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Transcript

Haunted · The Knife: A True Crime Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: I thought, Okay, he's sleepwalking. Wake up, you're sleepwalking, And
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: then he just started laughing. It was the creepiest, scariest laugh.
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: Welcome to the Knife.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: I'm Patia Eton, I'm Hannah Smith, and today we've got
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: something a little different. In the spirit of Halloween, we're
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: bringing you something spooky. When Jamie and her family moved
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: into a two hundred year old home in Lamar, Arkansas,
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: it felt like a dream come true. That is, until
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: strange and eerie things started to occur. Jamie and her
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: family endured years of unexplainable sounds and sights, unexplainable unless,
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: of course, you believe in ghosts. Let's get into the interview. Hi, Jamie,
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: thank you for joining us today.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: Hello, I'm happy to be here.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: We're so excited to talk with you.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm so excited to talk to you guys too.
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: So take us to your life prior to two thousand
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: and two, when you end up moving into this house.
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: What was life looking like for you.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: I was actually working as a legal assistant. My mom
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: was an attorney. She's retired now, but I worked for
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: her law office. And then my husband Ben was a nurse,
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: but he was also going to school full time, so
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: it was hectic. We had a new baby, Jackson was
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: less than a year old, I think around eight months
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: old or so. We were living in a rental, just
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: an apartment, and we were looking for a house and
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: the kids could run and play, and we wanted to
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: keep it in this small town with you know, small
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: schools and plenty of space. So we were on the
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: hunt for a house. And I grew up in Lamar,
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: That's where I graduated high school, and so we thought
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: that was the perfect place to start.
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: Can you tell us like a little bit about Lamar
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: and what it's like there. I think most people may
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: not know.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's tiny, no stoplights, there's one gas station. There
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: is a post office. So we basically have a school,
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: a fire station, a little small police station. Back in
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: the day, there was a little diner called the Lamar
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: Drive in, but that's even closed now. Originally it was
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: called Cabin Creek instead of Lamar, and it was going
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: to be the state capitol. They considered it for the
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: state capitol at one time because the river's right there
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: and they had a strong railroad system. It used to
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: be this bustling town, but now it's just a tiny,
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: little small town where most people play sports because that's
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: the only thing they have to offer. There's no nightlife
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: or anything like that.
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: So that I'm me hearing is there's a lot of
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: history and.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: A lot of history, a lot of history.
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: Yes, what drew you to this house? In particular, my.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: Aunt uncle owned the house. They were debating on whether
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: to rent it out or to sell it, and so
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: they said, we know you're looking if you want to
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: check it out. They hadn't had it for long. I
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: don't believe they had had any renters in there or anything.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: It was kind of just sitting empty for a while.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: So they said, you know, it might be a fixer upper,
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: but take a look and if you want it, we'll
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: give you first DIBs on it. We really didn't look
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: much because as soon as we pulled up, I was like,
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: this is the one.
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: So did they have live in that house while they
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: owned it?
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: They never lived in it.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: Now that seems like a really exciting time. What was
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: it like when you first moved in?
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: Well, first, it was perfect. The trees were massive, and
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: it was you know, these beautiful, like gnarly old old trees.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: Big it was. It had five acres, so I could
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: picture my kids running back in those days. The houses
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: were built with two front doors, and so it had
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: this big front porch, kind of Antebellum style. It just
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: looked like a dream home. I mean, it definitely needed
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: some work. There was some tip paint, and you know,
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: we could we knew that we were going to have
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: to eventually do some renovations inside and out. But there
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: were so many little character things that drew us to it.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: That had these massive fireplaces that kind of bookended the house,
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: and so the chimneys went up both sides, and and
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: that was what I always picked. I always wanted an
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: older house, and I just couldn't believe that this was
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: in our price range, and so we were really excited
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: about that.
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: How old was the house, Well.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: From what I can tell, was built in the eighteen hundreds.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: On one of the chimneys at the very top in
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: the stone you can see is atch eighteen eleven, maybe
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: eighteen forty one, but definitely one of those two. You
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: can see it etched in the stone. So I it
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: is from what I know that it was built sometime
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: in that time, but also on a stone inside the house,
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: on one of the fireplaces, it said seventeen eighty something,
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: so I don't know, but sometime in the late seventeen
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: hundreds or eighteen hundreds. But I was told that that
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: was odd because there were only like a handful of
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: French tres in the area, so it was one of
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: the original houses in that area. Oh. I wanted to
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: mention that when we did the first walk through of
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: the house down one hallway, the very last room we
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: looked at when we were first looking at the house,
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: and I mentioned this several times when I tell the story,
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: but one of the fireplaces was boarded up and it
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: looked like someone had broken in. There was some like
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: candles and some paraphernalia laying around, beer cans, you know
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: that kind of stuff. And then painted on the board
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: was a pentagram and it had the name of a
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: boy painted next to it, so it looked like some
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: kids had been messing around. We didn't really think that
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: much about it, because I mean, it had been sitting empty.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: Because Lamar is a very small town. Jamie soon learned
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: that the name painted on the pentagram was a local
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: boy who had died. It seemed like some teenagers had
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: seen that no one was living in the house, broken
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: in and hung out, but Jamie and her family wouldn't
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: let this deter them from buying their first home, their
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: dream home. Around September of two thousand and two, Jamie,
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: her husband, Ben, and their three kids moved into the house.
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: The kids were excited because they each got their own room,
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: and at first all was well, but then about a
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: month in strange things started to happen.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: I feel like we had just unpacked our last box,
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: is the way I remember it in my head. We had,
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: you know, the TV setup. We were just exhausted. I
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: remember I was in my recliner and Ben was on
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: the couch and we were just relaxing, and I thought
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: I had heard one of the kids get up because
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: we heard walking, like footsteps coming down the stairs, and
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: I remember going, hey, you know, it's late, go back
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: to bed, and nothing. We just kept hearing like a
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: little bit of stomping. It sounded like small feet, not big,
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: you know, boots or anything, So I really thought it
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: was one of the kids. Bridger liked to get up
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: a lot and come down after he was already sent
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: to bed, and so I went to check and the
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: kids were all in bed, and so that was the
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: first thing that I remember happening. So I would say
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: about a month after when we kind of felt totally
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: settled in is when we first started hearing noises that
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: we couldn't explain.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: How are you like interpreting those noises?
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: At that time, old house things settling in. I even thought, well, maybe,
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: you know, when the kids got up and then heard
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: me coming up the stairs and was pretending like they're sleeping.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: Ben and I talked about it, and we're like, we're
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: probably going to hear a lot of you know, things
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: in this house because it's old, and old houses do
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: weird things. I guess when they're settling.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: So then how do things progress where you start to notice,
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: you know, what else happens over the course of a
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: couple weeks or a month.
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: It seemed like in the beginning, once we started hearing footsteps,
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: we'd also hear something that sounded like a ball bouncing
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: down the stairs. It was almost like someone took a
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: rubber ball and started at the top of the stairs.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: It would just be, you know, kind of like it
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: was rolling down the stairs. We heard that also, when
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: we would get settled into sleep, we would hear a pounding.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: It sounded almost like it was right above our heads
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: when we were trying to sleep, so it sounded like
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: it was something pounding on the wall, very loud.
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: Would you and your husband like, turn to each other,
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: did you hear that? What would the conversation be?
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: That was pretty much it. Did you hear that? And
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: he's like, oh, yeah, I heard that, So you know again,
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: I did a tree limb fall outside. It was so loud.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: It was almost like it was in the wall. I
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: don't know how to explain, but it was just very
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: loud and right above our heads. My middle son, Bridger Gosh,
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: I want to say. We moved in, who had to
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: be around five, and he would come down and say
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: that he couldn't sleep because people were talking in his room.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: He kept here and talking, and I thought, okay, you know,
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: we're watching TVs here in the sounds from the TV
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: through the walls or through the ceiling. But then he'd say, no,
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: it sounds like a lot of people talking over each
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: other and I can't understand what they're saying, and I
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: can't sleep. And again, I mean, this was pretty much
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: a few months after we moved in, and so I
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: just again thought it's the TV or it's his imagination,
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: you know. We didn't jump straight to, oh, gosh, there's
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: a sea of ghosts in his room.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: Jamie and Ben would eventually start to wonder if there
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: was something more going on in that old house, something paranormal,
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: but in those first months, they just continued to think,
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: this is an old house. Old houses make weird noises.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: So it was mostly just sounds throughout the house at first.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: But then a month or so would go by, and
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: that's when my son started reporting hearing people talking in
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: his room. He started reporting that his toys would start
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: making noises and kind of turn on by themselves. So
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: this was kind of over the first few months. I
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: would say, from fall to winter, these things started happening.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: It wasn't every day. Sometimes there would be a few
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: days in between. Some of those redew a week or
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: so in between, so it wasn't like we were constantly,
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: you know, hearing these things. But it started to happen
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: a little more frequently as the months went by. My
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: daughter actually thought my son was awake and playing with
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: his toys in his room, and she would come down
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: and kind of like taddle on him. You know, Bridger's awake,
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: he's playing with his toys in his room. Or she
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: would go and look and he'd be sound asleep. And
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: so she couldn't explain why she was hearing toys moving
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: around or you know, sirens going off on the fire truck.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: Jamie and Ben continued to hear noises that didn't make sense,
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: voices of people they didn't know, toys turning on in
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: the middle of the night, someone walking around upstairs, a
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: ball bouncing. Still, they explained it away as the sounds
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: of an old house. Jamie was really clear that she
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: didn't bring up the idea of ghosts to her kids. Instead,
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: she would tell them, you're probably just hearing the TV
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: through the wall, or maybe it's the wind. Slowly, but surely,
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: more odd things started to happen.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: After a while. When I was sleeping, it felt like
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: someone was going and just like flicking my hair, and
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: Ben actually saw my hair flick.
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: Really, yeah, that's terrifying.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: It was so scary. So that happened, and I was like, okay,
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: you know now it's beyond just noises. Ben was sleeping,
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: he worked, he was a factory nurse at Tyson, so
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: he worked overnight, but then he would sleep for just
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: a few hours and then go to class. And so
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: we had one of my friends, I worked at the
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: law office, and so she would come and kind of
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: help with Jackson because the other two were in school
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: while Ben could get some sleep, and then she would
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: stay with him until I got off work. And Ben
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: was trying to sleep and he heard Jackson crying because
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: we had the baby monitor in our room, and he
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: heard Jackson crying and he was like, you know, Gessa,
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: you know I are you going to get the baby?
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: And he thought that she was just ignoring the baby.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: So he finally got up, and he was real grumpy
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: about it because you know, he was trying to sleep,
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: and so he kind of stombed upstairs and Jackson was
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: not there, Dessa was not there. They were gone. But
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: he heard this loud crying and the monitor and there
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: was no baby.
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: It was a sound only monitor. I'm assuming no video.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: No video. Yeah, but he never mentioned that to me
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: at first. He didn't want to freak me out. I mean,
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: we had already started going. I don't know, maybe we
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: have something else going on, but I mean we just
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: we were busy people and we really just wanted it
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: to be nothing, and so we would try to explain
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: it away. Even as it progressed. We would try to,
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: you know, is it our imagination, is it just the
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: old house? What is it? It's hard because your imagination
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: can do crazy things, you know, and so we you
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: know everything, we just kind of we're suspicious, but nothing
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: was like one hundred percent this house is haunted. Yet
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: I went to Walmart, and again it's a small town.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: There was a greet or she was young. I didn't
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: know her, but she said, hey, is your name Jamie?
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: And I said yes, and she said do you live
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: in that house on Cabin Creek? And I said yeah.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: And she said, well some of my family used to
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: live there and it's haunted. And I said oh really,
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: And I said, well, I'd love to hear more. She
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: wrote down her number. This was like cell phones weren't
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: really a thing. Then I was like okay, but I
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: was in a rush, and I said, would love to
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: talk to you more. She wrote down her name and number,
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: and then I just kind of put it aside and thought, well,
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: you know, I'd like to hear more. At some point
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: but it wasn't like we had experienced enough to where
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: I felt like I was desperate for information at that time.
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and prior to this experience in your life, I guess,
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: prior to this chapter, were you, you know, a believer
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: in ghosts the paranormal.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: Yes, but it wasn't. I've never felt really scared. When
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: I was a teenager, we had a lot of things
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: happen in one of the houses I lived in. My
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: mom has experienced somethings, so I've always believed in ghosts,
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: but none of them have ever felt like a threat
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: or anything like that. It was just something I've always
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: believed was there but couldn't explain.
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: So things are progressing, you know, slowly, but surely you're
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: hearing more and more than you run into this person
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: at Walmart who knows a little bit about other people
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: who have experience. Maybe the house is haunted. When is
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: the moment of okay, this is paranormal.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: Well, as soon as Ben told me about the baby monitor,
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: for me, that was enough. With everything else that's happened,
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: that kind of sealed the deal for me. I'm like,
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: something's not right. But at the same time, what do
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: you do? You just bought a house. We put every
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: penny we have into it. What are we going to do?
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, if our house is haunted, I mean seems
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: like they're harmless. If there are ghosts here, nobody's being hurt,
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: So what do you do? But then the thing that
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: kind of changed my mind to maybe it's not just
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: a harmless ghost. My friend that was helping me with
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: the baby. We also had some creative projects. We were
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: doing a writing project and it was late at night.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: Ben was working overnight and we were both sitting at
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: this computer monitor and just kind of talking and the
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: kids were already in bed. It was probably ten or
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: eleven at night and working away, and then we saw
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: what looked like just like kind of a shadow past,
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: you know, just a reflection on the monitor, and we
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: both jumped and she was like, did you see that?
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: And I said, yep, I sure did. So we were
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: freaked out. But again, was it a passing car, was
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: it some kind of reflection through the window. You just
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: don't know. And we were already kind of jumpy because
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: of things that had happened in the house. So we
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: kept working. But then I heard one of the kids
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: coming down the stairs. When he round to the corner,
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: walked straight up to us, just blank face, walked right
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: up next to me. You know, I'm like, I'm sitting here.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: He was just standing right next to me and looking
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: straight ahead, and it looked like he was in a trance.
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: And so, you know, I was like, Bridger, are you okay,
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: what's going on? And nothing, just a blank stare. So
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: I thought, okay, he's sleepwalking. And so I kind of,
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: you know, like shook his little shoulders and you know, like,
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: wake up, Bridger, you know you're sleepwalking. And then he
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: just started laughing like it was the creepiest, scariest laugh
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: just aha, just like right in my face. And I
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: could not snap him out of it at all. It
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: was the scariest thing I've ever seen. I mean, it's
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: not a laugh I've ever heard him make before, so
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: laughing laughing. I finally was like, Bridger, you know, just
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: we're like frantically trying to wake him up. At this point,
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: he finally snapped out of it. He was so confused,
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: he had no idea what was going on. He just
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: seemed completely unaware of how he made it down the stairs.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: He didn't remember laughing, didn't remember anything, we did have
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: a dog, and at that point, the dog just took
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: off like a bolt up the stairs, just bolted up
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: the stairs and we could hear the dog just barking,
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: bark and barking like ferociously, and so Destin I ran
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: up the stairs after the dog, and the dog was
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: on Bridger's bed, jumped up on Bridger's bed, went to
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: the corner. It looked like it had something pinned in
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: the corner and was just barking, barking, barking, and it
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: was terrifying. So Desain and I were so scared and
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: we ran back down the stairs, and as we were
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: coming down the stairs, we noticed that the dog's leash
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: was at the bottom of the stairs. It was not
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: there when we just ran up the stairs thirty seconds
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: before that. So it was almost like whatever it was
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: was saying, get this dog out of here.
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: So Deessa saw all of this happen with Dodgers. Yeah,
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: what was her reaction in that moment?
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: No, she was freaked out. Yeah, yeah, she was very
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: freaked out.
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: Had he ever sleptwalk before?
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: No, how old was he at this time, five or six?
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: I can't remember how long it had been at this point,
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: but we definitely have been there for a while, so
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: at least a year.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And then did he ever sleepwalk again after that?
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: No?
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: Nope, This was like one isolated incident. Yes, And I
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: mean that's got to be scary in and of itself.
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: I've been around people who sleepwalk, and it sort of
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: feels like this creepy experience no matter what, because you're like,
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: your eyes are open, you're walking around, you're not aware,
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: you're like a weird zombie person. Yeah, but the laughing
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: and then also in combination of as soon as he
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: sort of comes out of it, the dog right, would
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: freak me out so much because, like you said, humans whatever,
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: I think, once we have it in our heads, maybe
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: that something's haunted. There's all these ways that we could
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: interpret something right to be like, well, yes, was that paranormal,
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: but like a dog doesn't know that. Nope, And dogs
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: are very perceptive. We love dogs on this podcast.
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: Yes, had the dog ever done anything like that?
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: No?
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: No, Wow, that's so strange.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: That was by far the scariest thing that happened. I
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: don't know. I don't want to say he was possessed,
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: because everything was fine after that, you know, he was
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: perfectly normal, but something I don't know what it was.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: He was like a scary trance of some sort that
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: he was in.
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm just like, as a mom, like, how
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: do you put him back down to bed or what
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: did you do?
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: He slept with us? Yeah, yeah, he slept with us.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: Jackson later on slept with us as well. We had
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: a very crowded bed. Tory, my oldest was the only
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: one really that slept in her room.
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: Sounds like a good dog.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: I know. She was the best. Her name was Calli
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: and she was very protective. Yeah.
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: So what did you tell Ben?
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: Oh? I mean, I just I told him what had happened,
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: and he was really freaked out. I mean he was
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: kind of skeptical and always try to explain it away
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: up to the baby monitor thing, which then that started
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: his wheels turning that maybe we had a ghost. But
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: then other things had happened, like him seeing my hair
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: being flipped, and there were things that were happening that
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: he couldn't explain anymore. And so by the time this
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: happened with Bridger, he was scared.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So then what do you do, because, as you said,
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: you've bought this house, you know, that's a huge sort
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: of purchase and accomplishment to like be like, we bought
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: a house and we put all our money in it.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: It's not an easy thing to just undo. But now
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: you're seeing and hearing things. But at this point, now
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: it sort of crossed over to your son seems to
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: have been affected in this scary way, right, So what
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: do you do next? Like what are you thinking at
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: that point?
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: Well, I had started talking to my family, my mom,
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: and you know, just like what do I do? And
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: we can't just move. We have all of our money
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: tied up in this I mean, Ben was going to school.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: It was a very, very financially stressful time already. On
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: top of all the things that have happened in this house,
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: it also had a lot of old house problems, trouble
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: with the you know, central heating, air and the appliances
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: were constantly breaking, and we'd have electrical problems and it
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: was just always something in the stress of it was
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: just a lot, but we were kind of stuck there.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: It was pretty impossible for us to move. The thing
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: that was our saving grace, I think was that this
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: was not constant. So we would have several months where
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: they would happen, you know, and we'd hear these noises,
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: and that happened with Bridger, and then we would have
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: several months where nothing, nothing, completely quiet, and we're like, okay,
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: you know, maybe everything's okay, and so we start to
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: settle in again and get comfortable in the house, and
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: then something else would happen. This was a pattern, and
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: this went on for two or three years of very
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: active and then really quiet.
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: When you say more active, can you give some examples
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: of like things that were happening when things became active again.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it would be all over the place. Really. We
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: heard the noises, like the ball bouncing often, that was
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: something that happened more than once. Stomping, the knocking on
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: the walls would happen a lot. Weird things would happen,
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: like we'd wake up and there would be dimes in
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: our shoes and it's like slippers, you know, took your
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: slippers off, get into bed, wake up the next day,
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: put your feet in your shoes and there's dimes in
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: there or a cheeto. You know, it's just like what
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: is going on? I heard someone call my name from
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: the laundry room. I was in the kitchen and it
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: sounded like one of the kids going mom, you know mom.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: So I went in there. No one was in there.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: My brother came to stay at the house, and he
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: saw what looked like a stream of smoke, like maybe
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: someone had set like a cigarette or a cigar or
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: a pipe or something down and there was just this
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: stream of smoke coming up from the counter. I saw
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: that as well at a different time. There were just
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: so many different things going on in the house.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: Jamie tried to look into the history of the house.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: She knew the house was really old, and she wondered
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: if maybe there was a clue in the history that
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: might shed light on what was going on in the
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: h She reached out to the historical society. She asked
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: around the neighborhood. She ended up being told that the
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: written history of the house had been lost to a fire.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: But there were many local rumors about this house.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: It was rumored to be the original stage coach stop.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: It was rumored that it was a speakeasy at one time.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: It was rumored that it was even used temporarily as
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: the county jail. So we were hearing all these things,
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: and we heard that a boy had fallen from the
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: upstairs window. I also heard that someone got hit by
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: a stage coach. I heard all these stories. I can't
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: verify any of them. It was all just this was rumors,
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: but we started talking about it in what it could be.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: There was also a cemetery, a Confederate cemetery, about two
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: hundred yards from the house. It was on the property.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: It was five acres, so that was part of the
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: five acres, but it was ded it off, so the city,
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: the town took care of the cemetery itself, but it
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: was on the property. So there were so many things
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: that we just thought there's been a lot of history here.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's just you know, spirits that there's been so
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: many people in and out, so much happened here, hundreds
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: of years worth of activity, and so that's kind of
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: what we wrote it off as. It's just it's a
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: very active house because it has a rich history.
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: Did you think back to that person at Walmart?
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I actually wanted to talk to her again. A
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: lot of time had gone by. I can't keep track
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: of anything, so I lost her name or number. I
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: had no idea. All I knew was what she looked
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: like and that she was from Lamar that her family
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: had lived there. That's what she told me. It was
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: a very brief conversation, the first time go into any detail.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: She just said, oh, my family used to live in
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: that house and it's haunted. So I did go back
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: and just kind of look for her. I just said,
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: you know, hey, you know there was a greeter here.
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: This is what she looks like. I don't remember her name.
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: And they're like, oh, yeah, that's so and so, and
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: she doesn't work there anymore. So I didn't know how
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: to get back in touch with her.
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and houses the biggest purchase most of us ever make.
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: You can't just up and leave. Did you take any
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: sort of action to try to rid the house of
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: the ghosts?
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: Yes. After the thing with Bridger, I had talked to
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: my mom and I was like, what do we do?
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: And she's like, well, maybe you can get the house
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: cleansed or have some investigators come and see, you know
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: what they can find. And I've never done anything like that.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: My mom had seen I think an article in the
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: Arkansas Democrat Gazette and it was talking about CASPER, which
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: is Central Arkansas Society for Normal Research. I love that academics.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: It's great.
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: Classic.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So I found their email. I emailed them. I said, look,
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: this is what's going on. Do you want to come
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: and do an investigation? Is there anything you can do
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: to help us?
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: Jamie planned to have this paranormal society come check out
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: their home to do an investigation and hopefully a cleansing,
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: but before they could even schedule that, something terrible happened.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: I had gone to pick up the kids from school.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: I had the two boys. They were in there. Bridge
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: was about five, so he was still in a booster seat.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: Jackson was still in a car seat, and Tory was
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: sitting with me up front. And it wasn't a long drive,
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: maybe three or four miles from the school to the house,
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: and we were driving home. It had been raining for
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: the last few days, so the road was a little wet.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: They were doing construction and one of the construc ruption
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: barrels looked like someone had tapped it and it had
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: rolled out into the middle of the road, and I
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: went to go around it, and I overcorrected and we
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: ended up, you know, sliding, and the road was wet,
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: and we ended up flipping several times. The van ended
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: up rolling and landing upside down. It was terrifying. I
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: did not know where Tory was. She was not in
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: her seat. I got out after figuring out what was
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: going on and that we had just wrecked and the
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: boys were upside down. They were still in their seats,
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: completely fine. I could tell that they were fine. So
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: I went and tried to find Tory. I didn't know
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: she had like phone out and she was in the
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: ditch or what. And someone came running that had witnessed
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: the accident. It was running full speed towards me and said,
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: there's someone under the van and I I didn't know
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: what I was going to find, but I knew it
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: was Tory. And I crawled on my hands and knees
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: under the van. There was a little bit of a
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: space enough for my body to get under the van,
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: and she was there. She was pinned under the van.
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: She wasn't moving. It was very hard. I touched her
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: hand and she did kind of come to, and I
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: remember her saying, what's happened? And I told her, you know,
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: we were in an accident. And I was so glad
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: that she was okay. But she could barely I mean,
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: she was the weight of the van was on top
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: of her. So she had no breast. She could barely
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: get any words out, and she's like, I can't you know,
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: I can't breathe. And I just said to just keep
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: talking to me as long as you're talking breathing, you know.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: And so I stayed there. Someone had called nine one one,
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: and it was very fast. It seemed like almost instant
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: that the Saint Troopers arrived on the scene. She was
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: just like, am I going to die? And it was
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: the worst, worst moment of my life. We were able
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: to get the van. They came with special tow truck
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: and was able to lift the van straight off of her.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: They said the only reason why she survived is because
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: it had rained for days and the ground was super soft,
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: so she was able to sink into the mud. So
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: the weight of the van was taken off of her
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: because she was able to sink into the ground.
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: How old was she when this happened.
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: She was ten. She was ten years old. Yeah, it
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: was the worst day of my life. Yeah, the worst
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: day of my life by far. But she was rushed
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: to children's hospital and she broke several ribs. She broke
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: her back. She had compression fractures on her back in
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: several places knocked, some of her teeth out, was covered
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: in glass. It was awful. The boys didn't even have
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: a scratch on them, but cautionary tale. She had her
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: seatbelt the strap tucked behind her back, and just with
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: all the rolling and her being so small, it didn't
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: hold her in. She was in the hospital for a
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: couple of weeks and then came home. She was in
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: an immobilizing back brace, and so I took off work.
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: She was out of school and I stayed with her
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: full time. I mean, we were already in financial trouble
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: and then this happens, and you know, I have a
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: healing child, and so it kind of felt like we
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: were just stuck there in the house until at least
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: so she healed, you know.
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: Jamie said this was an incredibly stressful period of her life.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: They were struggling financially. The house seemed to need constant repairs.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: She was sleep deprived, incredibly sleep deprived, and two of
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: her kids were also sleeping in their bed because of
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: the scary voices they were hearing in their rooms. Jamie
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: and Ben really wanted to leave this house, but they
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: just couldn't do it financially, not yet. But Jamie wants
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: to be really clear that she doesn't believe anything paranormal
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: caused this car wreck. She said she previously told her
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: story and it was interpreted that perhaps a ghost might
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: have grabbed the wheel, but that is not how Jamie
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: sees it.
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: No, And you know, the story has been told by
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: a major network, and I was really upset when I
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: saw their rendition of it because I do not believe
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: that it was a paranormal thing that caused the wreck.
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: I feel like, I mean, it just was one of
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: those things and it could have happened if I was,
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: you know, fully rested too. I just remember feeling so
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: exhausted that day and I don't know if my you know,
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: reflexes were not where they should have been or what.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: But I think if I'm going to blame the house
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: at all, it would just be that we were exhausted.
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it sounds like it was a very
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: stressful time and it was you know, sleep deprivation with
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: little kids is so real. Yeah, even in the best
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: of circumstances, and then you're dealing with like this older
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: home that has issues and strange activity and the financial stress.
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: It's a lot at once.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was.
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: And so then you obviously have no choice but to
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: go back home. And now your child is in this
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: I think you called it in immobilizing back brace. Yes,
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: And you had said earlier like the house was just
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: full of actual just problems, right, that must have been
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: so difficult to care for her in that space.
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: It was. I mean she was in excruciating pain all
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: the time. I mean sometimes she would just howl with pain.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: He couldn't go to school, you know, so we were
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: I was homeschooling her and then still trying to keep
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: up with working from home. And it was a lot.
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: And she's doing great now. So I always told her
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: she was meant for great things, you know. Yeah, it
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: seems like a miracle that she survived that accident.
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: Sounds like a miracle.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: Once Jamie's daughter Tory was recovered, Jamie reached back out
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: to the paranormal Investigation organization. She thought, well, we can't
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: leave the house right now, but maybe this organization can
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: help stop the paranormal activity and make our lives easier.
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: They had a skeptic come with them. They always brought
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: someone that was I believe he was an electrician. I
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: could have this wrong, but he at least knew something about,
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: you know, the electrical problems. It could check out the house.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: Because we had one hallway, the one that was leading
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: to Bridgers room. We could never keep the lights on
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: in that hallway, and so that made it extra creepy
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: because he was reporting all this stuff from his room
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: and so we had Alan, one of the skeptics with Casper,
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: check out the electricity and he couldn't see anything that
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: was wrong.
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: And what was the issue with the light?
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah. We we would put even like led bulbs you know,
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: in there. They were supposed to last for years, and
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: within hours the light would go out. It just wouldn't work.
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: It was just like it used all the power from
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: the bulb within a few hours. We even got touch
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: lamps specifically for when the investigators were coming, you know
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: the kind that you can just stick to the wall,
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: then you touch them and then come on so their
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: battery operated. Got several of those and just lined them
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: down the hallway with new batteries and backup batteries, and
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: within a few minutes they would burn out. It wouldn't work.
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: A touch slamp in a haunted house was like, okay,
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: you're inviting some weird stuff.
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, I know.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: But that's not even connected to the old house electric
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: system and they're still going out. That's that's creepy. That's freaky.
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: It was very freaky, very freaky, and it was just
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: in that one hallway that was leading to Bridgers room.
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: And what to people who do the work that Casper does,
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: what do they do to cleanse a house?
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: Well, when they first came in, they just kind of
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: kind of took over the house. They had a psychic
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: with them and they would just kind of go and
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: sit in different spaces in the house. So Bridger's room
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: was one of the major places that they would sit
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: because that's where we had the most activity reported. So
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: they would just sit and kind of just tell us
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: if they picked up on anything. I had my friend
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: that watch, Jackson, was with us. One of my cousins
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: was there, so I had several people with me, and
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: then they had Casper had several members with them, and
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: so we kind of just waited for something to happen
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: for a while. One of the psychics, I believe her
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: name was Violet, said that when she was in Bridger's room,
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: she just heard like a sea of voices which is
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: kind of what Bridgert was describing. She said there were
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: so many that she couldn't tell what they were saying.
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: None of the words they were saying were clear. It
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: was just like everyone was talking over each other, and
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: that's what bridger had described. And they did have video
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: cameras set up in several places. I know one was
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: set up kind of from bridges room, pointing down the
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: hallway where the lights we couldn't get to stay on.
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: One of the investigators said that's where they felt the
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: biggest oppressive feeling, almost like that was a negative energy
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: in the house. And also the psychic said that she
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: felt that there was both good and bad spirits in
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: the house, that she felt that some more benign and
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: that seemed a little more malignant. You know, we were
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: hearing all this, and so ultimately they decided that they
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: wanted to try to communicate with some of these spirits,
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: and this is when they brought out a Ouigi board.
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: You know, looking back, I never would have agreed to
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: this if I had known more about what was going
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: to happen.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: What was your feeling about Ouiji boards before that?
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: I didn't have a good feeling, But also I didn't
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: know what to believe. You know, I didn't know if
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: it was just there's all these scary stories attached to it,
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: but I didn't know if it's something I should be
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: really afraid of. But again I thought, they're the professional investigators,
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: so let's, I guess, let them do their thing. They
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: had several people, I want to say four people that
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: had their hands on the blanchet. They started asking questions,
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: is their spirit in the house that wants to speak
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: to us? That kind of thing. It would say yes,
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: there was, so the blanchet would go to yes, and
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: then it would say, you know, have we seen you?
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: What is your name was one of the questions. What
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: is your name? And it spelled out SETH, so S
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: E T H went to each of the letters. And
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: then they asked when this spirit was alive, and it
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: said never. And so everyone freaked out when that happened
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: because they said, if it's never, that means it's a
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: demon that they're communicating with.
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: Oh wow, okay, yeah.
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: And so the question was is this something that's been
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: in the house or is this something that they conjured up?
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: Because they started using the Ouiji board and so that's
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: something I've never known, because up to that point, I
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: never felt like we had a demon. I just felt
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: like we had very active ghosts. I didn't feel like
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: our lives were in danger. But once that happened, it
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: felt like the energy and in the house changed.
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: Really, So you noticed a difference after.
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you do get kind of swept away in
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: the moment. I mean, if you're you're sitting there and
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: you're hearing this, and of course you're terrified.
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't want anyone telling me that a demon
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: named Seth lives in my house.
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because if you like believe in this stuff or
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: are at least like open to it, then people who
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: then die and maybe exist in some sort of like
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: ghost state. You know. I think most people are inherently
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: good or have good in them, but a demon rights
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: like that's really staffying.
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: It was very terrifying. And then they asked the spirit
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: if anyone had seen him tonight that night, and it
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: said yes, And so they asked you know who, and
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: it looked like the Blanchets, sort of moving in a
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: figure eight almost. It's almost like an infinity sign, you know,
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: kind of, And then it went off the board and
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: went and pointed at one of the cameras. Yeah, almost like, yes,
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: someone saw me. It's on this camera right here.
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: And then was there some sort of footage that they aired.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: I wish I could get my hands on this footage.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: Supposedly there was a figure in the hallway. It was
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: from the camera that was pointing from Bridger's room down
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: the hallway, and it looked like a shadow figure that
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: was kind of forming almost to a human shape, starting
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: at the ceiling, kind of coming down and making a
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: human form, but then would fade away.
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: Did they ever show it to you?
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: I could see it, but it was very it was hard,
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: you know, it's very dark, you know how video footage is.
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: To me, it looked like something forming, but I, you know,
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, obviously who knows what was really going on, and
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: maybe maybe they were picking up on something. But so
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: my brother works in film and he worked for one
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: of these ghosts investigation shows for a while. Obviously not
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: this one, but a different one, and you know, they're
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: all different, but this one sounded very almost like predatory
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: on people, like coming into their home telling them that
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: there's all these things there. He at one point sort
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: of was in the background and like flushed a toilet
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: or something, and he was like, oh, sorry, that was me, Like,
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: you know, he should stop filming, and they were like, no,
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: just be quiet, we'll get that. In the background, there
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: was a lot of fabricating of stuff, ok, for the TV,
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: because it has to look big and it has to
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: look you know, you have a crew, you're paying, you
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: have a show, so you have to make sure that
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: there's some payoffs. Not to say that every place does that,
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: but there's part of my brain that's like, oh, they
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: came into your house and told you that it was
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: demon possessed and then then pointed to the camera like
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: the camera has the footage, not to say that it's
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: not real. But regardless if it was real or even
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: if they made it up, it's like kind of rude
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: to you because and now you think that there is
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: a demon in your home.
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: Yes, it was terrifying. It was terrifying. So up to
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: that point, I mean, we just thought, let's cleanse the house,
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: let's have these people. You know, we're stuck here, you know, financially,
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: there's nothing we can do. We have an injured child,
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: We're not going anywhere. Maybe these people can come in
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: and give us some peace of mind, give us some
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: answers or anything. And then when they brought out the
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: WISI board, I changed my perspective. I was terrified after that.
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: Jamie and Ben had come to believe that their house
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: was haunted, and the haunting had been affecting the entire family.
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: They were on edge, stressed, scared. So the whole reason
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: Jamie invited this paranormal investigation group into her home was
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: to cleanse it. What she wanted was peace and for
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: her family to feel less afraid in the house. Instead,
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: what happened was this group came in and introduced an
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: even scared your idea that a demon named Seth was
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: living there. Jamie said she had never felt more terrified
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: in her own home than at that moment. So it
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: makes you wonder if this group was potentially making things worse,
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: giving them more reasons to feel unsettled. Jamie did say
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: that after they announced the presence of the demon, they
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: then performed some cleansing rituals.
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: They went through with sage. They had brought sage and
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: you know, all this stuff, and so they went through
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: and they were saying, you know, cleanse this house. They
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: were doing some chanting and please by all means, you know,
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: do this. At this point, I was all for them
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: doing this. I was terrified. But then they did like
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: a circle of salt around the house and some of
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: these other rituals. And I don't know if it was
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: just the power suggestion or what, but it did feel
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: almost instantly like it had helped, like things had calmed down.
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: But you know, I don't know, I don't know if
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: what they did really worked or if it was just
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: the power of suggestion, like this is going to help,
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: you know, made me feel a little more relaxed, but
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: it was kind of like, okay, you know, they did
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: the cleansing and then they left, so it was just Okay,
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: you have a demon in your house, We're going to
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: do this cleansing and now we're out, you know, good
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: luck kind of thing. But it didn't stop the activity.
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: Within a couple of days, we started hearing the noises
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: and cabinet doors opening, and it hadn't really changed much.
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: Sometime after this, Jamie and Ben both got jobs working
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: on a TV show in Joplin, Missouri. They put the
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: house on the market. It didn't sell, so they ended
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: up renting it out through a realty company, they packed
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: up their lives and they moved to Joplin.
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: It helped great. I felt great for so many reasons.
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, I didn't feel like the spirits followed us
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: or anything. I feel like I slept so well in
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: a new space. And also we didn't have the responsibilities
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: of maintenance. We had a landlord, and it just seemed
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: like such a relief compared to what we've been going
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: through for the last four years. We were there, I
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: think about a year close to a year. And while
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: we were in job On actually is when the Discovery
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: Channel contacted us and they wanted to do a story
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: on our house.
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: Jamie and Benn decided to participate in the Discovery Channel
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: story about their haunted house, and then eventually they actually
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: moved back to Lamar, back into the haunted house. They
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: were finally able to do some renovations, and they sold
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: the house in two thousand and seven.
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: How do you think the experience of living in a
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: house that felt haunted has impacted you.
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, at the time, it was exhausting. I think
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: even I made the joke, I guess it would be
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: a joke, but when people ask me about the house,
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: I still have people contacting me, like you guys after
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: the Discovery Channel did the episode of a Haunting. For years,
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: people would reach out to me. They would find me
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: on Facebook or social media or you know, find my
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: email and reach out. And so I made the joke
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: that now that's the only thing haunting me. Yeah, it's
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: that story.
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: All these Instagram messages.
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, But no, I mean I remember
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: it as one of the most stressful times of my life.
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: It was such a relief when I finally left, not
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: just because of the haunting, but just because it was
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: such an old house. It just didn't have the vibe
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: that we thought it was going to have. It was
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: scary and it was also always breaking, and just between
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: the two, it was just an exhausting experience.
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, an old house is like really charming as an idea,
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: but the reality is like, oh this is really old
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: and yeah, a lot of maintenance.
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, I love the craftsmanship, paint the ghosts exactly.
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: It was such a.
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, love the craftsmanship.
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: You don't have any yet, Patia, Happy Halloween, Happy Halloween.
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: Do you plan to dress up?
• 52:46
  Speaker 3: You know, gosh, I haven't dressed up for Halloween in
• 52:49
  Speaker 3: a long time. I think I did like a very
• 52:51
  Speaker 3: lazy sort of cat costs back in twenty twenty two. Yeah,
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: drew on someone scars like a little headband. But no,
• 53:02
  Speaker 3: I mean, I don't have any night of Halloween plants,
• 53:05
  Speaker 3: and I certainly don't have any party plans. But I
• 53:08
  Speaker 3: assume the chapter I'm in right now will involve a
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: lot of trips to the pumpkin patch, a lot of
• 53:14
  Speaker 3: painting the pumpkins, a lot of petting zoos.
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: Will turn our dress up?
• 53:20
  Speaker 3: She will, she will. I think she has an Elsa
• 53:22
  Speaker 3: costume locked and loaded that she's pretty excited about.
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: Rosen has really taken young children by storm for many,
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: many years.
• 53:30
  Speaker 3: I never thought I would be that parent that knows
• 53:33
  Speaker 3: every word to every Disney movie and she doesn't even
• 53:36
  Speaker 3: watch that much, but they are just so catchy and
• 53:39
  Speaker 3: good that like, I learned them all.
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: It's a pretty good movie. I recently watched it with Ben,
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: mainly because it's always in crossword clues and we're like,
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: I don't really know what this movie is about, so
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: we watched it so that we could understand the crossword
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: clues and I enjoyed it.
• 53:53
  Speaker 3: Okay, good movie, Yeah, it's good, right, even since like
• 53:57
  Speaker 3: my day, they've come so far. Like I remember thinking
• 54:00
  Speaker 3: Toy Story was like amazing, amazing, wow, and it is
• 54:04
  Speaker 3: and it was then, but yeah, they've gotten even better.
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I usually go to a Halloween party, but
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: I panic and try to decide my costume about two
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: hours before I leave, even though I have three hundred
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: and sixty five days since the last Halloween. And you
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: strike me as someone who would plan that literally never have.
• 54:22
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: No, there's been many years that I've dressed up as Christmas.
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: Oh okayeen okay, because it was like I had like
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: a tree green, just like Christmas, not like any specific object,
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: like a green dress, and then I would just wrap
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: my body in garlands and lights and fine, and then
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: I'd be like I'm Christmas. And it's sort of an
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: easy go to.
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: I've thought about maybe doing that again this year, or
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: trying a different holiday, but there's that like I don't know,
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: I don't want to be Thanksgiving or like Fourth of July,
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: like no one wants to dress up like that. Really,
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: it could be Easter. I guess I could be Easter.
• 54:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I've got nothing to offer is inspiration for Halloween
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: costumes I think it's commendable anybody that was effed in
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: to dress up. And I love the Christmas idea.
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: Okay, maybe I'll do that. I do love Halloween, and
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: we had a fun Halloween episode today. You know, it
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: got me thinking about how many people believe in ghosts.
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: Jamie said that she believes in ghosts and a lot
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: of people in her life also believe in ghosts, And
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: so I looked this up and according to a Gallup
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: poll from twenty twenty five, nearly half of US adults,
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: forty eight percent believe in psychic or spiritual healing. Slightly fewer,
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: thirty nine percent express a belief in ghosts, while between
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: twenty four and twenty nine percent say they believe in
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: other supernatural phenomena such as telepathy, communicating with the dead, astrology.
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: I guess astrology is included in that reincarnation in witches.
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: That's a long list, but like that means thirty nine
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: percent of people believe in ghosts. There was another poll
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: that had it much higher, but I guess like that
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: surprised me, I didn't. I guess I didn't realize so
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: many people believed in ghosts.
• 56:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's maybe when we think about like
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: psychics or what's the motivation for that? Right, A lot
• 56:16
  Speaker 3: of times it's like sadness. It's someone wanting to communicate
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: with someone that has passed that they can't communicate with anymore,
• 56:23
  Speaker 3: or even a pet or something. Right, Yeah, and that
• 56:26
  Speaker 3: is easier for me to understand. But I mean I
• 56:30
  Speaker 3: feel like, I don't know, do you believe in ghosts?
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: I don't think I do. I know a lot of
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: people that do, and I think I knew a lot
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: more people that believed in ghost when I lived in
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: Oklahoma than in LA. And it's also maybe like a
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: regional thing. I mean, I think people believe everywhere. So
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: I never grew up believing in ghosts, but I grew
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: up really religiously, and so it was like we didn't
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: believe in ghosts, but there was a belief in the supernatural.
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: But if I had been in that house and experiencing
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: those things as a child, I would have thought those
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: were like demons. So in my growing up, it was
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: like there's either angels who are like they work for God,
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: or there's demons they work for the devil. So it's
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: like very like black and white, good and evil. Yeah,
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: but no, there was like scary stories of people waking
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: up and talking about how there was like a demon
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: on the end of their bed and I'm terrifying.
• 57:23
  Speaker 3: Oh, oh my gosh, that is that is so terrifying.
• 57:27
  Speaker 3: Did you ever as a kid feel like you were
• 57:32
  Speaker 3: in the midst of a demon?
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: No, I never saw anything like that, but I was
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: scared about it. You know, it was scary to me.
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: And then I think later in my life, I was like,
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: I don't believe any of this. This is all like,
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: you know, I don't believe in demons and angels anything
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: definitely not ghosts. And then I think now I'm sort
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: of like more at a place where I'm just more
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: okay to know that I don't know everything.
• 57:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I love that. I think for me, I grew
• 57:59
  Speaker 3: up in a household that had zero religion, which is
• 58:03
  Speaker 3: you know, fine by me. It was like, I feel
• 58:05
  Speaker 3: like I've had a really good upbringing, and I grew
• 58:09
  Speaker 3: up around people who were members of different faiths and
• 58:13
  Speaker 3: that was also fine. But yeah, I didn't have any
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: sort of belief in anything supernatural ever, or paranormal or
• 58:19
  Speaker 3: however you want to explain it. But you know, I
• 58:21
  Speaker 3: think like everybody else. When you experience the death of
• 58:25
  Speaker 3: someone close to you, like the finality of that makes
• 58:28
  Speaker 3: you wonder. You're like, could it be, Like could it
• 58:31
  Speaker 3: be that I'm never going to see that person again,
• 58:34
  Speaker 3: talk to that person again, And that becomes just almost
• 58:38
  Speaker 3: impossible to reconcile. And so you know, I think I'm
• 58:42
  Speaker 3: probably closer to where you are. I don't know what,
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: I don't know, and there's answers that we're just not
• 58:49
  Speaker 3: going to get and I'm okay with that.
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it is a nice idea to think
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: that you would be haunted by someone that you love
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: who's passed away. Yeah, that's a better haunting.
• 58:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good haunting. Oh yeah, Like if my
• 59:00
  Speaker 3: light flickers, I'll just be like, oh, that's Bunker. Yeah,
• 59:03
  Speaker 3: that's bunker. Ip Bunker a great dog, I know. And
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: like I do like the idea of that. And there's
• 59:10
  Speaker 3: a lot of like strange occurrences in the world and
• 59:13
  Speaker 3: a lot of things that you're like, how could it
• 59:15
  Speaker 3: be that this little thing that happened has resulted in
• 59:18
  Speaker 3: all of this or whatever? And I think that leaves
• 59:21
  Speaker 3: my mind like open to all ideas about it. But
• 59:25
  Speaker 3: I've never experienced what I felt like was a ghost,
• 59:29
  Speaker 3: but I don't think I would rule it out.
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've definitely been in old, old houses that have
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: a creepy vibe. Yeah, but I don't think I I mean,
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: I've for sure never experienced anything like a ghost. There's
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: part of me that thinks the moment you start believing
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: in these things is the moment you start seeing them totally.
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: You know, I don't know, the brain works in mysterious ways.
• 59:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like you see people how you want to
• 59:53
  Speaker 3: see them. You see ghosts if you want.
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: To see them. Yeah, And so I'm like, I don't
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: believe in them, and I think that and they won't
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: bother me.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 3: I mean, also, just like the work that we do,
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 3: and maybe just the content I would consume anyway, I
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 3: have bigger problems, like serial killers.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: To worry about scarier things.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 3: But you know, this haunted house story, I still felt
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 3: like was so compelling because you know, this was someone's
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 3: true experience, and as we get into the story and
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 3: learn about it, like you really see their reaction was
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 3: the result of feeling like, Okay, we tried to write
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 3: this off, but we can't write it off as just
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 3: an old house making weird sounds anymore. And yeah, I
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 3: could totally get behind that. Yeah, I thought I was interesting.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 3: And then the sort of psychological terror that comes from
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 3: that that Jamie talked about of experiencing these events. The
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 3: house is haunted and this is scaring her, scaring her children,
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 3: and then that affects her everyday life, like they're sleeping
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 3: in her bed. There's sleep disruption. It's stressful. This idea
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 3: of being trapped in a house that scares you that
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 3: you can't get out of is a real life nightmare.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: Totally.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I had one. I wouldn't consider this like
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 3: a ghost encounter, but how a strange thing happen When
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 3: I was in I would have been in seventh grade,
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: my grandmother passed away. And I remember it was pie
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 3: day because we were all supposed to bring these pies
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 3: to school at fourteenth. Yeah, yes, my fourteenth and I
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 3: had a horse show that coming weekend and my grandmother
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 3: was going to come up and go to this show.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 3: She passed in her sleep peacefully, So of course we
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 3: drive down to where she lived, which was like five
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 3: hours from where we lived, and so we get to
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 3: the house and she passed peacefully. She was older. There
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 3: was nothing, you know, strange about it, even though it
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 3: was sad. So we ended up actually staying at the
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 3: house that night and we were all going to start
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 3: packing up her stuff the next day.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: It was a pretty small house.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 3: It wasn't like a big endeavor. And I had this
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 3: dream and my grandma is not super physically affectionate. She
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 3: was like a loving, wonderful grandma, but she wasn't like
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 3: a big on hugs. And in my dream, we were
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 3: standing in her kitchen in her house that we were at,
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 3: and she just gave me a hug. And I don't
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 3: remember if any like, if we spoke at all, but
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 3: it was like a very nice moment. It was like
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 3: morning light in the kitchen and there were boxes in
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 3: the kitchen and they were stacked in this really specific way.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 3: And so I woke up and I kind of, you
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 3: know that groggy dream state where you're like, oh, that
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 3: was nice. I guess, like who knows what that is,
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 3: but that was nice.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 3: Well, so I go into the kitchen later that day
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 3: in the boxes are now in the kitchen, stacked in
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 3: the exact way that they were in my dream.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: And they hadn't been the day before, no.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 3: Because we had just started packing that morning when everyone
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 3: woke up.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's wild. It was really wild. And I've never
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 3: had anything like that before or since. But yeah, whether
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 3: it was just like my brain making me feel better
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 3: or something else, like.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: I was glad it. Yeah, that's really nice. Yeah. I
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: do feel like when we have loved ones pass away,
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: there's more sort of unexplainable stuff that happens around that time.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: Like when I've had people that I love pass away,
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: I think that I see them a lot, like, oh,
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: I'll see them in a crowd and stuff, or like
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: have dreams about them, and I don't know, it's interesting
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: that that happens at that time.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like either you're just seeing things in a
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 3: new way because you're kind of looking or maybe it's
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 3: the universe being like it's okay, yeah, okay, Yeah, that's sweet.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So we have a little bit of history of
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: Lamar that you found. We tried to look into the
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: history of Jamie's house. You know. In the interview, she
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: talked about how it's an old house. It was built
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: potentially in the early eighteen hundreds, maybe even in the
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: late seventeen hundreds, and there were all these rumors about
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: there had been maybe a jail there, a stage coach stop. Yeah,
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: it was a stage coach stop.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 3: It was like where you you would you know, if
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 3: you were traveling through town, you would stop there.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but we weren't able to find anything. Yeah, nothing
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: on her specific home. But Lamar, Arkansas, like much of
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: our country, especially the South, has a lot of history
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: that is quite sad. So before Lamar Arkansas became Lamar Arkansas,
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: it was inhabited by indigenous people, and those indigenous people
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: were part of what is now a federally recognized tribe,
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: the Caddo Nation. There were populations of Caddo people all
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: along the Southeastern states, including Arkansas, Oklahoma, I think some
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: up into Tennessee maybe. So in the early eighteen hundreds,
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: white settlers reached what is now Lamar and pushed a
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: lot of these Catto people, almost all of them actually
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: to reservations in Texas, which you know, is an awful
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: thing that occurred in our nation's history. So Lamar is
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: actually named after a Confederate officer. All so, I did
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: learn through this process that Arkansas actually supplied more troops
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: to the Union Army than any other state except Tennessee,
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: and no Confederate battles took place in Lamar, but it
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: was named after this Confederate officer, and there are many
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: cemeteries around Johnson County and Lamar that people say there's
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: lots of Confederate soldiers buried there. So as far as
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: Jamie's actual house, I did find something that was really
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: close in location to where she lived, which is that
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: in eighteen forty four, Thomas Stevenson Drew was elected governor
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: of Arkansas and his plantation in Johnson County was first
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: called Stream of Cabins because of the many homes he
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: built for his slaves, and later it was called Cabin Creek,
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: which of course is the name of the street that
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: Jamie's house was on. So this is obviously a really
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: dark part of their history, and I don't don't know
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: that it has any correlation to Jamie's story, but for
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: whatever it's worth to anyone who's thinking, like, well, what was.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 3: The history of the area, that's what we could find.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well thanks for looking into that.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: So if you love stories about stuff that's scary or
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: maybe hard to explain, you can check out Jamie's podcast,
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: The Unexplained Archives, where she and her co host Jennifer
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: discuss everything from the paranormal to aliens. Thanks for listening.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: We'll be back next week.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 3: If you have a story for us, we would love
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 3: to hear it. Our email is The Knife at exactlyrightmedia
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 3: dot com, or you can follow us on Instagram at
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 3: the Knife Podcast or a Blue Sky at the Knife Podcast.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: This has been an Exactly Right production hosted and produced
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: by me Hannah Smith and me paytia Ety.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 3: Our producers are Tom Bryfogel and Alexis Samarosi.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: This episode was mixed by Tom Bryfogel. Our associate producer
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: is Christina Chamberlain. Our theme music is by Birds in
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: the Airport
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 3: Artwork five vansa Lilac executive produced by Karen Kilgaret, Georgia
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 3: Hardstark and Danielle Kramer.