Latest / Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast / BPS 472: Why Most Indie Films Fail Before Production Even Starts with Jenna Edwards

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BPS 472: Why Most Indie Films Fail Before Production Even Starts with Jenna Edwards · Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: You are listening to the IFH podcast Network. For more
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  Speaker 1: amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to ifahpodcastnetwork dot com.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number four seventy two.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: Your dream doesn't have an expiration date, Take a deep
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: breath and try again.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: KT Whitten broadcasting from a dark, windowless room in Hollywood
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  Speaker 1: when we really should be working on that next draft.
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  Speaker 1: It's the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the craft and
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  Speaker 1: business of screenwriting while teaching you how to make your
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  Speaker 1: screenplay bulletproof. And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast.
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: I am your humble host Alex Ferrari. Now.
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  Speaker 2: Today's show is sponsored by Bulletproof Script Coverage.
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  Speaker 2: Unlike other script coverage services, Bulletproof Script Coverage actually focuses
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  Speaker 2: on the kind of project you are in the goals
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  Speaker 2: to covermiscreenplay dot Com. Enjoy today's episode with guest host
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: Dave Bullis.
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: I have a guest who has been on Malcolm in
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: the Middle, she has been on Buffy, she has actually
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: been done a podcast herself. Now she's doing a lot
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: of really great stuff in the producing space with guests
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: Jenna Edwards. Jenna, how are you?
• 1:55
  Speaker 4: I'm great, how are you good?
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  Speaker 3: Thank you? You know, I was just reading your book
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: and that's actually really cool that you know, produced the
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: first feature with Hulu, and I definitely want to get
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: into that. But the first question I have for you
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: is is, you know, and I ask everyone this, and
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: that is Jenna, how did you find yourself in the
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: film industry? Meaning is this something you've always wanted to
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: do or is this something that you sort of just
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: found yourself in one day.
• 2:23
  Speaker 4: It's a great question. I have a two part answer
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: to that. I always knew I wanted to be in
• 2:29
  Speaker 4: the entertainment industry. I truth be told, came out to
• 2:33
  Speaker 4: LA to be an actor in television and got into
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: film producing. Kicking and screaming, so not really by choice,
• 2:42
  Speaker 4: but I love it and I'm so grateful to my
• 2:47
  Speaker 4: friend who kind of drug me into it. And that's
• 2:51
  Speaker 4: really the answer to that question. Kicking and screaming and
• 2:54
  Speaker 4: joy fully so.
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  Speaker 3: Well usually the kicking and screaming part I can relate to,
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  Speaker 3: but joyfully so not so much.
• 3:01
  Speaker 4: But no, I'm just kidding.
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: But yeah, you know, I did look at your IMDb
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  Speaker 3: and I did see you have some really awesome credits,
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: you know, as an actress. So that's why I when
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: I saw that, I said, wow, said Jenna either has
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: tremendous connections or luck or she you know, she started
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: off as an actress. And that's exactly what happened, because
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: you know, you were on a on an episode of
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: Unsolved Mysteries. You were on Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Yes,
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: Malcolm in the Middle, and I mean right there, I
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: mean those two shows right there are not even counting
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: Unsolved Mysteries. Those two shows, right, there are cult shows that,
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: especially Buffy.
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: I still feel like it wasn't me. So I'm like, wow,
• 3:43
  Speaker 4: that was really cool. How lucky am I? Yes?
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: So, so, so you know, how did you know, you know,
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: you get the job on Buffy. Did you just go
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: to a casting call or did you actually you know,
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: know somebody who just you know, said hey, you know, Jenna,
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  Speaker 3: want you come to this, to this casting call and
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: you know what's see what happens? I mean, So, so,
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: how did you get on the show of Buffy?
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  Speaker 4: Sure, I well, it's all started with Unsolved Mysteries. Actually,
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  Speaker 4: I moved to Los Angeles and my neighbor was an
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: actor as well, and he was here longer than me,
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: and so he introduced me to his manager, and his
• 4:19
  Speaker 4: manager got me the audition for Unsolved Mysteries and it
• 4:22
  Speaker 4: was I hate saying this so much because actors hate
• 4:24
  Speaker 4: me and when I do. Unsolved Mysteries was my first
• 4:27
  Speaker 4: audition in Los Angeles and I booked it and I
• 4:29
  Speaker 4: got my SAG card and like people were like really,
• 4:34
  Speaker 4: I'm like yes, but I did that show and then
• 4:39
  Speaker 4: I was able to sign with this really great agent
• 4:45
  Speaker 4: because I had my SAGE card and I did a showcase,
• 4:48
  Speaker 4: not an actor showcase traditional in the traditional format, but
• 4:51
  Speaker 4: I was in a class that had a showcase at
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: the end, and I met this agent and we met
• 4:58
  Speaker 4: and we got along really great, and I actually started
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: working for him, which I strongly suggest every actor get
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: their butts into agencies, management companies and casting and see
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: if they can intern or be an assistant, because you
• 5:12
  Speaker 4: learn so much about the other side of the table
• 5:16
  Speaker 4: that I think makes actors much more hireable. But I digress.
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  Speaker 4: So then I had an auditioned for Buffy the year
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  Speaker 4: before it's its last season, and you guys, literally I
• 5:33
  Speaker 4: was the day before I got this phone call. I
• 5:36
  Speaker 4: was like, that's it. I'm done acting so hard. I'm
• 5:39
  Speaker 4: gonna leave you though, And it was more like just
• 5:42
  Speaker 4: a release of not caring so much about the outcome
• 5:46
  Speaker 4: of certain things, like when when we're acting we get
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: in our heads and we're like so tied to getting
• 5:51
  Speaker 4: this one role. And I literally the next day woke
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: up and my agent was like, you booked Buffy. And
• 5:59
  Speaker 4: I was like, I don't understand the words that you're saying,
• 6:02
  Speaker 4: because I haven't auditioned for Buffy in over a year
• 6:05
  Speaker 4: and so I feel like they've made a mistake. He's like, no,
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  Speaker 4: they really liked your audition the year before, and I
• 6:13
  Speaker 4: was like, whooh, Buffy. And then I got the script
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: and it was just this one little seven second scene.
• 6:20
  Speaker 4: And I say that with all the respect in the world,
• 6:23
  Speaker 4: but at the time, you know, as an actor, you're like, Oh,
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: they hired me because I can I'm sturdy and I
• 6:28
  Speaker 4: can block a punch. That's literally why I got cast
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: in that role. But then I've had so many amazing
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: experiences with it because that role. I don't know if
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: you saw it Dave's, but it was the last episode
• 6:42
  Speaker 4: of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and she was doing this
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: amazing speech talking about how, like some guys decided that
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: there would be only one Slayer and we're deciding to
• 6:56
  Speaker 4: change all of that, and so basically anyone who would
• 6:59
  Speaker 4: be a Slayer is now going to be a Slayer
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: because we need everyone to be empowered. And during that montage,
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: I blocked a punch and rose in the frame and
• 7:09
  Speaker 4: inherited her power. And that seven seconds has literally had
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: a huge impact on so many people that I've met
• 7:17
  Speaker 4: that are fans of the show. I had one woman
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: say that it inspired her or empowered her to leave
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: her abusive boyfriend. And so it was this true testament
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: of there are no small rules and you know, you
• 7:32
  Speaker 4: just have to be grateful for every opportunity that you get.
• 7:36
  Speaker 4: And now I get to say I'm a slayer. It's
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: pretty freaking rad.
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: You know, I agree with you completely, you know, because
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: I have seen, you know, some actors. They'll get a
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: you know, a role in a part in a movie
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: or TV show, and they sort of don't like the
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: fact that they're not the star, right And and I've
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: to you know, I've had friends who are actors coming
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: to me and they say, I don't want to be
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: in this in this film because abou blah blah blah.
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: And I said, are you kidding me? I said, you
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: don't mean actors would kill for this because they could
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: turn that into something else, because you know what it means.
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: It means you you can, you know, you take this
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: this part, no matter how big or small it is,
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: and you use that to parlay into something else. And
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: I don't mean that in a bad way, like for
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: you know, but I mean that in a good way
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  Speaker 3: because you know, you know, look to saying Jenna in Hollywood,
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: you're only as good as your last project. Absolutely, And
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: that way you could say, hey, well, hey, you know,
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: I'm sure when you went all auditions, they probably you probably said, Hey,
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: I was in Buffy. You know, I I've done you know,
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: I you know, I was the girl in Buffy. You know.
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: And again the fans that resonated with them, Yeah, because
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: like I said, that's a cult show and I mean,
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: you know that has a pretty rabid fan base.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, it does, and they're so amazing. It's it's fascinating,
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  Speaker 4: you know. That was my experience with there are no
• 8:49
  Speaker 4: small roles. You know, that's saying there are no small roles,
• 8:51
  Speaker 4: only small actors. And then the Malcolm story. I have
• 8:55
  Speaker 4: stories for everything. It's so funny. The Malcolm story was
• 8:58
  Speaker 4: like my realization of your never auditioning for one role,
• 9:02
  Speaker 4: You're auditioning for any role. Because I went in there
• 9:05
  Speaker 4: the audition was for one line in the show. And
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: Brian Cranston, who is like one of the coolest people
• 9:14
  Speaker 4: you guys, he directed the episode that I was in,
• 9:17
  Speaker 4: and it was so fascinating to watch him go from
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: how the goofy dad to director. He's just brilliant and
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: so anyway, I went into the audition to audition for
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: one line, and I ended up booking a whole week's
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: worth of work. Like they were like, oh, you need
• 9:34
  Speaker 4: to read for this other role, and I booked the
• 9:36
  Speaker 4: bigger role because I just wasn't attached, like I said
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: in the beginning, to the outcome of what was going
• 9:42
  Speaker 4: to happen. I was just in there so excited to
• 9:44
  Speaker 4: be auditioning again because I had I had taken off
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: quite a bit of time from it, and so it's fascinating.
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: It's fascinating the experiences you get to have when you
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: just open yourself up to all the possibilities.
• 10:02
  Speaker 5: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 10:08
  Speaker 5: and now back to the show.
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I concur and I you know, before I I
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: I continue on, I'm wanting to ask you. I just
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: want to take one step back, very quickly, tell you,
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: tell you a funny story, real quick, awesome because this
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: is you know, because just as we were tling about
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: unsolved mysteries and Buffy, I had I had a short
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: little story I wanted to tell you, and I think
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: we'll get a kick out of this. Uh, one time
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: you know, I really don't act, you know, I'm more
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: of the behind the camera type of guy. And I
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: had a friend of mine who was he owns his
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: own production company, and he said to me, Hey, why
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: don't you come to this casting call we're doing. We're
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: doing it for this uh this barbecue thing. It's going
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: to be a national wide commercial. Uh. You know, he's like,
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: you know, and he's like, I just have a feeling.
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: I just want to see you in this in try
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: out for this role. Cool. And I said to him, Okay, sure,
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: you know, I'll come, you know, I said, you know,
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: if you want me to, I'll come out. So I
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: went in and you know, there's there's the room. You know,
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: there's the uh it's not a green room, but you see
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: it's the room. Everyone you know, all the actors and everyone.
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: You check in and you sit down, you know, everyone's
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: you know, reading their lines. And well, as I'm sitting there,
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: somebody comes out, uh I think it was his assistant
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: and he recognized me. Well, then everybody comes out, like
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: the from from casting like you know what I mean,
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: like they were in there doing the auditions. So he so,
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: you know, three people come out and they're all shaking
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: my hand like all, good to see you here, Dave.
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: And the funny thing is like some of the actors
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: were giving me a look like who is this guy?
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: And how the hell is did we even audition? Does
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: this guy already have the role? I was like, I
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: was trying to explain to everybody, like, look, I'm not
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: anybody famous, I just know the know the product guy
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: who runs the production company. And I swear I was like,
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: there's not a shot in how I'm getting this.
• 11:55
  Speaker 6: Uh.
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: They ended up not giving it to me anyway. But
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: you know, it was funny too because afterwards they were like, Dave,
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: after these auditions, why don't we go out and grab
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: some lunch? And I was like, yeah, sure, why not? So, uh,
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: it's just funny because it's really like you know who
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: you know? But that just was like overkill because you know,
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: it just was a funny, funny little story. But I
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: thought you'd get a kick out of it because because
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: it just it seems so redundant. But but but you know,
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: uh so I didn't. I didn't get the roll though,
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: but uh, but he just reminded what you were saying.
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: But uh, but.
• 12:25
  Speaker 6: Uh, why yeah, I'm glad that you know, an actor
• 12:31
  Speaker 6: who was probably you know, trying for years that you know,
• 12:33
  Speaker 6: uh at their craft got the got the commercial spot
• 12:36
  Speaker 6: and not me just because I'm friends with somebody.
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: But but you know, so you you know, you were
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: on Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Now did Josh Whedon direct
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: that episode?
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: He did?
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: So what was it like working.
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: With old trip out about it?
• 12:51
  Speaker 6: He?
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: So, first of all, because I had an auditioned. I
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: mean I was really young when I booked that and
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: and I had an auditioned for that specific role. I
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: literally walked around all day on set thinking they had
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: the wrong person and that the minute I meet Joss,
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: He's going to be like, who the heck is this
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: sick that I don't know? It didn't happen that way,
• 13:13
  Speaker 4: thank goodness. But you know, but Buffy was my first
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: experience on a really like big production, and it was
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: fascinating to me. First of all, I'm going to tell
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: you two stories about Joss Whedon because it just to
• 13:30
  Speaker 4: me tells the story of who he is as a person.
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: The first is, you know, my role was seven seconds,
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: but I was being abused. That's the whole point of it.
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: Like I was able to finally stand up for myself
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: because I inherited Buffy's powers and there was no way
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: anyone was going to hit me again. But because I
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: was being abused, I talked to him and I said,
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: you know, should I be crying or not? That was
• 13:57
  Speaker 4: my question. And not only did he so let me
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: back up. Most directors would probably say no and then
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: walk away and continue to do their thing. Not only
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: did he stop and look at me and acknowledge that
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: I had a question, he explained to me why I
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: shouldn't be crying, and he was like, no, because it's
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: too much for the audience in that small amount of time.
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: And as an actor, when you can get a why
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: to the answer, it makes it so much easier for
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: you to accept it and internalize it and become the
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: character even more. You know, it's a different way of
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: asking what's my quote motivation? But the fact that he
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: was like so amazing, you know, to stop and give
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: me that attention or that time that I needed was
• 14:48
  Speaker 4: just it was for me, just incredible. And then so
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: I get done and little trivia here, I was the
• 14:54
  Speaker 4: last scene ever shot on the show, and so when
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: they called, you know, cut, then they said, that's a wrap.
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: It was literally the last time that that crew was
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: going to hear that in this production. And so when
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: they did it, you know, people started crying and they
• 15:12
  Speaker 4: were hugging, and here I am all awkward, like I
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: have known you people for a total of maybe two
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: minutes now, and I'm gonna go like I like, okay,
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: I'm gonna let you guys have your moment, and I'm
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: gonna leave. And my set was in this giant warehouse
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: and my my role was actually quote trailer girl because
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: I was in the trailer. That was my set. And
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: so I'm in this like big airstream trailer and I
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: stepped down and I go to walk across this giant
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: warehouse to leave, and all of a sudden, I hear
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: Jana Wait, like really loud, and I'm like, oh, crap,
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: do I have you know, a microphone? But no, I wasn't,
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: you know, there was no sound and I'm having all
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: these thoughts running through my head. And I turn around
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: and here's Joss Whedon sprinting across this warehouse and he's like,
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: I just wanted to say thank you. And that was like,
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: you realize you're Josh Whedon, right, like, you realize that
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: you just let me be in your amazing show Buffy,
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: and you're now thinking me. I was like, shut up,
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: I can't even handle you. And then we took pictures
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: and it was just really great. It was such a
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: fun experience. But that's the kind of guy he is,
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: you know, He's just he's just a good guy. And
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: I was so grateful to have that experience.
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: You know. And that's amazing to hear because I've always
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: wanted to meet jossyah. But and I've always I'm always
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: interested because when people who actually worked with him, you
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: know what he's like, his style, everything, I I've always
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: heard nothing but good things. By the way, So because
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: I've never met anybody who has anything bad to say
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: about Joss.
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: I can't even imagine somebody having something bad to say.
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: I just but again, that's my experience. So even if
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: you did have a bad experience, I would ignore it
• 16:56
  Speaker 4: because I love mine so much.
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: Uh So, hopefully one day I will meet Joss and
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: I won't have a bad experience because because if I
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: if I did have a big experience, I'd have to
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: call you back and be like Jenna, I had a
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: big experience with them, and then.
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: I would have to like figure out how to get
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: a hold of him again and be like, you need
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: to apologize because nobody in the world and think you
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: are not the most wonderful human.
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: Uh you know, so you know, after you know Buffy
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: the Vampire Slayer, you did take a break. Yes, now
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: now I know the story about what happened. Now do
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: you want to, you know, sort of fill in what
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: happened between you know Buffy and when you went back
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: to work as an actor.
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: I'm a total open book, but it opens up a
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: can of worms. Are you ready?
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: I am? I am ready, Jae.
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: So Buffy aired and I thought, as an actor, my
• 17:47
  Speaker 4: whole life was about to change and it was going
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: to be great, and my career is going to take
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: off and all of this stuff was going to happen.
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: Mind you, this was before social media. I believe that
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: if it's social media existed, it probably would have taken off,
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: and then things might have been even more complicated than
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: they were. My life did change, It changed dramatically, but
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: it wasn't because of acting. It was because I was
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: on a break at work and a man drove through
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: the farmer's market in Santa Monica and killed ten people
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: and injured over sixty of us. And he hit me,
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: they say, at about sixty miles an hour. And I
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: suffered severe post traumatic stress disorder, and I couldn't read,
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: and I started when I talked, and I forgot basic words,
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: and I didn't sleep for eight months, and I ended
• 18:41
  Speaker 4: up in the psych word where I thought my whole life,
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: let alone my career, was completely over and I just didn't. Yeah,
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: it was very devastating and obviously life altering, and it
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: took me three and a half years before I could
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: work again, and over seven years before I didn't have
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: a panic attack or a flashback.
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: So how did you, you know, start to sort of
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: you know, uh, I guess you know, overcome all this.
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: You know, we're you know, I'm sure you know. There
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: had to be you know, building blocks, you know what
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: I mean, like step by step. So so where how
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: did you start your your road to recovery?
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: Well, it was, first of all, I my my family
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: has a history of addiction, and so I I refused
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: medication because I was so afraid that I would become
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: an addict. It nearly killed me because the my chemicals
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: were so off that I needed that medication to regulate
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: the chemistry and my body and be able to sleep
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: and become like I always say, I had a mental injury,
• 19:48
  Speaker 4: not a not a head injury or a brain injury,
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: but a mental one where just like things weren't being.
• 19:55
  Speaker 5: Processed, we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 20:03
  Speaker 5: and now back to the show.
• 20:06
  Speaker 4: The same way. And so I had to accept that
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: I would be on medication, but I was very clear
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: with my doctors that I wasn't going to be on
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: this medication for forever. So we needed to have a
• 20:19
  Speaker 4: full plan in place, and I needed to see that
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: plan before it even before I would do anything. And
• 20:27
  Speaker 4: then my road to recovery really started when I accepted
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: that I needed more help than I could get outside
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: of a hospital because I was trying to get the
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: chemicals regulated at home, and it was a really scary
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: process because some of them were affecting me in ways
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: that they weren't supposed to be, and on top of
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: the people dying in my head every time I closed
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: my eyes, I was also really scared of what the
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: medication was doing, and so I checked myself into this
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: pschord after a really horrific episode with the medication I
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: don't I won't get into that. But while I was
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: in the hospital, my recovery started, I truly believe, because
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: Drew Barrymore was sharing her story at the time. And
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: what I mean by that is Drew had a history
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: with addiction, as we most of us know, and at
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: the time there were all of these articles coming out
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: about her coming back into her career and what she
• 21:34
  Speaker 4: was having to do and all of that, and even
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: though I couldn't read and process all of them, I
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: was like, this woman's an inspiration. And so in my
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: hospital room, I literally put up all these pictures of
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: Drew Barrymore, just remembering her story and remembering how you know,
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: people have the ability to come back from things that
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: they don't think they can come back from. And not
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: only did that experience kind of put PerPell me towards
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: recovery on my own, it also is a really big
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: catalyst for what I believe part of my purpose on
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: Earth is, which is sharing, Like it's so important to
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: share not just your triumphs, but your struggles so that
• 22:18
  Speaker 4: people that are struggling can see what it looks like
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: when you're done. You know when you're done struggling with
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: whatever you're struggling with. And I also attribute you probably
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: are thinking of this if you've heard any of my
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: interviews Dave. But I attribute Alias a lot to saving
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: my life, and everybody's like, really Alias, Yes, Alias, listen
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: to me, Like Alias is the best show. I think
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: it's the best show ever made. And when I got
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: out of the hospital, they said, you have to create
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: a routine for yourself in order to kind of Pavolonian
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: train your brain to go to sleep. And so at
• 23:03
  Speaker 4: the time, Alias was my favorite show. So I literally
• 23:06
  Speaker 4: watched an episode every night before I went to bed,
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: and it when I would watch it, it would trained
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: my brain to start to get sleepy and I started
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: to regulate my sleep and I, you know, recovered. And
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: I never thought that would happen. While it was happening,
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: I thought this was going to be my life forever.
• 23:26
  Speaker 4: And so when I say that Alias saved my life,
• 23:28
  Speaker 4: I'm not kidding.
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: So have you ever met anyone from Alias to tell
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: tell mister, but I kid you not.
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: If I do, I'm gonna look like the biggest nerd, Like,
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: how do you even see that? To someone? I'm sure,
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: JJ Abrams wasn't thinking I'm going to create this awesome
• 23:47
  Speaker 4: show that's gonna save someone's life. Like, what do you
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: even say? Oh? JJ, thanks, No, But if you know anybody,
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: I'm happy to tell them and thank them profusely for
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: doing the work that they did.
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: I don't know anybody off hand, but if I ever
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: stumble upon anybody, I promise I'll tell them. You have
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: to talk to Jenna.
• 24:11
  Speaker 4: Oh thanks, that would be awesome. I would be so excited.
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: I'd probably be I look at me, I'm even nerding
• 24:20
  Speaker 4: out now, like a grown woman is nerding out so
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: bad right now at the idea of meeting those guys.
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And I mean you never know too because of
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: there you know, there are cons, you know, the comic cons,
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: and then already know so you never know where you
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: into them.
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I know, I've always wanted to go to the
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: cons and stuff, but because the crash happened right after Buffy,
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: I feel like it's been way too long. But who knows.
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: You know what the thing I've learned in my life
• 24:49
  Speaker 4: is you just never know.
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, very true, never know. Because there was actually a
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: monster Mania was this past weekend and had a Buffy.
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: Uh wait, yeah, I think that. I'm sorry, they're enough
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: Buffy reunion coming up, that's what it is, because I
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: actually saw it. Yeah, because it's but it's it's the
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: Buffy the movie and so with Christy Swanson. So uh so,
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: I I but I know they do Buffy the TV
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: show as well. I know, I've I mean, I've seen
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: him all, you know, all the time. That's awesome, But
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: I mean, I mean again, you never know, because I
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: mean there's always so many people at these cons. Now
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: they just keep getting, you know, more and more. And
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: I mean, so you know, you know, as we continue
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: your story, you know, you were able to get you
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: got on the road recovery. You're able, you know, to
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: get back to you know, to doing what you wanted
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: to do, and you got the job you know, on
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: Malcolm in the Middle. So you know, do you feel
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: I know, this is you know, an interesting just a
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: question from an actor's standpoint. Do you feel Brian Cranston
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: understood actors in a different way because he is an actor?
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: Oh? I'm sure, I'm sure he. I can't imagine him
• 26:00
  Speaker 4: not understanding actors in a different way just because of
• 26:04
  Speaker 4: who he is and how he's trained, because he's a
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: very well trained actor. You know. Guess I was just
• 26:16
  Speaker 4: really excited to be on the show and watch him
• 26:18
  Speaker 4: that I didn't even think about how he interacted with
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: me or the other actors. It was just more my
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: fascination with his ability to switch so efficiently from his
• 26:31
  Speaker 4: character to who he is as a director. That I
• 26:35
  Speaker 4: that's all I remember. I do remember one thing, and
• 26:39
  Speaker 4: I'll tell I'll tell all the actors listening this. So
• 26:42
  Speaker 4: I had an insecure actor moment. We all have them, right,
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: And I went up to Brian and I said, you know,
• 26:50
  Speaker 4: is that what you wanted? And he was so gracious
• 26:54
  Speaker 4: and said, look, I'm gonna give you a piece of advice.
• 26:56
  Speaker 4: He goes, as a director, if I don't like something,
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: I will tell you. Otherwise, just as an actor, assume
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: you're doing brilliant. And I was like, that's amazing. And
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: now as a producer and watching the directors that I
• 27:11
  Speaker 4: work with direct actors, I can totally see that. So
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: any actor listening, you know, you got to kind of
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: hide that insecure actor moment and really understand that if
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: you are not getting notes, then you're doing it perfectly.
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: That is an excellent piece of advice. Absolutely excellent piece
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: of advice. I think that does that does well too
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: if you're directing a like a like a scene where
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: it includes a lot of actors, like you're like three
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: four five actors, because you know, you know what I mean,
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: it's hard to give adjustments to that. You know what
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: I mean?
• 27:44
  Speaker 4: It was it was a big crowd kind of scene
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: that I was asking. Actually, now that you say that,
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: I'm riding your mind. I know, I love it. I
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: love it. But yeah, I'm thenk so lucky to be
• 27:57
  Speaker 4: able to work with people who are really great at
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: giving advice, and I like, I'm so grateful to that,
• 28:04
  Speaker 4: you know. I think that's why I've been able to
• 28:06
  Speaker 4: kind of move my career forward whenever I choose to,
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: because I get to be surrounded by incredible people. You know,
• 28:16
  Speaker 4: so many so many people think that they're just all
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: sharks in Hollywood, and I just it's not my experience.
• 28:24
  Speaker 4: My experience has been just gracious and wonderful, creative, collaborative people,
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: and Brian is absolutely at the top of that list.
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, that's something I've found too. I mean,
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: not not to deviate too much from this conversation. But
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: you know, I have a friend of mine who just
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: posted online. He's a screenwriter and he's been trying to
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: be a screenwriter for like twenty years. He can't. He
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: can't get anybody to be his ag or manager. And
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: when you see what he posts on Facebook, it's like,
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: this is probably the reason. Very angry, very bitter, very condescending.
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: And I'm sitting there thinking to myself, I wonder how
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: he talks to ages and managers. I wonder if he
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: probably just walks in there and goes, you know what,
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: I'm the biggest deal in this town. You just don't
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: recognize my brilliance, you know, and you should be signing,
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: you should be begging to sign me. I kind of
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: have a feeling that's what he does when he either
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: you know, call mix of email, you know, sends an
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: email or greed letter or anything like that. And I mean,
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: you know, I've had Yeah. Well I'm sorry, No, I.
• 29:31
  Speaker 4: Love talking about this subject because so thank you for
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: bringing it up. And I'll let you continue, and then
• 29:37
  Speaker 4: I have I have stuff to add.
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: Oh, I was just gonna say, because I have one
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: other person and they actually their production deal fell apart
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: with a producer, and he actually made a post calling
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: the producer out saying, I mean, oh, I mean just
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: just going on and on, and I'm sinking with sitting
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: there thinking to myself, who would want to work with
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: you after making a post like that?
• 29:57
  Speaker 5: Oh my gosh, be right back after a word from
• 30:01
  Speaker 5: our sponsor and now back to the show.
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And that's exactly it, right. So I always this
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: is mostly to actors, but really any crew. My whole
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: thing is And if you could see me now, I'm
• 30:18
  Speaker 4: raising my hand in one hand. You have to be
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: really good at your job. But guess what, guys, there
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: are a lot of people really good at their jobs.
• 30:27
  Speaker 4: I mean, I hate to say it, especially here, like
• 30:30
  Speaker 4: we're in Los Angeles where the cream of the crop come,
• 30:35
  Speaker 4: you know, to try and make it so it's like
• 30:37
  Speaker 4: you've got to be not only really good at your job,
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: but on the other hand, you have to be really
• 30:42
  Speaker 4: easy to work with. And I'm not saying you have
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: to be a doormat that's not easy to work with,
• 30:48
  Speaker 4: but you have to be like my litmus test is
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: can you do your job? And can I spend thirty
• 30:55
  Speaker 4: days in the middle of a cornfield in Nebraska without
• 30:58
  Speaker 4: wanting to kill you.
• 30:59
  Speaker 7: That's literally how I choose or how I go through
• 31:04
  Speaker 7: the actors because and crew, because that's really what happens
• 31:09
  Speaker 7: like we shot.
• 31:10
  Speaker 4: You know, I've shot several movies in the middle of Cornfield, Nebraska,
• 31:14
  Speaker 4: which is hard work. And you don't have all of
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: the luxuries and available items that you might need when
• 31:24
  Speaker 4: you're shooting in Los Angeles. So you've got to be
• 31:27
  Speaker 4: able to roll with the punches and still do a
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: great job and be fun. And we have to be
• 31:31
  Speaker 4: able to laugh. And people always talk about how much
• 31:35
  Speaker 4: nepotism there is in Hollywood, But here's the way I
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: look at it. I want to work with my friends,
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: you know. So I want my friends to be really
• 31:43
  Speaker 4: good at their jobs so that I can justify working
• 31:46
  Speaker 4: with them because I trust them. You know, my reputation
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: is on the line when I hire someone or when
• 31:54
  Speaker 4: I cast someone. And if you're going to make life
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: hard for everybody on my team, then they're gonna come
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: to me and they're gonna be like, what the f
• 32:03
  Speaker 4: did you do? And I'm gonna have to justify it. So,
• 32:07
  Speaker 4: you know, you've got to be gracious and understand everybody's position.
• 32:11
  Speaker 4: And that person that posted that thing about the producer
• 32:14
  Speaker 4: and the deal falling through. I mean, I don't know
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: the details, but I've had deals fall through that I've
• 32:21
  Speaker 4: worked tirelessly on and so if somebody was gonna call
• 32:25
  Speaker 4: me out on it, it would be just like, first
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: of all untrue, because there's no way I would go
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: into a project without wanting to actually make it happen.
• 32:35
  Speaker 4: And second of all, like it just shows to me
• 32:38
  Speaker 4: that that person making that post is amateur and doesn't
• 32:41
  Speaker 4: understand the process. And so you've got to be just
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: careful about, you know, showing your hurt feelings because the
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: producer's probably hurt just as much. You know, they put
• 32:55
  Speaker 4: they work tirelessly to get these these deals together, and
• 32:59
  Speaker 4: a lot of times they work tirelessly for free to
• 33:02
  Speaker 4: get the deals together, and then you know, to have
• 33:05
  Speaker 4: their reputation drug through the mud because something didn't happen.
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: It's just not fair, yeah, I And you know this,
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: this screenwriter, there were two diferent screenwriters, and both of them,
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: you know, always complain about not being able to find money,
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: and especially the one and the other one usually complains
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: but not being able to find representation. And I always
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: go back to I don't think anybody wants to work
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: with you because they can tell that you are going
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: to be a huge pain in the air.
• 33:32
  Speaker 4: Yes, no, it's true. Well and desperate. I mean, I
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: hate to say it, but I'm sure everybody's heard like
• 33:38
  Speaker 4: you can smell desperation. And this goes to pretty much
• 33:44
  Speaker 4: anybody but writers and actors especially, which is such a
• 33:48
  Speaker 4: great segue into one of my missions, which is empowering
• 33:53
  Speaker 4: people who feel disempowered in this industry. That writer does
• 33:57
  Speaker 4: not need representation. It is tooenty sixteen. If he really
• 34:03
  Speaker 4: wanted to be a screenwriter, he would figure out how
• 34:06
  Speaker 4: to get his movie made without an agent, you know
• 34:12
  Speaker 4: what I again, And so it's it's almost like this
• 34:15
  Speaker 4: gut check for certain people. Where do you want to
• 34:20
  Speaker 4: Do you want to write because you love to write,
• 34:22
  Speaker 4: or do you want to have a career in writing?
• 34:25
  Speaker 4: Because they're very different. You know, one leads into the other.
• 34:29
  Speaker 4: But the idea of having a career means that you
• 34:32
  Speaker 4: have to treat it like a business. And if you're
• 34:34
  Speaker 4: going to treat it like a business, then you're going
• 34:36
  Speaker 4: to get off your butt and you're going to figure
• 34:38
  Speaker 4: out how to get your writing scene, whether it's by
• 34:42
  Speaker 4: an agent, whether it's by other writers. But more the
• 34:46
  Speaker 4: way that I would suggest is go out and find
• 34:48
  Speaker 4: a producer that you do work well with, and get
• 34:52
  Speaker 4: your project made, even if it's a short film, so
• 34:55
  Speaker 4: that you can show people what you've got instead of
• 35:00
  Speaker 4: counting on them to discover. It's the difference between creating
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: your career and hoping to be discovered. And I feel
• 35:07
  Speaker 4: like it's the same with writers and actors and creative
• 35:11
  Speaker 4: people in general, because nowadays you can't you know. I
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: always used to say this when we were shooting April Showers,
• 35:17
  Speaker 4: which was like two thousand and eight, you guys, so
• 35:20
  Speaker 4: it's way before social media was what it is now.
• 35:23
  Speaker 4: But I would always say, you can't talk about making
• 35:25
  Speaker 4: a movie anymore because some kid with their iPhone is
• 35:27
  Speaker 4: recording it, making it into some video and putting it
• 35:30
  Speaker 4: up online and making millions. Like, you have to actually
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: make your content now. And if you've got a big,
• 35:38
  Speaker 4: giant script that is going to be, you know, the
• 35:40
  Speaker 4: next Transformers, then obviously you need to write something smaller
• 35:44
  Speaker 4: that can be made as a calling card.
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, and I understand Plague what you mean,
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: You know, us back when I was crowdfunding, you know,
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: two thousand or nine, twenty ten, you know, nobody knew
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: what indigogo wants. I had to explain to so many
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: people what Indigo was, and they were like, is this legal?
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: Is this well? And I said, yes, yes, it's legal,
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: and I got I had people send me messages saying
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: that it was, uh, you know, you can't actually ask
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: for donations unless you are for you know, a charity. Yeah, yeah,
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: and he says, he said, you can't. You can't unless
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: you're that. He goes, and you can't ask for you know,
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: uh money unless you know you're actually having either another
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: actually a corporation yourself. He goes, so crowdfunding is that
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: you know, I don't know what this is and blah
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: blah blah, And I said, listen, I said, I was,
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: so I sent back this email explain what it was.
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: I had a producer on the project, one of my
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: projects go. He looked at it, and he goes, I
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: think we need to make it clear that they're not
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: buying investment in the movie. I said, it's clear on
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: the website. I said, it's clear as a bell. I said,
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: I don't know what more I can do, and every
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: every person that I would get aboard the project was
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: was like a baffled about crowdfunding. And you know, I
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: hope to craft on another project by the end of
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: the year, you know, but I actually want to. I'm
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: actually gonna go with any goog I mean, with Kickstarter
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: this time. But but you know, I I I think
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: that I mean, this is a problem I find myself.
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: And I don't know, you know, maybe this is something
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: that you find with a lot of your clients, is
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: that I tend to write things that either are too
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: expensive because there's a location that I can't get, or
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: I require some kind of you know, explosure or whatever.
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: And on the flip side, you know, when I try
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: to write stuff that's more low key, you know, it's
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: just it doesn't have exactly that's my problem. Or maybe
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: it's a little too offbeat, is what I'm trying to say,
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: because you know what I mean, like it's almost like
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: an indie film that if if somebody read the script
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: without having like David Lynch or somebody else you know,
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: on the on the cover, or you know what I mean,
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: like somebody who can make a film for you know,
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: four or five, six, million dollars and you know, but
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: but you know it's going to be you know, it's
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: in a person who who's who knows what they're doing,
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: you know what, a person who because because you know
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: what I mean that they don't want to spend five
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: million dollars on some on somebody new, and you know
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: they're going to say, well, what's the biggest budget you
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: know you're work with? Do you have a producing team?
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: And you know what I mean? And they don't want
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: to at that point, I mean, and I still don't.
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: I still don't have a producing team that comes with me,
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: you know what I mean. It's just usually just me,
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: just little old me Jenna. And they usually are like, hey, kid,
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: you know you're you know, you got talent, but call
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: us back when you have you know, when you have
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: some more stuff on your belt.
• 38:31
  Speaker 4: Right, Well, here's the way that if you want, I
• 38:34
  Speaker 4: would advise you specifically regarding that is, create yourself a
• 38:39
  Speaker 4: business plan. Like so many times I talk to filmmakers
• 38:42
  Speaker 4: and they have no idea what their ultimate goals are
• 38:46
  Speaker 4: and how and what the steps are to get there.
• 38:48
  Speaker 4: So if you're if you're wanting to create movies that
• 38:52
  Speaker 4: are David Lynch ask, then you make yourself the new
• 38:55
  Speaker 4: David Lynch, and how do you do that? You say, Okay,
• 38:58
  Speaker 4: my ultimate David Lynch movie, David Lynch esque movie is
• 39:02
  Speaker 4: this project? What other smaller projects do I have or
• 39:06
  Speaker 4: can I write that will cost maybe, you know, under
• 39:10
  Speaker 4: half a million. Let's say that I can make in
• 39:15
  Speaker 4: order to show people what I've got so that they'll
• 39:18
  Speaker 4: give me five million for my ultimate project. And so
• 39:23
  Speaker 4: that during the making of let's say there's three they
• 39:27
  Speaker 4: could even be short films, but there's three films that
• 39:31
  Speaker 4: I'm going to write or I'm going to direct, or
• 39:33
  Speaker 4: I already have in my arsenal that I can use
• 39:38
  Speaker 4: as building blocks to get to this ultimate five million
• 39:41
  Speaker 4: dollar project. And along the way, I'm going to get
• 39:43
  Speaker 4: myself a producer that I really love working with that
• 39:46
  Speaker 4: sees my vision. I'm going to get an actor that
• 39:50
  Speaker 4: I know is going to blow up because he's going
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: to he or she is going to be the perfect
• 39:54
  Speaker 4: lead for my five million dollar project.
• 39:59
  Speaker 5: Will be right after a word from our sponsor. And
• 40:05
  Speaker 5: now back to the.
• 40:06
  Speaker 4: Show, Like you start to gather your your team while
• 40:13
  Speaker 4: you're building up to getting that five million dollar movie
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: done and you're building your team with product, right, Like
• 40:21
  Speaker 4: we have to look at our films as product in
• 40:24
  Speaker 4: order to make some of like show that you can
• 40:27
  Speaker 4: distribute so you can make the money back on this,
• 40:29
  Speaker 4: like under half a million dollar project, so that when
• 40:32
  Speaker 4: you do go to investors for the five million, you
• 40:34
  Speaker 4: can say, look, here's my track record, not only in
• 40:37
  Speaker 4: the creative sense, but in the funding sense. I made
• 40:42
  Speaker 4: you know, ten percent profit on this one. We were
• 40:44
  Speaker 4: able to check out or test out distribution models on
• 40:49
  Speaker 4: this one, and we discovered that this works and this doesn't,
• 40:52
  Speaker 4: and this pays and this doesn't. You know, like it's
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: time for filmmakers to start thinking of their careers as
• 40:59
  Speaker 4: true per action companies and businesses.
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I agree, you know, there it should
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: be more of a business acromen to this. There should
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: be more of a thought about, you know, how the
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: investors are their money back. You know, Jason Brubaker, who
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: I have had on the show, even said, yeah, Jason's
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: a great guy. He even said, you know, hey, we're
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: gonna get my movie in the sun. Dance isn't a business.
• 41:20
  Speaker 4: Place, you know, please, Yeah, but you see it's funny, Yeah,
• 41:29
  Speaker 4: which is the business plan? But it's absolutely not a
• 41:32
  Speaker 4: business plan.
• 41:35
  Speaker 3: And you know, I had on an In, I had
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: on Morgan J. Freeman and he was episode ninety nine
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: and uh he actually won Sundance and was the first
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: ever I think what triple crown champion. And I mean
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: he has, you know, an amazing story about you know,
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: why the movie was never released basically it all. I
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: mean he even admits this, so I'm not you know,
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: not not you know, spring dirt, but he an it
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: went all to his head and he got into trouble
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: when he was blowing off meetings with Steven Spielberg, whoa yeah,
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: and but but now he works for MTV and uh,
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: I mean, you know everything I just said we went
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: over with the interview. But but yeah, but you know,
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: just you know, that's why Sundance, you know, maybe winning
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: it isn't the you know, the the best thing that
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: it could happen, because you know, it doesn't know, there's
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: no guarantees in life.
• 42:26
  Speaker 4: Right absolutely, And you know it's so funny because my
• 42:30
  Speaker 4: first feature a bull Showers, Like everybody behind the scenes,
• 42:34
  Speaker 4: Sundance was our goal. That was our business plan, and
• 42:38
  Speaker 4: so as somebody who made that their business plan and
• 42:40
  Speaker 4: then was sadly like, we we made this amazing movie,
• 42:45
  Speaker 4: but it was about us, about the Columbine story, so
• 42:49
  Speaker 4: not the feel good movie of the year. And while
• 42:52
  Speaker 4: we were shooting, the market crashed and Sundance started taking
• 42:56
  Speaker 4: comedies and they shifted their their kind of film selection
• 43:02
  Speaker 4: criteria and they started to program differently, and our film
• 43:07
  Speaker 4: didn't get in, and so we had to then figure
• 43:11
  Speaker 4: out how we're going to pay our investors back. And
• 43:13
  Speaker 4: we did the second day and date, which was on
• 43:18
  Speaker 4: iTunes and in the theaters at the same time. And
• 43:21
  Speaker 4: at that time it was like so unheard of one
• 43:25
  Speaker 4: other film had done it, and the theaters were freaking out.
• 43:29
  Speaker 4: They called us the horsemen of the apocalypse, like like
• 43:32
  Speaker 4: you said about your indiegog campaign, Like we had to
• 43:35
  Speaker 4: explain how it wasn't going to affect the theatrical release
• 43:41
  Speaker 4: the way that they were thinking. And I kept saying,
• 43:43
  Speaker 4: I kept using the analogy of Wolfgang Puck. I'm like
• 43:46
  Speaker 4: Wolfgang Puck's restaurants didn't go under when he started to
• 43:49
  Speaker 4: serve frozen or put frozen dinners in the grocery store.
• 43:55
  Speaker 4: His profits went up, Like it wasn't They fed into
• 43:58
  Speaker 4: each other and so like it was a lot of
• 43:59
  Speaker 4: can Vin saying that you know, the internet isn't actually
• 44:03
  Speaker 4: going to kill your theatrical release. It's going to be
• 44:07
  Speaker 4: a great way for people to, you know, learn about
• 44:11
  Speaker 4: the film in different avenues. And it's like a Vock concert.
• 44:14
  Speaker 4: If you want to go to a concert. You want
• 44:16
  Speaker 4: to go to a concert, but you're not going to
• 44:18
  Speaker 4: not buy the CD from the band. I almost think,
• 44:21
  Speaker 4: and this is my theory, I think that theaters need
• 44:24
  Speaker 4: to start selling digital copies of the movies in the lobby.
• 44:28
  Speaker 4: I think, after you see like an X Men and
• 44:31
  Speaker 4: you're so excited about it, you want that. I bet
• 44:34
  Speaker 4: you people would make They would make so much more
• 44:36
  Speaker 4: money if they started selling digital copies. But that's just
• 44:39
  Speaker 4: my soapbox.
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: Well, I actually think that, you know, going along with that,
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: it's what's going to happen as a Refistart's selling like packages,
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: like you buy a ticket, you buy a shirt, you
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: buy a hat, you get a digital download when that's released,
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: and maybe some other like hard to come by collectible
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: that you know can't be three D printed as readily,
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: and you know, and you get that to together may
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: even get to you know, it's sort of like late W.
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: Brad Pitt did with World War Z because it was
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: getting all those you know, all that bad publicity and
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: then you know he was going to mystery tours around
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: you know, people were like, oh my god, what if
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: he comes to ours? A uh and and I think
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: that helped it out. And but you know it's funny.
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: They're actually amount a sequel to that with David Venture directing,
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: which I think is completely odd.
• 45:21
  Speaker 4: Business.
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I mean World War Z. I actually
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: I actually read the book yeah, and the movie. I
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: was like, what what is going on here? There's so
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: many times where I was like, what the hell is?
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: Why are they doing this? Like this is this is
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: my This is the part that really had me laughing.
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: They're in you have you seen what was at? Okay,
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: So they're in Jerusalem and the the Israelis have like
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: waled off the city and they're letting in everybody else
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: one by one. Well when the I think it was
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: the Muslims started to sing suddenly that's what attracted all
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: the zombies. And they said, but I'm like, what about
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: all the helicopters and people talking like so what have?
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: Like this is this singing driving them nuts, and I mean,
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: it's just I I was like, what the hell is
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: going on here? Because usually I'm the guy everyone asks
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: after we see a movie, like, you know, they want
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: me to explain stuff, and I go, I have no
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: idea about this one. You guys got me how they
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: the zombies can tell you? It's throw these noises and
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: stuff like that. I just don't know. Uh, But I'm
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: sorry to get sidetracked there, But it's all good.
• 46:23
  Speaker 4: I just I like action movies, so I'm very good
• 46:27
  Speaker 4: at not analyzing action.
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: Movies, you know. But like some of the die Hard
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: comes along and it's just like it flips everything. And
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: I mean now, because because you know, that's how people
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: pitch stuff. It's it's die Hard in a blank. I
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: had a friend, I had a friend of mine pitched
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: die Hard in a Haunted House. Nice, yeah, And I
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: was like, how did this not sell? And He's like, Dave,
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: that's a question I asked myself every day, you know.
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: And you know, Jen, I wanted to ask you just
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: to sort of continue with this this part of the conversation.
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: You know, what are what do you think are some
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: of the main roadblocks to getting your film made?
• 47:08
  Speaker 4: I'm not having a plan. It's probably the biggest. So yeah,
• 47:14
  Speaker 4: go ahead.
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: I was gonna say, so, do you think filmmakers, do
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: you think that this script is just too much money?
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: Like we're like, we're just saying with me, do you
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: think that the script maybe it isn't you know, feasible.
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: Maybe they should, you know, aim sort of smaller scope,
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: you know, make something for maybe five, ten, fifteen thousand,
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: you know, and and shoot that short film first that
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: you know, costs that raise that, you know, crowdfund that
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: money go from.
• 47:37
  Speaker 4: It depends on what the goal is, you know. It's
• 47:41
  Speaker 4: it's really interesting how many filmmakers and actors and people
• 47:47
  Speaker 4: in this industry will just do anything. And what I've
• 47:53
  Speaker 4: learned is until you're at a certain level, you really
• 47:58
  Speaker 4: have to focus on one thing to start. And what
• 48:03
  Speaker 4: I mean by that is like, if you really want
• 48:08
  Speaker 4: to be doing romantic comedy and that's your ultimate goal,
• 48:12
  Speaker 4: please don't make a horror movie because you think it's
• 48:14
  Speaker 4: easier to sell, because then you're you're dealing with distribution
• 48:18
  Speaker 4: companies that aren't in line with what you want to
• 48:20
  Speaker 4: be doing. Ultimately, you're dealing with financers in line, you're
• 48:24
  Speaker 4: dealing with cast and producers, and like every single person
• 48:28
  Speaker 4: that you're putting your time and energy into developing a
• 48:32
  Speaker 4: relationship with when you're making a horror film, they're not
• 48:36
  Speaker 4: over here. They're not going to be the ones that
• 48:39
  Speaker 4: help you make your romantic comedy. So instead, start to
• 48:43
  Speaker 4: focus on networking with people in the romantic comedy space.
• 48:48
  Speaker 4: Maybe getting some if you want to be a director,
• 48:51
  Speaker 4: getting on some TV shows in the you know, more
• 48:56
  Speaker 4: comedy space, going to film festivals that focus more on
• 49:02
  Speaker 4: romantic comedies rather than the horror. Like, all of the
• 49:05
  Speaker 4: things that you should be doing should be focused in
• 49:08
  Speaker 4: the genre that you really want to be working in.
• 49:12
  Speaker 4: And I'm not saying that you can't make friends with
• 49:14
  Speaker 4: people that are doing things outside of your genre. I'm
• 49:17
  Speaker 4: just saying, be a little more strategic in the choices.
• 49:23
  Speaker 4: Let me rephrase that, being a little more specific with
• 49:27
  Speaker 4: the areas that you spend your focused time on. Does
• 49:31
  Speaker 4: that make sense?
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it makes perfect sense.
• 49:33
  Speaker 4: And I mean it's heartbreaking to me because I've seen
• 49:36
  Speaker 4: so many filmmakers not working in the area that they
• 49:39
  Speaker 4: want to be working in, and they work for ten
• 49:42
  Speaker 4: years and then they don't have the contacts they need
• 49:44
  Speaker 4: to make the project they actually want to make.
• 49:48
  Speaker 5: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 49:54
  Speaker 5: and now back to the show.
• 49:57
  Speaker 4: You know, this whole business is all about building. It's
• 50:01
  Speaker 4: like you have to think of it like a house.
• 50:03
  Speaker 4: Your foundation. Then you've got your walls, and you've got
• 50:06
  Speaker 4: your drywall and your paint, and you know, it's it
• 50:09
  Speaker 4: takes years to build that type of career. But if
• 50:15
  Speaker 4: you're you know, working on the foundation on this one house,
• 50:19
  Speaker 4: and then you're going over and you're working on walls
• 50:21
  Speaker 4: in a different house, and then you're going over and
• 50:22
  Speaker 4: you're painting a different house, like, it doesn't make sense.
• 50:26
  Speaker 4: So it's really important to think of it as a business.
• 50:29
  Speaker 4: Like if you were in banking, you wouldn't be networking
• 50:34
  Speaker 4: with a ton of people who were in film, Like
• 50:38
  Speaker 4: it just doesn't it doesn't make sense. And that's specific networking.
• 50:41
  Speaker 4: And I do have to say that Los Angeles is
• 50:44
  Speaker 4: built for networking, So the people that are outside of
• 50:49
  Speaker 4: LA or a really strong film community might not have
• 50:53
  Speaker 4: the opportunities to network the same way. But and they
• 50:57
  Speaker 4: also might think of it as a poor letter. And
• 51:00
  Speaker 4: I really want you to stop that because I used
• 51:03
  Speaker 4: to think that way, Like we think, oh, you're just
• 51:06
  Speaker 4: you just want to meet me because you want something
• 51:09
  Speaker 4: or you need something. But the reality is in film,
• 51:12
  Speaker 4: everybody wants something and everybody needs something. So when you're networking,
• 51:17
  Speaker 4: it's not an icky thing. It's not like you're going
• 51:20
  Speaker 4: to come in and take advantage because you're literally like,
• 51:24
  Speaker 4: I of course want to network with directors because I'm
• 51:27
  Speaker 4: not one, so I need one, and they of course
• 51:31
  Speaker 4: want to network with me because they're not producers and
• 51:33
  Speaker 4: they need one. You know. So it's this wonderful dance
• 51:37
  Speaker 4: of needs and wants and how can we all help
• 51:41
  Speaker 4: each other as opposed to thinking, oh, how I feel
• 51:45
  Speaker 4: gross because I'm just gonna ask for something. It's a
• 51:48
  Speaker 4: big mental shift that needs to happen for a lot
• 51:51
  Speaker 4: of people when it comes to networking. And I'm being
• 51:54
  Speaker 4: really specific about who you're networking with and not way
• 52:00
  Speaker 4: wasting your time networking with somebody you don't like. You know, Yeah,
• 52:04
  Speaker 4: I've really made a deal with myself. I don't work
• 52:06
  Speaker 4: with people I don't like anymore. It's just not worth it.
• 52:09
  Speaker 4: There's too many awesome people in this industry that you know,
• 52:14
  Speaker 4: why why bother? And then you're wasting this is a
• 52:17
  Speaker 4: really great way to look at it for me anyway,
• 52:19
  Speaker 4: because I did really feel icky when I first came
• 52:22
  Speaker 4: to LA. But the reality is, if I'm if I'm
• 52:27
  Speaker 4: spending time with someone I know I'm never gonna work with,
• 52:30
  Speaker 4: or I know I don't really like but they might
• 52:32
  Speaker 4: be able to help me, I'm wasting their time as well.
• 52:36
  Speaker 4: And that's just no good for anybody. So only spend
• 52:39
  Speaker 4: time with the people that you actually really want to
• 52:41
  Speaker 4: work with and you really like, and you really you're
• 52:44
  Speaker 4: aligned creatively, you know, and and energetically.
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: To not yeah, yeah, no, I I know what you mean,
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: because you know, I've had friends who have had producers,
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: you know, the directors, and they've had producers come on
• 53:00
  Speaker 3: and they just don't gel. And I've always said this
• 53:02
  Speaker 3: to people too. If you're gonna be if you're the
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: type of guy where everything is by the book and
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: you have to be professional, you have to work with
• 53:08
  Speaker 3: people like that. You know, if you hire if you
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: hire a producer who's like, you know, hey, nothing's a
• 53:13
  Speaker 3: big deal, let's just have throw everything to the wind. Uh,
• 53:17
  Speaker 3: you know, it's it's not gonna work well because you're
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: just gonna be a miss a mixed match of styles,
• 53:22
  Speaker 3: and it's it's just not gonna work. And you know,
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: even you know myself, my own projects, I have worked
• 53:27
  Speaker 3: with the producers and and dps and actors who just
• 53:31
  Speaker 3: aren't my style. And that's you know, And and I
• 53:34
  Speaker 3: came to the same conclusion. I don't want to work
• 53:36
  Speaker 3: with these people anymore, who are time and energy vampires
• 53:40
  Speaker 3: who want to call you constantly to complain about something
• 53:43
  Speaker 3: that someone did or might do. For instance, I had
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: a project one time and this one guy kept calling
• 53:50
  Speaker 3: to complain about my producer, And I said, what is
• 53:53
  Speaker 3: the problem here, Like, why do you guys keep freaking arguing?
• 53:57
  Speaker 3: I was thinking to myself, how much overlap do you
• 53:59
  Speaker 3: guys even freaking have you? Like, what do you guys
• 54:02
  Speaker 3: like bumping into each other in the supermarkets? Like you
• 54:03
  Speaker 3: know any And he would tell me, oh, the producer's condescending,
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: And I said, listen, that might This producer is like
• 54:10
  Speaker 3: one of the nicest guys. I think he's too nice.
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: In fact, if you told me that, I would agree
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: with you. But you know, it's just it's just stuff
• 54:17
  Speaker 3: like that, you know what I mean? Yeah, And I mean,
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: some people's egos get get the the Have you ever
• 54:22
  Speaker 3: seen the movie Overnight By It focuses on Troy Troy Duffy,
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: who did The boon Dock Saints. It basically follows him
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: at the minute he gets his deal to make The
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: boon Dock Saints with Mirramax, his ego goes off the
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: freaking rails and I mean he ends up the movie
• 54:39
  Speaker 3: gets in turnaround. Uh, then they have to they had
• 54:42
  Speaker 3: to find funding somewhere else. And I mean it's just
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: basically about, you know, a guy getting his dream and
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: just destroying it because he's on his own worst enemy.
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: And I think it's happened to a lot of people
• 54:51
  Speaker 3: in this business, is that there is there ego just
• 54:54
  Speaker 3: gets in the way.
• 54:56
  Speaker 4: No. I love that you're talking about ego because it's
• 54:58
  Speaker 4: something I I talk about immediately if I'm about to
• 55:02
  Speaker 4: go into a project, because my whole thing is we
• 55:05
  Speaker 4: have to know what we want to do with the project.
• 55:08
  Speaker 4: So what's the project's goal? Basically is it to go theatrical,
• 55:13
  Speaker 4: is it to go to Hulu? Is it to go
• 55:15
  Speaker 4: you know, a film festival, or like what is it?
• 55:18
  Speaker 4: And make that decision because that's the thing. Also back
• 55:21
  Speaker 4: to your question, earlier about you know, what do you
• 55:25
  Speaker 4: think the things filmmakers don't have in place? And that's
• 55:30
  Speaker 4: part of the plan. Part of the plan is what
• 55:32
  Speaker 4: are you going to do with the film once it's done?
• 55:35
  Speaker 4: You know it like it's great. If your mom thinks
• 55:37
  Speaker 4: it's great and you want to show it in the basement,
• 55:40
  Speaker 4: more power to you. But you can't raise money with
• 55:42
  Speaker 4: a plan like that, and so and you also can't
• 55:45
  Speaker 4: make an effective movie if you don't have a plan.
• 55:47
  Speaker 4: So we sit down, my whole team and I we
• 55:50
  Speaker 4: sit down and we decide this is where the project's going.
• 55:53
  Speaker 4: This is how we're getting there. If some other great
• 55:56
  Speaker 4: opportunity comes up in the meantime, we'll obviously talk about it.
• 56:00
  Speaker 4: But this is the plan, right. And then there's a
• 56:03
  Speaker 4: whole conversation about ego, because ego tends to like negative,
• 56:08
  Speaker 4: ego tends to come from insecurity. And as a producer,
• 56:13
  Speaker 4: I feel like it's my job to make sure that
• 56:15
  Speaker 4: people feel secure in the process, especially the director and
• 56:18
  Speaker 4: the creative people in the project.
• 56:21
  Speaker 3: Because.
• 56:23
  Speaker 4: You have to feel secure in order to create big
• 56:26
  Speaker 4: is my thought on it. But the thing is that
• 56:30
  Speaker 4: in that creating big, if they feel secure, they can
• 56:34
  Speaker 4: remove their ego from it, understanding that everybody is working
• 56:39
  Speaker 4: towards the same goal. And so I do, I flat
• 56:42
  Speaker 4: out say there will be no ego because our biggest
• 56:46
  Speaker 4: question whenever we're having a conversation and there's a difference
• 56:51
  Speaker 4: in opinion has to be what's best for the project.
• 56:56
  Speaker 4: And so that phrase comes out of my mouth at
• 56:59
  Speaker 4: least a that times on every project I work on,
• 57:03
  Speaker 4: because if you can really go, okay, this issue that
• 57:07
  Speaker 4: we're having, like you've given an opinion, and you've given
• 57:11
  Speaker 4: an opinion, but what's which opinion or which plan of
• 57:14
  Speaker 4: action is best to get us to the goal at hand?
• 57:18
  Speaker 4: What's best for the project. And then that way, it
• 57:21
  Speaker 4: doesn't matter whose opinion it is, it's just what's best
• 57:24
  Speaker 4: for the project, and all ego can be removed and
• 57:27
  Speaker 4: everybody can feel happy about it and it's all good.
• 57:30
  Speaker 4: I found that that's like literally the secret to having
• 57:34
  Speaker 4: a harmonious production.
• 57:37
  Speaker 3: You know, that's a very good tip. And uh, you know,
• 57:42
  Speaker 3: the next film project I do, that's that'd be something
• 57:45
  Speaker 3: I want to talk about, you know, when doing you know,
• 57:47
  Speaker 3: getting everyone together, all those producers, especially because the produce
• 57:50
  Speaker 3: you know, and the producers you know. I mean, because
• 57:54
  Speaker 3: I've had some producers before they've come to me to
• 57:56
  Speaker 3: figure out a problem. And I said, I'm trying to
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: write the project here. Why are you coming to me
• 58:01
  Speaker 3: talking to me about a problem? And and me and
• 58:05
  Speaker 3: the producer in the middle of this set got into
• 58:07
  Speaker 3: a huge screaming match. And I'm a I'm a fellow Ginger,
• 58:11
  Speaker 3: Jenna and uh and and I I can outscream a
• 58:16
  Speaker 3: lot of people. I but those people who you heard
• 58:20
  Speaker 3: me on the podcast are like, nah, Dave's no, and
• 58:23
  Speaker 3: believe me when I have like that that ginger temper
• 58:26
  Speaker 3: where I just start screaming. And she actually walked off
• 58:30
  Speaker 3: and was like, I don't know why you're so angry.
• 58:32
  Speaker 3: I said, you don't know why I'm so angry. You know,
• 58:35
  Speaker 3: it's like it's good thing. And and then she walks
• 58:38
  Speaker 3: away and leaves me with the problem. And then I'm
• 58:40
  Speaker 3: like then then she was later on her and I
• 58:42
  Speaker 3: are arguing again. She's like, well, you weren't directing the actors,
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: and why why isn't the camera, why isn't the this
• 58:47
  Speaker 3: equipment set up? I said, why aren't you talking to
• 58:49
  Speaker 3: my first a d Why are you talking to me
• 58:51
  Speaker 3: about this, and and and again. Now we're going back
• 58:54
  Speaker 3: and it's it. So why why she was telling me
• 58:59
  Speaker 3: the problem?
• 59:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's because most people who are producers don't actually
• 59:04
  Speaker 4: understand what producers do. It's such a problem, Like I
• 59:08
  Speaker 4: have to educate people on what producers do all the time.
• 59:12
  Speaker 4: And so another tip that might help is to if
• 59:18
  Speaker 4: you have multiple producers and there's no clear lead producer, first,
• 59:23
  Speaker 4: if you can remedy that, if you can put like
• 59:25
  Speaker 4: a lead producer on the on the books, do it,
• 59:29
  Speaker 4: because then the buck stops there and they would be
• 59:32
  Speaker 4: more like your producing partner as a director, like they
• 59:36
  Speaker 4: would totally be your eyes and ears in production, so
• 59:40
  Speaker 4: that you understood is going on. But then also if
• 59:45
  Speaker 4: you have multiple producers, assign them something to be in
• 59:49
  Speaker 4: charge of because oftentimes they don't know where the buck
• 59:52
  Speaker 4: stops because there's four of them, for example, and they
• 59:55
  Speaker 4: you know, there's so many different duties that are going on,
• 59:58
  Speaker 4: and they're like, well, who's in charge of it?
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 5: And the ball drops, we'll be right back after a
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 5: word from our sponsor and now back to the show.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 4: So, yeah, you have a producer in charge of the cast,
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 4: Like that's really crucial. You have a producer who's in
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 4: charge of locations and and shaking hands and kissing babies
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 4: while we're on set. Crucial, you have a producer who's
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 4: in charge of crew, and anything that goes wrong with crew,
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 4: you know, like just making sure that there's one person
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 4: who's in charge of these different areas will help, I think,
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 4: alleviate you getting bothered on set with things that aren't
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 4: your responsibility.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, very true. Part of the problem was
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 3: my my producer was supposed to be you know, when
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 3: I'm around, he was supposed to be the lead producer.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 3: He had a crush on this one producer and and
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: that you know, that whole thing, you know, so he
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 3: never really wanted to monish her or say anything to her,
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 3: and was always like everything she did was, you know,
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 3: the work of you know, of a god. And we
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 3: had a long talk about that as well, he and
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 3: I after the production.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 4: And unfortunately after the production, right.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well because I you know, I kept saying, you know,
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 3: why are you making excuses for this woman? And finally,
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 3: you know, because I'm very I'm very see I have
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 3: a background of business, and I'm always higher, slow, fire, fast,
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 3: and as soon as I start saying problems, I want
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 3: to start firing. I'm like, I don't even want to
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 3: deal with this because I mean, you know what I mean.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 3: It's it's going up a mountaintop and and you're going
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 3: up this mountain and people are trying to pull you
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 3: back because they want to talk to you about Hey, hey,
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: what about this this base camp we were just at.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 3: Should we talk about this? I don't like the way
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 3: we're climbing. Why are we in these work closed? It's
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 3: too cold up here, you know? And You're like, no,
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 3: if we just move forward and keep rolling this police
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 3: problems aren't actually problems. You're a problem inventor. You know,
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 3: there's a problem inventors and problem spot problems spotters and
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 3: problems solvers, and and I kept telling the producers. I
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 3: was like, you guys are problems spotters. You don't fix problems.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 3: And then you know, of course I get the whole
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: I get the condis saying, but applied, Jenna, well we're
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 3: not as smart as you.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, here's mine too. I feel like indie
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 4: filmmakers do not feel empowered to fire their producers. And
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 4: I've been in that situation myself. You have to work
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 4: in a clause in your contract that you you can't
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 4: get stuck with people who aren't helpful.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 3: Yes. Uh, and that is something too I learned because
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 3: when I when I went to my entertainment lawyer, I
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 3: was saying, you know, when weren't drawing new contracts, I
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 3: was like, I for next project, I said, I want
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 3: to have in English, you know, in written word, what
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 3: happens if they get fired on day one? What happens
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 3: if they get fired on the last day? What what
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 3: rights do they still have? Uh? You know, you know
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 3: all that, all that stuff. So basically, by the time
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 3: I'm done, Jenna, these contracts are like you know, you
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 3: can pull it in front of you and it would
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 3: be like Youl, it could stop bullets, you know what
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 3: I mean?
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 4: Totally, Yeah, I do. Well, it's interesting to go back
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 4: to your five million dollar project, and that is that
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 4: this is you testing out which producers you can bring
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 4: along on that project with which ones are going to
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 4: actually help you get that project done, so that the
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 4: investor can see, Okay, we've worked together before. Here's the
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 4: thing with investment, They're not investing in the project, They're
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 4: investing in you and your team. So it's crucial to
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 4: remember that and to and to realize that the that
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 4: you need to stack the deck in your favor as
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 4: far as you as the filmmaker is concerned, you know,
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 4: I mean, obviously they're going to care about the project,
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 4: but they're going to care more about whether or not
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 4: you can get the project done effectively without any of
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 4: the drama. And if you can show that you've done
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 4: it successfully on a couple of other films, then you're
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 4: more likely to be able to get some money in hand.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, you know, as you know, as far as
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 3: when I go to you know, actually present some of
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 3: this stuff, that's right. You know, they are trying. They
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 3: are investing in you know, in in you and the
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 3: production and all that and your team, and you know
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 3: you have to have that that short of track record,
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 3: and you know, they want to make sure that you
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 3: know you're not you know, obviously you know what you're
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 3: doing and you know it's not going to be wasted
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 3: and you have to come back. I mean, because I've
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 3: had people who've crowd fund of money and they've wasted
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 3: at all because they didn't understand how to budget that money.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, seriously, I mean I could go on
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 3: and on about that. I know we're starting to run
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 3: out of time, Jenna, but I actually I had a
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 3: question come in over Twitter. I wanted to ask you,
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 3: and this is from podcast reviews at the Hippocritics and
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 3: he his his Her question was as a producer, what
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 3: is the best way to present yourself on set to
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 3: the cast and without overstepping your role?
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 4: Ooh, good question, right. Here's the thing I wanted to
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 4: actually say this before. A lot of times producers are
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 4: creating problems that they can solve so they can be
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 4: the hero on set. Here's the great thing about good producers.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 4: Production happens before set even exists. So a lot of
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 4: times what I mean by that is crew will complain like, oh,
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 4: that producer is not doing anything except sitting behind video village. There.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 4: If they're able to sit behind video village and everything
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 4: is running smoothly, it means they did their job. Because
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 4: your job as a producer is mostly in pre production. Now,
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 4: to be able to be a confident producer on set,
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 4: don't create problems that you're gonna just fix right away.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 4: And if if there is a problem, just handle it.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 4: Not everybody needs to know that you're doing your job,
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 4: you know. Like we had a set as saying on
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 4: one of our sets because we had a producer like
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 4: that on it, where we were like, it's kind of
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 4: your effing job, Like, just do your job, you know.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 4: But the way to that, I've learned is the most
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 4: effective way to get the crew to understand kind of
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 4: where you're at is be completely open to if they
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 4: need anything, if they have questions. Never ever say no
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 4: without looking into it. Like if somebody says, hey, I
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 4: need an extra thousand dollars to get this piece of
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 4: equipment that we really need to this shot, your response
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 4: is always let me check on it if you and
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 4: then actually check on it. Don't just say it and
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 4: then sit there and then be like no, I've seen
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 4: people do that too. Like it's just being a genuine
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 4: human and not having ego and understanding that everybody on
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 4: the set is there to create the same vision and
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 4: be supportive and be you know, fun. And I think
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 4: the people that overstep when they're producing on set are
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 4: the ones that are feeling insecure and so their ego
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 4: comes into play, like do you know who I am?
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 4: I'm the producer, Like, honestly, if you don't if all
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 4: you have to say is, hey, guys, I'm the producer.
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 4: I'm here for you. If you need something, let me know.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 4: Otherwise I'm going to be sitting behind the video village,
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 4: you know, or I'm going to be over here or whatever.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 4: Just that's how I would suggest not stepping on people's toes,
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 4: but still being the leader, and if something is going wrong,
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 4: feel absolutely free to speak up because it is your
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 4: I mean, the director likes to think it's their set,
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 4: but you know, creatively it's absolutely one the director's set.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 4: But if you see a safety issue, you go to
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 4: the ad Understand what people's positions are is really important too,
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 4: you know, like you said about like you said, Dave,
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 4: about the producer who is coming to you about schedule
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 4: and a d stuff. It's like, don't bother the director
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 4: with stuff that's not his job. Like, I think it's
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 4: this important thing to understand that once you're on set,
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 4: there are jobs, and there are are departments, and there
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 4: are guidelines, and respect them. As much as you respect
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 4: the crew, they'll respect you as a producer.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's very good advice. And you know, because respect
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 3: is a two way stream, right, So yeah, and I know,
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 3: people you know, can can definitely tell when you know
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 3: a producer has it together, and then they can also
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 3: tell when a prouser just doesn't give a shit and
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 3: they just kind of you know, And I mean I
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 3: had real quick to just to sort of had this side.
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 3: A friend of mine he went on to set one
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 3: time and there was two producers who were on just
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 3: sitting on crates, just playing NBA jam on their iPads,
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 3: and he was like, what the hell, Well, He's like,
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 3: they should be getting this together. This is the first
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 3: day of film. Yeah, and they were just playing and
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 3: he said that you could tell from the get go
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 3: it was not going to be a good a good production. Jenna,
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 3: I know, we talk. Yeah, it's that that I mean, honestly,
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 3: I mean, I guess the director just basically just at
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 3: that point just gave up at the beginning, which this never.
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 4: I know that we're almost out of time. But can
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 4: I comment on that really quick?
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 3: Sure?
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 4: So here's the deal with what I was saying before
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 4: about educating people on what producers do. Oftentimes, producers that
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 4: are inexperienced think that making a movie is literally just
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 4: making the movie, meaning shooting, getting all the things ready
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 4: for shooting and then post. But the reality is a
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 4: true producer, an indie producer is somebody who can see
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 4: the entire project from.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 5: Start to we'll be right back after a word from
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 5: our sponsor, and now back to the show.
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 4: Finish. And what that means is, you know, working backwards
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 4: from distribution to marketing to PR, to post to production,
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 4: to pre production to development to funding. All of those
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 4: areas are the producer's job, right, And so those two
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 4: producers who are playing freaking MBA jam like I'm all
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 4: mad right now, Like I would have literally went up
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 4: to them and been like, are you serious? Do you
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 4: have distribution for your movie yet? Do you have a
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 4: marketing plan? Do you have the PR in place? What
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 4: are you doing to make sure that this film doesn't
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 4: just die once it's finished? That's the producer's job. So
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 4: if you're ever on set and you've done a great
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 4: job getting the set together and you think there's nothing
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 4: left to do, there's so much more to do, so
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 4: you know, get out there and do it. Basically, my this.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 3: And that's very good advice. Jenna, Jenna. Where do people
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 3: find you out online?
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 4: Jenna Edwardsmedia dot Com. I'm at Jenna Edwards on Twitter.
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 4: Jenna Edwards Media on Facebook and Instagram.
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 3: Jenna Edwards, I want to say thank you so much
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 3: for coming on.
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 4: Thank you so much for having me. This was really
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 4: really fun.
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah it was. It was a total blast. And uh,
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 3: you know what, I'll have to have you back on
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 3: some time we can continue to talk about because there's
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 3: a lot of stuff we didn't we didn't get a
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 3: connection we were we went on these you know that,
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 3: and that's you know that, that's the side of great conversation.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 3: So Jenna, I want to say thank you and I
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 3: wish you the best of lot you too.
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 4: We'll talk soon. Tank you soon, Jenna, by bye.
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: I want to thank Dave so much for doing such
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 2: a great job on this episode. If you want to
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: get links to anything we spoke about in this episode,
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 2: head over to the show notes at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv.
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: Forward slash for seventy two. Thank you so much for listening, guys,
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: as always, keep on writing no matter what.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 5: I'll talk to you soon.
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the bullet Proof Screenwriting podcast at
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv.
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 3: M