Latest / A Level Playing Field / Sarah Rhind: Addiction, loss & the game I love I A Level Playing Field I Episode 15

Transcript

Sarah Rhind: Addiction, loss & the game I love I A Level Playing Field I Episode 15 · A Level Playing Field

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: And Cheryl Smith joined here by Alison McConnell.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: We've moved away from Hamden, which has uh become our unusual for these last few weeks, which has been quite nice, but moved away this week.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: We are joined this week by a very special guest on this 15th episode of the podcast, Sarah Rind, author, former Scotland player at the Homeless World Cup, former SWPL player.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: She's here with us.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: She has a great new book out, Scars Under the Jersey, Addiction Loss in the Game I Love Sarah.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the podcast.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me on.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's um really amazing to be here.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thanks for taking the time out because we know you've come from across the the city in Glasgow traffic.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: So we really do appreciate it.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: Did you let me just ask you first, did you ever think on this journey that you've been on in your life that you would ever be introduced as an author?
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually insane.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm actually sitting here like she's I'm just like it's still not I don't think it's still really landed on me yet.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um the irony of it, didn't finish school, but an author now.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's great.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: Then say that everyone's got a got a book in them.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: So what what was your moment where you thought, I think I'm gonna get this down, or I think I'm body I think there might be something to share with it, with my story with everyone else, and I I actually want to commit because I think probably lots of people might think, Oh, I've got a book in me or I'd like to sit and write a book, but to actually commit to it to see it through to fruition and and publication.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: It came out a really difficult, difficult period in my life.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'd really struggled a lot with my mental health after losing my sister and stuff, and I just I couldn't find a way forward and I felt like I'd gone from complete breakdown to throwing my cell on life like a hundred miles an hour straight back in and then it was like a couple of years later just burnt out again and and it was like I kinda knew that I wasn't dealing with stuff, but I also felt really triggered and really reactive to when I did try and speak to people because I was like there's just no getting it.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like I just felt really sensitive about it, like that people weren't understanding my grief and people weren't understanding what I was dealing with and it felt like the only safe place that I had was in writing and you know my auntie had said to me like years ago and early on in my recovery journey, she's like, go write a book one day and that and just always kinda stuck with me and and I would like I'd done a bit of journaling and stuff but nothing that I really stuck with just as an outlet to get my thoughts out because I was like not really not really okay.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: What was uh primary school say that I've made a the fact to kind of write a book Honestly I I ran to give a coffee and that book signed to that teacher that said to me the I was uh bone idol.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: There's always one teacher.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: There's always one that you can look back on and go actually.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: I know it's um I still can't really believe it, but you know what?
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's probably the first time in my life I've felt like fully proud of an achievement that I've that I've made, like that of something that I've done, like I've I've done this completely like for me.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, it's the biggest project of apart from recovery probably that I've ever seen through.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: Academically, it's the biggest project that I've ever done.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: Did it feel quite cathartic?
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it was incredible, yeah.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was so cathartic, it was um I just went on a complete journey.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like I wrote it in nine months.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I wrote it in nine months.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: That that'll tell you, like, it was just I was hyper focused.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: I was just like I just had to write.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: It was like a total need.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: Needed to write, needed to get the words out, like couldn't type fast enough, do you know?
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was incredible.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: How do you feel about the fact though that your story's gonna be out there and you've you've laid it all bare for everyone to read?
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm confident in it and the feedback that I've the early feedback that I've had already is incredible.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: And do you know what?
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: See for me, um my mum read it and loved it.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was obviously hard to read as well, but see when I bought like sign off my I was like, cool, that's all I need.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know?
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: And also, you know, not that you need validation from anyone, but also just the fact that it's your story and your perception of events and everything that's seen through the prism of of your experience in a way, you don't really need validation, but I can imagine just how raw it is in part is that it it it feels like leaving yourself really vulnerable when when opening yourself up the way that you have.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've um I haven't held anything back in this book.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: I've completely like put my heart and soul on this and and there is a real vulnerability with it, but also like if I didn't be open and honest completely, there was no point in me doing this.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's my hope with this book is that I reach one person.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know?
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I often think back to like my 14-year-old self, like what did I need to hear?
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like what what connection did I need that I didn't get and in life might have looked differently for me.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I just hope that and I don't even think it's just you know I think that what's in the book is relatable to absolutely everybody because life doesn't miss I mean doesn't miss anyone and I don't think that there's enough support out there and I don't think that we'll learn about or we learn the important life lessons, like we learned stuff at school but nobody talks to you about grief and that's been a an absolutely massive impact in my life and it's been something that I've had to deal with on levels I never thought I would have to deal with at the ages I did and and in that timeline because you know you just think like oh yeah, like your own dad will be like the first and they'll be in their eighties and you know just that like misconception, but actually like that's not life, like life shows up in in horrendous ways sometimes and it can be amazing but it can also be really, really challenging, and I just don't think that we get those lessons early enough.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: What would your dad and Joe have made of this book, do you think?
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: I um incredibly proud.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: Incredibly proud.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like I think they would also have a wee chuckle of themselves about it as well.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: The fact that I have written a book and and got it published, because do you know like all through life I struggled, struggled academically, struggled with dyslexia, struggle with all that stuff and but yeah, at at the bottom of it, like I know they're proud, like I know they're looking down on me and there's things in this book that there's like even the date that it's coming out, that's um that's Joe's birthday.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: And that didn't I didn't choose this date, didn't choose it.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: So my publisher's like I wasn't really set on a date for a release, and they're like, Is there any important dates to you?
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: or and I hadn't paid bought back to them and it was like when they put it on Amazon, they were like, um we just picked a date because um we had to get something for the website, so but it could be changed.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I went and looked and I was like, Oh, I just start crying.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, that's a message from my sister, like they could have picked any date, they could have picked it any date, and I'm like, that is 100% a message from Gilbert being like so proud of you, like go smash it, true, just just incredible.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and I really believe in stuff like that.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: We've obviously read the book and when you read it, there's actually there's humour in the book as well.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: I was laughing at the the part where you said you were you were describing having a panic attack, and you said no one has ever calmed down when someone says it calm down.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's and that happens a lot.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: People say things like calm down, don't worry, don't stress.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: Usually after you've worried stressed and you're not calm.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: So but it's like it gives an understanding to about other people that the the you know, people who who know you they want to be there for you, but they don't know how sometimes because they don't have a like maybe like a lived experience of the thing, but there is definitely humour in it.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: Can you take us back to your your relationship with football in the beginning?
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: What did you love about it?
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think like I've reflected on this a lot lately actually, and I think I think I I think probably one of the biggest things which I just actually didn't realise at the time was primarily for me at that time was that I was good at it.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: I was good at it and that I was naturally talented.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: But you always a goalkeeper.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, pretty much.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: Most of my life I've played a few different positions where I was like, Oh feel that's too much running.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I think primarily from that was probably one of the first things, but because I didn't I didn't I didn't I hated being mean like and I was like you're not good at anything, I was just talking about myself like um in the internal dialogue that went on in my head.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: So when I discovered football, it was like oh hey, something I'm good at.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: Sensible only and then and just being being part of something and being able to like be part of a team and and play an important role and um and just I don't know, just I was always like active as a kid, I was always at my happiest when I was out exercising and with a ball on my feet was just mm became my happy place really, really early on.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: Why a goalkeeper?
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: I always wonder why people did not question this as well, yeah.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like when but I I don't know, I just think um probably just naturally like came relatively easy to me.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um How how how far down the line of when you started to suffer with addiction and things?
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: Did you how were you able to keep the football in your life and when did that kind of fall by the wayside?
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: So the last it became it started to become a struggle over the years.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: The further I also got into addiction it became more of a struggle and then I was always kind of able to do both for for a long time and it was probably the last four years before I went to rehab that it just actually like completely there was one very specific day that it just I was I was in a football team and um I was still like deluded that I was actually I wasn't that bad and didn't know that I was an addict to that point and um because I was like still had a job and was still a little bit of low-down commitments and stuff like Yeah in your streetology not addiction is percentage of addiction is not what it is now, do you know, and it's the whole probably like that closed-minded like oh you have to be homeless and you have to be this and you have to be that, do you know, like and I wasn't though and it's like because addiction gets gets anybody um what did you ask?
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: W when could when the when did the stonies I'd um my addiction was just at that point and and you know all through the years it was like oh I'll never do this, I'll never do that.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that ship had sailed, do you know, and I was like full-blown heroin addict, um I B drug user.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd come home from in fact that was before I was like I was that was before I was an I B drug user and came home from a wake and night shift and had this, you know, moral, moral hybrid and this stance that I don't use drugs at work, I was still at that point, you know.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I've come home and it was like I had like five minutes to get myself sorted out and and the bus was coming to pick me up, we had an away game and I was just like so I was trying to get myself sorted, was ill, I was rattling, I was really, really unwell and it was quite impossible.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then the messages started coming in and like we're outside, like where are you?
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, oh yeah, I'm just and all that, like total lies, do you know?
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: Just total lies came so naturally to me at that point to just tell lies and then another five minutes came and went and then it's like phone calls and all that, and then I I remember like I remember it and remember what always I remember just being like, Yeah, yeah, I'm just walking out the door and and then I put the phone down and just like launched it off the wall.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: I just I knew.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: I knew that was it.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: I knew that I had I knew that I couldn't go back.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: I knew that I'd just thrown away football, which was the one thing that you know, apart from family that I was still kinda holding on to, it was like the one thing in my life that had always been there and the one thing that had always helped me, like, and now couldn't do because I was in no state and there was no way that I could go back because I could explain that either.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know that I've just let down every one of my teammates, my manager, like left them without a lolie, who can go back after that?
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: You probably could have, but I I know what I mean, it's really difficult to then be honest because you'd have to be honest with yourself and say, actually, here is what the problem is, and then I would suspect there would be a real fear, a real terror about saying with teammates and people that think they know you really well, actually this is what's going on in in my life in me.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: And that kind of brings me to an interesting point about dealing with this as an outsider and and how you support someone in that role.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: And there are a few moments in your book that really made me catch on a breath at points, and one of them was the hospital admission when the the nurse puts the go goes to obviously uh administer drugs and she doesn't have a vein and puts the puts the the drugs down, you're obviously in agony because it's it's not going into a vein.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: And just how callous the whole episode felt and how dehumanised we are and desensitized to people who are struggling with other things, it's almost like, well, you are the you're on the bottom runk here and you are removing our time you're taking up our time that we could be given to genuinely sick people now you put that in all the same in invertebrate commas, but I think it raises a really interesting question about how how we administer care to people who are among the most vulnerable in society.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I was in two minds about putting that in, you know, like and I did also mention in in my acknowledgments at the end that, you know, like that's I've I've highlighted some really horrific experiences, but like also like I I get it as well that you know, like the NHS is stretched and all the rest, but yeah, that that particular experience and it wasn't it wasn't a one-off, it was just one example of many times that I'd received similar treatment and it was that was horrendous.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um I wasn't treated like a person, I wasn't treated like somebody that deserved care like everybody else.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: I was completely like stigmatised and not treated well because I was an addict and thus it's horrific, and it's like we're humans at the end of the day.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like I didn't choose to be an addict, I didn't want that for my life.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: I really, really didn't, do you know?
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: And and it's this whole societal, like, there's this big gap of understanding and misunderstanding that people are not getting it.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the reason that I wrote this book is because I want to I want to change the narrative, I want people to understand, like, and I want people to understand from a deeper deeper level, do you know?
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I just I'm all about helping people, I'm all about supporting people, and I I find it really hard to understand how somebody can treat somebody like that regardless of like position, job, like whatever.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like I just it kind of baffles my mind.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: Super decency.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think it highlights as well that a lot of the time people just treat the the thing that's actually the issue and not the cause and they don't for whatever reason they don't want to or can't go deeper to get to the root, which is everyone's everyone struggles with different things in their life, and that's that's really what needs to be treated as opposed to whatever's on the surface.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: When you were writing uh the book, did you did your perspective on yourself and your experience and how you feel about yourself, did that change when you were writing it when you look back at various points in your life?
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's um it's changed a lot for me actually.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's changed on different different aspects.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's there's things like the academic stuff where do you know like when it secured like my publishers and stuff and I was like, and then when things started to really get real and things were ramping up and we were doing the edits and stuff when over this last what about 18 months and it was like started to really dawn on me.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, and I had a moment I think when I shared when I was able to share like my cover on Amazon and my Amazon cover that was out on like the full book cover and I shared it on my socials, and I actually was like sitting in my lip room and I was just like this is unreal.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like and I had a total like epiphany moment of for 41 years I've been lying to myself.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: For 41 years I would tell myself I'm stupid and that I'm not I'm not smart and I'm and I'm all these horrible things and I'm like I proved myself wrong.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: I proved myself wrong for the last like 41 years that I'm I'm not those things.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: I just didn't have I just had to get through all of the years of negativity from myself mostly um other people's experiences like what we spoke about, you know, situations like and I think like the further I've come into my recovery journey it's it's gotten easier to talk about this stuff um because there's a little bit you know there's some space there's some space between when I was just first cleaning, it was like it was just all so raw and it was just all like I was still living in that like being an addict and and all the horrific experiences and and you know things that I'm not proud of and things that like my addictions like led me to and and now it's like I'm I'm ten years clean and I'll be 11 this year and it's like that in some ways feels such a distant memory but I'm just like I just feel like I've got a call in to do something positive for that and and try and change the narrative and try and help people.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: But where did that uh that sounds really complex question to ask, but where did that negative voice energy for you to think?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: See that negative sort of sense of self from when you were really young?
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: Is it a bit part of the dyslexia and going into an education system that when you look back to maybe thirty-five years ago we wouldn't have the same knowledge that we do now about dyslexia, it wouldn't have been as as well understood or well researched, and there would have been a tendency just to say, well, you're not keeping up your work and and you're way behind your peers at certain levels, not knowing that you're actually you know, you're comparing oranges and apples.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's um yeah, it's it go it stems way back from as probably my first memories that I can remember.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: I've just always had this mental crazy brain that's just always been a hundred miles an hour, that's always been like not very kind to me, always compared, and then when you tie that in with your environment, don't get wrong, like my upbringing, my family life was I can't fault it.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's been incredible, and I've been I am so lucky and so blessed to have a family that I've got and I've always been loved and supported and encouraged and but it I've come to realise over the years it doesn't matter what you get from other people, the validation, it doesn't it doesn't equate if you don't believe that for yourself um and I think just what you spoke about like all the experiences and sitting in class and and I remember all this stuff, you know, like sitting there being like, oh no, everybody else is like five questions ahead of me, do you know, like because I'm having to read over stuff and to take longer to go over things, but and even in like secondary school, like I got extra they picked up in it then and it was like I got extra time in exams and stuff, but I was like, I don't want to like I just it's see when see when the second last person like when there was just two of us left in that room in that exam home, I just got up and left regardless of where I was at.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: I had extra time but I didn't want it because I again did not want to be the only person.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: Why was it always me?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know if that's what I always felt like?
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: Why is it always me that struggles?
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: Why is it always me that just can't grasp this or can't do the work the same as everybody else?
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like and it's that a lot of that came from me, but a lot of it came from my environment as well, do you know, and um being very attuned to people's I'm very attuned to people and very attuned to facial expressions, tone of voice, all the rest of it.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: So even whether it was meant or not, I'm picking up on all those n that negativity, do you know?
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: And it was just something that just kind of always it just rammed up.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_02: You've said that you you think your perception of yourself has changed and that would be really always one the academic one of here I am.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: I've just published a a book that I've written myself, but do you see yourself as brave?
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: I find that really hard to answer.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um because I don't, because it's just something that I think it's just I don't think of myself as brave and I think it's just like when I got clean and about recovery and I started to like understand that and I started to understand the addiction that I'd come through and I started to understand myself as a person.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like I think a lot of it was you just have to push through.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: You just have to push through to find to get to the other side of stuff, and yeah, I still struggled to be nice to myself actually sometimes.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: So that feels like, oh that's like giving yourself a really big pick me up compliment, you know?
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: And it's and it's probably not and if it was to anybody else, I'd be like, oh my god, that's incredibly brave, like wow, like you've put yourself out there, but I still have a lot of work to to do on the being kind to myself top, but we're working on it.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: I think it takes a lot of courage to be able to tell you yourself so vulnerable by by sharing a story, I think you can't see it as anything other than courageous.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I and I do agree with you, and I think it's probably just become it's probably a part of it's become second nature for me that even like to my experiences of when I first told somebody that I self-armed, like when I first told Mom and Dan that I self-armed, then that had been a secret for like seven years.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I decided early on after that that actually like I just had to own it.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: Had to own it because when I said it in the book, you know, your secrets keep you sick.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I think like the way forward for me with that experience and whispering recovery was just you know what, like own it.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: Be who you are, and actually like people have helped me on my journey with that by being who they are and by owning their stories, and that's always been a really big impact in my life, especially like early, started recovery and stuff.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: I would look to other people and be like, alright, okay.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like so and so's like a few days off their their detox actually look alright today, and then so and so's like you know, halfway through their programme and and so on and so forth, and it's like you need you need to you need to see that inspiration, you need to see that like that it's possible, do you know?
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that probably, yeah, that probably and find relatability in in human beings and people.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: How much would you have liked reading that?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: book like this if you to go back to where you were at 14, 15, 16 that that's one quite even your mid-twenties, yeah.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like at what point might this story have been uh a a real inspiration for yourself and do you hope that it acts as that for someone else?
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah that's my um writing the book and just having it on my computer was was cathartic for me and it was it was healing and in the process of writing it I was like I've brief stuff back and it still makes me laugh because I'm like it was such a weird feeling I was like this is this is really good like this is like these words are really good and it was like it was so strange because I was like well you wrote them and you're shouldn't do it.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: But but I didn't remember that feeling if I would justify this is really good and I wish I remember points when I was like I wish I I wish I had that I wish I had that before now I wish I had that those words that book like I remember reading a book about self-harm when I was like in my twenties and and it was just it was what he gave me.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: I was just like it gave me that connection and it gave me like oh wow I'm not alone okay like somebody gets it somebody gets it and that was something that I'd probably always been looking for just somebody that understood me.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think in that time you're talking about you would have been in a a place mentally to receive that information?
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: What's in this book if you had read it then?
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think in some ways I would have because I think I think it would have created a platform like I think it would have given a start and a jumping off point because I remember in like primary school secondary school primary school sec no secondary I remember in secondary school somebody came in and spoke to us and of the the context I remember of it was that it was somebody coming in and having a chat and talking about his lived experience and do you know about addiction and all the rest of it and like really don't don't do this like do you know and but I remember bits of his story and um and it did it did resonate.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying that do you know like this book's going to stop people going through their journeys but what I hope is that wherever people are in their journey I would the ideal would be that I would love to stop people going down that road living those experiences.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: However well that's probably not reality and it might be for some hopefully or maybe you know one person.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's it honestly one person like if I can help one person.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: But I hope that wherever and that's not just you know young people that's like do you know people that are maybe struggling with mental health or struggling with grief and lost and isolation whatever it is like I I think there's something in that book for everybody.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: You speak a lot in the book about your your family and your your mum and is it she sounds like from how you describe her very supportive the whole way through of everything but it must have been difficult for her to see you that you're lost and for you to know that that's how she felt um we've had a lot of conversations over the years and a lot of healing and a lot of hard things that we've spoken about as well and my mum oh she's just incredible honestly like she is like such an inspiration to me she's just my hero like I actually wouldn't be here I don't know what I would do without her um and she said to me be when the process before I can let it start writing this book and like big wee bits and then I was like oh I'm gonna read that and like what do you think and she was like I don't want to read it she's like I want and she sat and had that conversation with me and she's like I want you to write freely and I want you to write honestly and I want you to completely own your story she says and I and whether that's to and this was her words whether that is to say that you know I was a terrible mother and this is where this is where I failed you like she's like whatever your truth is I want you to write it.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I was just like and she like I was like mum no and she was like no listen to me do you know like and she really meant it like she wanted me so she's not influenced this book in any way shape or form in that she only just read it at Christmas time.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: What was her reaction to in it she read all it probably didn't help that much because I wrapped it all up when you're a Christmas like and then I was like but then I was like we start reading it we start even at it and I probably hadn't appreciated that that was going to be a journey for her as well do you know and she said to me like 'cause I kept asking she said to me like 'cause she was staying down with me actually when I'd given it to her and um and sometimes I would see her like sitting reading it and I was like oh my god like stop and then I learned quite quickly to just to just let it be and let her read it out of her face and she said that there would it it was an incredibly hard read um and that the bit that got me was she said that there was things in there that she didn't know and I was like oh that hurt that was hard.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: Just the truth the truth hurt Jerole I was just like oh because I hadn't anticipated that and I'd like there's there's parts in that book that you know I did discuss with her like before before like you know after I wrote it even but I was just like in particular it was like I had to make sure that that book was my story and it's really really difficult I find that really difficult to get the balance right in that that so many people have been in in my journey through the last through all the years and it's it's a very fine line of what is my story to tell and what isn't so there's bits in that that I you know I've done my absolute everything in my power to make sure that everybody's protected in it um all my family and and people in my life as well do you know like it's obviously I keep using the word draw but it's a it's an it's an incredible honest account of your life and how tough moments I've been in it with addiction and self-harm and was there a point writing it where you thought this is too much I want to stop?
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah there was a couple of times where um I had to there was a couple of times where yeah I had to put it down for a while for like a couple of weeks even because I was like this is this is a lot um and I like I go over a lot of things in my head on a daily basis and I'll think back about my journey and and but there was particular bits writing about it.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: There was particular bits about writing about my breakdown that that was that was that was really hard that was really hard but also like I it had to be done because I don't know how many times I wrote and deleted and rewrote that particular particular sentence before I actually got to a place where I was like right just call it for what it is but that was me admitting to me that that's how bad I was like I was like I was I was suicidal but I didn't realise that I was in the sense of I didn't have a plan but I was looking for a way out without consequence and I feel like now like that lived experience is you know I can understand how people dictate their lives.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because the darkness at that point was just nothing I never experienced and that shocked me to my very core because I hadn't I had been through addiction Scott Mike I've been in some dark places but I was like I couldn't understand how I was here clean and finding myself in that position.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: When you talk about your dad in the book as well and how you lost in such tragic circumstances and just unimaginable grief but it was a turning point of sorts in your journey why was um why was why was that a turning point and what what were you saying through that time?
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: Because when that happened I my first thoughts and that's m that's my truth my first thoughts after I was told that was that I wanted to take myself to Bolivia and I went into Go News because I didn't want it to be dealing with that like that still pains me to say that and to be honest about that but that is also the nature of being an addict like that is you're supposed to and in the time after it and the horrific journey from Edinburgh with my sister up to to moms and Aberdeen like in all those moments in between and it was like there wasn't there wasn't an opportunity for me to go news.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: There wasn't an opportunity for me to go in score basically and I knew that if I did because it it was still a choice so if I chose to to go on news I would be saying goodbye to my family not not from their side from my side because there was absolutely no way that I could do that to them and then never face them again.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like I couldn't and I could not not from their side like I say from my side there was no way so out of that you know absolutely horrific tragedy came a little bit of hope and I was like I was still in a mess grip but I was like seven seven weeks and and four days without using which I mean for me that was absolutely tremendous to you know you couldn't even get a day without using so um that was incredible but nothing had changed.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: So nothing changed long term.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: However that was the start the start of things for me.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: When you went to into rehamp third time what was what was different what was different about you that time that you managed to make it through and come out the other side of that and then obviously your introduction to street soccer as well the part that that's played.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah I um the difference was that time and this is what people find hard to probably grasp and I know it from both sides is that you can't reach somebody until they reach their rock bottom like they have to be completely done.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like it has to be a very specific set of circumstances and the very specific timeline that happens for somebody to get clean and fortunately for me I did have that circumstances that it kind of aligned and um just got to a point where I couldn't do it anymore and I didn't want to do it anymore.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: Didn't even I was you like felt like I was using the guess by will it was just tremendous and then my incredible care manager er she was like she'd never gave up on me and she's probably like one of the she well not probably she is one of those incredible workers that I've worked with over the years that I'm just like she bought me and she saw me.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: She saw me as a person.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: She saw me as Sarah she didn't just I wasn't just an addict it was like I was Sara before I was anything and and that was hugely important and the support that she gave me through that and and I remember her saying to me I was like 'cause you know in the the from the you know deciding that doing the phone assessment and deciding that I was going to rehab it with very quick turnaround it was like a couple of days high and I was like and she was like I wouldn't be putting you I wouldn't be putting you forward for this I wouldn't be doing this if I didn't believe in you and if I didn't think it was your title so I did it I went to went to rehab um and it was the hardest thing ever but again like you know people around you that you're like alright I'll give you a bit of whoop because you're like alright okay like so you start talking to people eventually and start to hear their stories and it's like great okay actually this can be done.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like they can do it I can do it and then I was I you know got through my detox and stuff and was doing well in my programme and I had to start I was sitting in key work and I had to start looking for commitments um and here I was you know what are you good at was a question posed to me and I was like oh man this question in my head I'm like I think I'm not good at anything like and I just sat there in the awkward silence of it like because my keyboard was just like right what are you good at and I was like like and and and honestly like my childlike brain was just like eventually football.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: Well you're good at football.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_02: I used to play football told them that and and then they told me they were like told me about street software they probably did tell me about the organisation and what it's about but all I heard was scroll on get a game of fives I was like sweet football dressing rooms are are funny places that we can be there can be fantastic camera camaraderie there can be great fun in a group there can be fantastic social spaces but can they also be difficult places to have quite authentic conversations?
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah um I think it depends on I've had like very mixed experiences over the teams that I've been at over the years and stuff and um I think there's an element of that happens more off the park that happens more in the conversations like in the friendships that you build and the sport with with teammates that you have but yeah it's probably like it's a limited timeline as well isn't it and you're there to do a job so it's like those conversations probably don't open up at that time but also the sport the sport is there like and um but also it can be you know I've been at teams where it's been super challenging just because I didn't feel like I fit it and I didn't feel like I belonged and there was big characters and and that just made me anxious and it was just actually like sometimes a really horrible place to be in this engine room do you know where you're just like on the ground swollen up because you just don't feel like you belong there and so yeah it's a double edged sword.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_02: I also think too but for for any players just now that might be be struggling that you represent now are a really particular focal point of someone that you know that they could get in touch with and say I'm experiencing similar or I'm I'm struggling with some of the similar problems that you have can I speak to you.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah no definitely and I'm always open to having conversations with people like whoever that is I'm I I I love it.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: I love being what I help people because people have been there for me and people have supported me in my life and it's like I'm now in a position where I can do that for somebody else and and I just think that I can't help but think that I can't be the only one I'm not the only one and I know I'm not but also even like at higher level football as well do you know like Premier League and all the rest of it and it's like I I know the pressures and stuff that came with that for me and I just think to myself like I know people have struggles like because nobody doesn't but I also know that like just you know like there is people that I know and there's people that I don't know and and I just think like but there's so much pressure on that at that level and there's so much pressure up especially like for the teams that are full time and all the rest but anybody all of them but it's like need to perform need to be at their best so at what point is there the opportunity for them to come forward and say do you know what actually I'm not at my best and actually I need a bit of help and actually I'm struggling they won't because that platform's not there because it's got consequences and and you know I'm sure for all the girls playing at that like at whatever level they're playing at it's something that they're so passionate about, it's something that they don't want to lose it's so important in their lives probably for a lot of similar reasons to mine what they get out of it and the threat of being honest, having consequences and taking that away from them is just and I'm like so we need to do something different.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_02: But is there a danger that the perception around that in and maybe admitting to to struggle with your mental mental health is still seen as weakness?
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: Oh totally yeah I don't even know if it's weakness as such but there's just I don't know what's happened in our society that people aren't prepared, people aren't I think it's because of how people feel they're going to be perceived.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think it is because of all this stigma and the judgment and the lack of understanding with things and just it's not an open space.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's not it's not an open platform for people to be like right do you know what I actually like and I'm I'm not alright or I'm I'm struggling with something because there's fear of judgment there's fear of stigma there's fear of repercussions for things there's fear of consequences because there's not enough people out there being honest and owning their story.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody doesn't struggle nobody doesn't have stuff going on.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: Life doesn't miss anyone and I just think like well maybe I can you know start a little ripple effect by doing what I think everybody should be doing is is just being true to themselves and owning it.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: Two things can be true at the same time that if you have struggles and you continue to put one foot in front of the other that's seen as strength that it is but so is actually admitting that you need help or some kind of some kind of support that's also what is important but I think that's your right nuts where people um struggle with that kind of thing.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'd asked you at the beginning if you ever thought you'd be introduced as an offering did you ever think 'cause it on your radar to represent Scotland in football?
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: No, never like and even like football wasn't as prominent as then when I was growing up as it is now um so it wasn't even that direct comparison of like you know like looking and being like oh I want to be like yeah such and such player.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: But you know I watched a lot of men's football and stuff and was like that's so good like they get to do that for a job and all the rest of it and and I just like you know watching the Scotland games and stuff and it was like oh what an what an experience that would be and and and I used to say like in interviews and stuff after I did represent Scotland in the Mongols World Cup that I didn't have the comparison and in that it was the Longest World Cup but you know what it's not to be compared because it's like I was re representing my country and I know what that honour felt like and I know what like I've got beast bumped out you know it's like I know what that moment were to me and and how incredibly important it was and and I'm like there's people that it was that comparison thing again do you know what it was like but it's not the Scotland national team draw like it's but half of them wouldn't be eligible to play in it when I did so I can't imagine there would be a a better feeling than being carried on your teammate's soap or something you're you know you're self-lame forever like it was just unreal unreal like especially for the people that I met there and just just seeing it on such a scale like these people and I used to always wonder about people's journeys and conversations you had it was just so inspiring.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: It was incredible.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: But the book has lots of great pictures and this one is a picture of you at Hamden Park and people see it when they buy the book and read it but can you explain to people that are unlikely to play football Hamden Park and what that moment is like you never spent time.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: The old 50s what was that when you look at that picture what was that moment like for you?
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: Can you explain that to us?
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: It was a moment of freedom it was a moment of freedom it represented freedom for me it represented freedom from the vision in my past that has dragged me down in strength and resilience to to come through to where I was and and here I was you know like saving penalties and stuff that happened in like how many people get to see that?
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: But Alison hates me saying saying this and I tell everyone that we play five asides and uh when we have to swap we have to swap in like to go on a chance and go shades.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: We have to go in goals and I uh you're actually alright but I'm not scared of getting my glasses broke so I'm I wouldn't run actually run away from the ball so I was asking earlier if it be a goalkeeper it's just like it's actually incredible also just so I just picture as well you with your uh with your dog in blaze um and you'd mentioned this in the book about the journey trying to get the trying to get the dog and you were sitting outside and you were really upset there was no breeders available and all that kind of thing but actually how how big a moment was that in your life?
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: Life changing life change and without a shadow of a doubt I was not not alright at that point um in any way shape or form it like my amount of health was in the absolute bucket and and I felt like I felt like I was getting a societal stuff.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: I felt like I was getting forced back into normal living.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: I was like I don't want it like I I didn't want to move any kind of forward.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: Did not want to just wanted to stay exactly where it was didn't want to move forward because that felt like I was taking a step further away from my sister and I couldn't do it.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like and nobody understood this like so it's just the whole like it's been six months now like you need to do and and for me that was like that was a thing as well that really struck me was the incredible wraparound support that is there for you at the start of a really traumatic time in your life.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: But the time that I actually I was numb then I didn't like none it's not that it didn't matter it did matter but to me at that point in time it didn't matter because I wasn't ready for it, I didn't want to do it, I just was completely numb and it's people start to move on and because life doesn't stop and then people started to m you know need to get back to their jobs and need to do this and back to their living and and then it was that time when I felt the most vulnerable and the most scared and most in need of people but also up to the process.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't want people because I wasn't very good around people and I was super reactive and everything annoyed me or like it just made me just silly things.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_00: Someone smiling oh honestly like just set something off in me.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like as much as I knew I needed people I needed connection and something it wasn't people and I was like and it just came to me one day I was like wanna get a dog I want to get a dog because dog won't annoy me dog won't like set me off dog won't do what I mean like ask me stupid questions say stupid things.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's on the meat so yeah I was just like I'd decided that that's that's what I needed and and and I was right that is what I needed in my life at that time and And again, like you know, we spoke about like other stuff like earlier on that nothing happens by chance.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and again, it was like he was hooked directly in my path, like at that moment when I needed him the most.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um and my little labrotoire that he is has just brought so much joy and happiness and incredible memories and moments, and he's just been such a huge part of my journey, like he's helped me get back to where I am.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: I actually felt kind of self stood when I was reading about how long that you walk him for because I've got a dog he's a border terrier, and I will go out of my way to not take him on a walk.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: Diane will walk him, but um, when you were talking about like three or four miles or something, he's like, my god, I don't think I've ever walked three or four miles everywhere to the dog starting to sweat.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's it's a part of life the moment people don't realise like how important it can be, and especially for someone um in your in your situation.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um and also obviously you went on to play in the SWPL, the top flight Hamilton archies, another thing you and I've never achieved.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_01: I know it's just my negative phrase.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: I know, I know.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_01: We could we can do we can be other things.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um but what was that period in your life like for you?
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_01: Because it was I would imagine you know, playing in the top flight and it's your dream and where you've come from to get there, but then there was that really difficult moment where you were talking about when you were training, then you had the there was self-harm, and you know it was it was actually a very it was graphic that we described it but it needed to be.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um all of that together, what was that what was that like for you that whole period?
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: I oh Aki's has always got a special place in my heart.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_00: The people that that have been involved in that and the people throughout my teammates, like staff, everybody like they've all been incredible and and it's brought some of my happiest football ends like to my life and and for me personal achievements, you know, like even being chosen to be in that team, you know, like even playing playing in games that I've played in, but being part of it was was such a huge thing for me and um in being that the age that that I was at when I came to Ackies, I knew that it was going to be short-lived.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: I knew that.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: Were you the oldest player in the league or the team?
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think um I don't know if I was oldest in the league.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: Pretty old.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um definitely the team.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_00: And a few of them were like that.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: They would uh nickname me mum.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's not that worse than 17 questions, Emory's five cents.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_02: Where's my salt for you?
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_02: Where's the one?
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_02: Did you quite like that kind of that movie taking on the thing?
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_02: What it is, and I I feel like I feel like that um has been my role going forward.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because I feel like what I was able to bring there at for periods of time and you know like when I was in a good place and all the rest of it, I was able to support other people and and I do that through my work and I do that in my daily life because that's what I love and that's what I'm passionate about and I just want to help people and and finding that role within football was just like it was incredible and I was like don't need any job role doing this, I just do it because it's who I am.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um and do you know like there's teammates that I've got and um had over the years and stuff that that you know we've had like really special connection and and I've been able to support them through through challenging, through difficult times and and again that's just why I think it's so important like because we're not alone in that and and the kind of hope that do you know like I can still offer something and for me and still playing, you know, I'm uh quite relentless that I'm not giving up and I'm not retiring.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: That will eventually come, but at the minute I'm like right, okay, like let's just manage it because I don't want to give it up because it's not the football is everything in my life, but it I have had experience over the years where it's like you know, been at teams where I'm not really played as much or whatever, and I have that experience at acquis as well, and that's fine because there's always going to be somebody younger, fitter, better than you, and that's okay because that's what drives us on, and that's what that's what kept me going as long as it did to that standard.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because training with 20-year-olds, do you know what I mean?
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, right, yep, you can do it, I won't do it, do you know?
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: But it was great and it and it kept me going, but um I come to realise over the years that you know I've had periods when I've gone out on loan and stuff, and and that was challenging because it's like I felt like it was two different people with two different teams, um and but it also taught me that game time wasn't all of it.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: I used to think it was, but then I also come to realise that game time was a huge part of it, of course, because I loved playing the game, but it wasn't everything because when I was at other teams it was like but I didn't have my teammates, do you know?
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like I wasn't with my team like and I missed that, so it was the familiarity I've come to realise it it's like it's not just game time and it's not just it's not just one aspect, it's all of it, it's all of it and being part of that.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_00: What important has football been for you?
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what I would be doing in my life if I didn't have football, quite honestly it's it's it's played such a huge part in my life, it's given me so much confidence and self-belief in in aspects, and do you know what?
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's giving me self-belief in not just in my football ability, but it's giving me self-belief in other aspects and it's given me a sense of purpose and a sense of belonging and a sense of do you know what like I have something to offer you?
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I just I mean I do it for work and do it in my personal life.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_01: I just I don't know if you're freeing Wednesday nights, but how tremendously the be if we turned up that time early goal keeper anyway.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_01: My glasses would be sick.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_01: Let's do it.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_01: Let's walk up.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um what does um what does life look like now for you and and going forward?
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know something that I realised the other day?
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_00: I did uh a kind of mini book launch, if you wanted to call it that, um with uh at Burnest Ball, which they've been incredible sponsors and support to us, it's just all great and me personally, um, on Tuesday there.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I was just like after that, I was like, I was just on such a high, I was like, this is incredible.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_00: I love I was like, sure, I'm actually quite this public speaking for you what to say.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I've just come to like realise that actually maybe that's my I I enjoy I enjoy it.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_00: I enjoy doing it, and I would like I'm not I want to be a keynote speaker, that's my that's found something else, yeah.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_02: Found something else and you're good at the like.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well that's it, and I had that realisation on Tuesday, I was like, oh, it's not just football, that's okay then, because once I retire I can actually do this and I'm good at it.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_02: And that was that was actually a huge moment for me to to realise that.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_02: I was just about to ask you though, actually, like obviously sitting down a little bit just in front of your laptop or your computer and write your stories worth thing.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_02: That this would have been something different the last couple of weeks of meeting people that you don't know, like and meeting strangers that you have no relationship with and coming in and speaking about deeply, deeply personal things and really difficult things.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_02: How how did have you found that over the last couple of weeks to the all the media rounds of interim use and everything?
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think um I've done stuff like this before, but on a level but never on this level, do you know, and this is like very much this like absolute core of my being in that book, do you know?
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_00: So but it's also given me a competent like I wasn't even nervous coming and meeting you guys today, which was really nice actually, because normally I'm a bit like get all fuster about it.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_00: It was like nah, like just story, just story, you know what better to tell you.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know what, do you know what I mean?
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_00: And and from like even just this week and stuff, it's like oh I I come alive with this, I really enjoy it, I love it, and um I I just think it's it's great, I love doing it.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um can't remember what else she asked me then, I'm terrible.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's just basically like how the challenges of coming and speaking about deeply pursed things with people, it's just one thing having having that experience alone when you can formulate your styles and put the you have the control over saying, I'm gonna delete that, yeah.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas once it's out and yeah and people might come and say, Can we talk about this?
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_02: For example, what that Cheryl was talking about, the the instant at Hampton Akies when you're between you're having a panic attack and heart park and and and all the stuff, but these are like you've stripped every layer away, you've you've you've laid the story there, so when it comes to maybe speaking about it and people want to probe and ask questions about it, that it it that it's a different experience than when you're just writing about it yourself.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think um I think I'll go on a journey with this with this in itself, and that you know, like it's it's now about me.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_00: I've learned a lot over the last few years about my mental well being, about my mental health and and what that looks like and how I need to manage that from experiences where I haven't managed it, and experiences where I've just like completely burnt myself out.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I've another thing that I have in the tool bag is I've got a very high emotional intelligence of other people of myself and I'm like and I know I feel like I know and know how to manage much better now um what I need.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know even like even things like last night, like so I'd done the book the mini book book watch on Tuesday and I was just like that was like so much.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then we had like a big football tournament or birthday cuff at Street Soccer yesterday, so like today I'm just like I'm absolutely wrecked.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm absolutely wrecked, but like I've put things in place for myself, and you know I made that active decision as well.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like I messaged my manager last night and I was like I'm not actually gonna come to training because I could, but I'm not going to because I'm completely like wrecked, and if I just keep pushing and pushing and pushing, that'll have a negative impact eventually.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just for me being aware of what my limitations are.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_00: I feel quite comfortable speaking about stuff, and I've been speaking about this quite openly, and yeah, that this is a new level.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_00: It is like definitely levelled up because there's not really anything that I haven't spoken about in there.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it's just I guess for me continuing to use the support that I've got around me and continuing to be self-aware and and um being kind to myself, which is something that I'm trying to learn to do now.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_02: What what do you think being an inspiration?
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_00: Eh I think that people need that in in life.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like people need it in and I think that if I can be an inspiration to someone to make changes in their life then then that's the whole point of this.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_00: Before I finish up, just for people who haven't read the book yet, how would you sum it up in your own words?
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um you're gonna go on a roller coaster, basically.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_00: I would say emotionally, mentally, I think you're gonna you'll go on a roller coaster, but there's there's human and stuff in it too, so it's not all but yeah, it's um I think that regardless of who you are and and if you read that, that there will be some part of that somewhere in that book that will resonate with you and get you thinking about stuff.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think you're I think you're absolutely right there.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_01: Listen, it's been great to speak to you.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's an incredible story.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_01: People will be able to buy the books Scars Under the Jersey Addiction Laws and the Game I Love on Amazon and all the good bookstores.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_01: We'll put the link in the description below this.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_01: But thank you so much for for your time and your honesty for being so open um about everything and really best best of luck with this.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's gonna fly.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_01: And also thank you to Alison and thank you to everyone for listening.