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Fraggle Talk: Back to the Rock - Ep. 201 "The Great Wind" · Muppet Fan Podcasts with ToughPigs.com

• 0:09
  Hello and welcome to Fraggle Talk Back to the Rock, the
• 0:13
  unofficial Fraggle Rock podcast brought to you by toughpics.com.
• 0:17
  This is the podcast where we cover Fraggle Rock Back to the
• 0:20
  Rock episode by episode, along with the talented producers,
• 0:24
  performers, writers and builders who helped put it all together.
• 0:27
  I'm your host, silly creature Johannes.
• 0:30
  Today we are talking about Season 2, episode one, The Great
• 0:34
  Wind, in which things get a little breezy down at Fraggle
• 0:37
  Rock. This week, we're excited to
• 0:40
  welcome back two guests without whom this wonderful show would
• 0:43
  not exist. First up, he is the developer,
• 0:47
  executive producer and writer on Back to the Rock, it's Matt
• 0:51
  Fusfeld. Hey, Matt.
• 0:52
  Yeah. Yeah.
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  Oh, happy to be here. I like to think of you as a
• 0:56
  developer. Yeah, well, right, 'cause it's
• 0:59
  the show was developed. Yeah, that that is one of your
• 1:01
  titles. I didn't know if that was
• 1:03
  important or not to. Mention in your intro that's.
• 1:05
  Very. No, I Yeah, I love it.
• 1:07
  I love it. Take all you mean, listen, we'll
• 1:09
  take all the credit we can take. You know what I mean?
• 1:11
  Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course it's like a
• 1:13
  collaborative experience, but. But yeah, we'll take any credit.
• 1:17
  It is collaborative because your collaborator is another
• 1:21
  developer, executive producer and writer on Back to the Rock.
• 1:24
  It's Alex Cuthbertson. Hey, Alex.
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  Thank you for. To have you guys so glad to have
• 1:31
  you both back here on the podcast.
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  First of all, I have to thank you both for all the work that
• 1:37
  you've done on Back to the Rock, The fact that this show exists
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  and that it's so good. There's no reason that either of
• 1:45
  those things should be true, and yet here we are.
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  So thank you guys for for bringing this.
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  Show for you. Thank you, Joe.
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  Thank you for being such a like, so, you know, throwing so much
• 1:55
  love toward the show and and publicizing the show, making
• 1:58
  kind of engaging with the fans and and the show and making it
• 2:01
  such a part of the Fraggle, the Fraggle fabric, the Fraggle
• 2:04
  fabric. That's the yeah, that's the
• 2:06
  phrase I'm trying to say Fraggle.
• 2:07
  Fabric. Fragrick.
• 2:09
  Fragrick No, we're so I don't know.
• 2:12
  We're we, we love it. The show is such a labor of love
• 2:15
  for everybody who works on it. So like Matt was alluding to,
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  it's kind of the most collaborative experience
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  imaginable. So it's fun to get excited
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  about. I think when it's your own
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  thing, it's hard to not feel a little self-conscious about
• 2:28
  taking credit for something. And like, because Fraggle is so
• 2:31
  collaborative and so product of everybody that works on it, it's
• 2:34
  easy to just kind of get psyched about it and say, yeah, we love
• 2:36
  it, it's great. And to that point, thank you
• 2:39
  guys. Like, I mean, you're kind of you
• 2:41
  loom very large, Joe Johannes, like in our in our like you are
• 2:45
  like, I'm sure like in the 80s, like when people were making
• 2:47
  stuff, they were like, what are Siskel and Ebert going to think
• 2:50
  about our movie situation? Not not even, not even BS.
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  And you that were like, I wonder if Johannes and his his crew,
• 2:57
  because you are kind of in our minds, you are like the leader
• 3:01
  of the Fraggle fandom. And we seriously, you know, we
• 3:04
  thrive off of that. And I think that sort of makes
• 3:07
  it collaborative too. You know, we're like, we are
• 3:10
  doing the show for you guys as one of you.
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  So we truly love everything that you guys do too.
• 3:17
  Oh, thank you. That that really that means more
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  than you, than you know. The fact that no, it's for real,
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  yeah. If I can't be there in Fraggle
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  Rock in person, that the second best thing is that that someone
• 3:28
  in the room is saying my name. If we get it, if we get and I
• 3:32
  would say when we get a season three, you got to come out.
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  It's so enjoy. It's so.
• 3:37
  OK, I'm coming. I'll start walking now.
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  How far is it to? Calgary, it's very cold to
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  Calgary is an interesting walk. It'll take you through some
• 3:45
  emotional states. You'll you'll be times where you
• 3:47
  think you're not going to make it and then you'll get there and
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  it'll be all worthwhile. Fantastic.
• 3:52
  No, it's. Your words to God's here.
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  Unlike any other set visit experience.
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  And like you got, you got to do it.
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  We got to make that happen. Great.
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  OK, I, I thank you. I, I would love to take you up
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  on that, that it's quite important to me, you guys going
• 4:05
  to season three that I can make my way there.
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  That's a Fraggle promise too, by the way.
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  Like everything we, Alex and I do, we're like like when we
• 4:13
  finish up work for the day, we're like, is that I, I guess
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  that's a Fraggle Tuesday like we have, but that's a like.
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  Not working like working on other projects?
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  Yeah, not even working. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  Like it's. Well, it started on Fraggle,
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  right? So like that's a Fraggle Joe,
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  you need to you will come to set.
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  That's a Fraggle promise. That's a Fraggle promise.
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  OK, deal I'm in. That's a Fraggle acceptance of
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  your Fraggle. Promise.
• 4:35
  OK, yeah, that's the full Fraggle.
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  Tell me, when did you both find out that Back to the Rock was
• 4:41
  renewed for a second season? You know, it, it happened.
• 4:44
  I, I got to say, I think we were preparing ourselves to not know
• 4:47
  for a while and it did end up happening relatively quickly.
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  I'm going back now to the premiere of the first season.
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  I think it was within a month, right about thereabouts where we
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  found out that a second season was really likely.
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  And so we started to kind of, you know, have our we'd always
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  had sort of low level creative conversations like wish list
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  stuff that we could do. But about a month in, we started
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  to get rumblings. It's funny, it's a funny
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  business. There's a lot of imprecision in
• 5:14
  our business Where you. Start now more than ever.
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  It's a funny. It's always been a funny.
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  It's always even funnier now. Yeah.
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  And it's even funnier now, but there are a lot of like, you
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  know, just wind changes, not to pull the metaphor from the
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  second season, but you'll start to feel the breeze blowing one
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  way or another might start either not look good or look
• 5:31
  good. And in our case, it started to
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  look good for second season, I would say within a month of of
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  the first season dropping on on Apple.
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  And then we had got to ramp up the creative conversations about
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  it and start, you know, reaching out to the staff to make sure
• 5:45
  people were available. That's the other hard thing
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  because when you don't know what's going to happen, you want
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  to make sure all the people who made the first season greater
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  able to come back. So we ended up getting really
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  lucky that the staff was available and excited to come
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  back. And, you know, we had the same
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  amazing group that we had from first season and even got to,
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  you know, the the young woman who was our writers assistant
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  got to, you know, join as a staff writer for the second
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  season. So it really kind of was all the
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  same family that came up to do the second season and then we
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  got ramped up and going pretty quickly.
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  That's great. Yeah.
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  We joined each other all in Los Angeles.
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  We had, because we had writers in New York and writers in LA
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  and even London, but so we all were able to gather in LA for
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  just a couple of days of just fun, big picture conversation
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  and then everyone retreated back to their home bases and we did a
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  20 week writers room. So you you've mentioned this
• 6:38
  writers room, can you tell me a little bit about how you broke
• 6:42
  season 2? Yeah.
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  I mean, I think similar to season one, we really, like
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  wanted to start with a big physical metaphor that we could
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  dive into. And season one is obviously all
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  about water. And then, you know, water is
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  used as a way to breakdown walls and interconnect worlds in new
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  ways. And wind was something that
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  really struck us this year as a way to talk about change.
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  And I think that the big idea behind Season 2 is sort of
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  dealing with change and how change can be an agent for
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  really positive things, really good advancement, but it can
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  also be really scary. And it it it it challenges, you
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  know, everyone in different ways.
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  It brings out the best in some people and brings out the worst
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  in others. And there are ways to confront
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  all of that and move forward positively.
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  So I think wind just felt like this perfect way to talk about
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  all of that. Talk about uncertainty, the
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  world do a big metaphor for climate change and what young
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  people and all people on the planet are dealing with as far
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  as knowing that that is a reality and but yet here we are
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  and we and on we go. So it's sort of like grabbing
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  onto that as a, as a positive metaphor, you know, not that
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  climate change is positive, but that we hate here we are
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  together and what we do within it, it can be really positive.
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  So that was the that was the big physical metaphor.
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  And then we just kind of went from there to talk about what
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  those types of stories inspired in people.
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  And especially when all the writers got together in person,
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  it was just sharing stories and laughing and, and certain
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  episodes came out of those first couple of days.
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  I mean, like the I'm Pokey episode really in in many ways
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  came out of that day and talking about, you know, really personal
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  stories on staff and and yeah, I think that was that.
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  Was literally like one of our, one of our writers has a young,
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  has a young son who came like was excited to go to the
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  playground with a ponytail and another kid was like, you can't
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  wear a ponytail. You're that's like, that's for,
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  that's for girls. And like, that opened up this
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  incredible conversation with this awesome group that that,
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  yeah, eventually became on Pogey.
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  Oh, there was something. You were going to say, Alex,
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  like the thing that that Henson and Hallie in particular and
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  Lisa really responded to as we started talking about it was
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  kind of what you were saying, Alex, like this idea of I think
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  Hallie likes to call it like hope punk, like just like
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  radical hope radical. All right, things are the sky is
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  falling a little bit. Like what are we going to do?
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  Like we're going to, we're going to be like hopeful in, in the
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  face of of, you know, all reason, sort of.
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  Yeah, it's like it's, and it's also like the wind is such an
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  interesting thing because it's like lean into it.
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  You know, you could stand still and sort of say all these things
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  are happening. And then there's sort of like,
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  all right, what's my agency in that?
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  What, how can I be a positive influence within that?
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  How do I lean into that wind and then kind of create a new
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  current within it? There's a little thing me and
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  Alex, like the everybody in the business, like we were talking
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  about is talking about, oh, the business is changing.
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  The business is changing and there's so much the sky is
• 9:42
  falling type type attitude from a lot of our friends.
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  And it's like we've actually like fun like sort of like are
• 9:49
  we like our attitude is like, are we just we're, we're we're
• 9:52
  doing the Fraggle Rock season 2. That's our attitude, right?
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  Like things are different, but let's like, like we're just
• 9:58
  embracing that and it's it's kind of cool.
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  It is really interesting that you mentioned that because yeah,
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  Matt, Matt and I have worked together.
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  I mean, we're friends from college and we've worked
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  together as professional TV writers now for like a a long
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  time now. It's now sneakily become a long
• 10:12
  time and we've seen massive changes in that time.
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  And so it really is funny to see the themes in Froggle Rock,
• 10:19
  which are obviously echoing out throughout the entire world,
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  kind of hitting this really specific way for our job and in
• 10:26
  our industry right now. Because just the way
• 10:28
  particularly writers sort of approach their careers, it's
• 10:32
  changed so much. And it can be scary.
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  It really can be, you know, it's a year live, but it's for it's.
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  Everything too. It's everything, you know, It's
• 10:39
  like kids, kids with phones, like change.
• 10:42
  Change is the only constant, you know.
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  But it does feel like this point in time is particularly
• 10:47
  accelerated. Either because of a number of
• 10:50
  things happening or our access to follow everything that's
• 10:53
  happening or a combination of both.
• 10:55
  It just does feel like we live in a time that is absolutely
• 10:58
  rocked by change. And I do think the way through
• 11:01
  that is to try to find the the positive side of it in in.
• 11:05
  The first thing is to just be like, all right, change is
• 11:06
  happening. Like we're not.
• 11:08
  There's nothing we can do about that.
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  Now what? And it's like we're all
• 11:11
  together. We'll work.
• 11:12
  We'll try our best, you know? What's your thing you it's?
• 11:15
  Is it good that you kind of approach every?
• 11:17
  Oh, yeah, yeah. I had AI had a a yoga teacher
• 11:20
  tell me this. He's like, you know what the I
• 11:22
  think it's the, it's the yeah. It's like the Navy Seals.
• 11:25
  The Navy Seal's motto apparently is like, good.
• 11:30
  It's like the, the, the, the, the bomb didn't go the bomb.
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  I mean, like the bomb went off like good.
• 11:37
  Like the car broke down like good.
• 11:40
  And it's because. And it's like, oh, I guess
• 11:42
  you're just like, yeah, this happened like, now what?
• 11:46
  Basically. So let's.
• 11:47
  Just put our skills to the test. Let's let's solve an.
• 11:50
  Issue. I know, I know there's a work.
• 11:52
  I can't believe that's what you led me into, but.
• 11:55
  I'm so sorry. You don't like.
• 11:56
  Yeah, I like. Listen, it's like you can't.
• 11:58
  I mean, if it's any consolation, I got that from a yoga teacher.
• 12:01
  Yeah, exactly. Let's just stop.
• 12:02
  It was very fraggly. It was like a Moki type.
• 12:05
  If I have a Moki type man who, yeah, who is just like very like
• 12:10
  he he yeah. Anyway, a lot of a lot of the
• 12:12
  stuff comes from him. Honestly a lot of Moki stuff
• 12:14
  comes from him. Tell me what else from your your
• 12:17
  background as a Navy SEAL you've used as a writer in front of the
• 12:20
  Rock? Well, first of all, it's just
• 12:22
  about, I mean, Jim Henson created this show to start wars
• 12:25
  and kill. Yeah, Yeah, exactly.
• 12:28
  Yeah, famously, yeah. Right, we're going to use our
• 12:30
  platform to really talk about how cool these Navy Seals are.
• 12:35
  So, OK, so season one is all about water and season 2 is all
• 12:38
  about wind. Does that mean that season three
• 12:39
  is going to be all about fire? I don't want to say, OK, listen,
• 12:43
  we are, we talk about. Listen, we hear you.
• 12:45
  We hear I go on. I go on Discord sometimes, like
• 12:49
  I lurk around there, like you know what I mean?
• 12:51
  I understand the we understand the the pratfalls of that.
• 12:54
  But maybe we'll see. We'll see.
• 12:56
  We'll see. We'll see.
• 12:57
  Just like the rock on fire. That sounds like a great idea.
• 13:00
  I mean, not Yeah, that sounds terrifying, 100% yeah.
• 13:02
  We've had those conversations. Well, no, we didn't.
• 13:05
  You could think about fire in lots of different ways.
• 13:07
  But no, I don't. I don't necessarily know if
• 13:09
  it'll be as literal a, you know, third element as the first two
• 13:13
  were. But if you think about, you
• 13:15
  know, the physical metaphor, Fraggle Rock, there is something
• 13:18
  about how the Earth, especially the Earth beneath the surface,
• 13:20
  is interconnected in a way that lends itself to that sort of
• 13:24
  thing. And there's a timelessness to
• 13:26
  that idea, you know, Oh, there's forces that are so much larger
• 13:29
  than our own tiny perspective on things.
• 13:32
  And, you know, wind and water really lend themselves to that.
• 13:35
  And so it kind of like they float, float.
• 13:37
  Pardon me, naturally, from one to the other.
• 13:40
  I don't know if we'll commit ourselves to continuing.
• 13:43
  I'm pretty sure it's just going to be like, like Wembley, like
• 13:46
  leaving the fire department, enjoying in the Navy Seals
• 13:48
  basically is going to be season three, right?
• 13:50
  And then learning to let go and like, yeah, it's that kind of
• 13:53
  thing. Anyway, Wembley gets ripped and
• 13:56
  he's just like good, good. Good.
• 13:59
  His new catch phrase. Good.
• 14:00
  Yeah. Great.
• 14:02
  I think we just broke season three.
• 14:03
  I think we did it. Yeah, we did it.
• 14:04
  Yeah. All right, let's talk about this
• 14:08
  premiere episode. The The episode begins.
• 14:12
  It is morning on Fraggle Rock. We open on Sprocket.
• 14:15
  He's taking a little nap. Camera zooms down to Fraggle
• 14:18
  Rock. We see some Ink Spots in
• 14:19
  pajamas, which is adorable. Hey, this mean?
• 14:22
  Come on. What, are you gonna not start
• 14:24
  the season with Ink Spots wearing pajamas?
• 14:26
  Thank you. That's important to do.
• 14:28
  What do you got to do? Yeah.
• 14:29
  I love those little guys. Barry Blueberry is there, he's
• 14:32
  announcing the morning and we jump right into our first song.
• 14:36
  It is The Rock Goes On. That's from the original series
• 14:40
  episode. The honk of Honks.
• 14:42
  Love this song. Great song.
• 14:43
  It's a great song. I mean, talk about it song to
• 14:46
  just welcome you back. I think that's what we were
• 14:48
  thinking about, you know, Johnny being, you know, the most, just
• 14:51
  one of the most talented people on the planet.
• 14:53
  You know, he's one of the things he's a particular savant about
• 14:57
  is picking just knowing the song for the he knows.
• 15:01
  He knows he's just like an antenna and you just a signal
• 15:05
  comes through him and he just knows which song.
• 15:07
  And then, by the way, like the the slight change wind of change
• 15:11
  we're going to lead. I guess we're doing is is you
• 15:14
  just makes me think when you describe that opening scene
• 15:16
  already about this extra component this season, which was
• 15:19
  we had Jordan Canning direct, like really be just a huge
• 15:24
  presence there. And her and Johnny have such a
• 15:27
  shorthand. We have such a short.
• 15:28
  She's just and so it's already the collaboration is beginning
• 15:32
  just in that she's like, I'm thinking like as we go down the
• 15:34
  caves just gets me how how she wanted to, you know, stage that
• 15:39
  whole song. Yeah, enough.
• 15:40
  I. Feel like there was like a
• 15:41
  controversial. I feel like the Barry Blueberry
• 15:43
  thing was like a discussion, right?
• 15:45
  Like whether it was going to be like, do we want like, not from
• 15:48
  us, We always want Barry, Barry Blueberry.
• 15:50
  But like I feel like that was I can't remember.
• 15:52
  I mean, all these things are these characters you see in time
• 15:54
  and time again, especially in writers rooms, there's like
• 15:56
  characters that you just fall in love with and then you tend to,
• 15:58
  like, go to them too much because we don't.
• 16:01
  Want Barry Blueberry to be our Urkel?
• 16:03
  You know, but I, I, but I actually think it ended up
• 16:05
  working. And I think you guys talked to
• 16:07
  this bit on in some of the reviews that I do think that,
• 16:09
  you know, there's like, you know, oh, concern about whether
• 16:12
  or not he'd be used or overused that sort of thing.
• 16:14
  But I do think particularly once in in, in episode 202, in the
• 16:19
  twisty turn a thon once Sherry Contrari is introduced, I do
• 16:22
  think it kind of really, yeah. Well, it's a good way to like,
• 16:30
  you know, like you say, if you're trying to not Urkelize
• 16:33
  the show to keep it interesting, you're not just hitting the same
• 16:36
  note over and over again with Barry Blueberry.
• 16:38
  You're not just having him come in and be like, we're going to
• 16:39
  do the announcer thing again. Exactly like you found a way to
• 16:42
  to change it up a little bit. Yeah, and there's a scene in the
• 16:45
  mezzo in. Mezzo Yeah, my favorite.
• 16:47
  My. Favorite Barry Blueberry.
• 16:48
  It's just a, it's a very like it's, it's a kind of thing that
• 16:51
  passes by quickly, but we all loved it, which is just Barry
• 16:54
  showing up on a day he's not going to announce.
• 16:56
  He's just like, he's just there as a.
• 16:57
  Fan to see Mezzo. He's just a fan.
• 16:59
  He's just there to be mezzo and he's he's polite about it, but
• 17:01
  he doesn't really want to. Like he doesn't really want to
• 17:03
  strain his instrument. Johnny, Johnny, he's doing Berry
• 17:07
  blueberry. Like, you know, like you caught
• 17:09
  me like at the stage door. Like, not tonight, not tonight.
• 17:13
  Yeah, I was just here to see that though.
• 17:16
  It's like running into the weatherman at the grocery store.
• 17:18
  Yeah, I love it. Yeah.
• 17:20
  It's sort of like I'm here. I'm here with my family.
• 17:22
  I'm here like, you know, I'm here.
• 17:23
  I'm not mad that you recognize me, but I'm also.
• 17:25
  I'm not going to perform. Yeah, all.
• 17:27
  Right, all right, I'll sign something.
• 17:28
  I'll sign something that way, but just real quick.
• 17:29
  All right, All right, one picture.
• 17:30
  Yeah. Because I do love it.
• 17:31
  Secretly. I love it like I'm so like Barry
• 17:33
  would be. Barry would be devastated.
• 17:35
  Horrified nobody. Yeah, Oh my God.
• 17:38
  At the Mezzo show, devastated would not get out of bed for
• 17:41
  three days. So this is such a great
• 17:45
  introduction to the to the new season.
• 17:47
  And, and I'm sure that's going to be hard for you guys as
• 17:49
  writers to say like, OK, we've already done 1314 episodes of
• 17:54
  like, let's welcome you back to Fraggle Rock.
• 17:56
  How do we fit that into just two minutes here?
• 17:59
  And it's like already, it's like you get Sprocket, you get the
• 18:02
  Fraggle 5, you get, you know, Ink Spots, the Worldwells,
• 18:05
  Fraggle, the Storyteller, the Doosers, Trash Heap, Gourds,
• 18:09
  everyone's singing the song. And the song's not so hyper
• 18:12
  specific to to any moment that it's just like, yeah, we just
• 18:15
  like singing. And it's.
• 18:16
  Kind of an awesome, Yeah, it's a little bit of brilliant.
• 18:19
  Yeah. It really in a way that, you
• 18:21
  know, we kind of did that in the pilot as well.
• 18:23
  It's like just start with a real.
• 18:24
  I mean, the pilot, it wasn't a it wasn't an original.
• 18:27
  It was a new song. Not not a song from the library.
• 18:30
  But yeah, this is the idea of like, all right, what's a fun?
• 18:33
  Just celebrate the fact that you're back in Fraggle rock kind
• 18:35
  of thing. Because I don't know, it's
• 18:37
  season twos. Just generally season twos are
• 18:39
  kind of interesting as A to approve as writers, you know,
• 18:44
  and particularly the first episode of season 2, because
• 18:47
  there is a little bit of re piloting is the wrong word.
• 18:50
  But you know, look, there's there really were only 13
• 18:53
  episodes plus a holiday special. So there's a little bit of sort
• 18:56
  of saying, like art, we're not looking to do a hard left turn
• 19:01
  here. We do want to welcome everybody
• 19:03
  back to the world of the show. And we want to be able to set
• 19:07
  some sort of patterns that show that like, oh, like ease you
• 19:10
  back in, you're in you're in sort of the hands of the show
• 19:13
  that you knew. But if you haven't seen the
• 19:15
  show, this is also a way to get acquainted, you know, So it was
• 19:19
  meant to be really kind of a inclusive.
• 19:21
  Even like a cynically not, not even in a cynical way.
• 19:24
  It's like these seasons now with this business model and the
• 19:27
  streaming and everything binge watching.
• 19:30
  It's like we're doing all right, here's a here's a new movie
• 19:32
  basically like, and yeah, it's it's a challenge for sure,
• 19:36
  because you're like what? Like, you know, I, I know, I
• 19:41
  just, I know all this stuff like if you're like for the die hard.
• 19:43
  So not alienating that fan, but also like orienting yourself for
• 19:48
  what's ahead. And then we made a couple of,
• 19:50
  you know, creative choices too, which it's like you could, you
• 19:53
  could feel, you can feel any number of ways about.
• 19:55
  But we we made a choice to repeat a little bit of the vibe
• 20:00
  and pattern that the pilot established as far.
• 20:04
  Uncle Matt asking Gobo to go to outer space and then doing an
• 20:06
  episode that kind of shows why Gobo chooses not to make that.
• 20:09
  Decision to go and I mean even down to like the bit at the end
• 20:13
  where Uncle, I mean, we're not skip ahead, but we're gobo makes
• 20:17
  his speech again that he's not going to go.
• 20:18
  And then we do the same joke, which is Uncle Matt saying cool,
• 20:23
  like when he makes this big emotional plea, like, why he we
• 20:26
  did that on purpose, you know? And like Alex said, yeah, it was
• 20:30
  a choice, you know? Yeah, I think part of it is
• 20:32
  like, you know, a little bit engaging with like, like, what
• 20:35
  is this show as far as is it a reboot, is it a retelling, is it
• 20:38
  a reimagining, whatever. And there's a little bit of like
• 20:40
  stepping into the hard to pin down timing of Fraggle Rock.
• 20:45
  Has time gone by? Are we referencing the original
• 20:48
  series? No Spiritually, yes.
• 20:50
  Are we recognizing that there are patterns they play out in
• 20:53
  Fraggle Rock, that there's going to be an ongoing dynamic between
• 20:56
  Uncle Travelling, Matt and Gobo that's not just going to change
• 20:59
  from first season to second season?
• 21:01
  Totally. We wanted to keep certain
• 21:03
  dynamics as they were intentionally from first season
• 21:06
  to second season. Thinking back on the original
• 21:08
  Fraggle Rock, that maintained many of the dynamics throughout
• 21:11
  the entire series. We wanted to do some of that,
• 21:14
  but then also recognize that we're in a different era.
• 21:16
  We do more serialized and kind of arced out storytelling in
• 21:20
  these seasons. So we wanted to have certain
• 21:22
  patterns that we could kind of bring back and repeat while
• 21:25
  moving the needle a little bit as far as where the show goes.
• 21:29
  And then maybe when we start to get into seasons three and
• 21:32
  onward, we can start to take some of those dynamics and do
• 21:35
  harder shifts on them that we can actually dig deeper into.
• 21:39
  It just felt, it honestly felt too early to upend a lot of
• 21:42
  those things, which is why partly it's I'm kind of skipping
• 21:45
  ahead, but why, you know, we reset paw in this episode, the
• 21:50
  end of the first season. Oh yeah, we have to really talk
• 21:53
  about. That yeah, we'll dig into this.
• 21:55
  There's a lot to dig into. Yeah, I think there is.
• 21:57
  Like, by the way, I mean, I do think to Alex's point like that,
• 22:00
  I think there was less, I don't know why, honestly, but like it
• 22:04
  does feel like there was less pressure when you were a more
• 22:06
  traditional show, like the old, the original version.
• 22:09
  Like it didn't seem like there was as much.
• 22:13
  You could just kind of keep it going, you know, like more and
• 22:16
  more episodes. Whereas this does feel like we
• 22:19
  kind of do you need to set up these, these sort of arbitrary
• 22:22
  sort of beginning and and ending points to the seasons, which is,
• 22:26
  you know, again, I just, it is what it is, you know, this is
• 22:30
  the, the media landscape that we're in now and like how people
• 22:33
  consume stuff versus how they used to.
• 22:36
  Sure. Yeah, so before we get too far
• 22:38
  ahead, I do want to call out two shots from the Rock Goes on
• 22:41
  sequence. One is there's a great shot of
• 22:44
  Junior Gorg sitting with his arms out and all five Fraggles
• 22:48
  are dancing on him. Yes, which looks so good.
• 22:51
  It's such. A great.
• 22:52
  I love that the other one is at the end of the song.
• 22:56
  So this whole song has like such a like a cool, like like gospel
• 23:00
  feel to it. And there's a a bit where like
• 23:04
  we see the whole of Fraggle Rock and all the Fraggles are there
• 23:07
  and there are Fraggles in the background being thrown just
• 23:10
  like heated in the air. And I love the movie Blues
• 23:14
  Brothers. And there's a scene with with
• 23:18
  James Brown where he's doing a gospel song and people are just
• 23:22
  flying 20 feet in the air just like that.
• 23:26
  I don't know if that was deliberate, but it felt, it felt
• 23:29
  spot on. You know, I don't know if that
• 23:31
  was ever discussed deliberately, but I love the, I love the
• 23:33
  reference and I love the yeah. And I also think of Ferris
• 23:36
  Bueller during the during the twist and shout sequence there.
• 23:39
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lying into the ear on that one,
• 23:41
  that look a lot like Muppets. No, the Fraggle toss is like one
• 23:45
  of the best moves. I mean, I think we use it
• 23:46
  whenever possible. It's just so it's always funny.
• 23:49
  They're a little bit funny. Yeah.
• 23:50
  You have to no that. I mean, that song is so great.
• 23:52
  And what you're pointing out with the, you know, the Fraggles
• 23:54
  dancing on Junior, there's a lot of stuff.
• 23:56
  There was an earlier version of the episode and just in script
• 24:00
  form that was a lot longer, had a lot more early scenes between
• 24:04
  the Fraggles and the Gorg's kind of about, you know, how things
• 24:07
  have changed their how playful they are together now.
• 24:10
  We had to end up, you know, condensing all of that into
• 24:12
  something you can understand immediately and took no
• 24:15
  production and, you know, page time.
• 24:17
  So putting it into the song is kind of ended up being the most
• 24:20
  natural way to do it. So we're just seeing the play
• 24:22
  and it's a quick moment, but I do love that shot of them all
• 24:24
  together. I think it's so.
• 24:25
  All that is evidence too of like, I mean, geez, like that's
• 24:28
  like, all right, let's this isn't this isn't like starting
• 24:32
  fresh at all. This is episode like, you know
• 24:34
  what, 1415 where now at the end of the last season, people were
• 24:39
  in the zone. And now I mean, everybody is
• 24:42
  just working together to get those.
• 24:44
  But that that shot with with them all on on Junior's arms,
• 24:47
  Like I can't even imagine it would have taken like four times
• 24:50
  as long in the beginning of the whole production.
• 24:52
  And now it's just like they they know exactly what to.
• 24:54
  Do I mean all the all the kind of like, you know, comp stuff
• 24:58
  that they do where those you know, the puppeteering for the
• 25:00
  Fraggles is shot as the as the puppeteering for the Gorg's
• 25:04
  shot. And then we do comp that live.
• 25:06
  And then of course, they we go back and post to make it, you
• 25:08
  know, the the amazing team makes it look better.
• 25:11
  So much the rough version of what you're seeing is happening
• 25:15
  live. All those performances are
• 25:16
  happening at the same time. All five of the Fraggles are are
• 25:19
  being a green screen at the same time.
• 25:21
  Yes, that's cool. Yeah.
• 25:23
  It's. Really quite.
• 25:24
  You'll see, you'll see Fraggle promise, you'll see.
• 25:26
  It's very cool. We have like the, what do you
• 25:28
  call it? The blue box?
• 25:29
  It was a. Cube Yeah, this is basically a
• 25:31
  blue box. It was full sided, the Las Vegas
• 25:34
  sphere, but for blue screen inside of it.
• 25:37
  And we could do all of our comp stuff there.
• 25:39
  So whether it was shooting Mezzo and her band as full size
• 25:42
  Fraggles that we then trumped down, or if it's shooting the
• 25:45
  Fraggles and scenes where they have to be put into the gorge's
• 25:48
  garden, all that's happening kind of at the same time.
• 25:51
  And now just really they've got it down.
• 25:53
  I mean, you got like our VFX supervisor there just like with
• 25:56
  his glasses on looking at it's all, it's very, it's very cool.
• 26:00
  That's cool and that's good. Again, good collaboration
• 26:03
  everyone. Working at the same time and.
• 26:05
  It's such a, you know, I love it such a makery show in that way
• 26:09
  where everything is constructed. And even when we are using
• 26:11
  things like, you know, obviously digital effects to to comp them
• 26:14
  together, you're still doing it in the most sort of tactile and,
• 26:18
  and real way possible. Where the gourd performers are
• 26:21
  watching Fraggles on the screen being performed live, you know,
• 26:24
  in their laps or on their hands or whatever it is.
• 26:26
  And so it's, yeah, it's pretty cool.
• 26:29
  That is cool. Yeah.
• 26:30
  So everyone is so happy with the New Harmony and Fraggle Rock.
• 26:34
  The dudes. Sorry, the Fraggles and the
• 26:36
  Gorgs, especially traveling. Matt enters.
• 26:39
  He is accompanied by three Ink Spots dressed as Boy Scouts.
• 26:44
  Now, do you guys write this stuff into the scripts?
• 26:47
  Like, like there's Ink Spots there and they're dressed as I
• 26:49
  wish I could take. Credit so badly for that one
• 26:52
  sometimes, yeah, but not that. That I mean, that's, I mean who?
• 26:56
  Do you give credit to for that like?
• 26:58
  I mean, it's the shop, you know, so it's.
• 27:00
  I know, but who specifically? You know, I wish I know who
• 27:02
  specific like I'll, you know Scotty.
• 27:04
  Like, it could have been Scotty. It could have been Jurgen.
• 27:07
  Like it's, yeah. That's.
• 27:09
  It almost, it's dangerous for us, like as writers who
• 27:13
  hopefully will continue to work beyond Fraggle Rock, Like, you
• 27:16
  almost get a little lazy sometimes because you're like,
• 27:18
  oh, they'll come up with something fantastic.
• 27:20
  So yeah. Well, especially when it's like,
• 27:24
  it's such a good like physical gag that like there, there might
• 27:27
  be a moment where there's not a joke, but the joke is there's an
• 27:31
  ink spot in the background and if you're watching it, then
• 27:33
  it's. Hysterical.
• 27:34
  I mean, that's the joy of Frogger Rock 'cause it's just so
• 27:37
  silly and it's sort of like inspires everybody on set.
• 27:39
  And so if you look around in any shot, if there's a sign, like
• 27:42
  think about the artist who created that sign and there's
• 27:44
  going to be some detail on that sign that's ridiculous and
• 27:47
  funny. And you know, I think everybody
• 27:49
  just gets so excited to do to, to kind of like hit all of the
• 27:52
  details. Truly those production meetings,
• 27:55
  I mean are are truly like just a yes and fest and like just a
• 28:01
  joyful experience, which is not always the case.
• 28:04
  On the case. On ATV show, yeah.
• 28:06
  Always the case. So Matt is in lieu of a
• 28:10
  postcard, because he's there in person.
• 28:12
  He's telling everybody about his recent excursion into outer
• 28:15
  space. He found a farmer's markets and
• 28:18
  he brought back the sweet radish, silly creatures called a
• 28:21
  strawberry, but sweet radish is the scientific name now.
• 28:25
  OK, so first of all, there's there was something I'm not
• 28:30
  going to say off but odd about the farmers market scene.
• 28:33
  And I think on this my, my most recent viewing of it, I put my
• 28:36
  finger on it, which is everyone can see Matt.
• 28:39
  Like there's always that question of whether he's kind of
• 28:42
  like, you know, like, is he just kind of like under the radar?
• 28:45
  They don't notice him, you know, whatever.
• 28:48
  But people, we have this. Conversation and it's like, you
• 28:51
  know, in the original there are definitely moments where it's
• 28:54
  very clear that people can see him and are actually
• 28:56
  interacting. And I think that, you know, we
• 28:59
  kind of rode the balance a little bit in season one,
• 29:02
  although there's absolutely times like when he's riding
• 29:04
  around in Zamboni, the people on the ice can they're looking up
• 29:07
  at him and they're, you know, we had big conversations even just
• 29:11
  with sort of background performers about are they, are
• 29:14
  they regarding him as an oddity? Are they scared of him?
• 29:18
  Are they like what is the deal? And talking to Dave Goals and
• 29:21
  Jocelyn Stevenson also about like what the original sort of
• 29:25
  intent was. Yeah, it's there's not a
• 29:28
  satisfying answer, truly. No, that's OK.
• 29:30
  Yeah, we don't need to satisfy. I mean, it's a little halfway
• 29:32
  between a Muppet in the wild where, you know, you, the public
• 29:35
  interacts with The Muppets in ways that are sort of like
• 29:38
  depending on the gag, either straight up, hey there, I'm
• 29:41
  talking to you as if you're a person on the street or what are
• 29:45
  you? What are you doing here?
• 29:46
  You're ridiculous. I think with Matt, it's a little
• 29:49
  bit of both, where it's not like an alien encounter where people
• 29:53
  are concerned about it, but there is definitely his behavior
• 29:57
  I think is what we try to lean into as far as what people are
• 29:59
  reacting to. Because Matt is a fool by design
• 30:03
  and, you know, gets all, it gets everything wrong.
• 30:04
  And, you know, that's what we want people to be.
• 30:06
  I think that's right. That's like spiritually for
• 30:08
  sure. What where we come from?
• 30:10
  But then it's like hard not to get.
• 30:12
  I think I saw on Discord someone say which I've said since the
• 30:15
  beginning, like Can you imagine Matt like going and getting a
• 30:18
  stamp somewhere in a store or like or like going to like a
• 30:21
  boxes, etcetera, like send this kind of what in the?
• 30:24
  World so many questions. How does Matt understand how the
• 30:27
  Postal Service? Works no we we yeah we've broken
• 30:30
  stories about that and then if like and we're.
• 30:32
  Just try and honor like OK date. We really look to the past for
• 30:35
  that. Like they seem to have their
• 30:37
  there's spiritual logic to it. Or a suspension of disbelief.
• 30:43
  I mean, like there's a part of it too, where it's just like,
• 30:45
  all right. Like, you know, there's a little
• 30:46
  bit of like lightness to it. Where like, you know, if you, if
• 30:49
  you, if you dig too deep, you, you kind of, you know, it's like
• 30:52
  when you look for the, the, the magic trick to learn the magic,
• 30:55
  you lose the magic. I'm not comparing this to the
• 30:57
  magic trick. I'm just saying, you know,
• 30:58
  there's a little bit of like, OK, the I can't overly
• 31:02
  intellectualize this. What it really comes down to is
• 31:05
  that Matt is writing text on a postcard.
• 31:09
  Gobo is able to read it, but it's pretty clear that the
• 31:12
  Fraggles don't have a written language.
• 31:14
  Yes. Right.
• 31:15
  So first we have to get through that barrier and then we'll talk
• 31:18
  about how the Postal Service works.
• 31:19
  I like to think we kind of stuff nephew.
• 31:22
  There's a short end. This is the kind of stuff that
• 31:25
  truly, yeah, would keep us up at night when we first started this
• 31:29
  project. And I feel like Dave and
• 31:34
  Jocelyn, they're just like they have way where they're like,
• 31:36
  it's cool, baby, It's cool. It's, you know, don't worry
• 31:39
  about it like. Run things.
• 31:41
  Yeah, run things by them. Just be like, how do you feel
• 31:44
  about this? This is our justification for
• 31:45
  it. And if they say, yeah, that's
• 31:46
  very. Sounds.
• 31:47
  Good. Yeah, that's great.
• 31:48
  That's. Great.
• 31:48
  Nice to have Dave and Jocelyn and also Karen Perel, who who,
• 31:55
  like they can kind of give the whole, like, look, this is how
• 31:58
  it was back in the day. And if anyone gets upset about
• 32:00
  it, you can send them to us. It's like, well, I'm not going
• 32:03
  to argue with Karen Brell, you know what I mean?
• 32:05
  Like what she says. Go.
• 32:06
  Yeah, that's it. Yeah.
• 32:07
  It's sort of like if you need like as far as details from the
• 32:10
  first season, there's no greater historian and librarian and
• 32:13
  archivist than Johnny. And then as far as like the
• 32:16
  actual lived experience of creating the show, we've got,
• 32:19
  you know, legends that are still heavily involved in this one.
• 32:23
  So it it, we do feel it's nice. It's good protection for it.
• 32:27
  Selfishly, that's going to get a lot of protection from that.
• 32:30
  Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day,
• 32:32
  my kids just want to know. They're like, they're like, I
• 32:34
  mean, they would. I always just want to know,
• 32:36
  like, what's Uncle Matt sending back this time?
• 32:39
  And I, I, I consider that a victory.
• 32:42
  Yeah, especially because of what he sends back at the end of this
• 32:46
  episode, which we'll get there. We'll get there.
• 32:47
  Yeah, it's the best. One, by the way, you noticed
• 32:49
  Matt Fusfeld at the farmers market as a guy tasting
• 32:51
  strawberry. How was it?
• 32:54
  Yeah. It was it.
• 32:59
  It was good. It was good it.
• 33:00
  Was a funny big tale of that is like the the weird mixing of
• 33:04
  worlds where it's like we're at a farmers market.
• 33:06
  So we had real strawberries. Matt is Matt Fuss?
• 33:08
  Yeah, that's eating. A real strawberry next to a
• 33:11
  very. Nice young guy named Jordan
• 33:13
  who's an up and coming puppeteer.
• 33:14
  So they're eating the strawberries there, but then
• 33:16
  also, if you look on the rack of berries, there are the fraggle
• 33:21
  fake strawberries, because we need to establish that to bring
• 33:24
  it into the world, because we're not going to that really that
• 33:26
  kind of stuff that don't those don't look right together.
• 33:29
  That was just one. It's a fun, but it's just a
• 33:31
  funny like you look at that's a. Headline of like what I'm
• 33:33
  worried about on that day more than anything like is this crazy
• 33:36
  that we're seeing this and also like I don't wanting so badly
• 33:41
  the bit of Uncle Matt being chased by a dog to play but not
• 33:46
  having completely we didn't have like a that was just someone's
• 33:49
  dog there and like really trying to do it on the fly but knowing
• 33:52
  how I would love that gag to play and and and what we're
• 33:56
  actually able to achieve on the day but I think.
• 33:59
  It's fun, my kids. Think it's cool that I'm in the
• 34:02
  in the show. So that's.
• 34:03
  Yeah, it is cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's cool.
• 34:06
  No, it was fun. It is cool.
• 34:07
  Yeah. Alex is in a later episode, by
• 34:09
  the way, that you'll see. My kids didn't go buck wild by
• 34:12
  the way. I was very excited about it, but
• 34:14
  really Joe my my let's my that was like maybe not as pronounced
• 34:18
  as Matt. I'm sweeping.
• 34:20
  I'm the guy sweeping up the gum wrapper in in the episode about
• 34:26
  this. For that it in the behind a.
• 34:29
  New York City janitor. I'm wearing a New York street.
• 34:32
  Like, yeah, I'm wearing a jumpsuit, but my kids did go
• 34:34
  nuts when they saw it. They like.
• 34:36
  They really like. Did they wonder like, did you
• 34:38
  lose your job? No make ends meet, but.
• 34:42
  That's really my 6 year old did ask me or like were you doing
• 34:45
  that that day and they just shot you?
• 34:47
  Like were you doing that job? I'm doing this specifically for
• 34:49
  the show but that's okay. Amazing.
• 34:54
  So yeah, So he brings back the strawberries to Fraggle Rock.
• 34:57
  Everyone loves them. Buber refuses to try them
• 34:59
  because they are a sponge of bacteria that everyone touched
• 35:03
  before it got to him. And you know what?
• 35:04
  He's right. You should wash your fruits
• 35:06
  before you eat it so you don't know where it's been.
• 35:08
  I. Remember going to jam band
• 35:10
  concerts in college where people would hand around but like
• 35:12
  baskets of fruit just as kind of like, hey, we're all sharing.
• 35:15
  I was like, oh, get that away from me.
• 35:17
  Yeah, people are actually. I'm pretending like I just made
• 35:20
  a face there, like I'm the guy at the gym bench.
• 35:22
  I'm like, thank you. Oh my God, this is amazing.
• 35:25
  Thank you. You would say your favorite Navy
• 35:27
  SEAL slogan. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 35:29
  What, are you going to turn down a Peach when it comes?
• 35:32
  No, but you're right. You're right.
• 35:33
  Say good. Good.
• 35:34
  Yes, good, yes. A disgusting cherry, yeah.
• 35:37
  I got a bacterial infection from a yeah.
• 35:40
  Yeah, a little pink eye from the cherry, but you know, the point
• 35:43
  is that Buber is correct to turn it down, but he's.
• 35:45
  Also 100. Percent correct.
• 35:46
  He's also being a curmudgeon, as he does.
• 35:48
  Yeah, there's a plus side to being a curmudgeon.
• 35:51
  That's right. Protect it.
• 35:53
  So up in outer space, Doc has made an important discovery.
• 35:57
  It's inside the Fraggle hole. What could it be?
• 36:00
  It's the exhaust. Fan that we've been staring at
• 36:03
  for years. Finally A use for the fan in
• 36:07
  there. You guys are bringing it into
• 36:08
  the world. And Lily is so good as Doc and
• 36:11
  she's so funny in this episode. I just, I mean, what an amazing
• 36:15
  thing as an actor to just you're playing off of the cutest puppet
• 36:19
  of all time, but still like you're playing off of just a
• 36:21
  puppet and and that's it. She's like a she's just
• 36:24
  soliloquy city. And something makes them like
• 36:27
  and. It just comes off so endearing.
• 36:29
  And you know, that could, you know, that could go a million
• 36:31
  different ways. Just a person talking to
• 36:33
  themselves in a room and you know, she's like, she's so she's
• 36:36
  so great. And so like, she just puts such
• 36:39
  joy and love into that. Character as soon as we thought
• 36:41
  of the wind, just like if there's if Doc causes a
• 36:44
  windstorm by doing like almost immediately, like that's what
• 36:48
  that fan is for that we've been looking at forever, yeah.
• 36:51
  I do love. Getting very excited about,
• 36:52
  Yeah, we got excited. And then having those
• 36:55
  discussions with Tyler, the production designer, and like,
• 36:58
  what that actually would be and like, yeah, it's fascinating.
• 37:05
  Doc talks a bit about she did such successful work last
• 37:09
  season, she got to meet the Dean of her school and there's a
• 37:12
  great photo of her with the Dean.
• 37:15
  Who is it? It's Lisa Henson.
• 37:17
  That's Lisa Hanson. That's a photo shoot we did.
• 37:20
  We did so many. She came to visit set and it was
• 37:24
  super fun. And yeah, that was the that was
• 37:27
  the PS2 resistance. But like.
• 37:29
  I think we did write that one in, by the way.
• 37:31
  I think that was the first. The first draft of the script
• 37:34
  was. Oh yeah, who's going to be the
• 37:36
  Dean of OR? Yeah, Dean, Lisa Hanson.
• 37:38
  I was like, you know, but. The fun we got so many alts of
• 37:42
  like with maybe like sprockets there, like Doc brought brought.
• 37:46
  So we had like a bunch of shots of like, Doc shaking Lisa
• 37:50
  Hanson's hand and then Sprocket there too, like as if.
• 37:54
  She brought her dog. To college to me he.
• 37:56
  Accidentally got into the photo, yeah.
• 37:58
  Yeah, he's like, I'm not missing.
• 37:59
  You're getting, you're getting like celebrated by the Dean.
• 38:02
  Of course I'm coming. I'm in the.
• 38:03
  Car already her family, right? Of course.
• 38:05
  Yeah. I also just love the fact that
• 38:07
  that doc has this look on her face like she is not photogenic.
• 38:11
  Yeah, yeah, she like gigging out over the Dean.
• 38:13
  And Lisa looks. So serious and stern, like
• 38:17
  there's a lot of like what's what's the word like an air of
• 38:22
  of importance to her. Yes, gravitas.
• 38:24
  Yes, gravitas. Thank you.
• 38:26
  And Doc's head is sinking into her shoulders like she just
• 38:29
  doesn't know how to stand in a photo, which seems really
• 38:33
  correct for that character just has no idea to be where the
• 38:36
  where the Dean is, just standing there, almost like a cardboard
• 38:39
  cut out. Like take your picture with me
• 38:41
  and the next person. I feel like I cut you guys off
• 38:44
  when you were about to, like, celebrate Lily Moore and I
• 38:48
  shouldn't have because yeah, she is.
• 38:49
  That's okay, she is. The best I was just going to
• 38:52
  say, the one thing that she does that I love so much on the show
• 38:56
  is how she's not afraid to be a little bit crazy.
• 39:01
  She's not afraid to because the old doc on the old show, Jerry
• 39:05
  Brown's character, like he was aloof, like he didn't like there
• 39:09
  was so much that he just missed and like he was very sure of
• 39:12
  himself. But this doc is like, no, she's
• 39:15
  a little bit weird and she owns up to that and she gets things
• 39:19
  wrong and she owns up to that. And like, she makes funny faces
• 39:21
  and photos and treats her dog like a baby sometimes And like,
• 39:25
  it's, it feels very real and funny.
• 39:27
  And not everyone would would take it to the length that Lily
• 39:30
  Cooper does. I totally appreciate it.
• 39:32
  Yeah, I I right with you. Totally agree.
• 39:36
  It's really nice to hear because yeah, we that is kind of how we
• 39:39
  were. Like, you know, the central
• 39:41
  thing with that when we started talking about this in the
• 39:44
  beginning of it was the relationship with the dog.
• 39:47
  Like how do you treat your dog like you?
• 39:48
  You'd kind of treat it like a baby a lot of times.
• 39:51
  And yeah, was that a criticism? I can't recall of like the
• 39:55
  original that that the original doc was a little bit like meaner
• 40:00
  to Sprocket so. Yeah, we have.
• 40:03
  We have another podcast on a different channel that we do
• 40:08
  through Tough Pigs. It's also called Fraggle Talk.
• 40:09
  We're called Fraggle Talk Classic.
• 40:11
  We're going through the old Fraggle Rock episodes and
• 40:14
  they're kind of discovering as they're going through, like Doc
• 40:16
  is borderline abusive to he really doesn't treat him well
• 40:21
  and it's still fun and funny, but like, that would never fly
• 40:24
  today. It is an interesting thing and
• 40:26
  it's like no excuse, but it is a little bit of a different time
• 40:28
  thing where I think I know. It's also that person like
• 40:31
  perhaps like that was an older person.
• 40:33
  You could see that relationship maybe like it wouldn't, it would
• 40:36
  be weird if it was like a young person do it like you shouldn't
• 40:38
  have a dog then like. Well, it's never intentional.
• 40:42
  He's never, he's never like, oh, that darn dog.
• 40:44
  And then, you know, taking a swing at him.
• 40:45
  It's, it's like, you know, he's, he's not paying attention to the
• 40:48
  fact that Sprocket is so hungry and is holding his bowl up
• 40:51
  because he wants to figure out how to, how to sew a button on a
• 40:54
  fried egg. Right.
• 40:55
  Can't. Get out of that mindset, yeah.
• 40:57
  Right. That's yeah.
• 40:59
  So he's a little nutty, he's a little nuttier, and he's a
• 41:01
  little bit harsher on, on. Yeah.
• 41:04
  Or harsher. Or, you know, unintentionally
• 41:08
  sort. Of oh, by the way, like if you
• 41:09
  know Sprocket, sprocket is eternal and lives forever.
• 41:13
  So when this doc is is that doc's age?
• 41:16
  I would imagine their relationship might more closely
• 41:20
  resemble that one. It's just the evolution of
• 41:23
  getting older. And it's time for a new dock.
• 41:25
  And that's when it's ceremonial, yeah.
• 41:27
  We're gonna dock. That's that's like Doctor Who.
• 41:31
  We're just gonna replace Dock. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 131415 times
• 41:35
  that's. A good.
• 41:37
  Title. That's a really good title for
• 41:38
  season three episode. That's for you.
• 41:40
  That's a freebie. Yeah.
• 41:41
  Thank you. Thank you.
• 41:42
  Yeah, enjoy. So Doc's new idea, because of
• 41:46
  this fan discovery, she's gonna use the fan to study wind
• 41:51
  currents, and she's to blow air into the Fraggle hole.
• 41:55
  And somehow, like that little fan with the exhaust fan, it's
• 42:01
  creating these incredible winds all through Fraggle Rock.
• 42:03
  Everything's being tossed around and there's some amazing visual
• 42:08
  gags here that I have to call out, including.
• 42:11
  A windy Fraggle rock. Very fun.
• 42:14
  A A ink spot dressed as a cow. Obviously a reference to
• 42:19
  Twister. Hysterical.
• 42:21
  We see a Doozer flying around knitting in a rocking chair.
• 42:25
  That's got to be a reference to Wizard of Oz of.
• 42:27
  Course the Twister, the twister classics for sure.
• 42:31
  You got to there's a Doozer on a bike, which I assume might also
• 42:34
  be a Wizard of Oz thing and a Doozer in a kayak.
• 42:38
  I'm not sure what that might be reference to other in fact that
• 42:39
  it's it's adorable. Is it?
• 42:42
  Is that a reference, Karen? Prell Reference Karen Prell is a
• 42:44
  big kayaker, right? Is that?
• 42:47
  I think, yeah, I think it's like also just a hint toward the
• 42:50
  world of the doosers that we don't see everyday.
• 42:52
  You know, they sure, but they have, they have their whole,
• 42:55
  they have a whole life. And I think it's a little
• 42:58
  catchable. Catchable glimpses of that is is
• 43:00
  pretty fun. We also see 4 ink spots like all
• 43:04
  holding hands. Yeah, that's like the skydiver
• 43:06
  routine. Skydiving.
• 43:08
  I think that was one we maybe wrote in to the script.
• 43:12
  You know, we started it's again. So you start to think about
• 43:14
  these things and then you get them on their feet, and then
• 43:17
  everyone has a million new ideas and then the whole thing comes
• 43:19
  together. But yeah, you start to visualize
• 43:21
  what a win sequence would look like.
• 43:23
  That was one of them. So with with these four or five
• 43:27
  gags that just kind of go boom, boom, boom.
• 43:30
  Like I have to, I have to assume you guys had like 15 of them
• 43:33
  written out and these are just the ones that made the screen.
• 43:35
  What were there other things you want to throw into the twister?
• 43:38
  I will say I, I don't, I'm not necessarily recalling specifics
• 43:41
  of things that we should. And maybe maybe Matt, you think
• 43:43
  of it, but I do remember that there were a lot of
• 43:45
  conversations about how violent to make this because obviously
• 43:48
  it is like we need it. We're riding that line where it
• 43:50
  needs to actually be legitimately scary for Wembley
• 43:53
  in particular. But in general, it needs to kind
• 43:56
  of rock them a little, a little bit.
• 43:57
  But it's also like we didn't want to scare.
• 44:00
  Chill doesn't need, you know, the Wizard of Oz.
• 44:02
  Like that scene is scary. It's still scary now when you
• 44:05
  watch it. And it's like, we didn't want to
• 44:07
  do that. It's still Fraggle Rock.
• 44:09
  We wanted there to be a goofiness to it.
• 44:10
  That's why I think that Ink spots coming in are such an
• 44:13
  important part of it. And there are characters that
• 44:16
  are kind of enjoying it, like Moki's kind of enjoying it.
• 44:18
  Pokey's kind of enjoying it. You know, I think that was the
• 44:21
  line we're trying to to walk of that this is, this is an event,
• 44:25
  a serious event happening, but it's not without silliness and
• 44:29
  not without kind of like fun. So that's that's what we're
• 44:32
  trying to find for sure. Well, as you said, Wembley is is
• 44:37
  freaking out over this whole thing and he's holding on to a
• 44:39
  Moss covered rock and the Moss just rips right off.
• 44:42
  It covers and kind of looks like a like a mix of a ghost in a
• 44:45
  parachute. Like a slimer kind of thing
• 44:49
  like. Yeah, yeah, like Slimer, Yeah.
• 44:51
  It looks like stuff from the Moss got on.
• 44:53
  So it kind of looks like a face a little bit.
• 44:55
  I'm not sure if. That was something.
• 44:56
  I missed of something else he was holding on to.
• 44:59
  And he pops up right through the well in the Gorg's garden, just
• 45:03
  as Paw Gorg is like coming out and questioning, you know, is
• 45:06
  this a good idea? Wouldn't wouldn't my father Paw
• 45:10
  Paw be upset about the fact that we're friends with the Fraggles
• 45:13
  now? And he's like, give me a sign.
• 45:16
  And then that's when when Lee as Slimer pops up and screaming.
• 45:21
  So that's a sign that's you've immediately at the beginning of
• 45:24
  this episode. Reset Pennsylvania.
• 45:26
  Gorg. Right, which like again was a
• 45:29
  choice and you know, I and and not not to in any way be
• 45:31
  defensive. I definitely know that, you know
• 45:33
  that we, you know, you guys gave us a little little Flack for
• 45:36
  that, you know, choice. Just a little bit, just a
• 45:38
  little. Bit in a loving, in a loving
• 45:40
  way, in a loving relationship. We need to be able to talk about
• 45:43
  these things, you know, but the yeah.
• 45:46
  And I totally hear you. But I at the same time, you
• 45:49
  know, I think with the, the reason we make the choice, and I
• 45:51
  think the reason we would probably make it again is that,
• 45:55
  you know, on Gory's thousands of years old, he's been taught a
• 45:59
  lot about what Fraggles are. I think there was a moment at
• 46:03
  the end of the first season where, you know, he had to come
• 46:05
  around and we love that he came around and had a new perspective
• 46:07
  on it. But I think in the in the, in
• 46:10
  the nature of of characters, he's definitely a character
• 46:14
  that's going to slide back in and he's not going to change is
• 46:17
  going to be really hard for him. And the idea of of a new dynamic
• 46:21
  with the Fraggles is not something that's just going to
• 46:23
  sit there easily for him. I think he's going to be looking
• 46:26
  for the very first excuse to go back to the way he was.
• 46:30
  And then we could set him up for a more gradual journey over the
• 46:33
  course of the season, obviously, as we start to get into who he
• 46:36
  is as a king, who who Ma is as a queen, what their relationship
• 46:40
  is like actually moving them into a new place toward the end
• 46:43
  of the season. But yeah, we, we really did want
• 46:45
  to quickly, intentionally, quickly reset pot the beginning
• 46:48
  of the season. And that's when all the pieces
• 46:50
  started to come together of okay, well, how do we get a
• 46:52
  strawberry seed up into the up into the garden?
• 46:56
  How do we, how do we get ha to, you know, get to shift back to
• 47:00
  his little perspective? And then the windstorm and
• 47:02
  Wembley and all those pieces started to come together of a
• 47:05
  mistaken ghost and Wembley carrying the strawberry up
• 47:08
  there. And it kind of was this very
• 47:10
  efficient thing. But I I totally we we hear well.
• 47:13
  It's the interesting part of of, I mean, yeah, it looks like if
• 47:17
  it's the interesting part of this format and in general, like
• 47:20
  if we had the luxury, we're writing a book like, yeah, maybe
• 47:24
  we would spend like several chapters with paw inside his
• 47:28
  head. But I think that's also like
• 47:30
  what the what's so great about this show is like that
• 47:33
  completely is what that guy would do.
• 47:35
  He would just be like, it's all very speed up.
• 47:38
  But it is like, Oh yeah, I'm looking for an an excuse to not
• 47:42
  accept these these please give. Me a sign yes so.
• 47:45
  It's almost, if anything, running into it a little, a
• 47:48
  little harder, but yeah. And a little silliness.
• 47:50
  There's definitely stuff that we do on the show that's like
• 47:52
  purposefully silly in its simplicity, you know, like
• 47:55
  pause, switching back, like pause, pause an idiot, you know,
• 47:58
  and like he, it's fun to think of him having these real hard
• 48:04
  swings and really, really silly ways.
• 48:06
  And it's also like, why the show?
• 48:08
  Why we kind of engage in real physical metaphor on the show
• 48:11
  and real kind of like, literalism sometimes, you know,
• 48:14
  IE the echo chamber from last season, which is another thing
• 48:17
  we've, like, heard Flack about oddly more this year, looking
• 48:21
  back on it rather than at the time.
• 48:23
  But, you know, the idea of like, OK, it's a literal echo chamber.
• 48:25
  It's like, yeah, yeah, it's a literal echo chamber.
• 48:28
  Like I think it's fine. The phrase echo chamber is
• 48:31
  already a metaphor. Yeah, it's, you know what I
• 48:33
  mean? Like, that's that's fine.
• 48:34
  That you metaphor that I I do want to say about pot, you know,
• 48:37
  I understand that Fraggle Rock historically, and this also has
• 48:42
  more to do with like TV shows that are a little bit more
• 48:44
  episodic than serialized in general from that era.
• 48:48
  But like there is a status quo that we always have to kind of
• 48:50
  get back to at the end. And it's not really until the
• 48:52
  end of the series when the Gorg start to come around.
• 48:55
  So I understand there's a little bit of getting back to the
• 48:58
  status quo and definitely a lot of what we where there's
• 49:02
  conflict, there's story. And so like you want to get to a
• 49:05
  place where like if everything's always hunky Dory in the Gorg's
• 49:08
  garden, then it's almost too easy.
• 49:10
  We need to create some conflict there.
• 49:12
  The issue that I personally had with it was how quick that came.
• 49:16
  I want, I wanted to see and you guys talked about this earlier
• 49:19
  about you did have more of this in earlier drafts, but I want to
• 49:23
  see what does it look like that the Fraggles and the Gorgs are
• 49:25
  getting together, getting along before, you know, everything
• 49:29
  kind of goes to pot and we have to take two steps back before we
• 49:33
  take three steps forward. No, I totally hear you.
• 49:35
  And that was one of these like reality of production things.
• 49:37
  And that was our, that's what we wanted to honestly, I think it's
• 49:40
  what he wanted. I think there was just, there
• 49:42
  was a literal number of minutes we could spend, you know, and,
• 49:47
  and, and production days that we could spend.
• 49:49
  The Gorg's garden is really complicated for shooting and so
• 49:54
  that we are we are often put in the position to find ways to
• 49:57
  simplify those stories. And I totally hear you.
• 50:00
  I think that it's like we kind of did our best as far as
• 50:04
  establishing the dynamic of the song and then in passing with
• 50:07
  the frog was walking through and saying, you know, value your
• 50:09
  friendship and that kind of thing.
• 50:10
  But we but yes, we did kind of miss out on the opportunity to
• 50:13
  spend, you know, ideally you want like the first act to have
• 50:18
  a good meaty scene where you see what it's like where you to have
• 50:21
  the Fraggles and Gorgs in harmony.
• 50:23
  And we did miss that. And I totally hear you.
• 50:26
  It's it's, it's missing from the episode.
• 50:28
  I mean, the real thing, the real problem here is nothing that you
• 50:31
  guys did or didn't do. It's the fact that Apple TV only
• 50:34
  got 13 episodes of this season. If there were 26 then you would
• 50:40
  have had plenty of time. No, it is.
• 50:42
  It is. Yeah, exactly.
• 50:43
  Then we. Just I think that's something we
• 50:45
  value, Alex and I value a lot in our partnership is, you know,
• 50:51
  self reflection be like, all right, that's interesting.
• 50:54
  Like we learned something about this was the first time we ever
• 50:58
  did this and would we do it differently next time?
• 51:01
  Maybe, maybe not, but it's like always taking these these
• 51:04
  lessons and like, I think that's kind of the nature of being
• 51:08
  like, you know, any kind of artist, right, That you're
• 51:11
  constantly learning and improving and trying and just
• 51:15
  yeah, taking the lessons. But it is interesting and we
• 51:17
  totally, yeah, it makes me we definitely think about it and
• 51:21
  and hear the reaction. But at the same time, yeah, also
• 51:25
  stand by it too, of course. Like it's not, you know, it's
• 51:29
  not like we were doing in the vacuum either.
• 51:32
  Like we, we always listen to sort of the feedback around us.
• 51:35
  And I wish you were there, Joe, I guess, is what I'm saying.
• 51:38
  Thank you. There the next time, yeah, no,
• 51:41
  not only. So then I could see in the
• 51:43
  corner where you guys are making decisions.
• 51:44
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I.
• 51:46
  Do think you're, you're representing the opinion that we
• 51:48
  all kind of had as far as like the dream version of it, you
• 51:50
  know, and I think that that because of just like condensing
• 51:53
  and production stuff, there was, there was a, there was a certain
• 51:55
  reality of needing to do all that a lot quicker.
• 51:58
  So OK, let's make a goofy benefit.
• 52:00
  Let's make it a. Let's make it a goofy and also.
• 52:02
  Just not wanting to make it like a a melodrama, you know, it's
• 52:05
  like, I don't want, you know, like that's also, I think that's
• 52:08
  a big driving force behind what we bring to it.
• 52:12
  It's like, let's we know, we know what the ethos of this show
• 52:16
  is and spiritually what it wants to be.
• 52:17
  But like, let's make sure it's quick and funny too, you know?
• 52:23
  Yeah, absolutely. So as as ridiculous.
• 52:25
  I mean, that's the that's how you end up with Wembley popping
• 52:30
  up out of the well in a ghost Moss ghost costume, saying like,
• 52:34
  no, no, no. And like that's how you end up
• 52:36
  with that. And it's like, yeah, I mean,
• 52:38
  even saying it makes me smile so.
• 52:40
  I don't know. Yeah.
• 52:41
  No, I I'm right there with you. I also don't want you guys to
• 52:44
  think that I'm actually criticizing.
• 52:46
  Oh no, no. When?
• 52:47
  You when you put together. This is truly you're the only
• 52:48
  person we can have this conversation with.
• 52:50
  Yeah, exactly. These are questions that are
• 52:53
  raised by the fans. And like, you know, there's
• 52:55
  always answers, there's always a, a satisfying answer these
• 52:58
  things. But like, you know, like we
• 53:00
  gotta talk about this stuff. No for sure.
• 53:03
  So traveling, Matt is so impressed by Gobo's bravery
• 53:07
  during the windstorm that he invites him to come out to outer
• 53:10
  space. As we discussed doing it all
• 53:12
  over again. Yeah, Yeah.
• 53:14
  So he's excitedly going to tell his friends, but Wembley is so
• 53:17
  shaken up by the winds and he's clutching his little Wembley
• 53:20
  doll, which is adorable. And we talked about this last
• 53:23
  season too, but. Like what a great problem
• 53:25
  Wembley. Wembley, Probably one of the
• 53:27
  cutest things on the show, I would say.
• 53:29
  I also wondered, is this like the Fraggle equivalent of the
• 53:32
  American Girl doll? Like does everyone just go like
• 53:34
  get a doll that looks like themselves?
• 53:37
  I'll tell you one thing. I don't know if Wembley's he's
• 53:40
  going to, he's going to bring that to the Navy Seals.
• 53:43
  I just hope. I hope they hope.
• 53:45
  Everyone's cool. Easy on them you know I hope
• 53:46
  they're not yeah cuz he I'm worried about him in the Navy
• 53:49
  SEAL I. Don't know, everyone in the Navy
• 53:51
  Seal's already has a stuffed SEAL from what I understand so
• 53:55
  that makes sense. That's what's why they call them
• 53:57
  that, right? They give you, Yeah, they give
• 53:59
  you one when you enlist. Yeah, that's the only.
• 54:01
  That's why half the people do it, yeah.
• 54:03
  Yeah, if you're lucky, you're like when those old seals with
• 54:06
  the sunglasses. So cool.
• 54:09
  So cool. Yeah, Gobo asked Wembley if a
• 54:14
  trip to the trash heap would help.
• 54:16
  And I just love this scene. Wembley goes maybe, and Gobo
• 54:20
  says let's turn that maybe into a Yay B.
• 54:24
  The B stands for Boomer and Boomer is just talking about.
• 54:28
  Boomer is like, leave me out of this.
• 54:29
  I don't know what you're. I don't know what you're doing,
• 54:32
  but leave me out of it. Yeah.
• 54:33
  I, we. We.
• 54:35
  Good stuff, love. Like getting to like.
• 54:37
  I think that was born from watching Johnny perform.
• 54:41
  I was going to ask. That and then writing, I was
• 54:43
  like, oh, we know exact. Getting to know his voice and be
• 54:46
  able to write for it. And then, you know, Frank
• 54:49
  Meskowitz playing Boober on set too.
• 54:51
  He's just got it. And it's it's very satisfying.
• 54:55
  I love that especially, you know, I think one thing that I'm
• 54:58
  I'm going to be trying to call out a lot as I rewatch this
• 55:01
  season for this podcast is specifically things characters
• 55:05
  that are performed by John Tartaglia and wondering, is this
• 55:09
  in the script or is this in John just messing around on on set?
• 55:12
  He does and. This was one of those moments, I
• 55:14
  don't know, but he's. Constantly bringing something to
• 55:16
  it. I mean, that's the thing about
• 55:17
  Johnny. It's like he can make something
• 55:19
  out of nothing. I mean, there are times where
• 55:21
  just because of the nature of how the shows come together,
• 55:24
  there might be an entire musical sequence where all we know is
• 55:26
  like the song is great and we know what what story wise it's
• 55:31
  doing. But he may in, in, in the moment
• 55:34
  there put together half of the elements or more than half the
• 55:37
  elements that you're seeing as part of that song sequence.
• 55:40
  And it's just Johnny being Johnny and being able to rally
• 55:43
  people really quickly. There is like a as much as we
• 55:46
  are able to storyboard and plan, there is still so much just
• 55:49
  because that's the way production goes where it is
• 55:51
  doing things very, very quickly sometimes.
• 55:54
  And he, he's an incredible kind of master of ceremonies in that
• 55:59
  way. I think we've really, yeah, I
• 56:02
  think our, you know, Alex and I are a team, but the, the sort of
• 56:08
  partnership we have with Johnny, it's really awesome because he's
• 56:11
  there the whole time. So I, I guess the shorthand that
• 56:15
  we have developed now with him with, you know, it's hard just
• 56:21
  working those, those types of scenes out, that type of.
• 56:25
  Pat Patter. For Gobo, it's funny, like we'll
• 56:30
  send audio messages back and forth or just text, I'll text
• 56:33
  him like, hey, Johnny did like what does the architect think
• 56:37
  about? Did he watch the Oscars this
• 56:39
  year? And he just he's so like game
• 56:42
  and all right back. I did, I watch it.
• 56:44
  I was. And he's he's just, yeah, we
• 56:46
  have a really fun. We have a really fun partnership
• 56:49
  with Johnny now that I think allows us to write a lot of
• 56:51
  stuff and he comes up. I mean, it's, it's just a great
• 56:54
  partnership. It's mutually beneficial.
• 56:55
  We can try stuff on the on the page and then he can take that
• 56:58
  and and like take it into a totally different dimension, you
• 57:01
  know? That's great and and hysterical
• 57:03
  and it's got to be so much fun. I love it.
• 57:06
  Very fun. So the Fraggles visit.
• 57:09
  Visit the trash heap, she tells them.
• 57:12
  It sounds like the winds came from whistling.
• 57:14
  I think there's a bit right there, if I'm not mistaken, that
• 57:16
  the phyllo and guns are like, yes, they're like hold on, hold
• 57:19
  on, they're coming. Like, you get, like, a tiny
• 57:21
  glimpse, like a half second before they like, oh, they're
• 57:24
  coming. Like, yeah.
• 57:25
  Right, because and like, as we'll see in a second too, like
• 57:28
  we kind of have to every so often remind the viewer why
• 57:32
  Philo and guns are there. They're not just there to like,
• 57:35
  you know, pump her up, but like, they're like, OK, like, the
• 57:38
  Fraggles are coming. Get ready.
• 57:40
  You know, you do a big entrance or in this moment, Boober has a
• 57:44
  little exchange with them where he says, oh, look, if she ever
• 57:46
  has any laundry that she needs done, you know, he's happy to
• 57:50
  help. And they're like, that's our
• 57:52
  job. And he's like, I can tell.
• 57:55
  I'll feel about it. That's a perfect example where
• 57:58
  like that was the joke that we wrote and I remember being on
• 58:00
  set and I'm like it's. Pretty.
• 58:02
  Good. It's sort of working, but can
• 58:05
  use Johnny is Gunge and and Dan is Philo.
• 58:10
  And I was like, can you guys just like really, really be
• 58:13
  offended by that? Like, even more.
• 58:15
  And that's that prolonged, like taking their time, like, yeah.
• 58:20
  Including some sort of sound that's like, it's sort of sound
• 58:24
  you can barely make and it's it makes no sense.
• 58:27
  And it also is exactly right for the scene, so.
• 58:30
  But like on its own, that joke probably is is just stands OK,
• 58:34
  but that is what makes the joke. And like, that's a perfect
• 58:37
  example of the collaboration I. Think I mean everyone is so
• 58:39
  playful. Everyone is just like that's the
• 58:41
  whole that's the whole thing. It's like everybody's just very
• 58:44
  playful and very down to just try stuff and and lay.
• 58:47
  Everybody inhabits the characters and you start to get
• 58:49
  these little dynamics, you know, between the performers,
• 58:53
  particularly like there's some great duos of being a Phylo and
• 58:56
  guns. You're on the Duoser side, turbo
• 58:58
  and wrench or architect and Cotter pin.
• 59:00
  You get these, you know, and you know, it's such a repertoire of
• 59:04
  of, of, of players that come in and out and they inhabit these
• 59:07
  do 2 little, you know, little dynamics as we go and it's just
• 59:11
  very. It's funny with Marjorie, like
• 59:12
  Amy Garcia is one of the funniest people in the world,
• 59:16
  but I feel like as I'm thinking about it, she's under such like
• 59:20
  duress to like operate like, I don't think she gets as much
• 59:25
  freedom, like literally to, to play as much as she could in in
• 59:29
  those scenes because. She's just Marjorie.
• 59:31
  Yeah, Marjorie isn't. Is goofy a character in that way
• 59:34
  too? There is like, you know,
• 59:35
  Marjorie can be goofy, but there is always kind of right, kind of
• 59:38
  like, you know, weight of of wisdom there so.
• 59:42
  That's a tough puppet to operate.
• 59:44
  It's tough. I feel like tough.
• 59:45
  Ingrid. Ingrid.
• 59:46
  And they've explained it. Yeah, they've.
• 59:48
  Explained it to me of like how that puppet works and I still
• 59:52
  can't picture it. Yeah, no, I will promise.
• 59:54
  You'll see it. OK.
• 59:56
  And you'll still not. Get you still won't get it.
• 59:58
  Yeah, yeah. I don't, I don't really.
• 59:59
  Yeah, yeah, we we've been around a lot.
• 1:00:01
  Like could not. That could not adequately.
• 1:00:03
  I guess we could ask to get in it maybe, but that feels like
• 1:00:06
  out of bounds I. Don't.
• 1:00:07
  I mean, they're definitely inside of.
• 1:00:09
  Yeah, yeah, they. Fold themselves down on the
• 1:00:11
  ground. When When, When Marjorie returns
• 1:00:13
  into the earth. It's incredibly physical.
• 1:00:15
  I mean, all of the puppets are so physical, but Marjorie is
• 1:00:18
  physical in a very unusual way. Yeah, I bet.
• 1:00:21
  I'm sure. Yeah, so we get our second song
• 1:00:23
  here. The song is called a OK as the
• 1:00:26
  Fraggles are getting to Whistling Hollow.
• 1:00:29
  Whistling Hollow is made-up of all these upward facing
• 1:00:31
  windpipes. Kind of looks like like.
• 1:00:33
  A pan flute, kind of. Thing yeah, like a pan flute
• 1:00:35
  like a like an organ or something.
• 1:00:38
  The ink spots are back. They're dancing with these multi
• 1:00:41
  colored umbrellas like the singing in the rain thing.
• 1:00:45
  And during the song we see two older Fraggle rock puppets,
• 1:00:51
  Mudwell the mud Bunny and Aretha.
• 1:00:53
  Yeah they're they're kind of mentioned in song.
• 1:00:55
  I'm sorry I didn't write down the exact lyrics, but something
• 1:00:57
  about like scary monsters and they they are two slightly scary
• 1:01:00
  looking puppets. Now is this the kind of thing
• 1:01:03
  where like you guys would write that into the scripts or is it
• 1:01:06
  just like just find 2 characters that look a little scary and
• 1:01:10
  someone would just pull something that looks fraggle?
• 1:01:12
  I mean, that's the perfect example of like, that's just
• 1:01:15
  like on the ground collaboration between all of us and Johnny in
• 1:01:19
  particular and the shop, there's a conversation between Johnny as
• 1:01:22
  public captain and the creature shop, which is unbelievable and
• 1:01:28
  kind of robust. Scottys kind of a historian too,
• 1:01:31
  right? Was Scotty involved in the first
• 1:01:33
  one? I mean he just is a wealth of
• 1:01:35
  information. But they have so.
• 1:01:37
  Many characters there to play with.
• 1:01:38
  So there's always a creature shop walk that's part of the
• 1:01:41
  production meeting process for every episode.
• 1:01:43
  So we'll do a, you know, you do several, you do kind of what's
• 1:01:46
  called a concept meeting where you're kind of talking big
• 1:01:48
  picture. All right, here's the sort of
• 1:01:50
  that's all. Get our heads collectively into
• 1:01:51
  these zones. Here are the things we need to
• 1:01:53
  figure out. Then once you know what you're
• 1:01:55
  trying to figure out, then we break into departments and do
• 1:01:58
  walkthroughs. So maybe walking through the
• 1:02:00
  set, where can we put this, do it?
• 1:02:02
  What do we need built? Is there anything we can reuse?
• 1:02:04
  And then you're like, all right, what are these musical numbers?
• 1:02:06
  What are the characters we want to see in them?
• 1:02:08
  Then we're breaking down the lyrics and looking at it.
• 1:02:10
  Like you said, that wasn't necessarily something we put in
• 1:02:12
  the script, but when you're looking at the lyrics of the
• 1:02:14
  song, you're like, well, let's do something fun for this moment
• 1:02:16
  and you're in the shop and you're looking around.
• 1:02:19
  Perfect moment to bring out this old character.
• 1:02:21
  And so there's just a lot of actual physical interaction with
• 1:02:26
  the world of the show, which is always there on set, you know,
• 1:02:29
  so whether it's on camera or not, everything is always there.
• 1:02:32
  You know, we just have every and then new things that we're
• 1:02:35
  constantly building. So there's an ability to be
• 1:02:38
  really nimble and actually physically walk through the
• 1:02:41
  universe of Fraggle Rock and pull things into moments as they
• 1:02:44
  are appropriate. But I'm going to put my money.
• 1:02:46
  I'm going to put my money that only Johnny would really know
• 1:02:49
  how to, like, land the significance of those specific
• 1:02:52
  characters. I'm going to, yeah.
• 1:02:54
  But Jordan got really Jordan man, Jordan Canning, who Matt
• 1:02:57
  was mentioning earlier, who is our producing director this
• 1:03:00
  season. And she directed this episode
• 1:03:01
  specifically and many of the other amazing episodes the
• 1:03:05
  season. But she was creative director or
• 1:03:08
  creative consultant director, producer for the entire season.
• 1:03:11
  She got really into pulling specific froggles for specific
• 1:03:15
  moments. I think she just like she just
• 1:03:17
  likes it so much. She just has such like a fun
• 1:03:19
  infectious joy with it. So I think, you know, I think
• 1:03:22
  she and Johnny together were really active in in making sure
• 1:03:25
  that that the scenes were populated with really cool
• 1:03:27
  fraggles from the original. Nice.
• 1:03:29
  Yeah, in outer space, Duck has this new huge industrial fan and
• 1:03:37
  she blows from the. Dude at the college, I forget
• 1:03:38
  his name but yeah, the guy hooked her up with the biggest
• 1:03:41
  fan that they had. It was Jerry.
• 1:03:43
  Jerry. Of course, Jerry.
• 1:03:45
  Yes. Jerry doesn't play.
• 1:03:47
  Was it? Was it a reference to Jerry
• 1:03:49
  Jewell? Jerry Nelson?
• 1:03:50
  Was it just Jerry? I I think it was, I think it was
• 1:03:53
  a reference to both. Now that you, now that you
• 1:03:55
  remind me, I think, yeah. So no, none of the names are
• 1:03:57
  ever, ever random. So I think, yeah, that's.
• 1:04:00
  Good, I'm glad to hear that. So yes, she blows wind through
• 1:04:04
  Fraggle Rock again. Gobo's like it's all fine, it's
• 1:04:07
  not a biggly diggly, but then once the winds start up, Gobo is
• 1:04:12
  thrown around like a rag doll, which is always fun to see
• 1:04:15
  Fraggles thrown around like rag dolls.
• 1:04:19
  That was the honestly the yeah, you build the scene out from
• 1:04:23
  there. Like, how do we get a scene
• 1:04:24
  where they're being thrown back? Yeah.
• 1:04:26
  And also one of my favorite lines, I think.
• 1:04:29
  I think, Gobo, I think you and I differ on what is and is not a
• 1:04:33
  biggly, biggly from Red. Yes.
• 1:04:38
  So after the windstorm, Wembley asked Gobo once again if it's
• 1:04:42
  all going to be OK, And Gobo admits he doesn't know.
• 1:04:45
  And Wembley actually feels a lot better now that he knows that
• 1:04:48
  he's not alone. They all the Fraggles grab onto
• 1:04:52
  the Moss like Wembley did before, and they ride it out
• 1:04:55
  like a parachute. Right, and we probably because
• 1:04:58
  that's really that's the moment where Wembley's like, you know,
• 1:05:01
  we we're not going to fight it. You know, the fighting maybe
• 1:05:03
  that it's a little bit of the introduction of what will become
• 1:05:06
  kind of a season long metaphor is like, you know, not not go
• 1:05:10
  where the wind blows you as as Wembley explains the next
• 1:05:13
  episode. But there is a little bit of
• 1:05:14
  acceptance and a little bit of like, you know, of of rolling
• 1:05:17
  with it that allows for some more freedom within the
• 1:05:20
  situation. So that was the kind of first
• 1:05:22
  version of that that we played with in this episode where
• 1:05:25
  Wembley says maybe we don't fight it and and he they just
• 1:05:27
  hold on and all of a sudden it becomes like a like a parachute
• 1:05:31
  or like a little, you know, hot air balloon that carries them
• 1:05:34
  box. It's it's a ride now.
• 1:05:36
  It's a ride. It's not.
• 1:05:37
  A It's not a bug, it's a feature.
• 1:05:39
  Yeah, exactly. So once they make it back to
• 1:05:45
  Fraggle Rock, Gobo tells travelling Matt he can't go with
• 1:05:47
  him in outer space. There's something weird
• 1:05:49
  happening and he's got to stick around this to figure out what
• 1:05:53
  to do with his friends. So Matt says cool as we
• 1:05:57
  establish no big deal. He'll just take someone else.
• 1:06:02
  Someone calm someone. Who could that be?
• 1:06:05
  Who could it be? Yeah, it's pogey.
• 1:06:08
  It's Pogey. I love Pogey's backpack, by the
• 1:06:09
  way. They created such a great
• 1:06:11
  camping backpack for Pogey with just all kinds of stuff strapped
• 1:06:14
  on there in Pogey. 'S I share the the discord
• 1:06:18
  message board too of like oh man, it would have been nice to
• 1:06:22
  see pogey and that's. What I was going to.
• 1:06:24
  Bring up. I know that never even that
• 1:06:26
  would that is a version of like breaking the rules that we did
• 1:06:32
  not feel comfortable with doing yet, but totally agree.
• 1:06:36
  I know it may have been worth it.
• 1:06:37
  Just the joke. I think it's like, you know,
• 1:06:39
  we're obviously building toward a moment where there's going to
• 1:06:41
  be a much sort of bigger interaction between Fraggles and
• 1:06:45
  outer space. And like we have, we have a
• 1:06:47
  loose plan for what we want that to be what we're building
• 1:06:50
  toward. And we just weren't, you know,
• 1:06:52
  on balance, we weren't ready to do it.
• 1:06:54
  We weren't really Joe. We weren't.
• 1:06:56
  Ready, you know, Well, here's the thing.
• 1:06:58
  It would. You're right.
• 1:06:58
  It would have broken some rules that would have felt really
• 1:07:01
  unnatural to have like a travelling Mat postcard.
• 1:07:03
  And Pokey is also there. Like, that would have felt like,
• 1:07:06
  like a Poochie moment of like, we've got this breakout
• 1:07:09
  character and we want them to always be there and, you know,
• 1:07:12
  give travelling mat a sidekick. We don't need any of that.
• 1:07:14
  Yeah, I would have like, now, not to say I'm at the of the
• 1:07:18
  caliber of the rest of your writers, but if I were in the
• 1:07:20
  writers room, I would have at least pitched like they make it
• 1:07:22
  as far as Doc's workshop and then Hoagie does something so
• 1:07:26
  unforgivably stupid that we have to send them back immediately.
• 1:07:31
  No, Tom, that that is, that is, that's really fun.
• 1:07:35
  And you know, like you said, it's like we made, you know, we
• 1:07:37
  have these conversations and we made the choice and this we
• 1:07:39
  started, we decided to lean into the kind of false ending and the
• 1:07:42
  flip joke of the first package. You know what I mean?
• 1:07:46
  The downside, obviously, if you see him out in the, if you see
• 1:07:49
  Pogey, you know, if you see them out in the world, out in outer
• 1:07:53
  space, then you know that they're gonna get sent back.
• 1:07:56
  So the I guess part of it was like, okay, the part of the fun
• 1:08:01
  is just the surprise of seeing pogey pop back out of that
• 1:08:04
  package. But you know, your point is
• 1:08:06
  good, and you're and I. Totally.
• 1:08:07
  Well, I also feel like there's, I mean, there's no reason that
• 1:08:09
  we can't have season 3 Pogey talking about their time when I
• 1:08:13
  was in outer space because there was a, I mean, a couple of days
• 1:08:17
  like they made it to the to the mailbox store before.
• 1:08:20
  Like it would be really funny to see like these insane glimpses
• 1:08:24
  of what Pogy was up to in outer space in those few days.
• 1:08:27
  Need to for whatever story thing I won't, I won't tip toe, but
• 1:08:30
  for they need to understand outer space a little bit more
• 1:08:32
  because of a problem. Yeah, Pogy could have a
• 1:08:35
  perspective on that and they should give a little.
• 1:08:37
  Yeah, just a funny little story of being out there that we could
• 1:08:40
  see a glimpse of things. Or at the very least, again,
• 1:08:44
  spitballing ideas of things that are never going to happen
• 1:08:46
  because it's already done and filmed in out on the air.
• 1:08:49
  But you know, in the first episode of the original series,
• 1:08:52
  when Matt goes into outer space for the very first time, the
• 1:08:54
  first thing you all he does is he walks outside, he has a weird
• 1:08:58
  encounter with a fire hydrant and he's like, this is way too
• 1:09:03
  crazy. I'll just tell Gobo I'm fine.
• 1:09:05
  So like to do something like that where Pogo Pogie is like,
• 1:09:09
  like, the craziest thing happened and literally you made
• 1:09:12
  it as far as the sidewalk. Yeah.
• 1:09:14
  Right before turning around and you're like, I have this crazy
• 1:09:17
  experience out in outer space, right?
• 1:09:19
  You know? None of that happened, Yeah.
• 1:09:21
  Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:09:22
  Yeah. That's fine.
• 1:09:24
  So we get a little tease for what's coming up with the rest
• 1:09:27
  of the season. The strawberry that Wembley
• 1:09:29
  drops in the Gorks Garden is starting to take root.
• 1:09:32
  That's exactly how strawberries work, by the way.
• 1:09:34
  That's exactly how you drop them in the soil and they immediately
• 1:09:38
  start to listen. One of our 80s, Emily Renner
• 1:09:41
  Wallace, came up to me and was like, I have to show you
• 1:09:45
  something like here's a Wikipedia page about.
• 1:09:48
  I just worried. I was like, oh boy, oh boy, that
• 1:09:51
  was a real emergency. Moment and to that we say not in
• 1:09:54
  the gorge's garden there's something going on yes gorge's
• 1:09:56
  garden that allows the seed to be kind of like pulled from the.
• 1:10:00
  It's like lost. The.
• 1:10:01
  Island of Lost things don't work the same, yeah.
• 1:10:04
  Well, and it's not, it's not a strawberry, it's a sweet radish.
• 1:10:08
  It's a totally. Different thing exactly.
• 1:10:09
  Totally. Yeah, Yeah.
• 1:10:12
  There was like a little like, oh God, I don't want to be teaching
• 1:10:15
  kids like the wrong lesson here, but you think.
• 1:10:18
  That is real. Obviously, there's the part
• 1:10:19
  that's real. The part it's not.
• 1:10:20
  Strawberries do grow like weeds and they do take over, you know,
• 1:10:23
  so that part of it is real. It's not exactly how they would
• 1:10:27
  take root of the garden, but, you know, listen.
• 1:10:29
  And orange strawberries, the only fruit that have the seeds
• 1:10:32
  on the outside. So yeah, maybe would take root a
• 1:10:35
  little bit faster, yeah. Exactly.
• 1:10:37
  Decompose first, I don't know. Yeah.
• 1:10:39
  And there was residual gorgomax that was already in the garden.
• 1:10:42
  Front of. Course, the Gorgomax, yeah, the
• 1:10:47
  Doosers are starting to build wind turbines.
• 1:10:49
  That's going to take us through the season as well.
• 1:10:51
  Doc is keeping on with her research on wind power.
• 1:10:55
  And then as we just discussed, there's A tag at the end where
• 1:10:59
  Gobo brings back his first package from Uncle Matt.
• 1:11:01
  Postcard just says, dear nephew Gobo, it was a mistake.
• 1:11:05
  And there's Bobe back in Fraggle Rock.
• 1:11:08
  Yep. That brings us to the end of
• 1:11:12
  season 2, episode one. Do you guys have any other
• 1:11:15
  reflections on this episode? Anything else that stood out to
• 1:11:18
  you that we maybe didn't get to? You know, no, I think just
• 1:11:22
  talking it through, it's just it's fun to remember all of the,
• 1:11:25
  you know, all of the wild times of the writers room coming
• 1:11:28
  together, early conversations with the production designer,
• 1:11:31
  early to conversations with, you know, everybody involved about
• 1:11:34
  sort of the ambition for the seasons.
• 1:11:36
  And I do think that, you know, it's, it's fun to remember
• 1:11:40
  starting that journey and re watching this episode definitely
• 1:11:42
  had that effect on me. Where remember Alex?
• 1:11:44
  Like, I feel like the most LA moment of all time was Tyler
• 1:11:49
  Heron. The production designer was in
• 1:11:50
  LA, I want to say for the Emmys. Maybe it was something else, but
• 1:11:55
  we got together with. Them.
• 1:11:57
  And we were poolside and we were like, yeah, you know, we're
• 1:12:00
  thinking about doing like a wind, a wind theme season.
• 1:12:04
  And he was just immediately like, yeah, I see the, he's a
• 1:12:07
  very deep way. He just like I see that she see
• 1:12:11
  that big turbine in the in the Gorg's garden.
• 1:12:15
  And just, yeah, it does bring back good memory.
• 1:12:17
  No, yeah. It's such a journey and there's
• 1:12:20
  so many. And really that thing truly of
• 1:12:23
  like everybody, like the bat signal this time it wasn't like
• 1:12:26
  putting together the new team. It was like we got it.
• 1:12:28
  We got the green light, so here we go.
• 1:12:29
  Like now we just got going before now.
• 1:12:32
  Now it's really get going. Yeah.
• 1:12:34
  And it it's, it's fun to just remember how much everybody
• 1:12:37
  loves working on the show. You know, it's such an
• 1:12:39
  incredible crew in Calgary and so many talented people that
• 1:12:41
  come together. And I think to a person you just
• 1:12:43
  hear over and over again, like how this is everybody's favorite
• 1:12:46
  job and it's our favorite job too.
• 1:12:48
  So it's, yeah, it's really something special.
• 1:12:52
  I hope we get to do more of them.
• 1:12:53
  I feel like we will. We hope so too.
• 1:12:55
  That's it's actually very important to me that you get to
• 1:12:59
  do more Fraggle Rock. Yes.
• 1:13:00
  Especially across YEAH coming to Calgary.
• 1:13:03
  Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:13:04
  Well, now that we've said it, it's not going to happen that
• 1:13:06
  we've. I know I.
• 1:13:08
  Know no, you're not coming. Joe, forget it.
• 1:13:09
  You can't come right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:13:12
  Yeah, so much for Fraggle promises.
• 1:13:14
  Jeez. Yeah.
• 1:13:16
  So Matt and Alex, as we're wrapping up, an important
• 1:13:19
  question to ask both of you, how do you plan to make this world a
• 1:13:24
  little fragglier? It's such a good, it's such a
• 1:13:27
  good question because I think it's like, you know, everything
• 1:13:29
  we do in the show, we try to sort of have it mirror actual
• 1:13:33
  kind of human interaction with the world.
• 1:13:35
  And you know, I think being out in the world, finding the
• 1:13:40
  silliness of regular moments find like I find I now I have
• 1:13:44
  pretty small kids and I think when I'm out in the world with
• 1:13:47
  my kids, trying to find the joy and silliness and how to make,
• 1:13:52
  you know, the like little chores into games, I think is like a
• 1:13:56
  little thing that you can actually spread a lot of joy and
• 1:13:59
  how you interact with people Like what you.
• 1:14:01
  I think if we live in times where people are very siloed
• 1:14:04
  into phones and other things, but you forget that when you're
• 1:14:07
  out in the world, you actually like look at somebody or try to
• 1:14:10
  make somebody smile or try to have a moment that just has a
• 1:14:12
  little bit of levity, lightness, silliness to it.
• 1:14:15
  That's so fraggily. It's such a fraggily idea that
• 1:14:17
  you can easily write off, but it actually is so meaningful
• 1:14:20
  because it can change the trajectory of your entire day.
• 1:14:22
  And I feel like it's just like trying to remember that,
• 1:14:24
  remember the playfulness of it that, you know, I think so many
• 1:14:28
  adults and we're we in some ways live in unimaginative times
• 1:14:31
  where people get so kind of like caught in their points of view
• 1:14:35
  and are unwilling to think of other perspectives where it's
• 1:14:37
  really like be playful, like think about, think about things
• 1:14:41
  another way. Try to think about the just the,
• 1:14:44
  the, the world is an endless possibility for fun and delight
• 1:14:47
  and creativity and all of that. And that Then honestly,
• 1:14:50
  something that's like you see in small kids and I see in my small
• 1:14:53
  kids. And when I remember to do it
• 1:14:55
  myself, I have more fun. People around me have more fun.
• 1:14:58
  And it feels very, yeah, feels fragile.
• 1:15:02
  Damn, damn, that was good. That was good.
• 1:15:05
  That's. Basically what?
• 1:15:06
  I would say too, honestly, I mean kindness and empathy and
• 1:15:10
  we're just so lucky to to work on a, on a show about that, but
• 1:15:16
  made by people who who walk the walk from top to bottom.
• 1:15:20
  And we're just very grateful to to be a part of that.
• 1:15:24
  And I guess it kind of is a reminder that, you know, you can
• 1:15:28
  I, you think of the episode with, with Doc doing the
• 1:15:32
  negative self talk. It's easy to, it's easy to
• 1:15:35
  negative self talk to yourself. And Fraggles are just such a
• 1:15:40
  great reminder. No, don't do that.
• 1:15:43
  Like treat yourself like a Fraggle.
• 1:15:44
  It's a Fraggle Tuesday. You know, it's a Fraggle.
• 1:15:46
  Promise. Be kind, be empathetic, slow
• 1:15:50
  down, make a game out of something, even like a chore.
• 1:15:53
  And yeah, just really find the joy in life, in small moments
• 1:15:58
  and in the people that you love. Did I do it?
• 1:16:04
  Yeah, absolutely love. That was great.
• 1:16:06
  Thank you, guys. Well, listen, thank you both for
• 1:16:09
  joining me on this Fraggle Tuesday.
• 1:16:11
  It was such a joy to have both of you.
• 1:16:14
  Matt and Alex, likewise likewise.
• 1:16:16
  And thank you again for all you've done to bring Fraggle
• 1:16:20
  Rock back into our lives. Right back at you.
• 1:16:23
  Thank you for all the love you breathe into into the show and
• 1:16:26
  into the world of it. And you know who you are.
• 1:16:28
  You're our. Yeah.
• 1:16:29
  There's a deep cut. You're our Harry Knowles.
• 1:16:31
  Whatever happened to that guy? Remember that, ain't it?
• 1:16:33
  Cool. news.com. Do you remember that?
• 1:16:35
  You were too young for that. Yeah, No.
• 1:16:37
  I remember. Yeah.
• 1:16:39
  Yeah. I don't know what happened to
• 1:16:41
  him. He doesn't work for me, I'll
• 1:16:42
  tell you that much. Yeah.
• 1:16:43
  Yeah, he didn't get invited to Calgary.
• 1:16:47
  No, he didn't. Well, the point is very, very
• 1:16:52
  much too. So thank you.
• 1:16:53
  Thank you. We really love talking about
• 1:16:56
  this stuff and, and yeah, just really appreciate the
• 1:17:00
  opportunity. Of course, and here's hoping we
• 1:17:02
  get to talk about it some more real soon.
• 1:17:04
  Yeah, anytime, anytime, anytime. Fraggle Talk, the unofficial
• 1:17:18
  Fraggle Rock Podcast is brought to you by toughbigs.com.
• 1:17:21
  Produced, written and hosted by Joe Hennis, Fraggle Talk art by
• 1:17:25
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• 1:17:28
  and elements are trademarks of The Jim Henson Company.
• 1:17:30
  All rights reserved. Transcripts provided by Caitlin
• 1:17:33
  Miller. Fraggle Rock theme song written
• 1:17:36
  by Philip Balsam and Dennis Lee is used with permission.
• 1:17:39
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• 1:17:42
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• 1:17:45
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• 1:17:48
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• 1:17:52
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• 1:17:58
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• 1:18:03
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• 1:18:05
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