Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Dead North: A serial killer serves up victim as BBQ?

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Dead North: A serial killer serves up victim as BBQ? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: on sirius XM Triumph Channel one thirty two. Did a
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Speaker 1: beautiful young woman actually murder her lover and feed his
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Speaker 1: remains two guests at a barbecue? As fantastical as that sounds,
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Speaker 1: there is evidence that Kelly Cochrane not only murdered her lover,
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Speaker 1: but also her husband. As a matter of fact, this
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Speaker 1: brunette beauty may be responsible for at least a dozen deaths.
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Speaker 1: And joining me right now as a special guest, the
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Speaker 1: former Iron River City, Michigan Police Chief Laura Frizzo, who
1:37
Speaker 1: has investigated and prosecuted this woman Kelly Cochrane. Also with me,
1:44
Speaker 1: Dr Brian Russell, lawyer and psychologist, host of the hit
1:48
Speaker 1: show on investigation, Discovery, Fatal Vows forensics expert, Professor of
1:53
Speaker 1: Forensics at Jacksonville State University, Joseph Scott Morgan, and with
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Speaker 1: me from daily mail dot Com Sean Waltz. To all
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Speaker 1: of you, thank you for being with us. First, to you,
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Speaker 1: Laura Frizo, former Iron River City, Michigan police chief. When
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Speaker 1: did this woman, Kelly Cochrane first make a blip on
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Speaker 1: your radar? Um? Well, actually it was the day that
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Speaker 1: I took the complaint from a friend of my victim,
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Speaker 1: Chris Reagan Um, who said that she believed something was
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Speaker 1: wrong and that he was missing. It was probably within
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Speaker 1: twelve hours of taking that initial complaint. Wow. Wow, you
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Speaker 1: know what, Sean Walsh, dailymail dot Com. We've got two
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Speaker 1: stories to cover. Thank goodness. We've got uh former police
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Speaker 1: chief Frizo with us. Sean. We've got the husband we
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Speaker 1: think was killed by her, and the lover or the
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Speaker 1: lover as you like to say. Let's start with the
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Speaker 1: one that ended up on the barbecue pitch Sean, Well,
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Speaker 1: this is an interesting one. Her friends and family have
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Speaker 1: told investigators this stomach churning tale of how Cochrane allegedly
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Speaker 1: served the lovers remains to her neighbors at a barbecue.
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Speaker 1: It's kind of disgusting. Nancy and one of those stories
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Speaker 1: that left Daily Mail read is shocked that this could
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Speaker 1: actually be happening. But I don't understand too. Laura Friso,
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Speaker 1: former chief, Laura, why would we think? And first of all,
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Speaker 1: I got a problem with Sean Walsh to say that, oh,
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Speaker 1: this is really interesting. You've got a very unique definition
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Speaker 1: of interesting, Sean. But that's a whole another can of worms, Chief,
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Speaker 1: if I may call you that. Why do you believe
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Speaker 1: that the lover ends up all the barbecue pit? You know,
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Speaker 1: it was an interview that I did with UM, Jason
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Speaker 1: and Kelly Cochrane's neighbors, UM, who really ultimately are the
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Speaker 1: only ones that socialized UM spent any time with them,
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Speaker 1: UM and through this the It was a three hour
3:49
Speaker 1: interview that I did with them in which I let
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Speaker 1: them basically talk to each other to kind of, you know,
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Speaker 1: remember things that had occurred UM shortly after or around
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Speaker 1: the time time of Chris Reagan's um disappearance. So, um,
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Speaker 1: you know, Kelly Cochrane had been fired from her job.
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Speaker 1: They didn't have an income. The neighbors recall you know,
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Speaker 1: having them over for dinner because they felt bad for him.
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Speaker 1: They weren't they weren't eating, they didn't have any food,
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Speaker 1: they didn't have any money. Um. They recall, you know,
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Speaker 1: this is that the same interview where they recalled you know,
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Speaker 1: hearing these power tools running during the middle of the night. Um.
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Speaker 1: And then it was you know, the week after that,
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Speaker 1: you know, the Cochranes are inviting them over for dinner.
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Speaker 1: They had them over three times that week for dinner.
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Speaker 1: They thought that was odd. Where did they get the money?
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Speaker 1: And you know, then they recalled how there was you know,
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Speaker 1: just an abundance of meat that that it was you know,
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Speaker 1: you know, nothing really any side, just just to go
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Speaker 1: with it with the meat. It was just shish Kabab's
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Speaker 1: one night and it was you know, tacos one night,
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Speaker 1: it was pizza. It was a lot of meat. That's
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Speaker 1: what they recalled. And this is something that they recalled
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Speaker 1: while talking to each other. This wasn't me questioning or um,
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Speaker 1: you know, kind of heading them in an direction. This
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Speaker 1: is just you know, what they came to know through
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Speaker 1: their own discussion. That was actually the first time that
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Speaker 1: I became aware of the possibility of dismemberment um, which,
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Speaker 1: as you know, we found out did occur. Um. So
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Speaker 1: as things went on and you know, later finding you know,
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Speaker 1: Chris Reagan's you know skull um and that being the
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Speaker 1: only part of Chris Reagan that we found. Um, there's
5:26
Speaker 1: been many and unanswered questions for me regarding you know,
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Speaker 1: what actually did take place and that, you know, if
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Speaker 1: something like this could have occurred. Uh. Former police chief
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Speaker 1: of Iron River City, Michigan, Laura Freesday with me, Chief,
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Speaker 1: You've got me. I'm drinking out of fire hydrant here.
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Speaker 1: It's just too much to take in. I'm talking about
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Speaker 1: a barbecue spit where they serve nothing but meat, no sides,
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Speaker 1: no buns, no salad, nothing, and they vite them over
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Speaker 1: three times in one week. They have tacos, they have
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Speaker 1: shishka Bob's, nothing where you can really identify if it's
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Speaker 1: a chicken or a steak, all right, And I find
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Speaker 1: that Seawan Walsh dailymail dot com very probative, in other words,
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Speaker 1: proving something It's not like you couca rotisserie chicken and
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Speaker 1: you can look in the oven and there's a chicken,
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Speaker 1: or you grilled steaks and you can see the t bone.
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Speaker 1: It's meat that has been processed in a way you
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Speaker 1: don't know what it is. It's a mystery meat. Like
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Speaker 1: I asked the children when you have at school mystery meat. Well,
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Speaker 1: why do you say that because I don't know what
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Speaker 1: it was. It was just in a taco I don't
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Speaker 1: know what it was. Here you've got Shishka Bob's and
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Speaker 1: no veggies, just the meat. Then you've got tacos. I
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Speaker 1: forgot what the chief said was the third night. But
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Speaker 1: it's mystery. It's a mystery meat. That's it sounds like
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Speaker 1: when I stopped by a food truck at Manhattan at
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Speaker 1: one am in the morning. Well that's why you should
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Speaker 1: not go to a food truck in Manhattan one night.
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Speaker 1: And first of all, nothing good happens after midnight, Seawan.
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Speaker 1: I've told you to go home and be inside before midnight.
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Speaker 1: Everything goes sideways after midnight. You don't need to be
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Speaker 1: out walking around at a food truck. But again, why
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Speaker 1: is it always with you, Sean? It's always another can
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Speaker 1: of worms. All right, there's just you just go off
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Speaker 1: these down these rabbit holes, back back to do you chief?
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Speaker 1: Can you can you tell me that one more time?
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Speaker 1: The neighbors say in one week, First they hear power
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Speaker 1: tools all night, then they're invited over. Now I assume
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Speaker 1: you're saying the husband and Kelly Marie Cochrane invite them
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Speaker 1: over because she's accused of helping her husband kill and
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Speaker 1: dismember the boyfriend. Then she's charged with killing the husband
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Speaker 1: to quote even the score. So if they in quote's
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Speaker 1: aviting neighbors over, I'm assume as her and the husband
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Speaker 1: are inviting neigh reserver. Yes, that's correct, cheef. Why would
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Speaker 1: they want to kill the boyfriend? Why not just break
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Speaker 1: up with him and be done with it. Well, that was,
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Speaker 1: you know, a puzzled for a long time. I mean, um,
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Speaker 1: in from the very beginning of the investigation, I kind
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Speaker 1: of went from you know, you know, thinking it's most
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Speaker 1: likely that the husband, you know, UM, had an issue
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Speaker 1: with the affair and he you know, he snapped, he
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Speaker 1: had some emotional issues and you know, basically was looking
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Speaker 1: at him like, you know, he's the one, UM. And
8:34
Speaker 1: as time went on, and I was able to obtain
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Speaker 1: UM an extraction from you know, Kelly Cochrane's phone and
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Speaker 1: read some you know, text messages and communications. As I
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Speaker 1: you know, spent time reading those and going through their history.
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Speaker 1: It became very evident to me that UM, that wasn't
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Speaker 1: the case, that this was Kelly's idea, that UM, this
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Speaker 1: was something that you know, sadly actually turned her on UM.
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Speaker 1: And that was evident in a text message that she
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Speaker 1: sent to her husband just following the death of Chris Reagan,
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Speaker 1: you know, I mean again and talking about the history
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Speaker 1: of the text messages between them. Prior to Chris Reagan
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Speaker 1: being killed. You know, Kelly and Jason did not have
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Speaker 1: a good relationship. She was not good to him, She
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Speaker 1: was mentally abusive to him. She was controlling, He was
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Speaker 1: treated very poorly UM by her. UM. She definitely controlled
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Speaker 1: everything he did. UM. And once Chris Reagan was out
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Speaker 1: of the picture. And I want to say, the day
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Speaker 1: following you know, she's death, she's texting her husband, you know, UM,
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Speaker 1: calling him handsome, telling him that she's on her way
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Speaker 1: home and that she wants him to know bleep her.
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Speaker 1: I didn't know if I can say that word on
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Speaker 1: on this program. UM, so basically very I usually says, yeah,
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Speaker 1: very explicit sexual messages. Um completely Um, the opposite of
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Speaker 1: the kind of relationship she had or the way she
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Speaker 1: spoke to prior what police believe went down. Uh, and
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Speaker 1: just got Morgan. I want you to weigh in on
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Speaker 1: how the difficulty you face in dismembering. It's not like
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Speaker 1: Dexter okay, where which I love by the way, where
10:21
Speaker 1: you see Dexter who this is a I guess it
10:26
Speaker 1: was HBO or USA, can't remember anymore long running series
10:30
Speaker 1: where Dexter worked at a crime lab in Florida and
10:35
Speaker 1: would find out about bad guys that slipped through the
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Speaker 1: carracks and you go killed him. He was a serial killer,
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Speaker 1: and he would do it in such a way that
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Speaker 1: there was never any forensic evidence left behind. And in
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Speaker 1: a TV show to take about twenty seconds for him
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Speaker 1: to dismember somebody and get rid of the body. That's
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Speaker 1: not how it is. So I want you on the
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Speaker 1: reality of that. But police believe that this woman, Kelly
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Speaker 1: Cochrane and her husband Jason, came up with a plan
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Speaker 1: that the next night she would lure her boyfriend Christopher
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Speaker 1: Reagan who's also a co worker, to her home with
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Speaker 1: the promise of sex, and that Jason would then kill him.
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Speaker 1: I'm not really sure what the motivation was, but that
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Speaker 1: was the plan. The plan worked, and when Jason quote
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Speaker 1: caught Regan with his wife, he shot him dead. Then
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Speaker 1: the dismemberment began. Joe's got Morgan forensics expert. How difficult
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Speaker 1: is it really to dismember someone? It's it is, It
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Speaker 1: is quite the chore. Uh. Nancy, Uh spent a lot
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Speaker 1: of time in the morgue over the years, over seven
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Speaker 1: thousand pro sections of bodies during that period of time.
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Speaker 1: And Uh, I've had some experience at this sort of
11:56
Speaker 1: thing in the morgue, and it's it's not for the
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Speaker 1: faint of heart, and it's it's not to be done
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Speaker 1: entered into lightly without the proper tools. UM. I'd like
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Speaker 1: to say, first off, Chief, Uh, it's an honor to
12:08
Speaker 1: meet you. I think that you're a very brave person. UM.
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Speaker 1: And Uh, I'm I'm This whole case has got me
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Speaker 1: uh really thinking a lot here. Harkening back to what
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Speaker 1: Nancy said about dismemberment. UM, I'm amazed you said that
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Speaker 1: you guys had recovered the skull. I'm interested because one
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Speaker 1: of the things here, you know, you mentioned, UM, you
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Speaker 1: mentioned the sound of power tools, and obviously that's that
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Speaker 1: is something that's in the forefront of your mind here
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Speaker 1: when you found his skull, did you, guys, at any
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Speaker 1: point in time consult like a tool mark tool mark
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Speaker 1: expert to see how the skull was essentially removed from
12:53
Speaker 1: the body. Were there any marks on there to indicate
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Speaker 1: that there was a tie back to any specific type
12:58
Speaker 1: of tool good question? What about it? Chase? That is
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Speaker 1: a good question. UM. You know, it's yeah, you know,
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Speaker 1: when we when we located the skull, it was you know,
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Speaker 1: the lower jaw was missing. There was a you know,
13:12
Speaker 1: the first thing that I looked for was the UM
13:15
Speaker 1: wound to the back of the head as Kelly had described.
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Speaker 1: That's where he had been shot. UM and located that. UM.
13:22
Speaker 1: You know, I had the Emmy out to take and
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Speaker 1: collect the skull. The skull was sent to UM, you know,
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Speaker 1: out to a forensic anthropologist UM for further examination and identification. UM.
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Speaker 1: And I really, you know, I'm not sure that it
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Speaker 1: was even you know, able to be UM. Well, it's
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Speaker 1: the lower jaw was missing. He would not see a
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Speaker 1: tool market at the neck right. For me personally, there
13:53
Speaker 1: was no indication of anything there, but again there was
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Speaker 1: a lot missing. Yeah, Chief, I was wondering, was there
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Speaker 1: you talk about this injury to the back of the
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Speaker 1: skull and I'm assuming, um uh, that there was an
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Speaker 1: indication that this is a farms injury. Was there any
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Speaker 1: kind of communicating injury on the forward aspect of the skull,
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Speaker 1: like you know what? Did it appear to be a
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Speaker 1: through and through injury? Were you guys able to recover
14:22
Speaker 1: a projectile? Did they bring out metal detectors and this
14:26
Speaker 1: sort of thing to search the area? So interesting? Interestingly enough,
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Speaker 1: the I mean, did look for that possibility of damage
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Speaker 1: you know, within the skull for you know, possible um
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Speaker 1: you know, exit wound or injury to the inside from
14:43
Speaker 1: that projectile and was not able to determine that. However,
14:47
Speaker 1: there was an area um of the the left side
14:52
Speaker 1: of the cheek bone that was missing, and amazingly enough,
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Speaker 1: we recovered that piece really you know, probably I don't know,
15:00
Speaker 1: within two to three yards from where the skull start
15:04
Speaker 1: and that was the only other piece of human bones
15:07
Speaker 1: that we recovered in that entire area. Wow, And I
15:10
Speaker 1: think I know why to Shaun Watch with Daily Mail
15:13
Speaker 1: dot com. Isn't it true that it is believed that
15:19
Speaker 1: Kelly Cochrane used an electric saw known as a saw's all,
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Speaker 1: so husband Jason could cut up the corpse and then
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Speaker 1: they divided his body between garbage bags and through the
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Speaker 1: bags in the woods around the Iron River in Michigan's
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Speaker 1: Upper Peninsula. I believe that that's the theory cops used
15:42
Speaker 1: on the dismembering of the body, which because I was
15:44
Speaker 1: trying to describe some really hard thing to do, Sean.
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Speaker 1: That's correct, Nancy, and that's what dam has been reporting
15:52
Speaker 1: that the Cochrane said about dismembering Reagan's body. She later
15:56
Speaker 1: admitted to getting a cord for an electric cancer as
15:59
Speaker 1: you called it, this dorsal, and so Jason Cochrane could
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Speaker 1: indeed cut up the corpse. Now, the body was believed
16:06
Speaker 1: to have been divided amongst multiple garbage bags and thrown
16:09
Speaker 1: into the woods around Iron Michigan in the Upper Peninsula.
16:13
Speaker 1: Beagan was then reported missing a few days later, and
16:16
Speaker 1: his car was found abandoned at a park and rode
16:19
Speaker 1: a lot about four miles east of Iron River. Okay,
16:23
Speaker 1: So he's reported several days later, I guess when he
16:26
Speaker 1: doesn't show up where they had both worked. His car
16:29
Speaker 1: then found, as Shaun Walts tells us, at a parking
16:31
Speaker 1: ride about four miles east of the Iron River. Now,
16:36
Speaker 1: according to the local news, the Daily News, there police
16:40
Speaker 1: hone in on Kelly Cochrane because she's the last one
16:44
Speaker 1: to see the boyfriend, and remember she's still married this time.
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Speaker 1: Police search her home with the FBI, and they found nothing,
16:54
Speaker 1: absolutely nothing to Dr Brian Russell, lawyer and psychologist host
16:59
Speaker 1: are the hits reason I d fatal vows Dr Brian,
17:03
Speaker 1: can you imagine how difficult it must have been to
17:08
Speaker 1: clean up the scene of a dismemberment of the body.
17:12
Speaker 1: That leads me to think they took him somewhere else
17:14
Speaker 1: to dismember him, because they found nothing when they first
17:17
Speaker 1: went to search the home. Yeah, absolutely, if, if, if,
17:21
Speaker 1: what the neighbors heard with the power tools was the
17:26
Speaker 1: dismemberment going on in that house, it's almost and just
17:30
Speaker 1: got Morgan, of course, is the forensics expert here, but
17:34
Speaker 1: it's almost inconceivable in my experience that there would not
17:38
Speaker 1: be a trace of that activity on the scene. You know,
17:43
Speaker 1: this this case is so it is so morbidly fascinating
17:48
Speaker 1: because it really is like the movie and the musical
17:53
Speaker 1: Sweeney Todd Come to life, in which you know, of
17:56
Speaker 1: course that the husband played by Johnny Depp in movie
18:00
Speaker 1: was the barber, the demon barber of Fleet Street, who
18:03
Speaker 1: would kill the clients in the barber chair with the
18:06
Speaker 1: straight razor, and then the wife who had the bake
18:11
Speaker 1: bakery downstairs, would bake the remains into mincemeat pies and
18:16
Speaker 1: and serve them to uh serve them to customers. And
18:21
Speaker 1: there's this idea of of not only do you have
18:25
Speaker 1: a murderer or murderers, but you also have the additionally
18:29
Speaker 1: almost almost unfathomably grizzly pleasure that they take and then
18:34
Speaker 1: getting unsuspecting third parties to participate in their cannibalism unknowingly.
18:42
Speaker 1: And so you know, if I didn't know from being
18:45
Speaker 1: on Investigation Discovery for six years that the network is
18:49
Speaker 1: about real stories about real people, you know, you you
18:53
Speaker 1: would really just think that this is some kind of
18:55
Speaker 1: adaptation of Sweeney Todd. Just bring up the spect of
18:58
Speaker 1: Sweeney Todd. I hear, I hear you, so Dr Dr
19:02
Speaker 1: Brian Russell just got Morgan Shawn Walsh to form of
19:06
Speaker 1: Chief Laura Frizzo there an Iron river city. Where do
19:11
Speaker 1: you think they dismembered the body of the boyfriend? I
19:14
Speaker 1: think that they did it right there in the house,
19:17
Speaker 1: in the basement, like UM, we suspected um. You know,
19:21
Speaker 1: as you know, it's hard to um collect samples in
19:26
Speaker 1: you know, in concrete or areas of high iron um.
19:30
Speaker 1: And one thing that we did notice later UM on
19:34
Speaker 1: you know, subject coined searches in that house, UM, was
19:38
Speaker 1: that you know, the cochranes had these huge roles of
19:41
Speaker 1: plastic you know that you would generally use if you
19:44
Speaker 1: were going to um, you know, winter rise your windows
19:48
Speaker 1: or whatever. And so we have these huge roles of plastic.
19:52
Speaker 1: And one thing we noted in the basement later was,
19:56
Speaker 1: you know, why is there some of this plastic kind
19:59
Speaker 1: of hanging up in the rafters and and stapled up
20:02
Speaker 1: onto the rafters. UM so what wooden beams on the
20:05
Speaker 1: ceiling of the basement. And I kind of looked at
20:08
Speaker 1: that area and and realized that it's very very probable
20:14
Speaker 1: that you know, they had UM kind of like a
20:17
Speaker 1: little tent area there UM where they actually you know, wow,
20:22
Speaker 1: it is just like dexter that is exactly like the
20:25
Speaker 1: way Dexter with dismember bodies. Well, one thing to notice
20:28
Speaker 1: that that Kelly Cochrane has You know, she went to
20:31
Speaker 1: college for forensics um, and she has a degree in psychology.
20:37
Speaker 1: So um, this is someone you know who actually knew
20:41
Speaker 1: not only how to act in her interviews or um
20:44
Speaker 1: not to act um, but she also was very familiar
20:48
Speaker 1: with the forensic angle of things. Okay. So even though
20:52
Speaker 1: at the beginning police found nothing to suggest the murder
20:56
Speaker 1: had according to home, Cochrane gets aunts and she and
21:01
Speaker 1: her husband pack up and move to Indiana. Police go
21:06
Speaker 1: on with your investigation, and they believe that she is
21:11
Speaker 1: a person of interest. But a year passes and still
21:14
Speaker 1: they got nothing. Then take a listen to this one
21:19
Speaker 1: call Kelly Cochrane makes the day of her husband's death. Husband,
21:25
Speaker 1: This is like, well, he's breathing barely, I don't know
21:29
Speaker 1: a tongue he's throwing off, he's sweating. I need an
21:32
Speaker 1: ambulance right away. Okay. Are you in a hotel? Is
21:35
Speaker 1: that a hotel? No, I'm I'm at a home. Okay,
21:39
Speaker 1: And when old is the person? Just give me ambulance
21:43
Speaker 1: here now, Okay, stay on the line. With me. Okay,
21:49
Speaker 1: you said he's breathing, difficulty breathing. Okay, I can't understand
21:57
Speaker 1: what you're saying, difficulties breathing, sweating. Well, I'm on the
22:04
Speaker 1: phone with what Okay, I need an ambulance you right away.
22:16
Speaker 1: They have been dispatched, but I need you to stand
22:18
Speaker 1: on the line. She goes on to write, and I
22:20
Speaker 1: think I need to shrink on this, Dr Brian. She
22:23
Speaker 1: goes on too. Right, she holds a memorial service, writing
22:26
Speaker 1: on Facebook that his her husband's death was quote the
22:30
Speaker 1: hardest thing I will ever have to deal with. All Right,
22:34
Speaker 1: Dr Brian, we know in retrospect she killed her husband
22:38
Speaker 1: and she is writing on Facebook, this is the hardest
22:40
Speaker 1: thing I've ever had to deal with. Help me out, Brian. Well,
22:44
Speaker 1: you know, some of the most depraved killers that we
22:48
Speaker 1: see are actually quite good at manipulating other peoples. It's
22:52
Speaker 1: one of the hallmarks of the sociopath is that they
22:55
Speaker 1: actually understand pretty well what makes other people take it.
22:58
Speaker 1: And this is actually, this is actually, uh the kind
23:02
Speaker 1: of intelligence that we're really talking about when we talk
23:04
Speaker 1: about the sociopath. Many people say, oh, you know, sociopaths
23:08
Speaker 1: and psychopaths they're actually they're very intelligent, and and really
23:12
Speaker 1: that's not necessarily true in terms of intelligence like we
23:16
Speaker 1: would measure with an i Q test, like being able
23:18
Speaker 1: to do math problems and put puzzles together. Some of
23:21
Speaker 1: them are intelligent like that, and they're extremely dangerous because
23:25
Speaker 1: they can actually think of ways to to really minimize
23:29
Speaker 1: evidence and and reduce the chance of getting caught and
23:32
Speaker 1: do lots of damage before they have caught. But but
23:35
Speaker 1: how they're really intelligent is is emotionally intelligent. They are
23:39
Speaker 1: able to figure out, how do I manipulate other people
23:42
Speaker 1: into becoming my victims? And then after the fact, how
23:46
Speaker 1: do I manipulate other people into thinking that I am
23:50
Speaker 1: a victim myself or that I had nothing to do
23:52
Speaker 1: with this. You know, you might wonder what was the
23:54
Speaker 1: mode of the first time around when the boyfriend the
23:57
Speaker 1: lover was killed and now the husband, Well, maybe the
24:02
Speaker 1: two are linked regarding motive taken. Listen to what Hobart,
24:06
Speaker 1: Indiana police detective Jeremy Ogden says. And I remember the
24:11
Speaker 1: husband and the wife, Kelly moved to Indiana after the
24:15
Speaker 1: lover is murdered. Here's what Indiana police say. He and
24:18
Speaker 1: her husband had entered into this agreement on their wedding
24:23
Speaker 1: night that if one had an affair on the other,
24:27
Speaker 1: that it was their responsibility to kill the person that
24:30
Speaker 1: they had the affair with, and that if they didn't
24:33
Speaker 1: take care of their responsibility, then the other one could
24:35
Speaker 1: kill them. She's a very calculating, manipulative killer. I wouldn't
24:41
Speaker 1: necessarily put that number on it. I would say that,
24:45
Speaker 1: you know, I'm pretty positive that there are others to
24:48
Speaker 1: Shaun Walts with me daily mail dot com Sean. Okay,
24:52
Speaker 1: So the lover's murdered, She and the husband moved to Indiana.
24:57
Speaker 1: The husband suddenly dies of an her dose and she
25:01
Speaker 1: is plying the graving window. So how is she connected
25:07
Speaker 1: to his overdose? How do police know that was not
25:10
Speaker 1: an accident? Well, it's interesting. So you say that she
25:15
Speaker 1: moved to Indiana. You make it sound really lovely, Nancy,
25:18
Speaker 1: But in fact, she was spooked and her and her
25:20
Speaker 1: husband packed everything up as quickly as they couldn't. They
25:22
Speaker 1: moved to Lake Carnie, Indiana. The police continued their investigation,
25:26
Speaker 1: with Kelly listed a person of interest, and even though
25:29
Speaker 1: your past, they still had nothing. Then in February of
25:34
Speaker 1: Jason died of an apparent heroin overdose. Kelly held the
25:39
Speaker 1: memorial service, as you said, and she talked about how
25:41
Speaker 1: hard it was to deal with, but police still weren't
25:44
Speaker 1: buying it. Michigan authorities then charged Kelly with j with
25:49
Speaker 1: Reagan's death. UM, the U. S. Marshal Service tracted down
25:53
Speaker 1: in Kentucky, which she was arrested that April and taken
25:57
Speaker 1: into custody. But how did they do it? Chief red So,
26:01
Speaker 1: how did they determine that the husband died of a
26:06
Speaker 1: murder not an accidental O D So? I had been
26:10
Speaker 1: communicating with Hobart P. D UM from the time that
26:14
Speaker 1: Kelly and Jason fled Michigan after I did that initial
26:17
Speaker 1: search warrant and UM just keeping an eye on them
26:21
Speaker 1: and you know, kind of monitoring what they're doing and
26:24
Speaker 1: how they're living. UM, you know, because there were other
26:27
Speaker 1: things that we needed to take care of with them
26:29
Speaker 1: and we wanted to be able to locate them. So
26:32
Speaker 1: Hobart really UM kept an eye on things and worked
26:36
Speaker 1: with us quite closely. And so when Jason Cochrane died
26:42
Speaker 1: and we got word of that, there was actually a
26:46
Speaker 1: tip called into the FBI tipline as well as Hobart
26:50
Speaker 1: p D from a friend of Jason Cochran's who who said,
26:55
Speaker 1: you know, my friend is is dead. I just got news,
26:58
Speaker 1: and you know, his message was, I feel like something's
27:02
Speaker 1: not right. I feel like the life might have been involved.
27:05
Speaker 1: And of course getting that that call on the tipline
27:08
Speaker 1: was huge because UM, investigators weren't called to the scene
27:12
Speaker 1: of Jason's death, and and had that not happened, it
27:15
Speaker 1: could have been you know, the medical examiner may have
27:19
Speaker 1: not done as thorough a search for the indication of
27:24
Speaker 1: a homicide versus the overdose. And so because of those things, UM,
27:29
Speaker 1: Detective Agen jumped in. He attended the autopsy. UM they didn't,
27:34
Speaker 1: you know, a very thorough examination. UM. And then from
27:39
Speaker 1: that point Detective Ogten just jumped right in and and investigated.
27:45
Speaker 1: This is what we learned. Police in Indiana gets suspicious
27:50
Speaker 1: that her version of what happened to night her husband died.
27:54
Speaker 1: It kept changing, and as Chief Rizzo told you, investigators
28:00
Speaker 1: were not called to the scene of the overdose because
28:03
Speaker 1: they thought it was an accident overdose. They got their
28:07
Speaker 1: uh E m T s found Jason unresponsive, They could
28:10
Speaker 1: not revive him, and it looked like he died of
28:12
Speaker 1: an overdose, But when he goes for autopsy, the Indiana
28:17
Speaker 1: Lake County Corner discover the husband, Jason, did not die
28:22
Speaker 1: of an overdose. He died from asphyxiation, not heroin. That
28:30
Speaker 1: is how they knew it was not an accidental overdose.
28:35
Speaker 1: It was a strangulation or a smothering. Now the Postphibian
28:43
Speaker 1: reports that it's believed she Kelly delivered an overdose of
28:48
Speaker 1: heroin to her husband and then put her hands on
28:53
Speaker 1: his neck, nose, and mouth until he died about one
28:58
Speaker 1: minute later. That is how we know it was not
29:04
Speaker 1: an o d it was asphyxiation. To Joseph Scott Morgan,
29:10
Speaker 1: a limited question, how can you tell someone has been
29:14
Speaker 1: smothered or strangled? Debt. In the event that someone has
29:19
Speaker 1: been smothered or strangled, you're gonna look in the eyes
29:23
Speaker 1: for particular hemorrhages, and also on the surface of the neck.
29:27
Speaker 1: If they did an autopsy, there might be hemorrhage into
29:30
Speaker 1: the small muscles in the neck as well. In this
29:33
Speaker 1: particular case, take a listen to Hobart, Indiana Police detective
29:39
Speaker 1: Jeremy Ogden. She put it back on her husband as
29:43
Speaker 1: calling him, you know a monster, maybe possibly two different
29:47
Speaker 1: people on the side of one person. And uh and
29:50
Speaker 1: I think the judge called it right after her statement
29:52
Speaker 1: was over with. The judge said, you know, he feels
29:55
Speaker 1: the same as probably most of the people in the
29:57
Speaker 1: room that that she's the monster. To Dr Brian Russell,
30:01
Speaker 1: lawyer and psychologist on Discoveries Fatal Vow series, how do
30:06
Speaker 1: you get to this point in a marriage where the
30:10
Speaker 1: two of you were cheating, or one of you is
30:12
Speaker 1: cheating and you have a quote pact to kill the
30:16
Speaker 1: other everybody you you sleep with that the two of
30:18
Speaker 1: you will then kill them. It's crazy, Dr Brian, But
30:21
Speaker 1: these people were not crazy. Yeah, you know, we've talked
30:26
Speaker 1: on this show so many times about and certainly that's
30:31
Speaker 1: what Fatal Vows is all about, right, marriages that that
30:35
Speaker 1: have ended in some kind of a murder of somebody involved.
30:39
Speaker 1: And we've talked about in those contexts of the fact
30:43
Speaker 1: that when you have a cheating situation in a marriage,
30:49
Speaker 1: everybody involved is in danger. That the cheating spouses in danger,
30:53
Speaker 1: the cheated a hunt spouses in danger, the person with
30:56
Speaker 1: whom the cheating spouse is cheating is in danger, and
30:59
Speaker 1: and it's it is uh, you know, a morbidly fascinating
31:05
Speaker 1: illustration of of the fatal vows situation here, because what
31:10
Speaker 1: we appear to have initially is a cheating situation in
31:15
Speaker 1: which the justification then for killing that the affair partner
31:21
Speaker 1: is that, you know, we're gonna make this right somehow,
31:25
Speaker 1: We're going to give the husband the satisfaction of seeing
31:30
Speaker 1: the fair partner killed and dismembered, maybe even consumed, Okay,
31:37
Speaker 1: And then once that's done, then the husband becomes the target.
31:43
Speaker 1: And so you know, what we have here is this
31:46
Speaker 1: love triangle, and and only one of the three uh
31:51
Speaker 1: endpoints is still around, and that is this woman who
31:55
Speaker 1: apparently she she comes up with whatever reasons she needs
32:00
Speaker 1: needs to wait. Wait wait, wait, wait wait White Laura
32:03
Speaker 1: Frisi with us former Iron River City, Michigan police chief.
32:08
Speaker 1: You actually had a chance to sit down and speak
32:12
Speaker 1: with Kelly cochrane. What did she say to you? Um?
32:15
Speaker 1: I Actually I sat down with her while she was
32:18
Speaker 1: in her jail cell the very first night she was
32:20
Speaker 1: brought to Michigan from Kentucky. Um, And she told me
32:27
Speaker 1: a little bit about her life. She kind of opened up.
32:29
Speaker 1: It was a different side of her. I'm not sure
32:31
Speaker 1: why she was presenting that UM, but through that discussion
32:35
Speaker 1: she told me many things about herself and how you know,
32:38
Speaker 1: she was born the way she is. Nothing that happened
32:41
Speaker 1: in her life to cause her to be that way.
32:43
Speaker 1: She doesn't have feelings. She doesn't feel sadness or remorse. UM.
32:47
Speaker 1: And you know, actually the following day we continued our
32:51
Speaker 1: discussion and I asked her, you know, how do you
32:56
Speaker 1: choose your victims? And her answer to me was opportunity. Opportunity. Wow.
33:03
Speaker 1: Listen to this. At the Caspian pit behind her house,
33:07
Speaker 1: Kelly shows police where she and Jason tossed part of
33:11
Speaker 1: the murder weapon. That's a big stone directly in front
33:17
Speaker 1: of me, right before that red graft or whatever that is,
33:20
Speaker 1: so about in that area a little to the right
33:24
Speaker 1: and backward us a little. That's not far because I
33:27
Speaker 1: figured I'd never tell anybody. When the Michigan State Police
33:34
Speaker 1: divemaster called me and let me know that they found
33:37
Speaker 1: the gun, I was extremely excited. Obviously for me. It
33:42
Speaker 1: was validation. At Kelly's old house where she claims her
33:47
Speaker 1: late husband Jason Shunt Chris, Kelly points out a crucial
33:52
Speaker 1: piece of physical evidence overlooked when investigators conducted multiple searches. Yeah,
34:02
Speaker 1: I know what you're talking about. You're saying you use them,
34:09
Speaker 1: Kelly says. Jason made her news forceps to try and
34:14
Speaker 1: pull the bullet out of Chris Reagan's scull. Did you
34:21
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34:23
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35:33
Speaker 1: Shaun Walts from dailymail dot com, who's been on the
35:36
Speaker 1: story from the beginning. We're talking about a young woman
35:40
Speaker 1: who injects her husband with a lethal dose of heroin,
35:44
Speaker 1: then smothers him with a pillow, who may have killed
35:48
Speaker 1: others and even served her lover's remains at a barbecue. Sean,
35:56
Speaker 1: why do you believe she is now linked to about
36:00
Speaker 1: nine other murders at the minimum. I mean, it's frightening, Nancy.
36:06
Speaker 1: It's beyond frightening that this is the case, because, as
36:09
Speaker 1: you said, as someone else just pointed out, it would
36:11
Speaker 1: make her azero killer. But she she's making these claims.
36:15
Speaker 1: So we just have to see if this is the case.
36:18
Speaker 1: I mean, you've got brilliant investigators on the case here,
36:21
Speaker 1: and how great it is to have them on the
36:22
Speaker 1: call today. But I mean, this will lead us to
36:25
Speaker 1: the determination if this is the case. I mean, I
36:29
Speaker 1: it takes my breath away to be honest, you know, Sean,
36:33
Speaker 1: another fatality in this case was what happened to Chief
36:38
Speaker 1: Laura Frizzo because, according to the city manager, she was
36:46
Speaker 1: quote bullheaded in her investigation style and ended up choosing
36:53
Speaker 1: between her job as police chief and catching a killer.
36:59
Speaker 1: Listen to this. My name is Laura Frizzo. I used
37:03
Speaker 1: to be the police chief here in the Iron River.
37:07
Speaker 1: But I had to make a choice. I could either
37:10
Speaker 1: remain the chief or I could catch a killer. Police
37:15
Speaker 1: and Iron River aren't asking for help. You know anything
37:18
Speaker 1: about his whereabouts. You asked to contact the police department.
37:21
Speaker 1: He's gone. I had no doubt in my mind something
37:24
Speaker 1: terrible has happened. It's not a missing person case. This
37:29
Speaker 1: is you're telling you that's blood right. We got a
37:33
Speaker 1: positive reaction. Carry why she was the mastermind behind it all.
37:40
Speaker 1: She doesn't have feeling. She doesn't feel standness, she doesn't
37:44
Speaker 1: feel remorse. I wasn't gonna give up pretty night. You
37:48
Speaker 1: know that not in my DNA Shawn Walls da limail
37:51
Speaker 1: dot com. Did you hear that, Nancy. If something was
37:55
Speaker 1: to happen to a member of my family and God,
37:58
Speaker 1: I pray to God that it never does, I would
38:00
Speaker 1: want Chief Frizzo on the case. Chief Frizzo is one
38:03
Speaker 1: of those dedicated police chiefs that you want in your corner,
38:07
Speaker 1: and I think what happened to her was a travesty.
38:11
Speaker 1: And I think that any police department in this country
38:16
Speaker 1: or around the world would be lucky to have someone
38:18
Speaker 1: like Chief Frizzo running that apartment with me is Chief Frizzo,
38:23
Speaker 1: along with jos Scott Morgan and Dr Brian Russell, Laura Frizzo.
38:28
Speaker 1: It hurts me that, you know, not just you, but
38:34
Speaker 1: very often when women stick to their guns, their quote
38:37
Speaker 1: bullheaded or a bit you ended up being related of
38:44
Speaker 1: your duties, just as just as Kelly Cochrane admits to
38:50
Speaker 1: having other quote friends buried in Indiana, Michigan, Tennessee and Minnesota.
38:57
Speaker 1: Looks like you weren't bullheaded, you were, right, Chief Razo. Yeah,
39:02
Speaker 1: I mean there is a lot to that other part
39:08
Speaker 1: of life for me. Um that it's obviously been killing
39:12
Speaker 1: me because I am very I tend to be very
39:14
Speaker 1: ospelf and honest forthcoming. But um, unfortunately, I you know,
39:20
Speaker 1: I'm going to have to discuss that at a later date,
39:22
Speaker 1: and there's a lot to be said about it. It's, um,
39:26
Speaker 1: it's killing me that I can't discuss it, and but
39:30
Speaker 1: it is actually it's in litigation. I understand, I understand that.
39:34
Speaker 1: And that's a whole another tangent, a whole another side
39:38
Speaker 1: avenue to this case. What happens. What we're talking about
39:44
Speaker 1: now is are there other victims of Kelly cochrane and
39:49
Speaker 1: Laura Frazzo. You were on the case and closer to
39:51
Speaker 1: the case than anyone explained to me. Why you believe
39:55
Speaker 1: there are so many other victims, maybe past a dozen.
40:00
Speaker 1: Well again, I mean I honestly, you know, two to
40:03
Speaker 1: three months into the initial investigation of Chris Reagan's disappearance
40:07
Speaker 1: and going through you know, documents, phone records, UM, and
40:13
Speaker 1: and other things. UM, it was very apparent that, UM,
40:19
Speaker 1: these people were were good at what they did. UM,
40:23
Speaker 1: this couldn't have been a first time for them. And
40:26
Speaker 1: I adamantly believe that there could have been something shortly
40:30
Speaker 1: before they left Indiana to come to Michigan, UM that
40:34
Speaker 1: caused them to move the way they did. But I
40:36
Speaker 1: believe that, UM, for as well as they were able
40:39
Speaker 1: to compose them selves, answer questions, clean up, UM, this
40:45
Speaker 1: is not there's no way this is the first time
40:46
Speaker 1: for these people. So learning later on, you know, a
40:50
Speaker 1: year later that there's potentially other victims coming from her
40:55
Speaker 1: own mouths. Um, there's no doubt in my mind that
40:59
Speaker 1: there are other victims. Guys. There's a two part documentary
41:02
Speaker 1: airing on Investigation Discovery and it tells Kelly cochrane story
41:07
Speaker 1: through the eyes of the Iron River Michigan Police chief.
41:13
Speaker 1: Then Laura Friso, who was pulled into the case after
41:17
Speaker 1: the lover Chris Reagan goes missing. I mean, question Laura Friso,
41:24
Speaker 1: what DoD Reagan's family have to say about all this. Well,
41:27
Speaker 1: that's why the opportunity was so good for for Kelly Cochrane,
41:31
Speaker 1: because you know, Chris Regan was new to the area
41:33
Speaker 1: in Upper Michigan. Um. He really he had no family there.
41:37
Speaker 1: He had only been there, um, approximately nine and a
41:41
Speaker 1: half ten months, um, and so he really didn't have
41:46
Speaker 1: an He was a very private man, so he really
41:48
Speaker 1: didn't have friends. He didn't socialize. Um. So um. His
41:52
Speaker 1: his two boys were young, um at the time. I
41:56
Speaker 1: mean they're still young, but they were you know, early twenties. Um.
42:00
Speaker 1: And they um, you know, their parents, their father and
42:05
Speaker 1: mother were divorced, you know a few years before so
42:09
Speaker 1: um for them, Um, they were just kind of in
42:13
Speaker 1: a state of shock. They didn't know really how to react.
42:16
Speaker 1: And the first time I met them and saw that look,
42:19
Speaker 1: and I just I felt so sorry for them, thinking,
42:23
Speaker 1: you know, they have no idea how to handle this,
42:25
Speaker 1: They have no idea what direction to go in. UM.
42:28
Speaker 1: And they're very private there. Um. You know, every time
42:32
Speaker 1: I would learn a new detail, UM, they are the
42:35
Speaker 1: first ones I would contact. UM. I wanted them to
42:38
Speaker 1: be prepared for what was going to be said or
42:42
Speaker 1: what you know, and and how to avoid it if
42:44
Speaker 1: they didn't want to hear it, you know, But I
42:47
Speaker 1: tried to keep them prepared every step of the way.
42:49
Speaker 1: Isn't it true, Laura that Cochrane's own brother says he
42:54
Speaker 1: believes his sister is a serial killer. And then when
42:58
Speaker 1: your own brother says that, that's you know, the first
43:03
Speaker 1: time I met with her brother, UM, I asked him.
43:07
Speaker 1: The first thing I asked him was you know, how
43:09
Speaker 1: long have you known that your sister is this way?
43:13
Speaker 1: And he said, you mean a sociopath? Um, that was
43:16
Speaker 1: his response. So they had they had a good relationship,
43:20
Speaker 1: they did. I mean, he's considerably younger than her, UM,
43:24
Speaker 1: so a lot of his memories are you know, from
43:26
Speaker 1: when he was a young a young boy. Um. But
43:30
Speaker 1: you know, he for whatever reason knew that, you know,
43:33
Speaker 1: she had the potential to be exactly what she is.
43:36
Speaker 1: It's something that he sensed from a young age. Wow.
43:39
Speaker 1: So she was that way her whole life from what
43:44
Speaker 1: his you know, from what his account of things are. Yes,
43:47
Speaker 1: even even listening to Kelly, you know, I have discussions
43:50
Speaker 1: with her mom, you know, on the phone. UM. I mean,
43:55
Speaker 1: her family knew that there was something with her forever. Um.
43:58
Speaker 1: I just don't think they line of course, who would
44:03
Speaker 1: what her potential was. It's a showdown between good and
44:06
Speaker 1: evil serial killer Kelly Cochrane versus the then Iron City
44:12
Speaker 1: Police Chief Laura Frizzo, and it will all play out
44:16
Speaker 1: in a documentary on investigation, discovery and the search for
44:22
Speaker 1: her other victims goes on. Take a listen to what Hobart,
44:26
Speaker 1: Indiana Police Detective Jeremy Ogden says. I have two cases
44:31
Speaker 1: that I've asked her about. UM, I have nothing else
44:37
Speaker 1: that I can provide on those situations, But you never know.
44:41
Speaker 1: One day Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing off, goodbye friend.
44:52
Speaker 1: Did you know a recent law can leave your personal
44:55
Speaker 1: data exposed online for anybody to find. If you turned
45:00
Speaker 1: on the news lately, you know the Internet has created
45:02
Speaker 1: a dangerous new world. It's time you take back the
45:06
Speaker 1: power by using a new website called truth Finder. Have
45:10
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45:36
Speaker 1: Visit truth finder dot com slash Nancy, enter your own name,
45:40
Speaker 1: get started.