Latest / Houselights: A Film Director Podcast / Batman v Superman: UE & ZS's Justice League - Zack Snyder | Houselights #289: Wing of Batman

Transcript

Batman v Superman: UE & ZS's Justice League - Zack Snyder | Houselights #289: Wing of Batman · Houselights: A Film Director Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Net, Palte.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Tonight on House Lights, we continue the wing of Batman
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: with Zack Snyder's DCEU Batman, starting with Batman v. Superman
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Dawn of Justice from twenty sixteen, in which Ben Afflex
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: Bruce Wayne has spent twenty years getting jacked, paranoid, and
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: heavily armed, and decides to kill the flying Alien Man
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: with a spear. It's operatic, it's a little unhinged. It
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: gives us the single greatest mother name confusion moment in
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: franchise history, and yes we're going to talk about it.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: Then we follow into Zack Snyder's Justice League, the four
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: hour cut that exists because the Internet simply would not
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: let this go, in which Snyder got his footage, his budget,
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: and all the time in the world to finally tell
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: the story way he wanted. Whatever you think of the length,
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: this is a guy who got a genuinely rare do
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: over and swung for the fences with it with me
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: who never owns a gun except for every single vehicle
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: he's made. Darren Moser and playing a tatted up polar
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: plunger who has Icelandic women fawning all over him while
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: sniffing his sweaters. John Mills wing of Batman means afflex
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: Batman is criminally underrated. The Nightmare sequences are the strongest
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: and most fun thing Snyder ever put in a superhero movie,
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: and somehow we got a black and white four hour
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: cut that half the internet insists is the quote unquote
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: definitive version. Let's suit up some in a Justice League
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: that doesn't actually assemble and gives Snyder's Batman the credit
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: it deserves while laughing at the parts that absolutely earned it.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: This is houselights. Yes, Bravo, Bravo, good sir, Bravo. Yes, absolutely,
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to this, guys, because I am too.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: I have had quite a journey with these movies myself,
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: and it's always fun to revisit them as a result.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: Uh had a very famous falling out with somebody about
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: Batman b Superman when it first came out, and you know,
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: we're fine, We're fine. It was a moment in time.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: It was very cute. It was a lot of fun.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: But uh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, So I mean I'm
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: looking forward to it, Darren. You're looking forward to it too, right, Yeah.
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: It's it's so funny because it's like you said, it,
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: Tristan is DCEU and so it kind of lives in
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: its own little bubble. Yeah, and it because they are
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: Batman movies, but they're the most ensemble Batman movies I've
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: ever seen. Dear. Yeah, but it's it's gonna be an
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: interesting time. Also, like you said, the guns, the guns
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: are so interesting because you know, he's just driving around
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: the back and being like, oh oh oh, we're oh,
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: we're just killing people. We're just we're just straight up
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: killing people. Like like there's a couple of shots for
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: like you hit the car and it flips.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, they oh no, no, we are less
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: so three minutes in.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but listen, listen. Okay, rip off this band aid.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: Here we go, rip off the band aid and here's well,
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: throw the first flag. Keaton murdered people and nobody blinks
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: an eye. Okay, this whole thing, not just.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: Not just Keaton, every single live action Batman, including Adam West,
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: has killed people theatrically.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: And and smiled while doing like you know, like there's
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: there there's this whole thing where the whole Batman doesn't
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: kill things because the animated series had that rule. Obviously
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: they're they're not going to rate a TV y seven
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: if he's killing people. But additionally, you have Nolan basing
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: his Batman on Superman, and that's that skewed everybody's perception
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: of the bat afterward. And Batman's always been you know,
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: quote unquote okay, like he if it needs to get done,
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: he'll do it. And I still think with Nolan Batman
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: that I love the parody. Patton Oswald played the penguin
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: in this little bit, yes, and you know, he's like,
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: I don't kill people, and he throws the bat orangue
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: like Cozy Guy's face and Beeng was like, oh my god,
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: you killed him. He's like, no, he's just sleeping. And
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: it's like, because that's the whole thing, We're like, oh,
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: Batman doesn't kill I'm like, at least one of the
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: League of Shadows is dead. At least one of them
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: is dead from their injuries. I think.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: I think that's the thing is that, like when you
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: open up Batman begins, he burns the entire house, like
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: Roz's house down and it explodes while people are flying
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: around and no one bats an eye. But then the
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: moment he says I'm not going to save you, ros
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: al Ghoul. Then people are like, oh, you're a murderer.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: I'm like, he was a murder at the beginning of
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: the movie.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I that whole thing is not The problem I
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: think is that Snyder, whether people gonna say this is
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: a fair sort of criticism or not, Snyder doesn't just
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: acknowledge that the Batman is going to kill when he
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: has to do it. Snyder's Batman seems to relish the
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: opportunity to decimate people. But the thing is, we never
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: get Snyder's Batman when he's happy Batman. You know, there
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: is no happy Batman. But you know what I'm saying, Like,
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: I know what you mean. When we encounter him, he's
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: the dark Knight.
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: Batman's done, he's over it. He's branding the criminals and
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: then just letting the system take its course, like.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: Joey, here's the thing. And I know this is an oxymoron,
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: but if Snyder showed a modicum of restraint everyone, I know,
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: I can hear everybody laughing.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: Who's listening to this.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: If Snyder showed just a modicum of restraint and toned
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: down the batmobile, Chase Yes and didn't have the bat
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: wing blow up that dude in the car and just left,
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: just left the ultra violence to the warehouse scene. I
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: think people would be absolutely okay with it. I really do.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: I think the branding and the ultra violence I think
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: was permissible because we're dealing with a different kind of Batman.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: We're dealing with it is supremely jaded, broken bat and
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: even though he's not directly killing them, he's allowing them
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: to be killed, which should be just as bad according
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: to the mythos. But then you know, like we're seeing
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: him run the batmobile over cars and they're right over
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: the driver's heads, and you're just like, good lord, Like
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: he's not even trying. And so it's just I feel
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: like you could read if you just toned it down,
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: it was it could still be an awesome scene. But
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: if you just toned it down, people would get off
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: their back. People would get off his back. But the
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: thing is, Snyder himself doesn't really help the situation when
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: he opens his mouth. Also true, he puts his foot
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: in his mouth so often during interviews. We're like, like,
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: as a fan of his work, I'm just I keep
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: trying to defend some of these things and like, but
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: not to the extent that some other people do. But
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: then he just opens his mouth in an interview and
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: I'm just like, okay, okay, I can you got to
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: meet me halfway.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: Here's Zach, right, He's he's the friend you're defending. And
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: then that friend says says something stupid while they're drunk
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: at a party, and you're like, okay, yeah, like you
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: wish listen, Snyder's vision of the bat is valid, and
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: the setup in Batman v. Superman even okay, And I'll
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: go ahead and say it. Anybody who's heard me talk
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: about this before. I apologize. I know this is seem repetitive.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: I despise the theatrical cut still do to this day.
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: I will never watch the theatrical cut again. When we
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: came back for this rewatch, I accidentally because I have
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: the copies right, and it's it was on Apple my
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: Apple TV library, and I was going.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: On, they give you both in their separate entries on
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: Apple TV.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're separate entries, except this time I don't know
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: whether they change something about the interface. I chose ultimate
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: addition and I'm going along, and it got to Lois
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: in the desert scene, and then I knew what was missing,
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: and I was like who whoa hold on? No, no, no,
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: I was like, this scene's and I had to go
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: back and restart because I was like, uh, I can't
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: even have the theatrical version of this scene in my
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: brain because it almost like it almost caused me an
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: aneurysm like that. There are very few movies where I
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: will react so instantaneously to wrong version. Nope, not gonna
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: watch this. I'm not gonna watch this, and it's it's
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: nuts because I just don't know what Warner Brothers was
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: thinking and making him cut it down. They they just
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: they got cold feet because of Marvel.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: They got cold feet at the last minute, because apparently
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: what happened was is that he showed the ultimate addition
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: to the execs and they, of course I read this,
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: who knows if it's true, but they loved it so much,
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: and they loved Afflex portrayal so much that they extended
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: his one picture deal to three for standalone Batman films.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: They're like, we're not just giving you a standalone Batman film,
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: We're giving you a trilogy. This was amazing, But you're right, John,
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: They got cold feet. Something happened around that time, and
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: Marvel was doing really well, and Marvel was just filled
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: with like jokey and kitchy and light bright colors and
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: every thing like that. And they're just like, Okay, well
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: we can't redo Batman v. Superman, but maybe we can
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: cut it down, you know, like maybe we can make
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: it more palatable to the masses. And that's what that's
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: that's what happened. Yeah, we got a watered down version. Now, Darren,
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: did you see this in theaters or did you what
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: was the first version you saw?
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: No, I saw it in theaters, and I mean it's
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: the big movie, you know, and it's got Batman in it,
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: and it's you know, it looked looked really cool. I mean,
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: I don't want to talk about the theatrical version, just
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: like John, but it's you know, yeah, but yeah, I
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: want to talk about the the nine to eleven not
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: nine to eleven opening of placing this in the destruction
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: from the Superman movie was such a brilliant idea, like
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: it cemented Bruce Wayne's ark. Without that, Bruce Wayne doesn't
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: make or you know, Batman doesn't make any sense in
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: his direction, but being on the ground and when you're
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: sitting there seeing from the outside your building being sliced
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: up by heat, vision of two Superman fighting to the death, Like, yeah,
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: I get it, You're that would turn anyone against Superman
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: to be like you gotta be checked, you gotta be
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: rained in. You're the collateral damage. And it's so funny
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: because we start to see that around this time theatrically
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: in movies where you know, Transformers does it, like all
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: these movies do it, where you know, the the the
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: collateral damage starts to get ridiculous where you're like, okay,
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: you're you're literally killing tens of thousands of people, or
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: you throw in a simple I mean they kind of
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: did this in the other one where they're like, oh
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: good thing, it's night time and the city's core is
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: basically a like.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: Really they really they really over corrected, Yes, because Snyder
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: got so much heat deservedly, so so much heat with
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: Man of Steel final ending where they just decimate from
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: Metropolis and just like I can't even imagine the collateral
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: damage that came from that, and it just it got
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: to the point where and I'm not going to spend
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: a lot of time with Men on Steel but like
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: it got to the point where you're just like, this
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: is boring. This much destruction is boring because it's just
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: a CGI fight fest and you're just like, all you're
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: thinking about is just all the innocent lives that are dying.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: And so it would have it would have been seeing
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: film malfeasance if he didn't address that.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: But see this, this is the thing is it really
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: is all in how you paint it in all you know,
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: how you light it, how you cut it. Avengers, the Fir,
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: you go to the fight in New York. It's destruction
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: on a similar level with the alien invasion. The difference
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: is that Joss Whedon keeps every it keeps the color
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: cranked up and make sure to show us civilians running
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: out of the way being like I'm okay if you
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: really think about it, logically, no, they're not like they're
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: getting wiped out and the same scale. Snyder never took
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: that minute. The you like, the crowd stuff that we
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: saw was realistic, you know where where you know, Perry's
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: like staying there with like my listen, people beat up
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: the Metropolis fight all that you want to, but there
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: that there's that beautiful moment of Man and Steel where
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: Perry just won't leave you know, the it's the Jenny.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: It's Jenny Olsen and she's trapped and he just won't
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: leave her, even though he knows it's gonna mean his death.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: It's such a like, that's such a beautiful, beautiful moment.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: I think that what Snyder gets heat for is Snyder's
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: the one that came in and he's like, no, this
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: is exactly what happened in Avengers. It's just I'm trying
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: to make it a quote unquote real movie. But to
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: his credit, Batman versus Superman, I'm sorry Batman v. Superman
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: opening that way, I still think is one of the
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: most beautiful openings to an action movie I've ever seen.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: Like I I remember the first time I watched it,
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I'm in for something special.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: And when they show Bruce run into the destruction, yep,
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: I mean that right, there is a clincher.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: He just doesn't hesitate.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: He doesn't He's not worried about how it looks. He
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: is Batman in that moment, just wearing Bruce Wayne clothes,
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: and it's it's very apparentent and you see the anger
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: on his face, like his friends, his coworkers are dying
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: his you know, like he he saved a little girl
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: whose mother is clearly dead. And then you see you
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: see that that pull out, Yeah, and it's Wayne Financial.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: It was one of his buildings, and but that it's
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: it's not like he was angry because his building went down.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: He's angry because friends as co workers went down. And
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: I loved that moment when he is he's talking to
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: Alfred in the bat cave and he's like, if there
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: is even a one percent chance.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: Do you do you realize? I actually quote that all
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: the time when I tell my kids about when they
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: have to be when they have to be careful, or
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: when I'm at work and I know something could go wrong,
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: I will say I will say exactly, I'll go, if
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: there was even a one percent chance that this can
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: go wrong, I have to treat it as an absolute,
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: like I know I butchered the line just now or whatever.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: But like it's when you really think about it, you're like, yeah,
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: in that moment, you can understand why Bruce Wayne would
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: be like I'm not gonna wait for this guy, like, oh,
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, he's just a nice guy like I And
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: the thing is you know what, I'll throw myself on
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: the fire right now. I like Jesse Eisenberg's Luther. It
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: was different, it was timely. It's tech bro. I like it.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: I will always like it. Everybody else can go to
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: hell who disagrees with me, So right, let's talk about it. Yes, Okay,
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: so you nailed it. It's tech bro. He's clearly a
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: tech bro of that time. If I think he is,
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: he's very much.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: The uh, the Zuckerberg and flip flops. Yes, But you know,
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: like as it's if if it was made today, even
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: by Snyder, I don't think it would be Zuckerberg and
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: flip flops. I think it would be Zuckerbergen from the
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: Senate Committee. Yeah, And I think it's very much the
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: billionaire of its time. You know, like a lot has
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: happened in the past ten years, a lot has happened
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: in the tech landscape and the political landscape and everything
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: like that. And I think for what Snyder was going for,
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: he clearly nailed it what he was going for. But
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: I think to me, he's not Lex Luthor.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: He's just not.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: He's a character that has a Lex Luthor name, but
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: it's not Lex Luthor. Just like how Cheney in Dune.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: In Villeneuve's Dune, she's not Cheney. She's just a character.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: She's a completely different character with Cheney's name. Doesn't mean
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: it's a bad character, doesn't mean that Zindia did a
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: bad job. Just she's just not Cheney. And it's the
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: same thing with Luther, Like this is not Luther in
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: any way, shape or form that we've ever seen him
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: in in the comics or any kind of stories. And
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: if you like it, that's fine. I'm not saying it's invalid,
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: but it's just I just don't get it, Like it's
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: just he's the antithesis of what Luther is supposed to be.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: I don't know that I agree with that, because comic
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: books there's the constant reinvention, Like comic book characters are
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: that whole ship of theseus thing writ large where it's like,
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: how much of that character can you pull apart? What's
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: at the actual core? What's at the core of Lex Luthor.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: He's got to be some sort of you know, magnate billionaire,
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: super wealthy guy who has access to insane amounts of tech,
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: hates Superman for whatever reason, and ultimately wants to manipulate
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: everybody into doing what he wants. I think the trappings
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: of Luther it's sort of like how you know, when
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: the eighty nine Batman comes out, the Mob had not
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: been vanquished long enough for it to be an irrelevant reference,
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: you know, Like I remember when they were busting up
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: Gotti and everybody. That's how old I am. But when
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: Batman comes around in eighty nine, a really strong mafia
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: presence in New York City was like, well, yeah, right,
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: there was nothing different about it, whereas this is, you know,
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: and that Luther sort of that more traditional luthor belongs
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: to that sort of time, and I think updating him
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: and saying, well, what would that type of person look
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: like in today's environment, I think it's completely valid.
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: I do, yeah, I think, you know, just like any
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: of these characters, Luther being kind of reimagined and re envisioned,
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: Like I really liked the most recent Luther we got,
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: and and the way he applied you know, social media
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: and tech and controlling the narrative, like that was his
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: big thing. I can't see this Luthor doing that. That
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: was not the thing you did in that era. So
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: Luther being a product of our time in the moment. Yeah,
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: that tracks. I mean, I still love the animated you know, Luther,
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: you know so, But you know, circling back for a
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: second though to when you were talking about Tristan, you
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: know what might have made them gun shy for pulling
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: the trigger on the Ultimate Edition Because I was trying
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: to check the dates. It's it's really inconclusive because this
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: came out, you know, early twenty sixteen. The only movie
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: before that is you had Age of Ultron not do
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: quite as well, and then you had ant Man came
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: in a matter which so maybe that I can't see
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: it just being ant Man. Maybe a one two punch
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: of like the Avenger formula is breaking down a little bit.
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: Age of Ultron did well, but not like amazingly well,
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: and then ant Man came in with the funny and
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: everyone loved it. I don't know, it's it's I mean,
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: I'm not in the boardroom, but.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: They were still staring down the barrel. They knew Civil
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: War was on the way, right, right, because Civil Wars
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: was May of sixteen, right, And this came out in
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: like March, didn't it.
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Batman vs. Superman came out in March, so a
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: matter of months ahead. But when this came out, there
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: was almost like this. I remember there were these conspiracy
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: theories levied at the time people were throwing out there.
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: The critics were sitting outside and talking about how they
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: were going to tear it down, like people got it
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: got so weird so quickly, where everybody was.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: Convinced so weird about this movie.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: There was this conspiracy that people were trying to take
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: the movie apart and keep it from doing well. And
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: it's like, no, it just hit the wrong moment in time.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: I do. I think. I think it's just that unfortunate
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: timing for this movie.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: And I want to I want to talk about that
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: a little bit because John, you were in on this
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: a little bit. So Oh my, yes, I had I
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: had a journey with this movie where like I saw
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: the theatrical cut and I didn't hate it. I think
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: thought I saw the theatric cut, didn't hate it. I
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: walked out of the theater with my wife. I was like, hey,
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: that was pretty good. I mean, there are some pretty
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: ridiculous things in there. There were like oh, Martha, yeah,
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: you know, you know, like you know, you know, like
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: that was stupid. But but you know, overall, I thought
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: it was a really interesting direction, and my wife is
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: like you sure right? You know, She's like you you're
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: sure about that?
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: You sure about that?
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: You sure about that? She was not convinced at all.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: And then I see the the Ultimate Edition. I was like, oh,
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: I was so wrong. I was so wrong. This is
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: so much better than the theatrical cut. Good lord, and
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: but I had this journey with it. And then I
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: remember when I had that realization. When I finally got
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: to see the Ultimate Edition. I went on letterbox and
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: I wrote a really long review and I was like,
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: you know what, you know, you know, like I had
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: some trouble with theatrical cut, but the Ultimate Edition really
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: changed my mind, like this is a four star film,
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: Like yeah, it has its fault but faults, but like
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: it has it gets all these things really right. And
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: then this weird guy came in and said, what faults
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: do you mean? Yes, I said, I remember this, like
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: I talk about the faults in the in the review.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: He's like, no, you didn't. You just don't get it.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, I'm sorry.
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: And.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: No, Joey would not be defending Batman v. Superman at all.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: And then he gives me this copy and paste manifesto
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: of why Batman v. Superman is a masterpiece, and then
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: Kessel Junkie out of nowhere swoops in and says, this
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: is the most contentious review of a four star review
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: I have ever seen. There you go, well and yes,
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: and that kel junks was right, And that's what we're
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: dealing with. That's the thing is that, like I when
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: I go to another film person or somebody who loves
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: movies and I say, oh, I love Batman v. Superman,
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: I have to say, but I'm not a Snyder bro.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: But then I have to say, well, I like Snyder,
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: but I'm not a crazy person. And it sucks that
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: I have to do that.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: It's the weirdest, weirdest thing because like, there are a
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: lot of people I know personally who who like Batman v.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: Superman a lot, and I don't know how everything goes.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: That's so magnified by the people who couldn't handle it
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: and tribal. It was very it was very, very odd.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: But if I want to give it, like when I
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: sit with it and I try to give it as
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: positive a spin as possible, there's something about it that
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: spoke so deeply to certain people that it mixed up
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: their identity with it in such a way that, like
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: I get that sometimes where something can mean so much
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: to you that it's reflexive to be super defensive of it.
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: And it's what's really difficult is that the people who
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: get super defensive about it, like they don't realize they're
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: doing it sometimes And I haven't encountered actually a whole
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: lot of people like that, but like it just gets
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: magnified by the algorithm, is what I think happens. And
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: it just it's just like I mean, I remember ninety
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: nine when everybody lost their minds on the early days
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: of the Internet about episode one. It's the same thing.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: It's just more real time. It's jobbed into your eyeballs
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: instead of you having to go to a forum and
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: finding it.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: Speaking of which, Speaking of which, because we're rounding the
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: time on what I want to spend on Batman v. Superman.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: So this is a Batman pop. This is the wing
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: of Batman director focused. But yet we have yet to
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: talk about Aflac as Batman. I was one of the
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: first people to go, are you freaking kidding me? Affleck
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: can't be Batman. That's a horrible choice. I was one
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: of the first to say, this is stupid, this is
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: not going to work, And as soon as I left
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: the theater, I was one of the first to say
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: red card on Tristan Riddell.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: I was wrong.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: He's a great Batman and a great Bruce Wayne.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: Darren.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: What did you think of the Affleck casting before and after?
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: Now? I mean, I was definitely open minded, mainly because
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: I still remembered all the reaction about Heath Ledger and Joker,
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: and I was like, okay, Like there, this franchise has
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: proven it can reinvent its wheels often enough that they
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: like the people that make this movie aren't dumb. They
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: want to make a good movie. They want to have
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: a good Batman. They're not throwing darts at a board.
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: It's a calculated choice and that could or couldn't pay off,
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: but there are a likely chance that it will because
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: you know, they saw something, the director of the producer
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: all that saw something in at Fleck to pull this out.
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: And while I was a little sad that this is
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: probably one of the least Bruce Wayne representations, like I mean,
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: besides that opening shot, we barely get Bruce Wayne in this.
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: It is such so bat heavy that you know, I
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: kind of missed the days of bail, like, oh, look
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: at all these scenes we get with our wonderful billionaire
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: playboy philanthropist. Uh but but now I enjoyed what was
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: they called bat Fleck and and uh but I love
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: that bat Fleck and Batinson.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: I love it. But just little things.
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: Like the voice modulation. It was such a great idea
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: rather than just jok like you know, now it's a
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: meme and a talk like this.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: You know, I think that was Kevin Smith's idea. I
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: think I read that somewhere I could be.
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: It was great it, you know, Garble's voice of it,
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: because eventually, you know, think about it, people really want
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: to start figuring out who Batman is, like where's he
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: showing up? And voice analysis like there are ways it
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: just tried to track him down. But yeah, but all
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: that to say, you know, I I it is. It
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: was an interesting movie though, because while it is so
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: heavily focused on Batman, there's a ton of Superman in it,
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: Like yeah, I mean in this version in the edition,
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: yes I know, and I know, yes, Jared, it's called
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: Batman v. Superman that they both have their names in it,
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: but it still feels like it should be a Batman
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: movie first, if I had to. But by the thinnest
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: of margins, you know, I'm not saying it's bad having
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: both characters in it, but it but all The last
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: thing I'll say is just I I have seen other
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: versions of this story in animated form and other things,
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: and there are some aspects of those that I love
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: even more, like the fight. The fight I think has
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: been done really well in other in comic adaptations and
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: animated adaptations. But so I wouldn't say this is my favorite.
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: A dark Knight returns real good. And if you guys
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: when he connects his suit to the power grid and
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: then punches Superman, it's my favorite shot. Love.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: If you guys haven't seen it, look look for it.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: It's it's easy to find.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: I was, you know, I was like you, Darren, where
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, I could see yeah, okay affleck.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: You know he's a pretty guy, that sort of thing.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: I could see him. You know, he's good enough actor.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: I could see him as Batman. But I remember talking
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: to my brother, who you know, he's he's five years
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: older than me. So of course, as I've been reminded
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: throughout my entire life. He was first in everything. He's
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: the first Batman fan for Star Wars first everything. All
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: I do is follow in his wake. But I, I,
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: you know, reached out to him. I was like, what
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: do you think of a fleck as Batman? And my
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: brother was like, fantastic. This is the best choice ever.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: This is the best Batman casting ever in the books.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: Goes look at his jaw. He looks perfect for this part.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: Like my brother was like, finally they cast somebody that
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: just naturally looks like Batman. He's like, I'm on board
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: with this one hundred percent. The one thing that I
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: will always fault Snyder for is that I don't mind
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: the whole thing of going back to a more like
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: you know, they say it. They talk about how it's armor,
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: but it looks more like just a body instead of
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: like you know what what they the techno armor that
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: they had with with Bail, you know by the end
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: of it. Yeah, But the fact that his suit while
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: at rest is supposed to look like, you know, it's
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: just stretched over his enormous muscles. The fact that it
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: had creases as if somebody standing in fabric like molded
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: onto it for some reason just drives me up a wall.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: And it's like, who didn't sit with the director and
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: be like, hey, this looks weird.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: I've read some things with the costume designer about how
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: they wanted it to look like fabric, like Frank Miller's
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: Dark Night. I never once got that inkling while watching
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: the movie. I never once thought it was fabric.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: That Yeah, it looked like somebody had spray painted, like
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: somebody had done sprayed fixative on it while he was
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: wearing it, or something like that. I just and it's
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: there are certain certain things with that that stretch this
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: if it is going to be Batman focused. And I
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: know you love the nightmare stuff, and I love the
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: nightmare stuff too. I thought it was really cool so much.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: I'm so glad you wrought it up. I love the
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: night memory stuff so much. It's my favorite part. I
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: would have cut it because I would good. I would
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: have cut it for a different dream where he's reliving
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: Robin's death or something like that, to give him more
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: of an arc of this is why he's such a
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: bitter douchebag and a horror And it's pretty good. And
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: the thing that I dislike about the Nightmare thing is
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: that we have the Flash who was recast reaching through you,
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: like Bruce Lois is the key and like even the
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: first time I saw it, I was like, are just
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: setting up a sequel? Yeah? Already I don't. Could we
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: just tell this story for like that's I'm very much
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: a save that for the end, Guys, Like, tell me
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: this story and then jump to the setup. Put that
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: whole scene in the in the mid credits something like that. Perfect,
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: Like why not you? Literally?
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: I mean it does push him more towards like this
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: Batman's gonna be him realizing Superman is gonna be a problem.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: But yeah, nothing you're saying is wrong.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: I know, but it's super cool. The Nightmare sequence is
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: super cool.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: It looks I think that's the thonderful, like like what
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: you said is objectively better, But the Nightmare stuff is
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: so freaking cool. I mean, like, I know it gets
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: a lot of hate and because he is using guns directly,
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: and I get it, I really do get it. But
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: we have to remind ourselves that this is an interpretation
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: and this is a post apocalyptic Batman. Okay, society has collapsed,
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: all right.
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: He's Cian Omega sign carved in the desert, like.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: There are demons who were flying down and trying to
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: swoop him up. Yeah, if I had a rifle or
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: a nine millimeter pistol, I'm gonna use it.
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: I'm just now picturing that same scene. But he's throwing
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: tiny batterings at the parademons. He's doing nothing. It's doing
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: absolutely Like what do you what do you try to do?
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: All right, Okay, all right, we got we gotta move on.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: We gotta move on.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: This was this is hard because both movies are so long. Okay,
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: so we gotta move on to Justice League.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: I still haven't finished watching Justice League and I started
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: it three weeks ago. Tristan, come on this, Okay.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: So this is just so everybody knows, this is not
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: a Weedon podcast. This is not an original Justice League
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: rig podcast, Like this is Snyder cut. Okay, So like
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: we could we could talk ad nauseum of the behind
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: the scenes stuff. How Wheden you know, lost his career
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: over this, you know, like it was a thankless job
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: because like if he took it and it was a success,
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: everybody would just give Zack Snyder credit. And if it failed,
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: which it did, everyone blamed Whedon. This is I'm not
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: saying that's a cop out for Whedon. I'm just saying
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: that that's the situation. And Weeden showed his ass in
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: the process. That's all we're going to talk about it.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: Weeden got what was coming and we're moving on. So
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: and this is someone who really really grew up with
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: Whedon's work. But Snyder Justice League, that's what we're talking about.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: Four hour cut really hashtag released. The Snyder cut was huge,
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: it was gigantic. Okay, we said that, moved on. It
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: was released, he was given budget, he had terrible reasons
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: as to why he had to leave production and very
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: personal reasons. He had every single right to leave production,
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: and it's amazing he got to redo and that it
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: was finally able to give his vision and then some
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: because he had his The Snyder cut we got was
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: not the original Snyder cut. The Snyder cut that he
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: had on his laptop that he talked about was way
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: less than what he ended up doing because once he
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: got budget and permission, he's like, Okay, I'm gonna I'm
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: gonna go to go all out, and so that's what
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: we got.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: I've seen Batman v.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: Superman Ultimate Edition and Zack Snyder's Justice League six times each.
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: I don't know how, but it's for some reason, like
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: a comfort movie for me that I'll put on in
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: the background when I'm working, because I've seen it so
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: many times. And it's long, it's not perfect. There's a
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: lot that can be cut. There's a lot and that
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: can be trimmed down. And I'm going to say, right
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: off the bat, is that one thing that I've said
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: as a criticism before in this podcast, I'm going to
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: say as a benefit for this movie is that Zack
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: Snyder's Justice League is a series of vignettes, and I
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: think it was very smart of him to cut it
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: up into parts. And I don't know, I feel like
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: John would disagree with me on this one. I'm look,
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: I'm really interested to see what you would think.
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: No, cutting it into parts made a lot of sense.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: You're absolutely right.
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: Too, because it just this movie is very much a
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: collection of vignettes. It's very much Oh yeah, you remember
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: that time when Flash saved that girl from the car crash,
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: or you remember that time when the Amazonians, you know,
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: tried to save the Motherbox. You remember that time when
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: like like That's what this movie was. It was a
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: series of vignettes put together. So it was very smart
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: for him to cut it up into parts because he
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: knew what he had now.
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: Darren, Almost like issues of comics being released week after week.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's kind of what it felt like. It felt
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: like in not annual, but like a an omnibus. It
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: felt like an omnibus. Right, It's just like you get like, oh,
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: you get a little bit of Batman and Robin, you know,
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: issue twelve, and then you get you know, then you
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: get Detective Comics Comics issue twenty seven through thirty, and
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: then you get Wonder Woman issues five through six. You know,
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: like you get all that in to tell that one story.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: That's what the Justice League is in my opinion.
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: Well, and I feel like it's almost a bigger discussion
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: because this movie and it's run time and it's like
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: the fact that it even came together is amazing. But
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: what I want to talk about for a second is
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: almost the bigger discussion of the containers we put media into.
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: I feel like, and I'm meaning specifically like television show,
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: mini series, theatrical release, like certain things, and especially as
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: we're seeing a lot of like live action remakes of
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: television shows and how things work and don't work. This
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: movie is such an interesting case study because yeah, it
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: could this work as a mini series. Absolutely? Would you
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: watch it in pieces, you know? Or would the greater
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: audience watch it in pieces tune in every week? I
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: don't know, but it's it's it's so interesting when a
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: movie reaches such a critical mass in size that you like,
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: I want more. I want this to be a big
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: I want them to have the platform to tell the
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: longer story so I can enjoy all of the little bits.
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: But I also can't see myself sitting through four hours
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: in a movie theater. So it's like that's where I
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: wish that we would kind of swing back to the
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: mini series. The six episode many which I mean, I'm
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: gonna be honest, is now a full season of television.
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: I'm not gonna talk about that. But no, but no, like, yeah, tell,
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: maybe that's what's Maybe that's what killed the mini series
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: is the tiny theatrical or the small TV series. But
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: I or looking at British programming where they're like, no,
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: we're gonna tell six episode single arcs and then we're done, Like, but.
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: Give six episodes every three years, five every three years,
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: every five years.
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: But give them the tools to tell something that's all No.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: But to Darren's point, like I wish they would just
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: do a way a season that they would just be like,
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: you know what, just just embrace it. Just tell your
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: story in six episodes. You get six episodes, you don't
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: get a season two. Just tell it and be done
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: and force them you know what you're gonna You're gonna
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: make this devil's compromise here you get, you get one season,
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: or you get nothing, and live with that. But I
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: think that one of the things that I'll go back
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: to Batman v. Superman first, I don't like, either in
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: the theatrical or in the the Ultimate edition. I don't
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: like the detour that they take where they're you know,
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: where Wonder Woman is watching the files, where it's like,
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: look at these things and it's like here these characters
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: were going to set up. It's like, has nothing to
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: do with the rest of this, nothing to do with
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: the rest of the story. Yeah, I would have cut it.
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: I would have absolutely cut it. You want to you
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: want to take a three hour movie down to two
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: and a half hours, you could still have everything that's
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: great about the Ultimate Edition and do it in two
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: and a half hours by making judicious cuts. Absolutely, you
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: can do it. And we never talked about Martha. But hey,
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: and I just.
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: Now realized that we never talked about Martha. I just
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: want to acknowledge that this was one of the stupidest
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: decisions in the movie. And it makes no sense because
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: all of a sudden he goes from I'm going to
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: kill you because you're a god and I cannot have
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: gods on this planet too. I will devote my life
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: to you, and I will spend the rest of my
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: life making up for that mistake.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: It was just such a clunky way to do it.
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: It made sense in the greater context of oh he
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: he has a mom too, Like I get what he
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: was going for. It would have been pluniest way, so
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: much better, clunkiest way you could.
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: Have done it. Good paper, not exactly in the pool.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: You come to Zack Snyder's Justice League, and I think
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: you see a director that has the same discipline issue
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: in terms of what you would call Tristan the macro edit.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: If this is really a movie, first and foremost, I
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: think it's two movies because I remember when they initially
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: announced it they were going to say, they said there
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: was going to be Justice League Part one and Justice
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: League Part two. And I can point to the exact
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: moment in Zack Snyder's Justice League that would have ended
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: part one and it's Superman is nowhere through the movie
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: until they show him as a little hologram at the
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: end and Ben Affleck has his arms crossed. He goes,
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: he we got to bring him back. Boom the credits.
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: I would have walked out of that movie theater been like,
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: oh yeah, like oh my gosh. And I wish that
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: there was like a Zack Snyder's Justice League Part one
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: and part two that I honestly think that would have
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: been a wiser release to release a part one and
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: have everybody get killed for part two. Well, let's not
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: get crazy. That that's a that that that's that's a
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: whole other discussion.
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: That if they didn't like bringing Weeden, indeed the theatric cut,
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: that's what they should have done. And then Darren, that
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: would have answered you. That would have been a response
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: to your, you know, concern of like who on earth
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: is going to go to a modern theater and sittuble
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: four hours do a part one Part two and that's
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: where you cut it. And if they didn't do the
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: theatrical cut, I think that would have been a great
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: way to do it.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: And screw it. You could have done either the Lord
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: of the Rings release him just twelve months apart, or
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: do six months apart like Back to the Future Part
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: two and Part three did just don't don't monkey around
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: with it and be like, look, we're being honest here. Okay,
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: the part one comes out and then you're gonna get
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: part two in six months. So just you know that,
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: I think would have worked. It would have worked perfectly fine.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: And I still think it's such a great moment where
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: they got it. So I remember watching it for the
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: first time and I was like, oh, there's part one.
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: That's that's the end right there. You don't even need
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: a stinger or anything like that. I think that Snyder.
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: Superman, Ulvertwo in Justice League Part.
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: Two, Yes, Batman, I love that Cyborg just has that footage.
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: He just has it queued up where it's just like, yeah,
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: this is my screensaver.
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: It is mine. He's like, okay, do I show it now?
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: I shot just now ready. Yeah, it would would be
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: the most awesome time for me to show. Ready, okay
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: internal memrick ready ready wait.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: No, I totally got the perfect thing. I totally got
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: the perfect thing. Yeah, no, you could. You could have
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: like a robot chicken thing where it's like, as they're
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: walking through and he just keeps showing the Superman thing,
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: It's like, why are you showing that? Oh sorry, never mind,
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: never mind, forget I had that, And then like it
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: gets to the perfect moment, He's like, yes, this is
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: what I lived for. I think that to your point,
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: Tristan yet is a collection of vignettes, and that really
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: is where Snyder is best as a director is in
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: the short bursts.
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: There's a sprinter, not a long distance runner.
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: Yes, and he's even done some short work that is
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: fricking phenomenal, Like he really excels in the vignette. And
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: I think that he is a very gifted visual director.
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: I think that he is to your point in terms
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: of sprinting, very gifted in terms of his storytelling. Justice League.
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: He earned the right to have his four hour indulgent
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: cut here, but it's.
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: Not that's such a perfect word for it, because as
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: much as I love Zack Snyder's Justice League.
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: It is so indulgent. It is so like, Yes, this
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: is what it looks like when somebody has given no
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: restraints whatsoever at all, wherea it's like, do whatever you
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: want to, however long you want to do it. Yeah,
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: it's We're lucky it wasn't a six hour cut. But
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: I think that what's amazing about Zack Snyder's Justice League
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: is that it does come together and by the end
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: of it, I'm totally on board, and I love the
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: way it resolves. This is, with the exception of the
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: unfairly maligned Sucker Punch, this is the best ending of
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: a Zack Snyder film. I love this ending because this
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: is the type of ending you have where it's self contained,
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: it's all resolved, but there's a little more. The one
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: thing with this that I will always fault it for
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: is the adding footage when a Fleck is obviously not
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: keeping himself in the same type of shape and it
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: just does not come together at the end when he's
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: talking with a Martian Manhunter.
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: No, Yeah, I completely needed it was so weird.
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: Well, what that felt like was that felt like Snyder
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: trying to bait the hook and say, hey, if you
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: love this enough they might let the Snyder verse continue.
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: And well, originally he wanted to do a green that
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: was it wasn't supposed to be Martian Manhunter was supposed
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: to be Green Lantern, and he actually filmed it upon
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: a green screen in his driveway with Green Lantern, and
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: WB threw down the hammer and said, no, we told
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: you know you shot this on your own accord. It's
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: still a no. We have plans for Green Lantern. Stop
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: screwing with us. We've given you your Snyder cut.
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: But look at how well it's gone for them with
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: Green lay turned since and what they've done.
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: I'm looking forward to the Lantern show. I think that
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: could be good.
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: It could go either way. Well, of course, go either way.
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: But okay, So here's the thing though, Like I don't
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: want to just I just don't want to glaze over
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: Snyder cut because there's a lot wrong with it. There's
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: a lot that like, there's so much that could be trimmed.
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: Like one thing that really and this this is the
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: microcosm of the macrocosm. Like if you look at when
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: Bruce first meets Flash and then he throws the batter rang,
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: that's the one thing literally the one thing that the
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: actual cook did better than Snyder cut is that it
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: condensed that scene where like, as he's throwing the batter
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: rang and we're getting into that slow motion electrical storm deal,
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: he's just staring at it for three beats too long. Yeah,
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: And I feel like that's repeated throughout the movie, where
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: you're just like, oh, we're still here, Oh this is
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: still going on.
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: No opposition for us to trim up the tiny bits.
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: Right right, there's there was no producer, there was no
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: editor that clear. Lee went to Zach and said, hey, buddy,
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: maybe we could we could, you know, trim this down.
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: He's like, silence fool, Yes, the Internet has given me permission.
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: You may be a producer, but I am executive producer.
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: And I said, this is what shall happen?
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: Whose movie is this? Zack Snyder is Justice League?
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: That's right. I it is now canon.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: But that is how that conversation went down in the edit,
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: bing prittlliant and so.
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: Is the title of this movie.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: It's the Simpsons meme again, don't make me tap the sign.
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: It just has the little side sax Snider's Justice League.
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: So you like, there's there's so much wrong with it.
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, like, you know, like it's it could be
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: cut down, it could be trimmed, and I'm not and
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: you know, like I'm fine with the four hours honestly,
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: which I never thought i'd say out loud, but I'm
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: fine with it. It's just within the scene itself, you're
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: just like, Okay, there's gonna be tighten. This could be
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: trimmed down. And like the the Lewis Lane and Martha
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: Kent scene was ruined, yes, completely, you robbed them of
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: a fantastic moment. That was a beautiful moment, and you
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: robbed Lois of it. And and also on top of that,
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: you know, like Ezra Miller's interpretation of Flash is just
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: freaking weird. It's it's it's you know, it's it is.
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: Uh, it's weird in the sense of what Eddie Redmain
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: did with Newt's Commander and Fantastic Beasts, where you're like,
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: you're making choices, but I don't know if you say
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: the right choices for an audience to like you.
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: And at that time, like it was really in vogue
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: to be autistic coded, and I think that's that's clearly
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: what they were going for with Flash, and that's very much,
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: not how he was in the comics or like, you know,
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: in any other kind of portrayal.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: Sounds like somebody's gatekeeping.
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: Oh jeez, And then you have karlel No, you know,
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: so not everything and everyone was firing in all cylinders.
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: Yes, there are, Like you said, there are moments. I
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: think if you just went through and you picked the
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: little moments to trim, you have a three and a
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: half hour movie right there, and then it's just just
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: the littlest bit to get it down to three hours
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: ten from that. You know, I'm not asking you to
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: cut the whole thing down. I'm just saying just you
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: could pull back a little bit.
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not oh it needs to be four hours.
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: It can be an enjoyable four hours, Like if look
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: at the extended Lord of the Rings movies, like that's
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: more content, but it's not like, oh, we just threw
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: more at.
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: It except for a Return of the King.
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: Okay, well you know, but there you go. The grand
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: scheme is, though, I think we're all comfortable watching longer
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: content if it's actually full of Oh, I'm really glad
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: they didn't have.
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: To cut this seat.
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: I mean, how many times have we watched extras, and
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: we're like, oh, man, that you know, why is that
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: on the cutting room floor if you just had an
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: extra five minutes. I mean, I just picked up the
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: the Bluey version of Project Hill Mary, and I know
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: it has some deleted scenes on it. I've heard talk
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: of it had a four hour first cut. I never
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: want to see that because I don't there's there's having
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: all the content and there's having a watchable movie, and
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: you got to have it.
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: In the in the right way.
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: And I know that you guys know this, but whenever
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: that gets released into the media and into the blogosphere,
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: it's always just like, oh.
• 47:40
  Speaker 4: Apparently there was a four hour cut of Hail Mary. Like, no,
• 47:43
  Speaker 4: it was the assembly cut, right, Like. That's like people
• 47:47
  Speaker 4: so many people just don't understand how editing works, where
• 47:50
  Speaker 4: it's just you take literally the kitchen sink. I shouldn't
• 47:53
  Speaker 4: say literally, but you take the kitchen sink, everything that
• 47:56
  Speaker 4: was shot, and you just lay it down. There was
• 47:59
  Speaker 4: lay it down.
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: There was originally a more than three hour cut of planes, trains,
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: and automobiles that John Hughes and Paul Hirsch watched. They
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: went and they had lunch and they said, okay, let's
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: turn it into a comedy and cut it down.
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: And that's and you got to kill your darlings. You
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: got to kill them all.
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: And Steven Soderberg, you know, like you know, like you like,
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: Soderberg will edit on the day, like he'll shoot on Monday,
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: edit Monday night, and then he'll show everybody what he
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: what he shot on Monday, and then he'll do that
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: again on Tuesday, and then he has the movie by Friday.
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: The Man's insane anyway. Okay, so we're coming up on
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: the hour mark. These movies are so long.
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: There's so many hours to go. Yeah, exactly, take your
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: break now, folks.
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: But Darren, I want to I want to give any
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: quick emphasis on quick final thoughts on B vs U
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: E and Z s j.
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: L stop stop right now.
• 49:00
  Speaker 3: Uh you know, I just want to say, you know,
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: I really give it to to Batman v. Superman again
• 49:08
  Speaker 3: that opening I finally shush, shush now, no, but not
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: really not since Back to the Future too, where we
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: got a second view of something we had already seen
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: and it you know, but to the tenth degree, like I.
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: Think it did.
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: So not one note on that is that like somebody
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: actually matched up Man of Steel and I've seen that
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: and like A and Batman v. Superman, and like even
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: the laser BBSR. I tried to avoid it for you,
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: and but like they matched up the laser blasts from
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: their eyes perfectly. Like it's it's the same content. It's
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: the same.
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: Same director, so i'd hope so, you know, but.
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but like it's it's the same went the extra mile,
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: They went the extra mile and just reused that same
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: content from a different angle. Anyway, continue, I'm sorry.
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: It makes me think of the helicopter crashing near Nick
• 50:04
  Speaker 3: Fury that matches up with the Incredibles and Frozone and
• 50:08
  Speaker 3: which I guess you know here they're there. But all
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: that to.
• 50:11
  Speaker 5: Say, yeah, I mean these movies, these movies were fun
• 50:20
  Speaker 5: in their regards that you know, they're really the product
• 50:24
  Speaker 5: of what you get from a DC movie in the age.
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: Of Marvel, Like these are such products of that. It
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: cannot be understated. These movies would not exist like this
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: if Marvel didn't have its ten year rise leading up to.
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: It.
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: Definitely has its imprints on it, for good and for ill.
• 50:44
  Speaker 3: But that's why these feel so different, you know, and
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: not just because they're more ensemble based, you know, but
• 50:51
  Speaker 3: they you know, it's such a different vibe than the
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: Dark Knight trilogy than any of the pairings of Batman
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: before this. But he but Ben and works in an ensemble.
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: He he does. Sometimes he works better as a as
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: a side character that pops in.
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: To shoot people with guns. But you know, so that's
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: all guns attached to a vehicle, which clearly don't count,
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: mister Moser, Okay.
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: Music means well missions.
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: I will point out that in the Geneva Convention, as
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: long as you fire a fifty caliber ad equipment, if
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: a person gets in the way, it doesn't count as
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: a war crime. I just want to point that out,
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: all right.
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: So Darren, what what a rating are you? How many
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: burned batterings? Uh? In criminals? Are you giving bvs UV
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: and ZS Jail so much?
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: Now? Gosh, I'm gonna get in both fors. They're They're
• 51:45
  Speaker 3: great movies to enjoy when I have a free month.
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: I enjoy Zack Snyder's Justice League. No, it's it's I
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: remember the still remember the first time I watched it.
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: I watched the black and white version and just let
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: it wash over me, and it was it was really fun.
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: It was really enjoyable.
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: NERD cred for watching that.
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: In the I Do a Director Discussion podcast, Tristan, I'm
• 52:12
  Speaker 3: not worried about my NERD cred. She's double four for me.
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: Fair, very fair, Darren, very fair. I'll go ahead and
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: presume it's my turn, So for my turn, I will
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: say that for BVSUE, it's a marked improvement over BVSH,
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: but it still could have been two and a half
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: to two forty five because there is still stuff that's
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: indulgent here that really is not necessary a point to something.
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: In the very beginning, we go from this absolutely incredible
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: opening sequence to kids diving, you know, somewhere in the
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: Indian Ocean for kryptonite, right, and it creates a sudden
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: momentum shift. Whereas if we went straight from Bruce looking
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: up to Lois in the desert to showing Superman doing
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: a good thing and saving her with his powers and going, oh, well,
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: here's the flip side of the destructive power of Superman,
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: we go straight from seeing Batman seeing him the only
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: context he has is he's this godly powerful thing that's
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: a threat to civilization and life as he knows it,
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: to oh, look he's actually he's doing it on a
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: small scale. He's not a monster. You get this immediate flip.
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: And Luther even has the line where it's like, oh,
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: we found a huge chunk of this in the Indian Ocean.
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: That's all I need. I don't need to see them
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: actually get the stuff in the Indian Ocean. That scenes
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: not necessary. And I think that's the type of thing where, yes,
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: the ultimate addition is over long, but you cut the Nightmare,
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: you cut showing the other meta humans, you cut the
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: thing in the Indian Ocean, I've already saved you fifteen minutes.
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: And that's fifteen minutes is a lot of screen time, guys,
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: you know that. So I think what it is is
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: Snyder is his own worst enemy because he has a
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: lot of terrific ideas, and on their own, they work
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: really well. If I take the Nightmare and I pull
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: it out and I show it on its own, it's fantastic.
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: But then it's it. It breaks the rhythm of the
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: movie overall. And I know there are probably Snyder fans
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: listening to this that are yelling at me, you know,
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: through the speakers or whatever. I can't hear you. Sorry,
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: And that's just if they can take Yeah, I'd be
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: in a lot of a lot of trouble right now.
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: But I will say four stars for Bbsue, which compared
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: to what I felt about the theatrical addition, trust Me,
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: is a massive upgrade, massive upgrade. And then zs JL.
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: I give four and a half stars simply because it's
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: four and then half star because man, I long to
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: live to the point where somebody says, you know what,
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: you screwed that up pretty bad. I'm gonna let you
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: do whatever you want. And Snyder showed up and he
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: went whatever I want, and they went yes, they went all.
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: Right, go for it, buddy, and go out there, including
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: a uh wait wait, okay, So what was the name
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: of his zombie movie.
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: It was terrible, Oh, Army of the Dead. It was
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: not terrible. I enjoyed it so shot so Army of
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: the Dead.
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: The shooting you can clearly see, like when we get
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: the nightmare scenario in Justic Donna Dead No no, no, no, no, no,
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: it was it was he did Done of the Dead
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: earlier and you're right, sorry dead, Yes, Army of the Dead.
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: You can clearly see that when he did the Nightmare
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: scenario in Justice League where Joker's there and dead shots.
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: They're not dead shot uh oh uh poop Yeah, not
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: poop either, now that you sit that's the.
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: And like death Roke is there and Mira is there
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: with her accent going in and out and slorg and
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: you have that scene. It's clearly shot in the style
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: of Army of the Dead. Oh yes, because like he's
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: experimenting with it. He's this is like, I'm the same
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: here right now. Yeah they made it the same year.
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, like you can tell. He was just like
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: he's like, no, no, no, I'm into this right now.
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: I forgot what point I was making, but we're moving on.
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: Four stars for me, for both of them, same as you, Darren.
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: I love these movies.
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: They're filled with flaws left and right. I am not
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: trying to glaze over them. I'm not trying to whitewash them.
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: They're filled with flaws. But this stuff that works is
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: so much fun. It's so good. It's so much fun.
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: I will continue to watch them over and over again.
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: I really wish we would get like a comic book
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: version or an animated version of what he wanted to do.
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: I really wish we could get it in some shape
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: or form, because we're clearly never going to get the
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: movie versions of them. Everybody needs to just make their
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: peace with that. But if we could get it in
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: freaking hell, I would take an audio podcast of of
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: the other versions just to get something. But regardless, neither
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: here nor there. So we've been going on for over
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: an hour, which I think is a mark of restraint
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: considering how long these movies are. O Darren, what are
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: we doing next week?
• 57:13
  Speaker 3: Next week we're changing it up with the Lego Batman
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: movie from twenty seventeen. Next on house Lights.
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: First, Try Join the Revolution, Join the net Party.