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610 CKTB| Should Immigration Status Affect Criminal Sentencing? · Kvetch & Release

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  Speaker 1: Right now though a regular On Tuesday, John Litkey joins us.
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  Speaker 1: Good morning, John, Good morning Jeans.
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  Speaker 2: Great to be here.
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  Speaker 1: It's always great to have you on. I love your takes.
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  Speaker 1: You know. A couple of months ago there was a
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  Speaker 1: couple of cases and we covered this one extensively. It
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  Speaker 1: was just north of the Third World country formerly known
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  Speaker 1: as Toronto. It was a guy, an Indian national, waiting
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  Speaker 1: for his Canadian citizenship and he got caught in a
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  Speaker 1: police sting and he thought he was offering a fifteen
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  Speaker 1: year old girl money for sex. Instead, if it's really
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  Speaker 1: good sex, then he will continue to pay her money
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  Speaker 1: for sex. Well, it was a sting operation. He was arrested.
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  Speaker 1: It went to court and the judge gave this man
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  Speaker 1: a conditional discharge, explaining that if he had been sentenced
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  Speaker 1: like you and me Canadians, that it would hurt his
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  Speaker 1: chances to get his citizenship and also ansor his wife.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, my listeners had a meltdown. But now there's
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  Speaker 1: a new bill which may prevent this that you've discovered.
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  Speaker 1: Tell us about this new.
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  Speaker 2: Bill, well, Jean, you know, let's just break it down
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  Speaker 2: really simple. They want to amend the Criminal Code to
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  Speaker 2: prevent judges from being able to consider a non citizens
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  Speaker 2: immigration status when sentencing. You talked about what the motivations
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  Speaker 2: were with there was a twenty thirteen Supreme Court ruling
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  Speaker 2: that allowed judges to factor in immigration. This is reprehensible
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  Speaker 2: the situation that we have at hand right now. I mean,
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  Speaker 2: we should not be having a two tiered system of
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  Speaker 2: justice that undermines the value of Canadian citizenship. I mean,
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  Speaker 2: if I get caught breaking the law, and I would
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  Speaker 2: not compare it to what we just talked about there,
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  Speaker 2: but I would love to be able to get a
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  Speaker 2: lesser sentence because I need to go to work, or
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  Speaker 2: I have a family to take care of or whatever.
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  Speaker 2: But that's not the way the system works. We have
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  Speaker 2: a blind system of justice where everyone needs to be
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  Speaker 2: treated equally. And I'm very happy that the CPC Michelle
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  Speaker 2: Kretnical Garner MP is bringing us forward because what we
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  Speaker 2: need to have is the actual foundations of what this
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  Speaker 2: country was based on, which is classical liberalism, where you know,
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  Speaker 2: it's much like the US, and that everyone is created equally,
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  Speaker 2: we all have the same rights, we are all treated
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  Speaker 2: the same by the government. But this is not what
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  Speaker 2: that is. This is this is undermining everything that it
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  Speaker 2: means to live in a stable, liberal democracy.
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  Speaker 1: Well, at the time of this case, and we talked
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  Speaker 1: about it extensively, you know, I said that if it
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  Speaker 1: was me getting caught in the sting, I likely would
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  Speaker 1: have gone to jail. I would not likely have been
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  Speaker 1: given a conditional discharge. And what a lot of the
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  Speaker 1: listeners were asking when we talked about this was why
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  Speaker 1: wasn't this gentleman? Gentleman? Why wasn't he kicked out of
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  Speaker 1: the country. Oh, I'm sure it really helped his marriage
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  Speaker 1: a lot too, but why why does he get to stay?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah? It makes no sense. I wish I could give
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  Speaker 2: you an answer other than just liberal sensitive and kindness
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  Speaker 2: and wanting to take care of everyone, And those are
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  Speaker 2: all very important things to have. I think that the
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  Speaker 2: idea of a judge being able to take in certain
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  Speaker 2: considerations might make sense and certain factors. I'm not going
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  Speaker 2: to go into what all those are right now because
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  Speaker 2: I haven't thought that fully out. But if we're talking
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  Speaker 2: about this is just this, to me so simple. Someone
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  Speaker 2: who came here as a visitor, who has been welcomed
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  Speaker 2: in this country has broken our laws. The law says
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  Speaker 2: they need to go to jail or be deported, and
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  Speaker 2: a judge has said, no, actually, I'm going to go
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  Speaker 2: a different way about this because I don't think that's
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  Speaker 2: fair or right or just come on, give me a break.
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  Speaker 2: This is nonsense. Uphold the law.
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  Speaker 1: No, it was the old as I say on the
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  Speaker 1: show all the time. It was hell, oh poor muffin.
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  Speaker 1: You know, we've got to treat you nicely. Now. You
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  Speaker 1: know what's interesting what the courts have been doing. Last Friday,
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  Speaker 1: in a bizarre ruling, the Supreme Court of Canada said
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  Speaker 1: the one year one year mandatory sentence for accessing or
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  Speaker 1: possessing child porn was unconstitutional, saying it was cruel and
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  Speaker 1: unusual punishment. Now, they based that on a hypothetical story,
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  Speaker 1: and they were saying that if a seventeen year old
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  Speaker 1: girl fell in love with a seventeen year old boy
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  Speaker 1: and vice versa, and they sent each other through text
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  Speaker 1: messages nude pictures of each other, that would be considered
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  Speaker 1: child porn and they would have to serve that one
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  Speaker 1: year mandatory sentence. Now that's the hypothetical. In fact, the
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  Speaker 1: court was looking into a case from Quebec involving two
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  Speaker 1: separate cases. In both cases, the men pleaded guilty to
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  Speaker 1: having hundreds of images of children, in one case as
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  Speaker 1: young as three years old being abused. I mean, these
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  Speaker 1: kind of people should I mean, forget jail, just lock
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  Speaker 1: them up, get rid of the keys. I mean, I
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  Speaker 1: was shocked when I found out child porn is only
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  Speaker 1: a minimum. But now, oh, that's cruel and unusual punishment.
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  Speaker 1: I don't understand what these guys and women are thinking about.
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  Speaker 1: I don't know.
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  Speaker 2: I guess maybe this has to be defined as wocism.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, it's a completely different system of government, of politics,
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  Speaker 2: of morality, of how we operate than we've ever seen before.
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  Speaker 2: This case that you just referenced there is obscenely horrific.
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  Speaker 2: You have actual instances of hundreds and hundreds of the
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  Speaker 2: images of child pornography, and they get off on it
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  Speaker 2: because the judges decide, Ah, we don't care what the
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  Speaker 2: case in front of us. We'd rather play make believe
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  Speaker 2: and make up a different case. What is going on
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  Speaker 2: in this country. We need to get our courts back
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  Speaker 2: in order. We're seeing crime on our streets. We're seeing
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  Speaker 2: rampant drug use. We're seeing now people who aren't even
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  Speaker 2: Canadians getting lesser sentences than their equal parts would be,
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  Speaker 2: and not even their equal parts in Canada, because Canadians
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  Speaker 2: are a higher value than someone who hears just as
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  Speaker 2: a visitor. So we need to get our house in order.
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  Speaker 2: And I don't know if it's going to be Mark
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  Speaker 2: Carnie that does that, or if it's going to be
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  Speaker 2: an election that needs to trigger it. In a conservative
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  Speaker 2: government that comes in. I've got no trust with the
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  Speaker 2: NDP or Elizabeth May will be able to do anything
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  Speaker 2: on this front. But something needs to be done because
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  Speaker 2: this is just it's unacceptable and it's going to turn
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  Speaker 2: our country into something that we don't want to be.
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  Speaker 2: And I would verge to say it could be a
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  Speaker 2: paradise for sex pert criminals.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, you nailed it. Hey, the budget's coming down today.
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  Speaker 1: The Bank of Canada says we get used to living
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  Speaker 1: in lower standards, and the Prime Minister says we have
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  Speaker 1: to make sacrifices. Hey, John, I don't know about you,
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  Speaker 1: and I don't know how old you are, but you
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  Speaker 1: know I've worked all my life, even when I was
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  Speaker 1: outside of Canada, I paid my taxes. I've never broken
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  Speaker 1: the law except for some parking tickets. I worked as
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  Speaker 1: an election clerk in two elections because I thought it
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  Speaker 1: was my civic duty. I don't want to make sacrifices
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  Speaker 1: and if I do, I want an election. What's what's
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  Speaker 1: what's your take?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm with you on that. I think you know,
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  Speaker 2: this is still just a continuation of the justin Trueau government.
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  Speaker 2: We're seeing some changes here or there, some tweaks and stuff.
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  Speaker 2: I mean it's a more technocratic government for sure. But
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  Speaker 2: I'm with you on that. I've been working my whole life.
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  Speaker 2: I'm thirty seven years old, and I would love to
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  Speaker 2: you know, don't I don't think the government should just
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  Speaker 2: be handing things out. I don't think it should just
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  Speaker 2: be here's a bunch of cash. But there was a
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  Speaker 2: line from the West wing that it really resonated with me.
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  Speaker 2: And it's a guy who takes his daughter to college
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  Speaker 2: and he's talking with the guys from the White House
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  Speaker 2: and says, you know, I don't want to handle it.
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  Speaker 2: I just thinks should just be a little bit easier.
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  Speaker 2: Shouldn't they things used to be easier. Why have they
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  Speaker 2: gotten so much harder? Why are we in a society
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  Speaker 2: where you need to have a dual income household to
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  Speaker 2: be able to afford a house and then maybe even
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  Speaker 2: another job, you'll to afford another kid. I mean, it's
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  Speaker 2: just it's madness where we've gotten to. I don't know
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  Speaker 2: what the solution is. I'm not an economist, but we
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  Speaker 2: should just go back to what the basics are, because
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  Speaker 2: it's clear that we're not at the basics. We're failing
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  Speaker 2: our own citizens at the expense of our own citizens
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  Speaker 2: and to the benefit of in any cases foreign citizens,
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  Speaker 2: and that is that's an issue.
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  Speaker 1: Well, you're not an economist, but the Prime Minister is.
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  Speaker 1: So it's gonna be really really it's gonna be really
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  Speaker 1: interesting to see what a guy who has a PhD
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  Speaker 1: in economy is going to present after the market's closed today.
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  Speaker 2: Well, if I know one thing, there's three things that
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  Speaker 2: are true in life, death facts, and Elizabeth May being
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  Speaker 2: in the legislature.
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  Speaker 1: You got it, especially during happy hour. That Okay, John,
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  Speaker 1: always great to talk to you. We'll hang out with
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  Speaker 1: you next Tuesday.
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  Speaker 2: All right, thank you so much for you a great day.
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  Speaker 1: All right, great stuff, John Lidke. We love his take