Latest / Blue Grit Podcast: The Voice of Texas Law Enforcement / #001- "I was facing 2 to 99"

Transcript

#001- "I was facing 2 to 99" · Blue Grit Podcast: The Voice of Texas Law Enforcement

• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: Hey Texas Law Enforcement.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's Blue Grit.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: We are back of another great episode of a brave person that on the show today.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm excited to talk about.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: I am too.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm back with TO.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_02: What it do, Texas?
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_02: So the guest we got on today, Chase Dotson, a good friend of mine from the East Texas area.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: Was in how long were you a law enforcement?
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: It would have been approximately five years.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: Five years.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: Chase worked for a sheriff's office.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_02: We're not going to name the agency.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: But he had a really unique situation.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_02: You were subsequently, I mean, you were arrested, you were charged, you went through the judicial process.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: That's correct.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so we're going to just kind of talk about the uh the critical incident.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: Well, not critical incident, the incident itself that took place and kind of how that process looked.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: You were booked into the same uh the same jail really that you that you worked at.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, man, I'm happy to have you on the show.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: And and just like Clint said, super, super appreciative that you're very willing to do this.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and I think it speaks volumes about you as a person.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: So was this was this your background kind of before we get into it?
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: Was that your first law enforcement gig or did you have another career prior to law enforcement?
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: How was it?
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: Young guy just starting off first gig in law enforcement.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: Only ADC, one ADC.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: One ADC.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I went to the police academy and I was 21.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I got started as soon as I could.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: Good stuff.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: So uh you said it was November what what what what day was it?
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: It would have been November the 22nd or 23rd of 2018.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: So kind of walk us through uh you were working nights, I think.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_02: Was that was the uh tell us kind of how you got dispatched to the call and then what took place uh thereafter.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: So uh we were on meal break, and so you've got four or four or five deputies.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we were sitting down eating, it was two o'clock, one o'clock in the morning.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: It was it was early.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: I remember that.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: And we get a call out that we have a domestic dispute, uh, which if my memory serves correctly was a signal eighteen.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: And uh so a signals signals there were where you work at where you worked at was uh signal eighteen is a disturbance.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: So that's just you know a common, you know, what they what they kind of dispatch uh calls for service at.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_02: So uh go ahead.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: And uh whenever dispatch was giving the call, um we could hear screaming in the background.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, we're in the middle of eating, you know, us brothers were sitting there eating, call comes out, so we know it's serious.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we live in a good sized county, you know, so uh it took us about 15-20 minutes to arrive at the scene.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um we get to the scene uh and there's you've got the female, which was the victim.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: She was uh in the driveway and she was just gone.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, she was she was screaming, you could tell she had been crying.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um things as soon as we show up, we know okay, something has happened, right?
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: Something has happened, but nobody wants to tell us anything.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so the the suspect or you know, whatever you want to call him at this time.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: What is what is called him suspect throughout the show?
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: So so the so the suspect in this uh we walk inside and the first thing that we see is a sliding glass back door is just busted out.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so obviously violence has occurred in this house.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: And um the gentleman was just very, very abusive with his words to everyone.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: To everyone.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: Her and her and officers on scene.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it it got to the point where we we were losing the scene.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: We were.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he he was interrupting every time, you know, we wanted to talk to him and get him to calm down.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: And the best way that that I can describe him is is he had a roller coaster of emotions.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: One minute, you know, he's he's fine.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, he's talking just like we are right now.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: And the next thing you know, he's screaming at us, yelling at us, cussing at us, you know, calling us pigs and things like that.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it just it it overall, you we had four deputies at the scene.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: And um I just remember, you know, it was probably all the whole shift.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: Well, honestly.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it was the whole shift.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: It was.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: Y'all were out there.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's how that's how bad a call it was, right?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, like I said, you could hear screaming when dispatch was giving us the call.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: So the dispatch relays to you guys that had the victim in this is is yelling on the tell on the phone and so forth, which heightens the situation, heightens your response, and yes, kind of lays out the foundation of how you're gonna act when you get there.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so he ultimately is basically arrested.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh eventually I I placed him in handcuffs.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and you know, looking back on it, and you know, just like I told you guys before, I mean, the entire time I was yes, sir, no, sir.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: You put your put your hands behind your back, sir.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, everything I was doing, I I felt like I was I was keeping my composure and I was being as professional.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: Professional as you could as professional as I could, you know, up until the point of I got him in the car.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: And and and I can still remember placing him in the car because he he he was a very tall subject.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember holding his head because I didn't want him to hit his head.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, sir, watch your head as I'm placing him in the patrol car.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: So the ride uh to the jail was essentially uh let's just say colorful in the sense of uh the language.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and and as we as law in law enforcement who have kind of gone through this, uh that's typically when you you have general conversations with folks.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: And it could be, you know, you could you could make that positive impact of man, this is kind of where you messed up at, or you have people who are intoxicated on whether it be alcohol or substance abuse, and that's where the verbal abuse for us is kind of in that window of opportunity for them.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: You said he was verbally abusive and aggressive at the scene to everybody.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: I guess when you got in the squad and checked in or out to the jail, I guess that I guess that abuse became more focused.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: It went into fifth gear.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: So it went into fifth gear and then became solely directed at you.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: That is correct.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because he was probably pissed off he was going to jail.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: He was pissed, he was going to jail.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: And like I said, it was November, whatever.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: I do know it was Thanksgiving the next day.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: Ah, okay.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: So this is Thanksgiving Eve.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_02: Thanksgiving Eve.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_02: So the whole time he is just basically being verbally abusive to you towards the jail, and for those for our members that work in municipalities or our members that work in uh you know highly populated areas, a a ride to the county jail in a rule setting could be take up to 30 to 35 minutes, which is I think is about what it took.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, this deal.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_02: So that's a long time.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you're talking, yeah, well, I mean, hell, even in Dallas, let's be honest.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: You're on the north side of Dallas, it could take a 35-minute ride.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_02: Garland, uh, but you guys had a jail there at the city of Garland.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: You didn't take everybody to lose stereotypes, right?
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: No, but they went to our jail.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, but still, I mean, you could be it's it's a it's a pretty 20-minute ride.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: So this is a 30, you said 30 to 35 minute ride of him cont the continuous abuse.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_02: Uh like what was he saying?
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean So he he was saying things along the lines of, you know, once I get out of this car, I'm gonna beat your fucking ass.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, things like that.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, just just things that you hear on a daily basis when you're when you've got that badge on.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, this is nothing that I have not dealt with before.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like this is nothing new to me at this point.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and again, he was kicking windows and you know, trying to, he was hitting his head on the on the cage.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's a lot of things that were going on other than just words, but you know and here you are trying to drive, and it's just it was it's just a bad situation that you've got to, but but we are you know uh trained to deal with that kind of situation.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so he continued this and continued it and continued it for 35 minutes, and and uh so what happened when he got to the jail?
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: So uh prior to getting getting him out of the vehicle, and uh I will say this on the way to the jail, the abuse and the the um the behavior uh had escalated so much that en route to the jail I had requested assistance.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I I told Dispatch, I you know, I said, Dispatch, I I need assistance, I need more units to meet me at the jail.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh because you know, you know when things will go south.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: You just you have that feeling that some people they just they keep on, keep on, keep on, you know, and and this was one of those situations.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I knew let's get some help in here, you know.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and if you have help, better chance of controlling somebody and not having to de-escalate it.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: Single fight and somebody get hurt, you or the suspect get hurt.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: So you get there, you you pull them out.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: No, I actually didn't even put my hands on him.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I opened the door, and when I did, um fellow officers were were getting him out of the vehicle at this time.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm standing there.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_02: And then kind of walk us through kind of what this I mean for a trigger second, it happened.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: It happened.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um You know, it it was so reactive and it was so quick.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, by the time I realized what had happened, you know, it was it was already too late.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: And that was uh he was pulled out of the vehicle, and I I when I when I saw him, uh I I just started swinging.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: They're in the sally port.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: They're in the sally port.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: I just I I just started swinging.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess all the words came to the top and exploded, and you just Yeah, prior prior to getting him out of the vehicle, right before I unlocked the door, um, he said, I hope you boys are ready, because here it comes.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: Those were the words that were said.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: So on top of everything that had built up to this, you know, I guess in my head I was ready too.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: What was that was there a specific trigger?
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: Was it that, or was the attacks personal where you know he was saying personal the attacks were personal, or what what what do you feel like was the trigger that caused you to I don't think that there was a trigger.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: It was just it was it was everything.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: It was the totality of totality of all of it.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean it just it I mean you guys know how it is.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, it just it it And I think everybody listening probably they can also I mean everyone every if you're not a cop and you've never been through this, you it's not a matter of if it's a matter of when.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_02: When you're gonna go through it.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: And this was not my first time, right?
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it just um so you I think you hit him, you punched him set several.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not sure how many.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, I do believe it was uh it was right at nine times is what they count, eight or nine times is what they counted.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: And he was he he was handcuffed.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: He was, he was handcuffed.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you know it's it's it's hard to talk about because uh being as I was the one doing it, but uh after I think the fourth or fifth punch, he was unconscious.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: He was.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: So it was um after the fifth strike, I believe.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I just you know kept going.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: Do you consciously remember?
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: Do you do you consciously remember that happening, or is it after it was over, you're like, oh shit, video.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: Oh shit.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: I just snapped and I I I just snapped.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: Or do you remember it being a conscious no no no I'm about to start throwing my fists and not at all.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh whenever it was over, when it was done, and I'm I mean seconds afterwards, um, I remember seeing in the in the one of the in-car videos that was pointed into the Sally port was focused on me.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: I was right in front of it.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: And at one point, I mean, I just I dropped my head.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I knew that was it.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: I knew it.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: There's that's what I was gonna walk into or next is just kind of you know, how soon thereafter did you realize?
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_02: Because because just like Clint said, you may not have realized it right then, but I think looking back watching body cam probably and so at what point did you go, oh uh well, I think number one, me knowing you as a person for as long as I have, I I think you probably immediately knew that you had messed up.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um but at what point later on did you did did you know it was gonna essentially end your career?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: I knew once we got to the hospital.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: I knew once uh because after it the incident had happened and you know we took him into the jail.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um my memory serves correct, somebody else took him to the hospital.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think the jail would not accept him at that point.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they looked at the severity of everything and they said, Hey man, we we cannot accept this guy.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you you're you're gonna have to take him.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: And then someone stepped in and said, Well, it's not gonna be him.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: Let's let another officer take him.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, at that time, uh I had to go to the hospital too.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: I did not sustain any injuries, but uh from hitting him, my hand was extremely swollen and I could not feel it.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: And keep in mind it was, you know, 20 degrees outside.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I did not know if my hand was broke or not.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: So once I was told he was going to the hospital, I informed my supervisor.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: I said, I gotta go too.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: And he looked at my hand, he said, Yeah, you do.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: And uh as I'm going into the hospital, I remember looking to my right and seeing the suspect at this point, victim, you know, because that's what he was.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I saw the victim, and that is when I knew I'm done.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: It it you know, once again, dude, I can't, I cannot I'm not praising for your actions that day.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: You're not praising your actions that but for you to get on here and identify, hey, hey, listen, I made a mistake, and and this is kind of how the process worked out for me.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, I think Brian Flatt says it back.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: I I think he says something along the lines of uh uh I may be hurt, but I'm not broken.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I think you're the bounce back of, hey, listen, it this is what I've done wrong, and this is how I'm gonna bounce back.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: And how TNPA helped you through the process is kind of why what the this episode's about.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: And before we steer off of that, um, you know, the peer intervention has become a a big thing in police agencies and training officers to identify, you know, hey, Tyler's Tyler's starting to get pissed, I need to step in.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: And um that hadn't been around long at all.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's extremely new.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: And law enforcement is a very alpha-oriented profession.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think it would have helped then if people had tried to stop you or tackled you, or were you in such a state that you would have probably fought through?
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think the new peer no, no, not at all.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, again, even with me not knowing what I was doing until it was after, there was no stopping me.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: There wasn't.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I and honestly, I think that's why no one did stop me.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: Because there was four deputies standing there, but there was also about three or four jailers.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_02: But the reality is that it it and Clint, you you you and I can watch the video afterwards, and and it happened so quick, so quick.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I don't think there would have been a chance really for anybody to jump in.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm not well, no, yeah, yeah.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I just mean overall.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: Certainly not a judgment for them.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but just the the new peer the new peer intervention and the legislature is tasking um, you know, the mandatory intervention.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: But it's an interesting concept as law enforcement evolves because there's so many factors that play into that.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: You have a 20-year veteran and you have a six-month rookie.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: Is the six-month rookie gonna tell a 20-year veteran, you know, you're out of line, you better calm down, you better back off, you better let go.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: In your instance, you know, it I'm guessing it happened in seconds, is there wasn't even time.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: You spun out like a tornado.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, as soon as as soon as they brought him out of the car, and again, this is just me going back on watching me on a body cam or watching me on that in-car video.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: Because again, I I it happened so quick, I cannot remember it.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: Only just by what I know watching on a video.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: When I got him out of the car, those punches that I threw, the nine punches, eight punches I threw was less than two seconds.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's how quick it was.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: So there wasn't even time for somebody to intervene or no.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: It it happened again, it happened so quick.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: I and I do remember, again, in the in-car video, the the jailers and the deputies that were in there were standing with their mouths open, their eyes wide, and they're it was shock to them like what just happened?
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like how how did we get here, you know?
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: And um that'll be something always burned into my head, you know.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I can imagine.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: And and in my twenties, my temper was hot, and it can take years, decades, in my case, um, to work on self-evaluating, managing emotion and um how you react to certain things and temper.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I can remember my early 20s incidents like that, and then I realize something just happened, and I don't really recall, and I'm not saying police related, but be out in public somewhere and somebody shoves you or you know, does something and and you react and don't realize it, and it's taken till I'm an old fat dude to really continue to work on how you react.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: And again, not a defense to what occurred, and and you're certainly not doing that, but everybody getting into the profession has to be diligent of that and has to uh be evolved.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: And we're always gonna come across that one guy that's been in and out of the penitentiary their whole life, and they know what buttons to push.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they know they they know exactly what to say.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: You start talking about somebody's family or start getting really personal, and you're gonna find a button that you may not want to have pushed, and uh it doesn't justify the conduct, but it's a difficult it's difficult to navigate.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: So you walk, you walk through there, you see the I mean, again, that's a great thing to say at this point, the victim, yes, absolutely the arrestee.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and you immediately know, hey, this is kind of it.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_02: And at what point did you did did you contact TMPA and just kind of how that process worked and what how how how long was it before you were officially charged and what you were charged with and and so forth.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: Do you mind if I go back a couple of years and say one thing?
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: So it would have been 2014 or 2015.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I was approached uh by a fellow officer, and you know, he just came up to me and said, Hey man, do you have TMPA?
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, What is that?
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, and he said, This is what it is.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Okay.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: And not even an hour later, I'm in my patrol car and I'm signed up.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: So now let's go, let's go to that that night.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: I knew once I saw him, I knew once I saw him, and I knew, okay, I I need to pull that card out of my wallet.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: I was given a card that said, you know, if you have an emergency, call this number.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what I did.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um first time I did it.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: And within two minutes, I got a call back.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it was immediate.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: It was immediate.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um I know that I spoke with you that night.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you said, you know, Chase, just hang tight, man, and I'll I'll have somebody call you.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: And um in less than five hours, I'm looking at my attorney.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's how that played out.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: And he drove over an hour to get there.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: But we're talking about in the middle of the night.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's how quick it all happened.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: And this wasn't even a critical instance.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, this is not an officer involved shooting.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_02: This is not, you know, an option, but I think that I think your attorney, which which was Butch Dunbar, if not mistaken.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: Butch Dunbar, he's out of uh Texar, Canada.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: Prior police officer.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: Prior police officer.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: DPD showed Butch Dunbar.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: And so it shows when we as field reps, um, or even our general counsel, Rainy De Bravo, uh, or any any staff or TNPA for that matter, when we recognize you know good attorneys that we think will will be a huge asset to our members.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: And that's that's the reality here, is because it's about you guys and it's about the membership and it's about the legal plan.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: And when we see those kind of people, it it's it's up to us to kind of push those through and Butch is the perfect mold, in my opinion.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: Just like a couple of a couple weeks ago, we had uh Harrison County District Attorney come down uh and we spoke with him, and he's the next cop.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, and and when you're a cop and you're now an attorney, it it just it just blends well.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Lance Wyatt out of Dallas, you know, he was a former uh was it Dallas cop?
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Lance was Dallas, Butch was Dallas, John Schneider was Pasadena and Irving.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I mean it it it does it does meet uh kind of a certain criteria and when they and when you find those it's good.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: So so you kind of let Bitch know what's going on.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um and then what point how how when were you charged and how long that took place?
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so um it would have been about two days after the incident.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, of course I was told, you know, hey, as of right now, you are suspended uh without pay, knew that was coming.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you know, that was the the days of of of getting with Butch and and getting a game plan.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, it was the next week, it would have been a week later, is when I was told, you know, hey, it's probably best you go ahead and put your two weeks in.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, go ahead and get that out of the way.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um and this is all under his counsel.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, this is I can't stress how much um how much help TMPA was because if it wasn't for TMPA, I would not have known what to do, where to start, where to I I would have been clueless.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when when when I was given the the um when I got my my packet in the mail with all my TMPA things after becoming a member, I never knew, I never thought one day I'm gonna pull this card out of my wallet.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and it'd be the and possibly be one of the worst days of your life or worst days of your career.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you just don't you don't know it.
• 24:45
  unknown: Yeah.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: Well, so uh how how how long did it take for you to be officially charged, uh indicted and arrested and so forth?
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so I would have been they I interviewed with the Texas Rangers, it would have been uh December 13th, 14th, 5th, 15th, somewhere in there.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: Interviewed with him, and then in May, May.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: So what six months later, five months later is when I got the call.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: And uh that you were indicted?
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: I got a call that I was indicted and that uh a warrant would be issued for my arrest.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: What kind of phone call is that to get?
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: How how do you process that?
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that's an emotion I can't describe because you go to the um where you worked at where you I was I was did you book it get booked into the same I was booked into the same jail where I had uh putting you know I had I had placed people that needed to be in jail now here I am in that same jail.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, I was booked in by a guy that uh I helped train.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wow the whole time he was booking me in, he was crying.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: I can imagine.
• 26:08
  unknown: Yeah.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: I guess you work with your attorney, hey, I need to go turn myself in, or your attorney calls and says, Hey, you got dotted, we need to figure out where to turn you in.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, what's crazy is uh you know I I had such a close relationship with my boss at that time, and uh he gave me the phone call.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I actually got the phone call before my attorney did.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so I actually had to call my attorney and say, Hey, I just got the news, and he said, Wow.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: He said, Okay.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: And the the initial charge was official oppression.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, that is what I was charged with in May, May 17th of 2019.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, keep in mind, as we're approaching the a year after the incident, um I get another phone call.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, here I am thinking, okay, this is a court date.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because at this, at this point, I do believe I'd already had my preliminary hearing.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'd already been in front of the judge once at this point.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: I just I can't remember what it's for.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought when my phone rang and it said Butch Dunbar, I said, okay, well, he's calling me to tell me some, you know, hopefully some good news.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: Because at this point, I'm a year has gone by.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've got a family, and you know, I'm in, I can't get a job uh because you can't move forward with your life because there's absolutely nothing I can do.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: So a year has gone by and I get a phone call, and of course I'm starting to get a little excited because I'm thinking, okay, the end is near.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: And Butch says, Chase, uh, are you sitting down?
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, I can be.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: He says, Well, you're gonna need to.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Okay.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: And he says, I don't know what has happened, but apparently a special prosecutor has taken over this case, and now they have indicted you for aggravated assault by a public servant, caused serious bodily injury.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: And um that was tough.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: And then it I did you have to get rearrested?
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: I did.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: Again, again, again, again, and uh there were some more charges added too.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um after that, after that, there was more charges added.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: And not sure why they were, but they were.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I was now looking at two felonies, which you know, you had my sec the second degree or first degree, and then you had your uh third degree or state jail felony, which was gonna be the tampering with evidence, which was it uh dismissed by the judge, no evidence in that whatsoever.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um and still official oppression.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I was I got two additional charges on top of what I was already charged with.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Okay, Butch, well, what does this mean?
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, Can you meet me at the jail in an hour?
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: And it was December the 16th, a week before Christmas.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then a month later I get even worse news.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: Now COVID has hit and court systems are shut down.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: So for three years I sat waiting, no job, nothing.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: So indicted with no trial date, essentially, is that right?
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: My the trial date got moved.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean this might seem like an exaggerate number 20 times.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: So you were indicted out on bond with no trial date?
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: With no trial date.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: Unemployed.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: Unemployed, three kids.
• 30:07
  unknown: Wow.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: And um can't sit here and say it was easy.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I can imagine.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: Did you um what were you facing?
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_02: So uh you you were essentially there upcharged the situation, but what what were you facing with the official oppression?
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: Facing as far as uh the the sentencing.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh up to a year in jail.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: Up to a year, and now we we now I'm now I'm looking at five to ninety nine.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_02: Five to ninety nine.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: Five to ninety-nine.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so we COVID hits, you know, we have to go through I think everybody went through that, obviously.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and I and I know I was not the only one that got put on hold.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just right.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: No, I I completely understand it was it was a it was a different situation for you because you can't move forward with your employment, uh, obviously in a in a different area.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you have to get this behind you in order for you for you to move forward.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_02: You don't know if you're gonna be able to, you know, uh get a job again.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: Uh we know it's not gonna be in law enforcement.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: So how long there thereafter was the trial and um how did you know Butch do in that?
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_02: And obviously he did pretty good because you're sitting next to me.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: You're not you're not in TDC.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um kind of what that process looked like.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um so you want to begin at uh kind of when trial started?
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like how how so you said it was three years until until you went to trial.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um there was a lot of there was a lot of again, the trial date was moved so many times that there was no excuse for for me or Butch not to be prepared.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah because there was so much time in between.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: But I will say this the amount of work I had to do to prepare for this was minimal.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: Trial by judge or trial by jury?
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: By jury.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: By jury.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we had requested by judge, and we were denied.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so the jury carried it out.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: And we were, you know, it was it was tough, you know, sitting there listening to the statements and the witnesses and the experts, and watching that video over and over and over again, and watching the faces on those jury members while they're watching your video.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: And that was tough.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, it was tough because I think I think and it this is just me generalizing it, but I think for obviously for the most part, I mean, the state of Texas and that agency provided you with a gun and badge for four to five years, right?
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_02: And you were uh you know in charge of people's safety and in charge of of enforcing the law.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that just like we do with other situations, I think that they were essentially you know giving judgment for two minutes of an absolute horrible decision that you snapped and and now you're you have to stand trial for, which I'm not negative.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: Two seconds you said it those punches took two seconds and two seconds of a five-year career is based on, and and again, for the viewers not justifying what occurred.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely not.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: Not at all.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: But we want everybody to Chase is brave enough to come on and talk about his failures, and I'm the world's worst at being able to admit when I screwed up or when I'm wrong.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: So um this is about viewers and and new folks in law enforcement getting to understand what happens rather than just hearing about it on CNN or an article you read in a paper, you're getting to hear it, how it happened, what it looks like, the good, the bad, the ugly, and uh not justifying what occurred, but but what happens, what's real, what happens in uh one person's experience and and how they come out the other side from it.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: So they go ahead.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: I was just gonna say, you know, you you especially being a young law enforcement officer, you you you go home, we have social media, and you and you see the the things that are going on out there that you know cops are doing and you know they're getting bashed for, and you never think that'll be me one day.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: It never crosses your mind.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because you got you got blasted pretty good in the media.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you you never expect it.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so you know you're not.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm sure nobody plans to do it.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's why you always think it'll never be me.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: What you nobody plans to snap.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: You think, you know, well, I would never do that.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: You you think that you think that that's something I would never do.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: And and like you said earlier, you know, you take you take what I did in those five years, which, you know, five years in law enforcement, there's a lot can happen.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, and all the good that I did in those five years is gone.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: Just like that.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, yeah.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's crazy.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that that's decisions law enforcement makes every single day that we're judged on.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: Is a split second decision, good or bad, has to be made in split seconds that potentially pay, we'll pay for it their professionally the rest of our career, or lose our life if we make the wrong decision.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not saying yours was a critical incident.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: But there's split-second decisions that are made every day, either out of fear or emotion, that have to be made, and uh sometimes they go sideways.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_02: So trial comes up.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_02: You still had Butch.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_02: Still had Butch.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_02: Butch did a phenomenal job uh in the trial.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and that's where I was going with that.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry, I don't mean to cut you off, but I'm going back to what you asked me about.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: Just cut them off.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: You you asked me, you know, how was Butch and all that, and that's why I was telling you about the juries, you know, that the the the anguish, the mental anguish, I you know, that the the it would there were so many emotions that I was feeling.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: There was sadness, there was anger, there was, you know, it was just and the whole time I've got Butch right there beside me.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be all right.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: Being your rock.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he kept me um, he kept a smile on his face the whole time, and he just kept telling me, you know, it's gonna be all right.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be all right.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, you don't I wasn't listening to him, I'm gonna be honest.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: But who the hell wouldn't?
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: You don't know what I'm going through.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: You're facing five to ninety nine, yeah.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, and and you know, but the whole time he just he just kept it positive and and he kept saying, he said, hey man, I've got you.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: I've got you.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: I've got you.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: And and he meant it.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_02: And what it what what what at the end of trial you got, I think, sentenced to was it 60 days?
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: 90 days.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: 90 days county jail.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so they so at the end, uh obviously uh they found me not guilty of the of the uh felony and then they dismissed the tampering with evidence charge.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: So again, they So the judge dismissed the tampering?
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, the jury found you not guilty of the felony.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: And the jury found you guilty of official oppression.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: No, I the the the moment that trial started, I I pled guilty.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: I pled guilty to the official oppression.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, it's it's again, he was the victim.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, there's no fighting that.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, you you you can either fight what you know you did wrong, or you just admit, like, hey man, I messed up.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I I own up to what I did, and that's exactly what I did.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: And and it was, and that was actually a decision that, you know, Butch looked out for me in my best interest on every decision that we made together.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: And every time he asked me a question, and there were a million questions, and I would give him my answer, and then Butch would always tell me, that's a great answer, but I've got a better one.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just, it was the guidance, it was the counseling that he did.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's why I'm saying, like, the amount of effort that he put into it and how he helped me in that whole situ the three years of the three years of hell that I put myself in without TMPA, without Butch, I would not be talking to y'all right now.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: I promise you that.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: So we're clear, you said it was a trial by jury, and then you just said you pled guilty.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: So you pled guilty to one charge?
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: The official oppression.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then went to trial on the others?
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: No, it was all we all ran together.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: We did all three charges at the same time.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: But before the trial started, we pled guilty to official oppression, and so then it was mainly we're going after the tampering, which again got dismissed because no during the trial, no evidence was even brought up about the tampering.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, once Butch said something to the judge, he said, you know, judge, he said, We we've got this charge of tampering.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I'm not sure we're there.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: And and he said, and and prosecution has not even brought it up.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know, judge said, You're absolutely right.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: I, you know, he dismissed it.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: It was pretty quick.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then once they read me the or once they said that we found you guilty, um, uh, or we found you not guilty, that is whenever they dismissed and uh said, Well, come back later for the sentencing part of the official oppression.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: And uh the goal, the the the objective was for me to never get on the stand from day one.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you know, Butch Butch told me something.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: I I want to say it was the first day we met, which is the next day after the incident, same day as the incident, you know, he told me he said nothing ever comes good from the officer getting on the stand ever.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: Which won't which would have been Thanksgiving Day.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_01: Essentially, is what you're saying.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, and Butch left his family on Thanksgiving to come deal with me.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_00: So sentencing done by judge or jury?
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: Did jury decide your jury?
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: The jury did.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: The jury did.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so jury selected 90 days?
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they took into uh consideration uh the fact that for three years, you know, and I'm not saying that I was in jail, but it felt like it.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: It felt like it because keep in mind I media blasted, I couldn't go anywhere.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: I I could not go anywhere and show my face in this town without hanging my head, you know.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not because I didn't have the the guts.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't that.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: It was just, you know, I was embarrassed.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_01: I was embarrassed of what I did.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I let a lot of people down.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: It says a lot about your character that you felt that way rather than, oh, you know what, screw those people.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't do nothing wrong.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, or he provoked me to do it, you know.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and and not taking anything away from the victim, the guy that was the suspect, now the victim, but to have been a good guy, to have been a cop, to have been on the right side of justice, and then spend three years during COVID with 99 years dangling over your head wondering, uh, that would that would have consumed me.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: That would have consumed me.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it was um it was it was a very dark time.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'll say that.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: And uh uh only a few people know this, but yeah, I mean I I it's several times suicide crossed my mind.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: It did.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I don't think any human would probably have had those same thoughts, you know, because at that point you just you you feel like this is it.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and what's a cop gonna how's a cop gonna survive for 99 years in TDC?
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: TDC you probably don't it's it's it's probably one of the most nerve-wracking things that I mean you'll I hope no one ever has to go through.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's it's horrible.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because you really can't at this point.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_02: So at this point, you you you can't lean on your law enforcement family because you you probably feel blackballed.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um that you're even speaking with you can't be seen with them because you're out on bond.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_02: You worked for a sheriff's office and the political dynamics of that, those that work at sheriff's offices can completely understand.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, I can I can only imagine really what you you're going through.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of the a lot of the, you know, and I and I do still still consider them brothers, but uh, you know, a lot of the brothers that I had, um, you know, still this day I didn't talk to them.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and it's it's not that and I don't think it has anything to do with, you know, they don't want to talk to me.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, you know, I'd love to talk to them.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's just, you know, they had to distance themselves.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's something that I had to understand.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: Because at first, you know, you feel, you know, a little bit of not necessarily betrayal, but you feel like, you know, we had a bond better than this.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_01: And and and you know, obviously I feel like now we don't.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_00: And some of it may be I've heard people say before, after you lose a loved one, people are like, Yeah, I could just kind of avoided you because I wasn't sure what to say, or I didn't want it to be awkward, or I didn't want to say something stupid.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so some of it may not have been intentional, but just be like, Hey, so what you been up to?
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: Or how's your trial going, bro?
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_00: Or uh not knowing what what to say.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was it was, and you know, and I did and a lot of those guys I I I have talked to, I've reached out to, and you know, be seeing as how I was booked into the jail, uh, you know, I was able to see some of those guys.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I was able to hang my I was able to hold my head high.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: I was because you know, at this point, you know, it was over.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_01: It was over.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I knew I had 90 days.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: Close that chapter.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_01: And just move on, you know, and live and you learn.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_02: Chase, I can't again, uh this takes a lot for you to come in and do this.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_02: It takes a lot for you to say, Hey, you know, I messed up.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, you know, speaking of the mental health side of of it, the uh it's just it's a remarkable story.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_02: Uh you're braver than I am, brother.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and it it it's neat to hear, you know, we as field reps, when we assign these cases sometimes, um, you know, Clint's up in North Texas, you know, I'm in East Texas, but I may speak with somebody in uh at Westlica or at San Antonio.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_02: So you don't have those constant relationships.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I I am in your area, and so we don't see the full process, and so it's really neat uh hearing just really how number one, how good of attorneys we got.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_02: Butch Dunbar is a phenomenal person.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um he does good work.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_02: The best.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_02: And he's a good guy.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_02: But we've got to be able to do that.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_02: We've got 40 Bush Dunbars across the state.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's the main message that that we want to push.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_02: We we we at TMPA certainly aren't promoting bad behavior, uh, but when you do have mess ups and you do make mistakes uh a longer career, uh, you know, you're also owed due process and you're also owed that ability uh to kind of go through that that that process.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_02: So uh Chase, what's the next chapter?
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um the tit let's not end this on a bad note, let's end this on a positive note.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_00: So what what is before we move into closing chapter?
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_00: What would 32-year-old Chase say to 28-year-old Chase working deep nights?
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: What would 32-year-old Chase now that knows or to what would 32-year-old Chase say to 22-year-old young person getting into the profession now that you see from your perspective?
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'll I'll say this.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um when I was in law enforcement, I cannot tell you a time that I that I prayed.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I would say just pray more.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_01: Pray more because you know, it was it was it was a very it was a it was a dark time, and you know I'm not necessarily I'm I'm not necessarily gonna say that that you know I wasn't religious or anything, but like I just I was a very one-man show, you know, and you know, there were so many things that that I thought that I could handle alone, which was you know the exact opposite.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, and again, I'm not trying to make this religious, but you know, I just I didn't have God in my life.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so maybe be a bit more centered and not self-centered, not saying you were self-centered, but no, I was, and I'll I'll admit that.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_00: Being a bit more centered and grounded and yeah, being I mean, being a cop, guys, I mean, we're it arrogant.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_01: What cop isn't arrogant?
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_01: Almost all cops are arrogant, right?
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's just our our Yeah, I think I don't want to say arrogant, strong personality, strong personality.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_02: It can be perceived as arrogant sometimes.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, uh, you know, but I understand where you're coming from.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and there's a lot of authority into a young 21, 22 year old and responsibility.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of authority responsibility that I I can go out and take somebody's freedom away.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_00: And um sometimes, depending on maturity and age and life experience, that's a big responsibility for somebody to throw on their back and how they manage, yeah, how they manage that.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_02: So what's the next chapter?
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh this week or this this week or next week, I'll be graduating from a barber academy.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, cutting hair.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_01: Cutting hair.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_02: I uh don't say it like that.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_02: You gotta have some spaces to it.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you're starting a new career, and and that's you know, for you to uh have have been through so so much and then to you know start a new career field, uh and then come on a show like this amongst other cops and and talk about it.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um I admire the hell out of that.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm telling you, we talk about being centered and and mature, and I don't think I I can't screw up when I run over a curb and I can't admit I can't admit when I do something wrong.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm I commend you for letting others hear and hopefully consider, learn, reflect.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, if you're one of those persons prone to spinning up or blacking out or getting so pissed that you can rage and getting so pissed you don't know what you're doing.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_00: And we we talk about mental health a bunch on the podcast, and one of the things there was a time uh when I was on deep nights, things weren't good at the department.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: We were shorthanded, it was busy.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_00: I was only my whole life focused around being a cop.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_00: I was so caught up in the profession that I had no friends outside the department, I had no hobby outside the department my entire life, and my stress was so high, which then causes your anger and temper and emotions, and you run hot call to hot call.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_00: There's the potential there on every call for somebody to explode.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_00: And the mental health industry of this, we talked on a podcast with a DA we had on a couple episodes ago about have friends outside law enforcement, have hobbies outside law enforcement, find a church home, find um a group of people to be involved with that make you a better person.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, not just consumed in the in being a cop.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_01: And that yeah, that's what I was gonna say.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like it it is so easy to be consumed by law enforcement.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_01: It is.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it is.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's a fun career field.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it's a rewarding career field, and it and it's got its pros and cons, but it's easy.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_02: All right, man.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_02: Well, this about wraps it up.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_02: We got a couple quick questions.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_02: We're we we we always ask all of our guests.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it's three questions.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_02: Best cop movie or cop movie line.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_02: Line from a cop movie.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_02: Line from a cop movie.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_02: And why?
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_01: Oh.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so I'm gonna have to go with the departed on this.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good show.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm a huge one.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a good departed guy.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_01: I like it.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_01: I like Martin Scorsese.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_02: So best police vehicle in Y.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_01: Crown Vick.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_02: There you go.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody on here.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_02: I knew Tyler was gonna love it.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_02: There we go.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's Crown Vick.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_01: And what's the best whiskey?
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_01: Oh.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go with some makers more.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_02: Good one, too.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_02: That's been a common answer on the show.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's a real good one.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_02: Well, brother, again, I can't uh I can't thank you enough for coming on.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's one of it's been a pleasure, and it's it's good hearing these kind of stories.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um so appreciate it.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you all.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you all for having me.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_02: You guys stay safe.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, it's near Christmas, so uh sadly that it heightens the uh uh the safety risk out there.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I'm Tyler Owen, your host, Clay McNear.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_02: Appreciate you guys serving.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_02: As always, God bless you and may God bless Texas.