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381. Why Your Love Language Could Never Make You Feel Loved in Your Marriage - Divorce & Attachment · Dear Divorce Diary: A Fresh Approach To Healing Grief & Building A Life Of Confidence After Divorce

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Darlings, darlings, darlings.
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_02: I think I start every episode with that.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_02: Darlings.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_03: I think you do.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_03: Are we okay with it?
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_03: I don't give a shit.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_03: It's cute.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_03: Go for it.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_03: Darlings.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_02: But also I need to market that.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: Market it, darlings.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think we would call me predictable by any stretch, but I guess in a certain way I am.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_03: But you do keep us on our toes, which we appreciate and love.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: There we go.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: Balance.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so wow.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: We are getting ready to start our new cohort.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_02: We are going to have a work day together next Monday.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: I I get to see you all.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_03: I get to hug Tiffany.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_03: This is so exciting.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's such an exciting time.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_03: I'm very excited.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_03: Case in point, I didn't even know before we started recording today that I was going to see your face in a week.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_03: And now I'm very excited.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_03: Keeping you on your toes.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_03: That's what I mean.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like the vibes are high this morning.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_03: Like we're we're jamming.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: And a good morning.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_03: I just got back from a lovely trip.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_03: I was at my mom's in Pennsylvania.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_03: I was on 10 acres on the side of a mountain.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_03: I was playing chickens.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_03: With bears.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_03: I yeah.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_03: I hiked every morning.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_03: It was a very different experience from hiking in South Carolina.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_03: There are things out there that would kill you.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_03: And so yeah, like, and then I have people just like driving up to me on the side of the road, ma'am, are you okay?
• 1:22
  unknown: Fine.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: Everything's fine.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_03: Because I'm out in the middle of fucking nowhere.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'm good.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_03: I'm good.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_03: Everything's good.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: My mom used to say that when she would when she would go walking in blue jeans in the Appalachias.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: Appalachi, how do you say that?
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: In Appalachia, whatever.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: People would assume she was a prostitute.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: I guess that doesn't happen in Pennsylvania.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_03: What?
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: No one thought I was a prostitute out there.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_03: They thought I was literally broken down on the side of the road and I needed help based on the location in which I was walking.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_03: I love that they stopped.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_03: The locals don't stop.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_03: The locals see that I'm strapped up and like they get what's happening, that I'm literally out for a leisurely walk.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_03: But people that are visiting up there, and because it was Labor Day weekend, people were at their cabins and they weren't from there, those were the people that would stop and be like, Do you need help?
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_03: But the locals would just give me a friendly wave and keep on flying by.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_03: They're just like, ah, the bitch is fine.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_03: She's good.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_02: Joy, you were instrumental in the planning of today's episode.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yes.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: This is a hot topic for me.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of a soapbox.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's interesting, right?
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: So we got really excited about this last week.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: We were having dinner with somebody we know, like, and trust.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_02: And this thing came up about love languages, and it blew her mind.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: And you got on the soapbox.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: It was so good.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: What are you feeling about recording this topic today?
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: Without, without blowing the load.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: Right, without blowing the load.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I am really excited because I do feel like this is it's such a it's such a pigeonhole that people get in, and I am not here for it.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: So let's do it.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, love.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to Dear Divorce Diary, the podcast helping divorcees go beyond talk therapy to process your grief, find the healing you crave, and build back your confidence.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_02: I'm your host, Don Wiggins, a therapist, coach, integrative healer, and divorcee.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: Join me for a fresh approach to healing grief and building your confidence after divorce.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: Today we are going to unpack love languages, what we like about it, what we loathe about it, and why, definitely why it didn't like your marriage didn't stand a chance if this was the framework you were using.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: What what to maybe keep or appreciate about it and what to completely let go and let yourself off the hook for, right?
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: Because if this was a framework you were using, it was never gonna do the trick, right?
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I was.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: This is what one of the things you were using?
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_03: It was.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was definitely the framework that uh the the pastor that married me and my first husband, it's definitely the framework he used in our premarital counseling.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: So prevalent in Christian culture.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like it is the standard for Christian culture.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I just it misses the mark.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just not profoundly, profoundly misses the mark.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not yeah, yeah.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: All right, here we go.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, some backstory to Gary Chapman and this particular book.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: It is one of the most influential relationship books over the several the last several decades.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: It was first published in 1992.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_02: It has sold more than 20 million copies.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: It has been published in 50 languages.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: But popularity is not the same thing as validation.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: And so for us, there's a limitation that is so important for us to unpack here, which is the framework can help you name what helps you to feel loved, but that doesn't mean or that it tells you why you need that particular behavior so desperately, what happens inside of you when you don't get it, and how to resolve that, right?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: So words of affirmation may describe the behavior that soothes you, soothes a part of you in IFS, but it doesn't explain why silence makes that part of you feel unworthy.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: Quality time may describe what feels good, but it doesn't tell you why your partner choosing something else feels like abandonment.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: Acts of service may identify what brings relief, but it doesn't uncover the part of you that learned, I am completely on my own unless somebody notices how much I'm carrying.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: So this is where we think love languages is the beginning of a conversation rather than the healing framework itself.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_02: And we need to unpack all of this because clinically, if if this is the framework you're using, it's actually from my experience leading you in the wrong direction.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_02: Gary Chapman developed this from his own counseling notes over years of doing counseling with people in a Christian context.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so we noticed a pattern, right?
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: Where and including in his own marriage, where if his wife felt unloved, he would say, Well, what specifically helps you to feel loved?
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: And that's lovely to know.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: But when you have complex trauma or you have attachment wounding, or you have these other deeper wounds that are never getting addressed underneath, man, it's actually reinforcing unhealthy patterns to stop at just saying what makes you feel loved and then doing the thing.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_02: So let's unpack it a bit.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_02: All right, ladies.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_02: I'm stoked.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: I can see her.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I'm so in this.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: Question number one.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: What if your love language was never really about love?
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: What if it was about a behavior that you learned to use as proof, like false evidence that you're loved?
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: Never due to what's your face saying.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_03: I know, I know that mine was.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_03: And as you're talking, it's blowing my mind because my two biggest love languages are quality time and words of affirmation.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_03: And I would say that there are themes from very early on in my life where things were chosen over spending time with me, where I wasn't getting the validation or affirmation that I needed in certain scenarios that made the absence of those things feel like neglect and abandonment.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so I just learned something so beautiful about you, right?
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: Because as your colleague, it is useful for me to know that these are things that matter to you.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're not receiving them at work, it might bump something.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_02: But and also what happens if somebody builds their relationships and their lived experiences around these two love languages and they don't know how to turn inside and work with those parts of them that feel abandoned and unloved.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_03: And so for me, and I know that we were discussing this earlier, but I'm just gonna use physical touch for an example.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: Beautiful.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and Don, you and I work with couples, right?
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm just gonna throw this out there as an example.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_03: If you are in a marriage or relationship and your love language is physical touch, and that's the way that you receive love, is by intimacy physically from a partner.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_03: Physically, yeah.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_03: But that partner or you are not creating an environment of emotional safety to make someone feel like they want to touch you and be physically intimate with you.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't matter what your love language is, because if you're not in a relationship where you're safe enough to receive or give or be open to receiving said love language, sexual touch, you're not pushing this.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: This is the root of one of the biggest problems in my first marriage because my ex would weaponize the Bible to try to leverage physical touch as his love language, right?
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_02: But meanwhile, he was addicted to porn and all of the things that go with that, right?
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so here we have where I am positive, and Joy is gonna like pop off in a minute about this.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna give her the soapbox where we have people in marriages where partners are insisting on certain love languages without addressing that emotional safety piece that you said, Tiffany, without addressing their underlying addictions, without addressing their underlying attachment style issues.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_02: And then people are being blamed, blame, you know, blame shifting, gaslighting, all of this.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_02: You are supposed to be providing me with this thing, but without addressing the underlying core safety and attachment needs.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_02: Holy crap, Joy, go.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: No, I I so like this is so it's such a this theory is so prevalent in Christian culture where you have um, you know, premarital counseling and you base a marriage around understanding your your partner's love language, but it's it just reinforces to me, it just reinforces addictions and codependence.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: Codependence you have, right?
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because you have um my personal example.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: It was a joke in my marriage that, you know, Joy, oh Joy, what's your love language?
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, whatever my husband isn't doing, because I didn't have a safe marriage in which we were um emotionally mature enough, either one of us, to understand and and comprehend that this is just a part of me.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so whatever is activated, whatever part is on top on fire is what I needed him to do.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: But then I'm looking to him to solve the problem.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm looking within.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: So uh, you know, like when I'm feeling um overwhelmed, acts of service, great, go wash the dishes.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: But like that doesn't register, A, it didn't register to him, and B, it didn't great, he would wash the dishes, but then something else would get activated.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: So bless his heart.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: He tried.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like there were moments where he truly tried and he wanted to wash the dishes because that he knew that would help me.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: But A, that was not.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, he knew it would resolve conflict, right?
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: Because conflict avoidance.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: Avoidance, avoidance, avoidance, yes.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: So he truly tried to the best of his ability to whatever, right?
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: But then it was like, okay, but you didn't do this.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: So like you didn't say that you loved me enough today, or you didn't slap my butt enough today, or whatever.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like there was never and then when it blew up, then well, you didn't touch me enough.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: So then he weaponized my acts of service to him, and it was a um, it was like a validation that he got to to feel however he felt because I didn't do this.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: So to me, it's just it's used as a crux and as a way, uh like a crutch.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: As a like a like crutch, excuse me, a crutch instead of like dialing in what is actually happening and um articulating intimacy instead of this benign one of seven things that you can do to make me feel loved.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_03: And let I just want to say, like, that person has to make you want to do shit for them.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I'm sorry, right?
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_03: Like, Don, I know we were both in the same types of marriages the first time around.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_03: So, like when you're married to a sex addict who does weaponize physical affection, and it's more of a threat because when you're with somebody that says, I need more sex, I need more of this, the only thing that I'm doing is that is fueling my anxious attachment to say if I 100 million billion percent.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_03: If I don't fucking give him what he needs, he's gonna leave it somewhere else, right?
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_03: And so understand that like all of those things, again, we're not slamming the love languages, but what we're saying is it can't be the framework because if the emotional safety isn't there, if you haven't fixed your attachment shit, all it does is add fuel to the fire.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_03: That's it.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_03: Fuel to the fire, yeah, reinforces.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a beautiful tool to identify where the wound currently lies, right?
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: So for instance, it's information.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's information, right?
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: So for me, uh various actually, I would say for much of my adult life, gifts was one of the things that I often reached for.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: And boy, did I have like these really grandiose thoughts about what kind of gifts, like, you know, for years, my now husband, I would be like, Maserati for Christmas.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_02: What was that really getting at, right?
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: What it was really highlighting was how unsafe I felt most of my life, right?
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: As like a kid who, you know, has always worked three jobs and put herself through school, all schooling, in order to try to outrun the scarcity monster, right?
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: The financial scarcity monster, because of the way that I grew up around money.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: And so those gifts that I wanted was really just an attempt at trying to soothe all the financial insecurity that I grew up and lived with, but still lived in my nervous system.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: And those gifts would have completely missed the mark around, again, intimacy, what gift giving is meant to be about, heart-centered exchanges between two people versus like some, you know, materialistic reach for a false sense of security.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um I don't know.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: I have real problems with it.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: So go ahead.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: No, I was just gonna say, I see women so often fall into victim.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, easily, because the lack in which they are able, not even like he's not even willing, like they are able to receive intimacy or or um they're able to understand that it's a part that's activated and it's it's their responsibility to kind of dig into why it's lacking and why am I um struggling to feel love for my husband who obviously loves me like like you said earlier, um, and you can edit this out.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, it's better.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: Go for it.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, go for it.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: But but like your husband would burn the world for you 100 today.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: My today husband.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's your today husband.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: He like there's there's zero doubt.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: If you're around Don and Bryan for more than five minutes, you there's he oozes how much he loves and respects his wife.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: There's no doubt.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: But he doesn't words about it.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: He's not a man of many words.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: He's not a man of ways.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: So it this whole thing of like women could a woman who is told, taught, instructed, believes that this is the key to her.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: This unlocks her heart, or he doesn't um give me the compliments that I need, and he doesn't tell me I'm beautiful, he doesn't tell me he loves me and he but I'm sexy and all these things.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: She's not, she's not her her vision is skewed.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's he does all these things to love her.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: Literally explained because let's let's rewind the tape.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: Let's rewind the tape.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: Brian was all in love with me.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Brian fell in love with me when I my now husband would have married me in our 20s.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I could not receive that from him because what I just said, right?
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: He the way he dressed, he wasn't educated, he didn't, you know, it was like I had all of this lack of safety in my body, and then couldn't receive what was actually love and affection.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like witnessing love, affection, abiding, somebody who would have been committed in all the things, right?
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I went completely this other direction based on the wounds.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: And based on the self-doubt, based on the things that I hadn't learned to repair or give myself or have confidence in.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: And so I reached for something outside of me to solve these wounds.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: And that ended up being the other guy who was dangerous.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_02: Genuinely dangerous.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_02: So maybe, you know, anyways, you just named it, right?
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's like the love languages for any of us who have unresolved stuff from our childhoods, it's gonna end us leading us down the wrong path versus actually solving relationship issues.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_03: And from an IFS perspective, when you're talking about that, you know, in IFS, we teach there we eliminate external validation.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's the whole problem, right?
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_03: Is that women are continuing to reach for the man, the drink, the joint, the gummy, right, whatever, the distraction.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_03: So you're reaching for things to help soothe that.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_03: And so until you actually start getting that shit from yourself and you actually start self-trusting, self-love, all of that, you're gonna continue to reach.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I do agree that until you're healed, the love languages are another way that you're gonna continue to reach for something outside of yourself that you should be able to give yourself.
• 19:12
  unknown: Yeah.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_03: And it's funny because when I was craving that quality time, when I was craving those words of affirmation so badly in my life, it was because I couldn't get quality time with me.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_03: I couldn't sit in my own stillness and listen to my thoughts.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_03: So this person became a distraction, you know, words of affirmation.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_03: I had a terrible inner critic.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't believe that I was gonna be successful.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't believe that I was gonna get by.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I had so much of a scarcity mindset.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_03: I was very insecure for many years.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's kind of like I couldn't give those things to myself.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_03: So I needed my partner to give them to me.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_03: And if not, triggered the fuck out of me.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_03: I feel abandoned, neglect, I'm upset.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's not and like uh sorry, I was gonna say, and the pressure, like the pressure you put on your on your partner to soothe that from you when you're not even integrating what is actually going on inside your body, like that's unfair too.
• 20:13
  unknown: Right.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: So it could start to sound like we're like, uh, oh, you don't need these things in your marriage, which is not true, right?
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like we we're not advocating for not spending quality time in your marriage or not, not doing acts of service, or not.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: That's not what we're saying, right?
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: But what we have observed is there was never enough quality time for me.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: There was never enough.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: It didn't matter, like that's what it's you know, you could have made an effort to get off early on a Friday and it wouldn't have been enough.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: Now I want it on Thursday and Wednesday and Tuesday too.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's never enough because I never felt a sense of security.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: This was your point, I think, a moment ago, Tiffany.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_02: I never felt a sense of security in my own company that was that was consistent, right?
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: Not grounded.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like maybe I had access to it from time to time.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: And so uh it's this needing this thing to in order to be okay, right?
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not okay unless you provide me this thing in this particular way.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: And that's problematic.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: So let's let's see if we can uh map out a little bit.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: What does it look like to use the love languages in a marriage where they're also using internal family systems or um understanding addiction and codependency versus in a marriage where they're using love languages and there's no understanding of addiction codependency or internal family systems or attachment wounding or attachment styles, right?
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like how would those two things, how would you run those differently, Tiffany?
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that if somebody is using IFS and especially couples using IFS and coming together and they're identifying their cycles, it helps quiet some of those.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_03: Parts, so they're not reaching as much.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_03: In other words, it's like anything in IFS that's coming from a place of urgency is an overload to the nervous system.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_03: So it's okay to want to spend quality time with your partner, but it's not okay to feel abandoned or neglected when they choose to spend time with their kids, your collective kids together, their friends, their family, or even just on their own.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_03: So if that is stirring something up in you where it's jealousy, it's resentment, it's abandonment, it's something, that's what I tend to see towards the couples that don't have any other tools other than love language.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_03: Because you're looking for this person to fix you.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_03: That's what it is.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_03: And that is not a real thing.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_03: That can't fucking happen, like on any level.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_03: I remember I read this book, and Joy, you might be familiar with it, but it's called Captivating.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_03: It's a religious book.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_03: And it's for women, and it basically explains how so many women are activated.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_03: And you could put this, I don't care if you believe in God, the universe, whatever, put it to whatever you believe in.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_03: But when you rely on another person to fill the things that you should be filling in yourself and with your higher power, there is an imbalance.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_03: We are human, and that person is never going to be able to measure up to anything.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: Because humans are so neurotic and imperfect.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I also think, too, when you do have couples that do IFS together and are identifying things together and they get into a quote unquote more grounded state where they're more in self, I think that they can better assess the marriage to feel like, is this truly a match?
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_03: Are we in alignment?
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_03: Do we feel like we're moving in the same direction?
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_03: So then if you are, you're more apt to use those tools, right?
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_03: Like you're more apt to be able to use the tools once you understand that that my person is this.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_03: And and again, why do you think that like with my first husband, I was very anxious.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_03: I was very jealous.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_03: You know, my second husband, I wasn't.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_03: I was never jealous.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_03: And he went out more than my first husband.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_03: I never was jealous.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_03: It was the safety that he created in my nervous system and in the relationship that helped move my attachment to secure because I didn't have to worry about it.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_03: And Don, I think, and I'm gonna read this because this is a quote that I sent to Don and it blew my mind.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_03: And it simply says, There is no world where the person who constantly dysregulates your nervous system is the love of your life.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like, again, seeing how I was in my first marriage, I was very anxious.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_03: I was a jealous person, I was very resentful, I was so insecure.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_03: Moving into other relationships in my life where I wasn't like that anymore.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_03: I moved into more of a secure attachment.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_03: So a lot of times too, it's the partner choice.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: So, but this brings this brings us to a tab which is like adjacent to this conversation.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: Conversation adjacent.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: So my current husband, I would I would have still said that my nervous system was dysregulated earlier in our marriage.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: But is that because he was doing it, or was that because I still had pockets of wounding that needed transformation, right?
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: So I think this is confusing.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: Right, but it's like, um, okay, so let me let me take a jab at it.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: I still have parts and they still get activated.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: And while I don't necessarily think I would use the word triggered, I'm still activated.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like being able to tell my husband this is what's activated, this is why, and I could really use you doing XYZ.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, I'm really overwhelmed, I could really use you doing this.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: But on the flip side, he can communicate with me.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm feeling this way.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: I could really use you to rub my neck or whatever.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I can come at it with I don't have it in the tank.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: I cannot do it.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: Is there something else I can do?
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I can honor myself, but love you well.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's been the, you know, the theme of conversation lately of just like understanding and communicating once likes and needs and as a team working together.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, yes, you might not have been 100% healed.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if that's even a theme ever, right?
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: We live in a broken world.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: But right, but being able to communicate your once, likes, and needs and him being able to meet you, even if it's more of a compromise than it is fully, right?
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because he has wants, likes, and needs as well.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but being able to work on that together, like that, if I can educate my children in before dating, during dating, while dating, anything, if I can give them that of being able to collaborate, take accountability, does it and self-awareness enough to be able to walk through what's activated, why do you need this, what is happening, and not looking to him to solve the problem, but can you come alongside me in this moment?
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: And co-um, co-create this life together, not from a place of scarcity, not from a place of um fix it for me.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: Fix it for me, but join me in this and and help me be a partner to me, not uh an unhealthy wrench.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm gonna preface that again with saying that emotional safety is a first step because if you don't have a partner that you feel emotionally safe with who can hold space and support, none of this applies.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_02: None of this applies.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_03: Always, none of this applies.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_02: And how many marriages are rife with some form of addiction and codependency?
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_02: I would say pornography industry, the edible industry, the you know what I mean?
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like how many marriages, and this is a whole nother episode, but are rife with addiction and codependency.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: And when you have those issues activated without there being ownership or a process to move through them, like things like the love languages are just going to keep you in conflict cycles, resentment, codependency, and conflict cycles.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: I just think it's so important that it's just data.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's just data.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: If you can understand that it's just a tool to understand yourself better, not your partner.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: Not a framework to recover your life or your yeah.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's not about your partner, it's about you.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_03: Or even recovering your relationship.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that for so many women who are navigating divorce now and trying to figure out whether or not to dip their toes into the dating pool, it's so important for you to feel grounded and do this work before that happens to be able to set yourself up successfully.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_03: And not that you need to be 100% healed because that's not a thing, and that's not what I'm saying.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_03: But what I'm saying is you need to have a really damn clear idea of what you're looking for.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_03: You need a level of self-trust.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_03: You need to be able to listen to your intuition.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_03: There are things that need to happen in order for you to break those cycles so that you don't end up in another relationship where you're self-sacrificing, you're people pleasing, and the goal is to catch it quicker.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_03: This time, maybe I'll catch it in six weeks instead of 10 years, right?
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_02: So we don't want you to delete your knowledge of the love languages.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_02: We want you to use them as a reference point to where your wounds or your partner's wounds lie.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: And then we want you to have a much richer, deeper framework for how to respond to that woundedness.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_02: Because the love languages do not answer how to respond to the woundedness.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: If anything, if you have these wounds activated without a robust toolkit for how to respond to them, how to how to really be able to soothe your own woundedness or how to reach to your support system, not just one person to respond to your woundedness, right?
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um so it's just information to know yourself and your partner better.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_02: And then you gotta build your toolkit from there.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_02: Because otherwise, you're actually using these things as a way to numb your pain, which is just another way of saying addiction.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: You use this as a way to numb your pain, and then it's going to wear off, and then you're gonna be right back to the races needing your partner to soothe you.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_02: And had that been the conversation in premarital counseling, right?
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_02: Because I really then when I got married the first time around, was unconsciously, I didn't realize it, right?
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_02: But I was using marriage and that contract as a way to solve my abandonment issues.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, aha.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: You're legally obligated to love me now.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_02: You cannot leave me.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, yep, yep.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't know that's what I was doing.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_03: Here we are.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_03: I find it funny too that my, if you think about it, my two biggest love languages, which are quality time and words of affirmation, and then I choose to marry someone who is off to war for X amount of time out of the year, right?
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_03: So he's never near and the phone calls are minimal.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_03: It's like I was experiencing abandonment every day in my daily life.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_03: You know, every day.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so Joy, when did this whole love language thing start to pop off?
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_02: Or like when did it all click for you?
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_02: What was going on when it clicked?
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um in transparency, it was a conversation with my husband because he asked me how to serve me, how to love me, like I was not okay.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: I was super dysregulated, really activated.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: And and I kind of just blew up and I was just like, I just need you to fucking do this.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: And um, he was like, okay, but yesterday you needed this.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I was just like, it's literally the joke, right?
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's whatever you're not doing for so long.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it was a beautiful conversation between us because it was that moment when I realized it was just parts.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: It was whatever part, and we broke it down, and we it was then I just kind of kept on diving in, and then a friend sent me a reel about a psychiatrist talking about love languages and how the opposite is your toxic trait and your da-da-da-da-da.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it was just um, I feel I just I'm really getting into that as such a missed mark in once again the church culture of true intimacy.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_02: So why do we think that it that it grew so wildly popular, right?
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_02: This book is, I mean, one of the most popular relationship books.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_02: How do we think what is the sauce that made that right pop off versus internal family systems?
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: Or attachment wounding or books on codependency.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, books on codependency are also wildly popular, but is it because of its simplicity, do we think?
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like it just like a quick people, right?
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, nobody wants to come in and do it.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_03: That shit is hard.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_03: Like, who wants to sign up for IFS and EMDR right off the gate?
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like, but I don't even argue, yeah.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'd even argue that like it's not I I truly believe that people want um tools, right?
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's like a tangible tool right away.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like it read this book and you automatically know how to love your spouse.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like you take a test, you go out and you do all the things and you're like, check, I can do it.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like I can do it, I can do it.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's a quick tool that people just kind of latched on to.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like that I have actually eliminates, yeah, it actually eliminates a good bit of accountability, also, right?
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's actually like, oh, I know how to solve my marriage.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_02: You have to love me differently.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_03: Uh-huh.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_03: It's like a quick fix.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like all these quick fixes in the the physical wellness standpoint, like all the creams, all the whatever.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_03: This is a cream for your marriage.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_04: Like an icon cream.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_03: But the stuff is underneath of it, right?
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_03: The IFS work, the attachment work, the EMDR.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_03: It's impossible.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_03: That's hard.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_03: And it's also so fucking worth it.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I wish that people, more people, would come to the table to want to do the hard work.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um, yeah.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_03: And they do, you know, we work with them every day and it's beautiful work and it's hard, but it takes so much accountability.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_03: And I feel like this is a way, again, that people don't have to take the accountability.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_03: They can just say, fix you so that you can fix me.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it also underscores the problems with pastoral counseling and sometimes counseling in general, right?
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_02: So, and I want to break that down for a moment because there's counseling where a human is taught to provide witnessing from a non-judgmental standpoint, right?
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_02: To hold space for a person or two people to open up, to say the things that feel hard to say at home and to be witnessed and to be held from a non-judgmental standpoint.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_02: That is the sort of core idea behind counseling, right?
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_02: A container to have non-judgmental space to express oneself.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_02: But one of the things we talk about so much over here is the limitations of that model.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_02: That model is essential.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's a it's a core component of all healing work, right?
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_02: Is that non-judgmental witnessing of authentic expression?
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_02: But then at what point does that also need to become, I don't know, dare I call it trauma informed or energy informed about the complexities of the human psyche and the places where our shadows get stuck, right?
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_02: So how qualified are pastoral counselors to walk people through things like sex addiction and etc.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_02: and so on, codependency, right?
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_02: How much of a good idea is that?
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_02: What are your gut reactions?
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_03: We don't get to decide, obviously, but I mean, I can't really say much because the pastor that we got premarital counseling from was screwing his secretary and he was married.
• 38:25
  unknown: Right.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_03: And that came out the year after.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_03: So weirdly, yeah.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_03: I love that you are counseling my sex addicted husband while you're also sex addicted.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and that's really interesting, right?
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: Would we grab like as a as a religious culture, would we grab for this tool because it allows us subconsciously to bypass, subconsciously allows us to bypass taking ownership of the deeper issue, which is, I think, chronic, right?
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_02: In so many places.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have to dig into any of this stuff around addiction if you give me this other tool.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, look over here.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_02: So did the church subconsciously grab for this thing that allowed it to bypass accountability?
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because I don't feel like it's an environment where people want to go deep enough.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_03: Like I can't tell you how many times in session people have said to me, I've never said this out loud before.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_03: And then they say, like, how many, how honest are you gonna be in that setting?
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_03: I I don't really know.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: There's this it starts with being honest with yourself though.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like therapy couldn't only take you to the level of which you're willing to look in the mirror.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_03: And if your therapist isn't giving you tools, if your therapist isn't if you're not gonna Well, therapists can't take their clients further than they've gone.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: Right, but and I think I think a good therapist can tell when you're lying, but like you gotta be able to know yourself enough to ask yourself the questions.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um I don't think many people are even self-aware enough to ask themselves, Am I the problem?
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: How can I fix it?
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: We're we're a culture that is so into it inundated with everything else can solve the problem.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you take this shot, use this medication, use this red light.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like everything is is outside.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_00: Outside of ourselves.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like we've never been a culture of self-examination or self-awareness or self-I mean, I think it's coming.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_02: And then when we think, yeah, when we do believe we're the problem, right?
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_02: Because how many times codependency is like, oh, it must be me.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_02: I must have done something to make you mad.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_02: Are you mad at me?
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_02: What did I do wrong?
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_02: What did I do wrong, right?
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_02: The solution is rarely in the realm of alignment.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's often like, even when good codependents assume they are the problem, it's actually coming from a place of self-abandonment and people pleasing, not actually from authenticity and alignment.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_02: So even when we do reach to take responsibility, it's in an unhealthy way.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_02: We're painting with a broad brush here, right?
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_02: We're not, yeah.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_03: But IFS, again, the preface of it is that we have everything we need inside of us.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_02: And that is the thing, right?
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_02: Is that between myself and a power greater than myself, I can acknowledge that there is a God-shaped hole in my soul, not a religion-shaped hole in my soul, a God-shaped hole in my soul.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_02: And that it is by tapping into the truth of who I am, who I was created to be and become, and to be on that journey.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_02: And that there are gonna be infinite resources uh along the way, and they're going to be provided through divine uh processes, and some of those are gonna come through humans.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_02: But humans are not the source of all things.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we are sometimes a conduit for things.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_02: My husband has been following on uh Facebook this um black preacher, and he was playing a reel for me recently, maybe my daughter actually, about how so many Christians often come to church and judge people who are outside of the church community or whatever, who present with so much sin.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know, people who just present with so much sin and that um most people in church are judging people on the outside for doing what they're hiding on the inside of the church.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: On the inside for sure.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I really think that all of that has something to do with how this book, Love Languages, got so popular.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_02: Because I would agree like there's such a strong urge to keep the things hidden.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_03: But and think about, and I'm just gonna touch on this super briefly, but you know, living in Myrtle Beach for as long as I did, having that documentary that just dropped on Netflix about that pastor and his pastor's wife.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, I had thought of that a little bit.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_03: And listening to his sermons about how it is the wife's job to be sexy, to seduce her husband, to be this, to be that, to be all the things.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_03: And that man was a fucking predator.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, yeah.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_03: So I just sit here and I think to myself, I'm not against churches, but damn, like it is scary how people take what people in positions of power say and apply it to their own lives.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_00: It is not a small church, it was a big church that he was.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: It was huge.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_03: And just to kind of see some of the excerpts from his sermons, I could not imagine sitting there with my impressionable daughter listening to the shit that was coming out of his mouth.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_02: So if you were someone who tried and used the love languages in your marriage and it didn't work, good.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't ever going to.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so um I I think that's maybe part of what we want to do today, right?
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_02: Is help you release yourself from some of the coulda shulda woulda, or like, why didn't this work for me?
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_02: There's a reason it didn't work for you.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_02: And at the end of the day, um, sustainable relationships of any type, whether they're family relationships, friendships, or romantic relationships, come via truth telling, authenticity, accountability, vulnerability, you know, teamwork, collaboration, slow steady, hard conversations, um, and a mutual commitment to the truth and not to blame shifting or bypassing.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_02: And so we hope we've released you from something today, or at least given you something to think about.
• 45:27
  unknown: Yeah.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_02: And if you have not joined us yet in Cocoon or as a VIP member of the podcast, what are you waiting for?
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_02: I genuinely want to know.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_02: So much of what we talk about here in the podcast.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_02: We operationalize uh on the Thursday VIP episodes, right?
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_02: This, the the Thursday episodes are where we actually do the healing work.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of it is stuff you can be engaged in while you're doing the laundry or in the car or sleeping or for a few minutes at a time in the evenings.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but VIP is so much more than Thursday episodes.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's coming to workshops, which are completely free.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's acknowledging that we have to um integrate the things we learn about.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_02: We can't just learn.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_02: We must do.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so we want you to hop into Cocoon.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_02: We want you to use the tools, we want you to be part of our community.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we want you to engage, we want you to feel witnessed, we want you to feel um those first steps of taking action and joining, because joining is hard and it's not something we can bypass, right?
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_02: We gotta dig all the way in if we want to have the life we say we want to have.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_02: Which is transformed.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_02: So join us in VIP, which will bring you right into cocoon and um into deeper relationship with us, which is what we long for.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_02: We long to get to know you.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_02: All right, darlings.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_02: We'd love to know your thoughts on this.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_02: Send us a message inside of the Heartbeat App Cocoon or send us a DM on Instagram.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_02: We'd love to know how this landed in your body.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_02: Have a beautiful day.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_02: Peace.