Latest / Voices of Otolaryngology / Why History Matters: Archives, Identity, and Innovation in Otolaryngology

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Why History Matters: Archives, Identity, and Innovation in Otolaryngology · Voices of Otolaryngology

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Welcome to the Voices of Otolaryngology podcast series, where we spotlight
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diverse perspectives and insights within the field of otolaryngology.
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I'm your host, Rahul Shah.
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Let's jump into it.
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Welcome to the voices of Otolaryngology.
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I'm so happy and lucky and blessed today to have my new friend,
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Doctor James Kearney.
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Doctor. Hear you.
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Thank you for joining us.
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Thanks so much Rahul. It's an honor to be here.
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And I think you have a fleece on.
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I saw U Penn there.
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Tell us a little bit about where you are,
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where you're affiliated so we can get to know you.
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Sure.
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So I am faculty at the University of Pennsylvania.
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I practice at the nation's oldest hospital,
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Pennsylvania Hospital, which is part of the Penn Health System.
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I've been with Penn for 30 years now, and I love it here.
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I am a comprehensive otolaryngologist, and
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I am also
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the vice chair of education for the department.
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I have a passion for education in addition to my passion for history.
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And that's what we're going to be talking about today.
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How looking back to history can drive us forwards.
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I called you a new friend.
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Certainly I knew of you.
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And when I rotated, there is a med student.
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But you've been very welcoming to me. Thank you.
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You gave me a tour of the nation's oldest hospital.
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Which hospital is that?
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And I bet you far members reached out.
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You'd walk them around. You're so proud of that hospital.
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Could you tell us a little bit about the nation's oldest hospital?
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Sure.
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So Pennsylvania Hospital is the nation's oldest
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hospital, founded in 1751 by Benjamin Franklin.
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So Benjamin Rush, the father of American medicine,
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was also one of our our founders.
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It's a terrific place.
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The original hospital is still standing.
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The hospital is going to open itself
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for the 250th anniversary of the country, starting in April.
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We actually have a museum in the hospital.
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So anybody who's coming to Philadelphia,
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I highly encourage you to come in and see Pennsylvania Hospital.
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We have the
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original surgical amphitheater, which is fascinating to see as surgeons.
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There's a large gallery where, back in the day,
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you could pay your fee and come in and watch surgery happen.
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Things are a little different nowadays, but, it's fascinating to see.
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Two highlights.
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When Doctor Kearney, showed me around, was in the amphitheater.
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We went all the way up to the top, and the view's amazing.
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And the lighting is superb.
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You could certainly understand how is great for surgical education.
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Can you tell them about my favorite part where I think you're an intern?
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There you get your name forever memorialized.
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And some of the names, they're a pretty neat.
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Yeah.
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So every intern who has trained at Pennsylvania Hospital
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has a brass plaque on a wall going all the way back to 1751.
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And it's a fascinating way of looking at the,
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the journey of different waves of immigration coming into the United States.
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You see, the names change from all Anglo type names to
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you see the different waves of European immigration, and then it opens
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up to the whole world and the last 50 years or so.
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So it's just, a great tribute to all those who have rotated here,
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and it's just a, a great visual to see how many different physicians
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we trained over the years.
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I've always loved the rich history of medicine,
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let alone surgery and definitely otolaryngology and Doctor
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Kearney you've really amplified that for me in my first role.
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Can you explain how you serve the Academy as a volunteer leader?
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Maybe for those members
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who don't know your capacity over the History and Archives Committee?
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So I'm the chair of the History and Archives Committee, and our,
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mission for the
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Academy is to make sure that we are doing our very best to preserve the history
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of our great society, through publication and, through encouraging research.
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We also are the archives portion of things
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we want to make sure that the, the artifacts that are associated with
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our specialty are preserved and also available for the membership.
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Yeah.
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You, visited us here at the headquarters and spent considerable time
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on the fifth floor of 1650 Diagonal Road, which is our museum.
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Take a couple of minutes and talk about that experience.
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What you saw there.
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Maybe some of the interesting stuff I can remind you.
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We had Chevalier Jackson's desk, white gloves, his wallet.
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We had a lot of books.
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Please, just reflect on anything and and tell the story.
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Jim, let people know what's up here.
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And and you and I had so much fun looking through some of the stuff.
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You know, I.
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I will say that,
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you know, I was always fascinated by the fact that we had these archives.
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And in my role as the chair of the committee,
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I thought was really important to come and see.
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The item that is, I think probably our crown
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jewel is Chevalier Jackson's desk.
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It's a beautiful desk in and of itself, but,
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to actually be able to put your hand on the wood that this, individual
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who is such a giant in our field actually worked at that desk.
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That was very moving to me.
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You and I took a photo of that there, and that's, something that gives me joy
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to look back on that photo.
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And tell us about it.
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You used a word, but I want you to correct yourself.
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You said he's a giant of our field, but was he a giant?
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His desk.
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I don't know if I could get my knees under it.
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He he was a, a man
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of relatively short stature, but, but, but a giant in so many other ways,
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really a someone who was a phenomenal artist, first of all.
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So you know, someone who could illustrate his own medical work that he did
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and somebody who also had that kind of tinkerers aspect to him.
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He worked with the local silversmith in Philadelphia
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to create his own instruments.
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So he really invented Bronchoesophagology.
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In addition to being so proficient in it.
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Then we found help me.
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You said that he would have for his light source,
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or he would have a portable, contraption.
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Tell me, remind me. And we have that in the academy
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where his residents would have to carry it around.
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so we still have the the very old battery cells
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that were used to power the the light sources that were used.
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And it's they're incredibly bulky.
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You know, when nowadays you just take a little,
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battery operated light source, tuck it into your pocket.
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Residents were literally lugging around, you know,
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things were close to 100 pounds in weight with all the, the batteries
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in order to do this type of work.
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It's fascinating.
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When you see the photos of Jackson, there is a designated head holder
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and all that person did for
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the day was to hold the patient's head, as Doctor Jackson did his endoscopy.
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Wow, wow.
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We've all pulled hook or held hook.
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I guess you would also hold head head in that time.
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Any other displays that you remember?
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And I don't mean to test your memory at all.
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I love the Women in Otolaryngology section.
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I love the books that we have up here,
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and some of the hands on memorabilia and anything else that stuck out to you?
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I don't mean to put you on the spot.
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So the artwork that the Academy has is really quite impressive.
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There's a beautiful portrait of Politzer.
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And, you know, some of the drawings done by Jackson himself.
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A lot of them are, chalk on black paper,
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and they're just esthetically beautiful to behold.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Where does the passion for history come from?
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I think you've had this for decades. Why?
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I can't really tell you
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about who I remember being back in high school.
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I went to a Jesuit high school, Saint Joe's Prep, of which I'm very proud.
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Yes. vividly remember my freshman
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Jesuit high school history teacher
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telling me that, those who are unaware of the past
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are doomed to, you know, make the same mistakes going forward.
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So, you know, when you look at the evolution of things,
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it's really interesting to see the things that fail, the things that didn't work.
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You know, we can only hear about the successes,
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but it's really interesting to see the, the failures along the way and you realize
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why certain things died out and why other things succeeded.
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So I think it just helps to, give you a sense of where we've been.
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Yeah.
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Any time new innovations come out, I'm always a bit circumspect, knowing that,
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you know, when you look at the life
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cycle of these things, not everything is going to to work.
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And you just want to be careful what you're applying to your patient.
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one thing that's excited me inspired me is you firmly believe.
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And when I toured Pennsylvania Hospital with you, you shared this belief
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you like history to be living and touching.
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It shouldn't be in the fifth floor here.
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It shouldn't be hidden away.
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And we'll talk about Tuesday morning at the annual meeting
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where I attended an amazing session, the paper competition.
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But talk to you about the traveling museum and some ways that you are trying
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to get the history of our specialty out to our members.
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Sure.
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So we have this terrific museum at our academy headquarters,
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but I would estimate that probably less than 1% of all academy members
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will actually walk through the doors and be able to experience that museum.
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So, so many of our members attend the annual meeting.
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The idea and this, you and I chatted about this and,
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you know, you were the one
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who suggested the traveling museum, which I thought was a fabulous idea.
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We may have even used ChatGPT.
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Or perhaps Claude, gave us some,
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suggestions in terms of ways of getting it out to the membership.
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But what we want to do is to take some of our treasures
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and bring them to the annual meetings so that people can look at them.
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And I'd love for them to be able to actually touch them as much as they can
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without, you know, creating damage to the, the artifacts.
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But, you know, these are things that should not be
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just sitting in a room that no one gets to look at them.
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If we have these things, then we should make them available to our members.
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And, you know, these are a part of our collective heritage.
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Very well said.
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I was thrilled, with the Chevalier Jackson Traveling Museum this year,
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and the location was intentionally right on the path.
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And I saw luminaries, I saw medical students,
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I saw international members congregating and discussing it.
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I'm sure you saw it as well.
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Wasn’t that awesome? That's what we want.
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It was.
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And I we got a lot of very positive feedback.
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It brought people joy and pride in our specialty.
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And anytime you can bring those two things to people, it's a good day.
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And you know how I think, Jim, I'm always going to ask you what's next?
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So that was Indianapolis, and I know you and your committee
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are thinking about the traveling museum for Los Angeles.
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I'm not going to hold you to it.
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Only about 15,000 people will hear what you're thinking, but.
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Well, what are you thinking?
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You and I had some really, out there ideas, but.
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But what are you thinking for LA?
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And I can tell you some of our out's out there. Ideas?
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Sure.
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So because of the location of the House Ear Group,
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which was so, monumentally important in the development of the cochlear
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implant and elevating otology, we want to make an otologic focus
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for our traveling museum in Los Angeles.
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And we are reaching out to different,
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groups around the country that have historical artifacts.
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So not just our own academy artifacts, but if we can get, items
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that are temporarily loaned to us from other places, we're going to do that.
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In addition to having a static display, we also would like to have docents
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who come and speak at scheduled times to help to bring this stuff to life.
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It's I know personally that if I go to a museum and I walk around,
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I have one experience.
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But if I go with a docent,
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that actually gives me the insight as to these pieces that I'm looking at,
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it's far more valuable and much more enjoyable human experience.
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So, we're going to have some docents at scheduled times
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to give talks and, they'll just be right there by the booth.
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They're not going to be in a lecture room.
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They're going to be actually talking about the items on display.
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And, you know, I think that once someone starts speaking,
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they'll probably draw a crowd of people that hadn't even thought about it.
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But yeah, just like happens with the docent in a museum,
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you know, there's the scheduled tour, and then people start to come and listen.
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In addition to the scheduled tours.
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Well, you can call me and coach, I'll be there to start
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the crowd gathering. What a wonderful idea.
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And, and some of those docents might be some of your committee members.
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You have a wonderful committee members that are committed
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to advancing history and archives.
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Would you agree with that?
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A wonderful, cadre of great committee members.
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We do.
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We've all broken down into subcommittees.
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Everybody's active and engaged, and the smaller subcommittees
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are giving everyone a sense that they're bringing value to the committee
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In addition - So for the docents, in addition
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to our our committee members,
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we're also going to see if we can get some of the giants of our field
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that, you know, may have been responsible for developing these devices.
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If we can actually get some of those individuals to come and speak,
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at the the display, that would be, also one of our goals.
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Well, let's definitely commit to making that happen.
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I was just going to interrupt you, but you almost took the thought from my mind.
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One of the highlights of the annual meeting for me was randomly bumping
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into Eugene Myers, and I just pulled him and got a recording.
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But more interesting was talking to him and the evolution
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that he has seen, not just in meetings, but in education.
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I'm sure you remember
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some of those great conversations with some of the icons in our field.
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Yes, Doctor Myers is truly one of the giants of our field,
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and someone who, not just through his accomplishments,
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but also through philanthropy and promoting things,
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he has an endowed lectureship in our department.
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So each year we have and it's named for his father, David Myers.
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So we have the David Myers Lectureship each year.
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And tomorrow night I'm going to the College of Physicians.
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There is a talk that's sponsored by a Gene Myers on why doctors write.
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And a short film was made.
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We're going to have a film viewing and talk about
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how doctors express themselves in non-medical, matters,
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you know, to, you know, to develop their humanity.
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Wow. Every time I speak to.
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I learned from you.
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So there's the lineage is three Doctors Myers.
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Correct?
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David.
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Eugene and Jeffrey, in Texas.
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At the at the beginning of the David Myers lecture,
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we always show this photo that has all three generations of Myers.
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And the one photo.
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Yes.
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David Myers was a, chairman
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of the graduate medical,
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hospital department of Otolaryngology and also chair at Temple University.
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So, yeah, there is a very strong lineage in the Myers
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family of, bringing, greatness to our field.
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And they've transformed our international outreach
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and engagement, as you said, through endowments.
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I wonder, Doctor Kearney, if that short film is something
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you might even be able to air in the museum?
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I'll leave it to you to figure it out.
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I've probably gotten myself in trouble with our meetings team, but,
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you know, we want to get that out there.
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It's it's such a treasure trove.
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Sure.
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Or, you know it.
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If we don't, air it in the museum, perhaps we just bring it to the attention
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of the membership through the bulletin, and we put a link to it.
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I'm sure there will be something like a YouTube channel.
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So I always wanted to, bring value to our membership through the bulletin.
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And, this is something I think that will help all of our humanity.
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I attended Tuesday
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morning the resident paper competition.
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If I'm if I'm using it the right way.
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Amazing.
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I was blown away by the residents.
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I'm sure you are every day incredibly intelligent.
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But how they took the adage from your Jesuit freshman teacher
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and what you believe in, they're looking backwards to guide us forward.
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Can you talk a little bit about the resident competition,
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how to get involved, maybe call out a highlighter or a winner from this year?
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I can I remember them if you can, but please Doctor Kearney.
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Sure.
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So a lot of the credit for this competition
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goes to an academy member, doctor Bob Pettit.
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Bob is a neurotologist who practice out in the West Coast.
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Was, one of the people very involved
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in developing the cochlear implants up in San Francisco.
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Bob and his wife, Dori, very much enjoy coming to the annual meeting
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and being part of what used to be called the historical society.
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And so when Bob's wife passed away, he established a foundation in her name
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and funds a an award for the winner
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of the resident paper competition through his foundation.
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So each year we send solicitations out for residents
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and it's now also open to medical students to submit an abstract.
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There is a $5,000 prize for the winner, which is yeah, wait a minute, the.
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Residents getting $5,000?
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$5,000. What is their mentor get?
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Jim, can I mentor somebody and get a cut of that undying gratitude?
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Wow. And, medical students are allowed to participate as well.
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So we send solicitations out each year to the program directors
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and ask them to get the word out.
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We also use the residents and fellows section of ENT Connect
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to get the word out so residents can submit.
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We are looking for original research, not just a regurgitation,
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but we are looking for people that are going and looking at
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original material to, make sure that the sources are all valid
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and, looking for topics that are going to,
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bring interest to the, membership.
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So the,
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competition has been going on for about 6 to 7 years now,
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and the caliber of the submissions is absolutely outstanding.
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So we had, some phenomenal talks this year,
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to the point that I believe that you're actually going to use
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a couple of those speakers to come and talk about innovation going forward.
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Yeah.
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May I try to remember one was on the development
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of the Machida scope and another one that really stood out to me,
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and I think this one, won.
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I hope they did,
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I think it was on oto sclerosis and stapes, the evolution of the surgery.
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Am I right?
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That is correct. Yeah.
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And it's really interesting to see the, the failures that occurred along the way.
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And then, you know, then there's the breakthrough,
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the “aha!” moment that that puts things forward.
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So I think that that was the aspect of the talk
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that was really, interesting to see how you had to have certain things in place.
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You had to have microscopes in place.
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You needed to understand the, the physiology, and then you needed
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someone who is bold enough to, to actually proceed.
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Yeah,
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I'm big into technology and what's around the corner,
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I think of quantum computing or cyber right now.
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The solutions that we have now could only exist in this environment.
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There's been many failures for decades before.
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Same with artificial intelligence, right, Jim?
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I mean, they've been looking at this
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since the 60s and 70s, but you needed computing power.
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You need the right ecosystem.
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So the failures from stapes surgery and the Machida
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scope created the right environment.
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You know, it's, Malcolm Gladwell,
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you know, wrote a whole book about, you know, the way ideas spread
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and how sometimes there are some key individuals that are the connectors and,
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and build the bridges, the influencers who who drive things.
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So, you know, sometimes it takes, you look at,
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the history of trans oral robotic surgery.
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So, a resident goes out and learns the technique, comes back
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and shows it to somebody like Greg Weinstein at Penn, who is a master.
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You know, he's he's got that, systems engineering gene in him.
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And, and then you have someone like Bert O'Malley,
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who is someone who is just, fabulous communicator.
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And you put that together with the HPV epidemic,
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and all those things come together, and suddenly there's an,
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you know, truly revolutionary way of addressing oropharyngeal cancer.
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Very, very well said.
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So we
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you and I were excited
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by the presentations, and we have the ENT Innovation Connection
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and we both were ideating saying if we want to move forward,
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we have to look backwards.
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So we were going to pick some of those
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from that resident research competition, as you said, Jim.
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So really, really appreciate that.
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And we'll do that next year again at the annual meeting.
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This is an annual doctor Pettit has has, endowed this?
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Yes. And, you know,
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hopefully Bob will fund this ad infinitum.
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So it really is.
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Yeah, the prize is certainly something that, drives
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people's interest and gets a lot of submissions for us.
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And, you know, with the opening up things to medical students,
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we all know that our medical students are highly, highly productive.
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They are very,
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motivated to do a lot of research to get into our, our great specialty.
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And we have individuals that have a little bit more time
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than residents who are also going to be putting time and effort into this.
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So, it's going to yield
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great things for us, documenting the history of our specialty.
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Yeah, exactly.
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Very, very well said. Much gratitude to him.
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And that was a phenomenal session.
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I do look forward to it next year I have two more questions for you.
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What's been your biggest historical find?
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Whether it's in otolaryngology, whether it's walking around
22:53
a Pennsylvania hospital, you showed me some amazing
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stories and artwork, but what's been one- I mean, you mentioned
22:59
Chevalier Jackson's desk, but you don't have to have found it.
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But what's been like the coolest thing for you?
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In history, mind, let me tell you mine so I can give you a little second
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to think about.
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I was rotating as a medical student at UPenn from Boston University,
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and there was a patient I saw with director doctor Gary Weinstein.
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And this patient was he had a laryngectomy, the longest in history.
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And Chevalier Jackson had done it when the kid was a little boy.
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So I went to the library at UPenn, the archives, and found
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the chapter that Doctor Jackson had written about this patient.
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And then we saw him 70 years later.
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Amazing.
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Amazing to me that that changed my trajectory
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just as the Jesuit professor changed yours.
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But what's been your coolest find, whether you've discussed it or not?
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So I'm the chair of Otolaryngology of Pennsylvania Hospital,
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and this department and and and division status
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goes all the way back to 1897.
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And the person who served from 1897 to 1930 was a guy
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named Francis Packard, who was also very interested in history.
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And he kept a diary.
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And the Pennsylvania Hospital Archives have the diary.
24:17
I've read his diary. It is fascinating.
24:20
You know, he goes on and on about his friends like,
24:25
Templeton, who's descendant developed the heart lung machine.
24:30
Penrose who, you know,
24:32
the Penrose drain that all of us used was one of his friends.
24:36
A lot of the people whose names are applied to surgical instruments
24:40
were people that he went to medical school with and hung out with.
24:44
It's, fascinating to watch as things evolve.
24:46
Eventually there's a telephone and the boy from the hospital
24:50
no longer has to run to get him.
24:52
When it's time to come to the hospital for an emergency,
24:55
you know, is a telephone that, they can use to reach him.
24:59
He he kind of wanders through
25:03
different specialties before he settles on otolaryngology,
25:08
and it's it's interesting, too, because he talks about the things he tried
25:12
and didn't like.
25:13
And then he finally decides on otolaryngology, and he really thrives.
25:18
He, develops otologic instruments.
25:21
He's, someone who's part of the American Laryngological Association.
25:27
Somebody here with this very, actively engaged
25:30
in our specialty and also in documenting the history of medicine in general.
25:35
Very cool.
25:36
And that was before, I think the ACGME
25:39
put out their study on medical education, I believe.
25:42
Right.
25:43
He trained in the era that was I forgot what that study was in the 40s or 50s.
25:47
Right. The landmark study, the - The Flexner Report.
25:49
Thank you.
25:50
Which really fundamentally changed things for the better in medicine.
25:55
But up until then, it was, a bit of a free for all in terms
25:59
of, you know,
26:00
you just hung your shingle out and maybe declared yourself as a specialist.
26:03
Maybe you went to Europe to get some training, but, really
26:07
very different time.
26:09
And how long have you been the chair of Pennsylvania Hospital?
26:13
I've been here at Pennsylvania Hospital as,
26:16
first the division chief and then the chair
26:18
going all the way back to 2004, or my predecessor was a guy
26:21
named Joe Atkins, who was third generation physician.
26:25
His father was also an otolaryngologist through Penn.
26:30
So Joe and his father worked here for decades.
26:34
Joe was the, division chief for 30 years before me and poor
26:38
Joe just suddenly passed away in 2004, and I was thrust into the position.
26:43
And I've been doing it ever since.
26:45
I'll give you a moment to think about it.
26:47
People know I don't rehearse these podcasts.
26:49
You don't even know what I'm going to ask you. I don't even know.
26:51
So let's go back from Doctor Packard to Doctor Atkins.
26:55
Do you think we could do that? Could you do that for us?
26:57
So there's, Doctor Tierney, then Doctor Adkins, then there's a gap,
27:01
and then Doctor Packard, do you know the gap?
27:03
I don't know, do you know who the prior chairs were?
27:06
I have tried very hard, but,
27:09
Packard was someone
27:12
who documented everything.
27:15
And then there's almost like a, like I there's this gap
27:20
from 1930 until 1974.
27:23
I've been able to find virtually nothing about,
27:26
who the leaders were during that era.
27:30
Well, you're the man for it.
27:31
If you can't find it, we're never going to know.
27:33
So, it's always fascinating, so.
27:37
Oh, sorry. One more question.
27:38
I could go on forever. What
27:41
parallels do you
27:42
see from Doctor Packard's writings to where we are now?
27:45
Maybe just just 1 or 2 where you're like, oh, my God, I can't believe in 100 years
27:49
we haven't evolved or wow, they have the same problems.
27:52
Maybe scope of practice or, reform or payment
27:56
or have and have nots where you say, oh my gosh,
27:59
it's the same 100 years.
28:03
So, you know, there
28:05
there was virtually no regulation back that.
28:08
And it's that's the thing that's so striking.
28:11
When he wants to try something, he just does it.
28:14
You don't need an IRB.
28:17
There's nothing is approved by an FDA.
28:20
You can just go ahead and do things and, you know,
28:23
it's it's, a highly regulated environment that we're in right now.
28:27
You know, we're like the the airlines, you know, where, very much safety focus.
28:33
But there's a lot of regulatory burden that comes with us.
28:36
That's the thing I find most striking.
28:38
There is a show on Cinemax called the Nick
28:43
which I would highly recommend to surgeons.
28:47
It's, it's, two season
28:50
series about loosely based on Halsted, and and you really see how,
28:55
you know, surgeons are evolving
28:57
and trying different techniques, but there's, there's no regulation.
29:01
And sometimes patients pay the cost of that.
29:03
But it was an era where there weren't great alternatives.
29:07
So maybe that was okay.
29:08
But nowadays our
29:10
our standards are so high that, you know, it's a blessing and a curse.
29:14
Yeah.
29:15
End you with one final question.
29:18
Maybe a call to action for us to be engaged again.
29:22
So much gratitude for you for bringing me under the wing.
29:25
I love history, but you've shown me in my role
29:27
how we can partner together to amplify it for our members and for our future.
29:31
So I ask you for 15,000 listeners, 15,000 members, what can we do, Jim?
29:37
What can we do as otolaryngologists
29:39
to ensure the legacy of our specialty is preserved?
29:43
Whether I'm in a community setting, whether I'm in a major academic setting.
29:47
Give us some tangible things, Jim.
29:50
So I just want
29:51
to talk also at the College of Physicians of Philadelphia by a guy named
29:55
Stephen Fried who has written a book about Benjamin Rush.
29:59
Now, Stephen Fried is a journalist.
30:01
He's not somebody who's a trained historian,
30:04
and he calls himself a citizen historian.
30:08
So he is going and looking at original material
30:13
and just using his brain and common sense, and has written a spectacular book
30:19
about Benjamin Rush, very compelling speaker,
30:22
but he did encourage those in the audience.
30:25
He said, I have no formal training.
30:27
I just had a passion and motivation.
30:31
And he went and looked at original sources
30:33
and really brought Benjamin Rush to life.
30:36
You know, through his book and, I would encourage
30:41
the members of the Academy that are interested in history
30:45
to go ahead and write about a topic that you're interested in.
30:49
The Academy Bulletin is actively looking for,
30:53
pieces that are documenting the history of our specialty.
30:57
It doesn't have to be long.
30:58
So, you know, 800 to 1500 words is great.
31:02
Doesn't take that long to produce that type of, of a document,
31:07
maybe 1 or 2 footnotes in there, some photographs.
31:10
If you have something that you're passionate about,
31:12
the history of our specialty, please feel free to send it to me.
31:16
Send it to the Academy Bulletin editor, John Trumbo.
31:21
We are actively looking for solicitations from our members.
31:25
I did my, residency in fellowship up
31:28
in Boston Med school, undergrad, huge historical city,
31:31
and I spent about 18 months to two years in private
31:35
practice settings, community hospitals just throughout the rotations
31:39
and some of the greatest finds were in those hospitals. Jim.
31:42
My God, you know, I'd be riding the elevator up
31:46
and they'd be one of the biggest VIPs
31:48
in the world going there for groundbreaking technology
31:52
or prime ministers and community hospitals innovation.
31:56
You'll see the and you'll look back and say, oh my gosh, 1950s.
32:00
This is where the surgeon was.
32:01
I don't know if you've ever felt that sometimes.
32:03
So I think these stories are all around us.
32:06
It doesn't have to be Philadelphia.
32:08
It doesn't have to be Washington or Boston.
32:09
It's an all of our communities.
32:11
These wonderful legacies of otolaryngology.
32:14
Some of this is,
32:17
you know, just creating audio archives
32:20
of individuals that you think are important to the history of our specialty.
32:25
And it may not be someone who invented a device or a technique.
32:30
It may be someone who's done something really important for our region.
32:34
And, you know, talking to that, person who may be getting on in years and,
32:39
and let's write down the history or get it, recorded, going forward.
32:45
So, you know, even interviews with, you know, historically important figures
32:50
or something that would be, I'm sure of, of interest to the academy membership.
32:54
Well, I'm going to put you on the spot for a third time.
32:56
Do you think we we can remember what the Jesuit freshman teacher said.
32:59
And I still love that quote.
33:01
I think I'm to paraphrase it.
33:02
If we don't learn from our mistakes, we can't go forward.
33:05
Do you think you can get it right?
33:06
What was it again? Something about, we're doomed.
33:09
Yes.
33:12
Those who disregard history
33:14
are doomed to repeat it going forward.
33:18
Jim Kennedy, thank you so much.
33:20
That was perfect.
33:21
Thank you so much for joining us on Voices of Otolaryngology for your service
33:24
to the Academy. Camaraderie and friendship.
33:26
Thank you.
33:28
Thank you, Rahul, for your outstanding leadership.
33:33
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33:34
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33:39
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33:41
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33:42
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33:47
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