Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / I Switched From Investment Managment to Financial Planning £0 - £40m AUM in 3 years! | Samantha Wood

Transcript

I Switched From Investment Managment to Financial Planning £0 - £40m AUM in 3 years! | Samantha Wood · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: So, what does it take to go from zero to 40 million under management in three years?
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Our guest, Samantha Wood, explains it all.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: She transitioned from a career within the military to a decade in investment management before finally becoming a financial planner through St.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: James's place.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: We go deep into the type of clients that she supports, why she believes that financial planning is a well-being proposition, and why self-employed was the right route for her, and why you should consider a career within financial planning.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: So, Samantha, thank you so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life podcast.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: How are you?
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_03: I'm good.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_03: And you, Sam?
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very well, very good.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: Got a busy old day of filming here at St.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: James's Place.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: We have a fantastic partnership with them.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: We love coming back to St.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: James's Place.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: We love talking to partners.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: I always find the partners have some incredible stories because so many have come from different backgrounds, different professions.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: And you yourself, military, investment management at 31, spent a decade in investment management, stepped away from investment management, but now you run your own very successful partner practice.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I think a lot of people out there would be very interested in that transition, especially from the military as well.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what does that teach you?
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: What does that teach us?
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: What does it teach your clients?
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: What value?
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: How do you show up for people?
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: We love all of that.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you very much for joining me.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: We had a great chat on the pre-podcast.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: One of my favourite things about podcasting is the pre-podcast chat because I tend to find that I get to know somebody really well at that stage, and you were a really interesting guest, so no pressure.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: Right, well, just take us take us, um, take us into your career in the military and how you ended up working in financial services.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: So let's go there.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about the military first.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: So I always knew I wanted to join the army from about the age of 12 or 13.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_03: So I was very set on that at school.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_03: And literally the day after my 16th birthday, I went to an army recruiting centre and I signed on and became a soldier.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_03: So I was very headstrong and determined and knew what I wanted to do.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_03: So I had a plan at that point around my career.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't know how long I was going to be in the army at the time.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_03: I thought it might be three or five years or it might be forever.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_03: You sign on for 22 years, but that doesn't mean that you always have to stay for that long.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I moved from soldier to officer during that period of time.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_03: So after about five years, I went to Sandhurst.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, I obviously enjoyed what I was I was doing.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um when I reached the rank of captain, so after about 10 or 11 years, I felt like there was something else out there for me.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_03: I felt like I'd only ever known the army.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_03: I'd grown up in the army, really.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um, a great career, and I look back on it with with fondness.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um and I wasn't really sure what I was going to do when I left the army.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I had five different job offers.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um, two were in finance, one was project management, other another two were recruitment.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_03: And believe it or not, I started off in recruitment.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_03: So came into London, went to office in Holborn, quite a large firm.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_03: And after a few months, I realised that probably wasn't the right answer.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_03: But I guess my first point around that is that you know, you don't always have to a lot of people think, well, what I'm going into next has to be forever.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, not being afraid to go and take a risk and try something and find out if it's for you or not.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_03: So for me, I didn't have a plan around I'm going into finance or even what I'm going to do, but just knew that I wanted to be outside of the military.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: Love it.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_03: So that was my starting point.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: What did the military teach you, do you think?
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: What was your biggest takeaway from the military?
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_03: I guess, and it's almost an obvious one, but discipline.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_03: So you absolutely have to be disciplined, you have to be consistent and you have to be really structured around your thinking.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_03: But I think something that was also really um a great transferable skill, and we'll come on to how I think I ended up moving into finance because of that, but it's really around the adaptability, and that's across everything.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_03: So being adaptable in the environments that you work, with the people that you work with, with your communication style, and being able to change that in a moment and actually realizing, okay, I actually need to switch at this point.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_03: And it's not about being inauthentic, but actually being more authentic to the situation or the people that you're working with at the time.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you're working across ranks, you're working across cat badges, you might even be working across, you know, nationalities.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, I think that's a big transfer into what we do.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, great.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: What about leading, people skills, communication?
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: Do you get a lot of that from the army?
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_03: And that was a that is still a big love of mine.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_03: And I think I lead in a different way now in terms of, you know, my business.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_03: That there's a a small team, so it isn't leadership of large teams.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_03: You know, one of the largest teams that I led as a 22-year-old, you know, young officer was over 50, you know, young men and women, and that's a large, you know, in operational environments.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and some have been in the military for a long time.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_03: And you're a young officer fresh out of Sandhurst, and thankfully I had the background as a soldier to help me with that.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, leadership, communication, it's it's also a I think a confidence, you know, one of the things you have to have when you're, I think in any leadership role, but particularly in the military, you know, you're asking people to do things that put themselves in danger often that make them uncomfortable.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_03: And you have to be a you have to have the credibility and confidence to lead them through that.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_03: And something that's always been really important to me is actually to leave from the front.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, don't ask somebody to do something that you wouldn't be willing to do yourself.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: So if I asked you to do an Iron Man, you'd say, Yeah, I've done it.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_03: I'd love it.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_03: I've done a few.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: Have you?
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: Have you done well in the Iron Man?
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've done three.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, really?
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_03: A number of half Ironmans, a number of um ultramarathons.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_03: Don't do them these days.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_03: I had a back operation a few years ago, which I'm sure we'll come on to.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_03: So again, I had to switch my focus.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_03: But um, yeah, I mean, actually, one of the things that um you know I talk about three pillars, so physical well-being, mental well-being, and financial well-being being interlinked, and that's still really important to me.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_03: It's obviously really important in the military to be fit and healthy and and strong, but actually bringing that discipline into what I do now, you know, still I only had 20 minutes this morning.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't have time to do a full workout, but I still went down to the gym because for me it's the showing up, it's the discipline to say it's it's being consistent.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that comes into the type of client I work with as well, where they expect a certain level of discipline and and consistency.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to stay with the military a minute because a lot of people from the military they do they do want to leave.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: And when they're thinking about leaving, you were lucky enough you had a few job offers.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: Some of them weren't right.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um but uh what what went through your mind at the time when you were thinking about leaving?
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: Because there's probably some people who are considering St.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: James's Place Academy, for instance, got a great, great relationship with the with the military.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh what were you thinking at the time and what advice would you give them in respect of going out and just taking a look outside of the military?
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: What because I can imagine you can almost be conditioned in the military to kind of feel like, is it a good idea to leave, or do they encourage you to leave?
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what how does it how does it feel?
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: How would what advice would you give somebody if they're thinking, I think I've had enough?
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_03: I think firstly go and talk to other people that have been through the transition.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_03: So that's one of the things that I I did straight away.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_03: I looked for organisations that that help.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_03: So for example, I'm not sure if it exists in the same way anymore, but there was an organization called the Officers Association.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_03: So I went and spoke to them.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_03: I got help with writing my CV.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um, we have lots of AI tools now, but we obviously didn't have those available at the time.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_03: And so being able to translate your military experience into you know language that that everyone can understand, that that can be quite a challenge.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I think it's really being open-minded and just trying to understand what's out there because certainly, from my perspective, I didn't really know what was open to me.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I certainly didn't realise that I could go into an industry, a field that felt really technical, felt like something I'd had no exposure to.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_03: And certainly in the military, you finance and money isn't something you deal with on a daily basis.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_03: In fact, even think about, you know, so a lot of soldiers will find themselves in a position and officers, of course, um, any rank, where you don't need to think about money because your accommodation's already paid for once you get paid.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_03: You have food, you have the mesh, you have the cookhouse, um, you have to wear uniforms.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_03: So actually, your civvies, you know, they can be few and far between.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_03: You you you live your life pretty much in uniform and sports kit.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_03: So that all changes when you leave and you realise I've basically got to pay for everything.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so yeah, so I think suddenly being around finance and money can be can be quite scary.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_03: I think just yeah, trying to understand how people approach their journey and going and talking to people and then finding what spikes your interest.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's probably the first thing.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_03: But also maybe having a few, almost like a checklist.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_03: So you're gonna have to have some basics, like where does it need to be?
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_03: Am I happy to travel?
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_03: Do I want to live somewhere else?
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_03: Financially, what does that need to look like?
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_03: I think a number of people leave the military for financial reasons because actually you can we can talk about the different benefits of being in the army, but actually you could move into an equivalent, say, leadership role with equivalent responsibility, and actually, you know, your remuneration would be generally a lot a lot higher outside of the military.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_03: So that's something that others look at.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: So a good idea, you know, a good idea for anyone listening and they're in the military right now and they're thinking about stepping out is probably go speak to a financial planner that understands both sides of the fence, right?
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: Somebody who can sit down with you explaining this is what it's gonna look like in silly world, this is what you're gonna need, this is what your military pension looks like, and this is how it's gonna look after you.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um and that's put a plan down together.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's sometimes like get to know thyself and your own journey through somebody with experience of like with you that has a niche within military and financial planning is a really good start for somebody at that space just to kind of open their mind to it.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: You never know, a bit like you, you might end up in financial planning, right?
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it wouldn't surprise you to know I have a number of clients who are either still serving.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_03: In fact, I met one last night when I was here in London, um, or who have who have left because again, it's finding, like you say, people like you that understand you know what journey you might be on or have been on.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_03: And also military pensions are quite nuanced as well.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_03: So often the financial planning you're doing with somebody who's serving or previously served can, depending on how long um and what their pension might look like, the pension planning can almost become an aside, i.e., you know, they're pretty well look looked after in terms of what their pension looks like, but actually it's the here and now, as you say, in understanding that income and expenditure scenario and what are the things they could be doing to be really tax efficient.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so you were in the military, that came to an end, and you found yourself in financial services for over nearly a decade in investment management.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: And wasn't something you probably thought about as a kid.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: I want to be an investment manager when I'm on it.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely not.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: So tell us a little bit about that journey.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: How did you end up in investment management?
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: Take us back to the start.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_03: So again, it wasn't part of the plan.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_03: I was actually at a networking event again here in London.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that also highlights it's just being out around people.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_03: It was an ex-military networking event.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I was there promoting my own business at the time.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_03: So I was I basically built a business around well-being, working with a number of corporates, so again, around what I'm passionate about.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_03: So the sort of well-being uh wellness space.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I met somebody who was working at Wrathbones.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_03: They were recruiting for so very large investment firm.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_03: And they said, actually, have you ever thought about finance and investment management?
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_03: I said, No, actually.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_03: We had a conversation.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_03: They said, Well, we're recruiting at the moment.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's something you'd be really interested in.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, it wasn't for an investment manager role, it was for a business development role in their financial well-being team.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_03: So somebody to go in and set up a financial well-being um arm, if you like, of their of their firm.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_03: So I said, Well, how am I gonna, you know, how would I fare at an interview?
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I haven't I've been in the military, I've, you know, I don't have experience of financial services.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_03: And he said, Well, look, part of the interview is a 10-minute presentation.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_03: So think about what you could come to the interview with.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_03: And um, again, we didn't have AI, so you know, I couldn't just go, right, give me a You had to actually do it.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, had to actually A do the presentation, but also come up with the idea, which uh yeah, seems a world away.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I did it on transferable skills.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_03: So I went into the interview and my I I actually remember the last PowerPoint slide, very old school now, it look really awful.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but lots of remember the speech bubbles with all of the different um, you know, skills that I felt that I would bring to the to the company.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't really talk about finance much, I was really honest, and so I'd obviously done my research on the firm and I'd sort of had a bit of a headline knowledge, but I just said, look, I'm willing to learn, um, I can be taught skills, but this is what I know I already have.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and that got me the job.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: What was the typical type of client that you're working with in investment management then?
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_03: So there's a minimum investment.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_03: So the minimum investment was 250,000.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_03: So the starting point was around that level, and bear in mind it's a discretionary fund management portfolio that you're that you're running for them.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_03: So that tends to not be their only their only wealth.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so yeah, I would say there were sort of high net worth clients.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um, some of the largest clients had tens of millions with us on the desk.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_03: So basically, I went in on this financial well-being role, which I I think after three weeks they offered me a permanent role.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_03: So it was a contract.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_03: And at that point I said, Yeah, I'll take a permanent role as long as you pay for me to do my qualifications or sponsor me through my qualifications.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like I would I need the credibility and knowledge.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_03: Investment management for dummies is not cutting it anymore.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_03: I'm really going to need to, you know, go on the charter journey.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_03: And they said, Okay, great.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_03: So basically within a few weeks, I was on an investment desk as an assistant investment manager working with clients.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_03: So I think going back to, you know, at this point I was 31 and I'd obviously, as you say, I'd served for a period of time.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_03: I'd had a few years in the sort of commercial space, but I felt like and and obviously they felt like I had the confidence and I guess the credibility to be around clients despite the fact I wasn't qualified.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um and so I had this really great opportunity to it took me two or three years to obviously go through my level four, my charter exams.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and during that period of time, I was not only shadowing other investment managers and and learning from them, but actually in front of clients and developing my my trade, I guess, and my my skill set.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: So instantly they recognized, as I have recognised, you're great with people.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't it?
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well that's it, isn't it?
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, like that's that's one of the biggest skills that you can have.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: If you sit down with somebody, can you put somebody at ease?
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: Can you communicate well?
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, can you ask great questions?
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um do you have diligence when it comes to asking the questions and writing things down and remembering it?
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: These are all things that people like when they meet somebody.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they remember them.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and they give them a great experience.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I think the whole client experience is a major thing, and sometimes it's lacking a little bit within financial planning.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, people are kind of so numbers driven they forget that it's all about relationships.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: And some of the best financial planners I know will hand on heart say, I don't know everything about investments, yeah, but I know people.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a huge part of it.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the transferable skills and something you've developed in the military, you know, talking to different people at all different levels and getting people buy in, isn't it?
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: You need them buy-in, you need them to like you, to follow you, to lead you.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh sorry, not to lead you, for you to lead them and follow you as you go.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a really great transferable skill.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: So you were pulled into meetings a lot, like let's get some other in there, let's get a meeting client.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: And do you feel that client exposure within that environment really elevated your learning?
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_03: And my confidence.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_03: So I remember some of the early meetings, particularly with some of the larger clients.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_03: So they had, you know, larger portfolios with us.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um, had one particular client and family who were very technical.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_03: They used to run their own investment management firm and they had, you know, a really um uh let's call it interesting portfolio and they wanted meetings every three months.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember going into some of those first meetings, really nervous that they were going to ask me questions that I didn't know how to answer.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_03: And I guess the def difference is now I'd feel confidence and say, I don't know the answer to that, but actually I'll come back to you, or this is what I understand.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_03: But at the time I felt like I needed to know the answers, and I think that was also why I needed to do my qualifications, just so I felt like I had that confidence.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_03: But what I also realize is they're just people, you know, and that everyone has their own experiences.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_03: And if you're honest about where you are in your journey and what you do know, you know, actually they warned you more rather than you trying to say, well, yeah, of course, I've been in the role six months and I know everything there is to know about investment management, which clearly I didn't.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_03: So I actually use it as a really good experience to learn from them as much as, you know, how do you like to work with your investment manager?
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, what if we did things a bit differently?
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_03: Or would you like to see things presented in this way?
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, just gives you an opportunity to look at it differently.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: Started to understand the client.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: What their pain points are, what they actually want and deliver that.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: Qualifications you mentioned there.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so you started your qualification journey in investment management.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: Where did that take you?
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: What what what level did you get to?
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I completed it within so whilst I was at at Rathbone, so I completed my charter wealth manager, so CISI, so level seven, so you do your level four first and level seven.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, within, as I say, three years of joining the industry, I was chartered and particularly at that firm.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if it was the same in every firm, but you needed to be chartered to have your own client book.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_03: So at that point then I was able to take on my own clients.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, love it.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: So you were at Wrathbones as an investment manager.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um you did a small stint there at Investtech as well.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: So you continued on your journey, um, and then you ended up at St.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_03: James's Place again in an investment manager role into like a head of head of development position as well, ops and development and that's where I eventually moved to, but I actually moved over as an investment manager into what is now SJP Discretionary Fund Management, so SJP DFM, which was at the time round Dartington.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_03: Um so I was again alongside partners out in the partnership, working with them and their clients, looking at investment portfolios and opportunity in a different way that sits alongside the SJP IMA.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: You might know a friend of mine, Sebastian DeRose.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: I do.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, from Bristol.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I know Seb quite quite well.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um he's now a partner at St.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: James's Place.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: We're good friends, yeah.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: He's loving it.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: We share a lot of things.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, brilliant.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's good.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're local, aren't you?
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um to Bristol.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um he's really into his art, so he does a lot of buying and selling of art and he's been doing a lot of networking around that.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: He has.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: I saw him popping up on um popping up on the socials quite a bit where he was kind of getting into video content and stuff.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: I've not seen him for a little while.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: I might have to give him a little probe and see what he's doing.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously, very busy.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_03: It is nearly tax year end.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_03: And he did a lot of work at the SJP Foundation and other things.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, that is another good thing about SJP, you know, as you were saying, a lot of us as partners have come from, whether it's within finance or within SJP, but from really varied backgrounds.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think there's really any two people you'll speak to that have come, have had the same journey.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_03: You know, they would have come from various different industries, which I think is great.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I love that as well.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I like about the academy.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because at any one time you've got people going through the academy that are all completely different backgrounds.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: I love it, and it complements each other.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_03: Definitely.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: So investment management, financial planning, kind of two different sides of the spectrum, do you think?
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: If you were to compare investment management with financial planning, let's start there.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: What's the difference?
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_03: So I I was thinking about this, and I think to keep it really simple for me, um, the role, what's the role of investment managers?
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_03: Two things really.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_03: It's portfolios, your focus is around a portfolio.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_03: So portfolio construction, so everything that comes with that, so asset allocation down to the stock selection, you know, meeting the various companies, fund managers, et cetera.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_03: But ultimately, your focus is on portfolio construction and performance of those portfolios.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_03: That's what you're judged on by your clients, by your firm.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_03: So effective, and you're obviously measure being measured against the benchmarks as well.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, and it's very reactive, you know, everything that's going on in the markets at the moment.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_03: If I was still an investment manager, I'd be very busy right now because actually, you know, volatility creates opportunity, and where we know that obviously if you're doing more of the trading style of investment management, that obviously, you know, you'd you'd have a lot to do.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_03: You'd need to be reactive and certainly communicating with your clients at the very least, if you're not taking action, because they'll be wanting to know what's happening.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_03: I think the difference if we then look at financial planning is that it's much more longer term and proactive.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_03: And the way I explain it to my clients is that investment management, if you think of a as of a financial plan or financial planning as a puzzle, and there's lots of different pieces, and and every puzzle for every person looks really different, but there'll be some similarities in that.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_03: One of those pieces of that puzzle is the investment element.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_03: So the way I explain it is that I used to be responsible for clients for that one piece of the puzzle, but now I'm responsible for putting the whole thing together and helping it all make sense and the different pieces of the puzzle to match.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_03: Now, the investment management element is really core and key to obviously outcomes and what we're looking to do, but actually more core is actually how we move through that journey and that plan and the behaviours and the thing, the actions we take or don't take, the decisions that the clients make or don't make or that we make together.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, I think it really it's that long-term bigger picture versus the it's not that you you just have a short-term view in investment.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: Management, but I think to really yeah to summarize it, you're you're much more hyper-focused on the word holistic gets thrown around quite a bit.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_03: I deliberately didn't use that one.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: But it is though, isn't it?
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I suppose with your background within well-being and you were entrepreneurial in that sense, and it's part of who you are as a person that you see things as a whole.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: And investment management is a piece of the puzzle, right?
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: A piece of the journey.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a valuable piece.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um do you feel like that valuable piece that you learned in the t in the decade that you spent in investment management, when you sit down with clients now in a financial planning capacity, does it add value?
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_03: Definitely.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it also brings, it gives me confidence in myself and what I'm doing with clients.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_03: Gives me confidence in the investment management team and my understanding of what they're doing and not doing and the information that they're they're providing.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that with clients, they're able to understand where I'm coming from, in that I'm coming from a basis where I used to be in that type of role.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_03: And so I get it.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, I definitely think for some of my clients that I don't know about you when you're having a conversation with your financial planner, some of my clients don't really want to talk about the investments.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_02: You don't really.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_03: No, that's not what we're talking about.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_03: We're talking about their life, their plans, their goals, how what we're doing is going to help them achieve those goals, what are the things that are going to get them there or hold them back?
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um, not many really want to go into, you know, what sectors are we invested in, the asset allocation, you know, even the performance numbers, which I would always share with clients as part of what we need to be able to do, but that will be a really small element of the conversation.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_03: But for those that want to go deeper, and some do, I have a handful of clients that really want and like the detail around it, then I really enjoy those conversations.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_03: It takes me back a bit.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, I just feel like I'm well equipped to have those.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: When I sit down with a financial planner, my my um where I sit on that call is one of reduction of worry and anxiety.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I'm there.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: I I I'm speaking to that person because I don't want to worry or be anxious about my future, where I'm going, how my business is doing, um you know, whether or not I've got enough life coverage if I died.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm 44 years old, you know, these things come at you like you wouldn't believe.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: Those, you know, you realize that, oh my god, I'm halfway through my life.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: And they start to come at you like you wouldn't believe.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: And and often it's just in my head.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: And as an entrepreneur, as somebody who's building a business, I I spend so much time in my business.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's like my life.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm a I get super super focused and super obsessed.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I can often put things to the side when it comes to finances, even though every day I'm speaking to financial planners, believe it or not.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm speaking to financial planners who've got financial planners.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, my friend Paul Bradley has got a financial planner at SJP who holds him accountable.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's really powerful to have that person as a coach, as a guide.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I love the way that you bring it into the well-being side as well, because it is a well-being proposition for me.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: Having that open, frank, and honest conversation about my future, putting on the table the things that I am worried about that I often feel silly that I can that because I feel like I should know it, because I speak to people like you, you know, every day.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's really important that I have that safe space to do it.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, the impact it has on my overall well-being and my anxiety levels is great.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: And knowing that I can pick up the phone and speak to somebody is super important.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that element of it where you are becoming um capitalistic is super important.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: And people need to understand that.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're an investment manager, you can be kind of pigeonhole, I guess, siloed in a in a specific area.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: When you're an investment manager, were you private client or were you um institutional institutional clients?
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: What were you?
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_03: Uh private clients.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: Private clients.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah, great.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: And were you working alongside financial planners at the time?
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_03: So there was a financial planning arm which I know has now grown.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously, the two firms I work for have merged, and actually I know they've also acquired a financial planning arm.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_03: And when you look at what's actually happening just industry-wide, financial planning is seen as much more of integral rather than this bolt-on or this, oh, actually they're going to need it because they've got a DV pension scheme and therefore we need to get a financial planner involved.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_03: You know, nowadays it is much more about right, what's the financial plan?
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_03: How do we slot in to make that work now?
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_03: How that's working culturally, and I'd imagine there's still an element of struggle around what takes priority.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but yeah, we worked alongside financial planners.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_03: I actually had a number of clients who had advisors outside of the firm, um, including SJP.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_03: So I remember a really um vivid meeting with some clients sat in my office at Rathbones with the SJP partner coming and sitting alongside.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's where it's really, you know, powerful and valuable for the clients because ultimately they want everyone to be on the same team, whether you're part of the same firm or not.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_03: It's their plan.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_03: So I feel really privileged when I'm working with my clients who most of them, most or all of their assets, you know, we're looking after.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_03: So that does simplify the relationship, but equally we'll have other um professionals involved.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_03: So it might be their accountants, it might be their lawyers.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_03: I work a lot with business owners.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, it is very rarely is am I the centre of their financial world actually, you know, I might orchestrate a lot of it, but I need other people around the table.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, sorry for interrupting the Financial Planner Life podcast.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you're enjoying it.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if you think that you would like to be a guest on the podcast, because you have a product, a service, or a business that you would like to promote, maybe you want to attract some new talent to your business.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: There is a link in the comments where you can actually apply to come on the Financial Planner Life podcast.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: You get that full end-to-end experience that you're so used to from the Financial Planner Life Studios.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: And if you feel like you've got a podcast that you'd like to start, or maybe a video project, again, click the link in the comments section and book a meeting, and let's discuss that project and get it going in 2026.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: Now, back to the show.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: Historically, you used to find I used to I own a recruitment business, Recruit UK, and I delved into the world of investment managers and financial planners, and often you'd get them at a locker end, you know, they would be kind of like, You're gonna take my client, or they're gonna take my client.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: They often didn't really want to work together.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I think over the last 10 years you see that more happening now.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, brewing dolphins and etc.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: They're you know they're combined.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's a it's like a family office type type vibe.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, when you look at somebody who's an investment manager and they're they're they're done with that as a career and they want to move, they go into financial planning.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel like you're the investment manager in the room and the financial planner?
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: Does that transfer across?
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: Do you or do you tap into the SJP expertise around investment management?
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, a hundred percent.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, I think what's really important for clients to understand is what your role is and what the role of SJP and the investment management team is as well.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, what you're uh responsible for, you know, I'm responsible and accountable to my clients, um, but equally they need to understand where the expertise is coming in.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_03: I think it shows real depth as well in terms of you know what we offer.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_03: So I think if I position myself as, yeah, I'm I'm both, I don't I feel like that would be a confusing for clients and also disingenuous because I'm not doing the investment management.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I sort of say to clients, you know, I'm this is what I'm doing.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sat around the table with you.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not sat behind the screen trading and monitoring markets, and that's what we need in investment management is somebody that is, you know, actually on it all day.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_03: Love it.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: In investment mass management, you just I'm gonna touch on this because uh the you know, as we speak right now, you know, there's a lot going on in Iran and everything, and it's changing the markets.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um reactive in investment management.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: What do you do as a financial planner in this situation to be proactive?
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so um I'll give you a perfect example.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_03: So last Monday, when everything, you know, everyone comes back in for the weekend that's all been kicking off.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um the investment management team actually joined the we have a weekly call, so an investment call.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um they actually joined that call, did a really good briefing around what they were looking at doing.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_03: They did some immediate work around the sectors, so really specific around each portfolio and fund, what what the sector exposure was, so that we as financial planners were able to look at that and say, okay, here's the reality of where, you know, the impacts might be.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um, they also drafted um a note that was that we were able to send to clients.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_03: I sent that out to clients that evening.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_03: So we have a great system through Salesforce where those notes are there, read already signed off, approved, compliance, um, so that you know, by six o'clock that evening, all my clients had a note around what SJP are doing.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um I didn't have any responses to that, right?
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_03: Which I thought, okay, have they actually received it?
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_03: Because nobody's come back and said um, and I checked with clients I then saw through the week, and um, all of them said they received it, and that it was great to see that we're and they weren't worried.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I think part of that is because the conversations I've had with them from the outset, they have confidence in me, confidence in the team, and by but by being proactive with the communication saying, look, we know this is happening, this feels big and maybe even uncomfortable, but we want to give you the confidence.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_03: We're working behind the scenes, and this is what it looks like.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: Brilliant.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: And that leads me in nicely because self-employed versus unemployed.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people who go self-employed as a financial planner, they're wearing multiple hats.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're a standalone financial planner, maybe you're directly authorized, maybe you're under a network, and someone hasn't, you know, the business itself hasn't got the ability to react quickly and get that information to you, into your sales force for you to be able to deliver it.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the things I definitely have learned to understand with St.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: James's place is just the level of skills and expertise in the wider business that you tap into that allows you as a partner to be able to focus on that client relationship and they're creating the content for you to quickly communicate so your client sees you as a finger on the pulse.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_03: And there's no way I would have got something out like that that day if it wasn't for having access to that information.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_03: I had a full day of meetings.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, I was at an accountant's office meeting a number of clients because they were having their financial year-end meetings and then coming to the next room to speak with me.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, I was reliant on that information to be able to then I I wanted to demonstrate to clients that, you know, one, I think the key thing is your money is safe and that we are constantly making decisions, and that doesn't always mean we're taking action, but that, you know, there are in terms of in your investment portfolio, but just giving them that information just it goes a long way, communication.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: Love it.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's going to lead us into self-employed and employed.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: But first off, really, what we want to understand is why financial planning?
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: What was that turning point where investment management was goodbye?
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: And you open the door to financial planning.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_03: So there was a bit of a bridge.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_03: So effectively, I moved from my investment management role within SJP into a leadership role.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_03: So I guess it comes back to the start when we talked about, you know, adaptable leadership was really core to me.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_03: And again, I guess that was recognised through what I was doing in terms of um, you know, would I like to take on a a sort of more broader role corporately, um, lead a team and lead development through what was the larger practices in the in SJP.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_03: So I thought that was a great opportunity for me, use my technical knowledge, but also get back to leadership, which I I love.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um and then obviously that gave me exposure to a number of different SJP practices and the way that they worked and what opportunity was there.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I felt like, okay, this might be something I really want to do, but when the timing's right, you know, and we can talk about when timing's right, which is different for everybody because there's lots of different factors, and um, and one of them has to be financial.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_03: You have to make a sort of call on when the right time financially is as well as as everything else.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_03: Equally, sometimes there's never a good time.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but during that period of time, we obviously then went went went through COVID.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I had a lot of again, you know, when it comes to timing, I'd had a lot of changes during that period of time.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_03: I was a single mum through COVID.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_03: I had quite a senior leadership role within SJP at that point.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_03: And so therefore, you know, you're managing all of that in lockdown on your own.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_03: And then you start to come out of that, and then you think, well, how's this all now going to work?
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we've been through this as a as a family.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_03: I'm now gonna need some more flexibility and choice around my life.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_03: It coincided with having um a back operation and a shoulder operation.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_03: I had a bike accident, and you know, exercise is great for you until you get injured.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and that just made me re-evaluate, really.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_03: And I think COVID made a lot of people re-evaluate, particularly as we started to come back into offices and life started to feel a bit different.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_03: So I then started to think, well, what are my choices actually?
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_03: And I guess that's the other thing I, you know, if you think about my journey, not that I did I sort of did it purposely at the time, but I created choice because there are different avenues I could take.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_03: So I approached SJP, I sat down and said, I think I want to be a partner, but I want to go and explore to make sure that I want to do it SJP.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_03: I know I want to set up my own business, I know I don't want to be an advisor, I know I want to create autonomy.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um, will you help me do that?
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_03: And they said, Yes, absolutely.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_03: So I resigned from my corporate role at SJP and I did exactly that.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_03: I looked at a number of different firms, um, networks, and I decided to go with SJP.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: Which That's good.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: So you did your due diligence on the outside as well as on the inside.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: So why why did you end up like I've got to ask you, you know, why why did you end up at SJP?
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: There's loads of great options out there.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_03: None of them match what I felt SJP would give me and my clients, and that is being authentic.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_03: And I say that to my clients as well, and particularly at the time when I moved into my role, when there was, you know, we started the journey for like the transformation that SJB SJP has been on in the last few years.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_03: And I was able to tell them, look, I've genuinely I've looked around, I've spoken to these different networks, I've looked at their investment propositions, I've looked at what the client journey is like, and I genuinely believe this is the right place for you as clients and the right place for me to be supported as your as your advisor.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so it's you know, investment proposition being a key one for me, and I guess that's probably with my background.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_03: I really did look into okay, well, what does that mean?
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_03: Because I'm the one that's got to sit around the table with the clients.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_03: I've got to understand that proposition, I've got to have confidence in it.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_03: And then beyond the actual investment proposition, it's everything else.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I just mentioned about the communication, the systems that we use.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_03: You're I still remember most of the trades I input, certainly at InvestTech and a lot of them at Rathbose until they got their new system, were on Excel spreadsheets.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was painful.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_03: You know, putting in a 300 client trade on Excel spreadsheet, but there's also room for human error, which isn't great.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, it's just for me, it was everything that came with it.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, fabulous.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: So St.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: James's Place, you can become a partner and the self-employed.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so you've been employed for quite some time, used to the salary.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: My whole life.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: Your whole life, yeah.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: Used to the salary, turning up, getting your you know, getting your paycheck at the end of the month.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um what was that transition then and like going into self-employed?
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: And when's the best time do you think to do it based on your experience?
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_03: So this doesn't mean I did it that well, but yeah, I would definitely say that having firstly having making sure you're financially secure.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_03: So thinking 12 months ahead at least and being able to say, okay, the first 12 months I'm going to be building my business.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not going to be really clear on, you know, I started with zero clients, zero cash flow.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_03: So you're effectively saying this is going to take time to build.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_03: We know it takes time to build.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_03: So you're going to need to have that financial security and a bit of a plan, like you said.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_03: I think the other side of it is knowing what your support network is.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_03: So your personal support network, whether that's at home, um, whether that's people around you that are going on a similar journey.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_03: So you mentioned Seb earlier.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_03: You know, Seb and I, it was the same month actually that we became partners.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_03: So we've both gone from an employee background in an investment space.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_03: So he was somebody that I could talk to about, you know, still do now, where they're at in their journey, what are the pain points, what are the good things.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_03: So finding the support network.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_03: And I guess the other area is just being having a plan, but not being so fixed on that plan.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_03: You know, there's a saying in the army, no plan survives contact with the enemy.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_03: So you have a plan and then you come under fire, and guess what?
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_03: It hits the fire.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_03: And it's just being able to say, I have a plan, but I'm willing to adapt it if things change.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_03: So I had a plan, and we we can talk about what that looks like sort of high level.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_03: And it definitely, by the end of the 12 months, didn't look like that plan at the start.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_03: Some of it did, but it's just, yeah.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_03: So I think having a plan, financial security, build your network.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I guess the one thing I would say about SJP, particularly with the academy, I didn't go through the academy because I was already fully qualified.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I did do part of the academy training to ensure that obviously I was um, you know, up to speed with everything moving back into working with with clients.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_03: There's some really good structure there, and there's some really good tools that you can use, even if even if you don't need them the whole time, just starting out with some of the tools that SJP will give you through that training just gives you a framework.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_03: And I think having a framework rather than, oh, I've got a blank sheet of paper, right?
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_03: Where do I go?
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_03: What do I do?
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_03: That that is scary.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_03: But having a framework and some structures and then working out your own operating system through that, which is what you do in your first 12 months really, then yeah, I think that will help.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love it.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: Having a blueprint absolutely calms those anxieties.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: And also as well, because you know that it's a tried and tested blueprint.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you turn to the left, turns to the right, and you just mentioned it, you found people in your tribe basically are on the same journey, right?
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: Some people at the beginning, you might have you know great conversations with partners that have been, you know, going for 10 years and they're super successful, right?
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: So as long as there's a blueprint, the good people at St.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: James's place are speaking to absolutely every single partner and they're working out what the best process is in the best 12 months or the best 24 months.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's why they built the academy.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the academy is built around that journey.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's important to know that there is a roadmap.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I think when you run your own partner practice and you can have a capital event at the end of it, and that roadmap and that journey and that blueprint can actually lead you to a capital event where you sell the business.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: It becomes even more kind of like, wow, there's there is an end goal here.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_03: The long-term value of what you're doing.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I think when you go through a process where it's been tried and tested, and you can go there for the very beginning and understand what the end is, you're just gonna be confident, right?
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's something that I would personally need if I was becoming a financial planner.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like I would take huge value in knowing that if I carry on that pathway, I'm gonna get to that end point.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: But let's just go back to that 12 months, because a lot of people freak out.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um when you say let's, you know, make sure financially you're covered, how many months?
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to get into the detail of your own personal finances and how much you needed, but let's say, for example, paying the bills, mortgages, all that kind of stuff.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: What's a realistic expectation of getting up to the levels of income required?
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: How many months would you say it is as opposed to actual figure?
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I guess it depends again on your financial circumstances as well.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so you know, I have children and they're expensive.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_03: Who knew?
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so yeah, it depends on on what that looks like.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_03: But I would say expect that for the twelve first 12 months that you're not going to have even you will generate income.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_03: You would like to think in your first 12 months you generate income.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I doubled, well, for the last three years, my income has basically as in my fee income has doubled each year.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_03: So you your first 12 months, you have to say, can I survive on what will be one inconsistent, maybe no income for the first three months?
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because ultimately you've got to go and build those clients.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_03: And it you don't just they don't just invest in the moment you meet them, you know.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_03: So there's always a lead time.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and depending on the complexity of that case, it might be six months.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_03: So it's just workout saying basically for the next year, if I didn't earn anything, would I be okay?
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_03: But hopefully in the next three to six months, I'll start getting some level of income.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_03: I would say only now, after three years or so, I've got, you know, obviously wouldn't you know, have a cash flow forecast for my business.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_03: I would say I'm now in a position where I can I have a pretty a much smoother 12 months, you know, much more consistent amount that will come into the, you know, and my I know my costs are covered and you know, a bit beyond.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_03: I think for the first 12 months, you might be paying out more than you're bringing in at times because you're investing in systems, you're investing in marketing, um, you know, the things you need to be doing in your first 12 months cost time and money.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of energy is spent on things that don't give you a direct return.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: Straight away.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: I've I've realised that.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the that's the point that you have to push through because um, you know, that's where people might fall off the horse a little bit and get one.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I've had moments going, what have I done?
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_03: You know, particularly in that first 12 to 24 months, what have I done?
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_03: I had this great salary, the benefits, and I didn't have to worry, it just came in at the end of each month.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you definitely have those moments.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_03: You know, Seb's had those moments.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_03: We've had those moments together, you know, and it's it's knowing that you're not alone.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_03: And actually, funny story, it was in a sauna, sounds very bad.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_03: David Lloyd at the weekend.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um, a fellow partner who's been running, I used to actually coach them in their business.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_03: So that and they've been running a really successful practice in the local area for over 10 years.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_03: And we were just chatting.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_03: I had to run out in the end, I was like, I've been in 22 minutes, I'm cooked, I can't keep talking, we have to do this over a coffee.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but it was interesting how his challenges are the same, just on a different scale.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_03: From a, you know, so when he was talking about cash flow and saying, you know, January's our worst month, for example.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_03: This is how much it costs us to run our business.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_03: And you're thinking, you're basically, you know, you're just taking it up a level in terms of the amount of cost that you have versus what you have coming in.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_03: And that's basically what running a business is.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_03: Cash is king.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so yeah.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but that's why it's super important to get perspective, isn't it?
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: When you speak to other people at different stages in their career, it does give perspective as a whole point of this podcast.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: I can have somebody as an administrator coming on talking about the challenges of being an administrator and the goals of wanting to become a power planner or something or an advisor in the future.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: And you've got, I've got some people on who does phenomenal work, you know, and you think, God, that must be a lot of pressure.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's not, it's just a different level of it.
• 44:18
  unknown: Yeah.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and just getting perspective from talking to these individuals, and that's really good.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: So look, you've had great success in three years running your own partner practice.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: What's it called again?
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_03: Wood Mitchell Financial Planning.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: Wood Mitchell Financial Planning.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: Some great stuff.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: So let's just look into that three-year journey.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: So what have you generated under management in that three years?
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_03: So it's less than 40 million, so a bit less than that.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um I would say the first year I had less than 50 clients.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_03: In the first year.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_00: So less than 50 in the first year.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's good.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_00: How many?
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_03: Again, I, you know, exact numbers, but we're talking 40.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_03: I m I must have generated maybe 40 new clients in that first year.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great first year.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_03: But then it's the again, the levels of clients and complexity of clients, because that definitely which we can talk about does I think change as you as you go on your journey.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um so yeah, the first year was very much, it's almost, yeah, you want to speak with everybody, work with everybody, and work out where really is my niche, I think is the thing for me.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_03: So I started out with four clear channels, if you like, that I was going to um to work on.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_03: That was uh women and military, which won't surprise you, um, sport and business owners.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_03: So I set out to look at well, how do I generate a network in those spaces and what where does my business growth come from?
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um, three years on my key focus area is business owners.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_03: And then it just so happens that the majority of my clients are women or come through the female in the relationship.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's again just a, you know, there is a gap as we know in terms of female financial advisors.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_03: Less than 20% of advisors in the UK are women.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: 16, 16%.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think 20% are SJP though, so they're doing well.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_03: Well, actually, we've just reached a thousand advisors, female advisors in SJP, which I think is brilliant.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_03: It's phenomenal.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, just around International Women's Day, which is fat while I was here in London yesterday.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_03: So there's definitely a gap there in, and we know this in terms of financial advice for women and financial advisors.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think hopefully I'm starting, I'm part of, you know, we all are, all of that thousand advisors and beyond, you know, the 16% in the UK, we're part of the solution.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and then business owners became a natural because it was a type of client really that I worked with as an investment manager, probably.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_03: So I felt really quite confident.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_03: Also, really enjoy working with, you mean they say that you work with people like you to a degree.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, they're often similar ages, they're growing, they might have young families, they've got aspirations for the next 20 years, they're going to have a capital event at some point, or they want a capital event.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um, things that are important to them in the future might not be that important now.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_03: So you're working with them to, you know, how many clients have I had that business owners that say, My business is my pension?
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I'm sure we've all heard.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_03: I've said it today.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: Pretty much.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_03: And it may well be, but it might not.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_03: And also there's things that we may need to be doing along the way to make sure that you are as efficient as possible.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_03: And also what I say to client is, you know, my job isn't to make uh to make you wealthy.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_03: My job is to make sure you don't run out of money.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_03: That's how I I talk to clients and say that, you know, I want you to be able to sleep at night.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_03: I don't want you to be worrying.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_03: That's my job.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_03: And it's that whole thing of yeah, just building that that relationship with them to be able to do that.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um when my financial advisor put the cash flow forecast in place and I could see how much money that I would have for the rest of my life if I lived to a hundred.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that was super interesting to me.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, oh God, I really do need to increase the amount I'm putting into my my pension, for example.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I need to look at areas to invest that money.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I can't just rely upon the fact that I'm gonna be Sam Oaks today when I'm 60, because it's unrealistic.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I need to start thinking about it.
• 48:06
  unknown: Yeah.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it really opened the open my mind to it.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_00: Especially because you you know, at the end of the day, we want to live a long, healthy life, don't we?
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you're saying that's the hope.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's the hope, yeah.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's exactly it.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_00: And if we do in the you know the ongoing development of um the health industry, you know, probably we are gonna live a very long and healthy life.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's the that's the odds.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_00: So um we need a bit of cash.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, we do.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_03: And we need a plan.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that that is the thing.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, so work so I guess going back to my plan, that plan of around those four areas, then really morphed into where do I really concentrate my time because that's what my business looks like.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_03: But I think what was key for me in that 12 months was building and I can put them on one hand, some key relationships with other professionals, some of them actually competitors, but also um accountants.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_03: So I have some really key relationships where literally, if there's any financial planning that they think of, they will say, just go have a conversation with Sam.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_03: And then those clients refer clients.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_03: So I would say I get three or four referrals a week.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_03: That's not to say they all become clients and they're all appropriate to become clients, but I that is how I've built my business.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_03: So going back to that 12 months where the income isn't high, actually, what is high is your opportunity to build.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_03: You've got to have a, you know, coming back to your point around the plan, but also as a business, you've got to think, as you say, if you're building something that's gonna build intrinsic value in it, and you're not employed, as in, you're not just getting a salary, you know that you put the work in now.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_03: Over the coming years, the relationships you've built will be key.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and that's really what I think you've got to focus on.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_03: You can't just focus on this next 12 months.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_00: That activity in the first 12 months in any job, I think, you start to reap the benefits of the relationship in year two and three.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_00: I found that massively.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's um it's that word of mouth part and the referral part, and they start to see you in building of the social proof of what you do.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then people build that confidence in you and they go, I remember that conversation.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_00: But as long as you're touching baseball time and you're adding value for people coming back to you, what's the one thing you would say to somebody within their first 12 months to focus their attention on?
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think it's introducers?
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think it's niching down on women?
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_03: That's a really difficult one.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_03: I would say firstly decide your niche.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_03: So work out where where your space is.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um I would say build your network, build your network and think long term.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_03: Think, you know, don't just think about this is business for today, you know, really think about what is coming next.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_03: But if there was one thing that I wish I'd doubled down on more, is definitely having the right systems in place.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_03: Because what you do have in that 12 months, you you don't have a lot of clients.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_03: We don't have annual reviews during that first 12 months, obviously.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and you're still building that client base.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_03: So you have time to really know your systems and your processes, and that gets harder when you get busier and you're running to keep up, and then you're saying, right, how so actually just being really clear on your client journey, what you want it to look like.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um, we had a really interesting um talk from Lynn Grobler on the board um at SJP yesterday, who leads the technology for the business, and she's talking about the integration of the different technology that's coming down the line and how we're in this great position as partners where we have access to this ecosystem, coming back to what's great about being part of SJP A network and not, you know, on your own, is that you can tap into this network that is going to help your efficiency, your productivity, your client journey.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so actually, if you're coming on board today, that ecosystem exists.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_03: There's lots of different options.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_03: Every meeting I go to I learn about a new piece of technology that I don't know about.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but try those things.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_03: So again, that's another, you know, trial and error.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_03: Try some things, go to some events.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_03: I I paid for a number of different networking memberships in my first 12 months.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't do it again because one, I didn't feel like I needed to, but two, I felt I've tried that, so now I'm moving on to that.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_03: So I think just trial and error and use the time, but use it wisely, obviously.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_00: But also make some mistakes along the way, like go and try things, take some risks and like get yourself out there.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm off to America tomorrow to go and pitch a podcast to a massive uh insurance broker.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm getting on a plane, I'm over to Miami, I'm pitching.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_03: Sounds awful.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but but like you know, people have been saying to me, you really want to do that?
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you should hyper focus on the I'm like, I'm going because I'm taking a risk.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what the hell's gonna happen.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'd rather go and not do it than than not than think, oh I wish I did that, I wish I had that opportunity.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sitting down with the president of Magellan, which are like a the third largest supermarketing organization out there that pumps billions into firms out there.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm thinking, I'm gonna have to do this, I'm gonna have to get out there and see if I can build a podcast in the world of USA.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_00: So take risks.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_00: One thing I definitely have learned when I got on that call with the guy, right?
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_00: Even though it was a Zoom call, I'd never felt an energy as big as them.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_00: Even with companies in the UK, they were bigger.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_00: How they communicated with me is completely different to how the UK communicates with me.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_00: Now we were like literally punching the air.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_00: You're not what Americans are like, they were genuinely like that.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_03: Love it.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_03: Fuck yeah, I love their energy.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone was like so up for it.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_03: So positive.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and for me, it was like, oh my god, I I could feel the energy.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it and to me, it was like I've got to go.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, take this risk, put yourself in uncomfortable positions, shoot high.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_00: Aim, aim high.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_00: 100% aim high.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_00: Don't you know, don't settle for less.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_00: Always aim higher than what you think you you should do.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_00: And you're gonna open way more doors by doing that.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_03: Well, there's an American, David Goggins, that you might have heard of.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_03: And he always talks about, and I say it to my daughter actually, because she's got my affliction where she loves endurance, running, trath on, etc.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_03: And it's your mind gives up at 40%.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and I think that's the same in everything.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_03: You you're telling yourself it's hard when you've got a lot left.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_03: And that's whether that's physically or in business.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's something to remember.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_00: You've got to go all in.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you get obsessed about running an ultra, I've done ultra.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_00: I've done 50 50 kilometers.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's an ultra, isn't it?
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I didn't do that, I didn't do that in a race, I just went out and did it because I wanted to do it.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I need to go and do an ultra.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_02: I've done one.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone was doing ultras.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I'm getting out and doing one.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um I just want to finish on something, which is um, what's your life like now, self-employed, running your own partner practice?
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_00: Articulate what that is like for you and how much it's changed from the employed world.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, interesting.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_03: So I was having this conversation with my again, my daughter in the car the other day, when she said, Mummy, you've been working all weekend.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_03: I said, Yeah, but remember the trade-off is that I was able to come and watch your cross country and I'm able to be there for things that I wouldn't be able to do if I, you know, take the holidays that I choose when I take my my breaks with the children.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um and I did actually sit down with them at the start of the year and say, between now and April, I'm going to be working six days a week.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_03: You need to be aware of that.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_03: That's just, you know, that's going to happen.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_03: But we've got some things we have planned in that that help us get there.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_03: So I guess the way I would sum it up is I have complete choice and freedom how I spent my time.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I say complete choice and freedom.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_03: Like I have two teenage kids that, you know, it doesn't matter where I am, there's a problem, right?
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_03: Getting calls last night when I'm in London and the train's cancel.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, what do you want me to do?
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, you're always on call as a mum, aren't you?
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um and a dad, of course, um, as a parent.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_03: But um, yeah, for me it is about I choose one thing I, and I guess maybe it comes from the military, but also I think, again, coming back to developing your own operating system, is I do have a structure.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_03: So I have a structure in terms of what days I tend to like to do my meetings, when I like to pencil in my business planning, when I'm doing my follow-up.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_03: So I do have a structure to my week.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I do have like a quarterly plan in terms of key rocks, in terms of what activity.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_03: So it might be client events, it might be key focus areas.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously, at the moment it's tax year end.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_03: And I did a key event around women in business, actually here in London.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and then, you know, it's all around protection in the next quarter, and then I'm doing a rugby event with a different set of clients.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_03: So I'll set these things out, but it's me that sits there and, you know, so I have complete autonomy around what my, you know, next year is going to look like.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um, day to day, that means I'm I'm, yes, I'm meeting clients and I'm doing the the preparation and the follow-up from that, a lot of cash flow reporting.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_03: I do it for all of my clients.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I'm also constantly looking at how my business is running.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_03: So I literally look at cash flow on a weekly and monthly and quarterly basis and obviously annually.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_03: I'm looking at um what key things I might need to be doing for my clients during that period of time.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um so I'm also then looking, well, where might the pinch points be?
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_03: So as I mentioned earlier, and I was talking to that other, you know, partner and client practice, there will be months that are great months and other months where they're not so great.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_03: So, what are you doing to build resilience in the business?
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_03: So you've constantly got this hat on of, yeah, you're a mum, you're a wife, you're an advisor, you're also a business owner.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_03: So you at no point can you really step, just take a sort of yeah, a sit backwards, really.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_03: The only time I do that is when I'm on holiday and I give myself those moments to go, you and actually lots of ideas come to me that I still think about business, but I'm not.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that's the real difference.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_03: You know, if you were thinking about self-employed versus business owner, you've got that control and flexibility, which for some might be really scary and exciting.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um for others, yeah, it just might be too much.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think prepping your family, partners, and hopefully with somebody that supports you as well at home.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's super my wife's so supportive of me and my business.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think that if I didn't have her and someone was challenging me all the time, I think I'd find it really difficult.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think that's a really, really important thing.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it definitely starts at home being a happy and successful business partner is is about great communication at home and support from your family and friends.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_00: You've also touched on the whole community aspect, whether that's being part of the SJ community of advisors, partners and um investment managers or experts within it.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great thing for you to tap into that creates uh an ecosystem and a um operating system that you know you can tap into as and when you need that expert support.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think for someone like you that's super, super important.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_00: And when you're on your own building your own business, like it's really hard to build that network.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like people just don't think about, oh, I can do that, I can do this.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it's hard to find people who tr you trust enough to have those conversations with that are genuinely interested in you and your goals of growing your business because they have a vested interest in you doing so.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's definitely something worth worth worth noting as well.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_00: But also what I picked up from you is it's living the life that you want to live, to work with the people that you want to work with in the environments and in the areas that interest you sport, wellness, fitness, investment management and bringing it into a well-being proposition.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_00: And when you tick all those boxes, life's all right, isn't it?
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's all right.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_03: You get to do, you know, I guess I didn't touch on, I get to do the things that I go to the gym every morning.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_03: That's important to me.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_03: You know, so being able to say what are the things that are important to me, being able to get up and go to the gym before I start work, being able to, as a user, have flexibility at where I'm working.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_03: Am I in an office today?
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_03: Am I out with a client?
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_03: Am I working from home?
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_03: That is all down to me.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_03: Do I need to finish early to go and watch my daughter's cross country or my son's rugby?
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_03: Or, you know, they're the things, okay, so it means I'm working this evening, but I've been there for those important moments, which in two or three years when my children have left home won't be there.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that's really the key thing that it's given me is yes, the business autonomy, but the overall autonomy in your life and your flexibility is yeah, I I just don't know where else I would have found that.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_00: I built a business of like 25 people in it, and I used to show up like I was an employee every single day because I felt like I had to.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_00: Now I'm in a world where if I'm tired, which I get tired, I have ADHD, I go crazy for like six hours, hyper focused, and I want to go to sleep.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_00: I want to go and lie on my sofa or I want to go for a walk.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like Which is human.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_00: And and actually it's re-energizing me when I do that.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas if you're an employed role, if you're you're around like business partners or whatever, and you've got this expectation you should be on it all the time.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_00: Not everybody is, right?
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_00: We're all so different.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_00: And building that system that we talked about, the operating system that supports you in every area and aspect of your life, I've seen the benefit within mine, without a shadow of a doubt.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_00: So Sam, I really appreciate your insight into your career journey within financial planning.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's going to help so many different people from different backgrounds, regardless of whether or not they're from the military investment management.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think they're going to learn a lot today about what you can and what you can and can't do within financial planning, but also how important it is to be in an environment that supports you to be the best version of yourself that you can possibly be and has that that proven blueprint operating system that you can adjust.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_03: I agree.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for time to cheers.