Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Mark McManus about his choice of Into the Dalek

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Talks to Mark McManus about his choice of Into the Dalek · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:40
  Welcome back to a hamster with a blunt.
• 0:42
  Penknife the Doctor Who commentary podcast a slightly
• 0:47
  delayed recording with the lovely moment manners from
• 0:52
  trak-1. Say hello Mark.
• 0:54
  Hello. Thanks very much for having me
• 0:55
  back that we were going to record this last week.
• 0:58
  One way we were. Yes, sorry about that.
• 1:01
  I had to bail at the last minute.
• 1:02
  But yeah, here now for Easter special recording.
• 1:06
  I thought my opinions about the doctor's wife was so I'm sorry.
• 1:11
  Yeah, I cannot talk to this man anymore.
• 1:15
  It's taking me a week to come down from that.
• 1:19
  We were in absolute a cold world way.
• 1:22
  Yeah, absolutely. It's a strong cult classic as
• 1:24
  far as I'm concerned. If you know, it's every one of
• 1:26
  these that we've done. Oh no, we did deep breath and I
• 1:29
  was not at all convinced until the end and then I was yeah,
• 1:33
  that's deep breath. Absolutely love as well.
• 1:36
  And fittingly we are doing the The continuation from deep
• 1:41
  breath there, this week. And next week, we're doing robot
• 1:44
  show. Now, I've already done that,
• 1:45
  while it's what, I've got a question for you.
• 1:50
  I'm about the Twelfth Doctor because I know you were very
• 1:55
  keen on the first three, Steven Moffat Seasons that you really
• 2:00
  like Smith is the doctor. I mean, what's wrong with you?
• 2:04
  Honestly? That's pretty.
• 2:07
  But I also know that, The Twelfth Doctor is your favorite.
• 2:11
  Doctor of all is that right? As the new series?
• 2:16
  Yeah. He's my favorite 21st century
• 2:18
  doctor. Yeah.
• 2:19
  Just just immediately, just clicked with me.
• 2:22
  Thighs, performances. Fantastic, I love the way it
• 2:24
  evolved over the three years. But I mean, even by even before
• 2:27
  I knew where it was going, by series 10.
• 2:30
  Yeah, I really loved him. I think it was just such a nice
• 2:33
  change after the tenant and Matt Smith, and it really felt too.
• 2:39
  Me like his harking, back to the to the classic doctors as well,
• 2:42
  where they could be a bit grumpy.
• 2:44
  And they weren't as manic as as you know, we've got used to buy
• 2:48
  that stage. Do you think that was how the
• 2:53
  general audience felt as well? It's don't think so no.
• 3:00
  But my philosophy is always kind of not to worry about that.
• 3:04
  I know there's a lot of fans online who worry about ratings
• 3:06
  and the perception and the Casual viewer.
• 3:09
  Even things like that, but I think that's so far out of my
• 3:12
  control that I don't really worry about, you know, people
• 3:16
  say how they shouldn't have made a reference to the 70s because
• 3:19
  it will go over the heads of the of casual viewers on new fans
• 3:22
  and things. And I think, well, well, so what
• 3:24
  like, which loads of American TV and there's a bunch of cultural
• 3:28
  references in it that I totally go of my head and I don't
• 3:30
  understand, it doesn't put me off watching things and it's the
• 3:35
  doctors the only sort of science fiction series where people kind
• 3:37
  of worried about that stuff, you know.
• 3:39
  Like if you watch Game of Thrones as there isn't even a
• 3:41
  previously on Game of Thrones is that they just stay just
• 3:44
  launched straight into it and you expect you to pay attention,
• 3:47
  but I don't know why and it's a slightly not the question you're
• 3:50
  asking, but I don't know why people don't expect Doctor Who
• 3:53
  fans to pay attention in a way that they would pay attention
• 3:56
  to, you know, stuff like like Game of Thrones.
• 4:00
  But yeah, in terms of, you know, the reaction to the doctor, I
• 4:04
  think, you know, some people might like it but plenty of
• 4:08
  people did. I think we talked about when we
• 4:10
  did a deep breath about the lady that, you know, that that
• 4:16
  created a new fan and he was just going out of my head she's
• 4:20
  at Cal bear created thing on Twitter.
• 4:21
  That does all the amazing tool model but in McKinsey.
• 4:26
  Yes yes. So yeah and I'm just just
• 4:29
  complete. So tied.
• 4:30
  Yeah. Minima Kenzie that, you know,
• 4:31
  deep breath turned her into a fan and what an amazing.
• 4:34
  In part, fandom she is with those incredible models and
• 4:36
  artwork and things like that. So yeah, as I think, as many
• 4:38
  people must have enjoyed Peter, Capaldi's performance as didn't.
• 4:43
  And, you know, I do think that you Doctor should be a contrast
• 4:46
  to the one reaction against, maybe the ones that went before.
• 4:50
  I was just fucking relieved that Matt Smith had gone.
• 4:54
  I was taking anyone. I like, I know, I absolutely
• 4:58
  accept that. That is my opinion and it is a
• 5:02
  real opinion at that. I've I do believe there's a
• 5:05
  small group of us, you know, like a little Colt, but meet up
• 5:07
  every now and again, pictures of his face.
• 5:10
  But no. Did you?
• 5:13
  Because I wasn't ready for Matt Smith to leave.
• 5:15
  I felt like his final season. He was still doing new and
• 5:18
  interesting things in a way that That by the time tenant, when I
• 5:22
  was kind of ready for him to leave feel like he was doing a
• 5:25
  lot of his stick that the, you know, the we'd already seen
• 5:30
  where was it felt to me like, Matt Smith was still putting new
• 5:33
  spins on it and interesting, new line, deliveries.
• 5:36
  And that kind of thing. I said, I think we've Tenon, I
• 5:39
  thought he peaked at 4 and then the specials that just felt
• 5:43
  like, it's all spinning wheels until he was going, when I just
• 5:47
  think he came out of the park, so strong in that first year.
• 5:52
  I'm comes seven what I always say like he's was reduced like a
• 5:57
  series of quirks and I don't think that's entirely true
• 6:00
  because Matt Smith's too good an actor for that to be the case.
• 6:03
  But I think maybe there was a little bit of laziness in the
• 6:05
  rising and they weren't doing. As interesting things Capaldi
• 6:10
  came along and talk about shot of adrenaline.
• 6:13
  I'll having anyone was prepared for this acerbic, you know,
• 6:16
  stubborn, nasty occasionally, you know unlikable.
• 6:21
  People still funny, but acidic doctor after.
• 6:28
  After Tenon. And after Matt Smith, who seems
• 6:31
  so tailored to appeal to sort of a general audience suddenly
• 6:36
  Along Comes calling back. I'm sorry, Peter Capaldi, and,
• 6:41
  and everyone's a bit sort of. Well, what the hell is this?
• 6:45
  I like, I like the shock of it. I like the fact that it's a bit
• 6:49
  dangerous game for Muffet to play.
• 6:52
  It's not the easy route and that's interesting.
• 6:56
  Yeah, at the time, I remember thinking was a deliberate thing
• 6:59
  because this was the start of a new regeneration cycle.
• 7:03
  So, you know, Matt Smith having been technically the 13th Doctor
• 7:07
  when you count the War Doctor and the vanity 10th doctor, that
• 7:12
  it was a deliberate, move to take him back to more in the
• 7:15
  mold of the first doctor where, you know, he wasn't the sort of,
• 7:19
  you know, cuddly and gregarious and stuff in the complete
• 7:22
  history. They talk about that.
• 7:26
  Steven Moffat indicated to his co-writer fill for doesn't it
• 7:33
  just? Yeah it's my my blank again
• 7:35
  they're the 12th. Doctor would be more akin to to
• 7:40
  the remote almost accessor. Big elements of the Early
• 7:43
  Adventures of the fourth doctor as played by Tom Baker and I
• 7:47
  think this story deserve a moment or two as well.
• 7:50
  That reminds me of Tom Baker who again as you think of as being
• 7:55
  quite Looking stuff. But he does have some, some dark
• 7:58
  moments in a serving moments, doesn't he?
• 8:01
  Another massive Improvement to this CR pumps?
• 8:05
  We're going to the episode at some point but you know, we've
• 8:07
  only got 45 minutes to talk about it.
• 8:08
  So I think we need to do a bit groundwork before we go in
• 8:11
  because there's a lot, the episode about the episode to
• 8:14
  talk about as well. Definitely, but one thing I
• 8:17
  think really works and serious right now, serious, a is in my
• 8:21
  top 5 new series seasons. It's my favorite Moffat season,
• 8:27
  and the people think I'm crazy. So, I heart says, I'm bloody
• 8:30
  contrary because it ain't serious, quite the serious
• 8:32
  fires, got that dreary tolerance, who power and victory
• 8:35
  of the Daleks in it, you know, whereas, I think seriously is
• 8:38
  pretty much one Banger after another on the whole, I agree
• 8:43
  pieces and I think as well, it's got a visual palette to it.
• 8:46
  It's got a it's got a really interesting look.
• 8:51
  And there was a massive injection of horror into the
• 8:54
  series again as well, and pushed away.
• 8:56
  A from the fantasy and back into scaring the Little Nippers which
• 9:00
  are always love for Doctor Who. But one thing it really got
• 9:03
  right for me. And it's the only time it went
• 9:06
  right for me was our are they re like Lauren Series 7?
• 9:11
  BR, no, you don't mind, but she was a bit sort of generic
• 9:15
  companion and that was deliberate because of she was
• 9:19
  the impossible girl. And, you know, we weren't really
• 9:21
  supposed to pin her down or know she was I knowing she was
• 9:26
  supposed to leave. Wasn't she in Last Christmas I
• 9:29
  believe? Originally, I think of her that.
• 9:32
  Yeah. And then Jenna Coleman said
• 9:34
  Steven Moffat, now I'm not ready to go.
• 9:36
  Can I get? And I think you can kind of tell
• 9:37
  because she shoehorned into a fair few episodes.
• 9:39
  In series 9, I am still sort of the latter half, where she's
• 9:44
  getting a lot to do again and focus on her, and she's written
• 9:47
  out. But then I I think there's a
• 9:50
  really condensed character all between the doctor and the
• 9:53
  Distant in a and it's not the lovey-dovey character Arc of the
• 9:58
  Tenon Rose or you know, I'll never be as good as the last one
• 10:03
  as 10 and Martha or just besties like 10 and Donna and it isn't
• 10:09
  the sort of family Dynamic of all the stuff that happened in
• 10:12
  11th doctor. It's a really interesting
• 10:15
  slightly toxic occasionally. Bumpy road between the 12 doctor
• 10:22
  and Clara. Absolutely.
• 10:24
  Riveted. As it seems, especially when you
• 10:27
  get to the sort of, mummy on the Orient Express, that would kill
• 10:31
  the moon, Flatline part of the season.
• 10:34
  And I was not sure we've had character work this.
• 10:37
  Well, acted in the series today, you know?
• 10:41
  Like it was, it was so good. I work.
• 10:43
  What are your thoughts on Clara this year?
• 10:46
  Yeah, II mean, I did like right from the off.
• 10:50
  I think. In series 7 B, I always felt she
• 10:53
  was a sarah-jane type companion and there was a, there was a
• 10:56
  number of Beats that were similar to Sarah Jane, where
• 11:00
  does their camera which story is now, but she has a similar
• 11:03
  conversation about. Well, what if we don't at least
• 11:05
  in cold, wasn't it shows what? You know what?
• 11:06
  If we don't save the, you know, if you don't kind of beat the
• 11:11
  ice, we're here because we know in the future that there wasn't
• 11:13
  a nuclear war sort of thing. Which is like the bit in terms
• 11:16
  of Mars and then I think she has a similar conversation about how
• 11:20
  can she understand, you know, the different languages and I've
• 11:23
  been called War as well actually.
• 11:24
  But yeah, it's a direct link there between the young Festa,
• 11:28
  is called war and / is Miles. Yes.
• 11:31
  Yeah, I think in terms of in terms of Clarence indicate same
• 11:36
  character pizzas. So Jane anyway.
• 11:38
  Which so yeah. And then, yes.
• 11:41
  But yeah. She's much more like say fleshed
• 11:43
  out and a really, really interesting character across
• 11:45
  This series and then ya buy it by the end of it.
• 11:48
  It's, you know, it's very brutal.
• 11:50
  What happens to isn't it with with Danny pink and everything.
• 11:55
  Well, Danny pink who is introducing this episode and
• 11:58
  we'll meet him in a bit in a very old subplot that has no
• 12:01
  connection at all. So the episode that we watch it,
• 12:04
  it's okay. It is a little bit that kind of
• 12:06
  rom-com stuff with anything could start is, is not totally
• 12:10
  in keeping with the rest of the episode is a bit.
• 12:12
  That's when I think he's at his most likable, you know, and
• 12:15
  those seem Seems you know what's called listen, where she's
• 12:18
  trying to have dinner with him and then the space man walks in.
• 12:20
  Yeah, absolutely. Various, but she really do and I
• 12:25
  feel like Jenna Coleman suddenly a lot more comfortable as well.
• 12:29
  Like, I've I feel there's a massive difference between how
• 12:32
  she's characterized in 7B to, and then you, and I talked about
• 12:37
  it in deep breath, where suddenly, she's having prolonged
• 12:42
  character scenes with vastra and the doctor in the Run, you know,
• 12:46
  and she's being labeled as like a control freak and all of this
• 12:50
  stuff. Then, I just so much too much
• 12:54
  easier to grasp as a character, and she's slightly flawed in
• 12:59
  that kind of Rose Way. Yeah, yeah.
• 13:02
  Always likable in that roadway. And so, that's a person that I
• 13:05
  can believe in. There was always the distance in
• 13:08
  27 be there because the doctor was trying to figure out.
• 13:11
  Wasn't he? What?
• 13:12
  How he kept meeting her and thinking there was more to her
• 13:15
  and, you know, the way in Heidi takes it to me that psychic and
• 13:18
  things like that. So they say, I in terms of her
• 13:21
  being more comfortable in series, a I think, you know,
• 13:23
  they he now knows who she is and that she's not a threat or a
• 13:27
  trap or anything like that. So it's very old scenes in the
• 13:30
  rings of akhaten where it goes back to her childhood and he's
• 13:33
  sitting there on the swing watching her.
• 13:34
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. That is a good idea, what?
• 13:39
  Okay, I'm gonna ask you one more question, then we're going to
• 13:42
  the episode and that is, what do you think of the Waters of Mars?
• 13:48
  Yeah, quite I think it's the best of those specials.
• 13:51
  Yes. That I don't massively enjoy
• 13:56
  those specials but I think that's that's easily the best of
• 13:58
  them as I think, I think as a collaboration I think what was
• 14:03
  Mars because that's feel foreign Rusty Day, this is that's right.
• 14:06
  Yeah, Steven Moffat, I think what's most is a little bit
• 14:10
  better than this for me because it's got one, it's got one of
• 14:13
  those wonderful things that I do bringing in all that big
• 14:16
  Ensemble casts on a base. And that's all pick them off.
• 14:19
  One by one and I love the I love that as traditional doctor, but
• 14:23
  I do but done particularly well with phenomenal, G Harper
• 14:27
  Direction. But as I S like much we're off
• 14:31
  coffee landfill for did a lot of the, into the Dalek stuff and
• 14:36
  Moffitt did the subplot which ties into the season.
• 14:40
  I think. I mean, if you read about this,
• 14:42
  do you know how much Moffitt was involved in this?
• 14:44
  Yes. Women, the complete history
• 14:46
  explains that. That Moffat came up with this
• 14:48
  idea of being shrunk and put into a Dalek They were firing
• 14:52
  around ideas for those dribblers PC games that came they came out
• 14:57
  the early 11th, Doctor era you could download them there was
• 15:00
  with city of the Daleks and there was one about the
• 15:02
  Gunpowder Plot. Oh yeah.
• 15:05
  Oh yeah. The free to download and they
• 15:07
  were firing ideas about and he said well what about one way
• 15:10
  they get shrunk and going to a Dalek and I went oh yeah that's
• 15:12
  a great idea. Where he went no wait I want to
• 15:14
  keep that for an episode. The immediately having said it
• 15:17
  realized what a good kind of concept it was.
• 15:20
  So he had that kind of He's back pocket and then when they wanted
• 15:24
  to do the tall, stalks his first, Dalek story thought, oh
• 15:26
  yeah that's a good one to do so he gave that I think concept to
• 15:29
  fill for to start working on. So yeah the the premise is is
• 15:34
  his but yeah I think then fill for can do you know, maybe wrote
• 15:37
  the early drafts of a lot of people in this podcast say that
• 15:41
  they don't really think moffatt's all that interested in
• 15:44
  the Daleks like, you know, as they're typically written, you
• 15:48
  know, sort of Nazi, ask Force going around.
• 15:51
  Sterilizing the universe. So what it tries to do every
• 15:55
  time is do something a bit interesting with the victory of
• 15:57
  the Daleks, you know, they're the good guys in inverted
• 16:00
  commas, or, you know, those weird bubble bath, Daleks,
• 16:03
  whatever that was all about. But it was trying to do
• 16:05
  something new with them. Yes.
• 16:07
  That Asylum of the Daleks. I mean as a concept that's
• 16:11
  pretty rare. You love that one.
• 16:15
  I do I do. Yeah, that's alright, we'll
• 16:17
  talk. Yeah, yeah.
• 16:19
  I think because you've seen them, you know, in Invade so
• 16:22
  many times and you know, the other, you know, it's like the
• 16:26
  whole thing isn't about Terry Nation.
• 16:27
  When they said, when he gave the script to generate the initial
• 16:31
  Genesis of the Daleks before a Genesis Daleks, he handed it
• 16:34
  over to Terrance dicks and very light and they said it's a good
• 16:38
  script but it's the same one that you saw this last year, you
• 16:40
  know? So yeah you kind of see them in
• 16:43
  similar situations a lot. I like the stories where they
• 16:45
  doing something different like revelation of the Daleks you
• 16:47
  know when davros is presented with the great healer.
• 16:51
  Yeah. That's just great.
• 16:52
  So yeah. I applaud doing anything
• 16:54
  different with them. And yeah, those those stories
• 16:57
  that you just mentioned. I really liked all of them and I
• 17:00
  lose this is this, the last Dalek story did, I know Rusty
• 17:04
  appears again in twice upon a time?
• 17:05
  It's all know, of course, causes Magician's Apprentice and the
• 17:10
  Witch's familiar. I still feel as more of a davros
• 17:12
  story that is a doll is completely different.
• 17:17
  And this I think is the biggest Divergence of all, let's play.
• 17:21
  Honey, I Shrunk the humans and off they popped your darling.
• 17:26
  And in terms of like a cinematic idea, for a doctor who story,
• 17:31
  this might be one of the biggest.
• 17:33
  Yeah, that's it. And they got a movie director
• 17:37
  and of course, to director. Boy, are we going to talk about
• 17:41
  how he directed this? Well, okay, fine.
• 17:43
  I've kept us talking for 20 minutes.
• 17:45
  We probably should go watch this episode.
• 17:47
  Are you ready for this? Ready?
• 17:50
  Okay, why don't you count has ended?
• 17:55
  Okay? Three, two, one.
• 17:59
  I'll get briefed myself up the sound on.
• 18:03
  I mean, we haven't seen too much of this in Doctor Who this is
• 18:05
  like a proper Star Wars, you know, kind of ships flying
• 18:11
  through space. You know, we've seen seen very
• 18:13
  little that throughout the new series.
• 18:15
  I think, you know, even see Jack's face you don't you in
• 18:19
  World War 3, none at World War 3?
• 18:22
  What's it called? The Empty child and the doctor
• 18:24
  dances. You see, so little of it,
• 18:26
  whereas this is properly, this is like a scene from Star Wars
• 18:30
  where the Star Destroyer is hunting down the Millennium
• 18:33
  Falcon or something. It's this huge ship chasing, a
• 18:36
  tiny one to an asteroid belt and the the shots ringing out its I
• 18:40
  think it looks absolutely gorgeous.
• 18:41
  Ice white. One of not a Star Wars
• 18:43
  influences in this side. Does he loads definitely?
• 18:47
  Yeah, yeah. So this is what set During the
• 18:51
  period, where the Daleks are just raging war on the entire
• 18:55
  galaxy yet. So I'll named period of time.
• 18:59
  Yeah, but it's the time War dialects, isn't it?
• 19:01
  So, I don't think it's the same, sort of, you know, that you'd
• 19:04
  see in death to the Daleks or anything like that or planet of
• 19:06
  the Daleks. I think this is, these are new.
• 19:09
  These Time world Alex who, you know, spreading out, and
• 19:12
  conquering as well. Who knows what they changed
• 19:14
  during their during that time, you know, this is sequence here
• 19:18
  right where she wakes up in the Tardis and you got that really
• 19:22
  kind of menacing Murray Gold music playing and Peter Capaldi
• 19:27
  behaving in a very sort of weird way here.
• 19:30
  Yeah. This when this first was on, I
• 19:32
  absolutely love this. See another have I like this guy
• 19:36
  but I can't take my eyes off him.
• 19:38
  Yeah, and it is that thing of being, you know, a bit, let you
• 19:41
  know, the first doctor for the first few stories where they
• 19:43
  don't know if they can trust him.
• 19:45
  Well, the only and they can't trust him because he takes them
• 19:47
  to the, to the Dalek City doesn't he?
• 19:49
  And you know, he's he is a bit mysterious and aloof and
• 19:52
  everything while I think, what is this is, the level of man
• 19:55
  pain are like, is him sort of sitting on a step and saying, no
• 19:59
  Clara. Am I a good man?
• 20:02
  Like that's enough while some we get to help Ben and he's raging
• 20:05
  against the whole universe, you know?
• 20:07
  I'm like art. A bit much now.
• 20:09
  Okay, when it, when I re-watched, this occurred to me.
• 20:14
  So when you get the white flash when he was materialized around
• 20:19
  Journey blue. And I never thought this before.
• 20:22
  No, watch this story, you get the white flash when the
• 20:25
  soldiers saved or not saved, but when she dies later on and
• 20:29
  appears in Missy's realm. Yeah, which is obviously a
• 20:34
  visual clue. That is the same technology
• 20:36
  that's collecting people but obviously at this stage, no idea
• 20:41
  who Missy is, or anything like that.
• 20:43
  So it only on re watches that that makes sense.
• 20:45
  So it's quite a nice. Yeah.
• 20:48
  But I just believe, I wonder you got a podcast.
• 20:53
  I was just watching that Tardis set there, you know, there's so
• 20:55
  much to look at. There's a lights.
• 20:57
  Coming up the floor, smoke everywhere, bookcases all, I
• 21:01
  don't know where my goes through first.
• 21:03
  It's just all over the place. It's a great beautiful, isn't
• 21:06
  it? Yeah, I would love to have
• 21:08
  visited that. I think the last time I went to
• 21:09
  the doctor experience, you know, when they're doing the tour's,
• 21:12
  but it was closed to that type of filming or something like
• 21:15
  that. I would have loved to seen in
• 21:16
  real life. Very angry, that experience, you
• 21:19
  know, all these kids that the console Let the adults for I got
• 21:22
  away. You bloody kids.
• 21:23
  I want to touch the button for the last time.
• 21:27
  Oh sorry. Go on the last time I went it
• 21:29
  was on a work day. I was on holiday and we went
• 21:31
  down, there's no kids there. So the poor people that were the
• 21:35
  you know the poor guides and stuff.
• 21:38
  We're trying to get people engaged and pressing the buttons
• 21:40
  and loads of like adults are just really embarrassed and it's
• 21:43
  like looking at their feet you should have got you involved
• 21:50
  now. This is that fella from spiced,
• 21:52
  isn't it? Michael Smiley is that is like I
• 21:57
  think it is. Yeah.
• 21:57
  Michael Smiley is framing from spaced and yeah, kind of quite a
• 22:03
  few movies by this director, isn't it?
• 22:06
  It's names. Just going out of my head.
• 22:08
  I'm really bad for names today. What the director?
• 22:10
  Yeah. Wheatley, isn't it Ben Wheatley
• 22:14
  and weakly yeah. Yes.
• 22:15
  Yeah. Now I feel I can agree with me.
• 22:17
  I think this is better director than the deep breath, you know?
• 22:20
  I think There's some pasty issues with deep breath, I think
• 22:23
  that some scenes are a bit too long, it holds the camera B, but
• 22:27
  I think this is one of the best directed news.
• 22:31
  So it's what a member at the time Steven Moffat, saying that
• 22:35
  with series 8, they were aiming for longer scenes and a slightly
• 22:39
  slower Pace to only you talking about, you know, sort of clever
• 22:43
  getting the longer scenes with Madame, vastra and everything.
• 22:46
  And that was part of his, you know, want to want to change
• 22:49
  things up a bit, was to make it a bit more.
• 22:51
  More like the Classic Series in K in terms of having longer
• 22:54
  seemed as you saw. Like he's got a bit more of a
• 22:56
  chance to, he's not such a great premise to play with it, he's
• 22:59
  got far more chance to show off, you know.
• 23:02
  Yeah, we're going inside of a Dalek and we're exploring in,
• 23:05
  like, yeah, I mean, we didn't we talk to her about something else
• 23:10
  but the bit where Journey blue come steps out of the TARDIS and
• 23:13
  she says, oh, it's it's smaller on the outside, it is the kind
• 23:18
  of a nice reversal on the yeah. It's much more impressive.
• 23:22
  The other way? I mean, I detect some times with
• 23:29
  in non Moffat episodes that Moffat has, you know, had a pass
• 23:33
  over the dialogue because you know, the way there's a certain
• 23:37
  flavor to moffatt's wit and that's a Moffat yeah, definitely
• 23:42
  definitely, ah yes. So I'm a bit torn with Danny
• 23:46
  pink you know because he's you know, extremely handsome man so
• 23:51
  that's tick but also very boring.
• 23:56
  This is well, your thoughts. Yeah, I do quite like him as a
• 24:04
  character. I think he plays the this sort
• 24:06
  of inner turmoil, especially in this episode where you know the
• 24:09
  kids are asking him about, you know, being in the Army.
• 24:12
  Whether he's killed somebody and then they asked that very
• 24:16
  pertinent question about. If you ever you know killed
• 24:18
  Andre wasn't a soldier and he just does that little kind of
• 24:20
  the tears running down his cheek.
• 24:23
  It's yeah. It's quite interesting.
• 24:25
  He's on a hiding for nothing. When he doesn't want to go into
• 24:28
  the Tardis. Yeah, I want to travel.
• 24:30
  Does he? And as an audience were
• 24:34
  desperate to do that. What is wrong with you?
• 24:36
  Yeah, it doesn't endear him does it.
• 24:39
  Because it seemed like, with this series, they were aiming
• 24:44
  towards recreating the original Tardis line of.
• 24:48
  Don't, they wear, they had two teachers and then I thought
• 24:51
  Courtney was going to join. The Tardis as well.
• 24:54
  So I thought we were gonna have some adventures with two
• 24:55
  teachers and a call. He'll pupil like in a barber
• 25:00
  ensues and then they don't quite go there because cotton is only
• 25:03
  in like 2 episodes, isn't she? And like you say Danny pink just
• 25:07
  says like no want. No part of that.
• 25:10
  Then what we get is in the forest that are nice to teachers
• 25:13
  and our load up. Bloody kids.
• 25:14
  Yeah I'll try mine. That one you know Ivan has been
• 25:18
  underrated episode. Yeah I enjoy it.
• 25:22
  It's just One that you just doesn't hang together if you
• 25:25
  think about it. I mean, they're a lot of them
• 25:27
  don't, but that wasn't in particular, you know, the trees
• 25:29
  would have, you know, kind of broken all the Pavements and you
• 25:33
  know, cause an enormous amount of damage.
• 25:35
  The last time I watched it I felt like it really hit home
• 25:38
  post pandemic where everyone the world changed overnight and
• 25:42
  everybody was stuck in their homes.
• 25:46
  Definitely a different residence.
• 25:47
  Last time I watched it. I never forget.
• 25:48
  I watch that pre-title sequence and the camera goes up out of
• 25:53
  the forest. Nelson's column.
• 25:55
  I went off on the phone to my Roth and I went, this is going
• 25:57
  to be the best episode ever. This looks incredible.
• 26:00
  Hello the only message me it was like I was it all done ask
• 26:03
  right? I want to talk about it, these
• 26:07
  things here, introducing Danny pink, I think I would be a bit
• 26:12
  more unkind In all the seasons but for some reason where the
• 26:17
  focus on me was on character again.
• 26:19
  Aren't what? I first which is I was really
• 26:21
  intrigued as to what was going on here and yeah, I'm going to
• 26:25
  have double standards because I really didn't like all of that.
• 26:28
  Oh Amy Pond wants to stay at home and she wants to go in the
• 26:31
  Tardis. I didn't mind it here, I thought
• 26:34
  okay we're actually we're seeing we're playing with that in a bit
• 26:37
  more depth than we were back then.
• 26:40
  Yeah, cuz it's Steven Moffat. Was that?
• 26:42
  It's the first showrunner to bring?
• 26:45
  That isn't where to bring it in. We're companions aren't full
• 26:49
  time. Living above the Tardis and
• 26:50
  occasionally visiting home that they can have their own lives
• 26:54
  and careers and autonomy and then choose to go on adventures
• 26:59
  when they want to our the doctor calls and says, you know, we're
• 27:01
  going to go to see the dinosaurs on a spaceship or something like
• 27:04
  that. You want to come and yeah, I
• 27:07
  think I kind of makes more sense in the modern era, doesn't it?
• 27:09
  Because You want the characters to have a background or a
• 27:13
  family? Where as you know, they hear the
• 27:17
  classic companions having absolutely nothing that would
• 27:20
  keep them on Earth and just just being able to leave.
• 27:24
  The alternative is to take the family with you like Graham and
• 27:27
  Ryan or Amy and Rory, you know, and that comes with
• 27:30
  complications as well because then you've got that Dynamic and
• 27:33
  dramas playing out during the adventure.
• 27:36
  Oh, it's sort of lose lose its name.
• 27:39
  Yeah. That's it.
• 27:40
  But you get more of a rounded characters because you know
• 27:43
  what? You know what, you know what
• 27:45
  Clara is home. Life is like a relationships are
• 27:49
  work, this is great. Parents coffee cups in the first
• 27:53
  scene and yeah, it's it weeks ago she's had to make our way
• 27:58
  back from Glasgow. We're still doing that Aberdeen
• 28:01
  joke, aren't we? After all these years.
• 28:05
  Well, the thing that I really like about that is he's Glasgow,
• 28:08
  still has police boxes dotted around in the city centre.
• 28:12
  So I quite like the idea that she might have gone to try a few
• 28:15
  of those before she realized and then had to get the train back
• 28:19
  down to call Hill. I've got a slightly facetious
• 28:24
  question for you but then this is house for a blunt penknife.
• 28:29
  Why does Jenna Louise Coleman looks so sexy in red.
• 28:35
  A beautiful womans and shape, but whenever they put her in
• 28:37
  red, she absolutely off the screen.
• 28:40
  She pops, cheers. I'm going to say the yeah, the
• 28:43
  first appearance in Asylum of the Daleks definitely.
• 28:47
  Yes, brings to mind when you mention that.
• 28:49
  But at the how blouses in this one, there's got eyes on it.
• 28:54
  Yeah. Which is a real theme of this
• 28:56
  episode, isn't it? The, you know, the kind of eyes
• 28:58
  being the window to the Soul Thing.
• 29:01
  The the Daleks I is the way that they get into the Lex is like
• 29:05
  literally like the doorway into the soul, then the the
• 29:08
  antibodies that we're going to see inside the Daleks, they look
• 29:11
  like eyes as well, kind of judging the these Interlopers
• 29:15
  into the Dalek and you know the end you've got the doctor
• 29:20
  standing in front of the giant. Dalek I you know kind of sore
• 29:25
  kind of laid bare and slightly better for Oracle.
• 29:29
  You've got the Dalek looking through the doctors eyes and
• 29:33
  once again probably the most most dramatic moment of the
• 29:35
  episode where he's like, I see beauty.
• 29:39
  I see this. I see it together.
• 29:46
  Aw, but yeah, it feels like a theme is a total part.
• 29:50
  We usually, he just walks into a room and open said, Peter
• 29:53
  Capaldi. Yeah, yeah.
• 29:56
  And he just, he occasionally does some some Pertwee sort of
• 29:59
  mannerisms, as well. It does at least face the Raven.
• 30:03
  He does that, you know, a Tresor scratches his his jaw with his
• 30:08
  thumb and I think face revenue does that.
• 30:11
  And the does the, the hand on the back of the neck thing that
• 30:13
  poetry does as well. So quite deliberate tossed upon
• 30:17
  a time. His Buffon is so big.
• 30:19
  He is Project series a voice or slightly taken aback by how
• 30:27
  short hair is because you make me do it.
• 30:30
  Long fingers of up here called. As you can always tell where you
• 30:34
  are, it is period by by the level of Buffon, haircuts.
• 30:40
  Don't know what, though? I think I know a lot of people
• 30:42
  say they prefer, it's crazy. Look, I really liked his look.
• 30:45
  I'm serious. I yeah, I do as well.
• 30:48
  And I like the, like his costume more than the the series 9, the
• 30:54
  quite schlubby, sort of hoodies and jumpers and things.
• 30:58
  I think it's much more doctor without reverently nice crisp,
• 31:01
  white shirt. And, and the black, he's even
• 31:04
  got the Velvet jacket that's only with the red lining as
• 31:08
  well, lipo Away. Joe, I really thought it was.
• 31:11
  The actress is no replays, Journey blue.
• 31:15
  Oh, I don't know. Yeah, that one.
• 31:17
  Yeah. Well one, I think she's terrific
• 31:22
  in this. She gives a really naturalistic
• 31:24
  performers, like, in and out third situation as well.
• 31:27
  And that's how you gotta play. Doctor you go do it for real.
• 31:32
  It's kind of a shame at the end. You know, I thought you would
• 31:34
  have made a terrific Doctor Who companion?
• 31:37
  Yeah. Absolutely.
• 31:40
  She's Zoe Ashton, so we Ashton. I salute you my trouble is we
• 31:46
  can't have to, you know, and I'm going to talk about that bit,
• 31:48
  where she slaps him, because I don't know that bit at all, but
• 31:51
  we can't have two strong female companions.
• 31:55
  Giving the doctor a hard time for our series 8 because I have
• 31:57
  a feeling that I would have gone down.
• 32:00
  Yeah, we supposedly bit like the eighth doctor we live in Helen
• 32:02
  wouldn't it? You did get em.
• 32:05
  They're both kind of very capable.
• 32:09
  You know, kind of experienced companions that.
• 32:12
  Yeah, don't take any crap from him at all.
• 32:15
  Wasn't you? I think we seen this level of
• 32:18
  tension between a doctor and a companion since the sort of mid
• 32:23
  80s that everyone complains about, you know, see if dr.
• 32:26
  And Airy, that sort of thing. But this works better I think
• 32:30
  because it's warmer. And there are moments where they
• 32:34
  work together really well and they smile at each other and
• 32:36
  they joke together. And you get proper emotional
• 32:40
  payoff as well. Hmm, the moments, when they're
• 32:44
  alone are different, aren't they?
• 32:45
  So like the the scene, the Tardis where you ask.
• 32:48
  So if he's a good man, at the end of deep breath.
• 32:51
  He's asking her to, you know, he says, you know, I'm brand new
• 32:54
  kind of thing. And I need your help and then
• 32:57
  it's almost like a front winners of the people around, like, the
• 32:59
  bit there. You know, like, don't be lasagna
• 33:01
  and all that kind of stuff. This thing about the don't hold
• 33:05
  your breath reminded me of a few years ago, I did.
• 33:08
  Scuba diving course. And it's a thing about when
• 33:11
  you're, when you're ascending up through the water, you've got to
• 33:15
  breathe out continuously because the volume of air in your lungs.
• 33:20
  I can't quite remember what is for.
• 33:21
  So you got on, 10 meters, the air takes up half the volume 10
• 33:25
  meters down. Then it does on the surface.
• 33:29
  So, yeah, I think it's 10 meters.
• 33:30
  So, if you, if you were 10 meters down, you held your
• 33:32
  breath, the volume of air in your lungs would double when you
• 33:35
  got to the surface is. So you can cause damage.
• 33:38
  So you got to breathe out as you as you ascend through the water
• 33:41
  and that's that kind of reminds me of that one.
• 33:44
  It's not about shrinking and you've got a, you've got to keep
• 33:45
  breathing. So it kind of makes sense in
• 33:47
  that sense because, you know, with the are shrink, as well as
• 33:51
  your as your body cannot are not claustrophobic.
• 33:55
  So the thought doing that dive in, fills me with horror being
• 33:59
  in school. Well, Osuna going up the water
• 34:02
  and she not love how this makes you think of Bob Baker and Dave,
• 34:06
  Martin and the invisible enemy shrinking Peter and put him
• 34:09
  inside things. Definitely.
• 34:12
  And I don't mean the complete really talk about Phil.
• 34:14
  Ford is very keen you know not to repeat any of the kind of the
• 34:18
  Beats of that story to make it its own thing.
• 34:21
  I think there is a few in here somewhere this sequence here,
• 34:25
  this this very trippy sort of avant-garde sequence as they're
• 34:29
  going there's a sequence just like that invisible enemy and
• 34:32
  later on when they're attacked by those things are now
• 34:35
  immediately special effects of come on a bit.
• 34:38
  But they're attacked by those golf balls in It's worth to me.
• 34:42
  Yeah, that is a bit. There's a it's like the test
• 34:45
  selector as well. Isn't.
• 34:46
  It's got those, the idea of the antibodies that that they keep
• 34:50
  it safe. Well, the and this here where
• 34:52
  they're sort of coming through this circular Corridor looks
• 34:54
  very like when you first go into the Tesla to remember there was
• 34:58
  corridors like this. Yes, yeah, that was.
• 35:01
  Yeah, you know, if this was an escape room or something like
• 35:04
  that. That's exactly what this would
• 35:05
  look like, as well. That would be great.
• 35:08
  Wouldn't it in terms like practical sets?
• 35:12
  This is a toughie to pull off because they don't often.
• 35:15
  They use a lot of, you know, they're gone location a lot and
• 35:19
  they using CGI, but they don't always build a lot of practical
• 35:23
  sets where they had to do it for this one.
• 35:26
  Yeah, yeah, the corridors and stuff Aurora practical, aren't
• 35:30
  they? And then the kind of the goo
• 35:32
  tank that we're going to see very shortly.
• 35:35
  The one of the biggest problems I had when this This has been a
• 35:38
  grower for me. I think, when I first watched
• 35:40
  this, I reviewed, if my site I gave a like, a 60, I still liked
• 35:43
  it. But I had a lot of reservations
• 35:45
  and I think my biggest reservation was I found the sort
• 35:50
  of the fun Kiddush idea of shrinking them down inside the
• 35:54
  Dalek bombs, a bit jarring lie against the thought of dark
• 36:01
  psychological angle that the show was taking actually now my
• 36:05
  watching, maybe I've just grown up a little bit.
• 36:07
  I thought they complement each other really well.
• 36:11
  Yeah. Yeah, I think so.
• 36:15
  It's I think it's so good. Just at the shares DNA, as well
• 36:23
  with the first, Dalek story of the of the rebooted series
• 36:26
  doesn't it? There's quite a lot of Rob,
• 36:28
  Sherman's thing in there of having, although see some more
• 36:30
  dialects at the end. It's mainly about this one
• 36:32
  Dalek, and making it scary and Powerful again.
• 36:39
  Look like aliens or something. This is well, isn't it by having
• 36:42
  a, you know, kind of bunch of soldiers inside?
• 36:45
  Can be around as well? Once I find Eric's done, I was
• 36:49
  like dangerous route, every corner you just don't bloody
• 36:51
  know, what sort of automatic defenses are, is inside of a
• 36:54
  Dalek. Yeah.
• 36:56
  And all this stuff about how the, you know, they've just find
• 36:58
  that grapple into the Dalek casing but because it's all one
• 37:04
  thing that it can that causes the Dalek pain and it feels it
• 37:07
  have you read Robert Simmons Ation of Dalek, I have yes, I is
• 37:12
  phenomenally good. Yeah, I really liked it and that
• 37:15
  bit wait talks about that when the Dalek remembers being put in
• 37:18
  its casing and, you know, the lid, slams down and bits of
• 37:23
  tentacle are still stuck outside.
• 37:25
  So coming to some comes along and shops that all the bits of
• 37:28
  it's really, it's really gruesome.
• 37:30
  But yeah, that that all that stuff reminds me of the idea
• 37:33
  that they are Yeah, kind of melded to this machine and they
• 37:37
  learn it's part of them immediately as well.
• 37:40
  Oh my God, this sequence here where the fella gets killed,
• 37:43
  this is dark. This is the fellows evaporated
• 37:49
  and then it goes down to feed. The Dyers are there.
• 37:51
  Go down the tube in a minute, he's all season tire and I'm
• 37:55
  always quoting this slide where the doctor says, you know, you
• 37:57
  won't have a chat with him is the top layer over there.
• 37:59
  Yeah. It's a joke about the man's
• 38:01
  death is exactly the sort of thing the system to do and
• 38:04
  people don't like it. Ah, remember people about to
• 38:07
  this as well, but I think it's like that, you know, when the
• 38:13
  guy dies in pyramids of Mars, and I can, rather the doctor say
• 38:17
  something and then Sarah Jane says, sometimes you don't seem,
• 38:22
  and he goes human like that. That's what it most reminded me
• 38:25
  of more than more than the six doctor I think.
• 38:27
  Is that, you know, he can't, you know, can't kind of get too
• 38:32
  involved in grieving someone who just died because is the Doctor
• 38:35
  Who is kind of got up and get on with it and and save the day.
• 38:38
  But this is very simple. Hello, can only really like a
• 38:42
  funeral. Shall we wear these?
• 38:43
  And this was like Star Wars as well.
• 38:48
  This is like the bit with the trash compactor, in the first
• 38:50
  Star Wars film where they are escaping from the from the
• 38:53
  prison bit. And then they end up in the
• 38:56
  trash compactor, which is again, it's like this horrible, slimy
• 38:59
  gloopy place. This was an interactive place,
• 39:03
  you know, they absolute you beat those arms straight into the
• 39:06
  Slime, but like I like it when the doctor is sort of optimistic
• 39:12
  and and and you know, fighting for I love all of that.
• 39:15
  I like that enjoyed whisker and some of the other I really like
• 39:18
  it as well when he's a bit questionable and dark and you're
• 39:22
  not sure to because that keeps you on your toes otherwise you
• 39:26
  just always you know it's called Doctor Who for goodness sake.
• 39:29
  It's not you know, dr. Well you know we know what Get
• 39:32
  all the time. Yeah.
• 39:33
  And it's this Incarnation is Journey towards that.
• 39:37
  Isn't it? In the you know from You know,
• 39:41
  kind of figuring out who he is. Because I think the think it was
• 39:43
  think the thing to remember about the 12th doctor is like
• 39:46
  his antipathy towards soldiers. He's just a two thousand years
• 39:50
  on trenzalore way. He's been, you know, fighting
• 39:53
  continually against that every alien race.
• 39:57
  So, you know, he hasn't done proper doctoring of traveling
• 40:01
  around in the darkness for 2000 years which is a huge amount of
• 40:04
  time so he is learning the role a bit again.
• 40:08
  Having effectively been a soldier all that.
• 40:10
  Time by having to fight off all the different races.
• 40:13
  Such a nice time talking about is that darling, did you have to
• 40:16
  bring out some of the doctor? It's a very strange.
• 40:21
  Do you know that he spent all that time there and they seem to
• 40:23
  have got over it very quickly. We never mention it again.
• 40:27
  Well, this is I think this is the implicit trauma in the
• 40:30
  Twelfth Doctor. This is how he has to learn to
• 40:33
  become the the cuddly doctor again that we see in serious
• 40:35
  turn. I think it's.
• 40:37
  I think it's subtext cards, but I do think are you sure?
• 40:41
  Still when he tries to convince people to shoot him.
• 40:46
  Yeah, that's that's that's very odd, isn't it?
• 40:49
  Yeah, I think it looks like oh good.
• 40:53
  The thing I was thinking about the time when trenzalore he's
• 40:56
  you know the kind of he's been there so long.
• 40:59
  He's you seen people through their entire lives and known
• 41:02
  them for their, you know, for decades and decades and decades,
• 41:05
  way longer than he's on Clara, but it's still so Clara that he
• 41:09
  kind of clean. As to whether that's like
• 41:11
  because she represents the former life of being able to
• 41:13
  travel freely. Instance, or she is a very
• 41:16
  pretty woman, you know. Yeah.
• 41:18
  That's and she did save him. What's great?
• 41:21
  Is he asked the question in this doesn't lie?
• 41:23
  A my good man and then he has normal speech in the doctor
• 41:28
  falls with the two masters where it is.
• 41:30
  I fry and do what's right? That's the conclusion is drawn
• 41:34
  in an X and but he always tries his best and that's the doctor.
• 41:39
  Yeah, and this whole thing set up in Day of the Doctor, isn't
• 41:42
  it? Because Clara is teaching her
• 41:45
  class at the beginning of Day of the Doctor about Marcus Aurelius
• 41:50
  and asking. You know, if he's a good man,
• 41:51
  sort of thing, so it's kind of yes, seeded, right?
• 41:54
  Right from there. And it is just worth noting,
• 41:58
  because I'm not sure, I have one of us.
• 41:59
  Has mentioned it yet. That Peter Capaldi is probably
• 42:04
  the best actor to play the doctor, so you give him these
• 42:07
  really interesting things to do. His electric.
• 42:11
  It's amazing to watch and like, yeah, may not have chimed with
• 42:15
  the wider audience. I've had this conversation with
• 42:17
  Luke Malloy on this thing, and he goes, yes, you know, Steven
• 42:21
  Moffat, maybe writing more for Doctor Who fans that he is for
• 42:24
  the general audience, but he took the show in really unusual
• 42:28
  and exciting places, and in the right of is a few less people
• 42:32
  watched it. We can wait.
• 42:33
  But we are great dogs, whose to watch all?
• 42:35
  That's a trade-off. I'm willing to have Yeah, and I
• 42:38
  agree with that. I can only really care about
• 42:41
  whether I'm enjoying it and are selfish Mark honestly, but I've
• 42:47
  got no control over the content of it or whether other people
• 42:51
  enjoy it or not but you know, I fought for my money.
• 42:54
  I agree. I think he's the best.
• 42:56
  Actors play the doctor and I yeah, find him completely
• 42:59
  magnetic. Every time he's on the screen.
• 43:03
  Well my one reservation is I don't know if he always had the
• 43:08
  material sort of worthy of him as an actor and I and that's
• 43:13
  entirely Personal Taste. I feel I feel like a couple of
• 43:17
  times a year, he got just gold standard Ryan where he just blew
• 43:23
  and sometimes he did the best with what he had.
• 43:28
  Well that you can say that if any of the doctors though, I
• 43:31
  think, you know, the best, the best, doctors Elevate, the
• 43:35
  material and make anything, watchable that's but not all of
• 43:39
  the doctors were Peter Capaldi. No, no.
• 43:43
  I is, again, is another doctor. I would love to have stayed on
• 43:47
  and done a bit more. Did you see him taking out that
• 43:51
  wall? They look very like Amy's crack,
• 43:53
  didn't it? Yeah.
• 43:57
  So, I love all of this poking around in tubes and pipes and
• 44:00
  things. This feels so classic who's to
• 44:02
  me, it does, doesn't it? Yeah, and I suppose a bit like
• 44:05
  bit, you know, being in the mini scope as well.
• 44:07
  Isn't it for the third doctor in Carnival of monsters because
• 44:11
  you've got the, some of the kind of the bolts and things like
• 44:14
  that or we see are actually tiny but they're, they're huge as
• 44:18
  they walk around them. So what about this wonderful
• 44:21
  idea of the Dalek seeing? Is that a supernova?
• 44:26
  I think so. Yeah.
• 44:27
  It's like the birth of a constellation or something.
• 44:30
  Isn't it that it? Yeah, it's seen this moment of
• 44:32
  beauty and turned good. And the battle damage is
• 44:37
  prevented its usual systems from kicking in and erasing it.
• 44:42
  This is Jose to the doctor like well, you know who cares?
• 44:46
  If a Dalek ever you can have a good darling.
• 44:48
  You know, it's just one good darling and it's up to us like
• 44:50
  don't know that's massive because everyone knew it they
• 44:54
  can all do it. Oh my God.
• 44:56
  We're gonna get some sexy. Dalek action now yeah.
• 45:00
  This this is I think the Dalek and never been this
• 45:03
  well-directed and this this exciting and threatening because
• 45:09
  anything that it's just got a rapid rate of fire as well which
• 45:12
  immediately makes it more threatening.
• 45:13
  I think the thing that loads are Dalek story is fire once and
• 45:17
  then shout exterminate a lot of times where people are, plenty
• 45:20
  time to get away. Whereas these you know they 5A
• 45:23
  rapidly, they cut people down that immediately surround me in
• 45:28
  slow motion and so we could see every You know, people people
• 45:34
  x-rayed as they're being exterminated, it's just
• 45:37
  fabulous. It's like to be in remembrance,
• 45:40
  is only is the best Dalek. See and ever is when they're at,
• 45:43
  totters Lane at the beginning of remembrance.
• 45:45
  And you don't see the Dalek, but you see it's point of view.
• 45:48
  And then the shot throws, the soldier briefly becomes like a
• 45:54
  skeleton in - as well. It's a bit disappointing when it
• 45:57
  comes out, and it's on cobbles, really, and it sucks.
• 46:02
  Amazing up to that point. It looks a bit drunk than it
• 46:05
  when it comes out. Yeah.
• 46:06
  And just do some problem that we have here now.
• 46:10
  Now, there are nice flat floors here.
• 46:12
  But this help the states as well because like so far we've sort
• 46:14
  of done all the exploring around the Tardis and the tension has
• 46:16
  come around the defense's inside the Dalek.
• 46:19
  Now Alex are on the Move we suddenly swung around the
• 46:23
  spaceships been exposed behind the mat asteroid.
• 46:26
  The diets are all coming in. So now we've got Big Steaks,
• 46:29
  you'll run a ticking clock. Doc, we've got to get this done.
• 46:32
  Yeah, it takes it up a gear immediately, doesn't it?
• 46:36
  Okay that was the also got go you mentioned the slap there
• 46:40
  that you don't you don't like Clara slapping the doctor.
• 46:43
  I don't think that's an appropriate action or companion
• 46:48
  to a doctor and it does what a tie into what I said this
• 46:52
  relationship a bit toxic because went by the time he leaves kill
• 46:55
  the moon. It's it's very much so and some
• 46:59
  parts of the caretaker as well. But can I do think it's
• 47:02
  interesting that they've gone here?
• 47:04
  Yeah, it's Jackie slaps. The doctor doesn't she and
• 47:08
  aliens of London? Yeah.
• 47:10
  Why don't I mind that? I find that very funny.
• 47:13
  Mmm. Oh, I think it's because the
• 47:15
  doctors on the back foot there, whereas here, he's being a total
• 47:17
  prick. He probably deserved.
• 47:20
  Well, that's it. I think the thing here and I
• 47:22
  think time again, you know, Claire was got the blouse with
• 47:25
  the eye is gone. It she can see, maybe what the
• 47:27
  others can't because the doctor and all the soldiers here have
• 47:30
  spent most of their life, fighting the Daleks and can
• 47:34
  Antsy, you know, beyond the need to destroy it and and, you know,
• 47:38
  see them as evil. Whereas, you know, she says well
• 47:41
  know what we've learned is that it can appreciate Beauty wears a
• 47:45
  doctor's because I don't know, we were wrong.
• 47:46
  It was, it was always evil sort of thing, which again is a bit
• 47:50
  like garlic in the story dialect where Rose sort confronts, the
• 47:56
  doctor loves you doesn't slap him.
• 47:57
  She she kind of brings him down by saying, you know, like you're
• 48:00
  the one that's pointing a gun at me so it's a companion each
• 48:03
  time. The doctor see.
• 48:06
  No, you are your hatred of the Daleks here is, is kind of, you
• 48:10
  know, pushing you too far. So I my objection is I just
• 48:13
  don't think violence should be the older, you know.
• 48:17
  Yeah, appropriate response. Because yeah, like if it was the
• 48:22
  other way around. Yeah.
• 48:24
  You would you wouldn't get that, you know, like it is it is but I
• 48:33
  think it ties into, as you said that.
• 48:36
  Climate is an interesting flawed character that they, you know,
• 48:38
  it isn't an appropriate response.
• 48:40
  And you know, do they? I've noticed this because I feel
• 48:44
  like Clara is a bit of a divisive character and and I
• 48:47
  think Rose is a bit of a divisive character.
• 48:49
  They like Donna because she tempestuous but she's, you know,
• 48:52
  good, she's always good. You know.
• 48:55
  Yeah. Where is they don't like these
• 48:56
  people that are think sometimes reminds people a little bit of
• 48:59
  themselves. You know, we can be a bit
• 49:02
  selfish jealous and a bit angry and a bit.
• 49:06
  That and a lot of things and I think people don't like the
• 49:09
  reminder. And her overall story arc is is
• 49:13
  that she goes too far, isn't it? You know, ultimately she she
• 49:16
  pushes things too far and that that leads to her death.
• 49:19
  So it's kind of early signs of that as well.
• 49:22
  You know, she could just talk to the doctor, but she she pushes
• 49:25
  it a bit more and slaps him. Our first story was flying
• 49:29
  around. Thomas Basinger American Diner
• 49:32
  is a fun ride. I thought that was where we were
• 49:34
  heading. Well, it is, but she's, she
• 49:37
  doesn't have a full life does. She's, she's taken.
• 49:40
  Akley dead and she knows that she eventually has us to go back
• 49:43
  and face. That, I'm just being away
• 49:45
  though, I know I'll have her people suggest.
• 49:48
  So this bit in a minute where that bit where she said to him,
• 49:51
  you know she told him, you know? Yeah.
• 49:53
  There is a possibility to do this on the doctor says look
• 49:55
  whatever you're going to do. Stop it.
• 49:57
  We're going to do this. We're going to, we are going to
• 50:00
  try and turn this dialog again. Suggest, that's the first time.
• 50:05
  He behaves, like the doctor that we recognize in the entire
• 50:09
  episode. Outside poem.
• 50:14
  Yeah, it's yeah, it's that moment and it's the moment where
• 50:17
  you get to the music, isn't it? The 12th doctor theme tune,
• 50:23
  which is it's so different from the 11th doctor.
• 50:25
  Isn't it? Where the arms doctor had that?
• 50:29
  I love it. I still run to that down the
• 50:31
  gym, you know? Yeah.
• 50:34
  Yeah. You couldn't run to the 12th
• 50:35
  doctors while the toltecs was more like the Batman theme in
• 50:39
  the in the Dark Knight trilogy, isn't it?
• 50:41
  It's more kind of, okay. Kestrel and but somehow, kind of
• 50:45
  quite Majestic as well. I love them both.
• 50:48
  I think the big two great pieces of music.
• 50:50
  He's me. Did you just see those Daleks
• 50:52
  coming out of that explosion, then all of their thoughts?
• 50:55
  Let up debris. Flying everywhere in silhouette.
• 50:58
  I mean, this is close to dark Palm as you're ever going to get
• 51:01
  it is gorgeous. Yeah they look absolutely
• 51:04
  beautiful. I think that.
• 51:06
  And then day that some of the scenes in day of the Daleks are
• 51:10
  the Daleks sorry. Dave.
• 51:13
  Three of them as well. We tighten the Daleks.
• 51:16
  Yeah, I know Day of the Doctor, the some of the scenes there and
• 51:19
  it was model working. That wasn't it.
• 51:20
  When there's that bit, where the wall explodes and the you see
• 51:25
  one of the mutants flying out of the, of the debris of the Dalek.
• 51:28
  I love that bit in that, in Day of the Doctor.
• 51:29
  But no, this is, this is the gold standard.
• 51:32
  I do think those three Jodie, Whittaker?
• 51:35
  Dalek stories, shit. I think, either the Daleks, the
• 51:39
  Daleks are shop really well in that because the lights are low.
• 51:42
  So in that way, arouse all the way through so they can do look
• 51:45
  reveals of them. Oh, look at this.
• 51:50
  The we do this. A new Earth going up on a zip
• 51:53
  wire. Yeah.
• 51:56
  Yeah, that one seemed like that, wasn't it?
• 51:57
  Yeah. But it's great because you've
• 51:59
  got Clara screaming her head off and Charlie Blues just like,
• 52:02
  let's go. Yeah, yeah, this court can see
• 52:07
  Missy. Yeah, so this is this is
• 52:10
  Gretchen isn't it? And as I say that that's it's
• 52:12
  like the effect they did with journey at the start, it's a
• 52:15
  flash of white and then find them some sort of somewhere new.
• 52:19
  It's so subtle that I say this, I've watched his Lord two times,
• 52:21
  and it's only occurred to me. Re-watching it for this, what a
• 52:25
  clue that is that, that misses a Time Lord.
• 52:27
  She's using that same kind of Technology as the doctor did
• 52:30
  when he materialized the the Tardis around.
• 52:32
  Like it's so incredibly. This is like the best Awk in
• 52:38
  terms of enticing and pay off because I'm not sure the payoff
• 52:44
  is entirely there, but in terms of interest and engagement those
• 52:50
  scenes where Missy appears in the first half of this season,
• 52:54
  I'll figure this they ever did in terms of like intrigued.
• 52:58
  Yeah, I love it and it's such a stark contrast between this the
• 53:04
  inside of the dialog or the this Spaceship where this huge
• 53:07
  battles going on in. It's all dark and there's flames
• 53:10
  and its really industrial. And then this kind of afternoon
• 53:13
  tea, where where mrs. Sitting, it's just a moment of
• 53:18
  just absolute incongruity, isn't it?
• 53:22
  So the original script out to God at the original idea, or the
• 53:27
  original idea of the script, was the doctrine clever were driving
• 53:30
  Rusty around and taking on the other dialects or like, kind of
• 53:34
  using them as a tank. Well, that's quite fun, isn't
• 53:37
  it? It would have been quite cool
• 53:39
  with that. I'll show him.
• 53:40
  I like the idea of the doctor go around the weapon but that's why
• 53:43
  I think that's that's probably why it was changed and they went
• 53:47
  into this instead. What I thought I was taking me
• 53:50
  back to those scenes in end of time, you know, when they're
• 53:52
  going around on that spaceship and whilst are going, boom,
• 53:54
  boom. Yeah, but you're right.
• 53:58
  The the visual differences messy scenes, the scenes on the space
• 54:02
  station with the darkness Tackett and the scenes in.
• 54:05
  It's very very Different visually, hmm.
• 54:10
  Yeah. But the die feeling real sort of
• 54:14
  the linchpin of this episode is here where and it's the doctor
• 54:19
  giving me a rousing speech of like you know, although Wonder
• 54:22
  in the universe or the world of this, you know, and Capaldi's
• 54:25
  brilliant. Yeah.
• 54:26
  Yeah. Mad energy about him and then
• 54:30
  the guardian owns it on him and says, I see your hatred for the
• 54:34
  Daleks Yeah yeah. All part of the questioning
• 54:39
  whether he's a good man stuff and and it's like the the Dalek
• 54:44
  in in the episode dialects saying you would make a good
• 54:47
  Dalek as well, isn't it? It's all tied into the that, you
• 54:51
  know, how far do you go to stop them without becoming like them
• 54:55
  kind of thing? No, I got a lot.
• 54:57
  I did get a little bit sick to death of the examination of the
• 55:01
  doctors character because it happened from one all the way
• 55:04
  through. And then Start doing it again.
• 55:06
  In whiskers time, with all the Timeless Charles on our God, we
• 55:09
  still doing this. But I think this again did this
• 55:14
  season, it might be my favorite example of this.
• 55:18
  Hmm, because there's a question I've asked, is that?
• 55:20
  I'm sure a good man. You know, he can commit genocide
• 55:24
  in a heartbeat if the situation. Yeah, absolutely.
• 55:30
  It's the whole all of my FIT stuff is about, isn't it?
• 55:34
  How the doctor is? You know, it's the promise and
• 55:37
  it's the It's the thing to try and live up to and maybe, you
• 55:42
  know, sometimes you can't always loved that in think probably my
• 55:45
  favorite Doctor Who, because the novelization of their Day of the
• 55:48
  Doctor where there's an, if you've read that, but it's our
• 55:52
  very carefully did not read that.
• 55:55
  I it's, I love it and it's such a great companion to the TV
• 56:01
  story because you see a lot of stuff that the other scenes in
• 56:03
  between the scenes and things. There's a whole thing where it's
• 56:06
  written in the third person because it's The doctor writing
• 56:10
  about, or the time lord, who is the doctor writing about the
• 56:13
  doctor in the third person, and very occasionally uses the first
• 56:17
  person. In moments where you think,
• 56:21
  maybe they think that they're not quite living up to being the
• 56:25
  doctor. And I was just, I know some
• 56:27
  people don't like that, but I think it's absolutely brilliant.
• 56:29
  And we're ready a couple of times.
• 56:31
  And you notice more things. Every time you read it, I'm a
• 56:34
  vegetarian. I'll probably will get over
• 56:36
  myself and read it and I love the rose one for all the extra
• 56:41
  details, he added to that massive sort of Hollywood ending
• 56:44
  with the London. Eye coming off and fall into the
• 56:48
  row. Yeah.
• 56:48
  Yeah. Yeah, I think Dave is just adds
• 56:54
  like a massive body count, two rows doesn't he writes new
• 56:56
  people and just to kill them off the light.
• 57:00
  Okay, this is kind of doctoring enough show here, right.
• 57:02
  Well certainly the new series and a not show.
• 57:04
  You've got it, the most absurd thing.
• 57:07
  This mutant creature. You know this Nazi mutant
• 57:11
  creature, that looks completely absurd and then they put a
• 57:15
  beautiful Supernova in its eye, is a moment of beauty.
• 57:18
  See, and you're talking about real emotions.
• 57:23
  Yeah, it's it's something they've done brilliantly in the
• 57:27
  new series, isn't it right? Right front?
• 57:28
  I keep talking about right? From Rob shimmers, Dalek giving
• 57:32
  the character to a Dalek and making you feel sympathy for it
• 57:36
  when it's, you know, a prop and it's all done through the other
• 57:41
  actors interacting with it. And Nick Briggs is voice and
• 57:43
  what he can bring to it. But they're sometimes never
• 57:46
  forget it breaks because I'll spend plenty of time with my
• 57:49
  finish big podcast, ripping him, but his work on.
• 57:52
  On the TV series. He's given the sort of
• 57:56
  performances we've never seen before with monster.
• 57:58
  Yeah. And it makes me think a bit with
• 58:01
  a Mandalorian which I'm really enjoying the new series of at
• 58:04
  the moment. And there's some scenes where
• 58:06
  there's, there's two characters were wearing masks and then a
• 58:10
  puppet of baby Yoda and it's so compelling and you can't see any
• 58:15
  human faces and it is it's all done with with voices and you
• 58:20
  know the Artistry of the Puppeteer or the you know the
• 58:22
  CGI people and things like that it is it's kind of incredible
• 58:26
  what you can do. This is astonishing the
• 58:29
  different ways that you can make people feel, isn't it?
• 58:33
  Yeah, it's like two droids. Install was running a big Star
• 58:36
  Wars guy but just watching and door and there's this is like a
• 58:39
  Droid that they have around the house and they've made him quite
• 58:41
  kind of sentimental and, and a big kind of cowardly and stuff.
• 58:45
  Even though it is just like a metal kind of box, sort of
• 58:48
  thing. It's got like a thing with eyes,
• 58:50
  pop out the top and like, but quite sort of nervously and
• 58:54
  yeah, just imbued it with so much characters, brilliant mate
• 58:56
  or sort of level. I'm working out with science
• 58:58
  fiction because that fellow Co shammes died, but when canine
• 59:09
  went off in school reunions, I was fucking heartbroken, and
• 59:13
  that was just a team. Yeah, I think it's one of the
• 59:17
  few times where I've had a bit of a, to my watching Doctor Who
• 59:20
  is, is when canine sacrifices himself in school?
• 59:26
  Oh, my God. I love all these sequences of
• 59:29
  the Daleks blown up. There's I think it's already
• 59:31
  past now but there's one sequence where all the Daleks
• 59:34
  are going across and you kind of got me in profile and one of
• 59:37
  them just detonates. Yeah, it looks incredible.
• 59:43
  They date, they look amazing in this but then that's another
• 59:46
  thing we need to remember as well is it back in the classic
• 59:49
  series on the hull when they blew up a darling you know you
• 59:52
  just saw a bit of plywood flying across the set and yeah nowadays
• 59:57
  we're talking the cinema baby. You know the bit was just a lot
• 1:00:02
  of blue goo was oozing out of its the casing of one of them.
• 1:00:08
  I mean, look at these with these two dark shells.
• 1:00:11
  The smokes coming out of them garlic.
• 1:00:15
  We saw that in like the five doctors and that didn't really,
• 1:00:17
  but can see it on a much, much bigger scale.
• 1:00:20
  Now, like tonally. This is so different from the
• 1:00:25
  previous isn't it? Yeah, absolutely feels feels
• 1:00:31
  bit, more kind of grown up. Anyway.
• 1:00:32
  I'm not the monster. It poses the question.
• 1:00:36
  Am I good, man? It doesn't answer it.
• 1:00:39
  That's it. No.
• 1:00:42
  No, because that's what Clara says that the end is Niche.
• 1:00:44
  That I don't know. And then, yeah, this is this
• 1:00:48
  Echoes. You are a good.
• 1:00:49
  Dalek Echoes. Rob.
• 1:00:52
  Sherman surfaces are now as good as this moment is not do like it
• 1:00:56
  the cut ecosystems face. When that Dante says it in
• 1:01:00
  Dalek, it's the one of the few months have gone now.
• 1:01:12
  Oh yeah, she goes running off, then she added this mirrors.
• 1:01:14
  The sort of the atom thing. Doesn't it of why don't you take
• 1:01:17
  the back? Yeah.
• 1:01:19
  That's it. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:01:22
  Because I know some people start question.
• 1:01:23
  Where does the, where does his dislike of soldiers?
• 1:01:27
  Suddenly come from in this series, but alerts never
• 1:01:29
  explicitly said I do think it's, you know, a holdover from
• 1:01:34
  trenzalore where, you know, kind of wave after wave of soldiers
• 1:01:38
  of different races were sent against him.
• 1:01:40
  You know, he's fighting off some towns and Cybermen and remember
• 1:01:44
  the sontaran stratagem, he spends the whole episode baring
• 1:01:48
  his teeth every time. You know the military want to
• 1:01:51
  deploy where he's all that I do think there is we got Presto
• 1:01:55
  with some yeah definitely. Yeah I was with unit and
• 1:01:58
  everything here. Yeah I suppose it would be
• 1:02:01
  interesting if these rumors are true of a unit spinoff series,
• 1:02:05
  you know, are they, you know, will be periods of conflict
• 1:02:09
  between them and the doctor, you know, it won't be.
• 1:02:11
  Maybe always Hammer, one needs to be interesting to to do that
• 1:02:15
  and I'll wait to see the charismatic presence of Jemma
• 1:02:18
  Redgrave. Setting up the screen.
• 1:02:23
  I guess I really like it. Although I got always you could
• 1:02:27
  have put money on. She's a military leader.
• 1:02:30
  She doesn't need to be charismatic all over the father.
• 1:02:34
  Not yet percent of fandom, think she's very dull.
• 1:02:40
  Oh God, Lisa, Nicole coming after me now because she's a
• 1:02:43
  she's a favorite character, right?
• 1:02:45
  No I think it's plenty of like now that she's got like the
• 1:02:49
  Brigadier she's got this Rich history of having appeared.
• 1:02:51
  And opposite so many different doctors and then through big
• 1:02:54
  finish, you know, the you've got the, she's a pyramid, Tom Baker,
• 1:02:58
  isn't she? And yeah, once and future in the
• 1:03:01
  first volume of their 60th anniversary series and, you
• 1:03:03
  know, I'm not entirely sure where you've ever really duck
• 1:03:06
  into who she is and then we grow death.
• 1:03:09
  But I've Got a Feeling Russ, Davis might do that, you know,
• 1:03:12
  when she appears it is, yes, because he's thing, isn't it?
• 1:03:16
  Especially if she's getting a spin-off soon.
• 1:03:18
  There was a few Nita getting spinoff series.
• 1:03:20
  You know, he's going to be like torture.
• 1:03:21
  Today we're going to learn about their bit more about their lives
• 1:03:25
  and that kind of thing. All this stuff is gold.
• 1:03:29
  She's got in that cupboard should come out wearing
• 1:03:30
  different clothes. This is the sort of stuff that
• 1:03:33
  eyes rages through listened brilliantly.
• 1:03:37
  Yeah, that is cool. Proper kind of rom-com stuff,
• 1:03:40
  isn't it? That as well or like you know
• 1:03:43
  what, somebody's like Donald got two dates or something and
• 1:03:46
  they're trying to kind of go between them and they love it
• 1:03:49
  wrong, a rom-com or not. I think it should try.
• 1:03:53
  I think you should try it. Maybe I'll take on friends.
• 1:03:57
  You know. You could probably do that sort
• 1:03:58
  of thing, really? Yeah, I'll talk about Clara in
• 1:04:02
  red. Look at her in robot of
• 1:04:04
  Sherwood. Yeah, she's beautiful.
• 1:04:07
  Isn't she wasn't Clara? Is it Elizabeth slayton's middle
• 1:04:12
  name that? Right.
• 1:04:15
  Oh, I don't know. Didn't you named her Clara?
• 1:04:18
  Because this lady had died and she at this point.
• 1:04:20
  And that was a little name, right?
• 1:04:24
  I didn't. I didn't realize that that's
• 1:04:26
  interesting. And, you know, in terms of an
• 1:04:30
  actress, taking a role that isn't always fortunately
• 1:04:35
  written. It's kind of sketchy at times
• 1:04:38
  but having massive presence on the screen and charm, I think,
• 1:04:43
  Elizabeth sladen. And generally Is Coleman are in,
• 1:04:46
  cahoots. Mmm.
• 1:04:50
  Definitely. Yeah, what do you think of, bro?
• 1:04:53
  But I sure would I really like it?
• 1:04:57
  Used you dazzle me with that? Yeah, well I think I think, for
• 1:05:02
  me, the central message of robot of Sherwood is, you know, the
• 1:05:06
  whole thing about, you know, like, oh, you know, believing in
• 1:05:09
  impossible, Heroes and that kinda thing.
• 1:05:12
  And then the other doctor kind of things that cloud should have
• 1:05:14
  grown out of it. I think, as a man in his 40s who
• 1:05:17
  watches and thinks far too much about Doctor Who the message.
• 1:05:20
  Age that it's okay. Just to go with it and believe
• 1:05:22
  in it, believe in the in childhood Heroes.
• 1:05:25
  That's a message. I can, I can get on board with
• 1:05:28
  all that surprised you. I like it as well.
• 1:05:30
  I just think it's a bloody good laugh episode.
• 1:05:33
  Yeah, yeah, definitely especially when he says, I don't
• 1:05:36
  need a sword because I have, you spool know?
• 1:05:39
  Yeah, well we've reached the end of into the Dalek.
• 1:05:46
  Now we have to name, our three things to recommend the episode
• 1:05:49
  to everybody. I think with that pretty good
• 1:05:51
  job already but let's just summarize.
• 1:05:54
  Why don't you go first? What the direction absolutely
• 1:06:00
  is, is phenomenal, right? Right from the start, but the
• 1:06:05
  Dalek battle scenes, they never looked as good.
• 1:06:08
  If that was, if they did a Doctor Who movie and that was on
• 1:06:10
  the big screen, you know, be more than happy with that would
• 1:06:14
  be perfect. I am going to say daring to
• 1:06:20
  Continue the 12 doctors story from deep breath because we
• 1:06:25
  remember the end of deep breath. When he's on that dirigible with
• 1:06:28
  the Clockwork man and we all know every firm out or not.
• 1:06:33
  And, you know, they could have sort of tired all this up,
• 1:06:35
  pretty quickly, and made him a lot more likable.
• 1:06:38
  And instead, they're playing a long game and, you know, daring
• 1:06:43
  to suggest that actually, maybe he's not such a good bloke and
• 1:06:46
  he does do some pretty interesting things.
• 1:06:50
  Things in the first half of this episode that could put people
• 1:06:53
  off, I think sir. It's a really sort of dangerous
• 1:06:56
  place to go. I like dogs who when it goes
• 1:06:59
  into those sort of areas. So I'm going to say the 12
• 1:07:02
  doctors storyline this season continuing into this episode.
• 1:07:07
  Well, I suppose it's a similar sort of things, what I said
• 1:07:09
  about the direction, but I love the Star Wars.
• 1:07:11
  How much is in it as well. It's it's something we don't
• 1:07:14
  really often getting Doctor. Who is that kind of scale of
• 1:07:18
  space battle and excitement. And we mentioned some of them,
• 1:07:21
  like, the opening shot is quite like Star Wars the bit in the
• 1:07:26
  goo tank, but also, when the ship is being boarded by the
• 1:07:29
  dialects, is very light. When Darth Vader on the
• 1:07:31
  Stormtroopers board, Princess Leia's ship and the first one.
• 1:07:35
  So So all that gives it an epic scale of Science Fiction and we
• 1:07:39
  don't often see and it goes from the very small.
• 1:07:42
  Doesn't it inside the Dalek to that big epic scope of the
• 1:07:48
  battle in the asteroid field and being bored in everything so
• 1:07:51
  yeah, I love that. More a second thing is going to
• 1:07:54
  be you in this series 52 when we service five came out and it was
• 1:07:59
  such a robust Lee plotted season and it felt as if a lot of time
• 1:08:05
  had gone into it. After, you know, maybe the
• 1:08:08
  specials for a bit slapdash, it really felt it.
• 1:08:12
  Had some time to make his impact and really do a single season of
• 1:08:16
  Doctor Who that you'll never ever forget.
• 1:08:19
  I kind of feel like that's happening here again, in series
• 1:08:21
  a, I feel like in We're a bit off the rails.
• 1:08:24
  Whatever people want to say about how ambitious it is.
• 1:08:27
  I'm not entirely sure. It coheres and in seven, there's
• 1:08:31
  a lot of War doing Sherlock at the same time and I'm Panic
• 1:08:35
  right in and I think that shows a little bit him, but in I and I
• 1:08:39
  feel like it really shows in this episode because you've got
• 1:08:42
  the Danny pink stuff coming in which, you know, is sewn into
• 1:08:46
  the season, you've got the scene with Mitzi in the middle, which
• 1:08:49
  is sewn into the season and you've got the doctor and Clara
• 1:08:52
  is Relationship playing an absolutely Estonian to the
• 1:08:56
  season. I just feel like he's got a
• 1:08:58
  really good hand of the structure of this season, and
• 1:09:03
  we're sort of everything's being placed and how to sort of dangle
• 1:09:08
  the carrot. Yeah.
• 1:09:11
  Laughing. That's been done, well, in this
• 1:09:13
  episode and that's it. And I think in modern TV, you
• 1:09:17
  need those things, those little hooks that keep people
• 1:09:19
  interested, so even if it's an episode, a don't get on with
• 1:09:23
  because they are all different. Your likes a robot show is
• 1:09:25
  completely different to this one internally and everything but
• 1:09:29
  where you've got those little moments that keep people
• 1:09:32
  watching to see what the payoff is like with Missy.
• 1:09:36
  So with their relationship, the doctor question himself, whether
• 1:09:39
  he is a good man, all that stuff keeps keeps people coming back.
• 1:09:42
  I think John never thought I'd say it's one of my things.
• 1:09:45
  Moffitt dangling, his carrot me but they here we are.
• 1:09:49
  What's your last one? Yeah, it's the Clara.
• 1:09:53
  I think it's a really really good episode for Clara because
• 1:09:56
  she you know as I've said that thing about her blouse having
• 1:09:59
  the eyes on she can kind of see what the other characters can't.
• 1:10:03
  It's you know she's the one that kind of works it out how they're
• 1:10:06
  going to not you know what not have to destroy the dollar from
• 1:10:10
  the inside but make rustici again, you know, how it can be
• 1:10:14
  good. And yeah the way that that she
• 1:10:18
  brings that perspective compared to all the other characters in
• 1:10:20
  the story of been fighting the Daleks for Years and years and
• 1:10:22
  years and have lost that objectivity.
• 1:10:25
  I think Right stuff. And my last one is going to be
• 1:10:31
  how this episode feels like a how much this episode feels like
• 1:10:34
  a classic series? I mean, it's definitely new
• 1:10:37
  series. There's lots of emotion, there's
• 1:10:38
  plenty of money, you know, but it feels like a classic series
• 1:10:44
  story and purely for the reason for me is that it's set in the
• 1:10:48
  middle of this big Dalek War. So it's like some Alex master
• 1:10:52
  plan or something like that. You know, why don't ya?
• 1:10:56
  Ground stuff's going on in the galaxy and we're just seeing
• 1:10:59
  this part of it and I can't liar.
• 1:11:02
  I like, like, how you can peek at a larger story taking place.
• 1:11:06
  And when I need to know what, what the overall conflict is,
• 1:11:09
  because what our interest is here, but it has slight, lots of
• 1:11:13
  nice color in the background. This world building isn't it
• 1:11:16
  yusei, Robert Holmes was so good at that stuff.
• 1:11:19
  But yeah, media makes you think of like the mobile in war or the
• 1:11:22
  death to the Daleks as that war going on.
• 1:11:24
  And there's the plague that's raging across the Galaxy, all
• 1:11:27
  that kind of stuff as well. Now, definitely.
• 1:11:29
  Yeah, works really well. These big monsters like the
• 1:11:31
  Daleks and the Cybermen isn't is that you can sort of land a
• 1:11:35
  story at any point in that timeline, you know?
• 1:11:38
  And yeah, hey a bit of the picture but the tapestry whole
• 1:11:42
  series. Definitely.
• 1:11:46
  Yeah my other should we could wax lyrical anymore about into
• 1:11:50
  the Dalek if we tried it's an absolute Banger, isn't it?
• 1:11:53
  I think it's phenomenally good. Yeah.
• 1:11:56
  And you know like it's I'm gonna end this on a sour note but I
• 1:12:00
  know like Fraser Gregory's wife stopped watching and in this
• 1:12:04
  episode it was it was that line about if you want to talk to him
• 1:12:07
  is that top layer over there? She was like I'm done right?
• 1:12:10
  And didn't come back until Jodie, Whittaker was back in.
• 1:12:13
  And I know Sy heart has a lot of trouble with this season doesn't
• 1:12:17
  like the docks of being you know dark and mysterious and a bit
• 1:12:22
  unlikable. I think you and I are living
• 1:12:26
  proof though that there is a A large part of fandom that just
• 1:12:30
  is there for this stuff. Yeah, and I say, I like, I like
• 1:12:36
  just talk to you to be different all the time, you know, whatever
• 1:12:38
  your mood is. There's a story that, you know,
• 1:12:41
  you want a light-hearted one or you want a darker one or yeah.
• 1:12:44
  It's you don't want it the same all the time.
• 1:12:47
  And I like different, the doctors to have different
• 1:12:50
  characters and for definitely to be a contrast against the doctor
• 1:12:54
  that went before as well. I think that's always an
• 1:12:55
  interesting thing to do and to play We've got a companion that
• 1:12:59
  crosses from one doctor to another is to see their reaction
• 1:13:03
  to it and in really likes it, it's the king of Clara's.
• 1:13:06
  Well, in that sense, isn't it that the relationships are
• 1:13:09
  different with the top doctor. Oh sorry, sir.
• 1:13:11
  Just prolong this for a second but and I'm trying to think how
• 1:13:14
  many companions do this Ben and Polly do it?
• 1:13:17
  Don't lie. Yeah.
• 1:13:19
  Sarah Jane. So Jane adric.
• 1:13:24
  Patrick Patrick, isn't it? Yeah, from being well-behaved,
• 1:13:30
  with Tom Baker, to think it is in charge with Peter Davison.
• 1:13:33
  Yeah, at Egan, this is what they've only just met him really
• 1:13:36
  haven't they? I'm Perry as well as the same,
• 1:13:39
  isn't it? And they'll actually Yeah.
• 1:13:42
  Yeah, Perry Mel. And then it's Rose.
• 1:13:46
  That's a really interesting one, isn't it?
• 1:13:48
  Because I think she has two very contrasting relationships with
• 1:13:51
  the two of them. Yeah.
• 1:13:54
  And then Matt Smith no love. It's always Amy comes in.
• 1:13:58
  Doesn't she in power? Yeah, that's it.
• 1:14:02
  Yeah and then it's clever. So there's a not many, it's
• 1:14:06
  quite a select group, isn't it? Well I think if you last most
• 1:14:09
  people now they'll always be that one in ten.
• 1:14:11
  But if you ask most people whose Clara's doctor they'll say the
• 1:14:17
  12 doctor. Yeah, yeah I'd say so.
• 1:14:21
  Yaxha two full seasons together. Didn't they as well compared to
• 1:14:24
  half season with Matt Smith? I've got a big question for you
• 1:14:27
  now, then before we out. But where we go next?
• 1:14:35
  Well, I mean I'd always built for Asylum of the Daleks if it's
• 1:14:39
  that's on the cards. Now, let you go be prepared,
• 1:14:43
  though, right? Cause I'm going to come being
• 1:14:44
  honest. Okay.
• 1:14:46
  Yeah, I can change your mate. I've got a great idea.
• 1:14:49
  Hang on, let's do Asylum of the Daleks right.
• 1:14:52
  And I'm going to bring in milder off as well.
• 1:14:54
  Who absolutely loves it. So, the pair of you can pick on
• 1:14:57
  me and tell me where I'm going wrong.
• 1:14:59
  Perfect. Perfect.
• 1:15:01
  Yeah, that'd be great. Well well thank you very much
• 1:15:05
  for your R time. It's been an absolute Delight.
• 1:15:08
  Thanks for having me back. It's been.
• 1:15:09
  It's been brilliant and yeah. Congratulations on the
• 1:15:11
  continuing success of the podcast Back at Ya.
• 1:15:15
  I'll see you.