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HR 2: A Rainy Day at Camp · In the Locker Room presented by Neighborhood Ford Store (Pittsburgh Steelers)

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Speaker 2: Hass Is his hospitality and welcome back in the locker
0:48
Speaker 2: room from Saint Vincent College in the trop Max starts
0:51
Speaker 2: heading to his automobile for the drive to Canton, the
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Speaker 2: football mecca, right Suretott Pittsburgh.
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Speaker 3: Canton, Pittsburgh's the Pittstroke is the football town. But I
1:02
Speaker 3: guess the Hall of Fame is the mecca.
1:05
Speaker 4: It's got to be the mecca. So Wes Euler filling in,
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Speaker 4: Thank you Wes for jumping on.
1:10
Speaker 3: So I feel sorry for our listeners. They're about to
1:12
Speaker 3: get four straight hours a Euler.
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Speaker 4: That's way too much. Yuler, no no, I don't think
1:15
Speaker 4: it's enough.
1:15
Speaker 3: Even my wife would say that's way too much. Wes.
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Speaker 4: I don't think it's enough. Wes. So looking forward to
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Speaker 4: the drive coming up with Matt Williamson. So the Hall
1:22
Speaker 4: of Fame, the inductions and Max is going up for
1:27
Speaker 4: the part where they you know, the Roselle Award and
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Speaker 4: the different things that they that they hand out. But
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Speaker 4: you know, it got me thinking because I think about
1:34
Speaker 4: this every year with Cooperstown. So for those that don't know,
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Speaker 4: that's my hometown. That's where I grew up on where
1:39
Speaker 4: I went to high school, Cooperstown, New York. And of
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Speaker 4: course that's where the Baseball Hall of Fame is.
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Speaker 3: Is that, like, you graduated from Cooperstown High School. I
1:46
Speaker 3: graduated from Coopertow High schol'sretty cool.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, So we played our football games on Double Day
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Speaker 4: Field and our baseball games on Double Day Field. They
1:53
Speaker 4: we were the last class. They no longer play them there.
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Speaker 3: That's pretty cool. Yeah, they said, well, once this Robkin
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Speaker 3: guy gets out of here, we can't do this.
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Speaker 4: The field was like a parallelogram, so if you ran
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Speaker 4: around left end going away from the village of Cooperstown
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Speaker 4: and toward the toward the streets of Cooperstown, the not
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Speaker 4: the mean streets of Cooperstown, no mean streets up there.
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Speaker 4: You would angle away. So if you were fast, which
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Speaker 4: I wasn't, you could like run around left end and
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Speaker 4: just it just kind of angled away from the line
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Speaker 4: of scriptage so you could keep going. It didn't matter
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Speaker 4: to me. I wasn't fast. But the field was also
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Speaker 4: ninety seven and so if you ran around right end,
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Speaker 4: you just run out of bound.
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Speaker 3: You ran, you ran out of real estate.
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Speaker 4: And it was also ninety seven yards, And a couple
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Speaker 4: of times in my career, officials would once you crossed
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Speaker 4: over midfield, they would march it back three yards because
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Speaker 4: the field's only.
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Speaker 3: Ninety seven yards. Yeah, anyway, I like those quirky high
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Speaker 3: school Oh it's fun.
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Speaker 4: So I think about this a lot in terms of
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Speaker 4: the Hall of Fame, which is how long do you
2:56
Speaker 4: have to be great to get into the Baseball Hall
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Speaker 4: of Fame? So I always bring up the example of
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Speaker 4: Sandy Kofax, Right, So, Sandy Kofax's greatest left handed picture
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Speaker 4: of all time. It's like it's part of his name,
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Speaker 4: you know, Sandy Kovak's greatest picture left handed picture of
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Speaker 4: all time? And I'm not going to argue that hit
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Speaker 4: an incredible five year span and then quit. I think
3:17
Speaker 4: he was thirty when he had to quit, somewhere right
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Speaker 4: around there. But I always argue that what we he's
3:24
Speaker 4: he's stuck in time. We're just mentioning the Beatles, right,
3:27
Speaker 4: The Beatles were stuck in time.
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Speaker 1: Right.
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Speaker 4: So the Beatles their last album, they were still, you know,
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Speaker 4: somewhat groundbreaking on Abbey Road, which is the last album
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Speaker 4: they did. Let it Be was released afterwards, but abby
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Speaker 4: Road was the last album they did together. They had
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Speaker 4: this song Sweet in the Back and it was something
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Speaker 4: new and different, and you know, you could argue that
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Speaker 4: throughout the next four or five years they still would
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Speaker 4: have put out great albums. You know, maybe I'm amazed
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Speaker 4: by Paul McCartney imagined by John Lennon, all the songs
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Speaker 4: that George Harrison had built, all those So they would
4:00
Speaker 4: have made great albums, but they no longer would have
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Speaker 4: been groundbreaking, right, people would have what's going on with
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Speaker 4: the Beatles. It would have just been great music. It
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Speaker 4: would have So they were when they quit, it was
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Speaker 4: like almost like the perfect time. That was all the
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Speaker 4: hit And you could say the same thing about Sandy
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Speaker 4: Kofax because here's what you never saw, and I'll turn
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Speaker 4: this back to football in a moment. What you never
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Speaker 4: saw from Sandy Kofax.
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Speaker 3: Was the decline.
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Speaker 4: Right, he goes twelve and seven, and then then he
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Speaker 4: bounces back the next year and goes fourteen and six,
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Speaker 4: and then he goes you know, three and twelve with
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Speaker 4: a five forty six R. Then he gets released and
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Speaker 4: he decides his career is not over, so he signs
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Speaker 4: with an American league team, you know or whatever. Right,
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Speaker 4: you never saw that he stopped at his peak, and
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Speaker 4: it always drove me crazy that that was a good
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Speaker 4: enough reason for Sandy Kofax to be in the Hall
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Speaker 4: of Fame. And I get his peak was better than say,
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Speaker 4: Tony Aliva. Tony Aliva comes to mind, Dave Parker comes
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Speaker 4: to mind. Richie Dick Allen who went in finally last year.
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Speaker 4: I think he and Parker both went him last year.
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Speaker 4: You know, these guys finally getting in who had these
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Speaker 4: peak years and then Parker at his peak years interrupted
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Speaker 4: by injury. You could say the same thing with Rick
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Speaker 4: Tocket and hockey right reaches an Apex becomes that guy
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Speaker 4: and then loses time to injury Tony and Leva to
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Speaker 4: me was the most glaring omission. Did he get to
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Speaker 4: two thousand hits? No? He played ten years, was a
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Speaker 4: Rookie of the Year, I think, an All Star like
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Speaker 4: nine of the ten years, won three batting titles. How
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Speaker 4: great do you have to be? So now, I bring
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Speaker 4: this back to Luke Keighley, like, to me, this was
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Speaker 4: a guy okay, So it's a small matter of discrepancy,
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Speaker 4: but it's a window into a larger topic. How can
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Speaker 4: this guy not have gotten in the Hall of Fame sooner?
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Speaker 4: I think he only played seven years?
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Speaker 3: He played longer than seven, didn't he eight years for.
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Speaker 4: The Panthers, eight years, seven time All Pro, All prop
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Speaker 4: He was a first team All Pro five times, won
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Speaker 4: the Defensive Player of the Year, one the defensive Rookie
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Speaker 4: of the Year, and then quit at age twenty eight. Like,
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Speaker 4: you can't really get any more dominant than that.
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Speaker 3: When Patrick Willis did a very similar thing.
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Speaker 4: So how long do you have to be great for
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Speaker 4: to get into the Hall of Fame? And are you
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Speaker 4: better off being Are you better off being good for
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Speaker 4: fifteen years or great for eight years?
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Speaker 3: Lev Bell versus Frank Gore.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's good. That's a very good one off time.
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Speaker 3: Left Bell versus Lashawn McCoy. Lashawn McCoy never hit lev
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Speaker 3: Bell heights, but la Shaw McCoy was a very good
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Speaker 3: NFL running back for you know, close to a decade. Yeah,
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Speaker 3: Frank Gore is probably the better one there.
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Speaker 4: It's a really good to me, it's it's and the
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Speaker 4: I guess the answer is there is no answer.
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Speaker 3: Well, here's the answer. If you're a five time first
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Speaker 3: team All Pro, if they thought that five years of
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Speaker 3: your career you were the best at what you did
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Speaker 3: in the league, I think you should be in for
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Speaker 3: every sport. I think you should be in the Hall
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Speaker 3: of Fame. If it's two or three, that might not
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Speaker 3: quite be enough. You need you need the other end
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Speaker 3: of that of that curve. But if you are first
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Speaker 3: team All Pro for five, six, seven years, to me,
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Speaker 3: that is that's a Hall of Fame career.
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Speaker 4: There is no clear definition of how long you have
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Speaker 4: to be good enough for Max brought up at the
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Speaker 4: point and since we're having Hall of Fame discussions and
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Speaker 4: he's heading off to Campton, you know, uh so you know,
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Speaker 4: obviously we're talking about Luke Keegley here but what about
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Speaker 4: these guys that make the All Decade team. If your
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Speaker 4: first team All decade, I think that should be an
7:39
Speaker 4: automatic ticket to the Hall of Fame. I would agree.
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Speaker 3: You're talking like the NFL, like not your organization's All
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Speaker 3: decade team, right, the NFL All Decade?
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Speaker 4: Right? Yes, And maybe if you're on the second team,
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Speaker 4: you should be in as well. Probably, you know, I mean,
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Speaker 4: you're one of the best, you know what, forty five players.
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Speaker 3: Of that decade.
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Speaker 4: That's pretty incredible.
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Speaker 3: That is that is that absolutely is. I'm with you
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Speaker 3: on that, and there's you're right, there is no exact
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Speaker 3: science there, and those all decade teams sometimes they can
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Speaker 3: be a little difficult because what if you came into
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Speaker 3: the league in twenty and seventeen, right, you know, then
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Speaker 3: like then your career is kind.
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Speaker 4: Of twenty fifteen where you spend five exactly right, five
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Speaker 4: and exactly right. I'm just saying, if you're so, you're
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Speaker 4: not excluded if you're not on the All Decade team.
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Speaker 4: But if you are on the All Decade team, boy,
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Speaker 4: that's that's just got to carry a ton of weight.
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Speaker 4: I wonder.
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Speaker 3: All right, so let's look at the uh, let's look
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Speaker 3: at the NFL's twenty ten All Decade Team.
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Speaker 4: Okay.
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Speaker 3: Quarterbacks Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers neither are in the
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Speaker 3: Hall of Fame now, but they're both going to moonwalk
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Speaker 3: like Michael Jackson into Canton when their time comes. Running
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Speaker 3: Backs Adrian Peterson, Lashawan McCoy, Marshawn Lynch, and Frank Gore.
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Speaker 4: Hit me that again.
8:52
Speaker 3: Adrian Peterson, Lashawan McCoy, Marshawn Lynch, and Frank Gore. Adrian
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Speaker 3: Peterson might be the only one of those four to
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Speaker 3: get in. I think Frank Gore's got a shot. I
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Speaker 3: think Leshawn McCoy's in the hall are really good, but
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Speaker 3: I don't think he's going to get in. Adrian Peterson
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Speaker 3: will absolutely get in. He'll probably be a first ballot
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Speaker 3: guy next year. Wide receivers oh Antonio Brown, Larry Fitzgerald,
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Speaker 3: Calvin Johnson, Julio Jones. Behavioral aside for the one formulae
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Speaker 3: formerly of this parish, all four of those guys hall
9:24
Speaker 3: of Famers. I don't know if a B will ever
9:25
Speaker 3: get in because of the other stuff, but in terms
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Speaker 3: of what they did on the field, Fits and Calvin
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Speaker 3: are both in. Julio will go in. If Antonio Brown
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Speaker 3: was a model citizen, he would be going into Canton
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Speaker 3: very soon. Tight ends Gronk and Kelsey, Duh. Gronk's gonna
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Speaker 3: be a first ballot guy next year. Kelsey will be
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Speaker 3: about five years from now. They also have Darren Sprolls
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Speaker 3: as a flex. He's not going to Canton.
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Speaker 4: No, I don't think so.
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Speaker 3: Tackles, Joe Thomas already in. Joe Staley really good shot,
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Speaker 3: a Tyron Smith really good shot. Jason Peters, really good shot.
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Speaker 4: I agree, yep Guards Marshall.
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Speaker 3: Yonda, he's been a two time finalist, hasn't gotten in yet.
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Speaker 3: I bet you he will at some point. Zach Martin,
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Speaker 3: He's absolutely going to the Hall of Fame. Logan Mankins,
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Speaker 3: I don't know. Jarry Evans, he's been a three time
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Speaker 3: finalist to this point, might get in at some point.
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Speaker 3: Center Alex Mack and Marquise Pouncy. I think both of
10:18
Speaker 3: those guys. I think Pouncy has a shot. I think
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Speaker 3: Mack has a shot. It's tough at center though, it's
10:23
Speaker 3: real tough.
10:23
Speaker 4: It's real tough.
10:24
Speaker 3: So if you look at it from that standpoint, I
10:26
Speaker 3: think you and I would agree. The vast majority of
10:29
Speaker 3: those guys will be in the Hall of Fame.
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Speaker 4: Oh S Green would of course is an example for
10:32
Speaker 4: the Steelers, right, and they're sure, sure you should be
10:35
Speaker 4: in the Hall of Fame.
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Speaker 3: Like other than those, other than those running backs besides
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Speaker 3: Adrian Peterson. I think of the vast majority of those
10:42
Speaker 3: guys have a really good shot to get in. I
10:44
Speaker 3: don't think, don't. I don't think Darren Sproles is going.
10:46
Speaker 3: I don't think Marshawn Lynch is going. Frank Gore could,
10:49
Speaker 3: but that's that's pretty telling. Defense. JJ Watt, without a doubt.
10:54
Speaker 3: Two years, he's a first ballot guy. Julius Peppers, he's
10:56
Speaker 3: already in. Cam Jordan still playing. I think one more year,
11:00
Speaker 3: big year for Cam Jordan he might get in. And
11:02
Speaker 3: Kalais Campbell defensive tackles. Aaron Donald no brainer, although he
11:07
Speaker 3: might be resetting his five year o'clock here soon. Nadamakan sue,
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Speaker 3: I'm not sure. Man at his he's another one of those.
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Speaker 3: His height of his powers was unbelievable, but didn't have
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Speaker 3: the longevity. Fletcher Cox I think has a pretty good
11:20
Speaker 3: shot to get in. Geno Atkins, I don't know. He
11:23
Speaker 3: feels like a Hall of really good guy to me.
11:26
Speaker 3: Linebackers Patrick Willis and Luke Keigley already in. Von Miller
11:29
Speaker 3: going in first ballot, Khalil Mack will be in, Bobby
11:32
Speaker 3: Wagner will be in, Chandler Jones, I don't think so.
11:36
Speaker 3: Corners revis already in. Patrick Peterson, his goat formerly of
11:39
Speaker 3: this parish. He'll go in. Richard Sherman I think will
11:42
Speaker 3: absolutely be a Hall of Famer as well. Tyron Matthew.
11:46
Speaker 3: That's gonna be close. Chris Harris Junior, that's gonna be close.
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Speaker 3: Safeties Earl Thomas I think gets in. Eric Weddle, I
11:54
Speaker 3: don't know, Eric Berry, I don't know. So again, of those,
11:58
Speaker 3: then there's you know, a position extra, so it's more
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Speaker 3: like twenty four guys instead of twenty two guys. I
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Speaker 3: bet you fifteen of those twenty four get in. Sixteen
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Speaker 3: of those twenty four. So not every single one, but that's.
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Speaker 4: That's a good point.
12:11
Speaker 3: That's a pretty not every single one. Well, that's an
12:14
Speaker 3: interesting Uh. That's a kick returner. Was Devin Hester he
12:16
Speaker 3: is in. Kicker was justin Tucker. I think he'll go
12:20
Speaker 3: in eventually. I don't think he's gonna be like a
12:22
Speaker 3: right away guy. But I do think he'll like Adam
12:25
Speaker 3: VINTERI I think eventually he'll get in. That's interesting. It's
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Speaker 3: very interesting there, Rob King.
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Speaker 4: So I don't think it's it's than I thought.
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Speaker 3: I it's it's not unanimous across the board, because again,
12:36
Speaker 3: you know, Chandler Jones is not going to the Hall
12:38
Speaker 3: of Fame, Darren Sprolls is not going to the Hall
12:40
Speaker 3: of Fame, Marshawn Lynch. But I would say, well, I mean,
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Speaker 3: i'd say probably about seventy maybe seven out of those
12:47
Speaker 3: ten guys that we named go.
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Speaker 4: The other thing is, too, is how guys are valued
12:52
Speaker 4: at the time doesn't always transpire to later in their career.
12:56
Speaker 4: You know what when when histories are written, when stories
12:59
Speaker 4: are told, you know, some guys get elevated and some
13:03
Speaker 4: guys going to decline. I mean when you think about
13:06
Speaker 4: like so one of the great Pittsburgh writer, David McCullough,
13:10
Speaker 4: you know, he wrote books about Truman and Adams, and
13:15
Speaker 4: both those guys were regarded as Truman was regarded, I
13:18
Speaker 4: think it's pretty much a flat out bad president. And
13:20
Speaker 4: then McCullough writes a book about him and He's no
13:24
Speaker 4: longer considered a bad president. He's considered one of our
13:27
Speaker 4: better presidents, John Adams, you know, for you know, I
13:31
Speaker 4: go back to baseball for whatever reason. You know, Stan
13:34
Speaker 4: Musill and Ted Williams when they were contemporaries, who would
13:37
Speaker 4: you rather have? Who's a better player? Well then they
13:40
Speaker 4: get the All Century Team. Ted Williams is on it
13:42
Speaker 4: and Stan Musis has to be added on it. Yes,
13:45
Speaker 4: those seven batting titles.
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Speaker 3: Weren't enough, you know, you know a good example of
13:48
Speaker 3: this king with all that power. Yeah, the Shawshank Redemption
13:53
Speaker 3: universally revered as one of the great movies now Bombed
13:56
Speaker 3: in the box office, bombed bombed in the box office.
13:58
Speaker 3: Now you can't find list of best movies ever without
14:01
Speaker 3: that being in the top five or the top ten. Yeah,
14:03
Speaker 3: there's a couple of those, like Scarface bombed at the
14:05
Speaker 3: box office. It's pretty widely regarded like classic movie. It
14:10
Speaker 3: is you're you're right. It is funny how history changes.
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Speaker 4: History changes stuff. It changes the way people are perceived.
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Speaker 4: And you know, what what they did has already been done.
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Speaker 4: It's already been accomplished. They aren't adding to it. It
14:22
Speaker 4: is the history and the story that's adding or detracting
14:25
Speaker 4: from their legacy.
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Speaker 3: I think it goes I think you're right. I think
14:27
Speaker 3: it can go the opposite way too. We quite often
14:29
Speaker 3: focus on the the improved legacies after the fact, but
14:33
Speaker 3: it can go the other way around to look at
14:35
Speaker 3: somebody like uh, like Joe Paterno, who's whose legacy changed
14:40
Speaker 3: at the very very end, right, you know, I think
14:43
Speaker 3: there's probably less examples of that, but it certainly does
14:46
Speaker 3: work both ways.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think in I think it's I think football
14:50
Speaker 4: is different than I think baseball is. The is the
14:54
Speaker 4: pre eminent example of the sport in which, you know,
14:58
Speaker 4: looking at former players through the lens of today alters
15:03
Speaker 4: the way they are perceived, and to me a negative way.
15:06
Speaker 4: Like I you know, for years, I thought Dave Parker
15:10
Speaker 4: belonged to the Hall of Fame. Like I said, I
15:12
Speaker 4: thought Tony leave It was the number one guy who
15:13
Speaker 4: belonged to the Hall of Fame. But I thought Dave
15:15
Speaker 4: Parker was it was long overdue that he get into
15:17
Speaker 4: the Hall of Fame, much like I think I'd like
15:19
Speaker 4: to see Rick talkin in the Hall of Fame in
15:21
Speaker 4: the NHL. But you know, then people look, wow, he
15:25
Speaker 4: didn't have a great on base percentage. You think Chuck
15:28
Speaker 4: Tanner was going up there and telling them, hey, Dave
15:30
Speaker 4: work a walk. Sure, no, he wasn't taying work's a walk.
15:33
Speaker 4: Punish the baseball.
15:34
Speaker 3: That's like, if you look at it, if you look
15:36
Speaker 3: at the amount of turnovers that Franco Harris and Terry
15:39
Speaker 3: Bradshaw had, that's a great extent sense chills down your spine.
15:43
Speaker 3: You're like, how are the Steelers winning games when Franco
15:45
Speaker 3: was fumbling the ball, you know, twenty times a year.
15:48
Speaker 3: But it was just it was a different game back.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it was. Isn't Bradshaw's exact same amount
15:52
Speaker 4: of touchdowns as Intergy close?
15:54
Speaker 3: You know who is as Troy Aikman, I think has
15:56
Speaker 3: the exact amount or like one more touchdown than he
15:59
Speaker 3: threw interception, and he's a Hall of Fame.
16:00
Speaker 4: It was a different era and some of the old
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Speaker 4: some of the guys looking back, I think you're Hall
16:05
Speaker 4: of famers. I wouldn't know Bobby Lane stats off the
16:07
Speaker 4: top of my head, but there are Hall of famers
16:09
Speaker 4: who've who've thrown more interceptions and touchdowns.
16:11
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I'm sure there are. There absolutely are let's
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Speaker 3: see Keir Kinger one hundred and sixty five twelve years
16:19
Speaker 3: for Troy Aikman one hundred and sixty five touchdowns, oh,
16:24
Speaker 3: one hundred and forty one interceptions. So it wasn't quite
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Speaker 3: quite as close as I thought, but still pretty pretty
16:30
Speaker 3: spot on there. I mean, that's that's uh.
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Speaker 4: That doesn't get you a starting job.
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Speaker 3: That does not get you into the Hall of Fame,
16:37
Speaker 3: or a starting job that it is.
16:39
Speaker 4: But again, well, by the way to twelve to ten
16:42
Speaker 4: for Terry Bradshaw.
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Speaker 3: To twelve to two ten.
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Speaker 4: It was that last year in eighty three when he
16:47
Speaker 4: threw two touchdowns and no interceptions.
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Speaker 3: Could put him back in.
16:50
Speaker 4: It was two ten to ten, and they had that
16:52
Speaker 4: last year a lot of downs. I remember the eighty
16:55
Speaker 4: three Terry Bradshaw. You have don't remember that, but no,
16:58
Speaker 4: it is interesting. And then you know, you can't judge
17:00
Speaker 4: guys by the way the game was played back then.
17:03
Speaker 4: You just can't do it. You know.
17:05
Speaker 3: It's funny. Matt and I were having this conversation on
17:07
Speaker 3: the drive yesterday of what when do we get to
17:11
Speaker 3: a point? Because I told him I think we're getting
17:13
Speaker 3: close to this. It started with I asked him. We
17:15
Speaker 3: made a joke. I said, what do you consider when
17:17
Speaker 3: we say in the modern era, what do you mean
17:19
Speaker 3: as in the modern era? And then Matt was like, well,
17:22
Speaker 3: you know, for a while, I would consider that the
17:23
Speaker 3: Super Bowl era. But he's like, you bring up a
17:25
Speaker 3: good point. He's like, now we're getting to the point
17:27
Speaker 3: where I think we're another five ten years away as
17:31
Speaker 3: sports fans, as sports analysts, where you're just gonna have
17:34
Speaker 3: to make the twentieth century in the twenty first century
17:37
Speaker 3: kind of two separate entities. How much these games have changed,
17:41
Speaker 3: how much athletes have evolved, how much the leagues in
17:44
Speaker 3: the training and everything that goes with it. In another
17:47
Speaker 3: five ten years, I think, when we're talking all time
17:50
Speaker 3: greatness in sports, you're gonna have to start drawing a
17:52
Speaker 3: line in the sand of the twentieth century in the
17:54
Speaker 3: twenty first century because the games are just so vastly different.
17:57
Speaker 3: The leagues are so much bigger, right, I mean a
18:00
Speaker 3: lot of times, a lot of these greats that we
18:02
Speaker 3: talk about when they were playing in the NFL, there
18:04
Speaker 3: was what twenty teams in the league or twenty two
18:06
Speaker 3: teams in the league. A lot of these great hockey
18:08
Speaker 3: players back in the day, they were doing it in
18:10
Speaker 3: a twelve team league. Babe Ruth was doing it against
18:14
Speaker 3: an all white Major League Baseball, no minorities. Like I
18:18
Speaker 3: think we're starting to get it to a point here
18:20
Speaker 3: where even the eighties and the nineties, you watch it
18:23
Speaker 3: and it seems like a completely different time, completely different sport.
18:27
Speaker 3: I will say this, Maybe that's just the thirty five
18:29
Speaker 3: year old in me speaking.
18:30
Speaker 4: No, I think that there's I think it's a great discussion,
18:34
Speaker 4: and you know, let's pick it up after the break. Showy,
18:37
Speaker 4: Let's take a break now, because this we're gonna We're
18:40
Speaker 4: gonna sink into this. This is fun. He's Wes Euler
18:43
Speaker 4: filling in for Max Starks. I'm Rob King. You're in
18:45
Speaker 4: the locker room on the Steeler's Audio Network, and welcome
18:49
Speaker 4: back in the locker room with Wes Euler. I'm Rob King.
18:52
Speaker 4: Max Stark's on his way to Canton, Ohio to take
18:55
Speaker 4: part in the celebrations up there at the Hall of Fame.
18:59
Speaker 4: Is More. He's going in, not football players, Max's agent's
19:05
Speaker 4: father is going in as a producer. Nice produced for
19:09
Speaker 4: Pat summer All and John madd NFL films The Greatest
19:12
Speaker 4: the greatest. That's awesome broadcast team. Certainly an NFL history,
19:16
Speaker 4: in my opinion, you know, groundbreaking. So we're talking about
19:20
Speaker 4: when does the modern era of football begin? And you
19:24
Speaker 4: know when you think about the Super Bowl era. So
19:27
Speaker 4: I would make the argument that in hockey probably and
19:32
Speaker 4: in baseball, I think players the great players from way
19:37
Speaker 4: back when all of the great players pretty much would
19:40
Speaker 4: have been great players in any era. So did Babe
19:43
Speaker 4: Ruth face black players, no, Latin players, No? But he
19:50
Speaker 4: had an extraordinary skill set he did. I mean, he
19:52
Speaker 4: was a big man. And when you think about him
19:55
Speaker 4: hitting the first ball, you know, it's an old decrepit.
19:58
Speaker 4: Baby think the last home run he hit was the
20:01
Speaker 4: first out of Forbes Field. So I mean in Forbes
20:06
Speaker 4: Field at that time was big track twenty five years old,
20:09
Speaker 4: you know, and here he is hitting him out, and
20:12
Speaker 4: you know, Willie Stargel, for all his power, did it.
20:14
Speaker 4: I think eight times, seven or eight times over the
20:16
Speaker 4: course of his career. Baby Ruth played there like once
20:19
Speaker 4: and did it. You know, So what would he have
20:21
Speaker 4: done in a different area. You look at Ted Williams
20:23
Speaker 4: and Stan Musual who came in before Jackie Robinson broke
20:26
Speaker 4: the color barrier and what they're able to do and
20:29
Speaker 4: still maintain that greatness throughout that era. I think the
20:32
Speaker 4: great ones would have adapted, would have had those physical
20:35
Speaker 4: skills to adapt.
20:37
Speaker 3: I think it's I think especially in baseball, because baseball
20:40
Speaker 3: has changed the least of all the major sports.
20:42
Speaker 4: I think it's less true in basketball in particular. That's
20:47
Speaker 4: it's probably the least true in basketball, although I still think,
20:53
Speaker 4: you know, again, where would you consider the modern era.
20:56
Speaker 4: I still think a lot of those players from the sixties,
21:00
Speaker 4: Elgin Baylor, Jerry West, Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, and like.
21:06
Speaker 3: Bill, Bill Russell was the dominant center of his era.
21:10
Speaker 3: He'd be a small forward if he played now.
21:12
Speaker 4: But he would have found a way. I think most
21:16
Speaker 4: of those guys would have found a way to still
21:18
Speaker 4: be great players.
21:19
Speaker 3: They would have also been I think an important part
21:21
Speaker 3: of this conversation too, is always they would have benefited
21:24
Speaker 3: from the modern medicine, modern training, modern analytics, exactly like
21:28
Speaker 3: these athletes now do exactly, So I think that's important
21:31
Speaker 3: in this as well.
21:32
Speaker 4: Bill Russell played in the pivot, he played, he played
21:34
Speaker 4: down low. Well in today's day, somebody would have looked
21:37
Speaker 4: at him and said, you better learn how to guard
21:38
Speaker 4: in the wing. And you know what would have happened.
21:39
Speaker 4: He would have been able to guard in the wing right. Yes,
21:42
Speaker 4: what he would have been able to do offensively, I
21:43
Speaker 4: don't know, because he would have been asked to do
21:45
Speaker 4: different things. But I mean, I think these guys would
21:47
Speaker 4: have found a way football. It's it's tough when you
21:51
Speaker 4: you know where to draw the line because you think
21:53
Speaker 4: about so if you go back, when you think about
21:56
Speaker 4: this Super Bowl era beginning with the Green Bay pack
22:00
Speaker 4: Is winning the first two Super Bowls, you know Fuzzy Thurston.
22:03
Speaker 4: I believe he's in the Hall of Fame as a
22:05
Speaker 4: guard with that name, he should six one two fifty. Well,
22:10
Speaker 4: if Fuzzy leads that vaunted Packer sweep around right end
22:14
Speaker 4: and runs into TJ. Watt, who's his size, maybe a
22:17
Speaker 4: little bit bigger, what's gonna happen to Fuzzy?
22:20
Speaker 3: Sure, you know, so, Fuzzy's gonna end up on his backside.
22:23
Speaker 4: And even and that's okay, that's fifty years later. What
22:27
Speaker 4: about if you just go fifteen years later or twelve
22:32
Speaker 4: years later, he's running into Lawrence Taylor, I still think
22:35
Speaker 4: he's having trouble having success. It's just the sheer size
22:39
Speaker 4: of the guys. And I think some of the people
22:42
Speaker 4: would argue back in the fifties, and I'm sure that
22:44
Speaker 4: there are exceptions, and the fifties, those guys went both ways.
22:49
Speaker 4: You can't carry You couldn't be six four, three hundred
22:54
Speaker 4: and thirty pounds and play both ways, play naps a game,
22:57
Speaker 4: no way, not a chanchance. No, you just wouldn't be fit. Now,
23:00
Speaker 4: there's probably exceptions of guys that could, right, just like
23:04
Speaker 4: I think there's exceptions of guys who would who would
23:07
Speaker 4: play in this era and they'd gain weight and they
23:10
Speaker 4: would still be effective because they were extraordinary athletes. But
23:13
Speaker 4: I just think there are fewer and I think the
23:15
Speaker 4: sheer size. You know, if you're a six to one guard, right, well,
23:20
Speaker 4: now you have to change positions because guards aren't six
23:23
Speaker 4: to one anymore. Correct, there's six four, there's six'. Five,
23:26
Speaker 4: Correct they're just, massive larger human beings like.
23:29
Speaker 3: You probably you'd probably be too small to play center
23:31
Speaker 3: at six to.
23:32
Speaker 4: ONE i mean all, right for all the training you would.
23:35
Speaker 4: Do but again we are extrapolating As Bill russell changing.
23:38
Speaker 4: Positions but you, Know Jerry west wouldn't change. Positions you,
23:42
Speaker 4: Know Oscar robertson wouldn't change. Positions he changed what he's
23:45
Speaker 4: able to, do but he wouldn't change. POSITIONS i think
23:48
Speaker 4: it's difficult in football because just the size of guys
23:52
Speaker 4: his ser, faster. Stronger it's just.
23:56
Speaker 3: And what's wild to me is how do we project
23:58
Speaker 3: what does that look like thirty years from?
23:59
Speaker 4: Now, yeah, bigger, faster stronger in his sport that's dominated by, bigger, faster, stronger,
24:04
Speaker 4: absolutely which is Not it's true to some degree in.
24:08
Speaker 4: Basketball it's probably true to a little lesser degree in
24:11
Speaker 4: baseball and, hockey which MAKES i think those SPORTS i
24:15
Speaker 4: THINK i have a hard time. Believing, gordi how wouldn't
24:19
Speaker 4: still have found a way to be a great?
24:20
Speaker 3: PLAYER i, mean well, again if IF i think you're absolutely,
24:24
Speaker 3: right because they would have adapted to the modern you, know.
24:27
Speaker 4: There's there's So, gordi how was fifty two in his last?
24:33
Speaker 4: Year fifty one in the Fifty.
24:35
Speaker 3: YEAH i promise you. This if he played in the
24:36
Speaker 3: twenty first, century he wouldn't be playing in THE nhl
24:38
Speaker 3: into his.
24:38
Speaker 4: Fifties but he scored fifteen? Goals, Sure, okay so what
24:42
Speaker 4: would he have done at thirty, two you, know, right
24:45
Speaker 4: so with the more modern because it was a because
24:48
Speaker 4: remember by that, TIME i Believe mario And Wayne gretzky
24:51
Speaker 4: were Certainly Wayne gretzky was already in the. LEAGUE i
24:53
Speaker 4: don't know If. MARIO i don't Think mario was. ROUND
24:56
Speaker 4: i think it was in that little in between. PERIOD
24:57
Speaker 4: i would have to double. Check but you, know he's
25:01
Speaker 4: so the era had, changed, Right Wayne gretzky starts a
25:04
Speaker 4: new era of. Hockey but or Did bobby are starting?
25:07
Speaker 3: Hockey? WELL i, MEAN i think both of those guys
25:09
Speaker 3: did in a. Way but you, know like the Old
25:10
Speaker 3: lemeux adage where he would joke that the only thing
25:13
Speaker 3: he did to get ready for training camp was he
25:15
Speaker 3: stopped Ordering french fries with his club sandwich at the golf.
25:18
Speaker 3: Course nowadays that at if If Josh allen had that,
25:24
Speaker 3: attitude Or Patrick mahomes had that, attitude Or connor McDavid
25:28
Speaker 3: or Shohe O tawny Or Lebron, James they're they're bombing
25:33
Speaker 3: out of the league in a couple of. Years like
25:34
Speaker 3: that's just not going to cut it. Today that THAT'S
25:37
Speaker 3: i think the biggest when you try to, see there's your.
25:40
Speaker 4: EXCEPTION i Think mary would only score one hundred and.
25:41
Speaker 3: Fifty there's your there's your, uh there's there's WHERE i
25:45
Speaker 3: feel like WHEN i was talking about where do you
25:47
Speaker 3: draw that proverbial line in the sand of modern era
25:49
Speaker 3: to kind of old? School for, ME i think it's
25:52
Speaker 3: AND i don't know exactly when we'd have to take
25:54
Speaker 3: the time and effort and research to pinpoint, it but
25:57
Speaker 3: it's when that kind of, stuff it's When casey Hamp
26:00
Speaker 3: and couldn't show up and spend a week getting into
26:02
Speaker 3: shape at training, camp those kind of old by gone
26:06
Speaker 3: that would never cut it. TODAY i don't care how
26:08
Speaker 3: talented and how good you. Are you couldn't be what
26:12
Speaker 3: was his, name the quarterback of The Kansas City, Chiefs
26:14
Speaker 3: Dawson Len dawson smoking cigarettes at, Halftime LIKE i don't
26:18
Speaker 3: care how great of an athlete you. Are in twenty twenty,
26:21
Speaker 3: six that ain't flying for your Former. Steelers you're bombing
26:25
Speaker 3: out of the. League you show up the training camp
26:27
Speaker 3: and all you've been doing is golfing and smoking, cigarettes
26:29
Speaker 3: and you're out of. Shape you're bombing out of the
26:31
Speaker 3: league in the modern.
26:32
Speaker 4: Ad, okay SO i guess the question, is how are
26:34
Speaker 4: we are we defining the modern? Era as working? Out
26:37
Speaker 4: we are we defining the modern era of who could
26:40
Speaker 4: have played in the old times and still excelled in? Today,
26:43
Speaker 4: see that's WHEN i think about different. ERAS i, think,
26:45
Speaker 4: okay who could have still? Excelled AND i think it
26:48
Speaker 4: becomes harder and. Harder but BECAUSE i think there are
26:54
Speaker 4: more and, more there's more, emphasis there's more people playing,
26:56
Speaker 4: sports there's more. People, again some people would say sometimes
26:59
Speaker 4: this is to the Day triman of the athlete playing
27:02
Speaker 4: a single sport and concentrating on that single. Sport, okay
27:05
Speaker 4: so let's Give babe ruth at you, know, again he
27:10
Speaker 4: was an extraordinarily extraordinary sized. Man he was six to
27:13
Speaker 4: two hundred when he broke. In he wasn't two forty
27:16
Speaker 4: until you, know they started shooting the, pictures and he's,
27:18
Speaker 4: correct and, he's you, know pigeon toed running around the.
27:20
Speaker 4: Bases even that's a big. Man that's a big man
27:23
Speaker 4: in today's baseball. Game six to two, hundred rock solid. Muscle,
27:27
Speaker 4: okay so now let's give him a let's give him
27:29
Speaker 4: a weight. Regiment he's looking Like Mike. Trout, Okay so you,
27:34
Speaker 4: know that's. All that's a guy nutrition and. All that's
27:36
Speaker 4: a guy WHO i think makes. It there are probably,
27:39
Speaker 4: guys AND i would have TO i don't know the
27:42
Speaker 4: weight and size Of Big Daddy. Liscom you know you
27:46
Speaker 4: put him through the. Paces is he now a three
27:48
Speaker 4: hundred and fifteen pound defensive. TACKLE i don't know about
27:52
Speaker 4: him in, particular But i'll bet there are guys that
27:54
Speaker 4: if you gave, them they were they were such great
27:57
Speaker 4: athletes that if you gave The Ali mattson to, use
28:01
Speaker 4: another Guy Jim, brown if you gave them today's workout,
28:05
Speaker 4: regiments oh they're gonna be great players. Today, Absolutely BUT
28:08
Speaker 4: i think they're the.
28:09
Speaker 3: Exceptions they're the exceptions because, like who Was Fuzzy, wuzzy
28:12
Speaker 3: the six foot one. Guy could you imagine him lining
28:15
Speaker 3: up across From Aaron donald at six to one? Whatever
28:17
Speaker 3: he was no, chance no Chance Aaron donald's gonna eat his.
28:20
Speaker 4: Lunch, now those guys, out those guys would also say,
28:23
Speaker 4: quicker better. Endurance you, KNOW i TALKED i heard some
28:27
Speaker 4: of the Seventies steelers guys talking about that quicker and
28:31
Speaker 4: just about the line, play because that's where that's where
28:33
Speaker 4: it's really. Glaring like you could make. Them, certainly make
28:37
Speaker 4: the case of those skilled. Guys, Okay Terry brawnshaw had a,
28:40
Speaker 4: rocket would they he would grow up in a different
28:42
Speaker 4: era whereas you, know more dink and dunk, today and
28:45
Speaker 4: you know he'd throw fewer interceptions and he'd be. Fine
28:48
Speaker 4: he'd be. Great Lyn swan would be. Great John starrith
28:51
Speaker 4: would be. Great Franco harris would be. Great there's different you,
28:55
Speaker 4: know these guys would be able to. Adjust it's the
28:57
Speaker 4: line play to, me and then some of the speed
29:00
Speaker 4: on the. Outside you do wonder about the line the sheer. Side,
29:03
Speaker 4: well you know, again some of those guys were conditioned
29:07
Speaker 4: to move. Quicker if you were a, big bulky, guy
29:10
Speaker 4: you couldn't and you couldn't, move you couldn't play For Vince,
29:14
Speaker 4: lombardi you couldn't play For Chuck. Knowle Chuck nole was
29:17
Speaker 4: looking for quicker and. Better and think about how the
29:20
Speaker 4: adjustments of the game have occurred now, right everybody wants
29:24
Speaker 4: swifter guys on defense for sub package. Football so now
29:29
Speaker 4: that you're seeing lighter, guys, okay so what does a
29:31
Speaker 4: team like The ravens? Do, okay, well you want to be,
29:34
Speaker 4: lighter good good luck you know when we Hammered Dereck
29:37
Speaker 4: henry at you thirty, times or when this cheers Hammered
29:41
Speaker 4: Jerome bettis at you thirty times a game and you're.
29:43
Speaker 4: Bumming now you're, like, Hey i'm supposed to be A
29:47
Speaker 4: i'm a six one two and twenty five pounds inside
29:49
Speaker 4: linebacker trying to chase down you, know swing backs out
29:53
Speaker 4: of the backfield and maybe run with a slot. Receiver
29:55
Speaker 4: NOW i Got jerome bettets in my face thirty times a.
29:58
Speaker 3: Game that's The, hey that's. Life THE Afc. North you're
30:01
Speaker 3: going to be In cincinnati one week against Against chase And,
30:04
Speaker 3: higgins and you're going to be Hosting Derek henry And.
30:07
Speaker 4: Lamar it's the most fascinating division in. Football for that,
30:10
Speaker 4: reason you have to be so adjustable to be able
30:14
Speaker 4: to go from one to the, other so. Adjustable it
30:16
Speaker 4: really is totally. Different IT'S i mean, football.
30:18
Speaker 3: It's, uh you, know it's it's playing against a big
30:21
Speaker 3: twelve or an acc spread attack one week and then
30:24
Speaker 3: a big ten ground and pound the. Next it's it's
30:27
Speaker 3: it's a vastly different. Style and you know what they,
30:29
Speaker 3: Say kinger styles make.
30:30
Speaker 4: Fights it. Does, wesley my friend thank. You thanks for
30:34
Speaker 4: filling in For. Max i'm off my Friend max AND
30:37
Speaker 4: i will be back in the locker room. Tomorrow, wes
30:40
Speaker 4: you're carrying on with the drive and other things here
30:42
Speaker 4: on The Steelers Audio. Network so. Uh Brian lamartine And
30:46
Speaker 4: Justin miller back in our studio For West. Either For Max,
30:49
Speaker 4: Starks I'm Rob. King we thank you for being with
30:51
Speaker 4: us in the locker room here on The Steelers Audio.
30:53
Speaker 4: Network