Latest / Making Medicine / Ohio’s Biotech Boom: Gene Therapy, Investment & the Race with China

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Ohio’s Biotech Boom: Gene Therapy, Investment & the Race with China · Making Medicine

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: At Making Medicine, we're reporting on the headlines, not making
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: medical recommendations. For personal health questions, always ask your doctor.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Nothing in this episode constitutes investment, financial, or legal advice.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Consult your own advisors before making decisions.
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  Speaker 2: The investment and eagerness of China to lead in this
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  Speaker 2: space is in fact real. People are paying attention and
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  Speaker 2: the investment that that country's making is going to continue
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  Speaker 2: to increase and we're behind. What's most exciting about what's
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  Speaker 2: happening here right now is the fact that big life
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: science brands are coming here. They're growing here. We're attracting
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  Speaker 2: tremendous talent.
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  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Making Medicine podcast, where science, policy,
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: and innovation meet. I'm your host, John Stanford. When people
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  Speaker 1: talk about America's biotech hubs, the conversation often starts and
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  Speaker 1: ends with Boston and San Francisco. But today we're heading
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  Speaker 1: to the Midwest to talk about a state that has
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  Speaker 1: built one of the most complete life science ecosystems in
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  Speaker 1: the country. That is Ohio. Our guest is Eddie Pauline,
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  Speaker 1: president and CEO of Ohio Life Sciences, the statewide association
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  Speaker 1: representing the industry. Eddie took the helm in 2021 when
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  Speaker 1: the organization was still known as BioOhio. And before that,
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  Speaker 1: Eddie led economic development work at The Ohio State University,
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  Speaker 1: bringing companies to the state and helping them grow. Since then,
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  Speaker 1: he's become one of the most active voices connecting Ohio's
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  Speaker 1: ecosystem to the policy debates in Washington, from SBIR funding
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  Speaker 1: and the pill penalty to most favored nation pricing and
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  Speaker 1: FDA flexibility for rare disease.
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  Speaker 2: We're going to walk through the whole chain with Eddie.
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  Speaker 1: How research at Ohio's universities and hospitals become companies, what
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  Speaker 1: it takes to fund a company, especially in a state
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  Speaker 1: like Ohio, and why decisions made in Washington impact a
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  Speaker 1: state working this hard to win life science investment. Let's
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  Speaker 1: get into the show. Before we turn to Eddie, some
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  Speaker 1: late breaking news. We want to start with the latest
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  Speaker 1: on the globe and guard models we previously covered on
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: Making Medicine. On September 30th, CMS finalized the Global Benchmark
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: for Efficient Drug Pricing Model, or GLOBE. We've covered this
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  Speaker 1: in past episodes, but to summarize, it's a mandatory Medicare
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  Speaker 1: Part B demonstration that ties U.S. drug reimbursement more closely
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  Speaker 1: to prices paid in other developed countries. So what exactly
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  Speaker 1: does that mean? GLOBE is being run through the CMS
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  Speaker 1: Innovation Center, or CMMI, which Congress created to test new
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  Speaker 1: ways of paying for healthcare. Under GLOBE, CMS will change
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  Speaker 1: how it calculates inflation rebates for certain medicines covered under
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  Speaker 1: Medicare Part B, which are generally physician-administered drugs such as
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  Speaker 1: cancer therapies and medicines for autoimmune diseases. The key change
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  Speaker 1: is that CMS will use drug prices in 19 other
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  Speaker 1: countries to establish an international benchmark.
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  Speaker 2: If the U.S.
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  Speaker 1: Price for an included medicine is above that benchmark, the
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  Speaker 1: manufacturer can owe Medicare an additional rebate. Most notably, it's
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  Speaker 1: not voluntary. Manufacturers of drugs that meet the eligibility criteria
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  Speaker 1: are required to participate, and the model will apply to
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  Speaker 1: randomly selected geographic areas covering about a quarter of all
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  Speaker 1: Medicare beneficiaries. But there were some significant changes between the
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  Speaker 1: proposed rule and what CMS finalized this week. First, the
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  Speaker 1: model got dramatically smaller. CMS originally projected nearly $ 12 billion
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  Speaker 1: in Medicare Part B savings over seven years. The final
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  Speaker 1: estimate in the final rule is just $ 440 million. One
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  Speaker 1: big reason is that CMS added several new exclusions. The
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  Speaker 1: final rule exempts orphan-only drugs, plasma-derived products, and certain cell
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  Speaker 1: and gene therapies. But possibly the biggest item is that
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  Speaker 1: CMS will also waive mandatory GLOBE participation for manufacturers participating
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  Speaker 1: in the separate generous drug pricing model. That change alone
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  Speaker 1: removes a substantial amount of Part B drug spending from GLOBE.
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  Speaker 1: The result is striking. Drugs covered by the proposed model
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  Speaker 1: represent roughly 55% of eligible spending as proposed, but under
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  Speaker 1: the final rule, CMS estimates that will fall to roughly 3%.
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  Speaker 1: CMS is also delaying implementation. The model officially begins January 1, 2027,
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  Speaker 1: But that first quarter is essentially a reporting period. Manufacturers
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  Speaker 1: begin submitting international pricing information, and the first actual performance
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  Speaker 1: period begins April 1st, 2027. The model then runs through
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  Speaker 1: March 2032, and rebate reconciliation will continue for two more
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  Speaker 1: years all the way to 2034. Despite those changes, the
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  Speaker 1: fundamental policy did not change. Still uses prices from 19
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  Speaker 1: foreign countries like Canada, Germany, Japan, South Korea, and the
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  Speaker 1: United Kingdom to determine what manufacturers ultimately owe Medicare. And
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  Speaker 1: it still represents a significant expansion of MFN-style pricing in
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  Speaker 1: the Medicare program. That's why Incubate continues to oppose the model.
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  Speaker 1: In our comments to CMS earlier this year, Incubate warned
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  Speaker 1: that MFN-style policies create uncertainty for early-stage biotech companies because
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  Speaker 1: they tie future reimbursement to pricing decisions made by foreign governments.
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  Speaker 1: which are decisions, frankly, that innovators and investors can't necessarily
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  Speaker 1: predict and certainly can't control. Incubate's 2026 investor survey found
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  Speaker 1: that 87% of investors said federal price-setting policies like MFN
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  Speaker 1: would reduce U.S. biotech investment. In a statement we just released,
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  Speaker 1: we said that developing a new medicine requires years of research,
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  Speaker 1: billions of dollars of investment, and a willingness to accept
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  Speaker 1: extraordinary risk. When government policy changes, the expected value of
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  Speaker 1: a successful medicine changes that calculus in the first place.
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  Speaker 1: So while the immediate financial impact of this model is
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  Speaker 1: certainly much smaller than CMS originally proposed, the underlying mechanism remains,
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  Speaker 1: and we remain opposed. The debate around Globe is therefore
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  Speaker 1: about more than the roughly $ 400 million it might save.
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  Speaker 1: It's about whether international reference pricing should become a larger
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  Speaker 1: part of how the US values medicines. Eddie, welcome to
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  Speaker 1: the show.
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  Speaker 2: Glad to be here, John. Really always enjoy an opportunity
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  Speaker 2: to catch up and talk about Ohio.
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  Speaker 1: Well, that's what we're going to be doing. But before
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  Speaker 1: we jump into Ohio, the question we always get from
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  Speaker 1: listeners is, How did so-and-so get to where they are?
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  Speaker 1: And so for folks who don't know the Eddie story,
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  Speaker 1: walk us through how you got into economic development in
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  Speaker 1: Ohio and then how you found yourself in the life sciences.
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  Speaker 2: Sure, sure. I wish there was some intentionality behind it,
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  Speaker 2: but it was a tad random, my path to economic development.
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  Speaker 2: I'll start with my, I guess, time at the Ohio
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  Speaker 2: State University I was there for about 12 years and
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  Speaker 2: served in a couple different interesting roles there. First, got
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  Speaker 2: to Ohio State after spending time in Seattle and New
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  Speaker 2: York working in sort of the venture capital space and
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  Speaker 2: for a few startups. Classic Ohio story of at some
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  Speaker 2: point wanting to come back to be closer to family
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  Speaker 2: after being on the coast for a little bit. So
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  Speaker 2: came back to a a role at Ohio state, uh,
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  Speaker 2: where I was, uh, charged with building out a leadership
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  Speaker 2: development program for, uh, upperclassmen at the university. Uh, they,
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  Speaker 2: the university had an opportunity to build something sort of, uh,
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  Speaker 2: almost like a finishing school for, uh, for upperclassmen there, uh,
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  Speaker 2: give them a little taste of, uh, what it was
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  Speaker 2: going to be like to work in the real world. Uh,
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  Speaker 2: we built a two-year curriculum, uh, that, uh, exposed them to, um,
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  Speaker 2: business and different industries they didn't typically get to interact
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  Speaker 2: with as undergraduates. We built the program with alumni support
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  Speaker 2: and integrated alumni into the program, but it gave me
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  Speaker 2: a really interesting opportunity to kind of have one foot
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  Speaker 2: in the university, one foot in the business world. From
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  Speaker 2: that role, the university ended up building out what they
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  Speaker 2: called a corporate engagement office out of the Office of Research.
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  Speaker 2: I went over there as an early employee to help
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  Speaker 2: build out that office and became our director of economic development.
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  Speaker 2: And what that really meant was that I was sort
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  Speaker 2: of a chief cat herder, making sure that our economic
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  Speaker 2: development partners and industry knew what capabilities, assets the university
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  Speaker 2: had and how we could incorporate those into really winning
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  Speaker 2: more deals for the state or making sure that the
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  Speaker 2: companies that we already had here knew how to access
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  Speaker 2: the university and, you know, figured out how the university
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  Speaker 2: could help grow industry. So that got me close to
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  Speaker 2: the economic development space and, you know, when I was
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  Speaker 2: at the university, um, a lot of the projects that
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  Speaker 2: I started to work on from the economic development standpoint were, uh,
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  Speaker 2: were life science related. Uh, one of the final projects
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  Speaker 2: I worked on was, uh, helping recruit Amgen to, and, um,
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  Speaker 2: sort of simultaneously this opportunity opened up the lead, uh,
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  Speaker 2: our state bio association and, uh, ended up raising my
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  Speaker 2: hand for that. And, uh, uh, Moved over to what
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  Speaker 2: is now called Ohio Life Sciences uh, in, uh, August
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  Speaker 2: of 2021. So been, been here for about five years now, but, uh,
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  Speaker 2: you know, I, at the time I, I sort of
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  Speaker 2: own the, uh, the fact that, uh, you know, I didn't,
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  Speaker 2: I didn't, I couldn't go real deep into biotech, but
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  Speaker 2: I certainly knew economic development policy, uh, corporate relations and
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  Speaker 2: that all, uh, became really valuable, um, uh, skills in
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  Speaker 2: leading this industry association.
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  Speaker 1: Well, simultaneous to your five years there, Ohio has just
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  Speaker 1: steadily ranked and, you know, we'll say it, you might
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  Speaker 1: not say it, but we'll just say it's the Eddie
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  Speaker 1: era has clearly moved Ohio up. And so many of
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  Speaker 1: the conversations about America's biotech economic engine get focused in
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  Speaker 1: coastal areas, in the Bay Area and in Boston. But
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  Speaker 1: Ohio is just steadily growing and growing. You now have
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  Speaker 1: a complete ecosystem. What do you attribute that growth to
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  Speaker 1: besides you taking the helm of the organization? What else
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  Speaker 1: were the factors that have made Ohio a force to
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  Speaker 1: be reckoned with in the life sciences?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, Ohio has been thinking about how to
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  Speaker 2: grow its life science industry for, you know, 40 years.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, uh, you know, uh, uh, Governor Voinovich, I think,
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  Speaker 2: created something called the Thomas Edison Program. That program seeded
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  Speaker 2: funding for six, what they called Edison Centers. It was
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  Speaker 2: advanced manufacturing, polymers, energy, I think, and then life sciences.
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  Speaker 2: And life sciences one was called the Edison Biotech Center,
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  Speaker 2: and it was charged with trying to grow that industry.
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  Speaker 2: That organization became something called Omeris, then BioOhio. And then
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  Speaker 2: under my tenure, we restructured and rebranded to the Ohio
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  Speaker 2: Life Sciences Association. So Ohio has had a long interest
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  Speaker 2: in positioning itself as a biotech hub, as a life
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  Speaker 2: science hub, due to the amazing life-changing work going on
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  Speaker 2: at our institutions. Cleveland Clinic, Ohio State University, Cincinnati Children's,
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  Speaker 2: Nationwide Children's. You know, we've got really interesting work going
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  Speaker 2: on at Air Force Research Lab and Date Battelle has
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  Speaker 2: been involved in groundbreaking life science work for decades. So
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  Speaker 2: we had the right mix of that research and development,
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  Speaker 2: but really we're missing the, call it the translation of
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  Speaker 2: that into companies that we're gonna grow in Ohio. A
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  Speaker 2: lot of that IP, uh, developed it really in, in
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  Speaker 2: a lot of ways that is still being developed at
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  Speaker 2: these institutions had a habit of, uh, of leaving. So
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  Speaker 2: the challenge became, how do you really, how do you
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  Speaker 2: really create a stickier environment in Ohio to ensure that
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  Speaker 2: this groundbreaking work that these institutions are generating, uh, turns
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  Speaker 2: into companies that, uh, that are going to grow in Ohio. Um,
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  Speaker 2: and you know, that, that, that has changed over the
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  Speaker 2: last five years. We've, uh, We've had a much stickier environment. Um,
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  Speaker 2: some of the great work, um, happening at places like
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  Speaker 2: nationwide children's hospital, which has now gotten its fourth, uh,
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  Speaker 2: gene therapy approved by the FDA. Uh, uh, you know,
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  Speaker 2: proud to say that, uh, out of the, I think
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  Speaker 2: it's 46, uh, FDA approved gene therapies that exist now, um,
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  Speaker 2: nationwide children's has about 10% of those. Uh, so that's
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  Speaker 2: a big deal and that has gotten the attention of
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  Speaker 2: a lot of, uh, gene therapy-oriented biotechs. It's attracted a
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  Speaker 2: lot of CDMOs here. Some of the institutions have spun
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  Speaker 2: out their own CDMO, such as Andolin Biosciences, Forge Grew.
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  Speaker 2: We've got Abiona up in Cleveland as one of our
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  Speaker 2: key gene therapy biotechs. Sarepta Therapeutics is here now. And
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  Speaker 2: that industry has grown tremendously over the last couple of years.
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  Speaker 2: While that was all going on, our Governor Kasich created
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  Speaker 2: something called Jobs Ohio. And Jobs Ohio monetized our, they
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: privatized our state liquor sales. And from the proceeds, we
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: invest that money into economic development instead of packages. So
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  Speaker 2: Jobs Ohio over the last, 15, 20 years has put
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  Speaker 2: about a nine-figure investment into growing, recruiting life science-related companies
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  Speaker 2: to the state of Ohio. It also seeded $ 300 million
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  Speaker 2: in funding for the Cleveland, Columbus, and Cincinnati Innovation Districts.
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  Speaker 2: All of those have a health and life science theme
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  Speaker 2: to them. So the amount of state resources and intentionality
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  Speaker 2: to building out Ohio as a life science hub has
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  Speaker 2: been pretty active for the last several decades.
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  Speaker 1: Well, you do have those world-class institutions, and I like
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  Speaker 1: how you said that it was about building that stickiness.
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  Speaker 1: It's not so much that Ohio had to figure out
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: the science. Strong science was there between the institutions and academia.
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  Speaker 1: It's how you get them to stay. And it seems like,
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: I want to come back to that, because it seems
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  Speaker 1: like you have started to piece that puzzle together very nicely.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: particularly in specific therapeutic areas. But one of the things
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  Speaker 1: that's a big conversation right now is concerns about NIH
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  Speaker 1: direction and the OMB guidance and broader NIH funding. A
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: lot of those concerns, again, get raised in Washington by
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  Speaker 1: the associations from states on the coasts. But, you know,
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  Speaker 1: do you feel that as well from your members, from
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  Speaker 1: these institutions, concerns about NIH's funding and future?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we've had a, admittedly, I think we've
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  Speaker 2: had a gap there, both at the state and federal
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  Speaker 2: level in terms of advocacy. I think that The challenge
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  Speaker 2: in Ohio has been that our local and state leaders
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  Speaker 2: have not been as educated about what's been going on
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  Speaker 2: in the life science industry when compared to the advocacy
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  Speaker 2: efforts that surround retail, traditional manufacturing, ag. You know, those
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  Speaker 2: are prominent, well-known industries here that have been doing work
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  Speaker 2: really sophisticated advocacy work for a hundred years. Our efforts
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  Speaker 2: have been, in a lot of ways, they're just starting.
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  Speaker 2: We launched our political action committee just three years ago.
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  Speaker 2: We now have a federal PAC. So the education of
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  Speaker 2: our public policy makers about key issues that this industry
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  Speaker 2: faces whether it's funding from the NIH, the state itself,
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  Speaker 2: policies that the administration is talking about related to everything
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  Speaker 2: from 340B to most favored nation status are newer topics
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: for our elected leaders that we have not spent enough
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: time advocating for. made tremendous progress in the last couple
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  Speaker 2: of years, but more work to do to make sure
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  Speaker 2: our 15 members of Congress and two senators are well-educated
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  Speaker 2: on what those impacts are. And of course, our 33
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  Speaker 2: state senators and 99 house reps.
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  Speaker 1: It's like you have those numbers committed to memory or something,
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  Speaker 1: like it's your job. Well, you've become this incredible spokesperson
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  Speaker 1: for the industry. And I think it's been important in
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  Speaker 1: this moment to see someone like you in the region
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  Speaker 1: building bridges to people who may not have known that
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  Speaker 1: their state is a life science hub and you've built
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: such a complete ecosystem. You know, you wrote earlier this
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: year and, you know, we'll pick at some of the
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: threads you laid out. State matching on SBIR and STTR
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: grants is something I know you've talked about before. do you,
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: are you having success beginning to corral state leaders to say,
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: we should be contributing to the pie as well? Does
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: that help with that stickiness?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that, you know, when you look back
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: at different efforts that the state has led to grow
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: in innovation here, whether it was something like the Thomas
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  Speaker 2: Edison program or, you know, Decades ago, we also launched
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: something called the Ohio Third Frontier. That was a billion-dollar
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: bond initiative that seeded different innovation investments across the state.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: Ohio was a leader in those types of investments. The
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: challenge we ran into was that Ohio Third Frontier, although
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: critical dollars to support the innovation ecosystem, It wasn't necessarily
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: themed around a specific sector or area. And when I
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: look across the country, it's states that are really leading
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: in this space. It seems like at some point in
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: their history, they had a transformational state investment directly invested
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: in a very specific sector. or even in some cases,
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: a specific city. Whether it's North Carolina with its tobacco
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: settlement money going all in on biomanufacturing, Massachusetts in Kendall Square,
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: Texas with CPERT and now DPERT, California, CIRM. we have
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: not had a targeted sort of billion dollar investment in
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: the life sciences specifically. And, you know, that's really an opportunity,
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: I think, for Ohio. Given the fact that we know
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: what this looks like and feels like, you know, could
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: we do even better if we themed the investment and
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: made it a little bit more more specific. We think
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: you have a really interesting opportunity there.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: And so it's not just get more economic development dollars in,
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  Speaker 1: it is also begin to play to your strengths, begin
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: to pick a lane. You feel like that's, you can't
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: just say, hey, we want to be home to more business,
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: more growth, more innovation. Is the secret sauce really saying, hey,
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: not only do we want those things, but we're going
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: to try to go deep in this area.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's right. I think if you look at, again,
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: successful efforts around the country, they've been focused. They've had
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  Speaker 2: the buy-in from their elected leaders. They've had the buy-in
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: from academia. They've had the buy-in from industry. Those three
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  Speaker 2: critical parties have agreed on some of those right-to-win areas.
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  Speaker 2: In Ohio, you look at gene therapy. You look at uh,
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  Speaker 2: cardiovascular innovation, neuro tech up in Cleveland, uh, med tech
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  Speaker 2: down in Southwest Ohio with some of the great work
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: going down there. So there, there are some, some eye
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: care is, you know, Ohio is a hub for eye care. Um,
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: so there, there's some specific, uh, opportunities within the life
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  Speaker 2: sciences that if we, we, um, invested appropriately, we, we
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: think we can really unlock, um, Again, we're paying a
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  Speaker 2: huge opportunity for us this election in our two gubernatorial candidates.
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  Speaker 2: We've got Amy Acton, a physician. We've got Vivek Ramaswamy,
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  Speaker 2: a biotech entrepreneur. So for the first time ever, we're
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  Speaker 2: going to have a person at the top that really
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: appreciates the the role of health care and life sciences.
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  Speaker 2: And we think that's an opportunity to continue this momentum
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  Speaker 2: that we've built.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: That's a really good point that sort of regardless of
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: the outcome, there'll be some depth and expertise in this space.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: You know, we're only hours removed, so I'm not going
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: to put you too much on the spot. But, you know,
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: we got CMS. They did issue these globe rules. I
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: don't know that you've poured through all 100 and 50
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: pages of it. But, you know, what do you make of,
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: of this concept of setting pricing abroad, this MFN concept,
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: when you sit with leaders from Ohio and you sit
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: with your federal delegation and you're saying, look, this is
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: concerning and it's going to, it's going to hold back
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: some of these investments we'd like to see in the state. How,
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: how does that resonate with them? How do you talk
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: to them about the challenges of something like Globe?
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the complexity of the system does not do us
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: any favors with trying to make a strong case for this.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: And I think the proponents of this have taken full
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: advantage of that. All politics is local. We know that
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: more than most in Ohio, especially with our 88-county kind
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: of home rule infrastructure situation. our elected officials want to
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: know the direct impact to their districts. And, you know,
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: often their constituents might be complaining about high drug prices,
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: and they're not going to take the time to get
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: into the weeds of why those things are what they are.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: We do our best to go and try to educate
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: them around the different parties involved in the process of
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: drug uh, you know, uh, informing how these, how these
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: things are priced. Uh, but it's a, it's a pretty
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: heady topic and, um, uh, we're, we're at a disadvantage
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: when we're trying to educate your average politician on, on,
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: on why these things are. Uh, I think that, you know, we've,
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: we've really leaned on the fact that, uh, you know, traditionally, uh,
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: Ohio is a pretty Republican state, conservative state. Um, that
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: the heavy hand of government is usually not a positive thing.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: And there's not a ton of examples of when you
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: start fixing prices, setting prices, when the government steps in
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: in these ways, it usually negatively impacts the way business
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: is supposed to operate. I think that type of messaging
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: has been somewhat helpful. And I think people do appreciate
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: the fact that if If industry is going to have
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: to come up with dollars to close this pricing gap,
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: they're going to take it from some other pocket. And
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: given the research and development progress that we've made in Ohio,
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: helping them understand that industry may pull back from investing
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: in innovation is also something that I think resonates with people. Um, it's, uh, admittedly,
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: it's been a, it's been a tough campaign and, you know,
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: was pleased to see that the, uh, the overall, um,
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: scope of globe was, was somewhat reduced. Um, and, and
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: I think, uh, some certain sectors within the life sciences,
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: gene therapies and such have been somewhat excluded. Um, so,
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: you know, there's, there's, uh, some, some things to be
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: optimistic about, but, still more education to do.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: Well, I think that's right. And I think the work
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: you're doing is a bit of a silver bullet because
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: when you can sit down and talk about these issues,
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: we can find common ground, but it is so hard
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: in the mere minutes you get in the midst of
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: campaigns to try to talk to a voter about these things.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: You did in that line of education, you recently met
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: with the National Security Commission on Emerging Biotech. And that's
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: the other hot topic is How do we advance? I mean,
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: Ohio couldn't be a better candidate, frankly, for this administration
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: of saying we want this biotech engine at home. And
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: yet some of the proposed policies actually undo that, you know,
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: trying to build a wall around China. What was the
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: conversation with the National Security Commission like and what did
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: you want them to take away from what's happening in Ohio?
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a, that was a great visit. We
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: really appreciate it being included in their sort of, uh,
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: national tour. Um, the, uh, uh, the commission spent, uh, uh,
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: two days here. So they spent some time up in
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: Cleveland and then they came down to Columbus to, uh,
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: get sort of an overview of our, our capabilities. Um,
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: I think the fact that, uh, you know, first and foremost,
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: we wanted that, we wanted to be sure that the
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: commission appreciated the, uh, the groundbreaking work that our institutions
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: were thinking about. Work happening at the Cleveland Clinic, making
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: sure they understood the proximity between AFRL, Battelle, NASA, Glenn,
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: up in Cleveland, tremendous defense-related assets that are also highly
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: interested in the life science world. So, The opportunity we
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: believe exists with the commission is to get some support
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: and advice on how we activate that. If institutions like AFRL, Battelle,
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: and NASA were working more collaboratively with places like Ohio State,
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: Case Western, you see these research engines here. What sort
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: of innovation could emerge from that? What sort of insights
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: on biotech defense, could we realize? I think for the
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: elected officials that were involved in that visit and some
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: of the messaging that came out with it, reminding them
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: that the investment in eagerness of China to lead in
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: this space is in fact real. And citing some examples
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: of some of the clinical trial work going on there,
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: whether it's early or up to phase three, people are
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: paying attention. And the investment that that country's making is
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: going to continue to increase and we're behind. So I
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: think that type of messaging resonates. And I think the
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: commission was impressed with the network that could potentially be
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: activated right here in the heartland to address some of
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: these things.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: You know, you've been incredibly generous. You've got a whole
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: state to run over there. So I'll just close out with,
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: what do you want to make sure all of our
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: listeners know about where Ohio is now from a life
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: sciences standpoint, and also where you're going to be in
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: five or 10 years? What's important for everyone to know?
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: Sure. I think what's most exciting about what's happening here
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: right now is the fact that big life science brands
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: are coming here. They're growing here. We're attracting tremendous talent.
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: If you look at the biomanufacturing wins that we've had
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: in the last couple of years, Amgen, National Resilience just
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: moved its headquarters from San Diego to Blue Ash, Ohio. Um,
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: Thermo Fisher continues to grow here. We've got, again, this,
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: this network of startup, uh, gene therapy, rare disease, CDMOs, um,
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: 70% of the innovation pipeline places like Ohio state nationwide
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: children's hospital is, is life science related. Um, I think
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: you're going to see, uh, uh, tremendous continued growth, um, in,
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: in our capabilities for, uh, for the next several years,
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: we have a huge announcement coming out, uh, uh, tomorrow,
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: Friday about another big pharma brand, uh, making a transformational
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: investment here in Ohio. Um, uh, just, just steps away
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: from the Amgen facility. Um, so we're creating some real
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: density in, in life science, uh, related capabilities here. Um,
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: I think again, with our editorial transition, you're going to
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: see some, uh, some state investment, um, being talked about and, and,
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: You know, this is already what they call a super
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: sector for our state. There's five of them. So life
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: science being one of those, combined with the fact that
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: we've got state leadership that understands the industry, we believe
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: is the right recipe for continued growth. Ohio remains proactive
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: and wanting to be a leader in this space. We
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: just built, we just committed funding for what will end
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: up being a $ 40 million project Life Science Training Center.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: This will be right here in central Ohio and eventually
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: become a hub and spoke model. But it's a 34,000
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: square foot facility, CGMP training, lab tech skills, and a
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: lot of other capability, a lot of other space to
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: grow into other more sophisticated pieces of that life science
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: value chain training. it's already been attracting and just having
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: that asset here, even though it's not going to be
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: done until Q2 of 27, has reassured industry that Ohio
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: is a place that's going to commit to building a
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: strong talent pipeline for this industry. So a lot of
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: things to like in terms of kind of how we're
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: talking about the industry, the organic growth that we've had.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: and how the life sciences are integrated into our state
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: strategy moving forward. So good time to be leading our
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: state bio association.
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: Well, you're doing an incredible job, not just speaking out
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: on the policy issues of the day, but advocating for Ohio.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's as good of a sales pitch as
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: anyone is going to hear about where to be locating
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: the next generation of innovation. And clearly, we'll have to
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: have you back on to hear how it's going next year.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: So Eddie, thanks for taking the time.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: Appreciate the opportunity. Thanks again, John, for all the great
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: work you and your team do.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: That wraps up this episode of the Making Medicine Podcast.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: A huge thank you to Eddie for joining us on
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: today's episode. Be sure to subscribe on YouTube and follow
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: us on other channels. Thanks for listening. And as always,
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: keep innovating.