's stopping.
• 1:00:11
  Yeah, no one's stopping. But it's 1975.
• 1:00:13
  So who? Knows who knows who knows
• 1:00:14
  things? Have changed.
• 1:00:16
  Now they've got like. A crane maybe to.
• 1:00:18
  Do that, yeah, yeah. But more importantly, Mcmurphy
• 1:00:21
  has, I want to say, a very mild altercation, yes, with one of
• 1:00:26
  the one of the orderlies, Washington.
• 1:00:28
  Washington, Yes, exactly. And Mcmurphy thinks 68 days I'm
• 1:00:33
  out. There seems to be some
• 1:00:34
  confusion. Between and, Nicholson, just
• 1:00:36
  like grinning ear to ears, says 68 days, man.
• 1:00:39
  And what he doesn't realize, and what we now discover, is that he
• 1:00:43
  is with them. He's.
• 1:00:44
  Committed, and he's committed and until they say it's OK, he
• 1:00:47
  can't get out. And that is a gut punch watching
• 1:00:51
  his face when he hears that. Again, it's a visual medium.
• 1:00:55
  And this is the problem I have with it's a bit of a rant, but
• 1:00:58
  you know, people tend to view movies nowadays.
• 1:01:01
  I'm not sure if you've caught this, but if you're watching a
• 1:01:04
  movie in recent times, what you'll often hear are things
• 1:01:07
  like Joey, my brother, come on back.
• 1:01:11
  That's good. That's all.
• 1:01:12
  That's right. But the idea is that you need to
• 1:01:15
  explain what is happening verbally, because what's
• 1:01:19
  happening now is nobody's watching the fucking movie.
• 1:01:22
  They're watching their phones. So you're going to watch your
• 1:01:26
  phone and wait for the loud bang or the loud shouting or
• 1:01:29
  whatever. That's sad.
• 1:01:30
  And you explain what's happening on the screen rather than
• 1:01:34
  actually doing the thing. So imagine this scene on your
• 1:01:38
  phone. Wow, right?
• 1:01:39
  You miss Nicholson's face, you miss Washington's face, you miss
• 1:01:43
  the exchange between them. All you hear is 68 days and you
• 1:01:47
  have no idea what's left. That is an innocuous
• 1:01:49
  conversation. But watch the scene.
• 1:01:52
  Watch the moment. It is a gut punch to the
• 1:01:55
  characters. And as an audience, I'm like, Oh
• 1:01:58
  my God, this guy is screwed. Phillip, every once in awhile,
• 1:02:02
  it doesn't happen often. You being a really good point.
• 1:02:06
  That's that. That's a good one.
• 1:02:07
  I never actually thought of that.
• 1:02:08
  That's very interesting. You just miss it.
• 1:02:10
  You would miss it. Yeah, it's funny because we
• 1:02:11
  talked when we watched Jurassic Park.
• 1:02:14
  We we made fun of the fact they had to explain what happened to
• 1:02:17
  the bullets. Yes, same thing.
• 1:02:18
  This is way back. That's just that's just bad.
• 1:02:21
  Writing yeah, yeah, yeah. Perfect example actually,
• 1:02:23
  because in another world you would just have the shot of the
• 1:02:26
  pan over to the gun and Vince looking over and moving on.
• 1:02:31
  And nowadays there would be a I'm the guy that took your
• 1:02:34
  bullets. I did this.
• 1:02:35
  I did that. And because you wouldn't have
• 1:02:37
  seen it happen, so you have to. Yeah.
• 1:02:39
  Anyway, it's really disgusting. If you really know it.
• 1:02:41
  It's kind of like the Spielberg thing.
• 1:02:43
  We talked about it. Like once you see it or you hear
• 1:02:45
  it, pay attention. It's current movies.
• 1:02:47
  It's like more recent stuff. And Netflix in particular,
• 1:02:50
  because they know you're not watching Netflix, you're just
• 1:02:53
  watching your phone and. Whose fault do you think that
• 1:02:55
  is? Ours.
• 1:02:56
  OK. It's just, it's laziness.
• 1:02:58
  It's like laziness of film makers.
• 1:03:00
  It's laziness of the studios. They don't care.
• 1:03:02
  They just want you watching it. They don't care what's
• 1:03:03
  happening. That's why a four episode show
• 1:03:06
  is extended to 8. You mentioned that because they
• 1:03:10
  want your they want to clock the hours on the viewing.
• 1:03:13
  They don't care what's on there. They just need content.
• 1:03:16
  And everyone suffers 100%. Everyone suffers.
• 1:03:18
  And because there's nothing interesting happening on the
• 1:03:20
  screen, you have to watch something else because you're
• 1:03:23
  bored. I'm as guilty as them.
• 1:03:25
  The kids, you know me, I'm a doom stroller.
• 1:03:27
  I got issues, but I always make sure for there's always one
• 1:03:31
  watch, one guaranteed watch where I am completely locked in
• 1:03:35
  the other one. If I'm making my notes on my
• 1:03:36
  phone, that's a different. Watch.
• 1:03:38
  That's a different circumstance for sure.
• 1:03:40
  I appreciate that. But the only time I know I can
• 1:03:41
  watch it uninterrupted by the dog or the whatever's that is
• 1:03:45
  happening in the world is in a movie theater.
• 1:03:47
  And why I get so offended when somebody else breaks that
• 1:03:49
  contours. Anyway, well for those people
• 1:03:52
  that are paying attention, I am because we're on now session 4.
• 1:03:57
  Yes, the big one. Yeah, I'm counting, yes.
• 1:04:00
  Yeah, we'll get to session 9 eventually.
• 1:04:04
  God, if people only knew. Yeah, and here we find out who's
• 1:04:09
  voluntary, which I didn't realize was a thing.
• 1:04:12
  Yeah, versus who's committed game changer.
• 1:04:15
  Yeah, now that's pretty self-explanatory.
• 1:04:18
  And Harding is the first say, I don't really know what you want
• 1:04:22
  me to explain here. I'm voluntary.
• 1:04:24
  Like, I don't, I don't know what's going on with you, but
• 1:04:26
  you know, yeah. He basically Mcmurphy's pissed
• 1:04:29
  off because he's like, you know, I told you guys I was going to
• 1:04:31
  fuck with her and nobody told me.
• 1:04:35
  And so he calls out Harding in particular.
• 1:04:37
  Then Ratchet kind of reveals that 2/3 of the ward Billy.
• 1:04:43
  Yeah, he's like Billy. You're even you.
• 1:04:45
  And he's like, really? You're 17.
• 1:04:46
  Like you should be. Yeah, you know, out cruising the
• 1:04:49
  town. But it's just the chronics
• 1:04:50
  mostly that are kicking around. That's it.
• 1:04:53
  That's a real gut punch. As I said, that realization
• 1:04:56
  followed by everybody else could just leave and leave him alone.
• 1:05:00
  And he's the big outsider coming into this situation.
• 1:05:04
  And now effectively he's one of three insiders in the group.
• 1:05:09
  That is a power dynamic change that I think is very effective
• 1:05:13
  and I find very compelling. It does though make me question
• 1:05:18
  his following actions. Cheswick wants his cigarettes.
• 1:05:22
  Yes, he really does. Well, hey, they shouldn't be
• 1:05:25
  betting your cigarettes. That's right.
• 1:05:27
  And again, Ratchet clearly says this is what's happening to your
• 1:05:30
  cigarettes and your money. It makes complete sense to why
• 1:05:34
  she's doing what she's doing. Would you agree?
• 1:05:36
  Yes. OK, within reason, with a
• 1:05:39
  caveat. All right, I'll take it.
• 1:05:41
  But unfortunately, Mcmurphy is pissed off.
• 1:05:44
  Yeah, very. Yeah.
• 1:05:45
  Frustrated, to say the least. Also reasonable.
• 1:05:49
  Breaks the glass to get the cigarettes to basically shut up
• 1:05:53
  Cheswick. But that's not a good thing to
• 1:05:56
  do. That's all I'm saying is
• 1:05:58
  breaking glass could run you into some.
• 1:06:00
  Trouble sure does. Certainly later it does, but it
• 1:06:04
  also shows the frustration, right?
• 1:06:05
  So I think it's like an appropriate action.
• 1:06:07
  But I agree Mcmurphy is is not in the right space given the
• 1:06:11
  last. Little while of how he kind of
• 1:06:13
  reacts to that. Well, we know he does make some
• 1:06:15
  bad decisions, right. He's got into into some previous
• 1:06:18
  tussles, correct, 55 at least. Let's not forget that.
• 1:06:21
  That's right. And this right now is a tussle,
• 1:06:24
  correct? Full on yeah.
• 1:06:26
  He ends up basically getting into a fight.
• 1:06:29
  Yeah. One of the.
• 1:06:30
  I don't know, was it Washington or somebody else?
• 1:06:32
  Yeah, I think he was Washington. He's sort of the main orderly, I
• 1:06:34
  think. Ends up getting subdued and
• 1:06:37
  luckily Chief. Whom we haven't spent much time
• 1:06:40
  with, but finally kind of makes a real presence in the movie.
• 1:06:42
  You may have this scene where he's playing basketball, which
• 1:06:44
  is kind of funny. There's a bit of a bond there.
• 1:06:46
  That's right. I would say that's right, which
• 1:06:47
  is about to get. Stronger, yes.
• 1:06:50
  And it ends up being a a big reveal.
• 1:06:53
  So the sort of punishment for this fracas in the ward is that
• 1:06:59
  Chief and Mcmurphy get sent. Absolutely to the 4th floor and
• 1:07:04
  Cheswick and Cheswick too. That's right.
• 1:07:06
  Forget that buddy. He does not want to be there.
• 1:07:07
  I got the impression he's been there possibly once before.
• 1:07:10
  That's right, he knows what's coming.
• 1:07:12
  And we get a great moment where the introduction to Chief being
• 1:07:17
  commutative. He's neither.
• 1:07:20
  Deaf, nosy fruit. Yeah.
• 1:07:22
  Great. Marketing.
• 1:07:23
  Great. Yeah, also deaf and Dumb, key
• 1:07:26
  components of the world movie Tommy, also released in 1975.
• 1:07:29
  Well, there you go. Always come in twos.
• 1:07:31
  But to reveal that Chief can hear and speak and has been no
• 1:07:35
  problem throughout this entire time is really a big reveal and
• 1:07:39
  kind of funny to me. However.
• 1:07:41
  What? What's your problem?
• 1:07:42
  There are always funny problems with these movies.
• 1:07:44
  The only problem I have is it a particular moment.
• 1:07:46
  Wow, where was Chief when he needed the 9th vote?
• 1:07:49
  The 10th vote? If he could hear everything and
• 1:07:52
  see everything, there's a moment there where he could have really
• 1:07:55
  done a solid for his buddy. OK, I want, I'm going to push
• 1:07:57
  back on that for two reasons. Ultimately he did vote.
• 1:08:02
  He did 3 minutes late, minutes late, but he did vote.
• 1:08:05
  But he loves his schedule. Right.
• 1:08:08
  Yeah, maybe he doesn't like baseball.
• 1:08:09
  That's fair, too. He's more of a creeping.
• 1:08:11
  I wouldn't have voted. I have another point, please.
• 1:08:13
  A third one. So now you have You came and
• 1:08:15
  it's over. Yeah.
• 1:08:16
  It's over for you, Phillip. It's over for you.
• 1:08:18
  He needs to continue this facade.
• 1:08:21
  He doesn't want anyone to know. So B exposes himself for the
• 1:08:24
  vote. True.
• 1:08:25
  Come on buddy. I don't think that you could
• 1:08:27
  have played both the angles. You're always looking to play
• 1:08:29
  multiple. Angles.
• 1:08:30
  But I like the Juicy Fruit line. I think it's kind of funny and
• 1:08:32
  it's like clearly this bonding moment between the two that I
• 1:08:34
  think is really cool. If I'm not mistaken, Nicholson
• 1:08:37
  has a plan. Yes.
• 1:08:38
  That involves our great nation, perhaps.
• 1:08:41
  Yeah, the big escape plan to Canada.
• 1:08:43
  Yeah, right. Bad idea.
• 1:08:44
  We'd have them. Yeah.
• 1:08:45
  Lovely. He and Chief concoct a plan, He
• 1:08:48
  wants Chief in on it, and they're going to go to Canada.
• 1:08:51
  Good asset. Yeah, totally good size Chief
• 1:08:54
  is. Less than excited about it.
• 1:08:57
  He's less than excited about anything that's true.
• 1:08:59
  He doesn't really kind of bring the energy, let's say to the
• 1:09:03
  that's right, to the movie. But I'll tell you what does
• 1:09:05
  bring the energy is electroshock therapy.
• 1:09:10
  Is that what that is? That is shock therapy, right?
• 1:09:12
  Yes, it is. OK.
• 1:09:13
  I don't have any experience in it.
• 1:09:15
  Nor should I. No, I don't.
• 1:09:17
  That's kind of outlawed. I.
• 1:09:18
  Think at this point. And I think it's probably clear
• 1:09:20
  why this scene I found pretty astonishing.
• 1:09:24
  He played pain. Pretty good.
• 1:09:25
  It's incredible what happens right here and I'm sure it's
• 1:09:29
  probably well researched and like you know, it's authentic,
• 1:09:32
  but I'm blown away by the performance and like the all of
• 1:09:36
  that stuff I I think is really incredible, but I'm also just
• 1:09:39
  the idea of it being a thing for decades probably I mean it's not
• 1:09:44
  just unique 197456 this is how they dealt with people.
• 1:09:48
  It's it's crazy and how Mcmurphy's character is so like,
• 1:09:54
  he was introduced. He's like a feather on the wind,
• 1:09:56
  right? He's like, yeah, you know, a
• 1:09:57
  little dab will do you. It's a great.
• 1:10:00
  Line. Is that where that came from?
• 1:10:01
  I think it's been around before. My mom used to say that.
• 1:10:04
  Absolutely, it's like in the zeitgeist, but I I think it was
• 1:10:06
  before this. I was wondering if it was the
• 1:10:08
  ogi wish it were, but I think it probably came before.
• 1:10:11
  But anyway, but I like the idea that he's still so casual about
• 1:10:13
  it. Oh, what is this?
• 1:10:15
  Oh, it's, you know, current. It's it helps, you know, it's
• 1:10:17
  like. What?
• 1:10:18
  All right, doesn't really know and they don't make a meal out
• 1:10:22
  of it. This scene in another context
• 1:10:24
  could have been like 6 minutes, Like it could have been close up
• 1:10:27
  on the dial and oh, we're not that's right.
• 1:10:30
  Music swelling and like really being a thing.
• 1:10:33
  And it's fast click, click and ZAP.
• 1:10:37
  And his reaction to the zapping is fucking incredible.
• 1:10:39
  It really is good with the mouth guard when they're like, so you
• 1:10:42
  don't spout your tongue. It's like, I don't know what's
• 1:10:44
  coming. Like, you know, again, as a as a
• 1:10:46
  first time viewer, that scene, it's just like, Oh my God, it's
• 1:10:51
  terrifying. Well, you know, what's also
• 1:10:53
  interesting, Philip, is we get a a glance of what may have
• 1:10:58
  happened in these types of institutions.
• 1:11:00
  And like we talked about in Jaws, the aftermath of the
• 1:11:05
  effect of painting sharks as terrible animals that are going
• 1:11:10
  to attack you. We started killing them and what
• 1:11:13
  have you. Listen to our Jaws episode.
• 1:11:15
  It's all there. From what I understand, a little
• 1:11:18
  bit of research I did is this movie actually painted a pretty
• 1:11:21
  bad picture for the people that worked in these institutions and
• 1:11:26
  they began releasing people from these institutions who then went
• 1:11:31
  into homelessness. Now again, I don't know exactly.
• 1:11:35
  How the connect the? Facts of it all, but it's just
• 1:11:38
  an interesting kind of thing to think about having had that Jaws
• 1:11:41
  conversation and maybe how much truth there is to that.
• 1:11:45
  Like the power of film, right? And the effect of our perception
• 1:11:49
  of what actually happens in real life in the same sort of
• 1:11:52
  situation. So the ratchets of the world,
• 1:11:54
  like, got to protect the patients from the ratchets, so
• 1:11:56
  let them free. Yeah.
• 1:11:58
  But in reality, maybe there are no ratchets, right?
• 1:12:01
  They're actually quite good and I imagine there's a mix.
• 1:12:05
  Of both, of course, like in everything, right?
• 1:12:06
  There's nothing. There's nothing so black and
• 1:12:10
  white, as we said. As we say, anyways, luckily the
• 1:12:13
  shock therapy didn't seem to have any permanent effects on
• 1:12:17
  our good friend Mcmurphy didn't take well.
• 1:12:20
  He gave the impression it did and then gave.
• 1:12:22
  Chief the wink. Yeah, he's having a little fun
• 1:12:23
  with. Them exactly and that's what he
• 1:12:25
  does. That's right.
• 1:12:26
  That's what he does and one line I have to share Phillip because
• 1:12:29
  he delivers it so well. He refers to everybody as the
• 1:12:32
  mental defective league in formation.
• 1:12:35
  I don't know. And it also leads us to really
• 1:12:37
  our first night scene. Yes.
• 1:12:41
  Plus a little bonus for you. I was so happy.
• 1:12:44
  It's Christmas. It's Christmas time, OK?
• 1:12:46
  I'm so pleased you can't see because there's no windows.
• 1:12:48
  No, well, that's not true. That's not true.
• 1:12:50
  That's not true. Some cages.
• 1:12:51
  But there, you know, there's some Garland and whatnot hanging
• 1:12:54
  and and Christmas music playing over that beautiful radio that
• 1:12:59
  exists on the third floor. Yeah, we're kind of setting up
• 1:13:03
  what is ultimately the finale we get to introduce.
• 1:13:06
  It was like the last 20. Yeah, we have Mcmurphy in a
• 1:13:10
  quiet moment with Chief basically saying I can't take
• 1:13:13
  it, I got to get out of here. And that's a moment of we talked
• 1:13:16
  about this in a number of different movies with different
• 1:13:18
  actors. It's a moment of vulnerability
• 1:13:20
  that up until now we haven't seen, right.
• 1:13:22
  And then this is the first moment we get to see him kind of
• 1:13:26
  break it down and just be like, I got, I got to get out of here.
• 1:13:29
  And he asked chief to join. And chief kind of gives his
• 1:13:31
  poignant quiet moment. And he's not too verbose, but he
• 1:13:36
  gets to talk about how I, I can't do it.
• 1:13:37
  Like I just, I don't have it in me.
• 1:13:38
  I don't have the. Talks about his father.
• 1:13:40
  Exactly. He was sucking on the bottle,
• 1:13:43
  but the bottle is sucking you like the life out of you, more
• 1:13:46
  or less. And I felt that to be very
• 1:13:48
  poignant, very powerful, because that's really true.
• 1:13:51
  Yeah, yeah. You don't feel it, right?
• 1:13:53
  You know, Same thing with a cigarette or whatever around.
• 1:13:55
  She's like, Oh yeah. The power you you give to that
• 1:13:57
  bottle is. Not good, no, no.
• 1:14:01
  And it's overtaking, right. And so it's a it's a powerful
• 1:14:03
  moment. And certainly speaking about
• 1:14:05
  Indigenous creed, you know what, like there's a lot of sort of
• 1:14:07
  back story in that that he manages to succinctly say in in
• 1:14:10
  very brief moments. And you're like, wow, I can
• 1:14:13
  appreciate the power of that without anything else.
• 1:14:24
  It's Turkle time. It's Turkle, it's Turkle time.
• 1:14:26
  I also refer to him as P Diddy's grandpa.
• 1:14:31
  This is Scatman Crothers. David.
• 1:14:33
  I never heard of him. He is in The Shining, plays
• 1:14:36
  Halloween, and he's also in where I probably first frankly
• 1:14:41
  heard of him or knew him is. Daylight.
• 1:14:45
  Transformers, the movie. He plays the voice of Jazz, the
• 1:14:49
  Autobot. Interesting.
• 1:14:50
  Yeah. So I would have heard that voice
• 1:14:52
  and then found out later, like, oh, he's actually an actor, and
• 1:14:54
  he's in movies I love. But that is sort of the
• 1:14:58
  introduction of Terkel, whom we haven't met at all.
• 1:15:01
  No, because it's again, it's our first night time scene.
• 1:15:03
  So coming in this late into the game, sort of like, oh, I know
• 1:15:06
  him, but maybe in 75 it wasn't a thing, right, Like he's just a
• 1:15:09
  guy. I know now we sort of took it
• 1:15:11
  not for granted about Nurse Ratchet was just always there,
• 1:15:14
  correct, omnipresent. She's doing her ten to six shift
• 1:15:18
  or whatever it may be. And then we have this guy who
• 1:15:21
  Turkel, who may not quite be qualified to be.
• 1:15:25
  Babysitting here. He definitely has a price.
• 1:15:27
  He's the $1,000,000 man. He can be bought he.
• 1:15:30
  Can be bought for sure we're. About to have a Turkle party.
• 1:15:34
  What I like about it is a bit of a misdirection because we have a
• 1:15:38
  lot of high jinx booze coming in, Candy's back for another go
• 1:15:42
  round and we see another nurse come in and and Scatman is
• 1:15:47
  scared. But I like the cover.
• 1:15:51
  I got a woman. And it gets so lonely in here.
• 1:15:53
  He says there's a way to, like, dismiss all the other hijinks
• 1:15:56
  that's going on with just this one.
• 1:15:58
  Like, she goes out, grabs her shirt and that's it.
• 1:16:01
  Oh, oh, oh, that's what it is. Get her out of here.
• 1:16:04
  We're going to leave. And I'm like, OK, now it's on
• 1:16:06
  because, you know, she's not coming back.
• 1:16:08
  I would say this is a bit of a tough sell to this actually
• 1:16:11
  being possible of happening. Oh, OK.
• 1:16:14
  I mean, I've been casual. I've been, I've been pretty
• 1:16:16
  lenient with the security up until now.
• 1:16:20
  For example, would you have a phone right there that would
• 1:16:22
  actually make calls outside of the building because he calls
• 1:16:25
  candy? Sure, get a car, steal it if you
• 1:16:27
  have to 100. Percent.
• 1:16:29
  OK, That's real. That's real.
• 1:16:30
  OK. When I was there in 78, yeah, it
• 1:16:34
  was there. It was there.
• 1:16:35
  So I got to assume it was there in 70.
• 1:16:37
  Five Anyways, I mean, obviously this needs to happen for the
• 1:16:40
  movie, and I guess Terkel's just trusting too much and to.
• 1:16:47
  Self-serving. He wants his booze, he wants his
• 1:16:48
  like, oh, you know you're not good.
• 1:16:49
  We're not just going to share the booze.
• 1:16:51
  He wants the woman too. Yeah, he's a he's a he's a horn.
• 1:16:54
  I tell you he's he's a scat man. He's a.
• 1:16:57
  Scat man, He's a scat man. It leads to basically like an
• 1:17:01
  all out party. Everybody's kind of getting
• 1:17:03
  drunk. The whiskey's going wild and
• 1:17:06
  great recipe because we know it's it's the end, right?
• 1:17:09
  Mcmurphy is like, this is my going away party basically, and
• 1:17:13
  they're ready to go and Billy pipes up.
• 1:17:16
  Yeah, Billy, This is the main reason why I don't like Billy.
• 1:17:19
  He kind of ruins everything. He literally ruins everything,
• 1:17:23
  sort of. Yeah, and he's such a bitch, you
• 1:17:27
  know? And he's all upset that he's
• 1:17:29
  leaving. He's all whining like a bitch.
• 1:17:32
  And then he eludes to wanting a date with Candy.
• 1:17:36
  Yes, and this is a fatal mistake for Mcmurphy to agree to allow
• 1:17:42
  him a night with candy to have an experience.
• 1:17:45
  Like, it's nice of him, don't get me wrong, but it's not a
• 1:17:48
  good idea. Billy is not going to get this
• 1:17:50
  experience any other way. And he already said at the
• 1:17:52
  beginning, you're 17, dude, you got to be getting Chasing
• 1:17:55
  Beaver, as they said, right? I think there's there's a
• 1:17:58
  logical part that that says magnanimous nature that says
• 1:18:03
  here Billy, I if I don't do this, no one will.
• 1:18:05
  Is that self-serving though? To Mcmurphy, No, exactly.
• 1:18:09
  This is character's changed, right?
• 1:18:10
  He's taking. It out on the well, that's my
• 1:18:12
  point. Yeah, but he pays for it.
• 1:18:15
  Ultimately, So he finally does something that's arguably
• 1:18:18
  selfless, yes. And it well.
• 1:18:20
  Now, you know, Yeah, speaking about that, it's been at least
• 1:18:23
  20 years since I saw the movie. And one of the things I found
• 1:18:26
  myself being so engaged in what I was watching that I didn't get
• 1:18:32
  the frustration or anything when Billy goes into the room that
• 1:18:38
  didn't, like, tip me off like, oh, this is a problem.
• 1:18:41
  But the camera's choice to stay on Mcmurphy and he sits in the
• 1:18:46
  chair and there's like 45 seconds of Mcmurphy's face.
• 1:18:50
  Didn't see it, I was on my phone.
• 1:18:53
  Where he basically is sitting in the chair waiting for Billy to
• 1:18:56
  wrap up. He says to candy like or two
• 1:18:58
  won't take long. Like this won't take long, don't
• 1:19:00
  worry, like we'll go after. And he sits in the chair and he
• 1:19:03
  kind of watch his face. He goes through a couple of
• 1:19:06
  different things. I know that face.
• 1:19:07
  Relaxing, curious, questioning, and then finally closes his
• 1:19:14
  eyes. You over thought that he's drank
• 1:19:16
  too much. Eventually he passes out.
• 1:19:17
  OK, there it is. I watched it the second time.
• 1:19:19
  Like, I saw the phases of like, OK, I get this.
• 1:19:22
  He's losing it. Yeah.
• 1:19:23
  But watching him close his eyes, that is a moment where I am like
• 1:19:27
  screaming at the TV. Let me tell you something that's
• 1:19:30
  happened to me. Yeah, in a situation where you
• 1:19:33
  would have the exact same reaction.
• 1:19:35
  Really like Dave? No.
• 1:19:37
  Yeah, 2008 I have threesome. Okay, my girlfriend at the time
• 1:19:43
  experimenting with this good looking women.
• 1:19:45
  Sure, No doubt we're all together.
• 1:19:47
  I drank too much. I passed out.
• 1:19:50
  Oh, my God. Missed the whole thing.
• 1:19:51
  Oh, my God. Missed the whole thing.
• 1:19:53
  Oh, my God. This movie really drudged that
• 1:19:55
  up for me. So I completely bought into
• 1:19:57
  this. I'm like, yeah, there it is.
• 1:19:59
  Yeah, You slept. All the plans.
• 1:20:01
  You had all things good. All laid out.
• 1:20:03
  Had the escape. And then the hard cut, bright
• 1:20:06
  eyed morning windows wide open and everybody is still there.
• 1:20:11
  Everybody's accounted for except except Billy.
• 1:20:13
  Except Billy. Yeah.
• 1:20:14
  Now that scene just gutted me. I'm sort of here, buddy.
• 1:20:18
  I got them back. I got the guts.
• 1:20:19
  Back. Oh, did you?
• 1:20:20
  Wonderful. I'm very curious, though, at
• 1:20:22
  this point, Phillip, is how they're really going to finish
• 1:20:26
  off this movie. Like I'm thinking, are we
• 1:20:28
  looking at a happy ending? Like, I don't know.
• 1:20:30
  I have no idea. But this is where my wheels in
• 1:20:33
  my head are starting to think, OK, I know it's getting time to
• 1:20:37
  wrap up and I don't really know how they're going to do it.
• 1:20:39
  And that sometimes can be a problem.
• 1:20:41
  Totally. The story is ultimately
• 1:20:42
  ratcheting up for sure. And coincidentally, Nurse
• 1:20:46
  Ratchet shows up. Get the nice metaphor.
• 1:20:48
  You know this is a subtle thing. Maybe not so subtle depending on
• 1:20:52
  your approach, but when she gets and sees the debauchery that
• 1:20:57
  occurred and she asked Martini for my cap.
• 1:21:01
  My. Cap and she says in such a way
• 1:21:03
  that is so ratchet, ratchet. But when she picks it up, it's
• 1:21:09
  all sullied and dirty. It is.
• 1:21:11
  And that's your metaphor right there, right is it when you meet
• 1:21:13
  her at the beginning of the movie, everything is pristine.
• 1:21:16
  It's white. Everything's structured and
• 1:21:18
  orderly and simple, and that's the way of her world.
• 1:21:23
  And Mcmurphy's coming in and soiled what was once Christine.
• 1:21:28
  And the cap is the reference of that as the representation.
• 1:21:30
  We did establish last week or the week before that you're a
• 1:21:34
  digger. I do dig.
• 1:21:36
  And that's a bit of a dig, but I think you might be right.
• 1:21:38
  Yeah, maybe. I think so.
• 1:21:40
  It's to me like a pretty heavy-handed metaphor, but I
• 1:21:42
  think it works very well. And right over my head.
• 1:21:45
  There you go. So we have an opportunity to
• 1:21:48
  meet Billy and Candy. Yeah, Billy, I don't think he
• 1:21:51
  had to rush out so quickly. Put on your pants.
• 1:21:54
  Yeah, but he has to run out and put on his pants at the same
• 1:21:57
  time. Doesn't often work well.
• 1:21:59
  No, no, he did pretty good. He.
• 1:22:01
  Did OK, felt good. For himself, he did.
• 1:22:02
  I don't want to let that slide, but got him up.
• 1:22:06
  Now it's him and Nurse Ratchet. Yes, she's obviously very
• 1:22:11
  disappointed at him. Totally.
• 1:22:12
  And this is really where we establish her domineerance.
• 1:22:17
  Can we make that a word just for this just.
• 1:22:19
  For now, yeah, we've got a Dave Dictionary.
• 1:22:21
  Happening I think it's getting pretty thick we'll.
• 1:22:23
  Throw it in. There, it's getting very thick.
• 1:22:25
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:22:26
  And she plays the mother card again and uses the word ashamed.
• 1:22:30
  Yeah. What's wonderful is that there's
• 1:22:32
  nothing wonderful about this. She asks him and he.
• 1:22:35
  Says without a stutter and with some authority.
• 1:22:37
  Exactly. Stutter's gone.
• 1:22:39
  Yeah, yeah, it's been edited out.
• 1:22:40
  It's gone. So the ability to say the
• 1:22:45
  strength, let's say, for Billy to have and sort of stand up to
• 1:22:47
  Ratchet in this moment briefly. And that's how you know it's
• 1:22:50
  fucked up that that this relationship is fucked up.
• 1:22:52
  And that's how how terrible she is because there's a brief
• 1:22:56
  moment where he gets to be a human and she immediately goes
• 1:23:00
  to the mom card and there's the stutter again and it goes right
• 1:23:03
  back full on. No, no, you don't right.
• 1:23:05
  Like it's like so prominent and devastating to the story, to the
• 1:23:10
  character. Exactly.
• 1:23:11
  And it's beautiful and it's pain in a weird way.
• 1:23:15
  It's so great. He goes from being on top of the
• 1:23:18
  world in a sense, Yep, to having absolutely 0 self esteem again
• 1:23:22
  and starts beating himself up, right?
• 1:23:23
  Like he's like slapping himself and like, no.
• 1:23:25
  And she says go and lock him up in the room because she'll deal
• 1:23:27
  with him later kind of thing. No, she won't.
• 1:23:30
  And no, he deals with it himself.
• 1:23:32
  Yeah. And.
• 1:23:34
  Mike Murphy gets his second chance and he's fumbling for the
• 1:23:36
  keys. Someone's going to catch him.
• 1:23:38
  There's like 8 keys on there. Yeah, no, if you notice the
• 1:23:40
  first time he gets the the right key right away.
• 1:23:44
  Now, if you look at it, he's not even putting it in the right
• 1:23:46
  way. He's putting it in like
• 1:23:48
  sideways. So it doesn't even matter if
• 1:23:50
  it's the right key or not. It's not going to fit because
• 1:23:53
  yeah, hello. Sure.
• 1:23:54
  So that's, that's under a lot of that's, that's just, that's poor
• 1:23:57
  direction. It's what I would say.
• 1:23:59
  With the French cult. Pressure, yeah, but none the
• 1:24:02
  less there's a obviously a disturbance.
• 1:24:06
  Something's happened. Yeah, there's a moment where
• 1:24:07
  he's got the window open, which again, I didn't expect.
• 1:24:09
  I kind of thought he would get stopped midway.
• 1:24:11
  But we hear a scream and an extreme and Mcmurphy has to make
• 1:24:15
  the choice. He's got Rose on the other side
• 1:24:18
  saying. Come on, let's go.
• 1:24:19
  Get the car. Look, I'm ready to go.
• 1:24:22
  And he can't handle it. He's got to go see Billy.
• 1:24:24
  Curiosity killed Mcmurphy in the end, so we see him witness
• 1:24:29
  Billy. He's killed himself with the
• 1:24:31
  glass, and it kind of culminates in this sort of big dramatic
• 1:24:37
  assault. Where you're at with this moment
• 1:24:39
  here? Are you asking me if I agree
• 1:24:41
  with his reaction? Yes.
• 1:24:42
  Would I do this? Justified.
• 1:24:44
  Yes and no. For someone who can't resist
• 1:24:48
  giving in to that feeling, that's your action of I know
• 1:24:52
  what you're doing. I've known it for a while now.
• 1:24:55
  It's gotten to the point where I simply just can't stand by and
• 1:24:58
  watch it. I'm so angry to what you've
• 1:25:00
  done. There's no casualties, right?
• 1:25:02
  Yeah. I've now grown to maybe like
• 1:25:04
  these people. Obviously, what he did for
• 1:25:06
  Billy, he clearly likes them to a certain extent.
• 1:25:09
  And that scene is up there with the shock therapy to looking
• 1:25:13
  very real. Yeah.
• 1:25:15
  But that's that's the best strangulation scene I've ever
• 1:25:18
  seen. Not that I've seen a lot.
• 1:25:20
  Sure, there might have been one in one of the Halloween's.
• 1:25:22
  Maybe. Yeah.
• 1:25:23
  But I I was really impressed. And at that point, I'm not sure
• 1:25:26
  if she's living or not. Yeah.
• 1:25:28
  Again, I don't know how they're wrapping this up.
• 1:25:30
  I have an idea how what they maybe should have done, but I
• 1:25:33
  really don't know what they're going to do.
• 1:25:35
  Yeah, it's it's a real powerful moment because again, I think,
• 1:25:38
  as I was saying, when he closed his eyes, I was like, no, like
• 1:25:41
  I'm so on on Mcmurphy's side here that when that happens and
• 1:25:45
  when he goes and he finally assaults her and starts choking
• 1:25:48
  her, there's a part of me that's like, yeah, get her, you know,
• 1:25:52
  because she did this. The other part is no, because
• 1:25:55
  then you're going to be here forever or worse.
• 1:25:58
  Or which is worse? And so there's this, like I'm so
• 1:26:01
  on his side, but at the same time, you just know it's like
• 1:26:04
  you're, you're signing yourself over here because you're all in.
• 1:26:08
  Yeah. Like at that point, even if she
• 1:26:10
  lives. He's fucked if she dies.
• 1:26:13
  That's life in prison. Yeah.
• 1:26:14
  Especially in 1963. Yes, exactly.
• 1:26:18
  Or, well, we'll get to the ore and just just a moment.
• 1:26:22
  That's right. Because she lives.
• 1:26:23
  Yeah, there's consequences, Yeah, and he lives his life as
• 1:26:26
  though it's consequence free. But it's consistently shown
• 1:26:29
  throughout the movie His actions have consequences, yet he
• 1:26:33
  continues to operate on the right.
• 1:26:35
  There's like pure emotion, pure adrenaline.
• 1:26:37
  I'm gonna kill this chick. That's his style.
• 1:26:39
  And I mean. That's what got him in trouble
• 1:26:41
  in the first place. Right, that's it exactly.
• 1:26:42
  So she's true to his character. All the way to the.
• 1:26:45
  End all the way to the end. And ultimately, it kind of cuts
• 1:26:48
  back pretty abruptly from the choking scene to cards parting
• 1:26:55
  in the game. We're right back to what it was
• 1:26:57
  at the beginning, the way the music is playing.
• 1:27:01
  Correct. I love when they do this in
• 1:27:02
  movies because they nail it so well to give us the impression,
• 1:27:06
  like, everything back to the back to way it was initially.
• 1:27:09
  Yeah. Reset the clock.
• 1:27:10
  Other than the neck brace, that's it.
• 1:27:12
  That's the only difference. Yep.
• 1:27:14
  She wears it well, I'll give her that.
• 1:27:16
  Yeah. Absolutely.
• 1:27:17
  Yeah. And she kind of makes the joke,
• 1:27:18
  like, you're feeling better, like she's playing it as though
• 1:27:21
  that looks great. Like again, right back to her.
• 1:27:24
  I would say it almost humbled her a bit that she's maybe
• 1:27:26
  brought it down a notch temporarily, but she'll get
• 1:27:30
  right back up in a couple weeks to where she was before.
• 1:27:33
  Just a temporary set back for her.
• 1:27:35
  Yeah, maybe I I again. Again for manipulative.
• 1:27:38
  Reasons, right? Giving them sympathy.
• 1:27:40
  Get a little. Exactly, buddy.
• 1:27:41
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:27:42
  And we hear some conversation around this point about how
• 1:27:44
  Mcmurphy's escape. He's out, took out two guards.
• 1:27:47
  That's it. They tried to transfer him to
• 1:27:48
  the 4th floor and then he said not having it.
• 1:27:50
  Rumors. Harding's like, no, he's
• 1:27:52
  upstairs. Something is a lamb.
• 1:27:54
  Yeah. Mika's a lamb.
• 1:27:55
  Is a lamb, Yeah. And everyone goes down for the
• 1:27:58
  night to sleep, and that's when they decide to bring Mcmurphy
• 1:28:01
  in. And Mcmurphy's looking very
• 1:28:03
  similar to what he looked like when he was playing around.
• 1:28:06
  Mine's the wink. That's it.
• 1:28:08
  And that's what's the real deal. That's what's such a devastating
• 1:28:11
  moment to me. And Chief is excited, right?
• 1:28:13
  He's like, I knew you wouldn't go without me.
• 1:28:15
  He runs over like he knows what's up.
• 1:28:17
  And watching Mcmurphy now be silenced, lobotomized and
• 1:28:22
  lobotomized is what we find out is that.
• 1:28:23
  The two scars on the top of his head.
• 1:28:25
  His hair is shaved back. So at this point, we've
• 1:28:27
  established it's not looking great.
• 1:28:29
  What are your thoughts on what's kind of transpiring here?
• 1:28:33
  My first watch, I didn't understand why Chief decided to
• 1:28:38
  end him. Yeah, OK.
• 1:28:39
  I thought maybe we're just discovering to why he's there in
• 1:28:42
  the 1st place. Why Chief is there in the 1st
• 1:28:45
  place. OK, going back to his nature, he
• 1:28:47
  might be prone to doing something like this.
• 1:28:49
  So that's maybe that's why he's here.
• 1:28:51
  So I I didn't get it. I didn't understand why he would
• 1:28:54
  do that. Reading a little bit about it,
• 1:28:56
  watching of the second time, I sort of see his intentions said,
• 1:28:59
  well, you can't function. Let me do you this favor and
• 1:29:03
  take you out. I get it.
• 1:29:05
  I don't love the ending of this movie, to be perfectly honest
• 1:29:07
  with you, but I understand why he did what he did.
• 1:29:11
  OK, so I'm kind of split in that sense.
• 1:29:13
  It's classic Dave. I I think the end is incredible.
• 1:29:17
  I because the idea is obviously make Murphy.
• 1:29:21
  Would rather die than to be what he is.
• 1:29:23
  Yeah, I get. I get.
• 1:29:24
  That and so for me like to kind of fulfill that promise Chief
• 1:29:28
  kind of makes him and then showing the strength that
• 1:29:32
  Mcmurphy didn't have Oh for the sink for the stick that.
• 1:29:36
  Out. Oh, we knew that was coming a
• 1:29:37
  mile away. 100% and then to be sort of the Freeman.
• 1:29:39
  I was like Jaws. Too predictable.
• 1:29:42
  And Mcmurphy couldn't be. And saying, like I said, I'm
• 1:29:44
  taking you with me. There's a power in that
• 1:29:46
  relationship that I think is just like a perfectly poetic way
• 1:29:50
  to end the movie. And I found myself obviously
• 1:29:52
  saddened by, as I said, I was very much on on Mcmurphy's side.
• 1:29:56
  So you're impact by his death? Yeah, I thought it was.
• 1:29:58
  He's a hero. Oh, God, you're doing this
• 1:30:00
  right. Like.
• 1:30:01
  And what a bleak way to end it. We talk about all that jazz
• 1:30:03
  which ends in a body bag and the devil knows you're dead when
• 1:30:08
  Albert Finney smothers Philip Seymour Hoffman in bed.
• 1:30:11
  I've got a history of picking these movies where someone just.
• 1:30:13
  There's been some smothering. But I, I just think it's, it's
• 1:30:17
  such an appropriate way to end it, as sad as it is.
• 1:30:19
  But Chief, being free, there's a certain excitement that comes
• 1:30:22
  with that. I just think it's it's pitch
• 1:30:24
  perfect. I didn't like it.
• 1:30:27
  I did not like the ending. Now I understand we cannot have
• 1:30:30
  a happy ending. No, I don't think you've been
• 1:30:32
  set up for that. Yeah.
• 1:30:33
  No, no. So that I completely get and
• 1:30:35
  this is where I kind of alluded to earlier, what?
• 1:30:37
  Talk to me. I thought might have been a
• 1:30:38
  better ending and I haven't really drawn it out and have a
• 1:30:41
  storyboarded or anything long, but I think what might have been
• 1:30:46
  interesting is we find out that all this time Mcmurphy is crazy
• 1:30:52
  and that what we've seen isn't necessarily reality.
• 1:30:56
  OK, interesting. We just see it maybe through his
• 1:30:58
  lens, OK. But there's some reveal
• 1:31:00
  somewhere that. Something that says, OK, a lot
• 1:31:02
  of what you've seen actually maybe didn't happen.
• 1:31:04
  OK, so I, I thought manipulating us as an audience might have
• 1:31:09
  been a more interesting way to finish.
• 1:31:11
  OK, For me, the the ending fell a little bit flat.
• 1:31:13
  OK, interesting. I don't know.
• 1:31:15
  I didn't have that impact of a character dying that I'm I'm
• 1:31:18
  sort of rooting for that. I've obviously like generally,
• 1:31:22
  you know, you know me, I need to cheer.
• 1:31:24
  I'm not cheering. I'm not cheering for Nurse
• 1:31:25
  Ratchet, No, although she is mesmerizing.
• 1:31:28
  Yes, very captivating. But I just, I just, I didn't
• 1:31:32
  think with it just didn't work for me.
• 1:31:34
  OK, well hearing that, let's get your final opinion on the movie
• 1:31:37
  itself because I think you know, the ending we've talked about
• 1:31:39
  many times can, can, it can can shape an opinion.
• 1:31:42
  So what are your kind of overall thoughts of the movie in its
• 1:31:44
  totality and how it relates to the ending that you were maybe
• 1:31:47
  mid range on? It only brings it down like a
• 1:31:49
  little notch because there's so much to like about the 1st 40
• 1:31:53
  minutes of the movie. So it's not enough for me to say
• 1:31:57
  the movie credibility. Yeah, 100%, yeah.
• 1:32:00
  And ultimately, killing that character makes sense.
• 1:32:02
  Yeah. I'm not saying it doesn't make
• 1:32:03
  sense. I just found I didn't find a
• 1:32:05
  very interesting. OK, Chief, getting away and
• 1:32:08
  leaving it as the final moment there wasn't like a hurrah for
• 1:32:11
  me. OK.
• 1:32:12
  And sometimes I want to hurrah. Or if I don't get hurrah, I want
• 1:32:16
  to feel some emotion where it has me, you know, leading
• 1:32:19
  towards tears. Yeah.
• 1:32:20
  And it didn't take me in either of those two directions.
• 1:32:23
  It kind of just left me in the middle of like, OK, well, that
• 1:32:26
  happened. OK.
• 1:32:27
  Yeah. Interesting.
• 1:32:28
  But overall, in movie, I didn't think I'd want to watch it
• 1:32:31
  again. Yeah.
• 1:32:32
  And when I start to watch it again, I think I might have said
• 1:32:34
  this earlier. I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, I'm.
• 1:32:36
  I'm in this. This is this is fun to watch
• 1:32:38
  because of the performances and the dialogue.
• 1:32:41
  Like it's, it's well written. The plot's a little bit thin,
• 1:32:44
  but it's unique. Yeah.
• 1:32:45
  Like, I don't, I've never watched a movie like this.
• 1:32:48
  Sure. So I where like, not much is
• 1:32:49
  happening, but everything is happening Exactly.
• 1:32:51
  So I give it points for that. So All in all, is it a classic?
• 1:32:54
  Is it a masterpiece? Worth the five Oscars you think?
• 1:32:58
  I'll let you decide, Phillip, but talk to me after being away
• 1:33:02
  from it for like 20 odd years, even though it's an even number.
• 1:33:06
  How did you feel about watching it now?
• 1:33:08
  Are your experiences in line? More or less.
• 1:33:12
  I would say probably close to in line.
• 1:33:14
  I remember watching it the first time.
• 1:33:16
  I was blown away by it. And because it's been so long, I
• 1:33:19
  was blown away. I kind of knew this movie by its
• 1:33:22
  reputation. 5 Oscars, classic 70s film beating Jaws and Dog
• 1:33:28
  Day Afternoon for the Oscars. There's a lot of that context
• 1:33:31
  for it. And I've seen it less often than
• 1:33:33
  I've seen Dog Day and Jaws. But I thought so much about the
• 1:33:37
  characters and the performances in the right and like you're
• 1:33:39
  saying, is so engaging and grossing and impressive that I I
• 1:33:44
  was with it from the minute 1. And so when it finally ends,
• 1:33:47
  it's like it's the gut punch of knowing it's going to happen but
• 1:33:50
  not sure that they're going to do it.
• 1:33:52
  Oh, my God, they're really doing it.
• 1:33:54
  I found myself on that journey, the gut punch journey.
• 1:33:57
  Yeah, I read that somewhere. Yeah.
• 1:33:59
  The gut punch. It's it's there.
• 1:34:00
  Homer wrote, I think. But yeah.
• 1:34:02
  So it's going from Billy and the I Sleep building up to what is
• 1:34:06
  the finale is to me very devastating and also kind of
• 1:34:09
  exciting filmmaking. I was happy, Billy.
• 1:34:11
  I was done. Yeah, I knew that by the
• 1:34:14
  beginning. I was like, I see where this is
• 1:34:15
  going, but I I'm blown away. But I think it's incredible.
• 1:34:20
  Perfect, you know, questionable, I suppose, but the.
• 1:34:23
  Security. It's in the pantheon for a
• 1:34:25
  reason. Those five Oscars, even though
• 1:34:27
  they beat Jaws of the Beat, Dog Day, there's, you know, whatever
• 1:34:29
  else. Barry Lyndon, even.
• 1:34:30
  It's like a movie that survived the 70s.
• 1:34:32
  You know, you hear about a handful of movies from the 70s,
• 1:34:35
  like there's like 5-6 hundred movies from the 70s, but there's
• 1:34:39
  like 10 or 11 or 12 that really seem to have been able to stick
• 1:34:42
  around and still be a part of everyday conversations.
• 1:34:46
  And I mean, things like showing up in The Simpsons or something
• 1:34:48
  in the guy zeitgeist or the terminology or you know, things
• 1:34:50
  like that. These are all.
• 1:34:52
  Thing so. Little Dab will do.
• 1:34:54
  Yeah, I mean. That's right.
• 1:34:55
  Exactly. So, yeah, it's an incredible
• 1:34:56
  movie. I think that it holds up really
• 1:34:58
  well for something that is 50 years old.
• 1:35:00
  That's A to, to me, the true test of anything, right, That
• 1:35:02
  you could talk about a 50 years later and have it relevant and
• 1:35:04
  have it mean something. So it's great.
• 1:35:06
  I'm so happy that I we were able to watch it and you went along
• 1:35:10
  the journey with me. So solid 7 is what you're
• 1:35:13
  saying? Solid 7.
• 1:35:16
  And certainly as an audience, I do appreciate everyone joining
• 1:35:19
  us this week. As always, please join us on the
• 1:35:21
  Facebook page. You can like the podcast rated
• 1:35:24
  five stars, subscribe to never miss an episode and of course,
• 1:35:27
  share it with any inmates with you on the ward as you can.
• 1:35:31
  Call them inmates. Funny point.
• 1:35:33
  This movie was more of a prison than a hospital.
• 1:35:36
  There it is. Think about that.
• 1:35:37
  Think about the notes about it. Talk to you next week.
• 1:35:41
  Bye bye.