Latest / Brands, Beats & Bytes / Album 6 Track 23 - What's Poppin? AI Marketing 101

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Album 6 Track 23 - What's Poppin? AI Marketing 101 · Brands, Beats & Bytes

• DC: Brand Nerds! Brand nerds! Brand nerds! Back at you with another podcast. Brands, Beats, and Bytes. What's Poppin Edition? What's Poppin LT? What is Poppin D? I'm so excited about this one, man. I am, too. I am, too. This, this reminds me of something, uh, Larry. Way back in the day, Larry, uh, you'll recall that there was this thing called the Internet. LT: Yeah. DC: It's the Internet. And so as this thing was, so, uh, listen, Brand Nerds, you boys and girls who may go like, Ooh, you're going way back. Now the internet was around a long time before, uh, before I was born. But for some of us Brand Nerds, we were around before the internet was born. And here's how it went down. You heard about. A few phases. First, the internet is coming. LT: Yes. DC: That's phase one. Second, the internet is here, right? Third, the internet is growing. Everything was the internet. Interestingly, what we heard most about during that time was the, what, what is the internet, what we didn't figure out until a long time after that. And dare I say, even now, decades later was how to leverage it effectively. And I might say the same thing about AI now, Brand Nerds, what is AI? How you leverage AI a little less known. And in this what's popping episode, LT, we got some experts in the building who are going to break down, not just the what, but the how of AI. Who do we have in the building LT? LT: Oh, we've got the three co founders of Firebay Studios, which is an AI startup. We've got our great friend, Ed Collins and his co founder colleagues, Garrett Cahill and Kaveen Jayamanna. So welcome gentlemen. Ed Collins: Thank you guys. Pleasure to be here. Garrett Cahill: Thanks for having us. DC: Oh, Larry. Oh, no, Larry. The fact that you hit that Jayamanna without like a skip or at all, I mean, I am impressed, brother. I am. Kaveen Jayamanna: I love it. I love it. I love it. It's awesome. LT: Awesome. And Brand Nerds, Ed Collins may sound familiar because Ed has been a previous guest on our show. Ed is a great friend. And if you, you should definitely go check out. Ed's show that we did in entirety, which was Album Four, Track 16. So, okay. Brand Nerds as we all know, and DC alludes to AI is popping and is really a game changer, especially as it pertains to marketing. We also know we Brand Nerds are still trying to figure out really how to best utilize AI, and we think you will find what the folks at Firebay doing will really help you advance your thinking regarding AI and marketing. And that is why we invited them onto the podcast today. So, okay, gents, I don't know who's going to take this, but can you please tell the Brand Nerds about Firebay Studios? Like what do you guys do? How did you get started? Your ideal client, et cetera. Ed Collins: I'm going to let Garrett kick it off. Go for it, G. So Garrett Cahill: Firebay Studios is an AI production startup where we do an intersection of automating all of these different advertisers, companies, anybody that needs to build ads, we help them automate it. And there's kind of a few folds how we do it. So number one is a typical SaaS product. Think of this as you can attack. Whatever you want. So a script and you get the output of a fully broadcast quality AI produced app. What you do, you can select the voice, you can select the intonation, what energy level you can get really specific on the quality that you want. And then number two, if people want services, we also offer that. So we can go in and build products and ads for these people. LT: Wow. So tell us. Tell us, Garrett, again, Kaveen and Ed, whomever, how long does this take? Because, you know, one of the things we know from AI is that It's, it's one of these things that it's almost plug and play. Right. Ed Collins: Yeah. You know what? So I've been in advertising for a long time, Larry, um, over 30 years. And so I've got a lot of experience in this area. And so when we started this. We leaned on some of that experience, but we also went back into the market. And we actually, as we develop the idea here, we looked at opportunities to deploy AI and we'll certainly get into that audio technology, audio production was one of those prime areas to target. So we went out to the market and we, we kind of did this research again to say, how long does it take and what does it cost? And what is the process to produce radio ads? And ultimately, what we found is that kind of the general answer was takes about a week cost about 1500 bucks, and we know it can be pretty arduous to get to that result. So a week, a week to produce an ad. Now, in my experience, that's actually not even that bad. A week is not that bad. It can be a lot longer. But to answer your question, we can produce an ad, and we have produced ads. We don't promise this, but we can do it. In a couple of hours. So the technology now allows you to do things pretty much in real time. If you have a good input in as to what we're seeking with an advertising agency and advertiser is seeking, we have the talent, we have the experience, and we certainly have the technology to execute super high quality ads in a matter of minutes. What we do promise is we'll get it back to you within 24 hours. And that's, that's kind of unheard of. Garrett Cahill: And one real cool thing too, LT, our record for the fastest ad is 17 minutes. To real boil down what Firebay studios is, is we're an AI production studio that can build ads in minutes instead of weeks. LT: Well, that boils it down. That's crazy, you guys. And and so are I would imagine that when you're talking to folks and Ed, you and I have talked about this. So I know people are like a bit incredulous about it, right? Um, but I, but I would also imagine how have you found like, is there an arms race? Like, do you have a lot of competitors? Like, how, how is that working? Um, because again, this is Brand Nerds and everywhere. We're all trying to figure this out. How is this all actually working in the marketplace with you and potential clients and the way this is all happening? Kaveen Jayamanna: Yeah, I think I can. Yeah, go ahead. Go for it. Yeah, so I can take this question, I think. Uh, so right now there's a big arm race between big companies like OpenAI, 11Labs, uh, big players that we know. And it, the dynamic is very changing, so you really don't know what direction that you're going. Um, so, like, sort of like the challenge right now is how do you produce the exact quality that you needed for, let's say, advertisers or, um, radio ads, for example. Right. So to, um, to stay competitive, what you need to focus on is getting the, uh, right quality. So something that we do the best compared to like the rest of the competitors is that, uh, we know how to, um, first off pick the right voice and then also, um, how to manipulate. Um, certain like parameters for the, um, a model to get the right output. Um, and then package it together to get the radio quality, uh, that the clients are looking for. Um, what we've heard from our clients so far is that they're struggling to, let's say, get on in our labs, uh, get a voice, uh, try to create the ad, but they can't really match the quality that we have. So, um, so as of right now, um, that is the way you can sort of get ahead. How do you figure out these, uh, flawed, uh, AI's that are built by big companies and get the best output, uh, possible LT: Because obviously Kaveen, that was great. Cause I'm glad you, you took it back to, you know, the Chat GPTs and it, you know, the, the larger companies. I think what you guys bring is a focus to really understanding what an advertiser is looking for. So are you guys, are there ads in the, like, have you produced ads and is it in the marketplace? Are you still in development? Where are you guys at with that? Ed Collins: Yeah, we are in the market. Um, and we produced, um, we were talking about this this morning. I think we've produced a couple hundred ads already on behalf. I mean, we've been in business for about 18 months. One thing I wanted to indicate here in the advertising industry, this is what I think a real differentiator is for us. It's quality for sure, but in the advertising industry, you're producing products, you're producing ads, or you're producing media plans, or you're producing things on behalf of your client, but it's a service industry. And that's what we really focused on is taking that experience and we've been absolutely committed to making sure we're phenomenal partners for our clients because we know what they need to the point what happens inside an ad agency, what happens inside of a client environment. Here's what you need. Think of the old, the old trinity of this. Pick two of these, right? Good, fast, cheap, right? So technology now allows you to really handle all three of those. Absolutely mandatory for us, and we push ourselves all the time to be as close to perfect as we can be with the quality of the ads. We're always committed to that. If it doesn't sound quite right, do it again, do it again, do it again, get it right to where it needs to be. So quality is high speed is off the charts. It's just, it's unmatchable. So fast. And I hate to use the word cheap. We don't want to use the word cheap, but less expensive and more affordable. So in today's changing environment, look, man, it's a tough economy. Every advertiser is trying to sell more of their product, trying to build more market share. Every dollar matters. So when you can lower that cost and retain the quality, be a great partner and deliver things quickly, it's a really phenomenal package. So we're really proud to say the relationships that we've developed with our clients are outstanding. They're critically important to us. We're in constant contact with our clients. And they seem to be very happy with the end result. LT: D, this is phenomenal stuff. I know you got some thoughts churning. DC: I do. I do. Okay, I'mma direct this to you, Brother Garrett. I've got two questions. The corollary that I set up at the beginning was the internet. And when the internet dropped, there was this thing called AOL. I know some of the Brand Nerds still have their at AOL. com. For those of you that still have that, drop it. Y'all are old. Okay? Y'all are old. But when AOL came out, looking back, not at the time, but looking back, I viewed AOL as training wheels for the internet. And then when, when the internet started to grow and our sophistication as users grew with it, we no longer needed the AOL, uh, training wheels. So Garrett, my question to you is what's the equivalent of AI training wheels and then taking them off. And where is your firm relative to that? That's my first question. And then I have a second question right after this, but please, Garrett Cahill: Great question, and I love the backstory behind it. Really, the best comparison of AOL is OpenAI. They're the foundation model that provides text to speech, text to video, all of these different models that allows businesses to build on top of them. And so I'm sure you guys are using OpenAI's models on any AI products that you're touching that doesn't have OpenAI's label, but they're using some aspect of OpenAI. Then what we're seeing on top of this is you have other large incumbents. You have Meta, you have Google, you even have Apple that are building their own LLM models in order to compete and to see who can be the fastest, the fastest, the best. Whatever that might look like. And what we're seeing is people who are winning have the best data - proprietary data. So a great example is Reddit. They have a 200 million contract with Google. So Google can scrape all of Reddit's data and feed it into the LLM models to make them that much faster, that much better, that one much more accurate. Where we play in this space is we are the experts on top of these models. So oftentimes, the grid corollary, and Kaveen was mentioning this, is ElevenLabs. There's much, there's tons of these text to speech models. OpenAI has them, ElevenLabs has them, but the problem with them is it's really hard to get good quality. You need to have expert prompting, you need to be technical, and that's where we can come in and use our expertise to get these ads to the quality that they're broadcast quality that people just can't today if they're not technical. And so that's where we're really playing. There's a foundation model, which is OpenAI, ElevenLabs, these are the people where companies are building on top of them, and we are on top of these models. Kaveen Jayamanna: And do you see one thing to add, uh, to the AOL analogy? Um, open AI figure out how to talk to AIs. What I, what I mean by that is, um, all the modalities of AI we see today, like audio, video, whatever that is, uh, you need some kind of a prompter input to that AI, and then that, uh, prompt is going to be probably English or maybe Chinese, whatever that language is. OpenAI figure out how to convert your text input into something that the AIs can understand. That way you can express your output, let's say in video form, audio form, whatever that is. That way the humans can interact with the AI. So that's like the breakthrough of it. LT: Interesting. DC: Excellent. Excellent. Any more before I go to my second question? Okay. Um, this has to do with transparency. So one of my boys, one of my best friends, his name is Seth Matlins. I call Seth Jimmy. So if he listens to this, what up, Jimmy? And, uh, we've talked about this, Larry. Jimmy, we got to get you on this podcast, brother. So Jimmy, Seth Matlins, he is managing director of the Forbes CMO network. This is a very powerful job, very powerful job. He also launched an organization. I want to say about eight years ago, could be longer about companies showing, uh, actors and models in print and beyond who looked like they were pristine and perfect except It was photoshopped or airbrushed or something like that. They were unrealistic. And what Seth, Seth's mission was, is to ensure that when these images are brought forward, if they have been altered, that they state that it's been altered. They stated what a wonderful thing for Seth to do. So he was at the forefront of that. Many of the changes in our industry that we've seen regarding transparency, honesty, imagistically, Seth has been a part of that, which brings me to my second question. These ads are being created with AI. So oftentimes we're not dealing with a real human's voice, an AI that's mimicking one or real image, although it's being using AI to do it, it's AI. What are your thoughts collectively on when these ads are released, whether to or not to, from your perspective and your clients to say, yo, by the way, y'all, this is AI shit going on here. Garrett Cahill: This is a perfect question for you. Ed Collins: Well, listen, we're all, we're all learning together with this to the point about the internet is new. And, you know, I refer back to the iPhone, it changed things like AI is changing things. And our expectations are kind of going with it. Um, I'm gonna, I'm gonna give you a little background then I'll come to your question, DC. When we first started this, there was a little bit of, a little bit of reservation because we did this very quickly. Like when the technology is, is launched, we're on it. Like we're, we're very quick to market on this. So as I started broaching the subject with people, um, there was a little bit of skepticism, a little bit of confusion, a little bit of fear because AI is singularized, it's this thing. And how does it impact my life? And is it going to attack my bank account and our foreign countries going to come in and take over? And is it going to replace human beings and all of these different things? So when you, when you really talk about the application of it, it's none of that. This is none of that, excuse me. This is, I think, really appropriate use of phenomenal technology that empowers the business. To do as we were saying earlier move more quickly Um have high quality and move more robustly. I don't think in this space people care I don't think they care. I think what happens is when you are manipulating the truth In misrepresenting things, people have a problem with it. When I don't know if that's, if it's a model, and you're, you're representing a hair product, or makeup, or something, and I don't know that that's real, I feel like I'm being manipulated. And I thought that could be problematic. So I think you've got to use discernment in how you're using the technology. We're not representing actors. Um, I've been asked in the past. Can you can you do an ad like we did back in the day? Sometimes it said celebrity voice impersonated to me. That's manipulation of AI. And the answer to that question is we can do that. Yes, we won't do that. You're not going to try to manipulate anybody. Now what we're doing is we're presenting in this case, factual information about products, about services, about companies, um, And we're presenting it in a very professional way. So our judgment is we want to be as transparent as we possibly can be. I don't think my opinion, my professional estimation, I don't think that people are feeling manipulated by the kinds of ads that we're producing. And I think it's perfectly okay to do this, um, to deliver the message on behalf of our clients. LT: Great answer. D can I hit a, hit a question? So this goes out to any of you all would love to hear you chime in on what you all think. What advice would you provide brands as they are thinking about incorporating AI into their marketing? They're dipping their toes in or maybe they're, they're going feet first and plunging in. What should they lean into, right? And then you could also maybe posit some thoughts about what they should avoid. Garrett Cahill: That's a brilliant question. So for companies that are doing advertising today, you need to start using AI to produce your ads because you get it better, faster, cheaper. A great front runner in this is Coca-Cola. They just released an AI full ad, yep, a few days ago. That is these Coca-Cola trucks driving through a mountain city with snow falling these AI animals, and it's going viral. If you're not using it today, you're gonna be behind the eight ball and your clients yourself. You're not gonna see outsized returns. I guarantee you, as a brand, you're seeing AI radio ads, AI, social media ads. Video ads, all of these are starting to emerge and you need to be the first in line in order to capture the market and in fact, you'll see also a better return on your investment for those produced ads. Ed Collins: So it's by the way, these gentlemen work at coca cola. Yeah, so I know this is gonna come up. LT: Oh, it's funny and I was debating which whether I asked about that ad specifically or I wanted to keep it more Sort of larger. So i'm glad garrett went there. So garrett You As Ed alluded to, DC and I both worked, uh, in Atlanta HQ and, uh, we, uh, we definitely have seen the ad and, uh, we have some thoughts and I'll be honest with you. I think that the ad was not well done. I think that I, I do appreciate the fact, and by the way, we talked about this on a previous podcast, but I think we really want to visit with you guys. That it wasn't well done. The fact that they tried to replicate an older ad and not doing something, you know, that was more future oriented, I think was a mistake, and I don't know that they should have started in holiday. But, you know, hey, give him give him credit for taking that risk, right? Um, but it what's interesting to me is they have another ad out that is humans juxtaposed, um, with, with it's about kids trying to get home for the holidays, which is a great Coca Cola ad and it's a tearjerker and all the pitfalls of and with great music behind it. And I see those two and it's: humans: one AI: zero. You know what I mean? Just when you're looking at those in in, uh, in aggregate, and that's okay that you know. And again, this is very subjective. That's that's my view. Um, and again, I give Coke credit the the for for trying. Um, but it's actually a cautionary tale of when to do it and how to do it. In my opinion, D. Ed Collins: I'm so the debate is on. The debate is on. I know you have opinions on this. Come on. Come on, DC. Come on. I know you well enough to know you got an opinion on this. DC: I most certainly do. I believe the best marketing is a combination of art and science. AI is a science. And then there's an art to be able to apply it. Similarly, I believe that the best marketing is a combination of left brain and right brain people. All of this, in my view, makes the marketing better. That said, we, the human species, make most of our decisions for emotional reasons and justify it with logic. It's what we humans do. So, We will buy a Mercedes Benz and we will say, well, the reason why we're buying that Mercedes Benz and, uh, Kaveen and Garrett is because it's safe and because it will hold its value. These are logical reasons. That is not why we bought the goddamn Mercedes Benz. Ed Collins: Okay. DC: That's bullshit. And so recognizing that let's go to this Coca Cola ad that that ad is about emotion. That's why it's launched during the holiday. And it comes out. Every year, every year, this year, what they decided to do is Garrett is pointing out is to redo it in AI. Here's the issue. The reason why that ad comes out every year is because it's nostalgic. It's nostalgic. So I believe the emotional connection for the consumer is that it hearkens the memories that people have with their families and friends during the holidays. It's a bit like watching the Miracle on 34th Street. All right. It's the same thing. Might be slightly colored better, but it's the same thing. What I believe was the error here by Coke is that they thought they could take the nostalgic memories and blended with modernity through AI and that would work. And I believe on that particular ad, just that one, a Garrett, that was dumb because I don't think they needed to touch it. Now, could they have done another holiday ad, a new holiday ad with AI? Absolutely. They could have done that, but to take, to take, I'm making this up, whether folks believe it or not, Santa Claus. It's a Sunbloom Santa, which Coca Cola commissioned to be done. We're redoing Sunbloom Santa in this AI format. What? What? Okay. So that's, that's my opinion. Ed Collins: So you guys have an insider's view on the Coca Cola brand. So you have legitimacy in your perspective, but as professional marketers, we know. You cannot judge an ad, the success of an ad, or take it beyond subjectivity, unless you know the objective of the ad. Yep. So I don't know the objective of that ad. But that being said, when we worked together on Globetrotters, DC: Yes. Ed Collins: My view on that was the Globetrotters were stuck in the mid 70s. They just never, I mean, there was a time warp and they, they just got stuck and they wanted to modernize the brand. So we were looking at all kinds of different strategies and tactics to do that. One of the things that we presented to them was the idea of NFTs. Yeah, that's right. Really hot at the time. Yes. The point there was an NFT, actually makes a statement about your your willingness and your desire to look forward and to innovate and to do new things to get out of the 70s and get to the at least the 2000s at least the 90s So so that mattered right so that was important to them as an objective to modernize the brand I give brands credit and this is something we talk to our clients about If you are a forward looking brand that is about innovation and about doing things in a better way. Actually using technology is a means to that end. It's a smart thing to do So I actually give credit to Coca Cola not knowing their objective you guys again You know that story much better than I but I give them credit for doing things in a different way Not in a harmful way. And by the way to me, there's a bit of consistency Back to your point lt about The realism of it, that was an animated app. It's animated. So the technology and how you animate to tell the story, I'm okay with doing different things. I mean, this isn't like Disney doing each cell, single cell by single cell. You animate, use technology to tell an animated story. So again, I think it depends on what are you trying to accomplish? It's definitely generating a lot of conversation. I'll park this, but I'd love to come back to it. It doesn't have to do with AI. Jaguar just came up with a new campaign that's eliciting all of this conversation. Yep. Yeah. I give them credit for doing it differently. It's not, it's not white noise out there among the thousands of ads we hear. Every single day or see every single day. DC: So, okay. And I got to hop in here. I'm sorry, brother. Yep. I agree with you. And then I totally disagree with you. So do I agree with the premise of giving companies credit for doing something new? Absolutely. But I, I do not give them credit for doing things that are dumb. And I think this was dumb. And let me give you an example outside of the consumer packets, good space. Let's go cars, Porsche 911. Maybe the single most iconic car brand ever created the 911 specifically. You could draw the shape of a nine 11 with a pencil or pen, or use it AI. And people will tell you they're not even car fans. That's a 911. You can't do that with any other car. That's just the 911. The 993 version of the nine 11 was the last air cooled engine. In the 911's lineage. So it was cooled by air, not by water. Most cars, at least combustion engine cars, ICE cars are done through water cooled, liquid cooled, not air. Porsche did an, uh, a Tycon. Uh, EV that's great. They should be modern, but had they taken a 993 air cooled Porsche and said, we're ripping out all the stuff in here and we're going to make it an Evie, that's dumb. That's dumb. Do a Ticon show us your new stuff. Don't go back and take the old nostalgic. A peak 911, that is an ice based car and turn that into an EV. That's all I'm saying. That's all I'm saying. Ed Collins: I'm done. Well, I think it raises a great point. This all takes discernment and it warrants conversation and it requires strategy and thinking about the, the output and the results, right? One thing that hasn't come up yet, which is important is voice cloning. LT: Yep. Ed Collins: Are you replacing people with this? And the answer to that is no, we're not. And this is unique to us. We are bringing actors into this process with us. When the SAG strike was on and I got a little bit of just a little bit of, Oh, you're putting, I heard this yesterday from some guy that has nothing to do with any of this. Like, Oh, you're putting people out of work. Like, no, we're not actually. We're inviting actors in and we have a licensing agreement with them. So we pay them, we pay them out of our revenue to use their voice. They have veto authority and authority to approve the use of their voice before it's used. So they have control over their IP. So that's the kind of thing that we're trying to do here is be smart. The integration, this absolutely it's, as you said, art and science. This is art and science It takes the art of the people on this camera and our team to be able to actually deliver these things to the quality level The infinitesimal quality level that we're seeking on behalf of our clients at the end of the day. The way I pitch this is, this is the technology version of you going into a recording booth with an actor as the writer or the producer. You know exactly how you want that script to come out and you give that direction. You can do that same thing with the tech and have that end result that you're seeking with the nuance that you need to have. LT: Wow. All right. I saw something yesterday guys about Chat GPT, their Sora product, right? And, uh, they're calling it Sora Turbo and brand nerds. For those of you who aren't aware of that, um, that what, uh, chat GPT says is that the Sora Turbo creates realistic video from text, right guys. Do I have that right? Garrett Cahill: Yes. LT: Yes. Yep. And so that they're putting that forth out there. What, what, what's your opinion of that? And where are you all as it relates to not just audio, but I would imagine, and I don't know, like, as it relates to what you're thinking about, uh, vis a vis video or, or something that one sees. Kaveen Jayamanna: Yeah. Um, so as an industry, I think the audio industry, the market is, uh, not that big compared to like digital ads and other types of modalities. So it's important for us to actually, um, move on to like other modalities of AI and SORA is definitely the platform we've been looking for. Um, so in the past, um, I think runaway ML was the best text to video, uh, out there. And then there were some competitors, but, um, In general, the challenge with the video was like getting the kind of like the realistic output and also getting exactly what you want. I haven't really tried Sora yet, but it looks very good compared to the alternatives we had. So maybe it's time for Firebay to actually extend our services to that area as well. LT: The next, the next horizon for you guys? Kaveen Jayamanna: Definitely. Ed Collins: We talked about it this morning. Garrett Cahill: Yeah. And to add to that, SORA is truly game changing, in the sense that you can build realistic ads with video in a few hours, rather than you having to send a group to go record a video. Whatever you need to record. Another thing too, is it expands the ads that you can create. Now you can create ads in space that look real. You can create new worlds much easier. You don't need to bring in all of these different talents. You can now do it in house with a very small team where smaller ad agencies that just didn't have the kit technical capabilities to do those really creative ads. It now brings the power into those hands, and it's definitely something that we're starting to learn to build and testing out with a few clients. LT: Wow. Ed Collins: I think this is like, I think this is like, um, this is if you compare it to the NFL, where back in the day, you know, the Green Bay Packers had no shot, small market team, and they couldn't compete against the Giants or the Rams or big market team. Yeah. And there was a desire to get more Equal opportunity across the board right these kinds of things think in terms of This is a conversation we're having this morning. If you're a, an automotive dealer and you don't have the budget to go out and shoot these really robust TV commercials or video ads and a strong social media campaign, these tools actually start to weaponize you to a certain degree. It gives you the ability through some level of artificial intelligence to create assets. To make you more competitive, put your message out there. You might be the greatest customer service dealership on planet earth, but you don't have the resources to build the ads to tell everybody that now you start to have those kinds of things. So imagine now through prompting, if you could. I don't even know if you can do this yet, but I know we can get certain video out of this. We think you can upload, we think you can upload, um, uh, foot, uh, uh, photography. So if you had a photo of a dealership, if I might get, um, OEM footage from the, from the factory and integrate that and I properly prompt it, I can have a commercial that's ready to put in front of my customers. That makes me much more competitive and it strengthens my business. So, well, I think are important. LT: And I think where you're going is what this enables you, it levels the playing field. So if you're a brilliant, creative. But you are, you know, a young person with not much resources and you're just starting an agency, let's say, right, and you don't need that much in production because if you have a great idea, you're, these tools can provide you, uh, and take you a long way, whereas before you would have needed some, uh, some investment from some folks to get you started and, uh, this you need much less. It sounds like, do I have that right guys? Ed Collins: Yeah, listen, one thing last thing I'll let you roll. I mean, I, I think it's important to recognize with AI. You don't just put an order form in and get the result out. It doesn't work that way. You need to be able, you need creativity. You need to have some vision. You need to be able to, you know, we're doing things. You know, we're editing and we're revising or modifying. We're doing it again. It takes this combination of human and tech. I don't think that's going to change. I don't think you're going to, at least in the near future, you're going to get exactly what you're seeking. So yeah, where did the creative minds go? Some of those creative minds are going to go into this technology to actually prompt the platforms and the tools to get what you want out of it, to tell a story. Because this is where it's lacking. You can go on a Chat GPT. I do this in my classes. Create a 30 second BMW ad. It's as generic and vanilla as it can be. Right. So you still need the human to be able to help tell the story and to guide the technology, to get out what you're seeking. So you're building a brand. Garrett Cahill: Yeah. To add to Ed's point, the way to make AI ads work is human plus technology. A great analogy is with Garry Kasparov versus Deep Blue. Deep Blue was really kind of the first supercomputer. That could beat a grandmaster at chess. And what we ended up seeing is the best chess player was not just deep blue, was not just Gary Kasparov, but when Gary Kasparov used deep blue, it could be any opponent. And that's the same thing with AI ads. You bring a human element to all of these ads. That's where you can get the high quality that you can't get with doing it either manually, free AI, or just using AI itself. So you use a human to get the idea, to execute, to do the editing, and then you have AI to help automate some of those workflows. DC: Alright guys, this has been fantastic. I'm going to pause at a final question before we get out of here. But I want to read a few names and you all tell me what they have in common. Uh, Winston Churchill, Martin Luther King, Abraham Lincoln, Nelson Mandela, Sojourner Truth, and Cicero. What, what, what do all of those folks have in common? Kaveen Jayamanna: Sorry, go ahead. Ed Collins: I was going to say two things that come to me is, is leadership in most cases, a couple of those names I'm not familiar with, but, but yeah, leadership and great communication is the way I would answer that. DC: Okay, let's go there. You got it, Ed. Great communication. These are iconic orators. Very few better than these people at orating and this allowed them to lead. So in modern times, so last several hundred years, we have, as a society, been led by great orators, people that can communicate. I believe now we're in a shift. In relationships. Particularly intimate relationships. I used to think, when, if someone asked me, this is when I was doing therapy, what, what's the, what's the most important thing in a, in a relationship? I would say, Ed and uh, Garrett and, and rest of the fam here, I would say, oh, it's communication. Yeah, Kaveena, it's gotta be communication. That's it. If you don't communicate enough, and it's therapist talking, no, no, it's understanding. Understanding is the number one thing. Because if you don't understand your significant other, it doesn't matter what you say, you got to understand first. And how do we understand? By asking questions. So the flip to me is, before the last couple of years, oration was the lead deal. Now I believe it's questions which leads me to prompts. Asking the right questions of AI in order to get back a better understanding to apply to a creative. So my question to you gentlemen is how do you go about asking the right questions in order to get out of the questions, a better understanding that allows you to then use your creativity to create the marketing materials. Kaveen Jayamanna: Yeah, I can. I think I can take it. So, uh, the skill you described is actually critical thinking. Um, so it's, it's almost about how, how you reason with, uh, the AI, like you keep asking why something is the way it is. Um, and then the, the, the AI would be very good at asking how, um, describing how, um, so for example, how do I, um, Uh, make this logo better or something, or how do I remove, uh, bias from this logo that we're creating? Um, it can give you those solutions, but, uh, asking that right question, it depends on how good you are at, uh, asking the why questions, because why questions are usually really hard, but if you can answer those questions, it's a lot easier. Then, uh, the how is almost very easy. And then also like, DC: give the Brand Nerds an example of a great why question. Give them one. Kaveen Jayamanna: Yeah. Um, so for example, I'm trying to think about like a good, uh, brand example. Um, okay. So for example, let's say. Um, you type in the prompt, uh, give me five ideas how to, uh, build the Coca Cola ad for, uh, Christmas. And then the AI would say something along the lines of, oh, add the Santa, um, and or maybe like, I don't remember the exact year, but the year you guys were talking about, 19, let's say 19, uh, in 90s. That day, uh, Coca-Cola had like a really good ad. Maybe you can, uh, um, renovate that ad with ai. Or I could say, uh, right now people are really into, um, rap music, so maybe an ad with rap music. So it, it is, it is going to give you some suggestions. Then you need to use your critical thinking to evaluate what that, uh, what the, why, uh, those answers make sense. So for example, you can ask, uh, why would I do the nineties ad? And then the a, the AI would say, well, it, it was popular back then. And then, uh, if you recreate this AI today, it's going to, uh, probably generate a, let's say like a inferior ad, but that would maybe, uh, create some, uh, negative, uh, engagement, which is still good. And then as, as an advertiser, you have to think, okay, negative engagement. What am I trying to really accomplish? Is it, uh, is it the engagement or am I trying to promote the brand? Whatever that is. And then you can again, ask, like, why do you think, um, why do you think like negative engagement is good? And then it'll give you the reasons. So you can keep asking why questions like that. And then that way you can deep dive into the root cause of like. Why it's reasoning that way so you just keep have to like wrestle with the ideas with AI and that way like you can better utilize it if that makes sense. DC: It does Point Garrett Cahill: A great way to utilize a guy to achieve the goals that you want is to use it As a sounding board pretend it's a friend that you have questions. Yeah So you ask a simple question of how can I build a killer Coca Cola ad it'll give you some ideas And then you can just keep following that chain of thought asking me why how do I do it? Even so much so you can almost turn it on itself. You can say I don't know how to get started with creating a Coca Cola ad What are some ideas in order to do one that can get me x objective? You And it will start creating ideas for you. And so it can really be this jet fuel to all of the ideas that you have. But the best analogy to really think about AI and to get the output that you want is it's very similar to professional athletes. Professional athletes spend years and years mastering their craft to make a basketball shot. Not to say we can't make a free throw, but they're just going to do it way better than us. That's the same thing with AI. If you're not an expert in knowing how to prompt it correctly to get the output that you're desirous of, it's going to take you tons and tons of time. So you have to make sure you're comfortable with it. You become an expert with it or outsource it to a team like us where we have the capabilities to do it, but that's how you really need to master AI in order to get exactly what you're talking about, DC. Ed Collins: DC, I think it goes back to what you're saying too, though. It depends on what you're trying to get out of this. If you're just trying to go, uh, give me the answer, that's one thing. So what are the reasons people buy a Mercedes Benz? Well, it's the number one safety vehicle, blah, blah, blah. But you're talking about more emotional components. So you might go in and say, what are the emotional reasons that a person is willing to spend 40 percent more for Mercedes Benz than some of its competition. And it may say, because they feel proud when they own the car, or it may give you some of those kinds of responses that stimulates thinking about the story you want to tell. It doesn't just say it's got airbags, but it says people have a sense of pride. Now pride becomes The core of a message that I want to write. Yeah. Right. So again, it depends on, on how you put that input into the, into the prompt. DC: Great. Hey larry, I got one thing I want to say. And then can you bring us home brother? LT: Yes. Yes. DC: Yes. So brand nerds, what these gentlemen have just shared with you, I think is a roadmap on how to elevate your question game. LT: Yep. DC: How to elevate your question game. So I'm going to give you an example. Of your very point, Kaveen, about asking the why's question one in the area of personal wipes, why would the world need another personal wipe? That's question one. Okay. Then you would go, it would sit, it would send back an answer where the road doesn't really need a personal wife. But if you had a segment, maybe. You could concentrate on that. Second question, Why would I want to focus on a particular segment of the population? And the answer might come back, Because, very few of any, right now, any companies that runs right now, Are talking to the set, This particular segment, about personal wipes. Then you go, okay, this is not a third white question is why would a segment where maybe there's latent demand? Maybe there's latent demand because they haven't been spoken to. Why would they be interested in a personal wipe? And then the answer may come back because. It would be a space that would be competitively clear for you to make a direct appeal to this particular segment about personal wipes. Now the creativity comes in when somebody reads all those wise answers is they go Dude Wipes. That's it. I need to do Dude Wipes because they are a latent segment. No, one's talking to them about these personal wives. They've got a demand for it and it's competitively open. These are the kind of questions, Brand Nerds, I employ you to figure out how to ask because it will instantly raise your level of understanding and separate you from all of your peers LT: and help you understand how to best optimize AI for yourself. Yes, the more you interact the more that you play Brand Nerds the more that you Really, you know sink your teeth into this the better. Um, guys, this has been fabulous before we sign up here I want to want to say to the Brand Nerds that uh, you can find out a lot more About Firebay studios by going to their website. It's Firebaystudios. com. That's FIREBAYSTUDIOS. com. We'll have it in the show notes too as well But we encourage you to check them out because They're really on to some incredible things as you think about utilizing AI tools, especially as it pertains to audio. And as they said, add more. So keep posted on that. Keep abreast with what they're doing. So, uh, this has been amazing, everyone. Thank you so much for joining us. Uh, we really appreciate you listening to Brands Beats and Bytes the executive producers are Jeff Shirley, Darryl "DC" Cobbin, Larry Taman and Hailey Cobbin, Jade Tate, and Tom DiOro. DC: The Podfather. LT: That is he. And if you do like this podcast, please subscribe and share. And for those on Apple Podcasts, if you are so inclined, we love those excellent reviews. We hope you enjoyed this podcast and we look forward to next time where we will have more insightful and enlightening talk about markets.