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The Influence of Fiction on Grief with Katie Rossler · Groove with Portia

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Welcome to Group of Porsche, the podcast that uncovers the hidden treasures within grief.
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I'm your host, Porsche the Producer, and I'm inviting you to join
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me on a transformative journey where we will exchange laughter, of course, the
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best medicine of them all, reflect on cherished memories, remember that time that
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the little boy grabbed my hand instead of his mother's at the amusement park yikes,
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And of course, discover gratitude while navigating one of life's hardest challenges,
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loss, So get ready to grow with me, Porsche the Producer, let's
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dive in. Welcome back to Group of Porsche. Everybody. I'm your host
0:47
and executive producer, Porsche the Producer, and as always, don't forget to
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like, share and subscribe to keep with the latest and greatest of all Group
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of Porsche. So today I am joined by a returning guest who is on
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a mission to help others transform the pain from their grief into a journey of
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empowerment and discovering. So welcome back to grul Porsha License Professional Counselor, Miss
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Katie Russeler. How are you doing today, Katie? I'm good, Porsha.
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Thank you so much for having me back, and I'm excited to be
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on your show and dive into the topics that you and I tend to bond
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over. Yeah, of course, you know, growing through grief, right
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because for our audience who's tuning in, Katie came on my show in November
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of twenty twenty one, and so Katie, that was when your book The
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New Face of Grief was kind of coming out, and you know that was
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during the kind of latter part of COVID two, so there was a lot
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of I guess you can say, grief surfacing in the lives of not just
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me and you, but others around us. So, Katie, for our
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audience, you know, I'd love to start off my conversations with grated too.
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What are you grateful for today? I am grateful for today and upcoming
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vacation. We are on summer vacation here in Germany at the time that we're
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recording this, and we save our actual vacation trip at the end of the
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trip, sign like it's so grateful it's coming, So so grateful it's coming,
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Katie. I feel that I mean, especially to tie into our topic
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of the day around grief, vacation is essential. Disconnection is so key,
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and traveling. I don't know what it is about travel, but it helps
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to in a sense kind of easier grief. And we'll dive into more of
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that too. So, you know, Katie, I gotta say first and
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foremost, I'm always grateful whenever me and you get to connect. You know,
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when we first connected and you tell me about your book and I had
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the opportunity to read it, it resonated with me even before my mom made
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her transition. So I'm always extending my gratitude to you. And you know,
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this grief journey, right, there's so much growth that can happen within
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our grief journey if we learn how to embrace it. And so, Katie,
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I actually took the time to listen to our previous conversation that we had
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back in November, and for our audience, you'll be able to see the
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link to our previous conversation in the comments and description. So, Katie,
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one of the things that you've talked about was how self care is a non
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negotiable right, especially at that time you had your ten month old at the
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time, Katie, I'm curious for our audience, how can we learn to
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in a sense, incorporate our grief into our day to day, just like
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we incorporate self care. Yeah, so what I encourage my clients to do
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is that we don't have to grieve throughout the day, though it will show
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up. If we a lot a time on space for grief to have its
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presence be fully experi enced, then it allows us to go about the rest
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of our day without it maybe as negatively impacting. Now this is for those
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who are experiencing and you and I know I talk about hidden grief. This
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can be grief related to death. But in the first month or so after
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a grief related to death experience, you're going to be grieving all the time.
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There is no let me try to control this and contain it. I'm
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really talking about that grief that's been with you for a while, that maybe
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came because of life transitions, changes, moves, adjustments, losses in a
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variety of ways, and really letting go of the way we thought like would
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or should go. So when we create space for that grief, whether it
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be sitting down and journaling or doing some meditation, or going for a walk
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in nature to just really reflect on you know, maybe sadness that's still there,
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or anger, bitterness, frustration, hurt, questioning. You know,
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there's lots of things come up in grief. When we create that space for
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that, then we'll notice there's more harmony in the rest of our week because
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we hold that space each day. And that could be as easy as at
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the end of the day journaling not only the grief you're still working on,
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but maybe some things that got kicked up throughout the day, things that triggered
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you or upset you. You know, when we talk last time as well,
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its self care isn't just you know, glass of wine and bubble bath
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like. Self care is really taking care of your body, listening to your
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body rather than just eat your feelings, eat what your body needs for nutrients,
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doing things to exercise and get the stress hormones moving out of your system.
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Being able to take that time for mental health, whether it be talking
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to a coach or a therapist, or doing the journaling and reading a personal
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growth book. Like there's so many ways this shows up, but often in
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grief what we do is we assume, well, I'm sitting with my grief
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while I wallow on the couch, eating the tub of ice cream and the
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potato chips, and I'm just feeling it all. And actually what we're doing
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is compounding the feeling of grief by messing with our brain chemistry and our body's
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hormones. So it's actually not sitting, you know, in the way it's
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sitting with a grief, but like amplifying it. And that's not to say
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that we don't have moments where we need to have, like those like wallow
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in it. But self care has gotten such an interesting either the reputation,
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like I said, of like the beauty beautiful, like oh look, I
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mean I have a glass of wine. I'm sitting here and this is all
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for me, or I'm just sitting around and I'm not really taking care of
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myself. But I'm telling myself I deserve this, and this is self care
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and there's a happy middle. There's a happy middle that's unique to you.
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And what you need is to stop and listen to yourself to find out what
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those self care activities are and then make the space for those daily. You
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know, Katie, Just like the last time, I'm literally thinking of the
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analogy of the buoy the life jacket of grief, right, each and every
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one of us grief is a universal experience, right, But for some of
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us we just lay in the ocean with the life jacket, versus some of
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us find a way to flip over and swim the shore. Right. And
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you know, Kay, I love how you hit back on the commercialization of
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self care. It's become a trend, just like for a period of time,
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mental health was a trend all over social media, where you know,
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people are like, oh, I'm having a mental health day. But for
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people like me who have had those days where I didn't feel comfortable to tell
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my employer I can't come to work today because literally my mind is crippling.
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Yeah, you know, And I think, Katie, one of the other
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things I wanted to go back to was how you mentioned and the grief of
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how life should be, that hidden grief. And I remember, Katie,
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when I was nineteen at my very first job, when and that just sprung
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up this memory of I remember talking to my co workers. Now I was
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the youngest one in my department at the time, but I remember them saying
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to me like, oh, you know, you just come in every single
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day, you do this task, you do that, And I'm like,
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wait a minute, this is all there is I remember, it's so profoundly
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I'm sitting in a chair and I just literally felt my heart sink, like
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what this is it? And Katie, can you maybe touch a little bit
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more on that for our audience, because I think all of us has been
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in this boat where we have this hidden grief of whether our career should have
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went this way, we should have started a family at this time, or
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I know for me, and I'm gonna try not to get emotional, but
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if I do, I'm gonna keep talking. For me, I should have
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had both of my parents present for my wedding day, but I know that
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that's not going to be the case. So Katie, for our audience,
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can you elaborate on that how our audience can give themselves some grace from that
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hidden grief of how life should have been at whatever stage they are in their
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life. Yeah, definitely. So we have to realize that throughout our childhood
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and teen years and even young adult, we are constantly being fed how life
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should look, how we should be. You're too loud, you're too quiet,
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you know this, or that you should get better grades, you should
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try less, whatever it might be. So we're constantly being pushed and pulled
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into the spot. And in that time, we're watching Disney movies, TV
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shows, and we're seeing depictions of fictional characters and how their lives looked.
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And I swear that the generation that I start right now when I do couples
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therapy, which is on a rare occasion now, but I used to do
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it a lot. One of the biggest problems they had was like like the
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Disney issue of like, you know, but he's not this and he didn't
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do this, and he didn't I'm like, yeah, that's that's a Disney
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character's like you know, he's going to rescue me and then he's going to
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stay the same the rest of the movie. Night Like, no, that's
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not how it works. So I think we were fed a lot that made
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us understand or believe how life should look. And when we come to real
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life by like real life experiences and hashtag adulting, and we're like, wait,
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mail is no more fun to get, you know, the usually bills
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and now I have a car payment and like all of these things right,
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like insurance, You're like, wait, I need insurance for what it?
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The reality doesn't doesn't feel or taste as good, and we're no longer feeling
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as driven and motivated. And so there's a point where we have to grieve
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and let go of how we thought life would be so that we can help
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kind of in sense, create the life we want. Use whatever terminology you
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want, manifest, prey, you know, whatever, we want to have
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things occur a certain way, but we have to first remove the should have
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It should have looked like this. And when you say, you know,
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my my parents should have been here for that wedding day that will come in
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the future, Yes, like there's this, I'm going to call it out
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because I had it with my my third My mom wasn't around for my third
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Like that's the dream is that that parent the parents are there to support you
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on every like life journey and next step of progress that you make. But
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the reality is we're all human beings with bodies and we all have you know,
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a variety of a different time of when this time to go right or
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maybe it could have been health issues, it could have been addiction, it
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could have been something that would have kept them from being a part of your
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life event or my life event. And that's the piece where it's like we
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have to start realizing life isn't going to be the ideal dream that we probably
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pictured. And that's okay, that's totally normal, but we have to grieve
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it. We have to grieve it so that we can go, Okay,
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what does reality look like? And what are the things I can control in
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the reality I have right now? And how would i'd like to shift some
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of those things? Like maybe, you know, maybe come wedding day,
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there's some special things I can do to make it feel like their presence is
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there and something they would have loved. And I'm still going to grieve on
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that day, just like I grieved my mom wasn't there for the birth of
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my third and it never got to meet her and there will be no memory
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making for her around my mom. I allow myself to grieve it, but
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also know I can share stories and that my old er two can tell her
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about her grandmother and things like. It's just about looking at what is life
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right now? If I removed the shoulds and the belief systems, and really
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it's hopes, but we say they should have and it was I had hoped
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this would be this way, and we allow that to be sad and difficult
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and frustrating, and you know, whatever feelings come up, then we can
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go Okay. So I can't change the past, and I can't change that,
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But what is it that I can do today to make me feel more
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connected, to help me better understand that job and work out? But maybe
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there are opportunities that are supposed to come. Maybe it's about a different type
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of education and are shifting, you know, a focus. I believe that
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when we stop holding on so tight to the shoulds, then opportunities show up
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because it's like, oh okay, they just don't chuck the way we think
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they should goes back to the shoots, right, and we have to stay
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open to those. But you can't stay open to them. You can't even
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see them when you have your blinders on with this is the way likes supposed
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to go. Well, like the saying go stop shooting on yourself. I
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mean literally, it's it's a real thing when you think about it, because
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when you look at the words should, there's the intent of ending right,
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there's no openness. Right. This is enclosed, signed, sealed, delivered
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in a box like you order it from Amazon. It's supposed to come exact
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actually the way that it's pictured on Amazon. But as we both know,
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Katie, life and greed does not work that way at all. That's so
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true. I always joke with them people that I work with, They talk
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about, you know, the whole grass is greener on the other side and
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the whole but life would have been I was like, girl, you would
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have had to cut the grass on either side. So there no matter how
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life would have worked out, you would still have to do work. It
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would not be easy. There would still be challenges that would come and that
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I think we had this again the Disney idealistic but it could have looked like
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this, but you still would have had to do personal growth work. You
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still would have faced mental health and stress issues. You still would like all
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of these things still would be there no matter what. It's just a life
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event that there was a loss or a change or something that that transition that
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you weren't prepared for. Kay. Yeah, I love that phrase of the
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grass is always greener on the other side, because there's a conditional phrase within
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that that people forget to add. The grass is only greener when you water
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it, right, that's the part that people forget. You have to still
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water it. It's only going to be greener on the other side because you
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took the time to water it, to nurture it where you're able to make
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that pivot in your career and your journey. Right. So, Katie,
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before we jump into the next part of our conversation, for our audience who
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is tuning in, if they're interested in connecting with you and learning more about
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you, can you share your social media or website where they can find you.
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Yeah, definitely, so my website if Katie Wrestler dot com. You
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can find me on Instagram at Katie dot wrestler. And I have my own
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podcast called The Balance Code, where I work with people in learning or stress
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management tools to be careful around the world. Burnout not heading that way because
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ultimately what causes us to be burnout is hidden grief, things we have not
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resolved within ourselves. So I used the podcast as a way of really bringing
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people into the conversation around hidden grief, but in a way that's a lot
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more accessible for many people. And I appreciate that, Katie, So those
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of you definitely tune into our podcast. I've been following Katie ever since we
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first met, and I can definitely recommend you'll get some nuggets for thought Katie
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for our audience. Both me and you have something in common. We both
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lost our moms. Your mom made her transition in twenty eighteen and mine was
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in twenty twenty two, And so I'm curious, Katie, for our audience,
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how has your grief journey in a sense evolved since number one, the
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transition of your mom, and also since the release of your book. Yeah,
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so I think first, so we're gonna be hitting five years in October.
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What has helped me is really looking at life realistically and even the reality
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back then. Had COVID hit for my mom, if she had gotten sick,
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she lived alone, my brother lived far away, I lived in a
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different country. I would not have been able to go and be with her.
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And let's say she had passed away, then I would not been able
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to bury her or be allowed to even come like. There would have been
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a lot of rules. If I had been able to go into the States
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to help Barrier, I would not have been allowed back in Germany. So
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there were a lot of rules at the time that I think while I was
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saved from a lot of stress of difficult decision making because we also were we
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got pregnant at the beginning of COVID as well, So it was this that
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would have been you know, I just can't imagine having to go through that
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loss during that time. So I think about that, the things that have
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happened in the world, the things that have happened in life, and how
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would that have affected my mom or affected our relationship or things, and I
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go like, wow, in some ways, it was defined timing that it
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happened how it did, so that in case anything would have occurred, I
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didn't my brother and I didn't have to go through that. As far as
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since the book has been out, I think having more and more people share
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with me their own stories and working with my clients and just knowing how normal
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this is, it helps me to honor those times where I feel, you
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know, that emptiness of missing her, or it also helped me, you
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know, hearing people tell stories of like I swear my mom came to visit
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me as a bird, or I swear this happened because of this, and
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it's like it helps you feel less crazy when you were like, ah,
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yeah, okay, good because I feel my mom a lot. And when
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I want to connect and I'm not alone, you know, I'm not the
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only one who's like, yeah, there's there's this other world out there and
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hey, mom, let's have a conversation. So I would say the book
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gave the opportunity for more sharing. And as you know, in the book,
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I have people share their stories too, because I wanted people to see
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hidden grief from different angles. So it's not just about deaths. Some people
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share about health issues and moving and things like that. So I have loved
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hearing how grief is starting to transform people's lives when they started to realize that
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it's like the tool in our lives that we all experience, like the experience
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we have, but like the tool we can use to help us grow.
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Yeah, I would say that is really made to be like, Okay,
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everything I go through I'm not alone. Everything I feel around grief, I'm
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not the only one who's feeling it. In this moment. I may feel
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alone, but that it's just a feeling. I know I'm not. And
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in this day and age of social media, you can very very easily post
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in a variety of different places I am going through this and I think this
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or feel this, and you will get a flood of me too, or
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I've been there, or I know someone who's going through that too, let
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me connect to you. And I think that piece has been really pivotal in
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helping me in my own healing journey of just knowing, like you always know
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logically you're not alone, but when you really feel it in the sense of
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the energy of other people coming together and going this book has helped me.
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I'm seeing things in a new way, and I'm experiencing grief in a new
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way. I think it helps your own grief process as well. Hetty.
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I'm curious you brought up about connecting with your mom in a different form of
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communication. I know, for me, my mom comes to me in the
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form of a monarch butterfly or a cardinal or a yellow swallowtail butterfly. What's
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the ways that your mom has come to visit you? So for me,
22:03
when I go back home to Mississippi where she grew up, there is a
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big magnolia tree there, and I will go and just sort of sit at
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the base of it and sometimes like hold the leaves and there'll be a wind
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inevitably that comes through and I just feel it all over me and I just
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know she's there. So in that way, I have her now here,
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I just say hey, Mom, and I just have a conversation. So
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it's just more about like a continual connection. My brother says that she comes
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as a cardinal to their home. Now where I live, we don't have
22:36
cardinals, so you know she has she comes. My kids will tell you
22:40
she comes as particular birds. If we're out on a hike or something,
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there's just a bird that kind of like follows us. She's like, They're
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like, it's Grandma, and I'm like, yeah, so she loved birds,
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So I would agree with that. But I I find that she's just
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always there, so it isn't about a particular thing that brings her. Her
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presence is the most strong one. I connect with the land where she grew
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up and a place that's really important to me as well, and I was
23:06
just there recently. I will share though, So I had two miscarriages in
23:11
twenty nineteen, which we had talked about two in the last episode, and
23:18
I can think of it in German dragonfly Libella in German, a dragonfly comes
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to me since the miscarriages, and that for me is just a reminder of
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what I've overcome, and that there's this little presence, too little presences that
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are out there just still wanting to connect and be there. But it gives
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me hope, Like I don't see those things and feel a sense of sadness,
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I feel a sense of like, ah, yes, And that I
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think is pivotal. And when you see those symbols that represent your your loss
23:52
or the change you've experience, you can kind of decide is this going to
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be super sad and you feel worse or is this going to give me a
24:02
sense of hope that I'm still connected and I still have an ability to see
24:07
the world in the bigger perspective now because of this loss of this change or
24:11
experience. You know, Katie, I can relate to that the dragonflies and
24:17
even I want to add in your dreams if your loved one comes to visit
24:22
you. And that recently happened for me when I went to Canada in the
24:26
episode that I titled Healing Above Healing Across Borders, where I did a solo
24:33
episode and I talked about my mom's visit in my dream and she literally told
24:37
me, she said, Porsha, I'm okay, Porsche, I am okay,
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And I felt her presence like we were sitting in my kitchen and for
24:47
my audience and people who know how my kitchen is set up. There has
24:49
been numerous transformative conversations at that kitchen table throughout my whole life. And one
24:59
of the things that my mom said to me was, Porsche, let go
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of any and all resentment that you have to anybody about your grief journey because
25:11
they don't understand. Yeah, yes, and yeah yeah, And I'll be
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honest Katie. When I woke up from that dream, I was not sad
25:26
at all. And I looked it up. I said, let me look
25:30
this up because I feel like this is a powerful message that she just delivered
25:33
to me, and emotionally, I don't feel that despair sadness. Yeah.
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Like, yeah, I was sad because I didn't want to let her go
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because I'm like, well, wait, I want to Can we stay at
25:47
to get your table a little longer, have some more coffee and talk and
25:48
whatever. And literally I looked it up and it said like, depending on
25:56
your emotions from the dream shows your growth or hinderance in your grief journey.
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And what I took from that is my mom is giving me permission to move
26:11
forward. Yes, yes, would you needed to hear to feel safe to
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do that. And I think the beautiful thing is when you have through dream
26:22
or it's symbol or whatever, when you have the presence of someone come to
26:26
you and release you of the I have to hold onto this burden forever.
26:30
You feel peace. You're right, like, you don't feel more sadness.
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You just feel a sense of like ah, And that, to me is
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what grief healing is about. It's not that that you will never be sad
26:42
again. You will there all the time. There will show up and you'd
26:47
be like, whoa, I'm sad and I didn't even think that would be
26:48
a trigger for my sadness. But it's not wallowing, you know, I'm
26:55
struggling sadness. It's man, I feel emptiness that's left. And what you've
27:03
learned to do is you can create something with that emptiness and hold it as
27:07
a container for others challenges or transitions or things, and you're able to sit
27:12
with them even better because you know what that space feels like. Yeah,
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Katie, it truly. And then even the next day when I woke up
27:22
from the dream, right, I'm not making this up. When we were
27:26
in Canada, we were in Toronto, we went to this butterfly conservatory and
27:30
none of the butterflies would land on me. Right. But then the very
27:34
next day after this dream, we go to explore Toronto and we're right outside
27:40
of this Mexican restaurant and this monarch butterfly just smoozes in right in front of
27:48
me, and I'm like, no freaking way, no freaking way. So
27:51
of course I'm taking video of it, taking pictures of it. And I
27:53
touched this wing and it just kind of like nodded at me. I said,
27:56
okay, Mom, okay. So again like just being open right to
28:03
that and finding comfort. You're right because I think for a long time,
28:07
Katie, I held on to so much, so much, and then it
28:12
took my father to make his transition for me to innocence, hit that rock
28:18
bottom and admit that I wasn't okay. Yeah, and it was okay to
28:23
not be okay in that sense. Yeah, definitely, Katie. Again,
28:32
I extend so much gratitude again for you coming on and sharing again your words
28:37
of wisdom and playbook of change for our audience to help them to convert their
28:45
grief to a place from pain to empowerment. We're gonna be wrapping up here
28:51
soon, Katie, And for our audience again, if they want to connect
28:53
with you and learn more about you, please share your social media and website
28:57
yep so at Katie wrestler dot com and on Instagram at Katie dot wrestler r
29:03
O ssl R and then you can find me on my podcast The Balance Code.
29:08
Excellent, Katie. I always love to save this question for last,
29:14
and you've left us with so many ways to see our grief from a place
29:22
of growth instead of a place of imprisonment. What words of inspiration Katie,
29:27
Key you lee with our listeners today, especially if they were in your shoes
29:33
in two thousand and eighteen and they're looking to change their grief from being too
29:41
painful to a purposeful journey. What words of inspiration Key you lee with them
29:45
today? You know, I think the biggest thing I could say to inspire
29:52
you wherever you are on your journey is to remind you that part of the
29:56
healing process around grief is you get too let go of all those shoulds like
30:03
we talked about, and you get to now redefine life on your terms.
30:07
I think when we reach enough losses and we hit that rock bottom, we
30:11
realize we can't live life the way we were and the way we thought about
30:15
things, the way we acted in the habits that we had no longer carry
30:21
us into this next chapter of our lives. So if you can start to
30:23
see grief as this pivotal moment of being in that cocoon before the butterfly comes
30:29
out, I need to transform and it will be painful and uncomfortable. But
30:33
as soon as I come out of that cocoon and really let my wings out
30:38
and see myself in this new way, it's the next chapter of your book.
30:44
So challenges, I've gotten to a point whereas the grief comes, I
30:48
know what's coming afterwards. I remind myself, you know, it's like going
30:52
to the gym. There's a reason it feels good. Like I'll feel good
30:55
in a week or two and I've done this and I'll be like, yeah,
30:57
so it's going okay. I know I'm going through this time. There's
31:03
a reason for it of shaping me into the next chapter of my life,
31:07
and I get to let go of all that stuff that I was holding onto
31:11
that was weighing me down and seeing the opportunities that come just in the sadness,
31:18
in being more raw and honest with yourself and vulnerable with other people.
31:22
I think those pieces are invaluable. You can't recreate those like that has to
31:29
really be genuine in the moment. Like I always say, Katie to everybody,
31:34
your story is not for you. Your story is to help others to
31:41
stop making the cemetery wealthier. Yeah goodness, well, everybody, that was
31:48
our transformative licensed professional counselor Miss Katie Russeler that you heard from. And that
31:56
concludes another episode I Grew Up Porsche season number two. Thanks for listening,
32:01
Peace and hair Grease. Everybody, Thank you so much for tuning in to
32:07
grow with Porsche. Remember to subscribe to my channel for the latest episodes,
32:12
and of course follow me on social media. Can follow me on Instagram at
32:15
Porsche the Producer. Anyway, guys, until we meet again, Peace and
32:22
hair Grease.