Latest / The Courtroom Files / April 8 Court Hearings: Judge Boyd, Simpson, Middleton + More | TCF Podcast #265

Transcript

April 8 Court Hearings: Judge Boyd, Simpson, Middleton + More | TCF Podcast #265 · The Courtroom Files

• 0:01
  Good morning, everybody having soundly defeated Monday too.
• 0:04
  I am happy to say to you. Happy Wednesday.
• 0:07
  Welcome to TCF live. My name is Dan solo.
• 0:10
  I'll be with you for the next four hours.
• 0:12
  Unlike yesterday where we did have some tech issues but today
• 0:15
  should be much, much better. Let's get our day started at
• 0:18
  Lake County Ohio. Judge O'Donnell.
• 0:26
  A matter of the state of Ohio versus Alexandria daily case.
• 0:30
  Number 26, CR 0, 0, 0 0, 1 4 defendant is present with
• 0:36
  Council. Jim Matthews, we are set today
• 0:38
  for a change of plea. It's my understanding that the
• 0:41
  defendant will be pleading guilty to count one.
• 0:43
  Possession of cocaine count for tampering with records count,
• 0:47
  five forgery, and count, six possession of cocaine, with the
• 0:51
  attached for Fisher specification, there is no
• 0:54
  agreement as to sentencing, the state would request a
• 0:56
  pre-sentence report, Victim Impact statement, and drug and
• 0:59
  alcohol assessment prior to sentencing.
• 1:03
  That is accurate. 39. How far do you go through
• 1:12
  school? I completed two years of
• 1:15
  college, are you? A US citizen.
• 1:17
  I am. Yes able to read write and
• 1:19
  understanding Was like yes, sir. I'm prior to coming to take the
• 1:24
  alcohol and prescription medication in the last 40 hours.
• 1:29
  Yes, commodity yesterday. Anxiety.
• 1:39
  No. I did.
• 1:55
  Yes, sir. Yes.
• 2:05
  Before I actually, I need to determine if you know, I
• 2:08
  understand the Constitutional maximum really know how her some
• 2:23
  questions. We don't understand a question
• 2:24
  stopping. I'm talking to Matthew
• 2:27
  somewhere. Let me know and I'll give you
• 2:28
  more time, understanding that? Yes, you have a constitutional
• 2:32
  right there. Have a trial to give to me or to
• 2:34
  a jury of 12, late County, Citizens.
• 2:36
  Do you understand that, right? Yes, sir.
• 2:37
  Are you waving that way? Yes, sir.
• 2:39
  If you go to a jury trial, all 12 members must agree, to a
• 2:43
  guilty verdict before. You can be found guilty.
• 2:45
  You understand that, right? Yes.
• 2:46
  Are you waving there? Yes, sir.
• 2:48
  Thank you. Go to trial.
• 2:49
  Rescue will call witnesses and testify against you.
• 2:53
  Do you understand that? The prosecutor?
• 2:55
  You gotta reasonable doubt it. Yes, you have the constitutional
• 3:04
  right there. Lawyer cross examine the woods
• 3:07
  and understand that, right? Yes, sir.
• 3:12
  For you to understand that, right?
• 3:17
  Yes, sir, this is refused to come according to order called
• 3:22
  The subpoena to makeup. Yes, sir.
• 3:26
  Yes sir. He had the right to testify a
• 3:30
  trial if you want to. Understand that right?
• 3:32
  Yes sir. Yes sir.
• 3:34
  Yes, sir. It will decide now.
• 3:44
  Nobody is permitted to comment. I have to say.
• 3:48
  Do you understand that? Yes.
• 3:50
  If you go to trial and you found guilty, you have the right to
• 3:53
  appeal the guilty planning, if you understand that, right?
• 3:55
  I do believe in that, right? Yes, sir.
• 3:58
  If you found, Ophelia the Constitutional idea of a lawyer
• 4:01
  represent you with the appeal. You understand that way?
• 4:03
  Yes. Are you waiting there right?
• 4:05
  Yes, sir. If you could not afford to hire
• 4:08
  a lawyer, one of the provided at no cost, you understand?
• 4:11
  Yes, if you file a field, you're entitled to have a transcript of
• 4:15
  all the hearings, in this case to understand that right?
• 4:17
  Yes. Yes, sir.
• 4:19
  If you could not afford a copy, those cost, you understand that?
• 4:24
  Yes sir. If you click guilty today, you
• 4:27
  will not have the right to appeal to get.
• 4:29
  Yes, questions about any of these rights.
• 4:33
  I do not your owner still alive. I do your owner.
• 4:38
  Yes, your voluntarily. Giving up your freedom for
• 4:47
  whatever period of time. I get such a prison jail.
• 4:49
  Yes, Can. Count.
• 4:57
  One is actually conveniently fell in five, which carries a
• 5:01
  12-month maximum prison sentence.
• 5:02
  I mean, 2500 dollar maximum fine, you understand.
• 5:05
  Yes, sir. California with records is a
• 5:10
  fell on the tree that carries a 36 months, maximum prison
• 5:13
  sentence 75,000 or 10,000 dollars maximum findings.
• 5:16
  Yes, sir. Five, four three is a felony 512
• 5:21
  month, maximum prison sentence 2500 dollars Nation.
• 5:24
  Finally, understand that? Yes, sir, six position of
• 5:28
  cocaine is the phone five, 12 months National prisons, 2500
• 5:32
  dollars. If you can count six to
• 5:42
  understand that I do, I could give you a second sentence.
• 5:46
  That means one sets after another, for the separate
• 5:49
  offenses, if I did that. Then the maximum prison sentence
• 5:52
  with these 72 months and maximum 17 miles.
• 5:56
  Yes, sir. Any questions about Donald Trump
• 6:00
  know? Are you presently on
• 6:05
  post-release control know? Stand that you felony conviction
• 6:10
  of prevents you from owning or possessing the firearm.
• 6:13
  Yes, I do understand that your guilty for the game result in a
• 6:17
  driver's license suspension of between six months and five
• 6:19
  years. Yes, I do you understand our
• 6:22
  prison term is imposing. This case, you might have to
• 6:24
  serve a period of most of these control purposes.
• 6:26
  Two years under the Parole Authority.
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  Yes, sure, honor. If you are pleased with these
• 6:32
  control and violating conditions and parole authorities sending
• 6:34
  back to prison. But the nine months for each
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  violation of the one half of my sense, you understand that?
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  Yes, I do. If violation is a new felony,
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  you could get an additional consecutive months for the
• 6:47
  violations. Yes, I do.
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  Yeah. 12 months for the time left.
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  Yes, I do. You want to understand that if
• 7:00
  you are eligible for traditional I do.
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  Five years. anybody promised you that I would be leaning on you
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  just because, you know, Know, I have a sense in a do not have to
• 7:26
  follow the sense of recommendation of able to
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  prostitute or the lawyer. I understand.
• 7:30
  Yes. Have you had enough time to talk
• 7:32
  Mr. Matthews before being guilty today?
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  Yes, sir. Yes.
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  All of your questions. Yes, sir, you satisfied with
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  your vices, I am threatened, Dark Horse in any way.
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  It will be guilty today. No yes yes sir. no, you're Here
• 7:56
  under the facts would have shown that in September. 2025.
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  Willoughby police were called to a parking lot in Willoughby for
• 8:02
  reports of a suspicious vehicle, police contacted the defendant
• 8:06
  Who provided her name at that time, as Victoria daily
• 8:09
  suspected illegal, substances were found in the vehicle,
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  pursuant to a search and sent to the Lake County crime.
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  Lab for testing, weighable amount was determined to be
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  cocaine. The defendant was transported to
• 8:20
  the booking room of Willoughby where she was booked in as
• 8:22
  Victoria Daly her case. Proceeded through Willoughby,
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  Municipal Court under the name, Victoria Daly, and the defendant
• 8:29
  signed and filed a motion to continue under the name.
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  Victoria Daly. In December 2025, Mentor, Police
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  Department became involved when it received a call for female's
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  passed out in the mentor, sheets on scene, police secured
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  suspected illegal substances sent to the Lake County crime
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  lab and determined to be cocaine.
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  The defendant identified herself to Mentor PD as Victoria daily
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  at that time. She was brought to booking, but
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  before she could be booked in at Mentor, police department and
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  individual called and advised that officers had booked
• 8:56
  Alexander Daly, not Victorious. And that Victoria was her sister
• 9:00
  officers were able to ultimately confirm that the individual in,
• 9:03
  their custody was Alexander Daly.
• 9:07
  Thank you, Mr. Matthews and we're going to add it was.
• 9:09
  No, you're right alien. Did you hear about this Jazz and
• 9:12
  said that the facts of the case went to the trial?
• 9:15
  I did. They are.
• 9:18
  Yes sir. What is your phone and guilty?
• 9:30
  Guilty. Guilty.
• 9:45
  Thank you. just, Witnessed the defendant
• 10:39
  and Mr. Matthew signed the written, say of guilty, I have
• 10:41
  also signed a written plea of guillotine with permission would
• 10:43
  return it to the bench. This daily.
• 10:55
  Is this your signature on the guilty?
• 10:58
  Yes, your honorary? I did.
• 11:01
  Yeah. Charge a consequences were
• 11:14
  guilty and the next one I thought.
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  Finder in the records of phone, three.
• 11:27
  Five, four, three fell in 5664. Drug and alcohol is valuation
• 11:38
  and Victim Impact statements, and be made 13 of 930 and found
• 11:43
  as we both and we are Wisconsin. No honor, thank you know, you're
• 11:47
  right. Thank you.
• 11:53
  Good morning. Once again, everybody it is TCF
• 11:55
  live. It is a Wednesday.
• 11:57
  It's nice to have you all here today with me.
• 12:00
  Thank you for giving me your time.
• 12:01
  I will guide you through a little under four hours.
• 12:05
  Now, of course, landia a few judges up and running, let's go
• 12:09
  to Let's go to Michigan Sy. Good morning to judge, Dad.
• 12:13
  Let's do that. I'm glad that we're not here.
• 12:27
  So, we'll be here and he will tell.
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  That is caused a tremendous amount of.
• 12:36
  English and his life and He? Scored desperately wants to try
• 12:51
  to keep the job. You know, the understands he has
• 12:56
  some flexibility. He's Taking some appropriate
• 13:00
  steps to be all because he knows that. you know, this Discord
• 13:06
  serious about his drink and so, With that. we'll just asking
• 13:14
  them to quote, consider working with him and his employment
• 13:20
  situation, and he's going to be all, you know that it's just if
• 13:26
  something can be fashioned where he can the offer?
• 13:31
  Being. Like a point in time to go back.
• 13:36
  He long maybe he'll tell him. However, Long.
• 13:41
  You want me to give the work and help ourselves?
• 13:45
  Thanks. Anything you'd like to set your
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  saw all that really sure. And he spent one night in jail
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  at the time of the arrest, correct.
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  That's the credit. He has come this.
• 14:02
  Looks pretty spectacular. I'd say four responsibility for
• 14:11
  my integral on December 13th, one of five and understanding
• 14:15
  seriousness on my action. I recognize that I put myself in
• 14:21
  danger. Now, I am the second of my condo
• 14:23
  However, this incident served as a wake up call.
• 14:27
  My addition to alcohol is a disease that have a fun time.
• 14:31
  I had my disease and admission. For a number of years before and
• 14:36
  treatment counseling AA. So, I know I can do with it.
• 14:39
  Unfortunately, I had a relapse through distress of my life.
• 14:42
  Actually, I hit rock rock about I was laid off from my job at
• 14:47
  Cleveland Cliff, 22 years for eight months but no definitely
• 14:52
  returned. Home, foreclosure and marriage
• 14:56
  and Jerry. Went through treatment that
• 14:58
  caring Corporation of Detroit AAA by Thomas the first system
• 15:04
  and I believe that I have my disease back to the mission.
• 15:08
  I am. I'm going to keep it there as I
• 15:10
  stand here today. I am in a better place.
• 15:12
  I transferred to a sister facility of Cleveland Cliffs
• 15:16
  Julio Ohio. I've been training and working
• 15:19
  hard working, very hard to get past two weeks.
• 15:23
  Austin and the current standing marriages doing better, and most
• 15:28
  importantly. I have my sobriety in four
• 15:32
  months now. I am working hard to become a
• 15:36
  productive member of society and dedicated to continuing my
• 15:39
  recovery program. I hope you will consider my
• 15:42
  dedication and Rehabilitation and change.
• 15:45
  Thank you for your time and consideration.
• 15:56
  When it came in my attention that you were in a sobriety
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  chord, I remembered you. and I liked, and it's still, like, you
• 16:06
  probably I But you cannot do what you're doing.
• 16:11
  I don't. I don't understand, I get the
• 16:15
  whole disease aspect that's why I started to sobriety Court back
• 16:19
  and away. But I don't understand why you
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  would undertake to drive. When you're drunk.
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  I mean, how many times you have to go through the street before
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  you learn? I really don't understand it.
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  There are older, they're they're careers, there are friends their
• 16:38
  spouse that can come and pick us up. um, he went through two
• 16:45
  sobriety courts. He went.
• 16:48
  You went through mine and then you went through the veterans
• 16:51
  treatment Court in 34. There is nothing.
• 16:55
  I'm going to do except say to you.
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  That. you are so fortunate that somebody dropped the ball and
• 17:05
  didn't charge a felony because I can tell you after this many and
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  what I've seen, if I were a circuit court judge and you came
• 17:14
  before me, you'd be doing at least two or three years. 500.
• 17:18
  I'm not going to bother putting on probation. 500 finds 850
• 17:23
  costs 75 victims rights be 50 dollar, Justice, assessment,
• 17:26
  1475, screening fee, 60 for 1535 76 days, 4th with Credit One.
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  Served 75, you'll serve 17. More fines and costs are not
• 17:38
  paid. I'm gonna give you until August
• 17:40
  the 1st, to pay those. If you need more time, you could
• 17:43
  come in here. And request.
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  If you don't have the money, you have 21 days to appeal, 14 days
• 17:51
  to apply for a court appointed for purposes of appeal.
• 17:54
  I'd like to let him do weekends or something.
• 17:57
  I can't I'm not going to, he's going to kill somebody.
• 18:00
  And I might be saving you from killing yourself, so, you're in
• 18:04
  custody. I'm sorry, Mr. Polk, you're
• 18:06
  always such a gentleman. I enjoy having you here, but you
• 18:09
  cannot do this as well. This, this is the quick one.
• 18:13
  And somebody dropped the ball down there and not going to.
• 18:17
  Embarrass anybody but should have been charged, only.
• 18:20
  I'm sorry, Mr. Paul, good to see you.
• 18:22
  Good luck Rodney. Richard Tressler have a seat Sir
• 18:26
  Rodney. Richard Trussler JRM 3307186.
• 18:32
  Well. It's only all the money's people
• 18:43
  were here. Yes, your name.
• 18:44
  Heather. Can you help me?
• 18:47
  This is very to pay fines and cost is already pled, guilty on
• 18:53
  March 30th, we gave him an adjournment.
• 18:55
  He is probation set to expire tomorrow.
• 19:00
  He paid this morning judge. Everything's paid.
• 19:03
  Correct. Congratulations to you.
• 19:07
  Mr. Tressler There was a lot of mine that was a lot of money
• 19:14
  order to pay restitution. I'm gonna go ahead and just
• 19:17
  charge you with Improvement. Oh, there's no other violations.
• 19:22
  Here is there, Heather. I do not believe so judge.
• 19:29
  You don't have anything else pending right discharge.
• 19:32
  We've Improvement case closed. I wish you well, I really do.
• 19:35
  Good luck. People against Lawrence.
• 19:40
  Mark Gibson Lawrence to 615 or two to four A and B.
• 19:47
  Good morning. Counselor here Mr. Lawrence your
• 19:52
  name Sir. Mark get some large.
• 19:54
  All right. Does he stand me away from
• 19:56
  overrated? Yeah sure.
• 19:57
  And so now you preached this with the prosecutors that
• 20:01
  correct? That's correct.
• 20:02
  Career go ahead. You should have you.
• 20:04
  Yeah. She's gonna play in.
• 20:06
  Pure driving. You owe to be dismissed.
• 20:08
  Correct, right. And there's all the Civil
• 20:12
  attraction of driving left of center.
• 20:14
  That is all. So it would be dismissed true.
• 20:16
  Yes, sir. If you clean guilty, operating
• 20:18
  while imperative, I'm going to go ahead and dismiss the
• 20:20
  operating woman toxicated. The operating while impurities
• 20:24
  punishable by the 300 fines 93 days, jail free, 60 hours,
• 20:27
  community service, court costs, or all of those four points,
• 20:31
  with the edit, your traffic record, your license to be
• 20:33
  suspended to vote in accordance with your real record and your
• 20:37
  vehicle could be or might have to be a mobilized, depending on
• 20:41
  your record. You understand it?
• 20:42
  Yes, sir. And did you sign read and
• 20:44
  understand, and advice to write? Yes.
• 20:47
  So if you plead guilty, you'll be giving up all those rights
• 20:49
  and there will be no hearing or trials.
• 20:51
  You understand that Yes, sir. Okay, any questions before I ask
• 20:56
  you how you plead No, sir to the charge operating more visibly
• 21:00
  impaired, how you wish to plead. But, you know, contest.
• 21:05
  Why are we doing? Okay.
• 21:06
  Just thankful for a civil liability.
• 21:08
  Was there an accident? Yes, it was with another
• 21:12
  vehicle. This was somebody hurt.
• 21:17
  Well then. So what's possibility of civil
• 21:25
  litigation if nobody's hurt. I'm not going to give you our
• 21:28
  time. If this was, if this was There
• 21:33
  were three cars, there was a three car crash and looking at
• 21:35
  it. I believe, what three car crash.
• 21:38
  Yeah, are concerned that the time.
• 21:41
  There was no allegation. I got it.
• 21:43
  Okay. Good enough.
• 21:44
  I didn't see that. It was a no contest.
• 21:46
  So if you, please don't contact us and I will take an old
• 21:49
  contest please. On this, giving me the
• 21:52
  circumstances, it has the same effect as a guilty pleas, so
• 21:57
  you'd be giving up all the writes.
• 21:58
  Those are the possible penalties that I covered with you and
• 22:02
  we're not going to have a trial, then if you understand that Yes,
• 22:05
  right. You skip your city, you
• 22:07
  stipulate that can use the police report to establish a
• 22:11
  factual basis. Yes, I'm asking your lawyer.
• 22:14
  I was looking at you himself. It's yes, sir.
• 22:17
  All right, I'm gonna have that marked people's one right now.
• 22:20
  Are you on probation or parole? Yes.
• 22:22
  Has anybody in the world force? You to plead guilty or
• 22:25
  promising, to induce you to plead guilty?
• 22:27
  No, does he have any prioris counseling for driving?
• 22:30
  Your he does have a couple of priors for possession of
• 22:35
  controlled substance. What kind, okay, but those were
• 22:40
  approximately 10 years ago, all right, okay I've had the report
• 22:47
  marked. I'm going to go ahead and review
• 22:49
  the Report. Based upon my review of the
• 23:10
  report I find there is a factual basis for this.
• 23:13
  Plea, are you on Pro? I already yesterday you're not
• 23:16
  on probation. Parole for anything curve.
• 23:19
  But all right, go ahead and accept the plea.
• 23:21
  I find there's a factual basis. Please been made voluntarily and
• 23:25
  understandingly and as accurate. Please accept that.
• 23:28
  I'm gonna order a screening and assessment We'll give you a
• 23:31
  sense date. But first, we have to address
• 23:33
  Bond. Let me just take a quick peek.
• 23:35
  Here we lost his license too. He didn't take the Intellectual
• 23:40
  as you're correct, correct. So, I don't expect you to be
• 23:45
  driving, Okay? So Here.
• 23:54
  All right, so we shows, let's see, possession of controlled
• 23:58
  substance out of the circuit court and 16. he said suspension
• 24:05
  but I'm not that concerned about their retail frog 14 improper
• 24:10
  Transportation marijuana this 17 I'll give you a personal Bond
• 24:16
  Personal Bond of 2500 dollars. You cannot leave the state
• 24:19
  without the consent of the cork. You cannot violate any law
• 24:23
  ordinance. You must appear in court as
• 24:26
  directed. Okay, yes, no alcohol.
• 24:30
  But no marijuana. Okay, no illegal drugs they're
• 24:33
  not to purchase possessive consume any one of those things.
• 24:37
  I do want you going to AA and a at least two times per week.
• 24:41
  At least two times per week. What?
• 24:45
  I said that's great. I have already started doing
• 24:48
  good. We came into the office today,
• 24:50
  in order, to begin all of the students become something.
• 24:54
  Okay, good. Well, you got a good smart
• 24:57
  lawyer then, Mr. Lawrence Street.
• 25:02
  All right, that's what we'll do. Is he I want him to go in person
• 25:08
  as he can go in to AAA in person.
• 25:10
  Yes, sir. And you've been getting that
• 25:12
  form signed every time you go. Yes you're right.
• 25:15
  You have it with you. Just have you seen it?
• 25:17
  So I look at this point. That's fine.
• 25:20
  I don't need to see it. I had an ordered it.
• 25:22
  I hadn't seen you guys until just 10 minutes ago so I'll go
• 25:26
  ahead. Just dirty to continue doing
• 25:28
  that twice a week to go across the hall.
• 25:30
  After you get your notice for your next court date to fill out
• 25:33
  a question from the interview. What do you have for me?
• 25:35
  Heather. That will be April 22nd at 8:30.
• 25:41
  Is that good with you counsel? Yes, thank you.
• 25:44
  Okay. April 22nd at 8:30 and they'll
• 25:47
  give you a copy of the bond sheet down all as well.
• 25:49
  Anything else, any questions? We all right vessel.
• 25:54
  Thank you. People against the EA.
• 25:58
  Okie dokie friends. Let's move along.
• 25:59
  It's been a minute since we've been here, Wexford County but
• 26:03
  judge Cordy Wiggins. It looks like he's gonna do a
• 26:06
  preliminary exam so let's check that out.
• 26:09
  Your flight fresher case. Number 26527, FY parents is
• 26:14
  Council Ryan for the people around morning, Jerry from the
• 26:21
  best. All right, good morning.
• 26:21
  You all may be seated. We are here for a preliminary
• 26:25
  examination. Has there been any resolution to
• 26:28
  this matter at all? No, you're right speaking with
• 26:34
  the prosecutor. I'm hoping that despite running
• 26:39
  the examination, that negotiation are not, all right.
• 26:44
  Are there any preliminary matters before we get going?
• 26:46
  There are a couple of However, you're comfortable, thank you.
• 26:57
  First of all, judge all of the people's witnesses will be
• 27:01
  waiting outside the courtroom until they're called the
• 27:03
  testifying. However, the victim's daughter,
• 27:07
  Patricia Smith is here this morning.
• 27:09
  She's going to testify first and I would ask that she be allowed
• 27:13
  to remain in the courtroom, after she, testifies to observe
• 27:16
  the remainder of the examination.
• 27:19
  Any objection to that. Also, judge the people in the
• 27:25
  defendant, have a couple of stipulations regarding evidence.
• 27:31
  There is a packet of records that people obtained from
• 27:36
  Pleasant Lake Lodge which is the adult foster care facility where
• 27:40
  the defendant was employed at the time of the events in
• 27:42
  question. Those.
• 27:47
  Records, total, I believe, 98 pages, and then marked as
• 27:51
  people's exhibit two. I understanding that was
• 27:54
  stipulate to exhibit two being entered into evidence.
• 27:59
  Correct. All right.
• 28:01
  Also judge, there are a couple of former employees of Pleasant
• 28:07
  Lake Lodge who would be called as witnesses to testify in this
• 28:12
  case including at this examination today their names
• 28:16
  are Angela Adams and Christopher Laurie of unfortunately, Ms.
• 28:20
  Adams and Mr. Lee are disease and obviously we won't be able
• 28:23
  to call them and I believe the feminine is willing to stipulate
• 28:28
  to those facts as well. Also correctly judge.
• 28:32
  There's a few witnesses that was peanut Mr. Favorite whereas
• 28:39
  there was a peanut. However, they may not call
• 28:41
  today. I'm looking at you going in
• 28:43
  detail about that. That's all I have before we
• 28:48
  start together. All right counsel any concern
• 28:53
  about the witnesses that may not be called the prosecutor
• 28:57
  identify which Witnesses are all. so Witnesses, I do intend
• 29:02
  to call our Christmas Amber Harris Valerie glendenning
• 29:08
  Allison David Harris and Dr. Paul Wagner Bruce Messer and
• 29:14
  Trooper Patrick MSP for Patrick McClure.
• 29:19
  Thank you. All right, and they are all
• 29:21
  questions. Except for Mr. Yes, thank you.
• 29:26
  All right. Defense counsel do you have any
• 29:29
  preliminary matters before we get going?
• 29:30
  We do not. Thank you.
• 29:31
  All right your first witness you call Patricia Smith your owner
• 29:41
  Miss Smith. You'll make your way up between
• 29:43
  these half walls and come up to this chair next to me.
• 29:46
  And before you're seated, if you'd raise your right hand,
• 29:48
  please. You solemnly swear or affirm
• 29:53
  that the testimony you give in this matter will be the truth.
• 29:55
  The whole truth and nothing but the truth, you may have a seat
• 29:58
  but before we get going that microphone that's in front of
• 30:01
  you, that just carries your voice to the recording
• 30:03
  equipment. It doesn't amplify it.
• 30:04
  So I'll need you to speak right up.
• 30:06
  If you would please whenever you ready, thank you.
• 30:23
  Patricia Smith. Yes that's MIT you might if I
• 30:28
  tell you Patricia That's okay. Patricia.
• 30:33
  How do you live in the Cadillac area?
• 30:35
  You think piece. Okay, how are you?
• 30:39
  What How long have you lived in me?
• 30:42
  Sick. Or in Western County?
• 30:44
  We've been here. Who was Kelly Harris?
• 30:55
  And his failures the living. Yeah.
• 30:58
  When did she pass away? November 4th of 2022.
• 31:06
  If I suggested it was November 5th, would that be accurate?
• 31:09
  Yes. Okay.
• 31:14
  Where was she? When she died that wasn't, like,
• 31:17
  college. And what was the president that
• 31:22
  time? And I don't lost your care home?
• 31:24
  Was she a resident there? Yeah.
• 31:26
  How did your mother come to be a resident and close in my budge?
• 31:30
  I thought I care facility for her.
• 31:34
  And I chose that place for her. Let me ask you a couple of
• 31:40
  follow-up, questions. Why did she need a living in a
• 31:45
  car facility? She was not strong enough.
• 31:50
  And why not? She had many health issues that
• 31:55
  I came from doing so that she could not focus on what we're
• 32:00
  helping. She's she had hypertension,
• 32:02
  orthostatic blood pressure, she had muscles like atrophy
• 32:10
  Diabetes. She had a pituitary tumor
• 32:14
  removed from her brain and it just kind of messed up her
• 32:19
  entire body. And she's had some health issues
• 32:21
  that she can get over, okay? Those chronic issues.
• 32:25
  Then yes, she had had those for years.
• 32:28
  You know, how long she was? She bad guy.
• 32:35
  Small on the time, Benjamin second grade, she had been
• 32:39
  diabetic for maybe 25-30 years. Did she take insulin for her
• 32:45
  diabetes? Yes.
• 32:46
  And was she able to administer the insulin to herself?
• 32:49
  Yes. How did she know when she needed
• 32:52
  insulin? She had a glucose monitor.
• 32:57
  And without getting technical. How what is the glucose monitor
• 33:01
  do? Um it just told her what her
• 33:04
  blood sugar was, she even had one.
• 33:06
  That was she had a thing in her arm and she would just take the
• 33:12
  Reading is, and then based on reading, on glucose monitors,
• 33:17
  you whether she needed insulin, yes.
• 33:20
  You know, any details about what kind of insulin she took.
• 33:25
  Um, I mean over the years it changed.
• 33:27
  It was Humalog. I'll add or I can't recall off
• 33:35
  the top of my head. She had a couple of different
• 33:37
  novela. Okay, that's fine.
• 33:41
  Ask her something. Okay.
• 33:43
  Um, and how did you pick? Well I guess let me back up.
• 33:54
  No, I'll have that question. How did you pick Pleasant like
• 33:58
  live for that? There were a couple of them that
• 34:01
  I looked at. In the area, we wanted to have
• 34:05
  something that was close to my brother and I my brother at the
• 34:08
  time was living in music. And I was living in Cadillac.
• 34:14
  He wanted to find something that was close because we enjoyed
• 34:17
  spending a lot of her. There are a couple of them that
• 34:20
  she could qualify for a couple of different homes that she
• 34:25
  could afford out of to pay for out-of-pocket.
• 34:28
  I looked at one and how paska and I looked at Pleasant Lake
• 34:32
  Lodge. And I seemed like it wasn't like
• 34:38
  this. what kind of daily care did your mother require She just
• 34:45
  needed somebody to have eyes on her to watch, you know, how she
• 34:49
  was doing. Previously to her going into the
• 34:53
  hospital. She stayed at my home.
• 34:54
  The only thing she can do is get up and down the stairs, you
• 34:58
  know? So she just needed somebody, you
• 35:00
  know, just to kind of keep an eye on her because once in a
• 35:04
  while she just got you know, once in a while she would just
• 35:15
  be able to function. It was a cognitive issue or a
• 35:27
  mental awareness issue. No, not not necessarily.
• 35:31
  She was just, she was on So Many Meds, you know, and so many
• 35:36
  different things that she just she needed to be supervised a
• 35:43
  little bit. unless she could if she stood up and she had
• 35:47
  orthostatic, you know, her blood pressure drop, she looked she
• 35:51
  could get You know, she just needed help.
• 35:58
  So, she needed somebody to keep an eye on her.
• 36:00
  Make sure she was safe. Yeah.
• 36:01
  Um, whether she needed any physical assistance. yeah, she
• 36:07
  didn't help transporting by any means, she didn't she you know,
• 36:12
  she could cook for herself, she could You know, do her own
• 36:16
  laundry. But sometimes she would Not
• 36:23
  necessarily. But she was able to walk.
• 36:31
  Yeah. Okay.
• 36:32
  You mentioned the hospital. It was she in the hospital
• 36:35
  before? She went to Pleasant like glass?
• 36:37
  You know why she was in the hospital, her blood pressure and
• 36:42
  her baby. So, she was having issues with
• 36:46
  with those two problems as much as in the hospital.
• 36:48
  That's right. You know how long she was in the
• 36:50
  hospital? I believe, I took her to the
• 36:52
  hospital in October 12th and she left there on November 1st.
• 36:58
  So, about three weeks, yes. And as you go directly from the
• 37:04
  hospital to Pleasant Lake Lodge. That's And again, how did when
• 37:09
  who did you talk to a Pleasant Lake Lodge before you decided to
• 37:11
  have your mother sent there from the hospital?
• 37:13
  I see And by Christy are you referring to the defendant. the
• 37:21
  fact can you please point out the defendant and just give a
• 37:24
  brief description of her appearance and when she's
• 37:26
  wearing A black cardigan. Would say that any objection.
• 37:36
  It's a sword and his pleasantly. Glad located here.
• 37:40
  What's your county? Yes.
• 37:42
  Thank you. So what did you talk to Chris
• 37:45
  about before you decided to send your mom to live there?
• 37:48
  I think most of our conversations were just about
• 37:51
  whether or not my mom could afford it, the financial status.
• 37:54
  And what It was really important to my mom to have some Freedom.
• 37:59
  She wanted to be able to go out and have a cigarette.
• 38:02
  She wanted to be able to go in and out as she pleased if I
• 38:07
  could take her to the store. You know, if I want, if I would
• 38:11
  just wanted to pick her up and take her shopping, you know,
• 38:13
  some nursing skilled nursing facilities.
• 38:15
  You cannot however this place you could.
• 38:19
  It was just conversations like that, you know, would it be a
• 38:24
  good fit for where my mom, okay. And you said that you want you,
• 38:27
  she needed that your mother needed someone to keep an eye
• 38:30
  on, or watch her regularly. Did Christy indicate, that was
• 38:33
  something that they can do. It wasn't like watch. um, yeah,
• 38:37
  I went in and I toured the facility and when I went there,
• 38:40
  I saw what I thought at the time were Nurses transporting other
• 38:49
  patients to the restroom. I seen that there was somebody
• 38:53
  in the kitchen there was somebody in the dining room and
• 38:57
  I had, you know, had conversations with Cristiano on
• 39:00
  the phone. I don't believe that I'm not
• 39:01
  that time. We repeat the question.
• 39:09
  I just wanted what services Christine indicated would be
• 39:12
  provided to your mother at pleasantly Lodge.
• 39:14
  Oh yeah. So I just assumed.
• 39:16
  Yeah. And I, you know, after seeing it
• 39:18
  with my own eyes that that's that it would provide what my
• 39:21
  body was there. Any discussion about giving your
• 39:24
  mother her prescribed him and occasions?
• 39:27
  I don't believe that we have, okay. so, Which day did your
• 39:34
  mother actually move into Pleasant Lake Lodge November?
• 39:36
  I believe that was by Amy, the medical transport of some sort.
• 39:44
  Okay. Um, is that because of her, she
• 39:47
  was being transferred from a hospital is that your
• 39:49
  understanding were you there when she arrived, okay?
• 39:54
  Did you see her that day? Can you describe what your
• 39:59
  interactions were with your mother?
• 40:00
  And anyone else that wasn't like that day.
• 40:02
  I don't remember any reaction if it's Gap, but my mom was just
• 40:10
  saying she's not sure that this is what he really liked it.
• 40:15
  I don't remember that. She had anything specific.
• 40:19
  It was just like, just wanted to go home.
• 40:23
  She just wanted to be at my house.
• 40:25
  What did you tell her? I said it's through just really
• 40:28
  not a good idea just because of how many times she falls and
• 40:34
  then I was worried about her because I was not home to be the
• 40:38
  whole world were you working outside of your home at that
• 40:41
  time? Yes. 40 hours a week.
• 40:43
  Yes. Okay.
• 40:45
  So you weren't home during the day to keep an eye on them?
• 40:48
  That's okay. Um, any other interactions you
• 40:51
  have with your mom? The first day she was there not
• 40:53
  in the first day. Now one was the next time that
• 40:56
  you saw. The next time I saw was that
• 40:58
  when Wednesday and the conversation with very much the
• 41:01
  same, she was in a wheelchair and she had come out my brought
• 41:07
  something to her such as you know her robe was slippers.
• 41:13
  Need some personal belongings that she wanted.
• 41:18
  And she had come out to my car and she just said that she's
• 41:23
  still not what she wanted, she didn't want to be in a home.
• 41:30
  But there there really wasn't anything.
• 41:32
  I think the only thing that she said specifically she didn't
• 41:34
  like was that she had to turn over her cigarettes.
• 41:40
  Oh, okay. You know.
• 41:41
  She just she didn't like that as an adult having to ask for
• 41:46
  permission, but I think that was in other conversation was mostly
• 41:52
  about. She wanted to come home.
• 41:53
  And I said, you know, if you just try this for a little
• 41:56
  while, if you can get strong, get yourself put back together,
• 42:00
  you know, get your blood pressure and your sugar under
• 42:02
  control. And then once that happens, you
• 42:06
  can, you know, find a different place for you to go.
• 42:09
  It was at the second day that she was there.
• 42:12
  Yeah, okay. They told her, I said, I support
• 42:15
  your decision. I said, let me know what you
• 42:16
  want. And okay, mom was the next time
• 42:20
  you talked with next time I talked to her was Thursday.
• 42:23
  She was in. Yeah, I don't believe that I
• 42:31
  Think she is, she was sending me text messages between Wednesday
• 42:35
  and Friday. I just texted her, she sent me a
• 42:39
  list of some more things that she wanted.
• 42:40
  She decided she was going to stay.
• 42:42
  She was gonna try to work it out.
• 42:44
  Between Wednesday and Thursday. Our conversations were, she sent
• 42:49
  me a list of things? She wasn't feeling well.
• 42:53
  She had gotten sick on the side of her bed.
• 42:57
  She was cute in a bag and she lost her dentures in a bag, and
• 43:03
  she was upset that nobody helped her.
• 43:07
  That nobody noticed and nobody helped.
• 43:10
  And I didn't know if she was just trying to talk me into
• 43:16
  coming back to get her, you know, to take her out of there.
• 43:22
  so, I was just kind of like, Okay, you know, are you, okay,
• 43:26
  are you gonna rest? I know you're not feeling good.
• 43:29
  She was gonna lay down and she told me some more things that
• 43:33
  she wanted. He recall which day it was that
• 43:36
  she said she vomited and she wasn't feeling well, I believe
• 43:39
  it was Thursday. Yeah, I really think it was
• 43:41
  Thursday. Okay?
• 43:42
  Um, Because Thursday, I had taken her a box of things.
• 43:51
  I take in a box, the box of the things that she wanted with her
• 43:55
  phone charger, her reading glasses and her makeup taking
• 44:00
  them to her. And she was sleeping when I got
• 44:03
  there and I didn't wake her up. Um, and I just left, I dropped
• 44:11
  off. I think, when I left, I left her
• 44:12
  sleeping. I thought she just needed the
• 44:15
  rest. Friday, she texted me back and
• 44:20
  told me to said Thank you. So she still wasn't feeling
• 44:23
  well. I called Christie and I said,
• 44:27
  hey, my mom's not feeling well. You know, what's going on?
• 44:35
  And she said that there was a stomach flu going around the
• 44:37
  house that weekend, but a lot of them were feeling well.
• 44:42
  So I let it go. My mom texts me that evening so
• 44:45
  that she had a wonderful dinner. One of the gentlemen there had
• 44:48
  made cherry pie and, Got me that she could make it work.
• 44:54
  She enjoyed hanging out with some of the residents and the
• 44:56
  kitchen. Enjoyed hanging out with.
• 44:59
  Some of the workers there, she was gonna try to make it work
• 45:03
  and that was the last time. The last time ever.
• 45:07
  Yeah. Um, one was the next time that
• 45:13
  you saw her. When I got the phone call
• 45:15
  Saturday morning and what was the phone call?
• 45:18
  I was a phone call from Christy for the Christmas said she said
• 45:22
  your mom is dead. He was the rest of the
• 45:27
  conversation. I just asked her to repeat that
• 45:29
  a few times. And I said, are you sure, I'm
• 45:31
  sure that you're talking about my mom, I share are there.
• 45:35
  I said, did you see her? And she said yeah, she saw her
• 45:38
  herself that she's talking about the right person.
• 45:43
  Was that the entire conversation?
• 45:44
  Yeah. And what did you do after that?
• 45:47
  Took my daughter to the neighbor's house and my husband
• 45:51
  took me to pleasantly. What happened when you ride?
• 45:56
  I went in the door. And my mom's roommate had been
• 46:01
  brought out. She's a living room.
• 46:03
  And was standing in a chair. When I got there and when I
• 46:08
  walked in, she had been reaching for me.
• 46:12
  And she held on to me for a long time.
• 46:14
  My mom's roommate did, and I just sat there in her arms for
• 46:18
  me. And then I walked in the
• 46:26
  hallway. You, yes, and tissues there.
• 46:29
  I do. Okay.
• 46:33
  Are you can you describe what you saw when you walked in your
• 46:35
  mom's room, she was laying backwards on her bed.
• 46:40
  Um, with her head at the foot of the bed and her feet were off of
• 46:44
  the bed. And It looked like she was half
• 46:48
  disrupt. Her pajamas were.
• 46:51
  Like, she had been. you know, I don't know if I've ever seen my
• 46:55
  mom like that before, even, you know, at her worst times at
• 47:00
  home, Just like, you know, something had happened, you
• 47:04
  know? I'm not sure she was blue.
• 47:10
  Yeah, the other side of her skin.
• 47:18
  Was in with you. When at that time, my husband
• 47:21
  was My brother came shortly after what happened next?
• 47:27
  Um, it's hard to know, you know, which order everything happened.
• 47:32
  I started talking to my Examiner.
• 47:36
  At that time. Asking what happened?
• 47:40
  You know, how could this happen, what's going on?
• 47:45
  And I think I asked, are you sure?
• 47:48
  You know, are we sure few times but I knew you know, you just
• 47:52
  know. A.
• 47:59
  And the medical examiner said he's still needed some more
• 48:02
  time. They were still some things that
• 48:05
  he had to do and I said, but somewhere in there.
• 48:13
  By the end of his examination, he did say he thought it was
• 48:16
  ketoacidosis objection of piercing.
• 48:19
  That's fine. George.
• 48:21
  I'll sustain the objection. He had a conversation.
• 48:27
  Yeah, I mean you tell me about the conversation.
• 48:30
  Um, no, that's okay. Probably mostly you're saying.
• 48:33
  Okay did you talk with the new talk with the defendant Christy?
• 48:39
  Yeah, I spoke into the medical examiner and then I talked to
• 48:43
  Christy she was there and it seemed like, you know, there was
• 48:48
  just a lot going on in the house, the ambulance was there,
• 48:51
  I don't know what to call them. The.
• 48:56
  Funeral Home was on their way. And I asked, Christina.
• 49:03
  I asked her one was last time. She got her medication as the
• 49:07
  conversation. The first thing that I asked her
• 49:09
  and she opened her her laptop on the like a counter top between
• 49:16
  the kitchen and Um, the kitchen and the dining room, she had
• 49:22
  opened her laptop. Did you specifically asked her
• 49:25
  about medications in general? Or did you ask about anything?
• 49:28
  I asked her about insulin. I said, when was the last time
• 49:31
  she got her incident just because of the my mom's history
• 49:36
  with her diabetes. I just you know, red flags.
• 49:39
  I just started thinking you know exactly what And she started
• 49:44
  going to her computer but she couldn't find anything. and she
• 49:48
  closed it and walked away and said, we'll have to look at did
• 49:55
  you ask Christie at some point for a copy of pleasant lake
• 50:01
  lodges chart regarding your mother's?
• 50:03
  Yeah, I'm not sure if it was at that time that I asked if I had
• 50:06
  called her a couple of days later.
• 50:07
  But at some point in the day and early days, following I asked
• 50:13
  you and what did she say and responsibility about a week and
• 50:23
  a half. so anything else that happened at the facility today
• 50:30
  that your mom dies at He considers significant.
• 50:33
  The only thing I noticed is that the perks that bag of cute was
• 50:37
  still next to her bed, and her glucose monitor was next to her
• 50:42
  bed? There was really nothing as a
• 50:46
  learning. That glucose monitor end up in
• 50:53
  your possession. Yes.
• 50:54
  And what did you turn it over to the Michigan State Police
• 50:57
  recently? It's all the questions I have
• 51:13
  your own. Thank you, Patricia.
• 51:15
  Thank you. Yes, that's fine.
• 51:23
  However you're comfortable. Good morning, Scott.
• 51:27
  My name is Jerry. Faber.
• 51:28
  We have never met directors attorney.
• 51:31
  I have a few questions. I know that.
• 51:34
  It's not pleasant to talk about the situations.
• 51:37
  I do appreciate. Your candor.
• 51:43
  How long did your mom live with you?
• 51:47
  Prior to her hospitalization. She went with me about three
• 51:51
  months. What was the circumstance
• 51:54
  surrounding her living with you? Where was she living before
• 51:59
  that? Before that she would go to
• 52:02
  Texas with my grandparents? And then was there some an event
• 52:10
  or something? That happened that he made the
• 52:13
  decision to move her in with you.
• 52:15
  Yeah, my mom, she was unable to work for a long time.
• 52:19
  She was on disability so a lot of times she could not afford
• 52:22
  her housing for a long period of time.
• 52:27
  Or, you know, she'd be able to afford it, police for about a
• 52:31
  year or she would end up back in the hospital because of her
• 52:36
  blood pressure or diabetes, or another health issue kidneys,
• 52:40
  you know what happened. You So, her living arrangements
• 52:45
  were offering short in time. She reached the age of 60,
• 52:51
  that's right. And I'm not asking these
• 52:55
  questions to just bearish, you know.
• 52:57
  It's going to be very important to get into the medical history
• 53:00
  in her physical condition, I understand.
• 53:04
  She was according to the medical report.
• 53:07
  She was five foot six. That's right. 280 pounds
• 53:10
  approximately. Maybe a little less.
• 53:15
  Than so, that would be. The clinical definition would be
• 53:21
  morbidly. Obese, said yes, she had a lot
• 53:24
  of health problems. That's right.
• 53:26
  Are you familiar with her? You mentioned a few of her.
• 53:31
  Diagnoses are you familiar with Have you looked at her medical
• 53:37
  records or the medical examiners report?
• 53:43
  Have you reviewed that yourself? I have.
• 53:46
  But I was alarming to me, I'm very well.
• 53:51
  I'm very well versed in everything at.
• 53:53
  Okay. All right so I just want to go
• 53:56
  through those. Yes, right.
• 53:58
  Adrenal cortical hypo function. Ordinary artery disease.
• 54:09
  Rotten Tomatoes. Generative disc disease.
• 54:16
  Lumbar depressive disorder. Yes.
• 54:20
  Diabetes, as you mention that. At least as of the time in the
• 54:26
  hospital diarrhea. Heartburn.
• 54:34
  Hypopituitarism yes. Of course, thyroidism
• 54:40
  intractable lower back pain. Lumbar stenosis.
• 54:47
  A lot of back problems. It was painful for her to move
• 54:50
  around. Absolutely.
• 54:55
  Peripheral artery disease. That's a yes, yes.
• 55:01
  Right. Lower quadrant abdominal pain?
• 55:03
  Yes. Sacroiliitis.
• 55:14
  Chronic pulmonary obstructive disorder.
• 55:17
  I think that's COPD. Yes.
• 55:21
  You mentioned, smoking. The medical examiners recording
• 55:25
  the case. A pack of day smoker is that
• 55:28
  accurate. Mmm, I mean in and out of the
• 55:33
  hospital, she's been in the hospital for three weeks.
• 55:39
  Outside of the hospital setting. How would you engage for the
• 55:42
  smoking at it? Maybe.
• 55:44
  Yeah, I have to attack. Was she a drinker know?
• 55:49
  So if that's indicated in the medical records, that's not,
• 55:54
  that's something you would disagree with. like, I Said, she
• 56:08
  did not have alcohol issues. They went to, she was in Texas.
• 56:13
  And we went to a Roadhouse. Absolutely.
• 56:16
  My mom would enjoy okay on a weekly basis which she had a
• 56:22
  daily drinker. you mean, you don't recall her drinking on a
• 56:33
  daily basis or it would just be an occasionally, I would say at
• 56:37
  least say that I Knew, she's trying to at least twice a week.
• 56:46
  And beer hard liquor. She likes to have a mirror mixed
• 56:54
  with tomato juice with your favorite, okay?
• 56:59
  One of the diagnoses was a humerus fracture.
• 57:04
  Yes. Yes.
• 57:05
  That was maybe two years prior. Know which arm?
• 57:15
  I don't, I don't recall, I'd have to see.
• 57:22
  A cute kidney. Yes.
• 57:24
  Does he stage 3 chronic kidney disease?
• 57:30
  Syncope. Yes.
• 57:32
  Just falling down and you mentioned the reasons why she
• 57:38
  was admitted to Monson. I think you mentioned her blood
• 57:44
  pressure is was a was a real concern, pretty wasn't it.
• 57:48
  Absolutely and all, so diabetes but wasn't all.
• 57:51
  So one of the reasons for her admission Cinco be Um, well, to
• 57:57
  me it, I feel like that's the same thing.
• 57:58
  If you stand up and then you fall down, you know, that's
• 58:01
  passing out, think of me to me, you know, not being a health
• 58:04
  professional. And to me it feels like the same
• 58:07
  thing. So but it wasn't that the reason
• 58:09
  that she was admitted was for a whole Uh yes I do.
• 58:14
  It was a due to her. Okay.
• 58:16
  I wanted to clear it. Yeah.
• 58:19
  She also had a non-healing wound on her left.
• 58:22
  Ankle, that's right. Can you just you?
• 58:26
  And you personally observe that right.
• 58:28
  I was from a spider bite in Texas.
• 58:31
  When was that? It was actually two years prior,
• 58:35
  you know, they traded it and they tried to just still die.
• 58:39
  And it just said, did you have a good knowledge of the
• 58:46
  medication? She was on
• 59:01
  She was on a few mood stabilizers.
• 59:03
  Did she ever diagnosed with like bipolar or no?
• 59:11
  Bupropion. That sound familiar.
• 59:15
  Wellbutrin. That's it.
• 59:17
  I think that's the market name for that.
• 59:22
  Yes. Mota dying.
• 59:28
  For GERD. Okay.
• 59:30
  So do you know that she had as a reflux or GERD, She did not
• 59:35
  share with me that that was something that bothered her.
• 59:40
  Blue cortisone which I think is a steroid for maybe the rash or
• 59:46
  maybe that that not healing, that's not right.
• 59:51
  Or vast, which is the high blood pressure medication.
• 59:54
  Yes, you know what? And what does that?
• 59:59
  Her blood pressure medication was no over the years.
• 1:00:02
  I am I, you know, really trying to take a step back and just let
• 1:00:06
  her be her own person. Oxycodone for pain.
• 1:00:14
  Gabapentin also for pain. Probably pronouncing some of
• 1:00:23
  these wrong. But so those all For improving
• 1:00:29
  blood flow. I do not know.
• 1:00:38
  What calcium for all? And then the diabetes
• 1:00:50
  medications, let's talk about the those medications which was
• 1:00:54
  your mom compliant with her diabetes monitoring?
• 1:00:59
  Yeah, absolutely. The monitoring device that she
• 1:01:04
  had freestyle Libre, too. You purchase that for her?
• 1:01:10
  Did she have that prescribed to her?
• 1:01:13
  It was prescribed and it was covered by her.
• 1:01:15
  Okay. All right.
• 1:01:17
  And there's a sensor that's attached as a little needle, and
• 1:01:20
  it's attached to the body. Yes.
• 1:01:23
  Where would that typically be on your mom's first and her arm and
• 1:01:28
  your indicating the record your left arm.
• 1:01:30
  I'm believed that she would you would I think medically you have
• 1:01:33
  to switch him back and forth to my understanding.
• 1:01:36
  Okay. Did you ever help her with that?
• 1:01:39
  No across Just like a quarter size just and adhesive.
• 1:01:46
  Yes. And the monitoring device.
• 1:01:51
  You just have to hold it close to that and it would give you a
• 1:01:53
  blood sugar reading, correct? Yes.
• 1:01:54
  Okay. Technology was she would check
• 1:01:58
  that every day. Yes, you manage her diabetes.
• 1:02:01
  Well, She compliant with her other medications.
• 1:02:12
  I know and when she was living with you, how was she obtaining
• 1:02:18
  her? Do you know which diabetes
• 1:02:20
  medication she was on? I, I don't know.
• 1:02:25
  You know, the only thing that I can recall is it's just seeing
• 1:02:29
  the medication on paper, just because You know, like I said
• 1:02:34
  when she lived at my house it was mostly just me keeping eyes
• 1:02:38
  on her. that if she was there and what I really you know try
• 1:02:44
  to just let her live her life. I really tried to just Take a
• 1:02:50
  step back from her healthcare. medications that she was on for
• 1:02:53
  diabetes that she sells and get those I believe that there are
• 1:02:58
  injection injection. Did you ever see her inject
• 1:03:00
  herself? Oh, I just don't know if they
• 1:03:02
  all were, I don't know if all three of them were injection
• 1:03:06
  injectables. And where we're usually
• 1:03:10
  understand. That on her own.
• 1:03:13
  You didn't have to prompt her know.
• 1:03:22
  She was at the hospital. How often did you visit her
• 1:03:25
  monthly? I did not visit her often.
• 1:03:29
  I believe that I was teaching at the time.
• 1:03:32
  I was a full-time teacher and you I would go.
• 1:03:35
  I would see her and take her some items.
• 1:03:39
  We had a full house at home, too.
• 1:03:44
  And I don't maybe there's a covid or something.
• 1:03:45
  I don't know. I don't remember why I didn't
• 1:03:47
  see her often at the hospital at that time.
• 1:03:50
  And when you saw her on the occasion, she went to did, you
• 1:03:56
  know if she had that freestyle Libre.
• 1:03:58
  Glucose monitor on at the hospital, over the hospital,
• 1:04:02
  monitoring at the shelves. My understanding, if you're at
• 1:04:07
  the hospital and they have to prick your finger, like the
• 1:04:12
  nursing nurse actually has to do it for you.
• 1:04:14
  Okay. So you didn't see if it was
• 1:04:17
  there or not, but that's just the practice of your own, you
• 1:04:20
  understand? That's my understanding. um what
• 1:04:24
  went into the decision to have her discharged at the end of
• 1:04:29
  that three week period so we testified October 12th.
• 1:04:32
  She's admitted. And then November 1st.
• 1:04:36
  She's discharged from the hospital.
• 1:04:39
  Were you part of the decision-making process for that
• 1:04:41
  discharge? Yes.
• 1:04:45
  Can you tell the court what what led to the decision to
• 1:04:50
  discharge? Well, I would imagine that the
• 1:04:54
  hospital found her able to. No longer in need of Emergency
• 1:05:03
  Services, you know that she could go home and she could be
• 1:05:08
  really okay. And so the hospital contacted
• 1:05:12
  her and said she's ready to go. She contacted. me what insurance
• 1:05:20
  was covering her stay at? Medicaid Medicaid Medicare
• 1:05:30
  insurance or was it was too Medicare Medicaid?
• 1:05:41
  Through what options were you exploring since you testified
• 1:05:44
  that you burn in a position to care for her at home?
• 1:05:47
  That wouldn't be safe for her unsupervised.
• 1:05:50
  So what sort of Facilities were you, did you have like a
• 1:05:56
  priority list of like best case and worst case scenarios?
• 1:06:02
  Facilities over the, you know, the course of the air, you know.
• 1:06:07
  I look at Orchard Creek but she wasn't, she didn't qualify for
• 1:06:18
  us skilled nursing facilities just because of her medical
• 1:06:24
  condition. She could not go to a Skilled
• 1:06:26
  Nursing Facility because there wasn't an injury or any kind of,
• 1:06:30
  you know, physical therapy or occupational therapy that she
• 1:06:32
  needed at that time. So she needed more of a
• 1:06:36
  long-term facility. Her insurance would not cover.
• 1:06:43
  Any options besides an adult foster care home.
• 1:06:46
  So I started looking, like I said at the one that were in the
• 1:06:51
  area, there was one in Kalkaska. With dilapidated.
• 1:06:56
  Looked like she just really would not would in would not
• 1:06:59
  enjoy that spot. I found wasn't like Lodge
• 1:07:03
  probably through a Google search.
• 1:07:07
  I went there, it looked like a beautiful facility.
• 1:07:10
  I had a little creek that ran along the side.
• 1:07:12
  She likes to sit outside. He said that there was a sunroom
• 1:07:16
  when I visited the facility. Like I said, I saw some nurses
• 1:07:22
  helping other patients. Everything was really close
• 1:07:25
  right there, even her bedroom, you could almost, you know, it's
• 1:07:28
  just a couple. Ate away from the.
• 1:07:33
  Not a couple of feet. Maybe 10 feet away from the
• 1:07:36
  living room, if I could interrupt.
• 1:07:39
  So you mentioned nurses. These are people that you
• 1:07:43
  assumed were nurses. Yes.
• 1:07:44
  Did you later? Find out that there is no
• 1:07:47
  medical staff. That wasn't like I did not find
• 1:07:49
  out until recently. Okay.
• 1:07:51
  All right. No, no, no RNs.
• 1:07:54
  No LPNs, no positions, positions, assistant knows.
• 1:07:58
  No license therapists. I didn't know that.
• 1:08:00
  Okay. It's not required by the license
• 1:08:04
  in Bureau, but I just want to clarify that.
• 1:08:07
  So you assume they were nursing. But you accepted the fact that
• 1:08:11
  there were, there is no medical staff.
• 1:08:13
  Then, I assumed when the hospital sent all of her
• 1:08:17
  paperwork to Christy that my mom's Healthcare would be in
• 1:08:21
  good hands. Okay.
• 1:08:26
  So by that, is it safe to say that you?
• 1:08:30
  you were hoping that there were medical professionals, that
• 1:08:33
  would be caring for my understanding that there were
• 1:08:37
  one of the reasons why you chose and Did you see her in the days?
• 1:08:48
  Leading up to her discharge from lonesome.
• 1:08:53
  Know, the last time I visited her in the hospital.
• 1:08:55
  I don't remember exactly when that was It was it ever brought
• 1:09:01
  up by a hospital staff that that she had not.
• 1:09:06
  Urinated for at least 48 hours before her discharge, I know.
• 1:09:13
  He didn't know that she had not passed any fluids at all for at
• 1:09:19
  least the two days prior to her discharge and you know that she
• 1:09:22
  was living with you. Did she appear to hydrate?
• 1:09:26
  So she always always drinking water, drinking water, ice water
• 1:09:31
  ice water. You know, and and so he didn't,
• 1:09:34
  he didn't see any, any issues with her, not going to the
• 1:09:38
  bathroom. So just I believe your testimony
• 1:09:44
  was you saw her. Wednesday, which would have been
• 1:09:50
  November 3rd. Are you there when she was
• 1:09:54
  admitted on the first? She was taken advice on that
• 1:09:58
  whole transport. Yes.
• 1:10:02
  When you saw her Wednesday. She was.
• 1:10:09
  Pleasant and Lucid. Yeah.
• 1:10:13
  Interacted with you normally? Yes, maybe he said she'll place
• 1:10:18
  for her to be but other than that.
• 1:10:19
  Yeah, a normal conversation, right?
• 1:10:21
  Yes. She never mentioned to you that
• 1:10:27
  she she can't sell it Minister her diabetes medication.
• 1:10:34
  We had a conversation. I can tell you the conversation
• 1:10:38
  that I have with her about that. He's on that day. on Wednesday,
• 1:10:42
  the 3rd, I'm unsure which day was Okay.
• 1:10:47
  So like so my question is, did she?
• 1:10:50
  Mention to you that she needs to take her diabetes medication she
• 1:10:56
  did in one of those three days that I invent speaking to her
• 1:11:00
  between the first and the fourth.
• 1:11:03
  She and I did have a conversation.
• 1:11:05
  She said that she had not gotten any insulin that she had asked
• 1:11:09
  to see the doctor and that she had not been able to see the
• 1:11:13
  doctor and that's when I called Christie, okay?
• 1:11:18
  Friends, let's pause for just a minute.
• 1:11:20
  And I'm probably gonna do this a couple of times during this
• 1:11:23
  hearing, because I think it's gonna be a longer hearing a
• 1:11:25
  little different from what we normally see here in the
• 1:11:27
  morning. But I want to stick with it
• 1:11:28
  because I find it interesting. First off Barbara, thank you for
• 1:11:32
  the five dollars. So just to bring us all up to
• 1:11:34
  speed, they did not announce the Charges going into this
• 1:11:39
  preliminary examination, but there was just discussion of a
• 1:11:41
  wrongful death suit in the chat. This is not a wrongful death
• 1:11:45
  thing. This is a criminal court which
• 1:11:47
  means there are criminal charges here.
• 1:11:49
  The fact that we're in a preliminary exam in the
• 1:11:52
  district, court means this exam will determine whether or not to
• 1:11:55
  bind it over to the Circuit. Court, were presumably because
• 1:11:59
  of where they are, it would go to judge Elmore.
• 1:12:02
  Now. We don't know the Chargers that
• 1:12:05
  didn't read them going in, but it would seem that, it's some
• 1:12:08
  kind of, like, negligent, homicide or neglect, charge,
• 1:12:13
  something to that effect, I'm sure we'll find out as we go.
• 1:12:15
  And then, also, there was some questions in the chat about this
• 1:12:19
  person's. Living situation.
• 1:12:21
  Specifically what was said was that she is in a there was in an
• 1:12:26
  adult foster care home. So a googled this just so we
• 1:12:29
  understand the difference. Adult foster care homes are
• 1:12:32
  licensed residential settings. Providing 24-hour, personalized
• 1:12:35
  care, meals and supervision for adults.
• 1:12:38
  Typically they hold one to four residents who can't live alone
• 1:12:41
  due to physical mental or developmental disabilities.
• 1:12:44
  These are often located in private homes and they provide a
• 1:12:47
  family like environment. Generally more affordable than
• 1:12:50
  nursing home's costing between 1500 and 5,000 per month.
• 1:12:54
  So that is the situation here as we understand it so far.
• 1:12:57
  Let's continue and that sounds like that would have been
• 1:13:02
  Friday. Because you talked to Chris
• 1:13:06
  Young Friday. Just unsure of which day.
• 1:13:13
  And on Thursday, you saw her again.
• 1:13:19
  Was it in the morning or the evening?
• 1:13:21
  I'm unsure, I don't know what kind of I know it was dark in
• 1:13:25
  her room because the blinds were pulled.
• 1:13:26
  She was sleeping and I had a box of proofing, okay?
• 1:13:30
  And she has a roommate in. They share a bedroom.
• 1:13:33
  Yes, separate beds. Is there anything like a
• 1:13:36
  partition or anything? Do you remember the roommates
• 1:13:40
  name? I do not.
• 1:13:41
  She asked me to pick up Diet Coke.
• 1:13:43
  That was the only conversation I have
• 1:13:56
  So on Thursday, how long do you spend with her?
• 1:14:01
  She was sleeping. I didn't wake her.
• 1:14:04
  And you just dropped off some. So yes. thanks for Friday.
• 1:14:13
  You saw her? Yeah.
• 1:14:14
  No. You texted her or talked.
• 1:14:17
  Her on the phone and it's texting on the phone.
• 1:14:19
  These text messages between you and your mom, you still have
• 1:14:23
  them. I could look.
• 1:14:26
  But I am. I am.
• 1:14:27
  Unsure. Okay.
• 1:14:28
  Have you turned any text any phone records over to the
• 1:14:31
  prosecution or choose the state police?
• 1:14:33
  So I have not I could ask you to not to preserve them if they
• 1:14:38
  still exist. Please check Yes.
• 1:14:45
  You know, what time approximately, you would have
• 1:14:47
  texted it with your mom on that Friday.
• 1:14:49
  I know that the last time I texted with her that day was
• 1:14:53
  after dinner because like I said, she said that a gentleman
• 1:14:56
  had prepared beautiful meal for them and there's Cherry Pie and
• 1:15:00
  she thought maybe she could start to enjoy the place, okay?
• 1:15:05
  She was praising the meal that she had just had.
• 1:15:07
  That's right. That would have been a dinner.
• 1:15:09
  Yes. So it would have been an evening
• 1:15:11
  text to you. And this would have been the day
• 1:15:15
  preceding for passing, that's right.
• 1:15:24
  Time. Did you arrive at pleasantly the
• 1:15:28
  next day? After the phone call First?
• 1:15:33
  And then I got the phone. Call at 8:00 very close to 8.
• 1:15:38
  That's mmm. Yes, so that's about a half hour
• 1:15:40
  to get there about 8:30 when I arrived.
• 1:15:42
  Okay, so you immediately there? Yes, approximately, excuse me,
• 1:15:47
  approximately 8:30. Yes examiner was still there
• 1:15:51
  doing this. examination pause again friends because I have
• 1:15:57
  more information as to what's going on here from M live.
• 1:16:02
  Adult foster care administrator charged with involuntary
• 1:16:05
  manslaughter after residents death.
• 1:16:08
  So that is what we were dealing with here.
• 1:16:11
  The administrator of a Cadillac adult foster care facility faces
• 1:16:14
  involuntary manslaughter charges after a diabetic resident
• 1:16:18
  allegedly died without receiving her prescribed insulin in 2022.
• 1:16:22
  So this is actually been going on for a while.
• 1:16:25
  Christie Tucker Fleischer big name 39 was a range Tuesday.
• 1:16:33
  This is back in February. This article's February 25th.
• 1:16:37
  So was there in February arraigned back in February?
• 1:16:41
  In front of Corey Wiggins on charges stemming from the death
• 1:16:45
  of a 6 year old woman in Pleasant Lake Lodge.
• 1:16:51
  And now they're in here for the preliminary exams.
• 1:16:53
  So this is what we've got. We've got an involuntary
• 1:16:56
  manslaughter charge against this woman.
• 1:16:59
  And this is the preliminary exam so that brings us fully up to
• 1:17:03
  speed now. Okay, and that's There and you
• 1:17:12
  said that she that your mom was blue.
• 1:17:14
  Yes. the way that you described seeing her you don't know what
• 1:17:19
  that was the way that that she was found, but presumably
• 1:17:24
  they're not going to move her. On site was she on her back or
• 1:17:30
  her stomach? And you said that she was?
• 1:17:34
  Like opposite the way she would normally sit in bed.
• 1:17:38
  And her the clothing was disheveled.
• 1:17:42
  And we're both feet on the ground or one foot.
• 1:17:49
  So, what did you take that that body position to me?
• 1:17:52
  you know, I just keep imagining that you know, she must have
• 1:17:58
  been like you know trying to take her clothes off just kind
• 1:18:02
  of like going to like a shop or A medical crisis.
• 1:18:26
  Annoying her. The questions.
• 1:18:34
  I'm sorry. Very lost.
• 1:18:36
  In redirects. No, redressing, TBR the witness,
• 1:18:41
  maybe excuse. All right, man, you are free to
• 1:18:44
  step out. Thank you.
• 1:18:46
  As I said, I believe you. Yes, that's fine.
• 1:18:49
  Do we Slide the other man upstairs?
• 1:18:51
  I have another matter. I need to take up.
• 1:18:55
  That shouldn't take very long. So this seems like a good spot
• 1:18:58
  for a breaks. If we can do that, maybe 10
• 1:19:00
  minutes. Can I bring it?
• 1:19:02
  Yeah, that's fine. Go ahead.
• 1:19:11
  Okay, friends. Here's what we'll do.
• 1:19:12
  We'll go ahead and go someplace else whilst he deals with the
• 1:19:18
  other matter. But I do want to come back
• 1:19:20
  because I'm curious where this goes.
• 1:19:22
  And we've got A little under three hours to experience it
• 1:19:26
  yet. So I think we'll be able to get
• 1:19:27
  through it all. Let's do this.
• 1:19:29
  Let's go to one of our new favorites.
• 1:19:32
  This is Judge aquilina. I have a CSR. 2004 Jennifer you
• 1:20:48
  have a yes, but I was just yes, so, where is you have?
• 1:20:58
  Thank you. It's good.
• 1:22:00
  All right, this is docket. 254868 FH. 254866 FH, 22, 227,
• 1:22:13
  FH, 22 226 FH. People say Michigan versus
• 1:22:17
  Michael Jamal Amory Council your appearances from the record.
• 1:22:21
  Good morning your honor APA books on the other people state
• 1:22:24
  of Michigan and Detroit from the public defender's office here to
• 1:22:27
  represent Mr. Amer who's standing to my right?
• 1:22:29
  Thank you sir, please raise your right hand.
• 1:22:31
  Do you swear her from the testimony of your back?
• 1:22:34
  To provide me the truth and nothing but the truth under
• 1:22:37
  penalty of perjury. Yes, thank you for your hands
• 1:22:40
  checking in medication yesterday, or today.
• 1:22:42
  Oh, I get, I don't want to know if, what if you take it, is it
• 1:22:48
  anything that would affect your ability to understand the court
• 1:22:51
  were returning? Is there medication?
• 1:22:54
  You're supposed to be on that? You're not on?
• 1:22:57
  Know, anytime fever covid or other illness?
• 1:23:02
  And have you had an opportunity to speak with Mr. Gurj, in
• 1:23:05
  regard to today's hearing? Yes.
• 1:23:08
  And all right, so sure, I have A failure to report your probation
• 1:23:17
  for a pre-sentence investigation. the PSI are as we
• 1:23:21
  call it and it looks like I signed a bench warrant. and
• 1:23:32
  January 14th, the set that you should Be helping him.
• 1:23:38
  You are already that that's an old man that's looking forward
• 1:23:43
  to. We do a bench warrant.
• 1:23:44
  Is that how he got arrested? Or not, go to show on this
• 1:23:48
  because you have a standing Mentor.
• 1:23:49
  I just don't have it much file. I don't know, it was I got
• 1:23:54
  arrested from Probation. They messed up and did a global
• 1:23:58
  deal and they put a warm you have sent yours Marshalls after
• 1:24:01
  me. And that's the reason that's he
• 1:24:05
  did have a warrant out of 50/50 which is I believe was what he
• 1:24:08
  was really taking into custody on on March 20th.
• 1:24:11
  Okay? So now we're supposed to be
• 1:24:14
  here. First sentencing and sure I
• 1:24:17
  can't proceed to sing because she failed to comply with the
• 1:24:20
  presets investigation report. So that's why you've been
• 1:24:23
  brought before the court and looks like March 10, probation
• 1:24:29
  attempts, to contact you to schedule it and You did contact
• 1:24:36
  them and it was scheduled for March 18th and then you fail to
• 1:24:41
  report to the probation office for That interview.
• 1:24:44
  And then they tried to call you but there was no answer and it
• 1:24:49
  could not leave a voicemail then on March, 19th, searched
• 1:24:55
  violent, to see if you are in custody.
• 1:24:57
  And there was no record of you being in custody, on April, 1st
• 1:25:01
  prior to completing a presence of investigation report.
• 1:25:04
  Again, they searched the Jail roster and did find that you
• 1:25:11
  were taking into custody March 20th and you were held at the
• 1:25:15
  Ingham County jail. So we can't receive a
• 1:25:17
  sentencing. So what we're going to do sir on
• 1:25:19
  this file, as I'm going to give you a new date for sentencing
• 1:25:24
  and you're going to sit in jail and these files until this
• 1:25:27
  pretty until sentencing. The actual setting you want to
• 1:25:33
  get out then just preach that suggestion for us to be done and
• 1:25:36
  your attorney can certainly file a motion.
• 1:25:38
  He knows how to do all of that so I can't receive you.
• 1:25:41
  You have made Quadruple work for probation.
• 1:25:45
  The reason I didn't go in is because they put a warrant for
• 1:25:48
  me. When I know they're gonna take
• 1:25:51
  me to jail, my son had three games in basketball.
• 1:25:53
  If I didn't want to miss his last three games in high school,
• 1:25:55
  that's the only reason I didn't go.
• 1:25:57
  One day was the game that three years, what day?
• 1:26:01
  I don't know. Exactly.
• 1:26:04
  I didn't think it. But that's the reason I didn't
• 1:26:06
  go to go to. I had a warrant I didn't want to
• 1:26:08
  miss his last game, sir, I'm gonna miss his last names and
• 1:26:11
  his whole career. I understand that.
• 1:26:21
  Because of these, because I'm here.
• 1:26:25
  I get it. I hate to miss games too but you
• 1:26:28
  have an obligation to this community and all you had to do
• 1:26:31
  was on this show up the 18 show up in the 19th, call do
• 1:26:35
  something, you didn't do it, we've been chasing you, sir, I
• 1:26:38
  called her and then when I fuck came in I found out.
• 1:26:41
  I looked like I had a warrant so that's why I was scared to come
• 1:26:44
  in. So I didn't want to miss the
• 1:26:46
  game, but I was, I have probation.
• 1:26:47
  So I have no reason to run for you guys and now I don't have
• 1:26:51
  the original Road. I was just and I have to get
• 1:26:54
  surgery on this it's not excuse not just what's this emergency
• 1:27:01
  surgery? Yeah, I got my hands smashed
• 1:27:04
  right before I got in here just to give a quart a little bit of
• 1:27:09
  information going on in Mason is he has been sentenced there on a
• 1:27:13
  matter where he's going to remain in jail till April 18th.
• 1:27:16
  I believe it. So we just wanted to ask the
• 1:27:19
  court to consider reinstating Bond after his report after his
• 1:27:24
  interview has been done. And hopefully that was within
• 1:27:28
  the next 10 days. How about this sir?
• 1:27:33
  After the present investigation report, I will really shoot I'll
• 1:27:37
  reinstate Bond. However, if you fail to show up
• 1:27:40
  for sentencing now, not only will you go to treatment as per
• 1:27:45
  the agreement, but you will spend a year jail.
• 1:27:49
  Look at a double whammy. Do not do this to me again.
• 1:27:52
  Here's the problem. It's really not to me.
• 1:27:56
  It's disrespectful to your community because we're spending
• 1:28:00
  a lot of money chasing after you and we didn't create these
• 1:28:03
  classes you did. So let's get a handle on it.
• 1:28:05
  You want to see your kids and follow the lobby the example
• 1:28:08
  that you can make a mistake and you can overcome it.
• 1:28:12
  All right, because you're not being a dad incarcerated and
• 1:28:15
  your kids know, you're in jail, right?
• 1:28:16
  Yes. Now he lives.
• 1:28:18
  Yeah, how proud of that is he Well then straighten up Sir
• 1:28:22
  because otherwise here's what's going to happen.
• 1:28:24
  You're just getting Mini-Me. Outfit.
• 1:28:29
  Because I see Generations. I had a father twice in the last
• 1:28:34
  couple of years. I had a father and son who had
• 1:28:36
  been seeing each other in a decade where they see each other
• 1:28:38
  in my lockup. If you want them to be you and
• 1:28:43
  your son, then you keep this Behavior.
• 1:28:44
  If you want him to stand the right path, be the athlete and
• 1:28:47
  all that. He can be the goodness.
• 1:28:49
  He was born to, then you pay the way because otherwise kids want
• 1:28:54
  to be with their parents, are his acting Carefree breaks a lot
• 1:28:57
  because you didn't care. You understand that there's a
• 1:29:00
  whole line set their special the teenagers today.
• 1:29:03
  So be the example, not the problem.
• 1:29:07
  I'm half of people is that acceptable.
• 1:29:11
  Yes, sure. It's great.
• 1:29:16
  We do need a sentence. Yeah.
• 1:29:18
  First Data I have to find. Okay.
• 1:29:23
  June 17th. At 9:30.
• 1:29:35
  Welcome to see you and then you can you'll be released after
• 1:29:39
  that. You better be here, June 17th at
• 1:29:40
  9:30. It was graduation.
• 1:29:43
  Before that great so you won't miss anything.
• 1:29:46
  No, excuse to be here. Do you think I'll be able to
• 1:29:51
  make it for sure? Things go well.
• 1:29:55
  It's up to you, sir. If you know, hey, if you violate
• 1:29:58
  the line, you're violate Bond conditions if you violate.
• 1:30:02
  You won't be because no one's going to let you out.
• 1:30:05
  Fall up to you sir. I know that Mr. Goodrich knows
• 1:30:09
  exactly what to tell you. So talk to him.
• 1:30:27
  We can hear. Well, soon as I have done your
• 1:30:38
  spinal be reinstated to be home. All for this record.
• 1:30:46
  Thank you, Anna. Okie dokie friends.
• 1:30:49
  We're gonna go ahead and go back to judge.
• 1:30:52
  Wiggins, it looks like they're racked back up, but I did a
• 1:30:55
  little more digging during this last hearing.
• 1:30:57
  Well, Wiggins was on his other mission.
• 1:31:02
  So basically these adult foster care facilities, generally,
• 1:31:08
  they're one to six residents and a family home, sometimes they're
• 1:31:12
  smaller or larger group homes, that could be up to 20 people,
• 1:31:16
  but they sit in this weird Middle Ground between Like
• 1:31:21
  assisted living and full on nursing care.
• 1:31:26
  So basically they're there to help bathe provide medicines
• 1:31:32
  feed, things like that, but it is not full on nursing care.
• 1:31:37
  Their legal. Literally responsible caregivers
• 1:31:41
  without actually being full medical providers.
• 1:31:45
  So it's a very weird middle of the road kind of Niche thing.
• 1:31:52
  Which explains why there could be issues with it because
• 1:31:55
  they're taking responsibility for these adults that need help.
• 1:32:01
  But they're not full-on health care workers. so, there you go.
• 1:32:06
  All right. Let's continue with this.
• 1:32:11
  Just one brief matter. Your previous witness.
• 1:32:15
  I forgot. I have an exhibit.
• 1:32:17
  That is American people's exhibit free.
• 1:32:19
  It is a photograph of this columns and other family
• 1:32:25
  members. I don't think the defendant has
• 1:32:28
  an objection to being admitted no objection.
• 1:32:32
  You may and have a picture of Kelly Harris for the court.
• 1:32:38
  Of course reference. She is the I'm sorry, the lady
• 1:32:42
  right here. Second from the last second from
• 1:32:45
  the left. Yeah.
• 1:32:50
  You. I take it back.
• 1:32:52
  Thank you. The people with next call.
• 1:33:07
  Amber Harris Runner. All right, Miss Harris.
• 1:33:46
  You're going to make your way between these half walls and
• 1:33:49
  eventually wind up in this chair next to me.
• 1:33:53
  But before you're seated, if you raise your right hand, you saw
• 1:33:56
  me swear or affirm that the testimony you give in this
• 1:33:59
  matter will be the truth. The whole truth and nothing but
• 1:34:01
  the truth. Yes, they have a seat.
• 1:34:05
  Whenever you're ready. Good morning man.
• 1:34:08
  Will you please State and spell your name?
• 1:34:18
  Here is it? Okay, if I call you Amber?
• 1:34:20
  Yeah, Amber, I have some questions regarding Kelly,
• 1:34:25
  Harris, and Pleasant Lake rides and events.
• 1:34:27
  That happened in 2022. I'd ask that you listen
• 1:34:35
  carefully to my questions and please focus on answering the
• 1:34:38
  questions that I asked. Is that something you can do
• 1:34:41
  this morning? Yes.
• 1:34:43
  Obviously, your name is Amber Harris.
• 1:34:45
  I mentioned just now Kelly, here is where you related to Kelly,
• 1:34:50
  Harris. No Harris.
• 1:34:51
  Is my married name hasn't said, okay, so no relationships.
• 1:34:55
  You're not really either through marriage or personally, to Kelly
• 1:34:59
  Harris. Do you recall Kelly Harris?
• 1:35:04
  Yes. Was she become were you?
• 1:35:07
  Employed at Pleasant Lake Lodge on November 1st of 2022.
• 1:35:11
  Yes. What was your job title?
• 1:35:13
  At Pleasant Lake? Lodge at that time, how are you
• 1:35:15
  married? What were your duties as
• 1:35:17
  property manager? I worked on the floor.
• 1:35:19
  Just like, as I remember employee and then I would also
• 1:35:22
  maintain like daily functions. Other staff.
• 1:35:28
  When you say on the floor, what does that mean?
• 1:35:32
  Like as a carrot. As a caregiver for residents.
• 1:35:38
  Yes. So I was a worker and a property
• 1:35:41
  manager. Okay, so even though your title
• 1:35:43
  is property manager, you had some involvement with caring for
• 1:35:45
  the residents, correct? Okay.
• 1:35:47
  Do you recall Kelly Harris being admitted to Pleasant Lake Lodge
• 1:35:51
  in November 1, 2 2. Nothing.
• 1:35:59
  The only thing I had to do. I look at the other house.
• 1:36:02
  She moved into the south house, okay?
• 1:36:06
  There was two different, two different houses on the property
• 1:36:10
  that were, that were part of Pleasant Lake Lodge.
• 1:36:12
  Correct. Okay.
• 1:36:13
  So Miss Harris moved in South house.
• 1:36:14
  Okay. I was I was living in staffers
• 1:36:18
  so some of the overnights I would have been responsible for
• 1:36:22
  oh in the South but I work daily in North house so I was working
• 1:36:27
  at Saturday. Billion dollars.
• 1:36:32
  For her woman in and that evening, Christine message.
• 1:36:38
  When your husband, if I were over in South house and put her
• 1:36:42
  guns and just some so they can be passed.
• 1:36:46
  Okay. Um when you were when you said
• 1:36:49
  when you when you mentioned Christy, are you referring to
• 1:36:52
  the defendant? Yes Christy Tucker Fleischer,
• 1:36:54
  and she's sitting in console table with her attorney.
• 1:36:57
  Thank you. Was she your supervisor or your
• 1:37:01
  boss? Yes.
• 1:37:01
  Okay, and she asked you that you said she asked you to input and
• 1:37:05
  meds. Can you explain what that means?
• 1:37:08
  in the computer system, so when somebody moves in they bring
• 1:37:11
  usually meds with them or prescriptions and you have to
• 1:37:16
  implement to our system so we can have Okay, so the I just to
• 1:37:24
  clarify the reason for putting the meds into the computer
• 1:37:26
  system so that anybody who's administering meds to the
• 1:37:31
  resident knows what is their supposed to receive?
• 1:37:33
  Is that accurate? Yeah, I know that.
• 1:37:36
  Okay, so what is how did that process work exactly with Kelly
• 1:37:42
  Harris a little over there and they were encounter. and about
• 1:37:48
  so I took them away. right Place in America.
• 1:37:58
  We say the system is that called the quickmire or the medication
• 1:38:03
  administration record, right? Okay.
• 1:38:06
  You said there was they said there was several bottles of
• 1:38:09
  pills sitting on the counter. Correct and then you just did
• 1:38:14
  you use the prescription information?
• 1:38:15
  That was on the label on those bottles to put that information
• 1:38:18
  into the WakeMed system? Yes.
• 1:38:22
  Was there any insulin included in those medications?
• 1:38:28
  Did Christy ever mention any insulin being on site?
• 1:38:32
  From what I understand when coming weekend, she brought me
• 1:38:36
  some with her but it wasn't the right one.
• 1:38:38
  And the one that she was supposed to have, she didn't
• 1:38:40
  have When did you, when did you receive that information?
• 1:38:44
  That is. Okay.
• 1:38:46
  So you're understanding if that time was that She didn't have
• 1:38:51
  the facility now. I have.
• 1:38:52
  And Miss Harris did not have the insulin that was prescribed to
• 1:38:56
  her, correct? Okay.
• 1:38:57
  And you didn't you aren't giving any insulin to put into the
• 1:39:01
  computer system for Kelly Harris.
• 1:39:03
  Okay. Did you later?
• 1:39:08
  Learn that and it was a your understanding that Kelly Harris
• 1:39:11
  was diabetic. Yes, you only get insulated.
• 1:39:14
  Sorry, you don't get insulin unless you are a diabetics,
• 1:39:18
  right? So you, you understood her to be
• 1:39:20
  diabetic, right? Did at some point, did you find
• 1:39:28
  out that there was insulin prescribed for Kelly Harris in
• 1:39:32
  the building? The day that she passed away
• 1:39:35
  that after she passed away. So after she passed away, you
• 1:39:40
  learned that there was insulin. Do you know what that in was
• 1:39:44
  called know, okay? How did you become aware that
• 1:39:49
  that Islam was President? How did you become aware at that
• 1:39:52
  time? That that insulin was present in
• 1:39:55
  the building? When Kelly gets passed away, I
• 1:39:58
  wasn't working in it. So I was Anderson was working.
• 1:40:04
  He got me. Kelly died.
• 1:40:07
  And so I went over to her house and, I was standing by the
• 1:40:16
  computer. And because he came in the
• 1:40:20
  house. And went to the fridge. the
• 1:40:24
  insulin for Kelly Harris were you aware of?
• 1:40:37
  Kelly Harris not feeling well a few days after she moved in.
• 1:40:41
  Yes. How did you become aware that
• 1:40:44
  the staff told me? And she if she needed to be sent
• 1:40:48
  to the hospital who would make that decision me or Percy?
• 1:40:53
  Okay. Was there any consideration
• 1:40:55
  giving to senior to the hospital?
• 1:40:57
  No, she was just she had diarrhea and wasn't feeling
• 1:41:03
  well, but there was a lovely around so we didn't you just
• 1:41:08
  treat symptoms. Did you know whether Christy the
• 1:41:14
  defendant was aware that Kelly Harris was not was experiencing
• 1:41:17
  those symptoms at that time. Yes.
• 1:41:20
  She was I mean we all Talked to Christy or they talked to me and
• 1:41:26
  I were talking about any issues during the day.
• 1:41:28
  And so so Christy news that probably wasn't feeling well.
• 1:41:33
  Yes, and it was showing signs of illness.
• 1:41:36
  Yes. did you ever did you look at the The information in the
• 1:41:51
  computer system regarding Kelly Harris after she died.
• 1:41:56
  What information like progress notes did you look at the
• 1:42:02
  progress notes at any point? Well, there aren't any questions
• 1:42:05
  passed away and then like and then started.
• 1:42:11
  Okay. So just again to clarify when as
• 1:42:14
  of the time that Kelly passed away there were no progress
• 1:42:17
  notes in the system regarding anything that happened with her
• 1:42:21
  while she was there correct? What type of information goes in
• 1:42:26
  the progress don't if you know yeah, so anything that happens
• 1:42:31
  during the day was President that's other than normal and
• 1:42:34
  sometimes even at the normal stuff and they're just so it Had
• 1:42:44
  a doctor's visit they had a visitor and they you know, what
• 1:42:48
  they did they played games was on the residents or they walk
• 1:42:51
  driveway if they were feeling. Well, that's something that
• 1:42:54
  we're going to progress. Yes.
• 1:42:56
  And let me back up just a little bit.
• 1:42:57
  When you at the time, Christian asked you to input the
• 1:43:00
  medications into the system, and she asked you to put it in order
• 1:43:04
  that Christie's, I'm sorry that Kelly's.
• 1:43:07
  Blood sugar needed to be checked or verified every day, you know?
• 1:43:13
  She had a thing on her arm that tested automatically.
• 1:43:16
  There was no order that anybody was supposed to ask her about
• 1:43:19
  that, or check on it or anything like that.
• 1:43:21
  No, she would tell us that. Okay?
• 1:43:39
  Do you know whether Christy altered, the medical records
• 1:43:44
  pertaining to Kelly Harris after Kelly died.
• 1:43:49
  Yes. He told me.
• 1:43:51
  What do you what do you know about that?
• 1:43:55
  She? went back and added in the
• 1:43:59
  system, and Check the schedule a little.
• 1:44:03
  But whatever was working these initials in the pastor or they
• 1:44:07
  gave it to her to take with her. It.
• 1:44:10
  So she put in when you say she put in initials you other
• 1:44:13
  caregivers initials objection to Leading I I can clarify the
• 1:44:19
  question. Go ahead, are you referring to
• 1:44:21
  another other caregivers initials correct?
• 1:44:23
  And when somebody's initials go in the system?
• 1:44:27
  What does that mean? I mean, they pass that
• 1:44:30
  medication or they had asked. So, but she was you said she put
• 1:44:34
  in other people's initials. Correct.
• 1:44:36
  Correct. Your knowledge did Kelly Harris
• 1:44:43
  receiving insulin. While she was alive and living
• 1:44:45
  at Pleasant Lake Lodge. She did not.
• 1:44:54
  Did Christy instruct the staff or the caregivers to do
• 1:44:58
  anything, with respect to the progress notes, she just said
• 1:45:02
  that go back and make sure he was there just recorded what
• 1:45:08
  happened. It's not really that uncommon
• 1:45:11
  for notes to get backdated, is it okay to put in information
• 1:45:15
  and in a patient's record or their chart after the fact as
• 1:45:20
  long as it's stuff that actually happened.
• 1:45:23
  Yes, in other words for if you forgot to do it the day it
• 1:45:27
  happened or even the next day you go in a few days later and
• 1:45:30
  put that information and that's there's no problem with that.
• 1:45:32
  Right? You can choose the time that you
• 1:45:34
  want it to be inputted per se mmm, but it will still be time
• 1:45:38
  to complete natural time to put it in.
• 1:45:40
  Oh, yeah, like sometimes you just get busy. or you know So if
• 1:45:46
  you went in on November 7th and good information about something
• 1:45:49
  that happened in November 2nd or 3rd, you get indicated happen on
• 1:45:53
  the second and third but it would show they put it in on the
• 1:45:56
  setup because all right. Yes.
• 1:45:58
  Yes, okay. And you said that you went back
• 1:46:06
  in and put it in that Kelly had received insulin while she was
• 1:46:11
  alive objection leaving. Did Christie go back in and
• 1:46:17
  document the Keller received in was alive?
• 1:46:20
  Yes. At some point did who was
• 1:46:26
  Valerie she was an employer. It was she a caregiver was she
• 1:46:33
  involving Kelly Harris is here. Yes, and so at some point the
• 1:46:37
  salary comes to you and say that Kelly what sugar was high?
• 1:46:41
  Yes, and what did you say to Valerie and response?
• 1:46:46
  Bias holder that we didn't have the insula and the average drink
• 1:46:50
  water and honey in the house and then I let Chris know.
• 1:46:56
  If you had known, there was insulin for Kelly to take at
• 1:47:00
  that time. Would you have told Valerie to
• 1:47:01
  give Kelly insulin? Yes.
• 1:47:14
  Thank you, man. That's all the questions I have.
• 1:47:20
  Cross. I'm gonna service.
• 1:47:24
  My name is Jerry Faber. We've never met.
• 1:47:26
  Correct. You were the property manager.
• 1:47:30
  The live in property manager correct.
• 1:47:34
  And you lived in the north house.
• 1:47:37
  And know at that time, I lived in this house back in, November
• 1:47:41
  20th, in the south house where she said you worked in the north
• 1:47:45
  house. Yes. so, the week of November
• 1:47:54
  1st through the work on Tuesday the 1st from 2 p.m.
• 1:48:07
  To 7 p.m. In the north house that sound
• 1:48:13
  accurate. know just schedule wasn't ever made from 2 to 7:00.
• 1:48:20
  It was in your full days, which would be like.
• 1:48:23
  Seven to eight seven eight and 8 a.m.
• 1:48:25
  Or it was a half day. It was 2 p.m.
• 1:48:28
  Today. You recognize.
• 1:48:42
  What is a special? Okay.
• 1:48:47
  Do you see your your own name on that schedule?
• 1:48:51
  Yes. And for which we talking about
• 1:48:54
  here? Okay.
• 1:48:58
  November 22 30 so I'm just gonna be going to your Your schedule
• 1:49:09
  as it appears on this, right? Can I say yes for second.
• 1:49:13
  This is my next round. I was in the past, right, but
• 1:49:22
  that is correct. There was another staff that was
• 1:49:24
  delayed so there was somebody The shifts are overlapping, so
• 1:49:27
  that's correct. I would move for the admission
• 1:49:30
  Runner, but there's multiple other names and information that
• 1:49:33
  she might not qualified to turn. Ms, Harris.
• 1:49:41
  So on Tuesday, the 1st, the schedule indicates 2 p.m. to 7
• 1:49:47
  p.m. And then there's an end next to
• 1:49:50
  that, I would be for North, all right. then below that same day,
• 1:49:54
  eight to ten 8 p.m. to 10 p.m. South for overnights.
• 1:50:04
  Oh yes. So that basically So when you're
• 1:50:10
  doing all you're doing overnight, it starts at 8 or I
• 1:50:14
  guess but you're only paid hourly until 10:00 it's like
• 1:50:18
  settle down time. Like so on the residents here
• 1:50:21
  like actively working, you're actually out there doing stuff,
• 1:50:24
  you know, like closing on the kitchen or whatever.
• 1:50:27
  And then at 10 p.m. It's overnight time.
• 1:50:30
  So it's not paying the same. So yeah, that's correct.
• 1:50:33
  Okay, no meant to pass the name them so when you are so At 2
• 1:50:40
  p.m. On Tuesday the 1st.
• 1:50:41
  That's when you are shift started, but it was at the
• 1:50:44
  north. Right and Miss Harris was
• 1:50:48
  admitted to Kelly Harris was admitted to the South right?
• 1:50:52
  Okay. Did you see her upon admission?
• 1:50:56
  Know I really I introduced myself to her.
• 1:51:01
  The day after she moved in because I didn't do I was
• 1:51:03
  overnight. Unless I was I was over at night
• 1:51:07
  and I went into her myself to her the first name that I worked
• 1:51:11
  over at the shoe. So yes, I did.
• 1:51:17
  And for Wednesday the 2nd, there's no you are off that day.
• 1:51:22
  Yeah, there's another. And on Thursday the 3rd.
• 1:51:37
  Looks like you've got 2 p.m. To 8 p.m.
• 1:51:41
  North And then below that it says meds slash clean.
• 1:51:46
  What does that mean? What's the shift two to eight
• 1:51:54
  two to eight and then again eight to ten in the South for
• 1:51:58
  overnight? But in between those two times
• 1:52:03
  it says meds slash clean. is that like a just a task that is
• 1:52:09
  a reminder to do or just means that my job from two to
• 1:52:37
  eight like training and they're the first thing working their
• 1:52:43
  job was to care of By do men she mean administrative medications
• 1:52:50
  or intermediate. So that's the north house and
• 1:52:56
  then Friday before Same shift 2 p.m. to 8 p.m. at North.
• 1:53:03
  And 8 p.m. to 10 p.m. South.
• 1:53:07
  And it looks like. So, you work, the Thursday and
• 1:53:12
  Friday during Kelly Harris estate.
• 1:53:13
  Here, you can see here on Wednesday I saw her the Night
• 1:53:25
  checks. Okay?
• 1:53:27
  And you have nothing on the schedule for Wednesday.
• 1:53:29
  So that would have been a day that you were not.
• 1:53:31
  You get like Normally two nights off.
• 1:53:37
  Well for that kind of that was a more active household over more
• 1:53:42
  work. So he, and I cried you work the
• 1:53:52
  age of 10 pm overnight at the South house.
• 1:53:58
  So that would have been Kelly Harris's.
• 1:54:00
  Last night, I didn't work her last night.
• 1:54:02
  Christina, even though the schedule says she worked It
• 1:54:09
  might have been changed but like just changed.
• 1:54:13
  I didn't work the night. I was sleeping and she came with
• 1:54:16
  me and Christina will be over. Okay, she was discovered
• 1:54:22
  Saturday morning the 5th correct?
• 1:54:25
  Are you there Saturday morning? Yeah, they came up.
• 1:54:28
  Okay but you weren't working. I was not doing it.
• 1:54:31
  When was the last time you saw Kelly?
• 1:54:37
  I guess. Last night that I worked.
• 1:54:45
  Fine. She was excited about.
• 1:54:53
  Marie remember. Who her roommate was?
• 1:54:57
  What Hermes name was? Yes.
• 1:54:59
  What's what was the roommates named Julie, Julie?
• 1:55:07
  Do you know Julie's last name? Please really read.
• 1:55:16
  And about how old was he. It so as a property manager you
• 1:55:35
  do your work the floor as a standard caregiver.
• 1:55:38
  But you also have managerial duties right those include
• 1:55:42
  entering medications into quickmar.
• 1:55:45
  The text you and you did, correct, okay.
• 1:55:56
  Yeah administrative access. it just didn't see more stuff. like
• 1:56:11
  okay change things in the system.
• 1:56:20
  How many regular staff? And or any of them licensed
• 1:56:34
  nurses helping insistence. Here and you have none of those
• 1:56:44
  licenses, correct? No other than perhaps a CPR
• 1:56:48
  certification you have any any medical training at all?
• 1:56:52
  To your knowledge, isn't it? True that nobody on staff there
• 1:56:58
  had such trainings. my knowledge Christy Christy has no medical
• 1:57:05
  licensure or training. Hey.
• 1:57:08
  I don't know. It's just I mean it's a business
• 1:57:11
  owner. and direct testimony from the prosecutor you indicated
• 1:57:23
  that. you and Christy had a text exchange about entering Kelly
• 1:57:35
  Harris's meds into Quick Mart isn't the standard practice to
• 1:57:41
  go by the med sheet from the hospital when entering I wasn't
• 1:57:44
  providing machine, but yeah. Okay, you're saying so you
• 1:57:48
  aren't provided sheet, right? So when?
• 1:57:52
  when Christy asked you to go by the med sheet, she didn't ask me
• 1:57:57
  to, She said to go over there and the meds were on the counter
• 1:58:02
  and then put them in the system for the power capacity.
• 1:58:07
  She didn't text you on the med sheet had the times.
• 1:58:11
  Did you see that? She might have I there was no.
• 1:58:19
  Mention. And so you're acknowledging that
• 1:58:23
  like going by the bottle. That's not the right procedure.
• 1:58:28
  Correct. But she Also, don't just text
• 1:58:33
  everything. It's all.
• 1:58:34
  So that's like a walking talking.
• 1:58:36
  Yeah. And there's talking.
• 1:58:38
  Okay, so I probably must Perfectly communicate, that you
• 1:58:48
  asked her for veggie. And that's that, I mean we have
• 1:58:53
  your word on that, right? Okay.
• 1:58:58
  You don't dispute the fact that the the insulin Lantus was on
• 1:59:05
  the met from the hospital. I never saw the emotion so I can
• 1:59:09
  tell you that. All I know about insulin was
• 1:59:12
  that which moved in? She didn't have the right one.
• 1:59:17
  And how do you know she had the wrong one with her if you didn't
• 1:59:20
  know that there was any insulin? Know I didn't know that there
• 1:59:23
  was any insulin in the house. or her to take I just know that you
• 1:59:30
  asked because no I didn't ask as a manager of the facility.
• 1:59:35
  You didn't. Obviously you your without
• 1:59:38
  medical training, you know, that insulin is a very important
• 1:59:41
  medication for diabetics. Yes.
• 1:59:44
  And you have a management role in this facility.
• 1:59:47
  Not when yes or no. Yes. and you were aware on your
• 1:59:54
  own testimony from the day one that she was there.
• 1:59:58
  That this diabetic did not have insulin.
• 2:00:01
  So obviously you took it upon yourself as manager of this
• 2:00:07
  facility to contact Christy immediately.
• 2:00:12
  She didn't have yes, Christina Evans Lincoln.
• 2:00:25
  Wasn't like at a doctor's office when you talk to people.
• 2:00:29
  It was just she doesn't have any insulin, she brought the wrong
• 2:00:32
  one and she doesn't have the right one.
• 2:00:34
  But Chrissy. That's that's your account for
• 2:00:37
  what crispy told you, yes. The next day that you worked.
• 2:00:45
  Here's Kelly, Harris diabetic. I didn't ask any medication the
• 2:00:50
  south house were killing them. Did you inquire as manager live
• 2:00:54
  in property manager? You inquire, if the insulin
• 2:00:58
  issue had been resolved, no, that's my coordinator's job.
• 2:01:01
  Oh, okay. So you didn't you didn't see a
• 2:01:04
  safety concern at herself. That's he had said that she was
• 2:01:11
  contacting the pharmacy. That's Christie's job.
• 2:01:15
  Chris Christie's job, but to your knowledge.
• 2:01:17
  She Kelly Harris did not have her necessary insulin.
• 2:01:23
  That next day that you work, correct.
• 2:01:27
  And you didn't take it upon yourself.
• 2:01:31
  To provide care for Mrs. I didn't work at that house.
• 2:01:38
  So now my not my responsibility. So if you ask me my job as a
• 2:01:42
  manager, I would explain you that didn't have anything to do
• 2:01:45
  with LED coordination. I had to do with day-to-day life
• 2:01:48
  of presidents and any issues staff had, like making sure they
• 2:01:52
  came to work. Making sure they had everything
• 2:01:54
  they needed for meals that kind of stuff.
• 2:01:56
  Entering progress notes. Yeah, you can do that, right?
• 2:02:00
  Enter progress, note, yes, yes. Okay, so so there's a record
• 2:02:05
  then of you entering progress notes during the week saying
• 2:02:09
  that Miss Harris still doesn't have her insulin know because I
• 2:02:13
  didn't work during the day. I have nothing to do with her
• 2:02:16
  medications, so I wouldn't even. Your testimony was anything that
• 2:02:21
  happens out of the normal would be put into these progress
• 2:02:23
  notes. Yes, the staff that works that
• 2:02:26
  day. We'll put those notes and I
• 2:02:29
  wouldn't sold around. So you just have the you just
• 2:02:33
  have the not my job blinders on as I can only have one person
• 2:02:40
  speak to a time so it's make sure the questions asked and
• 2:02:43
  then answered High School. I spoke to Christine each day.
• 2:02:48
  About multiple things Christy Christy mentioned to you that
• 2:02:53
  she was actively working at with the pharmacy to try to get the
• 2:02:57
  prescription issue dealt with correct.
• 2:03:00
  So she was and you know this she was actively working to get the
• 2:03:06
  insulin issue resolved. Yes. she called the pharmacy the
• 2:03:13
  data television and said we don't have this incline.
• 2:03:18
  And then the next day or the day after one or the other.
• 2:03:20
  I don't remember as it was like four years ago.
• 2:03:24
  We still didn't have the insulin and Chrissy followed up with the
• 2:03:27
  pharmacy. So she was actively working to
• 2:03:29
  get that fixed. Yes.
• 2:03:31
  Yes, you call that. You you would have the ability
• 2:03:37
  to to contact. The hospital or an ambulance if
• 2:03:45
  you believed that there was a critical condition occurring
• 2:03:49
  right? Yes.
• 2:03:51
  You can do that. I won she didn't feel well there
• 2:03:57
  was a bug going around so we can think of And when our sugar was
• 2:04:02
  I I instructed Valerie. the instructions that I knew what to
• 2:04:07
  do and I told Chrissy at that time she instructed Center
• 2:04:11
  anywhere. She just said she was gonna find
• 2:04:14
  out where the pharmacy hadn't said that that was probably when
• 2:04:17
  she did the following. when her shirt and in all your
• 2:04:22
  interactions with Kelly Harris, she was pleasant and lucid.
• 2:04:28
  Yes, I don't care much. In the times that you did see
• 2:04:32
  her she was fine and that that's even later on in the week.
• 2:04:37
  Correct? Yes, sir.
• 2:04:37
  Blood sugar was high but she seemed okay.
• 2:04:39
  She didn't seem like physically. Industries How do you know that
• 2:04:44
  her blood sugar was fine? Because she told staff and staff
• 2:04:48
  told me. So she was monitoring her.
• 2:04:51
  She had a long term you saw that yourself.
• 2:04:54
  No. that's you know, which arm and she never told you. that you
• 2:05:09
  yourself That her blood sugar was high.
• 2:05:12
  Know, I have very little interaction with only and
• 2:05:16
  they're sleeping during that time.
• 2:05:18
  So, it was really just in the evening.
• 2:05:21
  When I? Would go color the house.
• 2:05:24
  But I had contact with. and, What would Christie's typical
• 2:05:32
  schedule, B. It, it shows Tuesday the 1st and
• 2:05:36
  Wednesday or Wednesday 9:00 to 983.
• 2:05:41
  Monday through Wednesday evening and that's consistent with
• 2:05:45
  what's on the schedule. So that's consistent with your
• 2:05:47
  memory. So, she worked Tuesday, the 1st
• 2:05:51
  and Wednesday, the 2nd. She crispy did not work
• 2:05:56
  Thursday, or Friday. Was your testimony.
• 2:06:01
  She worked Monday? Yes, at her.
• 2:06:02
  Regular schedule is Monday. Okay, so this is consistent with
• 2:06:07
  that. You wouldn't have any reason to
• 2:06:08
  correct. So she wasn't on site.
• 2:06:12
  Thursday, the 3rd or Friday the 4th probably not right.
• 2:06:16
  So who's in charge when she's not there?
• 2:06:20
  Manager. Hey, Well, yeah, I mean
• 2:06:23
  everybody's pretty self-sufficient.
• 2:06:25
  You don't need it. There will be times where
• 2:06:29
  neither one of us were there. I wasn't like walking around but
• 2:06:33
  you did work both of those days, correct?
• 2:06:35
  And as the living property manager the buck stops with you,
• 2:06:40
  right? No, I'm a filter. your filter
• 2:06:47
  Yeah, I feel. like No, she thoughts.
• 2:07:35
  We get that marked. So there's some Journey was
• 2:07:47
  Marcus. That's at a three pages.
• 2:07:50
  You could just take a moment. And review that does that look
• 2:07:55
  familiar to you? Yeah, yeah you guess I mean is
• 2:08:01
  it thanks for text right for vodka.
• 2:08:04
  Yeah, the prosecutor show you that in the last couple of days.
• 2:08:12
  No, yeah. Okay.
• 2:08:14
  So you're seeing this for the first time this week, right?
• 2:08:17
  Because I look familiar to you. Yeah.
• 2:08:28
  And is that a text exchange between you and Christy?
• 2:08:35
  And what's the date on the text change?
• 2:08:39
  The first that's Tuesday the 1st, this was the date that
• 2:08:43
  Kelly Harris was admitted, right?
• 2:08:48
  read, oh I moved to the admission of Defense exhibit a A
• 2:08:54
  note is received. Can you read into the record for
• 2:09:02
  the judge? Please.
• 2:09:05
  Just go line by line. and identify if it's you texting, or
• 2:09:11
  Christy texting and we'll just go line by line through this
• 2:09:14
  document Is Kelly's meds and system.
• 2:09:17
  I've said that Christine And I'll check.
• 2:09:23
  And then I said no nothing. That shit.
• 2:09:28
  Will you? Like, six or seven.
• 2:09:39
  What does that mean? You don't know what OBM why?
• 2:09:46
  I don't know. I don't like six or seven.
• 2:09:54
  Right. Is that?
• 2:09:55
  So six or seven. That's her to the number of
• 2:09:57
  medications. Yes, don't know.
• 2:10:03
  I assume like that's sounds about right?
• 2:10:07
  There's about that many bottles but I don't.
• 2:10:09
  I couldn't tell you what OEM wins, she probably typed and
• 2:10:13
  then what was your response? Where are they?
• 2:10:16
  I'm going to kill you. I have to scan my own legally.
• 2:10:21
  Where are they? And I'm going to kill you.
• 2:10:22
  I have to scan my own meds lady. I have to scan my illness like
• 2:10:27
  past my own meds right across. You have to scan, you have to
• 2:10:31
  enter your own medications. In know, I have to scan So, we
• 2:10:38
  pass the medication, you scan the barcode.
• 2:10:40
  Most of them medications. Don't come the models that come
• 2:10:42
  in cards. There's a barcode.
• 2:10:44
  Okay, so you can barcode and tells the system that you're
• 2:10:47
  passing that, all right? So when I say again, I'm saying
• 2:10:52
  cats, it's a scanner, I have a scanner, like us, your own ones,
• 2:10:56
  not not the north house president, that was working at
• 2:11:01
  the North house, okay? That's why you were upset
• 2:11:03
  because you had extra work there.
• 2:11:05
  Wasn't outside. I'm gonna kill you.
• 2:11:08
  We talked like that. I don't Christie since I was a
• 2:11:11
  kid. We didn't talk like, co-workers.
• 2:11:16
  Yeah, we're gonna talk about your background in a little bit,
• 2:11:19
  but so please continue with the text.
• 2:11:26
  LOL. Christine the same LOL.
• 2:11:32
  Or I thought they'd have the male already, I sent her
• 2:11:35
  everything I'm assuming she's talking about her sister and
• 2:11:38
  then coordinator. That they have the manor
• 2:11:41
  already. I sent her everything her to
• 2:11:43
  you, as who And Spurs that P&O right next to each other because
• 2:11:50
  that'd be South. Okay.
• 2:11:53
  And then you what's your response to To South Lowell.
• 2:12:01
  And she said, no, Pharmacy, was supposed to put them in.
• 2:12:06
  So, she talking about the pharmacy is supposed to entering
• 2:12:08
  Hermits and that's LPC correct. And they had as a vendor, they
• 2:12:13
  had access to The Kwik Mart system.
• 2:12:16
  They they routinely enter in. Next.
• 2:12:20
  So don't they, we prefer them to write and that's a service that
• 2:12:23
  they provide so that you keep going back to to that Pharmacy,
• 2:12:26
  right? And its customary and you prefer
• 2:12:30
  it that the farm is he enters that that information incorrect.
• 2:12:34
  They didn't do that in this case.
• 2:12:35
  Did they Nope. And what's the next line and by
• 2:12:44
  doing? I didn't ask Mel to do it by
• 2:12:49
  Christine. And what's yours?
• 2:12:53
  What's your next text? All right.
• 2:12:56
  There, in the months are in the system. and, You didn't qualify
• 2:13:02
  that so that would. That would take the recipient of
• 2:13:06
  this text to assume that all the meds are in isn't, isn't that
• 2:13:08
  true? Well, judge object to her being
• 2:13:10
  asked to speculated about somebody else's?
• 2:13:13
  Thought process or state of mind.
• 2:13:16
  Responds. It's not a. it's rationally
• 2:13:21
  based on the conversation that we just entered into and all lay
• 2:13:27
  a little more foundation for that.
• 2:13:28
  All right, overrule the objection from now.
• 2:13:31
  Sorry, sustain the objection, sir.
• 2:13:34
  Thank you. Kelly first, comment to you
• 2:13:40
  Christie's. First time on TV is, is Kelly's,
• 2:13:43
  meds in the system? Okay.
• 2:13:47
  Your last comment is there in? That's referring to you didn't
• 2:13:55
  say I put in Gabby and oxy. Put in all the meds, right and
• 2:14:01
  that sounds even put in. Yes.
• 2:14:02
  Okay, and it's also true that you did not get that information
• 2:14:07
  from the med sheet from the hospital.
• 2:14:10
  Know we were in the counter in the kitchen.
• 2:14:14
  And the practice the preferred practice if the pharmacy doesn't
• 2:14:18
  enter it in its for you to go off the Medici, isn't that
• 2:14:21
  correct? No, the Met coordinator.
• 2:14:25
  If you're entering in the medications into quickmar,
• 2:14:28
  you're supposed to go up the media, aren't you?
• 2:14:35
  that Is that a yes? It's not uncommon and a lot of
• 2:14:42
  times they come from other AFC homes and hospitals.
• 2:14:45
  They don't have a machine. They just bring bottles where
• 2:14:48
  they come from the private homes, and that's all just
• 2:14:50
  waiting for the prettiest doctor.
• 2:14:53
  So a changes in times in situations.
• 2:14:56
  I did it. Correctly for what the I was
• 2:14:59
  going to? And you did not enter Lantus
• 2:15:02
  into that system. There was no latest entering.
• 2:15:11
  according to you, according to the judges at this point is
• 2:15:15
  getting argumentative. I mean, it's I think the point
• 2:15:18
  has been made. I agree, let's move on.
• 2:15:38
  Let's talk about your background.
• 2:15:39
  You don't like Christy. Correct.
• 2:15:42
  So fair to say no no. That's not fair.
• 2:15:46
  No, you don't like her. That's okay, no.
• 2:15:51
  Okay. You didn't tell investigators
• 2:15:56
  that you don't like the stalker. I don't know.
• 2:16:02
  It's more complicated than this is not like, I'm not like
• 2:16:05
  somebody. The question's will get a little
• 2:16:11
  bit more complicated. So my question was, did you tell
• 2:16:15
  investigators in this incident that you do not like Mr. I could
• 2:16:22
  you first met her in 2000? Ish.
• 2:16:30
  Maybe a little. Bit, how old would you be at
• 2:16:33
  that time in 2000? That's Your mom Kathy began to
• 2:16:41
  work with Christie's mom. Out at Pleasant Lake but at a
• 2:16:47
  similar facility, right? Cool thing.
• 2:16:53
  Is it? True in the early 2000s, 2002
• 2:16:56
  2003, you actually moved in and lived with Christine.
• 2:17:01
  Know. It's not true in 2904 South US
• 2:17:06
  131. Rented, an apartment from
• 2:17:18
  Christine in 2006 correct for a couple years.
• 2:17:23
  Till you stop paying rent. Okay.
• 2:17:28
  Yes. he wanted to 2017 Percy hired you as Direct Care staff,
• 2:17:45
  correct and He worked there for a couple of years until you
• 2:17:49
  moved to Salt Lake City. know Where did you move?
• 2:17:54
  Yes, where did you? wear Lake City So not okay, so
• 2:18:00
  Lake City. Correct.
• 2:18:01
  Okay. Um came back in 2021 Christie
• 2:18:06
  heyer. Do you again she asked me and
• 2:18:10
  you did yes, and you moved into the north facility.
• 2:18:14
  I lived in the north before that.
• 2:18:16
  First time I worked there. I ended up.
• 2:18:23
  Okay, and you did that from 2021 through the November incident
• 2:18:31
  that we're here in Portmore. works for Christie, I was gonna
• 2:18:38
  live in Illinois and then we'll go and start working for
• 2:18:41
  Christie. When she asked me to come back
• 2:18:43
  and I came back and then again more and then the Southland
• 2:18:48
  became available. And it's a way out when we're
• 2:18:53
  Sons my family, so I wanted to live there and so I ended up in
• 2:18:56
  the cell phone. So. and that passed the galley
• 2:19:01
  incident until November 24th Yeah, remember that day.
• 2:19:10
  Actually, I had to figure it out.
• 2:19:11
  So I didn't know what the answer to tell you.
• 2:19:14
  Okay, I didn't I know that the month but nothing here.
• 2:19:17
  All right. So is it true or is it not that
• 2:19:19
  from 2021 until? Basically, December 5th of 2023.
• 2:19:28
  You were working and or living at Pleasant Lake, correct?
• 2:19:32
  Okay. and you got in a fiction notice from Janine in September
• 2:19:41
  2020 series, I correct so And you recall the reason why they
• 2:19:47
  wanted to do out? So a noble purpose.
• 2:19:58
  And did you agree to to move out?
• 2:20:05
  Here it was later than Revolution notice, but I moved
• 2:20:10
  out early to us the 5th of July. Right, and you were serve papers
• 2:20:16
  in November? Because you're refusing to move
• 2:20:21
  out, isn't that correct? I was having trouble relocating
• 2:20:24
  that children. So yes.
• 2:20:26
  Yes. December 5th, he finally moved
• 2:20:30
  out. Alright, so a couple of months
• 2:20:32
  after the eviction notice. Yes.
• 2:20:38
  I'm happy about that. Right the police to the point
• 2:20:47
  where charges were filed against you for malicious destruction of
• 2:20:50
  property. Actually didn't trash it.
• 2:20:55
  Also, please approach hold on. Okay, this is a good chance to
• 2:21:13
  hit the pause button first. Barbara, thank you for gifting
• 2:21:17
  five, memberships. So just to bring people up to
• 2:21:20
  speed who might be joining in the middle of this.
• 2:21:23
  This is a preliminary examination.
• 2:21:27
  For a woman named Christy Tucker fleisch, Refresher.
• 2:21:31
  She is the administrator of Pleasant Lake Lodge and Cadillac
• 2:21:35
  Cadillac Michigan. And this is a charge of
• 2:21:39
  involuntary, manslaughter long in the short of it, they had a
• 2:21:43
  resident there who was supposed to get insulin and did not.
• 2:21:46
  And there is the reason for her death Looking up Lake Pleasant
• 2:21:52
  Lodge going to their website. They actually have two homes
• 2:21:55
  there, both housed, 20 people. I think you've heard like North
• 2:22:00
  home in South home. So they have a total of 40
• 2:22:03
  people. 40% capacity. And in their about section it
• 2:22:08
  says for decades Janine Tucker. Coomer has been the study force
• 2:22:13
  of compassion in the greater Cadillac Community, trusted
• 2:22:16
  leader blah blah blah. In 2009, she bought Lake
• 2:22:20
  Pleasant Lodge, it was old dilapidated, she restored it in
• 2:22:24
  2009 all so Christy Tucker flesh freser probably followed in.
• 2:22:30
  Her mother's footsteps stuffed into leadership with passion
• 2:22:35
  purpose and deep personal commitment to passionate care.
• 2:22:40
  Interestingly enough at the top of their website in the about
• 2:22:43
  section, it says family owned Community focused.
• 2:22:47
  Get this reputation driven, I think the reputation is taking a
• 2:22:52
  bit of a hit. And who that's the long and
• 2:22:55
  short of what's going on, let's get back to it.
• 2:23:18
  December 2023. so, a year December 5th.
• 2:23:24
  When you finally left residents there.
• 2:23:29
  A little bit over a year after. This Paris is dead.
• 2:23:40
  Here. Isn't it true that immediately
• 2:23:47
  after being here? Know, I don't know.
• 2:23:55
  I don't know. I don't know the day.
• 2:23:57
  I thought I don't think it was last in a year.
• 2:24:00
  I think. I might explain.
• 2:24:04
  Basic record of winning occurred.
• 2:24:06
  Well, then this is your sworn testimony under, right?
• 2:24:11
  I don't know the exact date. I mean, it's really like years
• 2:24:14
  ago. Right around that time.
• 2:24:21
  Also. Isn't it true that you demanded
• 2:24:26
  from Christy 70,000 dollars? Know that work or you would go
• 2:24:31
  to the attorney general know? Her mother name.
• 2:24:35
  Oh okay. Who's the she's actually the
• 2:24:38
  owner of Pleasant like, great. so, when I get to the source
• 2:24:42
  correct, right, and you demanded 7000 dollars or you would go to
• 2:24:47
  the AG Attorney general, okay, I don't think I ever use the term,
• 2:24:54
  which is a prosecutor police. Okay, memories.
• 2:25:03
  How much are that 70,000 dollars?
• 2:25:04
  Did you actually get? Oh, that's why we're here today,
• 2:25:08
  right? You know.
• 2:25:12
  Because you, well, I, you know, I rejected the form of the
• 2:25:16
  question there are multiple reasons why we're here not
• 2:25:19
  related to this Witness. Response.
• 2:25:26
  To the extent of her actions. I think the question is fair.
• 2:25:32
  Well, she doesn't mean she can talk about the play that she
• 2:25:35
  made and, you know, about that. But in terms of what happened
• 2:25:38
  after she made it complain, why it happened, I don't know that's
• 2:25:41
  been established as she has any dollars.
• 2:25:43
  Things yeah. Charging decisions lie with the
• 2:25:45
  prosecutor Attorney General's office.
• 2:25:47
  So, why we're here today? I think was within their
• 2:25:49
  purview. I think you can, certainly
• 2:25:50
  question as to why she did what she did and bringing it to the
• 2:25:54
  authorities. But as far as why we're here
• 2:25:55
  today, that's up to the prosecutor This isn't true that
• 2:26:02
  you were the initial. Complaints.
• 2:26:08
  I wasn't. Original investigator, were you
• 2:26:18
  a party to that conversation? Charlotte.
• 2:26:25
  She was the first person that originally, I was not the
• 2:26:29
  original miserable whistle. That's what it's called, okay?
• 2:26:32
  And your employer and the whole thing, there's no question
• 2:26:35
  presented to you. Just listen for a question,
• 2:26:37
  okay? Yes.
• 2:26:42
  Let's go through the 20, the 70,000 dollars. 20,000 for Adam,
• 2:26:49
  my husband. He did some work at you live
• 2:26:54
  there and he worked there. Okay. so, you're demanding
• 2:26:56
  payment for For him, okay. 25000 dollars Severance for you.
• 2:27:04
  And 10000 moving bonus. Three times. and, In another
• 2:27:15
  reason you were just holding it in your pocket for a year for
• 2:27:19
  the right time to Spring, right? No investigated.
• 2:27:24
  We all doing that year. We were all investigated by the
• 2:27:28
  same, right? And I was where that he had the
• 2:27:34
  information we had. Here and report that information
• 2:27:40
  away. 10,000 dollars in mistreatment pay exploitation
• 2:27:54
  that I mean this is these are this is your text, right?
• 2:28:01
  You needed you wanted that money or you were going to the police?
• 2:28:05
  just for this but that's what you communicated.
• 2:28:12
  Yeah, hey that or I'm going to the cops.
• 2:28:18
  And you didn't get any of that money.
• 2:28:20
  No. he has passcodes to fingerprint
• 2:28:53
  locks on the main office of the mid closets most Deluxe aren't
• 2:29:04
  thumbprint. That's a key. and then I can't
• 2:29:15
  remember this. The thing about it's still just
• 2:29:20
  have keys and Christie's office had. to go and did you have
• 2:29:33
  access to those? Okay, what about the main
• 2:29:38
  office? Yeah, I have my pen would work
• 2:29:41
  to open the main office. We have everybody that had
• 2:29:45
  access to anything like that had their own pens.
• 2:29:47
  So where would resident files be kept?
• 2:29:52
  in Christmas and where they come under locking key. we're gonna I
• 2:29:59
  mean the size of the door locks the office where they secured
• 2:30:02
  they were inside her office and that's where they were required
• 2:30:06
  to be maintained. Right?
• 2:30:06
  Yeah you you didn't have any Resident files taken out of the
• 2:30:12
  office and in your room, correct?
• 2:30:14
  Yeah, that wouldn't that wouldn't have that wouldn't
• 2:30:17
  well. No, I didn't have any.
• 2:30:20
  What do you mean by Resident file?
• 2:30:22
  from main office in your home and your where you lived?
• 2:30:28
  No, I didn't have no it wouldn't be any evidence of that.
• 2:30:31
  There might be that sheets or something. like like that's why
• 2:30:37
  we need to explain when you like files because they're files like
• 2:30:40
  their they have different about like their information where
• 2:30:45
  they have clients and staff files. clients Did you take them
• 2:30:55
  out of the name? You're all yeah, what about
• 2:30:59
  other what about residents or clients know so that wouldn't be
• 2:31:02
  any evidence of that at all. well I didn't take Resident
• 2:31:09
  files at all, or anybody else's I took my own personal files
• 2:31:13
  out. But if there was any found in
• 2:31:16
  their house, do you have to remember that they had access to
• 2:31:19
  the house for a week before they call the police and we report?
• 2:31:24
  it locked it down to the wheels to get inside the night that I
• 2:31:28
  left. I wanted an hour later and I
• 2:31:31
  believe that a change the door one of them one of the doors.
• 2:31:43
  Turns of convictions you have for theft fraud or dishonesty,
• 2:31:48
  isn't it? True that you have?
• 2:31:50
  a credit card fraud information. Yes.
• 2:31:55
  That's what it is. It's Mister that's stolen credit
• 2:32:00
  cards from Meijer. Yes. all probation
• 2:32:19
  is that during the entire four-day period that Kelly
• 2:32:28
  Harris was at Pleasant Lake from day one you were aware that
• 2:32:34
  there that she needed insulin and to your knowledge.
• 2:32:40
  There wasn't any. That entire week there wasn't
• 2:32:43
  any. At that location to administer
• 2:32:47
  her, correct, correct. You didn't take it upon yourself
• 2:32:53
  to try to correct that medical issue.
• 2:32:58
  Correct. I reported answer my progress
• 2:33:13
  you had the ability to enter progress notes and say.
• 2:33:18
  Where's the insulin she needs? She's diabetic.
• 2:33:20
  She she's got high readings. This is a situation outside of
• 2:33:27
  the normal and to use your own words.
• 2:33:29
  He had the ability to enter and communicate those in the form of
• 2:33:34
  progress notes. For system wasn't set up a bill
• 2:33:39
  have shape passed away to eat. You they were entered after she
• 2:33:42
  passed away. everything You follow a chair?
• 2:33:48
  Yes. Thank you.
• 2:33:50
  Who was you mentioned? Somebody named Cole?
• 2:33:52
  Who was Nicole? What was your full name, Nicole?
• 2:34:00
  But Nicole was Chrissy sister. Yes.
• 2:34:07
  You said she was the med coordinator.
• 2:34:09
  Yes. What what was your understanding
• 2:34:11
  of what her job as the med coordinator is all so the kids
• 2:34:33
  listen in for doctor's appointments the doctor comes
• 2:34:36
  there. Like a doctor comes to somebody
• 2:34:41
  and usually they said for that. And the communication throughout
• 2:34:51
  the month for somebody. They get them. and then
• 2:34:59
  distribute them to the workers so they can add them to the
• 2:35:03
  events. And that's come in cars. and
• 2:35:09
  parts for Johnston So he has seven Reds.
• 2:35:13
  He takes the morning. Let me ask you who's responsible
• 2:35:17
  for making sure that the Mets from the pharmacy are delivered
• 2:35:21
  the way they're supposed to be. And who you said the only thing
• 2:35:27
  you did with respect to intake for Kelly Harris moving into
• 2:35:32
  something like black boys and her as that were in pills on the
• 2:35:36
  counter. Who did the rest of the intake?
• 2:35:44
  Because there were two people. with that intake process
• 2:35:58
  included what it included a reviewing any paperwork that
• 2:36:02
  came from the hospital from That Kelly came from.
• 2:36:07
  Yes, the point of intake was doing that and general
• 2:36:13
  information. And when, somebody's transferred
• 2:36:17
  from the hospital is the hospital.
• 2:36:18
  Normally send information about the prescriptions that they
• 2:36:21
  need. Yes, So the person who does
• 2:36:24
  that, even with the person that does the intake be responsible
• 2:36:27
  for reviewing that information? Yeah, he said that information
• 2:36:32
  was not provided to you. You just were told you just put
• 2:36:36
  the bottles that were on the counter injection to all leading
• 2:36:39
  questions. It's I have a judge.
• 2:36:49
  That's all I have here. We crossed.
• 2:36:53
  Oh, thank you. if I have a question,
• 2:37:20
  I want you to clearify clarify something that you testified too
• 2:37:24
  early. And if I'm wrong, in your
• 2:37:25
  testimony, please correct me. But my understanding your
• 2:37:28
  testimony was at least at the time that Is Harris was
• 2:37:35
  admitted. She didn't have the correct
• 2:37:39
  insulin. Is that correct?
• 2:37:42
  Correct. Verbally, I was told her, you
• 2:37:45
  know, through conversations. And then you later testified
• 2:37:57
  that you were told that the one she needed was in the
• 2:38:01
  refrigerator. Am I correct on that?
• 2:38:06
  I don't know when Kelly died. Christy got there, enjoying the
• 2:38:10
  fridge and pulled out box and then okay, as far as I know, as
• 2:38:16
  far as I know, that wasn't there.
• 2:38:18
  That we didn't keep the influencing.
• 2:38:20
  So as far as I know, there was no insulin for Kelly in that
• 2:38:25
  house. So the stuff that insulin that
• 2:38:30
  the defendant then showed you you don't know whether that was
• 2:38:33
  the correctly prescribed and show it to me or at least told
• 2:38:37
  you about right? I didn't know I had no idea,
• 2:38:40
  right? And then so when you're told
• 2:38:47
  that there's insulin you don't know whether that's the correct
• 2:38:50
  insulin. Right, I think honestly she was
• 2:38:58
  just looking at it. All right.
• 2:39:05
  Now I want to talk about the system that the records are put
• 2:39:10
  into. You would testify and again,
• 2:39:13
  correct me if I'm wrong that you can choose the date.
• 2:39:17
  Of the event that it's time stamped as to when it's actually
• 2:39:20
  entering. All right, so I could put
• 2:39:23
  something in saying that happened yesterday, but it's
• 2:39:26
  going to show that I actually entered it today.
• 2:39:29
  Right. So if you go back and look at
• 2:39:30
  the day that he wanted to all right when you want to be but he
• 2:39:39
  It was entered a different time and could anybody with access
• 2:39:43
  that system see that it was entered on a different day or
• 2:39:46
  did it take an administrator to be able to do that?
• 2:39:50
  I don't know. All right.
• 2:39:58
  I'm actually I may know I talked about this progress on
• 2:40:01
  medication. So is there a difference as far
• 2:40:05
  as how they're showing what people are able to do with
• 2:40:08
  Peter? Yeah, so if I say that I
• 2:40:11
  ministered. Aspirin yesterday, but I didn't
• 2:40:14
  put it in until today. Would it still show the same way
• 2:40:18
  as progress notes with that? it would feel the same but okay
• 2:40:30
  at that time anybody had access that because we're just right
• 2:40:37
  there. And she didn't have any extra
• 2:40:44
  access to anything. for this happened It was changed and then
• 2:40:48
  only Christina and I and I think Nicole had access to life more
• 2:40:53
  than just so when one went back and rebuilt the events from the
• 2:40:59
  day before or whenever one one back in the time and updated
• 2:41:03
  notes or medication administration.
• 2:41:05
  Are how that done by memory or are there paper notes to work
• 2:41:10
  from? remember, but okay this product
• 2:41:21
  so this probably what about medical medication
• 2:41:24
  administration? That wasn't ever done.
• 2:41:36
  All right. So you testified before that
• 2:41:39
  medication there was a barcode on the cards.
• 2:41:42
  And so when that barcode is scanned that automatically
• 2:41:47
  update the system. Yes, or if the medication
• 2:41:50
  doesn't help our code and click on the right Okay, if I get if
• 2:41:56
  the medication didn't have a barcode and I didn't update the
• 2:42:02
  system when I administered it, but I went back.
• 2:42:05
  Let's say administered it yesterday, but I imported today
• 2:42:09
  with that be working strictly from memory or would there have
• 2:42:12
  been some sort of paper log cabin for that?
• 2:42:17
  Do you understand the question? So the medications in the
• 2:42:21
  system. And that passed at least forgot
• 2:42:23
  to let's say a patient comes in and they have their own
• 2:42:26
  medication with them, but it's not on one of the barcodes cards
• 2:42:31
  and so I just administered the administration the medication
• 2:42:35
  pursuant whatever the instructions were on the bottle.
• 2:42:39
  If I understand your testimony correctly because it's not
• 2:42:42
  scanned. I would then or you would then
• 2:42:45
  have to go in and update the system of my correct on that.
• 2:42:49
  That you would Minister. I think that you don't
• 2:42:55
  understand the system. Okay, so explain to me like a
• 2:42:59
  kindergarten even if there's a there's still medications one of
• 2:43:04
  the residents still uses a different.
• 2:43:11
  Medications are entered into the system.
• 2:43:13
  So it's the same thing as the barcode except.
• 2:43:16
  It's on a computer is just clicking the map.
• 2:43:23
  Okay, and so when somebody administers the medication do
• 2:43:27
  they have the computer with them?
• 2:43:28
  Yes, all right, and so in theory then if they administer the
• 2:43:32
  medication. No matter whether it's the
• 2:43:34
  barcode or another way. They should be clicking on it
• 2:43:38
  was administrator. Yes.
• 2:43:39
  That's why Christy asked me to go over there.
• 2:43:43
  So that Val? Could and if for some reason
• 2:43:47
  it's not clicked as having been administered but then was
• 2:43:51
  backdated so to speak would that show in the system if you know
• 2:43:57
  would it show in the system that it was administered yesterday,
• 2:44:01
  but not updated as being done until today.
• 2:44:03
  Yeah, every time okay. then if I understood your
• 2:44:17
  testimony correctly again, if new medication is received from
• 2:44:22
  Pharmacy, that would be the updated by the med coordinators.
• 2:44:32
  Correct. Normally an LTC would send it to
• 2:44:39
  see. Okay, that's it.
• 2:44:53
  So, okay, so the med quarter court, so it's automatically
• 2:44:55
  done if it's coming from the in-house Pharmacy, right?
• 2:44:58
  But if it's an outside pharmacist the medical
• 2:45:01
  coordinator or the med coordinator then updates the
• 2:45:04
  system, right? All right, thank you counsel.
• 2:45:08
  Is that raising additional questions?
• 2:45:09
  No, you're right. I have one sure.
• 2:45:14
  Chairs, isn't it? Isn't it?
• 2:45:16
  Correct that the significance of the entering meds into the
• 2:45:20
  quickmar system. Is because there's an alert.
• 2:45:25
  That is issued if medications have not been.
• 2:45:29
  Minister according to the prescription right now red
• 2:45:41
  light, so no just A little icon turns red in the system.
• 2:45:45
  You have to be in the system Associated alert, right?
• 2:45:47
  So anybody any staff member that can administer medications would
• 2:45:51
  say the word? Yes see the alert and that's the
• 2:45:53
  significance of why it's really important to get all the
• 2:45:56
  medications in so that if they're missed there's a
• 2:45:59
  failsafe. There's an alert that tells you.
• 2:46:01
  Oh, I've got to give Mrs. This is William Sherman's So for each
• 2:46:07
  house, yes, okay, so that answered my question.
• 2:46:09
  Thank you. And I'm here.
• 2:46:12
  All right. Any objection to me looking at
• 2:46:16
  the text messages before it dismissed.
• 2:46:32
  All right, we'll judge a scanning stuff.
• 2:46:35
  This is TCF live on a Wednesday where we're in the middle of a
• 2:46:39
  preliminary exam or examination examination stumbled into this
• 2:46:44
  fairly early again, if you're just joining, the defendant is
• 2:46:48
  charged with involuntary manslaughter.
• 2:46:50
  She was the administrator of an adult foster care home that
• 2:46:54
  housed 40 people and somebody died because they did not get
• 2:46:57
  their insulin. So that's what's going on right
• 2:47:00
  now. If you're new out there, feel
• 2:47:02
  free to say hi in the chat. We're a friendly folk here.
• 2:47:05
  Love to have you chat with us. Can you decipher for me?
• 2:47:52
  Last message on this page from the November 22nd.
• 2:47:58
  This is yeah. Eight comma.
• 2:48:01
  Two comma eight. That is the last one.
• 2:48:05
  Most are eight slash eight. So that means something like
• 2:48:08
  medication at 8, a.m. 2 p.m. and 8 a.m. and it's just 8 minutes.
• 2:48:19
  And I realized that that's coming from the defendant but
• 2:48:25
  were those because you testified that you get the medical records
• 2:48:29
  from the bottles, right? So with that, with those times
• 2:48:33
  have been indicated on the bottles.
• 2:48:35
  Yeah. So my location today.
• 2:48:41
  And in front of our space correctly, so the time to use it
• 2:48:47
  when they okay, so that's the the home setting that schedule.
• 2:48:53
  Not that not the doc. Yes, the home sets the times.
• 2:48:57
  Okay. All right.
• 2:48:58
  Thank you. Thanks.
• 2:49:00
  Okay. Thank you.
• 2:49:01
  Any additional questions. No.
• 2:49:04
  This one is be excused. Yes temporary permanent.
• 2:49:10
  She free to go about her day then she is.
• 2:49:12
  All right. Thank you, ma'am.
• 2:49:16
  Your next Witness? And before you see it, if you
• 2:50:06
  raise your right hand, you solemnly swear or firm, the
• 2:50:09
  testimony you giving this matter will be the truth.
• 2:50:10
  The whole truth and nothing, but the truth and Steve.
• 2:50:15
  Whenever you're ready. Thank you.
• 2:50:16
  Good morning, ma'am. Will you please State and spell
• 2:50:19
  your name? Valerie, Glenn, Dunning b, a l e
• 2:50:23
  r i e g. L e, n d.
• 2:50:27
  You might investors Valerie. Thank you.
• 2:50:33
  Very I'm currently employed. Yes.
• 2:50:43
  Where are you? Where are you right now?
• 2:50:45
  So, purpose from Healthcare. And were you previously employed
• 2:50:50
  at Pleasant Lake Lodge? Yes.
• 2:50:52
  Do you recall the dates that you worked at bustling Lodge?
• 2:50:55
  I believe I started in 2021. In July.
• 2:51:05
  So you were there from July 21st?
• 2:51:08
  Okay, thanks. When you were working at
• 2:51:15
  Pleasant Lake Lodge, and I want to draw your attention to the
• 2:51:18
  time frame of the beginning of November of 2022.
• 2:51:23
  You recall a resident named Kelly Harris?
• 2:51:26
  Yes. And at the time that Kelly
• 2:51:31
  Harris was a resident. What were your what was your job
• 2:51:34
  at that time? jobs
• 2:51:52
  Okay. and with respect to Kelly Harris well, let me back up.
• 2:52:04
  Let's talk about how you passed that can you please walk the
• 2:52:08
  court through that process if you're if you're going to pass
• 2:52:11
  meds to a resting. That process from beginning to
• 2:52:16
  actually so say they take my medication at 8 a.m.
• 2:52:21
  I would. Go to her and find her then and
• 2:52:37
  go to her idiom. That's some stamina. so, the
• 2:52:46
  It's called Quick Mart. You know what?
• 2:52:48
  Mars stands for m, a r. I don't.
• 2:52:50
  Okay. Is the quick Marsh supposed to
• 2:52:56
  list all of the medications that a resident is supposed to
• 2:52:59
  receive. Yes.
• 2:53:01
  So that that's how, you know what they're supposed to get is
• 2:53:04
  that correct? Since scan them, and you
• 2:53:12
  described. And then you go ahead and
• 2:53:30
  actually get the first person the medication right and you
• 2:53:32
  make sure they take it. Yeah.
• 2:53:33
  Okay, scanning it is the way that the computer knows that the
• 2:53:40
  medication was giving correct. What is the what if it's not?
• 2:53:45
  One of the medication is in a blister pack with a barcode.
• 2:53:49
  Um, then you would just kind of revert back to the five hours
• 2:53:53
  the right person right route right dose. medication And right
• 2:54:02
  time just Mash that up to what was what's in the system to make
• 2:54:07
  sure that all of that is. So the quick Marvel still
• 2:54:11
  indicate that the person is supposed to receive that
• 2:54:14
  medication. Yes, but it just doesn't have a
• 2:54:17
  barcode that will automatically documented as a minister.
• 2:54:20
  Yeah. Okay.
• 2:54:23
  So how do you document? It was administered in that
• 2:54:25
  situation. You can just use your mouse to
• 2:54:28
  click on the Square the medication is listed on so
• 2:54:33
  basically manually enter that information computer.
• 2:54:38
  Guys, yes, okay. So we involved with passing
• 2:54:48
  mystery Harris while she was a resident of clothes.
• 2:54:50
  Yes. when you want to Quick Mart at any time while you were
• 2:54:56
  passing that is to Miss Harris the Quick Mart indicate that she
• 2:55:01
  was supposed to receive insulin. No, not that I recall.
• 2:55:10
  Did you were you aware that she was diabetic?
• 2:55:13
  It was the day. She was good.
• 2:55:15
  Did she make a comment to you about her blood sugar being high
• 2:55:19
  at some point? Yes, but they should have been
• 2:55:22
  and what did you do after she told you that?
• 2:55:25
  I didn't have the insulin. So I went and found my manager
• 2:55:29
  Amber and asked her to come and talk to her and she advised her
• 2:55:33
  to help her sugar. So Amber didn't say anything
• 2:55:39
  about giving Kelly his wife know.
• 2:55:43
  And you weren't aware of their being any celebrity give Kelly
• 2:55:46
  in the building. Right, correct.
• 2:55:52
  One of one a new resident came in who would normally do the
• 2:55:57
  intake process Christie. And are you referring to the
• 2:56:00
  feminine who's sitting at tables?
• 2:56:02
  What are the intake process involved from your
• 2:56:06
  understanding? information about the restroom
• 2:56:23
  Process. Okay.
• 2:56:24
  So what was inputting that part of the intake process?
• 2:56:27
  Yes. And if the person, so the
• 2:56:30
  person, if the person who is doing the intake knew that the
• 2:56:34
  resident was supposed to receive a certain medications, should
• 2:56:37
  they put those medications in that quickfire system?
• 2:56:39
  Yes. What about care that needed to
• 2:56:45
  be to be given to the residents such as checking blood sugar?
• 2:56:49
  Is that something that would also need to go in the system
• 2:56:51
  and intake? Yes.
• 2:56:54
  Were there any orders in the system to check Kelly Harris's
• 2:56:59
  blood sugar or ask her about her blood sugar?
• 2:57:06
  So as a caregiver based on the fact that that information was
• 2:57:10
  not in the system where you were responsible for for doing that.
• 2:57:14
  No. your job was to provide a treatment and, and For
• 2:57:22
  administering, the meds that were in the system is that
• 2:57:24
  right? Were you aware at any time?
• 2:57:28
  Won't Kelly here. Is was a resident at Pleasant
• 2:57:31
  Lake of their being any insulin in the building or on site to
• 2:57:36
  give her? Yes, I know that she came with
• 2:57:40
  insulin. Quick pause because Lindsay
• 2:57:45
  asked drink water to bring down blood sugar.
• 2:57:48
  Is that a thing? According to google not really
• 2:57:52
  drinking water does not directly cure or immediately slash high
• 2:57:56
  blood sugar, but it helps manage it by replenishing fluids lost
• 2:57:59
  during frequent urination. Proper hydration helps kidneys
• 2:58:03
  flush out excess glucose from prevents blood sugar from
• 2:58:06
  becoming more concentrated which occurs during dehydration.
• 2:58:10
  Now we do know. That she had been in the
• 2:58:14
  hospital prior to this and unexplainably the hospital
• 2:58:20
  discharge or even though she hadn't urinated in 48 hours.
• 2:58:24
  As possible. She was dehydrated that could be
• 2:58:26
  part of this but is water a direct cure appears.
• 2:58:29
  Not anyways, let's continue. Well, how did you know that?
• 2:58:36
  when she had asked me to look over.
• 2:58:57
  Okay, so it was your understanding that even though
• 2:58:59
  she had some insulin, it was not insulin, that was prescribed to
• 2:59:02
  her correct. And the insulin that was
• 2:59:04
  prescribed to her, was that available?
• 2:59:06
  Was that in the building at any time?
• 2:59:19
  Normally are there other residents at Pleasant Lake Lodge
• 2:59:23
  who are diabetic? Yes.
• 2:59:24
  Does the system normally for those residents the system
• 2:59:29
  normally flag you, if you will to ask to check their blood
• 2:59:35
  sugar. Yes.
• 2:59:35
  Does it normally flag you to administer insulin
• 2:59:38
  appropriately? Yes,
• 2:59:50
  Which days. You recall, the how many days in
• 2:59:57
  the Terrace was a resident in a pleasant?
• 2:59:58
  I believe four and how many times did you actually care for
• 3:00:02
  her while she was very important.
• 3:00:04
  I was there the first day I remember the very last year.
• 3:00:11
  What do you call about your interaction with their on the
• 3:00:14
  last day the last day I came? In sick laying in bed.
• 3:00:20
  I don't want to get up. I've been throwing up the night
• 3:00:24
  previously. I have asked her how she was
• 3:00:30
  feeling such good feel good. She didn't want to get up to
• 3:00:32
  eat. So I brought her toast for
• 3:00:34
  breakfast and ensure I think for lunch.
• 3:00:38
  And as well as her medications. She was supposed to take those.
• 3:00:44
  And then at dinner time before I loved.
• 3:00:49
  Sometimes between dinner and ATM when I had checked on her again,
• 3:00:54
  she actually sat up inside of and said that she has a feeling
• 3:00:57
  better. You talk to anyone else about
• 3:01:01
  her not feeling well. Yes, who did you?
• 3:01:07
  Tell her if you recall. I don't recall what you did talk
• 3:01:13
  to her about her just not feeling well, okay.
• 3:01:21
  When you is it okay to enter a medication into the system.
• 3:01:27
  As having been administered. Later on.
• 3:01:32
  As long as the medication was, in fact.
• 3:01:35
  Given at the time, you're indicating that question makes
• 3:01:38
  sense. Yes.
• 3:01:39
  Is that it's okay to do that? Yes, one is the medication was
• 3:01:44
  actually So if I give him medication on Tuesday and on
• 3:01:51
  Thursday, I'm going back to give the same resident medications
• 3:01:54
  and then I so then I go oops I realized I didn't put it into
• 3:01:58
  the system on Tuesday and you do it then, is that acceptable?
• 3:02:03
  Yes again, as long as it actually happened on track, What
• 3:02:08
  if what if you were supposed to even medication on Tuesday?
• 3:02:10
  But didn't is it okay to go back in later and put in the system
• 3:02:17
  that the medication was doing, it was not getting no.
• 3:02:42
  approach the witness returned he might have you I'm going to show
• 3:02:52
  the Is people's exhibit to your honor?
• 3:02:56
  I have a copy here for the Courts Reference.
• 3:03:00
  Thank you. And this is admitted by
• 3:03:02
  stipulation. Correct?
• 3:03:03
  Yes. I'm going to show you a page.
• 3:03:08
  here that's it's not it's not numbered but
• 3:03:24
  it's the first tap page Council and your honor.
• 3:03:31
  You recognize. That information the format.
• 3:03:36
  What where is that? Where does that information come
• 3:03:41
  from? it comes from okay.
• 3:03:48
  And what what is the what's being documented here on this
• 3:03:51
  page of Quick Mart? When it's showing.
• 3:03:57
  Ellie receiving. Different medications at
• 3:04:02
  different kinds of different dates.
• 3:04:04
  I want to direct your attention to.
• 3:04:05
  So the first the Top Line there, it says to November 2022, 636
• 3:04:12
  PM. What indication what medication
• 3:04:15
  does? It indicate was administered at
• 3:04:17
  that time. Is it 6:36 or 8:36?
• 3:04:23
  I'm sorry that 836 catron. Thank you.
• 3:04:27
  Okay. So what medication was
• 3:04:29
  administered at that day, any time, according to the quick
• 3:04:31
  mark lanta's, informed, okay? And on the far right?
• 3:04:37
  Column there's two capital letter age, what are those?
• 3:04:41
  That would be you. Okay, you know, it was Angela
• 3:04:54
  Adams. Okay so is this is this
• 3:04:59
  information from the Quick Mart, indicating that Angela Adams
• 3:05:02
  gave Lance's insulin to Kelly Harris at that date and time.
• 3:05:06
  Yes, Okay, the next line down November 3 November 2022 7:30
• 3:05:15
  p.m. What medication does it indicate
• 3:05:18
  was administered to Kelly Harrison at that time.
• 3:05:20
  We just as one. And who does whose initials are
• 3:05:25
  at the end of that line? And so that does that mean that?
• 3:05:30
  According to the quick mark Christopher Lara of gave Lance's
• 3:05:34
  to Kelly Harris with that anytime.
• 3:05:36
  Yeah. Okay, and then I'm going to skip
• 3:05:42
  down to the fourth line. Where says four November 8 p.m.
• 3:05:47
  What is the quick burning Cape happen at that?
• 3:05:58
  And what are the initials at the end?
• 3:06:00
  And those are your initials today?
• 3:06:04
  Anybody else was the facility have those initials?
• 3:06:09
  Did you in fact the Atlantis insulin to Kelly at that date
• 3:06:12
  and time? Why not?
• 3:06:14
  Was it in the system to give it to her at that time?
• 3:06:21
  So if you want to in the system on November 4th.
• 3:06:27
  ATM and looked at a quick mark to determine what medications
• 3:06:33
  Kelly needed there was nothing in quickmire at that actual
• 3:06:38
  time. indicating that Kelly needed Lance's insulin know did
• 3:06:46
  you give anyone else permission to put that information in the
• 3:06:49
  footwork system? Do you know how it got there?
• 3:07:09
  No, I'm thinking. This is the last page of the
• 3:07:16
  doctor of the document it showed you also tagged.
• 3:07:20
  I'm going to show you this. Do you recognize that document?
• 3:07:25
  Can you explain what that is? Yes. so I'm gonna I'm gonna draw
• 3:07:37
  your attention to The very last line there.
• 3:07:46
  Very bottom line on that page. Please read that out loud and
• 3:07:50
  explain to the court what it means The insulin 100 units.
• 3:07:59
  I started by Christina. Flip flusher, 2022 and 54.
• 3:08:05
  Mm. And that's is that the same date
• 3:08:17
  in time. That was indicated on the other
• 3:08:18
  page that used to supposedly gave her that no Well, November
• 3:08:24
  4th, yes, okay. So what is scheduled for
• 3:08:28
  November? That's the mean it was supposed
• 3:08:31
  to be giving at that time. But as you read, it says,
• 3:08:35
  inserted by Christie Fletcher on Southern November 1054 a.m.
• 3:08:40
  So, does that mean that I'm November 7th?
• 3:08:44
  The defendant went back into the record and indicated that
• 3:08:51
  Atlantis insulin was given to Kelly on November 4th at 8 p.m.
• 3:08:55
  Yes. It did you tell you she was
• 3:08:58
  going to do that. Did you give her permission to
• 3:09:00
  do that? Did that did that actually
• 3:09:02
  happen? Bomb turns up.
• 3:09:06
  Did you again you didn't actually give her that
• 3:09:08
  medication? Okay, but this document
• 3:09:12
  indicates that information into the record.
• 3:09:17
  I don't remember seven. That's all the questions I have.
• 3:10:03
  Could someone Miss Glendale my name?
• 3:10:07
  Is Jerry Faber. I'm Christie attorney.
• 3:10:09
  Do you recall What men's were in Kelly's?
• 3:10:17
  And in the quickmar system for her, I do not.
• 3:10:21
  Remember specifically in a medication that you did
• 3:10:23
  administered to her. he just are not numbered your
• 3:10:39
  honor but in people's exhibit two,
• 3:11:00
  Out of the way down. There's what is titled a
• 3:11:04
  medication list? Three pages.
• 3:11:26
  You know, they're just record. They just look like this.
• 3:11:30
  Again, it's about a third of the way down people's exhibit to I
• 3:11:36
  apologize, which Console is what you refer to.
• 3:12:01
  So yeah. All right.
• 3:12:15
  Would you have access to that as part of your job duties?
• 3:12:19
  Yes. Would you actually look at?
• 3:12:23
  Administer medications to a resident.
• 3:12:28
  Oh. Like you're passing your work in
• 3:12:33
  the floor. It's time to give somebody
• 3:12:36
  medication. What are you what are you
• 3:12:39
  physically looking at to make that determination?
• 3:12:42
  Well, there's time slots in the bookmarks system that we're able
• 3:12:46
  to go to. Canada is that a computer screen
• 3:12:50
  somewhere? Yes.
• 3:12:51
  It's a computer system. And where is that physically
• 3:12:54
  located in the dining room? Dining room.
• 3:12:57
  Yes. and other than that girl constantly going to or passing
• 3:13:04
  by. Okay.
• 3:13:06
  All right, as you look at those three pages do you recall and if
• 3:13:11
  you personally administered any of those medications?
• 3:13:18
  but I'm the medications you administered you administer
• 3:13:32
  them. Are they informed?
• 3:13:36
  Yes so early. Yes.
• 3:13:38
  Did you do any injections? Um, yes, what type of injections
• 3:13:44
  do you do insulin injections? That's for you.
• 3:13:50
  It's your testimony. You didn't give Miss Harris any.
• 3:13:54
  You know if I did not but other diabetic resonance, yes.
• 3:13:59
  Do you have any medical training or degree?
• 3:14:02
  No? People that are diabetic they
• 3:14:07
  learn to self administer the injections, correct?
• 3:14:11
  Yes. So you're just assisting them
• 3:14:13
  with that process. Yes, some of your diabetic
• 3:14:15
  patients self-inject. know they all require you to stop member
• 3:14:21
  to do it. Yes. if you recall if your other
• 3:14:28
  diabetic patients wore a an adhesive monitoring device on
• 3:14:34
  their person. Yes.
• 3:14:38
  All of the diabetic patients are residents know I would say most
• 3:14:44
  don't. so for the ones that don't what do you do or what
• 3:14:51
  does a caregiver do? to check blood sugar levels
• 3:14:57
  blood sugar monitors the way in the son tells us to check their
• 3:15:07
  glucose we Glucose monitors out of the medicine cabinet and
• 3:15:12
  check their glucose for them. How do you do that?
• 3:15:16
  The fingerprint or something. Yeah fingertip. you recall if
• 3:15:25
  Miss Harris had a monitoring device.
• 3:15:28
  Yes. and you know, what type of was I don't know specifically.
• 3:15:35
  It was a piece of It so she was self-monitoring her blood sugar
• 3:15:42
  cracked. She never talked to you about
• 3:15:45
  her blood sugars being high. Yeah, do you recall what the
• 3:15:52
  what the reading was? And it was around 4000.
• 3:15:59
  And what were you looking at to see that number first cell
• 3:16:02
  phone? And is it is the way that her
• 3:16:08
  device works as she holds her cell phone near the sensor
• 3:16:11
  that's attached to her body. I can't remember how it works.
• 3:16:15
  And what did you do? Is that when you went to?
• 3:16:21
  Amber Harris with that concern. Yes, and response was to give
• 3:16:25
  her some water. Yes.
• 3:16:30
  Testify that you were aware that there was insulin medication.
• 3:16:36
  Physically on on site from day one, correct?
• 3:16:41
  Yes. And you described it as the
• 3:16:45
  wrong medication, but would it surprise you that she actually
• 3:16:50
  had two prescriptions? one for a stabilizing
• 3:16:55
  long-lasting like a baseline type Lantus and then a quick
• 3:17:02
  acting one called aspart. That would be administered to
• 3:17:06
  slide in fluctuation say after meals.
• 3:17:11
  Okay. Okay.
• 3:17:12
  Does that sound consistent at least that scheme with other
• 3:17:17
  diabetic patients? Yes.
• 3:17:21
  At no point. Did you notice Miss during the
• 3:17:25
  two days that you were to evenings that you were in her
• 3:17:28
  presence? It's correct that you never saw
• 3:17:33
  her in in distress. She was sick the last day that I
• 3:17:38
  was with her in the morning. The whole day and was actually
• 3:17:47
  talking more with me, but she was sick.
• 3:17:50
  Okay, so she was improving. Yes as Friday.
• 3:17:53
  This is Friday the 4th. Is that they went on she was
• 3:17:57
  improved? Yes, and there was a bug going
• 3:18:00
  around the facility around that time.
• 3:18:02
  She was not correct. Your testimony that you informed
• 3:18:09
  Christy about her not feeling well.
• 3:18:12
  Yes. You do that in person via text.
• 3:18:18
  Her boxer boxer boxers communication that we use like
• 3:18:24
  specifically for work. It's an app that we used to
• 3:18:27
  communicate with each other over the phone.
• 3:18:29
  Yes, like like instant messenger or something like that.
• 3:18:32
  Yes. and Or do those messages still exist.
• 3:18:39
  Are they still on your phone? I don't have them.
• 3:18:43
  But I know if you have Boxer pro at saves, okay, they're not
• 3:18:47
  bucks are probably saves messages longer.
• 3:18:51
  You don't do it. Delete them.
• 3:18:53
  They would still be on your phone if they're capable of
• 3:18:55
  being retrieved, right? Correct.
• 3:18:58
  You still have the same phone that you had when you were
• 3:19:00
  working there? Yes. your employment there ended
• 3:19:06
  in October of last year So three you stayed there three years
• 3:19:16
  after. This incident that we're here in
• 3:19:21
  Port for yes. What would you know the reason
• 3:19:24
  for your departure from that job?
• 3:19:41
  At no point during your time with Ms. Harris.
• 3:19:47
  You ever see her in a stupor or unconscious know?
• 3:19:53
  There's always alert and communicating.
• 3:19:54
  Yes. Even when she said she wasn't
• 3:19:57
  feeling well, yes. Testified that you you
• 3:20:05
  physically looked at a med sheet.
• 3:20:07
  On November 1st the day of Kelly's admission.
• 3:20:10
  Yes, and where was somebody provide that to you or where did
• 3:20:15
  you see that that she um Christy have handed?
• 3:20:19
  to me there was medications on the Sheep that she didn't come
• 3:20:37
  with medications that she came with the work on she and
• 3:20:40
  specifically the one that she has brought with her didn't
• 3:20:44
  appear to match the ones that were on that shape.
• 3:20:48
  But you know the name of those, you know.
• 3:20:51
  And was this anime this was an in-person conversation with
• 3:20:54
  Christy correct at the South house?
• 3:20:57
  Yes. And was you know, the Amber was
• 3:21:01
  there. Maybe living on her side.
• 3:21:10
  But not present and the south location.
• 3:21:14
  When you were physically looking at the med sheet, where did it
• 3:21:17
  go afterwards? Are they stored somewhere?
• 3:21:21
  I don't know. And when you looked at the men
• 3:21:26
  she did you also look at quick Marty if medications have been
• 3:21:30
  entered into the system. You don't know what they were in
• 3:21:35
  in the system then or not or which ones were I know they were
• 3:21:38
  in the system yet? They were not in the system.
• 3:21:41
  How do you know that? Because when I went to pass
• 3:21:45
  medications later on in the day, they had not been input into the
• 3:21:48
  system yet. Later on that day the first yes.
• 3:21:55
  How are they typically entered into the quickest system?
• 3:22:00
  specifically manually I whoever is putting them in to the system
• 3:22:05
  in the intake. Is it also true that the
• 3:22:10
  pharmacy LPC can also? A remotely enter into the
• 3:22:16
  system. Yes.
• 3:22:17
  Is that common? Yes, okay.
• 3:22:24
  Do you was part of your duties to enter medications into
• 3:22:28
  quickmark? Not for the intake or any point.
• 3:22:35
  sometimes when it was at a was that a procedure that you were
• 3:22:42
  taught. Oh, yes and what when you're
• 3:22:46
  entering medications into quickmar Are you looking at the
• 3:22:53
  med sheet when you're doing that you're looking at the medication
• 3:22:56
  that's sitting in front of you and then just making sure but it
• 3:23:01
  isn't that the they're supposed to have how do you do that?
• 3:23:06
  She yeah. You want to be you want to be
• 3:23:14
  precise with medications? Make sure that it's right
• 3:23:17
  medication there. You last Saw Christie?
• 3:23:35
  I saw Kelly Harris. Friday evening sometime around 8
• 3:23:42
  p.m. Indicated to you that she was
• 3:23:47
  feeling better. She was sitting up.
• 3:23:48
  Yeah. She had been sitting. up you you
• 3:23:54
  recall if she was a smoker? Are their residents that do
• 3:23:59
  smoke? Yes, we're allowed to smoke.
• 3:24:02
  Yes. Where do they smoke?
• 3:24:13
  something that's a way from the house, but they have to go smoke
• 3:24:17
  under. you Kelly Harris was a smoker.
• 3:24:22
  She's smoked know. What about drinks alcohol?
• 3:24:28
  Residence today they have access to alcohol.
• 3:24:31
  Yeah. Should we should Commissioners
• 3:24:37
  not kept up to your knowledge there would be it wouldn't be
• 3:24:41
  proper to have alcohol stored in the facility, correct?
• 3:24:47
  Is that just a they're adults right?
• 3:24:50
  So is that just a resident like a policy part of the procedure
• 3:24:56
  for? For residents that live there
• 3:24:58
  that they're not allowed to consume alcohol.
• 3:25:01
  I'm not sure I would say yes, probably.
• 3:25:13
  Thank you. Redirect know you're under thank
• 3:25:16
  you. I have a couple questions for
• 3:25:19
  you. clarify a few things You had testified earlier as to how
• 3:25:30
  the quick and system or Quick Mart system works and you had
• 3:25:35
  indicated that. Some items are scanned and are
• 3:25:41
  they scans when they are actually administered or they
• 3:25:45
  scan when they're taking out of the bin.
• 3:25:47
  Let me rephrase that question. so when it's time to administer
• 3:25:53
  medications are everybody's medications that are to be
• 3:25:58
  administered at that time put on like a cart and wheeled around a
• 3:26:01
  different rooms, or is it John Smith needs his so I go to the
• 3:26:05
  cabinet to get his administer like that.
• 3:26:09
  That's the medicine Plaza and they each have their own.
• 3:26:15
  Medications there were separate them for prms, which are just as
• 3:26:20
  needed medications. So if I have like three people
• 3:26:23
  that need medication to 8:00 in the morning.
• 3:26:26
  Pull all three or do you pull one to a time in administer one
• 3:26:29
  at a time? All right, and then is it a
• 3:26:32
  computer that goes around room to room with you to administer
• 3:26:36
  or do you pull the bins scan it and that dining room computer
• 3:26:41
  and then go ahead minister. Rescan and the dining rooms and
• 3:26:49
  get them into the dining room. Okay, so is that scan when it's
• 3:26:55
  let's say you've got somebody in the room that's not coming to
• 3:26:58
  the day. is that scanned when it's pulled out of the bin and
• 3:27:04
  then you go and Administrate. Yes, you would scan it pop it
• 3:27:09
  and then if to take them take it back to their room like Kelly
• 3:27:14
  with her medications, I would put her bin back lots of medical
• 3:27:17
  closet back up and then take the medications to her in her
• 3:27:20
  bedroom. Now the med sheet that you
• 3:27:29
  talked about the you compared against the medication.
• 3:27:34
  You know where that that she came from.
• 3:27:36
  I know you said you got you received it from the defendant
• 3:27:38
  that you know where that actually came from.
• 3:27:40
  I did not. You still have that exhibit
• 3:27:57
  number two in front of you you don't.
• 3:28:05
  How do we know we're number two one?
• 3:28:06
  Yes, I have. Yeah, if you would please I want
• 3:28:11
  to draw your attention to that first half that we talked about
• 3:28:14
  their earlier. And under the November 4th. 22
• 3:28:21
  entry at 8 p.m. Those are your initials VG,
• 3:28:24
  correct? Correct beside that.
• 3:28:26
  There's a note that says still very sick sugar 314 didn't you
• 3:28:32
  know, did you input that? No?
• 3:28:34
  Yeah, you did not. And how do you remember that you
• 3:28:41
  did not? Because the land is not in the
• 3:28:45
  system. So attached out so that note is
• 3:28:52
  specifically listed for that medication distribution,
• 3:28:56
  correct? All right.
• 3:29:02
  And there was some questions about the med list and quick
• 3:29:05
  Mark when you administer medications, do you actually
• 3:29:09
  administer from the medication list, or do you administer from
• 3:29:12
  Quick harm? So quickmar says administer x y
• 3:29:16
  z medication passenger going with your not going from medical
• 3:29:19
  list. So when you went to administer
• 3:29:51
  medication on the first her first day in the hole you stated
• 3:29:56
  that medications weren't in quick mark, correct?
• 3:30:01
  What did you do? I remember if I told Amber
• 3:30:08
  Harris or Christy, but the medication for me to record but
• 3:30:13
  I let one of them know so that somebody could input the
• 3:30:17
  medication's. medications administer and I don't remember
• 3:30:26
  a time. Okay, so because it wasn't in
• 3:30:29
  the system you didn't administer medication.
• 3:30:31
  You should new medication need to be Minister, but you didn't
• 3:30:35
  investor because it wasn't in the system, correct?
• 3:30:38
  All right. a consulate questions did after it was put into the
• 3:30:45
  system to administrate that yes. It's a favor. and So is your
• 3:31:00
  testimony? discovered discrepancy that the
• 3:31:04
  Lantus vacation that was physically on the premises was
• 3:31:09
  not entered into QuickBooks. So that this characterizes their
• 3:31:14
  testimony. I mean, I know it's
• 3:31:15
  cross-examination I guess but she never specified any
• 3:31:19
  particular type of the kids. The insulin that you physically
• 3:31:26
  observed on the premises. Is it your testimony that you
• 3:31:31
  told you don't recall if you told Amber or Christy, but you
• 3:31:34
  told one of them that it needs to get entered into the into the
• 3:31:38
  system. Then your customer.
• 3:31:39
  Hey told one of them that their medications needed to be entered
• 3:31:44
  into the system which medications was out of school.
• 3:31:50
  But you don't recall which one of those two people.
• 3:31:54
  And are you positive that it was that Kelly Harris had a phone
• 3:32:01
  that she used to to see her blood sugar levels?
• 3:32:06
  Yes. It wasn't a blue kilometer like
• 3:32:09
  a primary device it was That's okay.
• 3:32:18
  He sounds Just to clarify something you said there was you
• 3:32:23
  know, there was some insulin but it didn't actually insulin that
• 3:32:26
  was on the medication list, is that correct?
• 3:32:30
  That's all I have. This regarding taking meds from
• 3:32:51
  quickmar for one patient. That's something that you do
• 3:32:56
  that one at a time. out of the closet go go to that residence
• 3:33:06
  room administer the medication. and then come back and do that
• 3:33:12
  repeatedly individually or would you take everybody that's
• 3:33:15
  scheduled for 8 a.m. But generally they're all
• 3:33:22
  setting in the dining room. I was pretty it was an option
• 3:33:25
  that we needed to take it to their bedrooms.
• 3:33:29
  Unless they were settled with Kelly Harris.
• 3:33:31
  Okay, they would they would go into the dining room and just
• 3:33:33
  wait there. Yeah.
• 3:33:35
  All right, and you were physically You observe them
• 3:33:37
  taking their medication if it's a pill or yes. track All right.
• 3:33:46
  This one is the excuse. Yes.
• 3:33:47
  You may step down. You're free to go about your
• 3:33:50
  day. Thank you.
• 3:33:52
  Counsel. I know we're almost 12:30.
• 3:33:54
  My docket goes I start the afternoon at 1:30.
• 3:33:58
  I'm okay keeping going forward if you are, but I'll leave that
• 3:34:01
  up to you as to how you want to see I prefer to just proceed
• 3:34:05
  your all right. next Witness for the next witness to come in TCF
• 3:34:23
  live good to have you all here. We generally don't get stuck in
• 3:34:28
  one hearing for most of the day, but that's where we are.
• 3:34:31
  And I think it's been valuable. It's it's a heartbreaking
• 3:34:33
  situation for sure. But I think this is been a good
• 3:34:37
  hearing to watch it's been educational on many fronts.
• 3:34:39
  I will go along today if need be to To finish this thing off.
• 3:34:47
  I don't think it's going to go crazy long, but it wouldn't
• 3:34:49
  surprise me. If it goes 30 minutes to an hour
• 3:34:52
  longer. I guess you're gonna come up
• 3:34:53
  between these half walls and eventually make your way up to
• 3:34:55
  his chair beside me. But anyways, I'll stick with it.
• 3:34:59
  Let's let's continue. He solemnly swear or affirm the
• 3:35:05
  testimony given this matter will be the truth.
• 3:35:07
  The whole truth and nothing, but the truth.
• 3:35:08
  Yes, you may have seen. Whenever you're ready, thank
• 3:35:13
  you. Good afternoon.
• 3:35:16
  Ma'am. Will you please State and spell
• 3:35:18
  your name? Allison, Shelton a l.
• 3:35:21
  L y s, c h. Okay, if I call you Allison,
• 3:35:28
  yes. Allison.
• 3:35:30
  Are you are you presently work right now?
• 3:35:35
  Cadillac Family. Pharmacy.
• 3:35:38
  And did you previously work at Pleasant Lake?
• 3:35:41
  Lodge and Cadillac? Yeah.
• 3:35:42
  When did you work there from September?
• 3:35:51
  So about three to four months. What was your job that was like,
• 3:35:56
  watch I was a direct care worker.
• 3:35:58
  Had you done that type of work before.
• 3:36:01
  Yes, I got her about 10 years. What is being a direct care?
• 3:36:07
  Worker, what is that? What is that involved?
• 3:36:09
  So that would be like Be doing medications.
• 3:36:17
  And feeding the residents and just doing all of their daily
• 3:36:21
  care. Okay.
• 3:36:24
  So, how do you how do you can you when you were working at
• 3:36:27
  Pleasant Lake Lodge? Do you recall a resident named
• 3:36:30
  Kelly Harris? Yes.
• 3:36:34
  You recall about when she was there?
• 3:36:38
  it was I don't know the exact date, but it was towards the
• 3:36:42
  ending there. Okay?
• 3:36:48
  But you just provide care to Miss Harris while she was there.
• 3:36:51
  Yes. When you when you did you was
• 3:36:58
  your job to? Administer medications to Miss
• 3:37:01
  Harris. Yeah, when you administer
• 3:37:04
  medications to a resident, can you please describe that process
• 3:37:07
  from beginning to end? Yeah, so you sign up to the
• 3:37:10
  computer and then there's like the bed closet where everyone's
• 3:37:16
  meds are and then you click on like the time of day that it is
• 3:37:22
  and then it shows you the residents and what medications
• 3:37:26
  Okay, is that the quickmar system?
• 3:37:29
  Yes, you know what Mars stands for?
• 3:37:34
  The medication administration record.
• 3:37:36
  Yes, okay. so for while you were taking care of Kelly Harris and
• 3:37:47
  you were giving her medications. So you go into the Quick Mart at
• 3:37:53
  any time while you while she was there and you were passing meds
• 3:37:57
  to her the Quick Mart system indicate that she was supposed
• 3:38:01
  to receive any type of insulin. And the quickest of indicate
• 3:38:07
  that you were supposed to check your blood sugar or ask her
• 3:38:09
  about her blood sugar know we aware that she was diabetic.
• 3:38:13
  Yeah. Were you were you aware that
• 3:38:23
  Miss Harris passed away while she was a Resident Evil puzzling
• 3:38:26
  lunch? Yes.
• 3:38:28
  How did you become aware that? well at the time I was there
• 3:38:41
  every single day and so I guess when I noticed that there was a
• 3:38:48
  bunch of people over at the other house.
• 3:38:49
  I went over and talked to the workers.
• 3:38:52
  And that's all. Okay, so we were living staff at
• 3:38:55
  the North house. Yeah.
• 3:38:57
  Okay, and basically you was there an ambulance or police or
• 3:39:03
  People that weren't normally there.
• 3:39:05
  Is that what happened? Yeah.
• 3:39:06
  Okay, and then you you went to the South house.
• 3:39:09
  And do you recall who told you that she had passed away?
• 3:39:16
  Okay. Do you?
• 3:39:20
  Who was the administrator of Pleasant Lake last?
• 3:39:24
  Christy Christy, are you referring to the defendant?
• 3:39:27
  Who's sitting here at console table with her attorney?
• 3:39:29
  Yes. Okay.
• 3:39:30
  She basically ran closing like yes.
• 3:39:35
  Okay after Miss Harris after Kelly Harris passed away.
• 3:39:39
  Did you have any conversations with Christy about Ms. Harris?
• 3:39:50
  You did she you remember just The only thing that I recall is
• 3:39:58
  a message on the boxer where she was saying that stages of
• 3:40:03
  becoming talk to us and pretty much not provide any additional
• 3:40:07
  details in only to answer directly.
• 3:40:10
  What was that? You talk to you about going in
• 3:40:15
  and adding anything to failures as short or medical records.
• 3:40:20
  No. Okay.
• 3:40:21
  Did you go and look at Kelly Harris's chart or not?
• 3:40:25
  There's after she passed away. I did.
• 3:40:27
  Why did you do that? Well, I worked and I see for
• 3:40:31
  quite a while for that. So the one day when I was
• 3:40:34
  working I was medication and I never noticed that her as one
• 3:40:39
  was put in the refrigerator. When it hadn't previously been
• 3:40:43
  there. So I thought that was
• 3:40:46
  sufficient. So I went and looked at.
• 3:40:49
  Okay, when you say her insulin, are you referring to Kelly
• 3:40:51
  Harris? Yeah, they have a label on it
• 3:40:54
  with her name on it. And when did you see that in the
• 3:40:57
  refrigerator after she passed away?
• 3:40:59
  Is that the same? Refrigerator where other
• 3:41:03
  residents medications were stored that needed to be
• 3:41:05
  refrigerated. Yes.
• 3:41:07
  You remember what kind of instrument was that you saw in
• 3:41:10
  there? I do not.
• 3:41:11
  Okay. Have you ever administered
• 3:41:17
  Atlantis in Sulu before? Yes is that his life is insulin
• 3:41:22
  need to be refrigerated. Yeah.
• 3:41:25
  And how is it like when is it administered by injections?
• 3:41:39
  When you looked at we looked at the Kelly's medical records in
• 3:41:45
  the computer after she died was Lantus insulin had that been
• 3:41:51
  entered into the computer. Do you recall it was Francis
• 3:41:56
  insulin. I do not use your call it
• 3:41:59
  insulin and added after the fact that how do you know that after
• 3:42:03
  the fact? Edited.
• 3:42:07
  Thank you. I'll show you a page of people's
• 3:42:19
  last page. Let's have It off here.
• 3:42:34
  Do you recognize that information?
• 3:42:39
  Is that what you saw when you looked in the computer?
• 3:42:45
  After Kelly Harris died. Thank you.
• 3:42:49
  Explain to the court what that information indicates. generally
• 3:43:01
  yes, it's saying that the first slide saying that she just am
• 3:43:19
  and now so basically Christy the
• 3:43:33
  defendant. Went into Kelly's record on
• 3:43:38
  November 7th and made multiple entries indicating that Kelly
• 3:43:41
  Harris received Lance's insulin on dates previously.
• 3:43:47
  Yes. Okay, while Kelly was still
• 3:43:51
  alive and At that time though, so your knowledge from what you
• 3:43:57
  saw on the Quick Mart. Lance's insulin was never in the
• 3:44:01
  quick Market, okay. Did you actually take some
• 3:44:14
  pictures of what you saw in the Quick Mart?
• 3:44:16
  Yes. Why did you do that?
• 3:44:19
  Well, I noticed that my initials were.
• 3:44:35
  I coach patient people's visit to what is that?
• 3:44:50
  What is that a print out of? Okay.
• 3:44:57
  And at the top of the list there is a state Lance's insulin.
• 3:45:02
  Or what's landed souls are yeah, and that's insulin council.
• 3:45:07
  Is this the first tab is the first to have your owner?
• 3:45:10
  Sorry. Dear initials appear there.
• 3:45:13
  Yes. What time?
• 3:45:18
  And did you put your initials in this record?
• 3:45:26
  Did you give anyone else permission to do that?
• 3:45:30
  Did you actually administer Lance's solo start to Kelly
• 3:45:33
  Harris at that day any time? Who was whose initials are AA?
• 3:45:45
  And he was initials are c l. Okay. you know whether if and
• 3:45:56
  then you you gave her you gave Kelly Harris from meds on
• 3:46:01
  November 4th. Um, if if it was if Lance's or
• 3:46:08
  insulin was not in the quick run the fourth would have been there
• 3:46:11
  on the second or the third. know that's something that should
• 3:46:16
  have been entered when she first moved in right?
• 3:46:21
  So it should have been there from the beginning.
• 3:46:22
  Yeah, okay. Normally do the intake and put
• 3:46:42
  the meds into the into that. Was there any was there anything
• 3:47:01
  in the Quick Mart that said you needed to ask Kelly Harris about
• 3:47:06
  her blood sugar or check her blood sugar?
• 3:47:16
  Is it and did you say that the again to clarify something you
• 3:47:20
  said earlier? You said you saw insulin with
• 3:47:22
  Kelly Harris his name on it in the fridge after she passed
• 3:47:25
  away. Yes, but before she passed away
• 3:47:28
  it was Nightmare. In this area was she showing
• 3:47:36
  signs of illness while you were taking care of her while she was
• 3:47:39
  there before she died? Yeah, she got very sick.
• 3:47:42
  She was vomiting and she couldn't get out of bed.
• 3:47:45
  Did you pass that information along to anyone?
• 3:47:52
  Okay, what other people wear that she was sick?
• 3:47:54
  Yes, I there's always two staff on okay.
• 3:48:15
  That's all I have this time. I'm Jerry.
• 3:48:27
  How often did you give? Kelly Harris meds during your
• 3:48:32
  days there that we Are calling you were called giving her
• 3:48:42
  medications? Yes, okay.
• 3:48:46
  Um, and if you're testimony that you had no idea that she was
• 3:48:48
  diabetic, correct. That was a statement so I can
• 3:48:52
  assume that she'd never told you that she's diabetic never said
• 3:48:57
  my blood sugar is high. No.
• 3:49:00
  Never told you I need. insulin and you never saw her glucometer
• 3:49:11
  or the device. That was a fixed to her body.
• 3:49:14
  I didn't. ever How often are residents days at least twice a
• 3:49:23
  week? have your duties With the other
• 3:49:31
  staff. You recall if you ever be I did
• 3:49:36
  not. Know it during her four days
• 3:49:40
  there if she was babe. I know that she was refusing
• 3:49:44
  showers. when you said that she It was vomiting was that
• 3:49:59
  morning? Saturday so that your testimony
• 3:50:13
  that she was sick on Friday. The day before she passed away
• 3:50:19
  and he worked that day. 7 to 2 South and four to eight that
• 3:50:33
  sells back in And isn't it true that after her dinner on Friday?
• 3:50:46
  That she expressed that she was feeling better and she was
• 3:50:49
  sitting up. I am that was that was the
• 3:50:57
  testimony from other staff members.
• 3:51:02
  I've heard you didn't personally see her.
• 3:51:07
  I think how how great her Friday meal was and that she was
• 3:51:12
  setting up. headphones throwing out Okay, and there was some
• 3:51:21
  time Friday. Yeah morning or afternoon.
• 3:51:25
  Do you remember I don't like the time of that You were a living.
• 3:51:30
  That's another house. You were not there and at 4:30
• 3:51:36
  in the morning when she's chatting with her roommate.
• 3:52:04
  We were interviewed by the investigators for the licensing
• 3:52:11
  didn't see Laura. It's true that you told them.
• 3:52:23
  We when you say we didn't have the insulin to give her or even
• 3:52:26
  knew she needed it when you say wait, you're talking about
• 3:52:30
  others other staff members and yourself.
• 3:52:32
  Yes. Okay, so that was from
• 3:52:34
  Communications if you have with other staff members where you
• 3:52:37
  use the collective, yes. You didn't take any blood sugar
• 3:52:46
  readings from Kelly. And he said that no one took
• 3:52:50
  them. Would you take a blood sugar
• 3:52:57
  reading from somebody that had a glucometer attached to them?
• 3:53:01
  Yes, he would still do a fingerprint.
• 3:53:05
  I mean, I guess I don't I have never really
• 3:53:20
  and you said we didn't even know that she had a monitor until
• 3:53:22
  after she died meaning from your communication with other staff
• 3:53:27
  members. Nobody knew that she had that
• 3:53:29
  monitor. Your left your employment
• 3:53:48
  shortly after this incident occurs that correct?
• 3:53:51
  Yes. In how long have you known
• 3:53:57
  Amber? Work together with her.
• 3:54:07
  Yes. That's your mom's adult.
• 3:54:10
  Foster care facility. Yeah.
• 3:54:22
  Never saw a Miss Harris. He said that she was she
• 3:54:26
  couldn't get up, were you aware of any of her?
• 3:54:29
  Diagnoses for extreme back pain? No.
• 3:54:38
  If you recall, do you recall her being able to get up to use the
• 3:54:43
  bathroom? I believe she goes.
• 3:54:50
  You remember if you ever saw her being able to pass urine?
• 3:54:56
  As each resident have a bathroom.
• 3:55:01
  Was there a common bathroom that they would share?
• 3:55:05
  that was did you were you able to access
• 3:55:19
  the Quick Mart system to enter medications?
• 3:55:27
  To ask them. Yes, we heard test but then Duty
• 3:55:31
  know. But so Christy could do that.
• 3:55:36
  Yeah, Amber could enter medication send a quick mark.
• 3:55:40
  I don't know. Were you aware that the pharmacy
• 3:55:44
  is able to remote remotely and medications to Quick Mart?
• 3:55:49
  know I Last time that you saw Ms. Harris Before Saturday
• 3:56:03
  morning. You recall if that was in the
• 3:56:07
  evening? I believe it was she was alert.
• 3:56:17
  So conscious. Yes, she's coming up in bed.
• 3:56:21
  Yes, and so trash can and See her. in a stupor Correct.
• 3:56:32
  She was she was conscious. And she appeared to be with it,
• 3:56:38
  correct? And was she was talking.
• 3:56:44
  She wasn't talking. right at any point in between vomiting during
• 3:56:50
  your time. He never heard her say that's
• 3:56:53
  okay. Thank you.
• 3:57:00
  You redirect. You said you quit working at
• 3:57:03
  puzzling January of 23. Is that right?
• 3:57:06
  Yeah, why did you why did your employment there and at that
• 3:57:10
  time? So I called in regarded the same
• 3:57:15
  in Michigan and then I had talked to her sister and the
• 3:57:18
  pictures and after that I just didn't feel comfortable living
• 3:57:24
  there with my family anymore. He said he reported it.
• 3:57:28
  Are you referring to Kelly Harris's death in the
• 3:57:31
  circumstances surrounding that? Yes, okay.
• 3:57:35
  You reported it to the Department of Licensing and
• 3:57:37
  Regulatory Affairs. Yes.
• 3:57:43
  That's all everyone. We crossed.
• 3:57:46
  Thank you. And I think I have one question
• 3:57:51
  for you. Can we have exhibit number two
• 3:57:52
  back? Do you need my copy or yeah, if
• 3:57:58
  we could because that's one we've been working from so she
• 3:58:01
  can see that one. Okay, you want to hurt which
• 3:58:04
  we're gonna turn to the first tab?
• 3:58:06
  Okay. the Quick Mart systems, so I see the first that first page
• 3:58:19
  or that table is and the two pages after it.
• 3:58:22
  There are medications scheduled out you agree with that.
• 3:58:28
  medication All right, and there's initials of beside each
• 3:58:35
  one of those? Should be administered
• 3:58:38
  medications. Do you know does the system if
• 3:58:42
  you know is the system assign those initials are those based
• 3:58:46
  off of work schedules? Do you know how those get put
• 3:58:48
  in? Yes.
• 3:58:53
  I would assume that Angela was the one that went into the
• 3:58:58
  computer in the facility. Okay, but so I guess let me be
• 3:59:04
  more specific. So let's go down to let's go
• 3:59:07
  down to the first entry for November 6th, which is on that
• 3:59:11
  first table. Says November 6 2022 613 you see
• 3:59:18
  that? Yes, there's a medication listed
• 3:59:21
  next column says physically unable to take.
• 3:59:26
  And then there's the two initials 880 site.
• 3:59:30
  Now, you know how those would have gotten in there. for me,
• 3:59:36
  Angela Okay, so then on the next page. he just so on the next
• 3:59:58
  page there's November 7th. At 11:11 p.m.
• 4:00:04
  You see that? About halfway down.
• 4:00:11
  Yes, I'm sorry 11 p.m. There's a medication listed in
• 4:00:15
  the next entry says physically unable to take and then there's
• 4:00:19
  an initial there of Cl you believe that CL would have put
• 4:00:23
  those in there. the entry Okay, so All right. and then so for
• 4:00:37
  all intent and purposes. Correct me if I'm wrong.
• 4:00:39
  This is the medication list for Pleasant Lake Lodge, correct?
• 4:00:43
  Yes. All right, and so there are four
• 4:00:51
  entries for Lantus between November 2nd and November 4th.
• 4:00:57
  Am I correct on that? Yes, there's no other
• 4:01:10
  medications listed during those days.
• 4:01:13
  Correct. and then other medications begin being listed
• 4:01:22
  on November 5th. Correct.
• 4:01:24
  Yes. You know and only if you know.
• 4:01:35
  If these other medications had been prescribed on a medication
• 4:01:40
  sheet. prior to November 5th What are they were administered
• 4:01:45
  or not? Should they have been showing on
• 4:01:48
  this page from quick? a little bit up above the
• 4:02:16
  November 2nd third fourth and fifth Or fourth it does show
• 4:02:21
  that she received the land is correct.
• 4:02:27
  Or at least I'm sorry. gauge November 2nd Lantus gave to
• 4:02:33
  resident to take Right, I don't. So in your understanding of how
• 4:02:46
  the system works, what would that entry mean for November 2nd
• 4:02:51
  where it says gave to resident to take?
• 4:02:54
  And I realize those aren't here initials.
• 4:02:56
  But if you were to make that entry is that an entry that
• 4:02:59
  you're able to make that you are able to make in Quick Mart.
• 4:03:02
  I'm not sure, okay. Council, is that raising
• 4:03:10
  additional questions? So I'm just asking. right above
• 4:03:29
  where Liz The days and times in the medications.
• 4:03:33
  It says exceptions for Kelly Harris.
• 4:03:36
  What is you know, what exceptions means?
• 4:03:40
  that would mean like medications that weren't just passed
• 4:03:45
  normally so, um when it says gave your resident to take does
• 4:03:53
  that mean there's according to this information at least they
• 4:03:57
  throw some question about whether the resident actually
• 4:03:58
  took it. Yeah that to me.
• 4:04:01
  It would be like saying that we gave the resident of the insulin
• 4:04:06
  pen to do it herself. Okay, and then we're says
• 4:04:12
  physically on able to take starting on the 5th.
• 4:04:15
  Could that be because she was deceased at that point?
• 4:04:21
  Those the system just want to populate the entire month.
• 4:04:27
  I'm actually okay. But do you think exceptions
• 4:04:32
  means times when the medication either was not giving or
• 4:04:36
  couldn't be given or we can't be verified that it was giving or
• 4:04:40
  maybe the record was changed later on for some reason.
• 4:04:44
  Okay. Awesome, because there's another
• 4:04:50
  sorry part of the m a r actually the previous pages.
• 4:04:59
  Where it shows what was giving like in real time right like a
• 4:05:03
  tour of a Statin and be profound Commodities?
• 4:05:05
  Yes. Okay, what pages were just the
• 4:05:09
  pages immediately preceding the page?
• 4:05:15
  Okay. Mr. Favorite is that raising
• 4:05:21
  additional questions. It does not know anything.
• 4:05:23
  Thank you. All right.
• 4:05:24
  Hey, this witness speaks excuse. Yes.
• 4:05:26
  All right, man. You're free to go about your
• 4:05:28
  day. Thank you.
• 4:05:32
  Pictures I need to put on the screen.
• 4:05:35
  Okay, we can. yeah, so there should be an HDMI cable on the
• 4:05:43
  back of the in there All right. Well, they get that going we are
• 4:05:58
  at the end of our four hours, but I'm going to try to keep
• 4:06:01
  going I've been working on some other things that I have to do
• 4:06:04
  today while this has been running to try to free up time
• 4:06:07
  to continue with this. So I'll go as long as I can for
• 4:06:10
  some reason this runs longer than I think it would and we
• 4:06:13
  can't get it all will try to finish it off tomorrow, but I
• 4:06:18
  think we can get it in today based on how many witnesses they
• 4:06:21
  said they would have and where they're at now.
• 4:06:23
  So let's continue. Okay.
• 4:06:28
  With this witness the next witness of people.
• 4:06:47
  Mr. Harrison if you want to wait make your way up to this chair
• 4:06:49
  beside me. For your seated if you raise
• 4:06:56
  your right hand, you saw me swear affirm the testimony you
• 4:06:59
  give us a matter will be the truth.
• 4:07:01
  The whole truth is nothing about the church.
• 4:07:02
  Thank you. Just one second, please.
• 4:07:21
  You good afternoon, sir. Thank you for your patience.
• 4:07:24
  Will you please state your name for the record?
• 4:07:28
  David Harrison h a r r i s o n. And Mr. Harrison, how are you
• 4:07:36
  employed Sir with regard to this case as a medical contract with
• 4:07:41
  how many medical examiner investigator?
• 4:07:44
  Okay, and how long have you been doing that job?
• 4:07:51
  Okay, were you so you were employed in the same capacity in
• 4:07:56
  November of 2022? Okay, as a medical examiner
• 4:08:01
  investigator. Can you give the court to sort
• 4:08:03
  of a brief overview of what you do we go out whenever death
• 4:08:08
  isn't a death is reported to the county we go out and do an
• 4:08:12
  investigation make a determination as to what the
• 4:08:15
  likely cause of death was. How do you, how are you alerted
• 4:08:20
  to a situation that you need to go investigate?
• 4:08:22
  What's your County Central? Dispatch contact us?
• 4:08:26
  Okay. And in that capacity, did you do
• 4:08:29
  an investigation regarding the debt of a lady named Kelly
• 4:08:32
  Harris on November 5th, 2022. And where was Miss Harris's?
• 4:08:38
  Where was she located? I don't have the address right
• 4:08:43
  at hand, but nasd home, Okay, Pleasant Lake Lodge.
• 4:08:47
  Is that something? That's correct.
• 4:08:48
  Okay, and did what, you know? What time you got to call
• 4:08:52
  approximately. It was early in the morning, 8,
• 4:08:56
  ish 8:00, and I can pull up my reporters.
• 4:09:00
  We don't, you don't exact time. We just did you and then did you
• 4:09:04
  go straight there for after you got all her?
• 4:09:06
  Okay. Do you know about approximately
• 4:09:08
  again? What time you arrived.
• 4:09:10
  They call me at 8:00. I probably Okay.
• 4:09:14
  And what, please, tell the court, what occurred when you
• 4:09:18
  arrive there, I spoke to the aid, that was there.
• 4:09:26
  Opportunities last name and said in our report.
• 4:09:29
  I spoke to her went in took a look at the scene took several
• 4:09:34
  pictures talked to the to the look through the medical records
• 4:09:39
  and get an idea of what was going on and spoke to the a to
• 4:09:44
  get well leave us spoke to a family at some point.
• 4:09:46
  They showed up. Trying to get a background on
• 4:09:52
  what exactly it happened what our history was and you're
• 4:09:56
  called and sort of information you received along those lines.
• 4:10:01
  My report, I mean she had some degenerative disc disease.
• 4:10:06
  She was a little dietetic. So describe what you did, please
• 4:10:20
  when you after you talk to those books and that information do a
• 4:10:26
  full view of the body. Make sure that there's nothing
• 4:10:29
  sketchy going on or anything weird or anything ordinary
• 4:10:34
  making sure that their storyline with what I'm seeing with the
• 4:10:38
  body. And you what were you told in
• 4:10:41
  terms of her recent history that she had spent three weeks and
• 4:10:46
  months in medical center in Traverse City for issues with
• 4:10:51
  the control of her sugar that she had been placed in. the AFC
• 4:10:57
  home because her daughter didn't have the capability of helping
• 4:11:04
  her out 24/7 so that she had been placed in the AFC and how
• 4:11:09
  did you find Miss Harris? In the facility, I believe she
• 4:11:14
  was 65 with Jesus. She was on her back with one leg
• 4:11:18
  out of War she was Backwards on her bed that makes sense.
• 4:11:25
  Yes. I'm going to show you a picture
• 4:11:28
  that I didn't say is people who visited four so on the screen
• 4:11:33
  now. Is this a picture that you took?
• 4:11:38
  Yes? Can you please does that picture
• 4:11:42
  actually pick the scene as he found it?
• 4:11:43
  Yes moved to meet people exhibit Ford. many objections objections
• 4:11:50
  Can you please subscribe what this picture shows whenever I
• 4:11:54
  start a case, I take an initial overview picture which shows
• 4:12:00
  exactly what I would present it. Which position that she was in?
• 4:12:07
  Kind of gives an idea in what was on the bed how to betting
• 4:12:11
  was? And there's a patch of some kind
• 4:12:16
  on her left arm there would what was what was that?
• 4:12:19
  That would be an ECG patch from EMS her checking her heart rate,
• 4:12:27
  okay. A constant because we don't have
• 4:12:31
  a way to mark that. Is there a file number we can
• 4:12:33
  reference? It's I am G underscore zero one
• 4:12:39
  seven seven. All right.
• 4:12:50
  I'm going to show you. what I'll call People's exhibit number
• 4:12:55
  five, which is I am G underscore 0173 Do you recognize this
• 4:13:05
  scene? Yes, and what is this picture?
• 4:13:07
  It takes a picture of the contents of the nightstand this
• 4:13:11
  direction and that as you found it correct and moved to admit
• 4:13:17
  people's exhibit number five earners.
• 4:13:19
  The objection five is received. So there's a sort of a
• 4:13:23
  rectangular shape lack device line there.
• 4:13:27
  It's like between an inhaler and cup.
• 4:13:30
  So what is that device looks like a common.
• 4:13:34
  What is a blue counter is a tool used by diabetics to engage
• 4:13:40
  their blood pressure. Okay.
• 4:13:42
  Have you had you worked with who commenters prior to this prior
• 4:13:47
  to that day from the Prior to doing death investigations.
• 4:13:51
  I was a paramedic and EMT. So since 1990 at Delta. in one
• 4:14:00
  way or how many times I I could not dozens hundreds hundreds
• 4:14:07
  probably closer to the Thousand. Okay.
• 4:14:09
  So are you familiar with how these devices operate?
• 4:14:13
  Yes. And did you attempt to access
• 4:14:17
  information from this particular I did were we able to do so I
• 4:14:21
  didn't did the device appear to be working correctly based on
• 4:14:25
  your previous experience working with new Founders?
• 4:14:28
  Yes. Was there any indication that
• 4:14:30
  was not functioning? We able to obtain historical
• 4:14:34
  readings of Ms. Harris's blood sugar.
• 4:14:37
  I get one of those what are those readings generally
• 4:14:41
  indicate going back for the last about four days going back to
• 4:14:46
  November 1st, her blood sugar had been extremely And what what
• 4:14:50
  is the blue common or show I believe it was either higher
• 4:14:55
  500. Looking at the pictures I would.
• 4:15:10
  And I'm just going to show you an example.
• 4:15:17
  You take pictures of those readings with your identity.
• 4:15:21
  So what does depicts is? Three previous values.
• 4:15:27
  One two or high and one is above 3/4, okay?
• 4:15:32
  and those it shows the dates when those dreams were taking,
• 4:15:36
  It does, okay. This picture here, you took this
• 4:15:41
  picture with your phone, know with my camera with your camera.
• 4:15:44
  Yeah. So you took a picture of the
• 4:15:46
  calendar with the reading pertaining to this hairs and
• 4:15:50
  that this picture actually depicts.
• 4:15:52
  What you saw? Yes.
• 4:15:53
  Okay, we'll call this people's exhibit.
• 4:15:56
  Six or honors IMG underscore zero one six seven.
• 4:16:01
  The objection. It's received.
• 4:16:07
  I had several other pictures of that are basically similar, I
• 4:16:12
  think. Up to you.
• 4:16:29
  What is this is? We'll call those people's
• 4:16:32
  exhibit. Number seven, it's Angie
• 4:16:35
  underscore 0165. What is this?
• 4:16:39
  It looks like the next three values.
• 4:16:42
  Okay, and obviously one of those say just hi, then you know how I
• 4:16:48
  would be like over and its measured in milligrams per
• 4:16:51
  deciliter. Is there a correct?
• 4:16:53
  It's it's hard to say without looking up the actual manual on
• 4:16:57
  this particular model some models.
• 4:17:01
  Say hi after 4507 550 but suffice to say it's about 400
• 4:17:10
  open. And he took did you take several
• 4:17:16
  other pictures with I took pictures of every reading that
• 4:17:19
  was in the machine? Yes, and we're most of them
• 4:17:23
  showing High, correct? Okay.
• 4:17:26
  Is there any other information that you obtained?
• 4:17:31
  During your investigation. Your investigation is sooner
• 4:17:36
  pertinent to determining the cause of death.
• 4:17:38
  There were some question as to whether or not she was being
• 4:17:42
  given. the insulin that was prescribed the individual I was
• 4:17:48
  speaking to at the jacc home and told me that she was giving She
• 4:17:54
  was being given one fact. Long acting insulin I believe.
• 4:17:59
  That we have any first night. but was not the other type of
• 4:18:05
  insulin Which is a short acting influence I inquired as to why
• 4:18:11
  but she does the person who told you that assuming the courtroom.
• 4:18:15
  I do not believe so. Okay, you don't write you don't
• 4:18:18
  remember who that was or um, but it's on the front page, right?
• 4:18:22
  Can you refer your report? I can't hold you refresh your
• 4:18:26
  memory. What's that?
• 4:18:27
  Will it refresh your memory? Look at your report?
• 4:18:29
  Yes any objection. You may go ahead and look at
• 4:18:32
  your reports just to determine that good.
• 4:19:12
  Christina booms Okay, um, do you know she was she was the aid
• 4:19:20
  that was on duty at the time that I was there?
• 4:19:22
  I see. Did you have any conversations
• 4:19:25
  with the defendant Christy Tucker Fleischer?
• 4:19:29
  I think she may have shown up before I left, but I don't
• 4:19:32
  remember having a specific conversation open.
• 4:19:38
  So as you're understanding that. Miss Excuse Me Miss Harris was
• 4:19:46
  receding the long acting in but not the short acting as one
• 4:19:50
  correct. Okay, any other permanent
• 4:19:52
  information that you obtained while you're at the same?
• 4:19:56
  She had been ill the last 24 to 48 hours.
• 4:19:59
  Nausea vomiting. Something something akin to what
• 4:20:06
  had been running around in the AFC home, but it was subtly
• 4:20:10
  different. She wasn't running a fever like
• 4:20:12
  like the other patients were okay.
• 4:20:16
  Um, I basically trying to get a sense of what all information
• 4:20:20
  you obtain that you then forwarded to the medical
• 4:20:22
  examiner. Is there anything else that
• 4:20:24
  we're missing? You mind if I look at myself
• 4:20:27
  that refresh remember? Yes any objections that Warriors
• 4:20:31
  you may refresh your memory. All of that would have been
• 4:20:59
  provided to the medical examiner.
• 4:21:01
  I don't see anything additional that was important.
• 4:21:04
  Okay, you did you find any other any other injuries or any other
• 4:21:10
  physical indications that would You deemed relevant.
• 4:21:14
  Yeah, okay. I don't have any other questions
• 4:21:22
  or just witness right now. You're going to cross.
• 4:21:24
  Okay. I'm off.
• 4:21:27
  My name is Jerry Faber. I'm Christie's attorney.
• 4:21:31
  Oh. staff member Christina Boone's told you that and this
• 4:21:39
  was Sometime after 8:30 on November 5th, correct when you
• 4:21:44
  when you spoke in his books. During your time was a little I
• 4:21:51
  was a little off on my time. The time of the report says that
• 4:21:55
  I was found at 8:50. So this would have been closer
• 4:21:59
  to 9:30. Okay, apparently.
• 4:22:02
  So around sometime around that time you spoke in his boobs,
• 4:22:05
  correct? And she told you that Sarah had
• 4:22:09
  been getting the theaters along. The long acting insulin she
• 4:22:15
  didn't use the term Lantus but she's she long acting.
• 4:22:18
  Yes, okay. when you first saw on this Harris She was in she was
• 4:22:29
  in the in the body position that she was found by staff members
• 4:22:33
  and indication that she had been moved.
• 4:22:36
  Yeah. And you and you just described
• 4:22:41
  when we saw the people's exhibit four.
• 4:22:44
  She was basically turned the wrong way on her bed on her back
• 4:22:48
  driver and her clothing looks like it was the shovels.
• 4:22:52
  Of that could have been done by EMS when they were putting the
• 4:22:55
  electrode. I don't know what the
• 4:22:58
  conditioner. clothing prior to Myra did you you said you
• 4:23:06
  physically examined your body correct and rigor mortis set in
• 4:23:11
  early on say yes. What do you mean by that?
• 4:23:14
  Well, she wasn't she wrote her mortise kind of goes through a
• 4:23:18
  phase and wax. I don't want to get into an area
• 4:23:21
  of expertise that might be better for the doctor, but
• 4:23:24
  that's probably not a bit. But she was she she was she was
• 4:23:28
  not firmly fixed. She was still alive.
• 4:23:33
  Okay, but for your morning oh very much.
• 4:23:36
  So thank you. She was cold.
• 4:23:37
  Yes. Staff members told you that.
• 4:23:44
  At approximately 4:30 that morning.
• 4:23:46
  She was having a conversation with the roommate.
• 4:23:49
  That's what they stated. That's correct.
• 4:23:51
  Okay. This has a as a as a training
• 4:23:57
  paramedic. We're 30.
• 4:24:04
  She's a week and talking when does rigor mortis just from your
• 4:24:15
  many many years of experience? When does it start to settle in
• 4:24:19
  again, you're correct and believing that you should
• 4:24:23
  probably be talking to the doctor about that.
• 4:24:25
  However her acidosis would have had an effect on the well again,
• 4:24:35
  that is um It seems It's seemed like a 430 conversation is it's
• 4:24:43
  a little part of that. So you don't give a question.
• 4:24:46
  What what the staff member told me?
• 4:24:49
  I question a lot. I question everything.
• 4:24:53
  Go. your term farfetched Maybe their time was wrong.
• 4:25:01
  I mean there's a lot of different things different
• 4:25:03
  factors that could be involved and details are important.
• 4:25:06
  That's why you're documenting it and it was an important enough
• 4:25:09
  to document, correct. You physically did you just
• 4:25:14
  physically examine her entire body?
• 4:25:16
  That's correct. Can you show me in your report
• 4:25:20
  where her glucometer table was located?
• 4:25:27
  Commodore table this was not one of those.
• 4:25:31
  The adhesive this was not one of those.
• 4:25:35
  That one it was out. It was a figure State.
• 4:25:38
  Oh. Okay.
• 4:25:40
  Oh, okay, so she didn't have one of those not that I saw.
• 4:25:45
  But you would have seen it I would have seen correct.
• 4:25:48
  You would have documented it I would document.
• 4:25:51
  So you're saying that there was not that patch.
• 4:25:55
  You know, she and she as far as I was aware.
• 4:26:00
  He didn't have a phone so there would be nothing to connect it
• 4:26:03
  to. with freestyle Libre 2 probably not.
• 4:27:06
  What does it mean by brittle diabetic?
• 4:27:15
  very people that are having issues with their with their
• 4:27:20
  blood controlling their blood sugars are considered brittle
• 4:27:23
  meaning that it doesn't take much for them to go up and down.
• 4:27:44
  that you that's photos 0177. Maybe is it the device on the
• 4:28:02
  nightstand? You in on Services elbow?
• 4:28:54
  What you referred to as a CGM? CG oh EKG Okay, it's an EKG
• 4:29:05
  electrode. Like normally they're put on
• 4:29:08
  your chest. Okay.
• 4:29:09
  All right. There's nothing wrong with
• 4:29:12
  pushing it there. There's nobody get a read.
• 4:29:15
  And then if you go to exhibit five.
• 4:29:19
  United States times that's good. This one's better.
• 4:29:29
  All right. We were described that as a
• 4:29:33
  glucometer. You see making manufacturer of
• 4:29:35
  that. I can't see that from here.
• 4:29:37
  Okay, the freestyle Libre too, okay.
• 4:29:41
  All right, you're unfamiliar with that device.
• 4:29:43
  I'm that's specific device the liberate to I'm not I mean, I
• 4:29:48
  was familiar enough to get the readings.
• 4:29:50
  Okay, but so you wouldn't you wouldn't know that that works
• 4:29:55
  with and he's on the skin only possible.
• 4:29:59
  I got an expert on those machines, okay.
• 4:30:05
  Just have a lot of experience with them.
• 4:30:16
  How many suspected diabetic ketoacidosis deaths would you
• 4:30:20
  say you investigated? And I've been with the medical
• 4:30:30
  examiner's office. Probably three or four.
• 4:30:36
  Not an extensive amount of experience with that. that
• 4:30:39
  suspected cause of death know I've treated patients live
• 4:30:43
  patients with it, but I also don't do the Mei stuff
• 4:30:48
  full-time. I generally do about two to five
• 4:30:52
  cases. then you so Dr. Wagner didn't actually go out to the
• 4:31:13
  scene. Is that correct?
• 4:31:14
  That's correct. So you prevent you present your
• 4:31:17
  findings to him. right and He looks at those.
• 4:31:24
  He looks at the medical records and whatnot.
• 4:31:28
  And then it's his it's his determination on the Likely
• 4:31:32
  cause of death, correct? You give him a recommendation on
• 4:31:36
  what you think that is or does he sure?
• 4:31:38
  Okay. What would be considered?
• 4:31:45
  Well, I mean, let me ask you this.
• 4:31:52
  So readings that were on. Cyrus's glucometer Include 742
• 4:32:03
  on November 1st a reading of 302.
• 4:32:08
  Okay, okay. 12 minutes later 7:58 280 couple hours later
• 4:32:23
  11:15 p.m. 2:23 12:55 a.m. on 11 to the next the next morning 188
• 4:32:39
  403 a.m. 183 At 913 281 these are all. on her device and they
• 4:32:54
  were all reading while she was at the facility.
• 4:32:58
  And is that a question you you photographed all these and I did
• 4:33:03
  okay. So you you're not disputing
• 4:33:06
  those numbers. They can't I would I would
• 4:33:08
  hesitate on a date. and time on the second 3:50 so that
• 4:33:28
  that's just in the couple of days.
• 4:33:34
  None of those readings were high. the whatever that cut off
• 4:33:39
  is it was your testimony that I think you said nearly all of the
• 4:33:45
  readings were hi there. It was even a period where the
• 4:33:48
  numbers are dropping. Towards the beginning, correct?
• 4:33:53
  Would be consistent with receiving insulin. necessarily
• 4:34:03
  and as I said, I would hesitate to rely on the times and the
• 4:34:08
  date. The data that's collected on the
• 4:34:11
  glucometer. You would hesitate to trust the
• 4:34:13
  numbers, correct? the device designed to be
• 4:34:21
  accurate it is as long as the time and date is set.
• 4:34:26
  I know I cross the diabetics all the time that just don't set the
• 4:34:32
  time on their booklet. The dates correspond exactly
• 4:34:37
  with their time they do I just as I said I hesitate to rely on.
• 4:34:45
  Its like the witness that said that she was alert and active
• 4:34:48
  worth 30 in the morning. Nothing, brother.
• 4:34:53
  All right, just to clarify so the dates that.
• 4:34:58
  The information that you came from the newcomer, they went up
• 4:35:01
  to November 4th, correct? Correct, and she died sometime
• 4:35:07
  probably on the fit, correct? You were there on the fit.
• 4:35:12
  I was there on the fifth lady that yes, that's correct.
• 4:35:15
  So Basically, even if the time of day was inaccurate there was
• 4:35:22
  at least information that's appeared to pertain to right up
• 4:35:26
  to the day before she died. The values are correct.
• 4:35:29
  I just hesitate to rely on the taste of the time.
• 4:35:32
  That's okay. So the dates again did sort of
• 4:35:35
  they do think what she passed away.
• 4:35:37
  That's correct. Okay, and the last reading is
• 4:35:39
  that presumably would have been taking Correct.
• 4:35:42
  Okay. That's all I have your owner.
• 4:35:47
  Sir, one question I have for you you state that you hasn't rely
• 4:35:55
  on the dates and times. Did you rely on those dates and
• 4:35:57
  times at all for your determination?
• 4:36:02
  I rely on the values being that the dates and times on their
• 4:36:09
  were. Reasonable within the time frame
• 4:36:13
  that she was there. They are probably very likely
• 4:36:16
  accurate. I just wouldn't want to testify
• 4:36:19
  that they are. 100 okay. Thank you Council.
• 4:36:23
  Does that raise any additional questions?
• 4:36:26
  So you find me and it's used to be a question about this.
• 4:36:33
  I like to. offer one more exhibit I'm sorry.
• 4:37:12
  I guess I already showed this one.
• 4:37:14
  Yeah with November 4th reading I was in it seven.
• 4:37:19
  He did not admit it. Are you asking for admission?
• 4:37:23
  Oh, yes, please. Any objection seven is received.
• 4:37:28
  So again, they're curious about reading from the day before she
• 4:37:32
  died. Correct.
• 4:37:33
  Obviously if there was any readings on the November 5th or
• 4:37:38
  6th, that would indicate that the time was correct.
• 4:37:42
  Definitely incorrect. But since there was a routing
• 4:37:45
  that pertained to the last time she was alive that would tend to
• 4:37:49
  indicate at least the date was accurate, correct?
• 4:37:51
  Okay. That's all right.
• 4:37:56
  This witness be excused. Yes.
• 4:37:58
  Sure. All right, so you're free to go
• 4:38:00
  about your day Council my afternoon doc.
• 4:38:03
  It starts in five minutes. So we're we'll have to adjourn
• 4:38:05
  this and continue on a different day.
• 4:38:08
  Another day another day. Yep.
• 4:38:10
  Okay. We do have time at 3:45.
• 4:38:18
  I'm being told we've got 345 we can start back up if that works
• 4:38:22
  for everybody. I have two more witnesses Dr.
• 4:38:30
  Wagner. Who's the medical examiner?
• 4:38:32
  Who? You know signs of death
• 4:38:35
  certificate termination is called.
• 4:38:38
  I my questioning him will probably only take about 15
• 4:38:42
  minutes, but I don't know about the time is console.
• 4:38:46
  A similar ballpark. Okay, and then I have one other
• 4:38:50
  Witness. Trooper McClure with MSP who
• 4:38:54
  again? I don't think we'll take very
• 4:38:56
  long. All right, so three sounds like
• 4:39:00
  3:45 will work if that. Works, you know, we want to stop
• 4:39:05
  down. Yeah.
• 4:39:06
  I might my docket my afternoon starts in like three minutes, so
• 4:39:11
  We'll 3:45 work need to work. Okay.
• 4:39:13
  All right. We will adjourn this case until
• 4:39:16
  3:45. Okie dokie friends.
• 4:39:23
  So I'll go ahead and try to capture that when it starts back
• 4:39:29
  up at 3:45 and If you like we can pick this up tomorrow.
• 4:39:35
  Because I'm kind of curious how how it goes.
• 4:39:40
  So we'll do that. Please join us tonight for in
• 4:39:43
  the blind 7 p.m. Eastern 4 p.m.
• 4:39:44
  Pacific. There should be a link somewhere
• 4:39:47
  in this long shadow of ours. I'm sure Barbara's dropped
• 4:39:50
  several times and I will be back here tomorrow 9 a.m.
• 4:39:54
  Eastern 6 a.m. Pacific a half an hour early for
• 4:39:57
  your channel number. I hope you appreciated the
• 4:40:00
  additional 45 or so minutes of covered that we did today.
• 4:40:05
  I had fun. I hope you did too heavy topic,
• 4:40:08
  but I think this was good to watch.
• 4:40:11
  So I see all hope tonight over in the blind.
• 4:40:14
  If not, I'll see you tomorrow. Take care.
• 4:40:16
  God bless.