Latest / C Tolle Run / 454: Jessica Kain - Anything Can Happen

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454: Jessica Kain - Anything Can Happen · C Tolle Run

• Carrie: Jessica, welcome to C Tally Run. Hi. I am so excited. Like, okay, I'm just gonna I'm gonna talk about Allison Wade a lot during this because that's kind of really where I got to know you. Like, was just by wa ⁓ reading her newsletter. And I love Allison. She's been through a lot this year. So big shout out to Allison and her family and all that she does for the track and field world. But yeah, really great article there a few weeks ago and just kind of gave us a little background. So C Tolle Run: Hey everyone, I'm Olympian Carrie Tullofson and welcome to the See Tolly Run Podcast. Today I'm really looking forward to getting to know Jessica Kane, a young woman who is starting to turn some heads in the running world. After reading Allison Wade's article on fast women, I just knew I had to chat with Jessica myself. Jessica is a professional runner and a fitness model who lives and trains in California. She's worked with some of the biggest brands in the running and activeware space. Jessica Kain: Hi, so happy to be here. C Tolle Run: All while continuing to chase some pretty big goals of her own on the track. And this season things have really started to click. Jessica came into her first USATF outdoor championship, seated 21st in the 1500 meters, and she walked away, or should I say ran away, with sixth in the country. Yep, she was sixth. She also lowered her personal best to 406.21, more than six seconds faster than the PR she carried out of college. Carrie: All of my basically all my info is coming from fast women. Yeah, I did. You really did. She is great at that. Yeah. And she just finds like, no wonder why she why she was a great coach was because she finds like the stories that we all need to hear. And yours is one of them. And really, I'm gonna just start off with USAs. Like, congratulations! Jessica Kain: I love that. I know. We had a really good conversation actually. She was awesome. Mm-hmm. Thank you. I know it was so exciting. C Tolle Run: But what I love most about Jessica's story is that this breakthrough didn't just happen right away. She wasn't an NCAA champion. She considered walking away from the professional running world. Instead, she decided to give herself one more chance and really get after it. So today, I want to hear all about that decision. What has changed this past year? Balancing running with modeling and work, growing up in an incredibly athletic family, and why she now believes. Carrie: I love how she she wrote that you are twenty first out of twenty six like seed wise coming in and then you end up sixth. So like let's hear all about I'm gonna get into your story, but I wanna hear about this awesome weekend just like I said, just a few weeks ago. Jessica Kain: Yes. I know, ⁓ my god, it was so exciting. It was crazy. I think the coolest part about it was like I was also I was like 36th on the list. Like I wasn't even sure I was gonna make USAs. I was like, ⁓ god, this is I mean, I I knew if there was a few people to scratch, which like usually there are. ⁓ I mean, everyone's running so fast this season and in general that it's just like I had run 409 at that point, and I was like, ⁓ my god, I hope I get in with four ⁓ nine. And so it was just one of those things where I like once I got C Tolle Run: That the LA Olympics in 2028 could be in her future. So exciting! So let's get after it. Jessica Kain: was like, okay, anything can happen. Like literally anything can happen at any race. And I I didn't let like the I would say the size of the race or like the magnitude of it being USA's make me scared. I was just like, okay, let's just go out there and see what we can do. And I honestly think the biggest part that C Tolle Run: Thanks so much for joining me today and see Tolly Ron. My guest was Jessica Kane. You can find her on social media at hits Jess, H ⁓ I I T S S J E S S ⁓ or Jessica Kane, but with Ks. So J E S S I C A K A I N. Yep, lots to get through there, but Carrie: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Jessica Kain: was so like crucial for me was like I haven't been able to get into races of that caliber and like C Tolle Run: Find her on social media. You can also just look up Jessica Kane. Before we go, a big shout out to Rundot for supporting the show, to Andrew Harley and Sarah Bernie, the amazing producers behind CTOLIRN, but also the Try Dot and Rundot podcast, which I highly recommend. Also, thanks to Tailwind Nutrition for supporting this summer and early fall. If you'd like to try out and order anything through Tailwind, head on over to TailwindNutrition.com and use the code TOLI. That's T-O-L-L-E 20. Jessica Kain: Not because I don't want to, but just because I hadn't run that time yet or whatever. And like USA's was the first time where I was like able to really just level up and like get in a race with all of those top women in the in the country. And I knew that I could compete. I knew I could be right there. And so it was just like such a test to myself of like, okay, now that there wasn't like certain seed times that I had to hit to get in, it was just I mean there was, but I in like just trials and finals both, it was like such amazing women. Everyone had in Carrie: Yeah, yeah. C Tolle Run: Tolly20 to get 20% off your order. And if you're a fan of the pod, we'd love your support. Please take a moment to leave a rating and a review and share it with all your friends. you have to do is visit ctollyron.com/slash review, and it'll bring you right to our show's page. Jessica Kain: those races was just top top talent and just like runs so well and so it was just like the coolest experience to be there and then to also be able to like excel and compete at that level and it was just kind of like that moment of like okay I know I can do this. I know that I'm like meant to be go and compete with the best of the best and like it was my first USA's ever so that was crazy. And like it just was so exciting the whole weekend being in New York City and everything my brother and my mom were there and it was like so fun. Carrie: Yeah. C Tolle Run: We are on YouTube, Facebook, X, and Instagram at Ctollerun and at Carrie Tullifson. And you can visit us anytime at ctolerun.com. Thank you so much for joining us today. And don't forget to get after it. Carrie: ⁓ nice. Yeah. I mean it is wild because you do. You PR'd you came in with the four nine. You ran four ⁓ six in the f in the rounds, like in the first heat. And that is wild. Like the I I don't know if I've ever had a race where I PR'd in the rounds like that, but I've had like good solid racing where I had good positioning or I maybe won that heat like pretty easy, like things like that. But for you to take off Jessica Kain: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Totally. Carrie: Three seconds in the in the rounds. Like you must have been like, okay. ⁓ Jessica Kain: I know. It was just so crazy out 'cause I was in heat two and so I was like, Okay, I know what I have to run. I and like walking out to the track and f heat one I just finished and I was like I was like, ⁓ my god, I have to run four ⁓ seven if I wanna qualify. And so in that moment I was like, Looks like I have to PR by three seconds and like this is all going through my head as I'm like walking out to the line. Carrie: And were you calm? Cause I think that that is a good story for so many young athletes to hear, or old athletes to be honest. Like when you see those times and you can do the calculation fast, which some athletes can't. Like I was one that was just just race, don't think, like, don't look at the heat one ⁓ results. But how did you calm your brain enough to be like, okay, let's do it? Jessica Kain: Yeah. Yeah. Ya, ya. ⁓ my gosh, I don't even know. I feel like I've always been a calm racer and also just like confident racer no matter what, like every year, which has been awesome. And I feel like this year especially I've really like stepped into this kind of new version of myself running wise. And that race was like so just the beginning, which is so awesome. I was like, I was so calm on the line, and it was kind of just like this decision that I made where I was like, okay, I know what I have to do. And Carrie: Okay. Yeah. Jessica Kain: We went out pretty I mean it was a negative split race which is crazy but it also was just like I didn't even know until 200 to go that I was gonna run 406. I remember I like glanced at the clock and I was still like I think an eighth at that point and I had 200 to go and I was like okay I actually only have to run I was like doing the math so fast like 30 something if I wanna break if I wanna run like anywhere around 407 and so I was like okay and then it was the internal decision where I was like I have to do this like I have to do this Carrie: That's and in four minutes you had all kinds of things going on in your brain. ⁓ That's why math class is important, people, because we can then do math real fast. ⁓ I I love that. I love it. ⁓ you get to the final and it's it's crowded the entire way. And we just had Emily Mackay on and we were talking about, you know, her getting third and but being right there. Jessica Kain: Yes. Yeah, yeah. All kinds of things. But I know. Track not. Track not. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Carrie: With Nikki Hilts and Addie Wiley, and then you guys were right on their tails as well. So the best thing about it is yes, you got six, which you are running against some of the best in the world, like medalists in the world. very, very fast times that they all have next to their names. And you run and you basically go to toe to toe with all of them. You run two ⁓ five for the last eight hundred, like faster than your PR for the last eight hundred. Jessica Kain: Ya. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know, right? Like, sort of. I really want to go run an eight hundred. I think I could go like two, I think, with like Carrie: Have you wrapped your brain around that yet? Jessica Kain: just at least two flat, which would be amazing. I would be so happy. But to run a 205 at the end of that, I was like, what? That was obviously like I train solo and so getting in those races, I I don't know what happens, like so many decisions, but I feel like racing is so mental. And so in that race when I was just like when we went out in 71, I was like, ⁓ my God, okay. I know that these women have like such crazy turnover and they're gonna be able to close in like a 55 if they need to and I personally don't think I could close in a 55. I can close in a 60 probably, but still like it would be just a big difference if it was gonna turn into like a 400 race. And I honestly think that if I didn't make that move, I probably wouldn't have gotten as wouldn't have placed as well as I did just because I know all of those people have such fast turnover and a lot of them have like really fast 800 PRs. For me, I was like really focusing on the 15 this year. And so I didn't run any eight hundreds or anything and I was kind of just like shot in the dark, you know? And the that like when I made that move to go and just kind of control the race for a second, it was just like the best feeling because I was like, okay, I'm not like gonna sit on the back burner and let all these people just come around me. Like I know that I can at least hang for 600 at like a really strong pace. And like we obviously were already kind of going into that with 800 to go and then 600 to go, it was like we were like charging. And then 400 to go they kind of took off because like I said, all three of those went And have like insane turnover. And so I will get there in a year or so to that turnover. But it's just in the race, that was like, I mean, I'm really happy. Obviously, I would have liked, you always want more. You always want more, but yeah, but still super, super happy with like just how it went and being able to just like compete. And it was just such a step in like my confidence and everything, just being like, okay. Carrie: Yeah, always. Mm-hmm. Jessica Kain: That was awesome. And now I'm gonna go to Europe and try to run a lower four, ⁓ which I so know that I can. Just maybe not negative split at two ⁓ five. Maybe more even splits. Carrie: Okay. Ha ha But the thing that you have now is that you know you can do that. And I think that's really important. And that's what, you know, maybe the top three at least in that race, they have so much experience and they can run any which way. And that's the confidence level that you need to have at this level, right? And I think that that's what's interesting. And I that to me seems like what has changed for you. And do you think it's been that one race, or I guess I should say that those two races. Jessica Kain: Mm-hmm. Yep. Carrie: ⁓ the rounds and the final or has it been something that's been clicking in practice? Like talk a little bit about that because you almost walked away from the sport. You were like almost done. And then you have s like you said you stayed in the San Diego area and Cenitas for those of you who don't know where it's around San Diego. ⁓ you're s with your college coach. So like talk about this like process of college running and then like where you are now Jessica Kain: Yeah. Carrie: What has changed for you to be now one of the best in the US? Jessica Kain: Yeah, I I I mean it's crazy. Like when I graduated college, I was like, I know I wanna run pro, but I had only run 412. And so it's obviously like fast, but not not the level that I needed to be at. And so I signed with Socony, just they had a like cum it was like a I don't know if I'm even allowed to talk about it yet, two years. It was a good deal, but it was obviously intro and very small because I hadn't run super fast. But I was just like really excited to get my foot in the door and Then it was like, okay, graduated college, was on a full ride scholarship, dropped, got dropped, I mean, finished school. So it was like, okay, no more scholarship. Had to basically figure out like getting a job, being financially stable, like trying to train. It was just so much change in like one s like six month gap span where I was also trying to pursue professional running, where I was just like, ⁓ my god, I have no idea what I'm doing. Like, I'm just restarting like doing all my training solo. I was assistant coaching at STOC, which was great because I got to at least like work with the girls there and like some of them were my same teammates. ⁓ and so that was really helpful. But it still just felt like I felt so all over the place. I like really and I ran the slowest I had run in years. Like I think I ran 421 or something. 422. And I was like, ⁓ no. Carrie: Yeah. Going the wrong way, maybe. Jessica Kain: I was like Yes, yes, exactly. And so that was like so tough mentally because I was like, Wow, I w should I stop this? Like I love it so much. But there was also I was dealing with like little injuries and obviously when you're dealing with injuries, you're trying to like pay your way through life. Also working now like a lot full time I work in social media. Carrie: Okay. Where were you working? Jessica Kain: I work in social media so I just Yeah. Yeah. On a luckily like little bits of a smaller level where I have more free time and like more Yeah. But I was like just so busy and there was so much happening and so it was really, really hard to excel on the track and then like travel to races and get myself there and so Carrie: ⁓ you still are doing that as well. Okay. I see. Jessica Kain: ⁓ yeah, it was just like it was so much. And I realized, I don't know at what point through all of that, that I was like, this is like a commitment that I'm so ready to make, and I'm really like ready to just kind of go all in. And like through that one year of injuries and kind of just like uncertainty I found at some point just like the love for the sport through just like some easy runs. I wasn't injured. I like got I basic I think I took what was it? Like two months off. And so I really like just fully reset and was like, we're gonna go into this next season with Game plan, more or less. But it was more of like, I'm doing this because I love it, not because I have to do it. Like no one was paying me a bunch of money to go and race. No one was paying me a bunch of money to go and run. I was just literally out there because I genuinely just like love the sport and I love the community and I love the people that I've met through the sport. And I love working with like younger women and teaching them how to be more confident. And I was doing that a lot as like an assistant coach, but then also once I stopped assistant coaching to really just focus. Carrie: Mm. Jessica Kain: ⁓ launched this little online coaching app where it's been where it's been so it's been great because it's like super flexible and I'll be able to work with like women one-on-one ⁓ remotely just like giving them confidence tips and some race strategy and that's been so awesome. So I like through all of that after graduating in that one year of just like madness and like no success, I really just kind of reevaluated and was like what do I want to like give this sport and like what am I willing to kind of put into it and r since then it's just been so many wins. We I went to Boulder this summer for a month to train and that was like so beneficial. And just Carrie: ⁓ Who are you at there? Jessica Kain: Literally just solo, my boyfriend and I drove out and we had we were there for like, yeah, a month before Portland track fest. And so then when I ran four ⁓ nine, I just ⁓ and I was with Current Leeds. I signed well, signed kind of with currently, I don't know what the exact like it's not some not a really big contract, but they basically I'm running for them right now. And it's been Carrie: Mm-hmm. Okay. And it's called currently. cool. Okay. Jessica Kain: Yes, currently running. It's like a smaller brand. It's but what I was wearing in that green kit and everything that I was in, yeah. So they're based in well, there's they started in Santa Cruz, but now it's based in LA. And so it's just like on the up and up, but amazing stuff, amazing products. And also just the team practice is basically this Carrie: Yeah. Yeah. Jessica Kain: professional team where I think we had eight athletes compete under currently running at USA's eight or nine and everyone did really, really well. So that was awesome and super cool. ⁓ but yeah so it was just like I wasn't with Socene anymore. It was a one year contract and so that was up. And so I was really just in this space of like Carrie: ⁓ Okay. Yeah. Jessica Kain: I'm doing this because I love it, not because not for anyone else. And I think that is what helped so much. Like that helped me really just take off the external pressure that I was probably just putting on myself and really like I'm only here because I want to be here. And now with like the way that this past season has gone and I'm gonna go race at n ⁓ in New York at the fifth Ave Mile and in Europe. Yay! Yay! So excited. Carrie: Mm. I'll there. I'll be chatting about you. And then you're gonna go to Europe after that or before it? Okay. Jessica Kain: No before, before. Yeah. But yeah, so that was probably a lot. But Okay, good. Carrie: No, it was good. I mean, this is a thing. Like this is a platform for you to be able to share. And that's why I have C Tali Run, to be honest. I wanna be able to tell the story. And this is great for me to to hear a little bit about that. I mean, there was a ⁓ quote that you said that you felt a little scattered, and I think that's what you just explained to me. And that's that is something that's really hard. And I think people often get lost when they are someone maybe ⁓ Jessica Kain: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Carrie: Like you that are wondering if we should really do this and trying to figure out that path if you don't get that contract, which not a lot of people get those contracts. You know, that it there's maybe a little bit more than when I was coming out of school, but still I think it's so important, Jessica. And I love that you have all of these different talents that you can rely on if you don't get that contract. And I also think people can't rely on that contract because it can get taken away or it can be reduced. And so Jessica Kain: Yeah. Totally. Totally. Carrie: Being able to build this resume, build these different traits that you have is really, really good. And it also helps your running 'cause it gives you something else to look to or to do during the day. Jessica Kain: Yes. I agree, yeah. I like honestly I love working I love I mean I love working. I also love running and I think there's there's time in the day to do a lot of things. ⁓ obviously I would love more time to just be able to like sleep and run. But there's always I think there's always like a good balance that you can have. And I've been really, really good on like being able to balance like rest is so important to me. I'm sleeping like nine hours a night this year, which has been a change I think, and like also has probably helped my running a lot. ⁓ my workouts are like really Carrie: Sure. Yep. It's great. Yeah. Jessica Kain: really hard but then I take my recovery days like semi easy. And yeah, I think like this next season I'm just so excited because it's like now that I'm at this level, I get to just really like hop in a bunch of races, get in those top heats, and then like actually just compete and make more of a name for myself, which I feel like is this like that's this this coming season. It's gonna be really, really big. And then going into LA twenty twenty eight and like I'm just so excited because if I can Carrie: ⁓ for sure. Jessica Kain: hop in some European races or you know, better my PR down to even like anywhere around four. That's the goal. And then get in a diamond league or two and hopefully be working with a good sponsor who I can really just like charge with. Yeah. Yeah. Carrie: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I think it's great. And it's I mean, just putting it out there into the universe for you to remind yourself, like, I've actually told people this that I really want to go for it. And it's not that long. I mean, it's two years away. Jessica Kain: Yeah, it's not that long. It's crazy. It's gonna come up so fast. Yeah. Carrie: Yeah. Yeah. Well tell me a little bit about how you got into the sport because from what I've read and heard, I mean, sounds like you have quite the athletic family. So it's no surprise that you are an athlete, but you've you've tried other things besides just running. So like tell me about your your family and and how this whole like, you know, California gal got running fast in circles. Jessica Kain: Yeah. Yeah. Yes, my family? Yeah. Yeah. They're so my family's so funny. They are like I mean, they've been athletes their entire life as well. Both my mom and dad. My mom had a volleyball background and played at UCSB and my dad had a water polo and like swimming background. And so they both went to UCSB, but after college they got in my dad got into triathlon and my mom Carrie: My gosh. Jessica Kain: As well, but she was more into like cyclocross. That was kind of her thing. And so I know they were badass for sure. Carrie: Like, also no fear. Jessica Kain: Yeah, no fear at all. Like both both of my parents are they have like crazy, crazy stories of all their years of racing. And like my mom was she signed with Ralph Lauren Polo Sport for their first team, like their first USA team. And so she was with them for I wanna say like almost 10 years. Like she was with them for a while. And then my dad, so it was first just a women's team, and then they turned it into a triathlon team. Carrie: ⁓ my gosh. Jessica Kain: like cyclocross try. And so then my dad also signed with Pelt Polo Sport. And so that was their sponsor for years. And they were both just traveling and racing. And my mom, she went on to like race of women's tour de France and is on X-Terra's Hall of Fame in for X Terra Hawaii. And my dad, he his main distance was the Olympic distance and he's won four world championships in Olympic distance. Crazy. So Carrie: So cool. Hm. They're both world champions, right? Jessica Kain: She, I should know this. I like want to say yes. That's one rose in years. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Carrie: Like an extera world champ, I think I saw. I mean, they were b this ⁓ e regardless, they're world class athletes. Like it's amazing. Jessica Kain: Yeah. Yeah, so cool. So crazy. And so then they both are from the Bay Area, Los Gatos and Los Altos. And so they moved back to the Bay and like just went on to basically have kids and also started a triathlon team called Kane Performance. And so they both were coaches for like an a pretty elite team based in the Bay Area. And that was when my brother and I were just young and he's also an amazing athlete. He runs for Duke. He's a fifth year this year. And he runs eight hundred eight hundred and fifteen as well. Carrie: Okay. Jessica Kain: but yeah, both of like my brother and I's youth was just so I would say like unusual because both our parents were just these crazy elite athletes and also coaches. And so him and I were just like kind of going to be that no matter what. It was like weeks on the track. Every weekend we would go run in Nicene Marks and Carrie: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Jessica Kain: go on like a long run family run on Sunday. It just is like so, so fun. And I didn't realize like how special that was until I went to college and was like, ⁓ my God, this is so no one not not many people had that kind of growing up. But yeah, we're still super close. They actually just moved to Bend, Oregon from Santa Cruz. So they Carrie: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ first time for them to move outside of California then? But Bend is beautiful, like they're gonna have so much fun. Jessica Kain: Yeah. Yeah. Crazy. Crazy. Yeah. They're they're loving it. ⁓ so yeah, it's been really fun, but it's been cool to see my brother like excel through college as well. And he was really, really good in high school. Like top I was like good, but I was never like the top recruit across states or ⁓ anything. Like I didn't break the five minutes in my mile until Carrie: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Jessica Kain: I didn't break five minutes in my mile until my last race of high school, my like the state meet. And so I was already committed to San Diego State and I was so excited. But it was just like I wanted to do that so so badly. And so when I finally did it, my last race of college, I mean of high school, it was just the best feeling. But like now women in high school are running freaking so fast. So it's in it's crazy. It's insane. Yeah. Carrie: Really. Gosh. That's so cool. Yeah. They're so fast. I know. It is insane. It's a different world, but I do think it's interesting and I didn't even put this in my notes, but you know, there's a lot of athletes now that have either their famous ⁓ parents or they have parents that are pro-athletes. And you probably were kind of one of, you know, the the first kids. I mean, there's lots of kids your age that have parents that are athletes, but like You had two world class athletes. Did you feel the pressure to be really good? Or because that is the first question everyone asks about my 16-year-old daughter. Every time I talk to someone, like, is she as good as you are? Or or as you were, does she feel the pressure? You know, and and Ruby will probably be the first one to say, at least outwardly, like, no, I love it. I think it's really cool. But I also really think it'd be interesting to hear your perspective of that. Was there pressure? Jessica Kain: Mm. Yeah. I would say like maybe a healthy amount of pressure, like in but I mean my mom is like the most I could have been last place and she would have been like, I love you so much, you did amazing and my dad Yeah. ⁓ like genuinely she would mean it from the bottom of her heart. Like if I got last place. Carrie: Really? Like really? 'Cause And I I would say the same, like Ruby would wave during the two hundred meters when she was little and like be last and she thought that was awesome. And then okay, then we just like laughed about it. But now that Ruby really is into it and we have those hard conversations sometimes. Did she ever have hard conversations? Even though she would have loved you through whatever place. Jessica Kain: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I would say my dad definitely had more of those hard conversations where he was like, Yeah. Okay, where can we get better? Okay, where can we improve? Yeah. So but it was great to have the balance of both. I mean, like I knew I my brother and I would put so much pressure on ourselves already and we were Carrie: Okay, so dad does. Yeah, okay. That's how my family was. Sure. Jessica Kain: both like naturally so talented and then with like I only ran like thirty miles a week in high school. Like I was not doing any mileage. It was so low. And so yeah, I think then now I run like almost seventy miles a week. Like six I run like I run six Carrie: Good. I love it. But you had room to grow. Yeah, and still do. Jessica Kain: So much room to grow. Like, yeah, ideally if I can to like 70 or 75 next season, that would be amazing. I think I've been like consistently around 60. So and I'm healthy and feeling great. So I'm like, there is no reason to go and overdo it in high school. I think I said this on ⁓ the fast women as well. I was just saying like I don't I don't want to be like known for being the best in high school or even college. Like I wanna be known for like being able to continue to excel and better every single year and like hopefully go. Carrie: So Jessica Kain: Go on and compete at the Olympics and compete at Diamond League and like compete with the best in the world. And it's like you can always, always, always get better and add more. But it's so hard if you're like such a young if when in high school your body's just changing so much and you don't realize, like I mean it feels so big when you're there, but it's just like such a small little chapter of your life when you get older and you're like, okay, that's I didn't need to go do anything insane. Obviously, it's amazing when you're the best of the best, but you really want to be able to like continue. Carrie: Yeah. Yeah. Jessica Kain: Yeah. Carrie: I love hearing you say this and Jessica, you never made Footlocker, right? Did you do h like what did you win for state? I didn't look this up. Did you win states? Jessica Kain: Mm-hmm. No, never. No, I got twelfth? No. I don't even think I made finals. I think I was literally the first one out. I think. Carrie: But yet you still had this belief in high school that you could be one of the best and then you went to college and you ran well. I mean you ran really well. But you didn't make an N C double A's. Jessica Kain: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. No, I made regionals every year and then was out in the last round before NCAAs, which was so heartbreaking. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I I earned a full ride. I only went in with like ten percent. I was only on like ten percent. Yeah. Carrie: And so heartbreaking, but you you did keep with it. ⁓ you did get a full ride. So like there Okay. So you but you earned it. I mean, there's still like the win is great, right? That's the objective of our sport is to win. It really is. Like, that's what we do is try to win the race. But there's still wins within the race, within the career, within the moment, whatever. And I think that to me is the most intriguing part about your story. Even even you getting sixth, that was a win. And like I hear you. Jessica Kain: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, totally. Carrie: And I see what you even probably see when you look back at yourself in the mirror. Like you're pumped, you're excited, you're confident. There's things like so much good is happening and you you you haven't gotten that big win yet, but you still are dreaming about it. Jessica Kain: Yeah. Yes, totally. Like I know it'll come. It's there. Now I'm just patient and trying to do all the work to like get there little by little. Carrie: So tell me in a perfect world, if you would have won that race at USA's, like what what is the perfect race for Jessica Kane? Like what is what kind of runner are you? Jessica Kain: I every single race this season I've been running exact splits. Like my coach will tell you it's it's like crazy. It'll be like 66, 65 highs, 66 lows, and then like closing in I don't even know, depending on what the 300 would be. But basically, all I run so consistent, like I can just run a certain pace and hold that for the entire race. And so what I'm really gonna try to work on is just like my turnover. Carrie: Lock in. Mm-hmm. Jessica Kain: Because if I can run like 65, 65, 65, and then close in like a 45, that would be amazing. You know, when it's like Carrie: Yep. Yeah. Jessica Kain: For the time being, I really, really need to just work on the leg speed a little bit, like hop in some 800s, do some more 400s, do some more stuff in the gym, like plyometrics and just all that good stuff where I can really like get my turnover going. Because that was the shift that happened. I ran, I mean, I closed in a 205 in finals, but in trials, I also negative split and my last r my last lap was 62. And so that was like huge when in the past this whole season I've been closing in 65, 64 high. 65 and so being able to close in 62, I was like so stoked just because I was like, okay, thank God. I know I can go out and actually close really, really hard. And like if I can close if I can open in I think in a perfect race would be like Open in like a sixty three, so I'm like opening a little bit harder and then the two laps if I can s hang at like sixty five for those two laps and then close a three hundred as hard as I can. That would be probably prime perfect race. And so doable. And I would run really fast. Carrie: Yeah. I mean we look at Josh Yes. Well, and the way you you frame that, I mean it it does seem doable, right? I mean it seems sounds crazy for those listening, like, ⁓ just go through and two a wait, no big deal, and then you know, just crank it in. But I mean that's kinda where you're at. That's how you have to think now. ⁓ and we looked at Josh Kerr and I think it was so interesting how even his splits were when he set that world record. It was Jessica Kain: I know. Yes, yes. Yes, yes. Carrie: Awesome, but also good for us to remember that we don't have to have like cushion in the first couple laps and like run too fast and then pray we can hang on. Like you can be even and you can run it that way. Jessica Kain: Yep. Yes, yeah. So I know that was so exciting to watch him do that. ⁓ my god, I was so motivated. Carrie: I know, I know. ⁓ you're training with your college coach still. You don't have a crew around you necessarily or do you have someone that will come and help pace if you need it? Jessica Kain: Excellent. No, I literally run completely solo, which is no. He yells at me with a stopwatch, but that's all. And so I would say like Carrie: Coach get on a bike. Jessica Kain: This also is so big, and I would say for anyone listening, like my splits that I do in workouts are not anywhere near what I do in races. And so people, maybe that's because I run alone and it's mentally like so tough if I'm doing 1200s or I'm doing 800 repeats. ⁓ my god. After USA's, my first workout was 800 repeats, and I had just run 205. I ran 218 in my fur I was doing three 800s, 218, 216, and I was like, what? Carrie: It's so hard. Yep. Jessica Kain: I'm like dying. I was dying. And like it was just so crazy. And and he's just like, just remember you don't race like this. You always race better. So yeah. Carrie: Mm-hmm. For sure. ⁓ that is that is inspiring that you can do it on your own. I mean, mentally it is so tough. Jessica Kain: ⁓ my gosh. It's so tough. So I am definitely looking for like a group to train with and like I'm totally willing to move and or do some more altitude stints for like a few months at a time or really I'm just putting my feelers out there with like kind of what possibility of a sponsorship would look like, which is really exciting. And so now I'm just like figuring that out on hopefully I'll go run a little bit faster in Europe and then place really well at Fifth Ave Mile. Carrie: Okay. Yeah. My gosh, it'll be so fun. Yeah. ⁓ tell me a little bit about this modeling and running career. Like, I love it, I think it's great. I actually had, and I don't even know if I can ask you this without stepping on toes, which sometimes it's you know, you go for runs and you open up to your friends all the time. And we have these really good conversations because the running world, let's face it, not a lot of people make a lot of money. Like, you could go out and get a real no, not I don't want to say real job, but like Jessica Kain: Those those are the plans. Yeah. I know it's for fun. Hold it. Carrie: a corporate job and make quite a bit more or have some benefits and things like that. It's a it's a tough job to be a pro runner. ⁓ some people strike it big and they get six figures. Not a lot of people get much at all, even in double figures. So ⁓ what I not double figures, five figures. But so tell me this. Jessica Kain: Yeah, yeah. Carrie: Do you think that it made more sense for you to be a fitness model and be able to wear different brands all the time, be in different campaigns, be on like, you know, huge billboards and things in New York City, which you were so fun? ⁓ was that better to be have that career as a model than getting a professional contract by one brand? Jessica Kain: I know crazy. Yeah, I think like the exclusivity that a lot of brands want. Like I want to be with one brand totally. Like Carrie: Yeah, it's easier on you. Jessica Kain: Yes, ideally. But financially, like it's definitely there's so many, you know, it's definitely harder because in the modeling world you can make like a lot from certain campaigns. And realistically for what I was doing this past year, it's like if I can do a one day shoot and make a good amount and then I have like all the the next two weeks where I can just train and focus on my running, like that was amazing versus if I was with if I'm signing Carrie: Yeah. Jessica Kain: To like a really, really small contract, then you're kind of stressed and you're really like trying to either get another job. It's just like it's so hard that I think like some contracts are just, you know, I don't want to say say anything because I don't really know exact numbers that any what runners get, but it's just known in the running world that it's like it's kind of hard out there. It's really you're people are like kind of struggling. And so it's it's just like For me, the advertising side of things and like I love modeling. It's so much fun. Definitely was the best that I could have like this past year has been so fun getting to work with different brands and do these different shoots and then like work with on. It was such an amazing shoe. And then going in like to New York and seeing my face all over those walls. I was like, this is crazy. Yeah, it was crazy. But it was also crazy because like I've been training my doing doing my workouts and on and then I Carrie: Mm-hmm. Sure. Yeah. Jessica Kain: was racing in a pair of soccanis 'cause that's what I was used to from the year prior. And so it was just so funny. I was like on the on store and then r wearing currently and running and I was like, ⁓ my God, this feels like a lot. Carrie: Sure. Yes. Jessica Kain: So I would love to work with one brand and like totally be a spokesperson for them and like hopefully also be a model for them and do some cool shoots where we can go and like really just I don't know, talk about what it's like to be a professional runner, but then also, you know, whatever I'm if I'm looking good running by for them. Yeah. So hopefully it can do it all with one brand. That would be the goal. But Carrie: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay, that's the goal. Jessica Kain: Last year was definitely it was great to be able to work with different brands and like it wasn't really tied down to any specific contract or I wasn't exclusive with one brand. So it all worked out, really. It all worked out. Carrie: Mm-hmm. Okay. Right. ⁓ favorite part about being on photo shoots. I mean I love I loved the food. And they couldn't get over it. They'd be like, You gonna have pizza? You're gonna go out and run for six more hours. How are you gonna have pizza? Aren't you gonna get bloated? I'm like, no. Yes. Jessica Kain: Yeah. The food is so fun. I know. ⁓ my god. I know. I was on like a 14 hour shoot and then I had to go for a run, just a recovery run. And so they I had an hour and a half midday break and it was a running shoot. And they were like, and they're like, You're gonna go run? You've been running all morning. And I was like, No, but it's not the same. It is very hard. Yeah. Carrie: Yeah. It isn't. It is hard though. It is very hard to do those shoots. And a lot of times the sample size shoe, well for me, I was a size nine and a half and I'd be in an eight or smaller. Jessica Kain: Yep, I know I'm a nine and it's always eight. It's always eight. So I'm like, ⁓ it's fine. I can make it work for a few hours. Yeah. Carrie: ⁓ yeah. ⁓ but it is fun. I was just telling Ruby she was asking me about being in Malibu for a photo shoot once and I was saying how they would put like lavender oil in water and they'd have to spray it on me quite often because I cause she was like, Mom, you don't sweat. I'm like, yeah, it was kind of a perk when I was doing some of the photo shoots because I didn't have to, but then they would have to just douse me with that. Like, what do you have like what kind of secrets do you have from photo shoots? Jessica Kain: Yeah. ⁓ my gosh. Glycerin? Just the glycerin? Because I don't really sweat much either. And so they're like doing sprints and then they're like putting glycerin all over me. It's like a goop. And it looks like fake sweat. And I'm like, I'm like, I should just go run like a mile really quick and come back and I'll be I'll have real sweat. Like give me more give me ten minutes. Yeah. But it's been s it's been so fun and like I l I love that whole world. And so Carrie: Yep. Yes. It's so fun. I it. Jessica Kain: I've I have two shoots this week, one on Thursday and one on Friday, and so it's so exciting. No, I can work with different the these two Yeah, so it's been it's been great. ⁓ yeah, these two are both in like fitness world, I guess. One of them I don't even know if I'm I don't know if I'm allowed to say. Am I allowed to say? Okay. Anyways. Two fun ones on Thursday and Friday, yeah. Carrie: For currently then, or can you still work? Good for you. It's okay. No, you're fine. But the two shoots. ⁓ my goodness. I love that. ⁓ do you have an an agent that's like a running agent or a modeling agent? Or do you have both? Jessica Kain: No, I have none. I have no agent from I'm like Carrie: How come? Jessica Kain: I didn't really put I haven't applied for anything. All these things have just like come to me and like which is really crazy. Yeah. Through Instagram or like I know some photographers who they're looking and I like post a lot about diff past shoots that I've done. And so I feel like just through social media you can find people really easily and like also just word of mouth. But I would love to get an agent, especially in the model modeling world. Like I'll probably start applying. Yeah. Carrie: That's awesome. Like through Instagram or okay. Yeah, I think that's important. Yeah, or the talent space, I I kind of feel like for you. I wish that I had a a running agent for years and ⁓ and loved him. And but you know, we weren't this was a that was a time when we didn't have other people coming at us. Like if I would have gotten ⁓ an offer to do something for say like a different kind of brand, like even like I'm just gonna throw out DQ, Dairy Queen. Jessica Kain: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Right. Right. Right. Carrie: I don't know why, because I'm thinking about blizzards. But we didn't really think about that. We just were supposed to run faster. So Adidas for me, who I love, they're still great to me. ⁓ they would have paid me more, potentially, in the next contract. But it wasn't like, ⁓ you could get a random, you know, sponsor for this or that to do a commercial for them or whatever. So I do think like a talent slash Jessica Kain: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yes. Right. Carrie: media ⁓ modeling agent would be smart, especially the way you can speak. So that'd be fun for you. Jessica Kain: Yeah. Yes. Yes. Very fun. So yeah, I will I'll keep you posted, but I'll start sending out some applications or whatever that looks like. No, I love it. Thank you. Carrie: Yay. ⁓ Love it. Sorry, I went into big sister mode, just trying to help a little bit. ⁓ okay, so you said Europe's coming up. Do you know where yet? Can you say or no? Jessica Kain: ⁓ yes, racing in Luxembourg. So on September second and waiting to hear back from one of the races in Switzerland a little earlier, but it looks like the race in Luxembourg will be great and paced at like four ⁓ two. So that's awesome, which is exactly what I need. And then I was ⁓ possibly gonna hop in an eight hundred, but it might be too much to race three times in like ten days. So then I'll fly to New York from there and go and race in at Carrie: Okay. Okay. If that. Yeah. Jessica Kain: fit app and then I'll kind of take a little reset. I've been racing for a while now, so I'm like probably have one month left and then I like will take a quick week off, ten days off of like a reset just to let my body and mind reset. Yeah. Carrie: Yes. Well, this has been so much fun. I have one more thing we have to do. I do it on every podcast. I bring I do rapid fire brought to you by Rundot. So I'm gonna get to know you quick. If little little snippets quick, okay? So eight hundred or fifteen hundred. I love it. Fast race or tactical race? Lead from the front or kick from the back? Jessica Kain: Yes. Amazing. Okay. Perfect. I love it. Fifteen hundred. Fast. Lead from the front. Carrie: Ooh, track workouts or long runs? Jessica Kain: Track workouts. Carrie: I think I know this, but train alone or with a group? Jessica Kain: train alone but would prefer with the group. Yeah. Carrie: Okay, yeah, that's what I thought. Sea level or altitude. Do you have a preference? Jessica Kain: ⁓ I love sea level, but I go up to Mammoth for like a month every summer too, where I did all of college. So ⁓ I d I that's hard. I mean running by the beach amazing. Running in the mountains, amazing. Yeah. Carrie: ⁓ yeah. Yeah. I know, for sure. Okay. P is more fun to PR or place higher. Jessica Kain: Mm PR. Carrie: Really? Okay, you like to chase the time. Race day, would you rather go race or do a photo shoot? I love it. Running shoes or heels? Jessica Kain: Race. Race. ⁓ can I say both? Running from Carrie: Yes, but can okay, you can. You can and I think who is it? What is it? The woman that I can't remember her name right now, but she does she ⁓ was the creator of Spanx. Didn't she ⁓ design a pair of athletic heels? Yeah, yeah. Jessica Kain: Did you ⁓ she did. She did. I don't know about that, but I would go for a long run and get ready in five minutes for like a fun dinner. Yeah. Carrie: Me too. Me too. But I can't walk in heels anymore. Like my calf muscles are gone. ⁓ okay. Workout gear or dress up? Jessica Kain: Ha ha. I also love to do both. Like I love fashion and I love clothes and I love getting dressed up. So probably getting dressed up. But I'm in workout clothes 24-7. Carrie: Yep, yep, you can make it all look great. ⁓ would you rather run sun sunrise runs or sunset runs? Okay. Last one. LA twenty twenty eight. Is it a dream or is it the plan? Jessica Kain: Sunrise. The plan. The plan, for sure. Carrie: And then you're gonna get one of these, baby. Jessica Kain: That looks amazing. I'm like already thinking, where am I gonna get it? I don't know. I'm so excited. Carrie: ⁓ my gosh, let's get you that tattoo. All right. Well, hey, Jessica, this has been really fun and congratulations on everything so far. I love the way you're thinking. I love the way that you're, you know, putting yourself in these situations to really do great things. You've already done awesome. So keep getting after it. Jessica Kain: Wait a room. Thank you so much. Yes, it's been so fun to chat with you.