Latest / The Bubble Lounge (Highland Park & University Park Texas) / Breaking Down the DART Vote in the Park Cities with Alex Bell Part I

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Breaking Down the DART Vote in the Park Cities with Alex Bell Part I · The Bubble Lounge (Highland Park & University Park Texas)

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: This episode brought to you by Kathy Mwall State Farm Insurance Agent.
• 0:04
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• 0:07
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• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Bubble Lounge.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Martha Jackson, and today we are talking about the Dart vote that is coming up on May 2nd in the park cities.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll be honest, this is one of those topics I think a lot of us feel like we kind of understand, but maybe we don't fully understand.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: I know I didn't at first.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's easy to think it's just a bus route, but as I started looking into it, there's a whole lot more going on.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: This also comes down to tax dollars, what our cities are paying into Dart, and what we're getting back and what could change depending on how the vote goes.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I invited Alex Bell, who really understands the University Park side, to come in and help walk us through it.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: The main goal of this podcast is just to help you understand things better before you go and vote on May 2nd.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: Alex, welcome to the show.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: Good morning.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me in.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we're here to talk about the upcoming Dart Vote, but first let's talk about you.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: Can you tell us a little bit about yourself?
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, I've I moved back to University Park in 2014 uh with my wife, uh, bought a house and started our family.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I've been involved uh with city committees and government ever since.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm excited because I'm about to go on to the city council on May 2nd of this year.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so I've been getting up to speed on everything going on with Dart.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: And you played a big part in the centennial celebration.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: You've been the citizen of the year year before last.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: So quite involved in the community.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's true, yes.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so thankfully, I know a lot of the people I'm about to be working with uh more intensely, we'll say.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: Wonderful.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you for all you do for our community.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so on to Dart.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: Give us a little bit of background of how the park cities got involved with Dart.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I was I was not born when I University Park.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, when University Park got into Dart.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: But I've I've been told the story.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: So uh, you know, as Dallas was growing, there was a recognition that we needed a transportation solution or that that would be a good idea.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh Walt Human, who I know a little bit, I know his son a little better, uh, was very involved in trying to get Dart going and played a big part in getting University Park to be involved.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, but since Dart was formed in 1983, there have been no additional member cities.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: So nobody has joined Dart since it started.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: And there have been two other cities that previously left.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: So the city of Capel and the town of Flower Mount both left in 1989.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: And ever since then, it's just been the same, you know, kind of handful of cities that supported Dart.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, the the opportunity to leave if there's an issue with Dart only comes up every six years.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so the timing of the election is a function of that.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: So if you want to leave, you have to do it in a in a particular at a particular time.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, over the years, Dart started in University Park with, I believe, nine different routes going through the city.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: And in fact, I remember there was a route that went down Baltimore uh past my parents' house, and I rode the Dart bus to the L to the middle school.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for at least a year until I think they canceled that route.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: But we've gone from nine routes down to one.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: To just one, okay.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: So the only route that runs through University Park right now is the Preston route.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so the couple of stops on Preston are are all we get for our value.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so all of this fits into kind of a bigger picture of uh, you know, city funding and how things, how things are paid for around here, right?
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: So property tax is obviously a big component of how the city is allowed to raise money.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: Sales tax is one of the other biggest.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so sales tax, you know, the state gets six six and uh one quarter cents, and then cities can have up to two on top of that, right?
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: So that's how we get to our 8.25% sales tax.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: And the city right now gets to keep one of those pennies, the other penny goes to Dart.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what all of the member cities agreed to do when Dart was founded.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, now a lot of the other cities that do not belong to Dart are able to have but two pennies for their for their fund.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason that's relevant now is because in 2019, uh the legislature restricted the amount we're allowed to let property taxes or the budget rise every year to 3.5%.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so you know, we've had incredible inflation recently, construction costs have gone up.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's really without having a tax election, it's become very difficult to make sure that we have the best fire, police, safety, city employees, to have all of the level of services that everybody expects from us.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, part of part of the thinking on Dart is if we're not getting the value back that we expect, um, you know, the one route instead of nine, uh Dart does not appear to have any plans to change any of that.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, then we really need to look at what our options are as far as trying to recover that revenue for ourselves so that you know our citizens, we're not asking for tax elections, we're not having to drastically change things.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that's kind of the the the kind of big overall picture of what's going on with Dart.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, why did we go from nine routes to one?
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: Dart has complete operational control over what uh you know the routes and systems they run.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: As Dart, as the area has continued to grow, they've there just isn't the demand for the routes in our area, unfortunately.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh part of that could be because of of rail routes that get people to the adjacent areas that they may have come into our city and gone to before.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: But they're uh they're focusing on other areas.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh there's another thing about their long-term plans that make this kind of critical.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: So uh one of the consequences of leaving is that we're still responsible for paying back our kind of like percentage portion of Dart's debt obligations.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: What we what we all what we um agreed to many years ago.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: So every every member city of Dart agreed to uh put their that basically their credit on the line so that Dart had the ability to borrow money, to buy buses and trains and the other things they need to operate.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so when when a member city leaves, we are obligated to pay that back.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: Now, we don't have to pay it back all at once.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it would continue to come out of the the 1% sales tax that Dart continues to get.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: There's a there's a possibility that we could borrow to pay that off.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: We're looking into that.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, as we understand it right now, we would be basically what would happen is that sales tax would continue to run to Dart until that money was paid back.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think it's real easy.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: And and that was my first response is well, I don't know anybody that takes the Dart.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't affect me.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's really easy to think that way.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: But do we have any stats on in fact how many people do use it in the park cities?
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: Dart has provided some statistics on ridership, but it's hard to tell how accurate they are because they change signific they've changed significantly in the last two or three years in a downward direction.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: And they do not track, they're they don't track people end to end.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: So they track uh the start of a trip, but they don't necessarily track the end.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's hard to tell exactly where people are getting off.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: We've got some estimates, but you know, most of most of what we understand of people coming in here for, they're getting off at Hom Park Village, they're getting off at Preston Center for the most part.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: There are there are other people who get off in the interior of the city, but the the the daily usage we think is somewhere between 30 and 40 people.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so you know, there are there are solutions that can be had to get people from the kind of periphery of the city where Dart would still operate, right?
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because the Preston's the what is that, the west side of Preston Center is still city of Dallas.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, the bus will still continue to run through, it just won't stop in University Park.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, and so so if if they can get into Preston Center or they can get off at the edge of Highland Park and come back in, um you know, it's really it's kind of like a last mile solution from that point that we would we would have to figure out.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so there is a key part of the system that's important and that a number of people come out to advocate for, which is paratransit.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so paratransit is for uh you know people with uh disabilities or other issues that limit their mobility or uh their ability to kind of like drive a car, do things like that.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so in our community, we we're not allowed to have the identifying information of who those families are.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's confidential.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: But uh we do know that there are nine families that have like a subscription level paratransit service with Dart, and there are other people who just utilize it kind of on an as-needed basis.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so the the city is committed to making sure that that service continues in some form.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh as recently as the city council meeting on Tuesday, uh, they're negotiating a contract with a vendor to make sure that that service would be uninterrupted if we do withdraw from Dart.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, good.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: And there's even a potential that it it we are hopeful that it could be a better service.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: There are lots of complaints about wait times and other things.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen that, yes.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and uh, you know, they don't they would like to get the same driver every time, but they get a lot of different people.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes Dart subcontracts those.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and so, you know, the the solution that the city is looking at right now should provide a a higher level of service.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's a provider that serves, I think, Arlington and at least one other city in our area.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so they're they're reputable, they're tested, um, and they've got what I what looks like to me a good plan to try to take over that service if this is the way we decide to go.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, that's good to know.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: Well, but just in general, um what would happen if we were to vote to not have Dart anymore?
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: Has there been any backup plans discussed or put into place?
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so the the the contract negotiation with the provider for paratransit is is the plan.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so they have also quoted those final decisions have been made, but they have also quoted uh what it would cost for them to provide uh subsidized Uber kind of like uh darts go link service, but better.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh the city council hasn't made a decision about whether to provide like that level of service in addition to the paratransit, but this provider could very easily fill that gap as well.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what about passengers that are not paratransit?
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's so two only two of the buses that this company would provide would be like wheelchair lift buses.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: The rest would be like regular, okay, um, kind of like the dark go link buses.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you've ever seen those around the neighborhood, but uh they're kind of like smaller scale buses that they'd still be very nice.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna be branded with City of University Park wraps and things like that.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so there's there's a potential that that service could get added on.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: The city council's still looking at that.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like most people don't know that that's even being discussed because I haven't seen any any talk of that.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's it's it's evolving very quickly.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: So the the city council, so two city council meetings ago is when the uh the provider they're looking at right now is called VIA.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so their their representative gave a very nice presentation about you know two weeks prior to Tuesday, and then he was back uh after they had submitted kind of a formal proposed contract.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so where it stands now is um the the city council has asked for some clarifications or modifications of the contract, and the hope is that they'll have that approved and ready to go at the next city council meeting.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's good to know.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: Alex, let's revisit the part where you said that if we vote no to it, we still owe an exorbitant amount of money.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: And walk us through what that would look like and how long it might take to pay that off.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so the the Dart has provided an estimate.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: There are a number of cities that were looking to that have looked at potentially having elections to leave Dart.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so for each of those cities, DART did a calculation of what Dart believes is their debt obligation.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: The number that we got is approximately$90 million.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: And while that's quite a bit, the the sales tax right now is th that 1% is throwing off between seven and eight million dollars a year.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so 10 to 12 years is is how long it would take for that dedicated sales tax to finish paying off that debt.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, and we would be getting nothing in return for that.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh there's mul they're pursuing multiple avenues in regards to that number.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: One is there is some thought that that number is not correct, it's a little high.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so um there are some measures being taken to kind of look into what's behind that number and see if that's accurate.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: So there's some hope that that number might come down.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: And then second of all, um, you know, we owe that money whether we're in Dart or not.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: That money will have to be paid back someday, sometime.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, whether it's we just let it run out, run its course with the sales tax, or whether whether we borrow and pay debt service, and then because we could pay the debt service out of the 1% sales tax if we were able to pay that off.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: So we could use that money for other things and service that debt at the same time.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: There's some interest cost obviously involved in doing that, but it would it would free up some flexibility in the budget if we had access to that 1% sales tax money.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then if we were to pursue one of these backup plans that we talked about, that would be in addition to paying off our debt, right?
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so the the funding has to be located to pay for the paratransit and for the other transportation costs.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, Alex, I just keep thinking about all the people that are about to enter our part of the woods this summer with uh the World Cup coming up.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I've been thinking about it a lot.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm getting a lot of anxiety just thinking about all the traffic and everything.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: The vote is on May 2nd.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: What happens if we vote no?
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: Does it end immediately?
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we have been told that Dart will immediately suspend service if there is a no vote.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: Now, there's a question about the timing there because the the general election results are gonna be known, you know, Saturday night, right?
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like they'll they they count those votes immediately.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: They don't make us wait.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: But uh the the vote is not certified until I think it's May 13th.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think is like the official certification date.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: So there's there's a little bit of question about what's gonna happen in the 10 days between, you know, the end the known result of the voting and uh when it's certified.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: But that's why the city is working to try to have the the solution with a contractor in place so that if that is what happens, that Paratransit, for example, won't suffer a lapse in service.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I've also heard a little bit of talk of a rebate situation.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: I don't fully understand it.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: Can you talk to us about that?
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: So uh this is not the first time that that the city of University Park has looked looked at its relationship with DART.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: So back in 2016, uh when Olin Lane was mayor, uh there was a program that they came up with to get uh rebates from DART.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, if we're only getting, you know, a one-third or 20% return on our tax money, maybe some of that should come back.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so Dart, Dart agreed to a program that that we went on for about a decade, uh, where every year we got a portion of our sales tax money back.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: And we use that for various city improvement projects.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we've done work on Miracle Mile and uh uh Snyder Plaza, things like that.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: And that money helped pay for all those projects.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: Now there's there's there's two catches on that.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: One is if we withdraw from Dart, that's part of the money we owe back.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: So it wasn't truly a rebate in the sense of they were giving us our money back, they were giving us a loan.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so the second is you know, when that agreement expired in September of last year, there was a thought that uh the city was and Dart would get together and renegotiate and keep that program going.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um that didn't happen.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh as my understanding of of how that happened is that because of the number of member cities that were looking at having withdrawal elections at the same time, uh, you may have seen in the news that Dart did make rebate deals with some other cities.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so I I think the thought was that they couldn't afford to do a rebate deal with us after they had done those.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: So that that opportunity did not exist for us this time.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay, got it.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I feel like we've talked a lot about if we vote no, but what would happen if we actually vote yes to keep it?
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: So if if there's a yes vote, uh nothing would change.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: The only thing that would change would change as we went forward is the number it would take to withdraw later.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so as as I understand Dart's, you know, plans for purchases and spending in the future, they're looking at replacing all their entire fleet of buses and rail cars at a huge expense.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um the the numbers I've seen is more than a billion dollars.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: And and we would be on the hook for our portion of that if we stay.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: So that if we ever did decide, no, we need that sales tax money or this just isn't working the way we want to in the future, the price tag to leave would be much, much larger than it is today.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Alex, this has been very fascinated.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: I've learned so much from listening to you, and I know that everyone out there is gonna learn a lot from it as well.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I will include links to both Highland Park and University Park because they both have a lot of information so you can get up to speed on the vote.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's and that's all we're trying to do is make sure people have the facts when they go make the decision about uh what's right for the cities and the town of Highland Park going forward.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you so much for joining us today.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: You're welcome.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for having me.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's been another episode of the Bubble Lounge.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Martha Jackson, and I'll see you next time.