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79. What You're Carrying May Not Be Yours with Fernanda Vitale · Constellations and all that...

• 0:00
  Tracy: Kia ora, and welcome to Constellations and All That.
• 0:03
  Tracy: I'm your host, Tracey Cartwright, and together we will be exploring the world of family constellations with facilitators from, and clients from around the world, looking at different perspectives and experiences in the work, having a cup of tea, and just chatting with some friends around their experiences in constellations.
• 0:23
  Tracy: We'd love for you to join us.
• 0:25
  Tracy: I hope that you enjoy this series as much as I have loved making it.
• 0:33
  Tracy: Kia ora, everyone.
• 0:34
  Tracy: Welcome to Constellations and All That.
• 0:37
  Tracy: Today, I have the pleasure of talking to my friend and colleague, Fernanda.
• 0:42
  Tracy: Welcome, Fernanda.
• 0:43
  Fernanda: Thank you so much.
• 0:44
  Fernanda: Thanks for having me here.
• 0:46
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 0:47
  Tracy: Great, great that you could make it.
• 0:49
  Tracy: I would love for you to introduce yourself a little bit for the listeners and the viewers so they can, uh, yeah, hear a little bit about you.
• 0:57
  Fernanda: Yeah, so my name is Fernanda.
• 0:59
  Fernanda: I am originally from Brazil and have been living in Australia for 17 years.
• 1:05
  Fernanda: I did my training in family constellation in Brazil and in Australia, and I also did a training in systemic education in Brazil.
• 1:14
  Fernanda: Mm. And, um, have been p- Um, working, I worked in childcare for 25 years and, um, have been working as a support worker and now as a case manager in youth work.
• 1:29
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 1:30
  Tracy: Wow.
• 1:30
  Tracy: Very, uh, what's it?
• 1:31
  Tracy: Varied career.
• 1:33
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 1:33
  Tracy: Mm. Beautiful.
• 1:35
  Tracy: Ah, so you did, um, you did a bit of study in Brazil.
• 1:39
  Tracy: Who was your teacher in Brazil?
• 1:41
  Fernanda: A few.
• 1:42
  Fernanda: Isabella Oliveira, she used to teach at the Hellinger school in São Paulo.
• 1:48
  Fernanda: And then I had Cristina Florentino.
• 1:51
  Fernanda: And I did a few, a few courses, but the main, the two main ones were those two.
• 1:57
  Fernanda: And in Australia, I had Edwina as my- Beautiful, yeah … trainer.
• 2:01
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 2:02
  Fernanda: And, um, systemic education I did with, um, Elaine Vieira da Fonseca from Brazil, and have done, um, as well with Mary and Frank.
• 2:12
  Tracy: Oh, wow.
• 2:13
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 2:14
  Tracy: Great names.
• 2:15
  Tracy: Great names.
• 2:16
  Tracy: Fantastic.
• 2:17
  Tracy: So, so how did you first meet constellations?
• 2:20
  Tracy: How would, how did that come into your life?
• 2:22
  Fernanda: So I tried to fall pregnant for many years and, um, went into a journey of doing everything I could to figure it out what was going on.
• 2:35
  Fernanda: You know, like, all the holistic therapies, everything.
• 2:39
  Fernanda: Mm. I went vegan, I went vegetarian.
• 2:45
  Fernanda: I, you know, I did everything I could possibly until… And then I found, uh, Brad and Caroline, that, uh, he's a family constellator.
• 2:55
  Fernanda: And, um, he did a constellation for me on that, and then I fell pregnant.
• 3:02
  Fernanda: Beautiful.
• 3:02
  Fernanda: I'm not saying it was the constellation, you know, but it's interesting because, you know, I was doing everything I could, and I guess when I did the constellation it really showed me another layer, you know.
• 3:15
  Fernanda: Mm. Another layer, uh, of things.
• 3:18
  Fernanda: Um, and it, like I said, um, you know, it's a package, isn't it?
• 3:24
  Fernanda: It's the right time, but I guess, um, when I did the constellation, I like to say, do you know, uh, blinkers for horses?
• 3:32
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 3:32
  Tracy: Yep.
• 3:33
  Tracy: Mm-hmm.
• 3:33
  Fernanda: And I've, what I feel is when I found constellation it went, like, you know?
• 3:39
  Fernanda: And I was, like, able to see life from a different perspective and with so many layers that, um, I was probably aware, but it wasn't important, you know?
• 3:50
  Fernanda: Like, I, I knew that I had- my ancestors, but I didn't know, you know, the importance of them in my life.
• 4:00
  Fernanda: Mm. Yeah.
• 4:01
  Fernanda: Uh, one of my trainers, she, she says we have, um, like a warm back.
• 4:08
  Fernanda: You know?
• 4:09
  Fernanda: Like, own it.
• 4:11
  Fernanda: We have it.
• 4:12
  Fernanda: It belongs to you.
• 4:14
  Tracy: Like- A what, sorry?
• 4:15
  Fernanda: So I don't know if the expression would sound right in English.
• 4:18
  Fernanda: Like, it's… She says a hot back.
• 4:21
  Fernanda: Yeah?
• 4:21
  Fernanda: A
• 4:21
  Tracy: hot back.
• 4:22
  Fernanda: Like a- Yeah … you know?
• 4:24
  Fernanda: It's there, like a warm back,
• 4:26
  Tracy: like- I've never, I've never heard that expression, but-
• 4:28
  Fernanda: Because it's
• 4:29
  Tracy: like in Portuguese- So the, so she's referring to, like, there, there's energy behind you.
• 4:31
  Tracy: Is that what she means?
• 4:32
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 4:32
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 4:33
  Fernanda: Okay.
• 4:33
  Fernanda: So in Portuguese it means a hot back.
• 4:37
  Fernanda: That doesn't really make sense in English, but it's pretty much saying, like, you know, the, the amount of energy that you have behind you, it's like, you know… And when I realized that, you know, the importance of acknowledging all the women that came be- before me- Mm … and the import- the, the women and the men, but talking about when I went to look for preg- my pregnancy and, and everything that was happening with me, you know, how- Everything that happened before us are part of us.
• 5:12
  Fernanda: And it gave me a completely different perspective to life, you know?
• 5:16
  Fernanda: And-
• 5:17
  Tracy: Yeah, yeah.
• 5:18
  Tracy: I mean, you could take that term a hot bat to be menopause, but that's just where my brain went for a moment.
• 5:24
  Tracy: But that's a whole nother subject, right?
• 5:26
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 5:26
  Tracy: And, and you can say no to this, but do you, can you share a little bit about how that constellation unraveled?
• 5:32
  Tracy: Like, we're just jumping in here, but… And if you don't want to, that's okay as well.
• 5:36
  Fernanda: No, I'm happy to talk about, and I think, you know.
• 5:40
  Fernanda: So in the, in the constellation, pretty much, um, I had my feminine line, yeah?
• 5:48
  Fernanda: And I had, um, them, um, sharing motherhood as a task, not a maternal thing.
• 5:58
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 5:58
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 5:59
  Fernanda: Not, um… And, and, you know, I'm not saying that no one, that they didn't love their children, but falling pregnant, it was like an expectation.
• 6:10
  Tracy: Yes.
• 6:11
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 6:11
  Fernanda: Yeah?
• 6:12
  Tracy: It was expected.
• 6:13
  Tracy: It- You get pregnant.
• 6:13
  Tracy: You go, you get married, you get pregnant, you raise a family.
• 6:15
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 6:16
  Fernanda: That sort of thing.
• 6:16
  Fernanda: Like, you know, you, you have a family.
• 6:18
  Fernanda: You are the, the, the one that is, you know, popping babies.
• 6:22
  Fernanda: And they all had lots of children.
• 6:25
  Fernanda: And on my constellation, I asked permission for them for me to do different, and I had the blessing of them, you know, giving me… And one really special thing that happened, um, is that grandma said to me on the constellation, um, "I trust you. You can do different," right?
• 6:48
  Fernanda: Um, it took a long time for me to process the whole constellation, and I was… I didn't talk to anyone.
• 6:54
  Fernanda: I didn't talk to mom and grandma.
• 6:55
  Fernanda: Grandma was, is still alive.
• 6:57
  Fernanda: After, like, two months, I called Grandma, and I really wanted to ask, you know, like, about, you know,"How was when you had children?" And, and have that conversation.
• 7:08
  Fernanda: Anyway, we did have a conversation, but n- not as deep, and I didn't explain everything to her, but she repeated the same words- Wow … that the person that was representing Grandma here in Australia, and she was in Brazil, she said to me on the phone the same thing
• 7:27
  Tracy: Wow
• 7:28
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 7:29
  Fernanda: It's amazing, isn't it?
• 7:30
  Fernanda: It's what we were saying before we started, like, this work never stop to amaze.
• 7:35
  Fernanda: Like- Mm … it's just, um, so special.
• 7:38
  Fernanda: Like, for me, I see a constellation as a big present because it really gi- it can give us, like, a different perspective, you know?
• 7:47
  Fernanda: Mm-hmm.
• 7:47
  Fernanda: Like a different view, a different way of looking, you know?
• 7:50
  Fernanda: Like, and it's, um, somehow lighter.
• 7:54
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 7:55
  Tracy: I often say y- once you've looked at it through the lens of constellations, it's hard to… It's very difficult to look at it through another lens.
• 8:03
  Fernanda: It is.
• 8:04
  Fernanda: It is, isn't it?
• 8:05
  Fernanda: And I actually have a text, um, that, uh, my systemic, systemic education trainer gave it to me that talks about the, the, the lenses, you know, the glasses that we put on- Yeah and how it gives us a different perspective to life As a whole, like, you know, it-
• 8:24
  Tracy: Well, it, it's that systemic.
• 8:26
  Tracy: And I think, gosh, imagine if we taught our children to think systemically.
• 8:30
  Fernanda: Mm-hmm.
• 8:31
  Tracy: Mm.
• 8:31
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 8:32
  Fernanda: And that's what, um, when, you know, I always talk about systemic education as a… I did my Bachelor of Education in Brazil, so a teacher in Brazil.
• 8:43
  Fernanda: My qualification is not recognized in Australia, but I worked as a, in childcare here.
• 8:48
  Fernanda: And, um, yes, for education is amazing, but o- one thing is that systemic education, it's for life.
• 8:57
  Fernanda: Mm. It's not just for teachers.
• 9:00
  Fernanda: Yeah?
• 9:01
  Fernanda: Because it is how we perceive, you know, others.
• 9:05
  Fernanda: And everything that I learned in the course, that it was really talking about the classroom and the teacher, you know, and, and the relationship in a s- in a educational setting changed my life so much- Mm because, and you know, and, and everything that we learned there, it can be applied in your day-to-day life and can be applied for everyone.
• 9:31
  Fernanda: I like to say that it is for everyone that work with people.
• 9:34
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 9:35
  Fernanda: So, like, you know, on the course that I did, we had, like, different people from, you know, doctors, nurses, physiotherapists, like everyone that works with people, and it's just amazing.
• 9:48
  Fernanda: I, I think it's, um, we are very lucky to have access to those lenses.
• 9:55
  Tracy: Exactly.
• 9:55
  Tracy: Imagine if, if you went to the doctor, and rather than them just seeing you and, well, your, your symptom, they saw you and your system.
• 10:03
  Tracy: They looked at y- th- could see beyond you, right?
• 10:06
  Tracy: It is.
• 10:06
  Tracy: And what's happening in the system.
• 10:07
  Tracy: It
• 10:07
  Fernanda: is.
• 10:07
  Fernanda: Y- you'd need
• 10:07
  Tracy: more than 15 minutes though, wouldn't you?
• 10:10
  Tracy: Like, it's- … it's the medical system.
• 10:12
  Tracy: But I don't know what it's like in Australia, but we get 15 minutes with a doctor.
• 10:17
  Fernanda: No, if you get 15 minutes, you pay the higher price for a long appointment.
• 10:22
  Fernanda: If you, if you're in and out, you pay the, you know, 111 or 100 and whatever.
• 10:31
  Fernanda: But if you do a long one… The other day I was for 15 minutes, and I paid
• 10:37
  Tracy: $170.
• 10:37
  Tracy: Fudge cakes, really?
• 10:39
  Tracy: Wow.
• 10:40
  Fernanda: And, and it, and it is what you're saying.
• 10:42
  Fernanda: You know, unfortunately they're not even looking beyond anything.
• 10:46
  Fernanda: Yes.
• 10:46
  Fernanda: It's just symptom.
• 10:48
  Fernanda: You know, stop the symptom.
• 10:50
  Fernanda: It's not looking at you as a whole, isn't it?
• 10:53
  Fernanda: Um,
• 10:54
  Tracy: I- Gosh, let, let's put that one into the- I- into the field for the consciousness to… And we don't ha- we don't have to answer this.
• 11:00
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 11:00
  Tracy: We just put this out there.
• 11:02
  Tracy: What would it be like if, if, uh, more people could look systemically?
• 11:07
  Tracy: Yeah Just what would it be like?
• 11:10
  Tracy: How different would the world be?
• 11:12
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 11:12
  Fernanda: Look, um, I don't know if you have ever heard, but, um, in Brazil, we do have, um, constellation, like I said, um, in the educational, educational settings.
• 11:24
  Fernanda: You have doctors, uh, you have the lawyers.
• 11:28
  Fernanda: Oh, nice.
• 11:28
  Fernanda: So in the justice sy- system.
• 11:30
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 11:30
  Fernanda: And it is amazing, you know?
• 11:32
  Fernanda: Like, just to be able to be supported from, from this perspective, you know?
• 11:38
  Fernanda: Because it looks… It's like looking at a child with, um… You know, every day they, they're diagnosing and giving drugs.
• 11:49
  Fernanda: Mm.
• 11:49
  Fernanda: But looking at a, at a child considering their family system.
• 11:54
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 11:54
  Fernanda: Considering, you know, uh, beyond and not just trying to eliminate the problem.
• 12:02
  Tracy: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:03
  Tracy: I feel very lucky.
• 12:04
  Tracy: I've, I've had, I've had a couple of doctors train, uh, with me.
• 12:08
  Fernanda: Yeah?
• 12:09
  Tracy: And, um, one of them is very dedicated to making change in, in the, um, medical system, so in the way that things are-
• 12:20
  Fernanda: Yeah
• 12:20
  Tracy: seen and p- you know, perceived, so.
• 12:23
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 12:24
  Tracy: That's great.
• 12:24
  Tracy: So there's change happening this, so yeah.
• 12:27
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 12:27
  Tracy: Very, very lucky.
• 12:28
  Tracy: And I also have, I have another doctor booked in this year to train with me as well, so it's great.
• 12:33
  Tracy: And it's getting out there.
• 12:34
  Tracy: I've had teachers and educators and, you know, um, a real variety of people, so it's, it's getting out there.
• 12:40
  Tracy: Haven't had any judges yet.
• 12:43
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 12:43
  Tracy: 'Cause I do hear that the judges are, are keen.
• 12:45
  Tracy: Is that your little boy, is it?
• 12:47
  Fernanda: Mm.
• 12:47
  Tracy: Is he wanting to come in?
• 12:48
  Tracy: He can come in.
• 12:49
  Fernanda: Oh, he came and he was talking to me, and I just did like… But he's, he's okay.
• 12:53
  Tracy: That's like me too.
• 12:54
  Tracy: My son's talking to me and my hand goes like this.
• 12:56
  Tracy: Mm-hmm.
• 12:56
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 12:57
  Tracy: And I just continue to talk.
• 12:59
  Tracy: He's… My, my little boy's 20.
• 13:01
  Tracy: He's a man now, so-
• 13:02
  Fernanda: Yeah… Tracy: so I can get the gist a lot easier.
• 13:05
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 13:07
  Tracy: I've to stop calling him a boy.
• 13:08
  Tracy: Maria told me off the other day, uh,'cause I called my husband a boy as well.
• 13:12
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 13:13
  Tracy: I was, um… What's that?
• 13:14
  Tracy: 'Cause we were at the immersion, right?
• 13:16
  Tracy: In Otorotora.
• 13:17
  Tracy: She says, "And how's everything at home?" I said, "Oh, yeah, the boys are good." And she looked at me, she says, "Tracy, they are both men." I went, "The men are really good at home.
• 13:27
  Tracy: Thank you, Maria, for the reminder." You know?
• 13:30
  Tracy: I still, yeah, I call my daughters girls, but they're not.
• 13:33
  Tracy: They're women.
• 13:34
  Tracy: Sometimes we need a little gentle reminder from- Maria.
• 13:38
  Fernanda: And it is, isn't it?
• 13:39
  Fernanda: Like, I guess some things, um, that we do without thinking, sometimes it give us, gives us a message of how we are- Mm … you know, directing to and-
• 13:51
  Tracy: Well, it's also a little bit around what's there for you too, right?
• 13:55
  Tracy: If we're referring to everyone else as boys and girls.
• 13:58
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 13:59
  Tracy: What is that saying back to me?
• 13:59
  Tracy: Uh-huh.
• 14:00
  Fernanda: Yeah, that's what I mean.
• 14:01
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 14:02
  Fernanda: It says a lot about how we perceive the others or how we perceive ourselves, isn't it?
• 14:08
  Tracy: Yeah, yeah.
• 14:08
  Tracy: So it took me back a moment.
• 14:10
  Tracy: I was like, "Right.
• 14:11
  Tracy: Of g- yes.
• 14:12
  Tracy: Thank you.
• 14:13
  Tracy: Thank you for the reminder." And careful what we speak, you know?
• 14:16
  Tracy: The four agreements, um, be impeccable with your word is one of them, so.
• 14:20
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 14:21
  Tracy: So tell me, when you're talking with people, how do you describe family constellations?
• 14:27
  Tracy: How would you tell someone what you're up to?
• 14:29
  Fernanda: Mm. Look, um, where I live, it's something that it's not very well-known, so I often have those conversations, and I try to… I find that people understand, um, or if we talk about generational trauma, yeah?
• 14:49
  Fernanda: Because it gives them that perspective of, you know, different generations and things that get passed on to, to the young, to the new generation.
• 15:00
  Fernanda: Like, it's just a, um, I don't… Not a therapy, but a process that we do to bring to, to light what needs to be seen.
• 15:09
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 15:10
  Fernanda: And you know, I guess when we start talking about constellation, we can talk for many hours, isn't it?
• 15:15
  Fernanda: We're very passionate about it.
• 15:18
  Fernanda: So yeah.
• 15:19
  Fernanda: Uh, look, mm, you put me on the spot with
• 15:23
  Tracy: that one.
• 15:24
  Tracy: That's okay.
• 15:24
  Tracy: That was, that was really good anyway.
• 15:25
  Tracy: I mean, like you say, once, once you start that conversation, you're talking about the generational, um- Mm … and it flows, and it depends on who you're talking to
• 15:35
  Fernanda: too, doesn't it?
• 15:35
  Fernanda: It depends.
• 15:35
  Fernanda: It depends of their understanding or, you know, if they're open, if they're not.
• 15:40
  Fernanda: Sometimes you start talking to people- And, and they love it, isn't it?
• 15:46
  Fernanda: And they like, "Oh my gosh," and, and it's like something y- the conversation just flows.
• 15:52
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 15:52
  Fernanda: And sometimes you're talking to people that have no, no opening to look- Mm at mom and dad or you know?
• 15:59
  Fernanda: Like to- Yeah … look, um… I like to say like to take responsibility for their actions as well, because it is, it comes back to that as well, isn't it?
• 16:10
  Fernanda: Like, we don't do a family constellation and make magic.
• 16:14
  Fernanda: We do a family constellation, we bring something to… Like, we put light into something that needs to be seen, but we also need to, to take our responsibility and- Mm change things and, you know.
• 16:27
  Fernanda: It's not just, um, um, uh, you know, you don't make magic to something that happened in the past.
• 16:33
  Fernanda: It's
• 16:33
  Tracy: not about blaming.
• 16:34
  Tracy: It's about- No … seeing, seeing what's there.
• 16:37
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 16:37
  Fernanda: Seeing what's there.
• 16:38
  Fernanda: Exactly.
• 16:38
  Fernanda: And, and a lot of times taking responsibility.
• 16:41
  Fernanda: There's a lot of, you know, self, self-awareness of, how do I behave and what do I do?
• 16:48
  Fernanda: Oh, uh, I'm loyal.
• 16:50
  Fernanda: Am I doing the same?
• 16:52
  Fernanda: You know, one time I said to someone, to one of my trainers, I don't remember who, "Okay, I understand it's a loyalty.
• 17:01
  Fernanda: Yeah?
• 17:01
  Fernanda: Like it's something that is repeating.
• 17:03
  Fernanda: What do I do now?" Well, change.
• 17:06
  Fernanda: Now isn't it like it's a choice, but sometimes it's hard because it's like a unconscious choice that you just do it and, um, without even thinking, isn't it?
• 17:19
  Tracy: Well, once you, once you're aware of it.
• 17:21
  Tracy: That's the beauty of this, right?
• 17:23
  Tracy: Once you are aware of it and you see the patterns that you're entangled with, you have a choice
• 17:29
  Fernanda: to
• 17:29
  Tracy: change.
• 17:30
  Tracy: That's it.
• 17:30
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 17:30
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 17:31
  Fernanda: But even though sometimes we, we have a choice, I have been in situations or have seen, you know, that you are aware, but it's something that is so deep, so deep, there's so many layers of it to work on, that it's not just be aware, make a choice.
• 17:49
  Fernanda: It's a process, isn't it?
• 17:51
  Fernanda: Like we need-
• 17:52
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 17:52
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 17:54
  Fernanda: We need time to process.
• 17:56
  Tracy: Absolutely, and the layers.
• 17:59
  Tracy: The… Yeah, it's not a magic, um, fix.
• 18:02
  Fernanda: It's not.
• 18:03
  Tracy: But, but in saying that, there can be huge shifts from one constellation.
• 18:09
  Fernanda: It is, isn't it?
• 18:10
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 18:10
  Fernanda: It, it feels like magic sometimes.
• 18:12
  Fernanda: But it's not magic.
• 18:14
  Fernanda: Mm. We use the word, but it's not.
• 18:15
  Fernanda: Of course it's not.
• 18:17
  Fernanda: But it, you know, it takes some… It depends of how deep it is.
• 18:22
  Fernanda: It depends of, you know, sometimes you, you can process something that is not as deep in a shorter period of time, and sometimes it takes a long time to process.
• 18:34
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 18:34
  Tracy: It does.
• 18:36
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 18:37
  Tracy: And sometimes there's many n-
• 18:39
  Fernanda: other layers, right- Many.
• 18:40
  Fernanda: Exactly … come up.
• 18:40
  Fernanda: Yeah Like, I think, I think my first constellation, I just really fully, or maybe not even fully, but, like, got a deeper understanding after a few years.
• 18:54
  Fernanda: You know?
• 18:54
  Fernanda: 'Cause I was then- Mm … you know, after a few different trainings and whatnot, and I looked back and I was like, "Oh, that would've…" You know?
• 19:03
  Fernanda: Like- Yeah … sometime- w- it takes time for us to process and, um, to integrate.
• 19:09
  Fernanda: Sometimes it take time to integrate as well, isn't it?
• 19:13
  Tracy: Yeah, it does.
• 19:14
  Tracy: It does.
• 19:14
  Tracy: How do you, um… 'Cause you have worked with children- Yeah … and in a care- caregiving space as well?
• 19:23
  Fernanda: In the childcare, and then
• 19:25
  Tracy: after-
• 19:25
  Fernanda: And a support
• 19:25
  Tracy: worker… Fernanda: as a support worker, yeah.
• 19:27
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 19:28
  Tracy: So how do, how does constellations play a part in that?
• 19:32
  Tracy: Has it?
• 19:33
  Fernanda: Oh, it play, it plays, um, a, a big part.
• 19:36
  Fernanda: Or, I think having that awareness that everyone comes from a family with a different reality, with different traumas, with different, you know, um, different paths and whatnot, it is a really big change for me, as a teacher or, you know, working with children, um, from before and after me having that awareness, before and after me- Mm taking the blinkers off.
• 20:07
  Fernanda: Because when we take into consideration that that child that is in front of you acting out, misbehaving, having difficulties, that they have a past and that, you know, they have things from their previous generations that have a massive impact on who they are- Mm-hmm… it's a, a completely different ballgame.
• 20:29
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 20:29
  Fernanda: Having that awareness that we attract to each other, we attract ourselves things that we need to learn.
• 20:37
  Fernanda: We attract ourselves what resonate with our own story.
• 20:43
  Fernanda: Yeah?
• 20:43
  Fernanda: Mm-hmm.
• 20:43
  Fernanda: So one way or the other, sometimes it's gonna come because I need to see something, yeah,
• 20:50
  Tracy: or- Did you hear that?
• 20:50
  Tracy: There's a whole lot of people going, "Ah," as they hear that.
• 20:57
  Tracy: I, I just had a moment of that myself.
• 20:59
  Tracy: Ah, yeah
• 21:01
  Fernanda: But it is… Tracy: just a reminder.
• 21:02
  Fernanda: Exactly And, and again, it takes us back to being responsible for our own, you know, like our own awareness of what do we need to learn?
• 21:13
  Fernanda: What, you know.
• 21:14
  Fernanda: Um, like in, in a classroom, n- talking about me as a teacher, as an educator or s- uh, center manager, we have so many families coming and talking to you, and children with, you know, families with different situations happening.
• 21:32
  Fernanda: And you see, uh, you know, um, that teacher that gets very triggered about that family that are breaking up, you know?
• 21:43
  Fernanda: And some, every now and then, because I did the systemic education, you know, like we look into those layers, and then y- y- I used to have a chat with the, the educator and they're like,"Oh yeah, um, I'm breaking up with my partner," for example, you know?
• 21:59
  Fernanda: I'm just using as an example.
• 22:01
  Fernanda: It's not, you know.
• 22:02
  Fernanda: I think the c- family constellation really brought to me that awareness of the other person, of not being judgmental if something is happening.
• 22:12
  Fernanda: And if I'm triggered by something, I, I often ask, "What do I have to see? What do I have to learn from it?" Mm. And I'll tell you, every time there's something.
• 22:26
  Fernanda: You know?
• 22:27
  Fernanda: Every time there's a message, and, and that's the biggest gift.
• 22:34
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 22:34
  Fernanda: It is not, you know… We're all gonna have things that will make us, you know, like that you feel upset through the day, and you have, you know, people that will come to you or, you know, clients, family, whatever, that will trigger us.
• 22:51
  Fernanda: But these, um, constellations or this view in life allow me to look more within-
• 23:02
  Tracy: Mm… Fernanda: and question within what, That's true.
• 23:11
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 23:13
  Tracy: So now, 'cause you're not in that role anymore, you're in a … You've just started a new role, which was a constellation in itself.
• 23:19
  Tracy: How do you see your I guess it's probably an ongoing of what you've just shared.
• 23:25
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 23:26
  Fernanda: And look, when I left the school, when I went to support work, right, I had different experiences, and it's exactly what you just said.
• 23:35
  Fernanda: It is this just rolling out that what I used to do in a classroom, but o- on a one-on-one relation.
• 23:41
  Fernanda: Mm. One-on- one-on-one relation, right?
• 23:45
  Fernanda: Because it's o- one clo- client.
• 23:47
  Fernanda: And I think it is really that, like, the self-awareness of me and the other person, of not being judgmental, of always trying to, to be respectful and acknowledging, you know, everything that came.
• 24:05
  Fernanda: Like, I was working with a few children from … that don't have, you know, um, that are under child safety.
• 24:13
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 24:14
  Fernanda: And, um, whatever happened with their families, it's important for us to acknowledge that they have, you know, they have mom and dad.
• 24:24
  Fernanda: Mm. Regardless if they did something right or wrong, they have mom and dad, and it's important for them to be respected and included.
• 24:33
  Fernanda: So-
• 24:33
  Tracy: Yeah… Fernanda: um, you know, I heard a- And just, and just holding that, I think even just holding that in your heart when you're with those children or the people, you know, the ones that are in, um, foster care or- Mm or anything like that and, or the situations where you know they've been … that hasn't been safe for them to be with their family of origin.
• 24:52
  Tracy: But knowing that- It
• 24:54
  Fernanda: has a-… Tracy: they have that … a massive, uh … It does have an impact- Mm … just acknowledging and, and, you know, holding that in your heart.
• 25:04
  Fernanda: I remember, um, Mary Ann Frank, um, she's talking from a perspective of a classroom, but I took this to life, right?
• 25:13
  Fernanda: And she says, "Every time you are in a classroom, or every time that you, you are with someone that you are having difficulties, imagine mom and dad behind."
• 25:23
  Tracy: Mm.
• 25:24
  Fernanda: Every time.
• 25:25
  Fernanda: Why?
• 25:26
  Fernanda: Because there's something that they are bringing from their mom and dad that has a … resonating with something from my own story.
• 25:37
  Fernanda: Mm.
• 25:38
  Fernanda: And, and this is so powerful.
• 25:42
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 25:42
  Fernanda: So powerful.
• 25:44
  Fernanda: And I, I use that constantly.
• 25:47
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 25:47
  Fernanda: A- And, and I just, you know, I had, like, for example, clients that were very aggressive, and, and everyone was very scared.
• 26:00
  Fernanda: I was arriving at the house and thinking, you know, acknowledging- All the ancestors and, you know, being present, being supportive.
• 26:13
  Fernanda: And I saw, uh, I wasn't scared because I was there, you know, fully.
• 26:21
  Fernanda: So yeah, I think, um, I use that as a really big tool for, for life.
• 26:27
  Fernanda: It's not even just- Yeah … at work.
• 26:30
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 26:31
  Tracy: Brilliant.
• 26:32
  Tracy: You shared a little bit earlier about s- some of the… When I asked you about the names of your teachers.
• 26:36
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 26:37
  Tracy: Is there… Do you have a favorite teacher in this work?
• 26:40
  Tracy: Favorites?
• 26:41
  Fernanda: I have many.
• 26:43
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 26:43
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 26:45
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 26:45
  Fernanda: It… Yeah, I have many.
• 26:46
  Fernanda: That's a safe answer,
• 26:47
  Tracy: isn't it?
• 26:47
  Tracy: Yes.
• 26:47
  Tracy: Love it.
• 26:47
  Tracy: No, I have
• 26:49
  Fernanda: many.
• 26:50
  Fernanda: I have many.
• 26:51
  Fernanda: And, you know, I believe every teacher, every trainer that we have, they give you different perspectives.
• 27:00
  Fernanda: And we can, you know, get a little bit from each person.
• 27:04
  Fernanda: You know, sometimes you're gonna go to an, uh, a retreat with another trainer or, you know, and not everyone… Like, we won't identify with everyone, right, at all times for your own work.
• 27:17
  Fernanda: And I think that it's so abundant.
• 27:20
  Fernanda: There's so many trainers out there- Mm … that I, and I have had so, so many that I love and really, um, could stay here, like, talking about many of them.
• 27:33
  Fernanda: But no, I don't think one person in particular.
• 27:37
  Fernanda: It's, um, a package.
• 27:38
  Tracy: Great.
• 27:39
  Tracy: How have you seen this work, um, in your wider family?
• 27:43
  Tracy: So say, for example, you did a piece of work, and like you said, you sh- you spoke to your, um, grandmother and-
• 27:50
  Fernanda: Yeah… Tracy: she said the same words.
• 27:51
  Fernanda: But have, how have you seen the shifts within your family's system that you think, that you feel may be related to, to the work at, at any point?
• 28:01
  Fernanda: Oh, ma- like really, really good.
• 28:04
  Fernanda: You know, of course, mum, my mum went and did a family constellation herself.
• 28:10
  Fernanda: Um- Oh,
• 28:10
  Tracy: brilliant… Fernanda: went to, you know, wherever her, for what she could manage.
• 28:18
  Tracy: Um, one interesting thing is that I just remember, um, in the last, last two years of my grandma, I think, or maybe the last, I, I bought a lot of books from, uh, family constellation in Brazil.
• 28:33
  Tracy: And, um, I sent to her house And in the, she kept call, she kept, every time that we talked she was like, "I'm reading this book from Bert Hellinger.
• 28:46
  Tracy: Can we talk about such and such?
• 28:48
  Tracy: What is this thing?
• 28:49
  Tracy: Why is he talking about people that, that, you know, that passed away?" And it was so interesting because I was- Wow diving on my training.
• 28:59
  Tracy: And she was, you know, in cont- like, she had the books there and she loved reading.
• 29:06
  Tracy: And in the e- end of her life, she read a few of Bert Hellinger's book.
• 29:12
  Tracy: Fantastic.
• 29:12
  Tracy: She
• 29:12
  Fernanda: never did family constellation.
• 29:15
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 29:15
  Fernanda: But every time that we talked, we were talking about family constellation.
• 29:20
  Fernanda: It was very special.
• 29:21
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 29:22
  Tracy: That's very cool.
• 29:23
  Fernanda: Um-
• 29:23
  Tracy: Very cool… Fernanda: my brother did Um, often talks to me.
• 29:30
  Tracy: My father, not, not very much.
• 29:33
  Tracy: Um, and yeah, I do have a cousin that is also a family constellator and works.
• 29:39
  Tracy: Um, but I think, yeah, I see more just like with my mom and my brother and- And becau- the beautiful thing about the work is, right, is that the family doesn't even have to do the work-
• 29:51
  Fernanda: No
• 29:52
  Tracy: to receive the benefits of it.
• 29:53
  Tracy: It's, it's, you know, if you're doing your work-
• 29:57
  Fernanda: Yeah… Tracy: there may, there may be are entangled with it or- Yeah… Fernanda: if they- I remember a, a So, um, my son is eight, and until a, I think six months ago, he was still, um, doing wee in the bed.
• 30:19
  Fernanda: My mother went to do a family constellation, and she wanted to do, and she came and asked me for someone for me to, to, you know,"Oh, who can I do with?" And I said,"Oh, I don't know, this friend, that friend." You know, gave her some names.
• 30:35
  Fernanda: And she said, "Look, I'm gonna constellate my UTI, 'cause I keep having reoccurring UTIs." Anyway, after that, like she went and did her thing, and I had a piece with, um, a, a facilitator about what was happening here, yeah, with him.
• 31:00
  Fernanda: We did, we did the process, and it kind of settled, but it was still happening.
• 31:06
  Fernanda: When she did hers, that it was about the, the bladder, yeah-
• 31:12
  Tracy: Mm-hmm… Fernanda: her bladder Wow.
• 31:16
  Tracy: Holding it for the system.
• 31:17
  Fernanda: Uh-huh.
• 31:18
  Fernanda: And the interesting thing is that after she did and she came and told me what happened on her constellation, I said,"Stop everything." And she's like,"Why?" And I said, "Because I did one with, about Noah, and what came up to his one, it was the same thing that came up to your one, and it wasn't… You know?" Yes.
• 31:37
  Fernanda: So she did her process, and then he completely stopped.
• 31:42
  Tracy: Beautiful.
• 31:43
  Tracy: So there was a little bit more to do.
• 31:45
  Fernanda: How cool is that?
• 31:46
  Tracy: That's very cool.
• 31:47
  Tracy: Oh, it's amazing, isn't it, what we carry?
• 31:49
  Tracy: You're thinking of your boy and how he was carrying that for your mom, but how, um, often we think these things are, are, start with us, but they don't.
• 31:59
  Tracy: You know?
• 32:00
  Tracy: And not saying that we don't create our own stuff.
• 32:05
  Tracy: Obviously we do, but there is always that very large percentage of, of, uh, of us repeating the cycle, repeating, repeating the patterns and, yeah.
• 32:16
  Tracy: Brilliant stuff.
• 32:18
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 32:18
  Tracy: Let's see.
• 32:18
  Tracy: What other questions have we got for you?
• 32:21
  Tracy: You run workshops?
• 32:22
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 32:23
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 32:25
  Fernanda: So here in… I live in a l- very small town, and I started… So last year I went to Margaret's, um, training that it was about working with groups.
• 32:39
  Tracy: Mm-hmm.
• 32:40
  Fernanda: And then, um, I came back, and when I came back is when I stepped out of my role as a center manager in childcare, and then I started having groups here in Mareeba.
• 32:52
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 32:52
  Tracy: Mareeba?
• 32:54
  Fernanda: Mareeba, yeah.
• 32:55
  Tracy: Where's that?
• 32:57
  Fernanda: Um, 40 minutes from Cairns in Far North Queensland.
• 33:02
  Tracy: Okay.
• 33:03
  Tracy: Beautiful.
• 33:04
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 33:05
  Tracy: Sorry, my phone's just going.
• 33:07
  Tracy: Okay, so you're running workshops there, and do you see clients one on one as well?
• 33:11
  Fernanda: As well, yeah.
• 33:12
  Fernanda: I tend to do a lot more online and a lot with Brazil as well.
• 33:18
  Fernanda: Mm. I do have, you know, a few, um, studying groups, um, in Brazil that we read books together and then to, like we, you know, we… Everyone on Zoom, and then we s- it's not like just reading because sometimes we stop and we have a process and then, you know, we go back to the book.
• 33:40
  Fernanda: And sometimes we open and instead of reading, we ended up just sharing because everyone has too much going on.
• 33:47
  Fernanda: But always with the systemic lens.
• 33:49
  Tracy: Beautiful.
• 33:50
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 33:51
  Tracy: Beautiful.
• 33:51
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 33:52
  Tracy: So if someone wanted to get ahold of you, how would they find you?
• 33:55
  Fernanda: I have my Instagram that is Vida Connecting Generation.
• 33:59
  Tracy: Can you spell
• 34:01
  Fernanda: that?
• 34:01
  Fernanda: Vida, V-I-D-A And then Connecting Generations
• 34:06
  Tracy: Connecting Generations, yep
• 34:08
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 34:09
  Fernanda: And, um, on, yeah, on my Instagram, and I have my Facebook, but, uh, Fernanda Vitali.
• 34:17
  Tracy: Beautiful.
• 34:18
  Tracy: Beautiful.
• 34:18
  Tracy: I just always like to ask that question, 'cause, you know, sometimes if someone's listening to this and they're really, um, they're hearing you, they're hearing your voice and they're hearing what you're saying, and it's just nice to, to have that connection.
• 34:30
  Tracy: And we will put that, those links in the thread as well.
• 34:33
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 34:33
  Fernanda: Awesome.
• 34:34
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 34:35
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 34:36
  Tracy: Is there anything that you'd like, else that you'd like to share, that you feel like is sitting there for you for the audience in the field today?
• 34:44
  Fernanda: No.
• 34:44
  Fernanda: No, I'm just glad to be here, glad that I had the opportunity to join the conference, the immersion.
• 34:52
  Fernanda: That it was, oh gosh, a big pre- a big present in life, I'll tell you.
• 34:57
  Fernanda: Mm. I love your culture, love, I love being in your country.
• 35:02
  Fernanda: It's just amazing.
• 35:03
  Tracy: Yeah, it's great, and such a good experience, isn't it?
• 35:05
  Tracy: And it was so great to see you there again- Yeah … to have you with us.
• 35:09
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 35:10
  Fernanda: Very good.
• 35:10
  Fernanda: It was so special.
• 35:11
  Tracy: Very good.
• 35:12
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 35:13
  Tracy: Well, I really look forward to seeing where you take this work, especially, um, with the variety of work that you do, the systemic lens that you're looking through, and-
• 35:23
  Fernanda: Yeah
• 35:24
  Tracy: um, and knowing that you are in a position to make change in-
• 35:30
  Fernanda: Yeah,
• 35:31
  Tracy: I- … in the work that you're doing now.
• 35:32
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 35:32
  Fernanda: He- I did some connections this week actually, um, and we are looking to the possibility of bringing some workshops to young people.
• 35:41
  Fernanda: Like, not young people.
• 35:42
  Fernanda: I don't mean children, but you know, um, more youth, you know?
• 35:48
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 35:48
  Fernanda: Like, older.
• 35:49
  Fernanda: Young adults is the right word.
• 35:52
  Tracy: Young adults.
• 35:53
  Tracy: Yeah, and it's, I mean, there are so many different vital times in life, right?
• 35:57
  Tracy: But there's that transition period when you're coming in t- from, from teenage into that young adult stage, and it can be really confusing.
• 36:05
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 36:05
  Tracy: I think often those milestone years are- You know, as you go through those.
• 36:11
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 36:12
  Tracy: Great.
• 36:13
  Tracy: That's really cool.
• 36:15
  Fernanda: Yeah, it's exciting.
• 36:16
  Tracy: So is dad still with you?
• 36:18
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 36:18
  Tracy: Is he still around?
• 36:19
  Tracy: Yep.
• 36:20
  Tracy: Does he… How have you seen this work with him, particularly seeing that your mom's been doing it as well?
• 36:26
  Fernanda: I don't think that Dad is very open to look within.
• 36:32
  Fernanda: And, um, and it's okay.
• 36:35
  Fernanda: It's not for everyone.
• 36:36
  Fernanda: That-
• 36:36
  Tracy: that's right.
• 36:37
  Tracy: That must be why that question was gonna… it was coming in, because it was like, I think often because there is a very large percentage of women doing this work, um, and then it's okay to not have the men doing it, if that's, you know, like it… Hmm, well, I'm not explaining this very well.
• 36:55
  Tracy: Like, I look at my husband and he isn't, um, at all interested in what I do in my work.
• 37:02
  Tracy: Mm-hmm.
• 37:02
  Tracy: We'll say that.
• 37:04
  Tracy: But he's there to support me.
• 37:06
  Fernanda: And- Exactly.
• 37:07
  Fernanda: Same thing, uh, here at my house.
• 37:10
  Fernanda: Not open at all, but if I say Immersion New Zealand he says, "You can go. I'm gonna have time off." So you know.
• 37:20
  Fernanda: It's amazing to have the support, isn't it?
• 37:23
  Tracy: It is.
• 37:23
  Tracy: It is.
• 37:24
  Tracy: And, and I think there's a little bit of an osmosis thing that goes on.
• 37:28
  Tracy: That's what I have noticed.
• 37:30
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 37:30
  Tracy: That, uh, even though my husband doesn't dabble in the work or, or experience it himself, there is some… He's soaking it up through osmosis, through me.
• 37:41
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 37:42
  Tracy: They do- The ripple effects, and- They see the
• 37:43
  Fernanda: changes on us, yeah.
• 37:45
  Tracy: Hmm.
• 37:46
  Tracy: Hmm.
• 37:47
  Tracy: I know there was a l- period of time when I did first start, uh, my healing journey many years ago where I really wanted him to be on board with me, and that was so… I found it f- so frustrating, but that was my ego, right?
• 37:59
  Tracy: Mm-hmm.
• 37:59
  Tracy: Driving the bus.
• 38:01
  Tracy: And then once I came to peace with, oh, that's not his pathway in it, it's not w- he's not there to do this.
• 38:09
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 38:09
  Tracy: Not his role.
• 38:10
  Tracy: His role is to support you and what you wanna do- That's it … indeed.
• 38:13
  Tracy: You know?
• 38:13
  Tracy: Exactly.
• 38:14
  Tracy: And you have your role in other parts of the family, and it's like, ah, nice.
• 38:19
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 38:19
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 38:19
  Fernanda: My partner said to me one time, "Oh, do you wanna go to, uh," I don't even… I don't remember how long, but, like, v- very, very long hiking.
• 38:28
  Fernanda: And I said, "Only if you come for a constellation." And he says, "Okay, I'm going." And I'm like, "No worries."
• 38:35
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 38:35
  Fernanda: Because it is.
• 38:36
  Fernanda: Everyone is different, and you know, like, we need to make peace with the… Not we need, but it's important, it was for me, to make peace with the fact that- It's not because I'm doing that everyone else will do, you know?
• 38:50
  Fernanda: That's
• 38:50
  Tracy: right.
• 38:50
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 38:51
  Fernanda: And it's important to accept the fact that everyone, they, they have their own choices, isn't it?
• 38:58
  Fernanda: Mm. One thing that I didn't touch base, um, that I guess, um, it is, uh, something that I love doing, and I did a lot online, it's, uh, organizing events and family constellations.
• 39:13
  Fernanda: And I did, a few years ago, went to Brazil to organize an event-
• 39:18
  Tracy: Wow
• 39:19
  Fernanda: with Larissy, that is, um, a really special, uh, uh, facilitator from Brazil.
• 39:25
  Fernanda: And, uh, we did a retreat in a hotel, and we had 50 women that came to the, to the retreat, and that's, um, something that really talks to my heart.
• 39:36
  Tracy: Beautiful.
• 39:37
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 39:37
  Tracy: Yeah, we'll watch this space, hey?
• 39:39
  Tracy: Mm. See what you're gonna create.
• 39:41
  Tracy: Watch that space.
• 39:43
  Tracy: Well, thank you so much for agreeing- Mm … to come on and sharing your time.
• 39:46
  Tracy: I know this takes precious time away from your son.
• 39:49
  Tracy: He's just home from school.
• 39:51
  Tracy: So I really appreciate you- Thank you… um, you coming on and, yeah, and sharing this time with me and the audience.
• 39:58
  Fernanda: Yeah.
• 39:58
  Fernanda: Thank you so much for inviting me and for having me here.
• 40:02
  Tracy: My
• 40:02
  Fernanda: pleasure.
• 40:03
  Fernanda: Really appreciate.
• 40:04
  Tracy: My pleasure.
• 40:05
  Tracy: Thank you for listening.
• 40:07
  Tracy: Head over to Instagram and tell me what's resonated for you with this episode.
• 40:11
  Tracy: You'll find me at tracey.cartwright, that's Tracey with no E, .cartwright.
• 40:18
  Tracy: And, or head over to my website, traceycartwright.co.nz, and receive a free audio with a gift from your ancestors.
• 40:27
  Tracy: So until next time, be kind to yourself and have fun doing it.