Latest / The Full Tilt Podcast / USA Wrestling’s Rich Bender: Saving Olympic Wrestling, Fargo Legends, and the Golden Age of the Sport :: Ep 23 Full Tilt Podcast

Transcript

USA Wrestling’s Rich Bender: Saving Olympic Wrestling, Fargo Legends, and the Golden Age of the Sport :: Ep 23 Full Tilt Podcast · The Full Tilt Podcast

0:07
Unknown: This is the Full Tilt Podcast with Hatch.
0:15
Okay, here we go. Another episode of the Full Tilt
0:17
Podcast, and I've got, and probably maybe the most powerful
0:21
man in wrestling is that is that you go by that, Rich Bender? No,
0:24
by no means. By no means. No, this is this is the executive
0:29
director of USA Wrestling, and talk about somebody that has a
0:32
monster, monster impact on our sport. This is the guy right
0:36
here. So, Rich, I really appreciate your time here, and
0:39
this could be a great conversation. Well,
0:40
Mike, an honor to be with you today, and yeah, I just-it's
0:44
not-it's not Rich Bender, by the way. It's maybe the position has
0:47
some story, not the man.
0:51
Well, like I said, we're going to get into let's let's pull
0:53
this a little bit closer. Yeah, let's go and blow your mouth up
0:56
there. Yeah, we're just going to get into just all things USA
0:59
Wrestling.
1:00
Yeah, let's do it.
1:01
And there we go. Now you got your radio voice going. There
1:03
you go. Yeah. See, that's this is all technical errors. Like I
1:05
said, I'm a I'm a wrestler turned podcaster. So we're
1:08
actually a wrestler a long time ago, early '90s. But now state
1:12
chairman turned podcaster, I guess. But wrestler
1:15
at the core.
1:16
That's it right there. So we're gonna get into things, all all
1:18
things USA wrestling. Obviously, we're here at Fargo, and you
1:21
know, no better to no no better person to talk USA wrestling
1:24
with than the executive director himself. So again, we appreciate
1:27
your time. But we're here at the largest tournament in the world.
1:31
Is that correct?
1:32
Yeah, I'd say it's. I mean, there's there's a little
1:35
discussion about that. We we we've looked into the Guinness
1:38
Book of World Records and certainly the largest indoor
1:42
wrestling tournament in the world. There's some, I believe
1:45
it's in Kazakhstan or Kyrgyzstan, some like massive
1:48
event that has a, you know, everybody and their brother
1:52
participating in some tournament. But it's not really
1:54
wrestling. But certainly the the largest wrestling tournament in
2:00
the world, in our eyes, for sure.
2:03
What do we get this year for entries? Oh, we're
2:05
we're we're going to be right around 8500. Wow. Yeah, another
2:09
record,
2:09
I think.
2:09
Yeah, we're going to be close. I mean, it's going to depend on
2:12
whether the you know the the girls weigh in the numbers that
2:16
that are pre registered, and if they do, I think we're going to
2:18
be really close. If not, we're going to be within, you know,
2:22
3040, of an all-time record.
2:24
Yeah, yeah. Well, you mentioned the girls. I mean, just the
2:27
explosion of girls wrestling is just. I mean, and you've seen it
2:30
from its infancy stages. So, I mean, kind of go a little bit,
2:33
and let's let's let's go start on the girls. Yeah. So, I mean,
2:35
it's amazing, and
2:37
you know, funny story. So, in 1988, I started USA Wrestling as
2:42
an intern, and to fulfill my college curriculum, I had to do
2:46
a paper, and and or an assignment specifically that was
2:50
a paper, and and I was given the task of writing a paper on why
2:56
USA Wrestling should fund the very first women's world team in
3:00
1989 to the World Championships, so and it was cool to be
3:04
involved at the sport from with the sport. You know, it's very
3:07
infancy, and and certainly, you know, I think there's, I mean,
3:11
there's tons of data that would show you know the growth and the
3:14
unprecedented growth and how popular it is. But I mean, at
3:18
its core, it's it shouldn't be surprising in terms of you know
3:21
how how important wrestling is, and the benefits that wrestling
3:26
brings to to males for 1000s of years, that that that should be
3:31
the same benefit for women. And you know early on that became
3:35
really evident to us that as soon as we could get to scale, I
3:38
mean there were some headwinds around the development of the
3:41
sport, when when primarily girls' only opportunities to
3:44
wrestle were against guys or boys, and certainly there were
3:47
some headwinds there with you know some foundational people in
3:51
in the in the in the wrestling movement that didn't didn't
3:53
really agree with that. But once we were able to get to scale,
3:57
where I mean now girls, there's you know there'll be a lot of
4:00
girls wrestling here this week that that really haven't
4:03
wrestled many guys, and you know you look five years ago that
4:06
wasn't the case, and I think that was almost like pouring jet
4:09
fuel on the fire when we got to scale and and you know girls
4:14
could have the experience with the same benefits that guys have
4:18
and not have to you know mess with the challenges of you know
4:21
cross gender participation and you know some religious beliefs
4:25
and you know just some inequities around you know male
4:30
and female development physically. So once we got
4:33
there, man, it's been off to the races and and the sport is you
4:37
know it will continue to grow. You know, funny story. When we
4:41
when we hired Terry Steiner in 2002, it was a bit of a
4:46
challenge to get him convinced that he should he should be the
4:50
the women's wrestling coach for for Team USA. And true story, he
4:55
had called me about applying for a job and and. I can't remember
5:00
what university it was. He he was applying for a coaching
5:04
position, and I said, "Well, you know, I'd be honored to write
5:07
you a letter of recommendation, but why don't you come to work
5:10
for us? And he said, "Doing what? And so we talked about the
5:14
women's program, and he was apprehensive at first, but you
5:19
know, certainly he you know he he said some pretty profound
5:22
things in the in in the process, and when we ultimately got
5:25
agreement that he was going to be our first coach. By the way,
5:27
he said, "Okay, I'll do it, but I'll give you two years. You
5:30
know, and that was in 2002. So, yeah, he's been he's been at it
5:34
and become without question the the number one women's wrestling
5:37
coach on the planet. But you know, his point was, hey, I
5:42
understand the benefits that wrestling have have given to
5:46
certainly me and my my twin brother, and I started thinking
5:49
about my daughter, and and there's no reason that she
5:52
shouldn't have those same benefits if she chooses to
5:54
wrestle, and so for him it was just you know wrestling has this
5:58
this kind of magical impact on people's lives, and that's
6:02
that's not it's not just because they're guys, and so I mean
6:07
that's that's that's I think pretty profound in terms of you
6:10
know the the power of our sport.
6:13
That I mean we know I mean we both know you know I don't think
6:16
you go very far to talk to anybody that was a wrestler that
6:20
draws their identity to that, and whether that's someone that
6:23
was a, you know, Olympic champion or someone that just
6:27
was impacted by the sport, maybe at the junior high, high school
6:30
level, and and man, it's pretty magical and pretty cool, and you
6:34
know, it's awesome to see women have those same benefits today,
6:38
and you know, really without restriction, right? And so it's
6:41
it's pretty cool.
6:42
Plus, have a guy like Terry Stein. So I I was teammates with
6:45
with Terry, and well, obviously Android back in the early '90s.
6:49
And man, I remember when he when he took that job. I was like,
6:53
dang! First of all, I was like, man, how did you say wrestling
6:55
get Terry there? Because I mean, that's I mean, it was a big
6:57
tire. I mean, he's you know because he was obviously
6:59
successful on the men's side, and he was, you know, still, you
7:01
know, I think might have been still competing maybe a little
7:03
bit, or probably could have, but I was like, dude, that is huge
7:07
for women's wrestling. Yeah, I tell you,
7:09
I'll tell you a little more about that story. So, I mean,
7:12
after you know, and it was, it was a little bit of a random,
7:15
and I, I mean, I've known known Terry and Troy for you know most
7:19
of their competitive career, and you know we we when he when he
7:25
called me for for that job reference, I mean it just kind
7:29
of it it struck me that man this guy has the right personality
7:32
right he can bring relevancy to to the to the position you know
7:37
he can bring credibility and you know he just if you spend 10
7:40
minutes around Terry Steiner, he's got a pretty unique
7:43
personality, and obviously, you know, one of the most fierce
7:46
wrestlers ever, one of them, and yet has that that side of him
7:52
that just plays really well with with female female athletes, and
7:57
so we had kind of went back and forth, and as I said earlier, he
7:59
was pretty resistant to the idea, and and then I I I
8:05
realized that his wife Jody was going to have some impact on
8:10
this decision, and and if you've met Jody Zuger, his his wife,
8:15
you know, big personality cares deeply about about wrestling and
8:20
the impact that it has on women, and and so we had kind of, and
8:23
she's around both those guys when they were training and when
8:26
competing, and there was times when I was running events, and
8:29
she would call me after, "What do these guys got to do? I'm so
8:31
frustrated. They they work so hard, and because obviously, you
8:36
know, both elite wrestlers, but right, the the water is really
8:39
deep at the highest level of our our sport and just you know
8:42
we're having a hard time breaking through. But anyway, so
8:44
I'd known Jody through through those interactions and and in
8:48
this process I'd kind of hit a little bit of roadblock with
8:50
Terry and connected with Jody and we talked a lot about you
8:56
know the opportunity and talked a lot about Raven even though
8:59
Raven their daughter didn't wrestle, but like opportunities
9:03
for her and where Terry could really make a difference, and
9:06
and finally Jody said, you know, Rich, hey, he's he's taking this
9:10
job, and so I kind of went kind of dark on Terry a little bit,
9:14
thinking, hey, they'll they're gonna once she said that to me,
9:16
we got him right, and so Terry, I I hadn't called him for you
9:22
know a week or so, and he called me and said, "Hey, did you did
9:24
you go in another direction? And I said, "No, we didn't go in
9:27
another direction. He goes, "Well, why didn't heard from
9:29
you? I said, "Well, because your wife told me you're taking the
9:31
job. So so we got. I mean, obviously he was all in from day
9:37
one. Yeah. But and that's you know another reason why Terry
9:40
six Terry's so successful is that family unit at home. I
9:44
mean, Jody's involved and and she cares and and man, just like
9:49
I mean, it's so helpful to have that support system at home and
9:53
you know because it you know wasn't necessarily popular. A
9:56
lot of people who saw Terry as an up and coming. D1 coach, and
10:02
you know he's he's he's proven that it was a good decision.
10:06
Yeah,
10:07
and you know he's had just a massive impact. I would say is
10:10
probably as consequential a guy as there is in the world when
10:14
he's wrestling, and yeah, we're blessed to have him. You know, I
10:18
it's kind of cool to be here in North Dakota this week because
10:21
he and he and Troy are getting the the Teddy Roosevelt Award
10:24
later this year, which is the the award given the highest
10:28
award given to a citizen in North Dakota by the governor,
10:31
and so we're going to celebrate that award in in the fall in in
10:35
Bismarck. So I mean he's he's been being he and Troy both are
10:40
being recognized for for their impact, and but man, we're
10:44
blessed by by the Steiner family for sure.
10:46
There's no two more deserving people there getting that award.
10:50
Those guys are, they. I mean, again, I was just fortunate
10:52
enough to spend. I think was about was probably I know two
10:55
years as teammates, another year or two. You know, was when
10:58
they're second in that club, and I just they're just they're the
11:01
best. You can't you can't beat the Steiner, yeah. Just the
11:04
Steiner guys. They are just the best, and they've got such a
11:07
quirky like like personality, sense of humor. It's it's so
11:10
funny funny talking about a sense of humor. So
11:13
you know we travel a ton, right? And you know I I had a kind of a
11:18
personal philosophy that, and you know certainly you know we
11:22
we we buy coach class tickets to go everywhere and you know when
11:26
you travel as much as we do you you sometimes get upgraded
11:29
yeah yeah
11:30
and you know these complimentary upgrades and I I have had a kind
11:34
of a personal philosophy that hey I'm not going to sit up
11:36
front when there's athletes on board
11:37
yeah
11:38
and you know I don't travel a lot with the team so it doesn't
11:41
really impact me that much, and and Terry knew that knows that I
11:45
that I you know done that before, or that was my
11:47
philosophy. And I we got on a plane one time with the team,
11:51
and I was you know going to the back, and Terry was sitting up
11:53
front. He said, "Hey, Steiner, what the heck? What do you mean?
11:56
He goes, "Hey, boss, I'm leading from the front on this one. So,
12:03
but man, just I mean, and that that's that's I mean, Terry
12:06
Steiner is this selfless of of coach that that I've ever been
12:11
around in my life, and you know, obviously, we all know in this
12:14
sport to be successful like he was as a as an athlete, you got
12:18
to be really selfish, and to make that transition to that
12:22
selflessness, which, and I, you know, I, I think it's true. I
12:26
mean, it's probably even more under the magnifying glass with
12:30
our women's team
12:31
in
12:31
terms of, you know, it's, it's, it's, they're, you know,
12:34
sometimes wired a little differently in terms of, you
12:37
know, trust plays a big factor, certainly in in coaching
12:41
anybody, male or or female, but you know Terry has developed an
12:47
incredible level of trust with our team and in the program, and
12:51
I think that's been you know a part of reason he's been so
12:54
successful.
12:55
Now these national team coaches, because obviously you got him on
12:58
the get Terry on the on the women's side, and then you got
13:00
Bill on the men's side. It's kind of a unique role. I mean,
13:04
just because of the RTCs and just the different landscape
13:07
that we have here in the United States, far as from a
13:09
development standpoint, it's almost like when you're looking
13:12
for somebody to fill that position, they've got to be not
13:15
only obviously you know incredibly competent in
13:18
wrestling and techniques and tactics and stuff, but really,
13:20
almost more so, just competent with people, yeah, and just
13:24
managing a bunch of different, you know, development that goes
13:27
on out around the country.
13:28
And those jobs have really evolved over the last 40 years.
13:32
You know, where I mean, it used to be that if it wasn't for what
13:36
USA Wrestling was doing, or the USWF or the AAU before that, our
13:42
our team USA athletes weren't really getting anything. Yeah.
13:45
So they would come to Colorado Springs for like conditioning
13:49
and training, and camps would be a month long. And we talking to
13:53
you know Bruce Baumgart about that, or we had a camp this
13:56
recently. It was three days, and which you know back in the day
14:00
that was I mean, it was the only place that athletes at the very
14:04
highest level could get that kind of coaching and training.
14:07
More importantly, and it's it's evolved to where you know with
14:10
regional training centers now, I mean there are legit
14:13
opportunities in countless locations around this country to
14:17
get the very best training partners, the very best
14:19
coaching, and the very best facilities and support that you
14:24
know make the roles a little bit different for for actually all
14:28
three of the coaches have have different roles. Terry, I would
14:31
say of the three is you know more I guess connectedness you
14:38
know on a on a daily basis in terms of more girls or women in
14:42
Colorado Springs than than men's freestyle and you know Greco.
14:45
It's there's it's similar to the to the to the women's program
14:49
where there's a higher concentration of our of our
14:52
number one or elite athletes there. But yeah, these all three
14:56
of these coaches have had to adapt, right? And I mean
14:59
relationships. Are so so critical, and it's you know
15:03
obviously more difficult to build trust, more difficult to
15:06
build those legitimate relationships when you're not
15:08
seeing them a lot, seeing them a lot, and so when you do have
15:11
those opportunities to be around our elite athletes, you can't
15:15
miss right. You got you got to be on your A game, and we're
15:17
just like as I said, we're blessed by Terry. We're also
15:20
blessed, but to have a coaching staff in our Greco program, led
15:24
by Herb House and and Bill Zadick, who you know both bring,
15:29
well, all three bring incredibly high levels of of integrity to
15:34
to the to the job, and you know you just it's nuanced. You have
15:38
to, I mean, you have to. You can't treat all the athletes the
15:40
same just because they're in different scenarios and need
15:44
different things from from USA Wrestling, and you know. But
15:47
with the you know the incredible impact that regional training
15:51
centers have had on on our elite program, our coaches have had to
15:56
adapt to work with those, and you know, in a lot of ways,
16:00
there's a lot of truth to this idea of hey, it's amazing what
16:04
you can do, and nobody cares about who gets the credit.
16:06
Yeah, and that's where
16:07
I mean, Bill and all three of our, and actually all of our
16:10
national coaches have had to be humble around the idea that hey,
16:14
it's you know, there's other people that are having a big
16:18
impact, and you know, we we go out of our way to try to not be
16:23
in the spotlight. That's why we're we're so committed to
16:27
these personal coaches and our coaches that are working with
16:30
athletes on a daily basis to be involved and recognize when you
16:36
know when success happens.
16:38
Yeah, fantastic. Getting back to the women's side of it. What was
16:41
the first year that the women's was in the Olympics? Was it oh
16:44
40404? What was
16:47
the Athens?
16:48
Yeah, Athens. What was the what was was there was there a ton of
16:52
difficulties and a ton of pushback as far as getting the
16:54
women's wrestling into the Olympics? Yeah,
16:56
I mean I don't know. I mean
16:58
because it wasn't good to see Olympics and now it's a big
17:00
yeah. So so early
17:02
on, we had a pretty unique strategy around how we're going
17:05
to develop this this sport. And right as I said earlier, I mean,
17:09
men have been at this for 1000s of years, and women since '04.
17:12
Right. And I mean, obviously, we talked about it. You know, early
17:17
'90s, late '80s, early '90s, where you know there were there
17:20
were world championships for for women, but we had a pretty
17:23
unique approach to the development. Thinking that the
17:27
most important thing that we could do was to secure the
17:30
Olympic designation, because that would give us the
17:33
credibility that we would need to build the sport from from the
17:37
bottom up. That if we had this kind of you know castle on a
17:42
hill, or this this tower on a hill that you know women and and
17:46
females, and and those in Russley could could chase that
17:51
we could build an infrastructure from from from the bottom up. So
17:55
you know that's why you know with once we had the Olympic
17:58
designation before we had the NCA designation, or even high
18:02
school recognition of women as a standalone sport in in high
18:08
schools. So I mean that was our approach, and you know that
18:11
there there there certainly there was early on headwinds,
18:17
and you know when it came to not everybody you know was
18:21
comfortable with it, like you know, and I, I mean, I was
18:25
blessed because early on I saw, I mean, that hey, this this is
18:28
this is the right thing to do, right? It's like fighting to
18:31
stay stay on the Olympic program is the right thing to do. You're
18:34
not trying to convince somebody that's not, you know, some
18:37
convince someone of something that's not not the right thing,
18:41
and it was the right thing to do. So we had that kind of as a
18:43
motivation, and you know, as I said also earlier, that once we
18:48
could get to scale, because I think the biggest headwind was,
18:51
my God, my son's not wrestling a girl, or you know, my son got
18:55
beat by a girl, and he's you know, he's he's life's over,
18:57
yeah, yeah, and but man, and so that's
18:59
very real though, yeah, and so I
19:01
think once we we got there, and then you know, with the input of
19:07
folks like Terry Steiner, I mean, the the technical level of
19:11
women's wrestling just went, I mean, just off the charts. Yeah,
19:16
you know, you you know, people would always criticize lots, and
19:18
that's like junior high wrestling, and man, I tell you
19:21
right now, you you you watch this sport even this weekend.
19:24
You watch the the women's tournament this weekend. There
19:28
are some incredibly technical wrestlers in in the pipeline,
19:34
and women's wrestling. The technical level in women's
19:36
wrestling is you know grown just as fast as their participation
19:39
has. Oh,
19:40
because I mean now I mean because just I mean we'll get
19:42
into like all the clubs and NIL stuff and all that. We've
19:45
already touched on RTCs a little bit, but this is kind of one of
19:47
the things that I see that's help really helping the
19:50
development as well now these days. Is now the way that the
19:55
that this high school and middle school system and the Pee Wee
19:57
system is work. It's it's totally changing now. Before it
20:00
used to be a deal where when I was wrestling, you'd have a pee
20:03
wee program, and then that would feed your middle school program,
20:06
and then that would feed your high school program. Now I
20:07
didn't like that anymore. Now you start wrestling at your
20:09
little beater program, and then you're gonna go find one of
20:11
these clubs that's coached by a couple time national champ or a
20:14
world champ. I mean, Burl's got a club. Everybody's got a club
20:17
now because they know that there's good money in it. And
20:19
these guys aren't just coaching boys now; they're coaching
20:21
girls.
20:22
Yeah, Mikey.
20:22
These girls, man, they are getting right out the jump. They
20:25
are getting coached up by the best of the best.
20:27
And you're hitting on something that that you know has changed
20:30
in the sport of wrestling. I mean, it used to be, you know,
20:32
decades ago, like taboo for someone to to make a profit on
20:37
wrestling. Like this guy's coaching wrestling, getting paid
20:40
for exactly. And and it's I mean that has been such a monumental
20:44
positive shift for our sport that there is legit businesses
20:48
you know and legit resources being you know harvested or
20:53
accumulated from the sport that ultimately is being invested
20:57
back in. It's not dissimilar to when we you know first did some
21:01
of our early on, you know, digital broadcasts where people
21:04
had to pay. Where the calls that I would get, like you are the
21:07
Antichrist, you know, wrestling you cannot pay to watch
21:11
wrestling that pull.
21:13
Yep,
21:13
and and so you know the professionalization of our sport
21:17
has made a massive impact there because now, I mean, it's. I
21:22
mean, I I I I say this probably more frequently than I should. I
21:25
really feel like we're on the precipice precipice of the
21:28
golden age of our sport. I agree. From a lot of you know
21:32
aspects, from a business aspect to a technical advancement
21:35
aspect to you know the access that wrestlers now have to like
21:40
I said, the very best coaches, the very best training partners,
21:43
the very best facilities is, you know, I I think the the best
21:46
years are ahead for us.
21:47
I totally agree. I totally agree. I just I mean you just
21:50
you can see it. I mean the bleeding and just even the girl
21:53
side guys side doesn't matter the pee wee level. I mean, but
21:56
when I first started coaching, I mean I I wrestled Iowa from '91
21:59
to '96, and I knew I wanted to be a coach. I mean, that was
22:02
just the way it was. And the only way to coach back then was
22:04
well, either you were really good and you stuck around a
22:07
Division One college program, and then you and I wasn't very
22:09
good, so I had to figure out a different way. So I was going to
22:12
be a teacher, and that was the only way that you could really
22:15
kind of go down that coaching path and actually earn a living.
22:17
So I had to go be a teacher, and high school coach and everything
22:21
else, and now I mean these kids are coming right out of college,
22:23
and they're like, "I'm gonna start a club. Yeah, they're
22:25
making good money right out the job, so it's it's awesome. I
22:27
mean, it really is. So I'm, yeah, I've been through the I've
22:31
been through the ups and downs of it. We're like, you're
22:33
charging how much? Yeah. So nowadays, it's like, hey,
22:36
listen, it is what it is. I've been around for a while, so
22:38
yeah. Yeah,
22:39
I mean, it's yeah
22:40
It's it's not different than a lot of different sports in terms
22:43
of you know the specialization is exactly is a tricky thing
22:46
yes
22:47
and you know obviously you know these clubs to to be successful
22:51
have to have scale right they have to have participation in
22:55
most cases year round which I mean we know that you know
22:59
sports specialization specialization at a really young
23:02
age isn't necessarily a positive thing, and there's not a lot of
23:05
correlation between, you know, 789-year-old, success and and
23:11
winning the Olympic gold medal. But you know, so there's a
23:13
there's a balance there that's you know, maybe not positive all
23:18
the time.
23:19
Right.
23:20
But yeah, it's it's it's cool to see the sport really have a
23:24
sustainable business model that that you know gathers rich
23:29
talent to to stay involved in the sport and to to give back
23:32
and you know I think it's you talk about before we start this
23:36
this interview about you know wrestlers and you know hey I'm a
23:40
wrestler forever, and you know it's it's it's just cool to see
23:45
you know this demographic of the most of our private donors that
23:52
are significant contributors to to to the sport in USA Wrestling
23:56
have a pretty specific demographic. It's a wrestler
23:58
that maybe didn't have a lot of success, but went on to success
24:02
in business. That said, hey, the only reason that I've had
24:05
success in business is that I was a wrestler. Yeah, I you know
24:08
I outwork everybody, and and that's that's really cool to
24:11
see. And then when you kind of marry that that attitude with
24:14
you know business opportunities, you got some pretty big grinders
24:17
out there that can do some pretty cool things.
24:20
Yeah, yeah. You you mentioned you know once a wrestler, always
24:23
a wrestler. How'd you get how'd you get involved in wrestling?
24:25
Yeah, so true story. I was
24:27
I started wrestling when I was really young in first or second
24:31
grade in Boscobel, Wisconsin. I had a cousin that was
24:34
I gotta stop you there. What's the deal with all the Wisconsin
24:37
people that's involved with with you say wrestling between you
24:40
and Tony the Black, it's like Wisconsin basically runs the
24:45
deal. I don't know. Maybe it has something to do with
24:47
those of us that were raised behind the cheddar curtain or
24:50
something. I don't know. But yeah. Anyway, so I mean, I
24:55
started wrestling at a really young age, and and had a cousin
24:58
that was a state qualifier. For our high school, that it was my
25:02
my hero growing up, and you know, I I went all in on on
25:06
wrestling at a very early age. In fact, I have a seventh grade
25:09
report card that's in my office today that I have framed that
25:12
says my grades in in seventh grade science had went down
25:17
pretty significantly. I went like you know down to I mean
25:19
they weren't failing but close, and and my science teacher wrote
25:23
on the back of the report card wrestling, wrestling, wrestling.
25:26
All Rich wants to do is talk about wrestling. Can you tell
25:29
him there's more to life than wrestling? And so it's you know
25:33
that's how I got started and wrestled all through high
25:35
school. Actually played baseball a couple years in college. I
25:38
grew up in a really small farming community in
25:41
southwestern Wisconsin, where I mean we had to play three sports
25:45
to have teams, and I was you know I was I was a better
25:49
baseball player than I was a wrestler, but but without
25:53
question, it was you know it's been a passion of mine my whole
25:56
life. I played football and baseball and wrestled all
26:00
through high school, and then played baseball for a couple
26:02
years in college, and then you know had entered. I originally
26:08
thought I wanted to be a conservation warden or a game
26:10
warden. I went to the University of Wisconsin Stevens Point,
26:13
small division. Yeah, three schools. Dennis Hall.
26:14
Dennis Hall. Yeah, Dennis Hall. Yeah, Dennis Hall. And
26:17
and so I went there for a year, and then decided that wasn't
26:20
what I wanted to do, and and I I moved back to near closer to my
26:26
hometown in Southwestern to went to the University of Wisconsin
26:30
Lacrosse, and they started this new sports management. It was
26:33
like Ohio University and UW Lacrosse were like the first
26:36
schools to offer sports management back in the in the
26:39
late '80s, and just had a phenomenal break and
26:44
opportunity. I was I was doing what we called old timer
26:47
wrestling, and you know on the weekends there would be these
26:51
little tournaments that would pop up around you know the area,
26:54
and I was wrestling in in the tournaments. And I I wrote on my
26:58
resume when I applied for my internship. I wrote my hobby was
27:01
wrestling, and I wasn't wrestling in college. I mean, I
27:04
was just doing these old timer tournaments. And a guy named
27:08
Toby Stewart and Ben Bennett were at USA Wrestling looking to
27:11
pick an intern at the time. You know, the USOPC had had this
27:15
internship program, and literally 1000s of people apply
27:18
for these internships. Which I mean, my advisor in college at
27:23
University of Wisconsin actually told me, "Don't apply because
27:25
you're not a great wrestler, and and your you know your grades
27:29
aren't that good. And but I happened to write hobby. My
27:33
hobby was wrestling, and Toby Stewart saw that on a resume,
27:38
and I was a B, so the stack of resumes that he pulled out of
27:41
this, you know, stack of 1000s. I was a B, so I was on the top,
27:45
and you know, one of the first people they called was me, and I
27:49
hit it off with with Ben Bennett originally, and you know, he
27:52
offered me the internship and came, you know, restless kind of
27:55
history. So
27:56
that's it, huh? Yeah, just you worked your way up through.
27:58
Yeah,
27:58
I started as an intern, and funny story, my very first day
28:03
at USA Wrestling as an intern. So, if you're selected as an
28:06
intern through the U.S. Olympic Committee program, you live at
28:09
the training center. So, I, you know, I hadn't really been out
28:12
of Wisconsin and never been on an airplane, and drove out to to
28:16
Colorado Springs, got all checked into the to the to the
28:19
dorms at the at the Olympic Training Center and Monday
28:22
morning you know had my my shirt and tie on I went over to USA
28:26
Wrestling I walked in and there was a gal there named Jennifer
28:30
Teal who was end up being a dear friend of mine but she was the
28:34
the receptionist and I said hey you know I'm Rich Bender and I'm
28:39
your intern and she shook her head like this and and I said,
28:42
and by the way, I mean, I needed this to graduate from college. I
28:45
mean, I was all done with all my classwork. The last thing to get
28:47
my degree was a internship. Really, and so she shook her
28:51
head, and we're not we're not having an intern. I said, no,
28:53
no, no, no. It's I'm not asking if I can be an intern. I'm I'm
28:57
your intern, and she goes, you're not listening to me.
29:00
We're not having any intern. I said, "Well, can I talk to Ben
29:03
Bennett? And she said, "No, he got fired last week. And so I
29:08
and I said, "Well, can I talk to whoever's in charge? And she
29:11
goes, "No, because he we already talked about it, and you know
29:14
we're not having an intern this this semester. So I I didn't
29:17
know what to do. So I got back in my truck and I drove back
29:20
over to the training center, and this, the guy that was guy named
29:24
Bob Paul was a Hall of Fame media guy, was happened to be
29:27
coordinating the intern program that year, and I told him the
29:30
story, and he goes, "What? And so he calls over to gets the
29:34
same Jennifer Teal at the office at USA Wrestling, and she tells
29:37
him the same thing. We're not, you know, mr. Paul, we're not
29:39
having an intern, and he goes. You let me talk to Dave Miller,
29:42
and Dave Miller was the was the CEO at the time. And Dave, you
29:47
know, kind of tells him, "Hey, look, we're struggling. Like
29:50
they're they're we're struggling. We can't we can't
29:52
have an intern. And this Bob Paul says to him to Dave, he
29:56
goes, "Well, let me tell you something. This guy drove all
29:59
the way out here from Wisconsin." And he needs this
30:01
internship to graduate. And if you can't figure it out, I'm
30:04
going to have to talk to somebody about your funding. And
30:07
which I mean, I I hoped he was just joking that he weren't. But
30:12
and so Dave Miller says, who had never met before and ended up
30:15
being a really good friend of mine, says, "Well, where's he
30:18
from? And the guy puts the phone down. You know, we're in cell
30:22
phones, and he goes, "Where are you from? When I said, "I'm from
30:24
Basqueville, Wisconsin, and he says that to Dave Miller, and
30:27
Dave Miller said, "Send him right over because Dave's from
30:29
Madison. Oh, and so I go over there and and I sit down with
30:33
Dave, and he goes, "Look, we are struggling, right? We I don't
30:36
know if I mean if we're going to be able to stay in business. I
30:38
mean, we're really struggling financially, and there's,
30:41
there's, I don't, I don't have a program for you. You know, Ben
30:44
was gonna be your supervisor, and he's not here anymore. And
30:48
he said, "But I'll tell you what: if, if you, if you agree
30:51
not to like smash me and say, 'Hey, I came here for this
30:55
internship and they weren't prepared, we'll figure it out. I
30:58
said, "Dave, I promise you, I'll wash the windows, I'll, I'll
31:01
vacuum the floor.
31:02
I'll do whatever you want me to do, and I promise you, you I
31:05
won't I won't slam you for that. So it wasn't probably a month
31:11
into the internship. He came in my office one day and said,
31:13
"Hey, would would you think about sticking around here after
31:15
your internship? And so you know, I started as an events
31:19
intern. Then after my internship ended, and you know, Gary Abbas
31:22
always teases me because I always say, "Hey, I started at
31:24
USA Wrestling in July of
31:26
1988,
31:27
and Gary Abbas says, "No, you didn't. You started in January
31:30
one of '89 because that's when you started getting. That's
31:33
when. That's when. Sorry.
31:35
Oh, you're good. That's only fitting. Yeah, that's when
31:39
three. That's
31:40
when you started getting paid. So, yeah. So I started at
31:43
$15,000 a year at USA Wrestling in 1989, and yeah, was able to
31:49
to work my way up within the organization, and you know
31:52
worked for Dave Miller for a while, and then Jim Shear for 10
31:55
years. Who you know was a massive mentor for me. I owe owe
31:59
a lot to you know what I learned from Jim and the opportunities
32:02
that he gave me, and things like being the competition manager
32:05
for Atlanta in '96, and then coming back as our associate
32:09
executive director and responsible for national teams
32:12
and events. It it gave me some foundation. So then, when Jim
32:15
was given an opportunity to move to the U.S. Olympic Committee,
32:19
that you know Bruce Baumgart. Ironically, Bruce Baumgart was
32:22
in the the last part of his term as president of USA Wrestling,
32:27
and then you know one of the last things he did before he was
32:32
done with that term was was offer me the job, and so that
32:36
was in in 2000. So not long after the the not long after the
32:42
games in 2000, so late in 2000, and then in 2000, you know I
32:47
think it was either late 2000 or early 2001. I was you know they
32:51
took the interim title off, and you know I've been now you know
32:56
there for what 26 years.
32:58
Wow, that's crazy. Yeah, how that all started? Yeah, that is
33:04
nuts. Yeah, I mean, so USA Wrestling was in that bad a
33:07
shape then.
33:07
Yeah, I mean there was. I mean, and at the end of the day, it
33:10
was, and it wasn't. You know, we didn't have the membership. I
33:14
mean, right now, I mean, the the driver of the you know, the
33:18
financial resources that USA Wrestling has to reinvest in
33:21
sport, which I think we have no bigger responsibility as staff
33:26
members and those that that you know have some responsibility in
33:29
sport than to to be great managers of the precious
33:33
resources that we are entrusted with. Meaning, a lot of times
33:36
that's membership, right? We the the straw that stirs the drink
33:39
for USA Wrestling is our membership. The 400, almost
33:42
400,000 members that pay that that that those membership dues
33:47
every year is. I mean, that's that's the foundation by which
33:50
we do everything. You know this, and and so you know I don't
33:54
think we have any any bigger responsibility. But back then we
33:57
didn't have that kind of membership. I mean, a really
33:59
small membership, and obviously because
34:01
who was kind of leading the whole wrestling charge back
34:04
then? Was that AAU back then? Well, I mean, USA
34:07
Wrestling had taken over.
34:09
Yeah,
34:10
but it was. I mean, it was USWF and then USA Wrestling. But I
34:17
mean, there just wasn't there there there there there wasn't
34:19
the resources available, and and Dave Miller, and I've I've said
34:23
this lots of times. Dave Miller was a visionary, and just you
34:27
know probably a little bit ahead of his time in terms of you know
34:31
had the ideas of you know where USA Wrestling could go, and just
34:36
you know we didn't have the the financial infrastructure to to
34:39
do it, and so yeah, it got it got. I mean, there were. I mean,
34:43
Jim Shear. It's pretty well documented when he came on Dave
34:47
Miller moved on and Jim Shear was hired. I think in one day he
34:51
fired 17 people in one day, and you know, we you know it's not a
34:56
funny thing, but it just you know Jim had the the courage.
35:00
And and to know what had to happen, and to be honest with
35:04
you, that you know we were off to the races after that, where
35:07
we could you know start to you know operate in a in an
35:10
environment where you know we could you know take on new
35:14
responsibilities and new have new impact when we had the
35:17
resources. Not you know this is Dave had the had the vision,
35:21
just not the resources to back it up. So yeah, there were some
35:24
really lean, lean, lean times, you know, in those in early
35:29
'90s. Wow! And but yeah, Jim Shear, Jim Shear turned it
35:33
around, and you know we've been pretty blessed since.
35:35
Yeah, you mentioned you mentioned Jim Shear. I I haven't
35:37
met Jim. I had Bill my podcast. Yeah, he was awesome. I mean,
35:39
he's literally like one of the most impressive people I've sat
35:43
down with. I mean, talk about I mean, not only just a obviously
35:45
legendary wrestler, but just his persona and just how intelligent
35:49
he is, and just I mean, just really, really super impressive
35:51
person. Obviously, they were and you were a part of it. Is
35:57
getting the Olympic getting us, but back on the Olympic card.
36:00
Yeah,
36:00
best things ever happened to wrestling.
36:01
Man, yeah, take us through that back. Yeah, so 2013 Bills side
36:04
of it, but yeah, so
36:05
and and Bill was um, you know, Bill and Jim both were were very
36:09
very important players in that in that in that whole process to
36:15
to to get back on the program. But you know, it all started and
36:18
you know when Jock Rogue, who was the president of the IOC,
36:22
had this kind of mandate that he was going to modernize the
36:24
Olympic Games. And there's for for a long time there's been
36:28
this idea that the games are just not manageable. There's too
36:32
many athletes, and this commitment that hey, first we're
36:35
going to we're going to we're going to constrict it down to
36:38
10,000 athletes, and then they realize that you know they they
36:41
couldn't get within under 10,000 athletes, so it was 10,500
36:45
athletes. And then, so part of that whole mandate of making the
36:48
games more manageable was the idea of this modernization. So,
36:54
at the time, there were 26 sports on the Olympic program.
36:56
Wrestling was included, and Jacques Rogue's mandate was
37:01
we're going to add two more sports to the Olympic program to
37:03
make it 28, and then we're going to look at the 28 and take
37:07
another one off and put another one on, and the process was such
37:11
that you know when it got to 28, it was just a recommendation by
37:16
an executive committee of like 12 people, just kind of a random
37:21
group of people that were going to make this recommendation. So
37:25
they they added rugby seven in golf to take the program from 26
37:29
to 28. Wrestling still on the program, and then went to an
37:32
executive committee meeting. And most people, in fact, we were
37:35
paying attention to it because we knew there was a vote. And
37:40
all of our, you know, inside IOC people now at the time,
37:43
wrestling didn't have anybody on the inside of the IOC, nobody.
37:46
So we were dealing with USOC, international relations people,
37:51
and and I remember having a conversation with one of their
37:55
execs the day before the vote, and he said, you know, I I have
37:58
to give it to your president. He's he's kept you guys out of
38:01
the discussion, right? So wrestling's not getting, it's
38:04
not in the discussion. That it's gonna, it'll be modern
38:06
pentathlon. That was what what he told me, and and so I went to
38:10
bed that night. That's that's what I was thinking. But so
38:12
they're in this room, and modern pentathlon by most, you know, if
38:18
there was betting going on, they would have been the the favorite
38:21
to to be eliminated. I mean, there's five disciplines that
38:23
are already all in the Olympics anyway in their own right, and
38:26
it's really expensive to to host that at the games, and it's not
38:30
really broadly participated. And so, the the wild card was you
38:36
can talk about sometimes it's not what you know, you know,
38:38
it's who you know. The vice president of the International
38:42
Modern Pentathlon Federation is on the executive board of the
38:45
IOC, so he's in the room. And and I have this is a philosophy
38:51
that I you know I you know I guess maybe we could prove it to
38:53
be true or not. But the the first vote comes, and
38:57
wrestling's named by a couple of people, and they don't, you
39:01
know, they had to get to. I think it was seven to get to the
39:05
decision. So there were, you know, 13 people. So seven was a
39:09
majority. And then the next vote, wrestling dropped down. I
39:13
think had one or two vote, one vote. And then modern pentathlon
39:16
was was getting closer to the to the seven. And then the third
39:20
vote comes and there's seven for wrestling, and I have this
39:23
philosophy that it was just a situation that the seven people
39:27
thought, well, there's no way we're kicking wrestling off the
39:29
Olympic program. I can look this guy in the face and say I didn't
39:32
vote for you or for this sport, and wrestling was caught in a
39:36
just like a weird scenario. Now we were in that position because
39:40
we had an international federation that totally
39:43
disrespected the process because the IOC, you know, went to some
39:48
painstaking efforts to put together these these documents
39:53
and volumes of data about you know how widely the sport has
39:57
participated in our international federation. Just
40:01
told them to go fly a kite. We're not, you know, we're not
40:04
doing it.
40:04
And and one of the and so we actually got a copy of the the
40:09
document that they had completed. And I'll just give
40:11
you an example how how they disregarded it. They said the
40:14
one of the questions was, how many times has wrestling been
40:19
participated on the Pan American Games program, well, the answer
40:23
is every one, right? And they put two. And so, not even, I
40:29
mean, like somebody just like,
40:32
wow,
40:32
just turned it in. But so I mean, that's why wrestling, you
40:36
know, because you have staff members then within the IOC who
40:38
are not are not fans of wrestling because of you know
40:42
the disrespect that they're feeling, and it was a bit of a
40:44
perfect storm. And then you know I remember, I remember I was in
40:50
the shower on the 13th. I think it was february 13. My wife came
40:57
in and she said, "Hey, you need to get your phone. It's blowing
40:59
up. And immediately, I know exactly what's going on. I mean,
41:02
it's because I mean, I knew the vote was going on, and and it
41:06
was. I picked up my phone, and I looked down, and it was Coach
41:10
Gable saying, "Worst news ever. And then it was like, "Oh my
41:14
God! What? And you know, obviously, it was it was a shock
41:19
at first.
41:20
Yeah.
41:20
But you know, we we I'm really proud of the the the response
41:25
that our sport had and our organization had is
41:27
great,
41:28
right? We early on, you know, there was this push to be
41:32
wrestlers, like, hey, we're gonna somebody's gonna pay for
41:34
this, like we're gonna sue somebody, we're gonna, you know,
41:37
we're gonna hold somebody accountable for this. It's the
41:40
dumbest decision ever, which right it wasn't the dumbest. But
41:43
you know we're dealing with royalty and aristocracy within
41:47
the IOC. That right they don't they don't that that that's not
41:51
how they operate. And you know we were able to convince the
41:55
broader sport that hey let's use this as an opportunity and let's
42:00
make them look good. And I remember having those
42:02
conversations early on with a lot of people who are like
42:05
making these jack legs look good. What? Why? And you know,
42:09
but I'm telling you, that was foundational to us getting back
42:13
in because we knew that if if we were kicked out, they were they
42:19
were going to be embarrassed by the by the decision and and have
42:22
a hard time really justifying. So, we we we said to them
42:26
basically, thank you for giving us the opportunity, but we had
42:29
one vote to get first, and that was you know ultimately that the
42:34
the process didn't contemplate one of the the one that was
42:38
kicked out to be able to compete, and so we had a lawyer
42:41
from at the time Fila that found in the in the Olympic Charter
42:46
language that said only the session can determine the
42:49
program, meaning the entire 100 member IOC session they call it
42:54
the general session can determine the program. We said,
42:58
look, you're determining the program. You're kicking us off
43:00
the program and by seven people, we you have to at least let us
43:04
compete with all the other sports that are trying to get
43:07
that 28 spot. And when we, to tell you truth, when we got that
43:11
vote in Saint Petersburg,
43:13
yeah,
43:13
that later you know that summer, it we were we had
43:19
it because
43:20
you know we were we we took a genuine approach that we had to
43:23
change ourselves. We got new leadership within the
43:27
international federation, which that doesn't happen, right? And
43:30
then so once we got had a leadership change, and a in a
43:34
kind of a commitment by everyone to say, this is this is we have
43:38
new life here, and we better not screw this up. So we got to take
43:42
a hard look at what we do, how we govern ourselves. That's, I
43:46
mean, at the time we were pulling balls out of a bag to
43:48
determine who the winners were. The rules were screwed up. The
43:51
officiating had no accountability. Athletes weren't
43:54
involved in any part of the governance, and all those
43:57
changes were made. And you know that's that's that's been that
44:02
was the thing that happened that changed the trajectory of our
44:06
sport, and you know I think it's you know we owe a lot to a lot
44:10
of people that were really instrumental. Nanud Lalavik, who
44:13
is the current president of of UWW, was the perfect leader. I
44:19
mean he's he's he's raised as a diplomat. His dad was a
44:23
diplomat, so he didn't know a lot about wrestling, or didn't
44:26
at the time, and you know, but knew how to to work with people.
44:29
And then he went on to become an ironically an executive
44:32
committee member of the IFC. Really? So we have you know the
44:35
president of our international federation sits on the in the
44:38
general session now. He's just termed. That's
44:41
that's like that's crazy important. Oh yeah, I mean
44:43
that's like yeah. I don't think I mean I don't know this
44:46
landscape that you're talking about. So this is super
44:48
interesting to me, but just having somebody like on that
44:50
Olympic board, I mean just oh my back shot a jockey for you.
44:53
Oh my gosh, and it's you know that wouldn't have happened.
44:55
Yeah, I mean he would
44:56
old leadership. That would happen.
44:57
Yeah, well, he he he is. In the room, I mean, he's that wouldn't
45:02
have happened if he was in the room that day. Yeah, right,
45:05
right. And so, I mean, I know it's. I mean, it sounds a little
45:08
bit like corruption, but I mean, at the end of the day, I mean,
45:12
it's relationships that make a lot of things go around, and and
45:16
and access and knowledge and you know because we met with 100% of
45:22
the IOC members that in that time frame from when we were
45:25
allowed to compete again, and when the vote came in Buenos
45:28
Aires later that that year, we met one on one with 100% of the
45:33
ILC members, all 100. We met face to face with them, talked
45:36
to them about you know the changes that we had made, and
45:39
and to a person, they all agree that this is the craziest
45:43
decision that that are made. You have my support because
45:46
wrestling is one of the oldest sports. I mean, one of the the
45:50
the foundational, I guess, messages that we were able to
45:53
deliver to the IOC was, and you know, a lot of people don't know
45:56
this, that wrestling distributes more medals to more countries
46:00
than any sport on the program besides track and field, and
46:04
track and field has 90 some opportunities and wrestling. You
46:08
know, usually it's 2627, different sports or different
46:11
countries win medals, and to win Olympic medal, right? For the
46:14
most part, you got to have a program. Yeah, and so you know
46:18
that was a selling point with us to the to the IOC, that look, I
46:21
mean, yeah, I mean, we're we have a. It's funny we say, hey,
46:24
we're just because we're old doesn't mean we're
46:27
old-fashioned. But you know, the I think the the number one
46:31
selling point for the majority of the IOC members was how
46:34
global our sport was participated at a really high
46:37
level, and so like that that medal distribution is really
46:42
really important, and and so like I said, we we met with 100%
46:46
of those people, and you know I I don't remember one meeting
46:49
where there was pushback from anybody thinking ah good luck I
46:52
hope you beat softball baseball or ended up being softball
46:55
baseball and squash where we were ultimately on that final
46:58
ballot with, but you know the sport. We weren't trying to sell
47:03
stuff to people. We weren't trying to sell them something
47:05
that wasn't true. It was easy to make an argument. I mean, like
47:08
you do it all the time, right? On the values of wrestling, and
47:11
you know when you're talking to, for the most part, people that
47:14
have some pretty significant historical knowledge of the
47:17
Olympic movement worldwide in the in the role. I mean, we're
47:19
in the I mean we're in the original program,
47:21
exactly,
47:22
and so and right. There's other selling points for our sport in
47:26
that in that environment where it's you know it's not an
47:29
expensive sport to participate in. And Henry Cejudo told me one
47:32
time that hey, the coolest thing about wrestling is all you need
47:36
is to win Olympic gold medal. All you need is a pair of shoes
47:38
and a dream. Yep, and it's true. I mean, there's there's a lot of
47:42
truth to that because you know, and I think it's just it's cool
47:46
to see our sport thrive, and you know, it's it's a it's a sport
47:51
for many many generations to come.
47:54
Yeah, as scary as a time as that was, just looking back at it,
47:58
and like you had already alluded to, it really, I think gave
48:02
wrestling a wake up call in general. Like you were just, I
48:04
mean, we had we were pulling balls out of the bag to
48:07
determine winners, and just the way that's what I love where our
48:10
sports. I love the rule. I like everything about it right now. I
48:13
think everything's really really good. It's very starting to get
48:15
more fan friendly. That outside of the wrestling, it's
48:18
everything's just good. I think yeah. Well, I mean, I think
48:20
there's a level of accountability now, and it's you
48:23
know talking about this tournament here. I mean, one of
48:26
the the biggest changes that were made to this tournament. I
48:28
I used to be just amazed. I go home on, you know, after this
48:31
tournament and and tell my wife, man, I don't know why these
48:35
referees do this. Like, there's you know, 300 referees here that
48:39
a lot of them are taking their whole year's vacation to to come
48:42
to Fargo and get yelled at by coaches, and and that changed
48:46
like overnight from when we started the reviews because
48:49
there was a a layer of accountability. There's a
48:52
culture now that's different, and I and I'm sure there's going
48:55
to be people listening to this saying, "Rich, you're crazy.
48:57
They're still these refs are cheating us, and and you know
49:01
there there's certainly, I mean there's always possibilities of
49:05
of that, but for the most part, when calls don't go our way and
49:08
they're then they're wrong, it's an error, not hey there's
49:12
cheating going on like there used to be, right? It used to be
49:15
kind of a badge of courage to put the screws to somebody
49:18
because they were from a different country or whatever,
49:20
and but there's a layer of accountability now in our sport,
49:23
with with the reviews and and the culture around. Hey, it's
49:26
not cool to to cheat somebody. I mean, that wasn't long ago that
49:30
it was cool to cheat somebody. And so, right, and the sport's
49:35
hard enough as it is to to not have to deal with like
49:38
corruption at a at a at a you know situation. What's the
49:41
worst? And I mean, I don't know. Not sure how deep you could get
49:45
into it, but what's the the most like furious you've been? Yeah,
49:51
over over a situation. I don't know about if if I would
49:53
say furious. I said I've said this publicly a couple times in
49:56
terms of my. There's
49:58
been a lot of my psychol. Which one? Yeah, right. Which one?
50:04
Which one? And it's,
50:06
but I think my mine has been Kerry McCoy's semifinal match in
50:12
Tehran in '97. He's he is wrestling the Cuban in a match,
50:18
and at the time Bruce Baumgartner or Bruce Burnett was
50:21
our coach, and and they had game planned against a guy that, by
50:25
no account, Carey should probably beat. I mean, just the
50:28
guy is really good. And Lexi Rodriguez, Lexi, yeah, I think
50:34
anyway. So Carrie's in the semifinals, and you know
50:39
wrestles the match that he has to wrestle, gets him exhausted,
50:42
laces him to win. We go crazy. We're running out of the venue
50:47
because it was the last match, and you know that that was an
50:49
amazing World Championships. I mean, there, I mean, there's no
50:52
fire marshals in Tehran, and I mean, there couldn't possibly be
50:55
any more people in the arena, and it was just electric. And
51:00
Kerry wins this match, which you know we know who he's wrestling,
51:03
and you know he's he's he's a world champion. And I remember
51:07
running up the stairs, and the the wife of the pro, the only
51:11
female in the building, was was the wife of the the
51:15
international federation president, Fila president
51:17
Madeline Martinetti, and and she grabbed me by the arm and she
51:22
said, "Rich, wait. There's a protest. And her husband was,
51:28
you know, in charge. He wasn't the president of. He was at the
51:31
time. He was not the president. He was in charge of the
51:33
referees. He went on to be the president. But so I turn and run
51:38
back down. I remember John Smith was was our was was one of our
51:41
coaches. Bruce Burnett was the coach, and you know we have the
51:44
time we called them volunteer coaches, and John John was one
51:46
of the coaches, and he had went down. So I'd ran back down and
51:53
and asked this guy Mario Seletnik, who was an exec with
51:58
one of the executive board of the UWW or Fila at the time, and
52:02
I says Mario's there is there some a problem with the with the
52:06
last match? He goes, Yeah, there's a protest. Like like how
52:10
is there a protest? And because there's I mean you you can go
52:14
watch the match, and and there was some interaction with our
52:19
then International Federation rep Larry Shakatano and and
52:23
these officials that were because the process was they
52:29
would take some of the executive bureau members that were in
52:34
attendance and they go in a room and they'd rewatch the match and
52:37
rescore a match if there's a protest and so I mean no
52:41
disrespect to those people. Most of them didn't know the rules
52:44
anyway. So, the the people that were that had the kind of the
52:48
rub with Larry Shakatano, Larry Shakatano had said to one of
52:52
them, "Hey, I don't want you to go in the protests because
52:55
obviously Larry wasn't eligible to be in the protest because he
52:57
was a he's a U.S. guy and it was so there couldn't be a Cuban or
53:00
a U.S. guy in there, and and he grabbed the guy by the arm and
53:03
said, "Hey, you know, I'd rather you not go in this protest.
53:06
Well, this guy like goes ballistic, like felt like he was
53:10
questioning his integrity or whatever, and so the the protest
53:15
goes, and they rescore the match and said that Carey, when he had
53:21
Lexi up when he kicked through for the lace. He landed flat on
53:24
his back, and it was auto tush. So the match ended there, and it
53:28
was you know one of the greatest travesties that I've seen. I I
53:32
mean I I mean it still bothers me to this day, and I not near
53:36
as much as it bothers Gary probably, but you know I mean
53:40
there that's in my mind. That was a world champ right there,
53:43
and so there's, you know, those things. Now it's it's settled on
53:49
the mat, and and you know there aren't there aren't protests or
53:54
protests or opportunity. Yeah, there can be bias on, you know,
53:57
looking at reviews, etc. But you know the days of stuff like that
54:01
happening, thank God, are over.
54:04
And you know, so I mean, I I was able when I was serving as I
54:08
served as competition manager for for the games in '96, and
54:12
you know, been involved in you know the International
54:16
Federation for a long time, ran a lot of events for us, World
54:19
Championships and World Cups and you know Pan American
54:22
Championships, so I I was able as the as the events guy to sit
54:27
in a lot of those because a lot of times I was the guy running
54:29
the the you know he put the camera in or the big old tape in
54:34
and then rewind it and it you know was really clunky because
54:38
you had like one of the guys who was a referee on the bureau
54:41
would stand up and everybody get a score sheet, and then they'd
54:46
start the video, and he'd say one red, and so obviously when
54:51
he's all done, okay, I got nine eight. What do what do you? And
54:55
there was anybody saying, "Well, I got you know I got 10 eight,
54:59
you know. So it was, it was really, and and you know I
55:03
probably talk a little bit out of both sides of my mouth when I
55:06
say this. At the time, I don't think the guy was necessarily
55:08
that was running referees was was cheating as much as he has
55:13
was really arrogant about he was smarter than everybody. Like,
55:15
hey, I know what needs to happen, and he didn't all the
55:20
time. So I mean, there was some probably dark days that you
55:23
could talk about our sport, and I think in 2013 that all
55:26
changed. And you know, we just have to remain vigilant because
55:31
you know we're starting to get you know further and further
55:34
from 2013, and memories aren't quite as vivid and sharp. Yeah,
55:38
that's true. You know, you know 2014, 15. I mean, everybody knew
55:43
that. Hey, we can't be jacking around, right? We can't be
55:47
cheating athletes or you know being you know non transparent
55:52
with stuff. Or we could be right back to where we were.
55:56
Yeah.
55:56
And so we have to stay vigilant to ensure that our sport is, you
56:01
know, I mean, integrity and transparency are, I mean, you
56:06
don't have a chance. I mean, you can look at some other sports
56:08
and see where, you know, that's been a part of the thing. And I,
56:13
you know, I think, you know, integrity is a foundational
56:16
piece of wrestling. And I know it sounds a little bit weird to
56:19
say that, but I think about other challenges that we've had
56:23
as a sport. I mean, no bigger challenge since 2013
56:28
than COVID. And you think
56:29
about you know wrestling and social distancing the antithesis
56:34
of one another, right? And like we should have no no chance,
56:38
right? There should be no chance that that wrestling can survive
56:41
this environment, and I think because of that idea of
56:45
integrity, and I mean, we shake hands before we start and after
56:50
we finish, and you know we do skin checks, and it's not cool
56:54
in wrestling to to I mean it happens to hide ringworm, right?
56:58
It's and you know we do we do med checks, and so I think in
57:01
COVID, that you know kind of foundational integrity of our
57:05
sport saved us because when athletes were sick, they weren't
57:09
wrestling. Right. Right. And and you know I think back um in that
57:13
time when we we did an event in in Utah because there were only
57:16
a few states that were allowing you know any kind of athletic
57:19
competition and you know we were blessed to have some really
57:23
smart people helping us with our COVID committee. And as we
57:26
started to break down tournaments, thought you know
57:29
basketball is way more dangerous than wrestling when it comes to
57:32
personal contact in a game. I mean, you go to a wrestling
57:34
match, you're wrestling one person,
57:36
yeah,
57:36
right. If you're going to a tournament, maybe you're
57:37
wrestling you know four or five different people, and certainly
57:41
if you have COVID, you want to wrestle somebody with COVID. But
57:45
we're able to break it down to say, look, if we can just
57:47
isolate the couple of foundational things that, hey,
57:51
we got to make sure people aren't wrestling if they have
57:53
COVID. You know, and obviously it's a little tricky sometimes
57:56
because we had to do testing that we, you know, was
57:58
expensive. But but we knew that if, you know, if if we could
58:03
just isolate it to you know one-on-one interaction, you
58:06
know, keep coaches and fans, that we could probably
58:10
participate in the sport, and and we proved that early on. A
58:13
big tournament in Utah, we did testing before and after, and it
58:17
wasn't a super spreader.
58:18
Yeah,
58:19
and and so I mean, we-I don't think took the step back that a
58:23
lot of sports did. Funny story: I had a friend of mine that was
58:27
running USA weightlifting at the time, and he called me, and we
58:30
had just-I mean, we'd been running tournaments. Probably,
58:35
you know, we we were running big tournaments, and and that was
58:38
there's still a lot of shutdown in a lot of different states.
58:40
You remember there were certain states that you could you could
58:43
do stuff, and then certain states you couldn't. And he
58:45
called me and he said, "Rich, I know wrestling. Certainly, you
58:47
guys can't do anything, but we're thinking about doing a
58:50
virtual weightlifting event, like virtual. Like we have
58:52
people in their, in their home, you know, lifting weights, and
58:56
then they'll be competing. And you know, let's, you know, you
58:59
have any thoughts on that? I said, Phil, I mean, we're
59:02
running wrestling tours right now. Like, we just had 2000 kids
59:05
in Utah. Like, what? And so I tell you that because I think
59:09
it's back to this kind of foundational benefit and culture
59:13
within wrestling of, of you know this, you know, strong
59:17
commitment to integrity, to you know what the values are that
59:21
the sport instills in us, and I think it's it's saved our sport,
59:26
and and it's helped us get in a position where our sport, you
59:29
know, is is thriving. Is there opportunity, as Bruce Baumgart
59:32
says, to get better every day? Yeah, for sure. I mean, and I
59:35
think it's man, just it's awesome to be around this sport,
59:39
and you know, I think all of those that all all of us that
59:43
that have had the opportunity to be involved are are blessed by
59:46
it.
59:46
Absolutely, you just mentioned Bruce and mentioned Carrie. I
59:49
mean, you've been around. I mean, you probably been around
59:52
more legends and more the sport. I mean, just can you know John
59:55
Smith
59:56
and I were born exactly the same day. Really? Yeah, we're both
59:59
august 9, 19. 65.
1:00:00
Who's who's um,
1:00:02
he's aged a lot. Who's
1:00:04
your who's your the most unforgettable, charismatic, just
1:00:08
if if you were thinking just guy that makes you laugh in USA
1:00:12
Wrestling. I mean, a competitor. I'm curious about that. Yeah,
1:00:16
would that be? Just comes to mind. I
1:00:18
mean, I I mean, I'm sure a lot of people say Roy Selberg. No.
1:00:22
Yeah, and you know it's it's it's it's it's fun because you
1:00:26
know there I have some stories about John, and you know John's
1:00:29
a really a dear friend, and and John was awesome, yeah, and you
1:00:34
know there's a lot of a lot of characters in our sport that
1:00:37
that make you laugh, and you know it's it's interesting
1:00:41
because I think there's there's times. I mean, like a guy like
1:00:43
Terry Steiner has like, and you know this of being around him,
1:00:47
like a sense of humor that you don't you don't expect. Never.
1:00:49
And you know, Cody Bickley and I always joke, and you know, I
1:00:53
call him Misha sometimes, and like, why are you calling me
1:00:56
Misha? And I said, well, because Steiner, you have no idea what's
1:00:59
going on most of the time, just show up and kick people's butts,
1:01:02
you know. And with our women's program, because we joke because
1:01:05
obviously, it's it's a challenge to you know manage that you know
1:01:10
such a diverse team, and and you know these as I said earlier,
1:01:14
these coaches have to understand the nuance of what their roles
1:01:17
are. So at times, it appears like, yeah, what do you mean you
1:01:19
don't know where Helen Rolls is? And and so it's you know, but
1:01:24
yeah, there's your question about you know characters.
1:01:27
There's there's a lot of them. Royce Elger's you know as good a
1:01:30
one-liner guy as there is, and you know, but and also a dear
1:01:35
friend, and you know we've had a lot of a lot of characters.
1:01:38
Obviously, I I think about Dave Schultz and and being around
1:01:41
Dave a lot, I'll tell you the the last thing Dave Schultz said
1:01:45
to me was at the so it would have been in in the fall of '95.
1:01:51
We were at the Sunkist Open, and Dave Dave wasn't wrestling; he
1:01:54
was he was coaching. And I came in the I was our events director
1:01:57
at the time, and came into the the arena, and he was standing
1:02:00
over on the side, eating a lemon like like an orange, you know,
1:02:04
like peeling and eating a lemon like an orange. And I went over
1:02:08
to him and go, Schulte, what are you doing? He put his arm around
1:02:11
me. He said, Richie boy, when life gives you a lemon, you eat
1:02:16
it. And that was the last thing. That was the last thing Dave
1:02:19
said to me. And you know obviously we lost him then the
1:02:21
next year earlier a couple months later but you know guys
1:02:25
like that are you know I don't remember Dave's I mean he's
1:02:29
obviously a big sense of humor and you know but you know just I
1:02:33
mean just a I mean I think a lot about you know what the sport
1:02:37
lost that day when we lost Dave and you know the impact he could
1:02:42
have had, and you know so you know a lot of a lot of fun times
1:02:46
and a lot of really tough times.
1:02:48
Was it was a what's a fun chaotic overseas experience that
1:02:53
you went through? I mean, you've been over so many, you've been
1:02:55
to so many of them. I mean, my goodness.
1:02:58
Well, I mean, there's. I mean, when you travel, I mean,
1:03:00
certainly, you know, times have especially the places that
1:03:03
wrestling seems to. Yeah, well, the state-it's funny. The State
1:03:06
Department says to us all the time that, hey, you know, we've
1:03:08
come to believe that wrestling's popular wherever the U.S. isn't,
1:03:13
and there's some truth to that, by the way. But I mean, and and
1:03:17
times have changed, and and it's you know, technology and
1:03:20
efficiency of travels different than back in the day, where you
1:03:23
know you'd show up somewhere and pray somebody's there to pick
1:03:26
you up, and you know a team would sit around you know at the
1:03:29
airport for half a day you know trying to figure out who's
1:03:33
supposed to pick us up, and you know a lot of those stories of
1:03:37
you know pretty Spartan accommodations traveling, and
1:03:40
you know, just just you know, people happen to to be
1:03:45
resourceful to figure out you know how to how to get in
1:03:48
places. But I mean, I think I think about you know like
1:03:52
memorable things, and obviously I was blessed to be there when
1:03:56
Rulon beat Carlton. And if you remember that game, I mean, I
1:03:58
was there. We you were yeah I was in yeah I mean if you and
1:04:02
you remember this right I mean we we we took out the Russians
1:04:05
on that in that games right Brandon beat Satya in Launy beat
1:04:11
Goguish Li and Rulan you know beat the King and that that day
1:04:15
by the way our international federation had a had a reception
1:04:19
the day of the final and I was invited to it, and I went to it.
1:04:23
That they were celebrating Corellin's fourth Olympic gold
1:04:25
medal. That the International Federation had a had a had a
1:04:28
reception. And I remember telling Raffy Martinetti, who
1:04:31
was the guy was telling me about who his wife grabbed me, who
1:04:33
went on to be the president of UWW, who was actually the guy in
1:04:37
charge when we we got kicked out. I remember saying to him
1:04:41
and say, you know, I, I'm not saying that that that Rulan can
1:04:46
can beat him, but I'm telling you, it's possible. I remember
1:04:48
him saying, yeah, whatever, and you know, but in that,
1:04:52
ironically, in that match, if you you remember it, right, the
1:04:55
referee originally calls for the points for.
1:05:01
Oh, the the
1:05:01
referee calls calls for the for the points for Carellan. If you
1:05:08
mean Purdy, the the referee called for the points for
1:05:11
Carellan, and I I was sitting Matt's side. I mean not right
1:05:15
Matt's side, but there was the the the the Matt judge or Matt
1:05:19
Chairman was a guy named Etchin Martinetti, who was the brother
1:05:22
of Raffy Martinetti, who was in charge of refereeing, who later
1:05:26
went on to be the president of it. And I remember there being
1:05:29
this kind of like panic, like I don't know if that's the right
1:05:32
call. And I remember Martinetti like it was yesterday. Raffy
1:05:36
yells, he goes Etchin, and Etchin turned around. He goes,
1:05:38
look at the video. And when he looked at the video the other
1:05:41
side, you clearly saw that Corellin broke first. Yeah, and
1:05:44
so I mean, I think about those kinds of like, because you know
1:05:48
that if they would not have fixed that, it wasn't getting
1:05:51
fixed, no matter how obvious it was later. That there's no way
1:05:55
Ruland Gardner's exactly they're going to go back and say, "Oh
1:05:58
yeah, we messed that up. Yeah,
1:05:59
and so I mean I think about things like that, or
1:06:02
opportunities like that. I think about when when Kyle beat Sad
1:06:06
Juliev in Paris, and I mean I I mean there's just I mean I'm
1:06:11
such a blessed dude that you know been around a lot of those
1:06:15
incredible moments, right? Heartbreaking moments too. I
1:06:19
mean I think about you know times where man, we just like I
1:06:23
mentioned earlier, things like Kerry McCoy's match and or Kerry
1:06:26
Colat's scenario, like any of those those three or four times
1:06:29
where right just doesn't seem right that you know one guy can
1:06:33
carry that kind of bad luck or you know, and it's you know so
1:06:38
it's it's the I guess the beauty of our sport. I mean, there's
1:06:41
just a lot of ups and a lot of downs, and and you know, it's my
1:06:45
wife says this all the time, and and I've been blessed that she
1:06:48
she's since she's retired, she's traveling all over. We decided
1:06:51
our kids' inheritance are going to be invested in plane tickets
1:06:54
for Michelle Bender, but she said, you know, Rich, one thing
1:06:58
I've come to learn that going to these wrestling tournaments is
1:07:01
like going to weddings and funerals, right? You have
1:07:03
weddings and funerals in the same event, and it's there's so
1:07:06
much truth to that, and it's you know just a blessing to be
1:07:11
around the sport, and I mean just the impact that it's had on
1:07:16
on my life and the life of literally millions of people. I
1:07:19
say this all the time that anybody that's wrestled is
1:07:22
better for it. Period. Never been an exception. Not one time.
1:07:25
Yeah. And you know, just just just awesome to be involved, and
1:07:29
it's really really cool to see the momentum that our sport has.
1:07:34
And you know, looking into this next couple years with the you
1:07:37
know U 20 threes in the fall in Vegas, and then next year's
1:07:40
World Championships and then the games, man, there's there's a
1:07:44
lot of reasons to be really bullish on our sport right now.
1:07:48
Absolutely, I mean the the the stables are full, if you will,
1:07:52
in terms of you know talent. I mean, look at this tournament
1:07:56
here, and you know you look at our final acts and the age group
1:08:00
success that we've had with with all of our you know teams
1:08:05
recently, and I say our I mean our country's teams and and the
1:08:10
importance that you know kids are putting on those teams
1:08:13
earlier than ever, and I think bodes well for us.
1:08:17
Speaking of fortunate, we're fortunate that of your
1:08:20
leadership, Rich, and having guys like yourself leading the
1:08:22
charge for us, and man, I appreciate your time. Yeah, this
1:08:26
has been amazing. Yeah, I don't know. I
1:08:28
don't know what's going on here, but we yeah we can continue.
1:08:31
We'll figure it out. No, yeah, like so.
1:08:33
Yeah, we're going to continue it. Yeah, we'll put it all in
1:08:35
one big episode. But yeah, we got plenty of plenty of stories.
1:08:38
Yeah,
1:08:38
Mike. I I mean, I'd be remiss if I didn't say thank you to you,
1:08:41
and you talked a little bit about you know stories and not
1:08:44
rich bender stories, but I mean it's really important for us to
1:08:48
have this kind of intentional investment in our history.
1:08:51
Yeah,
1:08:51
and man, it's it's cool to see and man the impact that that
1:08:56
you're having. Like I said, I enjoy watching programs. Thank
1:08:59
you, and the impact that it's having is significant, and
1:09:03
certainly your work in in Tennessee as our state chairman,
1:09:06
and
1:09:07
you know I started like I just can't get anybody to take it
1:09:10
from me. Yeah, you shouldn't have missed that
1:09:11
meeting, but you know it's it's and and and I say this a lot
1:09:16
about you know and say it hopefully say it enough to you
1:09:19
guys as our state leaders, is that's the foundation of our
1:09:23
sport is the infrastructure. I mean that it. I mean that
1:09:25
sport's great and it's you know all by itself, but the
1:09:29
infrastructure that exists and the 1000s of people like Mike
1:09:32
Hatcher that that devote significant amounts of their
1:09:36
time to pay opportunities forward, to entrench the sport,
1:09:40
to raise its relevancy, it makes a difference, and it's it's the
1:09:44
reason our sport's great. And so, thank you for for what you
1:09:47
do. And man, I I mean you
1:09:51
can thank Dan Gable for that because as soon as I got when I
1:09:54
got into coaching, he told me specifically. He said, "Well,
1:09:57
you know, you got to get involved in the USA wrestling
1:09:59
now." I was like, "Well, what do you mean? He goes, "Well, he
1:10:01
just that's just you got to do it. I was like, "I guess I'm
1:10:04
gonna start doing whatever whatever they need. Yeah, I'll
1:10:08
tell you what, I, I, I, I
1:10:09
mean, there's no more more influential people in our sports
1:10:13
history than Coach Gable and and just you know being around him
1:10:17
and you know you're blessed to have been touched by him and
1:10:20
he's the man and yeah he's the man that's that's what.
1:10:26
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1:11:01
All right. Well, we got we got you know slightly interrupted.
1:11:04
Not bad though. Yeah, it's okay. Listen, Fargo. Yeah, you know,
1:11:09
Groundhog Day. That's that's pretty much it. You have a guy
1:11:12
like Rich Bender on here, and you know, it's shoot. You know,
1:11:15
there's the stories. The we we probably talk for shoot 12
1:11:18
hours. I got actually have to coach. I have to be the state
1:11:20
chairman, and I have to wear different hats here, and I can't
1:11:23
just do podcasts all the time. So we piece it out together. I
1:11:26
think we're okay.
1:11:27
Yeah, well, I guess it gives me some purpose to be in Fargo.
1:11:30
There you go. People
1:11:31
ask me, like, what do what do you do in Fargo? I and I said,
1:11:34
well, you know, that's a good question. I I think I walk
1:11:37
around thank people.
1:11:38
There you go. Well, there's plenty of those to thank here
1:11:41
for their brothers here. Yeah, a lot
1:11:43
of people to be thankful for for sure.
1:11:44
Yeah, people are asking me, "Well, you did use a podcast
1:11:46
when you're in Fargo. I'm like, "I'm gonna try, but understand,
1:11:49
I'm still the state chairman. I still have 11 kids here that
1:11:51
wrestling, you know, in my club. I probably need to attend to
1:11:54
them at some point in time. So, you know, between sessions, you
1:11:57
know, I I probably pull some off.
1:11:58
Well, I'll tell you, Mike, that's what makes this
1:12:00
organization so great, you know people like you that are given
1:12:03
so selfishly, selflessly, to to the sport in you know wearing so
1:12:09
many hats here, and you know you put 10, 15,000 people in in
1:12:13
Fargo for eight days. There's a lot of work to be
1:12:16
done. Oh yeah, yeah, no doubt about it, no doubt about it. I
1:12:18
know I know there's just enough. I mean we have I think our
1:12:20
delegation, we're getting better every year. You know, we're
1:12:22
always hovering between the 95 and 105 participant between the
1:12:27
boys and the girls side delegation here in Tennessee. So
1:12:30
it's getting better. Yeah,
1:12:31
it's getting better. I mean, we're we'd love to to bump over
1:12:34
10,000 entries. That that I'd say that's kind of our goal. But
1:12:37
yeah,
1:12:38
you know, obviously the the quality quality wrestling
1:12:41
opportunity is the most important thing, and you know,
1:12:44
giving kids an opportunity to to experience the sport at a at a
1:12:47
unique level, but most importantly, change a lot of
1:12:50
lives this week.
1:12:51
Absolutely, yeah. No, I tell everybody that this is you know
1:12:55
because obviously everybody and parents, you know, coaches,
1:12:58
everybody they play that cost and the ROI factor in in which
1:13:03
events to go to, and all of them look at well, I'm not. We're not
1:13:06
spending that kind of money to go to Fargo, North Dakota, and
1:13:08
the chance of them going zero and two. And I tell them
1:13:11
consistently, you know that. And I've been coaching for 30. I'm
1:13:16
going up 35 years. I think it was my first wrestling club. I I
1:13:19
started running back at Iowa, back in the day, this is this is
1:13:24
the one wrestling event that where I see a significant change
1:13:28
in kids when they go and participate, and this goes for
1:13:32
kids that come here and go four and two, or they they all
1:13:35
American we win it, or even the kids that come here and
1:13:38
literally just they don't even make it out the first period
1:13:40
four matches they go one four and literally wrestle four
1:13:42
periods wrestling, just because of the training and the
1:13:45
preparation that it takes to come here and to get ready to go
1:13:49
at a tournament in mid July, and then just the whole Fargo
1:13:51
experience in general. When they do it, when they do that, and
1:13:54
they complete that process, they come here, they compete, they
1:13:58
get to know kids from the from their state, other states,
1:14:00
possibly from the black market, and they come back literally a
1:14:04
whole different wrestler. Yeah, and this is that. This is the
1:14:06
one. I mean, there's don't get me wrong. There's great events
1:14:08
out there, and there's great tournaments out there. But this
1:14:10
is the one where I see like literally a significant change
1:14:13
in kids when they go through the whole Fargo experience.
1:14:15
I agree totally. You know, I mean, it's in. It's it's really
1:14:18
woven into the culture of certainly USA Wrestling. I mean,
1:14:22
it's been the marquee event for us for, you know, 50 years
1:14:25
probably, or almost 50 years. And yeah, it it for sure changes
1:14:30
lives. And I mean, there's a lot of reasons why. I mean, part of
1:14:35
it is the journey here, and you know, part of it is the the bond
1:14:38
that that these kids develop with their coaches and their and
1:14:40
their teammates, and man, you know just the the the the awe
1:14:47
that you feel when you walk in this building for the first time
1:14:50
and see 30 mats, and and just the spectacle that this event
1:14:55
is, and then you think about how difficult it is to to compete
1:14:59
and. And to, I mean, I think it wasn't long ago there was a
1:15:05
weight class that had 21 undefeated state champs in it,
1:15:09
and you know, so I mean, obviously, it's it's wrestling
1:15:12
at the very highest level in our country at this age group, but
1:15:16
you know, it's a you know accumulation of several things
1:15:20
that that changed his lives, and as I said yesterday, I mean
1:15:23
anybody that's ever participated in wrestling's better for it.
1:15:26
Period. Never been an exception, and I'd say the same thing about
1:15:31
coming to Fargo and competing in junior nationals. And you know,
1:15:35
you I mean, there's all kinds of data around how you know
1:15:40
participation in this event translates into success, you
1:15:45
know, at the international level. But you know, certainly,
1:15:49
you know, at the Division One level, I mean, I think Jason
1:15:52
Bryant does a really good job of tracking that. And I mean, the
1:15:55
percentages of NCAA Division One champs that participate in this
1:15:59
event is very high. Yeah, and so you know there's it's it's you
1:16:03
know it's probably one of our first indicators of of you know
1:16:08
kind of the future is is here and you know but yeah it's it's
1:16:13
it's it's an awesome event. I think about you know the
1:16:16
referees and I think about the coaches that give up a big part
1:16:20
of their summer, and other volunteers that give a big part
1:16:23
of their summer to to to provide this opportunity, and it's you
1:16:28
know it's always the same. You know, people go home and say,
1:16:33
"Man, it was worth
1:16:34
it,
1:16:35
and yeah, it's expensive and something certainly we we we are
1:16:39
aware of. And one of the beauties of our sport is that
1:16:43
you know cost usually doesn't prevent participation, and you
1:16:48
know obviously you know there is a lot of expense associated with
1:16:52
participating in this event, but you know it's there's value
1:16:57
there too.
1:16:57
Oh yeah, no, there is. There's serious value, and and like I
1:17:00
said, I wouldn't be such a strong advocate, obviously, if I
1:17:02
not only amongst the kids in the state of Tennessee, but also
1:17:06
obviously my own my own club, and and you know, I mean, I'm
1:17:08
just I'm proud of our state for the numbers of competitors that
1:17:11
we have consistently every year. I know when I first started
1:17:14
coming out here, probably about 1520 years ago, I mean, from
1:17:17
Tennessee, we literally have maybe 13 to 15 kids, you know,
1:17:21
so it was the number's really low, and now we're hovering
1:17:23
around that that three digit mark, so it's really good. And
1:17:25
we have we had three three in the Greco Finals last night,
1:17:28
which was really quick. We had two champs, champ won the titles
1:17:32
at the same time, which was really cool. Shout out to Chase
1:17:34
Smith and Logan Rasky. Yeah, two really really good kids. They
1:17:37
were side by side in the 16 U and Junior Matt, and then later
1:17:41
on, Maddox High is in the finals against Ivanov's. That's
1:17:44
awesome. Yeah, so and so getting those
1:17:46
kids from Cleveland. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:17:48
Two of them are from Cleveland. Oh, actually, yeah, yep. Two of
1:17:50
them are Cleveland. Maddox High is from Cleveland, and Gordon
1:17:53
Connell.
1:17:53
Gordon Connell still around Cleveland.
1:17:55
Gordon Connell still in Chattanooga. Yep, he's still
1:17:57
he's still around. Gordon Connell's he's awesome.
1:18:00
Yeah, he's good, good, good man.
1:18:02
Well, we're talking experiences. I mean, obviously the Fargo
1:18:04
experience, but I mean, if there's anyone that's had just
1:18:09
experiences worldwide, it's most certainly our executive
1:18:12
director. As far as just different places that you
1:18:15
travel, different competitions that you've seen, different
1:18:18
crazy things, we are getting into some of them on the ride
1:18:21
over here, but man, man, what what what type of experiences
1:18:26
your your position brings to you is something else, huh?
1:18:29
Yeah, and I said this yesterday that you know we travel.
1:18:32
Obviously, the sport takes us all over the world, and man, I
1:18:36
personally been blessed beyond measure to you know for an
1:18:40
average at best high school wrestler to be able to make a
1:18:43
career and you know life around this sport has been man a
1:18:47
blessing that I don't take for granted but been been able to
1:18:50
travel the world and the State Department says as I said
1:18:53
yesterday that wrestling's popular wherever the U.S. isn't
1:18:56
and you know so I think about those experiences like you know
1:18:59
I've been to Iran four times, and you know, was there for the
1:19:03
the the we were the first sports team to travel in Iran into Iran
1:19:09
from the U.S. after the revolution. That was the Tacti
1:19:11
Cup just before the the World Championships in 97, I believe
1:19:17
that was, and you know, so I was on the team, or I was part of
1:19:21
the delegation going to to the world championships there, and
1:19:26
the thing that struck me about travel to Iran is, I mean,
1:19:31
wrestling is so important to their culture and and so
1:19:34
important to you know their entire country that you know
1:19:39
American wrestlers tend to be heroes there, and and it's I
1:19:44
mean I'll never forget walking into that arena in Tehran, and
1:19:49
it was amazing because I mean you couldn't there was 18 19,000
1:19:53
seats in this arena, and there was it was amazing because you
1:19:59
walk in and you couldn't. Even really get into your seats an
1:20:02
hour before, and the the concourses were full, and yet
1:20:06
the seats were all full. And I'm like, man, where are these
1:20:08
people going to go? And they blew this whistle, and every
1:20:14
aisle filled up. I mean, people just went. So it's just a mass
1:20:17
of humanity. I mean, there's fire marshal would have been
1:20:20
losing their would have lost their mind there, but and it
1:20:24
just I mean the mat was wrapped with you know carpets you know
1:20:31
like actual you know Persian carpets and I mean it was a
1:20:37
spectacle and but and it was you know I said, talked. We talked a
1:20:42
little bit about a World Cup that we did in Kermanshaw, but I
1:20:46
mean, they were supportive of our team.
1:20:48
Yeah,
1:20:48
and I think it it speaks to you know the the the strength of
1:20:52
wrestling to be kind of this ambassador for humanity. And I
1:20:57
know that sounds a little cliche,
1:20:59
yeah,
1:20:59
but it's true. And I've seen it in Russia. I've seen it in Iran.
1:21:02
I've seen it in Turkey, and I mean, where the sport has a
1:21:06
unique way of bringing people to get people together. I mean,
1:21:10
obviously, with Iran, we couldn't be any further apart
1:21:12
from our political views in terms of certainly our
1:21:15
governments, like we're at war with them now. But you know, we
1:21:19
have a strong relationship with the Iranian Wrestling
1:21:21
Federation. I mean, it's it's you know they were in in Iowa
1:21:25
not long ago, and you know we're working hard for them to come to
1:21:28
the U 20 3s. I think I think we're going to get that done,
1:21:31
and certainly the World Championships and and in the
1:21:35
Olympic Games. But I mean, Iran needs to be in the World
1:21:38
Championships, right? I mean, there there there there are you
1:21:41
know one of our fiercest competitors, and and you know
1:21:44
wrestling in their country is so important. So, yeah, traveling
1:21:47
to places like that and and seeing how the sport breaks
1:21:52
down, you know those barriers, and I mean I remember the first
1:21:55
time was really nervous about man, this is going to be this is
1:21:59
going to be okay, and it was. I mean, never once have I been
1:22:03
there and not felt comfortable or felt threatened, and you
1:22:06
know, just if anything, I was hanging around Jordan Burrows
1:22:10
over there. It's like hanging around, you know, I don't know,
1:22:14
Babe Ruth or somebody or baseball fans, and just I mean,
1:22:18
they just mob them. But
1:22:21
it was funny because when when Metcalf, when I had him on my
1:22:23
podcast, he was talking about them. I can see that the first
1:22:26
time, or he was trying. He was over there with Jordan, and he's
1:22:29
he said this Iranian fan just went up and was just crazy. He's
1:22:34
like, oh, and he he he wanted Jordan's Gatorade bottle or his
1:22:38
Gatorade chicken, and so Jordan gave it to him, and the guy
1:22:41
grabbed it and started dumping it all over himself. And they
1:22:45
were just chanting the whole time for him. It's just like
1:22:47
he's like Michael Jordan over there.
1:22:49
Yeah, I mean it's and and and they take our our participation
1:22:54
seriously there. I mean they they've always been you know
1:22:56
great security details around us, and you know not to to
1:23:00
necessarily keep us safe from someone trying to do harm, but
1:23:03
just being mobbed. And but yeah, I mean it's it's there's been
1:23:09
some some great experiences like that. And
1:23:12
you were talking about that World Cup and about about the
1:23:14
arena filling up. That was pretty wild. Yeah,
1:23:16
yeah. So we were in Kermanshaw for the the World Cup and we
1:23:23
were loaded we had a we had a great team and and it was you
1:23:27
know most people thought it was going to come down to Iran and
1:23:31
Russia or Iran and and the U S for the for the finals and and
1:23:36
it did but prior to that I mean it was home ice for us every
1:23:41
match with Georgia and Russia. I mean, the Iranians were cheering
1:23:45
really, really, really strongly for for the U.S. In fact, I
1:23:50
remember our very first match; they had to stop the
1:23:53
introduction because they were you know we're doing face-offs
1:23:56
and and they had to stop the introduction because the entire
1:24:01
arena was just going crazy, yelling Jordan, Jordan, Jordan,
1:24:07
and then you know the fun thing about that that World Cup was we
1:24:12
got to the final, we got to the final with with Iran and and had
1:24:18
a slow start. First, we lost the first four, and thought, man,
1:24:22
this match is going to get away from us. And then you know the
1:24:25
cavalry came, and I mean, I mean David Taylor, you know,
1:24:31
absolutely broke Yasdani, and that was incredible. And you
1:24:35
know they carried him off as if I mean he he thought he was
1:24:39
dying. I think he felt his lungs at a different level than he's
1:24:43
ever felt, and probably hasn't felt since. But then it came,
1:24:47
you know, Kyle won, and then it came down to the heavyweight
1:24:50
match. You know, if we won, if I mean, we if we would win the
1:24:56
match, it would have been five five. But because David pinned
1:24:59
Yazdan. We were gonna we were gonna win.
1:25:02
Yeah,
1:25:02
and he came up a little short, but it was man such a such a
1:25:05
great experience. Was that was
1:25:07
that probably like like a craziest wrestling environment
1:25:10
you've ever been in?
1:25:10
Well, I mean those environments in Iran, yeah, the the four
1:25:15
times probably as crazy as of environment that I've ever
1:25:19
experienced. But man, when when Kyle beat Sagilayev in Paris,
1:25:25
that was pretty cool.
1:25:26
Yeah,
1:25:27
and I mean, there's been a lot of times that you know Olympic
1:25:29
Games when you know Roulan beat Corellin, and I mean some pretty
1:25:34
electric venues. But yeah, I mean it's it's a it's a
1:25:39
different environment when it's USA. I was blessed this this
1:25:46
spring to go to the Winter Olympics for the first time, and
1:25:49
I serve on the board of the U.S. Olympic Committee, and and our
1:25:52
board was was brought to the to the Olympic Games in Milan, and
1:25:55
the first Winter Games I've ever been to, and got to experience
1:25:58
the gold medal game with with Canada, and it was it was
1:26:03
electric too, but different. I mean, it's just different from
1:26:06
from. I mean, obviously, you know that. I mean, it was a
1:26:11
storybook with with with Kyle and Sagilayev in Paris, right?
1:26:15
It came down to last mansion, and you know to beat Russia and
1:26:20
and to win was, was absolutely, you know, electric, and to be
1:26:25
around Kyle's dad and John Bartis and and others, and just,
1:26:29
you know, totally, like, losing it really. And I I remember that
1:26:33
that big celebration, and and I, I I mean I'm jumping on
1:26:39
everybody and and I start crying, and and I'm I kind of
1:26:44
realize that I'm like on somebody's chest, and they're
1:26:48
patting my head, and I'm I'm bawling like a baby when Kyle
1:26:51
won, and I look up, and it's the president of the international
1:26:54
wrestling, Nanad Lalik, just patting me on the head like a
1:26:58
you know little little kid, but it was man, it's it was it was
1:27:02
emotional and and cool and just happy for for everyone,
1:27:07
including you know like our state chapters and those people
1:27:10
that invest in in the organization because that's
1:27:13
that's their team and you know obviously it's it's awesome to
1:27:18
see athletes win and and achieve crazy things like that, but
1:27:24
yeah, the support is awesome.
1:27:25
Yeah, what's a what's a crazy like overseas story that might
1:27:31
have been? I don't know some crazy travel or some crazy just
1:27:34
just it was just a bizarre turn of events.
1:27:38
Well, we we went to this would have been in 1997 or no no 90
1:27:43
yeah 97 I said 97 was was in Tehran so it would have been man
1:27:54
I'm I'm I'm missing the year Lescuche's one in 97 I believe
1:27:59
so I might have my years mixed up a little bit there, but yeah,
1:28:05
he
1:28:05
was 97. Yeah, yeah. So so we
1:28:07
were so we're going to Krasnyarsk for the World
1:28:12
Championships, and when you go to back in the day when you were
1:28:17
when you went anywhere in Russia, you would fly into the
1:28:21
to the major air or their you know their international
1:28:23
airport, and then you'd have to like spend a day in Moscow, and
1:28:27
then fly out like at two in the morning to you know at another
1:28:32
airport to wherever you're going. In this case, we're going
1:28:35
to to Krasnya, Krasair, and you get to the airport, and it's you
1:28:40
know midnight. Your flight's at two, and the airport is packed,
1:28:44
like packed, packed. And you know I am in Russia. Like lines
1:28:51
don't mean the same thing as lines do in the United States.
1:28:54
So people just and you know so you you go through this
1:28:58
gauntlet, and you know it's it's an hour to get your ticket, get
1:29:05
your bag checked, knowing that there's probably little or no
1:29:08
chance I'm ever seeing my bag again, because this place is
1:29:11
total chaos. And you get to the very last part of the of this
1:29:18
journey to get on your plane, and there's a magnetometer, and
1:29:22
I'm thinking they're putting people through this
1:29:25
magnetometer. Like people are getting on with huge like
1:29:30
backpacks with chickens, and I mean it's crazy. And they're you
1:29:34
know walking through the magnetometer, and they're just
1:29:37
you know people just walking, and you walk out on the tarmac
1:29:40
to To go in the back belly of this big old plane, and and so
1:29:45
I'm I'm there, and all I have is my briefcase because all my bags
1:29:48
checked, and they send me through the mag timer, and it
1:29:52
goes off. Like oh, they stop, and they made me stop, and and I
1:29:55
had to go sit like in this chair by the, and I'm watching. These
1:30:01
Russians are going through this thing. Like, I mean, they're
1:30:03
carrying rifles and stuff, right? I mean, yet I got a like
1:30:07
a briefcase with me, and they're making me sit in the chair.
1:30:09
Well, right, it was a it was a deal. They said you have to go
1:30:12
back out and pay for your bag, and I said I'm not going back
1:30:16
out to pay for my bag. You have my bag. Yeah, like I'm not.
1:30:19
There's no way because I'm missing this flight, and and so
1:30:23
I look, and here comes Jim Shear, who is the CEO at the
1:30:26
time, and you know Jim Jim jokes about this every now and then
1:30:29
when we talk about it. But he comes, and I'm I'm sitting there
1:30:32
watching him, and he's got the same briefcase I have, right?
1:30:36
And he comes, they make him, they they they tell them to go
1:30:41
stand over by me, and I get up and I said, "Oh, can I go? Go,
1:30:45
and they so they let me go, and so Jim's there, and I run out
1:30:50
and you know get on the plane and and thinking, man, I'm
1:30:53
probably getting fired now because I mean, there's this
1:30:56
unwritten rule when you're overseas, it's every man for
1:30:58
himself. So, but you know, we're getting ready to to to close up,
1:31:03
and I see Jim running out across the tarmac. So, he got through.
1:31:08
He had to. He actually went back out and paid him like 50 bucks
1:31:11
for his bag. Really, but I mean, there's. I mean, that's not
1:31:15
really a wrestling story, but it's you know, that's the kind
1:31:17
of experiences and travel that I mean, our athletes deal with
1:31:21
that kind of stuff still. You know, it's better now, but you
1:31:26
know, back in the day, you can talk to guys like Royce Elder,
1:31:28
and he'll tell you, you know, some really crazy stories, and
1:31:33
and you know, maybe one of the best storytellers we've got
1:31:37
around. So, oh, he's
1:31:38
yeah, he's the first one. Yeah, I told you yes. I like to tease
1:31:41
him. You know,
1:31:42
Royce has been one of my good buddies since I started USA
1:31:46
Wrestling, and yeah, we were running back in the day dual
1:31:48
meets. You know, we'd have we'd host the World Cup, and then
1:31:52
we'd host dual meets with with all the teams. And Royce was my
1:31:56
number one guy to wrestle. I mean, he would say yes to every
1:31:59
dual meet, any place, any time. So we got really close because I
1:32:03
knew I could always call on him, and obviously, really, really
1:32:06
good wrestler, and and you know one of the best. And one one day
1:32:10
we were we were joking around, or you know
1:32:13
he's
1:32:13
cracking on everybody, and and I put my arm around. I go, Royce,
1:32:16
you know, I've known you for a long time, and I just realized
1:32:20
that that we do have something in common, and he kind of looked
1:32:24
at me and goes, "What, what do what do we got in common?
1:32:27
Because he always thinks it's about being a farm kid. I'm from
1:32:30
a small farming community, and I said, "What do you what do you
1:32:33
mean? What do we got in common? I said, "I just realized that
1:32:35
you and I have won exactly the same number of world titles. So
1:32:40
yo, he'll be po'd when he hears me say that because it's the one
1:32:44
thing I think that I can get him on because usually it's the
1:32:47
other way, right? He's
1:32:49
quick witted. You don't want to battle with that.
1:32:51
But you know, it's guys like Royce Elder make our sport fun,
1:32:54
and you know, it's great to have him still engaged and around.
1:32:57
And you know, I think you know, part of our culture that's
1:33:00
really important. Is athletes like that giving back, and you
1:33:03
know you can walk out here in the arena and see, you know,
1:33:06
world team members, Olympians, and you know those that have you
1:33:10
know been blessed by the sport themselves give back. I mean
1:33:13
yourself included, and you know that's that's a you know I don't
1:33:17
know that we can say that we're the only sport that does that
1:33:20
because I think that you know probably that exists in some
1:33:22
other sports, but man, wrestling-it's certainly a
1:33:25
foundational strength of ours.
1:33:27
That's that's really cool. Yeah, no, I agree. I agree. But moving
1:33:30
forward, I mean, you've been at you've been at it for a while.
1:33:33
Obviously, USA Wrestling has-I mean, really-I mean, just man,
1:33:39
it just keeps climbing. It keeps climbing. Product keeps getting
1:33:42
better. I mean, everything. The organization keeps getting
1:33:44
stronger. You guys are growing. Obviously, we're opening up in a
1:33:47
brand new office here when we go out for the state leaders
1:33:50
convention next month, and look forward to seeing that. That's
1:33:54
really cool. What's the vision moving forward? What's the
1:33:56
what's the plans for USA Wrestling?
1:33:58
Well, I mean, obviously, we have a lot of events on our on
1:34:01
horizon for us that that that we're fixing to capitalize on,
1:34:05
whether that's the U 20 threes this later this year or the
1:34:08
Senior Worlds next year, and obviously the games in LA. But I
1:34:11
mean, talking about the success and you know the role that our
1:34:15
that our sport is on, and in particular USA Wrestling, it's
1:34:19
not it's not complicated. It's not it's not hard to understand
1:34:23
why. And the reason that USA Wrestling has had the success
1:34:28
it's had is because of its people and because of its
1:34:30
infrastructure. It's not-I mean-in our sport is at the
1:34:33
foundation of that, but man, wrestling is blessed, and USA
1:34:38
Wrestling is especially blessed with leadership that care deeply
1:34:43
about the sport in in really every corner of our country,
1:34:47
right? We have 50 state chapters that work tirelessly to provide
1:34:52
quality wrestling opportunities for America's youth, and that's
1:34:55
that's that's a winning a winning idea. In terms of you
1:35:01
know having success, and the organizations build on four core
1:35:04
business objectives: building the brand, growing the base,
1:35:07
networking in the community, and winning with our teams. That's
1:35:10
you know we joke at the office sometimes about hey if you're
1:35:13
doing something that's not contributing to one of those
1:35:15
four things, stop doing
1:35:16
it.
1:35:17
And you know that's you know it's been I mean that's not
1:35:19
something Rich Bender came up with it's a you know it's been a
1:35:22
foundational principle of of USA Wrestling for as long as I've
1:35:27
been around almost 40 years and it's and it's worked and you
1:35:31
know but at the core are the people in our sport and you know
1:35:34
the sport I mean we can talk for three days about the benefits of
1:35:38
that wrestling has on on individuals and society, but
1:35:43
yeah, I mean, USA Wrestling. You know, our vision is to to
1:35:46
continue to grow and and prosper and provide opportunities for
1:35:51
kids to experience the support for generations to come.
1:35:55
Obviously, we're we're one of 52 national governing bodies for
1:35:59
the United States Olympic and Paralympic Committee and the
1:36:01
governing body comes with responsibilities, right?
1:36:04
Providing safe environments, you know, providing quality
1:36:09
experiences, whether that's through great, you know,
1:36:12
coaching education programs, so so that the experiences are good
1:36:16
for not just the athletes but the parents and and those that
1:36:20
touch the sport, and you know we we we are investing in
1:36:24
refereeing, understanding that that's a pretty foundational
1:36:27
piece of our sport to grow. In fact, was able to chat with our
1:36:32
with our referees that are here at their their annual meeting a
1:36:35
couple days ago, and you know three 400 referees, a lot of
1:36:40
whom take their entire year's vacation to come here and and
1:36:43
officiate care deeply about the sport and many of those were
1:36:47
wrestlers and and or parents of wrestlers that understand the
1:36:53
the you know the impact that the sports had. So, I mean, yeah,
1:36:56
USA Wrestling is we have some ambitious goals. I mean, we want
1:37:00
to want to win every single gold medal, every single world
1:37:03
championship. We want to we want to grow this membership to you
1:37:06
know a million members. We want to we want to continue to
1:37:11
provide opportunities for people to to use wrestling as a as a
1:37:16
foundational business opportunity for them to to to
1:37:20
build and prosper programs and clubs, so I mean, there's a lot
1:37:26
there, but you know, it's it still comes back to the
1:37:30
foundation of an infrastructure, the right people, and in a sport
1:37:35
that we know is right.
1:37:36
Yeah, I actually had this. It's interesting because I I had this
1:37:40
I guess discussion at our team, our parent and athlete meeting
1:37:44
last night, and then also on the boys' side, you know, because I
1:37:48
think a lot of people, and obviously what I do at my state
1:37:51
level is nothing like you. You have to manage at your at your
1:37:54
level as far as like a director type, executive director type of
1:37:58
deal. But I just I told them we're we're never going to be
1:38:01
the most popular, you know. We don't. I mean, the pats on the
1:38:04
back and the thank yous. I mean, that we can probably do without
1:38:06
that. We the complaining is what we you know get defensive about,
1:38:10
and I get defensive about obviously because I'm in you
1:38:13
know I'm in charge of a board of directors that's totally
1:38:15
volunteer. I'm volunteer, and it's like listen, we're
1:38:18
volunteers here, but at the end of the day, like you know,
1:38:20
whether you like our decisions as board board members or not,
1:38:23
everything is directed to the betterment of the kids.
1:38:26
Everything everything goes towards the kids. Everything
1:38:28
everything with the with the kids' best interest in mind. But
1:38:31
you but you mentioned the infrastructure part of it, and
1:38:35
that's one of the things that I had to kind of. I mean, I've
1:38:38
been our state chair for I don't know I don't even know I lost
1:38:40
count. 15 years, whatever. But that's the thing I didn't
1:38:42
understand from the get go, from the beginning. You know, maybe
1:38:45
even my first 10 year before I came back, and then I came back.
1:38:48
You know, and it took over again in Tennessee. I think in my year
1:38:51
five or four or five year. And but we already we had some board
1:38:54
members in place that were a little bit better on the
1:38:56
infrastructure side. Our treasurer Josh Durgil, credible,
1:39:00
got in a in a good financial position. My my vice chair Derek
1:39:03
Harrison. They're all very very organized and business minded
1:39:07
and kind of developing infrastructure. Our national
1:39:09
teams leaders Mackenzie Fowler and Jarvis Little. They they're
1:39:12
so good at that stuff. And me, I that's not my strong suit, you
1:39:15
know. So that's the big important piece. So it's a it's
1:39:18
really interesting that you you know you mentioned the
1:39:20
infrastructure part of it because that's-it's not all just
1:39:22
about just wrestling and whistles and takedowns and
1:39:25
everything else. It's you got to have you got to run it like a
1:39:28
business.
1:39:28
Yeah, and and and that doesn't come without challenges. Yeah,
1:39:32
right. I mean, and you know, we
1:39:34
especially you're in a very unpopular position. Yeah, I get
1:39:37
it. Yeah, I get it. You know, it's it's
1:39:40
it's interesting to to be able to serve on the the U.S. Olympic
1:39:43
and Paralympic Committee board, and you know, been the chair of
1:39:45
the National Governing Body Council, which is the council of
1:39:48
all the NGBs that make up the U.S. Olympic and Paralympic
1:39:51
Committee. And I mean, those sports and those organizations
1:39:55
that struggle with infrastructure and governance. I
1:39:58
mean, I say this all the time. Bad. Governance is the cancer of
1:40:01
the Olympic movement, and I think that's true within our
1:40:04
state chapters too. Like, yeah, we don't always get it right.
1:40:07
No, I mean, at the end of the day, for sure. But I mean, if
1:40:11
you have the right people, usually you get to the right the
1:40:14
right place. And you know, with kids, you know, at the center,
1:40:18
it's you know, it's it's what I mean, we're an athlete-driven
1:40:21
organization at the very highest level, right? We we we care
1:40:25
deeply about not just winning World Olympic gold medals, but
1:40:29
athletes and and you know it's that infrastructure that
1:40:35
provides those opportunities and attracts the people like
1:40:38
yourself to to be a part of something is pretty cool, but
1:40:42
it's it also important. It's important to recognize that
1:40:45
that's why that without that infrastructure, I mean, if you
1:40:48
have you know bad governance structures and and you know then
1:40:53
right you're you're distracted and you're not able to provide
1:40:56
those quality wrestling opportunities for for kids to to
1:40:59
participate in you know, but it's funny because at USA
1:41:03
Wrestling, I think a lot of people think that hey, it's all
1:41:07
about the Olympic team. That that's that's and certainly
1:41:11
that's wickedly important to us. And you know, as the national
1:41:14
governing body, we're we have the the responsibility to
1:41:18
identify and to you know, assist with the training and the
1:41:23
preparation of of our teams to participate, but it's not all
1:41:28
about elite athletes. I mean, a lot of what we do is about elite
1:41:31
athletes, and I'm sure I'm going to get some grief about saying
1:41:34
that on the on a podcast. But Marina and I say this all the
1:41:38
time: it's it's our membership that is the straw that stirs the
1:41:42
drink for us, and it's you know not only is that the you know
1:41:46
the biggest revenue driver of for USA Wrestling that that
1:41:50
funds a lot of our programs, but it's at the core of what who we
1:41:54
are, right? It's yeah, Kyle Schneider and Kyle Dake and you
1:41:59
know Kennedy Blades, and you know, you you know, name our
1:42:04
elite. You you can name our elite athletes, and that's yeah,
1:42:07
they're they're the face of the organization a lot of ways. But
1:42:11
man, I I'd say that you know, bulk of what we focus on is are
1:42:17
those kids that will never make a world team, right? Or but will
1:42:21
you know, have their life changed by our sport, and you
1:42:24
know whether they give back to USA Wrestling specifically or
1:42:27
even the sport, it's just I mean I I think it's cool to be around
1:42:32
so many people that are driven by the idea that it's just about
1:42:35
providing the opportunity and providing a quality opportunity,
1:42:39
and so yeah, it sounds a little cliche at times to to talk about
1:42:43
it that way, but I think our sport's different than other
1:42:46
sports because of the infrastructure, because of the
1:42:49
people, and because of the foundation of what the sport is.
1:42:53
And I said this yesterday that you know Henry Cejudo said,
1:42:55
"Hey, to be successful in wrestling, all you need is a
1:42:57
pair of shoes and a dream. And right, he achieves at the very
1:43:01
highest level, but yeah, it's infrastructure and and like I
1:43:06
said, it's building the brand. Sure, it's growing the base
1:43:09
sure, it's networking the community sure, it's winning.
1:43:12
Sure, but you know ultimately it's a it's more of a holistic
1:43:16
approach that gives the opportunity for the organization
1:43:20
to be successful.
1:43:21
Yeah, yeah, no, I can, I can definitely relate. I know, I
1:43:23
every year when Fargo comes around, you know, I, you know,
1:43:29
it's, it's probably very similar, obviously in your
1:43:31
position, but at much, much, you know, bigger scale. But
1:43:34
everything gets funneled through me, and everything gets funneled
1:43:37
through you because I mean, because you're the exact, you
1:43:38
should know, you're in charge of everything. You, you get all the
1:43:40
votes on the board, so I go round and round, back and forth
1:43:44
with even some of my board members because they don't see
1:43:47
quite because I don't have kids, you know. So I'm 53 years old,
1:43:50
single with no kids, so I'm kind of like Switzerland, you know. I
1:43:53
I look at it from a lot different words. A lot of our
1:43:55
our members are our parents, and they look at it, you know, from
1:43:59
a little bit different way, which is good. I mean, it's good
1:44:00
to have a little mix, but we have board members, we have we
1:44:04
have coaches, we have people that don't. Again, we get back
1:44:07
the Fargo thing. Don't see the value in this here, you know,
1:44:10
because wow, you know, it's a it's a tough tournament in the
1:44:13
world. We should really only just send our best kids. And I'm
1:44:16
like, no, that's not it's not what we're here for, you know.
1:44:19
It's a deal where we have to because we do things a little
1:44:21
bit different as a state as far as how we travel here. We allow
1:44:25
our you know our club kids, our club coaches to come. We they
1:44:28
can pick their travel people is what they can, and so we don't
1:44:31
we don't elect our our coaching staff as a board. So you know
1:44:36
that's that's strictly for the kids' benefit. You know we want
1:44:38
them to have their coaches in there, and and but then we also
1:44:40
have some kids that maybe don't have the coaching back home, or
1:44:43
they just you know the ones that don't have quite the experience
1:44:46
here. That stuff's very very important for them too to be
1:44:48
able to interact with our state's best. And I think that
1:44:52
like I said, when when you guys put so much you know emphasis on
1:44:55
the Olympic you know an Olympic team and and doing well at the
1:44:58
Olympic, that stuff all bleeds down. Because that gives gives
1:45:00
kids you know things to look up to and things to dream and
1:45:03
strive for and to set goals for. Same thing in our state and at a
1:45:07
smaller level. If we're you know putting in a lot of effort and a
1:45:11
lot of time and a lot of resource into our national
1:45:13
teams, well, I would think that the rest of the state would want
1:45:16
to follow suit and try to make those. And same time, but at the
1:45:18
same time, we have to include those because they make up the
1:45:20
both membership, so it's super important to get those kids
1:45:23
here. Not not the term saying you know what, you're not really
1:45:26
ready for Fargo. Don't come. No, you need to come, and you need
1:45:28
to get around these these type of individuals that are the best
1:45:31
in in our state. What we have to offer.
1:45:34
Yeah, I mean, and that's so true. And I probably was remiss
1:45:37
in not making a bigger deal about you know our recent
1:45:41
success of it being you know a direct result of of leadership,
1:45:46
not me, but leadership from our board. Bruce Baumgartner is is
1:45:51
the best. I mean he's he is, I mean has integrity beyond
1:45:55
measure, respected in not just the wrestling world but the
1:45:59
entire Olympic world, and and you know challenges us daily,
1:46:04
and and he if you talk to Bruce for 10 minutes about you know
1:46:08
what is you know I talked to him for a long time what afternoon
1:46:11
yes they're asking I promise you he's going to tell you that we
1:46:14
just try to get better every day just a little bit better every
1:46:17
day and he he challenges you know our staff and me, but man,
1:46:21
he is-he is-he's such a selfless guy that he cares so deeply
1:46:26
about about the sport and the organization. That I mean,
1:46:32
he-he's-he's the reason that that or a big part of why we
1:46:35
have the success we have. And he's a volunteer. I mean, the
1:46:38
amount of investment time and he invests in our sport is is
1:46:42
crazy, and now you know he serves on the UWW Executive
1:46:45
Board, and the travel, and the and the expectation for for that
1:46:50
is is pretty incredible. But yeah, I mean it's I mean there's
1:46:55
a lot of different verticals within the sport and within USA
1:46:59
Wrestling that are really good, and there's you know there's
1:47:02
challenging ones too, and you know it's not you talk about you
1:47:07
know state chapters, and you know we're we're blessed by you
1:47:10
know the Tennessee's state chapter structure and your
1:47:13
leadership, and you know getting the right people on the bus that
1:47:17
that share that vision that hey it's about the kids and it's
1:47:19
about providing opportunities. We always get that right. It's
1:47:22
not in you know. There's times where where we struggle, and you
1:47:27
know we can get better. And as Bruce Baumgartner, you know,
1:47:30
challenges us constantly is that hey, we just got to get better.
1:47:33
We learn from our mistakes, and and and move things forward. And
1:47:37
you know, I think sometimes as USA Wrestling grows, right? We
1:47:42
become a bigger target for people to criticize us. Ah,
1:47:45
these guys, you know, and and you know a lot of those
1:47:48
criticism we criticism we deserve, but you know, but I
1:47:53
tell you that you know I assure you there's 50 full time
1:47:56
professionals that wake up every day in Colorado Springs trying
1:47:58
to you know work hard to provide opportunities and lead things.
1:48:03
So
1:48:04
I love that when every year we go the when I go with the state
1:48:08
leaders meetings, that's the first thing when your opening
1:48:11
address every year. I mean you are beyond beyond beyond
1:48:16
thankful for your the staff and and you because you obviously
1:48:19
being a strong player in the Olympic movement and being on
1:48:22
the different boards and seeing the different organizations, you
1:48:24
know, out there, and just say you're basically hands down.
1:48:27
There's nobody even close. We're like the model of all the
1:48:30
Olympic sports.
1:48:31
Yeah, and and it's you know Archie Randall in our at our we
1:48:36
have a breakfast every year for our state chapters, and you know
1:48:40
he came up to me this year and said, "Are you going to say the
1:48:42
same thing you say every year? And I said, "Yeah, I'm going to
1:48:46
say the same thing I say every year because I mean it, and I
1:48:49
don't think there's anything more important. And you know,
1:48:52
you you touched on a little bit, you know, the the enormous
1:48:56
number of people that volunteer their time to to give back and
1:49:01
pay things forward or opportunities forward is, and
1:49:05
that's about all we can do is thank them. Yeah, and you know,
1:49:08
so I've I've always felt that that is an important
1:49:11
responsibility that leadership has is to is to make sure that
1:49:16
people know that that they're appreciated for their for their
1:49:20
investment in, you know, but you know, one of the things that we
1:49:24
talked about in that state leaders breakfast, which is, you
1:49:27
know, I think something that will be, you know, left to the
1:49:31
next generation, is this idea of the generational wealth
1:49:36
distribution from one generation to the next, and and you know,
1:49:40
we are on the precipice of the biggest wealth transfer in the
1:49:44
history of humankind, and there's no question that's going
1:49:48
to happen. But are we going to pass that wisdom on to the next
1:49:52
generation? And I think our sports figured that out a long
1:49:55
time ago, right? And you know we talked about that earlier in
1:49:58
this call about. Or this this podcast about you know paying
1:50:03
things forward and
1:50:04
and
1:50:05
you know you walking on the floor of the junior nationals
1:50:07
and seeing you know literally hundreds if not 1000s of people
1:50:10
that are are doing just that wrestling's figured that out
1:50:13
yeah
1:50:14
you know we're gonna we're gonna be just fine
1:50:15
I agree
1:50:15
because we're gonna pass that that on to the next generation
1:50:19
and and so I mean, that's a cool thing about wrestling and in in
1:50:24
the organization.
1:50:25
Yeah, awesome. Last thing, what do we got to look forward to? U
1:50:28
20 threes, the senior level worlds. Yeah, you just got to be
1:50:32
super excited there. Olympic Games. We got three huge events
1:50:35
coming up here soon in the United States soil, and it's
1:50:38
it's pretty it's pretty amazing.
1:50:39
Well, intimidating in this environment, and you know, and
1:50:44
you think about you know why why would we host the U 23 World
1:50:48
Championships, and and you know if you look at it from a
1:50:52
business perspective, it doesn't make any sense, right? It's it's
1:50:56
expensive. It doesn't, you know, you're it's going to cost way
1:50:59
more than you know it's gonna we'll take in a lot less revenue
1:51:05
than we'll extend in expenses, but we feel it's really
1:51:10
important for us expose our country and our wrestling
1:51:14
community to international wrestling and and paint a vision
1:51:19
for how this works leading up to the Olympic Games, so when we
1:51:22
had the opportunity to host the, I mean, originally we wanted to
1:51:25
host the U 20 s, and then there was a a request by UWW to to
1:51:32
back away from the U 20 s because they had a deal
1:51:34
supposedly with Bahrain to host the seniors in the U 20 s, and
1:51:38
in the same year, and you know we got to looking at the team,
1:51:41
and thought, man, there there might be a lot of U 20 guys on
1:51:45
the U 23 team because we're I mean we're young, yeah, true,
1:51:48
and and girls, and so you know we we said okay, and then the
1:51:54
next curveball was they moved the date, and you know as as you
1:51:59
know I mean there's a lot of athletes that are on our senior
1:52:03
world team that are U23 eligible, and so I mean that
1:52:09
that messed with us a little bit because we thought it would take
1:52:12
away a lot of our elite athletes from the U23 World
1:52:17
Championships, and you know what we're finding out is those U23
1:52:21
senior world eligible athletes want to do both now. Whether
1:52:26
because the curveball was they moved the they moved it to a
1:52:31
week after in the fall of the U23s where it was you know
1:52:35
earlier in the year, but because of heat they they they wanted to
1:52:38
move it and you know we weren't happy about it. We didn't. We
1:52:42
didn't say, "Hey, that's okay with us. But you know, we we got
1:52:46
one vote, and so it's gonna. I mean, it's still a challenge
1:52:50
with the timing because you know, I I don't know when push
1:52:55
comes to shove. All of our you know senior number one athletes
1:53:00
that are U 23 are going to do it, but you know, and it and it
1:53:04
fell a little bit differently than than maybe we had thought.
1:53:09
So you know, we're we're going to get our stars to to to Vegas,
1:53:14
and you know, we we we we we do it for a couple of reasons. One
1:53:19
is we want to make sure that we're giving our athletes
1:53:23
opportunities to be successful, and we know for sure that
1:53:27
competing at home gives athletes an opportunity to be maybe a
1:53:31
little bit more successful. I mean, home ice is a is a thing
1:53:34
absolutely, and and gives us an opportunity to promote the the
1:53:39
international styles with within our country gives us an
1:53:42
opportunity to to train volunteers to participate in
1:53:47
these these international type world championships, Olympic
1:53:50
games, and you know we thought it was worth. Oh, we think it's
1:53:54
worth
1:53:54
it.
1:53:55
So you know, our obviously we want to competitively win for
1:53:59
sure. We want to raise the relevancy of wrestling and
1:54:02
expose international wrestling to to our to our community, and
1:54:08
also set a standard for the international federation of how
1:54:12
events should be hosted. And I mean that sounds a little bit
1:54:15
arrogant, probably, but you know it started in you know I think
1:54:20
1996. Most people said, "Hey, the best wrestling competition
1:54:24
ever hosted was the 96 Olympic Games, and and was awesome.
1:54:29
Yeah, and it was right. And and USA Wrestling deserves a lot of
1:54:32
credit for that because if you remember, it was in a in an
1:54:35
environment where the Atlanta Committee for the Olympic Games
1:54:39
didn't put a big priority on wrestling, and and we had
1:54:42
leadership and you know Jim Shear and I was able to serve as
1:54:46
competition manager for those games and you know Jim Shear
1:54:49
made it very clear early to me as the competition manager in
1:54:52
Atlanta that hey we're not going to let ACOG hamstring our
1:54:57
ability to host the best Olympic games ever and we. U.S.
1:55:00
Wrestling invested in those games and and made sure that the
1:55:04
experience was awesome, and it was, and and so we set the
1:55:09
standard for you know how wrestling should be presented,
1:55:14
and you know we've hosted world championships in the past.
1:55:18
That's been true. We've we've we've elevated. I know this
1:55:21
sounds really wickedly arrogant, but it's true. I mean, and
1:55:25
that's another reason why we're we're hosting these events is,
1:55:29
you know, we want to set a standard of elevating the the
1:55:34
the quality of the experience for the athletes and the fans.
1:55:37
And you know, our our sport hasn't done a good job of that
1:55:39
lately. I mean, you go to the, you know, the these world
1:55:42
championships and other countries, and you know they
1:55:46
yeah they have the lights and the mats and the you know
1:55:49
signage, but you know 2030 people in stands, yeah, and you
1:55:53
know we really feel like you know we we have a responsibility
1:55:58
and an obligation at least take a big swing at having you know
1:56:02
people come and and and watch and participate and you know
1:56:06
things like raff those those those promotions are helpful
1:56:10
because they're they're they're cracking the code on attendance
1:56:14
and getting people to to to care and then obviously so the U 23
1:56:18
is the first part of that the the senior worlds has different
1:56:23
value to us, more expensive, by the way. And I'll tell you a
1:56:28
little story about that. Maybe again a little business. And
1:56:31
when we hosted the game, those games in in in Vegas before, we
1:56:35
made a million dollar profit in profit. $1 million. Yeah, really
1:56:38
sold a million dollars in tickets. Did really well with
1:56:40
sponsorship and the the
1:56:41
World Championships in Vegas. Really, yeah,
1:56:44
and and where the the the financial driver comes is
1:56:49
there's a a fee that everyone that gets a credential has to
1:56:52
pay. It's $250 a day for three meals in a in a double occupancy
1:57:00
room. So we were able to in in when we were there before hosted
1:57:05
the event at the Orleans, and you know negotiated a really
1:57:09
really attractive room rate at the Orleans, and then the the
1:57:15
the buffet, which was I mean insanely cheap, yet it was the
1:57:22
best food athletes had ever experienced at a at a World
1:57:26
Championships, and so everything kind of fell fell together, and
1:57:30
and we were really profitable. Well, our our international
1:57:33
federation and their infinite wisdom saw those you know books
1:57:37
and and balance sheets and budgets and said, well, we need
1:57:42
to charge two and a half million for the rights fee now. So the
1:57:45
rights fee went, you know, it's went up. I mean, it's $2 million
1:57:49
more than it was. So I mean, I have a Wisconsin public
1:57:51
education, and you know, if there's a $2 million expense put
1:57:56
on top of an event where you made a million dollars, there's
1:58:00
some ground to make up, so I mean we're going to work hard
1:58:03
and and you know and you know to obviously do everything in our
1:58:08
power to make make it make it balance, but there's also a
1:58:12
commitment by our organization that have looked forward and
1:58:15
say, hey, these you know this is arguably the most important
1:58:19
three four year cycle in our history, and you know we can't
1:58:24
we can't be afraid of of you know challenges like you know
1:58:29
finances. Obviously, we it's important to to to stay focused
1:58:33
on that. But the other thing that in you know this is Captain
1:58:36
Obvious, but hosting the the the 27 World Championships is the
1:58:41
most significant qualifier for for LA, and when we hosted the
1:58:45
games in in '96, you know we had automatic or night.
1:58:49
We hosted the Olympic
1:58:50
Games in '96. We had automatic qualifiers. So there's and right
1:58:55
now there's just 16 slots.
1:58:57
Yeah,
1:58:57
and and so you know we have to take advantage of every single
1:59:02
opportunity because you know we've been blessed to be kind of
1:59:05
the leading nation, if you will, when it comes to qualifying
1:59:09
after you know qual. I mean, 96 and 2000, it was still
1:59:13
relatively easy to get qualified. It's not anymore, and
1:59:18
and you know we hear people talk all the time. Oh, you know, the
1:59:21
Olympic Games is not that hard to win a gold medal. Well, yeah,
1:59:25
there's 16 people in in the way. That's true.
1:59:28
Yeah,
1:59:29
but yeah, there's a lot to get to that 16. And so, I mean,
1:59:34
we're hosting those games with the with the you know motivation
1:59:38
that it's going to help us you know with qualifying, further
1:59:42
help us develop the team that will you know go to LA and and
1:59:45
host the wrestling competition, and then ultimately we think it
1:59:50
gives us another shot to promote and raise the relevancy of
1:59:54
wrestling, and so and then obviously in in in 90. I guess
2:00:01
220 28. It's right. We wanna we wanna win every single gold
2:00:06
medal, and you know we want wrestling to you know be
2:00:11
recognized for what it is. And you know a lot of people don't
2:00:14
know this that wrestling is the number three metal producing
2:00:20
sport for Team USA number three, only behind. There's no no sport
2:00:25
has won more Olympic medals than than wrestling, besides track
2:00:28
and field and swimming. Really, and I mean that's you know a lot
2:00:31
of people don't know that, and you know in 20 in 2000
2:00:35
limited opportunities, yeah, to win medals.
2:00:37
Yeah, and in it was funny in in 2013, you know, we're digging
2:00:42
into all the data to you know try to do what we could to
2:00:47
justify our participation, and then when we started looking at
2:00:52
you know how widely distributed medals are in the sport of
2:00:55
wrestling, I mean no no sport besides track and field gives
2:00:59
more Olympic medals to more different countries in
2:01:01
wrestling, and then you know we started. I wonder how we, where
2:01:06
do we line up within Team USA? And it was at the time we were
2:01:10
we were tied with diving ironically. Now my friends at
2:01:14
basketball are like, Rich, would you quit saying that because we
2:01:17
can only win one? And but it's true. I mean, wrestling is the
2:01:21
number three all-time medal-producing sport for Team
2:01:24
USA, and so I mean that's that's kind of cool, and I think
2:01:27
something a lot of people don't don't realize, but you know,
2:01:32
this U 23 World Championships, the Senior World Championships,
2:01:36
are all part of the equation to put us in a position to be
2:01:41
successful in 28, and you know we we have. I mean we're bullish
2:01:46
on our on our prospects, and you know certainly you know on the
2:01:51
Greco side we're really excited about the about the trajectory
2:01:55
that we're starting to build there, and you know obviously
2:01:59
want to continue with our with our men and women's freestyle
2:02:02
programs, and you know, just you know, thinking back on in Paris,
2:02:08
and you know, if you remember in in in Tokyo, I mean, we had that
2:02:14
great Olympics in Tokyo, and then the next cycle, you know,
2:02:21
Japan had had the best Olympics in in Paris, and we don't want
2:02:25
that to happen to us. I mean, we don't want to wait to Brisbane
2:02:28
to to to have our Olympics, and you know, we we're fixing to
2:02:31
have it in in in L.A. And I mean, we we I mean, feel really
2:02:38
confident that the pieces are in place. I mean, spend 10 minutes
2:02:43
out in this arena and and look at how further. I mean, we're
2:02:47
going to see it today. How how far along women's wrestling has
2:02:51
come.
2:02:51
It's crazy.
2:02:52
And you know, Greco and in freestyle here. I mean, it's
2:02:57
it's incredible the level that American wrestlers are at right
2:03:01
now, and you know that's back to what I said earlier:
2:03:04
infrastructure, and you know, state chapter infrastructure,
2:03:07
regional training center infrastructure, our school
2:03:10
college community focus on on on wrestling and the opportunities.
2:03:15
I mean, our our school college program is the envy of the
2:03:20
entire world, in terms of right, I mean, 10,000 high schools have
2:03:25
yeah, maybe 11,000 now, but have varsity high school wrestling
2:03:29
programs, and that's, I mean, that's significant. We should
2:03:34
dominate. We should
2:03:36
absolutely,
2:03:36
and and we're not gonna we're gonna apologize for dominating.
2:03:39
By the way, and you know we have a ways to go, and we can't you
2:03:43
know be arrogant about it or you know just assume it's going to
2:03:46
happen. But I mean, there's a there's a lot of reasons to
2:03:51
think that we are on the precipice of the golden age of
2:03:53
our sport.
2:03:54
I love it. That's that's I think we're going to cap it right
2:03:59
there. That's the best stuff right there, Rich Bender. Not
2:04:01
only thank you for your time on the podcast, but man, thank you
2:04:04
so much for for your leadership and and the infrastructure and
2:04:08
the the this the again overall just the overall leadership of
2:04:11
USA Wrestling. We're in a we're in a really really really good
2:04:14
time right now, and and you're a huge huge part of that.
2:04:18
Well, I'm blessed and honored and grateful for what you do,
2:04:21
and and grateful for what the sport means to to our society
2:04:25
and the impact that it has on countless kids.
2:04:28
Awesome. Well, thank you. This is a podcast for legends and
2:04:32
risk painter. Appreciate you, man. Yeah, legend. Thanks,
2:04:37
man.