Latest / The Bechdel Cast / Love & Basketball with Zainab Johnson

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Love & Basketball with Zainab Johnson · The Bechdel Cast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: On the beck dol Cast, the questions asked if movies
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: have women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: and husbands, or do they have individualism the patriarchy? Zef
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: invest start changing it with the Bechdel Cast. Hi, Welcome
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: to the Bechdel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus. My
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: name is Caitlin Toronte, and this, as always is our
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: podcast about the portrayal of women in movies usually not
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: that good, not that good good. How many episodes have
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: we done to this five thousand? Um, and women have
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: been portrayed well in four of them. I think conservatively
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: did like it was pretty good, and then some people
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: that it's like, you know, somewhere over fifty percent good.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: But then you're like, but still a failing score. Anyways, Um,
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: we use the Bechtel test or Okay, here's what I
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: want to try to do because of today's movie, Um,
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: Bechtel basketball. Can we combine the two of best basketball
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: or Bechtel ball test? I mean we could thoughts? No, Okay,
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: I like love and basketball. Yeah that's so that's this movie.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: We use the Bechtel test, though, to initiate a larger
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: conversation about the representation of women in film and The
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Bechtel Test, of course, is a media metric created by
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: cartoonist Holes and becktel Uh, sometimes called the Bechtel Wallace test,
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: and it requires that two female identifying characters who have
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: names must speak to each other about something other than
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: a man for at least two lines of dialogue. That's
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: our metric. Theoretically, they could talk about love or basketball
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: and it could pass the Bechtel tests. That's true, but
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: it depends the the Bechtel ball tests. Fine, I'm going
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: to figure this out by the end of the episode. Okay,
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: I trust you, Thank you so much. So we are
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: talking about love and basketball. We have a guest, of course,
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: she is a hilarious comedian and we love her dearly.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: It's zab Johnson. Hello here, So what's your your history,
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: your relationship with Loving Basketball. I love the movie Loving Basketball?
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: Do Basketball? The movie Basketball? The movie Love Basketball. But
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: I used to play basketball. I used to play basketball
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: in junior, high school and high school, in a little
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: bit of college. And I saw Loving Basketball when I
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: was in high school. Maybe the w NBA had just
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Love and Basketball came out. Maybe the first year the
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: w NBA prepared not long after. Yeah, very close, right.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: Love the Basketball came out two thousand. The w n
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: B a I think, was established in nineties, but I
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: guess that I was just like reading in the background.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: I guess the first draft of the movie was written
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: before the w NBA existed, so they like changed the
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: ending to include anyways very soon after. Yeah. Well, you know,
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: it felt like a movie at the time. When I
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: saw it, it felt like a movie that was being
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: made for me. I've seen a lot of movies, like
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: as a teenager, and then when I saw that movie,
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: I just felt like, Oh, somebody wrote a movie from
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: me and I and that's why I liked it. Yeah.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: I felt that way about like Benditt, like Beckham, because
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: I was a soccer player, okay, and I well, I
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: didn't have the same exact experience as the protagonist of
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: that movie. I was like, Oh, a soccer movie starring women. Yeah.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: I feel that way about Black Swan. Yeah, yeah, what's
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: your history with this? I had honestly never seen it
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: until we prepped. Yeah, I somehow I missed it, and
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry everybody, but I have seen it three times
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: now since I found out we were going to do
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: this episode, and I'd rather enjoy it. Yeah, it is
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: one of the best movie soundtracks ever in life, and
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: one of the best songs that plays in the movie.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: It's not on the soundtrack, and I hate when they
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: do that, like it's one of those Maxwell songs. It's
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: that Maxwell song. It's there's like two big songs in
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: the movie where it's where he you know, he's like
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: She's like, I'll pelay you for your heart, which come on,
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: come on. It's like we watched it together yesterday. I
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: was fully crying. It's just it is just so it's
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: such for me. It's like I was in a relationship
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: while I was playing basketball, and it felt like a
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: lot of times the two were intertwined. And so when
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: I watched that movie, I just feel like, I just
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: feel like it's such a good representation. I think of
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: what a lot of female athletes go through. I also,
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: I feel like I wasn't seeing a lot of coming
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: of age stories that were all black cast and like
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: really good representation. And I feel like loving love hip hop,
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: oh my god, loving basketball. I feel like it gave
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: me that too. I feel like it gave me representation
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: in so many different ways, and I was very appreciative
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: for that. And we've talked about this on the podcast before,
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: but so few mainstream coming of age stories focus on
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: people of color, black girls, black people at all. Uh,
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: it's mostly white people. And the story does like Triple Duty,
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: where it's like it's a female story, it's a black story,
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: and it's like an athletic story that isn't just focused
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: on it like yeah, it's just this movie has at all.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: This is a big sleepover movie for me. I feel
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: like this would be in the regular I don't know
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: when I would have first seen it, but I know
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: that it was like I played basketball when I was younger,
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: like through seventh grade and then stuff, but it was
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: mostly just because I was tall and around. And then
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: the second that they're like it also requires skill, I
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: was like I should probably just bow out, um, but
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: I really like, like I just this would I feel like,
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: you know, at a sleepover, you do like a double
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: feature with your friends. This would like often be in
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: the rotation and so all the even the moments that
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: are like maybe a little bit corny, it is still
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: like I'll I'll play you for your heart, like that's
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: I love it. So much. It like, yeah, I don't know,
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: this movie still gets me all worked up. I love that.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: I feel like this is like a very specific like
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: flashpoint of like what my into this movie was. But
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: when I first saw it, the Proud Family must have
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: been on the Disney Channel to either of you ever
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: watched The Proud Family? Not really, but I know it's
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: It's start Kyla Pratte Yeah exactly. So I was like, Oh,
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: that's Penny Proud in the movie, and so I was like, yeah,
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: I'll watch this. Um, yeah, it's it. I have a
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: lot of love for it. I think that movie introduced
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: Kyla Pratt was this like her first believe it was
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: her first big because I just didn't know what she
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: looked like. She just sounded I just knew her voice
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: from a cartoon. Yeah. I was like, no, that's Penny Proud. Yeah,
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: she's so good in it too. Everyone like all the
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: performances in this movie here. So I had this interview
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: very recently that Sini Lathan's who the art of Monica
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: in the movie. Um, she said that she wasn't the
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: chosen actress for the film, Like whoever they wanted they
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: couldn't get. Yeah, I did a little bit of research.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: There's a pretty good like oral history that was written
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: about love and basketball. I think on it's like fifteenth
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: anniversary a couple of years ago. And yeah, it sounds
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: like Sana and the director, Gina Prince Bythewood, had a
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: really like contentious onset relationship because so I didn't know
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: if she was cast for months and months, and it
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: was like this weird like her life was on hold.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: She was waiting to find out. It sounded like Gina
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: was trying to Gina was like trying to cast Serena
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: Williams was trying to cast an athlete in teaching them
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: how to act instead of teaching an act or how
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: to play. And I think that there was some production like, no,
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: you should teach an actor how to play because and
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: you should definitely teach an actor how to play. Yeah,
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: like it's it's I feel like it rarely works out
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: when you try to teach an athlete how to act suxceptions,
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: but especially if you're gonna get an athlete that's not
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: even the same sport, that doesn't make sense, like this
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: isn't a tennis movie. No shade to Serena, But I
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: had to teach you two things? Yeah, why not you
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: teach the actor one thing? Yeah, so it sounded yeah,
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: it sounded like she had or so now I had,
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: like it was like given a lot to push up
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: against straight. Yeah, she kind of felt rejected. And I
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: think it's very hard or any of us actors. I'm
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: an actor, not professional performer. What the reason why I
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: asked is because if you are, you know how it
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: feels when when you feel like you're wanted as a
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: as an artist period. You know how it forget it
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: as a person. You know how it feels to be
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: in a space and feel like you're wanted to be there,
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: versus being in a space where you feel like you're
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: not wanted, and then having to be spectacular when you
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: feel unwanted. You know, and I imagine that that's very difficult.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: But I would have never known watching with the performance
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: she turns in is so incredible and like so but
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: her own mar Epps were really dating. I know, I
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: was telling Caitlin before because I hadn't rewatched it in
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: like a couple of years, but I was like, yeah,
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: that's that like virginity scene with them is like I
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: have like such a specific memory of seeing it because
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: I think at whatever time I saw it, when I
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: was like eight or nine, it was like the hottest
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: thing I'd ever witnessed in my life. And so I
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: was like, wait, is that scene like really hot? And
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: Caitlin was like, I don't know. I mean it's the
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: sex scene and then, but I don't know. In my
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: head it was like the most I mean, yeah, and
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: when you see it as a senior formative years that
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: scene is yeah. I think. I don't know if I
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: think it's hot now, but I definitely. I mean I
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: was a teenager when I saw it, and I felt
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: like it was hot. I was wanted a hotter thing
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: that I had ever seen, yeah until that point. But
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: also I felt like there was so much like vulnerability
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: in that scene. Didn't I want to talk all about that? Yeah,
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: it didn't even when I watch even if I watch
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: it now, because Loving Basketball is one of those movies
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: where if it comes on, I'm just gonna watch it,
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: like if I'm in a hotel. It's like, I don't
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: know where I was going today, but I'm watching Loving Basketball.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: Thanks T and T or whoever whoever plays it. But
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: I just I just feel like when I watch it.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: That is such a typical story. You have this best
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: friend who's a boy, but he doesn't see you as
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: like in a track. You know, he doesn't see you
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: as like this possible love interest. And then you like
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: step out one day and he like sees you and
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: you've had this like love for him. I don't know,
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: it's just as old as time. Yeah. So then when
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: they did it, I was just like, yeah, y'all gotta
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: do I very rarely root for people to do it
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: in movies, especially like young people. It makes me a
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: little bit uncomfortable, and I was rooting. I was like, yeah,
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: let's get come on, and it's like one of those
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: starts this love this, let's start this. However, after already
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: the love part of love and basketball, I need the
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: love there, and I feel like watching it now, I'm like, oh,
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: they're both visibly like, I don't feel that weird about it,
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: Like it's all right. If if they actually looked seventeen,
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: maybe i'd feel good about it. But I was like, oh,
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: they're you know, they're adults. They're supposed to be teenagers,
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: but they're adults. It's all good here, Uh, should I
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: get into the group the recap. Yeah, so the structure,
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: we've got a rather than a three structure this time around.
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: It's a four quarter structure becauause basketball is split up
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: into four quarters. Because I guess the only sport that's
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: really built for the three art structure is hockey. Oh,
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: they're only three periods in a hockey game. Yes, Well,
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: where's the hockey movie that exactly follows structure? It's fine? Okay,
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: So the first quarter. We open in nineteen I think
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: eighty one, with Monica as a kid. She has moved
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: to a neighborhood, yes, and she wants to play basketball
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: with some neighborhood boys, including Quincy, and they're like, um,
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: you're a girl. Girls can't play basketball girls, and she's like,
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: screw you, I'm going to be the first woman in
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: the NBA. And then she plays two on two with
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: them and she's really really good. And then Quincy's ego
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: is threatened by this and he pushes her down and
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: her face gets scuffed up, which I guess gives her
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: a scar that she has for her life. Yeah. Um,
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: but then the next day he's like, wait, you're cool.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: Would you be my girl? And she says yes, and
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: then they kiss and then he counts down. He's like,
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: we need to kiss for five seconds, and he counts
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: it on his fingers. It's really cute, but then almost
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: it is. It is. But then almost immediately after that, um,
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: they break up because Quincy is again his ego is
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: hurt because she won't ride on the back of his bike.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: And then she's like, well, your dad plays for the
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: worst team in the NBA, because his dad is also
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: a professional basketball player for the Clippers, I think, and
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: you get context for why I mean, not that it
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: excuses it, but you get context for like why Quincy
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: treats women the way he does pretty quickly, because then
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: you just see his dad and then you're like, he's like, okay,
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: my my role model loves basketball and is mean to ladies.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: Got it? Got it. So then we move on to
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: the second quarter, where Monica and Quincy are in high school.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: They both play basketball for their high school teams. I
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: do love that moment when like the movie jumps ahead
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: in time and then you see the like the person
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: you know is the main actor. I don't know, it's
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: just the next that you're like, oh, there she is.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: She's on the poster and Monica is hoping to get
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: recruited to play basketball in college UM, but she has
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: a bit of a temper and her coach often benches
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: her because of it, and she doesn't get to play
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: as much as she would like. UM. She and Quincy
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: are friends. They watch each other's basketball games, but they're
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: not in love. Or maybe they are in love, but
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: like they're not doing anything about it their secretly in love.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: They argue a lot. There's a lot of tension the
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: queens and teasing each other because Quincy is always like
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: dating someone else and making out with a bunch of
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: different girls because like, sorry, Quincy's like a star. And
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: I feel like in the second quarter, first of all,
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: let me just go back the first quarter. Just as
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: much as they show Quincy's example and his father, they
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: show Monica's example in her mother, and it's very important
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: as to why her temper is, how how it is,
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: why she's so outspoken, why she is the fighter that
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: she is right. But then when they go to the
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: second quarter, I feel like they do a really good
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: job of showing how little celebration women get for being
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: as good at something. It's like Quincy is this star, right,
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: and so he's going to get everything that you can
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: think a star athlete Mail is going to get, right,
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: and then Monica is also this star, but she doesn't.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: She seems like she's having the hardest time. And I
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: feel like that was a very accurate representation totally of
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: what sports are like, what life is like, just for
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: men and women doing the same thing right, right, because
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: it's like very clear that Monica is doing the exact
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: same thing at the same like caliber. But yeah, I mean,
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: she's getting pushed back from her mom because she's not
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: quote unquote feminine enough. She's getting pushed back from her sister,
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: she's getting pushed back from Quincy, who is like I mean,
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: I feel like, especially there's a lot of people in
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: her life criticizing her for not being more interested in
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: dating when it's like she's got a full plate, like
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: her anger doesn't seem like it's justified in all the
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: forces that are around her. But then by contrast, yeah,
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: like Quincy is getting like all the accolades and all
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: the recruiters love him, and he's like getting all the women,
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: and like even the girls to try and befriend her
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: are not befriending her because they think she's cool or talented,
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: they're befriending her to simply try and get a date
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: with right right, which is like, yeah, of course she's
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: fucking pissed off, Like it's yeah. That reminds me when
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: I was in high school playing soccer. Um, the women's
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: soccer team scored more points throughout the like the fall
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: season one year than the football team. And football, when
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: you score a point it's six or seven points. I
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: don't really know how football works, but like, the members
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: of the football team are still like hot ship that
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: everyone loved and like. And then everyone's like girls soccer,
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: who wants to watch that? And it's like we're doing
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: better than the football team and one of their touchdowns
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: is six times as many points as one of our goals.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: But you know what, you know, the only people who
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: can fix that are women. Everything that men ever do
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: in life that is gonna sound crazy, especially as young boys,
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: especially as like adolescents, is that is to get women.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: So the way women support men's sports and a go
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: after men, if we did that for women, it would
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: only bring it would bring everybody around, because everybody wants
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: to be where women are. It just it just especially
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: in high school. Yeah, we're the hot girls. We're going there. Oh,
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: they're at the girls soccer game. Then we gotta be
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: at the girls soccer game. And then together they're like, oh, wait,
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: these girls are really good. That's true. We have to
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: travel in herds, we have to get Yeah. Damn. So
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: we didn't have the cheerleaders cheering at artemes. Yeah, I know,
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: because we didn't have cheerleaders at our games with the
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: boys had cheerleaders, um at the basketball games. Oh, that's
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: so frustrated. It's depeated. We had them if our game
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: was on a day where the boys weren't playing. But
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: if it was, if we ever played when they played,
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: then the priority. Yeah, I mean tracks. But then we
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: want a city championships, right exactly. Anyway, So so she
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: and Quincy their friends, they argue a lot, and then
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: it's the last game of the season. It's like the
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: championship game for Monica, but her team loses by one
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: point and she's devastated. Uh. Then there's this spring dance
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: where Monica's sister, Lena, played by Regina Hall, sets Monica
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: up with this cute college boy who she knows, and
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: then Quincy also goes to the dance with Shawnee Gabrielle
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: Union's character, and Quincy and Monica both act like they're
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: not into each other, but they very clearly are, because
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: they're staring at each other while they're dancing with other
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: people and there's an in sync song playing even though
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: it's but you know, yeah, I just got paid Friday nights.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I could pull up any song from Bye
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: Bye Bye from memory. I like, now, are you sure
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: the instinct didn't make this song over? I'm pretty sure.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: I Actually I should check because I was like, but
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: it sounded like it was justin timber Lay's voice. I
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: can't tell, right, Okay, I'll triple check it because I
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: was like, wait, is what what? Anyways, let's let's table it. Okay,
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: I'll look at it. And then they both go home
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: after the dance and they're still next door neighbors and
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: they're like, hey, she opens a letter from USC saying
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: that she's been recruited to play basketball for them, and
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: he's like, I'm going there too, and then they kiss,
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: and then they go into her room and have sex.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: Then we cut to the third quarter. They are both
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: freshman at USC, they're in love. They are together. They're
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: both playing basketball for the teams at USC, and Monica's
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: coach and a few of her upperclassmen teammates are giving
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: her a hard time because she's like, you know, a rookie.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: But again, Quincy is having a very easy time and
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: everyone loves him and the fans, the coaches, he's he's
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: having a very easy go of it. But then he
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: finds out that his dad was having an affair, or
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: maybe it's currently having an affair. And some of my
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: favorite any time we're talking about this yesterday, but anytime
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: there's like they're cheating. Look, and then private detective photos
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: come out and they're like the most incriminating thing humanly
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: possible and also impossibly close. I love movie private detective photos.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's no question about what it's like, high
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: resolution like and whenever you see like real p I photos,
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: you're like, oh, I sort of see what's going on there,
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: but it's like high resolution Mr Hall State like committing
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: a deed. Um Anyways, So what happens after that? He
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: needs Monica to be there for him, but it's important
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: for her to make her few right. She is having
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: to balance both love and basketball and at this one
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: moment when he's kind of, you know, his family is
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: being torn apart, he's having a rough time. She's like, well,
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: I can't be there for you right now. I have
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: to make her few or else I won't be able
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: to start in the game. And he gets really hurt
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: and mad, and he kind of teaches her lesson by
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: taking another girl on a date, like right in front
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: of her, and then he breaks up with her. He's like,
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: you're not here for me. I'm going to drop out
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: of school anyway and go pro. Then, well know, he
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: has a famous line. He says, why don't you go
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: fuck Dick Vital? That line only because that time Dick
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: Vital was so like such a big sports name in sports,
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: a sports commentator. I was like I had to look up. Oh,
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: he was such a big deal, and like he was
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: just such a big deal, like I believe in the
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: nineties in early two thousand's, and so for him to
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: call her out like that, it was like, oh, I
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: mean that was pretty instant. That's like like if somebody
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: was trying to be a singer and it was like,
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: why don't you a funk? Ryan's secrets, Like I don't know,
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but it was something like that. It
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: was like the nerve of him and vital with some
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: old ass white man. Is he the person they play
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: a clip of in the movie. There's like that weird
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: cut to like an ESPN is old ass white man.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: So for him to say that, but he was like,
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: you know, dick bits out was such a huge sports
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: commoner comment comment. He was huge. Okay, Okay, that means
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: because every time that part had since I've seen this
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: movie for the first time, I was like, who the
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: fund is that? Why does he have so much screen time?
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: Like he must be famous otherwise this part makes yeah, okay, yeah,
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: okay that that breakup scene is so oh. I just
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: think it's so mad for every single time she was
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: one night, it was one night, she was there for
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: most of the time all the other night anyway, So okay.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: Then we cut to the fourth quarter and it's a
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: few years later. Monica is playing pro ball in Spain.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: Quincy is playing for the Lakers, but he tears his
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: a c l and he's in the hospital and Monica
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: goes to visit him, and the entire banks comes in
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: and she's like, we're engaged. I always forget tire Banks
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: is in this and then she suddenly is and you're like,
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: oh the time too. But like when I at the
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: time when I I was like, oh that that's so cool,
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: look Tyra Banks. But now when I look back at it,
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, like even an injured as athlete can
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: get like a supermodel as much as she was only
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: playing like a flight attendant or something. But it's like like,
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: he ain't got ship going, he ain't got no college degree.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: And then there's like that scene where like Alfrey Woodard
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: is like, you know, he can do better. I'm like
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: better the entire banks What are you talking about? I mean,
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: I know I love talking about Monica. Yeah, like the
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: first time she says something nice to her daughter, Oh,
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: that relationship is so I mean, I can't wait to
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: talk about it. Yeah. Sorry, So you know, Monica is like,
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: oh no, he's engaged. And then she decides that basketball
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: isn't really fun for her anymore. She decides to kind
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: of give it up. She's like something's missing from it.
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: I think she ends up getting a job working at
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: her dad's bank, and then Quincy's like, I don't get it.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: You love basketball. And then one night, she wakes him
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: up because they're both staying at their parents houses, which
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: are again next door to each other, and she's like,
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: what's missing from basketball? Is you? Quincy? I love you?
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: I love you. Since I was eleven, I was like,
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: I'm getting married to Tyra Banks. I love Tyra Banks.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: But then she wants to play him for his heart. Yeah.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: She thinks that if he lets her win, that will
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: be like the signal that he wants to be with her.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: But he doesn't let her win. He wins, and she's
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: like no, she's walking away and he's like, wait a minute,
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: that part a little bit different. Okay. I didn't see
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: it as mom of thought that he would let her win.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: I thought that she truly thought that she had a
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: chance at beating Yeah. I think it's a little bit
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: more empowering. That's why when she misses or whatever, it's
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: like a final shot where she misses or he makes it,
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: and it's like devastating for her, but it's not devastated
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: like want want, like how dare you make that? It's
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: like how did I let that? She beats herself up
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: as if it's the championship game in high school. So
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: I don't think she was like, he'll let me win
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: in that proves he loves me. I think that it
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: was a surprise after she loses and he's like, god it,
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: I totally see that. I was thinking, like, because there's
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: that scene earlier when they're in college and like they're
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: playing like strip basketball and she said something like or
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: he's like, oh, I let you win or something because
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: like so they could like strip and see each other naked.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: So I thought that was like a kind of a
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: continuation of that, but also like, I think what you're
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: saying makes more sense, and it's probably the case. See,
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: like I think it was. I think it was like, yeah,
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: this is what we used to do. But I think
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: she truly thought, like if somebody says you're the only
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: thing missing from like what's missing from basketball is you?
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: I think she really that was her last That was
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: her last line, and to fit it's like I'm gonna
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna try and beat you and you'll have to
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: be with me. And I think she really believed. I mean,
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: he had a freaking knee brace someone. Right. If I
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: can't beat you any other time, isn't it beat you
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: after you just toy your a c M. Yeah, yeah,
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: I mean either way, like it's you get that amazing
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: moment of like him having to like he wins, he
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: has all of a sudden the power in this situation.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: And then it almost like she inadvertently or depending on
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: how you look at it, maybe on purpose, he has
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: to like call his own bluff and be like I
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: wont but like and then kiss, and then we're like,
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: poor Tyra Banks, I don't give a shit about I
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: was so invested in Monica and Quincy it was tortured
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: to even say, I'm like, get when are we gonna
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: get back on track? Oh, it's and it is, like
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: it is so satisfying when they Yeah, I get very
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: emotional about it. And then at the end, Yeah, So
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: we cut to what I think should have been called
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: overtime because we've got the first four quarters and then
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: we've got another flash forwards and I know, right, but
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: we see Monica and Quincy. They are married, they have
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: a baby. He's sitting on the sidelines with the baby
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: and she's playing in the w n B A. Yeah,
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: a love story, right, I'm like this, um man. I
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: guess Monica moves for a while, but for the most part.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: I'm like, Quincy never had to move his entire life.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: That's that's good for him. Um. So yeah, that's the story.
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: Let's take a quick break and then we'll come right
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: back to discuss. And we're back. Where should we start?
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: Where to get There's a lot to cover. Yeah, there's love,
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: there's basketball, and then that's just the beginning. I guess
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: there's two topics to this. Well, I mean, DAP, as
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: you already mentioned, like this is almost an entirely black cast.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: This is every major role being played by a black actor.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: I think the only exception is Monica has a white
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: coach in college, but she's kind of like she's in
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: like three and there's that one on one where it's whatever,
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: that like coach thing where they're like I'm hard on
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: you because I care, like alright whatever by and like yeah,
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: but yeah, I almost I forgot about her, right, But yeah,
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's representation that we don't see very much
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: in mainstream movies especially, and the fact that it's I mean,
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: and we've already sort of started to touch on this,
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: but like women being athletes, Black women being athletes, and
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: like having it treated with the you know, like importance
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: that it deserves to be treated is so cool. We
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: have uh black female director who wrote and directed this movie.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: This is I think this was her first movie ever
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: that she made, and so yeah, you have like a
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: lot of this movie has right right from I was
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: gonna say, right from the jump corny okay, right from
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: the beginning up shot, so much going for it that most,
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: I mean most movies period, much less an athletic movie
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: would have UM and I hope I'm saying her name.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: Gina Prince bythewood. Um was also like at least a
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: high school basketball player. And I was doing some research
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: on the production of this movie, and I guess she
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: one of her frustrations was that she had seen women
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: playing basketball and movies before, but she thought it was
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: never filmed well and so that female basketball players, and
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: especially black female basketball players, had been done in disservice
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: where there been a movie that was about it. And
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: even when there was seen, like she was like, they
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: were clearly not playing real basketball. They didn't look like
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: they had the athletic power that female basketball players have
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: to have, and so she was kind of leading with
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: like that being the goal and then built this story
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: kind of around it. Interesting. Yeah, I will say that.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: You know who looked like they couldn't play a look
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: of basketball? Quincy? He looks like I was like, okay,
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: we gotta start with him playing basketball. Any scenes where
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: he has to look like he's playing basketball, because it's
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: pretty terrible. Yeah. Also, okay, not to body shame Omar Epps,
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: but he somehow makes it to the NBA. He's like
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: five ten or so, Like he seems so short, and
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: again it shout out to all our short kings out
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: there that is even that short, but like, um short king,
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: I'm like, how did you make it to pay basketball
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: when you're pretty average? The same way Tom Cruise climbs
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: a freaking building and jumps out of a plane. It
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: saves everybody, and he's four to I think we thought
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: that Quincy was I think I assumed that Quincy was
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: taller than Omar Epps is in real life. I have
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: no idea what his height was, but I mean that
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: was yeah. I mean it's it doesn't help that like
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: his father is really like taller, ye much taller than him. Yeah,
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean also, I feel like you
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: can kind of easily justify the height discrepancy by being like, well,
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: he's also got like some pretty strong nepotism going for
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: him to also he played the correct position for his height. Like,
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: what we have to remember is some of our best
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: basketball players, some of our favorite basketball players around that time,
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: especially one of the biggest basketball players when we loving
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: basketball came out with Alan Iverson, who was a point
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: guard and he was a very small So point guards
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: are normally shorter or that they don't have to be Like, no,
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: they don't have to be seven football. I mean it's
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: great when they are great when if you're doing anything,
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: if you're taller, that's going to give you more wing
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: span more. But a lot out of them and some
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: of the really good ones have been smaller. Okay, that
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: makes sense. I don't know enough about an athlete not
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: smaller for a regular brand. I think what we have
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: to also remember at that time is Omar EPs was
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: like wanted to black guys. You know, he had done
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: so many movies that were like sort of coming of
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: age black movies, and so it just just forget like
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: what's true to a story. What also happens in Hollywood
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: is like who will people pay to see? Right? Oh, Like,
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: let's get I think Tubac was dead already. Okay, I'm going,
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: I'm going. I'm just saying, there's still that same thing
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: where you wonder, like why did they get this person
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: to play this role? Oh, they were hot at they
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: were that hot at the time, And like Omar Epps
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: had already played an athlete and like two other movies.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: So it's like he was just and and it seems
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: like um for the director as well, he was. It's
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: so weird how like the characters, the way the characters
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: are treated by the story also kind of mirrors how
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: the director's relations to with them, because like Omar Epps
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: was her first choice, there was never a question. He
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: kind of sailed through it and then in the in
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: the meantime, so I had an incredibly difficult time throughout
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: the entire thing, and just there were more just kind
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: of just like Monica by mistake, and yeah, I didn't
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: realize or maybe I'd forgotten that she and Omar Epps
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: were dating for the whole time of this movie. That
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: I just love when people, um have love and basketball. Yes,
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: I guess that's what I'm saying. Um. Just to continue
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: the conversation about women in sports and the movies about them.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: Most sports movies are not about women, believe it or not.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: Um imagine that there are some though, and we've covered
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: a fair amount of them on the podcast already. Between
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: a League of their Own, Bend It like Beckham, bring
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: It on Center Stage is either a recent episode or
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: upcoming episode depending on when this episode comes out, and
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: then also black Swan is an upcoming episode, and then
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: we also covered a Tania on the Matreon. But um,
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: it's just worth noting that so few sports movies are
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: focused on women. But it's also comes at no surprise
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: to us because women's sports are not valued by the
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: general public. But it's always like when especially when movies
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: about female athletes do well, it always like raises the
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: tide for like your saying thing I have, like seeing
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: yourself on screen and like the impact of maybe like
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: a young girl who wanted to play basketball but didn't,
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: like you know, sometimes you're just like, is that what
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: I should be doing? Is this like what a girl
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: like quote unquote can do? And then you see a
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: movie like this and you're like, oh, okay, I could
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: see that great, um okay, so well, we've covered some
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: of the basketball part of Love and basketball. Um, should
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: we cover some of the love forever the love because
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: the love is where things get a little um trickier.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: So the relationship between Monica and Quincy is often a
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: bit tumultuous. He is per perhaps not a feminist icon
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: in that he does have a pretty fragile male ego
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: throughout the starting from all of the quarters. The quarters
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: lashes out with ego related stuff, starting with you know
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: at the very beginning when he's saying like, girls can't
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: play ball and then scars her for a life, but
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: pushes her down because she's about to beat him, and
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: he's like, well, I can't have that. I can't have
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: a girl beating me at basketball. So and then you
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: know she does. There's the exchange where she says, I'm
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: going to be the first girl in the n b
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: A and he's like, you're not going to be in
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: the NBA. I'm going to be in the NBA and
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: you're gonna be my cheerleader. That doesn't set necessarily a
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: good example for the rest of their relationship. Also, like
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: the whole like you have to sit on my bike
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: and I'll drive you around. She's like, I want to
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: ride my own bike. Then he pushes her down again,
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: but she fights back and you know, insults his dad
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: and the clippers and stuff. Uh. Then they're in high school.
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: This is before they get together. He still isn't tree
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: in her very well. He negs her a lot. Well
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: there's I mean, there's that whole setup throughout their kind
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: of relationship in high school and college where he seems
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: to like kind of continuously flirt with other women to
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: quote unquote teach her a lesson, which ends up kind
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: of being one of the reasons that they like break
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: up and things kind of come to a head. Is
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: like any time she is whatever, not doing what he
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: wants her to do or not acting how she wants
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: him to act um or sorry reverse that he will
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: initiate like kind of emotional warfare and be like, Okay, well,
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: if you're not going to do this, then I'm going
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: to go talk to you know, and just almost reminding
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: her like I have options, I don't need you, and
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: just kind of using that to put her down when
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: she's already so kept down by so many things. It
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: makes me man for her sometimes then, right, I know,
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: I feel so bad because I'm like I have so
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: much sympathy frequency. Really I do. I know that. That's
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: like as you're as you were talking, I was thinking
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: like even when I even when I was young and
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: saw the movie, I don't know. I have a lot
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: of siblings, and so when I see the behavior, like,
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: obviously it's all I see it. Definitely its egotistical, but
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: I also I see it more as immaturity, and I
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: see Quincy was like an only child, and he truly
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: mirrored exactly what he saw with his dad. Yeah, with
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: his dad and his mom, Like, he truly mirrored exactly that.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: And then I think, like when we first saw them,
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: there are certain things that are like true to a time, right.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: So like if I see a movie that's in like
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: um during slavery or something, right, and somebody wants somebody
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: to be super like a superhero, right, but they instead
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: get whipped, It's like, yeah, that was slavery. That's what
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: happened in historically, you know what I'm saying. And so
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: when I think about him doing what he did, when
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: him saying girls don't play basketball, when I think about
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: as much as I was not born in I can't
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: think of any images even in the eighties where I
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: saw women playing basketball. I didn't know no friends who
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: played basketball. The first time that I played basketball, which
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: was in the late nineties, nobody was like, you should
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: play basketball. I saw no examples. It was just like
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: I walked in the gym one day and it was
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: a basketball and some other girls were playing and I
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: was tall enough, and it was like, you should probably
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: do this too, you know. But so I feel like
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: his statement, while it sounds so misogynistic, it's it's actually
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: just like a fact of that time, and it's like
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: what he knows, right. That's like one thing that I
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: think that this movie does really well is even when
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: Quincy is saying stuff that like now and and in
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: some instance for its time as well, like sound misogynists
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: and cruel, and at times it genuinely is like sometimes
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: the way he treats Monica, you're like, this is not okay. Uh.
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: But I at least appreciate that the movie makes it
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: clear to you that his behavior and her behavior don't
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: exist in a vacuum, and you get this equal focus
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: on like, you know, he's very clearly pulling from the
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: behavior of his father, and and to watch him I
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: wish it even like I guess perfect world. I wish
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: that things coming to a head with his father and
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: him kind of losing faith, and like, you know that
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: moment that I feel like happens for a lot of
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: people where you're like, oh, my parent doesn't perfect and
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: like there goes my hero or whatever that's the name
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: of a song, right, But like you know, when when
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: that kind of all comes crashing down, you almost like
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: wanted to impact his behavior even more, but like you
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: do see where it comes from, I don't know. And
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: and just like watching the way he and Monica deal
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: with things differently, where Quincy sees an example and he
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: emulates it, you can't really fault him for that. That's
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: what kids do. But then you see Monica seas an
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: example and her mother and she rejects it, and she's like,
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: I don't want to be that person. I see how
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: my mom is treated, like in that amazing scene where
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: she's like, I saw how you know, dad treated you,
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: and I didn't want to be that person. So yeah,
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's it's tough because like Quincy has
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: a ton of toxic behavior that I feel like Monica,
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think, okay, this is maybe getting a
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: little off dunk, but like the thing that bothered me.
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, you could make the argument that he maybe
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: should have demonstrated a little more improvement as a person
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: before Monica should have taken him back. But what frustrated
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: me on like a doing whatever a critical rewatch, which
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: I've never done for this movie, was at the end
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: he like owes her an apology for the way they
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: broke up, Like that was very clearly on him. It
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: was all writing on like you couldn't be there for
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: me when I needed you. It was one night, Like
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: it's I feel like with a few years of distance,
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: you could be like, Okay, I overreacted maybe, And he
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: doesn't apologize to her. She apologizes to him for being
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: like I should have been there that night, and I
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: was like, no, you shouldn't have. You won that game,
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: like you know. So that is my major thing with
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: their relationship is like I wish he had made more
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: of a change in the way that he deals with
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: his life before she took him, because you write a
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: lot of it is like him being immature and like
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: modeling his behavior after the examples that are set for
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: him by his parents, and that's how parenting works, and
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: that's how children are raised. So you like there's a yeah,
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: we can't place too much blame on him as a
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: younger person, but as he as he grows and you know,
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: sees the world around him and really starts to understand
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: how the world works, and that you can't you know,
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: be constantly disrespecting women and your girlfriend. Yeah, and so
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: we do better at basketball the way. Also, he was
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: like so codependent, Like as when we see Monica after
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: him as an adult, we see her always on her own.
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: We see her in this different country. I think it's
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: like really like like everybody travels now right at the
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: very least for an Instagram post, But that's feel like
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: as a single woman playing but you know, in in
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: the early nineties, for you to just be going around
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: the world, especially when your example of what a woman
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: should do is your mom, who is dependent on your father,
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: I just felt like that was so like vogue for
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: her to do that was you know, she just was
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: clearly like the stronger person all of the time, and
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: he was cold, depending he was never alone and he
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: never really had to like answer for that or I mean,
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: you you hope. I like to think by the end
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: end of the movie, where she's in the w n
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: b A and he's kind of like doing the stay
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: at home dad thing or we don't know what he's doing,
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: but he's he's there being the supportive force. It's kind
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: of the first time where we see him being the
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: supportive force where she's supporting him the entire movie until
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: they break up. And then it was nice at the
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: end to see like, Okay, he is going to be
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: a supportive force for her finally, like he owes her that,
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: and you hope that these discussions have been maybe head
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: off screen, you know, maybe well she's pregnant, maybe they're
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: just figuring stuff out at the house. I don't know,
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: but yeah, yeah, Like she is such a strong, cool person.
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: And sometimes I'm like, does Quincy fully understand how fucking
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: great Monica is? I hope, I hope so, I hope
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: so um and another it's like the Monica defense force.
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: And then also, I mean, even though his behavior, like
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: we said, is toxic in a lot of ways, especially
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: when he's younger, she's always challenging it. She's always pushing
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: back against against like several characters who are giving her
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: a hard time. Her mom's always like be more feminine,
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: quit acting like a boy all the time. Her dad's like,
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: you know, control your temper. Quincy says, control your temper,
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: and she calls out this like sexist double standard. At
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: one point where she says to Quincy, there in high school,
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: she says, you know, you jump in some guy's face,
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: you talk, smack, you get a pad on your ass,
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: basically saying like you get congratulated for getting angry, but
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: because I'm a female, I get told to calm down
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: and act like a lady. Uh. And that just I
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: mean we had uh. Friend of the cast Saya Shamali
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: on the podcast. Her book Rage Becomes Her is all
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: about how historically women's anger hasn't been allowed, hasn't been
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: socially acceptable. Women just aren't allowed to be angry or
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: express anger. And she's doing that and she's she's like,
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: I should be allowed to be angry, like I lost
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: a game, Like let me emote about that, and people
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: are just like no, no, no, no. Compending her mother too,
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: her mother is like calling her out if for some reason,
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: it plays on the DVD menu, Like that scene just
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: plays on the DVD menu. It's such a weird choice.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: But yeah, her mom calls her out for displaying too
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: much emotion about her performance in the game, like she's like,
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: it's just a game, Yeah, relax, like you. She says
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: something like that attitude you get when you lose is
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: like not whatever, not becoming um. She tells her to
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: smile more at one point too, and and yet and
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: Monica never folds to that for sure. Yeah so yeah, uh.
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: Monica is always pushing back, challenging the status quo, challenging
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: anything like sexist that gets said to her, and which
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: is so interesting too because it's also that conversation like
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: nature versus nurture, Like you know, it's like Quincy, it's
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: like Monica has no example of strength really, but she's
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: the strong person. I don't want to say that because
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: I feel like there's something strong in the choice that
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: her mom made to I feel like, whatever, Okay, she's nothing,
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: nothing like her mom. So that's just nature, right, who
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: how she is and who she is, it's just nature.
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: But then Quincy is like all nurture, like I'm this
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: is all I'm a product of. Yeah, And I think
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: that that was very I like, I mean yeah, because
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: I feel like everyone's I don't know, there should be
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: like some nature nurture spectrum of like some people fall
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: a little more on the like, yeah, this is just
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: how they are, and then some people very much are
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: like I'm following, and so it's those footsteps were like
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: this is what I saw. I don't know, Yeah, Monica
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: is saw her own person. I think it was like
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: a really interesting choice to also include her sister, who
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: is very much more on the nurture side of like
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: she's going basically with her mother's example, and we see
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: her later that you know, she's she's a stay at
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: home mom and she's had a kid and all this stuff,
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: and that she's kind of rewarded with the favorite title
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: for taking her mom's cues versus pushing against them. Um,
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: because it just stands to make Monica even more like
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: unique in her own family of like, yeah, it's not
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: like her sister wasn't like impervious to it. And in
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: most scenes with her sister, it's her sister like brushing
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: and doing her hair, and it's like a very like
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: you know, feminine kind of domestic type of thing. And
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: and we're not saying that like that is lesser than
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: you know, Monica playing basketball and choosing like that's you know,
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: they're they're just different as all. I don't think the
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: movie is saying that either. The movie is not passing
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: judgment on her sister for going a different way, but
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: it's just I guess her mom. Really, I feel like
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: she passed the judgment on her own mom. But I
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: don't think the movie is because you I would say, yeah,
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: I feel like because you get that scene with the
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: two of them, and and Monica is you know, kind
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: of like you know why she's doing it, but you're like, oh,
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: he's up a little bit where she's shipping on her
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: mom because her mom it's so like it breaks her
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: heart a little bit because her mom keeps bringing up
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: when Monica like got dolled up for the prom and
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: looked traditionally like feminine the way her mom wanted her to.
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: And her mom's always like, that's my proudest memory of you,
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: like when I was making you do something you didn't
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: want to do. And she brings that up again, and
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: Monica snaps at her, and then we get to see
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: how her mom what is that it's Camille as a
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: name of the character, and then Camille kind of gives
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: her perspective of like I had dreams too. There were
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, like you were saying saying like she's a
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: product of her time in a lot of ways, where
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: like she got pregnant and felt like, well, this is
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: the option and had to like kind of sideline her
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: own ambition, and also she thought that I do think
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: the movie was passing a little bit of judgment on
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: the homemaker. But I think that they also were like,
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: but here's why, Like I feel like they tried to
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: give both sides of like, here's the problem, but let's
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: just show what causes. Let's just show why it's not
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: really you know, where her mom said, Like, I feel
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: like the mom felt like she was a hero or
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: a hero in some sense because she was like, yeah,
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: but I made sure that you guys always ate. I
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: made like this is what I could do well, and
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: I did it as best as I could. Every single day.
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: I showed up. I set aside sometimes what made me happy,
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: because this is what made your dad happy, and that
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: allowed your lives to be what they are. And I
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: think a lot of mothers do. I have friends that
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: are mothers like their young mothers, and they still are like,
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: my husband won't take the trash out, And in my mind,
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: I'm like, just don't take the fucking trash out. You
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: have to just don't do Yeah, now we just all
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: living in trash. Somebody got a break first, but they
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: always take the trash out. Do you know what I'm saying,
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: which just allows the behavior. Well, that's I think that
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: is actually what Monica is passing judgment against her mom for,
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: which is not pushing back. Never There's that scene early
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: on when um, Monica's dad is like which shirt should
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: I wear? And she's like this one. He's like, well
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: just iron them both just in case, and she's like, okay,
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: I guess I have to do all your own and like, yeah,
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: she never challenged, she never pushed back, and like, maybe
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: why don't you learn how to iron yourself and I
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: earn your own shirt? But um, and that's what Monica
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: was like, it's not that you're a homemaker, it's not
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: that I passed no judgment against that mom. It's that
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: you never challenged anything, You never stood up for yourself.
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: Um that Yeah, I mean that's just an interesting dynamic. Yeah,
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: And like that generation gap just kind of being because
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: that's kind of like the Boomer gen X divide is
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: like starting with gen X, that was like a more
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: like let me fucking do something. I'm going to keep
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: challenging it. And that's why I think why you're saying,
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: like Monica like allowed herself to be angry and like
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: allowed herself to to have a temper and to have
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: a quote attitude because she's like, well, if my mom's
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: not going to do it, like, I don't want to.
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: I don't want to do that. That's not who I am.
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: I don't want to be that, and I'm going to
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: because you could see moments where like her mom wanted to,
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: She's like, I really don't have to iron both, but
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: she didn't. She didn't say anything, and um, she just
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: chose to remain silent, and that's like what bothered Monica. Yeah. Also,
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: I think it would have been very different, and this
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: is just a small stipulation in a pet peeve of mine.
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: If he would have said, hey, baby, I'm not sure
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: which one I want to wear? Can you iron both?
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: But to come in and say what do you think?
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: Oh you think that? Why don't you just eye your both?
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: It's like why did you even add my opinion? Yeah,
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: Because then he's just saying like well, funk what you think,
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: I don't trust your Yeah, yeah, there's and and then
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: there's a lot. I mean you don't see her quite
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: as much. But I thought that um Quincy's mom is
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: also an interesting character where you get that scene where
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: she is, you know, miserable she's found out that her
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: husband's been cheating on her. On top of you know,
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: we knew that their relationship was in trouble anyways because
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: we saw them fighting, We saw him also expecting her
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: to do stuff that she was just like, give me
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: this one thing, and what he wasn't doing it. And
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: then there's that scene where Quincy, you know, you kind
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: of see him fall apart in a way because his
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: mom is devastated. She's like, your father has been cheating
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: on me, and he doesn't believe her. At first, he's like,
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: there's no way that could be true, because if that's true,
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: then like his whole view of himself is going to
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: have to change. But it's like the French people are mad.
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: But but it's like it's interesting that like, yeah, he
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: like Quincy is so caught up in this view of
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: his father because of the way he's been brought up
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: that you know, it's like his mom needs to have
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: these high res p I photos for her son to
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: be like, oh fuck, this is happening, which was like,
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I thought that that was like a
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: well written moment for Quincy because you're like, oh, he's
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: like far down the rabbit hole of like my dad
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: is perfect, Like his mother is in tears and drunk
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: by the pool, and he's like, I don't know, it
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: seems like you might be overreacting, you know. Um, yeah,
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: I thought I wish. I almost wish that relationship was
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: explored a little bit more, but it's like you only
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: got so many minutes. And then they apparently get divorced
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: because we see Quincy's mom with a new heir and
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: a new man. I like, I like, I like that
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: like weird movie like film language where Quincy's dad fat
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: and I think it's the third quarter. He's a little
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: down to his luck. He's gone through a divorce and
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: it's just communicated to you by him being at a
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: bar by himself, and you're like, oh, he's not and
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: he's like wearing beige and you're like he's not doing great,
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: and he's not doing great. Yeah, we got to take
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: another quick break, So time out and then we'll be
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: right back and we're back. Um. Can we talk about
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: the subplot with Sidra, Yeah, teammate in college that I
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: found to be interesting and like also kind of reflective
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: of this of the time where with women playing basketball
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: in the late eighties, which is when she's in college
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: into the early nineties, the trajectory for for women to
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: continue being athletes and to be pro athletes, they have
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: to go overseas, Like there's no w n B A
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: in the US yet. Um, so I understand they're like
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: this then creating this intense competition between women who are teammates,
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: but there's still, you know, there's still this sense of like, well,
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: there's so few opportunities for us that we kind of
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: have to compete against each other. Like best case scenario,
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: they have to uproot their lives and move to Spain, right, Um,
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: Because you see this moment early on when Sidra is
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: like spotting her as she's bench pressing, and she says
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: something like, you know, just because we played the same position,
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: doesn't mean we need to compete with each other. Just kidding,
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: you're a soft asked freshman, and then she drops the
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: bench pressed bar thing on her um. So it's like, oh,
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: that was also close to being nice moment, but then
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: it's like, oh wait, well, like when you contextualize, it's like, yes,
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: like and there are so many spaces where just not
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: that many women are allowed still, and we do feel
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: like we have to compete against each other for yeah,
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: like for its time that dynamic, like, and I like
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: how it develops over the course of the movie too,
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: and you see they reach to truth and then they
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: become friends and this whole thing. But it's like it
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: sucks because it is like it is like a movie
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: troupe of just like women being against each other irrationally
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: just because like is another woman in the room. She's
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: my competition for this guy. But that's not their dynamic.
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: It's like they are in competition for the same very
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: finite thing. And I don't know, I feel like even
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: like I've felt that way before, and it makes me
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: feel bad to think about now, like being in a
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: space where you're like, Okay, there's only so many spots
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: that I will be allowed to fill, and so like
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: I'm not here to make friends, and so her attitude
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: makes it sucks because it's like it's hard to watch
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: and you're like, why can't we all just be on this?
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: But but I think that, yeah, that the characters are
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: written at first, I mean, she seems maybe a little
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: mean at first glance where she drops the barbell on Monica.
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: That was maybe not very cool, but you get you
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: get the context for it. I feel like, you know,
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: I hate that narrative period that like women have to fight.
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: I really do um and I do recognize it in
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: a lot of instances, there is this finite space that
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: we feel we need to compete for. But I think
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: that's also true too. I think that a lot of
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: what we see in the athletics of this seems like
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: why the girl's gotta be like that, But it's just
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: that's athletics. It's just that we focus on Monica in
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: this story because this story really isn't about Quincy. The
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: story is about Monica, and so that's something that's going
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: to happen. Also in the male locker room between a
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: freshman and the scene, I think that I think that
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: they probably recruit a little bit differently. You know, like
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: there's probably way more number one teams for men to go.
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: There's way more prospering teams for a male athlete to
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: go to than a female athlete. But I think you
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: get that. I think you get that same thing. No,
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: no senior wants a freshman, regardless of their gender to
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: come in and take their spot. Absolutelyeah, And I feel
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: like there's I don't watch sports movies, so I can't
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: name examples off the top of my head, but there's
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: definitely examples of like male driven sports movies where you
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: see kind of the same dynamic rookie of the year.
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: Probably I have never seen it, but but it is, Yeah,
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: that that totally makes sense what I liked about Sidre
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: or like, you know, she she is like coming in hot,
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: She's very clearly threatened by Monica's presence, and but then
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: when she loses her spot, she I almost you're like, oh,
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: the worst thing this movie could do right now is
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: like have them getting a fight or like some one
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: of those really trophy like over the top things. But
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: I really was like, I really like how that scene,
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: like the choice that part, yeah she takes, she has
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: like a ton of dignity about it, and she's clearly
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: piste off because fucking of course she is, but she
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: just is like don't let this happen to you buy
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: and and then they see each other in Spain years later.
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh, that's like classy as hell, Like
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: not a lot of people have that. And then she's
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: like and then they get dinner together and there's like
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: a little playful banter where she's like, here's my championship trophy.
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: It's here on the table um and then but like, yeah,
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: Sidre was like, are you fucking Spanish guys or what?
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: And she's like, no, you ever had sex with one person?
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: Can we can we talk about that really quick? That
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: was one thing that I was like, movie, are you
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: gonna do that? Where? Okay, so and I'm sure that
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: there's a case against this, but I feel like, okay,
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: this is this sort of lines up with prejudices of
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: that time. That's sort of like still bleed into now.
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: But like I think the movie wants us to believe
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: that Monica has only ever had sex with Quincy. That
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: is sort of the implication we're getting at every moment,
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: and you know, like we're raised from so young or
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: I remember, I think probably a lot of why this
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: romance appealed to me so much when I was little
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: as like, oh, the first boy I kiss, He's going
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: to be the one person that I'm ever with, and
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: like that is something that I think especially girls are
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: raised with. It is like you are supposed to be
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: with one person, where boys are often encouraged to, you know,
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: like get around and be promiscuous, and like they're not
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: telling me, just in terms of math, how is that possible?
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: Like if every girl is only ever with one person,
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: how are men with so many people? About women? They
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: were just like I never married my one person, Like yeah,
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: it's like you can't imagine having to marry your first
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: kiss terrifying. I would I would live in Hartford, would
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: be I would be in trouble. Okay, Anyways, this movie
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: is challenging of so many things, and that was one
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: thing that you're like, oh that it didn't really push
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: back on that kind of fantasy we're presented with as
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: kids as because it's made clear started from when he's
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: like fifteen sixteen, Quincy is like not discouraged from being
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: promiscuous and like we're not shaming him for that, but
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: it's like his mom is like whose earring is this his?
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: But it's only his mom. His dad's like this rules.
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: His friends are like this rules. Every girl at school
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: is throwing themselves at him. Gabrielle Union is sending her
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: couchie through the mail, which is my favorite line of
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: the Glunion is there. Uh and and like his like
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: promisecuity is never calling the question, which it shouldn't be.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: But I feel like the movie just I thought it
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: would have been cool if like Monica had had another
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: boyfriend or just it would have been cool too because
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: because and there's just I just always have it in
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: my head of like sometimes it's like you need this
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: is my opinion of I'm like, sometimes you need a
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: second relationship just to know if the first relationship was
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: like the right one, because otherwise you have no nothing
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: to compare it to. And then you're like I could
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: be having terrible sex forever you'd never know. So that
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: was like one thing that I'm like, I I wish
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: that Monica had been sort of allowed by the story
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: to have more of a personal life. A Spaniard boyfriend. Yeah,
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: why couldn't you have had sex with one of the
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: Spanish guys? When she was like, no, these guys aren't
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: my type, I'm like, what are you talking about? I
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: thought that it was doing two things and I'm really
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: probably gonna get to go into part for this, So
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: I thought that they were trying to point out like, yeah,
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: Monica has only ever been with Quincy, which is like,
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: if that's true, if you know, for women out there,
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: if that's the case, that's fine as well, but also
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: like it's totally fine to be fucking you know whatever.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: But I also thought that, and this may be because
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: I was around a lot of female athletes, and I
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: think that something that you fight against is a female athlete,
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: is being straight or gay, okay, And I felt like
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: with Cidrus characters specifically, they had her speak sort of
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: very cavalier in that way about her sex life in
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: Spain to sort of address like, two female athletes can
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: be together and they don't they don't have to be
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: gay women. Yeah, I think that that's I just thought
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: at that time, like, I don't think that that's something.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: I don't think that's the conversation if that, if Love
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: and Basketball was made, that they would feel the need
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: to touch on. But I think Loving Basketball came out
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: in two thousand, I don't think there was nearly as
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: much acceptance or pride or you know, what I'm saying, Like,
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: I just think that it was still pretty taboo, and
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: and at being a period piece on top of that,
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: are you're like, oh, it's the late eighties there, that's interesting.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: I hadn't even thought about that. And and Monica kind
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: of directly addresses in a, you know, not a elegant way,
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: but addresses, yeah, that assumption that she would be queer
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: or I mean, she's she like yells at her mom like, oh,
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: you think I'm a lesbian because I've always focused on
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: my game. Well that's not true. So she's kind like
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: in some ways she's addressing this stereotype. And then she's
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: also doing this no homo thing that is like eighties
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: and two recently because it's this scene where her like
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: mom's like, why why can't you dress more like a
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: girl and stuff like that, and she's like, let's go
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: on the lesbian and then her mom goes and she's like, no,
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: I'm not, but like, but yeah, I mean that that
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: almost it's I don't think it's as bad as this example,
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: but like that reminded me of a scene. And there's
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: something about Mary where uh, Cameron dial is like jokes
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: a out being bisexual as a way to be like,
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: got you, Ben Stiller, So like any time when queerness
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: is like lied about as either kind of a weapon
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: or a joke against someone else, like that's obviously not okay,
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah it was. She is kind of addressing like that
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: stereotyche talk and yeah, and she's doing it to like
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: challenge her mom, because her mom, And that reminds me
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: of of a storyline and Benditt like Beckham where the
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: Cure Nightly character's mom is like, why can't you wear
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: like lacy bras and dresses and why do you always
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: address like a boy and act like a boy, because
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: like Monica is pretty tomboyish and she embraces and she's
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: fine with that, and tomboy isn't getting those screen times.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: I know I was a tomboy growing up, and like
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: and yeah, like it's it's nice represence. And there is
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: that like kind of trophy scene in the very beginning
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: where the person that you thought was a boy takes
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: off their hat or takes off their helmet and they're
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: a girl, a girl, which does happen this movie, but
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: the way it's handled in terms of like her being like, yeah,
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: I'm a lesbian just kidding is not handled well, but
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: there is like her again just constantly pushing back against
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: like the status quo and like the stereotypes that are
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: pushed on her. So yeah, if that scene was written
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: in it would sound different, but I feel like, yeah,
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: it's it's kind of clear what she's saying, even though
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: she's saying it in a very nineteen eighty whatever way.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: I also wanted to talk about the sex scene a
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: little bit more, Yes, just in the sense that well,
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: because it's it's the love part of Love and Basketball,
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: I think it's a pretty like and we've analyzed a
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: lot of sex scenes in on this podcast, but I
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: was like, this is like one of the most realistic
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: and like kind of like responsibly done. I guess like
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: sex scenes you've ever I've seen in movies, because he
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: takes out a condom and you see you never see
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: someone take out especially it's a teenagers, Like that's such
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: an important for teenagers to see and se and like
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: the fact that we see like a high school student
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: and history you're like, you should definitely wear protection. Rent,
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: But I like that scene because it's it's from Monica's perspective,
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: which I feel like you never really get a scene,
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: especially like a virginity scene told from the woman's perspective,
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: Like it's very like it's a sexy scene, but it's
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: also focused on you can tell she's even though she
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: she's initiated it, but she's nervous and it's like she's
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: covering up her boobs. That was something that I just
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: didn't like. My research about the production um was and
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: it's like you're like two thousand Jesus Christ that the
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: director was getting a lot of pushback against, and that
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: was their argument for wanting it to be an R
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: rated movie because I guess that scene was originally even
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: a little bit longer and a little more focused on
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: her like anxiety but also her pleasure and like things
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: we'd never get to see in movies, and like she
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: had to make an argument to still get the PG
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: thirteen rating that this movie. Also the m p a
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: A Was like it's rated her and she's like right,
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: and she was pretty, and she was able to effectively
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: make the argument that it's like she was like, I
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: think you're just saying this because it's from a woman's perspective,
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: and what she did when she took a sex scene
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: from a movie I've never seen but I've heard is
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: very long called Meet Joe Black brad Pitt. It's a
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: brad Pitt movie. When did it come? Kay? So, like
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: while this movie was being probably evaluated by the m
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: P A a um, there's a scene where I guess
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: brad Pitt's character loses his virginity. It's an even like
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: in terms of what they show, it's an even raunchier
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: scene and it's told from his character's perspective. And so
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: she played those scenes but side by side, and she's like,
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: why is this movie pg? Thirteen and mine has to
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: be rated her and they had to give it to her. Gina.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: That doesn't surprise me at all, though I know yeah
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: she doesn't. Yeah, but does initiate the like the kissing.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: She does surprise kiss him, but he's receptive to it
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: whatever yea um, but yeah, she's like, Yeah, here's my
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: naked body and put your digging me. It's a great
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: sex scene. Every time I see it, I'm like, and
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: they play like that cover of the Kate Bush song
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: and you're just like, oh, this scene is the best.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: And then like there's Jamie you mentioned this when we
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: were watching it together. But um, just like kind of
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: like speaking of sex and sexuality, we see locker scenes
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: of like female athletes in this movie. Compare this movie
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: to this locker scenes like the locker room scenes and
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: carry which come from a male director, male cinematographer. It's
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: like lingering male gaze, like completely objectifying women, those ones
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: where you're like, oh, this movie is directed by a woman,
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: clearly because when you see it sometimes the way that
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: like men will direct female locker room scenes, it's just
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: like women are wearing like victorious secret fra. They're like
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: grabbing each other in this kind of soft porny kind
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: of way where it's like, no, they really are just
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: changing and having conversations, is of it. So I think
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: that that was like all the big stuff that ahead.
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: I think the only other thing is just like a
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: comment on and this is like one of those immaturity
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: things rather than because we were all very problematic when
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: we were teenagers. Um or at least you were when
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: you grew up in the nineties. But Monica like slut
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: shames a lot of like especially the girls who are
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: going after Quincy, and it's it's like, Okay, she's doing
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: that because she's probably jealous because she's secretly in love
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: with Quincy. But there's like a lot of the cheerleaders
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: are written to be very two type like this movie.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, this movie doesn't really have a vested interest
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: in challenging cheerleader stereotypes. That's what Bringing On is for.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: But um, but the cheerleaders in this movie are written
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: very like they're boy crazy. They're like blah blah blah. Yeah. Yeah,
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: I feel like it's very interesting this movie only really
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: had two types of women. You either had the really
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: like um, independent woman character in Monica, but then every
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: other woman. I mean we don't see really her team,
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: we don't see the lives of her teammates, but every
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: other woman that they focused on in the film, it's
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: pretty much like for the service of a man. Yeah, yeah, PERI.
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: And it's and that's like why it's even more like
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: I wish Monica could have had sex with someone else,
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: just because it's like I feel like her character is
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: almost because she's so independent and hard working and like
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: focused on her goals that she's her character is slightly
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: de sexualized a little bit um in a way that
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: it's I feel like in this movie isn't like a
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: bad offender of it at all, but it's just like
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: something that's picking up on like the any time there's
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: a career woman in a movie, she's de sexualized for
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: being like, you know, whereas you see fucking like Wolf
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: of Wall Street Wheld, it's like, yeah, this is a
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: very high power. Maybe not that's a bad example, but
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: like they can't stop fucking, they're addicted to fucking. I
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, I don't think she's entirely do
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: sexualized because we do see yeah, we see her sex,
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: but like the fact that she isn't permitted to like
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: explore outside of her sexual experience with Quincy is worth
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: noting for sure. Yeah, did you have any other thoughts?
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: That I could talk about this all day? Um, even
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: with the sort of problematic conversations, I think it's still
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: a movie that I'll like continuously enjoy And I think
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: I you know how, like in the fight for change,
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: sometimes you have to be extreme, and so it leaves
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: out the reality that there are women who have only
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: ever had eyes for one person, or like even when
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: I think about my own sexual history, I'm very much
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: not sexual. If I'm not in love with the with
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: the guy, you know, And but I also understand, like
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: even in love and Basketball, I feel like anything that
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: anybody picks out about it, it's all true and valid.
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: But then I'm like the other side is all true
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: and valid too, So to me, I think this is
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: a movie that like holds up pretty well sure that
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: it you know, it's twenty years old, but it's exploring
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: a lot of things that I think are ahead of
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: its time. In an ideal world, I would have liked
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: to see maybe Quincy not if he was going to
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: be so toxic at the beginning. I think we need
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: to see a more significant character arc for him where
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: he's more respectful and treats her better by the end,
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: or just him being more respectful from the start, but
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: also you know, taking into account the context of the
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: time period, and that's the whole like nature versus nurtured
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: conversation again. But um, yeah, if if there's gonna be
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: because I'm not necessarily drawn to like romance stories that much,
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: so if there is going to be a romantic storyline
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: in a movie, I have very specific guidelines that I
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: wanted to like fall within, and I just want it
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: to be if it is a hetero relationship, I want
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: the man to be really, really nice and respectful. Then
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: we're not really getting that as much as I would
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: like in this movie. Um. But at the same time,
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: I think it's ahead of its time in many ways,
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: and the fact that you do have this very strong,
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: outspoken woman who allows yourself to be angry, who challenges
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: the status quo, um, who is never like when she's
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: told girls don't play basketball, you can't be in the NBA,
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: she never listens. She's just like, fuck it, I have
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: a trajectory and I'm going to go on it. And yeah,
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: she just like I mean she yeah, Monica pushes back
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: again so much that it's like these are small gripes.
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: And it's like, also, i mean, not every strong woman
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: you meet, it it's just I mean, not everyone's pushing
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: against every single thing. That's like, there's only so much energy.
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: And and it's also, I mean, it's kind of consistently
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: communicated that she has to work so much harder to
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: have the same thing that Quincy has. That like, it
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: makes sense that she has less time to date. I
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: just yeah, I just sort of wish that Dad had
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: gone a little more acknowledged, and it felt just like
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: a little taken for granted, that was just but that
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: was just like my read of it. I'm very happy though,
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: with her happily ever After, which for me felt like
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: the w NBA game, Like, I know, happily ever After
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: it's supposed to be herwit Quincy. But I just I'm
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: just so happy that that final clip is her starting
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: playing the game and then her husband sidelines. I'm like, yeah,
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: this is how it is. She deserves it. Yeah, it's
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: just nice to see her finally get like what she
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: has deserved the whole movie. I do. I do find
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: it a little annoying that she's like, well, I don't
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: like playing basketball anymore because Quincy, You're not a part
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: of my life, and because he clearly he didn't feel
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: that way, right, He's like, I'm I have Tyra Banks.
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: I'm good. But if she hadn't showed up, he would
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: have just gotten married. But he would have been unhappy.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: He would have been He's not saying it because men
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: are freaking stupid. Where he is sitting there tortured, Yeah, yeah,
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: I mean that would have been his punishment, is that
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: he would have had to have a loveless marriage with
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: Tyra Banks. Um. Yeah, I think the main thing for
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: me is that I wish the romantic storyline would have
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: gone the love part of Love and Basketball would have
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: gone a little differently. But everything else about the movie,
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: for the most part, is pretty top notch. Yeah, and
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: we're sitting over here in like, you know, it was
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: two yes, we get it, it was two thousand. It
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: was also whatever, right, Yeah, but he could have apologized
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: every time there every time there's a scene where you know,
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: the man should be apologizing and then the woman apologizes
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: and then they kiss, You're just like, damn it. Like
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: he barely apologizes for giving her permanent scar on her face.
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: He like writes this little card that says I'm sorry,
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: But it's like, no, let's hear you say the words
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Don't get your mom to bake a cake
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: for her, like say if I was like, I mean,
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: it's like Monica's parents must secretly hate Quincy's parents for
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: just being like write a sorry note. I'm like, you're
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: you guys have so much money, Like I wonder if
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: I wonder what came first like that in the script
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: or Sinai bian cast because you know Sani scars. Actually
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: it's real. Yeah, it's yeah, so I wonder if that was.
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: But they wrote that in thing. Yeah, just like how
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: they write in Harrison Ford's scar the origin stories of
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: it in the third Indiana Jones movie. Anyway, sorry to
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: bring it up, just struggle to care about Harrison Ford. Um,
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: does this movie past the actual test? Yes, yes, yeah,
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: I think it does. There's a lot of dialogue. Yeah,
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: there's two sentences. There's at least two sentences they're about
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: with like Monica and her teammates. It passes if you
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: different coach, her coach or sister. Yeah, there's a lot.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: I mean it's it is Monica's story, like and you
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: get to see Yeah, so she interacts with a lot
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 1: of women. She interacts with a lot of women. Yea.
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: As far as nipple scale, okay, so our our nipple
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: scale zero to five nipples based on its representation of women,
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: I would give this, I want to say, like a
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: three point seven five. I think again, I still take
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: issue with some of the aspects of the romance part
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: of the story. And then like, yeah, the thing where
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: it's like she says she's allowed to being as a
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: joke to like as a shock kind of thing for
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: her mom. Different little things like that. But overall, like
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: I said, I think it's ahead of its time. I
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: think the fact that it's an almost entire hardly black
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: cast is something we hardly ever get to see. And
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: I think it handles a lot of things really well
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: and and like a really nuanced way where even though
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: like some characters are toxic and some characters have some
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: like problematic points of view, there's you know, it's contextualized,
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: and it's because that's how people are, Like, we're no one,
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: no one's perfect. We're all sometimes we say stupid ship
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: and sometimes we do stupid ship constantly. We're total funk
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: ups um. But yeah, I think it's just like a
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: very nuanced, realistic examination of life and love and basketball. Yeah,
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: I'll go three point seven and five two. I just
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, I agree with everything you said. There's like
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: a little bit about the romance that you're like, oh,
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: there's a little more to explore there. I am left
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: a little bit, like on the rewatch underwhelmed that they
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: end up together at the end, because, like we've sort
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: of been talking about, Quincy never really had to do
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: the work to earn her forgiveness. Um, the story kind
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 1: of makes it seem like he can do basketball without her,
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: but she somehow is completely empty without him. Just the president,
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: it says, is like, you know, sure end up together,
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: but demonstrates some improvement. You know, it's like the fact
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: that it was like she was going to give up
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: her career. On top of she forgets, she like apologizes
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: to him for something she doesn't know him an apology for.
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: On top of we don't see him do any of
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: the work before they end up together. It's just like
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: it's just like a few things too many, especially because
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: he spends so much time not treating her very well
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: and right, just like negging her and just like not
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: and then like the whole thing where he tries to
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: teach her a lesson by basically cheating on her because
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: she wasn't there for him one time, and we know
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: that that's not good, but we just don't see that
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: he's grown, but we don't see that he's grown past
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: that behavior. So in that way, I'm like, I'm willing
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: to cut this movie slack in some places for the
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: many many things that does right, But the relationship just
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: like rings a little hollow to me on the rewatch,
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: it feels it's just for me. It's too toxic of
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: a romantic relationship for me to want to root for ultimately.
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: But another huge thing about this movie is there's a
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: lot of representation behind the camera to which you never
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: ever ever see even now, Like if you have a
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: predominantly black cast, oftentimes a lot of people behind the
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: still a straight white man is still just a list
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: of white guys and maybe a white lady if you're lucky,
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: Like it's it's very rare. And and just after doing
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: a little research about Gina Prince Bythewood, she's been like
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: this incredible advocate for having women behind the scenes, for
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: having people of color behind the scenes, and she's just
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: been like a real force for getting people work who
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: should be working and having influence in the industry. This
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: movie was also edited by woman was You're Very very Lazy. Um, So,
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: just on top of the fact that it is written
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: and directed by a black woman's a black woman's story,
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: it's also there was some bullshit that when the year
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: this came out, where there was another movie called Girl Fight,
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: just Karen Kusama's first movie, and this movie like just
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: because it was about women of color who were athletes.
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: Everyone was like they're the same movie, which is like, okay,
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 1: two thousand, Um Girlfriend is really good that we should
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: cover it sometime because it's actually seen. It's interesting. I
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 1: love Karen Kusama in any case. Yeah, there's like there's
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: a lot of going on that's great in front of
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 1: the camera and behind it. Sore seven five from me, Um,
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: I would say, I'd say I would give it maybe
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: four nipples. I feel like they did. I mean, there
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: are some things that are problematic, just like you know,
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 1: I mean even when we talk about Gabrielle Union, yes character,
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: it's like she was kind of go get her to
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: do we like what she was going to get? Maybe not,
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: but she was, you know, And I feel like I
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: feel like sometimes women, when we tell stories about other women,
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: sometimes we pass the judgment on quote unquote promiscuity or
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: sexual liberation. You know that, Like Gabrielle Union's character is
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: just the opposite version of Monica. But she doesn't want
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 1: she wants love more than basketball. Yeah you know, but
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: and that's the thing, like that character gets shamed a
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: lot exactly. She's just trying to get dick. Yeah, she
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 1: doesn't like get the vote. This is like she doesn't
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: really get the opportunity to like make a case for
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: herself or just be like or push back or anything. Yeah. Yeah,
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: like we don't even we don't get the full person.
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: We don't know who she is outside of this sexual
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: experience that she's trying to have with Quincy, which is
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: like a little bit unfair. But there's also not enough
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: time in the movie for it. Where's the sequel? I
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: don't want to see that, So I'll give it. I'll
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: give it for nipples. There's a lot of things that
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 1: I watch and listen to now that I saw years ago,
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, how in the hell? Yeah, and loving basketball,
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: I still enjoy it, appreciate it, um, really appreciate certain aspects,
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: like the sex scenes. You know, I felt like they
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: were tasteful. I felt like they were from her perspective. Um, yeah,
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: I'd give it for Yeah. I don't know. I just
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: feel there's a part of me that doesn't excuse Quincy,
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: but I do feel some sort of sympathy for him,
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: and I feel like his life would have been miserable
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: without Monica. Yeah, she makes everything better, And it's like
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: I just like, hold on to that last scene. I'm
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: like he's doing some work on the back end to
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: make up for all those times because and like being
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: with Monica now he doesn't mess up two women's lives
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: because he would have messed up Tyrabans his life. Really
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: that is Yeah, that basketball game at the end is
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: when she plays for his heart is the best thing
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: that ever happened to tire Banks. Right, she doesn't even
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: know it yet. Yeah, exactly. Well's name. Thank you so
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 1: much for thanks, This was so much fun. Where can
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: people follow you online? Check out your stuff? Um on
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: social media and every single platform is a AP Johnson
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 1: z A I N A B Johnson. My website is
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: ZAP Johnson. You guys can go to social media on
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: my website and see where I'm performing, or just be
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 1: my friend, UM, my online friend. I'm not one of
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: those people that thinks social media is my real friends.
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: I Also, I have a podcast. It's called Honesty with Z.
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: Honesty is spelled h O n E s t e
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: a UM with Z and it's you can find it
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: anywhere you get podcasts. Yeah, yeah, thanks for having me,
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 1: Thank you for being here. You can follow us all
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: the normal places mostly Twitter, Instagram. Don't send us a
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: message on Facebook. We'ven for checks. Sorry. You can sign
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 1: up for the Patreon Patreon dot com slash by tel
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: Cast uh five dollars a month, Gate YouTube extra ampasones.
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 1: We've emerged on t public dot com slash the bytel
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 1: Cast and you know this, this basketball season, I have
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: some love to love, love and basketball. There's room for
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: a boat. I can't top that. Thank you, Bye bye