Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #342 Getting Caught Up in the Thick of Thin

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#342 Getting Caught Up in the Thick of Thin · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

0:03
Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the
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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.
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Speaker 2: Now, this requires a systematic change as opposed to blaming
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Speaker 2: a screen.
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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, My Mum
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Speaker 1: and Dad.
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Speaker 3: Well, lockdowns continue around about sixty percent of Australia's population,
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Speaker 3: with New South Wales the act and Victoria's still lockdown
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Speaker 3: New Zealand as well. You know this docks Justin Coulson,
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Speaker 3: the author of six books about how to make your
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Speaker 3: family happier and the Mum to Six Children. Actually, sorry,
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Speaker 3: I'm not the mum. I'm looking at you. I'm looking
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Speaker 3: at the mum to our six children. Kylie is my
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Speaker 3: wife and co host who joins me for the conversation today. Sorry,
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Speaker 3: I just sort of drifted off looking at you. I
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Speaker 3: love what you're wearing today and I was just I
0:51
Speaker 3: was right there with you thinking about how great you looked,
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Speaker 3: and called me the mum to our six children. Hey, Kylie,
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Speaker 3: a new study has come out that I've just got
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Speaker 3: to talk about it. I know it's not the doctor's
1:00
Speaker 3: desk today, but an Australian bad study nearly six hundred
1:04
Speaker 3: thousand kids forty two nations published in The Lancet reveals
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Speaker 3: that boys are spending an average of more than six
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Speaker 3: hours per day of recreational screen time.
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Speaker 2: Is this in response to lockdown?
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Speaker 3: Yes? Yes, and girls are spending more than five hours
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Speaker 3: a day using screens for recreation. So we're talking about
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Speaker 3: fairly passive kind of consumption screen us. And the research
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Speaker 3: shows us that just two hours of screen time per
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Speaker 3: day is enough to cause cognitive decline, that his brain
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Speaker 3: cells start to atrophy, and ill health, physical illness, depression,
1:34
Speaker 3: those kinds of issues. Kind of a horrible story. This
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Speaker 3: comes out of the University of Queensland. A bit of
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Speaker 3: a wake up call for everyone who says that sitting
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Speaker 3: in front of your screen is going to be okay,
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Speaker 3: it's going to be fine. The research is kind of stressful,
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Speaker 3: isn't it.
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Speaker 2: It is a little bit, but I'm probably not going
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Speaker 2: to be too popular with my response to it. Yeah,
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Speaker 2: I don't see how this is helpful right now. No,
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Speaker 2: there's no solutions to it because half the country is
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Speaker 2: in lockdown at the moment. They're not giving us any
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Speaker 2: options to help families right now, and so bringing out
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Speaker 2: a study like this just hurts. It doesn't actually, it
2:09
Speaker 2: doesn't actually create change. It just leaves parents feeling completely
2:13
Speaker 2: overwhelmed as to know how to do anything different.
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Speaker 3: Well, I want to counter that research because my position
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Speaker 3: on this has been shifting, not just because of COVID,
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Speaker 3: but because of what the research is telling us generally,
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Speaker 3: and that is that I mean, look, if you're going
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Speaker 3: to spend six hours a day on a screen, then
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Speaker 3: it's going to be unhealthy for you, right because you're
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Speaker 3: not moving your body and you're not connecting with people.
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Speaker 3: You're not having face to FaceTime, you're not practicing the
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Speaker 3: piano or painting or doing something with your brain. Like,
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Speaker 3: you're just sitting on the couch doing nothing. But the
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Speaker 3: screen has nothing to do with it. If you sat
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Speaker 3: on the couch and did nothing for six hours a day,
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Speaker 3: you'd be unhealthy. It would be associated with depression, it
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Speaker 3: would be associated with ill health, it would be associated
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Speaker 3: with cognitive decline. The screen is what draws people to
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Speaker 3: sit on the couch for six hours and do nothing,
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Speaker 3: But the screen itself isn't causing it. It's sitting on
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Speaker 3: the catch much and doing nothing for six hours. It's
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Speaker 3: a problem. Andy Shibulski, he's an Oxford researcher. I think
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Speaker 3: the guy is great, and he published a piece of
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Speaker 3: The New York Times recently. He said, the evidence linking
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Speaker 3: screens to harm is in reality, and I quote here
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Speaker 3: the two words paper thin, he said. A review published
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Speaker 3: in January by Candas Odges and Michelan Jensen concluded that
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Speaker 3: the most recent, rigorous, large scale studies report only small
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Speaker 3: associations between the amount of daily digital technology use and
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Speaker 3: adolescents well being. These associations do not offer a way
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Speaker 3: of distinguishing cause from effect, and, as estimated, are unlikely
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Speaker 3: to be of clinical or practical significance. And yet I
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Speaker 3: hear parents daily, literally emailing me every single day time
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Speaker 3: themselves in not stressing about how much screen time their
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Speaker 3: kids are getting. And it's just not it's not helpful,
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Speaker 3: Like you said, Klyde, it creates so much stress for parents. Yeah.
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Speaker 2: I'm not suggesting for a second that we don't monitor
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Speaker 2: and we don't set parameters around our children's screen use.
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Speaker 2: But if our whole focus is, oh my gosh, they've
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Speaker 2: watched two hours TV today when there are so many
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Speaker 2: other bigger issues to deal with, we're not helping anyone.
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Speaker 2: We're actually just causing more conflict in our homes, which
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Speaker 2: is no one to have similar impacts.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I was thinking about some of the stuff just
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Speaker 3: as you were saying that that parents stress about that
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Speaker 3: they probably don't need to now. Now, all of these
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Speaker 3: things are important and of themselves, but I don't think
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Speaker 3: that they're worth the stress that we put on them.
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Speaker 3: Like if we took the stress off, I don't think
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Speaker 3: that the world would end and the kids would actually
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Speaker 3: make safe, healthy, wise decisions. Anyway.
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Speaker 2: I remember one of our children, literally for about a year,
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Speaker 2: would only eat toast with edgibite. Yeah, that was pretty
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Speaker 2: much her diet.
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Speaker 3: And we fixed for dinner.
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Speaker 2: Yes, And the amount of emotional turmoil I put myself
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Speaker 2: through as a parent because I couldn't get her to
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Speaker 2: eat anything else.
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Speaker 3: And do you remember what I used to say to
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Speaker 3: you at dinner time when she wouldn't eat the dinner
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Speaker 3: that you'd so painstakingly and carefully and beautifully cooked. Remember,
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Speaker 3: I just say, give a week, PIX. She'll grow out
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Speaker 3: of it. She'll be fine. We don't need to worry
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Speaker 3: about it.
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Speaker 2: She has a more diverse palette than I do as
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Speaker 2: an adult anything.
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Speaker 3: Now, it's amazing, And I think like so we stress
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Speaker 3: about screens. I don't think we need to. We stress
5:13
Speaker 3: about food. I don't think we need to. We stress
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Speaker 3: about how much our kids are exercising. I don't think
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Speaker 3: we need to. We stress about how many extracurricular activities
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Speaker 3: they're doing, or whether they're doing the right ones. And
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Speaker 3: should we put them into piano or should we put
5:25
Speaker 3: them into violin, or should we put them into clarinet,
5:27
Speaker 3: or should they be in band or learn guitar. I
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Speaker 3: don't think it matters, like, just let them pick. We
5:33
Speaker 3: worry about lockdown and screens. We worry about whether they're
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Speaker 3: matching clothes, Like have you ever looked at the kids
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Speaker 3: and said, you're not wearing that? Are you?
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Speaker 2: Or I can't believe you walked out of the house
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Speaker 2: and you didn't brush your hair.
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Speaker 3: We worry about all this. We worry about whether or
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Speaker 3: not they're going to pick up their mess. Like our
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Speaker 3: most unclean child is now out of the house and married,
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Speaker 3: and her place is spotless.
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Speaker 2: She's a clean spotless when she knows mom and dad.
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Speaker 3: Maybe she just does a really great tidy. Now the
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Speaker 3: place is like, we worry about this stuff, and I
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Speaker 3: think that we're getting caught up in the thick of
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Speaker 3: thin things. And when it comes to screens, I don't
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Speaker 3: like it when I walk into the house and see
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Speaker 3: the kids on the screen, because I want them to
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Speaker 3: be doing, I want them to be living. I want
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Speaker 3: them to have a whole and balanced life. But before
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Speaker 3: we started to record, what was it that you said
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Speaker 3: about the kids and screen time?
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Speaker 2: You're going to put me on the spot.
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Speaker 3: Well, I think this just because it was set off air,
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Speaker 3: I think that you can say it on the podcast.
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Speaker 3: Let's hear it. Let's hear it.
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Speaker 2: I really don't have a problem if my kids need
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Speaker 2: to zone out for an hour or two of an
6:35
Speaker 2: afternoon because they've had a really big day. I think
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Speaker 2: about the immense stimulus and demand that has placed on
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Speaker 2: our children day in day out, and I'm talking, you know,
6:43
Speaker 2: our little preppies, our kindergarteners all the way up to
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Speaker 2: our high school students, and I know what it's like
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Speaker 2: after I've had a full on day and I just
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Speaker 2: need time out. And while there are plenty of other
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Speaker 2: things that could possibly do, I think if we're going
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Speaker 2: to attack screens and screens being the problem, then as
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Speaker 2: a community, we have to look at why our children
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Speaker 2: are drawn to screens because once upon a time, our
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Speaker 2: kids were drawn to going down to the local park
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Speaker 2: and playing with their friends, but they're not doing that anymore.
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Speaker 2: Why this requires a systematic change as opposed to blaming
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Speaker 2: a screen, Well, I don't.
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Speaker 3: Think that it requires a huge change. But right after
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Speaker 3: the break, we're going to talk about the stuff that
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Speaker 3: does matter, because I don't think that matching clothes and
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Speaker 3: a tidy room and kids watching some screens during the
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Speaker 3: afternoon are a problem so long as they're living a full, balanced,
7:29
Speaker 3: whole childhood. So we'll talk about what matters most right
7:32
Speaker 3: after break. It's the Happy Families Podcast.
7:36
Speaker 4: Imagine a home where discipline got results without anyone having
7:39
Speaker 4: to feel bad or in trouble. The Do's and don'ts
7:41
Speaker 4: of discipline as a webinar to help parents set limits
7:44
Speaker 4: with love, compassion and humanity. Find it now at happyfamilies
7:48
Speaker 4: dot com, dot au slash shop.
7:51
Speaker 2: It's the Happy Families Podcast, the podcast for the time
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Speaker 2: poor parent who just wants answers now, and today we're
7:57
Speaker 2: kind of debunking a few of the the myths around
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Speaker 2: screen time.
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Speaker 3: Well, last week we talked about what goes on under
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Speaker 3: the hood in the Coulson family in terms of how
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Speaker 3: Kylie and I make our mornings work. Now we're sort
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Speaker 3: of saying we're actually pretty hands off with the way
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Speaker 3: the kids spend their time, and that includes screens. Now,
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Speaker 3: in fairness, we do actually take control of the remote
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Speaker 3: a fair bit because we've got a couple of kids
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Speaker 3: who literally would do nothing but watch The Telling if
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Speaker 3: they had full access to the remote. But we're also
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Speaker 3: pretty liberal with how much they do get to watch well.
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Speaker 2: And also over the weekend, we've had a family meeting
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Speaker 2: and we've actually discussed the fact that as a family,
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Speaker 2: we feel like we've been using screens too much lately
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Speaker 2: and so have reassessed how we will move forward with that.
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Speaker 2: But it's a collaborative effort as opposed to us as
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Speaker 2: the parents, dictating what should and shouldn't happen.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm smiling as you say that, because the one
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Speaker 3: person who has the biggest screen issue wasn't in the meeting.
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Speaker 2: Oh really, yeap, who was that?
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Speaker 3: You were there either? Well, the two people who have
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Speaker 3: the biggest screen issues in the meeting. It was you
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Speaker 3: and our baby girl, our seven year old who just
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Speaker 3: loves to watch it. But here's the thing when it
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Speaker 3: comes to screens. If the kids are being physically active,
9:06
Speaker 3: if the kids are spending time with others, and if
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Speaker 3: they're spending some focused time on those extracurricular activities that
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Speaker 3: they've chosen to do that matter to them and that
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Speaker 3: build them. I had a couple of days off last week.
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Speaker 3: I was just exhausted, and for the most part, I
9:22
Speaker 3: didn't really do anything productive. And sometimes it's just nice.
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Speaker 3: I mean, the kids live full lives, right, We've got
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Speaker 3: children who have a lot going on. Let's chill out
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Speaker 3: about it. The other thing that I wanted to highlight
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Speaker 3: was just the importance, like when you talk about getting
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Speaker 3: caught up in the thick of thin things. It's nice
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Speaker 3: to have a tidy house, but it doesn't have to
9:39
Speaker 3: be perfect all the time. And I don't know how
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Speaker 3: many Saturdays we've sacrificed over the last twenty something years
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Speaker 3: to the god of clean surfaces.
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Speaker 2: As a parent, my favorite memories and experiences that we've
9:52
Speaker 2: had with our kids is when we've literally just thrown
9:55
Speaker 2: the routine out the window and gone out for a
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Speaker 2: super Saturday, or when we live near the beach, we
10:01
Speaker 2: literally one morning a week sometimes two or three. Yes,
10:04
Speaker 2: we loved it so much. We just got the kids
10:06
Speaker 2: out of bed super early and we raced down to
10:08
Speaker 2: the beach and we had an early morning swim. The
10:10
Speaker 2: kids would go to school with dripping, wet, sandy air
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Speaker 2: because we'd experienced joy in the water together.
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Speaker 3: Just on that. You weren't in the meeting that we
10:19
Speaker 3: had yesterday for our family meeting, but I've filled you
10:21
Speaker 3: in on this. This coming Friday, the kids are going
10:23
Speaker 3: to be late to school because and for those of
10:26
Speaker 3: you who are in lockdown, we apologize. We're not rubbing
10:28
Speaker 3: it in, but we want to celebrate and live life
10:31
Speaker 3: as best we can. And I just said to the kids,
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Speaker 3: we're going to be late to school on Friday because
10:34
Speaker 3: we go to the beach. So we're going to head
10:36
Speaker 3: down the beach and have a swim and goof off
10:38
Speaker 3: in the water for I don't know, as long as
10:41
Speaker 3: it takes. We'll have some cheap, horrible, nasty takeaway breakfast
10:44
Speaker 3: somewhere terrible on the way home, and then drop the
10:47
Speaker 3: kids at school whatever time they get there. And I
10:49
Speaker 3: know some people are going to listen to that and
10:50
Speaker 3: say this is just irresponsible, this is inappropriate. Some people
10:55
Speaker 3: are going to come at us for saying this, But
10:57
Speaker 3: can we just take the pressure off a little bit?
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Speaker 3: Can we stop getting caught up in the thickerin things
11:00
Speaker 3: if the kids miss an hour of school on a
11:02
Speaker 3: Friday morning because they've had high quality time at the
11:04
Speaker 3: beach with their family, or riding a bike through the park,
11:07
Speaker 3: if you don't live near the beach, or if you're
11:08
Speaker 3: in a lockdown place and you're not allowed to do
11:10
Speaker 3: certain things. I just think we need to focus on
11:13
Speaker 3: the stuff that matters most. And how much screen time
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Speaker 3: the kids are getting it doesn't matter nearly as much
11:17
Speaker 3: as how much time they're getting with you. It doesn't
11:20
Speaker 3: matter nearly as much as how you're doing. And I
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Speaker 3: think there's also this other thing, Kylie. I know that
11:25
Speaker 3: every now and again I storm into that TV room
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Speaker 3: and I say, what's going on in here? Turn that
11:29
Speaker 3: thing off? And I get really cranky about it. But
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Speaker 3: if I would just stop for a moment and ask
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Speaker 3: myself the question, what is this response going to do
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Speaker 3: to my relationship with this child? I reckon I'd probably
11:39
Speaker 3: respond to the screen issue differently. I reckon I'd probably
11:43
Speaker 3: go and pluck myself on the couch next to her
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Speaker 3: and give her a hug, and after I watched for
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Speaker 3: a couple of minutes, I might say, hey, how much
11:48
Speaker 3: long has this episode got to go? Let's turn it
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Speaker 3: off and spend some time together after, Like, how much
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Speaker 3: better is that than stressing out about screen time all
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Speaker 3: the time?
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Speaker 2: I think the reality is all of these things are
12:00
Speaker 2: good things. They're all important things, whether that you mean
12:04
Speaker 2: like screens or food or yeah, whether our children ex
12:07
Speaker 2: enough food or exercising or spending time with friends or
12:11
Speaker 2: you know, all of these things are good things. But
12:13
Speaker 2: I think we just need to put everything into perspective
12:16
Speaker 2: and if we can just take a step back and
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Speaker 2: acknowledge that, Okay, today's been a bad day. I'm not
12:21
Speaker 2: in the right headspace, and my kids have been in
12:23
Speaker 2: front of the TV and that's okay, because tomorrow it's
12:26
Speaker 2: going to be different, or next week or whatever. I
12:29
Speaker 2: just think, in light of what everyone is experiencing right now,
12:34
Speaker 2: I think it's really important that we just take a
12:35
Speaker 2: step back and be a little bit kind to ourselves.
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Speaker 3: So let's go back to this study just come out
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Speaker 3: of the University of Queensland and reflect on that for
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Speaker 3: a second. If kids are spending four or five hours
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Speaker 3: sitting on a couch every day, whether they're staring at
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Speaker 3: a screen or doing something else, it's not going to
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Speaker 3: be healthy for them. It's going to cause cognitive decline,
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Speaker 3: it's going to cause depression, or it's going to be
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Speaker 3: linked to these things at least may even lead to
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Speaker 3: physical problems. But we've got to stop blaming screens. I
13:04
Speaker 3: think we've actually got to look at ourselves and say,
13:06
Speaker 3: where's the stimulation for the kids? What are we doing
13:08
Speaker 3: to support them? What systemic things, what structural things can
13:12
Speaker 3: we do to help them to move their bodies, or
13:14
Speaker 3: to be engaged in life, or to have purpose or meaning,
13:17
Speaker 3: or have something to do other than sit on the
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Speaker 3: couch and do nothing except Sarah's screen.
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Speaker 2: It's interesting if I was to dissect a day of
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Speaker 2: screen usage in our house last weekend when we were
13:30
Speaker 2: in lockdown, I spent two hours in front of a screen.
13:35
Speaker 2: That entire time I was having zoom meetings and conversations
13:40
Speaker 2: with people in very isolated situations. That was such an
13:45
Speaker 2: enriching experience for me. I look at Emily, who loves
13:48
Speaker 2: doing yoga, and she's, you know, does a thirty minute
13:51
Speaker 2: class with yoga.
13:52
Speaker 3: Let's a seven year old for those of you who
13:54
Speaker 3: knew to the podcast.
13:55
Speaker 2: Calls out art Hub and she does drawing these things
14:00
Speaker 2: can enrich our lives. So I think putting a number
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Speaker 2: on it is not valuable. What is valuable is if
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Speaker 2: our kids are staring you normally at a screen for
14:11
Speaker 2: hours on end, that is definitely going to have an impact.
14:15
Speaker 2: But let's just yeah, let's just take a step back.
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Speaker 2: Let's look at that a lot more objectively.
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Speaker 3: Well, we hope we haven't confused you with this. It
14:21
Speaker 3: really is Justin and Kylie, and we really are saying
14:24
Speaker 3: some stuff matters and some stuff doesn't. And yes, screens matter. Yes,
14:28
Speaker 3: the food that your kids eat matters. Yes, whether they're
14:30
Speaker 3: exercising or doing the right thing, cleaning up their rooms,
14:33
Speaker 3: listening to parents, all that sort of stuff, Yeah, it
14:35
Speaker 3: all matters. But it doesn't matter as much as your
14:38
Speaker 3: response to what's going on and how that builds the relationship.
14:41
Speaker 3: And so long as the kids are living full, balanced lives,
14:43
Speaker 3: they're probably going to be Okay. I mean, I was
14:45
Speaker 3: a television addict when I was a kid. If you
14:47
Speaker 3: read my mum's journal that she kept on my behalf
14:50
Speaker 3: for the first probably twelve years of my life. All
14:52
Speaker 3: that she ever wrote was justin watches so much television.
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Speaker 3: And I don't know, I think I'm doing okay.
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Speaker 2: You turn out okay.
15:00
Speaker 3: You think I'm really scared to say I did that
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Speaker 3: as a kid and I turned out all right, because
15:04
Speaker 3: I usually argue pretty strongly against it. But let's just
15:07
Speaker 3: worry about the big stuff. And the big stuff is
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Speaker 3: do the kids know that they're loved? Are the kids
15:11
Speaker 3: having the opportunities to live in riching lives? If you
15:15
Speaker 3: can say yes to that, that ongoing, nurturing relationships and
15:18
Speaker 3: useful and healthy limits that they've worked out with you,
15:21
Speaker 3: they're going to be just fine. The Happy Families podcast
15:24
Speaker 3: is produced by Justin Ruland from Bridge Media, with Craig
15:26
Speaker 3: Bruce acting as our executive producer. If you'd like more
15:29
Speaker 3: info about how to make your family happy and how
15:31
Speaker 3: to not sweat the small stuff, please check out our
15:34
Speaker 3: Happy Families memberships. You can find premium content in that
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Speaker 3: membership that will guide your family. Because a happy family
15:41
Speaker 3: doesn't just happen, we would love to have you as
15:44
Speaker 3: part of the Happy Families family. For all the details,
15:46
Speaker 3: visit happy Families dot com, dot a