Latest / Divorce Dialogues / Ronald Platt on Why Post-Divorce Growth Requires the Discomfort You’re Avoiding
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- Ronald Platt (00:00): I got out of a 14-year toxic relationship and I remember my sister's words were, "Don't date anybody for five years." And I thought, "Are you kidding me? " And then of course I immediately met somebody and after about three months into the relationship, I thought, "This person is oddly familiar to me, even though they look different. I was dating my ex in a different body because I hadn't taken the time out to figure out what I had just left and is that what I want in a new relationship or do I want to take the time out and figure out how I want to be loved unconditionally? Katherine Miller (00:31): Welcome to Divorce Dialogues. I'm Katherine Miller. This is where we have honest, thoughtful conversations about divorce, the emotional, financial, legal, and family questions no one prepares you for. From deciding whether to separate to navigating the process with dignity to rebuilding what comes next, Divorce Dialogues is here to help you find clarity, perspective, and a better way forward. One of the things that I often tell people is that divorce is just not a single event. It's a transition. And while a great deal of attention gets focused on the legal process, the truth is that the final divorce agreement is often the very beginning of a completely different challenge because once the paperwork is signed, people still have to build and rebuild their lives. They have to figure out new routines, new relationships, new communities, new ways of parenting. And for many people, they have to do all of that while also grieving the loss of the life they thought they were going to have. (01:41): And that's one of the reasons I think that the period after divorce deserves much more attention than it often gets because people don't just need a legal outcome. They need connection, they need support, and they need a sense of belonging and a vision for what comes next. And so what this conversation is really about is what happens after the divorce is over and what helps people create a healthy, meaningful, and fulfilling life on the other side. My guest today, Ronald Platt, has spent years focused on exactly that challenge. As CEO of the National Association for Single and Divorced Families, Ronald advocates for the resources, support systems, and communities that help people move forward with confidence and connection. So today we're talking about what people need after divorce, why isolation can be one of the biggest risks and how families can create a healthy and fulfilling next chapter. (02:31): Welcome, Ronald. It's a real pleasure to have you on the show. Ronald Platt (02:34): I really appreciate you having me on today and this is a great topic that I'm looking forward to talking about. Katherine Miller (02:38): Yeah. So many people spend months, sometimes years, and in New York it can be quite a few years preparing for the legal side and being involved in the legal negotiation and the legal preparation. What do you think that they're maybe the least prepared for on the other side of divorce? I Ronald Platt (02:58): Think there's a few things. A, being a single parent, if you have a child, typically that responsibility was shared between the two of you and now you have to set up your own individual house. There's different schedules, there's pickup times, there's a lot more responsibility placed on the parents as individuals than they were when they were married, I think is one. And two, it's basically learning to live by yourself. You no longer have that partner in your life, which for many might be a good thing because they didn't get along with that partner and they were aching to get out of the relationship. But at the same time, once you are in it and you realize that this can be a very lonely scenario, how do you deal with that loneliness? How do you deal with reestablishing yourself in the community? What are some of the negative things that people are thinking about when you do get a divorce and how do you handle those or how do you counteract those? (03:46): So there's a lot of changes, a lot of unfamiliar territory that you might be going through and those challenges can be very hard. Katherine Miller (03:52): Yeah. So I think what you're talking about is there's a couple things like what does it mean to adapt to living alone? What is that going to mean? What is it going to take? What is it that we actually haven't thought through about not having two people to manage the kids or two people to manage the schedules, two people to manage the household? That's one thing, right? Ronald Platt (04:14): I think a lot of times we're focused on getting out of the divorce and then once we get out of it, it's like, okay, I didn't think of this part. Katherine Miller (04:20): I was going to add something else, Ronald, to that. And that is I think that negotiating the terms of the deal and signing the contract, that's one thing to think about it intellectually. And then actually living what that says is another thing. Who's going to pay for cleats? Who's going to drop off or pick up? Ronald Platt (04:40): Who goes in for the PTA meetings and when the teacher calls to speak to them, are you able to get together with your former partner to have those conversations together with the teacher? What are Katherine Miller (04:49): You going to do about snow days? At least in the Northeast, we have snow days. Ronald Platt (04:54): We have hurricane days here. Katherine Miller (04:57): And then there's this whole thing about the isolation that you're talking about and the loss of connection. So talk a little bit more about that. What actually happens there? Ronald Platt (05:07): I think it's a differing experience for both men and women. I think for men, we rely on our spouses, family members. If we don't have our own that we're close to, or if our family members don't live nearby, then we're going to rely on the other person's family that suddenly disappears. Those holiday dinners are different. Christmas is different. Now there's two households for the children to... Well, they'll think of it as something to enjoy because they get twice the gifts, but it's a different dynamic as far as what the family looks like. And then there's also how you set up your individual homes and how do you provide a safe haven for those children when they go from one parent's house to another? How do you give that stability? How do you coordinate those schedules? I talked to my son who divorced his partner about two years ago. (05:51): And when I get my granddaughter, I'm like, "Well, what time does she go to bed?" If I ask one person, it's, well, she's in bed by nine. If I ask the other party, she's in bed by seven. So my granddaughter doesn't know what time is her bedtime. She comes to our house, it's definitely at eight o'clock at the latest as she's in bed because they haven't gotten together and really agreed on what time should the child be in bed when they're at the individual houses. So I think there's a lot of unexpected coordinating that even though you sign those paperworks and you're now separated from that person, you're going to be involved with that person the rest of that child's life. So you might've signed the paperwork, but that other party's not going anywhere. If you want to raise a healthy child, you're going to have to develop a healthy relationship with your ex so that you can coordinate these events. (06:32): And it's not necessarily a bad thing when you finally do see each other at the sporting events or the PTA meetings or things of that nature, that you're getting along. You might not want to be together, but you're getting along on behalf of that child and learning that process can be very challenging on top of everything else that you're dealing with. Katherine Miller (06:47): And it's an interesting thing because when you're in the midst of the divorce negotiation, the idea of negotiating when bedtime is or negotiating how you're going to agree when bedtime is could feel really impossible. And yet it is really perhaps the most important thing. How are you going to coordinate and how much involvement are you going to have? Because one person sometimes feels like, "Well, you're not going to control me. I'm the on - duty parent. I'm going to do it my way and I'm not going to do it your way. Okay, great. Maybe we both do it your way." I mean, there's so many ways to handle that, right? Ronald Platt (07:23): There's also a lot of overcompensating. So if I can't give my child my time, I'm going to buy them a lot of things. So again, I use my son as an example. I go to one partner's house and my granddaughter's room is filled with toys and that usually represents to me that the father's not spending enough time with that child where you go to the other house and there's not a lot of toys, but the child's having great experiences. And then they come to our house and she has none of her toys, but she has a ton of great experiences and she doesn't miss any of it. So do you compensate with buying things versus the time element? And of course, children always want your time versus having something to play with. So being able to coordinate that with your partner is very important and sometimes that lacks. Katherine Miller (08:02): And so for the listeners who think, "Well, that's very nice. If you knew my partner, you'd never say that. " What do you say to that person who feels that they just cannot negotiate with this person, the other parent is not reasonable and willing to listen? What should that person do? Ronald Platt (08:19): That's an individual scenario I really don't have one answer for because every relationship is different. I suspect providing your child with the best lifestyle, with the best home life that you can, the stability, the scheduling, children thrive on schedules. So if they know when they come to your house that they're going to have a parent sitting at the table eating their meals with them or that they have a limited time on their iPads for whatever purpose or that they have to do their homework at a certain time and be in bed at a certain time gives that child a certain amount of comfort knowing that when they go to your house, these are the rules. When they go to the other parent's house, those are the rules. And sometimes they can get away with more from one parent than the other. And that's okay because as long as you've established the boundaries, that child will probably follow those boundaries once they're with you. Katherine Miller (09:06): That makes a lot of sense. So let's just go back into that. Just coming out of the divorce process, what in your experience are some of the biggest challenges that people face in that first year? Ronald Platt (09:16): From what I've seen is a lot of times people want to immediately get back into another relationship, which is why second divorces are around 60% versus first divorces. Katherine Miller (09:24): Third marriages are the statistics. Ronald Platt (09:26): 70%. Katherine Miller (09:26): Yeah, Ronald Platt (09:27): It's even worse because you keep making the same mistake. And I was part of that as well. I got out of a 14-year toxic relationship and I remember my sister's words were, "Don't date anybody for five years." And I thought, "Are you kidding me? " Of course I immediately met somebody and after about three months into the relationship, I thought, "This person is oddly familiar to me, even though they look different." It was because I was dating my ex in a different body because I hadn't taken the time out to figure out what I had just left and is that what I want in a new relationship or do I want to take the time out and figure out how I want to be loved unconditionally? Do I want to learn what it is that I want in that person? I've asked a lot of people, "What are you looking for? (10:06): " And a majority of them come back and tell me what they don't want. And I'm like, "Okay, that's great, but what do you want? " And then they sit there and they dead stare at me and they don't know because they haven't taken the time out to think about it. So I've seen reality shows, I've seen individuals where they literally are in the process of getting a divorce and they hook up with somebody else and try doing that relationship again. And again, statistically, it shows that that second relationship is not going to work unless you've done the time. So my advice is after you've signed those paperworks, take time to breathe. Take time to sit down and come up with a schedule about how your new life is going to look. If you do want to start dating again, then sit down and do the work to determine what it was about your ex that attracted you too though. (10:49): What caused it not to work out? And a majority of us are going to say, well, it was their fault. It was their fault it didn't work out. That he or she did this to me and did all these things. Okay, but what attracted you to that person? Or what do you think was the switch? There's always two parties at fault in any relationship that doesn't work. One party might be more at fault than the other, but there's always two parties. And until you do that introspective work to try to figure out what it is that you're doing and how you handle relationships and what it is you want in your next one, you're going to repeat the mistakes. A lot of those mistakes go back to our own childhood. For example, me, I was brought up in a family where conditional love was the norm. (11:29): And of course, I'm going to get into my first long-term relationship with somebody who's going to love me conditionally. So I never did enough. I never made enough money. I was always trying to do things to earn that person's love. And after I got out of that relationship, I had to figure out how I wanted to be loved. So my first thing is take time to breathe. Take time to figure out what your life looks like moving forward. Don't necessarily jump immediately into a relationship because that feeling of loneliness isn't necessarily going to be taken away by having a relationship with somebody. Figure out why you feel uncomfortable being alone. Do the work. That's how we end up growing. And I know it's uncomfortable, but I always like to say without discomfort, you can't grow. So take that time to be uncomfortable to get to the point where you can figure it out and then make choices. (12:14): Secondly, when you go to make financial choices, do you turn around and I just got a divorce, I need to go out and buy a house or I need to buy a new car or what do my finances look like? Take time out to figure out what that looks like as well. Does it make sense for you to rent for a year? Does it make sense for you to go out and purchase? Are you even in a financial position to afford to purchase? So if your partner was handling all the money and now you suddenly have to handle the finances, learn how to do that. Learn to live within the budget. I'm not going to give you advice on what that looks like, but these are things that were co-managed or possibly single managed by the other party. Now you got to figure it out. (12:49): So take that time. Take time to Katherine Miller (12:51): Breathe.Just to go back to the first part of what you were saying there, Ronald, is that I think I have a theory that the reason for the divorce was you could see it on the first date, but you weren't looking for it. When you look back and you think that what was your first date and how did it kind of go down? And you think, well, you know what? Actually, whatever that reason was is there. Now that might've seemed a bit of a positive that turned to what felt more like a negative over time. But five years does seem like a really long time to have to wait. I don't think you are saying that your sister's advice is what the listener should wait. That Ronald Platt (13:26): Was my sister's advice. And believe it or not, it did take me five years. But to your point, there was that time where you just want to go out and play and just be crazy. And then there's a time where you're like, okay, I'm done with the craziness. I think I'm ready for another relationship. I had a lot of clarity as to what it is I wanted my new partner. I had started journaling about it two years before I finished my last relationship because I was able to see, I don't want that, so what do I want? Well, no, I don't want any more of that. What do I want? And the more clarity I got, the more interesting my dates became because I was often able to sit with that person across the table and within five minutes realize if we're a match or not. (14:01): And sometimes I would actually get up from the table, shake their hand, pay the bill, and walk out and just say, "We're not a match. I'm sorry, this isn't good work. I'm a busy guy. I don't have time to waste on something that isn't going to work." And I would probably say 90% of the time I was right, but it took that clarity and that focus. Katherine Miller (14:20): Divorce Dialogues is brought to you by Miller Law Group. We believe divorce isn't just a legal process, it's a human transition. At Miller Law Group, we help people navigate divorce with dignity, clarity, and respect, focusing on conversations that lead to better outcomes for families. Learn more at miller-law.com. One of the things we talk about on divorce dialogues a lot is loneliness. And a lot of my clients, and I bet yours, fear loneliness.One of the reasons that the objections to ending the marriage is this idea that I'll never re-partner again. And people do feel, I think, lonely and isolated after divorce for a period of time. So for people who are experiencing that or people who fear experiencing that, what do you think they could do about it? Ronald Platt (15:11): I think you need to sit back and figure out a couple of things. What do you enjoy doing? What's your passion? I don't have a passion. Well, everybody has some kind of passion or some kind of interest. What is it? Is it a book club? Is it bowling? Is it sports leagues? Is it fishing? Is it walking? I live in St. Petersburg, Florida. There is a group for every interest you could possibly imagine that if you were a single person here in St. Pete and you couldn't find a group, you're really isolating yourself because there's one for everybody out here. It's just a matter of how do you step out and meet these people? And I think part of the loneliness, the fear is in what if I'm not liked? What if I'm not sociable? Or what if I walk into the room and nobody knows me? (15:51): That fear can be overwhelming. And I totally get that. I'm in the networking business, so I can walk into a room. And as much as I like to be able to walk into a room and say, "Hey, I'm Ron Platt. I'm with NASDF," and then I start meeting people, that fear of walking through that door is there for me. And what I try to do is look for that one person in the room that I know and then go to that person, say hello, and sometimes that person will introduce me to more people. But the more I get involved in my community, the more people I walk into a room and now know. So I think it's the fear of putting yourself out there causes us to isolate a lot of times. Or some people just don't like other people and that's okay too. So you might want to find your online group or you might want to get involved in something that you've always said when I retire, I want to... (16:39): Well, you don't have to necessarily wait till you retire to get involved in something. If it's a nonprofit, if it's fundraising, whatever it is, there has to be some kind of interest that gets you up in the morning and gets you out there. Or if you don't, then you need to sit back and figure out what those interests might look like. But I understand the fear of now having to do it on your own. That's a valid concern and a valid fear. But at some point you do have to pull your pants up and say, "I'm going to go ahead and do this and I got to put myself out there." Katherine Miller (17:04): And that is very good advice to join a group or attend a group, take a class, take an art class or dance class or yoga class or something. But if you do go to an event and you're worried about feeling awkward and not knowing someone, you know what? There's another person there who also feels awkward and doesn't know someone, and it's pretty obvious to see who that person is. So sidling up to that person and saying, "Hey, I don't know anybody here." And they'll laugh and say, "Me neither. Oh yeah, Joe, have you tried the dip?" I mean, whatever. Ronald Platt (17:38): I dated this person many, many moons ago and we would go to a bar and she'd walk in and she'd go up to somebody. I wasn't dating her at the time, we were just friends, but she'd go up to somebody at the bar that she was interested in. She'd tap them on the shoulder and she'd say, "Hi, my name is so-and-so. Tell me something about yourself." And the person would turn around and say, "Well, what do you want to know? " And she'd say, "I don't know. You tell me something interesting." And that's how she started conversations. And I thought, "That's a great line. Just walk up to somebody, tell me something about yourself," is one. The other one is, my granddaughter's a great example. I dropped her off at gymnastics camp. She didn't know anybody. She sees this one girl, talks to her and says, "Hi, I'm Savannah. (18:13): What's your name? My name's so - and-so. You want to be friends?" Okay. Why are twins able to do that so easily, but adults can't? And what if it was that easy for adults to do when you walk up to somebody? I'm part of a leadership program and the first day we all met each other, I didn't know anybody, but they were taking pictures of us. I leaned into the person next to me. She turned to me, she said something funny. I turned to her and said, "We're going to be friends." And to this day, we're still really close. Sometimes it can be as easy as saying, "Hey, you just want to be friends?" Katherine Miller (18:44): Where did we Ronald Platt (18:44): Lose that in our childhood, that fear that we can't say that anymore? Katherine Miller (18:47): Well, that's a whole nother podcast. Ronald Platt (18:49): It is a whole other podcast. Correct. So it's inspiring at the same point to watch kids do that. And where was that lost? But that one-liner of tell me something about yourself is a great way to break the ice. Katherine Miller (19:00): I mean, it's pretty ballsy to walk up to somebody at their bar and just tap them on their shoulder and ask them that. But if you're at a class or an event or a networking thing function or party, to be able to say that to somebody who is desperately also wanting to make a connection with someone else, I think that's a really interesting - Ronald Platt (19:18): And I know this generation is definitely having a harder time because they're so on their apps and they're so communicating on their apps that when they actually get together in a group, they don't know how to interact. So we've lost that ability sometimes to be one-on-one with people versus an app. It's concerning, but I've also seen where they're thrown into groups and they figure it out. And I think if the youth can figure it out, we can also figure it out at our age as well. It's uncomfortable and that's okay. It's okay being uncomfortable. Just don't let it to consume you. Katherine Miller (19:49): I was at an event the other night and I was sitting next to a young man, maybe the age of my children, but full in their adult marriage. And I said, "What do you like to do in your spare time?" And he said, "Video games." And I though, "Uh-oh." I have nothing to say about that. I found something else to talk about. But back to children, Ron, and talk about what kids need most from their parents during the transition from living together unhappily to a two-household family. Ronald Platt (20:19): They need to know that they have your time and attention, especially now because they're a little disoriented. Some might be a lot disoriented. Their environment is changing. They might be going to different schools because you've had to relocate. So I think the best thing you can do is take some extra time out to spend with those kids. If your work schedule's so tough, you got to figure out a time. It's not something that you can be a latchkey kid and immediately put them into a new environment and expect to hand them a key and say, "I'll see at four o'clock." And then once you get home, you're so busy doing other things that you don't have time to sit and talk with your kids. Take the time out and also create a schedule. Like I've said before, kids thrive on schedules. And the third thing is if you do screw up, I always say apologize to your kids. (21:00): Let them know that you're vulnerable, that, "Hey, here's the scenario. I probably didn't handle that as great as I should have and I'm going to make mistakes. So if I do, please let me know and we're going to work through it together." Have that communication. Don't talk badly about the spouse that you just left. It's going to cause some kind of negative results in your children. If you can't say anything nice about your former spouse, then don't say anything. Just say, yes, I understand what you're going through. I hear you. I understand. But that negative talk is definitely not going to help your kids transition quicker. It's going to cause more of a fissure between the two. So make sure that you're having those discussions, that you let them know that the road might be a little rough at the moment, but you're going to work it out with each other. (21:43): Ask them to communicate their feelings and emotions to you if they can. If they can't, then figure out another way and maybe you're writing notes to each other. I think one of the greatest things you can do is leave a kid a handwritten note card on their pillow at night just to let them know that you think they're doing a great job and that if there's anything they need, that they can reach out. It's little things sometimes, not the big grand things that get their attention and make them feel comfortable. Katherine Miller (22:05): Yeah, that's really sweet. So what do you think are some common mistakes that well-intentioned parents make even while they're trying to do their best while they're trying to help their kids adjust a divorce and themselves at the same time? Ronald Platt (22:20): Well, as I've said, I think that they try to overcompensate. I know my kids are hurting, so I'm going to go out and buy them a brand new car. If I watch some of these shows on TV and these kids are walking away with a new BMW, a new Porsche or something like that, I'm thinking that's not the way necessarily to get the kid to love you or get the kid's attention. It can be as basic as spending time, whether it's being part of their sports league or whether it's going to their dance recitals or gymnastic classes or whatever. Again, I'm going to use my granddaughter as an example. Even though we only had her for three weeks or two weeks this year, we were completely focused on her. We sat at the table and had our meals with her. We read her bedtime stories at night. (23:01): I couldn't go to her gymnastic recitals because I work, but my husband went and he sat and he videotaped it and then sent it out to all the family members and everything else. And she loved it. She ate it up. But the time that we are with her together or if I wasn't in my relationship, just having that one-on-one time knowing she has my full attention makes a huge difference and provides that comfort level that they really need. Katherine Miller (23:22): Ron, there are probably listeners struggling to find a positive future. What can help them regain some hope, some confidence and a rosier view of the future? Ronald Platt (23:34): That's a great question because everybody has a different perspective. I can say what I think works and somebody else will say, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've tried that. That doesn't work. I got to try something else." And this is a temporary situation that you're in right now with the process of the divorce. It's temporary because it's hard. You're breaking your relationship up. You might have not have had the best divorce process, so now you're in recovery. It's going to be a challenging time in your life, but it's not a permanent part of your life. So try to keep that in your mindset that majority of the people have gone through the process. Yeah, they say that that time was the worst time, that process of divorce, but that they did recover, that they did actually start to realize that there was life after the divorce. And you just need to give yourself a break and realize you're going to get there. (24:18): It looks bad now, but you're going to get there. For me, when I left my ex, not only did the great recession hit at the exact same time that I was breaking my relationship up. So as a realtor at the time, my business went from me making six figures to me making nothing within a day. But my lifestyle was at a six-figure level. So I suddenly realized I opened up the refrigerator one day and didn't have money for food, and I've never had a situation in my life where I didn't have that. And the person that I was leaving was still living in the house, was still using the electricity, was not contributing or anything else. There were huge stressors going on all over between what am I going to do with my son? And we have to list the house if there's no money coming in, the expenses, the bills, everything else. (25:04): And the only thing that worked for me was getting up in the morning realizing, "Oh my God, I put my feet on the ground and I can start another day and I could try to get out of this stuff that I'm in right now. What is positive about what's going on? " And even if it was I put my feet on the ground and I have all my faculties to start the day with, it's little, but it's something. For me, I had a dog at the time and I used to take her for five-mile walks and I created these gratitudes and I created these affirmations. So what I had was a journal to write my thoughts and pour my challenges into my affirmations, my gratitudes. As small and as stupid as that might sound, I attribute that to helping me get to the next day to be able to help the challenge. (25:43): And the challenges kept coming. The electric bill was high. So the electric company says, "Oh, we need an additional deposit because your bill's getting higher. Well, I don't have money to pay the bill. And if I don't pay the additional deposit, you're going to turn the electricity off." So they were just challenges. We had listed the house, that person hired an attorney. Every time we got an offer, the attorney rejected it until the point there was nothing left for the assets of the house. It felt like my world was coming to an end, but I also, every day I got up and I did those gratitudes and I did those affirmations. And when I got to work, I had to focus on what was going to make me money. And I had to focus on the things that my business coach had told me to do, which I could no longer afford, but I still did everything I was supposed to. (26:22): So I had the schedule. I had the constant vision of what it's going to look like a year from now or something to that effect. And that's what got me out of it. I tell the story because when there's nothing left, you have to create that positiveness that it's gratitudes and what's the future going to look like so that you can strive for something and achieve it. I'm a big goal setter. I had my goals set up on my mirror in the bathroom so that I could see them every day. I went to work and one of the guys in my office took because I had a picture of a white Mercedes E350 convertible sitting on my computer and I said, "That's my next car." I was broke, but my next car was that E350. And it turns out it wasn't. I ended up getting a Chrysler convertible, but from that Chrysler Convertible, I ended up eventually getting the Mercedes because I could see that goal. (27:07): That's what I really wanted to be driving. I could see the house I wanted to live in again. You know what I'm saying? That's how I was able to get out of it. I think those are the things we need to establish for ourselves. All Katherine Miller (27:17): Right, Ron, we're almost out of time, but there are two questions that I always like to ask toward the end of the show. And the first one is the reframe. That's what I call it. So the question is, what's one belief about divorce recovery that you think people need to let go of in order to move forward successfully or one misbelief? Ronald Platt (27:33): The misbelief is I'm never going to get out of this, and you have to believe that you are. This is a temporary blip, as I've said. As uncomfortable as this is without the discomfort, you cannot grow. They always say without failing, you can't succeed. Get used to being uncomfortable. That's your greatest growth point at that point. So as much as you think this is the worst point, you're going to look back at this and go, "Aha, that's why all of this happened so that I could learn this and this and this. And I am a stronger and better person now than I was back then." Katherine Miller (28:02): I think that's great. All right, so my last question, if someone is listening, they're in the middle of the divorce or they're feeling overwhelmed by what comes next, what's one piece of advice that you would really want them to hear? Ronald Platt (28:14): The one thing I would tell you is look at what we're offering. So NASDF offers a ton of resources and a ton of free things that we offer for people specifically in this situation. A lot of times we're going to need to have either our children or ourselves see a therapist because it's gotten so bad that I need to talk to somebody about that. And we offer free mental health care. We offer early childhood education discounts. If you're an at-home mom and you have that gap in your resume because you now need to go back to work, look at our career services. So I'm not going to say all the benefits and everything else, but what I would say is when you're in this situation, take a look at what we're about at nasdf.org and join because we have all these transitory things for you to participate in and enjoy and be able to appreciate so that it can make the next part of your life easier. (29:02): And then you probably would want to stay as a member because those things continue forever. That's my advice. Check us out, check our resources. We have divorce coaches, have mediators, we have relationship coaches, therapists, so many things that you're going to need. That's my advice. Katherine Miller (29:16): Well, I think it's really worthwhile because so many people come into facing divorce or they're afraid about facing divorce because they don't know and then they don't even know what they don't know and they don't know that they don't know what they don't know. So it's like, well, this is going to happen, a conclusion. I'm going to have to move. I'm going to never be able to afford this. My kids are going to have to change schools. Maybe, maybe not. And so if you don't have the information, you're not armed to make the best choices for yourself and your family. All right, Ron Platt, thank you so much for being my guest in Divorce Dialogues. It's been a really great conversation. Ronald Platt (29:49): Likewise, and thank you for having me on. I appreciate this time. Katherine Miller (29:52): Take care. I have some further reflections following my conversation... And with Ron Platt, and he talked a lot about focusing on the future and finding a way to take yourself through the dark days, to make connection again, to have gratitude about what you do have and focus on some ways on the positive, even if it's a little bit of a struggle to find a positive in this day. I think that it can be really helpful for people to think about where they would want to be a year from now, two years from now, five years from now. And take a page from Steppenwolf, the novel, which is this idea of the magic theater. Imagine the impossible is possible. Imagine that. So all of your objections as to why that couldn't happen, why that can't be, why that's just impossible, that is off the table because now we're just building a life. (30:52): Imagine it were that. And then before you tell yourself why that can't be or tell me or tell someone else why that couldn't be, figure out what's good about it. It's that I feel financially secure. I have a great relationship with my children. I have a job that I love. I have autonomy in my professional life. What is it that makes that vision of the future really good? Why does it feel good to you? Why does it work? And see if you can pull some elements out of that that you can work toward. And from then the point of the dark days that you might be in the middle of or might be immediately in front of you, the point of those dark days is to learn the lessons you need to learn to get to that vision of the future and are as close to it as you possibly can. (31:38): Not why I can't do it, but how can I do it? I think that for divorcing people, that can be a real paradigm shift, a change in how we're looking at things that take us from being negative and reactive to positive and proactive going forward. Thanks for listening. (31:58): If this conversation was helpful, share it with someone who might need it. And if you're navigating divorce yourself, you'll find more resources and episodes at miller-law.com. Make sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.