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Mick Doohan · Rusty's Garage

• 0:02
  A listener production.
• 0:15
  I'm automotive commentator and journalist Greg Rust and this is Rusty's Garage.
• 0:28
  In this episode, I'm at Crown Towers in Melbourne during race week for the Australian Motorcycle Grand Prix.
• 0:35
  I love that event.
• 0:36
  The Phillip Island race is as legendary for the classic old school style layout that is a favourite among the riders as it is for the unforgettable races won by Aussies over the years that have helped cement its place on the MotoGP calendar.
• 0:53
  Icons like Wayne Gardner, Casey Stoner and Mick Doohan.
• 0:58
  Mighty Mick overcame serious injury on the road to the top and has taken many of the tenacious attributes he became famous for on track to the boardroom and become a business success story in post-Grand Prix life.
• 1:13
  The journey to the top began simply by trying to keep up with family.
• 1:17
  The bike was a bloody silly little, I don't even know what engine it had on it, but it was what they call a box frame with a lawnmower engine in it, so like real small little wheels basically, the basic beginnings of a motorcycle.
• 1:35
  And then I moved on to a little Honda MR50 in about 1973.
• 1:42
  three or four so but you know the the little box frame thing was before that and then started racing probably around um in 1974 with that mr50 so about nine years old were you scared to twist the wrist or were you the tear away trying to keep up with family that were on bikes as well
• 1:58
  No, absolutely.
• 1:59
  I had two older brothers riding, so being the younger one, trying to keep up and keep them in sight initially.
• 2:06
  But I enjoyed it.
• 2:08
  I made a few mistakes, as you do when you're a kid, trying to find out your limits at that point in time.
• 2:14
  But I enjoyed it straight away.
• 2:15
  I really enjoyed the bikes and racing.
• 2:20
  It was something all three of us were doing week in, week out, really.
• 2:24
  Road racing for you, the debut happened, I think, at Surface Paradise in 84, Yamaha RZ350.
• 2:30
  That track's gone now, sadly.
• 2:32
  What are your recollections of that?
• 2:34
  And how did the transition to circuit racing come about?
• 2:37
  Was that always part of the ambition for you, part of the want?
• 2:41
  No, it wasn't, but yeah, with Surfers Paradise, it's a shame really, it's now a housing estate, it would have been ideal for a lot of different events really, everything from the supercars would race up there to different events right in the centre of town now, but that's the way things go, but I was really mainly still in dirt bikes, I didn't have much of an idea of road racing, or didn't think it would be that exciting to be honest, and yeah, I
• 3:11
  A guy that I used to race with when I was younger with dirt bikes borrowed my, I had an RZ350 production bike at that time along with a dirt bike.
• 3:26
  And he took it for a ride and come back with it all bent.
• 3:29
  I didn't have enough money to fix it.
• 3:30
  So a guy I knew from when I used to race at a wrecking yard, the Gold Coast bike wreckers, Bob Cowley, offered to fix it for nothing if I did a race on it.
• 3:41
  So I thought that sounded like a fair deal for me.
• 3:43
  So I did a race for it at Surfers Paradise.
• 3:46
  And I did well.
• 3:47
  I can't remember.
• 3:47
  I think I finished second against people like Terry Pavel...
• 3:51
  paviel i think his name was um i i know his name but the pronunciation the name i'm not sure uh is is correct but um he was a kiwi and went um he was the australian champion in the 250 class at that time so he thought um he thought i did okay mentioned it to bob cowley and then when i went in to see bob the next time a few weeks later bob had actually said what am i interested in doing racing bikes or or just messing around being a hooligan like i was doing
• 4:21
  And I basically said to him, if you give me a hobby, you know, and from there on in, he'd organised a Suzuki 250 production bike and basically things just went on from there.
• 4:32
  How important then, you mentioned the 250, how important were those production bikes?
• 4:36
  And even when you went into, you know, 1000cc production super bikes, how important were they for the skill set ultimately for you?
• 4:43
  Look, at that point in time, they were hugely important, but you don't really think anything of it at the time, and that's all we were racing here in Australia.
• 4:52
  Production bikes were the main game, and Superbike, as far as a series, hadn't even been, it was thought about, but it didn't start until 1998.
• 5:02
  So, you know, although Australia was...
• 5:06
  there was a endurance championship and the odd um super bike race so to speak but it was mainly all production bike racing and but the 250 you know because of the the entry level i guess the cost in the cost to enter was fairly cheap it was fairly big fields and it was quite competitive and you know sort of semi-manufacturer support and uh quite good racing so you know it was it was pretty cut and thrust and uh...
• 5:32
  you know everyone from a whole bunch of different riders had come through that series and and then basically moved on but you know in 1987 i was still racing a uh a 250 production bike and 88 i'm on a super bike 89 i'm on a 500 so so which um you know really as far as a as a
• 5:53
  as a breeding ground I guess um and and honing skills it went a long way you know didn't didn't really sort of prepare me for a 500 but still you know gave you the basic skill set you needed how did you get a foot in the door with the the 500s I mean the record book talks about your first GP being Japan 89 but what about the first ride how did the door open and and how awesome was it to ride one of those things back then or daunting for that matter
• 6:20
  The first time I went to Japan was 87, and an invite from a big Yamaha dealer up there, in fact, and I was riding with Yamaha here in Australia in the production bikes, and did quite well up there, and so, and then from the...
• 6:42
  87 doing doing a few things McGee then left to go to the 500 uh MotoGP in 88 and I basically replaced his um his ride here in Australia in the Marlborough Yamaha dealer team and I went well from the outset won the first race at Sandown and it was the Australian Endurance Championship because every race I think there was two one-hour races each each weekend and uh
• 7:08
  And I won the first race, and Barry Sheen had moved to Australia that year or the year before, and was doing the TV commentary, and he basically put a word in for a few guys back in Europe and said that some young guy, which would be an old guy now, but back then being 22 was young, but he was going quite well, so...
• 7:32
  Equally with that and the Superbike Series started the same year, and I did two Superbike races and won three out of the four of the races, and so that had the attention.
• 7:42
  With Wayne Gardner also winning in 87, McGee going there in 88, being a MotoGP.
• 7:49
  And both of them doing well.
• 7:50
  Sort of they were looking down here in Australia, so I was sort of in the right spot at the right time, doing well.
• 7:57
  I had signed a letter of intent through Sheeney with Suzuki through Barry Sheen for a, you know, it was a good number, but, you know, a number that I didn't think...
• 8:07
  I thought it was great and he thought it was great, but the things had moved on in only a short period of time from when he was riding.
• 8:13
  It had a Suzuki four-wheel drive as part of the deal, which I didn't have a car at the time, so I thought that was pretty good.
• 8:21
  Anyway, long and short, the next minute I've got the Honda, Yamaha, everyone wanting to ride.
• 8:27
  had me ride their bike so the first time I rode the bike to answer the question was was a Yamaha at their test circuit in Hamamatsu which is a pretty daunting test circuit to be honest it's fast and it's cut through the hills you know with the you know enscarpments and you know no run off in a lot of places and fast turns and I went quite well actually I think I went quicker than well I know I went quicker than what the lap record was but then I crashed coming out of the chicane just with the
• 8:56
  with the unforgivingness of the 500 basically, just loaded it up with too much gas before it loaded it up coming out of a turn.
• 9:07
  And just the learning things with a 250 production bike, you could just gas it up with the 500.
• 9:12
  There was no way no one you could do that.
• 9:14
  You had to sort of let the...
• 9:16
  let the wheels catch up with the throttle essentially because the acceleration was good, but if you loaded it with too much fuel, it'd want to burn that fuel and it'd just turn the back wheel into a spinning machine and you couldn't catch it.
• 9:31
  And I hadn't learnt at that point in time to use the clutch to get rid of the wheel spin.
• 9:35
  It was rolling out of the throttle, it wouldn't work once it had a gut full of fuel.
• 9:39
  So I crashed, hurt myself fairly well.
• 9:43
  and then hobbled into Honda the next day to check out their facility at HRC.
• 9:48
  And a day or two later, we were in Mount Fuji.
• 9:51
  I was racing with Yamaha.
• 9:53
  I think I still won the race, but I'd signed for Honda in the back of a little high-ice van or something.
• 10:00
  Behind the pits, the Yamaha pit.
• 10:03
  You mentioned before about Kevin McGee.
• 10:06
  I mean, when you were on the grid of that first GP in 89, mega names back then made Freddie Spencer, Kevin Schwantz, Wayne Rainey, Eddie Lawson.
• 10:15
  You mentioned there fellow Aussies, Wayne Gardner and McGee.
• 10:19
  You've never struck me as the kind to be overawed by people like that.
• 10:23
  But when you got there, was there a sense of, you know, far out, this is the big league?
• 10:27
  And how did you feel about that?
• 10:30
  Absolutely.
• 10:30
  I think I've mentioned before, I didn't really have much of an idea of road racing at all before I got into it.
• 10:38
  It never excited me.
• 10:40
  I didn't think it would be that exciting.
• 10:41
  Motocross, dirt track was all I was interested in.
• 10:45
  So I didn't really have much of a following until I started road racing myself, but didn't really understand the level that these guys were competing at.
• 10:54
  In the national races here in Australia, I was winning and winning relatively easy.
• 10:59
  Then I'd done superbike and won those things relatively easily.
• 11:04
  Then I was put on a 500, which was one, as I say, it slapped me down as soon as I thought I was going well, just to wake me up.
• 11:13
  And then hop in a race with those guys and the depth of the field, you know, even back then, you know, you've got everyone, everyone like myself from different nations in there racing and with experience and things they were doing with the bikes.
• 11:29
  I was like, wow, I don't know whether I can actually do these type of things.
• 11:31
  So, you know, they're pretty impressive, you know.
• 11:34
  You could sort of keep them in sight for a lap or two and then they just slowly disappear, you know.
• 11:42
  So it really took another level to push myself to try and stay with them.
• 11:46
  But it was a daunting prospect.
• 11:50
  to come back to Australia with my tail between my legs and put my hand up and just go back, well, I know I can ride a superbike.
• 11:59
  And I knew that, actually, when I'd test.
• 12:01
  I'd be on the 589 and go and test for the eight-hour, and I'd be quicker or quicker than those guys on those bikes.
• 12:07
  So that really convinced me, and it was...
• 12:11
  And it drove home the fact that, yeah, I can ride the bike.
• 12:15
  It's just I can't ride one of those things.
• 12:18
  So I just need to sort of focus in on the areas where I'm weak.
• 12:22
  And really that's what I did.
• 12:27
  Towards the end of 89, I felt like I was getting on top of the bike, you know, especially after I'd lost my finger at the Suzuka 8-hour in 89.
• 12:35
  And that gave me time to reflect on what I need to be doing, how I need to prepare myself a little bit better.
• 12:40
  I came back for the race in 89.
• 12:42
  in the final race, I should say, in 89 in Brazil.
• 12:46
  And I can't remember the one, two, three, but it was Swans, Rainy, Blossom and myself.
• 12:52
  It could have been some other way around, but I know I didn't.
• 12:54
  I was in fourth.
• 12:56
  And that felt, you know, OK, well...
• 12:57
  you know things are things are starting to progress and then the off-season in testing all went my way and the Japanese started to follow my my lead with development so that helped immensely and and from there on in it started to really things started falling my way but back back in those days also there was there was different levels of number one bike number two bike and also levels in tires and
• 13:21
  So the number one riders in each factory team would get level one tyres and the rest of the field would have to qualify into a certain position to be able to get one of those tyres for qualifying for one session in qualifying.
• 13:35
  So things have levelled out a bit since those days.
• 13:39
  But really we come towards the middle of 1990.
• 13:46
  The Japanese were on my side and recognised that the development...
• 13:52
  direction of what I was taking the bike was the right way.
• 13:56
  And equally, again, I'd threatened to go and sign for Suzuki.
• 14:00
  I didn't actually finish off.
• 14:01
  I ended up getting out of the Suzuki LOI, saying that I had some superstition and seen myself crash and hurt myself on a Suzuki.
• 14:09
  I got out of that.
• 14:10
  So anyway, they were back wanting to sign me again for the end of 1990.
• 14:14
  So I used that to get Honda to bump me up to level one equipment.
• 14:20
  And pretty much from that race on, I started winning.
• 14:24
  And so then I knew, OK, well, I can ride these things.
• 14:27
  You know, I won that race in Hungary.
• 14:29
  And then the next race was here in Philippa Island.
• 14:32
  I nearly won that.
• 14:32
  And Wayne Gardner just pipped me in the end, you know.
• 14:38
  So from there on in, things just really started heading my way.
• 14:41
  You were responsible for, you know, a good chunk of the...
• 14:45
  the success story that is the NSR 500.
• 14:48
  In bike racing terms, fans still hold that bike in really high esteem today.
• 14:55
  It changed a lot.
• 14:56
  You finessed it a lot from, I guess, the time you first started riding it to when you ended your career.
• 15:01
  But what was the early version like to ride, and how did you manhandle the thing?
• 15:06
  Yeah.
• 15:08
  It was scary, to be honest.
• 15:10
  I mentioned earlier about the Yamaha, and it really had a bit of a lag in the throttle.
• 15:15
  The Honda had great carburation.
• 15:16
  It was really connected, the throttle to the rear wheel, but it didn't turn, it didn't stop, it didn't, you know, it'd lean over but go straight ahead, you know, so it was really weird and...
• 15:29
  and it really had no feel whatsoever, whereas the Yamaha felt very similar to the other Yamaha, whether it be a factory racing four-stroke or a production bike.
• 15:39
  It had a similar feel to it, and I think today it's very similar.
• 15:43
  You see the Yamaha's quite nimble.
• 15:44
  I think they can do a lot more than some of the other bikes in turns and the way they can get back, but I think more so back then with the two-strokes.
• 15:53
  The Honda was just a scary piece of machinery.
• 15:58
  And every year, basically, young engineers would just have a clean sheet of paper and start developing again.
• 16:05
  It was almost like they didn't have it.
• 16:07
  Other than the brain or the engine of the machine, the rest of it was just thrown out.
• 16:13
  And the 88 bike was the first one I'd tested, and that was...
• 16:24
  You know, had a great engine.
• 16:26
  It revved quite high, but, you know, had nothing really down low.
• 16:30
  But it just didn't turn, didn't stop, didn't do anything.
• 16:33
  So, you know, I think Gardner finished second in the championship that year, but, you know, he was pretty good to do that, I think.
• 16:39
  The 89 bike wasn't much better.
• 16:42
  I don't know where the development went on that one, but having Eddie Lawson join Honda in 89 was, I think, the best thing what could have happened for the NSR.
• 16:51
  And then myself, you know, I think with the experience he had, the little experience I had, but both coming from Yamaha, both saying similar things of how we'd like the bike to go, you know, that's the development for the 1990.
• 17:04
  Honda seemed to head in that direction.
• 17:06
  And as I say, at the end of 89, when we're doing a lot of development in Japan...
• 17:12
  Lawson had re-signed for Yamaha, so he'd gone.
• 17:16
  But that's when they started, the Japanese, that is, started following my lead with development because my feedback was very similar to Eddie's.
• 17:27
  And really that was, I guess, the bones of what ended up being that NSR for really the next decade.
• 17:35
  Things had changed, the steering rate, the engine heights, the...
• 17:39
  the rigidities, the whole bunch of different scenarios of the chassis side of things and also the engine.
• 17:44
  But, you know, and I think Wayne Gardner, you know, he seemed to like something that would just fall over.
• 17:53
  Maybe that was because that was what his...
• 17:56
  That was the way he grew up with the bike, I guess.
• 17:59
  But he'd have the engine really low, and so the thing would lean in quite easy, but it wouldn't turn with all the weight down so low.
• 18:07
  So even there in 1990, he'd run a different chassis than myself.
• 18:13
  I'd have the engine up higher, and also the steering head up higher.
• 18:16
  He'd have everything down lower.
• 18:18
  You know, so it'd turn in.
• 18:20
  It'd turn from left to right easy, but it actually wouldn't turn.
• 18:23
  You know, it wouldn't for me anyway.
• 18:25
  And so, you know, pull it up a little bit heavier to get up and over, but once it got up and over, it'd want to turn.
• 18:32
  And then slowly had to change the steering head angle to help it also turn rather than be like a bit of a speedway bike where it's just up and down and didn't actually want to, when you'd lean it over, the wheel didn't actually want to turn in.
• 18:44
  So there was, you know, that was swing arm pivots with the whole bunch of different sides of things and then also the suspension because the suspension is equally as important as the chassis.
• 18:57
  So, you know, thankfully...
• 19:00
  And I don't know whether riding T50 Proddy bikes gave me that insight into just feedback, but I never tried to be too technical.
• 19:09
  I'd just give the feedback of what I wanted the bike to do.
• 19:12
  I didn't tell them that I think we should change to this spring or we need to adjust that like this.
• 19:18
  I'd be speaking with...
• 19:21
  Jeremy Burgess and the chassis engineers and the engine engineers just telling them what I'd like, you know, and what it's not doing, you know, and again, just not complicating the process.
• 19:33
  And I think that was, for them, quite easy to understand, you know, instead of somebody coming in and saying, we need two clicks of preload here, we need to change the oil level, we need to, you know, change the material here.
• 19:43
  It's like, what?
• 19:44
  We're the engineers.
• 19:46
  So I think just that basic understanding
• 19:51
  to dilute that down even further and give it to the engineers into something they could then digest and take back and develop.
• 20:02
  So the bike between there and the mid-90s developed...
• 20:07
  in a much more user-friendly rider bike, which then became the NSR, which then everyone decided they need to ride, but there was still only one winning.
• 20:18
  And that was, you know, I think mainly because I was the one developing.
• 20:22
  It was built for me, so everyone really was riding my bike.
• 20:27
  The work with JB, I want to get to that.
• 20:29
  I've spoken to him earlier in this podcast series.
• 20:31
  He describes you as one of the most determined people that, you know, he's ever met, really.
• 20:38
  It looked like, from the outside looking in, that you guys really complemented each other's strong points.
• 20:43
  And he wasn't just someone who understood the bike.
• 20:47
  He understood the rider too, didn't he?
• 20:50
  And that was his strength, you know, and still would be today if he was there.
• 20:54
  But I think I mentioned it just a moment ago.
• 20:57
  I think that's the best way is to try and not to overcomplicate it, you know.
• 21:02
  And I think that's what a lot of young guys, they get lost trying to complicate it, you know.
• 21:07
  And it's pretty basic, you know.
• 21:09
  If you're driving your car, you know, you've done a bit of racing and whatever.
• 21:13
  But if you're driving your car down the road and you feel the wheel sort of wobbling around a little bit, you know, it's...
• 21:19
  You know, you'll get out and, OK, the nuts are off it.
• 21:21
  That's pretty easy.
• 21:22
  Otherwise, you go into the workshop and tell them what it's doing.
• 21:26
  The wheels, it feels like the wheels are robbing around and they'll find it.
• 21:30
  So that was really the same sort of thing as what I do, you know.
• 21:32
  Well, it's not doing this and it feels like that, you know.
• 21:35
  And I think that was just easy and being honest.
• 21:37
  And there was still data back then, very, very primitive compared to what it is these days, but still enough data that they could recognise whether you're full of shit or not.
• 21:47
  And JB was equally, you know, he'd get onto that straight away.
• 21:52
  You come in and speak with JB.
• 21:54
  and you tell him what to do and he because he was a rider as well and it was easy to understand you know what's what's happening he'd go back and have a bit of a think about it and go yeah well I think it's doing this and then instruct you know the mechanics working there was two on each one on each sorry there was two bikes and there was two mechanics on each bike so one set for per bike and so he'd instruct the guys to to do whatever they're doing and then
• 22:21
  He'd relay a lot of that information or hand over his sheets to the engineers and away we go.
• 22:27
  But he had that, again, he'd try to keep it as simple as possible.
• 22:31
  He never tried to overcomplicate it, try and re-engineer the bike.
• 22:35
  A lot of engineers also...
• 22:37
  They think they've got the ideal set up.
• 22:40
  They've never ridden, especially at that level, and they'll try and set the bike up for the rider.
• 22:45
  So there was a lot of them that were probably still in the paddock, just too many egos.
• 22:51
  JB didn't have any ego.
• 22:52
  He was confident in what he was doing, but he just...
• 22:58
  He just had the knack of knowing what you wanted and was able to put it in there.
• 23:01
  And I think at the end, because he'd been through so many different scenarios over so many Grands Prix, the feedback, whether it was, again, I can't talk for the other riders and the way they gave feedback, but the feedback I was giving him, I'd say something, he'd know exactly what I meant.
• 23:19
  Are the bikes doing this?
• 23:21
  I'd like it to be doing that, you know?
• 23:23
  he'd go, okay, we've had that somewhere else.
• 23:26
  He'd have a look back through his...
• 23:27
  He used to carry...
• 23:30
  It was well before iPads or computers or whatever, he'd have documents from whenever.
• 23:37
  And be able to go back through and go, okay, we had similar sort of problems like this, this is how we fixed it.
• 23:42
  And was able to get on top of it.
• 23:43
  But that was his strength, not having an ego, not thinking that he knew better than the rider.
• 23:51
  And not believing that, you know, he's a be-all and end-all and you're going to ride my bike, you know, which, as I say, a few of these guys out there think that, you know, it's my bike, you'll ride it, you know, you're only the guy that paid to ride the thing.
• 24:03
  Mark Marquez still largely has made the same group of people that have been with him since the early days in Moto3.
• 24:09
  That team, you were big on forming that team as well.
• 24:11
  And I guess, did that really start with JB coming across in sort of 1990 and that core group of guys that really were instrumental in the background in your career, weren't they?
• 24:21
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 24:22
  JB was 89 the first season I went in.
• 24:25
  I had the opportunity or the option to run Yatsushiro, who was Gardner's teammate in 88, who I'd replaced in 89.
• 24:36
  Dave Cullen or Radar, they used to call him.
• 24:39
  He was their first choice, but Gardner didn't keep JB after 88 for whatever reason.
• 24:47
  He took another guy, Stuart Shenton, so they said, which one do you want?
• 24:50
  Do you want JB or Radar?
• 24:53
  And I said, well, why can't I have them both?
• 24:56
  And then there was a couple of other guys in the team there as well, and pretty much Radar left the end of 89.
• 25:06
  I can't remember whether he went to one of the other teams or not, but...
• 25:12
  But pretty much from there on in, there was the same cool people all the way through.
• 25:18
  And they were there for a number of years.
• 25:22
  While Rossi remained at Honda, it was pretty much the same group of people with him, which were my old guys.
• 25:29
  And, you know, I'd said to Honda, you know, at that point in time I was working closely with Honda, and I knew that he was thinking of leaving, you better sign these guys up, JB and the other guys, because, you know, he'll take them with him.
• 25:45
  And, you know, that was...
• 25:47
  Their response was, we know racing.
• 25:49
  And I thought, oh, really?
• 25:50
  So that was the start of the finish for me with Honda as well because obviously I can't have any input any longer because they rotate the people around in Honda that often anyway.
• 26:00
  So my role had changed after a few years.
• 26:04
  But, you know, I knew that was going to be the case because that was what I was going to do every time I was thinking of leaving to go somewhere else.
• 26:12
  So, and that's what, you know, Rossi did when he left Honda and even when he's left Yamaha and then back to...
• 26:20
  But, so, you know, for Mark and for all these guys, having that people you can trust and rely on and you don't have to build those relationships back up.
• 26:29
  You know, the only, you know, your office has changed.
• 26:31
  You know, the environment doesn't need to change.
• 26:33
  And I think that's just easier for all these guys to just evolve and keep progressing forward.
• 26:40
  I want to digress for one quick second here and have a little bit of a laugh for a moment.
• 26:44
  The Interswil conglomerate.
• 26:46
  You don't need to know the details of our operations.
• 26:49
  Rip a bunch of blokes.
• 26:50
  I reckon Daryl Beattie told me a yarn once about coming around Corporate Hill and they may have been nude drinking a beer and enjoying the racing.
• 27:00
  They were a lot of fun, successful guys, but did they play an important part in the background and in helping you along the way as well?
• 27:07
  It wasn't just all fun?
• 27:09
  No, absolutely.
• 27:09
  That was, go back a few steps about when I was...
• 27:16
  Going from production bikes, so from that Suzuki 250, I fell out with the dealer who had given that bike to me.
• 27:27
  And then the next ride was these guys which were Team Camo, which turned into Interswil.
• 27:34
  And there were three guys, or four guys, in fact, and then I was a fifth, but riding Yamaha R's,
• 27:43
  rz 500 and um so they were just a bunch of you know happy guys out of brisbane really and they were financially supporting me which was fantastic so and then once i'd moved on it was team camo so camouflage would be well before it was in fashion you know we'd ride with this bike painted up in camouflage and
• 28:06
  And I'd have a camouflaged suit over my leather suit, which was flapping around, just to try and gain a bit of attention.
• 28:11
  It worked, but also winning helped.
• 28:13
  And then once I'd moved on, started racing internationally, with both Yamaha and then Honda.
• 28:24
  Basically, these guys didn't mind a beer and I was going international, so into Swill.
• 28:33
  Unfortunately, they didn't decide to then start backing another young guy.
• 28:39
  They loved racing, but they didn't know anybody in racing.
• 28:42
  Michael Dowson, who was my teammate in 88, this was well before that, he'd suggested that they contact me.
• 28:52
  because he thought I was a good prospect for a young guy coming through that perhaps wouldn't cost him too much money.
• 28:59
  So it was a good story, but I'm still in touch with the majority of those guys today.
• 29:05
  In 92, you're leading the series by what's now become MotoGP, the 500cc World Championship, by 60 points, more than that in fact.
• 29:12
  And you crash in practice doing some pretty serious damage to your right leg.
• 29:17
  You shared this with me recently.
• 29:18
  It came very, very close to amputation, didn't it?
• 29:22
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 29:23
  Initially, I didn't know how close, in fact.
• 29:27
  Was it 24 hours?
• 29:28
  It was almost that close, wasn't it?
• 29:30
  I believe so.
• 29:31
  But the problem with the leg, I think it all happened during the surgery, but the trauma from the injury and the swelling, they didn't allow for the swelling and closed all the leg back up after inserting some plates and screws.
• 29:51
  and didn't allow for some swelling and then put it basically in a cast and then raised it up in the air.
• 29:57
  So it didn't have anywhere to swell.
• 29:59
  So essentially all the swelling then went back in and shut the veins down, which, you know, is an...
• 30:09
  a known, I guess, by-product of these type of injuries, lower limb injuries and maybe other limbs, I'm not sure, but compartment syndrome.
• 30:19
  But, you know, Dr. Costa, the one who ended up saving my leg, knew exactly what was going to happen because he could see also through the surgery the way they'd, before they closed me back up, they hadn't done the right things in his mind.
• 30:31
  Again, I'm not a surgeon, so I don't really know.
• 30:34
  And haven't really bothered to look into the exact details.
• 30:38
  But he knew that something was going fairly bad, so he kept checking on me.
• 30:44
  He'd been thrown out of the surgery during the...
• 30:49
  the actual procedure when he was concerned there.
• 30:52
  And then the next day when he'd come and see me, the concerns were being realised for him, what he had.
• 30:57
  Then he was kicked out when he went and tried to find some doctors to try and get them to address the situation.
• 31:03
  He was thrown out of the hospital again.
• 31:05
  Anyway, long and short, apparently he'd told Costa that... Cos Costa had gone back to Italy, but he'd concerned about...
• 31:14
  my leg, and apparently this doctor had said to Dr. Costa that you may not have to worry about any longer because if there's no improvement in the next 24 hours, I'm going to have to amputate his leg.
• 31:27
  So that's...
• 31:30
  Thankfully, Costa organised a medical aircraft to come and get me out of there and also picked up Kevin Schwantz at the time.
• 31:40
  It was a fairly weird weekend.
• 31:42
  There was a lot of crashing happening that weekend.
• 31:45
  but Schwantz had at least dislocated his hip, he may have done some more damage, but he'd asked this same doctor for some medication.
• 31:55
  The doctor was reluctant to give him any medication to ease the pain because it was self-inflicted injuries.
• 32:00
  He's got better things to do than to look after people that put themselves in that position and taking up his time.
• 32:07
  So, you know, so I essentially took myself and Schwanz back down to Bologna and then really sort of set about saving my leg, you know.
• 32:17
  So that was, you know, even at that time I didn't really know the position I was in until, you know, he was frantically trying to work.
• 32:25
  I mean, number one, apparently my blood was that thin, it was like water, so he needed to sort of address that because he was concerned about my internal organs.
• 32:34
  and then get on to trying to get some blood flow and oxygen back into the leg and then go from there.
• 32:42
  So it was a fairly eye-opening experience for the next sort of 10 days, really, of everything, what was going on, and not understanding any Italian and, you know...
• 32:53
  shit flying everywhere and arms flying and people coming rushing in with you know digging out bits of flesh and needles flying everywhere it was you know pretty pretty good but you know i've got to be very very thankful for costa for for taking that time and interest in me to to save uh to save my leg and um you know because it could have gone the other way so so easy that's definitely it was unique what he did in terms of plastering the the legs together and and you know helping
• 33:22
  from one from the goodness from one to help i guess that the other but but how close did you think you know this is game over or did you think did you think you know i'm gonna stop now or that never into your mind this is before you'd even won the first of your world championships
• 33:37
  Yeah, no, I was leading the championship that year, so, you know, I knew that by that time I well and truly knew that I was capable of riding the bikes, and it never entered my mind even at that point in time, you know, that, you know, there's gaping holes in my leg.
• 33:54
  I could see the bone.
• 33:55
  I could see where the plates and screws were put in and, you know, waiting for flesh to grow back before they could then place grafts and so on across them.
• 34:04
  So it...
• 34:06
  But, you know, the desire was always to get back on the bike and compete.
• 34:09
  So it was, you know, there wasn't a question mark in my mind.
• 34:15
  This is Greg Rust and you're listening to Rusty's Garage.
• 34:18
  More with Mick Doohan in a moment.
• 34:22
  In this series, I speak to some of the most passionate riders, drivers, designers and collectors I know.
• 34:28
  It mightn't look like it, but at times, mad Mike Wadette is actually looking for perfection when he drifts his fire-breathing rotary-powered Mazdas.
• 34:38
  And this global superstar seems to catch the uncatchable slide.
• 34:43
  It's really about just making that car an extension of your body.
• 34:46
  And then once you've got that, it's like you can almost just place the car and throw it as hard as you can, and you find the absolute extremes.
• 34:56
  And as a driver, I think what's the scariest part is the technology...
• 35:00
  It's progressing faster than the drivers.
• 35:02
  Like, it's seriously scary to drive these cars these days.
• 35:07
  With drifting as much as it looks like that we want the cars to be slippery so we can slide around the track, we're actually trying to get as much grip as possible.
• 35:15
  Listen to the full episode with Mad Mike here on Rusty's Garage.
• 35:18
  Rusty's Garage
• 35:24
  panel vans, a hybrid between a van and a car, popular in the 1970s.
• 35:29
  Famous for its ability to easily store surfboards, camping gear, and also where most 1980s babies were made.
• 35:36
  Necessity is the mother of invention.
• 35:39
  The boys and you come up with a system to help because the right ankle wasn't really then up to the rigours of braking, wasn't it?
• 35:46
  And you came up with a little hand-based system for rear braking.
• 35:50
  No, that's right.
• 35:52
  My right ankle, you know, the injury, the brake was very low down near my ankle.
• 35:59
  And...
• 36:00
  Because of all the tissue and nerve damage after this compartment syndrome, I'd functionally lost the ability to use my right ankle.
• 36:11
  And it's now functionally fused.
• 36:14
  It's not physically fused, but I lost the ability to use my ankle.
• 36:20
  So the brake is situated, everybody who rides a motorcycle now on the right foot and, you know, especially with the two strokes, they didn't have any engine braking and, you know, a rear brake's quite important, especially in the wet, but also to balance the bike and into turns and help it turn as well, so...
• 36:41
  So, you know, on the first few rides back in 92, it was quite daunting, especially, you know, in the wet with only a front brake, you know, one leg essentially because I couldn't feel the leg and it was only just hanging in there even though I had it.
• 36:56
  It wasn't much of a leg.
• 36:59
  So it wasn't until the beginning of 89, sorry, the beginning of 93,
• 37:08
  during testing that, you know, we're trying to work out how can I, where can I adapt a rear brake to try and make it work?
• 37:16
  Can I use, maybe try and use a bit of a heel, something to try and work it that way, but that wasn't going to be able to work.
• 37:24
  And then started thinking about a rear brake on the handlebar
• 37:30
  So I used like a little lever above, just above the clutch.
• 37:37
  So like I said earlier, you use a clutch mainly, it's the old traction control.
• 37:42
  Now they've got all traction control, but the clutch was traction control.
• 37:46
  So you needed to have a finger on the clutch all the time.
• 37:49
  And, you know, so it's pretty hard to independently use two fingers, a brake and the clutch.
• 37:55
  So at Suzuka, the first race of the season was the first time I'd really got to test it out, and especially it's still a conscious decision having to be able to use the brake.
• 38:06
  you know, rather than on my foot.
• 38:08
  And up through the S-curves at the back of the pits of Suzuka, you know, you're wanting to have the clutch because in case it spins up, but equally you want a bit of brake, helping turn it into the turn.
• 38:20
  So I worked out real quick that, you know, this is, it's a joke and it's not working at all.
• 38:26
  And I rode around with the rest of the Grand Prix and working out what could I do and how hard am I actually hanging on to this bike.
• 38:34
  and worked out that perhaps I can use my thumbs.
• 38:37
  I rode around for about half of the race with my thumb hanging off the left handlebar.
• 38:43
  And then you said like a nudge bar.
• 38:50
  I came in from that race and I sort of mentioned that, well, that was a waste of time, that little lever that we had there to use in as a brake, but maybe we can use like an ATV throttle application or a jet ski throttle application, but on the opposite side and use that as a thumb brake.
• 39:06
  So the Honda engineers came up, they designed a master cylinder for the left handlebar, and they built the caliper as well to just get the ratios right.
• 39:17
  And from there on in, I was on the podium the next weekend.
• 39:20
  It was a very basic system and worked well.
• 39:24
  Some people still use it today.
• 39:26
  Brembo actually offer it now as a product.
• 39:31
  But, because a lot of people used to have trouble, you know, in right turns and so on, getting their foot on the braking.
• 39:38
  Even today you see people with their foot hanging off it, you know, because they're helping balance the weight of the bike these days.
• 39:45
  So the rear brake on the handlebar sort of helps.
• 39:47
  But, you know, it was one of those things that was a necessity.
• 39:51
  It's a bit like if you're right-handed and you lose your right hand, you'll soon start to use your left hand pretty good.
• 39:58
  So it wasn't long before I adapted the use of that.
• 40:01
  And with that, I equally had to take the rear brake off the foot because if I move forward, my foot moves forward, and so I'd be standing on the rear brake.
• 40:14
  So that was also an issue in those early races where I didn't have a rear brake.
• 40:18
  I couldn't use it, but I still had to have it on there.
• 40:21
  You know, equally, I think in 1993, Daryl Beattie and I rode the Suzuka 8-hour and had to have a little device on the rear brake that could detach the actual lever and then put it back on for him.
• 40:37
  So we'd had both the rear brake on the foot and the handlebar.
• 40:42
  So it was a necessity, but it worked well, and as I say, it's still in use today.
• 40:46
  How much did that first world title ultimately mean, given everything that you'd been through to get that first one, and it would be the first of five straight?
• 40:55
  How satisfying was that?
• 40:58
  It was a relief, you know, because I had been close in 91, and then 92 with what happened, it was a...
• 41:07
  you know a bit of a disaster I'd been leading had such a good lead and then things fell over you know being my leg nearly losing that 93 was a recovery year pretty much riding the majority of the year with a broken leg and then
• 41:22
  And then 94, you know, so until it was actually secured across the line and the championship was actually in my pocket, you know, I never really thought, you know, that it was a done deal.
• 41:35
  But the relief that, you know, I'd finally reached what I'd joined the MotoGP for had been achieved was great.
• 41:43
  But then the work began because I'd always said if I'd won one, I wanted to win two.
• 41:47
  and I wanted to win them back-to-back just so there wasn't any luck involved.
• 41:50
  It's pretty hard to get lucky twice, especially in two years in a row.
• 41:56
  So I put myself under a bit of pressure and made quite a number of mistakes early on in 1995, trying to actually...
• 42:04
  do that thankfully i did but i mean i had to get my head back straight for a little while after the first few the the dominance of 97 was remarkable mate 12 of the 15 races you win you've kept a bike from each of the years of your your world title success which i would imagine was was difficult in itself to convince the japanese to do that is the 97 the bike for you or is is there you know is there one that you've got a really close affinity with for a particular reason
• 42:32
  Look, 97 without a doubt I think is just due to the fact.
• 42:36
  I think it was a little bit different in the firing order than the rest of the Hondas and that was only for mentally trying to mess with the other rider's head more than anything else.
• 42:50
  But, you know, it had good, short, sharp power, so it was exciting to ride and didn't have any power difference than the other Hondas on the grid, just the way the engine worked.
• 43:05
  But it was a good combination, you know, it was a little bit detuned from the 96.
• 43:09
  The chassis improvements worked well, and...
• 43:13
  Everything worked well.
• 43:14
  I was on top of my game.
• 43:16
  Certainly, 1997 was the best bike I'd ridden up until that time.
• 43:24
  Then, 1998, it went to full unleaded fuel.
• 43:28
  It was probably the worst one.
• 43:31
  It rode well, but it just had no power compared to anything I'd ridden prior to that.
• 43:35
  You mentioned mind games there before.
• 43:37
  Is that something that came naturally to you?
• 43:40
  And it's, when you look at Valentino Rossi now and the key guys, it's an important part of the success of the game, isn't it?
• 43:47
  Well, I think it is.
• 43:48
  You know, I think in the sport, in any sport it is.
• 43:51
  And, you know...
• 43:54
  How did it come about?
• 43:54
  I'm not sure.
• 43:55
  I think the more determined you get, the more you focus in on what you're trying to achieve.
• 44:00
  You just pick up on little things.
• 44:02
  So it is more practice working out.
• 44:05
  You do little things that perhaps upset people.
• 44:07
  And then you continue to play on that.
• 44:16
  Conversely, that's why I never tried to let anybody know where I was because once you let somebody know what's upsetting you or making you happy, you've got something to work with.
• 44:27
  So I was pretty much poker-faced the whole time just so that nobody had any way of getting to me.
• 44:34
  But equally, I'd use that to my advantage, playing with them.
• 44:39
  Crash in damp conditions in 1999 would ultimately...
• 44:44
  bring an end to an incredible career, mate.
• 44:46
  You've got a funny story about being thrown off the bike midair and I think seeing a journo crash as well, is that right?
• 44:53
  Tell us about that.
• 44:54
  Yeah, well, I didn't see him.
• 44:55
  I was, I don't know whether I was passed out, but I certainly wasn't in a position to be able to do much or focus on too much.
• 45:04
  But no, I'm told and...
• 45:07
  that while i'm going through the air well when i did crash the little final crash in in in uh in 99 in spain um i it i touched the white line with the rear wheel fairly quickly in a in a spot you normally uh you don't don't crash i'd just gone between two turns and i don't know whether it was one two three four between four and five in in a ref and um and um
• 45:32
  And so there's no protection on the walls.
• 45:35
  But I just touched the wide line before turning back to go through turn five, I guess it is, and the back wheel hit it, and it flicked me off that quick.
• 45:43
  And normally when you crash, you're trying to save it, and then it sort of all happens.
• 45:47
  So it happens quite slow.
• 45:48
  This just flicked me that quick.
• 45:50
  It was like hitting a sheet of ice.
• 45:53
  and you know I'm upside down looking down and it's like oh shit I'm off this thing you know that was and then from there I don't remember too much to be honest you know that was the last recollection I had and then but I landed feet first into the gravel so that was what done some damage to my left leg and because my right ankle doesn't move that's really what all the
• 46:13
  the load got transferred through from my ankle straight through to the knee and just over extended that and blew that apart and then that springboarded me into the wall and at the same time there's a perimeter road on each side of that circuit and apparently a journalist on a scooter was running around to
• 46:33
  to either watch or take some photographs or whatever, and he's focused on me going through the air and hitting walls and rode straight into it.
• 46:43
  The bike's going one way, his head's at 90 degree angle the other way, and he's gone straight into it like a lamppost.
• 46:50
  you know, even if it was only 20k, but apparently he's done himself some good damage without a helmet on.
• 46:56
  So there's a team of guys working on him and a team of guys working on me on the other side of the fence, track side.
• 47:02
  So, you know, but it's quite...
• 47:05
  I don't think he actually really hurt himself, but, I mean, it's still quite a funny story when I hurt it a few weeks after.
• 47:14
  You went to, I think, San Francisco.
• 47:17
  Just explain how that injury brought an end ultimately to it and how you felt because you were determined to come back in 2000 and from a sport point of view, we would have ultimately loved to have seen McDoan and the emerging Valentino Rossi compete against one another.
• 47:34
  That would have been huge, mate, and sadly that wasn't to be.
• 47:37
  No, that's right, but he was going to be my teammate in 2000, in a team that I was putting together with that Honda supporting it.
• 47:48
  So it would have been a satellite team with factory equipment.
• 47:52
  So then when I wasn't able to actually compete, that's when Honda started to get a bit concerned that I was going to run a team with their equipment alongside them, a bit like Kenny Roberts was doing with Yamaha back in the day.
• 48:06
  So, anyway, but... How did the injury bring a stop to it?
• 48:10
  And they tried some quite revolutionary things, didn't they?
• 48:13
  That's right.
• 48:13
  So, you know, when I got to San Francisco, so I left Spain straight away to get out of there to go to the US and I was in the Stanford area in Northern California.
• 48:25
  And the surgeons, I had some injuries, some upper body, upper limb, arm and shoulder injuries as well.
• 48:33
  So...
• 48:34
  And so I had the doctors working there, I had doctors working on the lower limbs, had cadaver grafts put in the left knee, and the right knee, which was the tibial plateau, was broken into three, and just below that it was palpitated into about 17 pieces.
• 48:52
  and they'd offered to use this bone substance, I don't know what it was called, but they'd only used it in things like the heel or some other really smaller areas with still a bit of load-bearing, but not as much as what the knee had.
• 49:08
  They thought it may work in there, and if I was game, they were game, so I said, why not?
• 49:16
  Unfortunately, you couldn't really see the...
• 49:19
  on an x-ray, you know, with this bone glue in there, everything just looked white like this table.
• 49:26
  So they couldn't see if it was healed or if it's healing or it just looked really solid and especially with the plates and screws that they had in there as well.
• 49:34
  They thought, no problem, you can start going again and start weight-bearing on that leg and start training and getting yourself ready.
• 49:43
  You know, I had intended to come back for Phillip Island the end of the year.
• 49:47
  And, you know, things were going okay for the first few days, but then, you know, then some of the screws started to break and then the leg collapsed, so it just basically fell over.
• 50:00
  And then, so at that point in time, I knew I'd have to rebuild the leg and put this Ilazarov external fixator back on, which I'd had earlier in my career.
• 50:12
  to one straighten the leg and then grow the to get the length back in it but you know you know the the nice job that they'd put doing the tibial plateau everything you know was now screwed up it remains the same today but but this this external fixator device put my leg back together but but but with that
• 50:34
  It was now going to be August the following year before my leg was going to be strong enough to compete.
• 50:41
  So then 2001 will be the next year I was going to be able to run for a championship.
• 50:45
  So that's when I decided that, you know, it may be a good time to just retire now, you know.
• 50:51
  I've had a good run.
• 50:53
  I did 10 years, five world titles, and it's time to just, you know, hang up the boots, so to speak.
• 50:59
  So...
• 51:00
  So, you know, on reflection, it was also a good way to leave the sport because, you know, I got with what happened with Valentino and Honda, you know, I got put into a position of general manager of racing for HRC and started doing a little, a few things with Dorner.
• 51:19
  And so that gave me a focus away from just the competition.
• 51:24
  And so by the time I was, you know, the end of 2000, I was, you know, I could ride, but, you know, I was almost already, the mindset had shifted into working with the team and doing a few other things.
• 51:38
  So by the time I was physically capable of competing, I was over it.
• 51:42
  So, you know, it would have been good to park the bike rather than crash it and leave the track in an ambulance.
• 51:46
  But I mean, in hindsight, it was actually probably a good way to retire because otherwise I might still be out there racing with Rossi.
• 51:54
  We would have loved that.
• 51:54
  I know that didn't come to pass.
• 51:56
  Most bike racers I've ever spoken to say that nothing else in life gives the same exhilaration, mate.
• 52:03
  Was it a hard thing to stop?
• 52:05
  And in the way that you work, were you able to then challenge yourself and channel yourself into things like business to use some of the same things that had been so successful for you in racing and perhaps find a buzz in a different way?
• 52:23
  Without a doubt, you're never going to find anything similar to the racing, but you're fully immersed into it.
• 52:31
  Nothing else matters in life.
• 52:33
  You're a fairly selfish type of person in any sport, I think, at that level.
• 52:38
  You live, eat and breathe the competition.
• 52:43
  They're quite exciting bikes to do, but equally...
• 52:47
  There's a lot of other things that give you excitement in life and doing deals and the downside of a deal going bad isn't as painful but it's just as disappointing.
• 52:58
  And doing something outside of the sport that you've set your mind to and achieve those goals is also quite rewarding.
• 53:07
  I think that was one stage of my life.
• 53:10
  I'm now in another stage.
• 53:11
  Who knows what happens in a bunch of years' time.
• 53:14
  But
• 53:14
  But the tools that I guess took me to those world titles or took me through sport, I've tried to apply to life after sport.
• 53:26
  And, you know, the same commitment, the same dedication and persistence are the things that I still use and also try and continually work with trusted people
• 53:42
  you know and and and listen and learn from from external advisors rather than think that i'm the be all and end all you know i'm confident but i'm but i still can learn a lot and equally when i was racing you know i'd never sit there and think that i can't learn and can't do anything so and i think you need to so so to answer your question yeah i've used a lot of those same skills to to move into a different aspect of my life
• 54:06
  Did you contemplate car racing?
• 54:07
  Because I reckon I can recall going to Norwell, to Paul Morris' driver training complex, and you doing a promotional thing where you drove a supercar, drove his supercar, you drove a Formula One car at one point.
• 54:18
  Did you seriously contemplate that or never really?
• 54:21
  No, not really.
• 54:22
  McLaren used to offer me to drive their car quite often.
• 54:25
  I was never really interested.
• 54:26
  I drove the F1 car.
• 54:28
  When it was Winfield, I had sponsorship from the tobacco company as well.
• 54:33
  And then there was Palmol as well, which was the same company.
• 54:38
  There was Tommy Mackin and Jack Villeneuve and myself were all sponsored in all world championships that year, all world champions that year.
• 54:45
  So we did a bit of a demonstration, that was all.
• 54:49
  And, you know, both Tommy and myself demonstrated how to crash them as well.
• 54:55
  But really...
• 54:56
  You know, it was at the end of the race.
• 54:59
  It was some point anyway.
• 55:01
  So, you know, once I'd spun on the outlap and Tommy did as well, but then he went on and then totaled it.
• 55:09
  But I didn't do that.
• 55:10
  But I only did half a dozen laps in the car and then...
• 55:15
  and then about bloody three hours of press interviews you know so it was more of a press event and then most of those type of f1 invites were all about just the media and still are today all about the media coverage that the teams can get for themselves in the off seasons or whatever but car racing again if i if i if i wanted to go racing
• 55:33
  get back into racing I'd go back two wheels because that's you know what I loved and what I wanted to do and and no matter how good you are in a car you know if you're a couple of tenths off you know you're still a couple of tenths off and
• 55:46
  There's still a couple of tenths off, and if you're, you know, well, no, a couple of tenths over, say, 30, 60 laps is a long way away.
• 55:58
  So, you know, and, you know, you're never going to pick up that race craft that these drivers these days have learnt all the way through karting and the experience, so, you know, why waste your time trying to, you know, and I know losing wouldn't sit well.
• 56:13
  and frustration so there's not too many bike guys who have transitioned to full time car racing yeah the odd race and you do okay and the race of champions you know I've done with Jamie Wincup and a few other guys you know I've all been good fun and I've won a couple of races but you know good 60 second races it's hard to get too far behind you know but a little bit of go karting you know we've done in the past but so I enjoy that side of it but I mean car racing has never been my thing
• 56:42
  During your career, I've seen both sides of McDewan with the press, and I've seen you mellow in later years.
• 56:49
  Did you have a tough time with them?
• 56:52
  Did you just prefer to kind of block it out and focus on the racing during the height of your career?
• 56:57
  How did you find dealing with them?
• 56:59
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 57:01
  I didn't find it that enjoyable just because of the amount of garbage that quite often they'd write.
• 57:08
  So then I got into a position where I could probably, with Honda and with the sponsors, they'd prefer that I do certain segments and others that I could avoid.
• 57:22
  So I played on that as much as possible to minimise the amount of press that I needed to do.
• 57:29
  And, you know, it was more certain segments of the press, more so, you know, a lot of it was all...
• 57:37
  you know, I couldn't be bothered being the tabloid superstar, you know, and I couldn't understand why all that is, what the interest was about.
• 57:46
  But, I mean, I also recognise the press is an important part of the sport, but, you know, the focus for me was more on racing than it was on wanting to be a media superstar.
• 57:57
  Yeah.
• 57:58
  Were you aware of the stuff they were writing, though, or you just tried to block all that out?
• 58:01
  Of course, you know, you're told about it, and you do read some of it, but quite often you just flick through it, you know, and then you just, you know, you'd make a note of who it was.
• 58:15
  and you tend not to speak with them too often if you didn't have to.
• 58:19
  But as I say, today's a little bit different than back then, and there's a lot more social media, a lot more activations going on everywhere, so to try and do what I was doing or even people in F1 were doing at that time is near impossible.
• 58:34
  So they were the best of the both worlds back then.
• 58:37
  You get away with doing enough without being overloaded with media, which it almost is today.
• 58:44
  Are you, it's probably difficult to nominate one rival.
• 58:48
  There were some great rivals along the way.
• 58:51
  Did those rivalries motivate you and is there a standout for you?
• 58:56
  Yeah, look, without a doubt, you know, it has to motivate you.
• 59:00
  And, you know, you'd have, you know, each year there was always somebody different.
• 59:05
  In the early days, you know, Rainey was a consistent punter, you know.
• 59:09
  We spoke at the beginning of this about the different guys, about Rainey, you know, Schwantz, Lawson, etc., etc.,
• 59:17
  You know, super fast, super good, but Rainey was the one, Lawson was sort of towards the end of his career and then he jumped on a Kajiva, wasn't really that competitive.
• 59:27
  Rainey was the one who was consistent.
• 59:29
  Consistent was the guy that, you know, wasn't always the fastest guy, but you know, come Sunday, you know, he was the guy you had to race.
• 59:37
  So they were the guys you'd focus on and try, and how am I going to beat this guy?
• 59:40
  I've got to be consistent like him.
• 59:42
  Lawson equally consistent, but as I say, on the latter part of his career.
• 59:48
  And then things changed.
• 59:52
  Rivals or competitors, I should say, change every year.
• 59:57
  You don't know who's coming through, who's going to be the next guy, a guy who wasn't doing so well the year before.
• 1:00:03
  you know especially as i say back in those days the bikes were fairly difficult to get a get your head around so you couldn't just jump on them and there was very few if any that just jumped on them and went quick you know um you know it took a while for them to get a bit tamer that people would do that you know people come through from super bikes and they'd go back to super bike after a year because you know they could win there and they couldn't do it they didn't you know they didn't want to hang around there any longer
• 1:00:27
  people would get a guest ride you know the likes of the foggaties and and um and other superbike riders of high note and then they'd you know oh we don't want that and they'd hand the bike back you know so so um you know so that's where i say people coming up you know you never know from the year before some people who are sort of somebody you weren't really didn't have them on the horizon all of a sudden you go testing and shit these guys are pretty quick so yeah
• 1:00:51
  But you use that to keep pushing yourself to want to keep improving and keeping ahead of them.
• 1:00:57
  So I always knew that regardless who my competitor was competing against at the time, I need to prepare myself as best as possible.
• 1:01:05
  And you keep pushing yourself higher and harder every year.
• 1:01:08
  So you've got to the point where you don't need to be competing, pushing yourself.
• 1:01:14
  that much and training that much and physically beating yourself up that much, you know, to do it.
• 1:01:20
  But that's the headspace you needed to be in to compete against these guys.
• 1:01:25
  But, you know, competitors and talk about Beatty, you know, Beatty is a bit of a shame that he injured himself when he got out of the sport because without a doubt,
• 1:01:33
  He could have been... For me, he was the most naturally gifted guy that I'd raced against.
• 1:01:43
  He could have gone on and been massively successful.
• 1:01:48
  But unfortunately, again, we've spoken about it previously about luck.
• 1:01:52
  I think a bit of luck and timing and everything falls into place.
• 1:01:55
  But he certainly could ride anything and could ride it well.
• 1:01:59
  who had unfortunately just retired maybe 26, 27, but he could have hung in there for another 10 years.
• 1:02:06
  Talking about Daryl Beattie there, a colleague and friend.
• 1:02:09
  Alex Craville's probably another one.
• 1:02:11
  What about when the threat's from within, mate, when you've got a teammate and the rivalry's pretty intense within the garage?
• 1:02:17
  Yeah, you know, it never really concerned me, you know, from the outset, to be honest, even with, you know, when I was very green jumping on the bike in 89 against Rainey, not Rainey, Lawson and Gardner, you know, I still had to beat them.
• 1:02:36
  So, you know, so that was, again, going back and working on myself, how am I going to do this?
• 1:02:41
  you know, and wanting to get, wanting, again, going a little bit back, backstepping a bit to the old poker face, you know, trying to get as much information out of somebody without letting them know that I'm getting a lot of information out of them and using that to my advantage.
• 1:02:57
  And, um, and equally, you know, as, as...
• 1:03:02
  my career went on and you'd have the people like the Alex Trevilles and whatever, which are utilising all my data and all my information and whatever else, trying to work that to my advantage as well and trying to mess with them more mentally than anything else.
• 1:03:17
  But I never, ever felt that, you know, Mike and my team mate,
• 1:03:23
  or one of my competitors was quicker than or could beat me.
• 1:03:28
  You know, mentally I never, I guess, gave up that belief that I was better than them.
• 1:03:35
  Yeah.
• 1:03:36
  You've moved on in life terms now.
• 1:03:39
  The corporate jet, the corporate aviation business, I guess the love for flying kind of commenced in the latter part of your career in some respects.
• 1:03:47
  And it's become a big thing made from charter to sales to fuel, all sorts of things, hasn't it?
• 1:03:54
  No, that's right.
• 1:03:55
  So that's one aspect of the business these days.
• 1:04:00
  It's most visible.
• 1:04:03
  But I'd bought an aircraft when I was competing in the 90s, really to get myself around.
• 1:04:10
  Flying throughout Europe wasn't easy back then.
• 1:04:13
  It's not easy today.
• 1:04:14
  But equally, I could do appearances in the UK.
• 1:04:17
  I could do and then be back down in Paris and then back down in the south of France all in a day.
• 1:04:23
  and all go testing and then be back home in the afternoon.
• 1:04:26
  So, you know, it was a time machine.
• 1:04:28
  So it would free me up and keep me focused and prepare me better for the next time I needed to go riding.
• 1:04:33
  And equally, today there's people doing the same thing, you know, and people who don't, I think...
• 1:04:39
  are the poorer for it and, you know, the people flying the aircraft are probably poorer for that, but I mean, but physically and mentally, the guys who aren't, you know, investing into their time and preparation are the guys who aren't really at the forefront of it.
• 1:04:55
  So, but really, I got into flying once I stopped competing and got into that side of it.
• 1:05:05
  as a hobby more than anything.
• 1:05:07
  But then, again, when I stopped competing, having the aircraft was great, and it was a luxury rather than a necessity.
• 1:05:17
  But I quite liked that luxury, but it couldn't justify the costs.
• 1:05:23
  So that was when...
• 1:05:25
  I set about perhaps starting a very small charter group to just offset some of the costs.
• 1:05:34
  And from there, it's just, you know, the ripple effect has grown into the property side, which FBOs or private terminals, fixed-base operations, of which we have one here in Melbourne at Essendon, the Platinum Business Aviation Centre, and one on the Gold Coast, which...
• 1:05:51
  So, you know, it's essentially like a marina for aircraft.
• 1:05:54
  So we have hangers and aprons and offer handling services, fuel services.
• 1:05:59
  And then Global Jet International does the charter and management and flight planning and that side of things.
• 1:06:07
  And then we've got the Jetcraft Corporation, which is...
• 1:06:11
  of which I'm a partner in, and Australia, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, the Pacific is my region.
• 1:06:18
  But, you know, we're arguably the largest traders and resellers of aircrafts globally.
• 1:06:27
  So, yes, I was growing into quite a business with a number of staff, of which one of them is Dick Smart, who used to work for me, and Valentino Rossi.
• 1:06:39
  So he's been with me for about 10-odd years in the business.
• 1:06:44
  And he looks after the charter sales side of the charter sales team.
• 1:06:51
  Amazing.
• 1:06:51
  Amazing.
• 1:06:52
  From this incredible career that you've had, you've now spent a huge amount of time in the air following your son's career as well.
• 1:07:01
  And thankfully, maybe it's thankfully, he's gone four wheels instead of two.
• 1:07:06
  Are you happy about that?
• 1:07:07
  And do you sit back and let him walk his own path or do you try and help him through the pitfalls of motorsport?
• 1:07:14
  Both.
• 1:07:16
  At the end of the day, he's only 15 years old as well, so he does need a father as a bit of guidance.
• 1:07:23
  But equally, he's 15 years old with that.
• 1:07:29
  And equally, I need to be there to support him and guide him through that and pack his lunch, you know.
• 1:07:39
  But he's sorry.
• 1:07:40
  And on the other side of that is I'm his dad and he's 15 and he thinks he knows best.
• 1:07:45
  So, you know, so it's a catch 22.
• 1:07:47
  I try and...
• 1:07:50
  You know, this year I was at the majority of his races.
• 1:07:53
  I try and be there for the races.
• 1:07:55
  I won't attend all the testing.
• 1:07:57
  Try and get him to understand that he needs to be there himself and prepare himself.
• 1:08:01
  But mentally I try and give him some advice, you know, which I think is, you know, certainly he does take on board.
• 1:08:06
  But, you know, he's also got some other great mentors around him, you know, friends like Mark Webber.
• 1:08:12
  you know david cooltard you know unfortunately michael schumacher's not around um to to give him that advice any longer but you know in the early days sort of you know you know a family friend the schumachers and so on and he um you know he's very stern and you know and so at least you know he's seen other people get to the top so he's he's got that advantage as well
• 1:08:34
  But as a father, I need to step aside because, you know, I never took my... You know, you don't go to work with your dad.
• 1:08:41
  And if that's the way he wants to go, he needs to sort of stand up on his own two feet.
• 1:08:47
  They all start younger these days, but equally...
• 1:08:51
  um that's that they want them to so you know as come next year 2019 i probably won't attend all the races i'll still attend you know because i'm a fan of his as well but i'll um and if i'm there i'll be more so in the background a lot more than i have been so you know um being more instrumental in guiding his career i'll be now standing back watching his career
• 1:09:14
  Am I right in saying Michael Schumacher gave him a go-kart and perhaps influenced the direction that he's gone?
• 1:09:19
  And is he a chip off the old block?
• 1:09:22
  Is he as determined as you?
• 1:09:23
  He's certainly determined.
• 1:09:25
  You know, when he pushes himself, he sort of...
• 1:09:28
  He certainly doesn't like losing, that's for sure, which is a good side of things.
• 1:09:33
  And he, you know, and he is...
• 1:09:37
  you know he's got that desire to want to win which is good um you know certainly schumacher sort of helped with providing both me and his sister a go-kart when they were younger and uh set him on that path but you know that was that was really just a bit of a gesture than and a bit of fun but um you know but thankfully he did take up go-karting rather than most motorcycle racing but uh
• 1:10:02
  But he loved his rugby union and his surfing, but unfortunately he chose motorsport.
• 1:10:08
  Final one for you.
• 1:10:10
  As a part of this series, I ask all the guests about a Grail machine.
• 1:10:14
  And you've been fortunate enough to own some great cars and race some brilliant motorcycles along the way.
• 1:10:20
  Is there one, and maybe even a plane, that you would love to own or perhaps you do own?
• 1:10:25
  To be honest, not a hundred percent.
• 1:10:29
  I've never been a big car collector, bike collector.
• 1:10:33
  There are some machines that I'd like to own.
• 1:10:41
  The Project One AMG would be an awesome car to drive.
• 1:10:47
  and to have in the garage.
• 1:10:50
  You know, there is another manufacturer that I have, a supercar, which I'm taking delivery of early next year.
• 1:11:04
  But again, it's not something that excites me really, to be honest.
• 1:11:08
  Quite often it's a bit of a letdown when you hop in it and you drive it and you go, going back to your earlier question, you can't relive that buzz of what you, you know, the pure...
• 1:11:20
  horsepower you had when you were competing on Grand Prix motorcycle racing no matter how good the car is or whatever else you can't get that same buzz so it's almost a bit of buyer's remorse when you hop in these things and you don't hang on to them for too long, that's me anyway but you know that project one will be a great motor car and I haven't seen one yet but I'm looking forward to it
• 1:11:44
  Awesome, mate.
• 1:11:45
  It's been great to talk to you.
• 1:11:46
  A stellar career, mate.
• 1:11:47
  54 wins in the Premier Class, 95 podiums and 58 poles, and you've done some amazing things off track since, and we wish you continued success.
• 1:11:54
  Thank you.
• 1:11:55
  Thanks, Rusty.
• 1:11:56
  Cheers.
• 1:12:00
  Rusty's Garage is written and presented by me, Greg Rust.
• 1:12:04
  Series producer and editor is Alex Mitchell.
• 1:12:08
  Audio production by Darcy Thompson.
• 1:12:17
  Listener.