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“Cheney Reaction.” · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: On today's pod, Republicans purge Liz Cheney, then meet with
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Joe Biden. Tucker Carlson goes on an anti-vax crusade. And
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: a look at this year's Virginia gubernatorial race, including Dan's
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: interview with one of the Democratic candidates, Jennifer Carroll Foy.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: But first, check out the latest episode of Pod Save
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: the World, where Tommy and Ben talk to Palestinian journalist
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: Rula Jabril about the escalating tensions in Israel and Gaza.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: All right, let's get to the news. House Republican leader
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy had a banner day on Wednesday, Dan. He
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: woke up, went to work. overthrew Liz Cheney because she
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: believes Joe Biden is the legitimate winner of the 2020 election,
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: went to the White House, talked to Joe Biden for
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: 90 minutes about infrastructure, walked out of the White House,
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: got a question about the big lie, and then said this.
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: But I don't think anybody is questioning the legitimacy of
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: the presidential election.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: I think that is all over with. We're sitting here
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: with the president today.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: No, of course not. Why would anyone think that? Here's
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: another clip.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: And President Trump won this election.
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: So everyone who's listening, you believe in every legal vote
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: needs to count.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: You believe in the American process. Join together and let's
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: stop this.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: So I think we've said everything there is to say
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: about the Cheney cancellation. But I have gotten a bunch
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: of questions from people about what comes next for the
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: Never Trump movement. Liz Cheney hasn't ruled out a presidential bid.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: More than 100 Republican officials also released a letter this
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: morning threatening to form a third party. That's right. It's
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: a letter. They released a letter, Dan. Strongly worded at that.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: So you think this is the end for the GOP?
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: I mean, I don't even know what to say at
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: this point. If you haven't left the Republican Party yet,
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: what is stopping you? We live in a two-party system.
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: For better or for worse, it is clearly for worse
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: when one of those parties goes off the deep end.
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: But the only way to stop the authoritarian march in
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: the Republican Party is not to write a letter, a
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: letter organized by Anonymous, if I remember correctly.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. Miles Taylor organized the letter.
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: The way to stop the Republican Party is to help
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: the Democrats beat the Republican Party so fucking bad they
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: have no other choice other than to change what they
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: are doing and abandon Trumpism. but they are not going
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: to change because people who already don't like them keep
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: reiterating that in media outlets, not read or trusted by
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: Republican voters. So come on people get on board.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: Like Liz Cheney has like all of the least popular
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: policy positions. She's like a neocon who loves tax cuts.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: And she now doesn't like Donald Trump. There's, There's nothing
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: in the Republican base that loves anything about Liz Cheney
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: or a lot of the never Trumpers. And look, I
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: appreciate what a lot of the never Trumpers are trying
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: to do. I appreciate that they have risked their careers
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: to to try to do anything to stop Donald Trump.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: But they have no constituency. They have no constituency. Their
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: constituency is like like. resistance accounts and some panelists on MSNBC.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: I'm just sorry. There is no constituency within the Republican
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: Party for some anti-Trump movement. We've known this for a
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: while now. So when everyone's like, oh, it's a huge... Look,
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: it is a huge deal that they ousted Cheney, but
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: it doesn't mean that Cheney suddenly has more power to
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: shape the Republican Party. I just don't see any evidence
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: of that.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: Well, I guess.
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: It says a lot about how sort of Washington DC
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: media works that the ousting of Cheney was the moment
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: that so many of them are like, oh, these people
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: are seriously nuts.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: They really don't need democracy.
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: It wasn't the millions of people who were being disenfranchised
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: all across the country or all the other things they said.
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: It was when the daughter of a vice president from
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: the most establishment Republican family other than the Bushes gets tossed.
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: They're like, oh, this could affect us, right? It was
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: sort of like when Ron DeSantis signed his voter suppression
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: bill only on Fox and Friends and all the reporters
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: were like, oh, the anti-democracy thing is bad for me too.
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: So we haven't gotten that. Now, the one thing I
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: would say about Liz Cheney is not going to be
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: president of the United States. She is not going to
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: win the Republican nomination. She's not going to win the
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: Democratic nomination. I do wonder if there were, if Trump
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: were to run again, If there were a– if she
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: were to run as an independent, whether that would actually
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: be helpful in defeating Trumpism, much in the way in
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: which a third-party candidates who align themselves essentially against Hillary
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: Clinton became a place for people to go who were
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: uncomfortable with her and Trump. And so I think that's
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: just something to think about in 2024 is that an
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: independent bid, because of the way these things work, it's
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: very possible that there could be a similar uptick in
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: third party voting. And that could make a difference.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: Either way, right?
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: You could have a problem on our side too.
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: And I will say, to be fair, because I was
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: just saying, I haven't seen much evidence. There was one
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: piece of evidence. Axios released a focus group with about
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: 14 people who voted for Trump in 2016 and then
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: voted for Biden in 2020, nine of which said they
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: would consider voting for a Republican in 2022 midterm. So
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: nine Biden voters from 2020 who say they might vote
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: for a Republican in the midterm should be a flag
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: for all of us. But all of them but one,
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: I think, said that they strongly disagreed with the Republican
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: Party purging Cheney. They think it was bad. They think
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: it makes them followers. They think it makes them just
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: like followers of Trump with no mind of their own.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: So I don't think it was– it wasn't approved by
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: at least some Republicans, some swingy Republicans. But is that–
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: like are they going to remember that in 2022? Is
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: that going to be enough to make sure they vote
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: for Democrats? I am doubtful, but of course we'll see
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: how this unfolds.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: Well, no, no. Let's be sure.
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: No one is going to remember this by the time
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: the 2022 election comes around.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: Oh, that I am confident about.
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: Donald Trump was impeached in early spring of 2020 and
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: no one remembered it when he went to the polls.
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: So I don't think the ousting of a member– who
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: most people have never heard of in a job most
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: people have never heard of, is going to make a
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: huge difference in 2022. But it's more what it says
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: about the Republican Party and the other things they're going
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: to do because of this.
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: Because what it really is.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: Is a way- I guess what I mean is like,
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: will the ongoing radicalization of the Republican Party have an
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: effect on the 2022 terms?
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: And the thing we should all be scared about is
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: essentially what they did is they put Liz Cheney's head
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: on a pike as a message to all other Republicans
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: that you either get on board with election theft or
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: you get purged. And so that's the thing that is
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: the most scary.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: I thought the most telling statement yesterday was from a
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: Republican congressman from Florida, Representative Byron Donalds. He said, if
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: you had a member of the Democratic leadership and said
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: they didn't believe in climate change anymore, do you think
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: they would still remain in Democratic leadership? I don't think so. Checkmate,
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: Congressman Donalds. You got us. It's so telling because it's like,
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: for them, what's most important is that the rank and
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: file says the same thing and believes the same thing
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: as the leadership, even though it's patently false. They don't
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: understand that his analogy, like if a Democrat didn't believe
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: in climate change, we wouldn't want them in leadership because
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: they don't believe something that's true.
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: Every time there is one of these hearings or one
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: of these things happens, there's a new member of Congress,
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: Republican member of Congress that I discover that I've never
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: heard of that I find out.
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: Is also fucking nuts.
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: Like you kind of think, you know, all the, there's
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: like Louie Gohmert and Paul Gosar and you know the
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: crazy ones, but no, there's a whole other batch of
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: anonymous lunatics out there.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: I got, I got one that we found out yesterday.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: This is on the day that Liz Cheney is purged for, uh,
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: embracing the fact that Joe Biden is a legitimate president
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: and trying to speak out against Donald Trump's role in
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: inciting an insurrection. At a hearing on the January 6th
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: attack on the Capitol that happened yesterday, the same day
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: that Cheney gets purged, Republican Congressman Andrew Clyde from Georgia,
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: who is he? Never heard of him before now. He said, quote,
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: if you didn't know the TV footage was a video
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: from January the 6th, you'd actually think it was a
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: normal tourist visit.
• 8:45
  Speaker 4: Ha ha ha!
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: He thought it was a tour. Yeah, no. What I
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: saw on January 6th, that definitely looked like a tourist visit.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: Usually with tourist visits, they threaten to hang the vice
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: president and violently assault the Capitol. That is typically what
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: a tour group does.
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: Look, we've been in this pandemic for a long time.
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: People may not remember what it was like when we
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: gathered in crowds, but it.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: Wasn't like that.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: It wasn't like that. All right, let's go back to
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: Wednesday's White House meeting. Kevin McCarthy also told reporters afterwards,
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: that canceling Trump's corporate tax cuts to help pay for
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: the American jobs plan is a red line that Republicans
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: won't cross. And just minutes after the meeting ended....
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: So the meeting ends.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy walks out, you know, he says, oh, of course,
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: Joe Biden is a legitimate president. Says, oh, we had
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: a good talk for 90 minutes. He sends out a
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: fundraising text just minutes after the meeting ends that says, quote,
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: I just met with corrupt Joe Biden and he's still
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: planning to push his radical socialist agenda onto the American people.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: It sounds to me like somebody is ready to make
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: a deal. What do you think?
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: I mean, we should just ask the producers to keep
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: their eye on the ticker because it's possible infrastructure could
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: get done while we're recording.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: We are so close. Because, John, infrastructure is calling.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi tweeted something with the hashtag infrastructure is calling,
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: which is, why are we using that? What does that mean?
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: That is so many letters. Hashtags are dumb. What does
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: that mean? Anyway, how much more performative bipartisanship do you
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: think Biden has to do Before Joe Manchin and Kyrsten
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: Sinema are ready to pass this bill without Republicans.
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: I think we should stipulate that Joe Biden sincerely would
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: like a bipartisan deal. He thinks it would be good
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: for the country. He thinks it would be good for
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: the Senate and maybe foster some working relationship, some other
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: things like police reform, etc., I think he thinks it
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: would be good for him politically if he were to
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: run for election. It's like a real proof point about
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: his dealmaking and his unity message. But I don't think
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: he has any shred of naivete about the odds of it.
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: And what all this is about is getting to the point,
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: as you hinted in your question, where Kyrsten Sinema and
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: Joe Manchin can either convince themselves or feel comfortable going
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: back to their voters that they tried everything possible and
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: the Republicans wouldn't come on board. Because there's an article
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: in Politico today. There are people pushing like, just go,
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: just go, just go. Why are you doing this? The
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: reason they're doing it is they do not have 50
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: votes to do this on budget reconciliation yet. And you're
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: not going to get that until you get Joe Manchin,
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: Kyrsten Sinema. And they feel compelled for reasons that are
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: sort of befuddling to me, but I don't get a
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: vote here. to try as hard as they can at bipartisanship.
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: And then we still don't know if they'll get to yes,
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: but they're not going to get to yes before that point.
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: So this meeting had to happen. The meeting that Biden
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: is having with Republicans today has to happen. Republicans have
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: to come back with a counteroffer that is insufficient, and
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: then we can go from there.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: I also just don't know, even if everyone was doing
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: this in good faith and wanted to come to an agreement,
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: how you get to yes when Republicans have drawn a
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: red line on taxes. They will not It will not
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: support any kind of tax increases to pay for this plan.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: They want user fees to pay for the plan, again,
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: which is a tax increase on working and middle class people,
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: as opposed to taking away tax cuts for the rich.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: But anyway, so they want user fees. So let's say
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: then you say, okay, no tax hikes on the rich
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: and also no user fees. Neither side really wants to
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: add to the deficit and pass this plan without paying
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: for it, right? I mean, Biden hasn't ruled it out,
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: but he said he's resistant to that. Republicans have said
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: they don't want to add to the deficit. So how
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: else do you pass the plan? How else do you
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: come to a bipartisan agreement?
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it is not possible. And substantively, I
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: understand the political concerns, both the small board political concerns
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: within trying to get a bunch of moderate Democrats in
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: the House and the Senate to support a debt finance plan.
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: But if there was ever a time or a thing
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: to finance It's infrastructure where you pay for it now
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: and you benefit from it for decades. That would be
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: the right thing to do. I don't think that's achievable
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: with these narrow margins in the House and Senate, which
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: is why we're not doing it. The user fee Republican
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: plan is something that we should drive a truck through
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: every I know.
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: Look, I said this. I talked about this on Monday
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: with Tommy. We're talking about it today. I haven't heard
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: a lot of people, Democrats, hammer this user fee thing.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: This is like a fucking gift. Are you kidding me?
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: Joe Biden and the Democrats want to ask highly profitable
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: corporations in America's wealthiest to pay for infrastructure. The Republicans
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: want you to pay for it while protecting tax breaks
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: for corporations and billionaires.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: Come on. We don't have to poll that one. I
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: know how that's going to go.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: I'm no pollster. I'm no pollster. But I would hazard
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: a guess how that one would turn out. I was
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: wondering how, like, I know they're meeting probably right now
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: as we record Biden and Shelley Moore Capito and some
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: other Republican senators about her counteroffer. I'm guessing that they
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: pay for that by just doing some accounting tricks and
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: saying they're moving around unspent CARES money or blah, blah, blah.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: probably stuff that just adds to the deficits Republicans want
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: to pretend that it won't. So I could see some
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: kind of fuzzy math there by saying, oh, we didn't
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: add to the deficit because we used unspent funds and
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: we still didn't raise taxes. But it still seems like
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: quite a stretch.
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: Well, it's also fake because let's say that Biden and
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: Capito and these Republicans come to a deal on $ 700
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: billion in infrastructure. And we come up with some pay
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: for that everyone's fine with, whatever you do it. But
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: if you're the Republicans... I don't even understand why the
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: Republicans would do that. Because if coming right on the tail,
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: like the Biden's next plan is to pass a $ 2
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: trillion American families plan, plus all the other stuff from
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: the American jobs plan that wasn't included in the bipartisan
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: deal on a party line vote, like what is the
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: incentive for that? What the Republicans are trying to do here,
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: I think, is two things. And this is why there
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: should be a clock on this. The first is they
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: also have to show people that they are trying to
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: do something, right?
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: They cannot.
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: when the House and the Senate on the insurrectionist vote alone.
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: And so they have to look, like there's so much
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: people like the ones in the focus group you mentioned,
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: who naturally default, quite stupidly in my view, but naturally
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: default to divided government. And so they have to show
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: that they are a worthy vehicle for some sort of
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: governmental opposition to Biden. And if all you do is
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: oust Liz Cheney and do a bunch of anti-vaccination shit
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: and seem crazy, that's less likely. The second thing they're
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: trying to do is burn clock. They have a better
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: chance of winning the election, the less stuff Biden does.
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: And every day that Biden's not passing something is a
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: day that he is not going to get back. And
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: so that is why the longer they can drag out
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: these negotiations, oh, you want to meet on Wednesday, President Biden? Sorry,
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: I'm busy. Can we meet the following Wednesday? Is another
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: week where the Senate is not legislating on the Biden agenda.
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: And so this is where you have to make this
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: very tough call about when have you done enough to
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: prove to Sinema Mansion, and frankly, others, I think, that
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: you tried and it is impossible? And when have you
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: tried too long to the point that some important parts
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: of your agenda are going to fall by the wayside
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: because you ran out of time?
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: I think the only incentive for Republicans to reach a
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: bipartisan deal on infrastructure is they might think that if
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: they get a big bipartisan deal passed on infrastructure, it
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: will take the wind out of the sails of the
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: American Families Plan in the eyes of perhaps Joe Manchin
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: and Kyrsten Sinema and other moderate Democrats. And so then
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: those Democrats say, oh, we just passed a huge infrastructure
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: bill with Republicans, bipartisan win for everyone. We got some
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: of Biden's agenda passed. Are we really going to do
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: this Democrats only American families plan with all of this
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: stuff that Republicans don't like? Eh, let's keep pushing it aside.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: And so then maybe you take away that second win
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: from Biden. That might be the only, that would be
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: the argument for that.
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: I agree with that with one amendment, which is, I
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: don't think it's the American families plan they're worried about.
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: I think it's the for the People Act and the
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: John Lewis Voting Rights Act. That's what ultimately they really
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: care about is being able to create a context that
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: makes it impossible for Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema to
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: agree to some sort of filibuster reform on something like that.
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: If we pass the American Families Plan, I'm sure they
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: disagree with a lot of our principle. They'd also don't
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: want Joe Biden to have that win. That is stuff
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: that can be repealed and undone in some way, shape,
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: or form. But As we know, as we've talked about
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: 100 times, their chances of taking the House has dramatically
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: increased by failure to pass the For the People Act.
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: And if you can prove bipartisanship before then, you can
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: run out the clock, in particular on the partisan gerrymandering
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: ban in the For the People Act.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: So even if Biden and Schumer and Pelosi decide to
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: pass this thing with only Democrats, The Washington Post reported
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: this week that Biden's tax plans are making some congressional
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: Democrats nervous and that they're hearing from donors that who
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: are anxious about the political ramifications of raising taxes before
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: the midterms. The story says that Congressman Sean Maloney, who's
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: the chair of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, the DCCC,
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: has privately warned that tax plans could hurt vulnerable House
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: Democrats up for reelection in 2022. Well, if the donors
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: say so, Dan, what do you think? I know you
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: wrote a message box about this on Wednesday.
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: Yes, I think this is insane. It is truly one
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: of the craziest things I've ever heard. To give the
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: benefit of the doubt to Congressman Mulaney, this is an
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: anonymous report. He hasn't said this publicly. We don't know
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: what all of the reasoning is. I have no doubt
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: that a lot of moderate Democrats have told the DCCC this.
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: They've told Nancy Pelosi this. They believe this. We know
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: this because they consistently unburden themselves anonymously to Politico and
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: Axios and other people.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: Always helpful. Always helpful. Never stops being helpful.
• 19:01
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: And As we always say, develop an inner monologue, people.
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: But every bit of common sense and every bit of
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: polling says that if Democrats were to walk away from
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: a big fight over raising the corporate tax rate and
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: raising taxes on people who make over $ 400, 000, we'd be
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: walking away from probably our single best message for holding
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: on to the majority that is available to us. It
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: would be a historic case of self-sabotage were we to
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: do that. I want to give just one poll number
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: on this, and I know we have some other polling
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: to talk about in a second. But in an April
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: poll from Navigator, which is a Democratic polling consortium that
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: does a lot of really good work, the Biden plan
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: to raise taxes on people making over $ 400, 000 a year
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: is supported by a majority of Republicans who make under $ 50, 000
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: a year. And so we talk about this a lot,
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: but a huge strategic imperative for the Democrats is to
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: drive a wedge in the Republican coalition by showing their
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: working class voters that the pro-corporation, pro-Wall Street, and being
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: paid for by the working class. And so here we
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: have a policy that is supported by a majority of
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: working class Republican voters, and walking away from it would
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: be just a gigantic mistake.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: I don't understand it. Yeah, we have brand new polling
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: with our friends at Data for Progress. We just conducted
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: an exclusive poll on this very topic. You can find
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: it on Crooked.com right now. Go take a look. We
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: wanted to test the American Jobs Plan and the American
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: Families Plan, which are both wildly popular in this poll,
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: between 60% and 70% support, depending on how you frame it.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: But then we asked people, no poll has done this yet,
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: we asked people to pick the three provisions that they
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: think are most important to include in the final bill
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: out of all the many provisions in the American Families
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: Plan and the American Jobs Plan. And so we wanted
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: to know what people found most important, what they liked
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: the most. Here's what topped the list. lower the cost
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: of healthcare premiums, lower the cost of prescription drugs, repair roads, bridges,
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: and highways, clean water, so lead pipes, and very popular,
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: reform corporate taxes to remove loopholes and ensure corporations pay
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: their fair share. That was the number three most important priority,
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: not just for Democratic voters, but for independents and Republicans.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: Here's what I don't understand, Dan. The DCCC, they hire
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: all these Democratic consultants. They hire all these Democratic pollsters.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: It's not like they're looking at completely different polling. Where
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: are they getting this from? To me, I wonder if
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: it's not what they're scared of, what these moderate members
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: are scared of, and some of these consultants and pollsters
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: are not the message that Democrats want to raise taxes
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: on the rich and Republicans want to raise taxes on you.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: but that they're afraid of the Republican lie about our message,
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: which is that Joe Biden wants to raise everyone's taxes.
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's probably right. That lie is coming,
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: whether we pass the corporate tax cut or not.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: Of course, yeah.
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: It is very easy to trick yourself into saying Republicans
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: lie so we can do whatever we want. There are
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: no political consequences for that, and that is simply not true.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: We have learned that that is not true in the
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: last election, yes. Yes.
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: But the importance of the corporate tax pay for here
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: is you need to be able to tell a story
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: about why Republicans oppose something that voters assume everyone supports.
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: And this is the trap Republicans have walked themselves into,
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: which is they say they agree with Joe Biden that
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: we need to rebuild our roads and bridges and our infrastructure.
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: And the only reason that they will not work with
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: Joe Biden to create these good paying jobs that they
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: say are so necessary is because they are unwilling to
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: ask corporations to pay one single dollar in additional taxes.
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: They are unwilling to close loopholes for companies that ship
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: jobs overseas. We joke about this all the time, but
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: that's the single most popular message in every campaign we've
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: worked on in two decades. I almost hope that we
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: leave that out of the final bill just so we
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: can run on it again, but that's probably a little cynical.
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: We will.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: Either way. Either way, we will.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: That's right. That's right.
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: But you need to be able to tell a story about,
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: we are going to win these elections in 2022 and
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: going forward by making sure that voters understand the Republicans
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: are fighting for corporations. You need a story with good
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: guys and bad guys and who you're fighting for, and
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: we lose that if we cannot demonstrate their opposition is
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: because of their fealty to their corporate donors.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: I am really just befuddled by this anxiety and that
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: Washington Post story on the tax issue. If you are
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: a Democratic consultant, a pollster, a strategist, a member of
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: Congress who thinks that our analysis here is wrong, please
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: come on Pod Save America and tell us why. I
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: want to hear why. I realize it's not as fun
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: as anonymously speaking to the Washington Post. That is a
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: real trip. But just come on. We'll have a conversation
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: about it because I can't understand it. It is literally
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: the most popular issue. The most popular issue I can
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: imagine is like tax hikes on the rich. Not even
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: tax hikes. It's like protecting. The way I was framing
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: it when I started talking about it was it's protecting
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: Trump tax cuts for the rich. I can't imagine anything
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: less popular than protecting Trump tax cuts for the rich.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know who is also befuddled by this?
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: Joe Biden.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: I'm sure. I'm sure the White House is like, what
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: the fuck is wrong with these people?
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: I mean, he leaned into it aggressively at a White
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: House event last week. His pollster retweeted my message box
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: piece about it in case there was any subtlety about
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: how they feel about it.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: It's just common sense politics.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: Bizarre. Anyway, come on Pod Save America, any of you
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: nervous Democrats. One place where the Biden administration is making
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: great progress is their vaccination program, the pace of which
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: has once again picked up over the last few days
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: after falling for a little bit. Nearly 60% of the
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: eligible population has now received at least one dose. One
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: of the big challenges now is reaching people who may
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: be hesitant about taking the vaccine. partly due to the
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: rampant spread of disinformation like this.
• 25:24
  Speaker 5: More deaths have been connected to the new COVID vaccines
• 25:27
  Speaker 5: over the past four months than to all previous vaccines
• 25:30
  Speaker 5: combined over a period of more than 15 years. Very
• 25:35
  Speaker 5: same system, very different results.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: So Tucker Carlson has been doing this almost every night
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: for the last three weeks, telling millions of people that
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: according to government data, Nearly 4,000 Americans have died after
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: getting the COVID vaccine, and so they shouldn't feel pressure
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: to get it. This made me very angry. So I
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: tweeted that Tucker is using his show to spread anti-vax conspiracies.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: And then Fox News senior political analyst Brate Hume replied
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: to me that my statement was flat out false and
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: that Tucker was just asking questions about the risks of
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: vaccines based on government data. Dan, do you want to
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: try answering those questions for Tucker that he's just asking?
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: It's like where to begin.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: Let's begin by telling people why he was so wrong.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: I feel like that's where we should start. Then we
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: can talk all about the political ramifications and what a
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: fucking asshole he is.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: What Tucker Carlson is doing is using data from a
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: self-reported database about the effects of vaccines. This database has been,
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: which serves real purpose for people who care about science
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: and truth, but has been abused by the anti-vax movement
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: for a very long time, even predating COVID. Basically, the
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: most important point here is that this database indicates that
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: some number of people died after having the vaccine. Not
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: that they died because they took the vaccine. When you
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: vaccinate tens of millions of people, some of them are
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: going to die, just as like when millions of people
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: get their car washed. Some of them die after getting
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: their car washed.
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: They didn't die.
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: Because they got their car washed. You could do this
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: with almost anything. This is a deeply dangerous propaganda tactic
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: that people use, conspiracy theorists use all the time to
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: take A and B and try to explain how it
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: equals C when they're two completely separate things.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is about the vaccine adverse event reporting system
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: that the government runs. Basically, it's this system where anytime
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: someone dies who has had the vaccine, you can you
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: can report it. Or if you're just an anti-vax conspiracy,
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: you can report it. The system does not verify any
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: of the data or any of the stories. It just
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: has it as an open source thing for anyone to
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: look at. And then it starts researching each story to
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: see if there's any link. And in fact, the CDC
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: did research all of the stories about people possibly dying
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: after the vaccine and said, quote, A review of available
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy and medical records, has
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines. So the
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: government says there is no link at all after looking
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: at all the data. And otherwise, you have unverified data
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: floating around on a website that Tucker Carlson and anti-vaxxers
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: are using online. to sow doubts about the vaccine. 8,000
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: people die in the United States every day of all
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: kinds of causes. So the fact that nearly 4,000 Americans
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: have died who happened to also get the COVID vaccine,
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: which now a third of the country has received, doesn't
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: tell you much, especially because the first people that we
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: vaccinated are elderly and frail people who have a lot
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: of conditions. So of course, a lot of them are
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: going to die of natural causes anyway, because they're very,
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: very old. And this is what Tucker Carlson is doing. Now,
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: why don't you think any of Fox's so-called straight news
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: reporters don't point out that their colleague is spreading misinformation
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: that could cause people to get sick and die?
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: Some of them probably agree with Tucker Carlson. I mean,
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: it's a self-selecting audience of people who join a propaganda
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: network that shills for a dangerous authoritarian president, profits off
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: of racial division and conspiracy theories. So it's not a
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: representative sample of American journalists or the American public.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: But the other reason is they are replaceable.
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: They work for Tucker Carlson.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: He makes the money.
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: He is the one they can't fire. So Brett Baier
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: someone who is sometimes lauded by journalists, maybe he's a
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: little conservative, but he's a serious journalist. Tucker Carlson's audience
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: is three times Brett Baier's. Fox News can hire anyone
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: to replace Brett Baier. They could put John Roberts in there.
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: They could put Bill Hemmer in there.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: No one cares.
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: There is no constituency for Bill Hemmer outside of the
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: people who make the invite list for book parties in Washington, D.C., right?
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: No one cares about Bret Baier. So he is replaceable.
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: And if Bret Baier or Brit Hume or any of
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: these other straight news reporters were to be fired, they
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: will not work in major television again. They are damaged goods.
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: Maybe they can get a job co-hosting a panel show
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: with Mark Halperin on.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: Newsmax, but that is it.
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: Megyn Kelly went to NBC, took a whole bunch of money,
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: lit herself on fire, and got fired and now hosts
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: a podcast, which is a very, obviously, a very serious
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: line of work.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, hey, easy, easy, whoa.
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: Shep Smith left Fox with real credibility because he was
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: the one news reporter who stood up to Tucker Carlson
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: and Sean Handy for some of their lies. He went
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: to see NBC, got paid a ton of money. No
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: one watches his show, as far as I can tell.
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: And so this is it. If you want to be,
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: they have nowhere to go in television if they leave Fox.
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: And Fox does not care. Tucker Carlson makes the money.
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: Sean Hannity makes the money. Laura Ingraham makes the money.
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: These guys are just, they are propaganda adjacent. They are
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: just there to try to launder the propaganda into the
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: mainstream by pretending to be news reporters. And so the
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: thing that's annoying is they've all been vaccinated.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: They're all gone.
• 31:20
  Speaker 4: Oh, yeah.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: I was going to say that.
• 31:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: Like, and we know this because some of them have
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: actually spoken about it on air. Brett Baer has been vaccinated.
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: The cast of The Five, Jesse Waters on that crew
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: has been vaccinated.
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: No, the Murdochs, Rupert Murdoch, who owns the whole fucking
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: poisonous empire, was one of the first people to get
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: the vaccine.
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: Which is a sign that there is something wrong with
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: the universe.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: Oh, my God. I should note to everyone that what
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: you said about Brett Baer and him just, you know,
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: being a teleprompter reader, essentially, um, you, you did tweet
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: that and that caused you to immediately get blocked by bread.
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: Look, you got, when these, you know, these free speech,
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: anti-cancel culture warriors who, uh, you know, they don't want
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: to be in their safe spaces. The only thing I
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: would say, Brett Baer and I have never liked each other.
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: We have our distaste for each other goes back a decade. I, uh,
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: would never really pretend that he was the serious journalist
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: that he thought he was. And at least from him
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: blocking me, I know he read my tweet. So I
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: have that.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: I'll sleep well at night knowing that.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: What's really insidious about what Tucker is doing, and Ron
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: Johnson is doing it as well, the America's Dumbest Senator
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: from Wisconsin.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: He's doing it on Tucker's show.
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: On Tucker's show, right? So they're all, yeah, there's a
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: whole bunch of people doing this. And the insidious part
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: of what they're doing is they're not just out there saying,
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: don't take the COVID vaccine. I'm against it. I'm an
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: anti-vaxxer because they know that that's too much and that
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: they're not going to be persuasive. And so what they
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: do is they just throw out the, I'm just asking questions.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: Brit Hume. yelling at me tucker's just asking questions he's
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: not anti-vax he's just asking some questions so then of
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: course this like random twitter person replies to to the
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: argument that brit hume and i are having and and
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: writes thank you tucker carlson and brit hume for stepping
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: up and talking about this i feel like the vaccines
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: will cause a lot of deaths and do not want
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: any of my family to take them congratulations brit hume
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: and tucker carlson you've convinced another person not to take
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: a life-saving vaccine that's what you've done congratulations It's real.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, look, and Tucker says he's just asking questions.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: Invite someone on the show who can answer your questions.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: During this Twitter exchange too, Dr. Craig Spencer at Columbia University.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: He said he's tried to contact Tucker's producers multiple times
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: that he'd go on the show and talk about it. Tucker,
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: anyone at Fox News, Brett Baier, Chris Wallace, any of
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: you so-called straight news reporters, do us a favor. Book
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: someone on one of your shows who can talk about
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: the safety of vaccines, a medical expert, a public health expert.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: If you're just asking questions and you're not afraid of
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: the answers, then you would happily have someone on your
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: show to give the answers. That's what you would do
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: unless you just want to spread anti-vax conspiracies. I'm going
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: to hold my breath. I'm going to hold my breath.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: All right. We want to end by talking about what's
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: probably the biggest election this year, the Virginia governor's race
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: in November, which at least one political analyst thinks could
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: be competitive after years of Democratic wins. Yikes. So here's
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: what we got. Popular Democratic governor Ralph Northam is term-limited.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: and he has endorsed former Governor Terry McAuliffe to replace him.
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: Voting has already begun in the June 8th Democratic primary,
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: where McAuliffe currently has a huge lead over his challengers,
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: one of whom, former delegate Jennifer Carroll Foy, we'll be
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: talking with Dan in just a minute. We've also reached
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: out to the McAuliffe campaign and hope to have him
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: on soon as well. So that's the Democratic side. On
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: the Republican side, this week, the party nominated first-time candidate
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: Glenn Youngkin, a Trump-endorsed former Carlyle Group CEO worth $ 300
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: million who ran on a platform of election integrity. Wow,
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: look at that. And yet, even though Northam won his
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: 2017 race by nine points and Biden won Virginia by
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: 10 points, Cook Political Report's Dave Wasserman said, quote, I
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: think Republicans actually have a good chance to win the
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: Virginia governor's race this year. And also tweeted, quote, Dems
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: shouldn't assume Virginia's anti-Trump shift is automatically a durable pro-democratic shift.
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: Were you as shocked by that take as me? What's
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: Dave's reasoning there?
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: His reasoning is essentially that a large swath of Virginia
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: reacted against Trump. It's why it had such strong results
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: in 17, 18, 19, and 20. And the state had
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: been much closer prior to that. So he is assuming
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: that there's a possibility with a solid Republican candidate that
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: it could be more competitive. And he went on to
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: say less than 50, more than 25%, I think, which
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: people can decide whether that's a good chance, but it
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: certainly makes it a competitive race. So this is what
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: I would say about that. Democrats won Virginia in 2001
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: and 2005 in both governance races, the 2006 Senate race,
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: the 2008 Senate and presidential race, the 2012 presidential and
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: Senate race, the 2013 governor's race, the 2016 presidential race,
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: 2017 governor's race, 2018 Senate race, 2020 presidential race, and
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: I left out the 2019 state legislative races. So Democrats
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: long before Trump and through Trump have done very well
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: in this state. The state is very clearly demographically moving
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: more to the Democrats and the shift as the Democrats
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: have become more a party of suburban voters, Virginia is
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: a state that has a high percentage of college-educated voters
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: who have become a part of our base.
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: So it makes a lot of sense.
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: The thing I left out in there, which I think
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: is relevant to Wasserman's point, which I don't necessarily disagree with,
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: which is 2013, when Terry McAuliffe was elected. It was
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: a much closer race than people thought. And McAuliffe won
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: in part because the Republicans nominated a terrible candidate in
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: Ken Kuzinelli, and there was a libertarian candidate who got,
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: I think, 6% or 7% of the vote. And McAuliffe
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: won by two and a half, I believe. So that
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: was a very close race. I also left out 2009
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: when the Democrats lost the governor's race there. And what
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: is the same between 2009 and 2021 is you had–
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: it is a– in both cases, Democrats had won– had
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: the governorship for eight consecutive years. And just traditionally over
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: the course of history, although I think it's changing somewhat
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: because of polarization, it's harder to win three in a row.
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: And so there is a chance of bounce back. The
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: other thing that clearly informs Wasserman's point is for the
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: first time in a long time, the Republicans did not
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: pick their worst possible candidate.
• 38:00
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: Amanda Chase, who was a far, far right Trumpy candidate,
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: was running.
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: There was a lot of thought that she was she
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: was that she was at the riot on January 6th.
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: She would. And, you know, in 2000, this.
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: Is all relative. This is relative. Who's the who's the
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: Trumpiest candidate here?
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: And the Virginia Republicans have a tendency to shoot themselves
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: in the foot because they do this by convention, not
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: by primary. So the activist base has a lot to
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: do with it. In 2018, when they were looking for
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: a candidate to run against Tim Kaine, they nominated Corey Stewart,
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: an actual supporter of the Confederacy. And in case you
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: thought that Corey Stewart's Confederate ties meant he had deep
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: ties in the state of Virginia, that would be incorrect.
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: He was raised in Minnesota. So we have a carpetbagging
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: confederate was who their choice was. Cuccinelli against McAuliffe was
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: a terrible choice. Now, I also think compared to Cuccinelli,
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: Amanda Chase, and Corey Stewart, Hyken is a good candidate.
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: But he is still a.
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: Big lie-believing, Trump-endorsed, very wealthy hedge fund executive, which is
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: not a great profile on paper.
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: I think you can run against Glenn Youngkin as a
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: Trumpy Mitt Romney. All the benefits we had in 12
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: of running against a really rich businessman who also was
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: proposing cutting taxes for the wealthy and cutting services to people.
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: I really think that you can use the fact that
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: he was the fucking Carlisle Group CEO of all all
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: the places, the Carlisle Group. Carlisle Group that has... done
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: a deal to force Taylor Swift to rerecord all her
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: albums because they took away the IP. That's important in
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: my household.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: In your house, yes.
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: That's important in my household, but it's a big issue
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: in this race. But I don't see Glenn Youngkin, who
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: you're right, he has Trump's endorsement. he said he was
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: on tape during the primary saying, oh, they call me
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: another Donald Trump. I say, thank you. You know, like
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: he has these comments and then saying that election integrity
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: was his most important issue in the primary. Now he's
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: going to try to pivot. He's already trying to pivot
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: for the general by trying to like distance himself from
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump. Like, I think he's not dumb, but I
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: still think Because of the demographic makeup of the state,
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: because he's a multimillionaire a hundred times over, hundreds of
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: times over, who's running on a traditional Republican platform and
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: has embraced Donald Trump, I still think you're going to
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: have a tough time, even though he's less Trumpy than
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: the other candidates.
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the whole conversation, based off the Wasserman tweet, who,
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: for very good reason, his voice carries a lot of weight.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: He's a great analyst. Yeah.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: He disagrees with him.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: He's a great analyst.
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: And he was right about a lot of stuff in
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: 2016 that others, including some people on this podcast, were
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: wrong about.
• 40:47
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: But the way the debate played on Twitter was not
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: the nuanced reaction to the nuanced point that Dave was making.
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: It was.
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: Some people saying, well, Dave says that Republicans are going
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: to win. And a bunch of people then it's like, well,
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: Democrats who say that Democrats can't lose. No one is
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: saying Republicans are going to win. No one is saying
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: Democrats can't win. I think where Wasserman's right is Republicans
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: have a better chance than you would think given all
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: of the data that I just put out there. But
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: that doesn't mean they are favored.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: And Dave said that.
• 41:19
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: And Dave said he's like, I still think they're underdogs,
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: but I think they have a better chance than usual.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: That's really what it boils down to. So I know
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: you're talking to Jennifer Carroll Foy soon. What do you
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: make of McAuliffe's lead in the primary and the dynamics
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: of that race?
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: I mean, people may not know this, but Virginia has
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: a completely insane law that governors only serve one term consecutively.
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: And McAuliffe was governor from 2013 to 2017. He was
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: a very successful governor. He was very popular when he left.
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: He would have run for reelection in a state without
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: this insane law and almost certainly would have won, given
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: the results in that state. And so it's not surprising
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: that he is leading. He has 100% name ID. He
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: has a ton of money and has been spending it
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: on television. But there's still, you know, and what do
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: we believe about polls and primary polls?
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: Who knows?
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: But he is a big lead. If there is, there
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: are a lot of candidates. Jennifer Carroll Forey is by,
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: I think, all candidates. analysis from sort of political observers
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: in Virginia elsewhere, the only person other than McAuliffe who
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: could win this primary.
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: If there was.
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: Consolidation among the anti-McAuliffe group out there and, you know,
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: a pretty significant chunk of undecided voters, it could become
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: a race. But right now he is a name ID
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: advantage and money ID advantage. And it will be in
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: the challenge for Jennifer Carroll-Forey, and she and I will
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: talk about this in this interview, is what is your
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: best argument to show why the guy who was governor
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: four years ago, who you liked and probably would have reelected,
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: should not be elected now? That's not an easy argument
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: to make to Democratic primary voters. It's a different argument
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: to make in a general election, but to Democratic primary
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: voters who like McAuliffe, that's hard.
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I should say, I really like Jennifer Carol Foy.
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: I've always respected her a lot. I interviewed her on
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: The Wilderness, the first season of The Wilderness, when she
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: was running for delegate for the first time and sort
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: of discovered her through Run for Something, which we talk
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: about all the time. And I remember Amanda Lipman, who
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: runs Run for Something, at the time was like, Jennifer
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: Carol Foy is a star. She's going to be governor
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: of Virginia someday. She said that back then in 2017.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: And I remember speaking to her and being like incredibly impressed.
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: The challenge that she's facing, aside from everything you just said,
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: it's like, She's running against, and all of these candidates
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: are running against, a very popular former governor who everyone
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: in the state knows and has universal name ID because
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: he was their governor really not that long ago, right?
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: He left office in 2018 with an overall approval rating
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: of 54%. Among Democrats, the approval rating was 82%. Among
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: black voters, 87%. 18 to 29-year-olds, 73%, right? So like
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: even constituencies that you would imagine a progressive challenger, especially,
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: you know, Jennifer Carroll Foy, who if she won would
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: be the first woman, first black woman governor in the country.
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: Even groups that she would normally try to rely on,
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: like approve of Terry McAuliffe by huge margins. So it's
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: really hard to sort of dent that, especially in a
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: crowded primary, especially against someone with such recognized name ID,
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: who everyone knows. So it's like, you can't tell people
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: a lot of stuff about Terry McAuliffe that they don't
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: already know. And even when you try to attack Terry McAuliffe,
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: I think for a voter in Virginia, they're thinking to
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: themselves like, well, I haven't heard about this before. And
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: I was around when he was governor for four years.
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: So like, I feel like I know him. So it's
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: just a really tough race for any challenger to run.
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: I think.
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it is.
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: It's, you know, there's still, there's time. I mean, the
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: election's not.
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there is time.
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: More than a month.
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: Although people are voting now in Virginia, a state which
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: has very good voting laws in a lot of ways. Um,
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: But yeah, he has a real leg up. And you'll
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: hear in the interview, it was that Jennifer Carroll Foy
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: is a tremendously compelling candidate, brilliant with a real message.
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: But I think everyone acknowledged, I imagine her campaign would
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: acknowledge that it is an uphill battle against McCullough for sure.
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: Well, we will hear more from Jennifer Carroll Foy herself
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: when Dan talks to her right after this break.
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: I'm here with former Virginia state delegate and candidate for governor,
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: Jennifer Carol Floyd.
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: Jennifer, welcome to Positive America.
• 45:40
  Speaker 4: Hi, thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: So the first time a lot of our listeners learned
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: about you and got to know you was when you
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: were a first-time candidate running in 2017 in that incredibly
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: important election, which now feels like 100 years ago after
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: Trump and when people were starting to get engaged in politics.
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: How has your experience in politics been and how has
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: it led you for this race for governor?
• 46:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so I can tell you that running for the
• 46:06
  Speaker 4: House of Delegates while pregnant with twins, flipping a seat
• 46:10
  Speaker 4: from red to blue, being out-raised and out-endorsed was no
• 46:13
  Speaker 4: easy task. But I knew that we needed change. And
• 46:18
  Speaker 4: in order for there to be change, you have to
• 46:22
  Speaker 4: have a new leader with a clear vision and bold
• 46:24
  Speaker 4: ideas who's willing to run and win. And so I'm
• 46:27
  Speaker 4: excited to say that doing that has helped us win
• 46:31
  Speaker 4: the majority here in Virginia. And that trifecta feels real good.
• 46:35
  Speaker 4: We've been able to dismantle a lot of voter suppression tactics,
• 46:38
  Speaker 4: protect choice, you know, and give teachers salary increases. And
• 46:43
  Speaker 4: I've kept all my promises here in Virginia, expanding Medicaid,
• 46:45
  Speaker 4: clean up toxic coal ash. And so you can only
• 46:48
  Speaker 4: do that if someone's willing to put their neck out
• 46:50
  Speaker 4: and do the hard thing of putting their name on
• 46:51
  Speaker 4: the ballot. And so, you know, we've been able to
• 46:55
  Speaker 4: do that. And now we're going to move to the
• 46:57
  Speaker 4: 21st century by electing the first Black woman governor in
• 46:59
  Speaker 4: the history of our country.
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: Virginia has had eight years of Democratic governors, as you said,
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: the trifecta for the last few years. What are the
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: things that did not get accomplished over those last eight years,
• 47:10
  Speaker 3: or even those last four years since you've been in office,
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: that you would want to see done as soon as
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: you were elected governor?
• 47:16
  Speaker 4: So it's really about making gains on the progress we've
• 47:19
  Speaker 4: been building. And so I think we've had a really
• 47:22
  Speaker 4: good start. But under a Jennifer Carol Foy administration, we
• 47:25
  Speaker 4: will be bolder, we will transformational. Because in order for
• 47:29
  Speaker 4: us to really desegregate our schools and our communities, we
• 47:33
  Speaker 4: have to make the investments of a current localities to
• 47:36
  Speaker 4: support inclusionary zoning and up zoning. So we tell developers,
• 47:40
  Speaker 4: you can build the communities, but only if you set
• 47:43
  Speaker 4: aside units for low and moderate income people. That's how
• 47:46
  Speaker 4: we'll get more cars off the road. People can live
• 47:47
  Speaker 4: where they work. And we'll be able to have more
• 47:51
  Speaker 4: affordable housing here in Virginia. If we are really talking
• 47:53
  Speaker 4: about having this racial reckoning Then we need a governor
• 47:56
  Speaker 4: who will pass bills and budgets to uplift communities that
• 47:59
  Speaker 4: have been most hurt and harmed by mass incarceration, over
• 48:02
  Speaker 4: policing and disinvestments. So as governor, you know, I'm excited
• 48:06
  Speaker 4: to say I've passed a bill to prohibit the use
• 48:08
  Speaker 4: of chokeholds by law enforcement officers. So we don't have
• 48:11
  Speaker 4: an Eric Garner situation, help pass bills to have a
• 48:14
  Speaker 4: ban on a knock warrant. So we don't have a
• 48:16
  Speaker 4: Breonna Taylor situation. But if we do, as governor, I
• 48:20
  Speaker 4: will implement a civilian review board that's mandatory and applies
• 48:23
  Speaker 4: to sheriff's offices as well. I will end qualified immunity
• 48:27
  Speaker 4: because accountability is important. You know, my protest is in
• 48:30
  Speaker 4: passing policies, bills, and budgets. And so I think that's
• 48:34
  Speaker 4: what's important. And it's also important to march at rallies
• 48:37
  Speaker 4: and protests, but we also have to protest at the
• 48:39
  Speaker 4: ballot and vote people into office who will be principal
• 48:42
  Speaker 4: leaders to stand up for our communities.
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: You have described former Governor McAuliffe, who I think most
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: people would say is your chief opponent in this race,
• 48:50
  Speaker 3: the person who's been leading in the polls. as a
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: career politician that represents Virginia's past. What do you mean
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: by that?
• 48:57
  Speaker 4: So I mean that politicians of the past here in Virginia,
• 49:00
  Speaker 4: like Terry McCullough, they make great, robust promises. But after
• 49:05
  Speaker 4: campaign season, they know where to be found. So I'm
• 49:07
  Speaker 4: running for governor because I was a part of one
• 49:09
  Speaker 4: of those communities in Petersburg. You know, it was once
• 49:12
  Speaker 4: an affluent, well-to-do community. But when businesses closed, jobs left
• 49:15
  Speaker 4: to spare crept in. So we have only two accredited
• 49:19
  Speaker 4: schools in all of the city. We have some of
• 49:21
  Speaker 4: the highest child poverty rates, and that is where I'm from.
• 49:24
  Speaker 4: And I can tell you there's so many communities just
• 49:26
  Speaker 4: like mine throughout Petersburg. And so there's politicians who will
• 49:29
  Speaker 4: come around and they'll stand shoulder to shoulder with special interests,
• 49:33
  Speaker 4: but not with the people of Virginia. That's why he
• 49:35
  Speaker 4: did a backroom deal with the NRA under Monica's still
• 49:38
  Speaker 4: weapons laws. You know, he bought the pipelines to Virginia,
• 49:41
  Speaker 4: which is an environmental racism issue because brown and black
• 49:45
  Speaker 4: people are more likely to live near landfills, pipelines, and
• 49:48
  Speaker 4: power plants. You know, all of these things are what
• 49:51
  Speaker 4: we can expect from politicians of old. But now is
• 49:56
  Speaker 4: the new day. Now is our time. Now is our turn.
• 49:59
  Speaker 4: Virginia's had, you know, governors who represented the wealthy and
• 50:02
  Speaker 4: well-connected for far too long. Now it's time for a
• 50:05
  Speaker 4: governor who will pass paid sick days, paid family medical leave,
• 50:08
  Speaker 4: have a $ 15 minimum wage now, not five or 10
• 50:11
  Speaker 4: years from now, who will fight for unions and uplift women, wages,
• 50:16
  Speaker 4: and workers all throughout Virginia. So that's exactly what I
• 50:19
  Speaker 4: mean when I say this race for governor is really clear.
• 50:23
  Speaker 4: It's about Virginia's past, or they can vote for Virginia's future,
• 50:29
  Speaker 4: which is a Jennifer Carroll Foy administration.
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: You laid out several things that Governor McAuliffe did when
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: in office that you thought you disagree with, you thought
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: did not work, you know, we're not fulfilling campaign promises.
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: What are some of the specific differences on some of
• 50:44
  Speaker 3: the core issues going forward in terms of like, were
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: you guys disagree on some of the, on issues, either
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: where it was healthcare or criminal justice reform or some
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: other issues, just so our listeners understand what, you know,
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: the differences at the ballot.
• 50:58
  Speaker 4: So this is a two person race between Terry McAuliffe
• 51:00
  Speaker 4: and I. We have the message, the resources, the mobilization
• 51:05
  Speaker 4: in order to win this election on June 8th. But
• 51:08
  Speaker 4: we can always use as many people's support as possible.
• 51:11
  Speaker 4: The main differences between Terry McAuliffe and I going forward
• 51:14
  Speaker 4: is that he'll talk about accountability, but he won't say
• 51:17
  Speaker 4: that he'll end qualified immunity. He's actually made statements in
• 51:20
  Speaker 4: the past saying that he will always come down on
• 51:22
  Speaker 4: the side of law enforcement. We're not the same Virginia
• 51:25
  Speaker 4: of five years ago. We all had to watch as
• 51:27
  Speaker 4: a man lost his life for eight minutes and 46
• 51:30
  Speaker 4: seconds under another man's knee. We understand that while there
• 51:34
  Speaker 4: are many good officers out there doing the right thing,
• 51:37
  Speaker 4: If that's not the case, then we need a governor
• 51:39
  Speaker 4: who will stand up for the people and fight for
• 51:41
  Speaker 4: true transparency, accountability, and justice. And being the first public
• 51:45
  Speaker 4: defender ever elected to the Virginia General Assembly, I've dedicated
• 51:48
  Speaker 4: my life to this work, helping people from the courthouse
• 51:51
  Speaker 4: to the statehouse. So as they don't listen to the rhetoric,
• 51:54
  Speaker 4: check the record. And my record is getting things done
• 51:58
  Speaker 4: on police reform and criminal justice reform. We talk about
• 52:00
  Speaker 4: environmental justice. You know, Terry McAuliffe took money hand over
• 52:04
  Speaker 4: fence from one of the number one state corporate donors
• 52:06
  Speaker 4: and fossil fuel companies in Virginia, letting them try to
• 52:11
  Speaker 4: terminate a historically Black community called Union Hill with the
• 52:15
  Speaker 4: pipeline and compressor station. Allow, you know, people in my community,
• 52:20
  Speaker 4: in Prince William County, to be poisoned by coal ash,
• 52:23
  Speaker 4: which has lead arsenic and mercury that was seeping in
• 52:25
  Speaker 4: people's well-drinking water. And he did absolutely nothing. What did
• 52:29
  Speaker 4: I do? I took on the fossil fuel companies, and
• 52:32
  Speaker 4: I won. Cleaning up toxic coal ash here in Virginia,
• 52:35
  Speaker 4: exceeding EPA standards, helping to beat back pipelines, and helping
• 52:40
  Speaker 4: to pass the Virginia Clean Economy Act, making Virginia the
• 52:42
  Speaker 4: first southern state to have 100% zero carbon emission standard.
• 52:46
  Speaker 4: And as governor, I'll bring 15,000 new renewable jobs to
• 52:49
  Speaker 4: Virginia for the next 15 years, and I will not
• 52:52
  Speaker 4: leave my former fossil fuel workers or coal miners behind.
• 52:55
  Speaker 4: I will have a just transition while also protecting cost-sensitive communities.
• 52:59
  Speaker 4: So these are just some of the ways that we
• 53:01
  Speaker 4: are different. He also did that backroom deal with the
• 53:04
  Speaker 4: NRA undermining concealed weapon laws in Virginia. For me, I
• 53:07
  Speaker 4: will pass an assault weapons ban here in Virginia. It
• 53:10
  Speaker 4: worked on the federal level, it'll work here. We had
• 53:13
  Speaker 4: Virginia Tech and Virginia Beach. But I'll also make investments
• 53:17
  Speaker 4: to have violence interruption programs because we have to end
• 53:21
  Speaker 4: everyday urban gun violence in Virginia as well. What Terry
• 53:25
  Speaker 4: McAuliffe have failed to make inroads on those policies And
• 53:28
  Speaker 4: that's why Shannon Watts from Moms Demand Action, after I
• 53:31
  Speaker 4: announced I'm running for governor, said Jennifer Carol Foy will
• 53:34
  Speaker 4: be the next governor of Virginia. Because many of these
• 53:36
  Speaker 4: advocates remember Terry McAuliffe pulling the NRA into a room
• 53:41
  Speaker 4: and kicking them all out, the gun safety advocates and
• 53:45
  Speaker 4: the families who are mourning their dead children because of
• 53:49
  Speaker 4: gun violence here in the Commonwealth. So these are just
• 53:51
  Speaker 4: a few ways how we differ and how I am
• 53:54
  Speaker 4: the true champion of the people and will really get
• 53:56
  Speaker 4: things done for the people in Virginia.
• 53:59
  Speaker 3: I want to ask you about, you said this is
• 54:00
  Speaker 3: a two-person race between you and Governor McAuliffe. Have you
• 54:04
  Speaker 3: explained why you think that's the case? We don't put
• 54:06
  Speaker 3: a lot of stock in polling after the last few elections,
• 54:10
  Speaker 3: but there is sort of two tiers, or maybe there's
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: three tiers. There's Governor McAuliffe, former Governor McAuliffe, who obviously
• 54:17
  Speaker 3: 100% name ID, but up in the polls. And then
• 54:21
  Speaker 3: sort of a group of a couple of people, yourself included,
• 54:24
  Speaker 3: who are in that next tier. Why do you think
• 54:27
  Speaker 3: this is, you know, what gives you confidence that this
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: is a two-person race between you and the former governor?
• 54:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so, you know, I don't subscribe to the poll
• 54:35
  Speaker 4: poster as much either.
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: But what I can say- Good use of the term, yes.
• 54:40
  Speaker 4: And so what I can say is that Virginians are
• 54:42
  Speaker 4: just now tuning into this race for governor. Our election
• 54:45
  Speaker 4: is on June 8th. So we still have a runway.
• 54:48
  Speaker 4: And the great thing is, is that we know our
• 54:49
  Speaker 4: polls and focus groups show that once they hear our
• 54:52
  Speaker 4: positive vision for Virginia, they know our record. They listen
• 54:56
  Speaker 4: to me speak and hear the passion in my voice
• 54:58
  Speaker 4: that they understand that there is only one true and
• 55:01
  Speaker 4: right and deserving person who needs to be the next
• 55:05
  Speaker 4: governor of Virginia. And that's definitely me. And so we
• 55:08
  Speaker 4: are galvanizing support all across the Commonwealth. We're going to
• 55:11
  Speaker 4: have the most aggressive ground game and mobilizing the most
• 55:14
  Speaker 4: diverse coalition of voters that Virginia has ever seen. And
• 55:17
  Speaker 4: so that's what it's really about. The polls that we
• 55:19
  Speaker 4: are fighting and care the most about are the polls
• 55:20
  Speaker 4: on June 8th, because it's hard to gauge the momentum
• 55:25
  Speaker 4: and excitement that we're seeing and we're hearing all throughout Virginia.
• 55:28
  Speaker 4: And we've seen these polls not be correct before. You know,
• 55:32
  Speaker 4: I can tell you when I ran for the House
• 55:33
  Speaker 4: of Delegates in 2017, they were totally off, you know,
• 55:37
  Speaker 4: and didn't have me winning in the way that I won.
• 55:41
  Speaker 4: Flipping a seat from red to blue, being outraced, outspent,
• 55:45
  Speaker 4: because this was a red district carved out for a Republican.
• 55:50
  Speaker 4: And I was able to win it in a big way,
• 55:52
  Speaker 4: win Quantico military base and flip areas that had never
• 55:56
  Speaker 4: been turned blue before. So I can tell you the
• 55:58
  Speaker 4: polls have gotten it wrong before and they will get
• 56:00
  Speaker 4: it wrong again in this race, you know, because at
• 56:02
  Speaker 4: the end of the day, we see a clear path
• 56:04
  Speaker 4: to win. And that path is ensuring that everyone hears
• 56:08
  Speaker 4: our clear, positive vision for Virginia.
• 56:12
  Speaker 3: If you were the nominee, you will be running against
• 56:15
  Speaker 3: Glenn Youngkin, who was nominated by the Republicans just this week.
• 56:19
  Speaker 3: Talk to me about what's your reaction to that choice
• 56:22
  Speaker 3: and how do you see him as a potential opponent?
• 56:26
  Speaker 4: So I think that the Republican Party, they're really going
• 56:29
  Speaker 4: through a time right now. And when I hear from Virginians,
• 56:34
  Speaker 4: they tell me they want a leader who understands their
• 56:36
  Speaker 4: struggles and who can relate to what they're going through,
• 56:39
  Speaker 4: who has actually walked in their shoes. So I have
• 56:42
  Speaker 4: worked multiple minimum wage jobs just to get by and
• 56:44
  Speaker 4: been unable to afford the high cost of healthcare. And
• 56:47
  Speaker 4: so they know that I don't just empathize with the
• 56:50
  Speaker 4: challenges they face. I understand. My husband and I both
• 56:53
  Speaker 4: had to sit at our kitchen table and break out
• 56:55
  Speaker 4: the checkbook to make some hard decisions. And I can
• 56:59
  Speaker 4: tell you that's how I've been able to succeed at VMI,
• 57:02
  Speaker 4: passing bills and budgets to help families get ahead. And
• 57:05
  Speaker 4: that's not the story of Terry McAuliffe or Glenn Youngkin.
• 57:09
  Speaker 4: Democrats will only win in November if we have someone
• 57:11
  Speaker 4: who can inspire our people to get to the polls.
• 57:15
  Speaker 4: And I'm really proud of our campaign and been attracting
• 57:18
  Speaker 4: millions of working families to support our vision that we've built.
• 57:23
  Speaker 4: But we have to remember that Terry McAuliffe barely eked
• 57:26
  Speaker 4: out a win in 2013 against a divisive figure like
• 57:30
  Speaker 4: Ken Cuccinelli. And Glenn Youngkin, he's offering more of the same.
• 57:34
  Speaker 4: He is Trump 2.0. He was just endorsed by him
• 57:37
  Speaker 4: as well. We have rejected that here in Virginia. Corey
• 57:40
  Speaker 4: Stewart tried it, and so did Eddie Gillespie, and they
• 57:43
  Speaker 4: were not successful. Because Virginians are looking for an inspiring
• 57:47
  Speaker 4: candidate who's going to improve their quality of life and
• 57:51
  Speaker 4: speak to the kitchen table issues that matter to them.
• 57:53
  Speaker 4: They're not going to flock to the polls to elect
• 57:56
  Speaker 4: one out-of-touch millionaire over another.
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: You know, as you mentioned at the top, America has
• 58:03
  Speaker 3: never had a Black woman governor before. You're running to
• 58:10
  Speaker 3: make history both in Virginia and across the country. I
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: wanted to ask you what that would mean, both in
• 58:16
  Speaker 3: Virginia and across the country.
• 58:17
  Speaker 4: So I can tell you for the millions of young
• 58:20
  Speaker 4: girls of color out there, it's hard to be what
• 58:23
  Speaker 4: you can't see. We have yet to have a Black
• 58:25
  Speaker 4: woman lead this country, and we have yet to have
• 58:28
  Speaker 4: a Black woman lead any state in this nation. But
• 58:31
  Speaker 4: that's going to end in 2021. Because representation matters. And
• 58:35
  Speaker 4: it's the representation that I bring as a working mom
• 58:38
  Speaker 4: of two three-year-olds who refuse to be potty trained during
• 58:41
  Speaker 4: a pandemic. It's the experience I bring as a public
• 58:44
  Speaker 4: defender representing Black, Brown, and poor Virginians navigate a broken
• 58:48
  Speaker 4: criminal justice system. As a foster mom for eight years.
• 58:52
  Speaker 4: This is a lens that I see things through. Fighting
• 58:55
  Speaker 4: for fairness, equality, and justice. So people know that I'm
• 58:58
  Speaker 4: in it for the right thing. But let's be clear.
• 59:00
  Speaker 4: Breaking down barriers and blazing trails is nothing new to me.
• 59:03
  Speaker 4: That's how I became one of the first women to
• 59:05
  Speaker 4: ever graduate from Virginia Military Institute, one of the top
• 59:08
  Speaker 4: military colleges in this country. And it wasn't easy. Being
• 59:12
  Speaker 4: the first public defender to ever be elected to the
• 59:14
  Speaker 4: Virginia General Assembly, where there was only one resounding voice
• 59:17
  Speaker 4: down there, which was prosecutors not thinking about the decisions
• 59:22
  Speaker 4: they make and how they affect communities and children and,
• 59:26
  Speaker 4: you know, poverty levels of so many people for generations.
• 59:31
  Speaker 4: And so lending my voice down there to bring real
• 59:33
  Speaker 4: robust reform and change. So this is just another point
• 59:38
  Speaker 4: and another time for us to be able to do
• 59:41
  Speaker 4: something that has not been done. And I've been told
• 59:44
  Speaker 4: no my entire life. But the one thing that people
• 59:47
  Speaker 4: will soon learn about me is, is that I eat
• 59:51
  Speaker 4: no for breakfast. So this will be no different.
• 59:55
  Speaker 3: Jennifer, thanks so much for joining us. And for all
• 59:57
  Speaker 3: of our friends of the pod out in Virginia, the
• 59:58
  Speaker 3: deadline to register to vote in the primary is this Monday,
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 3: May 17th. You can head over to votesaveamerica.com slash Virginia
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 3: to find everything in one place for the June 8th primary.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: We have the info you need to register, request a ballot,
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 3: vote early or on primary day, and get involved in
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 3: the campaign.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 4: Thanks. Please go to jennifercarolfoy.com. Thank you.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 3: After the interview, Jennifer Carol Foy's campaign reached out to
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 3: us to say that she misspoke when she claimed that
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 3: former Governor McAuliffe opposed ending qualified immunity. That is incorrect.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: He supports ending qualified immunity. We wanted to make sure
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 3: you had the correct information.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: Thanks to Jennifer Carroll-Foy for joining us today. Everyone have
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: a great weekend, and we will talk to you next week. Bye, everyone.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. The executive
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: producer is Michael Martinez. Our senior producer is Flavia Casas.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: Our associate producers are Jazzy Marine and Olivia Martinez. It's
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle Seglin is our
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: sound engineer. Thanks to Tanya Sominator, Katie Long, Roman Papadimitriou,
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: Caroline Rustin, and Justine Howe for production support. And to
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Nar Melkonian, Yale Freed, and
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: Milo Kim, who film and upload these episodes as videos
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: every week.